this open meeting of the senior center committee is being conducted in person and Via Zoom speakers on the agenda may be participating remotely and the chair may allow the public to provide comments after the agenda is completed if a member of the public wishes to speak in the meeting room or on your computer and when called upon please state your name for the meeting minutes the senior Senate committee would welcome public comments and if there is further action that is re IR ired by the committee the clerk will add the add the matter as appropriate to the forthcoming agenda depending upon the comment the committee May if they are available if they are able within the confines of the open meeting law respond respond with information as opposed to needing to deliberate on the matter please note that while an option for remote attendance and our participation is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting will not be suspended are terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast to the individual attendees unless otherwise required by law accordingly Please be aware that other folks may be able to see you so please take care not to screen share your computer anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording the end so we've got that out way tonight's agenda uh um doesn't have an awful lot of parts to it but first one we've called the order first item that's of any importance here at the moment is acceptance of Prior meeting minutes um have all the members received the PRI meeting minute you should have received twice uh whether there any questions [Music] exceptions things that anybody could not live with the minut generally speaking have been pretty goodly um I had sent you a note Jerry you did um on the second page the very last sentence we should point out the tax burden for a debt override of 200 to 300 would only be about $3 a cost of a cup of coffee um I suggested that that be amended or in part removed uh Deb correctly said 35 I said three and it turns out Deb was right and Josh after the meeting so it isn't appropriate to the the minutes s out a piece of information about what it would be I would basically I I centor the language basically would be about $35 and I would delete the cost of a cup of coffee at the end it's kind of an editorial comment that I don't think has a great deal of value so I would move we amend the minutes to read we should point out that's tax burden for our debt override we only etc etc only be about $35 period I would second anybody have a did I was actually at the last meeting yes it has me listed as abent oh really whoops yeah yeah I was quiet but I was there I saw your face that's the reason add that so if we add that and we also add the edit that uh Jack just went over regarding the financial impact for the taxpayer uh being more than a coffee and also change the three to 35 right right right 35 yep uh is that okay by everybody here any other comments that makes sense could I have a motion to accept the meeting minutes from the ju I don't have in front of July 11th July 11th July 11 as amended as amended so move second right right a roll call all in favor Mary you raise your hand I didn't see sorry right here Mark yes Jack yes maryan yes de yes I'm a yes J yes Amy yes Stephanie yes and that's it for voting members unanimous perfect thank you uh next issue is item three on the agenda working group reports um as I think everybody knows all the working groups AR always busy all the time uh generating new materials for presentation but we do have some facts to uh to update people on tonight uh the first one the RFI request for information uh looking for lease space um was it was publicized I think July 9th again I don't have the the date in front of me but it went out a couple weeks ago um we received a response pretty quickly from mained Crossing and this afternoon we we also received a response and I have to say it's an unofficial response from Mill and May and it I I state that it's unofficial because Greg brought to my attention this afternoon that since they sent it via email to me and did not respond officially to the town website the RF which they are doing but they hadn't they sent it to me so that we would have it to discuss at tonight's meeting so it's unofficial but it is the proposal uh so we're going to talk a little bit about uh um that second one last meeting we talked a bit about the proposal that we received from Main Crossing tonight we'll spend a few minutes and talk about uh the numbers and the impact and the building uh at uh Mill and M um I think Jack may be able to address the numbers a little bit on the uh Mill and Main proposal that come in today maybe um there there's a piece of the main and Crossing one that I suggest we I mean excuse me um there is and I think everybody excuse me has seen at the draft of an override article for fall town meeting and so forth and it had just XX z00 and at the time we got the main cross one there was the $35 per square $32 25 plus 7 plus the $35 allowance for fit up but what was what we've been trying to do and I think it's since the last meeting is try to actually come up with some set of numbers that would represent what the buildout cost would be um and it's only a data point but I tried to contact the jbj construction who is the construction arm of the people who run made Crossing um I did it in two ways one I I got the number and I called the guy twice his voicemail box was called for that never got anywhere but on their website there is a place to go in and ask for a quote so I went in and fill that out I've heard nothing from them but separately um both Jerry and I went off looking in terms of what does build out typically fast in a raw space and what we have is raw space um turns out that uh I talked to an architect that I know that had actually worked on a project there and he broke things down and Jerry sort of independently went often did an online kind of thing and what I found fascinating was the buildout cost over and above the $35 allowance probably looks like 70 to7 75 per square foot bigone so if we and and I used a model of 6,000 square foot so we're looking at potentially buildout cost of $420,000 over and above their allowance 216 or you know whatever the thing was um at some point we need to factor that into what we're doing because while it's that that's a one-time cost and what we've been focusing on is an override article that becomes a permanent thing which covers the leasing costs so it's just a data point that buildout costs are going to be a significant part of the conversation how we get funded uh so forth and so on and that is is relevant to the second part of it which is the uh Mill and Main um kind of stuff um background because I always give you more detail than you want oh no go gol far yeah doing a good job the mill now has a new title holder oh yes uh it is now the lead partner for lack of a better thing is Granite Point management trust a new york-based publicly traded Real Estate Investment Trust and at the last meeting Jerry commented that when we the senior senate committee through Jerry had made the request to Mill and Main there was some well you know we're working on things and so forth and so on so that's apparently what was going on in the background so uh and it turns out Granite Point people have actually been involved in financing the mill for about six years with some of the other people but anyway um they're in place the town knows about it pretty much the word's beginning to get out but really nothing much is going to change at any particular rate because there's a whole bunch of issues and got to figure out so forth and so on but as part of the conversations the Lincoln property people and let me back up here because I have found confusion as I talk to people in terms of oh wait a minute who really owns the mail the financial people own the mail but there are some people who think the Lincoln Properties is the owner if you go to the website well it's Lincoln Properties y y yada Lincoln Properties has two roles one they are the on-site manager so they manage the facility second part is they're also the leasing agent or the marketing agent for the property but they they are not the owners the actual owner actually shows up on the thing you got today from Millan M which is uh gpmm LLC is is the um now the actual owner um somewhere in my pile of papers there is a copy of the offer that has been received so Millan m is proposing to offer for lease the pay Master building which is also building nine and if you're not familiar with it as you're standing in front of the post office look diagonally across to the two Granite pillars which go into the parking lot that's building nine there are orange awnings which say mained Medical Center or something like that Dr fucci has her office in there and has had it in there for a very long time but the so there some points of things we need to have some confusion cleared up because um the offer from Millan Maine says the whole building is yours ago that she was moving out one these because she is she's actually part of erson practice y so she's going to be moving into one of their conss okay um that that may be the answer that we're looking for and a sideways data point Emerson is putting positions upstairs in the old Wallgreens building so she may be moving there but anyway so the building nine 7400 sare F feet the entire facility is apparently going to be available it also represents an opportunity my words for the town because for the last 10 plus years the main and Historical Society has occupied th the entire second floor Pro Bona and there there's no commitment to them or anything else but um the offer is begins at uh 1650 a square foot plus a175 per month per square foot for electricity goes up by 50 Cents a year it's say fiveyear five month offer with a couple of one-year extensions that's a fairly aggressive price uh they're very careful to say that if it goes into the option years it's fair market whatever that might be and the first five months is free you still PID for electricity and there may be some other little nuances in there that we discovered with some of the previous offers that you know we need to be really careful that we're covering uh those kinds of costs um it does give us the some of the information we need in terms of being able to put an override article together put in the least costs if you want I went back to the spreadsheet that Greg Johnson did from the July 2021 offer um I use that as a basis I've done a fiveyear thing reflecting that with lots of notes about you know wait a minute check on this check on that so forth and so on um we are back in the cents for the pay Master building building nine as we are with the main and Crossing one the building is not ADA Compliant it does have a handicap rant coming up to the doctor's office so you can get in there the parking garage with its elevators is available so it has parking does have a handicapped access but only to the first floor there's no elevator there's no air conditioning on the second floor there's no ceiling on the second floor uh and the right hand side which is where the I think the old original Vault almost a beehive kind of Vault is still there and the right hand side of that building has not been used in as many decades as I can remember so I have no idea what condition it is my my purpose in going through that is if it's an acceptable solution for an interim Senior Center what are the fit up costs renovation costs whatever you want to call it how do we come up with that number and it still becomes a one-time thing that sort of really doesn't fit the purpose of what we're trying to do with the overall so there you know some action items yeah there um I think that's the end of my bucket DP if anybody wants a copy of the sheet sorry for the online folks but um and and one thing that was jumped out at me on that is that they will cover the G as part of polias cover what they'll cover Conant the age as as part of the leas in m m um given there is none on the second floor that's going to be interesting well um so it' be for the first floor anyway then the long term we'd have to figure out what we do with the first right Jerry yeah there's no um there's no heat upstairs either and there's minimal lighting and there's no ceiling in that raw half of the building it's just framed um it's it's in very rough shape all right so we we've got to get over to take a look at it and to Jack's Point uh we need to figure out uh what the fit up cost are going to be now so this building has more in it than what we saw at Main en Crossing Main en Crossing is an absolute Bare Bones new construction no floors no walls no cealing no Plumbing nothing zero this has something how much of the something that's going to be usable to us going forward I don't know yet we need to figure that out my guest M anybody who's online or in here can certainly add to it I would I guess I would guesstimate that the fit up cost for the mill and Main Building would be lower than what main acrossing would be but I don't know that because main Crossing is about 6,000 and Mill and Main is 7,400 square feet so right maybe less but it's bigger and if we're going to fit up the entire second floor I don't know I don't know and does it um mained Crossing have the heat already in there no nothing nothing empty box empty box no there isn't anything you get if you get a space that someone has already done then you inherit the money they have put into it okay um if you're walking into brand new space it's yeah yeah so that that's a tough one there Bill and Maine should be less bathro they have that bom office right yeah um yeah for the benefit for the folks that are online The Proposal does layout of both the first and second floors um the second floor and even part of the first floor has some fairly large room kinds of areas I do know there's men's room and a ladies room on the second floor um there would certainly be a bathroom in the doctor's area I don't know whether there are any others over on the right hand side of the building as you said but there are offices partitions Windows external Windows as Peg pointed out the second floor Nei heat or air conditioning no ceiling it's just kind of raw but basically it's a structurally sound thing that's in halfway reasonable shape but it has a floor the first floor certainly has Plumbing second floor may not have Plumbing no the second floor there's there's a men's and women's on the second floor so and there is from the second floor an external staircase that of a fire escape oh fire escape you could get out y off the second floor okay interesting well I mean it's certainly we we needed at least two data points it' be nice to have three right but there aren't that many places around town the small town aren't that many places that got 5 6 7,000 square ft you know so we haven't heard from anyone no okay officially or unofficially I have not unofficially heard nor has Greg heard officially Greg only has one correct which is made a Crossing he's waiting waiting the second one to come in probably by tomorrow and my recollection has the official due date when they aref post a yeah yeah so they'll they'll get so I I'm sort of not expecting others I that nobody sent me a note and hey we're working on it I've heard none of that so we haven't heard anything from Mr Anderson we have not okay we have not and I chased Mary brandley again with another text because she was because I don't know him and she was going to bug him but okay I would have assumed that he would have even through the rumor Bill Bill been somewhat aware he knows the senior center committee exists right he know because Mary is talking about it he knows we're looking the space if there was any interest I think he would have stepped up okay so I'm guessing we may have two choices and that could be it and they're not bad just one work well they both need work one will be extremely expensive the hard thing to to back point on the fit up cost of 400 and some odd, um we're going in and fitting up a Bare Bones facility that we're not going to live in for the next hundred years living there for you know some number of years you almost want to think you put that money towards something that's going to be ours I I don't know it's just a thought that goes to my mind right but uh one of the dis Point Jerry mostly for the benefit of the folks that are uh on Zoom the just some data points the first five months at Mill and B are free but then the rent plus electric and I'll just read the numbers 135 something 1387 14245 146 and then 149 850 would be the annual 12 Monon period uh rental things and I really want to point out in that that uh I used the thing that Greg did and there are some estimates that need we need to make sure are included Insurance Comcast maybe drive te their support thing uh there supplies custodian etc etc yeah so there's there's a bunch of Det things that need to be included in that or added right and they need to be included in either location or any location correct yeah and they did call out the taxes and operating expenses separately so that yeah y y see oh thank you I don't know who had their F hand up first uh J Josh Josh had his hand up first Linda was second and then I'm third okay Josh go for all right I'll be quick um so I have I haven't seen Mill and Main so I don't know the extent of the work that would be necessary I have seen mayard Crossing um it is a complete blanks slate the one thing I would I would caution um Jack I don't I don't know I I totally trust you on the on finding that data about the $75 a square foot but what I don't know is whether or not because it would be Town funds going into it whether or not it would be subject to prevailing wage laws and public bid public construction laws um if that's the case it would be significantly more expensive and the reason why I raised that is that if if it becomes clear that mayor Crossing requires more investment than Mill and Main then that's just going to be exacerbated if public bid and prevailing wage laws are applied further tipping the scale towards Mill and Main Josh let me ask you the question if the town hired for example jbj construction is the construction arm of the main Crossing people if the town hired them does that invoke the prevailing wage laws or not it's it's a gray area Jack there was a there's been a few rulings over the last five or six years um specifically around state universities that have done things like this um and they the state has been tightening up uh the laws because agencies State agencies and communities have been trying to kind of circumvent them I the thing that makes me think that it may not be um applicable in this case is that we would not have a tangible asset at the end so those Investments are are are sunk costs on our end we're not walking away with anything so I think a case could be made that it would not be subject to prevailing wage and public bid but I just wanted to raise it as as a question because I genuinely don't know okay and who was the next one was it Linda or Linda okay Linda go um something that you said Jack is that sort of set off alarm Bells was Mill and Main is not ADA Compliant and and um no elevator and so if we get 7,400 feet my questions would be can we get less if the first floor is ADA Compliant we can't because an elevator would be that's a big expense right I I don't know how much hundreds of thousands um but can you get less space or how a how Ada non-compliant is it is the first floor can you I I don't know what the area but we have to um I mean an elevator is a budget Buster um yeah yeah there's a bunch of unknowns and one of the potential conversations we can have is we don't want a whole 7400 so you know that kind of thing I'm going to go off into a detail that maybe Amy knows uh yes putting in a fullscale elevator would be a very large expense but there's also the things that you can get in the home which is basically a vertical lift that I've seen advertised which would be would fit in that building very nicely but I'm not sure that would be ADA Compliant and you know meet whatever requirements you know that what up yeah it might not because it's public ver you know it's a public Space versus you know what you put in your hole and wouldn't meet ADA compliance well I but it's fairly straightforward two holes you put the shafts in and it's fairly inexpensive to do you could get that done next weekend would you help me I would can answer that if you'd like please okay so the uh the vertical lifts are not there was a time not too long ago where they were compliant um but now you need a variance from maab the Massachusetts architectural access board to install those vertical lifts um and cost avoidance is the number one reason that they reject those variances so um it's not likely that they would uh they'd sign on to that same thing with chair lifts they're really trying to get away from those I what I would say though is that um a variance for uh how we use that second floor may very well be granted so uh if you were to go to maab and say um you know this is a uh temporary solution the second floor is going to be used for um admin offices storage backup house custodial spaces you know basically everything where there's not Public Access that would be a slam dunk you might even be able to convince them um that you're going to use the second floor for more active programming where people who uh maybe are a little more um uh mobile um would would be able to use that space uh they might they might Grant a variance for a a temporary condition so just just some other things to think about okay that's interesting thank you Josh that was that was a good update uh Amy um I've probably lost track in all the discussions with the visitation groups what space specifically um is being looked at up at mayard Crossing what is it next to is it next what what other business is it next to the potential space uh Amy are you familiar with the the buildings up there yeah more or less yeah just if you give me a is it next to Middle sex savings is it next to jimy is it next to Kung Fu no no um if you go in on The Middle on the right hand side where break path is uhhuh it's the back corner diagonally opposite right path it's buildings in in their nomenclature it's 1320 and 1322 right great thank you Jack it's a nice location it's a great space it's just very to sket very difficult any other comments on that on on the GU in the space I think we sort of talked the space issue a bit anybody in this room have another any more comments on the space not until I see it well that's it I mean there's there's more unknown than they unknown we just know physically the building is there beyond that I think Jack is our historian well the the other thing that um it's not our responsibility but the issue of the historical society which is a private separate organization it's the man of historical society but it's independent of the town right and for a long long time they occupied a building a building a room downstairs here until it flooded at which point they got off into the mail and I don't know whether there's an opportunity they're not paying anything for it but could they share a part of it and Senior Center and there needs to be some conversation with the Historical Society absolutely so I guess the first question does the Historical Society have any money last I knew about $27,000 well that'll help us no I just I'm just want if they you know just a you know a fee a nominal fee even uh just to help offset something if they were to stay there and and take a portion of the second floor uh as we've seen in other centers as we've gone around uh you know Veterans Affairs have been in certain ones actually historical society was in with Millis and Millis was Historical Society hisorical yes so you're right jack so so having that building be the senior center yeah that's the dominant occup uh occupant but there could be one or two or three other you know smaller occupants that may or may not offer any Revenue don't no but you're right but it's a nice location it's a nice central location you know it's walking it's it's right downtown it would be nice in many ways well I mean again again that they literally mentioned in their offer it's level there's parking there's access to the garage G with its elevator so you can park all those things so um it avoids some of the concerns with some of the other kinds of places agreed um next item on the agender is a senior center visits update um I don't want to necessarily pige hole anybody into doing anything but Mar we have Mar name down Mary would you be able to just give a just a brief comment as to where we are where we went this week um a group from the group vised The Mayor Senior Center and documented with photograph that we've done in all the other senior centers and we're in the process of pulling it all together so we can have a visual um record of each country we visited and compare it with what we currently have then we need to build perfect and and and that need so that so that pictoral view like you know a picture is worth a thousand words is I think going to be extremely helpful for people who haven't been to whether they're on this committee or just you know residents and they want to see what does Millis look like what does m look like what does Littleton look like and again it's not that one's better than the other one's different than the other and there good and there was things in some of those sites that we like there was things that don't really apply to us that much right but it was a learning process and we needed to do that so thank you that was that was good quick update um so we will get all that hopefully in the next few weeks on on the the Senor Center website so that people can actually look at it they they can't get there now none matter able so hopefully we can get that done um the the next item is the senior center financing update um and again I'm gonna I'm GNA lean back on Jack for a minute Jack has been the uh person who has done all the drafts of uh the verbage the process for getting ready to go to h meeting uh to apply for not Capital but operating money um and right now I don't know that there's a lot we can update on the financial aspect because we now have a new player from what we had before but we've got to sort of figure out in the next week or so what monies do we need to apply for am I right am I uh yeah you're right yeah thank you well that was quick unusual Jack the again data points that aren't specific to the money the I've already made the point of with with the two data points we can at least uh look at an override article that addresses the leasing cost yeah um and and let me just spend a second there because I think everybody knows by now but if there is an override article and it passes then the let's just say it's 200,000 for purposes of our conversation once that passes it automatically raises the town's Levy limit which means the $200,000 is there every succeeding year right now I have sent and those of you who looked at the draft warrant article that I did was circulated at the last meeting there were a couple of language things in there that I was trying to do it said four purposes of fund I don't remember exactly what they are um one was to be expended under the direction of the Council on Aging or an alternate to fund the COA budget line in the town budget and what I did was send that to Greg and he understands the problem that basically is there a way in a warrant article to write the language that binds future spending or spending in the out years to the COA because otherwise it goes into the general budget and we're sort of dependent on lobbying and the fact that there's a contract in place so forth and so on Greg's response was he would check with Town Council I have not yet had a response but he's at least looking at that and the sense of is there a way to write the warrant article that does that the answer may be no so it's just a point of information um the other point that we've already discussed here tonight is the distinction that we need to make between an override article to fund releases and and the fit up sorry buildout fit out kinds of costs which are going to be a big chunk of money and we need to have conversations with pcom or whomever in terms of what's the best way to perhaps go at that third data point is um I think everybody is aware that on July 30th there is the next meeting of what's now become the quad board thenc com Capcom School Comm committee and select board um the senior center committee representative has been invited so that we will be at the table but there's we're not officially one of the boards that you know gets to be part of the presentation or discussion but I suspect given the conversations at uh select board meetings and so forth there clearly will be a discussion of where does the senior center the interim Senior Center uh funding and monies stand in terms of well where are we which is the data points we need and where are we in the priority of any other set of expenditures whatever those might be and there's a fairly long list um and the other thing which again everybody knows but I'll reiterate is there is a pretty much hard deadline for August 6th the the warrant articles could be fiddled a bit in terms of timing but the override if that's what we go forward with becomes a ballot question for the November 5th ballot so the August 6th date is a hard stop in terms of being able to get something on the ballot which gets us into the conversation because I I talked to one of the select board members and he he understands the the things we're going through here and I sort of Flo well how about letting us go forward and we can withdraw the article if you know we weren't ready by Tom meeting that's a workable thing except you can't very well withdraw something from the ball right so we really do need to do a bunch of work as best we can between now and August 6 in order to come to some final understanding of whether we're going to be have a war article in Fall Time end my comments well i' I've got a question on on what we just talked about too we know the lease is an operational expense it's an annual issue with a you know small number increase um what about the fit up the fit up is that uh and Linda you might have an answer on this one is it operational or is it capital I to me it's cap to me it's capital a capital expense and I'm wondering um as we went to different senior centers to the extent that we might find funding for fit up some other place ex you know a lot of the senior centers talked about grants and donations for furniture and other fit up costs um it's a it's a very tyght timeline um or are there any reserves that we could draw on I mean we talked it sounds like um mayard Crossing might be what do we talk about that was 6,000 square feet times I'm trying to think what was it um $75 a square foot was that it yes five so that's 350,000 roughly um I'm not sure about Mill and Main depending on elevator plus or minus it could be around the same amount of money are there any Capital you know reserves that we could draw from from um or do we have to go for a debt exclusion override I my understanding is debt they don't want to they don't we don't normally do debt exclusions for if it's 350 I mean it's like one or two million sort of as a threshold um that maybe we could look at some of the reserve fundings we have Reserve funding we have for the fit out or find some other ones we might ask that at the quad board um to say is there any way to fund the fit out except for a debt a debt exclusion override um and I I'm not sure about Millan I'm sorry yeah Mill and me so a square foot is around right is around 350 is Mill and Main going to be more um like 150 and you know I know fincom we have some we have a pot of money there's also cap you know there's a reserve fund there's lots of Reserve funds around town maybe we could draw from them or or propose some other kind of fundraising um for the fit out but so I guess my dilemma about it is these are all good discussions but to Jack's point we get August 6 you know how how soon do we really know some of those answers I I don't know I honestly I don't have that answer uh I guess we'll find out next week it's quad board meeting I think Amy Amy did you have your hand up I thought you did I'm not sure how to articulate what's in my head which is common so I'm just wondering Linda about expenditures such as Can it can be even be considered a capital expense because it's not something we're going to own you know the a capital expense for something that's leased I know that something came up with a my understanding is Amy that the lease will be an operating expense that we want to go for an oper yeah but the fit out I'm sorry I said that wrong is can can fit outs on a property that we don't own it's it's can that be considered even a capital expense because it's something that we don't even own yeah we' have we'd have that's a great Point Amy because part of it is I know when I when we work with the capital planning committee they have sort of a certain threshold of 25,000 has expected life expected life so many years um and so would have to look at um what what what the components are you know for between furnishings and other supplies I think it's about what things that we own like the furniture furniture and things like that we would own so that you know those being cap things that we own but then the the building that we don't own that I don't know how that money is going to be able to be moved around yeah there's there's nothing that would preclude the use of free cash aside from local policy but where we where it would be a non-starter is we Bond Council would never sign off on issuing a bond for property that we're not going to see the full value of like if it you know if something has a 10-y year lifespan and we're only going to get five years out of it um that would be a problem and in this case it would be even more complicated because the fit out cost would be investing into a building that we don't own and are not going to own on the other end so I can't see how Bond Council would would sign off on that but again if and this is a big if but if there was uh will on the town side and if the capital planning committee supported it and if the finance committee supported it um and if it Rose above the other millions of needs um on the list I I don't think and Linda feel free to jump in I don't think there's anything that legally would preclude the use of free cash for for fit up yeah and the timing might be great Josh because free cash we would vote I believe at the Springtown meeting and that's sort of about what we're looking at right that say that that would be a one-time expenditure um or maybe drawing from some other reserves that the town has for the fit for the fit out um and looking at other possible parts of funds um you know if we have 27,000 from or some amount from the Historical Society or friends of meor seniors um you know we might be able to call together something and again it's not certain to me at if we went with Mill and Main it looks like it's going to be somewhere close to 350 but with an elevator could be a lot a lot of money so we need to kind of estimate what we think we're going to need for the fit out yeah and we need to be careful of the language in terms of a build out fit out fit out so forth and um and I want put you on a spot Maryanne but fundraising by the designated charity which is Friends of manood is another opportunity the other thing to keep in mind is we have an offer letter from actually both parties but one of the things I was thinking about that says the, 1650 per rentable square foot setting aside electricity for a moment is actually a fairly aggressive price and it would be interesting to have the con ation and a 30 sorry $15 per square foot allowance if you do some simple math and say instead of 1650 make it 1950 or 20 you could then ask them to double the allowance so now you're up to 225 250,000 they would get the money it's just they get it over five years at the increased rate and we could play with that kind of thing which would for us put more of the money back into the leasing stream which would be appropriate but again that's a conversation we need to have in terms of quote unquote negotiating for all we know we could go back to M Millan main people and say hey 10 bucks a square foot or you know whatever kind of so what we really need is find a really sharp negotiator I I think we have one in this room already you're doing a great job so far Jack you I don't have an experience with that kind of stuff okay well we we we'll we'll figure it out but I I guess so part of but I guess is trying to figure out you know Capital versus operational monies and you know so so from a least standpoint we we can at least figure out what we need there the rest if we can figure out about how much is needed let's say it's another $250,000 of let's say capital or improvements um where that what part that comes out of we don't need to know that today we just need to have an estimate in my mind of about what do we think we need right my right well yes but we also need to ask ourselves the question do we need to assuming that the mid and main thing was worthable do we need to do the whole building at once yeah that that building has been divided for so long that if we did this part I mean the heat that they have comes off their Central stock there's not a separate heater in there so there's going to be heat but if we did this part of the building this year that part of the building next year is that work I I don't know well there's a there's a level of complexity in these conversations that we need you know make our list and for the senior center committee as a whole um it's a future but if in fact we get past the first hurle and we come to a conclusion that yes we will have a warrant article in the fall then we really need to begin focusing on fundraising all the other kinds of things in that interim period because that becomes part of a message to the town at the fall it says okay hey etc etc so there's a bunch of activities for us you know pass this right get through that first yeah over that first there a long a long way to go exactly oh go Josh am I don't know who had the hand up first Amy did okay I just I just I had a quick thought um is it possible for the the the visitation the working group that does the visitation that's uh done all the other visits other senior centers including the mayard senior center is it possible at all for them just to be able to go into this space um with their Keen eyes to take a look and report back to us say we're doing all these we're doing all these pieces at once I'm just wondering what that would be because we're hypothesizing about what it looks like in there and could that working group talk to Lincoln property get a little visit a little walkth through well it's a very interesting question and the offer has already been made I I asked Noah main today and they come back to me right away um we can do 10:00 it's Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday the 31st Wednesday the 31st 10 o' in the morning what I'm trying to do and and you're 100% right and you've got to get a few people in so there's been a working group on real estate on on on whether we lease or whatever we do there's a working group on uh Senior Center visitations so I've already sent out a question to the senior working group that's been handling uh space lease I have not sent it to the working group that was handling uh the senior senat tours yet I will what we I want to be cautious of I don't want to show up next Wednesday morning with 12 or 13 people yeah that's why I as offic because that would be we we I would think we can't show up with a huge group of people to an existing well the other thing too is I I'd rather not have to advertise it as a as a than as a public meeting too we get over the Forum then um bad two comments I think that's great I think just anyone getting in there anyone on this committee if it's just two or three people that's fantastic to get in there great yeah we're trying we're trying to limit it and you're 100% right I let Jack speak but we do want to get to see because some of it were going on you know what what Jack is seeing and maybe what a few others have seen over the years we need to go in and take a fresh look go ahead Jack uh two comments one the doctor's office is isolated um if you if you go in the middle door there's a door to get in from from the inside and then the handicap ramp goes into directly into her office on the outside so you could run a whole bunch of people in there get the whole second floor and the whole right half of the building okay without disturbing the doctor's office in any way okay and personal thought given some we're up against some deadlines I would come down in favor of send it to the whole committee and if we need to post it as a public meeting that I that that would be my suggestion but it's up to you yeah I mean I I have no problem with that I just you know it just adds another another step I had to post it Monday morning go um and because it's on a Wednesday that's when the Historical Society they're open from 9 to 11 every Wednesday so the second floor is going to be open anyway oh okay good good we can start negotiating with them perfect see how much money they have all right so we we'll do that I'll I'll open to the committee and I'll post it because there's a high probability we're gonna have a qu all right Natasha uh one before being born Jo had has end up his is getting so no that's quite right actually Peg why don't you go ahead because I might pivot us a bit so okay I was just going to mention that there have been complaints from the doctor's office staff about three uh Historic Society people walking back and forth upstairs there's no insulation no sound insulation and so it's been a disturbance um that's not U even a c maybe a fitness class or a lot of activity with people running back and forth upstairs so that could be an issue um as a as a courtesy through Mill and Main we should probably tell them so that they can tell the doctor's office if there's going to be a tour thing and my my other quick concern is the amount of square footage in the lobby both upstairs and down that we'd be paying for that's pretty much useless space and it's considerable I think yeah I I don't know all right point point well taken um I'm going Natasha you got a point go for hi um I just want to I just on the topic of um posting there is an exemption I just wanted to for open meeting law if you're doing an inspection so if you know if there is more than a quum that would be going to inspect a site um you may not have to post for that I just wanted to to mention that so if that was a a big concern um there are certain um guard rails I guess if you're talking about negotiation then that might then you know allow that but if you're just doing an inspection and you have a quorum um the school committee has done that when we've interviewed superintendents we've gone on site and we we don't have to post when we're we're doing that even if we're a quorum so I just wanted to raise that if so that wouldn't be a barrier um if that was a major concern even if it was something that was decided at the last minute so you didn't have to post that and um and just while I have a few minutes of air time I just wanted to um Express the support in any way uh I know that we don't um our our groups don't often intersect but I just want to make sure that um that you know that the school has um has this you know support in any way we can and just to put that out there if there's anything that we can do um on our end to um facilitate these discussions I know they've come up I've heard a little bit here and there and I tonight I join joed um just because I wanted to hear firsthand a bit um from what I'm hearing elsewhere and um as a resident I think it's very important um that these are being discussed and so I just wanted to I know the school committee has often try to find ways that we can support the seniors and we'll we're gonna be Mary and I are actually going to be coming out in September to do our um our own visits just to make sure that we do keep these open lines of uh communication going on so excellent thank you Natasha on two points one on the open meeting law and two and Jack just kind of you know whispered a little across the table that you know so I'm a little bit involved as is Josh uh with the new school building um and you know every time we save a little here and save a little there maybe a little that money the school department might be willing to donate to the to the seniors because the kids are going to become seniors someday too so we're just looking yes i' I've heard how there's different echelons of hierarchy Junior seniors I've been senior seniors I've I've been taking notes as well um my husband is actually a senior and so I'm sure you know I at home on my personal level I I have my own experiences with um AARP and Medicare that we do in our in our so I just senior here as well yes um so I I I honestly I often think about how we can you know open a space even right now um you know last night just it was thinking about how do we how can we maybe bundle I was thinking the bleacher and you know the the senior but I know that one's capital and one's operational so that posed a you know a statutory issue but I you know anything that we can do you know I mean I to try push these conversations forward I I don't like the idea of people um framing them as competing projects you know in any sense we're a town we always have projects that are happening regardless and there are just many needs our town has so um whatever kind of support that you know we can lend I um you know very much would you know want to just open that um opportunity to please reach out excellent thank you Nasha appreciate that Josh thank you uh so two two things Jack I'm really glad you raised the concept of not needing necessarily to to to do everything at once um I think when we get over to Mill and M it might be a good idea to take a look at that first floor and see you know is this a phase one phase two approach um and you know Peg to your point I'll be interested in seeing that floor plan to see if there's a way to modify um the the layout so that that Lobby is not as inefficient if there see if there's a way to maybe capture some of that space um so that we're we're taking advantage of it but uh my bigger point is that I think I think one of the challenges we're going to have and Jerry you were speaking to this is that we need to we need to Define what we need financially pretty quickly and we're not going to have the benefit of getting perfect information um and it's going to be I believe difficult for the board of Selectmen and fincom to bless this approach with without some specificity with respect to what we need um and so that's a long way of saying what I think we may want to do because I think it may make it it may provide more flexibility for us is we may want to increase our ask slightly because and I'll tell you why not because I think that if we and I'm making it up if we raise it $50,000 a year that it's going to pay for that that fit out but we could theoretically let's say let's say we try to negotiate with Mill and M to do the the fit out themselves and they roll it into the lease if we ask for that additional money it covers that let's say that we do that negotiation and millam man says no or Mill man says yes but we're going to charge you 7% interest because that's our borrowing rate to to make those Investments the town then if we have that additional money can choose to basically loan itself that money and what I mean by that is that we all know that there's competing interest with respect to free cash the town could theoretically say we're going to give we're going to invest $300,000 in Mill and Main on the fit out but we're going to take because the money is all very fungible we're going to take that $50,000 a year in additional money that that was asked for and we're going to dump that back into free cash to build it back up basically a way of loaning money to ourselves at a0 perc interest so my real point there is that I think if we increase our ask just lightly I don't think it's going to have a tremendous impact on whether or not the voters support it and I think it will provide all of us including the board of select the select board and the finance committee some flexibility as we figure out how best to finance the fit out costs excellent point to us thank you yeah I was thinking we want to up the ass a little bit anyway but I hadn't defined in my own head why I mean I knew I wanted to but I was taking more because of unknown than I just don't know a good reason yeah yes yeah that's a good reason perfect any other comments on uh you know name site visit uh I'll get something out tomorrow to the full committee um I like the idea about not having to post the meeting I have a problem with it but all right no check per thank you um if we do I can I'll do it I'm we going to check on do we don't need to do it correct whatever okay do first thing Monday morning um any new business um I think the new business might be um what I calendar looks like yeah yes yes and I work my calendar ow you today I'm I got to find it you want to get back to the first and third correct Thursdays correct so looking at the count so first and third it all depends on the interpretation of what one want to call first and third if we take a look at August there five weeks effectively so is the first Thursday August 1st we're calling that the first Thursday yeah or is it August 8th okay August 1 so that means we're having a meeting next week if we go to that so it would be the first that will be a remote meeting correct then it would be the 15th that would be a remote meeting then we we would go one to weeks we go to September 5th which would be hybrid like this one right so we're August 1st August 15 both are remote September 5th would be hybrid that sound about right everybody that gets us back to what we originally said I think in April March actually we talked about those dates and then we go September 19th and then we will be September 19th yes and then the one after that if you want to continue will be October 3rd so the 19th would be uh remote October third would be remote and October 17th would be uh hrid let's leave it at that for now that's that gets us out six meetings and that's something May pop up in between that causes us to have to change it right that avoids the holay right does that avoid everything I think it does it looks like it does I don't think there's a is okay [Music] oober yeah all right so that will be we'll put that in the minutes and we'll get that out to everybody so everybody's aware what the schedule is any other new business e thank for bringing that up I had it on here that's why I'm over here very good very good we don't need a clerk oh really any other new business in the room no online any new business any burning desires no okay any public comments course I would not have Ed be allowed the C to speak very nicely and very thankful for that he was really a member of the public we're okay which no public comment I guess at this moment then if there is nothing else I would entertain a motion I make a motion to adour the meeting at 811 that was quick um okay by a roll call Barry yes Mark yes Jack yes Baran yes de yes I me yes J yes Amy yes Stephanie those are all the voting members we are officially inuring 811 thank you meeting tonight