[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] please take your seats the meeting is about to begin please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 [Music] 1 well good morning everybody um welcome to the May 14th um Miami Beach historic preservation board meeting we are very excited to be holding the first meeting in a renovated space of the bues Perez fabrigas um designed building of Miami the new Miami Beach City Hall from 1977 and um we have the designer here Bill Lane uh who helped to make all this possible so thank you Bill I'm I'm glad you're in the audience this is the very first meeting in this newly designed um newly renovated uh City Hall um meeting space so uh I appreciate I think we all appreciate that especially it's especially poignant that the historic preservation board board is here so um before we get started and I send it and I um pass it over to uh Debbie tet I just wanted to mention that we have um I'll outline the sequence of how we try to run our our our meetings with each um each project so at first the staff will present the item and describe their recommendations then the board will question the staff and uh ask the staff any questions that they have and then the applicant will make a presentation within a limited time board will then question the applicant and the applicant responds to all the board questions all at once and then sits down um then we have board disclosures and open the hearing to the public with the staff uh calling on the public in person and and then the public on zoom and uh we uh then we have an option for the applicant any applicant to rebut the uh the um rebut what they what they hear in the public hear public portion of the hearing and then we have board member comments and and we'll end with a um with a vote yay or nay so with that I hope we have a a wonderful first meeting in this new in this newly designed space and I'll pass it over to you Debbie um thank you Mr chair good morning everyone um before I turn it over to Nick for the legal notices this morning I'd like to give a big thank you to our facilities management department uh Liz and Frank as well as our Communications Department um Melissa and PJ and the entire crew they've been working um around the clock to get this space ready uh we are kind of the guinea pig so just anyone who's watching uh on TV via Zoom or in the audience bear with us if there are any technical glitches um with that I'll turn it over to Nick thank thank you Debbie and good morning Mr chairman and members of the board today's meeting of the historic preservation board will be conducted in a hybrid format with members of the board physically present here in our in our new Chambers at City Hall and applicant staff or and members of the public appearing either virtually or in person appearing either in person or virtually via zoom in order to participate in today's meeting virtually the public may dial 888-475-9305 the Zoom app and enter the webinar ID which again is 817 4834 7488 any individual wishing to speak on an item must click the raise hand icon if you're using the Zoom app or dial Star 9 if you're participating by phone next I'd like to read the city's notice regarding lobbyist registration if you're appearing on behalf of a business a corporation or another person you need to register as a lobbyist with the city clerk's office if you haven't registered yet you should register before speak to the board you don't have to register as a lobbyist if you're speaking only on behalf of yourself and not any other party or if you're testifying as an expert witness providing only scientific technical or other specialized information or testimony in this public meeting or if you're appearing as a representative of a neighborhood association without any compensation or reimbursement for your appearance to express support of or opposition to any item expert Witnesses and representatives of neighborhood associations shall prior to appearing disclose and writing to the city clerk their name address and the principal on whose behalf they're communicating if you're an architect attorney or employee representing an applicant or an objector you must register as a lobbyist these rules apply whether you're appearing in favor of or against an item or encouraging or arguing against its passage defeat modification or continuance and lastly Mr chair I'd like to swear in any members of staff and any members of the public will be testifying today please raise your right hands do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth all truth and nothing but the truth truth thank you okay thank you Nick um the first order of business this morning is the approval of the March 12th minutes um I do have one correction to make uh the attendance which is the first item on the minutes um M Weinstein Burman was marked as absent she was actually present at the March meeting so we're just going to strike that and with that that's the only correction I have um if the board members have any corrections okay motion second second all those in favor any opposed okay great thank you okay we do have one request for continuance this morning that is HPB 23591 this is 1509 and 1515 Washington Avenue and 1500 Collins Avenue um the applicant had notified us I think a couple days ago uh Desiring the continuance to the July 9th meeting um and staff has no objection to this see Mr Lin Is Here Yeah it now ah okay uh we're doing some further Outreach to some stakeholders in the nearby area so we stely request to continue to the July hearing moot to okay before we uh vote on this uh we do have to open this up to the public um so are there any members of the public in the audience or on Zoom that wish to comment on the request for continuance okay see none uh Mr presen you made the motion is there a second all those in favor great thank you see you in July okay there are no more uh requests for continuances so we'll move on to the first uh regular item this is HPB 23590 these are the Citywide digital information kiosks uh an application has been filed requesting a state of appropriateness for the design of digital information kiosks to be installed within the right of ways at various locations um this was last heard by the board at the March 12th meeting and continue to uh today I'll turn it over to Jake for the update thanks Debbie um as Debbie said this application was last heard at the March 12th meeting since that time revised plans have been submitted that include the following modifications the design of the kiosk form has been further refined and incorporates soft wave like curves the black screen edges have been removed and the kiosk housing and Screen edges are now entirely light gray in color architectural style site plans and additional renderings have been provided for each of the eight proposed locations in addition to the standard gray design the kiosks near Ocean Drive are proposed to have teal screen edges and the kiosk on Washington Avenue is proposed to have a pink screen Edge these customized colors were inspired by the pallette of pastels developed by Leonard Horwitz to highlight Deco architecture with regard to the revised design staff sees the new form as referencing the city and the beach with curves on one side representing the ocean and the angular lines on the other side representing the city grit staff is supportive of the re revised design including the colored versions and recommends approval and one final note in the draft final order the date on the plans should read April 12th 2024 in case the board approves the application thank you thank you Jake uh do the board members have any questions for staff okay if not we can turn it over to the applicant all right um good morning Mr chairman board M staff Michael Larin 200 South K Boulevard here representing the applicant we made is Anna bman senior development director Marissa cudell associate development director and Amanda Miller I'm also joined by Bill Lane a bill Lane architecture and my colleague Emily Balter we like to say thank you to the staff you all board members Community Partners and neighborhood group groups have weighed in on this important application I think one reason you all have chewed on this a lot in the past is that while it's nominally one application it's multiple sites and you all are so used to considering one application for one site so we try to make it a site specific this time to ease your consideration of the application but we do believe that the result of this synergistic approach is the creation of a design that is more organic that is rooted in Miami Beach the city commission had a vision for the future and saw a need for this technology we are working very hard to bring it to the residents and visitors our client has reevaluated the design of the kiosk and study each location there's a specific intent behind how each kiosk relates to his context and now I'm going to pass the presentation over to Bill and Anna and they'll walk you through the remainder is there any way that we can pull up the presentation so that um it's on the screens I'm going to thank you Michael and thank you to the board for the opportunity to present to you today we have closely considered your feedback from the March 12th 2024 meeting and the presentation today will take the following um order first we will present our revised kiosk design our architect William Lane will walk you through that we have site specific um renderings and information about each kiosk location that for your consideration and then an update on our continued community outreach to key stakeholders as well as a further detailed and specified comprehensive arts and culture plan and with that I will pass it over to William Lane to walk you through the updated design and his inspiration for it good morning everyone um thank you for uh being here of course um we uh when we first presented we did um provide you with a slightly modified design from the one that you see throughout Miami and uh Coral Gables and um you had ask that we go back and I appreciate that uh I think uh one of the things was you were encouraging us to maybe go a little bit further with the design make something that may actually be more expressive and in keeping with Miami Beach's history uh in terms of their support for not only architecture but art and culture generally you know Miami Beach is a very special place for me I moved here in '92 and one of the things that brought me here of course was the art deco but more than that just the community itself was so supportive uh such a diverse place and uh the other uh the other thing thing too is it it's a place of Tourism and entertainment and it's just a lively place so when when you know when I travel to other C cities I see the kiosk there and they are very generic they're and some ways they're meant to just blend with the cityscape and some would disappear and um you know in those places maybe it works on 6th Avenue New York or other locations but here given the scale the city the the the the whole background the city it really seemed more appropriate that we take it a step further and provide something that unique something that um only Miami Beach has so we came up with a design with uh a curve in it but to me it was more than a curve it was an island had some Persona it reflected water Dune air it was light it was it it's another added layer to what would normally be you know your generic information kiosk so in that way we believe that it would become also kind of iconic for the city and again something very special that is just the nature of Miami Beach generally Art Deco uh so here um these are just some influences that we have you know we have of course the water you know the pink we we offer two uh besides the neutral silver we're offering two other options one is a pink one and one is turquoise both of those colors I think reflect not only Deco but some of the other periods of architecture you see here the Lapidus building at Eden Rock You See The Pink House famous pink house from architectonica you see the pink flamingo which is such a South Floridian iconic image and of course Coral so we um these are the three prototypes on the left we have the more you know generic silver one which would be located in various areas where uh you know the the location maybe a little bit more um Urban and we wanted to keep them somewhat quiet the other two were customized and we imagine them to be on some the more iconic streets uh Ocean Drive Washington Avenue uh areas that are highly pedestrian but also areas that attract tourists particularly you have the great lineup of buildings on Ocean Drive which is all about color um you know the color to of course goes Way Beyond horror wids but it was one of the impetuses that they had with Barbara Catman to draw attention to the Deco area so those were kind of the motivating forces for the the two color options the background the screen that you see um will also reflect the color of the body of the kiosk so in this particular slide you see a blue tone it'll pick up on not only the silver one but or white one but also the turquoise uh this one relates to the pink one so that you have a an overwhelm body you know when you have that that general form the form will read as a whole and it'll just give more continuity to the actual uh shape the sculptural shape uh these are the different locations I'm going let uh uh Anna go through them but you know when we get to the renderings maybe I'll add some points to those thank you B so we are proposing eight kiosk locations today within Historic District boundaries we're going to start with our first location which is on ocean and tenth we did render each location from three angles this was a a request from the board last time so that you get the full context for the kiosk location so the front the back and the spine and Bill if you want to explain a little bit about the paint color selection for ocean um specifically why you think it works at this location that could be very helpful as I go through the renderings well I guess first I love pink um but uh you know at this location not that a direct correlation but we do have the uh round pink lifeguard Tower there and I thought being next to the uh mbt's a visitor center it just seemed like a good introduction to these and a compliment to the city's uh you know ongoing uh you know support of design generally and then you here's a bit more information about the this is a plan view um that was requested by the board as well hopefully this is a bit easier for you to digest um we are 730 ft away from the nearest bus stoper shelter this Kos location is supported by the mdpl and the Ocean Drive Association there's a letter and a blog post from each respectively and we did get pedestrian counts for each of the kiosk locations that's on each slide um to kind of explain the reason that we selected some of these locations we really aim for these to be in pedestrian oriented areas as you can see there are over 14,000 people that are passing this location each day um and you know Ocean Drive speaks for itself it's going to be adjacent to hotels restaurants shopping uh beach access and then of course the art deco Welcome Center which we look forward to working with mdpl on curating the content on this kiosk the second location adjacent to Ocean um is on Ocean and fifth Bill do you have anything to add about about sure um again here we're we're we're adding a an element that will be seen in different locations so even though this one's a pink one you'll always have a marker that you know brings the fact that draws you back to the fact that these are going to be things that you see as you walk through the city so this is just another location another context and then again we do have support from mdpl for this location a very pedestrian um oriented location with over 12,000 people walking by each day really nice wide sidewalk 13 fo9 uh Ines of clear walking path for pedestrians and it's also strategically placed to connect Collins and ocean at the ride shair pickup point the next location is at Washington and sixth Bill if you want to explain the turquoise um another option you know to give it a little bit of variety we wanted to bring in the turquoise um the turquoise again is you know for me a a very wonderful pastel color um Caribbean water those kind of associations and this location is of course supported by the Washington Avenue bid and the Anglers Hotel um we are very limited in terms of where we can be on Washington because there are so many bus shelters as you may remember we have a 250t distancing requirement um in from any existing or future bus shelter and so there were two locations on Washington where there was a possibility to place a kiosk and that was Washington and sixth and then Washington and 10th as well I'm trying to move fast because I know that um we are out of time and this location is supported by the bid as well as wolf Sony and FIU who we're planning to work with we're already working with them in the city of Miami for Content we will do the same here we also love that this is across the street from a public parking lot where people will be parking and walking around the next location is at Lincoln and Washington um bill as if you want to speak to the caller very quickly so I mean again this goes back to a more generic kiosk that you see in many other cities so we're we wanted to keep the form but by using the the lighter silver tone we've we we felt that that Blended more in these more loud noisy visually noisy areas similar to the ones that you see New York or wherever and this location is supported by the Lincoln Road bid over 177,000 people walk by each day um and is kind of at the entry point to the Lincoln Road Mall Collins in 22nd again we um chose the neutral color option for the reasons that bill [Music] stated and this look is supported by the cpna and we did have a meeting with the bass Museum I know that that was discussed extensively last time and as long as we ensure that the kiosk is cohesive with the Perkinson will wayfinding study um we they do not are not in opposition to this location Collins and Lincoln um again the neutral color is is being proposed at this location Mr chairman would you like me to add another couple minutes yeah okay I'm trying to rush through I'm very sorry guys um and this location again over 17,000 people walking by it a day it's supported by the Ritz Carlton South Beach nice wide sidewalks allowing for nearly a six foot walking path and adjacent to all of the amenities on Collins Avenue and then we have Collins and 16th right outside of the Lowe's Hotel we have the neutral option here the three angles this has a support letter from the Lowe's Hotel um and is has significant pedestrian activity 7 fet of um a clear path for a pedestrian and it's nearby to many iconic hotels and restaurants along Collins and then just to to finish up the presentation I think some feedback that we got during the last meeting was to really sort of flush out what our arts and culture content plan looks like and what we're committed to in Miami Beach and so the list that you're seeing on the right hand side of the screen are all of the organizations institutions that we reached out to um we didn't hear back from all of them but if it says partner next to the name that means that we did reach out and they're interested in working with us on curating interesting content for the kiosks in no way is this list comprehensive we would love to add to this list if any if the city has recommendations or um you know if there are recommendations in general when we say that we want to work with these organizations on on content what we mean by that is a couple of things the first is dedicating free space in our ad Loop to promote these organizations this is something we do Nationwide we work with Arts organizations nonprofits and artists to display their content in the ad Loop when the kiosk is in passive mode um so that they are so that there's an engaging mix in the out Loop of not only the commercial content but also Community content so that's one one aspect the second I touched on this last presentation we're working with mdpl on the art deco walking tour um which will be an interactive application to allow for um a user to visit different Art Deco landmarks within the city and get information about each of those landmarks we also have something called a poster application this is something we're working on with wolf Sony and FIU which is an application that lives on the um appti suite and gives information about an initiative an event um things of that nature completely free of cost to that organization and then the other idea we had was having a standalone application with the city's cultural calendar so this is a a calendar that does aggregate all of the information or all of the events that are being put on by organizations such as the bass and the botanical gardens so having a standalone application so that people can know about all of the cultural events um and this would be an addition to our standard events application where we would F we would Source those events from the Lincoln Road bid or the W Washington Avenue bid or cpna um a separate sort of event application dedicated only to cultural events and then the last piece is we we work with local artists in all of our cities we look forward to doing the same in Miami Beach um both recommendations from the city and the organizations that I I listed on the page a couple of pages ago is that are you wrapping okay thank you so uh thank you very much does that complete the presentation so thank you Mr chairman board MERS for your patience we really appreciate it as you all might guess we're eager to bring the Citywide amenity to Miami Beach and during a meeting with Sylvia kuina she's the executive director of the bass Museum she asked us to collaborate with Perkins and will they're the architectural firm that has been retained by the museum in order to establish a cohesive wayfinding signage program in the Collins Park neighborhood so we agree to put the brakes on and work with Perkins and will to make sure that our proposed kiosk design meshes whatever they're going to come up with for the Collins Park neighborhood which is one of the jewels ter of neighborhoods going Miami Beach lastly Mr chairman I need to raise an objection the objector attorney representing outfront media has brought in a model supposedly depicting one of our kiosk neither we nor staff were given any advanced notice of the use of this prop we have no idea if it was appropriately scaled I know that the board frowns upon these sandbags surprise tactics we object to any consideration of this prop by the board members of the violation of our procedural due process rights so thank you Mr chairman I'd like to reserve further time for rebuttal and that's all I have right now great thank you very much I didn't know what that noise was at first I was like I thought it was like yeah misfire so are there any um questions for the uh for the applicant um I'll start with I'll start with you I'll try started either either M but Ray do you want I I did notice in the presentation when you listed you know the part potential Partners you had uh new drama at the Lincoln Theater well the Lincoln Theater happens to be H&M and it would be the county theater would be Miami new drama so you just have to be really careful when you're picking your cultural uh talents and that you have them correct thank you has do you have anything no comment just a question on the the silver or and perhaps this is for bill um on the silver or the white um you know color scheme could you speak to that a little bit just because you know I think in everybody's experience sometimes those colors tend to show more dings more degradation so I just wanted you to kind of you know speak to that to make sure is that not working no it is but if you have to approach the oh um sure so yes um oh yeah this is way helpful is this good yeah okay the samples are very helpful for everybody see so um again we wanted to use the silver as a more neutral element uh we thought that being light versus a very dark dark black which you see often elsewhere um seem to be appropriate in terms of the dings I know that um they do have backups they have it so that if something gets damaged they can come back and uh replace those particular items so they of course they anticipate with any of these things there's going to be at times uh you know uh occasions when things might get damaged the screen might be broken broken so there is going to be a backup on that the um the kiosk actually hasle which uh defines the shape and so you know these things will inevitably happen on these kind of kios so there's nothing really inherent in that that makes it um that much more vulnerable than a kiosk that would be found elsewhere and and do you think of those three color schemes that one is more um perhaps you know impervious to dings or or less impervious or I think they would be the similar I mean all of them have that continuous silver bezel so I don't think the color is going to really impact what that how that outcome might be but uh yeah I think the color will be more saturated and framed so unless it's impacted directly uh the damage is going to be the same on any of them and I do want to remind the board that our contract requires that the kios remain in like new condition throughout the term so everything he said about replacement parts maintenance and operate You Know M maintaining the kiosks that falls on us as the vendor and the the city has a termination right if they're not kept in like new condition throughout the term of the agreement okay great thank you Elizabeth do you have any questions I'm not sure yeah so how long is the agreement it's a term of agreement just I may have missed that before so it's a it's a 10-year agreement with a 10-year renewal term based on our company meeting certain performance criteria that's defined in our contract things like maintenance um you know meeting our financial obligations um ensuring that we're you know promptly repairing making repairs to the kiosks uh aspects of the software are running you know correctly things of that nature and what happens if you lose your interest in keeping those costs there let's say the revenue plan is not there or the maintenance is too expensive it's not worth it for you anymore to keep them so do you have a choice to just step out and how does that work we do not we are contractually obligated to continue with the contract throughout the term of the agreement after the 10 years you know if if Ike was to choose to not renew we would have to restore the sidewalk to pre-existing condition um before we you know removed the the kiosks so I have a few questions just like in general terms um so I noticed that in a couple of locations for instance on um Collins in Lincoln and Collins in 16th the kiosk is not Center on the line of trees and I was wondering why I was pushed one side or the other because in other locations where you Center it seems that the traffic flow would be much easier so you don't have to keep deviating from things so why and then l on Washington is the same situation so why not choose to Center them on what's already existing to make life easier so each each kiosk is kind of evaluated on a case-by casee basis um with cins and 16th was one that you mentioned this one I think is in line with the existing trees um for that exact reason to try to create okay so then maybe you need take a look on the uh s plan CU sometimes the picture looks like Santa the the floor plan does not so just as long as they drive that's fine I noticed that as well so the the site plan actually shows the tree canopy from above and so it'll look like the kiosk is offset from um the tree canopy but actually it's it's in line with the trunks it's just that the tree canopy the way that it's rendered here I think is a little bit confusing because it's showing the tree canopy from an aerial view instead of from The Pedestrian view we did try to balance you know uh creating the the largest amount of unobstructed pedestrian walkway for each kiosk location aligning with existing um installations in the sidewalk for the exact reason that you're stating to avoid pedestrian weaving um but we and then we also have to ensure that the kiosk are set back from the curb the correct amount per the public work standards um and then we also of course review for ADA compliance so we look at slope of the sidewalk at each location um make sure that there's sufficient turnaround area for a wheelchair on both sides of the kiosk so those are all um considerations when when finding the exact location we did work with a civil engineer on these and also ensure that there's no underground utilities that would keep us from placing a kiosk in a in a location okay thank you um one more question uh on your location on Lincoln and Washington we are having later on the Lincoln Road master plan and I was wondering if the location of the proposed location for the kiosk had been checked against the proposed master plan make sure it's not interfering with anything because they have a lot of things proposed for that intersection being such an important one is this the James Corner plan that you're referencing so we um we have been working with the Lincoln Road bid in including presentations to the board um this location and then one location that's going in front of the drb which is at Lincoln and Alton is technically outside of bid boundaries in the scope of that plan when we propose locations within the bid bound foundary we are planning to work directly with that architect and and ensure um that it's cohesive with the plan the bid and the board do feel like these locations are um in line with what they're they're going to see interior to the 16th Street or to the Lincoln Road Mall um but we will work with the architect very closely for any kiosk locations that are going to be proposed I think in a later phase the next application we were planning on revisiting Lincoln Road uh to ensure that those would be very cohesive yeah but I believe I highly recommend sorry that you do check her I don't know I'm not sure who should give should take the first step if you were them okay but I think there need there is a need for coordination especially on your sign because I don't know the one on Alton Road but the one on the corner of Lincoln Washington they have that big uh Lincoln Road ladders and they have a lot of way finding signage that they are proposing to and I understand there is a line but like one foot from there the line it's already inside so I think the coordination will be very important sure absolutely and my last question um what number of pedestrian counts is important for like the minimum one because I notice in some locations you have 3 to 4,000 only and others you have over five for 10,000 so it seems to me that there is a big dis um range between your targets and I was wondering how that was defined I think over 10,000 feels like a very significant number we actually received from the Lincoln Road bid The Pedestrian counts on the the mall because we felt like that was a very good indication of you know in Miami Beach specifically what dense pedestrian activity would look like and many of our locations um are significantly over the The Pedestrian counts that we received from the bid the locations that are a bit lower I think are the two on Washington and the locations on Washington it was very important to the Washington na avue bid that they have this amenity we were very limited in where we could place them because there's so many bus stops and shelters on that street and so we were trying to not let you know perfect get in the way of good when it came to those locations they are definitely um more Landmark driven versus pedestrian count driven and so but but those were that was where we were where it was technically feasible to put them on Washington the remainder of the locations are a little bit more in line with each other like you mentioned you know 10,000 and above some almost nearly 20,000 um Washington Avenue is definitely the outlier there thank you Lindsay I just one question you're talking about The Pedestrian counts and it kep me thinking do you guys have any numbers or data to show um increase in pedestrian account when these um kiosks are installed is that something that you guys have seen a trend that you've seen um you know um an upwards Trend in pedestrian passage I guess if you will um when these signs were installed I'm just curious yeah I mean Nationwide it's it's different right so when we installed some kiosks preco in downtown and then we go back and you know see data that shows postco numbers The Pedestrian counts oftentimes go down but I think that in destinations like in Miami actually fared very well during covid and things uh remained very consistent um I think it's very situational but in in I think the biggest fluctuation we would see in a place like Miami Beach would be uh time of year fluctuations right so during bosil um we we actually made ensured that The Pedestrian counts that we had taken um were during just kind of like a standard weekend it wasn't during spring break it wasn't during um um you know our puzzle or F1 it was it was just kind of on a a routine uh Saturday in Miami Beach um and so we tried to we tried to do that so that the information and data was really uh representative of what you can actually see but I'm not sure over time if they if it would increase or decrease but here I think it will be seasonal uh for sure is that it all right um thank you I I I was also wondering about the um about how you took the counts The Pedestrian counts like what the what the method was yes we worked with a third party called NDS and how did they actually so 800 a.m. to midnight was the time frame of collection and it was a manual collection process of using a a clicker just clicking as people walked by and um what's the minimum for your company that you use the minimum count pedestrian in account there really actually is not a minimum our company is a little bit different than I think a typical Media Company media companies generally you know they they sell in a way that's called cost per thousand views and it's based only on counts um we really you know because our locations we think of them as Landmark locations pedestrian counts is just one factor right like if it's on Ocean Drive um the fact that it's this iconic location is another tactic that we use and so there's not a minimum or a hard rule that we follow it's really uh situational to that asset okay um and I was just going to go back to the Washington and Lincoln example and I just wanted to confirm that the that the kiosk is on the east side of Washington at Lincoln is that correct or is that am I incorrect about that the Lincoln and Washington location it is Merc do you know if it's on it's on the east side correct okay so it's not in the what's the current pedestrian correct portion of all right um all right I don't have any any further questions um but if anybody else does please Ray well just when you're talking about the ks there's a certain distance that you had to be away from the bus stops and I don't see the particular one that you have on Lincoln and Washington possibly meets that criteria since there's bus stops on every single Corner that is a great question so Lincoln Road is the only street that was carved out from that restriction in the contract that the city has with the bus uh shelter operator and so we Lincoln Road is the one area where we do not have to comply with the bus shelter um distancing requirement I should have called that out earlier thank you great point no really um so are are there any other questions that have Arisen um I was only going to say one other thing this is kind of it it's probably just me and the way I look at the world but I I immediately saw a face in this um profile nobody saw that okay all right then I will let it it's just for the record and uh we'll see if anybody else ever ever sees that if not then it's just my weird way of looking at the world so um it was there uh would um another layer okay okay so I think we move to um if we're finished with we move to disclosures if we're finished with the uh questions any disclosures and since this item has been before you um in in the past I would just ask that the board disclose any new expart communication since the last meeting I had a meeting with the applicant and the director of the bass Museum to discuss the location at 22nd and Collins Avenue okay if there's no more disclosures we can open up the public comment portion of the hearing um I see anyone in Chambers please come forward I we do have a couple on Zoom as well hello um good morning my name is cladia jaged and I represent the Lincoln Road bid and I'm here to say that we are in full support of the digital kiosk and we look forward to replacing all of our non-digital kiosk on the road thank you okay good morning my name is Jack fin class I'm a mid Beach resident and former resident of the board and uh we I today I represent the Miami Design preservation league and we're fully in support of this project we think it's very exciting and we love the color scheme and the design and the shape and all the work that's going on into making this successful project thank you thank you um on Zoom we have several uh speakers uh the first caller is Troy Wright good morning Troy hi Troy do you swear that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth uh good morning I hope everyone's well this is Troy right sure I do s yes I do okay thank you um this is Troy wght executive director of the Washington Avenue business improvement district um you know since being introduced to the project in 2021 uh the Washington Avenue business improvement district you know we've been overwhelmingly supportive of the I project in Miami Beach and on Washington Avenue uh the bid has eagerly anticipated half technology along Washington Avenue and we know that it will greatly benefit the visitors and resident of the area by offering simplified wayf finding directories of our local businesses um art and culture events customized content for the bid um and more so you know I just believe that the kios provides real time information eliminating the need for static signage and I'll tell you this you know often I hear and see people that are looking for the beach on Washington Avenue and have no Direction so I think in so ways this will enhance um the Avenue the experience for tourist on the Washington Avenue so you know the two proposed kiosk locations on Washington Avenue at 6 and 10 um are at the key intersections and are both supported uh by the adjacent Property Owners Like the Wolf Sony and and the Anglers as previously mentioned um so you know we're in full support we're excited about it we love the design and um yes let's try to move forward I think it perfectly embodies Miami Beach and the personality of Washington Avenue thank you okay thank you Troy our next speaker is Sarah do deos Rees hi Sarah do you swear that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you you have two minutes can you hear me yes hello yeah okay hi Sarah that s SAR Sunset Harbor neighborhood association I was um I was glad that you know we were not included because that was something that we didn't want in our neighborhood we don't something that we don't need and and and what the only thing I don't understand is why would somebody stand in front of a Kos when we have all the information on on smartphones and and and and and all the and all the social media information that the city provides that's the only thing I really don't understand why we need a kiosk and and also and also people who are afraid of catching any type of you know viruses they will not be touching the screen so I don't know how much how much uh food traffic you would have there okay thank you thank you um our next speaker is Celia Gru hi Celia do you swear that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth Celia if you could unmute yourself okay Celia if you if you would like to speak you need to unmute yourself there you go hi Celia do you SAR you hear me yes we can hear you yes I do I do swear there is a terrible Echo so I will be we can hear you as brief as okay as brief as possible okay I J to these [Music] machines um I find them totally incap in incompatible with the city's historic character oh it's just impossible to talk with this Echo um basically these machines uh you have to know are illegal under Florida law Section 3 p can't can't even talk with these with this Echo is just impossible and I'm done this is awful it's so it's so upsetting you once we have a chance to talk there's there's an echo and we can't even express ourselves okay thank you CIA um there are times where where people in the public may have more than one audio device going on and that can sometimes cause an echo in my experience um but we will definitely look into that on our end uh our next speaker is Mitch novic hi Mitch do you swear that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth all truth and nothing about the truth of course can everybody hear me without an echo yes okay Mitch noic 36 year resident business owner I as a served on the HPB for a total of six years five years as chairman a generation ago I took out my earpiece because I am hearing a double Echo uh want to say the chambers look fantastic and I tuned in late so not to be redundant if it was mentioned uh I want to commend the architect and the design team for doing an excellent job I look forward to appearing in person tomorrow uh but regarding this I I have to agree with the sentiment of the last two callers uh I don't see why we need these but if we have to have them I uh would would then urge you to approve this this design I think the architect has done a uh a good job if we have to have these things and that's it and I hope uh you get these bugs fixed because it's kind of annoying hearing the public speak double thank you okay thank you Mitch um Mr chair I see no one oh we have one more speaker good morning um Mr chair with with your permission may I have one extra minute for a total of three minutes sure thank you sir uh good morning Mike yente LSN law 3800 Northeast First Avenue representing out front Mr chair and board members your decision today comes down to one simple question is this thing standing next to me compatible is it compatible with our City's historic district districts when you consider design Dimensions size scale massing material Aesthetics function impact on pedestrians is this compatible with the city's historic districts because that is the standard under Section 11 18564 of the city code which says that a decision on a certificate of appropriateness shall be based on evaluation of the compatibility of the proposed structure with the surrounding properties and surrounding Community the code actually provides specific criteria that must be considered when making this compatibility determination once again design Dimensions size scale massing material Aesthetics function impact on pedestrians sensitivity to the surrounding areas the purpose for which the historic distri District was created if the board believes that the proposed machine is out of context or out of scale or otherwise incompatible with the city's historic districts then the board must deny the application in the instant case there's no competent substantial evidence to suggest that this machine of this size is Mr Lin's comments earlier I would say a couple of things number one we have a tape measure on the way the applicant the board uh is free to measure and make any objection uh they want number two we are happy to submit this actual mockup into the record as evidence two more quick points number one uh Mr novic mentioned earlier if we the district that maches are by the County Attorney office like I have AEF this more 12 so there is has rejected his is available for your questions are there any questions from the board yes I please please go for it and I'm arog with the city City Beach uh Capital Improvement Pro uh division I'll go ahead and turn it over to Isabelle was debie did a great introduction so it's just she's going to explain to you about the modifications great thank you Ariel thank you Debbie and hi board members um I'm going to go a little bit fast because you are familiar with this and pause on the changes but of course do interrupt me if you have any questions or want more detail um going through this again uh we've been working on the master plan since 2016 concentrating now on localized improvements between Washington and lenux and we're going to start going through the 400 block uh where we had a number of comments uh regarding revisiting the paving transition between new Paving and existing Paving to remain sitting and the Gateway sign of course here we see um existing conditions of the block um it was renovated in 1997 to a design that is no longer of historical significance this was the original Morris lapidos sign with a circular Motif um and these are the changes so looking first at the left hand side of the image this was the paving transition we had proposed when we came back to you in February which was a kind of a hard line between new proposed Paving in the Miami Beach uh red colar with the existing seafoam green Paving the sentiment was that it felt very harsh and what we're proposing now is more of a diagonal uh transition that Echoes the geometry of the existing planter to remain the exact location of that Paving is based on basically mapping out all of the many different patchworks of Paving that you have right now on that block in pink are all of different uh transitions of Paving of different colors and in yellow is basically what we're proposing to bring the renovation up to from Washington to the West which gives you a very clean remaining amount of Paving and a very clean new type of Paving and we think this really um helps enliven the street while also echoing some of the existing geometries to remain here you see the demolition plan again the new Paving will be replaced about half of that block uh to the East and then the proposed uh new design with that uh Paving line echoing the planter geometry and then moving to the right hand side of the image or the East the Palm Plaza that we were proposing here we see in color um as a reminder if we move from uh right to left we have Washington Avenue then a series of piano keys that will be built uh with pre-cast concrete paper black and white echoing the same papers that were approved for Drexel Avenue so this kind of um Echo the historic elements but clearly built of a different material given this is not of historic um character anymore the center of the plaza will have a GD of uh Florida native royal palm trees and then behind it where you see the number two or extending the existing planter a little bit just to create more Greenery and bookend uh the new block looking at the perspectives the idea here was to create a space that is welcoming on the day-to- DAT but um head seating but it also remains flexible for potential installations R pieces events the bid is planning and to that end we had originally proposed movable seating to keep that flexibility the comments we received is that um there were concerns about just maintenance and operations of these elements so what we're proposing now as deie articulated is to bring some of the concrete uh seats that were proposing for the rest of the road that would be installed in planters in this particular case the um palm trees along the edge of the plaza will be contained within circular uh uh concrete planters that Echo the original circular motifs of morit lapidos and if you see highlighted in pink the idea is that these have a small bench um that's can delivered over these uh this is a bench that fits two people has an armr in between more like a loft seed um but they're facing each other so that you can have people um be social in these elements they're also only oriented along the edges of the plaza so the center can remain flexible for events and art installations we see a rendering of that here again those benches facing each other um activating the edges of the plaza and but still keeping the center flexible for installations whether they're overhead our installations or more ground installations the second change or third change um that we're proposing here is the linoln road Marquee sign we received a number of comments having to do with uh keeping the typography a little bit more closely related to the proposed wave finding signage and also reconsidering the vertical elements that Echo the piano keys but we're really not reading that immediate uh for most um so here's the proposed uh revision we have made the typography a little bit chunkier which I actually think helps with the visibility of the sign from further away remove the vertical elements and also lifted the plint that holds it so it's situated almost at the top of the Ballers lining Washington Avenue when you're facing from the other side of the street so as you're approaching Lincoln Road from Collins Avenue the sign is a lot more present uh which was the original idea here we see a comparison of the scale of the previously proposed sign on the top and the new proposed sign at the bottom and again a comparison of the two the idea is that this welcomes you into Lincoln Road um it has sufficient space in front of it for people to take photos uh take selfies and not um stand on the roadway which was also a concern and at night the sign would be illuminated with an LED strip at the bottom the LED strip will be programmable so on the day today it can be white but if there's a particular event say um Halloween or Valentine's Day the bid can choose or the city can choose to illuminate it to celebrate that particular festivity uh that concludes the changes to Washington Avenue shall I continue to ukp okay so uclid oval we had uh two primary comments one is to revisit the size of the oval to ensure that it remains flexible for events and second to look at alternative paving materials um looking at the context again uh the uclid oval is located uh between the 700 and 600 blocks um and we're proposing to renovate the entire area in red existing conditions uh particular of note is that the design has always intended to be oriented to the east so it has a aever relationship to the Morris lapos historic band show these are the um original conditions it used to be a planter and we of course acknowledge that this is the center of Lincoln Road that hosts a quite quite a large variety of events some of which activate the Bandshell some of which take place on the oval itself along with the holiday displays so the original proposal intended again to create an aetric oval keeping the exact same footprint as you have today but orienting um a ser of sitting steps towards the Bandshell so it can be a better place for Activation while having a continuous seat wall along the edges in this case at actual sitting height the oval right now is a little bit too low for those uh with disabilities and that the space would be activated at night again with palm tree up lighting really highlighting the center of the road this was the original design um and I'm just going to flip through the scale comparison on the top we have the oval as we have it today which is a total of 67 ft in length and the original design was reducing it to a little bit more than half to uh 38 ft in length uh for comparison original design or existing conditions have um 1320 Square ft of flexible space and the uh proposal before had 952 Square ft what we are proposing is to modify the geometry to enlarge that Center area that flexible area to a total of 4 48 ft the uh width remains exactly the same as you have today this increases your flexible space to 1, 181 Square ft while still keeping sufficient space for a planter along the west because it's also our intent to include a very large specimen tree that will provide shade over the seating area so we do want to make sure we're balancing both flexibility with also shade uh looking at it in detail um we see here again the seat wall around it remain s uh a a central planter under number seven the sitting steps however to be able to accommodate this have been reduced from being three steps to only two however we have also been able to incorporate a back to the bench along the western side which I think also helps a lot make the space a lot more comfortable and uh Universal uh for everyone here are the comparisons on the top the previous design on the bottom the new design you see these features the large Central space the two sitting steps instead of one and the back um along the western side uh in terms of events we have diagram a number of events of course there's multiplicity of ways in which you can organize this but just to again show the flexibility of the design on the top left we see the idea of having a what we would call a theater in the round type of performance in um uh green we highlighting where the performer might be in a black circle would be people sitting on the permanent seats on those sitting steps for that seat wall that accommodates a total of 74 people and then in pink would be additional shares that would be added to the space which we know the bid does today uh comfortably this can fit up to 64 shares even more if you want it to make them tighter uh looking at the bottom left in the event that um the cultural performance will occur on the Bandshell again you have sufficient space up to 128 people sitting on movable shares and up to 30 two people sitting on the permanent sitting steps again showing multiplicity of uses and lastly the holiday display showing that we can uh carefully fit the tree the manura the dral and the nativity scene and still have proper space for circulation and sitting I'm going to go super fast this is the end of the presentation M uh you ask us to revisit the materials um so again the original proposal included the 6x6 ceramic tile this is a baked tile it has um coefficient of friction to match any side walk and again the idea with this is that it afforded us to have very VI vibrant colors that added a little bit more interest to the center of Lincoln Road we do look at other Alternatives uh starting with pre-cast concrete which is a very common material and the challenge with preast conrete is that we cannot get good colors you can see on the photos here they're very muted and they kind of eliminate that exciting feature that we had here we've looked everywhere that's why it took us two months to come here and this is the best that we could find I'll pass it is around um so as an alternative if we really do like concrete um we could advise uh do a more grayscale pattern um where we can get better colors but again loses some of the vibrancy of the original design the last idea was to look at a smaller tile this is aric tile um this is an installation in little Habana exterior rated um a lot of grip very byant colors um and again with these they offer um unglazed SI that has historic colors that Echo some of the art EO District colors and this is what that original pattern would look like if we were to go with this color palette or another exploration if we've just kept it to the yellows and pinks that we have immediately adjacent uh to the oval itself and the comparison of options our personal opinion is that pre-cast concrete doesn't really give us um the kind of um beautiful design that we were looking at um we agree with uh deie and planning that the original design um the one on the left is more vibrant but again if there continue to be maintenance concerns this is definitely a more maintenance friendly material um with the two options on the right hand side and I'm going to pass this around uh how much more time do you need she's almost done she needs about the way finding size one more minute one more minute so way finding um there was a a request to clarify the intent again we see as mentioned on the previous uh presentation a lot of tourists looking for way finding along Lincoln Road we originally were um proposing to the wordss bisc bay and Miami Beach to demarcate the east and west which we understand cause confusion so our uh revised proposal is to call it the bay or the beach and then we also have other signs uh facing north south these are intended to demarcate destinations again to orient uh visitors uh to Miami Beach not every street would have a destination so here we have included the message schedule for example around Pennsylvania Avenue we could direct people to Espanola away or convention center but for example at Leno we don't have a particular destination to call out these will be designed however in a way where you can add these um over time should destinations emerge that the city wants to highlight and that concludes the presentation great thank you thank you very much um so are there questions questions for the from the board of the applicant you have a question um on the so I'm actually Focus now on the uclid oval the which by the way that this is an incredible Improvement it's fantastic what you guys have and the way that you've redesigned this I think it's really really amazing um I'm curious on where you have this seating that shows because you have like different um kind of quantity of seating and one is where the performer is underneath the Bandshell um do you find that that will feel connected enough or even with that that space there or how does that is there a different grade there or like do is the stage going to be higher or how does that work so we're not designing a stage but should a performance want to incorporate a stage they absolutely can a temporary stage the idea again with the sitting steps is that they do offer that vantage point so we are a little bit farther away um from the Bandshell but the sitting on the ground will have proper visibility and then the idea with the sitting steps is that you have that extra layer okay ray please um I have a couple of concerns number one when you said the U the signage at the end of the street is almost above or the um ballards why aren't you having it above the ballards why would you still have the you know the sign somewhat down behind the Ballard there's no reason not to raise it so it's fully exposed above the Ballard it's it's a perspectival issue the closer you get the closer the sign on the Ballers compress um but sure we we can make it completely above it if um because if you're looking at people going down the street you know like and looking you want them to be able to really read the sign and not have it encumbered that's just my thought and as far as uclid Circle goes currently kids playing on that Circle all the time so you're changing the use of the circle and um I don't know who's the one that determined that we should change the use of the circle um and where are kids now going to play you have no place on on Lincoln Road for families to come and let their kids just play on the fake grass or whatever we're going to do and that's a concern of mine can I address that concern okay so what back when we started the master plan in 2016 there was a strong interest to have the oval be a flexible space that could hold a variety of different events both families and childrens as we see today as well as cultural events because that was the original intent with this space when Morris lapis designed it part of the master plan also identified the area south of the oval um which is close to Transportation today as a place that can be designated for children's playground and we did in fact um design several options the current budget of the improvements um does not cover that but that's not to say that that wouldn't come together in the future and the idea again is that by this being the center of this commercial space we wanted to keep it as flexible as possible families can still play the um surrounding seat wall actually contains kids a little bit better and parents can sit more comfortably and wash their kids um but it also can lend itself for other cultural activities we think having one use maybe a missed opportunity in what is now a very diverse um you know Street in terms of cultural events um uh commercial events Etc but it's like playing in the street I mean it's they're playing on concrete or tile or whatever you know it's I I don't I don't see kids utilizing that space to do the things that they're currently doing on the circle Haso do you have any questions thank you I think the planet overall design is fantastic but I have a couple of questions one of and a concern and one is a maintenance issue that I raised with you last time about the uh design of the benches which I think are terrific they look great however you know the old design barely uh concrete reinforced concrete structure and it seems to have lasted and I was wondering if you've had any ideas about that and what your if you have if you share the same concerns that I do about long-term maintenance steel exposed Steel in our environment that's number one um number two on page uh 31 you show it appears to be a security guard on a bicycle which is uh not allowed actually right you're not allowed permitted to ride your bike have you given thought to the idea of providing a dedicated um path for scooters or bicycles on the road have you had any uh opposition or support for it or any thought given to that um let me address your first question uh the benches yes the idea is that the seat itself is uh pre-cast concrete we're currently working with manufacturers to optimize the design um to ensure that it's very durable the um the structure that holds it is what you had concerns with which was a painted steel and again we're currently in the process of working with manufacturers to see what is the best approach for that material um so those conversations are ongoing okay regarding the second issue as far as the uhic not allow motorized vehicles are not allowed along linoln renue so it has it has has not been contemplated or anything like that whatsoever no the original master plan for Lincoln Road that we developed in 2016 uh did propose the idea of incorporating bike Lanes on Lincoln Lane North and Lincoln Lane South so you would have still that east west connectivity um I'm not sure where the city is at with those plans um since we haven't really been retained to continue that um but that was part of the original um proposal I'm coming a little late to the game I would have liked to see it originally uh because it is a a lengthy stretch and you know uh moving people off the uh side streets onto Lincoln Road I think would have been a great experience riding through Lincoln Road on a scooter or a bicycle electric too dangerous too dangerous um the last item that I want to ask you about is um the tile that you've selected have you tested it when it's wet you have you talked about the coefficient of friction it seems to me like the Innovative Mosaic would be the best suited for it but tell me if I'm right or wrong um again I think it comes down to a balance between Aesthetics maintenance and practicality um all of these Styles meet and exceed the coefficient of friction of side walks under wet conditions so for that we don't need to be worried I think the main concern and is something that we've been working uh with uh the city is maintenance and replacement uh with the smaller tile uh with all of them we would advise buying atct stock so the city would have um a bunch of uh pieces in case they were to break they can replace them uh quite easily the smaller tile um is less susceptible to um somebody dropping something super heavy and cracking um and it's easier to store if you need it at a stock it's the same amount of colors for all of the tiles um but these are more smaller and easier to handle and replace um that said um from an urban perspective it does feel a little bit more delicate than the larger one which scale-wise fits better with the with the context okay thank you uh thank you Elizabeth did you have a question yes um just one quick one uh regarding the drainage of the oval I mean seem a large part of the perimeter is enclosed um we don't want to create a swimming pool there we are not creating a swimming pool there we are very uh conscientious of drain is so the way this is going to work is we're going to have slot drains on either side of the oval so the center of the oval is going to be Crown at a high point and that's going to direct water to the bottom of the the two seat walls where drains will will be located to collect that water in addition if we look at the plan um we do also have uh flush to grade area where you see the uh label uh 33 on page 37 all of that is flush with um the piano keys and all of that water will also Crown onto the existing uh trange drains on on either side okay so drainage is well accounted for without a very ugly area drain in the middle of it which is our biggest nightmare okay um can I go on since I'm since I got the mic okay uh so regarding the height of the Lincoln Road sign I understand Ray's um comment and concern but I think it's already above six feet tall uh and I think it's already tall enough it's already tall most of most of people not regular people at least certainly taller than I am and you don't want to make it too Monumental over overwhelming so I felt like the height looks fine but I did I thought the previous font you had there was much more elegant than now the eye with the SFS it takes so much space and look to a little bit too chunky from my personal taste and I know that we just talking personal taste right now but I'm just sharing mine um and then my regarding the materials of the oval I think the larger one it does fit in scale better with the size of the oval but I'm always concerned with maintenance as you know our side docks look pretty bad with that uh the red carpet that's always patched and never look the same so that's my concern as those break they get loose and they need to be replaced what's going to happen to the pattern and the color selection that we have that to look very beautiful in the first couple of years and then as we go down I'm not sure if they fade away if cleaning materials will um uh damage the colar and how does it how it will look like in the long run given that maintenance is not a lot of times not the priority and the funds for the manance sometimes are lacking I just want to congratulate I do appreciate you accommodating our comments from last time and you did improve the design a lot thank you just one other question I just as I'm looking at the uclid oval I to me it I would actually see this as it almost looks like a skateboard park in a way like and I so I was just thinking a little bit about what Ry was saying that it wouldn't be a place where kids would play and I know I think we're not allowed to bring skateboard skateboards on Lincoln Road but so was that anything that was contemplated and was at all that because I you know when you travel to other cities you go to places like Barcelona when you have these kinds of steps kids always want to kind of play off of them so I'm just curious if if that use was contemplated so SK that was uh something requested from the community at large for Lincoln Road during the master plan again we're looking at a Commercial Street where we're trying to balance a flexibility of uses um it is playful um so I do see kids running up and down the steps I mean that happens all the time um so there is that aspect to it but overall the idea is that it really provides many different opportunities to sit and whether you're watching performance or whether you're people watching which is also something that happens quite a lot on Lincoln Road it gives you various Vantage points from a skateboarding perspective we will have skate deterrence uh to prevent any damage right I just want to uh tag on to um what was said regarding the the tile and and the maintenance um what are you using for like grout I mean the grout on tile usually gets all moldy and milk do if anybody's ever really taken a look at the tile that's on the bridges on 41st Street they look terrible there's mold there's mildew there's missing tiles you know and I perceive no matter what you do here you're going to run into the same maintenance issues and the same lack of uh of consistency from the city to maintain it um and and that is a real concern of mine I mean I can't speak to the installation details of the project you're mentioning we will be using grout that is rated for exterior public spaces with the amount of food traffic that we see on Lincoln Road we saw the previous presentation 177,000 people a day we are used to designing for that in addition to that all of the tile will have a sealer on top the sealer prevents oil um or stains from penetrating into the grout or the tile which is something we also do on all of our public spaces how often you have to that the sealer usually um once every five years or so is pretty um long lasting and I hope you prepare a very good maintenance manual to share with C staff to keep after tick a to maintain um I'll just add a question about the about the oval it you show it as a you show the seating as continuous U moving around will there be any anything that would prevent somebody from skateboarding along it or any like anything that would prevent somebody from say napping there or whatever or I mean is this exactly what we're going to see in the end what you show there or will it actually have like separators that would separate people from um being able to you know kind of relax on it like that woman in white is sure so right now what we are proposing are stainless steel skateboard deterrant which are um small bars that would come along the edges um prevent any skateboarding on any damage uh we are not proposing separators from the perspective that that really limits the usage of this for people to sit fa in different directions and um be able to you know activate the space in different ways um our experience is that this is one of the most active areas of Lincoln Road and between the lighting and the amount of circulation we have the restaurants as they open pretty late um this is one of the areas that's less prone to um misuse so where would those steel um skateboard uh bumpers go on the they they would go on all of the exposed edges so in this particular image they would go on the exterior Edge as well as the interior um on the benches and sitting areas um they will go basically on the nose of the seat so they be wear that little kid in the blue shirt like he would be potentially right where like it would be just on the edge that edge just on the edge he's like that long and that high stainless steel imagine like a bracket that gets um installed along the edge and it goes horizontally or vertically it's both horizontal and vertical um I can I can submit a sample of that if if so this will all have a stainless steel it's not it's every it's every 3T I should clarify it's a it's a little tab that's added every 3 feet um which is what's been proven to prevent um skateboarding and just on the outside or on the outside and inside um just where you have access to the edge so in this particular image it would go on the outside and the inside um when you have the sitting steps or the bench that would only happen on the outside I'm sorry on the bench and you mean in the back where where uh you're showing the old version up there right yeah let me just show you the section this might be a little bit easier to okay so if we look at the bottom left where you see the number um 1 foot6 so on that nose of that bench we would have that Tab and then again um the sitting steps uh to the right of the tree would have that tab as well and then the seat wall the low seat wall that would have it on both sides and again we're happy to provide the drawings that's already included in our construction drawings if I may it's an L-shaped element right correct and now shape that just it's a b it goes like like would install it like this right right no it's just they're often installed it's not an unusual thing it's just usually I mean it would help to to see it because I think if we go out and you know once it's finished and it's not this beautiful Sleek continuous concrete curve because it has these um these preventors built in it's probably good to see uh kind of what you're using we can provide samples and photos of the same um element installed on other projects with very similar geometry on the seaw wall on the beachwalk there's walls along the side and you have a curve curved top and it's rounded on the edges and there's no clamps on there for skateboarders because they can't why wouldn't you do something like that around the outside of the oval then you wouldn't have to have these ugly little clamps all the way around and that's what they really are is ugly little clamps I I I would have to see what you're referring to um just walk down Beach Walk Like 20th Street 21st Street and you'll see it's it's like a imitation Coral it's has a little Crown to it it's rounded on the edges so that you there's no Square corner for them to be able to get get on it with the skateboard and stay on it um and it just makes it look much better than to have all these little Clips all over we we can look at that I do want to again um highlight that we want these to be functional and people to be able to sit so we have to balance those two I'm happy to provide photos what we've done on other projects is very discrete functional but very discrete um so hopefully that addresses the questions you said between beachwalk between where where sorry what uh the the beachwalk uh dire or or the streets and beachwalk you said actual Beach Walk it's from where to where the location well I mean anywhere from up to 21st Street up to 21st anywhere from like 18th to 21st that area definitely has the rounded the rounded uh tops when people and people sit on it all the time there you in your experiences about what has been with a design like this what what has been kind of the most um you know pressing challenges let's say is it is it just the two that we've mentioned in terms of uh people sleeping there or skateboarding or is there something that we're forgetting I mean those are just those two things those sort of challenges but it really is a contextual challenge right we don't see a lot of people skateboarding on Lincoln Road we do want to prevent that from happening we don't want this to be an invitation and the main challenge with skateboarding is that they damage um they they stain the skateboards stain the the white concrete um but again the white concrete will also have a sealer that prevents any stains or Oils from being absorbed um so that should also help with it and people lying down you know it's it's a it's a consideration it's a social issue everywhere um I would say also we do have quite a a lot of um you know Arch uh sections in plan so there's only a few moments where perhaps it becomes uh most inviting um the rest are quite uncomfortable to be honest and they would be coming out of ours in other words they're going to be coming to use that area for skateboarding when it's basically not heavily trafficked like at 2 o'clock in the morning 7 o'clock in the morning that's when they're going to be out there skateboarding um I was just going to ask one other question about the um the decision to raise the Lincoln Road sign from 1 fo 6 in to 24 inches to two feet um you know one six it was originally a bench height so I was imagining people kind of sitting there and having their picture taken while they were or were basically using it like that is there um how do you and you you do kind of show in your in your section like um two people one person kind of taking a picture of the other person but um like with families and kids and things like do you have a do you have a sense of how that sign will be used um in terms of you know like the I Love New York signs and the I love Amsterdam signs and the ones you find in cities all over the world um uh in terms of which are mostly located I think more at Ground height um so they're not either benches or possible benches 24 in is a little high for for a bench but um did do you have any thoughts about how that how like how that platform will be used because it's essentially another piece of Street Furniture it could also be something that attracts you know skateboarders and everybody um is that also going to have this kind of U the bullnose um you know bumpers on it okay so to address um your questions the the sign is intended to be something that highlights the approach to income Row from far away we did on the past presentation not just here but with the bid uh receed a lot of comments to ensure that it was very visible um that is what drove making it a little bit higher not so high that it does become a visual impediment to see through because we want to make sure everything continues um being trans transparent from a safety perspective um so that felt like the right height that also dis encourages people from climbing on it to that extent as well um this is a very faint detail here but we have made it narrower so that the letters are sitting directly on the black Bas as opposed to before where the black Bas had a little bit of a lip where you could sit um and you can see that on page uh 23 and again that was um in response to concerns over people climbing on the sign sitting on the sign or skateboarding so right now the letters are there's basically two inches between the edge of the letter and the black plin uh from that point of view great thank you I I that's a great detail I appreciate all the thought you've put into this really it's amazing thank you so with that um I think we finished questions do we open it up to um what's our next before we do that I would ask the board disclosure if you have any disclosures to make and again this is any new expart communication since the last time this this application was discussed okay see none we can open up to public comment uh anyone in the audience please come forward anyone on Zoom please raise your hand okay on Zoom we have Mitch novic hi Mitch Mitch are you there okay I see he has unmuted himself yeah yeah I I didn't hear you okay we can hear you you hear me yes we can you don't hear okay Mitch novic again uh while I still lament the loss and demolition of the original circular Lapidus structure in the 90s I think you guys have an opportunity to replace what had been what that was replaced with which is a uh aluminum aluminum Wing type of structure whose Form and Function still remain unknown and use purposeless I think this is an opportunity I hope you consider it also regarding the uclid O oval last year I met a woman who claims her children got a nasty case of Ring Worm rash while playing on that Turf and that's it thank you okay thank you um Mr chair I see no other members wishing to comment all right then um I guess uh you guys are didn't have any responses to those uh public disclosure public comments so board member comment we'll close the we'll close the um applicant a time and anybody want to start with um their Impressions or comments about this Lindsay since you're avoiding eye contract any any okay Elizabeth okay uh anybody G raise gone so we don't have our anchor any any comment this is just we're talking to one another about our impressions of this and whether we're thinking it's something that we'd like to support or whether we like each other's opinions about things or whatever I mean go for you I think that um you know this the design team is is um is really outstanding I'm really really grateful that you guys um are here and that you understand the context and that you speak to the community and that that engagement is is very visible it's apparent that that's what you do that you know this community very well so I appreciate that um and you being so responsive uh I think to me the most interesting Improvement here is the uclid oval um I think that it it's incredible how it increases the flexible Gathering space I think that that area we're going to see is used in different ways that we won't we don't really quite know you know all of the the various uses but I think that that could be a good thing for convening community so I'm quite excited about that um and let's see I Look To be honest with you and I'm speaking to to my fellow board members now I'm having a real hard time on the materiality for the pavers I think we all have been in situations where we have seen you know what we think the degradation of ceramic pavers around the world I don't mean to put into question I know that you guys are using the best products and we'll have the most amazing contracts but I am uh amazing excuse me maintenance um guidelines for our city uh but I am worried so I'm I'm having trouble so perhaps one of my board members can help me think about this because I I don't know what I think about this okay I I'll just jump in about that because I think that the it's interesting you only showed the hexagonal panel tile um uh pattern and even when you use the small square um the small square uh pavers you didn't change the pattern which would definitely change with the with the different pavers so we haven't really seen the the porcelain the tiny porcelain pavers I'm and I'm inclined I like the hexagonal I like the hexagonal pavers I I agree with the staff that the the vibrancy of the colors are um are something especially in the in the ceramic or something that could really like make it more colorful and playful for kids and just would be a a more Dynamic environment to be in um I'm also not convinced that if a if a tiny tile breaks like that's any better that if somebody can get their like heel stuck in the tiny tile hole than having like a really a big hexagonal 6in tile that breaks and you're just like we have to we have to fix this it's like like a 6-in hole in this in the in the uclid oval so I think there's like maybe a little bit more of an urgency uh I'm worried more about crack tiles where people are like it's just a crack and you'll get those more in 6inch tiles than you will um in presumably in the smaller in the smaller tiles but you know I don't know does anybody have any any thoughts on on that so I was I was actually going to say as to the tile I was hesitant before and having kind of held it in hand and kind of felt the weight of it and um I know she talked about you know invariably things are going to break if somebody drops something very heavy from very high but I'm trying to contemplate what that might be here um you know or is it just a matter of striking it just right you know maybe that's the question I mean is that heavy enough yes he he suggested a water bottle for those who couldn't hear um so um um they feel I don't know more durable than I guess what I was expecting when we were describing ceramic tile so to to that end I I appreciate you bringing the samples that makes a huge difference for somebody like me who like I want to be able to like see and touch and feel and kind of it makes a difference um so specifically to that issue I feel better about this tile than I did before um and I agree that the vibrancy of the colors I mean if we lose that to go with you know for example the cast concrete right um and and even the um the porcelain the mosaic tile um is still more muted if I can I'm I'm curious and I don't know if you have these numbers in front of you but would I arguably being comparing this ceramic to a a043 those are the comparable colors if you will is that right yes so even when I compare the two of those you're looking at a much more muted tone yeah um so I am I'm I'm cautiously optimistic maybe that's my view on the world um about the ceramic tile to your point yeah know so I think last time I had suggested to use a more of a continuous material similar to the black and white in the keyboard and I'm not sure if you had a chance to research on something like that if that could be done in different colors because I think if we use a continuous material like that and if it's properly installed with the necessary joints we will prevent cracks and I think the maintenance in the long run would be much less than having the tiles whatever size we decide to go with yeah unfortunately that's not possible to achieve this design we have too many colors it would require very complex form work that only an artist would be able to do and last lastly it has the same challenge as the concrete sample or even worse which is that concrete is just not able to obtain this kinds of colors um that concrete is done in a control facility where they know exactly what the pigment is when we go to a cast material you're depending on blending the pigment into the concrete that day and it's just something I would just not advise it's I mean unless you have an amazing artist that specializes in this and it's not part of the scope um I just don't think we can achieve that with the kind of um contract that we have how do you get the white on the keyboards the the piano keys are painted with regular paint today like regular paint no no but the new ones they will be the new ones we not changing the concrete what we're applying is a polyaspartic coating it's basically a coating that is significantly stronger than your regular paint and it would last somewhere around 10 years we have two mockups of that material installed right now one around the uclid oval I just went to see it um and you can see the difference between that material and what you have today in terms of peeling off and um uh uh color stability but it is just a surface um application right so then and I'm just throwing an oddball here would it be an option to have something similar to that on the oven and painted in whatever pattern it's been deci side and and then this design is beautiful but that doesn't mean that's the only design available so I'm just trying to be creative here and see what alternatives we could explore um as you said if we were to explore that alternative we would need to change the design the size and the intricacy of the pattern is too small for that material that material is sprayed um on large scale which is why it's great for the piano keys but it really willn't work at this scale Lindsay well and I just I wanted to speak to one of the questions I think was about um casting casting concrete cast in place and I just would point us all to our red sidewalks which I love but the variations that we have you know as they're replaced or I mean even you know even in in Mass when they're replaced it just they're not the same and so I just I I I agree but I I just want to use that as kind of a real world example again for the person who likes to feel see and touch um I think that's important to kind of keep in mind here um that we need some sort of materiality that is controlled prior to being put into this space what do you think is the most important um issue that our Maintenance and Facilities team needs to be aware of with option A with this hex I think two things first like I mentioned we will be buying attic stock we will be adding additional tiles so the city just needs to store them in the Lo where they are accessible they know they exist be able to find them the second is I think we do need to work with event planners whether it's through the bid or I don't know if they Outsource other events just to make sure that people are careful as they're willing things in and out of the space in the case of installing the Christmas tree or um or having a loud a speaker that may be heavy so that they understand what this means uh for example we had a conversation with the bid director the other day and we started speaking about what you can and cannot do like we would don't advise you to drive a car inside of the oval right um so it would be more about that talking about um overall recommendations on how to again do your temporary installations in a way that um respects the material but again it is a material that's tough it's rated for exteriors it's UV stable it's rated for public spaces we're not it's not something super delicate but you know you also just need to understand what you can and cannot do there I wouldn't advise you put a Formula 1 car over this for example so this is somewhat of a comment to my f board member but maybe a question um I feel like that's something we could probably control through permitting process assuming that this requires special events permitting when those types of things are done um if we could you know as part of the permitting process you know here's the dos and don'ts yeah or even in an acknowledgement form that really puts that extremely prominent for anybody that's doing an an event on on Lincoln Road so that it yeah I so I I feel like that's something that could be incorporated in may already so I don't want to speak out of turn um so that's kind of the question part of it do you guys know if those types of conditions are part of special events permits for this type of space or can it be and we have to see I do not know I got to defer that to an the department so I involv Ariel I can speak to this I know a little bit um especially specific to Lincoln Road so I think first of all our special events permits do require any damage to to that occurs as a result of a special event to be repaired by the holder of that special event permit um but I do know that there is um a very sensitive review of special events that incorporate you know large structural type elements especially on Lincoln Road because I get I get called calls um from that office quite often about anything that's being done to the Lapidus Foles um that sometimes people want to put art installations and that type of thing on the Foles which you know the the special event staff understands are sensitive structures um and so planning can certainly coordinate um with them to make sure that nothing insensitive is being done uh to that area my concern with when you do replace a tile it's going to stick out like a sore thumb there's no way the grout is going to match when you cut out a tile and you put another tile in and you regrow it in you know maybe level and everything else but it's going to stick out like a sore thumb and and that's my concern in something like this do you have any response to like experience with um replacing tiles in other locations I mean we do um again the tiles themselves are UV stable so they should not be changing colors grout does absorb color and stains over time but that's why we're proposing the sealer to prevent that there are also chemicals that can be used to clean grout I do it at my house um so there's ways around it um I think it's just a matter of how um you know how attentive the city's maintenance team can be and how tight our maintenance manual is which um I think it's is highly needed um we're also talking about a small space right Lincoln Road is eight blocks long we're talking about a really really small space that we want to make extra special um and along with that comes um the value of what you're getting out of it and a little bit more maintenance perhaps and when we turn over the project we'll turn over a maintenance manual two two facilities right with all that information okay all right great well I was going to um thank you for all those for your patience with the with these uh questions and comments and I was just going to I I agreed with El izabeth with the with the font of the um the previous font which I I believe is just a stretched version of the like you just squash the font down is it a new font with a new name between the old and the new or is it just that You' pulled them it's just if you look at the Lincoln Road um you look for example in the A on the old Lincoln Road it's a bigger taller triangle than the triangle in the a of the of the new one John would you point us to the page you're looking at so the can join you I'm looking at page 20 sorry page 20 so the font of the original sign it's not the font that is proposed for the way finding and that was a comment that we had received before it's more of a logo so when we do logos we have a particular font that's a little more elegant a little bit more simplified as a graphic and then you have the font that you use for typing messages that needs to be a little bit more standardized the comment that we had received is that the discrepancy between the fonts made it look like a different family so the sign right now is the font that is proposed for the way finding I was only going to say even though I I don't I prefer the logo font to the the the slightly more stretched and without the without the horizontals on the eye um I still appreciate that I appreciate that they're all the same because I think that's really going to look like a graphic a graphic package that have been thought through so I think from a readability perspective as well this extra legs that may not be as elegant do assist with reading off the font yes I was going to suggest if you could get rid of the horizontal legs on the eye they really bother me if you the amount of eyes you may have there I don't think they will make the reading that complicated and it just looks so much nicer it just I mean for me it just hurts my eye when I look at it and I saw those little things that because that's the only letter in all of them that has anything like that everything else is much more may I ask you is that only a comment for the sign or is it also for the font at large because I would ask for the whole if you going to change it font at large change for everything so we are consistent we're just not scoped to create a custom font um these are the fonts that are available so I would need to ask our graphic designer what would be the complexity of customizing the eye for the sign is not an issue cuz we're building the sign but when it comes to all the other signage yeah it's just by just by Fate that all the sign findings you show here there is no Capital wi there so the only Capital wi we can see in the package was the one on linol road okay I think we should actually look to the bid on what they think is the right fund they're the ones that have to live with it forever you know and since we're sort of wishy-washy over the font I think the the bid really should be the one that would say we like this one better I I do I I believe the I believe it's our job if the bid were going to be on the D they would be making but they've they've weighed in I agree I I agree with Elizabeth but I think the compromise here is to is to do what you did which was make it all consistent one way or the other because that's I think you're going to find people on both sides of the eye with hor that's why I said wishiwashi well well if if I may so [Music] um I was I was just sitting here thinking I I remember that comment coming up and I don't know if it was somebody who's still sitting on this board that made the comment last time um I do think that if I recall one of the discussions um with the ey and whether or not I had this with whether it's with Sarah or s sarif right um is in the previous iteration it had the lines that you can all see on the first page of your book and it all kind of looked like it ran together once you lose the lines and just have the linol road it doesn't look like it runs together in the same way and so I think that might that might be resolving the problem in and of itself or perceived problem um I agree with consistency um so I mean if there's a way to shave the tariffs off and make that I'm you know I mean I think even you know you know I think the new like the standard word font is now Sans serf as opposed to Times New Roman it's a sandf font um and kind of the tendency the the trend is going that direction um so from a readability standpoint on a piece of paper I prefer Sarah fants um as somebody who reads lots of papers and writes lots of papers um but from a graphic design perspective which is not certainly my expertise but just from a visual appearance I like um without the serf um and I don't want us to be wishy-washy but I think the the rule of film the suggestion that's made is consistency um and but my preference is to the sign at the end of Lincoln the monument sign if you will so what we're calling it Monument sign um to not have the siif on the eye and if that means that we look at being consistent throughout the district without having the siif on the eyes then I would support that if that is a possibility um I noticed that uh Debbie and Jake are conferring Debbie did you have anything you want to add to this um I mean I think it's a great discussion personally I agree with Elizabeth I don't like the Sarah on the eye but if you look at the font um and again that's just a personal preference it's not a recommendation to this board whatsoever um because I wouldn't you know do that um if you look at the font only the I has a serif it is a serif list font that they chose except for the eye now the Eye plays a part in our sign for Lincoln Road because we have an ie um and then so my only concern would be really they can chop it off the monument sign but then they can't chop it off the way finding signs so consistency would be we have an eye with serifs um if you wanted to have a slight inconsistency they could easily change the monument sign but then it's not consistent throughout and I do think consistency is important throughout the city particularly important on Lincoln Road um and we we just for sure there's no other font well my question was she said we don't have in our capabilities a custom font but it sounded to me perhaps I misheard that the possibility is still open that we could perhaps lose the sffs on this eye you would have to speak with somebody that's not in this room at this moment did I Mis understand okay so our scope of work includes the graphic design for the project which we've had since 2016 and it's always been this font and this Gra graphic the font is an off-the-shelf product you buy it and you create your identity out of it that's what I mean by not being able to eliminate the Serv from the eye that would mean that we're basically designing a font and our graphic designer would need to go through the extent of Designing the font and um basically getting the getting a license for it which it's a little bit above and beyond what the scope of work here might be we could look at an alternative fund but again because we are coming back to you after having the whole project being approved this goes above and beyond what our contract is and the city would need to be okay with having us explore an alternative lastly we could shop off the serifs from the sign because the sign is a built construct and we have no issue doing that it's just a consistency um question I'm sorry to be so so you know specific about our contract but it's we're we're just trying to get this built after 8 years so yeah up if I could just point out to clarify our recommendation I think the font as currently proposed does satisfy your criteria um It's Perfectly appropriate to approve as is um so I think a lot of I think Mr Stuart said a lot of people are going to have a lot of different opinions on it um and it really is it comes down to kind of your personal gut feeling when you see things um so you know I'm here with whatever the board decides but we are supportive of it currently proposed okay and I'll just add just for the record that the horizontal bars above and below the ey are not siaps they are just horizontal bars above and below an ey it's a all sand sarant in e in both cases um but that said I just think I think understanding the complexities that you've just outlined and your position I would recommend that we go with what we go with what we got consistency across Lincoln Road is more important that you every time you see Lincoln Road it's not like somebody just put up a sign and wrote it themselves and typed it out themselves but it looks like it's the official sign from that the bid you know is using so anyway I I don't know if anybody else has any other comments otherwise go ahead Elizabeth since I was the one that stirred the pot I feel like I need to say something at the end so I was the one that brought up the comment last time about the consistency and I do believe that consistency is more important than my dislike of the little bars on the eye so I will go with John I think we just go with what we have and just drop it so apologize for the turmoil I caed so with uh with that but I want to thank you for your observations um would anybody like to propose a motion I'll propose a MH um I'll propose that we um give the certificate of appropriateness um subject to the staff recommendations and I guess um addressing the inconsistencies that were uh articulated earlier I believe option option with also option one chosen as the ceramic I'm sorry correct as the ceramic hexagonal um option and keeping the font at as is shown on page 19 a second so it's really the staff recommendation with the option one as recommended by staff a second Ray Deb you wanted to call the role yes I will um Miss level yes Mr Meyer no uh Miss Camargo yes Mr Brin yes um Mr Erick yes Mr Stewart yes good that passes congratulations thank you thank you thank you very much have a good day okay um our our next application is HPB 23 0604 this is 1709 Jefferson Avenue an application has been filed requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the construction of a new townhouse development to replace an existing surface parking lot one or more waivers in a variance to exceed the maximum permitted fence height um this particular site is located at the intersection of 17th Street in Jefferson Avenue it is within the rm1 zoning District so it's a residential multif family zoning District um it is surrounded but to the north by a single family zoning District um rm2 zoning to the East and CD3 commercial zoning to the South um the applicant is currently proposing a 10 unit townhouse development consisting of twin four-story buildings arranged around a central Motor Court um the existing property is currently used as a parking a surface parking lot so staff is generally uh supportive of the application and is uh does commend the applicant for proposing a high quality structure on what is um the surface parking lot which is not adding any value to the current uh residential neighborhood to the north um the straightforward design is accented by projecting balconies gold color screen elements um that reference the Morris Lapidus design Building located at 1688 Meridian Avenue um further we believe the distribution of architectural forms results in a highly compatible development um especially with the 17th Street built context uh we did note a couple concerns in our staff Report with regard to the design uh one was regarding the transition area between the multif family parcel um and the single family Parcels to the north um we are making a recommendation that the motor Court area be tightened up slightly to increase a um a landscape buffer uh with the single family home um we also had some uh concerns regarding the rooftop elements um we are asking the applicant to explore mirroring um the buildings along the east west access which would minimize the rooftop stair and elevator bulkheads uh we have also recommended that the rooftop elements not be painted a dark contrasting color which in our opinion um accentuates the additional height that those uh result in um the applicant is asking for a one waiver this waiver is with regard to the uh height of the parking level um the uh resiliency code does require a minimum height of 12 ft clearance above base flood elevation plus freeboard so it would be 12T above 9 ngbd UM the code however in in instances where compatibility may be an issue the code does allow the board to wave up to 2 feet of that 12 feet in order to address compatibility issues um in this instance staff does believe um that that is warranted um especially given the unique uh condition adjacent to a single family um residential zoning District um the applicant is also asking for one variance and this variance is with regard to the fence height um a 7ft tall fence is permitted um that would be measured from grade the applicant is requesting a 7 foot 10 and a/4 inch fence um staff has outlined our rationale for the um for the site and why we are supporting the variants number one um the the buffer between the residential single family small scale home in this new building we do believe is a unique condition um and warrants that additional protection to the single family the contributing single family home we also note that since this is entirely new construction they are required to raise the grade of their site um so there the site grade is being raised but the measurement of the fence is still taken from um grade at the sidewalk level um so these two issues we do believe create some unique um circumstances which warrant the granting of the variant um I'm available for any questions but that's all I had um feel free to ask me any questions oh the the N narrowing the car um circulation there what was proposed and what are you suggesting because I can't read the font is very small in the drawings so we didn't have a specific number that we were suggesting I believe since our staff report came out the applicant has considered our recommendation and did submit an exhibit a an exhibit a um I don't believe I don't know if those were were distributed to the board members but okay it's all exhibit a and yes sorry for the you do not have exhibit a I think we have an extra one Brian sorry it's coming so uh Elizabeth an answer to your question no it's okay my question is what was proposed and what's the new version of it sure so Mr chairman I'm going to respond to lizza's question U Can can we just wait for just one second we'll just Jake and I did review the the plans which was an enhanced landscape plan as well um and we do believe that exhibit a is consistent with our recommendation okay it's just we wrote our our recommendation prior to receiving exhibit a yeah and um you mentioned uh bulkhead structures in your report correct now I believe those are shown um modified on exhibit a okay all right um not right we agree but they're not shown okay just in the plan they're shown okay in the floor plan which in it was a color it was a recommendation of of a pain of a color and the right the color but also shifting um of those structures yeah we were just trying to minimize the length of exhibit a and I thought the motorport reduction was an important site plan for you for you all to consider okay so uh any other questions just for Debbie I do uh currently it's shown the driveway is 9 18 ft how much are you expecting a reduction of how many more feet or or inches and is that really going to uh create any difference in the sight lines for the building and adjacent properties I yeah I think the issue here because the 19 ft is the reduction and we're supportive of the reduction the original plans some of the board members may not have and we'll do our best um to distri because that was those were part of your April package right right right right and and so I think that's where the confusion is lying the April meeting was unfortunately cancelled and we did not redistribute those same plans so Jake is passing out some sets of the original and and Mr chairman just to put a finer point on this when Debbie releases the staff recommendation we try to do what we can to be responsive so in answer to your question question hasle like from garage door to garage door is 29 ft you're right and that it's a driveway aisle width we reduced it from 29 ft to 24 feet and we apply that to an increased interior side yard setback along our North property line which pushed our whole building farther south to give them more room I appreciate that because I think I don't I don't think one could live with much less than 19 ft I think that would be difficult I agree okay with that thank you very much Debbie yes Michael please take it away so good morning Mr chairman board M staff Michael Lin here representing the applicant could the presentation be uh going up please great so I'm here today with the owners eigor Mission and Michael troski appearing via Zoom our Architects Kobe karp and Taylor Shima from Kobe karp architecture our landscape architect Christopher CI our traffic engineer Jorge Pena and Michael yannopoulos is my colleague uh staff has reconned approval and we accept all conditions set forth in the staff recommendation without objection uh next slide please next slide so the property is located within the Palm View local historic district the property at the corner of Jefferson Avenue and 17th Street the property is surrounded by single family residential use to the north multif family to the East and then of course Office Buildings to the South so it is purely a transition zone rm1 is the appropriate transition zone here next Slide the property is currently a surface Park parking lot which has outlived its usefulness it's time to have better architecture here it did serve the operational parking demand of the office building to the South but is no longer become necessary since I guess since Co people going to the office has slacked a lot so it is virtually unused now so it's time for a better use next slide just about this time last year you all approved a multif family rental apartment building uh in this very same location but um then ownership changed and that project went by the wayside next slide so now the project will transform this existing parkon to a 10un town home Community the ground floor will contain a driveway and garage parking for each unit then you have two buildings with five units per building as Debbie has summarized for you all we're requesting a COA for Demolition and design we're requesting a waiver to reduce the height of the ground floor parking area from 12 to 10 ft and we're requesting a variance based upon our discussion with the to the north his main concern was privacy so as you'll see throughout the course of the presentation every different way we tried to address that concern and here we Advan the Wall height just a little bit more to give him more privacy uh and exhibit a is not meant to frustrate you please note that exhibit a just the multitude of changes are really landscape changes we try to show you in different ways the two architectural changes we adding a planter box on the edge of the north building and the rooftop area are so the occupants of that town un could not peer into the yard of Mr Boulevard to the North and the only other architectural change was of course pursuant to Debbie's suggestion a reduction in the width of the motorport in order to give him more privacy next slide so here all is a chronology we take neighbor Outreach very seriously I had uh two phone calls with Juan Boulevard prior to the February 23rd on January 27th February 8 8 he expressed me a number of desires and change that he wanted I brought that to the design team and so when we had our official meeting with him on February 23rd we were able to give him all the changes he was very appreciative of that on March 14th we met with a Monclair Homeowner Association they didn't like the gumbo limos along the shared property line they preferred to have Live Oaks so we instead put Live Oaks I assume that they the Live Oaks are there now and they just wanted a continuity of the existing foilage so inste of Gumble lumos we're now having Live Oaks and then we met with the PA view neighborhood association which is the most General Association governing this area Miami Beach and we had a good uh meeting with them as well it was during that meeting that Mr Boulevard expressed some dissatisfaction with the screening element that's on top of the wall on our shared property line we gave him four options he chose one and that's now a part of exhibit a and then on April 11th he asked that Chris C come to his home and suggest to him different types of landscaping that could thrive in shade and Chris Calli did make that appointment and met with him and made a number of suggestions to Mr Boulevard that he can incorporate on his side of the property line so with that I think I'm going to turn over to Kobe karp the real star of the show and let Mr karp Walk you all through his design thank you very much so my name is Kobe carp thank you so much I love your new headquarters such a pleasure to be here since 1990 um if I can go to the next image so this is the cyan the Cy is quite interesting as you know Debbie and and Jake and everybody has worked together um it's really a nice plan that works together and I think that the comments by the neighbor actually have helped the project U we have more Green Space Landscape space around we basically have an opportunity to create the town homes and we do agree with staff comments you can see here with the tops are a bit dark in the color um staff is asking us to make it lighter um and to make it the same color as the white one we agree with that and the metal you have it on the sample material we have metal which we picked up on the mor slop it is immediately adjacent and the notion is to on the brown there uh is just to make it feel um shorter um as you can see the layout is quite simple and um each unit has a bit of a garden and also a landscape that comes all the way around and Chris who's going to come up and talk about the landscape I think has done a phenomenal job to create the green spaces and really create a product here which is contextual with the immediate neighborhood of um residences this is the material board and the elevations which we have and the Landscaping of How It's implemented vertically into the design of the the building in a sustainable and resilient fashion um these are the elevations um and again we're the landscaping and the client is deeply um wanting to create uh and deliver a project that is second to none in this community Chris can you come up and talk about the landscape just a little bit and I'm here for any questions and or suggestions thank you so much good morning everyone uh Chris collie Chris colly landscape art Ure it's an honor to be here speak about this wonderful project and I also want to say that the um the new Chambers here are very nice it's very bright welcoming and it's uh and somehow it still seems uh it seems more intimate and larger at the same time so but happy to speak about the project if we want to bring up uh the slides um okay here's our um overall landscape master plan uh we did work really hard um with our design team and also uh with the neighboring um buildings and and uh the neighbor to the north to really make sure that the project is nestled into the environment into the landscape and a really sensitive way um we did that through um with a number of strategies um along Jefferson Avenue um to the West um what I consider the frontage of of the project that's where you enter um we are preserving some of the really large canopy trees that are currently there in the right away um and you can see those on the far left um we thought that that was a really uh great thing to do and it provides the first layer of landscape screening uh when the project is viewed um you know when coming from that direction then as you move closer to our um front property area um we have a row bridlevale trees um and that uh is a second layer of screening and then as you get closer to the building we have some large sable palms um and uh two large flanking Gumbo Limbo trees on left and right side of the driveway so that you really feel like you're entering a really beautiful landscape space and uh we think this is really important because I mean it is such an important neighborhood and it's such an important opportunity and we we really want to do something beautiful with the landscape there that the community can be proud of and that everybody can be proud out of um there's been a lot of talk about the way the property um the northern boundary of the property where on the screen here that would be at the top of the page um there's a a person that lives there that's very very nice and we've met with um him numerous times and when we started the project we had a scheme for very nice screening along that Northern property line and I think there's some exhibits that will be coming as we move through but um in summary we have uh through a number of um additions provided different layers of screening along that Northern property line because I really do understand that if you had the the residence there how important this buffer could be and I went and met with the gentleman um on the property to really understand the scale of the space and so along the northern property line there we have again a layered effect and in summary you know the tallest layer which are Royal Palms that was mentioned earlier like on the Lincoln Road project that um everybody was fortunate to hear about um then we have the the sable palms below and then we have a a layer of Evergreen uh trees along the property line and so you know by doing that what we're trying to do is create a screening that at The Pedestrian scale and from the backyard um of this gentleman's residents you would just see these trees but then of course you have the projects rising up uh higher into the sky and that's where the taller palm trees and everything come in um we did a whole bunch of studies to really make sure that what we were proposing was going to work um uh here's some additional slides uh here's a an elevation that we made this would be looking from Jefferson Avenue into the project we really um yes how much more time do you need um three minutes yeah three minutes let me just uh make sure okay so so this is the elevation along the Jefferson Avenue side and you can see what we're trying to do with the landscape um I mean it's it's pretty self-explanatory in in terms of the layered um effect there um on the far left in this image you see the tall Royal Palms that will be separating the property to the north that's the the highest element that we're using to help transition um the project into the environment um the driveway entrance is right in the middle of the slide here and what you're seeing far beyond there are some very large trees were posing along the eastern boundary um and so that's that side that side here's the northern um boundary this is what the the neighbor to the north when they look into our property would see there is a large um uh there is landscape in his portion of the property as well which we're not showing in this image here just for clarity purposes but you see the the wall that would separate the property but you can see how the layer of landscape really help to bring the the building um uh you know into the environment there and to provide screening um this view right here would be from 17th Street so there's a tall Royal Palms up and down that street on on both sides of it so here uh on the southern boundary of our project we're proposing to keep those Royal Palms because we feel it's kind of like an Urban Design element of the street and we also liked how that they help bring the the project into scale um and then there's a little bit of a lighter landscape here it's a little bit less in the sense that um there's not so many layers of of of screening per se but it's still Tastefully done um with a small row of uh trees along the back of the wall and some taller Palms in between to um help Shield the balconies this is along the um Eastern property line this is what I believe it's the Montclair to the eastw seea so there's some large trees that are basically um at the end of our drive I'll try and go a little quicker here here's a section along the northern property line again our our office and the team was making these because we really wanted to prove to oursel that what we were proposing will be an awesome screen for the neighbor we know how difficult it is to Rel landscape plans um and so this was really helpful for us um we made these 3D renderings as well that at the bottom what you see right there is is would be inside our project and to the left would be the neighboring um to the left would be the North and the buffer that we have at The Pedestrian scale between the properties and then at the top is a perspective view that we made from the neighbor's backyard looking so you can see how our building is screen and then the Far Eastern property line along the mclair so I don't want to talk too much then we have some before and afters of the different types of levels of screening that we added at the top there is how we started the project on the north at the bottom are the different layers that we kept adding to provide additional screening and and that's pretty much uh in summary the landscape presentation so I'm happy to answer any questions and again it's honored to be here thank you great thank you Mr chairman just so the last slide is the explanation of the variance that Debbie went over you know walls unfortunately buildings are measured from BFB plus freeboard and gives building a benefit based on flooding walls don't have that luxury so walls are measured from the street from the S so we have to bring an additional sod under current city regulations but we can't measure our wall from our side we have to measure it from a common point of measurement which is the ground we do want to give him additional privacy and we believe the 10 inches do are meaningful to him and that's the basis of the variance thank you that's all we have Mr chairman great thank you very much so um board questions for the applicants go ahead Brian um just a question on the palms uh on the Royal Palms are those is that the correct height at delivery yes and that's why we exactly okay thanks no um you mentioned that um I think responding to one of the one of Becka's comment der's comment your proposing the Planters on the rooftop along the north yeah the north it's not in the drawings right it should be in the drawings it's in exhibit a I think um hold on it's in a drawing right page a 4.02 and also we have it um on the a403 on the elevations I'm sorry Kobe can you repeat the first one again yeah 4.02 and 4.0 three that's the original okay Elizabeth also not to outdo Kobe but in your exhibit a if you look at sheet L 1.03 they should be picted there as well correct okay yeah I was not looking landscape plans because I figured this is an architectural feature I did the same thing I Was preparing for the hearing I'm like where is it and then I I found it so thank you for that thank you okay and just since we're looking at um l103 is the are the bulk hits that we're talking about on the top that the staff mentioned are they on top of the building are they those is that what will be painted white though um no that's something different that's in your staff recommendation Debbie the bulkhead the bulkheads I'm still I'm still stuck on what the bulkheads well you've got the stair and elevator above the roof line and then you have the shade structures on the top okay got it mhm yes the elevator bul kits yep thank you and is there a rendering where you can see that Northern that north wall like what it what the ultimate solution was I we've seen a section through it but it's kind of hard to see l16 so if l106 as a part of exhibit a is there rendering that depicts this additional Landscaping L1 and l105 those are the pictures actually that Chris won met with the neighbor to the north and took those photos and we made those images from that okay but they're kind of it yeah okay L 105 is there one just where you see the where you see the fence like just what that will be before the landscape like is it in l103 is it on that top um can you see is it lightly laid out as you can kind of see a fence structure drawn very lightly on top it's about the same height it looks like almost about the same height as the solid wall below okay that's what it is got it yeah go ahead and identify that um identify the plan page yes hey everybody uh on sheet L 1.04 there's the section along the northern property line and so basically I know it's a section and you're not seeing it flat on but basically below you have a white stucco concrete wall and then um on top of it there would be a u a small piece of vertical picket fence paneling um in a manner that's been approved by the neighbor and um designed with our design team yeah no that's exactly what I was asking because if you look at L 1.04 you look at the fence it looks like there are some horiz two horizontal I'm cutting through two horizontals but if you look at l103 you see only you see only verticals so I I I was just that quick I know the history behind that I believe is that on the and everybody um can speak to this is along the Montclair was it's two horizontal silver panels on the existing wall along the east property line but the neighbor to the north didn't want that particular type of design on their side so then it was changed at some part of the process into a more black vertical picket to be more consistent with what they thought would be better for the boundary okay so the A1 so the a the l104 drawing number one the section is not really is not really showing the accurate um the accurate fence between the northern on the northern fence it would be the accurate fence for the eastern fence correct and if you look at a 52 it it shows it an elevation I believe the accurate elevation of that fence wall so there would be one kind of the fence from one along one property line will be different than the other side based on the the adjacent neighbor correct and that's not this one would not be um the north wall That's not also not drawn correctly according to if the most recent one if the one that they're really going with is l103 drawing one on the in the um that's where you see the where you see the verticals on top of the horizontal on top of the the KNE I think it's my understanding that the a sheet shows the more accurate version right so without the horizontal a 5.02 yeah that we're reference corre we're sorry for the confusing nature I was just trying to limit the amount of plan Pages this one a a5.2 is a controlling plan page as part of exhibit the exhibit a set no no I'll give you that that's the elevation it's our fault but we we're trying to capture everyone's preferences and design and give you all the most current information and sometimes it will conflict with prior information we apologize for that all good thank you for clarifying all right so with that are there any any comments for the or or any questions for the applicant otherwise we'll go to um disclosures disclosure any disclosure uh would anybody like to make a comment about the application um so since your last presentation obviously you've changed your whole Direction here with the with the tow houses and I think it's really great um uh there are a lot of condominiums for sale all over Miami Beach not so many tow houses um uh I think um it's interesting that you raised the wad wall by 10 and A4 inches why not 10 inches why not 11 inches 10 and a quar inches but I found that interesting but I I really think you've done a great job and you've maintained the consistency of your original presentation you know if somebody would look at this presentation and that presentation you know you'd say you you haven't made any changes in terms of your overall uh consistency with materials and and and yes you've changed your Landscaping somewhat but I think you've done a great job and and I appreciate it thank you you I didn't see the previous presentation but I do see this one in front of us now uh I think uh I would hope that uh many other developers are sensitive to the community as much as you've uh provided to the surrounding neighbors I think the building design is beautiful I think it's uh set within the um boundaries and uh I applaud you for coming up with such a consistent design with the neighborhood thank you yeah I would just Echo everything that that has been said um I think that this product is really important um I'm so glad that you guys are actually doing it and building it because I don't see it being built enough here and the fact that there's a business model and case for this I think is going to create um precedent for other people doing these types of projects um they are from an urbanis urbanistic um standpoint I think that they're incredibly um needed uh the the integration of the Landscaping the these samples were are fantastic thank you again um I just say again anyone that brings samples really really big fan they're they're excellent and to Lindsay's Point earlier it really does allow us to to confirm and to validate what our thoughts are because renderings do not tell the full story um so this is a fantastic asset and um to the to the Palm View neighborhood and and thank you Elizabeth no thank you very much for the presentation and the samples um yeah and um think I'm just following what he just said um uh it's very nice I mean one of the big challenges I think we have in the city is to propose new construction adjacent to existing and dealing with the Heights and existing low a lwh height residents complaining about being overwhelmed with adjacent properties so I really applaud you reaching out to all your neighbors making them all happy and making concessions to make this happen because I think that's the way to move forward so thank you very much Lindsay I don't have a lot more to add uh I do Echo the comments about the samples but I've said that a lot today um it does really help um more than just kind of putting pen to paper it really helps to see what this is going to look like when it is um you know complete um I do appreciate uh the the limitations of this site and being able to provide fcing and the work that you guys have put into working with your neighbors in the neighborhood um so I applaud you for that and I appreciate you bringing before us a good project thanks and go ahead go ahead one more John sorry oh please yes please um I'm going to Echo what Brian said and this is purely my opinion not necessarily a uh um yeah just purely my opinion um that I I'm excited to see this I think this is a a type of housing stock that we lack in this area of the Metropolitan like the yeah so um I really appreciate that so looking forward to it thanks and I was just asking if one of the comments was to paint the bulkheads White if you did the if you have a rendering showing that cuz I have the feeling that having them dark breaks the white from the uh hand the guard rail and the element or horizontal element on the top so I think it make them look a little actually shorter than they would be if it's all wide so if you don't mind having a rendering and I think staff can look at them and decide I'm going to hold you guys back in we'll do will do thank you right so I those are great comments and I um I wholeheartedly agree and I also wanted to compliment staff on the um on your ex on your explanation for the variance uh it was kind of a complex uh calculus to figure out exactly um kind of how the site was working how the heights the new height the old height the fence as you as you mentioned Michael but also um how this presents a practical difficulty when addressing uh these um you know um the Land Development regulations requirements um on the on the site with the neighbors so with that I would um let's see we'll first do a um a motion for the um should we do start with the variances or should residents to return to the community and this hopefully will be a catalyst to bring more projects uh that that are uh that that that are similar thank you thank you okay so we can resume um yes absolutely glad always glad to have mitches so absolutely yep all right so us any do I hear a motion for uh the certificate of appropriateness ready thank you yes one clarification for Elizabeth comment that we could modify um condition one C which we required the bulkheads to be painted the same color we could say the paint the paint color shall be further developed in a manner to be reviewed by staff for those structures did you accept that Ray okay okay I'll second raise motion great okay and I will call the role um Mr Meyer yes Mr Erick yes Miss carago yes Miss level yes Mr Brin yes Mr Stewart yes okay and then we need a second motion for the variance I'll move for the variance I'll second it okay let me call the role um Miss carago yes Mr brein yes Miss LEL yes Mr Erick yes Mr Meyer yes and Mr Stewart yes okay great thank you all very much all right two more two more to okay our next application is HPB 24- 0607 um this is 1776 Collins Avenue and 1775 James Avenue an application has has been filed requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the introduction of a ground level covered Breezeway structure um the subject site contains two contributing buildings they abut each other at the rear um between Collins Avenue and James Avenue um both buildings are owned by the same um entity which is our applicant today and our currently functioning operations as one hotel um in m in order to eff more efficiently move gas between the properties uh the applicant is requesting approval for the introduction of a pedestrian connector um between the two structures the new elevated walkway will connect to the rear of each building and will require a very limited demolition in order to create the new openings um for the vestibules on each side um the open air walkways feature a sculptural form with undulating ribs composed of glue laminate wood um you know staff when we first met with the applicant was very excited about this because it is at the rear of the buildings where we don't have any significant architectural features and what they're proposing is really a visually interesting sculptural form which we think is perfectly appropriate at this particular location on the buildings it will also serve to activate right now um if you look between the buildings it's kind of a dark service way between the buildings which doesn't have much activity um and does create kind of a little bit of a black hole on the Block so we do also think this will serve to enhance the public realm um and also increase safety as this structure will have a an architectural lighting element to it um so we're very supportive um we want to thank the applicant for the Creative Design uh effort that was put into this and we are recommending approval I'm available for any questions any questions for SE n all right please thank you so much my name is Paul Savage with L is at 200 South biscan Boulevard Miami Florida with the burkhow Rell Law Firm I'm here representing the applicant today on item number six of your agenda and I want to just take a moment to thank Debbie for that glowing introduction and for having several meetings with our uh design team as we came together with this modest but very important functional and beautiful uh part of our operations here at the hotel so with that I'd like to ask the uh the uh staff to put up our PowerPoint presentation please and also uh you can see here the location at 1776 Collins with Collins being on the leftand side of the screen there and if you look to the middle of the two buildings between 1776 Collins and 1775 James Avenue you'll see the uh a rendering of the connector of course we'll have uh um it's a little bit hard to see there but I wanted to give you the context uh first and with that I'd like to introduce a member of our ownership team Camilo mataras who uh is going to just give a brief statement about uh their ownership of the hotel and their operations Camilo good morning uh steam members of the historic board preservation of Miami Beach my name is camil mataras and I am honored to stand before you today as the owner representative for red 18 LLC the company proudly overseeing both assets located at 1776 Collins Avenue and 1775 James Avenue in this viant city under our stewardship both properties operate harmoniously under the steam umah house by Urban Hotel flag today we are thrilled to present a Visionary concept aimed to enhancing the Synergy between these two these two iconic locations the proposal to connect both properties this strategic initiative is not only intended to elevate the guest experience but also to optimize the efficiency of our daily operations through this integration we aim to further solidify our commitment to offering unparallel Hospitality while maintaining the historical Integrity of these cherish landmarks thank you for your opportunity to share vision for the future of these beautiful properties with you today thank you thank you very much Camilo and uh I'll just like to go ahead and go through uh and and take you through uh the application a bit um this is of course a location there at 1776 Collins Avenue as described this is the um Collins Avenue uh Frontage there with a three-story existing contributing Hotel uh going around to the 1775 James Avenue uh location uh this is the frontage uh to the uh to the back of the property if you will uh with the structure again all of the property and both of the uh structures are owned and operated under the same uh Uma Hotel flag and so what the Genesis of this whole program is that we have patrons invitees and staff uh who need to tr who need the connectivity between the two structures and we want to accomplish that to so that that will occur in a safe lighted and uh organized structure and this will be a great Improvement to the current situation uh this this slide uh depicts more closely uh the uh very distinct design that Debbie framed up for us as this board knows better than I do in the realm of historic preservation you can go for a uh a very a closely matching structure or you can go for an obviously architectural variation statement and so obviously we pick the latter in our design here uh also accompanying uh me today is Piola Roso who is with the uh Uma Hotel flag and the operators of this of this site uh and most importantly for today's uh proceedings is Raphael you'll have to forgive me Raphael Raphael gusar I think I did that he'll he'll have to help me um and so we're gonna I'm going to welcome Raphael who really had the the vision for this unique uh really a a focal point now from a it's going to go from a kind of a dark service alley to to something of real visual interest so uh with that and I can't take credit for it it was rafhael design so I'm going to invite Raphael up now uh to go through and explain more about the materiality and his vision for this Raphael good afternoon thank you for having us uh Rafael gari here with glavovic Studio we are the architect for the project we're based in Fort Lille Florida um not to repeat what has been said already the the need for this has been explained and we were tasked with that simple need of we need to connect these structures uh protected from the elements and create some continuity and a better guest experience what we did encounter when we started looking at this is that both buildings are from a different era and therefore probably I would speculate because of flood regulations they are a different height so we have about a foot and a half roughly of difference between the both floors which uh looked like a big challenge in the beginning but it became an opportunity because as you probably know we have to make this accessible we cannot use steps and the idea of a a slope surface in this case is technically not a ramp by code um allowed us to prolong the experience um like it or not we would have to walk instead of 10 feet across the alley closer to 40 feet now and the challenge was well how do we do that in an alley which currently even though the these buildings are interesting architecturally the alleys are not the most interesting part of them so what do we do to create a a good experience for the the guests and this is what we came up with um it's a rhythmical structural element that happens every two feet at night those would be accentuated with linear LED lights that will hopefully uh accentuate that Rhythm and and provide an interesting experience uh and evoke something on the user uh whatever it makes you think of could be an old wood plane fuselage or the belly of mck whatever mood you're in um the proposed material is glue laminated beam or cross laminated Timber whichever way you want to call it they're similar uh we've been uh looking into that as an organic sustainable material that is renewable our firm and our client have a commitment to to these types of approaches uh to buildings this will be floating in the alley it would not make contact with the ground uh it will be held by Steel tubes uh that attach to the current structures uh accentuating its its unique sculptural uh playful uh form and intent um the top of it is going to protect us from protect the users from the rain via a polycarbonate cover that would allow the passage of light while uh avoiding water getting in the ends are open as you can see this is not an air conditioned space and we're looking at laminated glass guards at the ends that will um try to be as invisible as possible um the drainage is going to occur via hidden gutters we we're we're trying to make those invisible and the floor material if we can move uh to the next sure oh that's a clicker thank you very This Is A View From the interior um again this is a slope surface not a ramp technically uh just because of the low slope which allows a not to have to introduce guards and handrails uh and B to create an an effortless uh experience uh people are going to come with luggage uh there might be elderly people who knows so we wanted to make it as effortless as possible so the experience would be to enjoy the structure rather than watching your step this is a material plette uh that is trying to show some of what inspired us um we see different uses of glue laminator wood the one picture on the top right uh shows glue laminated wood with a uh translucent roofing material which then takes us to a closeup of what we're currently thinking as that material on the lower left uh the floor we're thinking about an epoxy for several reasons uh epoxy is very mechanically and chemically resilient for an exterior material is going to see a lot of traffic luggage uh carts from staff uh all of that was important uh in the election of the floration of this modest between the two structures uh this is a cross-section from our plans uh illustrating what rapael was just explaining to us uh with the uh laminate structure and the glass panel uh glass PL panel guard rails on the ends and then of course open otherwise open also I noted uh as Raphael was explaining to us the floating nature uh that it would not touch uh the uh the uh the grade uh this is a a final rendering here as you can see um as Debbie mentioned uh this is going to go from uh kind of an uninteresting and perhaps a actually an issue of safety really kind of a dark area this will now be lighted with eyes on this area with people uh connecting between the two buildings in a much more safe well-lighted and and really visually interesting uh addition here so with that uh we uh this is this is a this is a gorgeous rendering here too uh looking straight down you can see uh the lighting effect of this really unique design just wanted to note that before uh come in for a landing and respectfully request your favorable action on a certificate of appropriateness for this modest but uh really important for our operations project and we're here with for any questions I have Raphael here for any design questions and uh again we thank staff for all the assistance and help thank you so much thank you um are there any questions from board members for the applicant well first off congratulations Uma will now have something that we have to name because uh the Betsy has an egg that connects its building so you have to have a name for that um in looking at this I had a couple of concerns I mean I think it's a great design but I have to look at sometimes the practicality and that is the fact I'm a little concerned about somebody crawling underneath this and getting stuck homeless people may be deciding to sleep underneath it um I'm concerned also about U with it being open that somebody can climb up over and then get into your buildings that you might not want to have come into your building and the other thing is um with Ada shouldn't there be a railing on that ramp those are my only concerns thank you yeah I'll start with a last question because it's the easier one to understand because it's stay code um under Ada um under Ada ramp is considered uh anything 1 and2 up to 1 and 12 and that introduces the need for guard rails and hand rails and and certain types of Landings um we are at a 5% slope which is one per which is outside of what is considered a ramp technically it's a slope surface it's a very subtle slope therefore what we will be adding is a curb that separates both inclined planes to avoid obviously anybody tripping correct we will be doing that but we are looking we're not looking to have handrails or gers they're not required and I don't think quite frankly they're necessary because it's again a very gentle slope um to the concern about people crawling on underneath it um it is it's not going to allow for a lot of room uh it's it's quite close to the ground that being said a small enough person could potentially do that we can explore ways of securing this yeah it could be via um some sort of boundary that is that is um compatible design it could be landscaping or or or something of that sort and the other thing was the you know the fact you climb you can climb up over the railing and you know get into the building you know like when you come to the lobby you've got people there to front desk and whatever to see people that are coming in um all of a sudden now you've got this area that it doesn't have a security guard or anything like that there somebody be climbing up over and getting into your building you might not really want to have do that are you going to have some sort of a card system you know that that that a guest or or your employee has to you know click in to be able to get into the building sure we're not quite at that level design but that's a very valid concern of just my experience as a somebody who's design hotels and use hotels as you well know once you get through front Des they give you a card right and I would expect that to be connected to these doors and restrict access to anybody that doesn't have one just like an elevator does right currently in hotels most of the time those are my question I have a question for the designer what is between the glue lamp portals along the length of it uh structurally structurally or the finish what are you going to see when you're walking through this because the glue lamp portals are two feet on Center I think right correct so what's between them we're looking at a polycarbonate roof that's the roof if I'm walking along the length of it Str sides structurally speaking you mean I'm sorry if I'm not understanding question no issue no problem um um you're looking at the two buildings on either side you're looking at blank walls they're not blind they have Windows but yeah they're they're they're just stucko clad walls uh with not a lot going on for them so just all you're doing is putting portals every two feet along the length and they're undulating yes you you wouldn't really see the walls much uh you would see the end of the alley uh on either side as you look forward as you look sideways yeah you would see the stule from the walls I guess is what you're asking so it's open and there's actual ventilation coming in from all sides correct not from all sides it would be from the short sides from the sides if you will and along the length correct from the ends and from the sides not from the sides because it it it abuts directly against the existing Hotel so there would be no possibility of of ventilation through the long sides only the short sides which are about 10 ft width okay all right I'll take that thank you go ahead yes um so the polycarbonated cover that is happening above the glum portals are they on top or in [Music] between yeah that that's a good question it's something we uh studied when doing it and speaking also with vendors that specializ in CLT um we thought that the the cleanest and probably most coste effective solution and that also would accomplish the visual goals that we have would be to span this material across the beams as to avoid having to waterproof and Flash at every joint right um what that does also now we have to think about how we maintain because now it looks just like a like an arch right correct without the so we are probably going to slot those is what we're thinking and and and continue the organic forms up top although it it it might not be worth it to do that what we might do is have the end pieces where the the the polycarbonate stops have these organic uh and playful shapes and then it just be an arch on top because you're not really going to experience it once here inside right so yeah these are these it's a good question it's something we we discussed internally and the rainwater how are you collecting that if you have an arch then you have more to collect correct yeah so we're looking at two two beams uh on the long sides on both bottom and top we are looking at um I don't know if it made it to the presentation but there's a detail where we have a gutter that uh lives on top of those steel beams and will have a slight slope to each of the ends and then it will drain directly in what today is a gravel alley that has drainage structures uh so we didn't we wouldn't have to do any infrastructure it's the same amount of water we're just rerouting it to uh to to our needs I was going to ask you something skip my memory now when he comes back I'll has to talk again thank Lindsay good right yeah so those beams that you referred to that will be supporting the portals what supporting the beams yes uh they would be supported by the current structure uh we we have a structure engineer that has helped us during this conceptual phase and he expressed confidence that with the information we have about the existing buildings and the nature of what's there he's confident that these could be anchored in a straight forward manner to the existing building without having to do anything expensive or you know crazy in any way and the floor the ramp that's a slab it's a concrete slab and what supporting the floor if I mean if it's heavy it cannot be supported by the portals right right um it potentially won't be a concrete slab it might be framing we're not quite there yet to be frank we didn't think of concrete laab would be appropriate it might be Framing and detail the epoxy in a in a way that will protect that from the elements for for a long time but probably not concrete and that would be supported by the existing buildings as well it would be so there would be a framing that would support the the to say stitious boards so let's go from the top to the bottom epoxy finish cementitious board light gauge metal frame Fring structure that will then span into the two tubes along the long sides of the buildings that's conceptually what we're looking at okay so no thank you very much I mean the design was very pretty I mean I I I thought about the bats is to they have the orbit I'm so happy to have another element another iconic element on the beach so what you have to name yeah yeah worth thinking about that um before you before you go back I just wanted to ask you another question um so you were me you mentioned both glue lambs and CLT how are you going to make that decision and what where do you think you're going to land on that because they're very different products yes we are Consulting with a couple of different vendors um and it's all going to come down to what's the best for our climate hot humid which is not where you see most of these products um but they can be used we've done some research is going to come down to budget and what the best product for our climate and our application is uh I wish I had a a straightforward answer of what exactly we're going to use at this time but we really don't I don't want to okay I don't want to lie um but it it's the look that we're going for and the fact that it's a renewable material is attractive to us right ask you want you want to ask something I have one more question because I'm trying to understand this on um a16 you show the structure if you look at a16 and it looks like to me dra to understand what you're doing here on a23 it shows every portal flush with a wall on the ends right at that particular section that you're taking you're shown the portal oh that one yes in line no uh 16 if we look at uh a16 for a moment the right the rendering a16 sheet a16 it shows the frames away from the wall yes that is correct at the point where the walkway ends on both sides the yeah it tapers it right doing that the the portals will continue for an extent they're just decorative at that point and they're they they they taper inwards got to create a certain effect again it's it's uh the fusure L SL skeleton effect it tapers at the ends um we thought it was attractive visually to do it that way even though those last few ribs don't have a functional they're more more artistic than anything else and so in this rendering a16 for example we would we would have to Envision some kind of uh some kind of um gutter system some kind of ring collection system that you would see on either side on either side right and well the the gutter will stop at the last let me try to say this in words the gutters will stop where the floor stops because past that the only thing we're going to have is floating ribs so water will go through them so there will be no need for water collection on those last tapered ribs so so rainwater comes down from the top obviously and then goes over the sides I thought it was going to kind of collect at the end of the polycarbonate panels but but you're saying it goes and the polycarbon panels don't go all the way down to the floor what you're saying is correct but for the ex so let's say I don't remember the numbers let's say the walkable surface is 27 feet long the actual structure is 35 the xra is whatever that divided by two is at each end those ends are open to the elements oh completely open got where it's closed is the 27 ft where people walk and that's where the gutter is and that last rib on each side okay will go above the gutter so you won't see it hopefully we do a good job in detailing that from this okay and then I noticed that the windows on the second floor of I assume it's the west building are a little maybe I'm on the well I'm I'm just on A4 I'm on that same on a16 basically that same rendering that's up on the screen um so the windows on the right side in that image on the second floor seem a little closer to your um a little closer to your structure you how you I guess I'm my the spirit of my question is asking about the making sure that we're preserving the historic buildings and not damaging the historic buildings how are you U making sure that water doesn't kind of penetrate or is close to those windows or how are you addressing yeah what what we did what we did for that was to make sure that the gutter is at least a foot below any window sill and and that is the case as currently designed because that a foot is plenty to allow us to detail that properly okay yeah yes okay lizie so I have a question I'm looking at um A8 the existing site conditions and then A9 the street view which seems to be essentially one with and one without um the drawing are we losing the eyebrow between the buildings no we we are not okay it it it interrupts once it turns so you're looking at the eyebrow it it it turns it turns for a certain amount and then it stops okay because the existing site conditions which I I'm is that just a photo the existing site conditions A8 that's not a rendering that's a photo okay sorry yes this this so so I apologize I'm looking at a29 which is a demolition drawing and I have to take back what I said I apologize we are demolishing the eyebrow after a certain point and as needed uh however on each side most importantly on the street side that eyebrow will continue to turn for 23' 4 in and it will stop once our new proposed structure commences so yes we will demolish a portion of the eyebrow in the alley only let me look at this I'll come back to you sorry go ahead I have another question on the floor plan 820 there is it shows like the continuous ramp going around but then on the section on 824 it shows steps did you revise that to be a continuous ramp or the steps are still there good question there is both options if you cuz the floor P doesn't show steps so that's why I'm trying to understand what's what well it it does if you see the elevation so if you look at your floor plan to the left of the plan the floor plan to the left so the one you were mentioning 820 right right so let's say you're coming from the bottom of the plan right through the double doors mhm and you're you're there at 9 ft which is matching the the current building cor correct you you could at your choice if you're able-bodied and you don't have luggage and you want a shortcut you could go to the left and go up five and a half inches then turn go another five and five inches and get to 10 for zero and a half and then do a third step and get then go to 10 s and a half but CS are not drawn in this drawing I should I see the elevation marks but I don't see well there there's lines right not on my plan okay I'm I'm I do I do have them I'm sorry I you have okay you have I'll be honest with you we could have used the symbol of steps the you know International symbol of there's a step here printing they disappear but there are no lines in here it just shows like a continuous ramp to the right when you go to the right you would you would go through the slop okay so it's our print does not have that maybe maybe they were very but still your question is is a good one you do have the option of using what are very large steps okay so you could go kind of straight and go to the door you can go the whole way around and it's your choice gotcha yeah it's just that we don't we are missing those lines okay so I had a sidebar conversation over here um so and my question about the eyebrow was okay so I I saw the demolition plan so I see what you're saying is that the proposal on the demolition plan is to bring the eyebrow or keep the eyebrow as existing um which is a reconstruction in the first place um so it's not you know historic um according to Debbie that was the sidebar conversation I had over here um and then this structure sits back behind that and at the point where the structure starts um you will then demolish the eyebrow and move so and I think what was confusing me is that in the rendering that's AO I guess it looks like the eyebrow is totally gone and I don't know that I have a perspective one way or the other although it's interesting to me that the eyebrow is going to extend in front of so I don't know how wide the eyebrow is I could probably look at the plans and find out but let's just say a foot for sake of discussion here so you're going to have this concrete eyebrow that's sticking out of foot in front of this beautiful structure that you're proposing I don't know that I have pinion one way or the other or what you can or can't do I just wanted to point that out that what we're seeing in the rendering is not actually what we're going to end up getting um do you follow what I'm pointing out here okay I do I do there could potentially be an inaccuracy in that particular model that was used for that particular rendering it's possible I can't tell you the to mind will yeah I mean inaccuracy happen I just wanted to point out that I don't know that subject to whatever staff says you can or can't do I don't know that it wouldn't be the better idea to actually demol the eyebrow all the way to the front of the building never it's never in front of the structure at all correct because otherwise you have this you know front of the structure I I my first impulse is to agree with that if if it's possible again I don't yeah that's my thought shows which is what it shows I just yeah threw me off no it's a great great point I was wondering Debbie um could you for all of our benefit um have the Side Bar with us um and that you know that decision is up to the bll I don't feel very strongly either way but um Miss levels correct that oh man I don't know when it was maybe 20 17ish um that portion of the building was approved to be totally demolished so what you see along the side and that wraps around the rear is all of reconstruction that's accurate so there's no original material um of the of the building there it's it's Circa 2018 that was the original design of the building yes correct I don't have a strong opinion either way about where the eyebrow is retained and where it's removed I mean I do think along um 18th Street it's important and I you know I often like to see things turn the corner that's always a nice detail when Architects um respect the corners of of these buildings um but I don't have a strong opinion either way so if I me yes please um so I I tend to agree about having it turn the corner I just it's hard to see what that looks like in front of the structure and I I don't know if it's something that's worth holding this up on that um if I if I might add maybe the compromise is to turn the corner but not go all the way to where the structure is interrupt so you still have a turn of the corner but because of the benefit of perspective it's not really going to block that much of the view unless you're standing right in front of it okay and then um my next comment was going to be and I will allow our experts over here to correct me if I'm wrong or The Architects sitting on the other side of me but the eyebrow I mean apart from the symetry and the design aspect of it the Practical like idea behind the eyebrow was to provide shading into these buildings and into these windows you know that's why they sit right above the windows is to provide shad is that right that's my understanding um so from a practical perspective I don't think this these windows need a lot of shade back here um and he gets in the alley and it's kind of building right next door to it so so from that perspective um and if if Debbie has no strong um a staff have no strong opinion one way or the other um then I think um you know I would probably be supportive of it having it turn the corner but I just you know I don't see it sitting right in front of the structure as being the greatest idea from a um aesthetic standpoint you can see what that might look like on a26 on those elevations they kept in that case they because they're using a different model they kept it in so you can see it in front like a little Block in front of the um structure I think that's still a trimmed it's shorter if you notice and then the no I think the original is shorter yeah if you look at the existing you'll see it's not the same as the one near the roof it's a little you may be right to me it looks like though that it might be perspective because you look at the very end back here it looks like they're connected by one piece and unless that is running at an angle then it's the same width all the way on both of them yeah so I guess our our all right well let's um let's continue with this and I think we've um perhaps exhausted our questions for the for the applicant and um you guys have responded thank you very much and now we have board disclosures ask disclosure I have met with the attorney uh prior okay uh to inform me of what upcoming item that's the extent of it okay okay thank you um anyone in the audience please come forward if you wish to comment um anyone on Zoom please raise your hand I see uh one uh member of the public on Zoom Mitch novic hi Mitch hey you hear me yes we can you hear me yes hello hello Mitch yeah there's a little delay this is for the IT people there's a little delay uh from when I unmute silent for 20 seconds and then I hear you again might want to look into that Mitch novic again I uh am in I am in support of the rear connection of these two assets and look forward to Travers in the space one day thank you okay thank you uh I see no other members of the public wishing to comment okay very good then um any board comments that would lead us to a to a vote any further discussion do you think we should continue this just to get more information with the two two different materials I mean we've we've had a lot of things that we've sort of I we're I think we're all in favor of it but we're just don't quite have all the information that we should have and if we continue it to get the answers or we can simply leave it up to staff that's I mean those are two our two choices I think yeah go Lindsay so um I don't know that I have a strong opinion one way or the other as to continuing it or you know improving and then allowing you leaving things up to staff um that said I know Ry you asked a question about security and I'm still concerned about that I don't know that you've addressed my concerns I don't know if that's necessarily within our purview but I it I do have that concern that's outstanding um and I know obviously from this has to be an open structure um but that's just a concern that I have and I would have liked to have heard more about that to understand how that's going to be addressed and you know do do you mean the swipe card security or do you mean like the baby crawling under the under the baby crawling under I'm not totally clear how because as if I understand it correctly there's just the glass that goes up a portion of the way how do we prevent people from coming in and over that you know I mean I wonder about that in my own building right how do I get people keep people from going over a 4 foot fence um but uh but you know that's just a concern that I have so let me maybe ask you Debbie if like how you um given rais concerns how you know is this is this something that you think staff could address um given some board Direction I think underneath the structure it would be a relatively simple fix um they could they could put some Landscaping put a little bit of a a screen you know you see them in call spaces in vents all the time time just something simple I think that could be effectively done pretty simply um I think with the with the security of someone climbing in um I think it would be somewhat challenging um because it is off the ground and it is quite a way to kind of climb over I also think the lighting if the lighting is on all evening that that is the the biggest deterrent and the most helpful deterrent even if you don't have a barrier or a fence typically people don't want to be seen if they're doing something illegal which trespassing would be illegal in this case um so I think the lighting is for me the best security device um now that would have to be maintained and the the hotel would need to you know be consistently making sure that that was operational um but other than that it is more of an operational issue for the hotel to you know figure out what their needs are going to be they may not know until after the bridge is open um if they see any issues but I think at the ground level certainly some you know hostile landscape and and some type of you could even put a screen buffer so animals as well wouldn't get under there um which can cause all sorts of problems so I'm happy to work with the applicant uh at a staff level if the board is comfortable with that um and and what about with relation to materiality uh what it's going to be made of and also how the rain drainage is actually going to actually really work and even lighting which we haven't seen or really addressed the where the lighting is and how it's going to I think they they showed us the concept of the integrated lighting into the system which is you know modern technology but you know that is widely available now um I think in terms of the materiality what we would be looking for is the visual effect um we're not going to dictate to the architect or the engineer what the most appropriate material is um we would just be confirming that whatever material is finally chosen that it creates a very similar visual effect than than what was presented today okay and on the issue of the I of the eyebrow so of the eyebrow right now I mean the path the path of least resistance in terms of the appropriateness criteria would be to move forward with um the design as proposed which is to maintain the area I was just looking at that elevation of the building um I think I don't necessarily have any concerns as long as the eyebrow turns the corner and I've I noticed there's one window and then beyond that window there's an fpnl kind of closet I don't think there's any need to create um any sort of overhead protection above the fpnl but I I would ask that maybe that it turns the corner just just to cover that one window which would also be historically appropriate and it was often done with buildings um in the 1930s and 40s trying to save money they would just you know turn it over one Bay um and I think that would be perfectly appropriate and I am happy to work with the team uh at a staff level on that so okay no I was just going to add that um I think I mean I don't have a problem having staff following up in all those decisions with the applicant but if you feel like there is a significant change on the intention of the design then to bring back to us because as they say the devil or God is in the detail and then as you start working out some of the questions we ask about the support the gutter the roof it may end up changing more than we anticipate and then in what at that case I think it should come back to us absolutely and are you okay with with that kind of suggestion okay so does can I uh can we have a a motion and a second I'll move ask for staff as for staff recommendations um with the with the uh the I condition as Debbie just described um rounding the corner over the first window um and for materiality of the actual structure itself to be worked at at staff level but if there's any significant changes at design for it to come back before us does that seem accurate okay I'll move it okay let me call the role Miss Camargo hi Mr Erick yes Mr Breslin yes uh Mr Meyer yes Miss level yes Mr Stewart yes congratulations thank you thank you so much thank you so much we appreciate all the feedback thank you yes we lunch was delivered we have one more item which is a preliminary evaluation so not sure what the board you want to grab your food and then we can can we eat during the presentation yes talk you mind problem just your mouth closed but it's okay so I was going to hand out the um do the van white and hand out the um letters of support from Mi and bid yeah that's fine no I think you should I'm going to actually so you can pick either of these podiums that's good e than you guys exactly exactly sh what happen they' gotow the AC just got okay Mr Len I think we're ready to go um the next application on the agenda and our final application is HPB 24608 this is 94 7 Lincoln Road also known as 1657 Michigan Avenue um an application has been filed requesting a preliminary valuation for exterior facade modifications um this building has has kind of a good amount of history with this board um it is a contributing building it was built in two phases um quite early in the city's development actually the original construction date was 1924 um it was later renovated in 1938 um significantly renovated and the the exterior design was changed um in 1938 since that time additional modifications have been made to the structure over time um and the applicant is here before you today for what we call a preliminary valuation this is something that the um Land Development regulations permit as a non-binding review um an opportunity for the board to to review a proposed project um the level of detail is not going to be the same as it would be if this was a formal application but it gives um applicants an opportunity to really understand board the board's Direction so in hopes that they will come before you with a formal application with more of these details flushed out um staff has actually met with um this team on several occasions um we are very enthusiastic about a new extremely high quality tenant on Lincoln Road um this would be for a restaurant tenant um the team has very successful restaurants in Los Angeles um and they also have a successful restaurant in the city of Miami so when we first um discussed this particular building obviously this building has some issues it's been vacant for quite some time it has had an increasingly uh negative impact on this portion of lincol Road um as we discussed earlier today I think we're all very much looking forward to the Lincoln Road master plan and reinvigorating uh Lincoln Road which would also include filling some of these vacancies up with with high quality tenants um which would be toward the vision of the city um to monit to renovate and reinvigorate uh Lincoln Road um as previously discussed this building and we outlined it more specifically in our evaluation has been modified several times uh over time um there was recently not recently maybe five years ago or so a project um that was approved by this board which was a very significant intervention that included a large new addition in substantial demol demolition um this current applicant actually um is proposing to do a much lower level of intervention um basically retaining the entire building and creating a new restaurant venue within the building um the most significant um portion of the building that the applicant would be asking to modify would really be the Michigan Avenue side um this particular restaurant concept which the applicant will get into a little bit further does require a substantial level of privacy on the interior um through our discussions the applicant desired to have o opacity on the Windows along Michigan Avenue which of course is not something that staff would be able to review administratively um because administratively we would be required to either restore for the building back to its original and keep a a decent amount of transparency from the sidewalk into the space um but you know we're trying to balance good development historic preservation and the ren you know the revitalization of Lincoln Road and we do think this is a really good opportunity um to do a low intervention project which would repair the building um this building has had some minor repairs over the past couple years but when I say minor ex the bare minimum has been done to this building um there are some structural issues with this building um and to find an applicant that is willing to work with the owner of the building to get this building repaired get this building in a state where it can be reoccupied um is very important to Historic preservation staff and in the city um so we were really open to any kind of creative ideas I think they're going to present some options where um they would actually recall some of the original interior finishes of the building which was um a very significant pecky Cyprus um interior and maybe bring that out to the storefront windows um as part of their New Concept so staff is open um I think the applicant who has not submitted any sort of uh historic preservation applications in the city before really wants to get an understanding of what this board um may be willing to approve um should they come back to this board so with that I'll turn it over to Mr Lin and I am available for any questions yeah please this is a question for Debbie um in your uh summary you mentioned that um at one point you you talked about a potential F increase and I just wanted you to highlight for us What mechanisms uh that the applicant would have for achieving that F increase am I reading that correctly or unfortunately that's see that's that is the that is the wrong page oh really I see that page got stapled on the because it references Michigan on page three of three and then it says if however the F of the site was increased I think you were referring I think you're referring to it as a hypothetical in terms of the U parking um the offsite oh okay I apologize um um okay so initially when we met with the applicant the applicant was also going not as as part of this but was also going to be because this technically would be a change of use to a new restaurant the code does say that if there's a change of use in F added to the property they have F they could add F if they were proposing a new addition which currently we were not aware that they're doing that um then a change of use would require a loading space waiver they would be required to provide at least one onsite loading space for a change of use that also added additional square footage um if they do not add additional straight square footage which we don't believe they are going to be then the loading space waiver is not required so we don't believe they're going to if they come back with a formal application that they're going to be required to even request that if they weree to request that say on the roof they needed to to construct a 500 square ft back of house area if they were going to have seating on the roof that would then trigger the loading requirement at that point based on our knowledge of this site over the years we would be supportive of that type type of waiver because in order to get loading on the site they'd have to demolish a significant portion of the building which we would not um recommend so yeah I apologize for the confusion of that any other questions good to go all right so good afternoon Mr chairman board member staff Michael Larin 200 South Boulevard here representing the hwood group the applicant when is Brian tol co-founder and president Adam Corral VP of Business develop M John Sophia is our designer founder of built Inc he's appearing via Zoom from California and Paul Savage my colleague you know Lincoln Road is actually one of my favorite places in Miami Beach I talk on and on about it whenever I'm lucky enough to have an application that somehow I enter say a Lincoln Road and it's just walking up and down it you know weekends as it gets busier and busier now it just it's still exciting for me um and I think now Lincoln Road is waking up from a long Slumber I think there are bright spots that are cropping up in different parts of the road you have Andre car de red it's a famous restaurant from Bogota that's coming at 455 Lincoln Road across in J Pauls MAA has expanded just recently W won an award for one of those beautiful restaurants in the United States then you have salt and straw which is quickly come my favorite ice cream go-to place I love it dearly once there there once a week are they paying you for that and then you come to our property 947 Lincoln Road where they propose or our CL proposed to put Mr Nice Guy one of their many restaurant brands that have done quite well they've already successfully brought theila to Brickle to much a claim it's open up with a bang and continued to pack them in there and it's an exciting experience to go there in my view this is a perfect application for you all to consider the building is not well and an approval and application here will certainly uh renovate the entire building keeping the level intervention very low on a macro level I believe this restaurant alone will rejuvenate the Western of Lincoln Road bringing in likeminded tenants in the general area once they see the success of Mr Nice Guy others will follow that's pretty common uh can the presentation be brought up thank you uh next slide thank you so as you can see the property is a single lot located on the north side of Lincoln Road and the east side of Michigan Avenue the property has a long Frontage along Michigan and a short Frontage along Lincoln Road next Slide the property was originally constructed in 1924 as Debbie said and designed by William F Brown and the Mediterranean Revival style of architecture the original 24 design consists of four equal-sized Bays along Lincoln Road and 12 along Michigan Avenue next slide in 1938 what happened was the med Revival facade was hidden by Art Deco facade that was designed by one of our most famous Architects El Murray Dixon next slide then every property every building here is not an empty building it contains a cultural history and here you have the ice box cafe there I remember standing in line sometimes in my shag grin and waiting for an hour or so to get in for brunch on the weekend to the ice box cafe the best cake in America this is a label bestowed on it by Oprah Winfrey and I'm not so culturally ignorant to know that that is not Oprah but that is her best friend Gail King just we didn't we couldn't find a picture of Oprah here at the Ice boox cafe next slide as you all know it opened up in 198 1998 it thrived in that location it moved to c of Harbor in 2013 unfortunately a recently closed in April next slide again the lot size here is 7500 Square F feet is located fingle Park local historic district and as Debbie said it is a contributing structure next slide and as deby also mentioned the existing condition is not great here um there's chain link fence with a screen there because there are certain chunks of Stucco that are falling from the arched Windows um and of course a building in this condition does need some help and that's why we're here because we will renovate this building next slide this is an important a remaining example of the early commercial buildings so remember this is built in the 1920s and it has survived close to 100 years now so it's one of the best examples we have of a commercial building that's lowrise like this and the Fingal Park local historic district next slide so this will be the new location for the proposed M uh Mr nce guy restaurant is proposing a full renovation of the structure the existing historic Cypress interior material will be matched with interior window paneling along Michigan Avenue there'll be a show kitchen on the southern portion of the building bear in mind this is a high-end restaurant Design By An established well-known responsible op operator with a proven track record of success and one of the benefits of uh doing a lot of Outreach like we did with this application is that we went to the advocacy Committee of mdpl and they suggested rein uh recreating the awnings that were there and these awnings are not the particular type of awnings these awnings are inset into the arch Windows which is a little bit different than the typical awning so we're going to take that committee suggestion and with yall's permission we' like to recreate these awnings up and down they'll also soften the facade and give much needed shade up and down that Corridor uh next slide and next slide so again I'm here joined today Brian toll and Adam Corral they both from hwood group and John Sofi but right now I'm going to turn over to Brian and he's gonna walk you all uh through who he is and who his company is thank you all thank you for having me I'm Brian tol um so my partner John Turan and I founded this company almost 20 years ago um in about 2006 we were young guys who had the goal of opening a nightclub together in La um and that was called the hwood hence the hwood group and as we've gotten older and um experienced more in Hospitality we've really changed the company from one that has nightclubs and bars to restaurants and private members clubs I think we're most well known for the Delila brand um we have one in La we have one at the win in Las Vegas and then we just opened one in December here in brickl which has been off to a fantastic start can we do the next there we go um and the nice guy was our first restaurant we opened in LA in about 2014 so almost 10 years ago um and it's really just been a tremendous success ever since we opened we have one in Dubai um and we think Miami is really the perfect next location although we grew up in La I know Miami very well um my mom is from Miami she grew up in Surfside my grandfather was actually the manager at the fountain blue in the 1950s and the Shea bon bon so um I've found memories of coming to Miami and coming to Lincoln Road as a kid we used to come every year to see my grandparents so know the area well know sort of what it used to be and what it what I think we can add to the street these are pictures of Delila as you see very highend um nice finishes sort of a modernday supper club and then the next slide is the nice guy um in La we have about 4,000 square fet and it's really helped to revitalize the area we're on laena and at the time the it was sort of a rundown part of town it's the edge of West Hollywood um restaurants were all moving to Beverly Hills and Hollywood and I think we stepped in and really changed the dynamic now you have catch steak across the street um you have eppp you have a bunch of restaurants that have sort of come after we've come I think what we do best is draw the right crowd and the right people and very presswork you all for having us I think we can probably go to the next slide so this is a Rend or a picture of our nice guy in Los Angeles again as Brian mentioned we opened this in August of 2014 so getting close to our 10 year anniversary um what you can see really exemplifies the the onus of what nice guy is it is a very intimate very low-key um homage to you know the the the old school Mafia bars of the the 50s and 60s and the mid-century modern style of uh of design um it's basically meant to be kind of your home away from home home you know a place that you can escape and enjoy you know some classic red sauce American Italian uh dishes here um you know we've done an amazing job of uh restoring what was a very dilapidated restaurant space in LA and turned it into something that's been a staple ever since um and as you can see actually the roof and a lot of the design elements within the nice guy call for individual Slots of wood all along the room when we did some Discovery into the building on Lincoln row we actually found that the original roof and ceiling was made of a a regional local pecky Cyprus Wood um and we plan on restoring it using that wood all over um it just so happens to be that it was like the perfect fit and looks and looks for us too so here's another image of you know kind of just shows a bit how how we do curate our design and everything is very much over the top but also very understated with the nice guy you know our Delila design is very much in your face it's it's that Roaring 20s you know Gatsby feel where everything is flashy and along the same lines but different nice guy you know while the the touches are all very high-end and very bespoke it does bring you down a little bit into some bit of a more intimate experience um very candle lit very dark um hence the need for a bit of that window shade covering that we've spoken about I guess my time is up the hook how much time would you like I'm good three minutes two minutes I'm good I 20 a minute three minutes minutes yeah um yeah good you have M I'll talk fast uh so basically that would be kind of our interior feel and we obviously wanted to activate Lincoln Road uh so we came up with an amazing idea our first ever it's going to be a show kitchen really um on the Lincoln Road side big windows for the for the passer bu to see and how the production of our pastas and pizzas which are all made from scratch um go into our restaurant so it gives the Lincoln Road you know passer by a chance to see into the the finer workings of of what goes into what we do daily um and here around the corner on the Michigan Avenue side just again you know preliminary renderings which don't do not show the awnings that were discussed with the historic uh design League um last week uh we' be we're very excited to actually include them into the next uh renderings for the for the real Hearing in September but uh yeah here you can kind of see an idea of where we're going with the Michigan roadside you know bringing back the windows to life removing the boarding that's up there currently and introducing the pey Cyprus on the interior side which again we've proposed doing something that's easily removable you know if in case this ever gets to another tenant down the road they could remove it thus not affecting the historical presence of the windows themselves next slide yeah yeah we will be as we mentioned the awnings that they suggested to us from the historic look we're very excited to add those in because they're beautiful and we actually wanted them in the first place but we figured less is more come to you guys with uh you know our plan and your recommendations and see where you can go from there yeah I think that's all for me appreciate your time thank you Adam so just a summary this is Preservation of the existing contributing structure with the approval of this application we're going to highlight the pecky Cyprus as a part of our interior design elements and this will be one more exciting dining video along Lincoln Road which is now coming into its own again I'm happy to say um and the show kitchen is something I don't think i' I've seen on Lincoln Road or any of the restaurants so I think that's going to be something Innovative and then of course hwood group is just their Superstars and what they do so very happy to have them show interest in Lincoln Road at this point next slide and again we've done a lot of Outreach we have the support of Lincoln Road bid thankfully we went to the May Beach Chamber of Commerce Board of Governors we have their support and um we're contining our Outreach to all folks and we're just very happy to be here for you all today we came before you because we're proposing something Innovative and before we took another step we would like your blessing before we go forward so that's it great thank you very much Michael um I think we're not going to do disclosures because this is we're not voting on anything anything that's correct okay perfect then uh let's have a public comment okay um anyone in the audience please come forward and raise your hand on Zoom should I wait for Mitch he'll come in later you me to raise my hand yes I I can S I don't think it's necess but raise your right hand do you swear the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth IA thank you so thank you for your time I'm ly Stern with officers at 690 Lincoln Road I wear several hats including chairing the Lincoln red business improvement district uh but I'm not here representing the bid because you've already got a letter of support I'm not involved in this deal I don't represent either party I'm not being compensated for appearing I'm not a broker in this deal I'm addressing you today strictly as a business leader and more importantly as a resident of our beautiful city this building has had vacant for over 5 years when our commission in my opinion rightly rejected Walgreens in this location it was with the hope and promise to our community that a more appropriate use in tenant would fill this space nice guy is that tenant it fills the promise made by the commission that if we're patient a tenant that activates the space we come and Elevate the road and better serve our community I believe that this use does that the building that nice guy is working on is problematic and that it requires a significant Capital impr significant amount of capital Improvement that few retailers could make the renovation will take millions of dollars and it will require either a tenant or a landlord to make the investment um and a landlord would only make the investment if it had a credit tenant which allows you to assume the debt those tenants tend to be the the national credits tend to to be uh tenants that most of our community is is now beginning to push back on the big box tenants traditionally found in malls nice guy is a much better alternative for all of us and continues the upward trajectory that the mall is currently on this is a fine dining establishment that's consistent with the REM merchandising of Lincoln Road that's ongoing it also provides the benefit of an operator with Global Outreach to be certain this is a restaurant and a lounge upscale and fine dining not a club or a club or a club Stant I've had the benefit of booking the delil in Vegas for our corporate party which we do at the national at the international Council of shopping centers uh we did it last year we did it this year it's the go-to place it's an elevated dining experience I need two more minutes um further as Lincoln Road evolves and we seek to to democratize the offerings the nice Sky would be a great add to the mix it has the additional benefit of announcing to tenants that that Miami Beach is a welcoming place to do business to spend time and money and to go through the various boards all of which are necessary and all of which provide our community the necessary guard rails for responsible vetting of use and for design and for preservation and I appreciate and applaud what they've done coming here preliminarily and working with with staff and with the city and coming in with a preliminary proposal to get your feel it's a perfect accompaniment to the to the ongoing development that's occurring on the East End of the Road North from the Ritz Carlton to the Shore Club uh to the Rosewood to the bulgary to the Aman residences we have our city is being lifted around us by people that are coming in and spending appropriate Capital we're going through a transformative period in our city and the dining and our streets and our public spaces need to be aligned with that transformation otherwise the residents and the more upscale neighborhoods and buildings will simply enclave and not walk around and not commute and not spend their dollars and not dine and not shop in our city so this is in fact truly transformative it's also important that Lincoln Road has a great balance and as I'm sure you've all seen a Prince Street Pizza recently announced their their second store in Florida will be on Lincoln Road uh it as silly as that might sound it's super important because the democratizing of the offering to have both Mila and Oro and to be able to have Cheesecake Factory and Prince and to be able to have nice sky and Medusa which is from the meat packing District in New York currently under construction on the church's vacant lot in a building designed by Carlos Tu which will be delivered in I don't know plus or minus 18 months uh and as as Michael had had mentioned Andre carne durz from bogot we have an amazing moment going on in our city not just on Lincoln Road but in our city and and in my opinion this is an incredible addition so I thank you for your time and for your service thank you it's always hard to follow Debbie by the way it's easy to follow Michael but it's hard to follow Debbie thank you for the compliment Lyle um okay on Zoom we have Daniel Caldo hi Daniel yes hi members this is Daniel seral with Miami Design preservation League I hope you're all doing well and thank you for your service we are very excited with the process ECT that the property will be reinvigorated with a new tenant I also remember going back when it was Ice boox cafe and it's had many iterations but it has laid pretty vacant for as they mentioned five years and so um several of you I know were on the board when this was proposed to be a Walgreens there was a big battle against that which would have included significant demolition of the historic structure to be replaced with a very generic looking walg R so we were happy that did not go through uh but at the same time this building needs love and um we met with applicants we think they have a good proposal we did encourage uh to explore introduction of the awnings to the window openings as Michael mentioned and uh we're hoping that um you know this project will lead to the renovation and restoration of this very important property thank you so much thank you Daniel last but not least Mitch novic hey oh I guess you hear me can you confirm yes we can hear you God uh Mitch novic again I'm assuming you could hear me I'm getting Echoes uh I vaguely recall going to halfof brow house uh a number of times uh I believe uh that was located at this site we all know the most threatened buildings with demolition by neglect are those which are vacant this Pro this proposal is a no-brainer and on a side note I heard I've heard chatter I wouldn't put much validity into this that some young guy formally on Washington is looking for a space on Lincoln thank you okay thank you uh Mr chair I see no other members of the public wishing to comment okay so I guess we're at um kind of the end of this process would be our own comments anyone that you want to share on the um on this application well I I think it's you know a great proposal um I did go through it with Lyle and I did notice now um that they're going to keep the windows on on side street and doors but are those doors going to be usable and if not why aren't we just making it Windows do do you want to just have this be a conversation Michael do you want to if if it's a question or you guys this is more information for you and yeah because that's a good question and yeah sure um so the entrance to who Mr NY will be off of Michigan Avenue there is one uh door that's at the intersection of Michigan and Lincoln and that facade we're going to make that non-usable in some way and make it sure that people don't try to go to the handle multiple times a day um but the entrance will be off of Michigan do you want to add to that Adam uh yeah I mean the entrance as you can see from one of the renderings is towards the north side of Michigan can you put that Michigan rendering up the one we hadn't seen before because all of the windows there you go um hold on we got to get a AV AV people up the yeah the other yeah that one so yeah so what we're proposing is the door that you see that's prominent with the awning there again these are just initial renderings the full designs are not done um but that's where our front entrance would be for patrons um there are doors historically in those window window panels which again I you know we might use them during the day for deliveries and things like that um but for for guest erress that would be our main entrance it it lines a lot lines up exactly with where our valet drop off would be and all the loading there so it made the most sense for the flow and everything for patrons so you would be keeping the doors on every one of those windows yeah structurally we're not changing anything we want to obviously just refurbish and and make sure everything is you know brought to life the way it should be and look and feel with the old uh historic you know stucco and everything the only things that we're going to be changing on the windows will be on the inside and just to fixing those pey Cyprus for the for the use of privacy and this is the side where you're considering placing awnings is that okay correct correct do you have any idea of what those awnings will look like I think they're on the historic photo yeah I mean we want to keep it as as historically relevant as possible so I mean we a lot of our design is typically influenced by you know the historic nature of the sites we take we're very into incorporating that in our design so as you see they're striped that's I was saying that typically awnings are rectangular above a window but these are inset into the window which is something unique and so it's really amazing it'll be along Michigan Avenue all Michigan Avenue and there will be no awnings over the kitchen side I don't think so because I would the view of the open kitchen got it and there's no outdoor seating um n no will you be replacing the existing windows or they are relatively hurricane infect resistant my Yeah we actually haven't gotten a full chance to study that yet but if yes I mean for all intents and purposes we want to just make sure everything is the same but just new and revitalized um so I just have one comment for put for thought that since to the entrance will be along Michigan and the corner is a very prominent corner and so just to think about that corner in a way that make it appealing and so and it's obvious for the passer by that's not a d so nobody be trying to go in and I mean Corners are usually an opportunity to explore and take advantage of so just acknowledge that I think will be helpful yeah that makes sense we will uh so I'd like I know you guys are coming to us seeking advice or feedback um and I know Debbie touched on this in the recommendation but I would like for us to have like a grander conversation over the pecky Cyprus and the windows and what that looks like and why and so on and so forth um because I think that's I mean that's the big reason the largest reason why they're here and I want to make sure that obviously nothing that we say here is binding and I mean I know we're not making disclosures today but I had the opportunity to meet with one of the attorneys not Michael um I also heard a presentation um pretty similar to this on it as well um and so and I talked with Lyle about it so like I I've been following this for the um for the last several weeks um and I think that's the biggest piece of it and I just want to make sure that we really flush that out and talk about it that we understand and so they have a full I full understanding of what we're looking for what we care about when they come back I think the fact that they're leaving the windows is essential to their their business plan and their restaurant model so I think that you know this is something that is extremely important to them and is really integral into into this particular restaurant and so I think they do want some clear Direction as to the the feeling and you know potentially any um you know any detailing that you would expect to see if they do bring in application back and I'm don't want to speak for them but this is my understanding and I don't know if that necessarily came out but um the reasoning for it why it's not why why they wouldn't just choose to do curtains and therefore not to come before us because who wouldn't love to do you know open a restaurant without having to come before one of these boards right um is that that is a design element the interior and the idea is that um that it's a very dark space that's the idea that they're going for I mean I know you guys talked about it but like I feel like when I heard this before it was much more it was emphasized much more um that the idea is that it be a dark space and so um you know and also part of the reason why um the open kitchen is is very unique right to have that activation on lincol roadside but then having the darkness inside I just I don't want you guys to spin your wheels and if we're here let's let's have this discussion and talk about it and if if everyone's like good with that then I think that's that's a good sign for you and um because I I I mean you know shocker I'm I'm in favor of this I think it's a good a good addition to Lincoln Road um and a very good use of this space and as I think was it uh Daniel talked about uh you know the Walgreens that was originally proposed here several years ago um Leaps and Bounds ahead of that um and so um I'm intrigued um I really like the idea of this new operator coming in um and I think they've really um put boots on the ground to try to I don't know to try to make sure that they're doing the right thing here in the city um and we're in Miami Beach so I would like to point that out but uh beyond that yeah I know I know you know that but but um you know you know it makes a difference so looking forward to it I I was just going to add to that because I'm I'm extremely supportive of this application um but I was I was just when I saw the rendering of the pecky Cypress I was just thinking that maybe it it looks a little too like building boarded up right now in the rendering and I think maybe some articulation that makes that could um kind of reference perhaps a shutter like a wooden shutter or something like this where there's some it never has to open obviously but just that it has something that just isn't like well we just put up some boards that we had and closed the window off so I think that that would be um and it could be you know articulated around the way the Windows Form now so I don't know whether you'd see that on the inside or not but um I that's what that's what I would recommend that has some frame around it and that it has the wood yeah right go ahead sir I think what you're saying is there's going to be a little depth between the glass and and Cypress so it won't look boed up it'll look like a blind it looks right now in the rendering to me as if there is no articulation at the edge or it's if it looked a little more um kind of if it was articulated so it looked like it was designed around the window and the door combination itself like a frame it was just framed it's it's just a it's one layer more of detail just to keep people from saying like what happened here um and I mean I can assure you our designs when they are fully uh sure fully thought out for the next hearing we'll have all of that to look at and I imagine they'll be very impressive like the rest of our you know I'm sure I'm sure absolutely and and with the if you actually have the Shut if you actually have the curtains over the top that's just another layer of kind of they'll be very nice so I mean I'm sorry the um the awnings yes we've been talking about curtains no the awnings the only other thing that I was going to think that that was brought to mind with the awning um was articulating where your door your entry door is if you have these awning coming around CU right now the entry kind of that that um design on top of the it's more obvious is more obvious but it will be the least obvious which may be what you kind of want you just have a valet stand out there and it's like you know I mean again just something to think about it's obviously all these all these suggestions are duly noted and definitely will be considered for sure I mean I I am not the designer by all uh okay I'm happy to admit that we're we're very successful because I'm not the designer um but yes uh our partner John John Brian's partner John is a an art history major takes this stuff very seriously as a passion for it so I imagine he'll be very excited to uh to do that I mean for what it's worth sometimes it's nice also just to see like two options you know I at least I appreciate that I know sometimes maybe that's difficult for you tby at times but like when we just looked for example at the Lincoln Road Project you you know they they proposed you know three different potential ways that we could have gone with with the tile you know in that in that Circle in that oval and so it was pretty helpful to see the three options against each other yeah and maybe some physical um it's not that I'm opposed to the Cyprus I just it's hard I don't feel I'm sold on it if that makes sense but but but it could be because I mean you guys you know you're just showing us something right now I to understand but we might be able we might react to it differently if we're to see it in its in its form or you know a little bit more fleshed out I think to another thought I had just kind of in looking at these renderings on the Lincoln roadside is I mean I'm open-minded to this whole idea of the kitchen and it is I guess it's quite interesting like this Demo Kitchen but there is like there is something about that corner where it is it does feel I guess like to Elizabeth's point it feels you know Grand that corner and so I'm I think um I just wonder how you will be able to reference to passers by that there's something down the street you know that there's like that casatua feel that's down the street and on this corner is you know maybe and I don't I don't know how you do that and I'll be excited to see but I think I think that it shouldn't just be forgotten let me put it that way and I think that the window the kitchen demo window um has to be kind of smart you know like how how that's done I'm curious how you how you think the like that floor plan might end up looking like from the kitchen and then like what what's the next moment like inside of there I'm pretty curious about but before you get to the bar and you know the back cavernous area you know and whatnot I think you're right Brian because the corner hasn't been treated well for a long time you know if you look at Mitch's example of Hoff brow Hof brow had tinted windows it was awful you couldn't see inside then Swatch occupy the remaining area you know west of Hof bro it's never been really treated that well for at least 20 years so I'm excited about what they can do and let me just ask um cuz the the the real question about the pecky Cypress isn't the Cyprus or whatever it's just the the regulation about closing up Windows is that correct Debbie that that that's the we have to you want to articulate just a little bit more so typically um you know if this was just a a regular interior buildout um you know staff would be requiring a certain amount of transparency from the sidewalk into the space we worked with the cheesecake fact for example they were able to go through an administrative process um but in you know to miss level's Point drapery that can be opened blinds that can be opened very temporary type interior finishes can be reviewed and approved at staff level um but this type of kind of semi-permanent opaque system in the store front windows which will inhibit transparency into the space is not something we have the ability to approve so it's really the concept which is so important to their brand that this board would need to to review and approve um you know we were excited about the idea of of a py Cyprus just because this particular piece of architecture has so much history um I think I don't I have not been inside the building in several years but I think there may still be some left um in a small portion of the building but certainly originally the entire ceiling was a pecky Cyprus it it had been removed over time and I don't know what if anything is left um but I I just thought that brought a level of interest in education and you know maybe the passer by isn't going to know the difference between a teak and a Cyprus um but you know I I walk students around a lot and you know this would be an atypical situation for our commercial districts to have Windows blocked in but it would be another layer of discussion with people um to explain the history and how things adapt and and evolve and how you know the city is flexible I talk about that a lot in my um you know when I take family members or students around the city how historic preservation can provide opportunities to get really creative and be flexible and it's not always so rigid and like the the complaints we hear right um the city is really actually the opposite of that and so I think this type of project could be really cool if we could tie in you know some historical richness to the modifications they're proposing you know and just to add a little bit of what Debbie was saying like a Cheesecake Factory I walked by it the other day and in the southernmost part of it the windows are opaque to hide the back of house kitchen area and I talked about Andre carne read earlier well you know different restaurant operators want to achieve a level of privacy and intimacy it makes the space smaller more enjoyable for the patrons and that restaurant has a wall in set 10 feet in from the Lincoln Road store from Windows so in that way the patrons queue up and they go in but there's a wall right there that prevents a complete line of sight into the space so it was approved by this board probably we all knowing that yes this is the way that particular restaurant operator wanted to achieve a certain level of privacy and intim y for its patrons hwood group is no different they're proposing in a different way which triggered your review but I think it's just as valid I I think you're going to want to have those awnings on Lincoln Road here on the south side you're going to have constant Sun going in those windows we're happy we're happy to have them so I mean not only that but I think from a branding point of view it kind of gives your like it gives your little Empire kind of a you know two frontages that really identifies it in a very strong way we would love that thank you great okay um so I guess do you feel you got the I'm sensing Positive Vibes yes very positive vibes I think we'll be a part of this application process move forward come back to you all in September great thank you very much for your time thank you thank you okay yeah that concludes our agenda um unless there's anything else from the board members or Nick um we can adjourn great thank you thank you very much everyone great meeting e he 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