e e e e e e e e e e e e Workshop business executive session of April 24th 2024 will now come to order Madame secretary will you please call the RO present Mary Beth Donovan present Lori Keegan present Kristen Maxwell Daniel shabila present Kenneth wette present mayanil Perry present thank you uh may may I have a motion to accept the agenda as presented so moved second my member Henry uh Willet second to by member Delan any discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I uh actually I get a pause here do we have anybody remote tonight no okay all right because if we had remote I'd have to do the RO okay uh all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed thank you the eyes carry the agenda let's go to the flag salute I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay has anyone signed up for public participation no no and there were no letters submitted okay so just a reminder if you can't make the meeting in person for public participation you can still send an email to Matha suroy got it right that time at maoy meu. k12.us before 3 pm on the day of the school committee meeting uh thank you that closes public participation superintendent would you please start the discussion for the fy2 budget adjustment sure so in your packet um there is a memo for Budget adjustments to date based on our uh initial meeting on April 8th so uh we did this process last year and it worked out really well because we had one document that kept track of all our adjustments until the end of the process and then um at the end of the process once there's a number agreed upon for the final approval and budget hearing on the 21st I believe it is of May my don't quote me on that but um that that third week of May when we have the public hearing and the school committee approval vote that evening uh you will have the whole new packet of Excel spreadsheets Staffing sheets everything that Ian would actually have to put into a budget um that would go into munice right so uh for those of you who were here last year it would we did the Staffing sheets plus everything from budget sense by building we don't have budget sense and we don't have munice uh ready for fy2 so both uh Ian and the cafo are doing the budget with Excel spreadsheets with the right codes so that when the munus turns over to fy2 the idea is that we just upload the school department and the city budget into munus if that makes sense to everybody all right so we'll look more spreadsheet like than budget sense like because we don't have budget sense anymore and hopefully next year we will have the munus reports that actually have it in when we can roll in the real numbers into munus okay so um this is uh at the last meeting uh we didn't discuss the number that that the city has allocated for the fy2 budget for the school department um so I did outline that here the the number that this the budget has allocated that uh the mayor and the cafo have shared with us for the operating budget is 104 m724 one80 so this is always the confusing part and I'm going to hopefully do this well and then when I uh might uh swerve into the buckets of what our budget is made of Ian will help me but um the foundation budget that comes from the state is 115 million right the state says we believe you can run your budget with $115 million the one piece that is missing from that $15 million is Nonet that's the transportation cost right this the state says you own that your community owns that you guys have to figure that out we're not calculating that in as part of your foundation budget so when Ian where we passed out the sheets I think last time in your book you have from desie the foundation budget numbers it's going to add up to 115 I believe that's what I put in the memo that I gave you guys initially right what that memo was lacking was that subsequent piece of what we estimate the non-et to be so so that's the first part operating budget includes this is where we have different buckets that we talk about because we don't uh have much control over the chargebacks right the 115 million includes the chargebacks so when we talk about the number that the city gives us right the city is looking at how much money they can allocate for transportation and operating budget and Maggie already knows what she's going to have for charge back so that's not a number we talk about collectively that you vote on how did I do okay what would what would we change or clarify no you're you're good you're good am I close um I did get a question I think there's Clarity there right because this is we always talk about it and I think it's really important especially in an urban District where we do rely so much on that state aid and what the state says our budgets are it is often hard because there we talk about them different ways and I think that gets me confused sometimes and so when we talk about it with my staff right with our team we know what we're talking about and what buckets we're looking at but then when you put them all together we put it together in one way for the city we put it together a different way for the state does that make sense so like we're trying to put these into buckets but it's really all one big picture um but what is within your p purview is what we're T we're focused on so yes Claire anything that you think um I just want to be clear that we do not write a check to the city for chargebacks um that is essentially that and it's that's Insurance school resource offices that is stuff we need that the city pays for um and then when we do our end of the year report City gets credit for spending those funds on education um we focus on the net operating which is anything educational and transportation and we call that the operating budget so that's anything that takes place in the schools as well as Transportation added together that's the number we're looking at and that's the number that superintendent gave us from the CFO the 104 that does the 1049 or 1047 sorry um so that's some we're looking at that does not take into account the chargebacks that doesn't affect our spending okay there any questions about I just I I've try I saying it also helps right and helps the people who are watching um just understand the process so Mr yes just to uh add to the equation when you're talking about Municipal chargebacks the most recent Health Care increase was2 to $3 million above the previous year so when you're talking about a $3.8 million increase from the state that essentially almost swallows that up just with health care costs so that's a factor that we have to consider we're not P the GIC correct um so I just want to you know add that thank you yeah thank you so um what we're looking at here and we gave you a preliminary budget with which uh we did feel right that was that is uh my job to advocate for what I believe the schools need and the principles were all here the department heads were here um you know to present not a wish this isn't a wish list this is what we believe we need to keep class sizes low to support you know we talked a lot at Great length about student behaviors and I assume we're going to talk a little bit more about that that tonight um as well and the support that I think our students and staff need in the buildings to you know address the changing uh uh environment and climate and atmosphere that is happening in our schools um you know support our growing number of second language students the Tenny is uh right now experiencing what the timy experienced two years ago right their numbers have soared uh so we're looking at some additional staff there same as the high school the high school grew has grown uh quite quickly uh in its number of L students too typically we have seen in the past uh our L numbers grow uh more rapidly in the lower uh schools and students if they're with us long enough will um test out of being uh English Learners by Service delivery and so we're not seeing that necessarily anymore kids are coming to us in en rolling at the high school level with that second language need um so we do have those uh so that was the budget we came to um with also some requests that uh were deferred from a few years in a row now our secretary request and our K8 stem administrators were probably two or three years in the running here to request those back in the grammar schools um so what we what we looked at I think it was important to present that to all of you I I would stand by the fact that if if the money does change those are definitely positions that we still would need in our buildings to support and and see progress in our districts um but that's not what we're faced with so uh we went through so what you'll see on the bottom here is I think the most important part is that uh looking at the new any new requests and some of these are uh currently vac positions uh we had two goals in mind and we continue to have two goals in Mind through this process is that um you know we're we're trying to preserve as many student facing positions as we can that's number one and uh we also want to preserve as many current staff members that we have so by looking at new positions things that are already vacant do we need to fill it how can we fill it differently that means we're not layoff notices to to an actual person right so how do we do that and do that creatively so this list that you see here is made up mostly of some of those new requests that we put in and Justified the reasons we need them to support the district um and uh the first one there which is more unfortunate than anything else but you know for Budget purposes it makes sense uh we have an ASL teacher at at the methun high school that we really were hoping to to have that be part of our uh World language program and we posted it again six weeks ago with zero interest um so that's a position you know we're we're just we're not going to fill it and we're not going to offer it it's complicated we can't get somebody in that position so it makes sense that we just eliminate it at this point um and then uh so the new request for director finance that was from FY 24 that has been removed all four of the K8 stem supervisors have been removed um the director of Health Services is an interesting one um so what we've done right now is we it's a it's a current vacancy so uh I believe we shared that with you in December or January that the director of of Health Services did resign and so um we have her on part-time as a consultant to get us through this year so she's doing some of the things that the administrators you know that we need the administ Traer to do um to finish out the year and then we have a nurse leader kind of working with Miss boac dayto day on nursing needs so um we we feel that we can try to be creative with that and and have either a part-time uh person help us run the nursing staff with a nurse leader again we're not sure what that's going to look like so we didn't fully uh eliminate the salary line we reduced it it was at 100 we reduced it to 30 because we do think there's something we could do there we might come back to you and with a different creative idea I'm not quite sure yet cuz it is uh it's a very unique position uh it's it's a small department but a very critical Department in the schools and so uh we just we might need a little more time to talk about what that would look like um we remove the salaries for the new request for the two techs two new um technology technicians to be in the schools removed salaries for any new media staff in the four grammar schools with the hope that we will still open the media centers for use right so Dr gassi is working overtime right now um I think she was with groups of students over uh April vacation starting to weave through books we're looking at auction sites we're looking at different places to get you know the tables and the different shelving we want to open the libraries to make them um usable which is I'm not going to say half the battle but a big part of the battle right now is to get those spaces to be actually usable right and so um while we might not have full-time staff that we can have in those spaces um and we we heard the mayor loud and clear about partnering with nans we're certainly going to you know continue those conversations um and think about creative ways that staff currently in the building can use those spaces so we're pushing hard to get the spaces open uh to be usable as a work Library Innovative learning space so we're still going to push forward with that um and then we did remove salaries for all five of the new secretary positions and then on the second page so here's some things that we will do and this pretty much happens on a weekly basis I know one of them I wrote that it's a bi-weekly um but uh Mr golin was able to uh we talked about this last time fy4 for please take a picture of it right what do we have in salaries because we have salaries that have been encumbered for um program assistant positions that we don't haven't ever filled um you know we have vacancies in our salaries in our professional salaries we have teacher vacancies right now we have not filled right we have other people taking on additional um periods and classes and work um so uh we took that snapshot and we're estimating at this point that 1.2 million of those Inc unincumbered salaries at which I just said would be transferred to circuit breaker to help offset the outof district tuitions for fy2 that is something that um we've discussed at Great length with the cafo as well um we've also used some of the money that will be coming from the emergency shelter I think I shared that with you we expect another payment to be coming in by June of this year um to be around that $300,000 we actually have not heard I don't know if you guys have been following this but we have not heard uh last year we had uh three uh payments we have not heard anything about the March 1 to June so I'm not sure if there's going to be any money left uh for the the state to pay that last quarter out for us um I'm not saying it's not going to happen haven't heard it and so uh this may be our last uh supplemental emergency homeless shelter payment from the state to support the schools um so we've adjusted uh in that category we've adjusted for supplies and materials that's really within our perview to use those funds transportation is a big one we've used most of the funds for Trans like we've actually used the funds already for transportation um we can use them in professional salaries right because the students are in all of our classrooms and we can use them supplies um so that's where we've moved that and then uh Miss boac and Mr gin will be meeting and and I said bi-weekly here but it's probably going to be more like on a weekly basis um you know our out of District tuition's um projections are always just that they're projections until they happen and so uh I think I shared with you a lot changed in our projections even from November to March um you know where we landed with this budget is is the projections based on the students we have and that we are uh financially responsible for their programs for next year landed at a $3.8 million increase over this year and we talked a little bit about the fact that that is still coming off of last year the state allowed the outer district schools to raise their tuitions by 14% because they were held harmless during covid and so instead of gradually increasing their tuition they went from held harmless to 14% last last year we had a lot of advocacy for that we haven't seen much change in that regard so we're still feeling some of the effects of that not our collaboratives right so I want to just make that clear I'm not talking about the schools our Crest collaborative seam collaborative Valley collaborative where some of our students go those tuitions are traditionally less and their increases are not um unreasonable right those increases typically are within like a three 3 to 5% increase every year which is what we would expect and so the good news there is that uh when Ian and Miss boac met last week the week before last um we already had a $3,000 adjustment in our favor $300,000 sorry $300,000 adjustment in our favor without a district tuition so he already adjusted for that meaning that a placement changed or a student may have moved something changed within the placement whether it was the actual school or the financial responsibility was shifted so again those meetings right that's what we're having those meetings who do we have I can tell you right now we've had a couple of movein this past week we're questioning it's just that's an Ever Changing and shifting uh space and so um I think one of the most important things we've talked about uh I know we've talked about it during my tenure is making sure that we and and the mayor understand Maggie understands um Ian is very good at watching it at this point is that our circuit we can't go below a certain number in our circuit breaker it might not seem normal to uh the outside Community why we have2 or3 million do sitting in our circuit breaker account it's because of that right like I get one residential move in that could be a half a million dollars and one one Fell Swoop and so it's if we if we keep trying to maintain that account at a certain level it allows us that flexibility and level of I'm not coming to you we're not going to city council right we we've been able to do that I think our first year or two working we worked really hard to rebuild uh the amount in that account so we we would never want to spend that to a point where it would make us uncomfortable knowing how much those tuitions are and that somebody could move into our district or a placement could change for a current student now um at any different rate so that's why we try to move money into circuit breaker to rebuild that account so we we again that's something that we've done year after year the school committee has supported that 100% understood it um you know I I would if you have any questions about that I wholeheartedly believe it it's the only account that we have to use for that purpose that can that can roll year to year and that I can have a certain amount in it I have to cap it I don't think we're going to reach the cap I can only carry forward what I get reimbursed which I think was about 7 million is that about right we're not going to have 7 million in it but we we you know our goal I think Mr Goslin we want to make sure that we have two and a half three million in it at all times and I think that is really important and really responsible and I really wouldn't advocate for using those funds uh beyond that for anything else because it leaves us in a a challenging position Mr gin do you have anything to add to that I just wanted to point out that that recommendation came strongly from Shan Cronin when he was here yeah that that that fund be healthy and available should a move in happen or something a sped cost falls upon us rapidly so yes M Kean um I just want to be clear though if you get a move in mid year Judiciary responsibility remains with the S the old school until um the following school year right unless they move in if they move in before March 1st I believe it is and if they move in after March 1st then it's a whole another year right so why are we getting unexpected huge sped costs if that's the case when the when the previous town or city would be fiduciary responsible for that tuition such a great question so we have what we're seeing more of students aren't coming from different towns are coming from different countries with different needs and so we are experiencing some of those where we have kids coming to us and we need to have like a 45-day placement immediately to determine what's going on with a student so we're coming they're coming to us with just more challenging um you know complex some are coming from other districts and we know you know gen knows how to project that out and we still owe Transportation costs I think when we you know we we share Transportation costs when that happens so there's still a cost value so we try to project that as well but you're absolutely right the projections of any students that we didn't have Financial um obligations to this year that have moved in we will next year so that's part of the projection but we are getting students um you know whether they're from the homeless shelter whether they're from another country that we do have to figure out what their needs are and so there's not that you know the the cost is on us uh at that point thank you that makes sense y um so so the the chart that you have in the middle of the second page is the same chart that was in the executive summary and this chart is a live Excel sheet chart from our budget workbook so anytime we make adjustments it's automatic this is the magic workbook that our business manager uses and our HR Director uses um so these are the numbers that are constantly get adjusted as we adjust salaries as we strike out and make things to a a $1 uh you might see in the budget right we might not eliminate a position but we're going to put the salary at a dollar in hopes that as money comes in we're not coming back here every two weeks to to have you guys approve a position but it will be very clear at the end of this process if there's money that comes comes back to the the district what positions are the priorities that we want to put back into the operating budget because that could happen right we're voting on a budget in May something could happen at the state and in July they could say we've we've changed the allocation and methan is now getting I mean yay methu is now getting a million dollars more in chapter 78 and so it has to be very clear what that process is on what do we doing with that million dollars more right and so that will be part of our I know the last two or 3 years I've actually written that we've actually discussed it here at the school committee and the school committee has voted on the actions so that if something has to happen in July and August everybody's clear when we leave for June what the actions would be if any of those additional funds came into the district right what are the priorities that we would put back in the budget does that make sense everybody so so we're so we're getting close so here's the I mean there's good news and then there's not good news right so so we're we're certainly not $10 million off of where we were right we were pretty far apart from what the city had allocated to what our our needs were um we're at $6,495 $767 at this point um so we are 1 point just shy of $1.8 million still above what the city has allocated so really what we're looking for right now um you know next steps I put a couple of bullets there I think it's important for us to have some additional conversations this evening um and I you know will continue to monitor any additional State funds that I you know which I already shared for the emergency shelter if if I hear that there's going to be another payment last year we heard there was going to be another payment and we were able to adjust the budget before the city council um because we knew that payment was coming in so we could reduce what we were asking for I think that's what we ended up doing at the end the very end of the process um and then you know our leadership team I think we have some work to do based on this conversation tonight I have a two or three hour budget workshop with the principles and the and the directors on Friday afternoon to go through uh some things so with what I've presented to you the the first uh preliminary budget and this there are no physical layoffs right no nobody because of these right these were open positions or new requests right so we're not losing qualified people right what's going to happen next is I can't get to that number uh without now starting to talk about positions and people in those positions right and so that's why we have to have this conversation is what are the priorities you know I can tell you what my thoughts are which I certainly am going to share and Advocate what my thoughts are um but we'll also take direction from the school committee about what you want us to look into or bring back um yeah so that's my piece member shabila so before we even start talking talking about layoffs because that's the last place I want to go I want to start with the non-net specifically the the buses okay and putting aside our general disdain for nrt mhm um I don't know if anyone follows the masc which is you know as you guys know the Massachusetts Association for school committees and they're daily blast if you're a nerd like me um there's been a lot of talk lately about how they how school districts around the country are saving money by altering their bus routes M they're doing um centralized stops they're doing Consolidated routes they're doing radiuses around buildings where they become Walkers and I know that it's isolated in these articles but there's a potential for savings there and that's not going to impact class sizes that's not going to impact PE it's going to inconvenience people especially those close to the school I'm close to the school but that's an inconvenience I can live with so yes so thank you for bringing that up I um I I this has a this has been a conversation that we have bandied about um we did bring this conversation up about transportation and Our Roots and the ways that the district could save money on Transportation two years ago three years years ago two years ago two years ago um and so uh we did present and I'd be happy to bring it next Thursday um one of the things that uh we do is that we bus everybody and uh so what we presented to the school committee at that time was if we if we had I mean if we followed uh the regulations I don't have to bust anybody 7 through 12 by La now I don't think that's what we want to do um right so so there's a happy medium somewhere and I think you know other districts have done different things about busing and how many miles away from the school and what the regulations are so there are regulations about the distance from the school and the age of the child right because we're we're thinking about like a walker and what's the reasonable amount of distance from a school we would want a student walking right an older kid might be able to walk farther so that distance around the high school might be greater for busing um so we actually I I I I believe we could pull that same proposal up and share that with all of you next week to see what that would do um basically uh if we start uh moving away from the schools and not busing students everybody uh it will reduce the number of routs we need which obviously is where the money savings comes in now that's definitely a conversation for this committee and a conversation for the community you know I don't know how much time we have to do that but definitely something I can bring to the school committee to show you I think we had a list of exactly we did a map if I remember correctly yeah calling to a map and we had um you know this is what a mile would look like this is where the mile radius is around the marsh around the Tenny around the CGS right and anybody outside of that mile would be bust anybody outside of this amount of radius from the high school would be bust so we did that and presented it I think we went school by school um you know at that time uh the conversation was Dynamic but we did not move to change any of our routs it definitely is a moneys saver if we if we start changing the roots and not busing kids who live so close to the schools now there are some exceptions to that which I think we accounted for I will go look we have talked about this this past week um I will go look there are some exceptions because for example at the CGS there are places with no sidewalks that are within a half a mile for for me I think we're responsible for transporting students in that case right whose whose parents don't have the opportunity to transport them and there's no sidewalk I can't ask kids to walk uh you know even if it's a half a mile if there's no safe sidewalk on on that side of the road and so pwn street is a t you know there's a there's a few streets and locations in this community that are really tough to tell parents we're not going to have a bus so you know there would be some exceptions to that rule which we'd have to be okay with too if we started to entertain that idea but I will be happy to bring that um on Thursday night next Thursday yeah that would be fantastic I mean it's it's not a fantastic option but again I'd rather have people people outraged over buses than outraged over layoffs so my just my thought I mean the the the the conversation to have with us is is you know what where is our comfort level right so so we're looking at positions right now our next step so I will share with you um we went through a very quick activity this week and I say quick cuz I wanted to have some of these things in my head for tonight um if if we took so we've taken these out that's adjusted here in front of you right if I now go to the next activity I don't know why I'm calling activity because activity sounds fun and it's definitely not fun but but the next you know uh step for us right when we sat this week is to look at a right what are the current positions I have that are vacant I have resignations that are just now gone because there's not a person in those positions right so again not awesome because we're talking about a guidance counselor position a science position at the high school a foreign language position you know that either was has been vacant all year and other people have been taking sections or somebody is moving on or retiring and we're just not going to fill it even though we think we need those you know we've we've already started to calculate those positions and um that gets us closer to a million dollar by doing that um so those are some of the conversations we're going to have with the principles on Friday is okay take away you know the things we know that don't have people attached to them right so anything that might be open a long-term sub in it right somebody's just resigned from a long-term medical leave right we have some of those there's not a whole bunch but have some of those take those out uh attrition you know what do what do we have uh I think we calculated at about we're closer to a million right so so if I'm closer to a million that still means that now I now I'm out of options at that point right anything beyond that is going to be actual people in positions adjustments in Services class sizes right enrollment like we're not just you know we're talking about all facets here um but you know that's that's what would be the those two next things are going to happen to that's what I'm going to have to present to you guys for Thursday night right is what is the actual number of okay these are vacant open um and gone what does that number give us that we've actually put in the budget because they're current positions um but there's it still means I'm not laying somebody off all right and then working with the principles to say where is our comfort level with class sizes of 25 maybe above in some places you know I would I would have the conversation with my principles to say not comfortable at K4 right I I'm just like we might have to get there but we're going to start at the older level and work down which also gets complicated because now at the grammar schools in 538 you're talking about lure issues because not everybody's licensed to the same way so so if I start reducing teachers it's not quite as easy because not everybody has a math license in seventh grade not everybody has a English license in seventh grade right so now the conversation just gets much more complicated at the school level on The Who and the how uh and what Li insures do we have that we can keep people that we can eliminate positions and still have the right um certifications in place so I just want to finish up my my comment and kind of as an added I don't want to call it a bonus but to Aid the conversation about buses when we're talking about layoffs there's a cost associated with that layoff correct yes there are memb chabilo which means for every teacher I lay off I lay off a second teacher for unemployment yeah yep so we're not talking one we're talking two and that that's real money yeah I just want to make sure that is it might it might not be a straight one to one but it's it's going to get close right it might be a one to two but no matter what we have to we have to account for unemployment um because that's real money I mean that's as soon as I send layoff lever you know unemployment comes in so we've we've been through that enough to know what that ratio is Mr chairman yeah I am serving in my 13th year of Public Service and I survived a couple of recessions pretty harsh ones this one has the strange inclination of a recessionary budget but we're in a full economy so the state continues to drop the ball in assisting the local communities and we just recently had a joint meeting with the city council and talking about an audit which in principle I support but the Massachusetts Municipal Association is advocating for a restoration of restrict unrestricted state aid because the governor's budget reduced it from 3% to 1% and it seems like the the house ways and beans budget was on board with that and then we're talking about a million loss so far from Holy Family Hospital now if that closes what member shilia indicated is a multiplier effect of how many jobs are linked to Holy Family Hospitals now the rainy day fund the last time I checked was still Rising it's 8.4 billion dollar with the state now if we're operating at a recessionary budget which every indication I see is because we're going to have to make cutbacks we're going to have to sacrifice so we might have to increase class sizes historically I think it's been the best ever at 20 pupils class okay the traditional amount and it's in our policies range anywhere from 25 to 28 kids do we want to go back to those days of having 25 to 28 kids to a classroom so we're we're reversing what has been happening with the gains that we've accomplished as a school district agreed now if we're going through an audit and we have to increase class sizes how is that fair to the school system and to the teachers if we're conducting an audit but again I have to encourage my colleagues on the respective unions they need to reach out to the the state house there's amendments under consideration the Gateway communities there are sending letters and passing resolutions and making calls the respective unions have to be on board at this moment in time marshalling their resources and approaching the state house because we're in D Straits and like I said before I've gone through two major recessions and we had massive cutbacks and I think we were able to at the last second save uh layoffs in the methan public schools I don't think we've ever had a budget that initiated layoffs to myp perspective right in the past have we ever had yes we had layoffs in the past of like teachers yes yes okay 20 there was 20 at one point oh because of the co because of the uh back of State AG we haven't had any laid layoffs during my tenure it was previous to my tenure okay so Co we were able to hold it off with our hold harmless we the teachers agreed to not take a raise and we were waiting until we got funding so we were able to hold off layoffs but it's it's not a typical part of our process is that every year we consider layoffs no okay I have not this is the F this is for for me yeah year six and the first year uh you know the first couple of years of my tenure were stressful coming off of the $4 million deficit but we were able with the then mayor joua and then mayor Perry we were able to maintain and start building and a lot of that was over the past years with the S SOA fund starting to come in because it didn't H it didn't happen with the co right so was delayed a year so we were really we were kind of pushing over the fy19 2021 hump uh to get to 22 23 and 24 and I think we started to see that increase and that also you know coincides with that's when our cafo for the city we didn't have a cafo the first two years I was here um so she was hired and I think there you know there was a lot of uh understand you know she came from school and Municipal so she understood uh both both aspects of you know government spending and how the finances work so that was really helpful and she has been very helpful to the process um so you know we're in this position and it it is heartbreaking because we have spent time and money and effort and energy to build a district where it should be and where it should be going right just having today I was in yesterday I was in a school today you know we have tntp here this week so Dr goloby and I are trying to be in nine places at once in classrooms and seeing how literacy is is going and working and being in classrooms for the past two days uh with grade three classrooms of 19 and 20 is fantastic right things are happening in those classrooms that when I was principal at the CGS when we had 28 kids in class I mean I I do remember that we had 25 to 28 kids regularly in every classroom K through 8 when I was a principal and that was normal mhm and that can't be normal anymore because as I as I've said all along a classroom of 20 today with the needs of those kids I I I can't stress anymore than I have for the time that I've been in this position our our demographics have changed the needs of our kids have changed their their academic needs their behavioral needs have changed it's a different dynamic in a classroom of 20 than it was with a classroom of 28 15 years ago there is no doubt in my mind it looks different it feels different right so if we go back to 28 kids in a classroom with special education ESL needs behavioral safety plans I that is it is we are regressing and and we've worked really hard to use all of our revenu right and I think in your book you'll see that right we that was something that I know Ian and I spent a good amount of time with Sean Cronin my first year right really looking at you have to use all of your you're getting entitlement grants you're you can't peace M it it all has to be part of the biggest the plan what is your plan to educate kids right use your title One funds so that it's part of the plan it's part of your reading plan it's part of your teaching plan it's a all School all teachers can be part of title one we've changed the way we've done those things so we've we've done all those things so it does feel again heartbreaking and regressive you're right because we've never 22 years I've been in this District we've never been in a position where the majority of our classrooms are around 20 never and so to go backwards and I you know knowing I know also what my job is um but to go backwards to now say like hey teachers I know this is a struggle already but now we're going to have class sizes of you know maybe 24 to 28 again in some places is just going to be it's going to be really challenging and very very you know and then to to continue with our progress it just makes it more challenging and you have the strange Dynamic of of postco because of the the mental health situation Y and um you gave us case studies yes and it's horrifying the case studies so from my perspective automatically before I do anything else I have to be in support of the crisis intervention because if you don't have Crisis Intervention in our schools it's going to impact the vast majority of students who are entitled to an education and what you alluded to is that the state and the federal government uh keep the localities in Al lurge regarding the migrant crisis we're not receiving any resources definitely not at the federal level and it seems like it's fewer and fewer resources from the state level to to handle the situation now we're if we're scrambling it should be an because you rely upon a budget of consistency reliability and if you were in the private sector or in the and the public sector you would consistency and reliability of a budget that you knew you would had grants entitlements automatic allocation of funds right and we that's a a nebula situation right now because we're scrambling to see if it can be resolved and it there's no set number on that now they're talking was like over the past two years or excuse me this year and going forward is going to be about $2 billion taken out of the state budget to handle that situation now that could be a low number and I don't think there's any resources from the federal government any uh Lifeboat to help us at the locality um so it it's something that um you look at postco with the mental health situation uh the the migrant situation and again whether you agree with it or disagree with it we have to deal with these children and it just it's something that I'm not be a person start attacking because we have to provide services to these these children and if you have one case of someone is traumatized from overseas coming here right and it cost us a half a million dollars right that circuit breaker account should not be 75% reimbursement should be 100% reimbursement because it's an unfunded mandate that's inflicted upon the local community so I mean we're going to go back and forth on on different uh scenarios and we're going to be offering amendments and making cutbacks and then the municipality is going to be dealing with contract negotiations reduce unrestricted uh local Aid the the situation Holy Family Hospital so they're in D Straits but just a recap I never seen in a full economy how much of a recessionary budget would deal dealing with right now and it's a massive disconnect thank you yep M I hate to ask this so bluntly but can you bottom line this for me for a million dollars how many staff positions are we talking about losing in the district for next year I could try to bottom line that for you it pains me to do it um we're probably talking and do I have Colleen here she behind me walked out she just walked in hi so it does depend on the position so miss McCarthy is behind me um I was just bluntly asked a million dollars would potentially be how many staff are we talking because we know we've already explained that for staff I also need a ratio of layoffs to cover unemployment without KN specific 25 to I was going to say 30 so that's a good that was a good guess so we're looking at laying off 30 potentially potentially 30 staff members for next year that's that's actually a potential we're looking at that and that's 100% yeah we're yeah so so like I said that from from what I said to you right this $1.7 Gap that we still $1.7 million gap that we still have about six or 700,000 of that calculated is with current open positions right so positions that are in the budget that either have not been filled or some folks have resigned or chosen to stay on leave and not come back right well that's why I asked for the million dollar not the 1.7 correct so so we are going to get down to that piece with the principles this week um and then again we're still a little bit off right um so yes we're talking about in my head I was going to say 30 which would be like a one to two I would just caution I would just caution right so you want to be careful of this juncture so this is not well it is tough difficult this is not an abnormal part of the process so I want to be very careful before we jump to the L word right uh we we've got we've got to have no options before we jump there yeah go ahead and Mr chairman too like like the uh superintendent alluded to is through through attrition we're going to have that would be the first uh mindset anyways and I would expect I can't speak for yourself Mr Mayor or the city council is that I I'm I'm hoping under the circumstances that the recent history of contributions will be above what it's been traditionally in the past I know fiscal year 22 was above a certain amount and there was another year that was above a certain amount this one is to okay so that I mean my perspective because I've served on the city council and I've served on the school committee is that I want is to be as rational honest fair budget as as possible but also with the reality of the situation is that you have taxpayers that will have to foot the bill absolutely so if had and I don't like they use the term wishless it's definitely was the superintendent was a needs y it was a justification for every position that was presented to us like for instance the secretaries are inundated logistically with paperwork requirements because of state and federal regulations and programs and entitlements plus they have to answer the phones and resolve situations so for instance in that case if we don't have maybe full-time additions maybe have some maybe part-time secretaries who are just recently retired that are collecting the pension and they can work up to a certain amount of hours that might alleviate some of the backlog but then it adds to the the budget y um but like again it's something that it it boggles the mind like why we are even presented with this because in the very least you say okay if the previous year was $8 million increase okay now it's going to be an $8 million increase but in future years you got to be prepared yep there was no preparation for this and again you're dealing with the full economy last time I checked it's still about what 3.2% in Massachusetts the unemployment rate so it's unheard of to be have to make cutbacks at the local government right and like you have indicated all through all your years of service and what the super superintendent because you had to write the ship is that you have the cafo you had State oversight you had your managerial background in the private sector we built up our cash reserves we reduced the interest rate on our debt we paid off debt so we've done everything possible to show to the state and we've also increased the test scores we've dealt with the headwinds of the mental health postco and also the migrant situation okay we've done everything possible and plus we still have class sizes at 20 uh pupils per class right which is a again something a success story and now that's going to be washed away because of what we have to deal with um and it's unfortunate but you know again I would not entertain any layoffs and I don't even think we're in that ballpack yet I would just say that for the record I would agree yep remember sh sorry the elephant in the room is where where making an educated guess we still have seven collective bargaining units that we need to get through so this is all kind of conjecture at this point absolutely so I mean with the best of intentions we we're we're hedging our bets here um we are except I have to have an approved budget by May seconds and have to be able to go through this process to give the city a budget for the school department so I'm I'm working off of what I know right so we're hedging a bet a little bit but at the same time I know what my numbers say now and I know I know what I have now and I know what salaries I have now so I'm a little I'm I'm I don't want to uh sugar coat this part I don't know how to get a million dollars out of this budget without having it be people I don't know how to do that I I I have done everything I can with with our team to make sure that we are looking at supplies District tuitions everything that I can on a weekly basis to adjust this budget I I don't know how next week I there's no I'm not sure unless the city number changes I don't know how I'm going to come to you and not say this is where we're cutting to get to $104 million I I I just don't know I I want to be really transparent and honest with all of you I don't want to lay off a soul I've been through it as a principal and a social principal I don't want to do it it's not good for the community it's not good for our kids it's not good for our staff we have been in such a good position and I appreciate member wette what you just said I think the mayor and I have done a lot of riding the ship and this is why this feels uh not good because we're in a position where we've we've taken the ship in the right direction and we still have a ways to go right nobody is saying that this District doesn't need more time and work and progress but if we don't commit which I know we have two lower class sizes the support staff adapting our practices to the fact that our students needs are changing that's what we're doing every single year with our strategy plan and everything else that we've been presenting I don't know how else to get to this number without telling you that it's going to lead to layoffs so so I just I want to be and nobody wants to say it I I have to say it cuz I I don't know how I'm going to get my team to that point next week I don't have right 75 80% of our budget is salaries I I don't know how to get to a million dollars right I can't cut every I can't cut all maintenance I can't cut you know I still have to run the district so there still has to be people and pro programs and materials and school supplies and you know both books in kids hands so I still have to do those things I I just I I don't I don't I want to be really honest and transparent about how to do it I guess the only thing I want to say so I appreciate that and I appreciate how difficult the position it is but I'm going to say this for the public there will be no increase in the city number there can't be so we are breaking the tax SPS as it is right it's difficult and we're losing people every single day who losing their houses right so there has to be some consideration given to the taxpayer in all the budgeting right not just the school budget in every part of the budget um but having said that so we did add we did add people through Grant positions you know i' I'd want you to tell me first what have we done with all the grant hires where are the grant hires gone so we we did that I get I get it executive sum so you know the number I get from from financially looking at the schools and the number I get from you guys is vastly different so I'm hearing a number of 42 people will hide with the S3 Grant right and I see colen shaking her head yes that is a far different number than what was presented in the school committee BBE right 42 people right 42 people is a significant number and I'm not trying to make this point cter point guys right I want to fight this out with you but I I I see where this is going to go um you know to me I appreciate your point but we're in that point every year just about every three years new to me yeah but every 3 years we we often are on the the precipice of of making a budget where we don't have signed CPS that is not new business right I I hate to put it that way but it it happens right and so we plan for it right and to your point does it have to be growth attributed absolutely do people deserve a fair and living wage absolutely right but if you know we've got to make sure that we're all on the same page about everything and so um you know I take a look at the the the grant funded HS heads that we cautioned that I'll turn to him because he was the only one here with me I think we cautioned and said let's be careful about hiring people in the grants because when the grant runs out now here you are right and so all I want to do is say we we got to put everything on the table and I'm going to go back to what I say you're not going to hear me say the LW until we absolutely have to say it right until we're forced to say it go let let me do go first because you talk um thank you Mr chair um I've just been hearing everybody talk and hearing the lward oh and you know for some of the members in the back of the room and the mayor and I we sat here literally May of wow it seems like so long ago 2020 it was something where we were in the same situation where I'm hearing the same thing and it was a much I think more devastating time because we didn't know what was going to happen but again that's what our jobs are for that's why I'm sitting here listening to everybody talk and say we understand um a million dollars is a lot of money but again as school committee members and I've also now talked to City councilman um that that is our job to be calling up our state reps calling up our Senators like we did during the co era and telling them look what you're about to do to us and I know everybody likes to be like well we got to be nice and we got to be nice to the ledge and you you could shake heads and say no well I'll make it public right now our Senators and our representatives are not doing their job because for us to be H in this situation where we are taking care of as M member wette would say we are taking care of other the people's problems right now and you know it's nice and dandy but when it's costing our taxpayers especially the elderly that have retired that have worked hard for their money and now are losing their homes that's unfair for them so I see I I'm at the point where I'm just being a realist and and I care about our staff I care about our kids but at the end of the day we are like the mayor said we cannot break the taxpayers back every single time that the state decides to hold money from us that's it like I just I sit here and I see all the pressure and it just reminds me of 2020 all over again I want so that was the point that was talk about this so we were considering playoffs in 2020 we we long thought on them and we did not right we thank God came up with a workable plan um and then the next year the SOA really kicked in to your point right and was a welcome relief um but I I absolutely agree with member duug we we have to keep pushing on our state government right right with 8.4 billion in the rad day fund right this is not the time to say no right um but you know having said that if all that does my my my perview is that we should look at the grant funded positions that we've kept you got to start there and I I don't want to start anywhere I don't want to lay off one head uh I've never laid off an employee in the city of methan I've laid off plenty of employees at Ron let me tell you it's no easy task to do right so um I think we got a a lot of work to do before we get to the LW I'll just keep saying the LW because I don't even like saying it right so remember belette thank you Mr chairman you raised some very valid points and I think the neighboring community of hail is dealing with 50% of their Co money was linked to personnel and to me that's onetime Revenue stream that you never do and I I attacked a prior mayor on that is that that person was using one-time revenue streams to balance the budget so we need to really get a verification of what you're saying because if hail was 50% it creates a massive structural deficit of using one-time revenue streams which you never should do so if we were doing that in methan I would have been against it 100% because it's my history of having honest budgeting but I want to let let the report be furnished to us and I think you raised the valid point just like member shilia is that if we're looking like again at supplies versus Personnel or Transportation versus Personnel or Grant positions versus uh mainstream personnel yeah right um like I said before the the biggest addition I want to see is the crisis intervention because it's it's meritorious I agree other than that if the libraries have to suffer so to speak or we have to work on an alternative plan that you alluded to and explore that that's something but if it's like I said before and I've said it in uh separate meetings if we need to have a Bare Bones budget and if that wakes up the interested parties of because I've had maybe two people approach me about the budget and I shared the letter that I drafted that we approved we did a resolution to this the state delegation we did a budget letter to the state delegation I sent emails and I made calls to them yeah right I've had maybe two constituents approach me about the budget and I don't know why the leadership is waiting until the last second and focus on other things focus on Beacon Hill yeah and meago again um the tenacity I I approach him and I say yeah be tenacious of making be respectful yes but be tenacious in approaching the Beacon Hill because the house budget um with the ways and means did not help methan the Amendments I know I spoke to representative Hamilton after the audit joint uh meeting with the city council he said there was an amendment that would help the Gateway communities I know Chelsea is circulating the letter yep but with Chelsea right the the leadership of a union was attached to supporting that letter yeah and I'm not hearing it from the leadership of our unions that their direct jobs are going to be impacted because because of the state budget so you still have the under consideration the amendments with the the house side the Senate will take up amendments and then anything that's reconciled in the conference uh committee and then also the Governor might have a line item veto that you have to override yep so it's still a fluid situation but please stop making calls because I I'll answer the call yeah and I'll tell you the reality and I'm again I'm fiscally conservative you vote for me or you don't vote for me that's that's fine that's who I've been for 13 years because I live in a community that I know the seniors live paycheck to paycheck yeah I know there's a lot of poor families in methan y and the poverty numbers reflect that in the presentation from the superintendent they do right you have Holy Family Hospital if that closes the the massive economic downturn in in this community I I don't really want to well we that we've already backed the revenue out of the fy2 plan so and I I think you've been you again you're being honest with with us I have to Advocate I'm a school Committee Member but In fairness of super I want to clarify so I don't perceive our problem anywhere near as significant as what hail did right no but I mean it just again like that was hail I'm not even digesting all 42 of those positions be laid off I don't want to be misquoted all I'm saying is we've got to roll up our sleeves here we got some tough decisions to make and then if the 42 number is correct that to me would be the starting point so where are those people what are they doing and then we as a committee make a decision can we can we afford to keep them or not so I can answer that question because in the in the executive summary in one of the bullets I specifically address Sr 3 because of the question that you asked the last time um there are two I outlined it in the last bullet on the second page in the S 3 funds we specifically didn't put professional sum they were temporary professional staff in S3 for the exact reason you're talking about because a lot of other districts did that and we didn't want to do that so there are only two professional staff teaching positions that did roll back over because of class size we kept them in the budget there are two uh two teaching positions uh at the timy I believe that we kept in the operating budget from Esser the 42 number that the mayor's referring to is we had half of our so so when covid hit us we went from we moved from day-to-day Subs to building based Educators so that we could have consistent staff in the building who knew the routines we weren't having people come in and out right a lot of districts switched from coland people who could work on Tuesdays and Thursdays to just having nine or 10 people in the building who could actually be there and substitute and be part of the staff and that has actually worked out very well for us so we've maintained that two years ago we had all of the the um salaries for the bbes and the buildings in our Esser funds this past year we split it with the operating budget so we now have put the substitute line back in our operating budget so when you're talking about PE that's a hard one because that's not professional staff there are two professional staff that are back in the operating budget the other person I talk about in this bullet specifically is the director of facilities we hire him in uh sr3 because we had earmarked $300,000 in sr3 3 years ago for somebody to be the project manager to oversee the construction projects that was there was a lot of um one-time projects that were happening with those funds and so we used that money to pay his salary I have been transparent about that since the moment we did that that it didn't make sense to hire somebody new for 3 years to do that who didn't know our district right so we we had Bruce be the project manager he's the director of facilities because he knows what he's doing um and that salary would have to go back when that ended on September 30th and so that those are the two teachers and Bruce Stella the program assistants that we eliminated they were 12 program assistants right and we had those in sr2 again super transparent we said those were going to be 2-year positions right the state recommended we put in positions that could help raise those reading scores help raise uh what was going on with the with the instructional deficits from from covid um so we ended up moving those positions for one more year we thought they needed one more chance uh so we put them in Sesser 3 everybody knew all the people in those positions knew that there was going to be one more year those people haven't been laid off their positions have been eliminated but we have plenty of open program assistance positions so everybody will have a position in the district who was in one of those literacy positions so I just I get what you're saying about the 42 cuz payroll looks different uh because there's people in those but you're talking about the substitute line the BBE that we split the cost during covid and now those we've we've we have substitute lines now in all the buildings we're going to keep the BBE model because we think that works really well to have somebody who actually knows the building and the kids and the staff um but as far as profession staff that is outlined here on this this bullet um exactly what we did so I would just re Ian sit with the CAO and work through that so that she's on the same page perfect right now she's not perect we will happily do that yeah perfect hang on a second did you have something my my head was turned I couldn't tell if you were no okay sorry remember so to piggy back from um at one point um but for for the fact that uh uh member talked about I think Chelsea had a um Chelsea had a teachers um yeah school committee and teachers unit if I'm correct yeah they signed on all right so did what so what I'm asking because there are members of the Union in the back here yeah I'm asking and I'm hoping the rest of this membership will say can you sign onto our letter in support of that or bring that back to your leadership and because we would be happy to have that support especially from my teachers um you guys are important to us too and the fact that if one Community is doing it um I I I'm asking but I'm hoping the rest of these committee will ask for I'm not going to speak on behalf of all of you but for me please sign on to the letter um I'll be be happy to share I don't you know I think I know what you're asking I think the people behind me probably don't know what we're talking about because they haven't seen it but I'll be happy to share with the Union Officers yep of all of what we're talking about yep that's yep yeah ke first sorry issues so when my oldest was in kindergarten um class sizes were 34 and that was horrifying CGS mhm there was 34 students in that kindergarten class Y and when my second one came in we were still around 30 and my kids can read but given the different Dynamics I would not want to see a class size over 25 so I guess when you're asking for direction yeah perfect I would say I don't want to see class size over 25 because I know what those class sizes look like and 34 kindergarteners was unbelievable you had kids every where there was no room to move it was it was terrible so I would say I would not want to see a class size over 25 especially in the younger grades thank you thank you I'd like to back you up on that member Keagan obviously you sent earlier that you if you had to make these cuts and I don't hope they don't happen you'd start in the upper schools um but I I hope we can start the discussion now on there are some proposals still on the table um that were that have not officially been removed from the budget correct including things that will impact I think the day-to-day life of the schools specifically how to support behaviors and I I think it's an important discussion we really need to get to now I think we all agree nobody wants the layoffs nobody we''ve all I've been able to see the difference when class sizes are reduced um we're dealing with some behavioral problems now if you get some kids in more crowded classrooms I can only imagine that some of those behaviors are going to escalate so we I think we as a team need to make some really important decisions like yes there has to be hopefully not that LW but we have to add something we have to add a few things I believe to keep our school safe I mean that's the priority obviously ask anyone what's the first thing for a school it need kids need to feel safe staff needs to feel safe but I I hope we can start this discussion now about what is still on the table I'm on okay well here we go so um okay if I had known I would have prepared a dance and a song Good Transit thank you for the segue here we go so on the table one thing I would like to discuss we talked about it briefly last week um what the two proposals for two schools two very different proposals I've been giving it a lot of thought um and I do believe one of our priorities needs to be how to support oh I think we have two priorities in my world safety and literacy and I think we don't think enough about how they go hand inand because kids who can read and feel good about themselves and not lost in the class tend to be behave better right so the literacy piece if anyone's out there with a million dollars just think of the reading never know who might be listening tonight you never know just think of the reading interventionist the the work that can be continued because I don't think this budget because of the limitations we're facing as everyone has pointed out has addressed what more we can do with liter to improve literacy rates I don't but this is the real world so let's begin with the presentations U the suggestions on how we can support students and staff and family so member wette mentioned that um he supported the addition of the crisis counselors so that would be the proposal for the CGS in Marsh and then the Riz which would be a little different model for the timy and tenny and I think it's something that we we need to do something to support the behaviors and when you look at those um case studies it's what it is when you have administrators spending hours investigating it means they're not going into the classrooms to provide the academic backup to do the evaluations and observ you know even the informal observations to be present um there's just so many things that aren't being done because they're being they're stuck dealing with problems so how do I I think I tallied it up it's over $300,000 does that sound about right even with the freebies involved yeah so the so the 72,000 you're you're close yeah um so uh the two the two um Crisis Intervention staff that we're looking for at the marsh are singular one for the marsh one for the CGS um and we have certain uh salaries that we've earmarked for those folks and and for th those positions and the risk positions we're not looking at Unit A people so these are unaffiliated these are unaffiliated and let me explain why okay right because we're looking at staff who we're not talking about prep periods and duties right we need them to be on and we also need them to be able to potentially serve and support after contractual hours right when we have students might be kids are in a space and they need uh supervision until parents arrive yeah right and so uh we need some we have some staff in the district who are unaffiliated um who have this level of flexibility for us uh that we can call upon them for those crisis situ I can't predict when that's I can't give somebody like that a schedule I think that's the hard part right I can't give and say on a day-to-day week- toe basis here's your schedule because that's not the purpose of these positions and the support that they're going to give so we are looking at a little bit of a different situation we have a crisis interventionist at the timy already but that's part of the program it is part of the choices program and that's where we've modeled this from the the the CGS and the March have modeled the the need and the um I'm sorry the job description from it is a little different but but that person is unaffiliated uh has a social work background experience not necessarily in a school but has that experience working with children in a different setting it works really well right so we've seen it be really successful um and again that person's schedule is not stagnant and and scheduled right on a day-to-day basis so it really works for the school and and she's able to support not only the students but the teachers right to support the students re-entry back in you know I think that's a that's a part too I know that miss pretti and miss Gordon spoke a lot about certainly with with me when we were going through through this process um and a little bit here with you all is there's got to be some right now there's just not enough time and understanding for that connection and communication students are going back to class after an a a crisis right and the the teacher is not quite sure what has happened right people are on to the next Crisis so that person's occupied there's just there's not that level of of uh communication that I think these positions will help with that was a big big uh point that I know all four of them were really trying to make is that communication back into the classroom with the connection with the teacher right and the administrators again there's one for you know 60 teachers and 700 kids at the Tenny and timy those are those are challenging numbers to make sure we're connecting and getting that communication and strategies with so that was part of it um a pretty big part of it actually too is to make sure that they're there to respond but that they can also bridge that support with the teacher when the student comes back what was the what what precipitated that event or or you know like what are those strategies we can put in place so that's where we have found it being very successful at the Tim so I just have a couple of follow-up questions and a comment okay and then I certainly want to hear what everyone else thinks um so one of the positions one of the schools we would get a deal correct we would not be paying for um the program assistance and we would not at the CGS brigh would be paying the program help me help me out to make sure I get it would be paying for the program assistance for three years okay and a staff member currently there would be doing have um her foot in Two Worlds almost working with a program and servicing Lo y okay is that accurate did I get that right that is accurate so I want to so now we're talking about crisis and RIS are completely over here and we have the bright pilot program at the CGS bright exists here at the high school already and we're trying to figure out what that need is and what it looks like at the grammar schools Mr Crocker's here to add anything that I miss because he's the one that worked with Miss pretti and went to the sites and tried to figure out uh what this this could look like at the grammar schools for support um and again the this the setting that we have at the CGS makes that the most um adaptable right now to Pilot this and figure out if this is something that our district is it going to work in elementary and middle school here in methan uh or is it not uh and we need we need there are a significant number of students who need um some significant supports who uh as I know I shared with you I think Miss pretti did as well um we are just we're seeing those students in especially the upper schools you know is where we're focused a little bit who are being hospitalized who that wasn't typical in the past and are just walking back into school the next day after being you know hospitalized for mental health issues um and walking back into a an environment with a thousand students in a building and we just don't have that bridge and so with the high school we call it the bridge program but we just don't have that opportunity to re acclimate a student back in and get to know what they need um and so that that really was the the pressing issue here where we started to talk about this at our CST meetings with the associate principles and principales if I could just add a point of clarification the role you're describing is the definition of an adjustment counselor so we're calling it a crisis interventionist but it is the school adjustment counselor that we've been talking about for the last three four meetings it's it's textbook definition the same thing so the bright program isn't though right no but the crisis interventionist is okay we got I know we things yeah and I think we put that on there a crisis interventionist could have an adjustment counselor background a licensed social worker the the current one that that we have at the timy I think is a licensed social worker has that experience I think the difference is that and we we have some I know Mr Crocker um provided you all with some information you know we have staff in each building who have those licenses they're all in Unit A and act as school counselors and actually serve as students right so uh they are serving in a little bit of a different role than me saying to them they're a crisis interventionist now very different role than what I expect them to do as a school counselor so we do have some with it that license 100% sorry I don't want anytime Mr shilia so what so the Dilemma is we have a real need to support challenging behaviors kids in crisis the teachers who are dealing with it and the students who've been exposed to some naughty behaviors or whatever right so how do we balance we have so here's an additional cost and I truly believe we need it so now we're we're just adding to the amount of money that we're worried about I'd be Cur I certainly would support this after a lot of thought and I don't want to beat the dead horse but I do have some concerns that two schools yes when you read the description at the timoy and tenny There's an opportunity for in school suspension um and you think I think those are incredibly effective with the right staff in place um because you the students would be learning they'd be you know here's your work get to it teachers are in the building in the old days they'd pop in to make sure the kids were working to not have that opportunity at the other schools does concern me but I certainly would trust the decisions of the people who are in the thick of it but if this come back if this comes back to bite us I just want to be able to say I told you so but this is I think it's time for us to address what's going on in the schools yeah and I would be interested to see what everyone else yeah and if I could just comment I think I think that point is so well taken you mentioned that briefly but you mentioned it at the first meeting um and it is challenging right I set I set a task to the principles last summer to say we know this is a challenge you have to give us the data the information I'm not going to sit in front of a school committee and advocate for something I know we need something but I'm not going to dictate what you need at the high school what you need at the CGS because every school does have a very different Dynamic right they all of our schools we provide the same things but the schools are different size alone right size number of classrooms how many kids are in a cafeteria right we've got different challenges at each of the four schools different programming I mean that alone right so you have one school that has newcomers not a lot of English-speaking kids coming in you have sub separate classrooms in schools you you just you have a lot of different Dynamics in the schools and I think you know I told the principles to be very clear about what they were asking for and why where was their priority and I I don't want to miss and I I they would be very upset because they're like we want it all but I get what you're asking okay right because I think every school would like all of these things yeah so I'm sure that if I said to Mr Hill how do you feel about a crisis interventionist he'd be like that's a good idea right but when we looked at the big picture and I really tasked them to what is the PRI what is taking the most amount of time what is the most support you need for your students and your staff this is where they landed and I honestly didn't even think they were going to land I didn't even think two schools would land in a similar place and two schools in a similar place so that's sort of remarkable to me that that's kind of where this when they we all started talking about where their priorities were right and so um I I get that I have lived in the world of meuman where everything has to be consistent and the same and I you know right now I it's part of me feels like we have to live in that uncomfortable place of right now I'm not sure we can do all of it all at once in every place so so is it better to have it in two schools and see if it works and provide that opportunity at the Tenny and timy let's see what the tier 2 looks like how does the crisis intervention look not assigned to a special education program how does that Crisis Intervention work at the CGS in the marsh see how that works come back to the table and say we do this is awesome right this actually really worked and now I have more information dated to share to say we need this in all schools and that's a next year plan I have to be comfortable with that you have to be comfortable with that it's a it's a it is a dance and I recognized that Miss Donovan that that this is a place that we don't feel super comfortable in but at the same time this is also what the principal said they need okay as a priority if there's a chance that they could have it all they're going to want it they're going to want both right and so I think there's also Al an opportunity here uh what you just said and this is the principles are going to be ready for this Friday when they meet with me is how badly do you need this right because are we ready to repurpose and pull people that we already have to make this happen and if we are we're losing something to gain something but is that a priority that we think we can work with that's a question I can't answer tonight for you but that's a question I'm going to be asking the principal Friday I think that's a terrific question to ask especially with the concerns I do too I I really I'm looking forward to see your responses and while I have the floor and then I'll stop um I do think there's also opportunities and I know it's been discussed for alter you know across the board a Saturday detention program 100% uh they do it at the high school but um it wouldn't cost a lot it would be something off of to all the schools not not that you want to disrupt people's Saturdays but sometimes it's it's a good way to it's a good learning opportunity so that said I'd be curious to see what the rest of the board felt about this and you know how we're going to find the money for it but thinking in that way how can we repurpose or what can we give up we have to reshift half half whole I mean I just I that's where you know that we're going to have a very creative conversation on Friday about all of this right because we're going to lose things things but there are some things we need cuz if I lose everything we're not going to make any progress and that's not you know we can't be in that position either um so so how are we going to make this work but also still help us progress and adapt to what we're looking at and faced with today which is very different than what we might have been faced with 5 years ago I have to agree with what member Donovan is saying um I think the the behavior management is a key piece to getting learning going in the class rooms um I feel like we also have laws that tell us that we have to do stuff before we do out of school suspensions and I don't feel that we have the capacity in any of the schools right now to be following those laws and I'm very concerned that we don't have anything in place to to discipline the sides out of dis out of school suspensions and so I feel like the timy and tenny model give us that opportunity to have in school suspensions and do things before we do the out of school suspensions and I want to know how the CGS in marsh plan to follow the law of not having out of school suspensions as our default discipline because I'm very concerned that having it in two schools while we're following laws in two schools we're not doing it the other schools so I want to make sure that we're following the law for that suspension law in all of the schools because I don't feel like we're doing it very well right now fair enough Y and I do think that member Donovan to your point that there has been conversation not just this year about how how can we do things a little differently uh like we have provided we have built on those programs at the high school the Saturday detentions right we've done things so that it doesn't disrupt the school day might disrupt the student in the family right but it it doesn't take away from them missing school and being in the academics especially when the infraction doesn't match needing to be out of the classroom right and so um we are thinking about what that could look like for the grammar schools just one Collective Saturday detention for all four schools you don't need it at every school and have rotating staff and then it's not as daunting you know for the staff that might support that but how do you do that what does it look like how much does that cost I think those are convers ations that we have to dig into a little bit mug thank you Mr chair so coming from an Educator's perspective um I love this idea um I'm in Lawrence we have in school suspension um it helps us as teachers especially if we're dealing with someone inside the classroom um that is being very disruptive that in in housee especially at my school it's not just like okay you're going to in-house suspension it's more of a cooling off room per se like you go there you sit there yeah like a time out timeout like a timeout perspective and then once that kid is disengaged like is is disengaged whatever uh the environment he is in or she is in um that gets the counselors to be able to go in one room principals could go into one room depends on how you want to work it U but also the thing is as an educator that is a great PL like it's a great um it's word I'm looking for it's a great alternative when you can't deescalate it inside the classroom the attitude is we're here to teach that let's get that person out of the room so it's not disrupting the the other 20 students in there so as member Don was probably going to know that I was going to support this so um so yes I absolutely do thank you um so member sh you go ahead so since we're talking about the guidance Department I guess I mean Dr Kong you had said something earlier about adapting our Str I even wrote it down adapting our strategies as our students needs are changing and going through the packet that was produced and looking at what we have as an allocation of Staff whether they be school counselors adjustment counselors or um School Psych in our buildings I I can't help but question uh member wet's earlier Point saying you know we we have to support the crisis interventionists on one side I 100% agree with that because that person comes with the ability to deescalate to manage those crisises to see see those problems through from a more clinical perspective but then the first question that comes to me is I mean are we are we expecting our current school counselors to also deescalate those same situations and if so why do we need another one or is it just because we're short staffed which I know is a general answer for every question but yes we are short staffed I I get that no those that's a really good question so I can start to answer that I'll start with that can start to answer that and if Mr Crocker wants to add anything but um you know it's it's what's they they have the skills to do it the concern is we have we do have so many kids that are receiving Direct Services from our school counselors that you see on this piece of paper that when when a student is in crisis and I remove that counselor who now has a service delivery schedule and and I remove that counselor for Crisis Intervention right who now is part of a situation where the student is in crisis and we struggle with the the this is the other part that is very real we struggle with the counselor knows how to deescalate typically with a student they've worked with but when that doesn't work and it becomes more of an administrative situation and you're talking about restraints and you're talking about possible discipline I mean there's a whole bunch of things that go into this now right now you're looking at somebody who's supposed to be the person who that student goes to for that um and I'm I'm losing the I need to find the word but the they go to that person to be their safe person and they associate that person now when they're in a disregulated state can also be challenging so I fully agree that so we're challenged by a lot of should never be restraining you because that's going to make for an award Dynamic right yeah right um our bcbas though I do want to say because we haven't talked about them a lot but the bcba the behavior the board certified behavior analyst right we have at least one bcba in every building that person is is incredibly skilled de-escalating restraining right being the person who can to that's their training that's their they actually are incredibly trained to understand what the antecedent is right what the kids need to to not escalate how to deescalate uh they're pretty critical and play critical roles in the buildings um they typically are the first response to a crisis but can't be the only person who responds right and so it's it's a it's a balance of who is the right person to respond so we're not losing that relationship that the guidance counselor has with the student losing the I don't know 12 to 20 kids that that guidance counsel now has to send back to class because they're dealing with a crisis for three hours with one of the principles do it's it's that where we get then we get stuck in this like oh my God now we're in this gray area of the counsel saying am I going to respond to crisis or am I supposed to service these kids because now I feel like I'm not doing my job because I'm supposed to service these kids and that's part of my required responsibility so it's it's not that they can't and it's not that they aren't we are struggling with the fact that they have a very structured case load and when we remove them from that for a crisis that can happen whenever um with whomever uh it becomes a a challenge it becomes a challenge I don't know I don't know if I answered your question well enough or so yes yes and no I mean but my understanding is using mcast as a recent example example some of those folks who are assigned to mcast duty be it proctoring uh hallways bodyguards and bathrooms all that stuff um I assume the crisises don't stop for mcast no right right um the the other caveat for me is well first and foremost I want to say that I've gotten some feedback over the last two weeks that it appears that this is a Witch Hunt for guidance which oh I I have't it's no not from you oh no me oh you I'm like what do you I don't even know what you're alluding to no I I have I got a message from someone who I I didn't know who said it appeared that this was a a Witch Hunt that I was out to get someone or whatever it may be you you know you know how it goes um but I just I want to I want to State because I've heard he I heard that and this for me is more of a how do we provide the best service to students which I know I know John agrees with I know that that's all of our goals everyone in this room right now so I just especially now we're facing an economic conundrum and I I want to see you know not that these people are good these people are bad because I know from talking to several of them across the district that I know personally what they're doing on a daily basis and how they survive yeah and how some days are better than others right but I just I I want to understand so like I guess Mr Crocker sent you graciously at the podium yes going through your chart here about all the folks which was fantastic thank you I noticed that there are some folks on here that have clinical licenses whether they be Li LC or otherwise mhm to maintain those licenses they need supervision how are we providing that so you bring up a really good point and those are I I want to be clear that the licenses outlined on that chart are Desi licenses we did not outline lcsws lmhc those are School social worker roles that is a license maintained through Desi but we have they they may have they may have and I think you're correct here knowing some the people in the community they might have an LCSW some that is not maintained through this District that is maintained privately do you see that as an asset to our district it very well could be I think it's worth explaining because I very much appreciate the question that you've brought up and it's a question I wish a lot of other districts have brought up quite frankly because we have created a staffing model here that is really unlike many and there's a reason why I think there's an impression and and I I get why that impression would be that how come why do we have these roles that are seemingly not clinical versus other roles that could be way more clinical I get that because there are a lot of communities that actually are haven't updated their Staffing model in 203 years the term guidance counselor because it's pet peeve of mine friends um that went out of fashion in 1990 no joke that's when ASA the American School coun Association said stop using the term guidance counselor it's confusing for people so I think that there's a public impression of what these people do that is that has fueled a lot of misconception and on top of that we've got these Staffing model changes that haven't happened in districts for again 20 30 years we've fully realized these roles we have looked at the subject matter knowledge requirements of these roles the changes in education training professional development the changes in the state regulations and we've said we're going to use these clinical roles in a clinical fashion we're we're going to fully realize and and leverage these roles so I think when you take a hard look at these these charts these and not the I'm not talking about like the list of Staff but the state regs the smks the training programs the professional organizations across the state that have all come together and said hey there's confusion we need to do away with that confusion all of these roles can do clinical work so that I would just offer a thanks for raising that because ultimately it's a it's a a very unfortunate situation in most districts because they are failing to leverage Master's level clinicians to do work in schools when they already have them hired so with so I agree with that and I fully acknowledge and I think it goes in any field just because someone has a license does not make them good at what they do that's fair that's yeah every time um but looking at the posting for the crisis interventionist you have Li LC lmh physical uh clinical psych how do we intend to hire one of those roles to fill this crisis interventionist if we can't provide them the ability to maintain their license I think it's a fair question and I it would be something that would have to be grappled with and I will offer and I'm this is this is a a statement make uh around that the definition of that role to superintendent's point it is not that any of these roles that we currently hire cannot do the crisis work it is that we're asking that person to do just that only that all day long and that that's a difference that that is a different kind of role so I do not want to paint a picture where uh these other licenses can't do that um there was a desire for that to to be the license outlined in that title but um it could it could be the case that another in my in my opinion there's there are other licenses that could fill that role for sure um but I I think you bring up a a point that needs to be considered if that person is going to maintain their license as a private license or rather a community- based license the the maintenance of that license would have to uh be conducted on a private uh basis so in the packet there was the question about Crisis Intervention um courtesy of member Donovan I got some history on the MCI relationship that we had in the past uh as I'm sure you're aware that recently went a massive un overhaul at the state massive they they changed everything which the state tends to do every you know five to 10 years um but what I didn't see in there was kind of the utilization aspect are you are you fre reaching out to I believe it's Le's our partner yeah Beth Beth Israel Ley whoever they they've changed their name 18 times 48 times yeah um are you reaching out to them are they responding within I think it's is it 60 or 90 minutes there I mean are we tracking that are we reporting it because I know that they're held to a contract standard on that they definitely are and and I'll say this we have used whatever version of mobile crisis has existed because to your point it's changed quite a bit over my time here we've used them consistently forever and that has changed quite a bit we sometimes wait hours we sometimes are given the phone call at 3:00 saying never mind we're not coming that's just the reality that we faced over the the many years now that's not to say that I don't want to lean into the use of MCI I think that it's a phenomenal service I think that they are unbelievably overwhelmed because they're not attached to methan they're attached to the region right so they're responding to schools across several different communities and the I I will say the rate at which we have staff responding to crisis far out strips mci's capacity I will leverage them for all their worth wonderful partner and it's not enough so no it'll never be enough it will never be enough so I have to tag in Holy Family Lawrence General I have to tag in other uh providers that are associated with maybe a students uh uh community- based therapist that they're they're seeing and have a warm handoff to that provider these are we are we're doing everything possible to cover all these crises so I take your your call out that gez why aren't we using M we definitely are we're using them for all their worth and it's it's just not going to be enough but I'll I'll continue to leverage that relationship I actually had a conversation with their uh with their I believe it was their director maybe two weeks ago just to find out what their update was um and not just on the MCI side of the equation but you know it's it's our community behavioral health center they have a lot of services and we can route things there um again we're going to use carols we're going to use cartwheel we are going to leverage our internal staff which um I did provide some data there pre-spring screening one in five kids in this District were receiving some degree of Behavioral Health Care that's outrageous that's a lot so I I just want to be real about that that I love our community based providers and it's not enough so we I I'm I'm on board with you we'll leverage them for all their worth so I mean I guess in closing because I could go on but I won't um I in my vision of my perfect world that I've created in my head that no one else lives in apparently somebody does um I see the adapting our strategies to our students needs as they change as it becoming a much more clinical mindset unfortunately given everything our students are facing in the world as they are you know walking through our doors in the morning and I guess I just I would I would push for consideration of how do we better best utilize the LI the clinical licensed folks to address those needs and as we continue to evolve and face the unfortunate questions we're going to face over the next six four weeks whatever it may be I I I appreciate that and um two I want to make sure that um that there's a a very clear understanding that we appreciate I appreciate daily the reality that having a clinical mindset in these roles has to be the priority it just has to be and we've invested time energy professional development training MH clinical supervision constantly um to these roles again to fully realize what they can do because these training programs have changed these roles have changed um you made a comment at a previous meeting that I I really appreciated like no it was it was a good one just about this like I don't remember this being the kind of role that a counselor would fill in a school it didn't seem like it was like that and you're right it wasn't like that um long ago that's just not the case um these roles have changed dramatically and unfortun Ely the public hasn't kept up with that change we still see the 1970s version of what guidance counselors do that's not the role of a school counselor school adjustment counselor school social worker these are clinical roles so I'm with you we have to leverage these mental health staff these Master Level clinicians for all their worth and I think we need to honor that they are able to do that work and I'll say from a Statewide standpoint gez what if every District honored what these Master's level mental health staff could do I think that would go a long way to addressing the youth Mental Health crisis and I think if as a state we put that emphasis on we wouldn't be facing a national shortage sure sure thank you I just want to add one thing so and not really for you John so go back to member dunans so you know oddly enough I support right I just would want to have a discussion around what benefit does a provider on the back end so if you've got a crisis counselor um and Grant that it's a small supplement here right what benefit to the administrator to the classroom teacher what and I know I'm going to so if if it provides the classroom teacher with x amount less you know problematic behavior let's say does that mean we could go to 21 or 22 kids in a class I don't know and and I'm I'm not suggesting we do that all I'm saying is there's a lot of work to be done here in the next two weeks before we get to that discussion I would not want to you know and I think John knows this I would not want to cut anything mental health related right you know so you ask priorities for me I think you know what they are it's mental health and then it's classroom teachers right and then everything else is viewed after that fact right and unfortunately that even includes administrators you know administrative staff ratios and things like that but I think you know some of the things that we're doing doing we've got to step back and take a look at them like I said and say okay here's the benefit that a a crisis council is going to provide here here's the Yoke it's going to lift off whether it's the classroom teacher or the administrator in the building right so okay um are there other things that that individual could support or they you know the maxed out so there has to just be to me a conscientious discussion of what does it provide right and so I I love that he said you know let's come back and discuss this quarterly or whatever uh I would definitely want to be seen that right I totally agree with you I think too like how do we gather the information to find out whether or not this is successful what kind of data can you provide I'm not quite sure looking at these I'm well I'm sure we could come up with something I'm sure like how many disruptions yeah oh good yeah absolutely and so because there's just we're doing the same thing in the police department simar so um we've got uh through a grant uh We've obtained I think it's three Crisis Intervention councilors a CIT team right that are working with the police officer and responding to the calls now they're not they haven't started that yet but that's the goal to get there um and you know in the back end we're going to take a hard look at that and say so how does that help us you know Staffing and police wise right so um but and I want to give you some level of comfort this is not even though it's it's hard for us to wrap our heads around this is not unique in the city right and so I give you the I give you the case of the fire department so in the fire department we have not added a head since I've been mayor not one head uh we are now at a crisis point where we um by law uh subject to Mutual Aid we have to send ambulances to other cities um and we are now finding ourselves in a situation frequently where we need a fourth ambulance we have three full-time ambulance Crews the crew is two people um and we had an incident the other day thank god it worked out for the best where we thought a g was having a heart attack at marac Valley Golf Course and we did not have an ambulance free to get him so uh all our firefighters are EMT certified we sent a truck down there and they started treating them but it took the ambulance 20 minutes to get there because it was in Lawrence on Mutual a right and when I say all three ambulances were elsewhere right one was in methu doing a job one was in andiva doing a job one was in Lawrence doing a job and so um you know we're trying to look at the fire department the same way and say h how do we address this right because by law we can't say no right it again it's it's really an unfunded mandate when you look at it right um and so I just I'm trying to because I what I don't want is people walking around this this layoffs coming I'm not there and it's going to take a lot for me to get to the LW you know I I like to use that better um because I just I just think we haven't we haven't you know lifted every stone and looked at everything we need to look at yet and I I know that's harsh uh but the same thing goes through on the city Side you know the only Department we added heads to other than monal public schools last year was the health and human services and I mean I'd defy anybody you know John and I talk about a lot that was absolutely P of two heads right to address some of the issues going on in the city with our homeless with our addiction with all of that stuff right um so I'm still relatively confident we can get there I I don't want to alarm the masss tonight and have everybody walking out saying this layoff is coming pink slip's coming because we're we're negotiating in good faith and I I don't see that in the often right so I just want to be sure yes member Willet just very briefly because we've been circling around but uh three deal breakers for me on the budget one is user fees I will not entertain that uh removal of school resource offices I will not entertain that that and thirdly if there's any uh elimination of the crisis intervention uh Proposal with the additions those are three uh deal breakers I will not vote for a budget yeah because the crisis intervention is so Paramount we can talk about the the metrics we can talk about the data collection yeah but if we don't do this what's the sense of us talking about discipline meeting after meeting after meeting so that's I understand about the other portions of the budget I dealt with that over the years and to me at times is cost heavy can you expand on the user fees while you're talking you said user fees I'm not interested in user fees I've never been in favor at all no okay so like I mean again I know we're talking about a compromise tonight but any new user fees yeah like entertained at other communities they do user fees for like you suggest any no I think I I'm hearing you yeah you don't want me to come back next Thursday and say hey a way we can offet it is by adding I got it and I don't think anybody's even talking about removing school resource officers but I tell you in conjunction with the three deal breakers for myself on the budget is the crisis intervention I want that don't remove the school resource offices and not have user Fe other than that I can I can work with other parties and the only thing I'd ask you to do is expand your SRO right say School safety when you say SRO because there's more to it than just the sro's right so there's some things we're going to come to you yet that the superintendent and I have discussed with the police chief uh that we know we we really we believe we need to do collectively I'll say it that way right um and so um it goes beyond sro's but it's it's it's still allow us to sleep at night and not be worried about that eventuality so um I don't know if that fits or not you can still say the SRO I think it's under Public Safety that's that's the uh you know y I would I understand what your Public Safety Y no user fees and we need the crisis intervention got it that's in a nutshell thank you yep member Dole did you have something that I missed you or no okay I don't know if anybody else want to weigh in mayor do you need to acknowledge that M Maxwell has joed remely so any votes Martha from here on will have to be roll call hello member Maxwell how are you we got a wave I'm doing well all right that cough earlier not withstanding we heard your cough I'm so sorry yeah you poor thing all right anybody else want to weigh in before you good Dad I'm good okay all right okay I we have our work cut out for us you know we'll come back on uh Thursday May 2nd and we'll have sort of another adjustment right so basically this memo that you see I basically move it down We'll add this is what we've done since a new chart uh and see where we land on Thursday to get closer to that that number um you know I I do we'll see how next Thursday goes yeah you know our timeline is tight tighter actually this year the city I think is doing the public hearings the last week of May we always have to do our approval and we have regulations about how many days we have to post it publicly in the media um for our final number so that May 13th meeting uh we I do need to we do need to have a conversation for a final budget so that we can present it post it and then have it printed and ready for the public hearing and the vote and then to get the binders to the city as well so it's tight um but if we need you know we'll we'll determine next Thursday uh if there is a need for another special meeting with one agenda item we'll we'll do what we can to get that in there whether it's before the 13th right after you know I may have a day or two I can play with but uh the cafo has already set the um budget hearings at the city so I really I have to to meet that deadline as well yep so we'll work through that okay okay thank you yeah appreciate it uh moving on may have a motion in a second to approve the MHS parking protocols so move second move by member shilia seconded by member uh wette discussion member wette very quickly I just want to say thank you to the members for working on a compromise obviously there was some members that wanted a total elimination of the parking me but working in coner in terms of a compromise I'm advocating for that at this point thank you appreciate it anybody else okay Matha roll call it up Ryan daglio yes may Beth Donovan Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell no Daniel shabila yes Kenneth yes Mary Beth Donovan yes may Neil Perry yes the motion carries yes nice job M Del on the way by okay uh may have a motion in a second to approve the 20124 2025 school committee calendar so moved moved by member wette second seconded by member discussion he seeing none roll call vote Ryan daglio yes may Beth dunivan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes may an Neil Perry yes unanimous motion carries unanimously thank you may I have a motion and second to approve the 2024 2025 school calendar which I believe is being distributed as we speak speak so moved move by member wette second seconded by Vice chair Keegan uh discussion so I can I just tell you what I'm passing out just so you know so um the calendar that you have here is typically how we have done the calendar it's a little cumbersome and challenging and doesn't print nicely I I wanted to give you this draft um Martha has been working on a draft that looks like this with our dates so it's on a one page um we actually uh may have looked at a couple other neighboring calendars and asked them how to do it I just think this presents itself differently the only thing we would need on the like a second page are the dates of the trimesters and a quarter ends so that would be on the second page I I want to basically say tonight what you vote are the days and the calendar the format I'm sharing you we're we're working on this is what we would actually post on the website to be easier for our parents and families and distribution so nothing the dates wouldn't change the the start the end the vacations the days off right nothing would change for what you're going to vote tonight it's just a simple format I wanted you to see that we're working on just because we think it's going to be better for everybody I hope that makes sense to everybody okay I would like to comment um calendar sure ch um she wants to comment on the calendar yeah the the only discussion that I would like to have on the school calendar and I know that it has a lot to do with um contracts and teacher contracts and all that I just I want to point out that don't have um celebrations in schools which we are going to try and work on I know that holiday celebrations however we do observe a um we do observe Good Friday and that day is given off to our staff and things like Passover that not given off and you know so I I do want to point that out just because if we're not celebrating holidays um in school then I I don't see the benefit to having a holiday off that favors one religion so I'm I'm not going to answer for the super I'm going to throw a lifeline on Good Friday because the May was mystified why we have Good Friday off and I now know the answer it's because it's in our cbas um that's one that's one big one right yep so on the city side it's in seven of them yeah uh because I like a dope uh drove into work Good Friday morning and uh I didn't have my keys on me and couldn't get into the building and I was like what the hell's going on nobody's here and then I realized it I called the chief of step and she said was Good Friday May we we got no work I'm like okay um so I don't know about the other holidays but I can tell you that's how that so good good Friday and thank you member Maxwell we've had this conversation and I know Miss Keegan has a some thoughts too um I think the two reasons number one it is part of our all of our contract agreements um that that day is a day uh off but the second part is that we create right School dist we have certain federal and state holidays that have to be off that are on this calendar uh but we typically build a school calendar based on our community so so in here in Methuen uh most of our community does um observe and I I don't want to say all CU I don't I mean I don't know what the the demographics are such shows that a good majority of our demographics do observe um the Christian holiday of Easter and uh Good Friday and so we don't have a capacity of population of uh Jewish families and staff that would take the days off and we have ways that we we observe the religious holidays that anybody needs to take off for any holiday right if they need uh any of the Jewish holidays off for students and staff uh we grant that and we give them the religious holiday uh one of my concerns I have shared uh the past several years that we've had this conversation is that uh if and districts have done it differently around us there are some districts that don't observe any right they they basically go to school every holiday regardless of the community that's a community decision uh I'd be concerned on two fronts the fact that it's in all the contracts is going to be a challenge right now for us to change that uh and also if I have a capacity of staff that ask for that Friday off for religious purposes I don't have enough staff to run the district that is that it they have the right to ask for that day off for religious purposes uh I I would be concerned about that and so I've brought those two things up in the past it is certainly uh part of the conversation of how we build school calendars everything else on here is any required holidays and any days off we have on a Friday Monday to observe is here um and I know that one I would just like to I'd just like to say that if we're going to continue with that and we're going to say that the demographic is you know mainly Christian or or whatever you know that's all that's great and I'm not for taking away Good Friday I would just like to not take away the other celebrations and that will come with the holiday celebration committee I'm aware I just I I just wanted to make it public that I I am aware that it is a Christian focused holiday and we are not celebrating Christian focused holidays because we have been told we are not allowed to celebrate Christian um holiday so okay um Vice chair so um for the past two years I've also been um an advocate for getting rid of Good Friday um there are two good Fridays every year one for the Eastern Christians and one for the Western Christians and we only give the Western Christians their Good Friday um if it's in the contract as Good Friday we should be giving both um as far as I'm concerned or we should be giving none because we don't give anything to any of the other religious um beliefs and to say that it's part of the collective bargaining um contracts to me then why are we voting on a calendar and I know that we have to vote on a calendar but if it's going to be dictated by the contracts then we shouldn't be voting on a calendar it should just be given to the school district and it should just be the way it is we shouldn't be voting on it because it's already decided for us so I will again as I usually do vote no on the the calendar because I don't feel that good Friday should be on there though go first no no you oh okay so for the last two years um I've always been forward of Good Friday I am a Christian in a majority Christian to uh town you could say we're a city but the town um and I'm sorry like in the ends of holidays I have no problem adding acknowledgement of other holidays onto the calendar so people are aware of the like Passover and other things I'm happy to add that but to what the superintendent said you can't stop a person practicing their religion and if they all want to go out on Good Friday and say I'm not coming in it's good Friday the superintendent cannot stop them that's against religious practices and so if you want to and if you want to take off the name Good Friday you could play around with that but I can still say that but also you could try to take it off the calendar and say it's no longer good Friday it's just a day off to us Christians that's going to be good Friday and we're going to say it's good Friday it doesn't need to be on a calendar to us to express our Good Friday I I'm pretty sure for a fact and I've said this for the last two years I have no problem adding other holidays because frankly we should be adding other holidays so kids and parents acknowledge other holidays and religions we should be adding that but of course that doesn't mean and the superintendent just said if someone wants to practice to our Jewish Jewish members they get excused abanes they cannot it it is perfectly fine we're pointing this out because it is just because the name is on the calendar that's all it's doing yeah so I don't want to you know do ring around the rosie um I think you know I'm not suggesting we change the to me you know I'm going to tell you that I no longer have kids in school in meor right um but the part that used to pay me the most is when they went back to school before Labor Day and I look at this and I see you know there's really one instructional day no two two I take that back two before the Labor Day recess and I guess you know if I was a teacher if I was the parent of a student today would you know what am I getting out of those that day and a half basically right that happens before Labor Day why we start why we and I get I know I get it I get it's the 180 but I guess I would appeal to all of us to kind of think about you know a lot of bad things happened in the pandemic I know this is going to be third line stuff I'm saying but we learned a lot about communicating right uh I keep going back to that joke with the lady uh peers to her future self and the future self says to invest in zoom and she says Zoom what the hell is zoom um and obvious joke there is everybody uses Zoom now right um I I would almost rather say uh you know uh you know no snow days taken and I use the capacity so if we know snowstorms coming granted we don't always but you know we use snow days when we don't know if there's a forecast of one like that dreaded blizzard that we got the inch out of this year um then we have the students take their their you know Chromebooks or whatever home home and and we have remote learning versus um you know adding two days at the beginning of the year that I don't know because to me you start with two days with students and then you stop immediately and then you get a three-day weekend I'm not sure I I see the benefit and you know I defer to you know experts you know in the back maybe maybe there is maybe there's a lot of benefit to the two days right are you saying yes I am okay so so never mind I everything I just said ignore yeah I would also say that this just goes to member Keegan's Point some of that is contractual as well yeah at this point it's contractual it is oh okay all right well it used to be a little bit Yeah it LO it used to be a lot looser when we started and after L the day and when the date fell and so we've we've a couple contracts ago solidified that it happens it's always going to be before Labor Day teachers come back kids come back everybody has a 4day weekend um but but you know I I would point out with this calendar yeah right our last day without snow days is June 16th is a Monday um so it we're we're pushing farther you know we don't like to push farther into June um and so you know that there's challenges there because we all that's the week of juneth so that would be new right if we have some snow days then June 19th is a is a day off uh we wouldn't go to school on that day so it moving the days any farther into June do make me a little more nervous especially I mean June 16th uh you know this year it's June 14th and we had some snow days and we're ending on that Friday before so this calendar is set back a little bit I mean our our winter break is a little bit longer yeah uh than typical we have a couple years where that will happen where the time in between the Christmas and New Year's is just longer during that winter break so do we have Jun off because it's a federal what did she I it's hard to hear you Kristen if she asked if we have juneth off because it's a Federal holiday yes yes schools would be Clos if if school was in session it wouldn't be it would be closed our offices are all closed on June 19th yep m d sorry yeah just just an observation you know throwing politics into the discussion I was just think started with religion you know September 3rd is um State primary day it is and um I I there's probably no way around it but I just want to put out there is always chaos a lot of parents don't come kids don't come to school till um after Labor Day we know that right um and this is I it's just going to add to a little bit of the stressors of the day for everybody where you have elections going on in the school in some of the school buildings and it's it really is like the second first first day of school in many ways so I I just want there's going to have I'm sure there will be a lot of good communication telling families expect a little chaos in the parking lots and this November 4th as well well we won't be in the building not the kids won't be the staff will be yeah okay so I don't it's no way around it I guess but it's always a wor excuse me November 5th it's not on the calendar saying oh it's not no it's it's it's an open day so I'm looking at it that Tuesday which is it's going to be M because it's a presidential election no it's a full day professional development day so November 5th is not a holiday it we don't have students it's a professional development day we've always had that where I'm sorry on the One You're voting on just look at this as like a work in progress I'm so sorry this is what I just want you to see this for the format look at the one in your packet it's one we reviewed 19,000 times you missed toied us yeah I'm sorry this one is the one that we has the dates that we have had 10,000 people look at so I'm sorry this is the format we're looking at we still have some work to do draft Yeah so I apologize so yes the fifth is on there is a day it's a professional development day yeah we don't have kids in the building that day that's a good thing y any other comments all right Matha Ryan dolio yes May Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan no Kristen Maxwell Kristen Maxwell no Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes Mayan Neil Perry no four yes three no it passes four carries yep thank you uh may I have a motion and a second to approve the first and final read of policy number be school committee meetings so moved second by member wette second by member shilia discussion have a question go ahead um the only question I have is it doesn't um cover it says that all of our meetings have to be here and what about the joint meeting with the city council which is often times not here and that's not covered in this policy it says that everything has to be here yeah so we could yeah that's a great great point we could certainly add um we could add you know vote hopefully tonight and add it with an you know I I put in that piece that if it's a joint it may be at the sur's building or here right because it really would only be those yeah that's a good point we didn't count for that I'll add that to the top one two three I can put a four if people are amable to that a four if there is a joint city council school committee meeting it may be held at and the time may be a an agreed upon time it might not be 6:30 does that make sense I would just note that instead of saying it'll be held at City Hall just at a different location different location as in accordance with the posting just in case we end up at TV studio orever totally get it Y and when I read it over the weekend the only thing I took down super you like this is we have to strive to make sure the meetings finish by 10 o'clock that's why right I mean it's there yeah right excuse me I'm sorry which I'd like to give you the one hour warning right now amen I'm there yeah yeah and and I I I do wanted to share you know the why behind that um I two things right the the building does close at 10: I don't have staff in the buildings after 10 so if if we are going I'm either paying somebody after have to find somebody that can stay uh and we don't always stay to after but but 10:00 is when the building actually needs to be locked up um and also our students legally can't work past 10:00 right so we haven't had an issue because the couple meetings we've had that have gone past P that have been executive sessions and they've left but I am concerned that if we do an executive session first and we go this late um you know they we do know all need to be out of the building at 10: that's why I put the time change in there um and I did consult with masc to call and say what is within our purview and the woman was fantastic and suggested you absolutely can do that make sure you put language in here that says what do you do when you didn't finish that's what that's what the school committee has to have in policy is the process of if there are seven items left instead of us it didn't feel great the other night when we were like run through quickly the last seven items it made everybody uncomfortable because we've never really had to do that what do we do next if there items that can wait the school committee can vote to put them on the next agenda and that's how we start the meeting or give yourself that and she made that clear give yourself if there are items that are timely then make sure you put there that the school committee knows that you can have a special meeting to approve contracts or whatever it might be that timely but you still give that 48 hour notice for posang so I did get that from masc because I said we I don't know what to do in this situation it's just odd and uh I think we consulted with the City Council secretary too and she's like we just go until we're done and I was like well that we don't we're not going to stay here until 1 o' to do that but so that's that's the why behind this and I know we just updated this policy so I apologize but I do I think these are really important notes to make for the why behind it and just you know our time spent uh in the meetings and um making sure we have a process if we don't finish sure I just I had a quick question go ahead M just like hypothetically if we started at uh at 6 instead of 6:30 for our meetings and bought us an extra half hour because we do presentations we have the sore certain salutes uh student uh recognition if we did six o'cl would that be something too that would help us on the back end I mean I that's you know because we're we're going to the clock yeah very much so I mean the this end couldn't change right this end has to be what it is I mean the the be the start time is completely within the perview of the committee correct I mean we had 6:30 voted in several years ago and we couldn't change it because of people's schedule so I'm you know wear at the will of the committee on the times it's can I add as oh go ahead Mis can we I I see where you're going friendly Amendment but instead of changing it to say six o'clock can we say as published in the required posting because I love that there may be meetings where we don't need the extra half hour maybe you want to get out of here half hour earlier which I fully understand but maybe sometimes we start at 6:30 because we have things going on before and maybe sometimes it's at 6 consistent I'm going to offer a friendly Amendment accepted or not it's going to be six o'clock I would add that as an amendment y um I would just say that just for people watching it I think being consistent with start time I think would be important a little scheduling too for the staff and the students that do it you know ahead of time so they know this the meetings happen I mean they have been fantastic because I've had to ask them to switch schedules and be here next Thursday and we we we have enough flexibility there but for the consistency at least we know the times that would be my only so so and so my only feedback is the friendly amendment is on the floor for six o'clock is what I heard you say um I just want to cut so right now this is for the FY 2425 school committee calendar it would not touch the rest of the meetings that are scheduled right here I just right I don't want anybody being use right mhm so we can hope that's all okay so there's a friendly Amendment on the floor to change uh the start time of the school committee meeting to 6 PM do we have a second second second by member Dean any further discussion on that go ahead would that change the end sorry go ahead go chis go um would that change the end time I know you said that we have to be out of the school you don't have the staff by 10 so would that change the end time to 9:30 or are we still okay with 10 still okay with 10 I still have to have an end time at 10 whatever whatever you guys I mean hopefully we won't the hope is if we start at 6 remember Maxwell yeah that we wouldn't have to Grove right right yeah good question I wouldn't have to change the that part of the policy it just would help us hopefully not ever not get there so often how about that um I'm fine with that but the problem was with the beginning of the new school year um I I know I'm the only teacher here but I six o'clock might be pushing it because Sports after school programs yeah so that's why I will probably be late um so I know maybe to some people that might not be a big deal but um but um I'm just saying I'm going to vote no on it because I don't know the schedu Y any other discussion can I just ask clarifying right so so the six o'clock time would pertain to the 24 beginning in 24 calendar so I'll have to indicate that on the policy when we post it corre but the rest of it we need to be effective immediately right like that's what I'm okay I'll have to post it such and make sure there's a note on that we'll make sure okay MAA so this is a roll call on the front Amendment on the friendly Amendment Six o' because we still have to do another amendment on the ad second Ryan daglio no Mary Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila yes thank you Kenneth wette yes thank you may Neil Perry yes motion carries so the friendly Amendment carries now we need to vote to accept the policy as friendly amended so moved move by member will let before we do that do we need to do a friendly amendment to add in the yes that's what I meant yeah you have to do another amendment to add the number four in Thea in the event of a joint city council school committee meeting it may be held at a different location Miss yep y so moved so second there you go moved by member shilia seconded by member wette in Reverse um any further discussion on item number four joint meetings with the city council hearing a see none MAA Ryan daglio no oh I'm sorry can I yes so yeah yeah yeah yes may Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shilia yes Kenneth wette yes Mayan Neil Perry yes motion carries thank you Mr shilia now we need a motion to approve the twice amended policy BBE uh school committee meetings so moved second by member shilia second by member wette any further discussion hearing none seeing none Martha take it away Ryan daglio no mayor Beth denovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes may Neil Perry yes motion AR thank you um we will now start the discussion of the nomination election process for the city Charter commission representative to the school department now I I would like to clarify something here so the way the ordinance was put forth by the city council um it does not have it does not have to be an election of one from the school committee there the mayor has to pick five people and the preference was that somebody would be from the school side so but I am happy to use the the brain because I'll be honest I'm struggling um for five people I'm thrilled to have you guys think about it but it can't be anybody who's actively serving on the committee because no elected people are allowed uh it you know it it would have to be somebody and it's going to take some time I gotta be honest with you right so the meetings are are going to come pretty pretty quickly yes I would just offer this because I think we have had an excellent format for the appointment of the school committee y member is to offer that as a format if someone is interested in in serving on the chat commission but the thing I have to emphasize is it has to be a representative of the school department yeah okay yeah so I mean I have a natural choice but I'm not sure I should be willing to do it yeah um and it I think it pigeon holes us because I have someone who might not be affiliated with the school department anymore but someone who served under the the CH Commission in previous years yeah it might add some you know longevity and experience to the the process but like what is the definition of a representative the the school department is it someone who is affiliated with the PTO is it a parent is it an employee is administrator um so I I don't that's a natural process but I'd say you know um Any teacher could um you know we could turn to the superintendent and the assistant superintendent that would be my preference and you know I would love to nominate the superintendent but I can't I don't want to compel her to to serve and I think it creates a little Dynamic to it well with with Sympathy for the I would to I would not ask her to do that but that's that's your call if you wanted to do it you welcome to step but it it's going to take some time right so there are going to be meetings and they're going to be it I so appreciate that I would appreciate not being the person sit on it I tried I tried and I and I would say I mean right I am a resident I get it I understand it I I do think there's somebody else that could probably give it the time and attention that I might not be able to give it and that's true and I appreciate your comment I appreciate it makes sense uh but I I just I'm not sure what it entails and if it is time I'm not sure how much time I could give between now and October to do that kind of work so that's the problem I have is like it's if you had a non representative of the school department that would open up to people who maybe served as prior on school committee or city council or who has done volunteer work or served on commissions and then we could have like an open interview process but it kind of like now we need to have a representative of the school department and we don't even have a clarification is it really an employee and we're directed one of the categories you just described could be it though it could be anybody it could be a former school department employee it could be a um a former city council member it could be um I'll give you an example I don't want to sh her on my list of people to ask is her husband right um wow well and I just say that not not watching no well so he's a guy who's been involved in various aspects of the city government so you don't want to have you don't want to put somebody up for something that they're going to hate that they get blindsided you know this really stinks right so the charter commission my guess is Ken um there was a charter commission formed in 18 uh it did a lot of work um much of what I read was pretty good stuff um and then they there was a failure in the handoff between um the commission man Jer and the city clerk at the time and the stuff did not get to the Secretary of State when it did get there it didn't get FastTrack and so it fell by the wayside and never got voted on yeah right so my guess is there are some people that are going to be named that will will have been part of the previous Charter commission and they will push hard I would assume to let's start by taking a look at what we proposed last time 2018 is not that long ago so um you know it can be any one of those categories I just and you don't have to name it tonight you know we we've got a couple weeks here so if you want to take some time and talk to some people and that goes out to anybody um you're welcome to do that because I I thought the format how we do it was like was fantastic yeah and we allowed someone to give uh personal remarks sure and then we made a final determination and we can do that we can I would rather have that approach as opposed to us working you know nefariously in the back room with cigar smoke please don't use the word back room yeah you know what I'm saying I and I want to dispel that immediately I want this open transparent allow people to give speeches I just wanted the clarification so let's put it like this so if you if any of you have somebody that you think and honestly it doesn't it doesn't it says at least one has to represent the school we might find two right that we say those two really good right it doesn't preclude us from putting them on the the commission right the way it's written it's written very very Loosely and that's not good though I know that's not good Mr chairman so is the action here for each of us to to go back and for the next meeting to come up with nominees for okay are you okay with that willing nominees yes yeah Will dragging them in yeah yeah I I can feel Tom having a melt down yeah don't tell him he's going to see it on he's going to see it on public television the poor guy okay so the agreed upon action is we'll take that off and that would include uh the superintendent assistant superintendent if there's somebody in the schools some a teacher or somebody who really would like to you know participate in this say like a a Civics teacher or somebody who could really gain something from it by pan be a great idea right so we'll hold that till next session thank you are there any oh my God third rail stuff coming up I have one question about it how old is the person need to be how what how old because could it be say a senior in high school who's 18 that was interested in C that's a great question I don't know it's not spelled out in the resolution they did not we'll just say Rister yeah okay of met the one yeah so an 18-year-old would be okay I think so okay thanks be an eye opening experience what flip my Civics teacher somebody who's like an AP be a great learning experience we can talk about the be nice role yeah RFI Tean yeah y all right so um moving on and I want to talk so um you know I got a lot I I could calls and I apologize I never got back to poor Ryan uh there uh the MPS audit subcommittee so the city council wants to put two bodies on it they would like us to put two bodies on it because I have to sit on it right so our task if we so is are there nominations I know that both Ryan and Kristen have reached out to me the nomination process is up to this committee on how you do it um uh if I had my brothers I would pass the the chair and let somebody else uh gavel the audit subcommittee but um y uh city council voted against that so I throw that out there for discussion before you know we we nominate anybody member  um I'm just gonna I I I'm figuring everybody kind of knows what they're going to do tonight but I just wanna um but um I this was my campaign promise for three years um I the mayor and I will will test to this all day since the very beginning that we've take this office that I've been asking for an audit especially the climate part of the audit um that's why a lot of the teachers in the back can know me because I've told them several times I think we need an audit um in the schools not just Finance but wondering why there was so much turnaround why if if if our teachers are happy our students are happy and do it just like we did with the police Department um unfortunately I did not make it to the me uh joint meeting um I was away um in Lexington for the uh for a few days um but I read over the audit I'm happy with the audit um but this is something that I again the mayor will say um and a couple of residents will say um that this is something I'm very passionate about um and I know I can do this job very well as a representative of the school depart uh school committee because this is something that I've been pushing for for three years yes yes you have thank you I just want to make one other comment though I want I want to get people so audits are not hit pieces so I want to make crystal clear what the audit is to me and the audit is to identify all the things that we do really well and to build upon those and to identify the things we don't do well and to give us alternate paths on how we could do well on them right I don't intend to see um you know any hit Pieces come out of this audit that's not and and um how do I say this publicly without getting trou one of the things that I worry about is the first thing I did when I was mayor is do an audit of the police department and I worried that it set a tone and we did an audit of the DPW and I sit here before you and tell you and my good friend and I probably disagree there are if at DPW uh did everything I had hoped it would it gave us a path to write the ship if you will right to to do things better um and I point out you know certain hiring positions they talked about uh we hired uh one individual Felix Garcia who's who's killing it Knocking out of the park right so the audit has paid dividends I I don't want people es sconed in the in the theory that an audit is a negative thing it is not it is not intended to be a negative thing um you know I've done audits all my days at Ron um they they primarily Focus like I said on paths to doing better right um and that's all I see this audit doing for us right I want to make sure people understand so we don't want to make this uh um and even in the police audit tell you that um and those results are public you can go look at what I'm saying and see that it's true um if you know an officer complained about a specific incident or discipline or this or that then that was taken as a note if a large contingent of officers talked consistently about a specific topic then it became something that had to be approached right so you have to understand in audits you're going to get people that are unhappy and occasions and they're going to want to express those views and they have a right to express those views but I don't want people expecting you know the audit to be turning a stone on haha you know this is not a this is not a catchall for the superintendent or her staff in my view right this is I'm four and a half years into this job um we've made some progress um I I'll be candidate I certainly would like to see the literacy rate go better and I know you would too um so I'm willing to have somebody outside come in take a look at what we're doing and say maybe you try this maybe you do this a little bit differently so you know whoever gets nominated for the audit committee I just want to have them in the right framework and not be sitting there thinking that we're going to be sitting there you know shooting arrows into people yeah so so to to fix that no the reason why I said use the police department example because a lot of the good came out of it a lot of good came out of it right that's what I'm looking I'm not looking at the negative side of this yeah all right and if if people think that is well that's not what I was looking for yep peace Ken I'm going to make a motion for some nominations because we we were in attendance at a meeting for an hour yeah discussing these issues it's late in the hour yeah okay I'm gonna make a motion for first it's going to be member uh Mary Beth dunan I'm G make that nominate her yep okay that's the first so that's the first nomination are you willing to accept the nomination yes you are okay and the second one will be member shabila shabila are you willing to accept the nomination I am okay so we have two um nominated members who are willing to accept the nomination do we have any other members who who would like second for them I'm sorry does we need a second for them um yeah I think we do I screwed that up I'll second both of them okay thank you for to save me some paperwork um do we have any other others that want to be nominated I have a question yes um can you nominate yourself yes you can I would like to nominate myself that's okay Maxwell has nominated herself I will second that seconded by Ryan and then and are you willing hang on are you willing to accept the nomination if if if you're the member selected okay go ahead Ryan and I like to nominate myself yep do I have a second on that I will second that for Brian did you second it I couldn't hear I'm sorry yeah I will second that okay second and are you willing to serve if selected yes okay so we have four nominations in the interest of time I would suggest uh before we have any more nominations um we're going to have to go to a vote process on this so Martha how this is going to work and stop me if I'm wrong is go around twice I think do we have a discussion on the nominations first um okay with that yes oh okay um I've been dreading this vote for like two and a half weeks now um I look around the table and knowing all of you and some extended capacities and some for the last three months I know that every single person at this table brings a valuable asset to that audit committee and when member daglio said earlier that I think a lot of he thought a lot of people knew how they wanted to this to go or what they were going to do I I can honestly say I didn't because and I've had this conversation with member Maxwell and member dunan over the last two weeks I I can see a positive and negative to everybody um unfortunately it can't be all of us so I although there'll be two of us that are going to sit at that table I still view that as a centralized effort no matter who the two are it's a centralized effort um I've been a part of more rfps than I can even count and unfortun unfortunately more audits from federal agencies and everything else then I can count and it's it's not the people who are sitting at table it's the collective Brain Trust behind them that are driving those conversations the table amen so I just I want that that out there that no matter what happens it's it's not a a negative reflection on any of us agre that's that's my two sense and I so I I think you make a very valuable point there though you know is whoever goes on the committee um it's incumbent upon them to regularly bring back to this school committee committee okay here's here's where we are here's the point we are in the audit here's what we've discussed here's issues they've raised um you know they're going to probably come to us and say how can we get more information here there everywhere so there's there's a lot to it but um I I don't want the school committee to think that they're out of um out of touch right even though it's only two people and and I say it again and um I if I could I would stand out right just to just to have some fresh eyes looking at it you know not necessarily from a school perspective so that you know it's not I participated in two audits already you know since my tenure of Mayor so um I defer to the rest of you uh I just got asked the question you know is it two or three people somebody texted me and it's it's two because I'm the third so we have to watch the Quorum rules right so we're at three we're on the cusp of it right um and I don't count as a city C council member so I come on the school committee side so we have four nominations if I may ask one quick question yeah this if you have communicated to the council that you want to be excluded from this I have was the edict that you couldn't well no um so their their perspective is and and this is is probably then this happened last year uh so I'm going into the way back it was the last Council not the current Council so um the discussion started around who's going to pay for the audit that's where it began yeah and and that's over the city's going to pay for it um and that was voted on by the previous Council but they voted that the mayor and two representatives from okay the city council would go to to the audit right so um is what it is it's it's like it's just like this you whoever goes to the Charter commission whoever you come I I give you this I I don't for the life of me understand why the mayor has to be the chair of the school committee that the day for that is coming the mayor should be part of the school committee but he or she should not have to be the chair right and that's that's just common sense to me so um I throw excuse me Maya I apologize we need to take a vote to go past 9:30 I thought was 10:00 didn't we just all right next year all right all right so we need to we need a vote to extend past 9:30 so moved moved by Vice Chair seconded by members shilia Al the Oh shot you got a roll call dolio yes Mar Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shilia yes Kenneth wet yes mayil Perry yes unanimous made it in the nick of time 920 29 all right thank you Marth all right um so I'm a little um and I throw this out to the committee so how we have four members nominated any one of the four I would be thrilled to have on the audit subcommittee as a member of the school committee um so how do you want to do how do we do this do we just do a voting process or go in order of who is nominated I'm sorry go in order of who is nominated and just vote okay so the first person nominated was member dunan excuse me mayor do we need to close nominations so moved we do you're right thank you thank you member wette member shilia um we don't have to do a roll on that though do we we don't have to do a roll call on closing nominations or do we yeah we should do a roll I think yes it's roll call V Ryan dolio to close nominations May Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes may Neil Perry yes unanimous okay so uh the first member nominated was um Mary Beth dunan um and I'm quick question soorry so for because there four it still has to be the majority vote of each member correct that's selected right say that again yeah I'm oh okay they can vote for themselves so yeah that's yeah you ready yeah so you have Mary Beth Donovan was nominated and it was seconded by member Keegan so you got to do a roll call vote sorry that's the first one Ryan gaglio um because I'm a nominee no mayor Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell no Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes May Daniel Perry yes okay so that one is okay so then we'll go to the next one and then we'll see who gets the most votes right that passed though right that pass that passed that's good okay that is so we're just going to do it till it passes then is that what we're doing well we'll do all four but if they if they all end up passing then we we got to we got to get slapped around by the people in the back of the room so all right so now we're onil Dan shilia seconded by Lorie Keegan Ryan dolio say I'm nom no mayor Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes may Neil Perry no one two three four five yes two no passes this is going to be wild I can see this coming the next one is Christen Maxwell seconded by Ryan Ryan do aglio yes may Beth Donovan no Lori Keegan no Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila no V Kenneth wette present may an Neil Perry yes so we have one two three yes three no and one present coming up better than I thought so so that does not pass then right no it does not okay and then we're on Ryan who was nominated himself and Kristen Maxwell seconded his seconded his nomination Ryan daglio yes may Donovan no Lori Keegan no Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila no Kenneth wette present Manel Perry no one two four no two yes one present so I just want to explain my notes I have I I have confidence in anybody could do it but there were two people there only two people could do it so I could in my mind I could only vote Yes twice so after I voted yes twice and and Mr chairman too like I wish we had a legal advisory I know that excused you because you it's a separate branch of government you have a executive branch legislative branch and this is an elected school committee yeah so I thought you would be separate from the process anyways so that's not the way they laid it out yeah oh geez oh what a shame that would be easy okay uh thank you guys for that and well done we avoided the rigors of uh two years ago when we had the vice chair still made I still have nightmares over that is there any other business from the committee motion to adjourn all right with no with no well we we got yeah not not quite yet with no further business to discuss at this time may have a motion in a second to adjourn the workshop business portion of the meeting of April 24th 2024 and go into executive session all moved second okay mve by members seconded by Vice chair Keegan no vote yet pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 38 section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body and the chair is so clares all units we will not reconvene it to open session at conclusion of the executive session is there any discussion on this all right roll call vote Martha Ryan daglio Yes mayor Beth Donovan yes Lori Keegan yes Kristen Maxwell yes Daniel shabila yes Kenneth wette yes Mayan Neil Perry yes unanimous the meeting is adjourned at 9:35 p.m. we get 10 o'clock good night mther [Music] e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for