##VIDEO ID:U4a_Bwainzg## we have a busy schedule today but at noon we are going to lose Quorum for variances so we are going to adjust the schedule a bit so that we can hear the variance request applications first and those will be announced as they come thank you so much rilio all right so good morning everybody I can confirm we have five members present so we do have a we do have a quorum we have uh MAA bakavoli Scott dind derer Sarah Giller Nelson Laura Luen and Sam Sheldon Shan Meer um um is not here today so um don't me to read it okay let's move on y all right good morning everyone today's meeting of the designer VI board has been scheduled in a hybrid format with Quorum of the board physically present at the city May Beach City Hall City commission Chambers and applicants staff and members of the public appearing either in person or virtually via the zoom platform webinar in order to participate in today's meeting those wishing to participate via the zoom platform webinar may dial 888 475 4499 and enter the webinar ID which is 822 7394 924 or log in into the Zoom app and enter the webinar ID which again is 822 7394 1 924 any individual wishing to speak on an item must click the raise hand icon if they're using the Zoom app or dial Star 9 if they're participating by phone now before before I swear in those that are testifying I'm going to read into the record the city's notice regarding lobbyist registration if you are appearing on behalf of a city uh on behalf of a business a corporation or another person you must register as a lobbyist with a city with the city clerk's office if you haven't registered yet you should register before you speak to the board that includes Architects attorneys or employees representing an applicant or an objector you do not have to register as a lobbyist in three limited circumstances one if you're speaking only on behalf of yourself and not any other party two if you are testifying as an expert witness Prov providing only scientific technical or other specialized information or testimony in this public meeting three if you are appearing as a representative of a neighborhood association without any compensation or reimbursement for your appearance to express support or opposition to any item that said expert Witnesses and representatives of neighborhood associations shall prior to appearing disclose in writing to the city clerk their name address and the principal on whose behalf they're communicating these rules apply whether you're appearing in favor of or against an item or encouraging or arguing against its passage defeat modification or continuance now um if you're physically present please stand and Rise uh uh raise your right hand U virtual speakers will be sworn in at the time of their presentation do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be given in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do right thank you guys may sit down and you may proceed okay so um the first item with a variance is 1801 Alton Road but I believe the attorney is not here yet or should we move on to the next item next one okay oh do we need to approve the minutes oh I apologize yes do we have a motion to approve the minutes uh I move to I move to approve the minutes second uh okay Mr Sheldon and Miss bu any uh all those in favor I I I motion passes and M Myer's absent okay um so we're GNA the next item with a variance would be drb2 24- 0994 that's for The Standard Hotel 40 Island Avenue one fairy Lane and two fairy Lane um so an application has been filed requesting design review approval for the renovation of the existing building on the western portion of the subject property including updated finishes and appearance and for the construction of a new five-story hotel and multif family residential building on the Eastern portion of the subject property including variances for the required sum of sidey yard setbacks and to allow for the aggregation of three contiguous slots and including one or more waivers to replace existing structures um so the applicant um is proposing new construction on the side of the Standard Hotel um they will be replacing the Eastern wing of the building um with a new five-story building that will contain Hotel units um and then the upper floors will'll have six residential units the front of the building is is remaining the the the entrance building which is three stories um designed and built in 1950 will be remaining um as part of this uh development the new building will also include parking spaces on the ground floor currently there is no parking on the site so parking is happening uh in Sunset Harbor and the valley operations are very complicated so this will facilitate the operations of the building the additional lots that are being added on one and two Ferry Lane are are intended to include a driveway which will go into the parking garage area given the existing facade there's really no other location where a driveway could go into this garage so that's why those two lots are being added um a variance is being sought for those driveway to to add those two lots there is a limit in the R1 District of two lot aggregation um they're in this case they're adding three lots they're com they're aggregating three lots the two lots one and two fairy Lane are pretty small so actually the two together equal one standard lot so that is a practical difficulty that the lots are sub are not uh standard Lots um so that is a that is a practical difficulty um and then for the sum of side yards the variance for some of sidey yards because they're adding those two lots um that increases the width of the property um they are complying with individual side setbacks but the sum of sidey yard setbacks increases to the point where it is a practical difficulty and they will not be able to comply the existing buildings that are there do not comply with the sum of side yard setback so they're basically keeping a A continuing non-conformance that already exists on the site um the the proposed new building um is in a uh contemporary style um um staff is supportive of the design um which I'm sure the applicant will go go through the details of the design additionally they are requesting a waiver um the ground floor of the new building is for parking and they and so the code requires that you have 12 feet above the designed flood elevation um for future adaptation but because it is just being used for parking they are requesting a waiver and reducing that to 10 ft um so staff is is supportive of the waiver and the two variances the um the applicant does have a code amendment that um um is being considered they do have some code issues uh with the site because they're introducing residential uses it's technically an apartment Hotel um apartment hotels are not uh a permissible use in the arm1 district so they do have a code amendment in progress to address that issue um they also have an amendment in progress that would address the issue of the three lot aggregation but in this Cas they seeking a variance which is which is um acceptable um I believe those are the major issues um is just the code issues that they have moving forward and so as a result of that they did submit a uh hold harmless agreement to the city if that code Amendment does not pass they'll either have to rework the project or or or they won't be able to proceed with the project as is um so with that staff recommends that the design review board approve the uh the application and the uh waivers and the variances so good morning Madam chair board M staff Michael Larin T South B K Boulevard here represen the applicant I'll tell you that this is one of the longest applications I've worked on it taken about a year and a few months actually to get to hearing before you but it was worth all the effort it took the design improved our relationship with our neighbors are great we've took great efforts to try to reach out to everyone and as a result I think you'll see like positive uniform support from all of our neighbors today and as you know the standard is a gym in Miami Beach so everyone cares about the standard and you can't do anything with the standard not have a range of opinions that whether it's right or wrong so we think we're very much right in what we're proposing and um so could the presentation be pulled up please I'm actually having trouble downloading the presentation from the agenda yeah anybody else that's what you got to do the letter of support where are you here click on it I mean I'm I'm happy to look at here I I don't know is that something that I'm wondering if that's H going to happen with the other the other applications let me see if I can get to it on here I can hold Madam chair until you're done like this is this is important so you guys need to see it so well we can do it on here I mean all the other files I doubt she was able to do ago okay maybe they fixed it okay sorry for I think I clicked on the um see it's zero thank you thank you sir thank you very much it seems to be loading on mine if you hit click there's a little eyeball I can just look at the I have the items that were the actual plans right I mean I have I have the files that were updated previously the different all the different architectural but just not the actual presentation but go ahead copy we can sure you thank you just don't page ahead please let me okay next slide please so again good morning we're here with a great team to present to you all today we have Kobe karp and Matt Mard from Kobe karp architecture we have big architecture with Domin from Big from their New York City office we have Chris Cy our landscape architect Wen Vargas our traffic engineer uh High made Samantha from Integra they our owners rep project managers and last but not least is Nick Rodriguez my colleague from my Law Firm who kept the trains running on time this whole year and some months so thank you Nick for that next slide so the standard property is a piie shaped lot on North side of Bell Isle it's about 2.3 Acres with fairy Lane 1 and two adds about 5,500 Square ft to that acreage amount the hotel building itself is a U-shaped building with two wings and a center structure we have a one-story East Wing which is proposed to be redeveloped a two-story West Wing that will be renovated and preserved and then a three-story Center structure facing Island Avenue that will be preserved the owners have also purchased very Lane uh one and two which is in the bottom right hand corner in order to develop on-site parking without demolishing any part of the iconic Center structure in order to have a driveway there next slide so the existing structure of the property have evolved over time as is the case in many buildings in Miami Beach the original Hotel was designed by Norman Giller and was a classic myo Motel similar what You' find the Upper East Side in the myo District in Miami or in North Beach originally there was a driveway along the east side leading to a surface parking lot between the East wing and the homes on Ferry Lane next slide in 1960 the original one-story South was demolished and the property was redeveloped as the Leo spa hotel according to the City Records a Herbert matys designed the 1960s three-story Center structure that we all recognize today as we're driving or walking by on the Venetian Causeway next slide today the standard is a wellness Oasis known for its Haman spa and Bayfront pool deck the hotel is the opposite of the party hotels of South Beach focusing more on creating a lively yet tranquil place on the shores of iscan bay the standard is a beloved part of the B is community and many of its members live nearby and use the hotel as an extension of their homes on B ale next slide so the application today contains four different requests the first is the design review approval for the proposed East Wing Redevelopment that will contain 50 modern hotel rooms and six large residential units next is a designed waiver to allow a clearance height of 10 ft 2 in between base elevation plus minimum freeboard and the ceiling of the roof of the parking area next is a variance allows some of the side yard setback of 3 feet 5 inches where 37 feet2 inches is required and lastly a variance to allow the aggregation of fairy Lane one and two into the overall property for the purpose of vehicular circulation staff is recing approval of all of our application requests we accept all the staff's conditions we will get into more detail about the waiver and variances uh once you all have seen the design but before turning over the design to Kobe and DOA we want to highlight this application represents a year and a half of collaboration with B resident Association and adjacent neighbors we are required by code to disclose any agreements with neighbors involving any type of consideration whether monetary or non-monetary we've submitted the disclosed letter into the record and are happy to explain we've entered in agreements with the Bell Isle resident Association which involveed monetary consideration The Seer family who own a budding property 8 Century Lane which involved non-monetary consideration the foxman family who own a budding property at 7 Century Lane which involve non-m monitary consideration as well as the owners of six and seven fairy Lane that also involve non-monetary consideration we have built support for this application through our efforts of Outreach including a very well attended online community meeting we sent a personal notice of this virtual community meeting to every unit and Home in Bell Isle and had over 120 people attend our our online presentation we also held a small gathering for Century in fairy Lane residents at the standard last Tuesday to answer any last questions about the project there are significant benefits to Residents associated with this application including the addition of on-site parking which will reduce traffic on the Venetian Causeway by eliminating the valet trips to and from the valet storage lot in CET Harbor and the creation of a loading dock internal to the property we are doing this while not expanding the room count of the hotel which will remain fixed at 105 rooms overall the applic is given the standard a chance to reconnect with its neighbors and come up with compromises to improve operations to preserve the longevity of the hotel while it may be impossible to make everyone happy we are proud of all the efforts we have made and support we have obtained the design that you'll see is a collaboration between big and Kobe car's office big came up with the design concept and Kobe and his team molded it to meet the city's code standards now I'm going to turn over to Dominica from Big's New York City office to introduce you to the design good morning everyone um uh well within the constraints of the permitted zoning envelope the new East Wing Rises um uh uh four stories above um above the FL plane it's uh west facing facade uh leans back ever so slightly to allow U more light to the uh to the existing grounds of um of the standard Garden um the pleed uh the pleated exterior um of the building directs views from the building interior uh towards the water um and um and and the bay and drawing on the tradition of bungalow style um architecture the design seeks to seamlessly integrate within uh uh within the immediately adjacent uh surrounding neighborhood and a distinctive uh um uh character and sense of uh place and destination that Miami Beach is thank you and now we're going to have Kobe karp come up and walk you through the design good morning ladies and gentlemen and I think that since staff represented the project so well as well as Dominica and Michael I don't have anything else to say really um as you can see the project here we have the boards in front of you and let me see if I can push this forward this is um the existing um building that we are proposing for demolition in the sketched in red this is the massing that Dominica has mentioned that is stepping back meaning that as we Ascend up the building we are uh stepping back the building to let more light and air into it bless you as you can see this is the eometric the sonom metric shows how it is that the residential units are on top and then we have the hotel rooms uh below and of course we have the additional parking um which allows us which is the unique um solution here and as been mentioned we have review this with um staff and the neighbors um this is an image from the water um which shows what the public spaces would look like this is um a bit more of a the diagram of it and this is an areial to show it in context and what's nice about the residences on on top is also that you have a rooftop am minity areas that allows you to have the building look all the way around so the opportunity here more so than ever before is to have the building become more architecturally part of the neighborhood and open up to all sides and that is what the imagery is like and this is the um aerial in context the most important thing is that the rooftop amenties here are for the residential and for the end users um we clearly have the existing Central uh Garden spaces being uh improved we have the existing uh Gardens uh being updated the landscape architecture both meeting Island Avenue and the neighbors and the Bay has substantially been improved this shows you how it is that we are looking to essentially um bring the vehicles into the um ground level of the structure and this is the circulation and um the drop off and the loading and this is the drop off for the lobby which now creates a much better solution here you can see the angled our walls and their relationship to the garden and as we Ascend up the building we also have have uh the new hotel rooms as well as the public spaces with the rooftop pent houses residential component which makes it a more unique building because right now you are more in contact with the neighborhood not only architecturally but also from a functioning standpoint meaning that you have the residential component as part of the hotel and that also helps us to look into the future and be make make it a more sustainable solution as it will continue to help us preserve this architecture and the existing facades of the building um in perpetuity as you can see in the materials and and the vertical elements that we have taken is that we have implemented materials and finishes obviously Dominica and her team have been very involved in the materials that we have here and we are really are looking to create a very quiet residential destination um this is the clearances U that Michael was uh referring to and you can clearly see through the package that you have is how it is that we have worked with staff and the neighbors as well as to implementation of the Landscaping on all the way around from Island Avenue um to our adjacent neighbors um with that I'll wrap up and uh be quiet with any questions and or suggestions great thank you thank you thank you sir so Madam chair the remainer of the presentation I'll just go through our request um and then I passed out conditions of approval for you all if you have questions about them they're based on negotiations and talks we've had with our adjacent Neighbors about what they want to see in this order so that's where all these conditions came from um but Kobe just went over the waiver request typically the floor ceiling height the ground floor parking area is 12 feet but you can seek a waiver use of the 10 we thought every foot counts and try to shrink the building a little bit two feet matter so that's where we're asking for that um with regard to the what you're seeing right now it's um and it can you put the to 40 want the waiver yeah pass the waiver to 40 so here the interior side yart setac for the new East Wing we're seeking uh a variance for that what you know the classic case law if you look at fairy Lane one and two that's where you measure the necessary width you need for the interior side yard setback and when you include fairy Lane one and two it inflates the size of a proper property so there thereby it inflates the the setback area uh but that's so in our property makes it unusually shaped piie shape lot how much more time do you think you'll need you know that's really it I mean we're we're done so we're okay sure I mean I can give you a few more minutes no no I think it's better that you all speak so we're here okay thank you very much that concludes your presentation um are there any members of the public wishing to speak oh please come forward yep good morning I'm Gary rug rug 20 Island Avenue on B Isle and Michael was correct it took a very long time to get here and we have gotten here and our association had a meeting for the entire Island and people came out because the standard is a very popular place in our Island and I know when I moved in with my wife uh 12 years ago we were surprised by the standard and how many people go to the standard from our development we have seven buildings as part of B Isle and it did take a long time we didn't want height we didn't want booze at midnight or later we were ready to do argue with Michael I've known Michael for many many years and we agree or disagree at different times but he has worked with the board our committee of people and he has come up with a wonderful display and a wonderful design and you've got top people working on this so we're very excited about what it's going to look like we know there's going to be noise and it's going to take two to three years to get it all done but we too feel that this is going to work out for us we're going to have parking no more blocking things the even the deliveries will go through the parking lot area so I'm here today to represent the group and uh say let's move on we think it's ready to go and we ask the questions that you've will be asking so we're very pleased about it thank you thank you very much and to clarify Mr rug the the building that you're in it's next door it's the multi-story building that's next to number 10 Venetian Way okay we're a um 14 story building on the other side okay all right the one that we were worried about from the very beginning was Vistas yeah which is a lower building and that's right next to the standard yes so they have come along board with it and uh working as members of the B Isle residence Association okay okay other questions good thank you thank you any other members of the public please come forward good morning um and thank you guys for your service uh my name is Joanna Fon I live at nine FY Lane uh and uh I have heard the word adjacent used in reference to the buildings across the street and across the park from The Standard Hotel I will be looking at the New Standard Hotel every time I walk out my door it's going to be about I don't know 50 feet away um so I would call that more adjacent than the people who live all the way across the street a lot of reference has been made to uh the fact that negotiations were going on with the community um the bile residents Association has never represented me or most of my uh Neighbors on fairy Lane uh I've never received uh any communication from them I've never been invited to vote for the people who are you know Representatives on that board I I've never been in the least involved nor invited to be involved in the 15 years that I've lived on fery Lane so so to say that they represent the whole Community is is a stretch in my experience um I don't have an argument with Michael he's such a lovely gentleman I love the standard I have good friends that work there uh I I'm a good neighbor they've been good neighbors um you know I think I've called maybe one time about uh the DJ booth that's just adjacent to uh was just on the water and kind of gets a little bit annoying sometimes and a little bit loud I think I called the standard once I don't pick up the phone and call the city and complain I called them and they take care of it uh and that was just one time so I've put up with a lot of stuff just because I have a very positive feeling toward uh that place and I am not I don't object to them wanting to uh progress and develop and do what makes uh you know Financial sense for them I don't really have a problem with it what I have a problem with is how this whole thing went down I honestly have never seen these plans until today uh I was invited to come last week for a cocktail with the people from Sentry and Ferry it didn't fit my schedule that was a little bit too late um apparently a negotiation happened there was a settlement uh with a value of a million. 27 I found out I found out all this last week I found out that the standard is in negotiations or has closed a deal with uh Greg the guy who has the empty lot it's me Steve and Greg Greg is right next to the standard he owns that property and the one across the street which will be very close by I'm sorry your time is up would you like one more minute to finish or uh yeah let me have one more minute to finish if I have a an event at my house I let my neighbors know because the cars are going to come be coming down the street there might be a little extra noise they are likely to be inconvenient so I let them know in this case the negotiation has happened with everybody who lives way across the street and really is not going to be affected the way we are we're going to have trucks we're going to have construction dust we're going to have a really uncomfortable situation for three years and nobody bothered to come and speak with us and nobody's giving us a million plus dollars uh and I think it's patently wrong so I would like for the standard to come in good faith and speak directly to the people who are going to be directly impacted by their plans and then we can support it under the right circumstances if we make sure that the hours of construction and that they're not going to bring trucks down the street where last time when they did the uh the the power thing we've got a concave area in our street it's about 15 feet wide and 15 fet the other way every time it rains we have a puddle for three days it's that deep this is what happens the last time they had a plan they came to us we talked about hours of operation we talked about whether they could come by way of the back door or not and and what the parameters would be that were very very uh careful about making sure that we were good neighbors and that everybody was satisfied with how things were going to go down that did not happen I'm really just finding out about this in the last couple of weeks it's crazy thank you very much we'll definitely take your thoughts into consideration uh and any other members of the public no have we have two online if nobody's out in person no okay should we go online uh Scott foxman hi Scott are you online yes can you hear me uh yes uh before you go on I just need to swear you in uh quickly okay do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right thank you you may proceed um so my wife and I have lived next to the standard for on the water two doors down for 16 years and um the standard's always been a good neighbor um we've actually stayed there that's how we found our house by staying there uh we've had people put people up there and historically it's been a very good neighbor um in this in this case we have a few issues with the standard and one of them is noise you know so we approach them and they came up with great Solutions uh you'll see as part of their disclosure they're going to uh put a sound barrier they limited any music after 8:00 at night they moved the speakers from that end of the property and they definitely adequately answered all of our issues and um you know we're we're very supportive of the standard doing well and uh we now thoroughly approve of the project um I also agree with Joanne in one sense too uh the Bell Island resident Association doesn't really represent us because we have different needs and I'm with her and that they didn't approach us matter of fact I approached them and didn't get anywhere but that being said uh I'm very much in favor my wife and I are very much in favor of the project and it was very easy to deal with Michael and Miguel and that's it if anybody have any questions for me I'm glad to answer them thank you very much next person is Annette Lopez hi Anette are you online I am good morning hi good morning I just need to swear you in really quickly before you continue uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in this proceeding is a truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right thank you you may continue um I uh I am the attorney for the Sager family they live at 8 Century Lane it is uh directly adjacent to the standard on the water um my client's property is on the west side of the standard um I'm we're here I'm here on behalf of the sagers um to say that we have reviewed the plans uh the proposed plans uh as well as the development of the much needed on-site parking uh and we are in support of the project um the the traffic uh overflows from from the Venetian it's not just on the Venetian Causeway it overflows into the adjacent streets including my client Street on Century Lane um so this is a very welcomed project uh we've had the opportunity to meet with the Standard Hotel team and to understand the changes that are occurring on the property we've reviewed the plans and uh we think it's going to be a positive contribution to the Bell Isle neighborhood thank you very much is that last person online that's all we have online okay I'm now going to close the public portion and open it up to the board for discussion um who would like to begin I'll start um thanks for the presentation I first want to start off to the neighbors that say they haven't heard anything um I used to be president of the Bellow residents Association for the record I'm completely not involved anymore for the past two years I think um but the notices that go out the emails you can always go to balr res.org and the the gossip that goes around that Island I've been hearing about so many proposals of projects in the last however many years so I know this has been out there Joe I'm sorry but it's been totally out there um okay I mean I'm just I'm just telling you B residents not a godamn until last okay did you get a notice I we had notices go out to well anyway I got a notice and I'm not even close to it but I don't okay um I'm really appreciative of the design of this project um I think it's really I know you've worked really hard with the neighbors um I've had several people approach me about it and ask me questions and again I'm not involved with it um but so far the feedback has been really people have been very open-minded to this I have to say that the Landscaping is really important to me the transparency of the building is really nice um and I cannot express enough how important I think the rooftop Greenery is on low buildings surrounded by highrises so I think that's really respectful of everybody looking at that from above um so anyway I'm happy with the project I support the variances due to the uh to what the whole project is for I understand um the tra the parking all that so I'm very supportive of it thank you thank you thank you anyone else comment uh oh I'll go unless you're ready um I uh I concur with staff's analysis that that the variances are warranted based upon the irregular shapes um of the Lots uh and the other factors identified in staff's report um so I I do intend to vote in favor of the granted those two parents ansers thank you very much thank you yeah I will Echo that as well um I appreciate the renderings from the from Fairy Lane to to see how this would interplay with the the residents on that side um yeah I and I I agree as well with the the variance request it it seems like this is um this is the exact situation where those are needed so thank you thank you very much yeah I um from listening to your presentation and the review of the documents submitted by staff I agree with the two variances and the um the variance for the aggregation of the three lots based on that two of them are not even of full size we'll call and the variance for the um side setbacks uh which basically Ro Helio if I understood correctly it doesn't reduce the side setbacks as it exists today that's correct okay yeah and then the uh waiver for the height on the parking garage uh I will say that um I don't know what goes on with bile Association and the residents that are not part of that Association that live on the North side of the island but to have called a meeting only a week ago of all of them um is hard hard to accept because they are the ones mostly affected um but I see that three people or two people have come in and said that they are in agreement with it I guess in the last week you had the opportunity to meet with them Michael and then the lady that came before us I don't know how many more residents on uh fairy lane or sentury Lane are there that um do not know what's going on or do not agree or agree um with the development I think it's a worthwhile project obviously it makes sense um but the people affected need to be included in all of this and I don't know how we can do that well I've known Joanne for a long time I think the world of her think she's great Joan okay and I'm very happy to sit down with her after the hearing walk through the plans and go through all the construction management conditions I think that'll give her a lot of uh peace if I do that and I will do that and how about how many more residents are in those two streets that are affected besides the two that spoke today well bear in mind a lot of them were at the meeting last week I think fairy Lane might have 11 home sites Sentry Lane I think has about four or five and we have support from homeowners on Century Lane um Steve Rose is Joanne's neighbor we you know we have his support and then then the merelli Katy properties we have their support and and Kim Martin is at three fairy Lane and she sits on the bile residents Association board and she was at the meeting last we have her support so again I'm not going to equival with Joanne if she feels disappointed in me that I didn't do enough Outreach I'm happy to sit down with her after this hearing and show her everything okay I think if maybe you sit with her and just go over a few things um happy to do that all right um I'm ready to make a motion if you want I'm sorry I thought you uh so I I do know you know based on the configuration of this what is how are you going to manage the construction and all the construction workers and and all of that well I think what Joan remembers the most is that we had a terrible FPL Transformer situation which is on the northeastern corner of our property and fairy Lane's like a te at the end so we had easy access and that's where Transformer was but here is going to be a little bit different I think that we can approach everything from uh Island Avenue especially because we have fairy Lane one and two to add to our construction circulation path so I think everything will flow through there we won't have to use fairy Lane at all so the plan is that's part of the initial demolition or that the two you're going to start there and then work your way down um thank you okay yeah and then do you know Rio like the they just built um the kabad building at the front in that same area were there any issues like complaints that the city had received or that was I mean is it is it hard I was the challenges of keeping that area I guess as traffic free as possible can it be done in that area or is there any you know Lessons Learned maybe from that that can be passed on to this project I I think there there are two different totally oper total operations you know the one does at traffic on certain days of the week um the I guess I mean during the construction dur during the construction I think it it it's it's construction so there's going to be difficulties but the fact that they're creating this new driveway will ease that um and I think in the long run um you're not going to have the back and forth that happens today with the valet going to Sunset to the Sunset Harbor garage and then back so every time somebody goes with valet I think they need to send two vehicles to bring the valet the person driving the car back so in the long run you're going to end up with a lot less traffic and a lot less traffic circulation on this site um I think the construction because of the two driveways they're going to be able to manage it a lot better than what they could do if they didn't have those two extra sites um they likely would need to use that that ta access if they weren't adding the driveways um so but it's construction so I'm sure there will be okay you know there's going to be trucks yeah and there's sort of a a a recourse or something if it does get if it does start I mean that street is very very small and it does start to affect the residents they can call the city and MH okay they um and they are profer some conditions on construction management staff is not opposed to these conditions we're we we we're okay with including them in the order okay um regarding the the construction management um cleaning the areas cleaning the vicinity during construction so okay we're we we're we're we're okay with these conditions the The Code Compliance will monitor if needed okay um so I will say I have to admit that when I first heard that improvements were going to be made to the hotel I was very nervous because like you said you know this is a beloved location um I've spent it's my favorite place to go for my birthday it's bring people you know when they come out of town um but and I was I was really pleasantly surprised by the design it's really beautiful um and it's not you know concerned with the height but I know that on that section of Belle Isle has gotten a little bit higher and higher and higher and I think that the transparency and the undulation the Rhythm um yeah it's very beautiful so thank you for that um that yeah that was my biggest concern that you know the character of the hotel would be affected um and so I'm I'm hoping that it it's not um and then even in the lobby tell us I know that's part of the scope of the work what is going to be done to renovate that or is that not necessarily worked out in detail yet not much not much we're looking to keep it as it is yes okay thank you thank you Sarah thank you um I wonder if there was any other questions I had I think oh this the other question too if could you just bring up just so we know exactly what we're getting in in in terms of the parts of the structure that are directly interacting with the residents on Fair Lane it seems what there's a you had written like a concrete Bria solle as almost a fence along the rear or along the the you want see the rendering from L perspective yes there was a lot of maybe you get to that if you could and then also the loading dock too I also just want to make sure that as you're pulling up Island Avenue it's not just you know you wanted matter of sure oh sure okay so there's there's a lot of there anyway they're going to see and and the residents who are going to be now having this sort of new fence behind this new concrete fence behind them they're aware of what they're now getting right okay yeah no I think it's it's a good project great thank you thank you thank you um does anybody want to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve the two variances and waiver do I need to state which one's Ro Helio no okay that's that's I'll second okay we have a motion by Miss B second by Mr Sheldon all those in favor by Mr defer apologize not that I wouldn't have seconded he was just faster my hearing is going okay uh all those in favor I I motion passes I should also see too I the I I read part of the traffic study um and yeah thank you for including the parking um I didn't realize how much more traffic that hit that's going to eventually be really nice so thank you for that welcome um them in s Harbor yeah everybody um another does anybody want to make a motion on the design the application or did we just do we do the waiver separately the VAR you already approved the variance in the waiver so now we need one for the design and if you'd like to include the conditions proferred by the applicant as well as part of the motion I'll make a motion except uh approving the design and the conditions proferred by the applicants I'll second that okay motion by Mr Defender for second by Miss Luen okay all those in favor I I motion passes great thank you all so much for your time and thank you for the Outreach that you have done with the residents more to do more to do more to do okay should we go back to the 1801 you're very welcome um is the representative for 1801 here ready to go yeah okay okay okay want yeah are you ready good morning all right start ready to start y okay uh an application has been filed requesting design review approval for the construction of a new one-story commercial building including a variance from the minimum landscape requirement bordering a temporary or provisional surface parking lot or budding a property line Street or sidewalk and one or more waivers replacing an existing two-story commercial building this is file number drb 24-105 and it's related to 1801 Alton Road um this item came before the design review board last month on September 3rd um the drb discussed the item they expressed some concerns to the applicant and they continued it to the October 1st meeting which is today um so the applicant has since submitted some revised plans um the staff has looked at uh the drb specifically last month uh had some concerns regarding that the site was underutilized the design did not have significant enough presence on what is a major intersection this is on 18th Street and and uh sorry D Boulevard and Alton Road um this the paved parking areas proposed were excessive and that there were insufficient pedestrian circulation areas um the applicant has since submitted revised plans to address these conc concerns um the so now with the new with the revised plans the sidewalks on Alton Road and dat Boulevard now have a continuous width of 10 ft um so this reduces the scope of the proposed waivers uh entrances to the structure are inset with a covering so they have a little little more improved pedestrian access improve pedestrian visibility to the entrances improve visibility for pedestrians to the entrances of the building um the exterior uh materials and finishes have been modified and now include exposed textured concrete and aluminum louvers in a wood finish um the height has been slightly increased to improve the presence at the intersection and the number of temporary parking spaces has been reduced in order to decrease the amount of overall the overall amount of pavement um and also provide additional trees plants in that area uh fronting dat Boulevard um staff believes that the proposed modifications address the board's concerns um and improve the presence of the building at the intersection on Dade Boulevard and Alton Road staff does agree that the site remains underutilized however we we do expect that the applicant will come forward soon with a with a project to develop the remainder of the site that is currently used as parking areas um so overall the the proposed the revised plans are significant improvement from what uh we saw last month um and staff is supportive of the application including the proposed waivers and variances waivers and variance thank you very much good morning good morning um Mickey morero tun at South bisc Boulevard with me my uh colleague Emily Balter our project architect Rene Gonzalez and the property owner Dominique Kevo um I appreciate you all giving me a few extra minutes I had donuts with Dad with my daughter at school today and I was able to make it and not scar her for life so we're here um that when I when I look at these applications and I and we come the first time whether it's this board HPB or other boards a lot of times we and the team were very excited about that first submitt list before you and then what often happens and what's happened here at least for me we look at your comments and the discussion that we had we come back we and then we give you something different and I got to tell you I think the whole team agrees what we have before you today is is certainly a big Improvement and we're very very happy through the process that we've gotten to where we are um I don't necessarily want to tell the whole story again I'm happy to if you all want to but I know that you all understand you were here last time this is a unique situation we have a tenant with Chase an important tenant to our to our client that because of their uh lease we want to keep them there we want to give them this new space But ultimately the goal here yeah and we agree that this project if this was all that we were doing is an underutilization of the site but the reason we're doing it is step one in a grander plan to significantly redevelop this site and and we've been you know talking to staff a little bit and that's coming soon but because of our you know relationship with Chase we do want to get this part moving we're pretty excited about the revised version I was going to kind of go through you know peace me all these changes roio did that and I think he did a good job going over them I do think that your comments were were well taken and we did everything possible to address them in a way that we all believe this is a fantastic uh response and something we're all very proud of um with that I Rene is here and if you have any questions for him on the design on where he got obviously we had a couple weeks to do this and they were able to to do I think an outstanding job in that short time so if if you have any questions for Renee he's here also Dominic is here and Dominic is is the owner of the longtime owner of this property um he lives two blocks away from the site he's been a member of this community he's involved with the association there and he's involved with his Building Association he's someone that's been involved in the community for a long time and he he really values uh his his his input to the community so he wants to see this site become the special thing that we think it's going to be and step one like I said is is getting this approval moving so we could start working on the next the next phase we think that the sidewalks are wider which I know is a concern to you all having the The Pedestrian element of of covered spaces towards the entrance we we've done that there's more Landscaping there's less parking and frankly forgetting all the conditions it just damn looks better it looks better it looks more interesting that that the materials are more exciting exciting so so with that we would of course entertain any questions you have and we'd love to get an approval today so we can move this forward um so with that any questions and we're here thank you thank you very much are there any other members of the public wish to speak no anyone online no hands raised online okay great I'm closing the public portion opening it up to the board for comment who would like to start on the revised design I'll begin um thank you oh are are you going to show the presentation at all or run through it thought it was actually up already I apologize I got too excited why don't we just go and put that up I was really I thought was it enough before it was it oh no it wasn't up the whole time that is my fault I'm looking at it thinking it was up I apologize but that is what I wanted to start with this is well go back one more that's what you saw last month um there's no question it's it's it's very different you I thought it was a nice building Rene thought it was a nice building I think we're both very proud of where we are today but we really took to heart the comment that it looked like a temporary structure and you know talking with Dominic and understanding he know he's going to see this every day and you know we didn't want that to be kind of his his kind of input to the community so that was a really big push and we we appreciate that from from the yeah and while the the balance of the site will be redeveloped this this will stay this is part of this is the part that's going to remain the building you see ready go back a couple of I mean not that they yeah I mean if you want to I know I skipped ahead too but if you want to go through it you know to to discuss the changes please do that okay so sure so going back to this page so the changes are um again we're maintaining the existing lease with with the bank tenant we kept we now have a continuous 10- foot sidewalk it was a challenge to do that before you all thought that was important we understand that so we we included that the height of the building is not drastically bigger but it's a little B bigger to create more of a prominence on the site uh there's now architectural coverings allowing for cover for weather and an architectural element um there's less glazing more textured concrete aluminum louvers wood finish all things that make the building a little more interesting a little more attractive and there's less Paving less temporary spaces more Landscaping on the overall site those I think are the changes why don't you kind of go through yeah now just here's a perspective from the corner and one more perspective from the side and there's a yeah and also one thing I didn't mention I think it was discussed wouldn't it be great to see a night rendering what's it going to look like at night um how's it going to be lit and and that's what we also added to the presentation so those are the changes I think the variances are still there but they're minimized because we do have now the 10 ft so it's less area uh is requested in the variances and those are really anything you want to add on on how you got to this modified version yes I mean really again back to those uh those comments uh where the um the landscape or the the asphalt was an issue and I believe uh one of the board members was really concerned you know with with that like we just make it a tree bank but obviously we don't want to do that but we wanted to definitely add let me get to that landscape right there yeah if you could run us through the the the revised landscape and and what you've done how you reor the par on the revised landscape here you can see along long day Boulevard we took out five spaces uh that were on the the southeast uh and made that complete landscape so it adds to the buffering of that temporary parking uh we also added a median uh in the center of the parking so it creates a one-way sorry I don't know if I can zoom in on that but no um it creates a oneway um traffic uh for that temporary spaces that are alongside Chase which just adds a little of sorry more accessibility um to to the site which we wanted to keep uh because that just can allow some member you know some patrons of Chase to actually utilize that parking and go directly to the building for for the temporary time being um so we did add that buffer and we did add that shade tree in the center median to really just kind of reduce that heat island effect to reduce that asphalt uh coverage so that was really important for us um but you know in terms of you know I know uh Miss Nelson you didn't really like the roof but I think in this case when it's when it was paired with the temporary structure uh it didn't fit but now that we have you know something you know in the in the sense of um sorry kind of in the sense of this you know we're we're dealing with textured concrete and I've had some comments in the past you know with with concerns over exposed architectural concrete but in this case I've learned my lessons and you know we're looking at like a sand blasted textured homogeneous looking concrete you know that wouldn't really reflect any kind of um let's say construction errors with concrete so uh I've learned that lesson and we're going to have a beautiful uh portal and a beautiful top uh I know there were some talk about maybe putting you know an extended canopy but all that really made it look was like a top hat and it just looked really strange and I thought these having a d double uh kind of uh glazing or double um awning uh really added to a couple things natural daylighting uh help block a lot of it with our louvers and then at these portals it could help reflect a lot of that lighting from that uh middle awning uh at the entrances it does definitely um allow for you know pedestrians kind of duck in there if it does you know downpour you know in the middle of the summer uh and I think you know this really adds and softens the facade it brings a lot of texture to that corner uh it invites pedestrians uh to walk there and not be afraid to to walk on that that side of the street so um I feel like we've addressed everything and and really tried to to push and definitely Mr defender's comment is like Why Can't This be 10 feet this new construction you know for the sidewalks um we definitely just shifted the building North you know accommodate accommodated that so that we anything in the future you know can can be part of this resiliency and that circulation zone for sure thank you you're welcome um I okay so we did this a little bit out of order but I'm going to go ahead and and and I just few things to clarify about the um so I'm not a landscape architect I just want to make sure that that I'm understanding the landscape design appropriately um so thank you thank you for these changes and I agree it's it's it's amazing what you know a different envelope how it can transform um the so and I like how you did rework this parking lot and and putting a large tree in the center let me it seems now on the plan and I'm looking I guess I'm looking at the presentation page 19 um that you've put on the edge of the parking lot three palm trees correct with some undercover and then in the layer beyond that there are larger shade trees or those shrubs there are larger shade trees along the street Edge um we do have a landscape architect available by Zoom but um but yes they are larger shade trees and we have a layering of the Shrubbery in the undercover so as you get to the sidewalk it layers you know kind of blow and then gradually goes up to like where it is at the parking and that's more of the cover more of the Hedge uh but it is layered so that you can really you know experience the sidewalk so okay I appreciate that because there are and I think this came up last time I'm always surprised at how many people are walking around this corner I guess they're coming from Sunset Harbor and maybe going to the apartments and that corner in particular it's just it's so Sunny there's no shade so I I I would keep encouraging you to I'm happy that you put shade trees along the sidewalk um Alo these along Alton will grow to be bigger shade trees as well and we have that layering effect too I would even encourage this one corner you know a corner there to put as many trees as possible is really appreciated by people in the community that are walking around um yeah there's a surprising amount of foot traffic right to encourage that um I think we we reduce the trees here because they were too they would block the architectural rendering but if you recall that actually this part of the landscape architecture um on this street on Alton didn't change so if you recall the previous renderings which I know we don't have here but we have what they're intended to be and what they're intended to be uh purchased at you know at the time of construction you know larger caliper uh Trunks and a taller tree uh but these trees would definitely provide shade along along Alton you know just directly across from Michaels so it it's kind of have that Corridor effect nice thank you and then I I do like the um sort of the eyebrows or awnings that you put did you explore having them come out more I I did and it you know to come out just at the entrances felt like you know just a a like an also a temporary nod like not something that felt developed or felt like it was integral to the to the structure or to the facade um when we kind of did the whole eyebrow around the building just to kind of give more shade um it felt like like I said it looked like a top hat it looked really strange so I wish I could have just shown you the development but I I went through several iterations uh three-dimensionally to really look at what that would feel like um and then on top of that it would also be you know in public works as perview because we're right there in the property so it is a revocable permit at that point uh I wanted to avoid that and keep the architecture kind of um not dependent on something that could be revoked so that that was a a primary concern for me okay thanks yeah no I um I mean with all the shade trees too you've you've accomplished that and it seems like even with the new building you're not necessarily going to be building in the Swale and perhaps those trees could stay yeah oh yeah for sure you know so um no everything I think the only um trees that might be affected um if I go down to the landscape uh would probably be the Three Palms in the shade tree in in the center of the temp temporary parking uh everything else um generally the shrubs would probably have to be replaced that are closer to the property line along Dade uh Dade has a very strange property line relationship because the property line almost goes to the curb it's a very weird Jagged that the property line really just like kind of rides the curve um but in that case we're we're complying with the resiliency code and the transition and the circulation uh but really it would be those three Palms um you know in any of the kind of trees that are that are in and around the temporary in the center in the center of the of the property uh and then maybe that one shade tree that's at the you can kind of see it at the East side of the building uh you see kind of at the corner of the temporary parking lot uh those would have to be relocated and you know we're thinking within the property and within the within the structure itself as well great great because it is going to be a a you know the future structure would right after a few years of growth then yeah okay that's that's very good to hear um and then you you kept flipping through there was a roof plan um I think let me see here so all that area in the green that's all the planter that's going to be hanging down or not necessarily that's all the that's the 50% requirement that we have and that's all the it's going to be also a layered effect but so it would have the creepers that go along the edge um our landscape architect is pushing a lot for something a little bit more substantial on the center to scen any of the mechanical uh that we have oh wait so this is this is the what am I looking at here sorry that's that's the roof yeah the roof of the building yeah that's the roof of the structure yeah just showing the percentage of that roof that is that is green yeah that's green okay yeah that's what I thought okay yeah so that was the roof plan sorry right so and is there I don't access how do you get up to the roof I wasn't seeing internally near the mechanical area we'd probably put a roof hatch near the mechanical component and you see if I have it's not like it's not an active roof but it is a beautify that's what well it needs access no I mean we're we're sort of we've become newly concerned with roof structures that aren't in the thing in the designs that we see and then suddenly appear right so that's why I ask but we do have or we did have a mechanical screen somehow it disappeared from my plan um but it is there is a mechanical screen that we did design and so that could be a condition because I know that's uh a big part of the design review boord uh and I'm pretty sure it's already a condition in to be reviewed in the draft order I'm pretty sure because it's probably in every single draft order right um but we did have that designed and I think previously it was designed more of an oval and in this case we designed it to be more of a rectangular with curved edges kind of an iPhone shape uh just to be more in compliance with this design and based on the size of the the structure do you think you would see that from the street or not necessarily it's going to be in the middle no I mean we you would see maybe just the like the top edge of it but not really CU part of uh what Mickey presented is that we did raise close to 5T to the structure so now we're about 25 ft you would definitely not see it from Alton yeah um I mean if you were maybe in the garage at Michaels right uh you would definitely see it um but you wouldn't perceive it if you were anywhere near 20 fet from the building or even 50 ft from the building you because the the this parap penel on the top it's it's higher correct yeah and I and I see if I have the I don't have the sections here but if you have the full presentation in the in the rear we have sections of the building and those have um those have the parit height So within the structure we have 5T oh I see of parit ah okay that's enough yeah know it's it's plenty so if we have the roof structure here we have about 5T going vertical from the roof structure and typically they request like a 5ft mechanical screen just to kind of cover those um so if we have a beautiful screen around it maybe you'll see the top Edge if you're somewhere in Sunset Harbor walking great to but if you're a pedestrian you will never see it okay thank you yeah no and thank you for adding the green element on the roof so any other comments I feel like I I have a question so thank you so much for first of all the sidewalks I really really appreciate it and I know everybody really will and it doesn't it's obviously not the same building there's so many things I really like about it I love the curve on the corner the sign the higher ceilings it's going to make I remember being a kid and going to the bank when it was like an event like a thing and this is what it reminds me of why do you not have the entrance in that corner though cuz there's a that corner begs by the way I'm driving by every I didn't even notice this last night it's this morning and I'm like oh my God that's not a door and I'm like that it looks like an entrance and if I'm driving or walking particularly the all the pedestrians that's where they're going to gravitate towards and it's just I doesn't sound like a political sound bite but it's a climate change um resiliency and the resiliency code that we have uh from the elevation that we have at the current curb level it's almost three or four feet to to get to that level so um we could you know maybe try to implement some Monumental type stair or everything I think that kind of took away from the function of the building it would make it a little bit but I think it was like so Grand it didn't really fit with the building but it's really the height to get to the thing so what we're actually doing is modifying the side Sidewalk on Alton to actually ramp up to get us to a level that's within a a kind of like a um let's call it an acceptable stair height so that people aren't like chugging up 10 10 steps to to the to get it's sad to me I I hear what you're saying and I'm not going to tank my approval for that but um I mean I listen I love the transparency of that corner b with the louvers around the rest of the building but it it totally looks like that's where the entrance is supposed to be especially the sign above it and I would need an extra I would need need an extra almost 10 ft to push the building North to accommodate a St I mean the in the room would know maybe one maybe accessibility you know we you know I'm all for it but it it does take a lot of area I get it but then it does beg the question the entrance which is the entrance is off the parking lot or it's on Alton Road it's on Alton Road we have a we have another Ada so I see with that respect our Ada ramp is currently on the temporary side of the parking lot so that on the back side of the temporary side let me see if I can up so there's going to be signage above those doors on the West Side yes yes oh well primarily over the corner but yes there would be signage uh if needed on the on the west side but on the east side facing the temporary lot that's where our current Ada ramp which is close to 35 ft long um is located please come up with a solution that's not like a little engraved sign that says entrance that way because you know like no I mean and and again on on the E side is we're going to integrate that with the the new structure so any kind of heights we're going to try to eliminate any kind of um you know technical looking Ada ramps everything's going to be integrated to uh the base flood elevation design flood elevation that is required for the new structure so on the east side that's one thing on the on the Alton side you know we've done our best to kind of um so this shows the 88 ramp on the screen if you want to pull that up on the east side you know that little there you go um that's how we get there temporarily Ada wise on this side okay uh we can enter uh with a couple steps here um again you know just the the distance I'd have to push East the whole building just to get the height if I were to leave the elevation of Alton sidewalk the way where it is um just because of the it's almost three feet difference so it's a resiliency it's it's a shame but you did a great job I mean I don't want to take away from how much I appreciate it's just a completely different thing and I think um you listen to us and I think it's such a better project thank you so much thank you thank you for your changes um if you can go back to the site plan page yes okay so so tell me what will eventually happen and when uh with this site this building that you're presenting today will continue to stay with its existing height and design and then what will happen in the parking and surrounding in the parking area I guess um so I do want to within the the current proposed structure I do want to in incorporate some columns that'll be with able to be added onto if there was something to come above because we still have the air rights of everything above uh so the idea is that if that can create another uh space almost like in an amenity area you know another 20 foot high Gap but still have structure uh come above um that's an idea there but the idea is to utilize 100% of the site so if you noticed in our you know the two or three years ago we had a parking structure that that was on the North uh kind of skinny portion of the site uh we're actually gonna utilize that as as entrances and also on the Alton side utilize our negotiations with fot uh to really expand that uh driveway uh to a two-way driveway and allow parking entrance there which which would be more if you can imagine uh a driveway with a valet and so everything that we kind of previous ly designed um can't really point to it but if you see north of our proposed structure those parking spaces those Ada spaces become kind of like a valet roundabout internally that you've seen in so many of uh of these mixed use and high-rise buildings and those that would provide access to uh the retail and Commercial spaces that are going to be along date Boulevard and then what happens above is primarily parking and then it's up to the client at that point you know whether we have had more commercial uh for office uh with cd1 we are you know limited on on height and things like that but uh we had proposed office before and we would propose that again and the um with the area behind the parking lot or the parking spaces that are to I guess that's the north on 18th Street that's that you I think either going to you're going to build more of the building where the temporary parking lot is now where you're putting the big tree that's going to be fil in with structure yeah all the parking north of our proposed structure and the temporary parking that kind of trapezoidal shape would be the base building uh we would also improve the north to either be you maybe two three levels of parking uh on that strip that leads that entrance is through 18th Street and I've designed that before so I'm pretty famili you know over three four years several times and part of the reason that we're sort of speaking in generalities is because as you know the pro the property is on cd1 now and for its prominent location and everyone knows this site cd1 is the lowest level commercial zoning so it's very limiting it's 1.0f so it's always been challenging to do what the site demands with that zoning currently the city the state and but primarily the city is going through a lot of legislative changes uh incentivizing Workforce housing potentially mixed use projects there's all kinds of stuff going on that it's ongoing so in all likelihood those incentives those all that legislation will be incorporated into What's happen what's going to happen here but we're kind of letting that process happen and we'll be coming back I think sooner than than may could be within the next year I I think but a lot a lot dependent on what happens legislatively at the commission level and what's going on at the state we just want to make sure we take this opportunity to make this special we think it can be thank you and was there ever any discussion well I guess it doesn't necessarily fit that program to just sort of creatively reuse the building that's there or it doesn't really work with agenda had if you recall we had that prior approval it's it's in that if you want to go back to it it's but it's just ultimately the limiting the limiting amount of space that we could get there and the cost of construction just didn't make sense so that project while we thought it was wonderful was abandoned because it didn't work didn't pencil out so now with these additional incentives We Believe something will be able to happen Okay thank you did you have any other comments or follow-ups anybody else have any thoughts or no no just thank you um I I actually didn't have a problem with the initial building but after seeing these comments it's infinitely better I think that the material choice just it you know the building of course lends to more to be developed but now this really stands on its own with the materials now and um thank you for really showing the vision of what the Landscaping looks like on on date because that was that was my main concern last time but um um yeah it looks looks great thank you thank you anybody want to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve the the order as as drafted a second including the variances in the in the waiver correct yes okay uh motion by Miss Leen second by Miss W all those in favor I motion passes congratulations very much enjoy the rest of your day thank you I just want to say thank you appreciate it thank you I'm a Miami Beach resident for 26 years this is a legacy property for my two beautiful daughters they're 13 and 15 I'm on the board of the yach club of Sunset Harbor I'm on the board of the architectural committee for the town homes of sensor Harbor this is my neighborhood um and as Renee said I walk by it all the time so I want to make sure it's something that I'm proud of and that's beautiful and that's also walkable and and provides connectivity please speak into the microphone sorry so so anyway I just want to say thank you again um this is a very important project uh because I I I live two blocks away and uh it's going to be beautiful thank you guys only the owner he's a neighbor in support too yeah no I think that we all really appreciate you know we're also members of the community to have somebody who has that extra um I don't want to say motivation but just sort of the buyin to have the larger Community interest at heart so thank you very much and it it's evident um and I I think on all of our behalf I'm happy to hear that our comments were constructive and I do appreciate that that your team recognized that we're here to improve and move forward together as opposed to be oppositional so and that's one of the ugliest Parts I think of Alton Road and it borders all our neighborhoods and it's so nice to see your project now is going to be part of the architectural Legacy we're leaving with the Whole Foods and the other stuff coming along I think it's really going to be a whole different ball game yeah I kept thinking of the Whole Foods and how that has lots of Landscaping on the outside and this is going to be a nice addition to it yeah and I just want to share one thing although we don't you know have plans for a future site we have some ideas obviously as Mickey said there's a lot of legislation happening but the phase two if you will is to provide connectivity and walkability from Lincoln Road from Sunset Harbor to this area because this is kind of kind of in its own little Oasis lost right now so that is the plan going forward so we'll be back in front of you hopefully with something that's incredible and so I just want to say thank you again thank you thank you and I think having all the extra trees will help that you know I wish there was more I would have put more trees along Alton but at least it encourages people to walk more um yeah so thank you thank you have a wonderful day thank you all thank you guys see you soon okay should we move on to that there is there just one more um item with a variance that's correct okay great so should I call it uh drb 24141 900 West Avenue yes okay so this is an application has been filed requesting design review approval for modifications to an existing Residential Building including new finishes lighting and signage including a variance uh to allow for signage with non- individual Channel letters um just for background this is um uh the Southgate Towers uh on West Avenue um it's an existing building the building was originally built um in um 19 I believe 1950 50 did I have the date I didn't include the date from the 50s um the the um the building has gone through some updates over time there have been several projects that have come to the design review board to approve uh modifications uh there was one in 2010 uh another one in 2013 uh and another one in 2021 where the drb approved various updates to the to the building to modernize the building um the building's in the rm3 district um it's on a lot that's 17492 Square ft um has a an existing F of 147,50 square ft or an F 1.17 um in this case the applicants proposing um some mod modifications to the ground level primarily um the modifications are intended to improve the sense of arrival of at the building and enhance the architecture of the building uh specifically The Proposal includes updating the existing canopy structure at the main entrance with new finishes lighting and signage uh the canopy will be reclad with glazed tile columns um and a not wood metal ceiling uh the front entry Circle will receive new landscaping and a redesigned Fountain um the storefront at the main lobby is proposed to be demolished and replaced with a nanowall system um and addition and also the applicant will be proposing uh building identification sign above the canopy uh the applicant is requesting a variance for that sign to allow for cursive script um the staff believes that the proposed changes enhance the building feature and are compatible with the building's architecture um and I'll discuss the the reason for the variance on that signage in a moment um on the rear of the building on the pool entry side the applicants proposing to demolish the existing ground level facade and replace that with a sliding glass door nanowall um the applicant is also proposing to construct a new Terrace with stairs that enter the pool deck and the pool with new landscaping and there would be an a 5 foot tall um glass pool fence around the uh around the pool area um the variance is as a result of a requirement in the code um that requires that signs shall consist of individual letters to allow for non-individual channel letters they're proposing a cursive script and cursive script letters touch each other um so it's it's really a a a minor technicality for the request for the variants um the the sign does comply with the intent of the of the code requirement which is for signs not to be overly cluttered for letters to be separated for signs to be welld designed and and and staff believes that this is a practical difficulty and the sign does comply with the intent of the code um I believe that's it um anything else that I'm missing I think that's it so with that staff recommends that the uh design review board uh approve the project uh with the conditions enumerated the draft order and uh and the variants okay great thank you very much thank you and can you see the presentation do we I'm not sure if we were supposed to do something to yeah great okay wonderful the ability wonderful yep there we go okay wonderful thank you so much um good morning Madam chair and members of the drb my name is Barb framl I am senior director of government and community relations for air communities we are the owner of 900 West AV which we call Southgate Towers I'm here with my colleague Dan door and then also our architect from triba Architects Bill Moon um and I thought I'd start off with just a brief background about our company because we are the new owners of Southgate Towers we own and operate apartment communities Nationwide and um including 12 communities and about 5,000 units in southeast Florida in Miami Beach it's um we've got Southgate and we also are the owner of the flamingo um we strive to to be the best owner and operator of apartment communities in the business resident and employee satisfaction are our top priorities and we're very proud to have received several National and Regional Awards including ranking second in the nation in Resident satisfaction among our peers and receiving top workplace Awards both nationally and here in South Florida um we're also big Believers in building Community we have an a program called air gives where every one of our teammates across the country gets 15 paid hours of leave to do volunteer work in the community and the photos on the screen here are of our Southeast Florida team um doing a beach Cleanup in cron Park kisc so if you guys hear of an event here in Miami Beach that needs a lot of volunteer work let us know please give us a call um our business model is to continually invest in our communities and so that's what brings us here today we are proposing a minor renovation um at Southgate Towers that affects the exterior of the building both at the main entrance and at the exit um so on either side of the lobby um uh at the main entrance and then on the exit to the pool um these exterior improvements complement interior improvements that we're proposing to do the to the lobby which is a separate permited project um and they're based on feedback that we've received from our residents um over the past couple of years since we've owned the building so January 2023 is when we uh became owners of Southgate Towers um we survey our residents regularly and so some of the feedback we've received so far is that they would like an improved entry experience um there's some congestion that is occurring at the entrance between residents and package deliveries so um they'd like to make that experience more efficient and effective um they're looking for more community space in the lobby at self um which isn't part of this application but that is part of the lobby improvements um and so in this application as rahelio mentioned um you'll see uh improvements to the front entrance canopy signage the fountain landscaping and um the entrance doors themselves um and then also the transition to uh from the lobby to the pool in the back um this design is more sophisticated and refined than what is there today and the intent is to enhance the overall experience um of entering the building but also while honoring the architectural history of this property and also Miami Beach um we have reached out to the community and have received some really helpful feedback on this application um overall the response has been positive however some members of the community expressed some concern about the neon sign that was put in our original application they were worried about light layer from the neon and so what you'll see in the presentation today that is not in the application is an alternate sign proposed that um meets the same intent but is a backlit sign instead of neon and and Bill can explain that more um and yeah I'll have him go through the design and then I'll come back and talk a little bit more about our public Outreach process great thank you Barb Bill moon with tribe Architects um as Barb said this is a a fairly minor remodel on the exterior uh starting at the front entry just a quick map of uh where Southgate is located uh and this is a map showing uh the limited scope of work at the front entry uh including uh minor Landscaping at the entry signage uh reworking of the existing fountain in front of the canopy uh some minor work at the canopy which is really uh part of the uh introduction that we' heard from the community of a uh kind of a more transparent approachable warmer Eng Rance uh and then that Lobby space right now does not connect to the exterior pool space um directly and there was a real desire that it's much more transparent and directly connected to that back pool deck so those are the three areas of scope of work that we're looking at enlarged here going through some details um really starting from the bottom inward we're looking at some minor right now around the entry sign there's zero Landscaping so we're looking at adding some minor landscape in there to soften that area around the front entry canopy uh there's an existing um uh fountain that is also has a wall uh between the canopy and the fountain that we'd like to remove uh repurpose those columns uh repurpose the um the fountain with uh refreshed Landscaping right now there's um some beautiful uh palm trees that have also have some overgrown shrubs we' like to REM keep the palm trees but refresh that Landscaping with more appropriate Landscaping of scale so that it's much more transparent towards front entry door uh we're looking at the canopy itself uh the signage here I'll show you in a moment uh but at the canopy itself we're looking at um running through you can see to the left what's existing today we're keeping the exact same geometry and architecture we're simply removing a portion of the wall up front that's a half height wall at the columns and then uh introducing a Knotwood material uh at the bottom of the canopy itself it's much more warmer and illuminated so it's a much more entry or transparent welcoming entry uh removing the existing storefront which is a pair of kind of sliding doors and as bar said it right now interfaces with everybody coming to the building whether you're a resident a visitor the Amazon delivery person or anybody else you come in and out that front door contributing to congestion uh by having a new nanowall system with a pair of doors next to it it enables us to uh on appropriate uh weather days be able to open the entire Lobby open um we also are having the delivery trucks uh have designated parking over towards uh the left there's a separate entry that goes directly into a package delivery room so it kind of separates that service from the residences and that was a very big deal that we had heard directly from the residents to take care of that uh and then as we get uh into the pool area to the left is the existing storefront so it's important to know we're not modifying the entire facade this is a very small area existing storefront we're simply replacing that with nanowall the ex exact same proportion and geometry of the storefront will be repeated in the nanowall it simply will be it gives an opportunity to open up that uh that Lobby directly to the pool area um and you can see to the left uh the existing landscape some of that the Shrubbery is starting to become overgrown and we want to just basically uh tighten up and uh really bring back the original landscape and tent um that was there uh you can see the beginnings of the new signage that we're talking about with the script uh that was keeping in with some local tradition uh originally it was proposed to be neon but again hearing from the community that was something they didn't desire we're looking at uh just uh LED illuminated Channel letters that will be compliant with the city ordinances in terms of the amount of Illumination so this is what we um are proposing now for the signage in Li of the neon keeping the same design intent but having the back Channel illumination much more friend this was what was submitted originally as neon this is what we're proposing uh for the signage for the back uh back illuminated Channel letter yeah so just a little bit uh more about our community engagement process so we did send um out well with the city's help uh 949 notifications to everybody Within 375 ft of Southgate Towers all all Property Owners we reached out to the wava board and also met with them and uh walked through this presentation and got some wonderful feedback from them um we uh the public hearing signage was posted on the site um we also met with some residents and some of the commercial tenants um and uh you'll you'll see in your packet that there's uh letters of support one from uh the owner of the pple Moose Restaurant which is located on the ground floor of our building um and then two from um residents of Southgate who are also um uh employees of ours who one is the community manager and one is the service manager um and then as mentioned there were um you know over I think we've received I don't remember the exact word but number but it was over 1,200 um surveys over the the past um you know 20 months or so since we've owned the building um and you know we're addressing many of the common requests that um come in those surveys so um I think that's all we have for you today we'd be happy to answer any questions thank you very much are there any other uh members of the public wishing to speak anyone online we have one hand raised online it's a phone number it's 1410 279 9575 can you you're you're on mute can you unmute yourself oh yeah I did uh just a click hand no I did not um any visual raise hand if they're using no the star n is just if you're if you're by phone all right um okay they disconnected uh Michael Gro yeah can you hear me yes we can hi Michael hi um oh I apprciate hi just a minute um I just need to swear you in really quickly before you start please uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in in is proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth absolutely all right thank you Michael you may proceed yes it's just uh opinion from the uh the public um I think the improvements uh look very nice I just would encourage the board to to the extent their possible Ty approvals to uh the property opening up their Baywalk which I think the community really deserves access to it's apparently ready to go and it's not clear why we're not able to use that so um that's just my thoughts thank you thank you very much um Daniela magazine hello hello hi hi Dan can you hear us yeah oh yeah I I just need to uh sow you in really quickly before you proceed uh do you swear and or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in this proceeding is a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I S all right thank you please proceed okay well my name ising I live in 650 West Avenue with my family including my seven-year-old daughter py the neighborhood has been working on expanding actions to the bwalk for years and one of the best things for the entire neighborhood would be if the property owner agreed to open the Baywalk to the public behind your property thank you thank you so Daniela sorry it was a little bit garbled you said that you were just encouraging the applicant to open up the Baywalk for Community use is that correct okay sh can you unmute yourself to that you you received a question danela oh yes H yes that's what I was saying I would love that I think that's very important for our community thank you very much okay thank you okay next we have sea Patrick Bryant bile uh good morning hi good morning Sean I just need to swear you in really quickly before you proceed please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in as proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you all right thank you you may proceed I just want to make a a similar uh comment regarding the Baywalk you know this goes Way Way Back um and we had discussions about opening that Baywalk which is complete it was tied to a improper drb um R um finding like many years ago where they the drb agreed to pay $190,000 for offense I was at the commission meeting years ago where we were saying that the bayw walk's ready to be open open it up um anyway uh previously the city would always always work with um these properties and when they came before the city requesting variances that's really in my opinion the power where the city has to negotiate opening these bayw walks so um they're here before us um it looks like they have a very good project uh but the Baywalk is ready to open it's got a a lock on it h they want a variance I really do think the city needs to use their negotiating skills to to ask these de Vel opers as part of getting something from the city to improve their property the public should get something back and that should be opening the Baywalk thank you thank you very much for your comment any was that it anybody else one more Jonathan Luna hello Jonathan can you hear us yes good morning hi good morning I just need to S you in really quickly uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you'll be giving in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes all right thank you you may proceed yes good morning uh so my my name is Jonathan Luna I'm a resident of Southgate uh I provided constructive uh feedback to the architect to the the plan and uh to the to the building management and um I support the renovation plants and as long as I like I said provided the interal upgrades that I've suggested are addressed um and I just hearing this stuff about the Baywalk um uh again I know this is not part of the application however I do oppose opening the north bay walk because there's too much of a high presence of homelessness in that area um but I understand the residents would love to walk um along the Baywalk but yeah that's about it thank you very much Jonathan and that's all we have okay excellent I'm now going to close the public portion and open it up to the board for comments did you want to begin sure uh thank you for your presentation and congratulations on getting Southgate it's a beautiful um part of our city and our history and congratulations on your program air gives I'm sure the city when they learn more about it they will definitely take you up on your volunteer program um I guess all of us want to know about the Baywalk but um before you go into the situation with the Baywalk opening can you tell me this uh proposed signage with the lighting behind it is the one uh closest to um West Avenue yes correct it it will be located on the front of the of the canopy correct yes okay and I think that separating um the deliveries um from the guest and um resident entrances makes a whole lot of sense um especially from a security standpoint and congestion um tell us about the Baywalk and what the situation is there yes thank you um and I'm glad this came up we're we're just as enthusiastic about the Baywalk as um I think all Miami Beach residents are on on the Bay Side anyway um so the condition that we um received when we purchased the building was that the Baywalk is already constructed at at the property um it was constructed by the previous owner and I think one of the um one of the residents um or commenters mentioned that there's a former drb order that had some conditions in it for when the Baywalk would open up to the public um and so that order was a couple of years ago and it um I don't have the details fully memorized but basically it's when the adjacent um Baywalk segments opened up then our segment would open up as well um so my and I have been in uh close touch with the city on this um my understanding is that the segment to the north is currently under construction and we're actually going to go tour that today with the city and with the property owner to the north of us um and so basically we we are in full support of opening up the Baywalk to the um to the public we are um our expectation though is that the drb order the the provisions in that order will be met and um and as I understand it that's moving forward and so then um all those segments will open up at the same time and then what about the entrance from the south the entrance the the Baywalk segment my understanding is that one is um more delayed and it may have to do with is there a pedestrian bridge or something else that's being constructed I'm not as familiar with the scope of the Baywalk to the South I just know that the segment to the north is moving faster than the segment to the South but I'll get an update today from the city I I live in this neighborhood so so now I'm I'm kind of interested in the Baywalk now too the residents have brought it up um I live to the south of the property to the south of you okay so I don't think that the over overw walk to the South will you know impact that um the building I live in it is open to the public um so I guess the the stoppage would be the building in between um but I guess so is there hesitation to open it even when the the building to the north is open you want to wait for either side to be open you know I think we'd have to revisit it I tomorrow or this afternoon is going to be the first time that um we're getting a tour of the construction to the north and um you know I'll take this feedback back to our leadership I know that there's a lot of enthusiasm around it and so um we'll we'll talk to the city and see what can be done um also I'd like to get an update on you know when when we think it will open to the South and be constructed to the South um as our resident mentioned you know we have a concern about opening it and having a a um segment of trail that goes nowhere because there could be nefarious activity that happens um and we'd like to you know preserve everybody's comfort and safety um so we do want to make sure that if it if when it does open then it's actually connecting to um to other parts of the trail where does this Baywalk originally begin and end that is a good question I know so we're the owners of the Flamingo and it is open up on that North SE section of the neighborhood um I'm not sure where the boundaries are though how far it goes I don't it's not very long cuz I've walked it and it's you know maybe a quarter of a mile that's open on in the north part of the neighborhood and then in the South it's sort of segments here and there that aren't quite connected to each other yet but at this at this time the property to your South and the property to the north are under construction or some amount of renovation that keep anyone from going through the back of those prop to the Baywalk of those properties so no one can actually use the Southgate Baywalk even though that's completed because they would have have to enter through your property in the front of the building through West Avenue to get to your Baywalk um I there are I think public easements on the streets to the North or South so I think they the public actually does have access back there okay currently and they if if the if our segment of the Baywalk wasn't locked they would be able to get back there okay um does that answer your question yes yeah we we have David Gomez here from CIP if you have any specific questions on the Baywalk or the status of the Baywalk yeah I mean what is the status of Baywalk I think that seems to be the question thank you good morning David Gomez intern director for CIP uh quick status on the Baywalk there are currently four segments that are pending construction that the city is managing uh one of them is part of the West Avenue project and we'll proceed in the next two years should be complete uh the project immediately to the north of this one uh is currently under construction under a development agreement and should be completed before the end of the year uh the property immediately to the South is one of the segments that the city is completing a feasibility study and we're working with that property to Iron Out final agreements on on how that layout Works um between design permitting and construction it'll be about two years before that segment is open uh the PED bridge is part of the development agreement which should be beginning Construction in the next 30 days um and should be done by the end of next year uh the bridge itself doesn't impact the use of the bayw walks and then is there um I guess an ordinance or just a procedure that when a building is under construction the Baywalk behind it is closed it depends on the activity um if there's certain activity that will impact the use of the Baywalk and for safety reasons they have to close it then I imagine that to be the case um because there are segments that are non-existent at the moment there are pieces that that just get interrupted uh so we're hoping that in the next 24 to 36 months the entire Baywalk system will be complete and so do you think it would be appropriate to have the Southgate Towers open might make their Baywalk accessible although it's just for a small portion or I the advantage to this particular property is that there is public access on through 10th Street which will connect to the segment to the north uh and there is Public Access or or Ingy Andress on the South Side so it is a a segment that could be open right now yeah okay except that would not go um would not be in agreement with the drb order that both properties on the North and South would have to be opened I believe I'm I'm sorry no go ahead I believe the drb order was specific to the property to the South um and that one's going to be a little longer before it's done okay so then what would be your recommendation the the administration is looking to open as much of the Baywalk as quickly as possible so that South Gate should open up their Gates although it's just a small portion correct make it available because it is a public amenity correct okay but at this point because of the drb order from approximately two years ago the Baywalk behind South Gate cannot open until the south portion is open and the north portion is open per the drb order that for the drb order and we don't we can't change that order um or can we I don't know but I'm sure that there were reasons why the drb order was uh specified that manner probably with a recommendation from Administration just for the safety of the residents that would be behind um those facilities now that being said there's a good case in that behind South Gate that the the Baywalk has access through those um easements on the side north and south of of uh Southgate is that correct there's yes there's Public Access I I don't know are they easement I'm not sure I believe they're Street ends Street ends yes that are open to the public so it'd be a walk of just the area behind um Southgate which is really a walk to to nowhere but um still it is public prop you know public water from property that people could go and sit there and enjoy the view that should be open I don't understand I I mean I was on the drb two years ago and I don't remember what is the building that is to the South that's South Bay Club the South Bay Club and there's no there's no Baywalk there at all current the issue it ends effectively behind Southgate is where the Baywalk ends and the same thing with the North and ends right it's only Built right South Gate right now so you don't have any Baywalk be on the north end either it's under construction so I guess it's a a legal question if we um decide that we want to request that the Baywalk behind Southgate be opened what does it take to change a previous drb order if it can even be changed I don't know uh no unfortunately well yeah the drb cannot cannot unilaterally modify condition of a previous order um if the majority of the drb wants to incorporate a condition um the applicant must voluntarily consent to it understand so so I I don't understand I'm sorry we can and we cannot say say that again for my my purposes I I missed out we can pass an order if to change the previous order no no you may not no so basically it needs to be closed until the drb order of keeping of opening the South and the north is available to be opened yes yes um as as you mentioned before um there was an order from the JB um I believe it was from 2012 that set forth the conditions of the Baywalk and one of the conditions was that the applicant is not obligated to open the Baywalk to the public until the connections to the South Bay Club is completed um which means that the South Bay Club must be fully completed um and yeah so if the majority of so if the majority of the board wants to incorporate such a condition um the applicant has to voluntarily acest to that otherwise you cannot force it upon on them through through an order and so to clarify that was from 12 years ago not two years ago correct so in the 12 years the Baywalk there hasn't been built and so that's why it's not open correct so I kind of see a compromise here I understand um it's frustrating because it's not contiguous yet and it's really frustrating I live on B where 31 Venetian Way was forced to open a Baywalk that's not contiguous to anything so it's basically a dead end but it's used I understand the homeless situation it's a little sketchier off West Avenue um but what I would say is I I would be inclined to make it to uh pass this variants if you were willing to open the Baywalk when the property of the north opens so that at least you have two properties and not just one dead- end property that will be their whole responsibility so that would be my cuz I was ready to say no way for a variance even though I like your project but at this point I would say within 30 days or something of the north side opening make this have to open at least that because then you have two contiguous next to each other and it's more it's not such a big problem as I don't know that the north side is opening in 30 days M no no no I said within 30 days of the north side being open that they need to open when is the North Side supposed to open they should be complete with construction by the end of the year yeah so we're talking a few I think that that's when i' start pushing is saying if somebody else is opening they can't just keep it gated up at this point I would oh no I was just going to say I would agree with that um speaking on as a resident of somebody that lives in a building that's only got two segments of the Baywalk connected it's it's it's used um we use it a lot and it's a smaller footprint than even what I think Southgate is currently so that plus the north plus the that road would give I think a a great public benefit fora is that something that we can do here today yeah that I was going to ask yeah I'm sorry so what what's the question you're you're asking ex my my question was it seemed like the prior order maybe was they're not obligated to open it wasn't a they can't open it is that I think there's like a distinguishing uh no well uh no the city um well the drb like you cannot you cannot force them to open the Baywalk okay we cannot we can deny a variance right so that's it's a quid pro it's a it's a car I personally I I don't think that that is proper to do either no it's not proper you know I don't think you can hold someone hostage because you know by not approving their variants because you want the Baywalk opened I I guess what we're asking is would you be willing to open the Baywalk once the north property is completed in a couple of months um with access for anybody that is not a resident from that street end um I I would have to take that back to our leadership I do think that we would be willing I just want to mention a couple of things there was another provision in the drb order regarding a cost share um that the city would um share in the cost of the construction um and it it was something in the range of $200,000 um so that's one of the conditions that has not been met and then additionally we I'm sorry was that construction of the Baywalk behind Southgate yes and the city has not paid up their portion of the 200,000 correct um and the other piece is um we've not negotiated an easement yet with the city and um I did request an easement I have not received one but so I I would say you know subject to the those other conditions being met and negotiation of easement um I I think that we would be willing to to consider that I I have another question too because I'm not familiar with bok so the building to the North and then north of the building to the north does the Baywalk still continue or no it's still ter north north of the building to the north is Bay View Terrace and the city's negotiating with them now we're working with them now to iron out the agreement there there's two properties North that are there's nothing I see so this is why it's taking so long CU everybody right as opposed to the beach walk which was there and it was city property okay but if we can open up behind Southgate and in a couple of months to the property of the nor to the north it does provide somewhat of a of a beachwalk which is even bigger than the one behind your property that is right VI useful and used it just yeah it just seems like if the construction's done and we can and we can get there on the the easements like you said that it would be a shame to not to not have that benefit the public but D so you're not involved with the easement approval who what department is has the easement uh approval that you've applied for do you know I think we would just need uh we just need to see the template of the easement that the city is using for the Baywalk okay and then just to begin that conversation um I imagine it's probably pretty standard across all these these segments fora is that legal that has that easement Capital Improvements can get a copy of the easement yes we yeah it is yes and and I think the city can come forward with their requirement of the contribution towards the Baywalk of the 200,000 and possibly all of that can be done within the two months or end of the year when the property to the north will open so can we approve this project um Ro Helio I this is a question for both Ro Helio and and legal um if can we approve this waiver um with the request that this bayw walk be opened um when the property to the north is opened um with it and with their consent and review of the easement from the city and the city making the 200,000 contribution um as long as it is conditioned on a voluntary consent of the applicant I believe it it would be it would be permissible okay so how do I word this if I the rest of the board before you make a motion though we didn't speak about some other things that I want to ask questions um so who was opposed to the neon was it we heard comments from both the wava board members and um and one resident in particular it it wasn't a very strong opposition yeah because that's a shame the sign I was in the sign business a hundred years ago and um that's not near that's not facing anything residential it's right across from the shops at West Avenue the sign's Beautiful by the way I think I love the I love the uh the nod to the mid-century and the sign's Beautiful and neon would be amazing but that's my one qu my other question was the the wall in the back I love doors like that they won't let us do it in condos um are you gu do you know that code will allow that with hurricane stuff to allow a wall to do that yes obviously there's the structural component that we have to meet um as well as the egress which we are complying with and again it's it's a it's not a a very long but they will allow it because we can't do it in a residential yeah as long as we meet the um the wind and if they say that it doesn't because they sometimes change their minds when you're far into it what would you do instead I'm just curious um we would probably uh we still want to have that transparency and you know the connection to the pool we probably would look at a number of pair of doors then okay okay that was my two things I I wish the neon thing I don't know who's opposed to it but the neon thing would be beautiful in that sign um and it's kind of a shame to not have it but the sign the design of the sign's really nice thank you one other question on the sign I agree I like the the neana as well but um just to be clear you're still going with the blue light okay I just wanted to make sure with the example with the backlit yeah that's a beautiful color that's correct yes okay yeah I mean I I don't I didn't understand that argument about the light pollution considering it's facing forward and there's nobody there so I too would prefer it to be neon and and I'm happy for us bad guy there's no there's no turtles there I don't you know you're not the turtle population what we submitted in your package is the neon okay today it's not in your package because of the community input we were proposing to maintain the signage we agree we need the sign out front and uh but how to accommodate that with some of the community feedback was this individual Channel lit LED system we're here today asking for the neon so that would be the initial request I also think too that the neon is more period appropriate to what you're going for and and it's definitely a better architectural gesture for sure um and I I like I like the renovations you didn't really mention it too much but I do really like the colorful sort of mural or backdrop or something that you're showing um right at the drop off um yeah no I'm and that that'll be on the interior it's why we didn't mention it today yeah no I I mean but it's it's but it's definitely going to happen and then I see that you line the underside of the pork koser is that with a wood or it's it's not wood it's an appropriate material that will you know salt weather climate and everything but the idea there is it's much more warm and and welcoming so correct yeah no I think it's I also want to say too that I appreciate that you've maintain the historic character I love seeing buildings and gestures like this and and it's so it's so much more common for us to see things ripped down and redone so thank you very much and I know that that residents appreciate that too and not just your residents but you know the whole community and the neighborhood so thank you very much for renovating and updating rather than ripping out yeah maybe thank you yeah I walk by this building every day and I'm I mean just the little touches you guys have done since you purchased it with the Landscaping so far have been really nice and I I that it's I wanted to ask about the Landscaping as well I'm sorry um the I know the shrubs are overgrown and it's tired and stuff but I think that the border between the sidewalk and the park because it's basically just a parking lot out there so is it going to be how high are the proposed shrubs going to be are they going to block the cars at least at least I mean there there's existing shrubs in that area today what are they that what are they going to put there well we'll maintain the bulk of what's there there's um you know a couple of areas especially around kind of the main entry Drive areas we just want to add more Spruce it up a little bit but we're not going to rip out all that okay I just that was my biggest point that the intent is just to not have you know the parking lot fully visible from the sidewalk yeah we we like the the the green screen if you will from the street we want to maintain that yes yeah the Landscaping changes are all happening in the area of the fountain so it's back back from the road in that in that small little entry sign area that's just got a bunch of rocks getting rid of that wall that half the fountain yeah I think that's nice um I think also too maybe this was what the criticism from the neon was in the very first page of your presentation there's a glow and I think that was more for our purposes to see what we were getting as opposed to the reality I know that neon doesn't really spread like that so maybe that was the generation of the concern I think you might be right yeah and and we notice with that rendering you're not seeing the other light that's in the yeah in the area like the uplights on the Landscaping so it's it probably won't be as glowy as it looks to be in that rendering for sure there's lights in the parking lot so yeah that's a lot of glow so um there so I also think to you know back to the um did we figure out wording for the the Baywalk I also think too that even a little bit of Baywalk accessibility is better than none I can try think okay okay I don't know if anybody else wants to contribute or we should start with that start with um are you asking me about the order yeah how what yeah well um so so if the applicant acases uh to this um you may make a motion that um that the applicant has voluntarily proferred to negotiate the terms of the Baywalk agreement with the city to attempt to sec Ure an earlier opening date for the south portion of the Baywalk that's what an order could say Okay can it be connected to well I mean because we talked about the opening of the building to the north I mean I want to get a date certain or or some sort of I would I have a good listen I have an option if you'll that I was going to say if they voluntarily agree in an open Forum that they would open the Baywalk when the property the north opens their Baywalk and the city comes up with a $200,000 and they're comfortable with the uh ement agreement um that's that I would I would approve the variances based on your voluntary agreement to do that with those conditions being met on our end on the other side and and I'm I'm not sure if there are I don't think there are other terms in the former drb order but it may make sense to reference that and and just switch the property to this from the South to the property to the north because I think that's the big change here is that the original agreement is we would open it when the property the Baywalk on the property to South open and now we're saying it would be because the north segment is happening faster we would open it then well and it seems like a lot has changed in 12 years and yes yeah listen there's a frustration clearly the previous owner there was frustration with the city not opening it and there's frustration now and and but I hear your side too but I the people that called in you know brought this up again so I think we just want the bayw walks open and you know I think if there's a one next to you open that that's the impetus to do it David how how realistic is the opening of the north property by the end of the year they are on schedule to be done by the end of the year so it's underway now they're they're working on it as we speak and they are they are on schedule to be done and they also have to get the easement agreement I believe all of our Agreements are in place with that property already done okay so there is no hiccup once they finish construction end of the year for them to not open their Baywalk by the end of the year or come January let's say correct okay okay so that and then I should say too does there need to be member somebody from the community who would move this along or is that something that your department would handle to ensure that that things are open and and they we are managing the development agreement for that segment it's from 10 12 10th Street to 12th Street um so we're kind of overseeing that as part of the development agreement okay U we're also managing the development of the of the property to the South with the design and permitting okay so if the residents that were concerned needed an update it would be your department they can reach out to my department and what was that department again Capital improv Capital Improvements okay okay or to me directly that's fine okay so um I would like to make um a motion if I I don't know if he's okay I'd like to make a motion that we approve the um variance for the um not the LED but the um neon neon sign cursive was the thing you know nobody reads you know the kids don't read write cursive anymore so you might have a problem with your tenant I write cursive and I agree with cursive so uh approve the the variance for the neon sign um and to uh include with the consent of the property owner the approval to open the Baywalk when the property to the north opens which is estimated to open end of the year and when they have an opportunity to receive the uh approve the easement agreement from the city and receive from the city the contribution towards the Baywalk construction of 200,000 and any other just in case any other requirements that were in that drb order from 2012 concerning the Baywalk opening I'll second that is that okay FIA uh yes I mean I would I would I would advise against um incorporating a specific monetary amount because at the end of the day it is up to the city commission to appropriate the funding um and it may wasn't 200,000 part of it it also may change um depending on I thought the 200,000 was part of the 2012 drb order uh yes but that was in 2012 um the the costs may change but it's it's more it's more like a precaution I think it just have the general reimburse the cost or whatever whatever that was you know okay yeah what what are the cost sharing that will end up on the series yeah okay so we have a second I'll second that you don't mind if you would allow me to read this real quick just to make sure um at a condition um with the consent of the property owner to open the Baywalk when the property to the north opens and when the cost sharing agreement is made and when easements are issued as well as any other requirements in Prior orders are are complied with correct okay so we have a motion by Miss Baki do we have a second yes I'll second second by Miss Leen uh all those in favor I any opposed motion passes thank you thank you very much and we need a separate motion for the design I don't think that was part of this motion oh okay uh I'll make a motion to approve the design um with the neon if you as a resident as well second did you did you want to include a condition specific to the neon um that was being described I think we're all fine as a board with the neon um so if that's if you take the neon away it's very it has a very very different character so maybe it should be especially if that's the applicant's preference I think we're all comfortable with the neon yes okay uh motion by Miss L we have a second I'll second second by Mr defer all those in favor I I motion passes thank you thank you all very much all right so should we go back now that we've done all the variances to I guess did we need to go through the request for continuance yes we we did not uh vote on that earlier okay um so this is for drb4 1040 15500 Bay Road actually it's the same the same applicant um they're just requesting a continuance the November 5th 2024 meeting um this is regarding the flamingo oh okay I'd like to make a motion to approve um I don't think you can make a motion make a motion uh make a motion to approve continuance okay motion to approve the the continuance okay all those in favor I I all right motion passes so that item will be heard on November 5th okay bless you thank you so then we move on to uh drb 23978 630 Alton Road yes okay so this is an application has been filed requesting modifications to a previously approved design review approval for the construction of a of two one-story commercial buildings including one or more waivers to to replace the existing sales Center on the site um this um 630 Alton Road also known as 600 Alton Road uh for background back in uh 2018 the city commission approved some amendments to the Land Development regulations creating the Alton Road Gateway Area Redevelopment regulations for the cd2 district um that authorized the construction of the of the tower uh on the adjacent uh it's technically part of the same lot but south of 6th Street um authorize the construction of the of the park um of the 3 Acre Park and the construction of the commercial parcel that that's before us today um on May 2019 uh and subsequently on June 2019 the drb reviewed and approved uh the plan for the proposed retail structure um at the corner of Sixth Street at former Sixth Street rideway in Alton Road um and so at that time uh the drb approved a two story commercial structure so now they're proposing to modify that uh to a one-story commercial structure um it'll be approximately 11,600 Square ft um they are required to have uh parking spaces um that most of the parking will be located in the adjacent building at uh at 500 Alton Road um they are proposing a parking lot that we do have some concerns with that I'll describe in a moment um the uh the so the the structure features a uh it's in contemporary style uh the site features a PL Plaza along Alton Road with Pathways that Meander through Landscaping to a central Breezeway that separates two Pavilions allowing visitors to access the plaza uh which overlooks canopy Park um there are several curval linear eaves that uh encircle both of the buildings um accenting the breezeways it's it's a very very nice structure and staff is highly supportive of of the proposed modifications of the design um as it it does have the potential to improve the integration to the adjacent canopy Park um staff does have concerns with the proposal from the applicant to build a uh a Suburban style parking lot adjacent to the structure um with 90 degree parking spaces um staff believes that there is ample parking in the adjacent structure on uh on 500 Alton Road and as well as there's public parking in the in the vicinity um that can more than uh um address the needs for this site additionally staff is encouraging alternative modes of transportation this is small scale retail that should be serving the community um members of the community likely will be walking and bicycling to this community so the inclusion of a of a parking lot limits the integration of the commercial structure to the adjacent Park which is which is uh very important that that that integration take place um so with that staff does recommend that the that the application be approved without that parking lot in the event that the drb would like to have the surface parking lot with 90° spasis staff does recommend that some details of that parking be refined uh including uh the replacement of the proposed standard wheel stops with ballards or continuous curbs with Landscaping uh for the twoot vehicle overhang also the demarcation of parking spaces should consist of of changes in the color of pavers and not surface paint um and so while these changes are not ideal they would improve the the the look of the parking area it would appear more like a plaza as opposed to a surface parking lot um um and and and the the space it could potentially be closed off in the future and used as a as a plaza for some other uses in in the event that the parking is not needed um so with that staff recommends that the uh that the plans be approved subject to the conditions in the attached draft order um which address the design review criteria morning everyone bit of housekeeping first gr oh for for the record gram penber Howard El Fernandez L and tapis South pis Boulevard is there a Philip Jeff in the room we found Mr Jeff uh notebook no sorry some important it looks like an architect's handwriting that's why I thought it was joined to my left is Mr Ray Fort um as reelio noted the only point of difference we have with staff is the parking lot so what we've handed out to you what Miss Balter handed out to you was a a draft implementation of the alternative parking scenario that that reelio laid out the alternative to deleting it we think think it's incredibly important to retain some parking here where we're retaining 11 spaces including two accessible spaces so as opposed to 39 that are required by the development program so it's a very minor use of the parking excuse me and we think overall when you when you look at the plans in comparison to the 2019 plan this is a massive Improvement in their interaction with this design with the park it reduces the amount of vehicular use area significantly the overall buildings integrate and and flow into the park in a significant way we've and and Ray will show you we protected uh a lot of the seating internalized now to the project which is a great Improvement so let me take you through my little intro and we'll we'll get R to take you through the details so as reelio noted this is this piece this parcel is a piece of the overall 500 Alton project right the 500 Alton projects includes the five park building on the south it includes the three acres of can park that was dedicated to the city uh the FL the new Floridian parking lot to the north part of that development agreement when when David was talking about the the uh the walks and the bridge that that development agreement was this development agreement so we are in the middle of implementing the final elements of that development agreement which of course included the dedication the Improvement of the park as well so this again is always this commercial component has always been part of the plan so this is the 2019 approv approval uh as reelio noted it's two stories tall uh what I wanted to note and Ray will you talk about more the details there's two important elements that I want to talk about you'll see that there was a this Incorporated a driveway that went from six all the way to Alton so there was always going to be traffic going through the entire property and and ending on Alton you'll note from you'll see the new plan that's gone the other element I want to talk about is on the North End of the project you can see that kind of little small egg shaped building that was bicycle parking and also the trash room so the trash room was basically located against the part so again when you see the new plan it's a massive Improvement so you've lost in the new design you've lose all of that vehicular activity so we think that ultimately the the new parking lot is a significant Improvement of the old one I'll here's a little bit more detail you can see the the way the drive works so removing that that especially the Alon driveway you've got all that pedestrianization that's improved along there and you have none of that traffic going through the property so the proposed development reduces the overall height we're basically taking that floor area and that was in two stories and we're separating into two buildings it removes that Alton Road driveway which is incredibly important we believe it again significantly improves the relationship of this property with the park and uh as reelio noted uh really retains the first class design that architectonic that came up for this uh from the beginning we think it's actually uh Improvement in the architecture as well well that's not great hold on guys can we unzoom this somehow are you guys controlling this or am I controlling I think you're controlling I know I can't see any oh there it is okay hold on it still does it super bizar that must be how the slide is set up well no it was it looked fine this morning and if this is all of them we're in deep trouble uh can you guys just reduce it manually it's odd because the other pictures are okay we're just going to not we won't do it P in yeah it's just going to be pained to to move them we're going to have to do it I apologize we're going to have to all right you're going to have to be a a Zoomer all right just take them up you know I'm looking at another the architectural plans that you submitted and there is a picture a drawing of what you're what you're proposing the plans are on the back of this too but I think it's fine I think we can just we'll navigate like this it's fine you guys can see okay so right I'll let I one here I'll sit here and I'll just move it for you so you don't have to deal with it okay so um this is the previously approved site plan and what you see with the green roof and that oval shape is on the on the north side of Sixth Street which in this particular orientation East is up on the page North is to the right um the reason the building was shaped that way was because we had that driveway coming from 6 Street out to Alton Road with parallel parking and it actually separated the retail building from the parks significantly creating that traffic and flow through and potentially even a valet drop off that may have even occurred in there so the new plans we um yeah you can go ahead and go to the next page this is the something else to note is that the square footage allocated in the in the in the new proposed project is the same as pre as the previously approved except that the previously approved was was a twostory building so stacked on top of one another and the expectation was we wanted to get people up to that second floor which obviously creates a lot of complication for retail we know that retail on second floor always has had some difficulty uh functioning in in Miami in general so uh and this was about a 40 foot tall structure 45 if you include the BF but it was relatively tall because we had about 20 foot floor to floor for each retail level so on top of the idea that we had this driveway happening there we had a very large staircase which you can call a feature staircase very high floor to floor Heights and um we had to get people up to that second floor so uh these are the old views from 2019 so now look now this one's small that's super bizarre it's really it's really deciding to mess with my brain uh here do uh do one of these we'll go that we'll do want go scroll over a bit maybe that'll all right there we go okay I'll keep going the new uh this is an updated colored s plan and we're now decoupling the Stacked floor plates and putting the building side by side with the intention of creating a courtyard space in between the two we're also letting the shapes of these buildings be quite organic much like the green spaces that you see in canopy Park they're almost reacting to those shapes that are occurring around it let's go to the next page and we can actually go to the next one it might be clearer so the the shapes of the building are very Amic like very organic reacting to the shapes within the park we do have those 11 parking spaces which are off St Street which are off of that roundabout and perpendicular and they take up much less space than had it been parallel parallel spaces still need the two still need a wide Drive aisle they you only get one space for every two parking spaces had it been perpendicular and we had the drive a that had that that exited onto Alton Road by removing that drive a Al together and having a building at its place were able to actually let the retail buildings connect to canopy Park and have entrances off of the north um East Northwest corner and create uh what we think is a very nice dining and outdoor seating area in between the two Pavilions um you'll also notice that our loading area the designated loading area which was previously approved I'm going to try to move this a bit which was previously approved um are the two spaces off of sixth so the buildings are oriented especially the one on the south uh with the backup house and trash rooms towards that side and that's the main trash room so anything that that occurs from the trash in the other building gets hauled out and brought to that trash room as the holding area um we've also implemented uh an updated buffer along Alton Road with this Plaza like condition with pathways through landscape that then bring you up to the BF and I can show you that in section um okay I'm out of time aren't I okay how much more time do you love be a two two to five minutes that's okay I can get I can get through thisly um do you want me to so just a section uh the building is now significantly been reduced uh the two buildings are not the same height but they do share a roof line one building is 16 feet and the other is 19 feet there's a canopy that actually changes in height it's almost Amic in in section as well where um we'll get to those views but you'll see you'll see what I mean let's keep going um materiality we wanted to keep this quite simple in terms of of its materials clear glass you know that clear glass is essential to having uh good retail and good functioning FMB you want to see into these spaces we're choosing a neutral uh molon color that's a light gray moleon color and we're also proposing for the pedestals to mitigate the height of the base flood elevation to use an tic Stone and then uh a wood cladding in areas that we want to conceal like the back of house areas which also provides a backdrop for signage to be placed on the building let's go to the next page keep going keep going okay these are just the elevations something you'll see you'll notice here is the curvature of the eyebrow that occurs around the retail this is uh this is Al this is in combination creating protection uh for outdoor seating but also uh almost a covered Courtyard in between the two buildings themselves let's keep going so This Is A View From The Parks side uh look essentially uh towards the Northeast we're basically standing close to 6th Street from this vantage point the building on the left is slightly taller and the the canopy the eyebrow is is curving upwards towards that that that that the upper left hand side of the page and follows it down towards the 16t side on the right side of the page but what we've created in between the two buildings is a courtyard space the par parking is intended to feel very Plaza likee we don't want this to feel like a parking lot that's set within the park um we put so much effort into removing the drive aisle to begin with so we want to continue the idea of removing the parking from this space uh although we do know that for convenience parking that could be a very good thing for the activation of these of these buildings uh This Is A View From the park side as well very glassy very open very inviting next page we are proposing uh the a wood uh cladding to the building where we have back of house spaces but here in this view you can see the three materials that we're proposing the TIC Stone uh that creates that datm of the base flood elevation the wood cladding for the back of house spaces which we would like to use as a backdrop for potential signage clear glass into the space wow okay um all right guys I'm going to click this and then uh we are also proposing a bull no uh eyebrow which speaks to the radiuses that we're using in five Park as well so with that um I can yeah I mean we conclude the presentation yeah okay all right that I apologize we had a lot of fun technical stn is the uh we just close with the following right the there two there's a uh We've request we will request that you modify condition 2 d2a which is the aforementioned parking lot condition to reflect the alternative that's laid out by staff in the narrative which is reflected in the in what we've handed out which is basically ex removing any uh wheel stops extending the landscaping and with curbing to basically allow cars to uh rest against the curb and extend that uh extend that landscaped area remove the paint and repl uh for the the spacing delineation and and have it uh have pavers do it instead so um with we think that that's a fair compromise um we this building really needs to have some some level of parking uh adjacent to it to function properly and as I've noted to staff the other technical change that we need to make which is uh is to the overall dra I mean the overall standard requirement for 18 months for building permit this project is subject to a development agreement so the deadlines for building permit issuance are governed by the development agreement uh not really this board's concern but I want to make sure that that's on the record so the final order can reflect that change so with that we're here for any questions you may have and I'd like to reserve time for a bual thank you thank you very much um are there any other members of the public wishing to speak no anybody online we have uh Tim Carr good afternoon everyone this is Tim Carr West neighborhood association hi good afternoon Tim um I'm I'm I'm sorry for the interruption I just need to S you in really quickly before you continue please uh do you sp or affirm that the that the testimony that you will be giving in this proceeding is a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do all right thank you Tim you may continue all right thank you again Tim Car West hav neighborhood association president of the Bentley Bay um we did have a chance uh to review the plans both the board and of the Bentley Bay and also West AB neighborhood association we support the plans that proposed today uh we do uh again it's a great design I think it really integrates well with the park uh we do ask though that you accommodate a public restroom for people using the park right now that's one of the challenges that we do have with families and kids on the playground but other than that I think we're good to go thank you thank you very much Tim are there any others we have R giftopoulos yes hi good morning hi AR can you hear us yes I can can you hear me uh yes I just need to S really quickly before you continue please sure yeah uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right thank you you may continue I just have a question I'm a little unclear of Sixth Street is that no longer going to be a public street is that now private to this project the the ride of way for Sixth Street has been vacated it is no longer a public street but there is an easement that provides Public Access okay so it's essentially functions as a public street but it is technically not a public Street pedestrian access mostly pedest pedestrian and vular access there are 10 foot sidewalks on either side but could somebody drive from whatever Bay Road Alton to W to West yes cutting through there yes so they can drive so then it is kind of still public yes oh okay thank you very much um and that's it great I'd like to close the public portion and open it up to the board for comments Scott do you want to start yeah um first of all I'm such a fan of this project ultimate the way the building and the park have turned out it's one of the few things that is actually better than I think we all anticipated I walk through there a lot and it's a beautiful project um and I agree with you with parking I was on the parking committee for eight years and this town just keeps cutting parking out and there's nowhere to stop and there's nowhere to buy anything there's nowhere to park your car when you're trying to buy something so I totally I appreciate staff's uh comments about the park but I think ultimately changing it to the this to this configuration is better for the park and for the retail I would ask that the white lines not be put that you do that with stone with papers and things that staff recommended if we keep the parking so thank you for that because I think that's a good compromise um what else was I going to say I think that was it I really yeah I I'm really I'm a big fan of putting parking I remember this debate when this came up and when you do have retail with zero parking it's just not feasible but I I think the other changes are really beautiful and I think they're really going to enhance the park and I have to say that highrise that everybody was freaking out about the way it is been situated the angle and everything else you can be in that Park and it it really it's amazing how a 50-story building does not ruin the impact of that Park so I'm supportive of this um I have a I have a question and relating to the parking if the parking lot wasn't there there was something in the the material that we got that the the building itself accommodates for the parking was that what you were proposing the parking requirement can be met by the parking that is that exists in the in the new building that's being built and then does the park itself have parking on the other side is that what I saw or that was a different property there was there is parallel parking on West Avenue adjacent to the park um but there's no parking specifically for this park M that's okay there's a parking lot to the north of the park that is the South Bay uh Towers parking it's the Floridian sorry I apologize The Floridian Towers par but it's private now it's not a public lot how are you going to prevent people that are just running into the building as opposed to going to the retail from using this parking lot because it seems like they're right there like don't you think that that would be I don't want to deal with you know how are you going to ensure that it meets the right the serves the right purpose well Ray can explain I I think a little bit about the the POR coare area of 500 Alton but that is a significant area I think that most if if you're going in there for convenience purposes of typical people we you know the Amazon guy the the food delivery guy there's there's more room on the south side of that street than on the North side really for you so I think that most most of them are just going to take again they always as we always know they take the path of least resistance and if they can get to the front of the residential building and there's a large area to pull in there they'll use it I mean other than that obviously once we have tenants there the actual kind of operation of that uh will depend on what the tenants are right whether or not there's going to be a restaurant there what that wants valet and then maybe a lot of the part the lot will be valet you know during the evenings for that you know to to allow that staging to occur so it it really will depend on what the tenant mix is but we think that 500 alen by itself or five Park I apologize has has more than enough space to to to allow for that kind of In-N-Out delivery St and to expand upon that five park has two separate drop offs two lobbies and a lot of internal queuing so there's I don't I don't and and not only that it has two res two entrances into the garage so I don't see uh I wouldn't foresee rather uh a resident or somebody going to that building saying hey I'm just going to park in this lot and then go to that building there's so much access that it was a it was a huge part actually of the initial design and discussions um originally with staff and with the drb um as part of that uh as part of that building there's no commercial in the residential Tower right okay I was just wondering if there's interplay with the space there's not no okay I was kind of similarly similarly worried if people were going to just park in that parking lot for the park itself um I don't so I guess that will be up to your tenant operators to decide like to for signage and enforcement I mean if somebody that doesn't live anywhere near the park but would like to go that's where I would park exactly right exactly so I for MTI hours and then it's you know I'm thinking too if there is going to be a these are Big Buildings if there's going to be a restaurant here you're going to need more than 11 spots well yeah I mean as reelio noted right the the the remainder of the parking for for the retail is served by the 500 Alton building right that garage will include spaces that are dedicated to the retail use so it's always been planned that way the re we're just we're never this lot was never going to hold all the parking that's necessary right it's only less than a third of what the demand would be so yeah so from a from an operational point of view if we have a restaurant that's popular there'll be a valet they'll Park them in the in the garage right so this is designed for I mean handicap spaces obviously and to have people getting in and out quickly yeah maybe it'll be a 15minute only kind of parking thing which is really valuable yeah yeah like for Uber Heats what was the Ria what was your idea for the space or what was the alternative if we didn't have the parking lot was it just Green Space or theoretically it could be green space that would integrate into the park provide Pathways into the park um improve those linkages um you we we don't have a specific plan in mind we would want to work with the applicant but but ideally it would be improve somehow improving the connectivity into the park something to note that the parking lot is not asphalt we're proposing it as pavers so let's just say there is some type of event that requires more outdoor seating or some some event that's in the park that needs some expansion or some setup like that parking lot could be taken over and still feel like it's in a plaza setting to interact with both the commercial and the Green Space Farmers Market type use that's that's what it's always been designed for yeah yeah you know ril I was really struck um that staff felt very strongly against this parking lot what can you elaborate on that I mean a little bit more it just that you want to take you think that it should just be expanding of the park and then what's the counterargument to serving the convenience for the stores and making sure that the stores are successful so for most of the parking for the retail is is located in in the in the adjacent Tower um additionally there is parallel parking on Alton Road there's parallel parking on West Avenue um there's sufficient parallel parking for those convenient In-N-Out uses um we believe and additionally because this is a very dense area this is probably the densest area of the city we do expect a lot a lot of people will be walking um to this retail location you have across the street you have uh you know 500 you have the the five park building you have the Floridian you have uh icon you have Morano Morano Grande you have all these really tall buildings within a block that we do expect that a large proportion of the people that will be coming to this building building will be walking um so ideally that's that's the method we'd like for people to get there and is is to walk and to minimize traffic impacts um so that's that's really our our our thoughts in this is that uh alternative modes of Transit will be the predominant form of people getting to this location um for those quick In-N-Out vehicle trips there would be um um some they would be able to use the on street parking um and also there's an another other alternative where there is a more limited amount of parking in a parallel parking area perhaps rather than 90° parking that's a more limited footprint um to service for for example the handicap parking and and any other um really basic uh needs for parking as well the the um parallel parking on West Avenue and Alton Road is typically taken and while the majority of the people visiting this part most likely will come from neighboring buildings maybe there's some of us that don't live in the in the neighboring buildings that would like to visit it and you know for a period of time um so and it sort of replaces all not sort of it does replace the angle parking um that was in the previous plan that had been approved so why did it get approved then with the angle parking was it because you know it it it was approved there was nothing more to to discuss at that point I know it was uh contentious and and a lot of discussion on it but um all they're doing is really replacing some of that angle parking with this little parking lot you know that I think St maintain the same position back back then they did yeah yeah but it's up to it's up to the drb no hard feelings yeah you know they don't have to drive and bu something here I mean it's a it's a public park meaning open to everybody on Miami Beach most likely used by those living in the area but having some limited parking and I know it's not going to it's always probably going to be full all the time um it just creates a little bit of convenience and I think it helps whatever retail goes in that area how does the size of this lot relate to what's there now for the sales Center is this pretty much the same footprint or dimensionally the the sales Center is uh about the size of the building on the North side the sales Center itself I guess I don't mean the actual sales Center but the the lot that's serving the sales center right now is that about the same size this is the same lot the same L okay as you might have heard I live across the straight from this park so I walk by this too and yeah I I don't know I don't see I mean I don't see that big of a an issue with the size of the the lot that's there now um and I think it's paved concrete right now so it would be replaced with the papers yeah it's I think it's currently asphalt for the surface lot that's there and um yeah this will be replaced with papers okay yeah I'd like to also talk to maybe table this um about the design which I think is a really lovely Improvement so thank you very much for that um yeah it's it's really nice the material the exterior wood cladding I know just because it's come up before is that going to be real wood engineered wood we're proposing at the moment to use a realwood because it's Under the Canopy but we're looking at engineered products because it's getting much better every single day we use it a lot on ceilings the ceiling will for sure be engineered wood because we have great products for that but uh for the siding portion we're considering a real wood okay I would just request or I would have us request that it be a sort of environmentally friendly one I know in the past we've looked out upon the epay wood um so regenerative something along those lines um the other I'd also like to bring up the point that one of the people who called in brought up about the restrooms which is was something that I was thinking about as well um the reason that I bring it up I happen to live very close to Polo Park and we had this issue where the Polo Park also doesn't have any restrooms and it became now there's it was a huge demand from the residents of the area and now there's a little trailer restroom situation um but I do know I do know that there's a like a a playground like I I know that this area is used by a lot of kids and bathrooms and I was hoping that that could be that there that and and because the park doesn't have restrooms that this could be incorporated into this design so I don't know when anybody else incorporated into the retail is that possible the well the re the retail will have the required restrooms for the size of those of of those spaces um is the request to put public restrooms separate and aart in the building to serve to serve the people I would also say too that it's very rare to go into a retail store at Mii Beach and be able to use their Resturant yes and I can guarantee you that the people who are in the park because these build buildings are so integrated into the park are going to think that they're part of the park and not the condo next door and they're going to go in and they're going to ask to use the restroom and so so maybe that becomes part of the compromise of okay this land can be the parking lot but it also has to be you know as integrated into the park as possible um I'd also like to make that a note for the city people that are here in general how really useful it is especially in parks with playgrounds to have public restrooms um I I will tell you that I don't disagree with you but the majority of the 22 parks on Miami Beach do not have a restroom uh the beach has it and the parks that do have it Flamingo Park Normandy Northshore um the maintenance of those restrooms the security in those restrooms and the activity that occurs in those restrooms becomes a serious problem and very difficult and expensive to maintain and a lot of times not maintained um so I um and I agree with you if you go anywhere on Lincoln Road and try to use a restroom in any of the stores they tell you they don't have any well of course they do but they don't let you use them um but it you know I'm concerned I agree it would be nice to have restrooms um maybe all of us here would use them properly but unfortunately that's not what happens especially with the population in this area um there could be a lot of abuse in those restrooms I understand that but what ends up happening when we swing that far that way I look at the stretch of the beachwalk up in the sort of 50s and 60s where everybody was concerned about all the public using and there's no water fountain you know you could go for a mile in the Heat and there's no water fountain because they didn't want people sitting there um again this was a really deep need that was felt with this one park and I'm just trying to avoid I know there's been complaints that along lumus Park some of the showers have been taken away and so now there's really long lines for the people who do want to use the beach and want to shower off and it's like we've gotten so defensive and yet these are you know if there's a few people that are ruining it for everyone and it's affecting the quality of life for the overwhelming majority of people that do need these facilities that are responsibly using them you know you can say any of the public lands could become places where people hang out when we don't want them to but then are we going to stop building playgrounds are we going to stop creating public spaces I think that the reality is these spaces are created for the public to enjoy and we have to help them enjoy it in the best way possible I mean I my children aren't little anymore but it really is an inconvenience especially if you're going to this park you're enjoying this facility to to to not have a restroom and you know the maintenance I hear you I understand but it's like you're cutting off your nose despite your face I being involved in this situation and not a situation a problem for so many years uh when I was here at the city I will tell you that I agree totally with everything you're saying however realistically it's not just a few people that abuse of the situation and now as a result the majority it can't have it it's a lot of people abuse of this situation it isn't the minority from what we were experiencing so until something is fixed you know it just creates a problem that cannot and has not been um controlled or properly addressed so that you and I can actually use a restroom whether we go as adults or with children I know that at um Fisher park for example um the parents go with a little portal toilet you know for the kids because they don't want them using not that there are any but even when they go to a park like Flamingo they don't want them using the public restrooms um so that has been my experience I don't disagree with what you're saying it'd be great but even Parks up north in the north end of this country um you have to pay pay to get into the park in the Jersey Shore to get into the restroom you don't pay you don't go in and that's something that I don't think Miami Beach has gone into yet but uh and it happened because they need to be able to maintain the park the the restrooms properly so I agree with you 100% it'd be great but it just doesn't work I think there's a bit of a question too of who would be maintaining it here right because this is private property serving a public park that was actually going to be part of my question too of why there wasn't a restroom put in the park to begin with you know and and and that's it is this is this a public what is the ownership what is the status of who maintains this park the city the park is part of is is owned by the city now yeah they gave the park to the city so on the same same thing Bel same situation but there's condos with bathrooms there's a public with bathroom across the street it would be nice if they had like a mall type bathroom but this is such a little retail space that they're not going to do that and I don't think at this point to hold a parking lot that was already approved hostage over a bathroom that is just let's face it it it draws it will draw people it'll draw homeless people if they know there's a bathroom there and they'll use the park and it'll just I it's a sad situation but we have not addressed it in other parks and I that's why that is why and most of the people using these parks are coming from their condos and surrounding areas so there are public places to go to the bathroom around there it's just it's I wouldn't hold it hostage I think we're going in circles on this one there is a there is a Publix across the street I mean you have to cross Alton so it's not the most ideal but that you could use in terms of local but yeah um other comments yes I just R the um design I forgot to comment on it but it's a beautiful design and I think a wonderful improvement from the two-story CU it's more in in in scale with the rest of the park thank you thank you and I I can honestly say I'm really torn with the parking lot because on the one hand I hear what everybody is saying and I agree as somebody who doesn't live in the area but might depending on what restaurant is there come to the restaurant there I could use it but I also want to respect you know I think the staff makes a really good point I also don't want to take it lightly normally there's not as much um I guess don't feel as strong like it was a very strong rebuff of their plan so I'm not quite sure but there was a lot of of whispering going on when we were having the discussion about the bathroom did you was it something you needed to share with us just briefly there was because again this is six years of process now there was a lot of discussion about the bathroom when this was worked out and ultimately it didn't end up being in the park right that there was a there was at one point the plan for the park included bathrooms but then they were twoo Central and you couldn't see them so that's why they got taken out so this isn't the first time that this has been discussed it was discussed at for months and months and months during the the entire development agreement process um so that's all I wanted to add that that the ultimate conclusion that that the city came to was that there would be no bathroom in the par I was part I was public when this was done I was not on any boards or committees and so I was at a lot of these meetings and I supported the idea of it and I got to I want to make a motion but I want to go back and say we started with what were like six or eight story buildings that were completely covering this area wall to wall sidewalk to sidewalk with no Greenery and very vapid that's what could have been approved and they did this park and this highrise and there were so many things and this retail another thing with the retail the parking was so hardly discussed because you can't retail is failing everywhere and when there's nowhere to stop a car there's never parallel parking and I appreciate staff trying to advocate for green space and stuff I really do but there's just a practicality and reality to this so I would if it's okay with you I would make a motion that we listen to staff's um problems with the recommendations with with getting rid of this parking lot but to keep the parking lot to follow their their recommendations that if we did keep the parking lot that we don't do the white lines that you keep the papers that you don't do the bump the whatever you call them the parking stops and do what they requ what they balled like they uh suggested you know I I again I like that you turned a driveway into a plaza so that's the positive I leave the bathrooms out of it that's another that's another area um so I would motion to approve the the building the design is beautiful think it really enhances it's a nice Improvement and again with retail we have this problem with retail where we we approve all this retail and it fails because it's not practical so anyway that's it I make the motion the parking lot with the changes with staff's recommendations and approve the design the changes the changes that they discussed reflected on page seven yes yeah yes reflected on if I it yep yeah well and I also to that point I wonder if there's a way and I don't know if this is true but to make the pavers seem less I mean it's nice that you put pavers but to go the next step to make it seem a little bit like a more Lush parking lot or you know open I I don't know integrate with they integrate with the prominade though right so that flows so it flows right this is the same material used as a promade correct and it's at the same elevation as the prominade correct yes I guess I think it would be great if the parking lot could be designed to at least have the intent of being parklike but with the Practical use as a parking lot which seems like sort of maybe what what staff was getting at a little bit that that's what you didn't like but if there's a way that through design or Landscaping it could look a little bit more parklike like a flex space something like that and then I would also say just in terms of operation I'd like we're making a case here for why these retail stores need parking if they're could be something whether it's signage or whatever just to ensure that these spots are reserved for the retail and that the retail customers also know that there's parking in the building because I would hate for people not to patronize these stores because they think oh it's pain parking is such a pain in the neck I wouldn't put that criteria because if a resident comes in by car and there's parking available there that Resident um should have the ability to use that Park um so I wouldn't put that restriction I think the operator of the retail is going to to dictate you know what he's going to need and he also has the AA the availability of the parking garage um that's provided so across the street but uh if someone goes with their child to that park by car then they should be able to use that parking space if it's available otherwise then they have to go into the parking garage is is wait to to add to that people that use the park are they allowed to use the is it a public parking in the tower and the residences oh for the park no no it's just for because these buildings are part your yeah I mean and conceivably if you're going and you're paying for parking yeah we don't the details of the operation Operation right conceivably yes but that's not requir it's not the intention and parallel parking on the street is sometimes very limited um so I wouldn't restrict um who owns the parking lot it's the city or no they do they be you part of their development okay do does the development have a problem with allowing people using the park to park there in the in our 11 new spaces I think the answer would be yes my I I think the difficult I mean we've got to deal with tenants right you know we can't have if we're going to try to lease these spaces if they're all Tak have parking so they can use the retail and then go to the park and they would still be in compliance but I assume that operationally you're going to have a time limit on these that will be we'll have to work that yeah you know and not to belabor this but you know as Laura noted before we do have the burkowitz parking garage literally across the street so if someone's coming to and that's available public parking and it's been there for two decades already so if people are going to visit the park that's another alternative that's literally across the street and hopefully they can walk thews it's all it's all beautiful okay so anyways my motion back to you pointing to the paragraph but what I have to say is I have to make clear that the motion is the parking lot as the applicant presents it not as the parallel because the road the plaza does not allow for traffic to go through it so the parking lot with the in paragraph 2 uh with we're staying with 90° spaces we're going to make sure that the the material is integrated with the plaza that you use uh you use ballards or a continuous curb with a landscape for a twft wide vehicle overhang and that the demarcation of the parking spaces should consist of changing the colors of the paper and not surface paint um that's that's my motion and the design of the building as presented any other is that clear I would say to work with staff to create As Much landscaping around the parking as possible you know yeah it the most part which I think is what they're that's what they were trying to do I mean would you say raelia that's what you were trying to do with the yeah I second the motion I apologize can can we make sure that the the final order includes that fixed to the 18-month provision that I discussed is that ringing a bell no one listens to me the uh yeah you stated at the beginning the deadline for obtaining a building permit for this application cannot be 18 months because it's subject to a development agreement which governs the the termination of it so that's if we could just make sure that gets cleaned up in the final version just amend the the motion that we it's just the boiler play all the way amend the motion that we don't hold it contingent to 18 months yes because of the design change of the because of the development it's contingent on the entire development so that's the second to last paragraph on page six of the draft order correct and it would be repl the 18 months would be replaced with uh within the provisions outlined in the development agreement yeah okay okay okay we have a second there was a second my second I thought so I second yeah motion by Mr Defender for a second by miss buoli all those in favor hi any opposed no motion passes thank you so much thank you very much um and now I think we should take a lunch break yep lunch is here okay um so it's 12:15 right now um let's do 12:40 recess thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e please take your seats the meeting is about to begin remember to speak into the microphone as this meeting is being recorded for public record please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 two 1 good afternoon and welcome back to the October 1st meeting of the design review board we are going to continue on our agenda with uh drb 24-10 37 4410 Alton Road so this is an application has been filed requesting a modification to a previously approved design review approval for the construction of a new two-story single family residence with an understory on a vacant lot specifically the applicant is requesting design review approval of the final design details and structural components of the new two-story single family home um this project was approved uh by the design review board on March 5th 2024 um 2024 and then um sorry I apologize on February 6 2024 and they continued the landscape plan to March 5th 2024 on March 5th 2024 the landscape plan was approved with the exception of landscaping AB budding the building and the portion of the projects along with the details of the structural component uh components were required to be reviewed by the board prior to the issuance of the building permit so they're here for that purpose it the the order required that they come back to the board to get the final structural details of the roofing elements um approved um the the roof um is designed using uh pretty uh advanced technology um that the applicant will be will be going through it involves the use of glass fiber reinforced concrete panels a steel structure steel sheets as well as waterproofing layers um it allows for atypical shapes to be built um the applicant has shown other examples of this technology being used um and so staff has no objections to the proposed technology being used um and recommends approval of the application so it on our hi good afternoon I hope everyone enjoyed their lunch um and we're happy to be here today and appreciate you staying for this application uh Emily Balter Brook her adelph in his lar and tapinis office at 200 South biscane Boulevard I'm here today on behalf of maricio Rivera kersner and his single family home at 4410 Alton Road uh as roio mentioned this is a new single family home with an understory that came before this board and was approved in December at that time we agreed uh to bifurcate the design from the land landscape and then we came back before this board um and presented and the landscape was approved in March uh these approvals gave the applicant Assurance to move forward with the design and put together a remarkable team of professionals so as as roio mentioned we're here today because truly because of the uniqueness of this project and it and it required that division of attention um we're we would like today to show the board the progress that we've made uh to make this Vision a reality uh the board asked and we agreed to come back with details of the exterior materials uh the finishes the structural components and really H how are we going to make this roof happen um so I'm excited to present the additional information and introduce you to this extraordinary team um before I do that I just wanted to mention that we're in agreement with staff's review and recommendation um that the condition to come back to this board with this information has been satisfied um so we're respectfully requesting approval consistent with the updated board order in the record uh so with me today in person is fared jaon with nmd nomadas as well as my colleague Michael Larin um on Zoom we have probably 12 people hopefully they stayed around But it includes uh from ownership Mauricio Rivera Krishner himself and his architectural team um we have others from nomades uh we also have the general contractors from Amaria we have the structural engineers of record from Optimus um as well as grouo NH so with that I I'll pass it over if we could pull up our presentation and I'll pass it over to uh fored to to walk you through it um should I make it full screen or not yeah yeah well thank you so much for the opportunity and for the time I'm fre each to come from R&D no matter architect uh well I hope that all the team is there I still there I don't know but uh well uh please um well in the in the last month um we were doing a preconstruction phase uh for the project because uh you know the the unique elements that we have there we were doing a lot of research and talking with a different companies in different uh countries in the world um we are in that moment we did uh this uh dream team with uh several companies from Mexico Argentina Spain United States uh local for sure uh engineers and for landscape for civil for structure for sure uh we have been talking with uh several companies of glass of uh concrete uh selecting the perfect or the best uh system system for our project and uh doing all the work to guarantee that the design intent is going to be uh like the one that that we have we did and the design and the owners wanted and uh one of the principal thing is about maintenance uh and well if you remember the project uh we are design in this uh Museum house is the is the is the name that that that that we talk about about the house because the different incredible elements that the owner want to have there uh it's a tropical modern house uh with uh under story and two stories uh there and with a incredible canopy that is the focus point of the daily life in the house and for sure the canopy is uh is the is the goal is the challenge that we have here to uh guarantee that the image that you is the one that we are going to have in the fact uh that's why and uh in the this uh um scheme I think that this draw uh is a really good professional brief what uh about what we are doing there uh we are working in this moment uh with a conventional uh concrete structure in the first two stories and we are working from uh the Second Story to to build build the canopy with an steel uh structure and this parametric shape that we are doing with a cylinders element of Steel uh we already have the company who do this and uh in this moment we are going back and forward with the final design and um calculation of the elements and with the coordination with uh the concrete team and the uh uh gfrc panels that we need to install over the steel canopy um you know that this is the the the rabbit images of the project in which we are showing all the shape that we have with this uh parametric structure that is in this moment uh is a fible in a geometrical cost and in a building way uh we did several uh you know uh go um back and forward with the engineers uh solving the perfect elements of building detail that we need to have to do it in a right way in the field at the end of the day just uh just because the shade bad uh is an uh typical steel structure and in this moment we are working with the efrc company uh with the division of Spain in the final painting of the the finishing of the of the of the element uh and we are doing several um uh and different um um prove about the the the colors and about the texture of the of the concrete I think that this is one of the the reference project uh that we checked with the companies it is practically the same that we're going to what we're going to have the steel structure with the efrc concrete uh um elements you know covering all the uh steel structure no you know the the project and uh in this moment with all the work that we did in the last uh seven or eight months uh I think that we are really clear about the path that we are working and we are really clear about the visibility of The Proposal that we have and the construction system that we select and for sure with the budget that we have and uh with uh all the process that we need to coordinate to uh transform this uh dream in a fact in uh in Miami Beach and we just have the same plan Resa from our team is there he's the head of the technical uh Team of the office um but if you have any question about the process I hope that Chris and the engineers and the structural I think that they are there too we are absolutely happy to respond any kind of a question thank you thank you very much that conclud that conclud the presentation thank you um before we move on I just want to say thank you for your patience and and as you can see we had to adjust things so I I we all appreciate that yeah that you were here and you waited and it was it made things easier thank you thank you um are there any members of the public wishing to speak no hands are raised online okay then I'm now going to close the public portion open it up to the board for any comment um I will actually begin in that the you know the the reason that this was say continued was that you know the architect the one architect that we have on the board had some you know questions about the structure and and unfortunately she's not here today so I'm I don't really know where that leaves us I don't know what the other board members I I sort of I was really looking forward to hearing her thoughts on this because we're not I mean I don't I don't know if you feel like you're able to I wasn't even here for the initial presentation so much so to catch you up this is as you can see this very spectacular very um unique Innovative I like that's the word of look very Innovative design and shaa had some reservations about at least at that point is this what you're showing us is that structurally possible and are we really going to get this or is it going to change significantly and so as part of the condition we had them come back so she could review Once they did once you did all the work that you've done just to see in case it did in case you found it seems like you found people to say yes we can make this work and here's how it can be H happening and her concern was that they wouldn't be able to do it so that's why they're back again so so I don't I I mean what I know you have Architects on your staff how you think that they did satisfy the needs and it sounds all the technical sounds appropriate to you yes I mean it's it still needs to obviously go through the building permit process and make sure the structural review and all that stuff we did meet with the applicant and they they presented to us other examples of this type of architecture being approved not necessarily in the city of Miami beach but in other places and it is it is feasible to design uh a roof system with those curves and and with these shapes that they're that they are proposing um it is possible to design it and meet the wind loads that are that are required here in Dade County um so they they satisfied our our questions um that we had uh regarding the feasibility of the project and and we think it can proceed and and did you have the same um questions that Shauna did that when she brought those up right yes yeah we asked water drainage about uh the feasibility of how it's all going to function how it's going to stand how is how are the columns work underneath um um waterproofing and and repairs maintenance over time because that's that's a that's a major issue um and and they satisfied our our questions regarding its its feasibility and long-term maintenance okay so um I just um I think you know they've they're going ahead and doing their due diligence and getting all the documentation calculations uh for wind load and and Fabrication that is required but through permitting process if this doesn't meet the code um from a structural standpoint and and all of the following then it's not going to be permitted so all I think we can ask is that if because of the dur if during permitting process the design changes can that then be brought back to the design review board AB well staff would say it's inconsistent with the drb approval and and they'd have to come back right yeah right absolutely and they're not going to get permitted unless it meets the Florida building code so I don't see a problem with them proceeding my on my um my my one concern with this design which I had aired that concern the last times you were here is with the roof structure and I remember the roof structure looking different did it change from what you presented versus now or no so what we initially presented you know the things on top the the little on top so part of the direction of this board was to reconsider the rooftop um that was built into the already approved order um so as part of engineering of this roof structure they have reconceptualized those they look you you refer to them as bird cages previously um they have reconfigured them but this is still conceptual um but yes it it has improved changed we simplified the elements on the rooftop uh we understood that maybe the the bird cage uh was uh um maybe a two formal additional element to the to the architecture and we simplified and this element just for protection that we need for the elevators and the stairs and uh that's why In This Moment it's just a cylinder and then so we reduce the high yeah that I mean that that was one of my main concerns because and that's with the structure overall it it's it's very high I mean it's essentially I I saw in one of the material you submitted I think it was 51 ft mhm from ground I mean that so that's essentially a five-story building in a residential neighborhood and unlike some of the homes maybe on North Bay Road that are waterf facing you know I'm concerned with the appropriateness of the scale of this building within this direct neighborhood that if it was say on the water side of North B Road there's nobody behind them um you know if the house is set back it's but this is you've got houses all around this is a landlocked lot I know it's a large lot which you know that's why you have a very large house but to add height and to add height and to add height and especially with the design I mean it's it's supposed to look sort of soaring you know you have this undulation like it's flying which is very beautiful but then you have these roof structures and so I I I think I really appreciate the design without the roof elements I think that the roof elements make it less compatible with the neighborhood and I think it also takes away significantly from the interest in the roof line I understand that you have to have you know like the elevator you know things on the roof but I would just I think that design of the structure would be significantly enhanced if that was not necessarily recreational amenity up there but it was just a roof um and that was what I meant my comment last time and I stick with it although that this is maybe lightened up a little bit it's that anything is you know I don't think there should be anything on there and then in terms of the height again with the compatibility of the neighborhood and one of our main charges as the drb is to ensure that all the buildings are compatible with their neighbors and I feel like with this design it's not and it's not because of the lower structures it's just because of the height so I I don't know what my other uh board members would say but I I feel very strongly about that Ro Helio I'm reading the um uh me memorandum uh staff report and recommendation it says that the maximum height allowed in the area is 50 feet and the proposed height is 40t which is equivalent to four story on there 30 it's but with the highest projection being 55 and those iome are the bird cages oh okay yes the so the maximum height limit is 31 ft but we do allow for height exceptions um up to I believe 20 feet above the above the roof line for um uh rooftop decks for elevator uh cores for ele um for some other features that are that are open air so in this case um if they're at 40 feet that's without the bird cages you allow for an additional rooftop you just mentioned of five feet the roof the roof line cannot exceed 31 feet so the the the curbs for the for the roof deck the those are those are additional height exceptions that are allowed in the code um the the roof deck can only occupy uh percentage of the rooftop I believe it's 25 20 let me look up the code section but I believe it's 20 20 20% of the rooftop I also thought that anything on the roof couldn't be solid cover or is that I could be wrong uh elevator cores can and a small elevator uh Lobby can everything else has to be open but there're a lot the height of these bird cages is how how much from ground to from top to bottom from top to bottom eight is the minimum that we can have in a technical way I'm sorry eight eight feet yeah it's the minimum that we can have in a technical way to cover so these bird cages are eight feet high yeah and and that is allowed by code Ro Helio yeah let me look up the exact number but I believe so yeah let me let me look up the exact number so I can and we have all the setbacks that the code uh require for you know reduce the the the vision from the street to that one okay and and through the if I may we we did agree in the existing board order to reduce the height um below the maximum permitted so we're not maxing out height right everything unit size setbacks everything fully complies with the code no I understand I mean and that's minimize that impact that that's what I'm saying you know I mean I understand that this is the code um and clearly with the design of the entire house you've really like gotten very creative which is what is allowed under the code you know which I think it's really interesting but you know we're looking at the context of the neighborhood and it's so much um and just with the design a lot of times you know it's the design of the building makes it look taller or shorter you know that's I mean that's why we review the under stories to make sure it doesn't it still reads as a house as opposed to a three-story building and with this it's just it's it's just out of proportion with the neighborhood just the the design design that maybe if and I'm not saying you should do this if say the roof structure was a little bit more simpler you wouldn't have that but it is and I'm not saying you should take that away like that's a major element but it's it's there are design choices that were made that I think were good but as a whole it comes across as being out of proportion for the neighborhood and and and that was why I was against the roof structures in addition I happen to also feel like the roof itself self is busy enough and just from a design aesthetic perspective it's just it it's just except it I think the building itself would look a lot better without having the activation on the roof and that you could appropriately hide the elevator and the you know the air conditioning screening where you wouldn't notice it but as designed with all of these other seating areas and and amenities that counteracts that and it's it's it's almost fighting the roof because it's also very busy it's not just one thing you have all these swirly different things it's the entire roof it's the entire roof I don't disagree with um the comments just made but Ro Helio can you explain if the highest projection is 55 ft and the maximum allowed is 50 feet so the the highest projection is the so the allowable height exceptions are actually 10 feet um so if the height limit is 31 feet then the projections could go up to 41 feet um and so that's um um the rooftop deck so so for allowable height exceptions we allow for elevator bulkheads located as close to the center over the roof as possible uh and to be visually recessive so that they not do not become vertical extensions of the exterior building elevations we do allow for some covered structures which are open on all sides and do not extend the interior habitable space and such structures shall not exceed a combined an area of 20% of the enclosed floor area below immediately below and shall be set back a minimum of 10 ft from the perimeter of the enclosed floor below um and then the other rooftop exception that they would have are uh parapet walls only when associated with the habitable roof deck or when used to screen the top of mechanical equipment when associated with the habitable deck the parit wall shall not exceed 3 feet 6 in above the finished roof deck height uh and those are those are basically the allowable height exceptions that they're that they're utilizing we're if you can bring it up we're looking at um from the architectural plans it's architectural plans too it has it's a drawing that has the the elev it's an elevation the elevation let's see it's the uh East Elevation if you're if you're looking at 50 ft you may be looking at the measurement from grade yeah um as opposed to the measurement from the from the base flood elevation PR plus freeboard yes which doesn't count so maybe that's maybe that's where where the well this is I mean this is how the code is that it's okay there's this is the max and then there's freeboard and then there's you know I want to I I I I think we need to always look at from the ground right the Earth to the absolute top of the building which according to their elevation is 51 ft yeah yes from grade yes that's you know with this double lot very large and so so that's that's the issue that I'm having and I realize that it is yeah we're not counting the height until you get above the freeboard that's where we start measuring your height right so you're saying the 51 fet of height that they currently have in the East Elevation page at least is allowed even though the maximum allowed is 50 feet the according to the memorandum the maximum allowed is is 31 feet plus the 10 feet of projection so that's essentially 41 feet um and then everything below their freeboard is is not counted as part of their height limit so from wherever the sidewalk is to the base flood elevation plus freeboard that doesn't count as part of their height limit we start measuring your height from that point up so that may be that may be higher than the sidewalk that's probably you know four or five feet higher maybe six feet higher than the sidewalk level yeah um I'm sorry I think that one of the important thing to to to talk and to understand and I agree about the uh maybe if you see the house is is too high but the thing is uh the city increased or the FEMA increased the Cronos is three three feet for the 2025 if we receive the requirement to design with the new crown of the street that's for sure that then with the new Cronos Street with the new requirement of FEMA the old houses are under the level of the water that's one of the thing that because you see maybe this in this way because when you see the the the the new FEMA requirement is over the level of all the houses in the the all houses in the area yeah no I'm not I I I'm I agree especially in Li of what just happened um with the with Hurrican Helen I'm not saying lower the lowest floor I'm just saying the the the structures that you put on the roof you know are just excessive yeah roio and I I'm sorry but I'm not understanding um if the proposed is a 40 foot height um four story structure the maximum allowed is 50 the the so the the height limit to the roof is 31 feet and then you're allowed some minimum minimal exceptions above that of up to 10 ft which makes it 41 okay and then you have to subtract from there and so then everything below yeah everything below we don't count as part of your high limit everything below the the under story and how high what is the height of that it depends on the B flood elevation in the in the grade um let me pull it up real quick there it looks 13 they're using yeah they're using they're maxing it out the freeboard is is 5 feet um let me look up where the great elevation is here it said that the understory ceiling is 15 so from the ground to the ceiling of theory So it's 15 plus the 31 plus the 10 so Madam chair can I just give a so this is a little bit confusing we did want to give all the different measurements how you could measure height but you all have to remember the Genesis of all this is when there's a conflict between the Florida building code and the City Zoning code the Florida building code and anticipation of sea level R said you all must put your slab at base flood elevation plus one plus one but then the city of Zing because was like well they might say that but we measure from grade and so they penalize people that are trying to be more resilient so the city thoughtfully revised the zoning code and said okay we're not going to penalize you anymore we're not going to measure height from grade we're going to measure height from base Le elevation Plus freeboard in order to encourage resiliency I tell you every client that approaches me now wants to do an under story they don't want any house anywhere close to the Ser War so almost all homes are going to be under stories that you all will consider going forward so here what our client offered to do we understand your concern that we're just adding massing on top of massing so we can substantially reduce the cladding uh that's around these rooftop features and just bring it down to what's absolutely minimum to screen the AC and the elevator uh to address your concern about there's too much height but we are doing things in accordance with the code yeah we're not trying to be tricky or anything like that is it possible to reduce the height of the under story that my understanding from looking at this minimum elevation drawing is 15t in height minimum yeah we're are the minimum beatable we have a l of 10 ft there uh this says 15 ft obviously this is not correct because you're saying you're at the minimum because yes the the clear space is the minimum that we have in this moment the the 15 ft is essentially from generally sea level so so it's probably the grade is probably at four I would I would assume yes it's about four between four and five so then so then you're really the 15 minus four you're really at 9 ft above we have less and that's basically the roof the the space between the floor of the understory and the ceiling of the understory EXA which I think I don't I don't think you should my issue isn't with the under story I think they're very useful and I'm happy to see more of those projects my issue is on the one hand with how the code is written now that we are doing under stories I think there also needs to be an acknowledgment that maybe because we're raising the underst story for very appropriate reasons that maybe there shouldn't be these rooftop structures that those which are unnecessary um those are part of the problem and I think in this case not only do you have these roof structures but from a design perspective they're interfering with your design and and you know I could see how your client wants to have a habitable roof but from the perspective of making this a really Exquisite notable design those roof structures are counteracting the effect and and I I think it's I think the design would be much more strong if it didn't have those in addition it's not these the height that's being created which although that with this design is not compatible with this neighborhood that maybe if the lot was in a different location it would be but in this plot of land in this context in this specific situation the height of the structure as proposed I do not think is appropriate and is compatible with the neighborhood and that is something that we are responsible for insuring and and at the end of the day this may meet the the zoning code no otherwise it wouldn't have been here um but the problem is that we see is that it does not blend with the rest of the homes community that this home is being built on um it just sticks out and if it were further back recessed but you can't because usually those lots are about 120 deep um and there's houses behind it and there's houses behind it so you you can't um it there's no way for it to blend and that's the problem that it doesn't work with the rest of the community but it meets the code I don't know that we can take a stand otherwise I mean I that's what we are here for that's what we are chair if I can ask a procedural question on that point um so we have design review board approval and we have landscape approval and we came before this board and I'm asking it of roio um we came before this board specifically to address condition C um at this time can we add another condition um saying that we would agree to review and minimize any additional roof structures to the minimum extent necessary I mean I thought that the that the order was that the roof structure would be addressed I mean you Chang the roof structure from what we saw and from what we sort of approved under the condition that you would work with staff to minimize it and it it hasn't been minimized to the effect that I think it needs to be so I do think this is appropriate for something that we should discuss and and and you know if you could I also was very much under the impression that one of our major criteria to review on is it is a structure compatible with the neighborhood and even if it does meet the zoning code if it's not compatible then we do not have to approve it and so but then why did we in the last because they said they were going to change it and they didn't change it in the way that I think it doesn't until it get changed it doesn't get approved until it gets changed and I thought that it was only coming back because um a board member expressed concern with the with that roof structure being structurally sound uh which to me if it's not structurally sound they're not going to get the permit corre now if it's not um what's the word that you used if it doesn't blend with the rest of the neighborhood that's a different issue altogether but the the primary I understand what you're saying I'm not challenging your authority to further shape the design but this last hearing you know this last part of the triplet this Trinity that we're on was just really to discuss the constructibility because it was an unusual design and that was what Shauna had requested but Madam chair again I'm not disputing you want the rooftop further addressed and I think that's fine but what I'm asking you all is would you agree to a condition to substantially reduce all the rooftop structures like you know you call them bird cages I don't know it's the best term but it's descriptive term um we'll just reduce them down to the minimum necessary to screen them it could only be like five feet above the roof you know for the mean what is with the insistence of having that be a habitable amen I mean is that was that something that that in a technical way we need to protect the the stairs and elevator I understand that and that's it we just we we we don't have any kind of a a vitable area there it's just a door with a small Lobby to protect the door of the elevator that right so you can access the air conditioning and the elevator machine room no that we are we are selecting In This Moment uh vacuum elevator for example to reduce the high of the elevator because we don't have to have a we don't want to have a machine room in the top of the elevator because with that we need more H that's why we are change we changed the system it's uh it's a little bit more expensive but we did it to reduce the height of the element in the elevator and for the St we just need the the minimum by coat to uh have a a door and to um go into the house in the in the in the in the stairs that that's it we we are trying to do the minimum that we we are allowed to do it by cod in a technical way right and I don't think the bird cages are the only issue that keep this project from being compatible with the rest of the neighborhood I think it's the roof itself um and the bird cages are you know the elevator housing is another issue but it's the roof itself it just um while beautiful it's just not compatible with the rest of the neighborhood I I think that's what I heard at the last meeting and what I'm hearing again this time I mean I don't I don't actually I don't mind the roof I just think that the what you're I'm wrong thank you but I do think that what you've popped on top of it goes it the building should end at that really pretty roof that that's that's all I'm trying to say and that the I don't think that the roof and I thought I was more clear with this the last time but I guess I wasn't that the there the roof should not be habitable space it just should be access that and because you're you're putting amenities up there it's countermanding the beauty of the roof and like I said it just it it makes it Myra's point was that she felt the roof itself was incompatible with the neighborhood but with this addition it's it's it's bringing it it's pushing the boundaries even more I guess that's what so I think that that's that's part of the objection and um why would you if if you're not going to if the roof is not going to be a habitable space why would you need access to it why would there need to be a stair uh this moment we we have uh just roof up to to our client want to go there to see the city that's it uh we don't have any kind of activity there uh we don't have a a beable aable area we don't have G we don't have anything there just just a an space to to see the city that's it it's a small it's not a big area there we just including uh the the the landscape there to do it more uh human Spa human enjoyable area that that's it but it's a it's a meditation Terrace at the end of the day that that that is exactly the the requirement of the of the client it's a meditation uh Terrace and uh we are preventing uh you know with elevator um accessibility for the future and uh we are we eliminate every another kind of activity there in in our in our proposal is there a way that you could because the really the the Necessities the Necessities that you would need on the roof are a bit of height for the elevator for the Elevator Shaft and then also for screening for any of the I'm seeing like an air conditioning unit and like that I can understand the elevator location is pretty fixed um but if you just added the area the screening for the air conditioning made it very very close to the Elevator Shaft and that was all that was on there I guess that's when I'm getting at we have an option that that um I can I can extend to the owner I think that he's going to he's I think he agree with that uh we can change the the elevator for an expensive one with a protected door there and we can change the covering for glass maybe this could be less uh present in the in the in the in the from the perspective of the of the of the people of the neighbors was I guess I should say this the elevator is there elevator access to the roof it was supposed to serve the roof as well know and that's we have have access to the roof with elevator the elevator so and then the stair is just extra yeah because because fire we we can't have anyone there uh without uh an IG uh right area there yeah exit there what is the area that's oval um it appears like a seating area that's on the uh southwest corner oh I think this might be the AC units the AC units is that what that is yeah I think I I think so white one other the thing that that we wanted to to show in one of the rendering from the from the street is that with uh with the setback that we have there H it's almost impossible to see the element from the street because we have uh I think that 15 age between the the border and the yeah it's it's we put it in in the center of the structure we try to reduce to minimum technical uh for technical feasibility we reduce it but uh maybe we can change the the finishes by glass is is is going to look maybe more more simple well and I I ALS I was I was thinking about that I could tell that that's why you put that picture in but then that was when I started thinking about the people that live behind this house and that they're going to see it they're lower they're higher but they're lower they're going to see it and and again and this is when I this is when I started thinking very critically about the compatibility of the structure with the neighborhood and to the point of the height I mean the views that you're going to get from that Second Story which is really in relation to the other buildings the third story they're probably going to be able to see from that entire second floor that's enclosed in glass they're probably going to be able to see the bay they're probably going to be able to see a view that if you were on the roof of the houses next door it would be the same view so they get a roof view from the inside of their house with the nice air conditioning and all the pleasant thing and so that that is part of why what I'm seeing is that having this on top this extra habitable space is just it's unnecessary like I could see how you need the air conditioning and you get the top of the elevator the elevator doesn't need to a to access the roof but you need some all of the Mechanicals but it doesn't need to have a spa and a roof Garden and in all of these things that that's my point this is what we could re we could offer to you all like so can you go back where Sor so on the north is the elevator overrun right we can get rid of the Hut and just make it as as just as minimal as possible okay tracking down from there we can narrow or reduce the parit wall for that rooftop area just make it as minimal as possible you know and if the trees bother you we can get rid of the the one two trees right going south to the stairwell bulkhead again get rid of the Hut and just make it as narrow and as minimal as possible just to meet Florida building code with regard to the circle around the AC equipment we can reduce that just to the minimum necessary to screen it to screen it I thinket in height yeah and even move them closer that would be fine too so with those four actions I think we've really reduced the what you consider offensive about adding addition on POS of an addition that you don't like well and it's it's not even offensive is a strong word I'm just saying it it counteracts the effect of the design true you know it it really I I just want to see the the roof undulations and now you're interject you know you're you're breaking it up with things it's like no this is it goes against the Rhythm so artistically it and then also it's it's if there were other structures in the neighborhood that were just as tall it wouldn't have it wouldn't be as much of an issue from a non-artistic point of view but because it's already so much higher right than anything else around it and there are houses all around it because it's a landlock property that's what makes it incompatible so I think at least to your point of how can we reduce it MH as much as possible and that was what struck me cuz I I recall the the version that we saw last time it didn't have the screening it was all white no am I not remembering it correctly no it was it was uh it was there the screen used to be white the the bird cage used to be white all white uh maybe that was it too maybe now that you changed the material it made it more pronounced as opposed to less we can change it to white again you know I mean I don't know I don't know but I I to you're you know I appreciate that you're trying to find a solution a compromise and it's just it's just yeah I mean I think it would be better if maybe it existed but you didn't see it from the street but they knew it was there almost like a secret Roof Garden sort of setup because right now it's it's it's it's counteracting the effect that I think you are going for okay well can we can you all accept those four modifications I can go through them again it's yeah I mean I'm a little nervous because that was sort of what I was getting at the last time and then this is what we got so I I don't know if I should be more I mean this SCS very specific or if staff needs more Direction about that but I think what were your stipulations Michael that you mention there there's four so the first was remove the northern Hut make the elevator overrun just as minimal as possible that's number one number two and wait to do that so maybe you would make the the roof flat as opposed to that be or something you know I I agree with that approach too uh the second approach is because I should say also how it is now too it looks like you have these two giant chimneys at the top of your house yeah and again that see that doesn't that's not the effect that I think you're going for yeah we we'll just make it whatever's for to building code necessary it'll be as small as possible the second we move the north hot flat roof yeah flat roof remove the Hut effect remove like the beige covering it'll just be white again whatever is there it'll be white again um reduce the rooftop deck area to as minimal as possible remove the trees that's the third thing actually remove the trees remove the trees make the rooftop deck area as minimal as possible next is the South Hut so that's the stairwell bulkhead so make that just whatever minimal Florida building code required that's what we'll do it'll be white and then shifting West from there is the AC inclosure area we'll push that closer to the stairwell bulkhead and we'll just do a minimal screening around it yeah and minimal screening around the staircase on the south end yeah yeah I mean I I think that that would be if I mean I really think that you should reconsider any anything up there but if if that's the um if that has to be the compromise we appreciate it thank you thank you a third comment can you repeat it how about how about this I'll make I'll make a motion and I'll try to go through all of these four stipulations and I know I'm going to need help along the way okay so I make a motion that we oh sorry wait a minute you mentioned the trees we talking about reducing all of the green or I think there should be some green up there but it doesn't need to be trees it can be shrubs no more than three feet in height you can just reduce the Planters to the minimum to have some green there but just a small uh plants no more than three feet in height yeah but this is so then this continues to be a livable outdoor space when you put trees up there well no trees we're saying remove or or even shrubs it it continues to be an outdoor livable space right and that's what I'm saying is not working yeah yeah yeah I mean that's the you know and then you have the the the Planters and then you have the W the irrigation for that and all you know it all have to remove the necessitates stuff all right so we remove the Planters and the trees everything make it as Spartan as possible I mean yeah because you don't want it to conflict with correct Ro Helio can I ask you a question does the code allow for four story structures that in in single family residential neighborhoods that include the under story and then a rooftop outdoor rooftop livable area besides two livable it allows for an open air rooftop uh deck area yes and what is allowed in that roof deck the roof deck um has to be set back from the edges of the property a minimum of 10 feet it can't exceed 20% of the floor area belowa um it can have some open air building so you can't have enclosed floor area up there but you can have open air spaces that are livable that is you can have um Furniture up there but you can't have any kind of enclosed area correct to sit on EX the only enclosed area would be the elevator elevator whatever is needed for elevator staircase and the mechanical mhm equipment that gets which is which can be screen yeah and you can you can have also covered um like a trellis structure up there as well okay but it can't be an enclosed hitable space you want to start from the top sure I make a motion that we approve the design of the roof with the following um conditions one one that they remove the north Hut um covering and replace the roof with a flat roof that we reduce the rooftop deck no I'm sorry number two that we remove all the trees shrubs and Planters um number three that we um reduce the height of the staircase on the south end um and four that we reduce the rooftop deck the AC mechanical equipment the AC mechanical equipment make the screening as minimal as possible and move it farther east to be closer to the stairwell main area Okay staircase else on the south okay yes we also profer to reduce the parit wall surrounding the roof top deck area and then make it a little bit smaller that was the last thing we did you mean surrounding the the mechanical room and mechanical equipment and that there's a seating area in between the two Huts what we're saying is we'll reduce the parit wall that surrounds it yeah and then just reduce it slightly in size so whatever whatever the minimum would be for the Florida building code which I believe is 3' 5 in yep sorry 3 feet 6 inches m 42 in but your mechanical equipment allows 5et parit wall around it not the 3 feet 6 in whatever the minimum the Florida building is I think he had mentioned 5et whatever the air conditioner itself whatever the unit is we want it to be fully screened right all right okay second anybody that was an approval yes with those conditions yes that was the motion okay we're not going this again that was the motion we now need a second okay sure I'll second that okay motion by Miss buak aoli second by Miss Luen uh all those in favor I I any opposed motion passes thank you so much thank you so much thank you and you know what I'm there you have the Tris there so there will be green on the roof that they can see so good luck thank you we have one item uh left we have two that I the applicants are not here so one one action item which one the last the last one it's a home at uh 1265 North biscane Point Road can we do a quickly up to the board we don't move quick enough can could you make I can't I have two other coordinated sorry all your awareness right yeah okay so should we get started then real quick on okay so this is drb2 24-10 38 this is 1265 North biscan Point Road an application has been filed requesting design review approval for the construction of a new two-story residence with an understory level including one or more waivers to replace an existing residence um this is in the RS3 District lot size of 11,360 square ft um they are proposing um um an under an understory home the um the understory home will be replacing existing residence constructed in 1953 um the underst story um um will be include um a base will be built at 7 feet 2 17 feet 2 in ngvd so there's a freeboard of of uh they're maximizing their freeboard and they're actually exceeding their freeboard for their for where their minimum floor elevation will be um the twostory uh residen is is designed in a contemporary architectural style with high quality finishes including bronze metal fluted tiles wooden glass uh the front elevation is highlighted by a double bronze uh metal louvers um and and some angled columns um the sides and the rear elevations continue to be clad with fluted tiles and uh and metallic Bron bronze cornices accenting the roof line um staff does have concerns with the front facade um that it could potentially be viewed as imposing to the street given the horizontality of the of the design um and so the facade does comply with a requirement typically we have a requirement for not typically we do have a requirement for two-story homes that 35% of the second floor be set back in additional 5 feet from the required set back in this case the entire home is set back um to 35 ft so they are complying with that requirement however the intent that there be some movement is not complied with so staff does have concerns and staff does recommend that there be additional res is at the second level somehow um um in order to in the second level in order to minimize that that horizontal that vertical impact um in the design um the applicant is requesting also a waiver uh the side yards have a have a length greater than 60 feet um so they are requesting a waiver of the of the open courtyard requirement for the side yard um in this case they're exceeding the requirement by 9 ft 2 and2 in so it's 69 ft it's minimal um the design is um while they don't have the open space the design does have uh movement um does is designed well um so staff is not opposed to that waiver given how little they are overrunning that that uh that requirement um so with that staff recommends that the application be approved subject to the conditions in the attached draft order um and turn it over to the applicant okay good afternoon Matt amster with the LA burkow Rell Fernandez Lin and tap that's office at 200 souc Boulevard uh in Miami um I don't know if all of our teams been sworn in so you might want to quickly do that for us and we do have one person on Zoom uh on dress Montero is our landscape architect got is he is he on the is he on Zoom he should be on Zoom I'm not expecting him to uh have to speak okay all right um yes if you are not here this morning then um if you could stand up and uh raise your right hand uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you will be giving in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right thank you uh so here today representing uh the owner uh and uh of this property and the applicant which is uh 1265 nbpl LC um and with me is that the effective owner uh yanuk AIA he's a 14-year Miami Beach resident he actually lives in the nearby area and is looking to build this home for his family uh we also have Edwin PDA and others here from yoden architecture uh Renee Gonzalez uh is a architect of record uh and as I mentioned Andres mono is our landscape architect and my colleague Michael yannopoulos uh from our firm who gave you a handout um if we can call up our presentation uh the smaller handout is uh yanuk himself went around the neighborhood especially to our nearby neighbors uh to um seek support you know explain the uh project and has gotten three letters of support that are your handout it's the two properties to our uh West and uh then not our adjacent property I'll explain that in a minute but the one uh further to the east um but as you can see um this is now oriented where North is to the left uh our property is uh with the label 1265 uh but there's a vacant property to our um East which is under construction in fact this is an old aerial um there's actually a two-story home with an understory that this board approved on that property also to our the uh you know to the bottom of this which is our West is another drb project uh also with a approval that also has an understory so we're basically uh sandwiched in between two approved and one definitely under construction and then even across the street which is to the right in this diagram you see also uh it's an area in transition another home that's uh going to be built uh yanuk re tried to reach out to the owners of those uh properties but being under constru R it's a little difficult to get to them so essentially he's gotten support of the nearby uh neighbors um let how uh so here just to give you an idea uh the bottom left is actually that home to our East under construction that was the vacant l on the aerial so you can see that their home with an understory is already under construction um these are just homes of uh pictures of our home but you can see at the bottom middle and the bottom right side that also shows you you know that new home um near our uh East uh property line um yeah I'm going to turn it over to Edwin since there's limited time great so um the archit okay the architectural design of the two story deing um approach a architectural minimalist style okay which integrated the um openness privacy and the combination of uh indoor and outdoor uh conception with the surrounding okay what are okay what are the key elements of the design we have under stor level which is uh integrated with the landcaping and also I want to I pointed out that in this level the at the front setback the house is um uh towards to the interior so there is a um depth on the design of the main facade of the house the the principal access to the house um is elevated and is also access to as like a modern staircase that um leading to the first floor in a open Co Cod yard partially to this to the sky but also setb from the front facade okay the openness of the L allows to integrate with the exterior and the surrounding and also complying with all the needs that the uh um and requirements of the occupies okay another element of the design is the the roof element which is a interrupted line is interrupted line that goes through all the perimeter of the house and provides a like a minimalist design but also a slick detail in all the way through okay regarding the materials there is a composition of um different elements okay we have the concrete which provide like more solid or uh rostic pattern and fillings to the house and the wood and the warming colors balance the the overall okay regarding the front facade H we have some um particular elements that H goes through the two story levels and integrate the overall facade those elements also provide privacy uh provides a um V ation but provide also to um like a contemporary design to the house uh also the house features um um you know a certain amount of glazing that provide natural light going inside the house okay regarding the front facade we have a um combination of different depths in all the elements that play very well and make a um a play of between the light and the chons during all the day Ed why don't you go back for a second to the colored one yeah well not to belver the point of the different depths um it's important that the the red on the left is uh are those louvers they they are closer spaced than the blue ones on the right side on purpose to help with this also the red ones are closer to the building wall uh where the blue ones are actually further out towards the street and it helps again at various different both levels and areas and then behind at the ground level on the right side behind the blue um there's a open courtyard like on the first level right behind that it's there's just a parapet wall and it's like a green space but um under the cover of the bedroom above uh and then on the what you can see on the left side of the drawing that's actually the ground level and you can see that it's all green because that is a basically see-through transparent open space um and going uh uh perpendicular to that like through the entire building if you go back a page um yeah no one back to the colored right there um at the top you can see uh that green space up at the top uh right that's the Courtyard on the first level and then coming through the building East West um is a basically an open courtyard it makes for the compliance of our Courtyard on the east side which is the top of that drawing and then at the bottom it's open and uh while we don't fully meet the requirement for the uh waiver it's that same Courtyard is uh providing openness and if you go to the next image this now shows you on that uh west side of our property where we're asking for the waiver you can see the X the white X uh in the center at the ground level that's that sort of corridor through the building and then here as well with the openness of the understory and different setbacks at different levels this is how we meet our waiver um now you can go back to this one no um so here at the bottom just to give you a closeup um those are the louvers the spacing in between uh the left side is you know the west side of the building they're closer to the building wall the louers on the right side uh which were blue colored right those are further spaced out again all purposefully as long and there's those columns and other elements like the courtyard open space that provide that movement um and to expand upon that uh we prepar this handout really if you just go to the second page it's all you really need to look at it is a rendering of the two projects that our understory homes approved on either side of us uh and you can see that there's a great deal of architectural uh uniqueness between the projects uh which uh as well as those projects themselves have a variety of different setbacks different materials you know balconies uh uh different recessed areas and so every project is really providing what we feel is an appropriate amount of uh recess as well as a variation that itself uh we feel our project fits in as designed uh without any further recesses uh and will be again a welcome uh addition and good for the context of the neighborhood yeah okay so the overall you can see the all the elements or the key designs of the house we have the vertical elements uh we have the horizontally uh roof lines we have the permeability of the lubers that go through through the coar and the rest of the home um the combination of the materials the many access to the house the codar and some views from the from the [Music] size just 30 more seconds yeah so we we're that's our presentation we're um we agree with all of staff's condition although set for one which is i1d which is about providing additional recesses at the front which is why we spent some time to show you the color drawing the rendering of the three understory homes next to each other uh that we feel that our design is uh providing appropriate context for the neighborhood as well as you know the design intent and privacy that the owner is looking for so we just respectfully request approval uh with the elimination of that condition all else d yeah that's the one do that yes comment the public I'm sorry S no no I mean coms the public portion um for the sake of time I think that this project needs work and should be continued and I'm very happy to describe more what I mean but that's where my vote is going okay so I don't I don't know enough um you V for approval but you guys I can you guys please speak into the microphone oh turn on your microphone sorry you guys can give comments without my presence can you not you just can't take action yes but do you have can can I'm sorry do you have comments on the design that you would like I'm not an architect I'm a lawyer but you know the only time I ever have comments are on um are on variances yeah and then number requested so F roia does he need to be here to vote for the continuance for the continuance does he need to be here present to vote for or if we run out of time you just get bumped to the next month anyway automatically continued if you okay you may leave unfortunate but thank you very much um okay okay um do you I mean I can start I mean I don't know where you're going to go Sarah I mean I have I have different opinions I I think the design is excellent um I I appreciate staff's concerns about setting back the second story but I mean I think how you've offset that what what that's intended to do with the the louvers there's the the top piece is a little setback and the ceiling looks like it's floating I think that kind of gives that effect of relief that is maybe what the intent of having that setback is there for um so that really didn't concern me um and I mean I appreciate the design I think that you know I also appre appreciate the understory acting as a true understory not as an additional floor as we see sometimes um so yeah I I um I'll see what you have to say Sarah but that those are my initial Impressions based on the presentation thank you yeah Mar did you want to speak or do you want me to go ahead okay first of all um Matt I'm really glad that you pointed out that detail on the side I did not read it initially as being sort of set aside and that there were holes and the the volumes didn't translate into the drawings so I'm very glad that you mentioned that because now I'm able to read it in a different way um so overall I very much agree with staff about the facade and and I would even go so far to say as one of the things that strikes me is that the front facade looks radically different than the other three and I would really you know you you have this which is essentially especially now that I see that it's not fully attached it's just like a a giant fence in front of the house um that goes to stories toall I mean that's sort of what it reads like and again I'm looking at a drawing not an actual but that's that's my concern and then these details aren't there's no cohesion between the facade and the rest of the house um so I think that your goal of creating privacy sort of swung a little too far to too much um and and these I don't know what you call the columns the the flanks that also I think that contributes to the sort of imposing nature of the facade that maybe is what you know the staff had some comments on um I know that we did approve a house on North Bay Road a while ago that had these um by the front entrance however that house was on I think a double I think they combined two very large lots and the scale was very different and it had a very different effect um than this does so I for that one side I I agree with staff that it's it's imposing and it needs to be reworked um in terms of the waiver for the side um I I guess now that so that side can you bring up because I'm trying to decide the side with the courtyard is that the west or is that the east east is it that's the east side and then it's the west side that you're requesting the waiver for correct is that correct so the openness so Matt your argument that the east side is very open therefore the west side doesn't have to be was that what you were trying to say no I was just indicating that we are compliant on the east on the East which is where the the roof allows for the openness you know clear from the ground which is the the requirement that we don't meet on the west side but the West has first that that Corridor that goes east west through the house itself at the first level uh I don't know if you want to draw pull up the yeah pull up a drawing because I'm I'm in general it threw me with that one detail and now I'm I'm not I'm convinced I don't have a good sense of the massing of the house so so uh obviously at the bottom is is the understory which by code has to be extensively open so it is uh extensively open uh the the the part furthest out towards the sidey yard is just the stair which is the little green like a little support structure for an outdoor stair uh with the glass railing um so the blue at is uh is the the next depth uh which is the majority of the ground floor but then on purpose to reduce the scale and massing which is the whole intent of this requirement in the code to add the additional open space is to not be you know imposing upon your neighbor and uh that's where at the gr at the second floor there's additional setbacks of um two feet 7 inch further is the red and then orange goes even further uh five more feet from that because it's a open you know it's a covered balcony essentially I see so you're back yes so everything is Right moving back a lot of play in the different depths and if you remember our neighbor also has an underst story uh you know themselves uh that will be built in the future um facing you know this the themselves so we're being as uh sensitive as we can with that uh and H you know have as an example right we uh the Courtyard by code and is supposed to be 8 ft deep uh obviously our our opening there on the ground level would otherwise be compliant it's just that we have a uh the programming of the floor above doesn't allow it to be open to the sky but then we push back above that right that the red area is further back the orange area is even much further back okay sorry I'm I'm furing my brow because I'm just trying to understand what you're saying in relation to what I'm looking at um do you have maybe you could bring up the I guess I'm looking at page 32 in the presentation which is essentially the the r the renderings a15 thank you 13 15 a15 that okay so the part just again so I'm orienting myself correctly the side that has the car and that's the driveway that's the east side correct corre okay and then so the photo to my right is the East and the photo to my left is the West Side yes right so let me and what you're saying is that is set back a little bit Yeah at the left at the left of this drawing all the way on the left side of the page right you can see uh in the center of the ground floor between the windows you can see that that's the corridor opening and then you can see that for sure that the second floor at the front of the home is set back uh noticeably as well as then you can see a glass railing which is the uh that Terrace for the bedroom at the rear of the home is even much further set back and remember you know the this area is 60 ft uh at most in order to uh then be required to provide additional open space I believe we're 69 and change like that so that the combination is not excessively over it's not 100 feet long of a clear two-story elevation you know we've definitely taken to Heart the intent of the code and we feel that this meets it extensively and we haven't even talked about Landscaping of which there will be significant amounts on both our property and our neighbors's property that provide additional screening you know of these facades so we feel that all that is uh meeting the intent and purpose of the code for the waiver okay um okay um and then and sorry again just to clarify and again running through this with the renderings the the um this Courtyard so in one of the images I guess it is a13 um on can you bring up a13 that oh yeah I don't are you supposing to put grass there is that why you're showing that it's going to be it's going to be a garden but it's going to be artif artificial Garden we are playing like the idea is to integrate this space like a green The Greenery inside but it's not going to be a natural not going to be a natur it's artificial ter yes but there's you know there's Planters you can see the yeah but I mean nothing's going to grow under there's no light there you know the things that I mean certainly grass isn't going to grow there and yeah but in the west side the facade is open and it's also partially open to the sky so but that's not well this is our representation but basically we want to this this card basically wants to integrate the the house in all the H like the ways on from north to south from west to east and also from bottom to to to the top so all the spaces that are vated with this card are connected by the if we see the L out it if you are in the card you can see the ocean because we have the in front of that we have the main living room of the of the house plus the office so we're trying to you know to like minim minimize the elements that we have in the in the facade H create permeability from the front to the back of the house do you have another sketch of the we can see it the courtyard Maybe that would one second I we can see it on the FL plant here it's funny that you use the word permeability because I feel like this house just feels really massive and permeable to me right but uh when we take a look of this setion and the front facade all the elements we are articulating with different clearance so there is a variation not also on the dep but also all the elements have a a a right position to to maintain like private privacy but also no have a permeability between the indoor and outdoor this is what I'm going to recommend I think because I get the sense to that I mean I don't know about I can't speak but I feel like at least the two of us I I'm just having trouble understanding the parts to the whole and you're like you can see through and I would like to see when you come back next time if you could build us a model it doesn't have to be elaborate but just so cuz what you're presenting here it's I what you're saying and what I'm seeing they're not really matching up and I think that that would really help your case and I it would convey your idea better than these flat drawings because it does seem like there are some pretty sophisticated inner workings of the massing happening and I think you know the courtyard I don't I don't understand the courtyard excessive can you go to a16 because I think that one shows at this is the the okay this is the over the first floor and that's what I W trying to say from the h front setback to the back of the the backyard so the coard is connecting you know in that access from uh north to south so we have well this is the answer right here okay so uh the card connect from north to south west to uh East and also we have a partially open H to the sky so it's the card is basically open to uh the rest of the house so we have different access the card is open to the office but we have premil we have we are proposing glaze panels uh between the office and the family yeah I think that's I think they would best convey what you're trying to say again you guys have to come back anyway if you could have some sort of model or something cuz it's it's I mean I don't know is it can you bring up A6 I disagree respectfully like it feels very light to me um I don't I don't know if um I mean I I don't disagree they have to come back anyways so if you know if that'll help you know you understand I I get this sense of of airiness I know that it's concrete I know that it's you know there imposing yeah I guess this is so that show bot the bottom right one so that's the so and part of my point yeah part of my point too is that this facade looks radically different than the other side and that I would like to see at least some sort of cohesion this does look light andary but your front facade is is very imposing which is I which is intentional but the elements the architectural elements that we want to wrap it up the the over architectural is the roof the lines of the eve of the of the building is the the connect the connectors that involve all the building all the massive so we're trying to create some privacy in the front yard but we want to open in the in the rear but internally the layout is connected right no no I I I yes no okay I'm understanding the concept so and I guess what I'm saying is that it it's it's impo it's to the point that it's imposing like it's too much so in looking at a16 um the ground floor there that apparently has some Chase lounges or chairs that's part of the courtyard or is that just the under story that's the under story okay so um this view of the house the rear view of the house facing the ocean um has I think what the city planning department is recommending that it isn't a flat front um as we have in the front view of the house but it's staggered you know it appears to be staggered anyways um and I think if you were to work on the front um of design of the house to comply more with what the planning department is saying I think it would it would give a more inviting and a less solid Block in the front of the home I don't know if I'm expressing myself no the owner of the the property hi if I can just try to explain the the facade I think that that your your you think it's very imposing which it's an opinion but I want to explain that the the show me the the the louvers yes they look if you see you see the space in between the louvers you have maybe I would say 70% of open space and inside this is what you see here you're facing south so this is the street so from the street even if you have lers you can see through it at a rate please speak into the microphone I think it's about 70% I I didn't calculate it I'm guessing from this but the L itself is a straight shot down it's a straight line down and what planning is saying and they they're here they can speak for themselves but at least what what I'm seeing um is that where the louvers allow that much visibility it's still in the front of the home it's straight from the top floor all the way down with the exception of the under story and then you have the two walls that go from top to bottom floor including the underst story which is the entrance it doesn't have because those louvers and and entrance walls walls are a straight line down it doesn't give any P any um um depth into the front of the design it's all one it appears if it's all one if I just want to clarify something to understand to know if I understand it correctly your recommendation was for the structure behind the louvers that are more than that are 5T deep I think our concern is with the themselves it's the louvers themselves and then to add to it it's the two walls that form the entrance to the house everything is flat and and and tall in the back and tall in the back you may have it set back we don't know we don't see it um but if that can be changed somehow so that it doesn't appear to give a flat um design in the front maybe some of the louvers don't go all the way up I'm I'm not sure exactly how you want to how you what what about I'm just throwing this out there if we left the louvers alone but the the door like the center piece which is all solid wood which is solid wood and it's very tall and then the the space above the door no not the walls the actual the door and then the space above the door like what if we played with materiality there making that transparent or maybe that get set back I don't know if that would break up the releas yeah I mean also we're not you know like no no no it's it's like I I I don't think it's it's our responsibility to resolve this but it this is the impression I I agree with I think it seems like at least myin I don't know if you're agreeing but we're agreeing very much with the staff that there's all these elements that you have at the front that make it seem imposing and unfriendly and there are other ways to perhaps incorporate privacy that don't make it read like you have a house that's encircled by two like a big fence yeah I understand the lers for us it's like a layer that is is AAL element the facade has this dip in all the you know from the bottom to the top and we understand that these elements might be impos but we try to play with the materiality which some ele elements are in like a concrete tester but the other ones with wood so it brings like a balance well and maybe that's what I'm saying that maybe your presentation that maybe if we saw a 3D model that showed the relationships between the different lines and the structures and the openness and the closedness that maybe can't be expressed as well in a 2D rendering that would become more apparent to us the Rhythm and the openness and to me I I I don't need the 2D rendering I'm just concerned with the look of the front of the house very different from the look of the back of the house MH and I think that goes into play with what the planning department is recommending and it's also the the materials that you have you have these heavy I mean you have concrete and stone and brown like it's dark and it's heavy and and it's and I understand that the louvers are meant to let light in but again you have a lot of them um yeah I mean this this is this is the the feedback I don't know if everybody you know I feel like we're all sort of touching on similar things but I I know that doing the 3D models are expensive maybe it can be just done on paper next time you come back in one you one point we we had somebody who often had we often requireed 3D models do you remember we had a board member who often even if it was like um you know a a but to the point of it is timely and costly and we are already inconvenience because there was not a full board today to I'm not saying I apologize and you know he only told me it's not 15 minutes ago I I'm sorry about that it's just the way that it is um but I wouldn't want to lose any more time I mean I think that rello is going to tell us if we don't get revisions to you by next Monday that we already Lo it's already two months before we have to come we can come back so uh as well as you know our burden is uh doubled because of the short board the other members aren't here they didn't get a chance to hear our presentation and your thoughtful comments so it's it's really troubling that I wouldn't want to just be we I appreciate the uh suggestion if that's what we can keep it at for a model we can see if we can get it done but I don't want to be required to do it if you can understand and we will do our best to obviously come back with a way to uh express it it was a suggestion because I you clearly have a a point of view and it's clear this is an important part of your design and I want you to be able to communicate that as effectively as possible and yeah I mean I think to see it in 3D would be able to communicate your idea best but that's just my suggestion but overall yes we have some criticisms of the design I I just I think I hear the same thing from her I personally do not need a 3D if you want to do something on paper because I know it's timec consuming and costly to do those 3D models but um um I would like to just see next time you come back some change to the front um that goes more in line with what the planning department is saying yeah I'm wondering for the 3D model issue like could we do we do have a 3D model if you want to see it oh yeah like maybe you do a video walk through or something is that something that I don't know that this the yeah I think you know what though I think it has to be part of the public record right anything that you submit so for next time in the past though I don't know if the system has been upgraded but there's maybe a limit to the file size and we haven't been able to get those that that's been difficult too problem I I think that is still a problem um I'll verify if that's if that's changed because we do have a new agenda system um but that has been a problem in the past I wonder too if even um like a not a laser printer but a 3D printer would be a less expensive way to create I I don't know but if we have a a visual 3D that we can move around yeah some rering but we can move around something that well that's what we're concerned that the file is going to be too big for the city system to handle so that that's that's yeah that would be fine yeah you know whatever but again it's just a suggestion to convey your idea we apologize that we don't have a full board today but hopefully what we've been say but you've gotten some comments and so um even if we would have had our fourth member today it wouldn't have been approved um so um I hope that these comments help you for the next presentation yeah do you have any other questions for us um I mean do you have a bit of like good direction of where you know recommendations where You' like to see a little bit so what we understood from staff was that the structure behind is at more than 5T because if you look at the lers actually the louvers on both sides are not the same depth one is at two something and the other one at three something I'm sorry I don't have the exact number I can look at it so they're not at the same so the the recommendation was actually for the structure behind and where the rooms were which is the two rooms on the second floor and the one room on the on the first floor because this part is actually maybe 15 feet deep where you have the garden where you have the the how do we call itard the courtyard I'm sorry where you here you have 20 ft or 15 ft of depth M the other one we this why we we talked about I don't know if you remember about bringing the the one of the room closer so you wouldn't have the five fet you would have four feet but I don't know if it's going to change the the issue because really the issue you have the issue with a straight the straightness of the of the louvers correct the lers don't allow you to see the code requirement of the of the structure in the back you're you're complying with the code requirement because the entire structure is set back at 35 ft which the requirement and the code is that 35% of the second floor be set back an additional 5T from the required setb which is 30t so you comply with that but out of those 35 out of those five ft that we need to be 35 ft sorry that we need we actually have a part which is a quard that is at 50 ft so we do have depth we we didn't it can't be seen it can't be seen because of all the lers so maybe we can remove some of the L it just looks like one in the front yeah that's what we were thinking that you could play with the lers around a little bit create not the structure behind the lers but because it appears that you have different depths behind the louvers but it can't be seen so if you play with the louvers as roio is saying you should be able [Music] to yeah can he project something on the screen he want we reduce the quty of the Loopers the permeability the fac that was something that you might approve I mean I know you have to do it you know I I can't it's it's hard to peace meil be like oh yeah that we just see this and yet behind this which is the louvers and the two uh walls that Mark the entrance are different depths of the home but we we don't see that you know so you don't really see any architect Ure of the home you just see the louvers and the wall for the entrance one flat area yeah I I think also too in this I don't know what page this is on but not only do you have the white sort of columns in the center that are but you also have it on the edge so so again it just it that's I think also contributing to the fact that it seems like very imposing that you have these very tall columns and the flat roof it all combined it does does have that effect of of it being very imposing and so I feel like there's a lot of opport there's a lot of things to play with but okay I think we're good okay I mean when I say are we good you have some direction as to where we're thinking and realize that and I apologize that he had to leave but again I think this would have been continued anyway um and then in terms of the waiver on the side I actually don't agree with I don't think that you've complied with the intent of the code however if maybe there's more of a 3D model where I can see the cutouts and the depth and the recesses maybe it will convey a sense of of can you explain that waiver yes so so the code requires that when the when you have a two-story volume on a sidey yard setback that exceeds 60 ft you're required to have an open space equivalent to 1% of the lot area and it must have a depth of 8 ft be regularly shaped and be open to the sky um so in this case they're they're exceeding that Dimension by 9 ft so most of that Dimension that they'd be exceeding would have to be an open courtyard and and so they're not complying with that that strict requirement so they've requested a waiver which is allowed uh to be approved by the drb and that open courtyard um on the SEC on the first livable floor does not qualify them correct yeah it needs to be from from the ground all the way up okay and the the intent of that cat is that you don't have just this long solid expansive wall right next to you like like they have well remember the second Flor saying maybe it's just hard to read mle different deps the second floor has different depths and so does the first floor with all of its openness because it's an under story yeah what doesn't have it is the third floor this with the second livable floor second okay that that's what I'm saying it might it might just be the materials aren't conveying that because from what I'm seeing it doesn't seem to me that intent but again you know that's just that you'll see clear on through the house I mean that's right that's that's a view I think that could be expanded upon so yeah okay so I um I think that you have some direction any other comments or questions for us good okay thank you um I think we should adjin our meeting so the remainder of the agenda is continued to the uh November 5th meeting let me just say the file numbers in case anybody's listening um so that's drb 23- 0960 that's for 704 84th Street known as Deora Bay 2 then drb 23- 0961 that's for 2125 Bay Drive that's for Dora bay3 um and then we have this item which is drb 24 1038 which is 1265 North biscane Point Road those three items will be continued to the November 5th meeting okay thank you okay thank you very much see you next Rio is that the deadline for that um I think we would us um we we usually get uh by the 14th Monday the 14th first thing the 14th okay so that gives us a week to review and and and revise our staff reports all right so Monday the 14th if you wish to make the November meeting not we have the December 13th I believe thank you very much you're welcome sorry December 10th or no 17th a lot of people somebody had to L somebody had to leave like e e for