good evening uh this is the meeting of the senior center committee um Jerry is not here tonight at the moment and I'm taking over the meeting I am missing the U verbage that we should have at the beginning of the meeting about um anybody help me about rules yet of how to use the rules um Chris you might have them I don't have any available to me here and I'm not sure if that if we can continue without those that does anybody have an idea whether I could or not no sorry um Deb I know that at finance committee um the chair checks that all the voting members are connected and can hear and then just says that it will continue regardless so you might want to just check that all the voting members can hear are connected either in the room with you or can hear and I have 658 I think it's supposed to start at 7even I don't know if Jerry will come it's 71 well in the off in here it's 701 oh okay my computer no that's they always run you're right you're right too y okay so I'm going to ask if all vote voting members are present I'll call the V okay right um Mary yeah Paul present Deb is here Jack yep Maryanne pres Liz pres Jerry not Josh I am here Amy present Stephanie yep okay and I also see leaz on Linda and leaz leaz on Chris I think is here too yes there he is okay and liaison Lindsay I do not see okay so we have a quorum 10 out of 11 okay so um first remote meeting script from the select board meeting sure this is a long one it's the same we use um Stephanie is giving me the update on the select board verbage big enough for me as a preliminary matter this is deell vice chair um permit me to confirm that all members in person anticipated on the agenda of present and can hear me Josh you're back okay um members when we call your name please respond affirmative I think we we done we've already done that yeah um let's see good afternoon this open meeting of the senior center committee is being conducted bya Zoom um speakers on the agenda will be participating remotely and the vice chair may allow for the public to provide comments if public comments will be received the board would like to hear public comments and if there's further actions that required by the board the vice chair will add the matter as appropriate to a forthcoming agenda depending on the comment the board May if they able to within the confines of the open meeting law respond with information as opposed to needing to deliberate on the matter please note that while an option for remote attendance and our participation is being provided as a courtesy for the public the meeting will not be suspended or terminated if technology problems interrupt the virtual broadcast to individual attendees unless otherwise required by law accordingly Please be aware that other folks may be able to see you so please take care not to share your screen or your computer anything you broadcast may be captured by the recording or DS very important okay for um meeting business ground rules we are now turning to the first agenda item before we do so permit me to cover some of the ground rules for Effective and clear conduct of our business and to ensure accurate meeting minutes I the vice chair will introduce each speaker on the agenda after they conclude their remarks I will go down the line of members inviting each by name to provide any comment question or motions please hold your name until it's called further please remember to mute your phone or computer when you are not speaking please remember to speak clearly in a way that helps generate accurate minutes for any response please wait until I yield the floor to you and state your name before speaking if members wish to engage in calligraphy political of other members please do so through the vice chair taking care to identify yourself I hate that word Deb I think it's I think it's cqu cqu however we say we'll say it poqu all right I got it I'll have to practice that again I copy I I stole that pronunciation from someone else I think correct to but that's the way Mr Justa likes [Laughter] it once the vice chair has list all public commentators I will call on each by name and afford four minutes for any comment public comments for public hearings will only be accepted in person for open meeting law okay all right good there we are okay so we will go to the are we already called order we'll be talking about the acceptance of Prior minute meetings meetings minutes um if everybody's had a chance to look at the left yep there any questions no comment I have a question I think Christa Silva was in attendance and it list him is not in attendance not the last meeting I was not there not last meeting okay all right because it talks about you later on in the minute yeah what yeah Jerry Jerry Jerry volunteered me something okay okay he Vol told me okay if he wasn't here that's what happens when you're not here so Jerry we're gonna give jobs tonight okay would anyone like to take a motion make a motion accept the minute I'll I'll make a motion to AC the minute from the March March 12th 2024 oh I'm sorry March 7 March 7 anyone second second okay um all on approval I'll call the ball okay Mary yes approve Paul yes Deb yes Jack yes maryan yes Liz yes Barry's not here do yes I vote Yes Amy yes Stephanie yes motion carries 10 to zero okay um next on our agenda is the working groups report um Jack will tell us the prior research documentation review tonight yeah at the last meeting Dan did a really nice job of summarizing what the group had done looked at 89 documents sort of got to a point of suggesting 52 I think it was that be put into the pool or file whatever you want to call it for reference documents to be publicly available through the website is taking care of that the discussion at that point in time was a concern from a number of members that said well you know the group has looked at it but we the full committee have not had a chance to review it the assignment to the full committee was that you were to go as soon as Dan posted the list of documents review them and at this meeting bring up any that you have concerns about Dan has done that sent out the note literally I think within 24 hours of our last meeting as to where the documents were available and I'm assuming that all the members have indeed completed their action items and so now if there are any documents in that list for which you have concerns um please raise them and I would hope that if there are any um Dan will be able to pull it up so we can look at it and discuss it do any members have concerns over any of the documents that the working group suggested be posted and publicly available I don't did everyone have enough time to look through them yes or no yes thank you yeah they've been up for almost two weeks so correct can I can I say I had some question I had some concerns about the mill and Main I I because it has very specific bid documents and pricing documents and since we're sort of starting from Ground Zero does it give an edge to millam main if we're if we're eventually going to do an a competitive RFP um I know Amy was in involved as a town official so I think we you know we might have to put them up there because you know as a town official she was involved in that process but I had concerns about the mill and Main it's it made it seem like we were um not being that objective and and um sort of uh being a little bit uh in favor of that particular proposal may I those are my concerns about the mill main topic okay Linda may I interject for a minute this is Deb rousel um what I'd like to say is there were two different places that were looked at I think um Amy Loveless looked at a place in 2021 if I'm not mistaken and then the Senior Center focus group went and looked at a couple other sites that the mill and we received a document from the realator at the Mill um there was no RFP because we were a private group looking for a place that was accessible that was downtown and um met two of the three requirements that Amy lovess was looking for we have looked all over town for places um I think we had a list of close to 11 to 18 places to look for a place to do something Jack uh Amy has her hand up okay Amy yeah so um just to address that the um the Millan main uh proposal uh for for building eight was the that was the um the building that was looked at by the Council on Aging board um myself uh Greg Johnson so those documents around the building 8 property have been publicly released Greg released those to the select board so building eight uh documents have been already um made public yeah I would add the further comment and Linda you you raise a reasonable point but these documents one clearly public one made available to independent senior group but at this point they are between three and one's three years old you would take one's 18 months old or 14 months old they provide from my perspective rational reference points and don't point to any in my opinion particular favoritism or anything else it's just a piece of data but that's just sort of my opinion Josh I see you have your hand up yeah I was just going to add so um I've done done a little bit like this before so the it's a it's a great question to raise Linda but I think from my perspective anyways the the real question is whether or not we're giving Mill and M an unfair advantage and the reality is that if we go if we put an RFP out it is open to anyone um and Mill and at the end of the day um Mill and Maine is going to have a Financial offer that they're going to provide for their space I mean I suppose Mill and Main may have a jump start if they were to take on themselves retrofitting the building to make it a senior center but I don't think that's what they're offering to do that would be the only way in which I could see a competitive Advantage um but quite frankly we've dealt with this with the um ig's office before and communities will oftentimes do their due diligence and reach out um to to get budgetary numbers before actually going out to bid because as Jack mentioned before you kind of get into this chicken and eggs situation many communities don't know how much they need to budget for um and often times communities which actually we speak to later um don't are reluctant to put out an RFP till they understand what kind of financial exposure they have so doing a little due diligence um is fairly common it would be more of an issue if we started um creating uh comparative criteria that benefited Mill and M in the RFP itself um I think as long as we're having a nice neutral RFP that's not tailored towards Mill and M um I think we'll be okay just my my two cents anyways that address okay that's helpful to know if if if when we do the RFP we more neutral because there was a lot of positive a lot of positive there okay any other items in the proposed list to be published but folks want to raise hearing none I would make a motion to approve the list of I think it was 52 articles which will be part of a publicly available reference base I'll second it I can was that de yes okay I'll call the role Mary yes Paul yes Deb yes Jack yes Maran yes Liz Darry is not here Joshua he yes I thought was yeah yes uh I vote Yes Amy yes Stephanie yes motion carries 10 to zero did you no carries m so with that I will at some future near future Point work with the town I've already warned our um operational lays on Greg Wilson that I'll have 52 things coming at him sometime soon and um I upload them he approves them for publishing and then I can create linkage on the town of mayard senior center committee uh website to make those public and I'll let everybody know when that's done Steph is Greg on vacation all week yeah he'll be back on [Music] Tuesday Greg Wilson is on vacation till Tuesday okay I think you Mo yeah okay so um since we've done that Jack thank you for for doing that um next on the agenda is the FAQ page which is a um moving document or living document has been changed by the minute today um as we go and it will be changed again as we move along um tonight I think Liz would you like to address the FAQ page sure um I'm Liz B and um I've been having an active hand on the fq uh you've all seen a couple of copies now um and uh its originator was from Josh and we've been tweaking it as we went because we felt that these were the some of the high Lev questions that are most commonly asked um now I don't want to suck up the whole meeting talking about each one so uh how would you like me to proceed do I talk about just what change changed in the 544 p.m. document or a summary of each one how how is it should we best handle this because there are at this point want to display yeah oh that's what I I'm sorry I I got the thing at 5:44 I didn't look at what anyway um would you there 17 questions so would you want me to display it or not I can do it you can display it um I guess what we should do is ask those of you who have chance to look at it we've changed many things that are on here today um if you have some a question on any of these um articles that we have here or any questions please just raise your hand and we'll call on you I see and Paul yeah what what's your question you're not GNA see that yeah that's that's Paul yes I'm here do you have a question yes I would just like to suggest strongly that on number 11 what programs are offered at the senior center that there be a second part to that it says how much do do they cost because that was that was the first question we asked when we discovered the senior center how much does Zumba cost and I I really think that should be included for each so no just for the ones that it's usually all um Fitness classes anything that's active Fitness classes and a lot of the art classes the art classes too right and then so the ones that are free we just say not applicable or something yeah you want the prices for the grab and go as well pa well Paul has the floor no we don't need to there doesn't need to be a cut but just to say just a range uh they range from free to $2 each time for Zumba that that sort of thing just give them give them an idea of what they cost okay so some of the art classes are more than that like $40 or for the whole theories of Cl yeah so let me let me understand just quickly you instead of um assigning a cost for each one which exposes us on many levels and I don't think that's a idea I we you really want just a statement uh for what we offer the range of cost goes from whatever the lowest point is to whatever the highest point is yes ma'am exactly perfect if you put a price on it that's the price for Life yeah that's because you're a senior now right can can I inter can I interject since I I tend to set set the prices excuse me yeah Deb can you hear me yeah I was just going to call on you to see if you would like to talk and let us know what the prices are or why you have I would I would actually not put the prices in because um then you have the potential if something changes um I think Chris interjected that you know there's such variability so not sure the point of putting in the prices if you put in the price for a particular class and then the instructor um is charging more and the class you know the cost of the class increases or um I'm just not sure that's an anyone's best interests as far as potentially participating and then finding out that there's a change in the price so what about the the notion of instead of and I think we just talked about that not uh assigning a a cost value to each item but just having a statement that um the general cost and then have whatever the low range is in the high range um could we just could we just put free or affordable or without you know using some uh some adjectives that um sort of Encompass affordable to some people is not affordable to other people all right suggestion folks um list the programs put beside it either free or included or whatever and then put just beside the ones for which there is a cost put a dollar sign okay all that does all that does is indicate that if you wish to participate in this there will be some fee it doesn't Define the fee because they may change over time as as Amy said but it distinguishes between the ones that are provided as part of a regular whatever and that there is a separate cost yeah good idea I have a comment or question okay Dan um I think we should be careful not to try to replicate anything that is already publicly available from the Council on aging's own website for exactly the reasons that have been mentioned that you could get caught with conflicting information because things don't get edited exactly the same because they're being administered by different people I I think it'd be great perhaps to have some links at the top of this yeah sure and and and that's probably the safest way to get to avoid being caught with uh conflicting information between different sources uh I like I like Dan's idea a lot because in addition if you list in the FAQ the link you're reinforcing to those who read it the fact that the COA has this as a service that you can get this information at points or the COA yeah agree so Jack are you saying to take out all the bullet points um hey Dan scroll up to the scroll down to question 11 so we can all see you know what this is I think I am yes oh we are yeah I mean I I think that's okay because these are examples and it's not intended to be a contractually complete list and there's no yeah and iy I stated updated listing of programs and activities yeah there's the website this this uh and it goes right to that page it doesn't go to the it goes to the COA page that you and then get the answers to the question yeah yeah that's good yeah and the other way to potentially do this rather than listing all of the programs here is leave it for an updated listing but the COA the senior center offers approximately 25 29 30 whatever the number is it's literally getting across hey did you know we offer yet you know not not two not three you know there's there's I don't know 15 or 20 there and you can get the details at or an updated listing of but it's whatever the group wants to do if you want to list them list them as examples to show the breadth that's good too well why don't we kind of hear from everyone to see how they feel about it can we go down the list and ask people would they'd like a indan versus out we can do that okay just as an informal right idea Gathering right Mary I feel myself um money they'll find out when they see the program so we out we're talking about the list that tells you the thing not how much it's all right I thought I heard CL no that not at this point okay so do you want to keep the bullets in or take the bullets out say keep them in right now keep them in okay uh Paul yeah I like the uh the list but what I would do this is just just my feeling about it the first sentence says the mayor Senior Center offers the following programs which implies that this is it and I would say a senior center offers the follow um offers a variety of programs and services and then including theowing and then the list and and at the after the list put for an updated listing blah blah blah move move that sentence down below the bullet points I think that would that's my suggestion if that makes sense so if we change the top would you like to keep the bullets in or not yes definitely but just move that that updated listing blah down below it yeah okay did yes keep it please Jack I like Paul's suggestion I support that Maran I like what Paul said too I think what we currently have here makes it sound like these are the programs and we need to make it sound like these are some you know example examples of programs so are you saying yes or no to the bullets yes to the bullets Paul was saying what they're getting out okay good yes to the bullets not here Josh Josh uh oh I can't see Josh because of the um he's gone off camera so just move to the next person move to the next person okay um I vote to keep the list as examples with the idea Paul raised of just adjusting the wording so that it doesn't look like it's the total list okay um thank you Amy Amy yes yes keep the list and move the uh link to the newsletter underneath okay thank you Stephanie okay well that's nine to zero we we still have Lindsay here yes okay uh any comments um uh Linda H is first on my list from the yeah no I I agree because I think um promoting having more access to where the sort of typical programs are is better in two places like at the senior center newsletter or here so I think it's great to have a sample program list here so I agree keep them here uh lindsy mononi hello Hi how are you um so I agree with everything you're saying about this question um so I agree with all all of the previous comments I have other questions and comments on the FAQ but I'll wait until you get through those before I make further comment all right Chris I'm okay with the way it um suggested okay all right so we edit it yeah sure okay who else has questions okay lindzy you mentioned you had a question or two or three I do I have a couple comments but I'll I'll just start and you know we can decide if we want go through them um so my first is on question number six first of all I just want to commend you for creating this document I know it's really hard to create an FAQ because you're trying to anticipate everybody else's questions when you have all of the information so I think it's great um but starting with question number six what's wrong with the current Senior Center so a couple things one is I'm wondering if you want to include just in the list of reasons why it's no longer sufficient some of like the the failing infrastructure in that senior in the current space that people are in the fact that the roof leaks that like the the roof needs replacement that the envelope needs replacement I I know I just think it makes for a compelling argument to know that the the physical structure is failing um but I you know I defer to you guys on that um and then the other piece on that was I had a question on this particular stat and I've seen it in a couple places and I'm assuming if I have this question other people might also so where it says um according to the mass executive office of Elder Affairs blah blah blah um it says that the center should be sized between four and five square feet of space per senior is that per Senior Living in the town or per senior using the space I would assume it's um per Senior Living in the town because we're trying to make a place for everything but maybe the um Elder affair's do has more to offer on that but maybe Josh had some IDE I can answer that one for you so the department of Elder Affairs recommends that communities have four to five square feet per senior uh living in their Community um but what I will say just very briefly um there are two ways to deliver that uh one is building that square footage obviously the other is looking at the hours that you offer different programs because if you have expanded hours um then you don't need as much space so that's just food for thought so yeah either way it just might be worth articulating that because I've seen it a couple times and thought well those are those are going to be different numbers and one is pretty variable so it just maybe like tacking on some sentence just to help clarify that for people um since this is obviously intended to be a clarifying document um then let's see okay have two more and then I'll be done um on I think FAQ number 10 where you talk about why can't the programs be held around town so I think the the main thrust of that argument is that if we're number one it doesn't help Foster the sense of community that a senior center is hoping to Foster so that's obviously a Salient point and compelling and should stay there but then the second point is about how additional COA staff would be required if we had programming or when we have programming all over town um but and I don't know I tried to articulate this in writing but it might not have been clear if we are expanding the size of the senior center in the interim and ideally in the long term ideally that means we're adding programming and I would think that scaling up physically in size and scaling up in programming to get more people using the senior center is going to necessitate additional staff anyway so I'm I'm wondering if it makes sense to use the argument that we don't want to have to add more staff because it's more cost like in in number 10 if that's going to happen anyway because later down the road when we say well now added you know we have all this space and we have more people who can participate and use the senior center so we need to add actual FTE to the COA budget or you know we need to hire more contracted programming staff or whatever it's sort of you know like this argument then becomes kind of null if the reason why we didn't want to have programming all over town was because of the staff cost the staff cost is going to come up anyway so I I don't know I like again defer to you all on this but I just thought that it might be worth maybe simplifying this a little bit so that we're not leaning mean on that is the reason not to do something when it's going to happen anyway what you're suggesting and strike that or strike it or simplify it so you're not wetting yourself to this idea that like this is more fiscally responsible you know because it kind of feels like that's what the argument is is that like it it's costing the town more money because we have to hire more staff that's probably gonna happen anyway because if we're scaling up that's gonna happen anyway yeah this this this paragraph needs to be segmented Lindsay's brought up a very good point you're trying to cover in a single runon paragraph maybe two three or four different things you got the Staffing issue you've got the sense of community the distinct you've got three or four things all mixed up here so I would suggest to the editors that it be partitioned a bit simplified if we can agree okay thank you okay and then one last thing and we can table this if this you know is not if this is a later discussion but in question number nine um and I believe this is what you were just talking about is that you've evaluated a lot of the Town facilities yes so it feels like in this what I am taking from the answer here is that a new building is a foregone conclusion for the long-term solution that there is no existing building town-owned or otherwise in the town of mayard that will satisfy the needs and so I just want to for my own edification but also understand is that the position of the group or is it possible that some building might become available at some point in the next couple years that would be sufficient or is it the position of this group that no only a new building will satisfy all needs for the long-term solution um this is Deb um what I have to say about that is I know we have a building on at Summer Street 6163 Summer Street and people have talked about oh wouldn't that be a great place for a senior center or Community Center and that committee has not come up with a final decision on what um and the select board hasn't come up with a final decision on what they would like to see with that building so and that's one place that many people in town say well why can't you just move in there um there's a lot of why you know ifs and other things that um there are problems with that we can't fix right now um any of the other buildings that we've looked at in town we've talked to some of the owners and um they haven't been very receptive well this is says existing Town buildings it has nothing to do with private Enterprises yes this is just town so let's stick to just to okay just town I Town own facil like what other Town owned facilities do we have that would be available does anyone have fire station I heard well and I think then it's possible it's just I think that's a good clarifying point because there's a difference between there are no Town buildings that currently would satisfy the needs but I'm wondering if like is it possible that at some point a building that is privately owned would become aail like there was one for sale on Powder Mill Road recently I have no idea if that was appropriate for a senior but like it was for sale it had a parking lot it had river access it had an elevator in it so if something like that came up would that be a consideration and if so and again ier all of you is it worth clarifying that here like it's possible a building will become available or do you want to just put the stake in the ground now and say the long-term solution is building a new building no I don't think we're trying to say that I think to stand up Josh I don't know if you want to comment on but yeah I'm sorry I'm not I'm I'm also presenting to the Conservation Commission in Newton tonight that's why I keep looking back and forth um which is very challenging um I was just going to say it was a really good comment L Lindsay and I'll own this one um I took a crack at this and pulled it from another um FAQ the um but the reality is that regardless of whether we think and I would encourage even if everybody here thought there was absolutely no chance that any of the Town facilities could work this is part of the feasibility process is we have to do our due diligence we have to do our evaluation and we have to show our work so I would actually recommend changing this to read something like um uh that the use of existing Town buildings will be uh considered during the feasibility process and the results of that will be shared with the community yeah sounds good I like that I like it it sounds like we all like it okay ly did you have anything else that you'd like to ask uh no those were just the main questions and comments that I had so thanks those are great thank you for yes coming up with those tonight because it'll help clarify the document once we put it online thank you I have a question on the question okay the very first question from Lindsay uh about should we include something in uh I forgot which number I think it was number six um about the deterioration of the golf course clubhouse building um when I read this the thought crossed my mind that maybe we don't want to be too heavy on that because that denigrates where we're going to be for the next year or two no matter what and so I didn't know were we deciding to go ahead and include something I just didn't had put that in and then the more we looked at it we thought it was two negative yes two negative so is that okay then to yeah okay good okay while while while we're on six and Josh is still with us the sentence about the four to five square feet the word there is General standards standards imply something is that a standard or is that a guideline I see Josh is busy with his other if I'm not mistaken it's a guideline I think it's a guideline is what um Josh was saying uh on the site so i' say I would say I thought I had changed that change the word to guideline yes got it that's on document two D1 D2 d c will be tomorrow okay okay any other questions no one has a question about the document well boy all right well sorry can I add I ask one other question okay on question number eight the community center um and this just might be something that I don't know about but um it's about you know are we considering combining it with a community center and you talk about like usage um who so I have not like who would use a community center and has the town established that there is a need for Community Center and I just haven't heard much about that and so that kind of like that almost generated more questions for me but maybe this is kind of a generally understood thing is that there's also a need for a community center and we understand who would be using it Jack can you talk to that you did the um 2013 document was there anything in that about a community center Josh has his hand up okay Josh uh so I'll I'll take the hit on this one as well so um for communities that have done senior centers the vast majority of communities that have done senior centers over the last you 15 to 20 years um with the exception of very few they are typically multigenerational centers that are that serve as senior centers but also community centers it's kind of a bit of a a mixed bag and there's a few reasons for that um one is you know for some for some communities it's because they truly want to have a multigenerational facility they they want to destigmatize they want to be inclusive but for I would say for most communities what it comes down to is senior centers are a large investment and it's a it's it's a building that is going to have a lot of things that are very attractive to the older adult population but a lot of the things that are attractive to the old older adult population are also attractive to people of all ages um and you know unlike uh a senior cator like tols Parson in Welsley that that is open Monday through Friday I think 9 to 5 and they that's it they close their doors and they don't open they don't open the doors for anybody else um that was the only one out of the 40 that that I visited that operated in a model like that everybody else said well you know there's a huge demand for use of gym space or use of multi-purpose space or use of an art room after 5 o' from people with all with people from all ages you know the weekends are high demand as well um rental opportunities where it can bring in some money to help support the senior programs um you know so there's there's a lot of that so I oftentimes when communities are for lack of better word pitching a senior center they they explain it as an opportunity for it to be both be something greater than just a senior center but a multigenerational center or a community center fun fundamental answer Lindsay is and Deb was just referring to the you know 10year old committee when you begin the process of trying to justify the expense to the taxpayer it becomes a much more attractive offering in terms of its benefits if in fact it comes forward as a community center doing all the things that Josh just talked about to me question 8 really captures it with the first line we expect to include the benefits in our discussions the rest is perhaps doesn't even need to be there you're beginning to explain things before just or in addition to just answering the question so that um first of all thank you for all that background that was really helpful and Jack I think that's kind of what I'm getting at um that'll totally make sense but I don't see all of that in this answer um so I think maybe just changing it a little bit you know we expect to include the benefits of a multigenerational center in our discussions and the new space could benefit the entire Community maybe a little bit after that but I don't know that you need as much about usage and timing or anything like that it's a little more granular probably and to me it sort of begets other questions but if it feels like it's relevant then I'd say leave it in then maybe just add a sentence about how there is known documented um Financial benefit and Community benefit to combining a senior center with a community center and that's why that's something that we would be considering great idea yeah I mean going out all questions for a high level it basically says structure the question have a simple direct answer and then go through the rest of it on all of the questions does this really contribute does this just add confusion at this point in time so to the working group that would be my suggestion as you review the coming versions of the thing okay thank you we have any other questions I have one okay I think the committee as a whole should decide whether or not to give the working group the power to finalize and publish the document or whether a finalized document would have to be voted on each and every time whenever an edit is made I don't have a strong opinion but I think the the committee should think about deciding that because this document's going to continue to turn every month there's going to be question because we're going to be in questions from the general public we're going to get new questions we already have a bunch more and and the answers will change as more information comes to light and should we let the working group just do this and if there's any objections to something then we could take that up in the in the next meeting and make an adjustment yeah Josh has a question I just going to say that uh for reference on our senior center project in Newton we updated our FAQs I went and looked 717 times over the last six years that's only 100 a year so I was for thought a Google doc yeah it when when you talk about living and breathing documents this one really really is so I would like to make a motion then that we approved the work done so far by our working group and vote to give them the power to consider a particular draft as finalized and to be published and to control the frequency of updates as they receive recommendations from the committee do I hear a second second it's Paul yes okay uh Mary yes Paul yes Deb yes Jack yes Maryanne yes Liz yes Josh he's in his meeting no I'm here I said yes okay okay um I vote Yes Amy yes Stephanie yes the motion carries 10 to zero okay so let's move on for our next item on the agenda which is finance and tonight um it'll be discussed by Josh as um he and Jack and Chris met this week and Josh has something to share with us yes thank you very much can you hear me okay yes all right I appreciate it and I I am you know have my soulle focus I just had to take care of things on the other computer um so yes uh we had a very productive meeting uh Jack Chris Jerry joined us as well um we we talked about basically four major elements um the first one not in any particular order but the first one was uh securing State funds uh so Chris offered to reach out to our legislators um to see if we can potentially secure a state earmark Grant or Bond bill or something like that uh we talked about the possibility for feasibility study um or that or to see if it could go towards Senior Center lease costs um I did share that I i' had seen a lot of earmark grants and bond bills for um for Capital type projects and for uh feasibility studies I've never heard of one for ongoing expenses like a lease um so just for the group I I I don't think we'd be successful but you never know and it's worth asking um I'm going to skip over the the longer one um creating a budget line item uh that we could as as you may remember Jack mentioned uh the the kind of chicken and egg situation um you know early on it was that we couldn't put out an RFP uh for a lease until we had a budget line item but we couldn't create a line item until we had a number which required putting out a lease um so I think we've got that fairly well sorted out uh the Chris again he had a conversation with Town Hall um there's no issues with Town Hall and the select board creating an account with or without funds in it um that could be used for paying these lease invoices uh but to be clear uh there's there's not a magical pot of money um we are uh looking Chris is going to work with Town Hall to look into the $17,500 uh funds that was approved uh previously to see where that stands um but as far as additional funds that could be put in there um you know the the the budget funds are all spoken for at this stage so really this is just a question of whether or not we can create an account and it also might we might find out that the account that has been created um for that 175 may very well work for for it so those are all questions that uh we're going to hope to have answers on fairly soon um the senior center RFP process the request for proposal process so there is we uh again thanks to Chris he spoke with town hall there's nothing official that Pro or I'm sorry Jack spoke uh with with Town Hall on this one um there's nothing official that prevents the town from issuing a request for proposal for the senior center lease however blade there is some hesitation in issuing an RFP without the ability to fund the project and I I I can understand that that concern um we don't want to get you know prospective um uh Property Owners hopes up that we are going to enter into a lease agreement um if we don't have funds available uh but that being said we could be very open and honest with our RFP and just make it clear we're trying to get gain information at this at this time um and that we're not able to fund it but this is a step we need to take to figure out how much money we need to secure um so uh we we talked about this um this really is the the RFP is going to be something that we'll need to complete uh in the next six months or so but ideally it would probably be completed in the next three months um so that we have time to build community support which will make more sense when I go to the last thing which is securing Town funds so we had a good conversation in the working group and it is our recommendation that the uh Senior Center committee uh seek funds this coming fall um if you remember at our last meeting I had mentioned the possibility of um you know doing this in the spring of 25 possibly in Partnership or or uh in parallel with uh mayor public schools in their seek potential for seeking funds um but in talking it over in our working group um there's really no reason to wait that long you know my my point was I didn't want to wait till after the spring of 25 because you know I was afraid we could be just left in the dust um but they Jack Chris both raised good points that there's really no reason to to wait um provided that we can get ourselves ready by then so we've got some work to do um so and as uh as was mentioned in the meeting you know if hopefully we are successful but if we were not successful in the the fall we can always go back at it again in the spring so there's um a few things that I've been working on uh and I'll update you on that in just a sec so basically there's two things that we're uh well there's actually I'm going to share my screen here because I think it will be easier than me reading all this can everybody see this okay or do you want me to zoom in a bit zoom in please okay so and I will I will start by saying there's there's way more than five options because you could split this a million different ways but these were the five kind of primary options that I that I fought through when I game this out and basically what I'm looking at is we need to secure and I got a little more information today somewhere between 150 and $300,000 for the feasibility study I'm The more I've dug into this and the more I think based on the town process I think it's going to be closer to 150 which is good news so we've got uh $150,000 to $300,000 one-time money in a tax override to pay for the feasibility study and a $150,000 operating tax override to pay for the lease and I for just as a plug um I put $100,000 for uh outfit of whatever space we get to make it ready for a senior center um just for argument sake and quite frankly it will depend and it will be different for each location and that should be something that we figure out in the RFP as well but so I identified the $100,000 for a new temp Senior Center um outfit cost paid by free cash and again I'm I know I'm stepping way out ahead there's going to be competing interest for free cash I I'm not trying to suggest that this is a done deal it's just one one possible Financial solution um bonding would not be possible due to the duration um and because we don't own the asset so I really don't think Bond Council would support um a $100,000 bond for um shortterm work yeah hey Josh yep the piece that you haven't addressed that I suggest would be useful before diving into your options here you haven't spoken to the feas study and why that's important and so forth yeah so I I thought that was next on the agenda but I have a different slide or a different document I can I can stop and and swap to that I mean either one's fine I got to cover both so okay you're driving it so do whichever you want no it doesn't matter to me um I'm I'm comfortable either way so since you asked dealer's choice so I will start by saying that a feasibility study if you actually read the scope that you send out to a design team it's like 75 pages long I didn't want to put you all the sleep tonight so I tried to boil this down and make it a little little easier to digest so feasibility study is also called the feasibility design phase and that's an important distinction because a lot of people think of a feasibility study as a document that you create and then you put on a shelf and you never use but it actually really is part of the design process so anytime you're doing any kind of new park an intersection any kind of capital infrastructure project it starts with a feasibility design phase so for a project like a senior center there's a a handful of steps that are kind of the big picture ones what are the conditions and limitations of the existing spaces space or spaces programs and services what are the current and projected demand uh what is the current project uh current and projected demand for the programs and services what is the space program and space summary for the project this so the space summary of program is the document that lists every space the type of space and the size of space that we need to create and meet the uh project to create to meet the projected demand does the current facility or facilities meet the projected demand and space program can the current facility or facilities be modified to meet the projected demand and space program can an Olympic Village or decentralized model work and is it preferred important question is there an opportunity to consolidate with a neighboring Community is that preferred also an important question if a new facility is needed how large a site does it need how much on-site parking circulation and open space is needed what are the what are all the potential sites where a new facility could be located what is the best strategy for developing the prod project on the preferred site what is the budget for the preferred site what are the impacts of traffic site circulation multimodal Transportation storm water and other elements that may impact the community or infrastructure surrounding the preferred site so these are just a a handful of questions that you typically answer in the feasibility phase but big picture what you're trying to get to by the end of this is you need to there's there's kind of just a handful of big steps steps you need to show your work so you got to do all your studies you got to be able to present it in a simple way so the community understands it you need to know what you have you need to know what you need you need to know how you're going to deliver what you need and you need to know how expensive what you're going to deliver is going to be because if you can't answer those basic questions you don't have a shot in any community of getting support to pay for it so and then with that I also think that it's always important in a feasibility study to have um some basic rough sketch floor plans a site plan and some renderings because people tend to be more supportive of something that they can see and imagine themselves in so that's a feasibility study and you know I think I mentioned at one of our previous meetings that the fire station's a good example people talked about needing a new fire station in mayard for long long before I even got here um and it never really got off the ground it didn't really get off the ground until uh it was until feasibility funds were established and the project really got moving so until you get those those kind of seed funds to get the feasibility process going almost any project isn't going to get traction so that's why back to the previous document and I can I can jump back to this if people have questions but that's why you'll see that for the purposes of securing funds I think there are two things that we need um one it provided that we're all on board with addressing the shortterm and the long-term issues which we can speak to but um one is uh securing the funds necessary to start the feasibility process and the other is the funds needed to uh obtain a lease and I'll get to the long-term versus shortterm when I get to the bottom of this list which will make a lot of sense so I covered number one number two is uh $50,000 operating override to pay for the lease $100,000 for a new temp senior center for the new temp Senior Center outfit cost paid for out of free cash and secure the $300,000 for the feasibility study from uh the town via free cash or a bond again I'll just stress none of these are slam dunks they're just possible solutions $400,000 so the third option would be $400,000 one-time tax override to pay for the feasibility study and new temporary Senior Center outfit costs and $150,000 operating tax override to pay for the lease fourth option $150,000 operating tax override to pay for the lease $100,000 for a new temp Senior Center uh for the new temp Senior Center outfit cost paid for by free cash and wait until a date to be determined to seek funds to begin the feasibility design phase for a new permanent Senior Center so I just want to stress with this one this would likely mean that a new permanent Senior Center is a decade away or more the last option of the kind of high level options would be $300,000 onetime tax override to pay for the feasibility study and stay in the current senior center for the next six to seven plus years during design and construction of the new facility and I think it's important I I don't list number five because I think that's a great idea I don't um but it's going to be a logical question because I would imagine that for people who are not Senior Center users there's inevitably going to be somebody out there that says if you're going to invest all this money in building a new Senior Center well then can't you just kind of grin and barar it for the next few years but I want to stress the word few because it's really not a few years so the thing the last thing I would say on this that I want that I think I need to stress is that and and I I will then turn turn over the group to to debate this if there's a debate but I don't think and this is just my personal opinion I don't think that we can afford to do just one or the other here the the reality is that a new Senior Center even if we got feasibility fund the I think the fastest we could get feasibility funds would be this fall and the reality is it's every bit of six years from start to finish to complete a senior center project many communities it's 10 plus years to complete a senior center project some communities it's decades I don't hope that we're decades I don't think that we're decades but it's going to take a long time and I don't think that staying in the current location is something that Maynard and the seniors are going to be comfortable with um which is why I think we need to seriously consider the lease and the feasibility questions I have a statement not a question um if we were to have to stay in the new the old Senior Center the town still has to pay money because it's it's in terrible disarray so like the old school and the new school old school we're in the same situation the the current state we have to spend and maybe we have to figure out how much money but um it's not stay in the senior center that currently exists as it exists it's in trouble I'd like to add something to what Liz just said um if I remember at last town meeting um it was brought up that we were asked to um vote for 275,000 for a fix on the roof it might have been the year before that one year was 250,000 or 275,000 another year was a 100,000 and there was nothing fixed I mean there were little spots here and there that were fixed on the roof but with all that money that we gave them at town meeting we were told that night that it would cost over a million dollars for them to fix the roof now I don't know how many of you have been into the men's room especially um at the senior center um I think they close it down most of the time when it rains because every piece of ceiling tile has fallen down and there's buckets all over the place and um it's it's disgusting and I think asking our seniors to go in there to use a bathroom is just uncomfortable um the bathroom for the women um is kept a little bit better but we have buckets when it rains as well and um winter time a lot of seniors cannot even get up the ramp because it's closed because there's too much ice too much snow I I think I would like to add Amy I'm sure you have a punch list of uh needed maintenance items and it's more than the roof or access and those are the things that would have to be considered to stay it's not a free shot it's a very expensive shot and we've already been there almost eight years and if you're talking about another six to eight years we this Dan had his hand up I think we're tied I'll yield to Jack first okay um I think the comments just made sort of begin to say no option five or whatever it was is not something that we're willing to put up with so you're just giving examples of that um Josh I have two maybe they questions maybe they observations um when you speak in any of your options about going for money in in the case where you're looking at 150k for a lease that's only the first year inherent am I correct that inherent in that is also the need to um work with the town in whatever fashion to get the sustaining or subsequent year lease funds so what you'll notice is that in the in all five options I identifi the $150,000 for the lease as part of an operating override which mean that that would be something where the we would need the voters to support a permanent increase in the hund in the tax levy to generate $150,000 a year to pay for that lease now the thing that I think is really interesting about this is that if we were to do that on one hand I could see somebody and maybe somebody in the maybe somebody here right now looking at it and going well why would the voters pay do a permanent increase in taxes for something that they that we only need for um you know six or seven years and the answer is this is the beauty of it is that back to what Lindsay was mentioning earlier in six or seven years there will be an increase in the cost of operating this new Senior Center if that's the direction we go in increase utility costs and maintenance and I'm sure I'm I'm sure some staff as well so I would be very forthcoming with the community if we were to do that and I would just tell them the $150,000 is to pay for the lease and when the lease ends and we move into the new digs we are intentionally asking you for a permanent increase so that that money can then help fund the future Senior Center okay that that's helpful because I was thinking that an override was not a permanent kind of thing that that invokes multi-year kind of thing so that's helpful the second question you you alluded to a little bit in your early remarks uh and I'm so looking at your experience here to frame the question is it realizable to push on the legislative folks for an earmark for a feasibility study given that it's a one-time thing that can be defined contained so forth and so on does that work or it does so I got uh in Newton we got $100,000 for our feasibility study um so it is it's very doable those and I'll tell you Senior Center feasibility studies are something that typically legislators like to do and I'll just be very honest it's because there's a lot of senior voters out there so it looks good for them to support those kinds of things okay then then not to make a motion on it but I would suggest that we do some serious examination of that and get it underway because the Jamie and Kate came to the select board meeting this past Tuesday with the their sort of legislative update as they do Whatever frequency they do it but one of the messages they sort of both delivered and you've seen it in the various press things as well that um State revenues are dropping they've dropped for like five or six consecutive months they're below which means that the opportunity to Grant or find ear marks the legislators are going to find a little bit harder to do so marshalling the arguments and getting that momentum and pressure in place I think would be something that we should pay some attention to thank you so I spoke to both of them and I spoke to them uh from the the bench at the select board meeting the other night and told them that we'll be coming to them for money for senior needs so thank you Chris see where it goes neither one of them got their checkbook out I thought I thought you were about to tell us that they laughed at you they did I actually I actually talked to Kate beforehand and she's and Kate will Kate will see what you know what she'll be she'll she'll go back and start to look and um and then I didn't talk to Jamie singularly because he was not um there when I was there but earlier but um you know they they both know so Kate Kate knows for sure had a little quick conversation about it and um you know I mentioned it to Jamie while he was when he was finished giving his remarks so they both they both are aware of it now and um you know it's part of those minutes so when someone says oh I never knew well they can't say they didn't know well the the value we can contribute is to begin to structure it was 150 175 and this is what it you know so we as Josh was talking about earlier the even the legislators I think react better to a specific proposal that they either have to go to work on or push back on or whatever so I think the committee here could contribute some value by structuring what that your mark request would look like yeah they'll definitely want to see a price at some point yep um I have to jump off in a moment can I just add a couple of contextual points for you all to keep in mind as you're thinking about these different options so well first something I um Deb I think you were referring to before I think it was in 2020 and maybe 2022 or it might have been 2019 and 21 the capital planning committee did get a request for roof repairs and did allocate money the request came from DPW and the money was allocated um it wasn't spent however on the roof repairs this is really more like a question in the details for the DPW I don't know why it was in spent um I believe that it has something to do with cost increasing in the time from when the request was made to when the money was actually appropriated um or made available so you know there was I I think it was $327,000 total over the two different fiscal years so just a little bit of background on that and that the way the capital planning committee works is each department head says here's my list of priorities here are the things that need you know fixing or rebuilding or whatever um then the capital planning committee goes through and kind of has this really diligent thoughtful scoring model and everything gets scored and that's across all the departments in all the towns so that includes water that includes like roads infrastructure the schools fire police um COA so anyway I just wanted to give a little bit of history on that that's that's where that landed but if you wanted really specific questions about where that money is that would be a question I think for the town accountant and or for DPW in terms of freeat sure um in terms of free cash just something to keep in mind the way that Maynard in recent times has paid for Capital expenses that tend to be fairly urgent is through free cash we do not have a funded line item in the budget the capital planning committee has been recommending this for a couple years and this year we like put it into our presentation at the Tricom meeting I mean the Trib board meeting um because when something comes up there isn't there isn't a whole lot in a capital stabilization fund and there is not a funded line item in the budget to pay for Capital expenses and to give you a sense of what the scope looks like for all of the projects that are in the queue that any department heads so again schools fire police DPW for all of the various projects that are in like the queue waiting for some attention um in terms of you know money appropriation it's about $150 million that is waiting you know waiting for appropriation in projects and that's doesn't include the senior center so free cash is typically every year how the capital planning committee funds A lot of the stuff that comes up and it's usually things that are not insignificant it's like you know we really need to fix this well or a quarter of the town it's not you know going to have access to water or we need to fix this drainage system or we're going to be out of compliance with EPA regulations and we're going to get fined at a regular Cadence by the state until we do fix it or um recently the case of the um that really difficult intersection on um you guys know what I'm talking about Brown Street or the cat Cottages so sen Senator Eldridge secured um State funding for us to put a do you know do a traffic study and put a traffic light in there the state funding required that the town match the money without a line item and without like any real source of money we had no ability to match that money so it came from free cash because if we don't match it we lose it we lose free money from the state to do you know so as you're just thinking about free cash as an option I just I throw this out there as a word of caution if we're talking about something in the $4 to $500,000 range that free cash would need to fund This Year free cash was only $675,000 so I know that sounds like a lot but again keep in mind the $150 million of project requests that are in the queue um for various Capital expenses across all the Departments so preash I think for like the $100,000 expense or you know maybe the feasibility study is a good place for free cash if it's a one-time thing but I just I'm I'm not saying that it's not an option I just want that context to be kind of in all of your heads because the other thing is if this group were to say to the town can we just use free cash for all of this and it's going to cost you know between 400 and $500,000 what the town will see both Town Administration and I think voters will see is okay then we can't fund any other capital projects no sidewalks get fixed no you know like doors get fixed you know the teach like the schools can't buy new computers for the teachers the schools can't get security cameras that they need um like the fire department this year one of the funding um priorities was software for the dispatch system because like there there would be no fire dispatch if we didn't fund a software upgrade so those are the kinds of things that this would be up against so again this is not a caution against or an argument against I just want to make sure that everybody has that big picture context okay thank you Lindsay anyone else I have a question for Josh Josh it's about the it's about the feasibility study it's it my understanding of your presentation is a feasibility study does it will it um assess whether we should continue leasing or build or is's a just a feasibility study about building a senior center sort of a town a new town building or would it assess in the feasibility whether continued leasing would be the best economic solution for me or so it the the answer is you can have the feasibility study evaluate anything you want it to study okay um so that is certainly a possibility I will say that you know the types of firms that are going to do a feasibility study for a senior center do senior center projects typically and um you know they're working on the same guidance that uh I've shared with you from the Department of Elder Affairs so if hypothetically we were to go secure a 5,000 square foot uh space for the senior center the the the what a design team is going to tell you is based on the demographics of Maynard that may get you by but it's not going to meet your future demand it's not going to it doesn't meet your current demand and it's not going to meet your future demand based on the demographics and the growing um senior population so that's just a word again word of caution okay but they can certainly evaluate it yeah and I was I was most curious because in the documents we saw Acton and their plan was to build right and they ended up Leasing and it looks like it's a pretty good solution for Action I'm not quite so sure why they did that but it was a very strong build and then and then they leased but anyway so long as we could design that as in the feasibility study we could leave both paths op open because we don't have much land you can just see building an finding space in mayor to build could be a big problem yeah it's it is something that we should evaluate again if nothing else is part of our due diligence and doing homework um I will say that I I did not find another senior center in the state that uh leases space Acton was the only one I found Acton's the only one yeah well it's the only one I found out of the 40 42 that I visited um and the ones that I looked up online I didn't find another one it's possible and especially the thing is you get further out west some of the smaller towns it wouldn't surprise me if they are but at the same time for a real small town they also might be operating out of a room in the basement at Town Hall too yeah so and I was just going to mention Lindsay um you raised really good points and I will just back you on everything you said so I was on the capital planning committee back in 2009 and I was saying the same thing back then so sadly things haven't changed too much and that is not a that's not a knock on any of the elected or appointed officials that's just the reality of the Town finances um you know I didn't you know I wanted to let people kind of Express their opinions before I threw my two cents out there I wholeheartedly agree well I'll go even further I would recommend that we not try to rely on free cash to solve all these problems we would get ourselves into what we don't want to do is we don't want to get into a rock fight with other Town needs and other departments it's just not gon I'm telling you just based on experience it's not going to end well um you know the only thing that we may want to consider is the the outfit cost for the lease space um but then you know the other thing that we'll want to look at is and this is where we'll need some help from town hall when they run the numbers to the the impact the average taxpayer this is it may be so small that even that may not be worth taking on um you know a a a debate with you know other Town needs out there because we don't want to be in a situation of you know which is more important you know new scbas for the fire department or you know the temporary Senior Center uh you know chairs in the lounge that's we don't want to be like exactly you just articulated it exactly and it's it kind of is like a sort of like a public relations issue which I know doesn't make it great and doesn't feel fair but it does come up and so thank you that's exactly my point and so it's more just that it's it's a nuanced conversation is really what I'm getting at thank you okay do we have any more comments Spight Dam uh two little things on this current subject uh I think I'd like to express a huge uh thanks to Josh for helping to articulate the types of choices that we could consider not that these are the final choices but they are examples of of things that really help crystallize the conversation um and the thought process the question uh that we would leave with is is how do we move forward to get to where we are confident in selecting one of those choices what what are the next steps and I will just say I'm going to take take this on as an action item um I reached out to town hall today uh to try to better Define the feasibility costs because I'm used to a very very red tape intensive process in Newton and so my cost tend to be higher and I reached out to Greg and he looped in Justin and a few others um and we're the good news is we're all on the same page from a cost perspective I do think it's going to be that and they agree it's going to be closer to the 150 um I'm going to try to take a crack at um something that we could share with our whether it be our legislative folks or whomever we need to to kind of you know a one page this is what we what it will cost this is what it will buy us um these are the question types of questions it will answer and this is the rough duration we expect it to take something like that and then I'll bring it back to the group okayy anyone else before we move on okay that'll be a big help Josh thanks yes Josh thank you very much and Jack and Chris thank you all for meeting for that yes thank you thank you Jack and Chris I appreciate it and Jerry yep that's right Jerry I'm sorry wherever you are um new business is next um the new business at tonight is to um set up a working group to plan site visits to visit other senior centers and I know Mary has talked a little bit about wanting to go visit senior centers and people from the COA board as well so Mary I wanted to ask you would you lead that group I try this is all really so mate and but you you are interested in in helping so I think if you can get um either Amy or someone else from the COA to help you and then you can invite other people to go with you to take a look at that does that sound good very good okay Mary is going to be the um lead on the working group to visit senior centers thank you Mary should we vote yeah like take a vote do we have any other people already identified who would work with you or will those be announced later and we're just going to form the working group tonight with marus I think we'll form it tonight because probably I would think the COA would want to go as well as maybe some of us and um Amy would like to go from the from the the senior center yes so do we want to vote on Mary tonight as the lead for the um the working group for visiting senior centers y do we have a motion I I will in the absence of others I will make a motion that's I to for the senior center committee to establish a working group for the purpose of coordinating Senior Center STIs with Mary as the head of this working group I'll second it that's Deb thank you are you going to take a vote Yes Paul yes Deb yes Jack yes Maran yes Liz yeah um say Josh ah there you go yes that was that was for Josh oh I'm sorry yes and uh just a request take lots of pictures because we may want to upload upload some of those to the website okay yeah uh I vote Yes uh Amy yes um Stephanie yes uh the motion carries 10 to zero uh may make a comment some of the discussion that was not made available were were emails and some of the things that were thought of that this working group would handle is not only like the pictures that Josh mentioned but also the question of prioritizing which senior centers we should really try to visit sooner because maybe the towns are more reflective of the character of mayard versus Sudbury that has twice as much money right as we have um coordinating with uh uh those senior centers to get meeting time scheduled um but then finally a big one is establish some sort of methodology for how our knowledge is documented so that we can then over time compare what we've learned from the different senior centers if we have a similar methodology of of documenting everything um we'll work on that yes okay okay so that motion period great okay let's see any public comments anybody out there that' like to make a comment from the public no okay we'll let that go and I guess at this point I make a motion to adjourn the meeting I'll second okay all in favor you g to call it we'll need to call it Mary yes Paul yes de yes Jack yep Maran yes Liz y Josh yes I vote Yes Amy yes Stephanie y motion carries 10 to zero the meeting is adjourned at 8:33