##VIDEO ID:vvPRYXxCZkc## [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] e [Music] [Music] [Music] he [Music] he he [Music] oh [Music] m [Music] [Music] [Music] please take your seats the meeting is about to begin remember to speak into the microphone as this meeting is being recorded for public record please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 [Music] 1 good morning everyone and welcome to the October 88th uh meeting of the Miami Beach historic preservation board and um I will ask Debbie tet to start us off uh good morning Mr chair good morning board members and everyone in the audience um this morning uh I did pass out to the board members an updated agenda this agenda is also posted online um the only change to the agenda this morning is there is a discussion item that will be heard um regarding 1436 Pennsylvania Avenue and that will be at the end of the agenda uh so the order Remains the Same I have no other updates but I will turn it over to Nick Claris from the city attorney's office for the notice regarding lobbyist registration um and the swearing none of the the public wishing to testify thank you Debbie and good morning Mr chairman and members of the board today's meeting of the historic preservation board will be conducted in a hybrid format with the board physically present in the commission Chambers at Miami Beach City Hall and applicant staff and members of the public appearing either in person or virtually via Zoom to participate virtually in today's meeting the public may dial 1888 475 4499 and enter the webinar ID which is 8174846886 pound or log into the Zoom app and enter the webinar ID which is 8174846886 or if you're testifying as an expert witness providing only scientific technical or other specialized information or testimony in this public meeting or if you're appearing as a representative of a neighborhood association without any compensation or reimbursement for your appearance to express support of or opposition to any item expert Witnesses and representatives of neighborhood associations shall prior to appearing disclose and writing to the city clerk their name address and the principal on whose behalf they're communicating um lastly Mr chair I'd like to swear in any members of the public or staff will be test today please raise your right hands do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth all truth and nothing but the truth thank you okay thank you Nick um board members the first uh item this morning is the approval of the September 10th uh meeting minutes do we have any edits or motion motion to approve the minutes do I have a second okay Motion in second all those in favor okay thank you um we have one uh deferral this morning this is HPB 23571 at 321 Jefferson Avenue uh this application is being deferred and will require a full re notice to the public um for for the date it will return to the board so no action is required this morning for this um going to the first regular agenda item we have HPV 24626 this is 2901 to 2911 Indian Creek an application has been filed requesting modifications to a previously issued certificate of appropriateness for the total demolition of two existing buildings the renovation restoration and relocation of one building the construction of a detached residential addition and mult multiple variances from the required pedestal and Tower setbacks and to exceed the projection allowed in the required yards specifically um the applicant is currently requesting approval for the total Demolition and reconstruction of the building previously approved to be retained and relocated on the site um so this is a relatively complex site uh located within the Collins uh Waterfront uh local historic district excuse me um there were three buildings uh the southern there are three buildings on the site the southern parcel 2901 Indian Creek contains a 2story uh postor modern uh building the northern parcel 2911 contains two structures the Western structure adjacent to Indian Creek was constructed in 1936 and designed by chopel and southwell in the Mediterranean Revival Art Deco style of architecture um as noted in the background section of our analysis on January 12th 2021 the historic preservation board did approve the project which included uh the total demolition of both the 1938 and 1962 structures the um remaining structure was approved to be relocated so it would front an Indian Creek currently um it's within the side of the property and it's not entirely visible so they were going to relocate the structure toward Indian Creek and reorient it so the front would be facing um Indian Creek um since that time of the original approval the applicant has submitted for a building permit for the approved project however during the course of the permitting um they noted and and have a structural engineer who has looked at the property and has noted that the um overall structural conditions of the building do not um facilitate it's its moving um the structural engineer has submitted a report saying the building the existing building is not properly reinforced would have to be cut into multiple pieces and it's likely not salvageable um to be to be relocated so the current proposal is to actually demolish the structure while salvaging some of the more architecturally significant features including uh the curved entry state decorative planter and exterior tiles that is proposed to be reincorporated into the Reconstruction um So based on those representations um in the application submitted made by the structural engineer staff has no objection to the Demolition and reconstruction um we do find it uh extremely important not only for this property but for the surrounding Collins Waterfront um historic district to get this property back to active use as soon as possible this has been a vacant site um for nearly I think for over a decade and has caused you know significant uh concerns with the surrounding properties as well um staff did note and we have concerns regarding the existing maintenance of the property again you know it's it's challenging when you have vacant buildings to secure sites however we have um regulations in place in the city to that require securing of properties including fencing requirements and boarding requirements um there have been several violations as of the writing of this report staff noted that the property does not appear to be in um good condition it does not appear to be properly secured and would recommend that any approval be conditioned upon the applicant um obtaining a proper fencing permit within 120 days um to be installed within 120 days so with that we are recommending approval and I am available for any questions um should you have any thank you thank you very much Debbie right go for it ju I have a question Debbie um just I when you guys because we have relocated buildings before in the city and I this is obviously it seems like a more complex um case but I was just curious like how you guys view that because I've it I mean is it I mean obviously we have also an engineering report here and I just I wanted to kind of maybe peel back the lir about Lair back a little bit and just understand like kind of what happened that you know you guys are uh came to that decision that you feel that there's no issue for demolition in this case yeah so we met I mean for example the confidon hotel I'm thinking about about like that but that was a very small you know I think it was like an accessory structure that we had relocated to the to the east side I believe no right and and there's one on um just south of Fifth Street that was recently similar property relocated um I don't want to inter Lindsay do you have um you know it's it's very challenging we met with the applicant several times we expressed Our concern we expressed our preference to maintain the previous approval um and figure out a way to shore up the the structure even if it required the the building to be cut into pieces which is not uncommon when you're moving structures for um cuts to be made in properties each building is very unique each building has different um you know not only um maintenance issues and levels of deterioration of it structure but also with the original structure right so when when some buildings do um with their original design make it easier for them to be lifted and relocated um and we do look at everything on a case-by Case basis we are not in a position to you know peer review a structural engineers report um I I think there's some expertise on this board uh Mr Meer certainly um but at this point with the conditions of the property we really think it's extremely important to get this property back to active use as soon as possible the fact that they are are profer to salvage portions of the building would make a reconstruction more authentic by retaining original material um and ultimately the final project would look would appear to be the same as was previously approved um Ray you had a question well yes um I believe there's already a demolition permit for the uh the bigger building on that lot um does that mean that that could happen when well they need to obtain their full building permit so there's the larger structure that's the post-war modern structure that was approved to be demolished um due in large part to the reconfiguration of Indian Creek when Indian Creek was was elevated that became um that actual the floor of the building became much lower than the sidewalk in the street creating a significant um you know flooding and resiliency issue for the project that building um which is has been problematic in terms of securing the property I mean I I will say that I in the past at least the property owner has secured the property but as you know it's kind of a a wack-a-mole game right it it gets broken into and it's a constant battle to rescure the building um that cannot be demolished because it was a contributing building until they obtain a full building permit for the project I believe and I'm hopeful that this would be the last piece they need in order to obtain that full building permit which would then allow the demolition of of the the nuisance structure I thought the city had already cited it as a a build that needed to be torn down sooner than later um but to my knowledge there has not been an order issued by the building official for the removal of that building okay and the other thing is um I understand you know originally they were just going to rotate the building um but because the road has been raised and everything now they have to rotate it and raise it so that's part of the problem why this building can't be saved is it's it's asking too much of an old girl and I'll I'll let the applicant uh speak more to the specifications of their Structural Engineering analysis okay and can I ask one just for clarification you mentioned that um you need detailed measured drawings um to be completed can can you just say a little bit more about what that is because that's the documentation of the existing building what level of detail you need them to have and yeah and I think that's that's really a best practice when it comes to uh any demolition of a of a historic or contributing building is to have um very detailed larger scale drawings a quarter of an inch a half an inch for certain details similar to how the Habs hair drawings would be um so in terms of the profile Dimensions at a much larger scale we think that would be significantly um helpful when we do receive the permit for the reconstruction um so that we can verify that all of those details are accurate as accurate as possible okay thank you all right yes we're ready for you for your presentation morning everyone Graham penber alard Del Fernandez L tap is 200 South biscan Boulevard I wanted to uh before we started I wanted to uh update everyone on the 1962 building because the 1962 building recently was ordered by the unsafe structures board to be demolished so again that as Debbie said that was always contemplated to be demolished in this plan but has now been ordered by the unsafe structures board so we are committed and I and we have a slide on this I'll show you to moving forward rapidly as possible and as Debbie indicated this is basically the last step hopefully to the issuance of the necessary permits so again did I give my address 200 South Bas G Bel oh and I think we should do disclosures as well uh of meetings Mr cerges I apologize uh we we can do them now we typically do them right before the public hearing yeah we do it at a different moment I'm forgetting the orders of operation so let me introduce our team to my left our architect Sebastian valz and ran roban who'll talk to you about the preservation elements behind me Mr Andy Sullivan our our structural engineer who's going to talk about his conclusions related to the structural Integrity of the building and back there somewhere is Bill Lao uh from ownership so if we could take the slides up I'll take everyone on a brief tour of the of the history and then turn it over to Andy to talk about the implementation so as Debbie indicated this is a complicated site so we're at the northeast corner of 29th Street in Indian Creek three existing buildings uh on the property the history stem uh starts in 1936 when the building at issue today was built which is the best architectural uh example on the property uh two years later an an Annex on all just to to be clear that building faced South so it's basically it front yard was 29th Street and that's basically tells the story about how things got messed up in the 1962 1938 anx is built a very plain building in comparison and then the post-war building in 1962 a Long Bar building along uh 29th Street linked to the 36 building awkwardly with a a catwalk uh and basically basically re rearrange the entire property right the the 30s buildings were essentially invisible since 196 to uh to anyone this is the approved plan basically as you can see a the 1936 building occupying pride of place on Indian Creek raised to Modern standards uh and activated obviously with residential use with a residential building behind it nothing in this application is changing that whatsoever this is really just the implement of how that building gets there uh as Debbie indicated this this property like lots of of its neighbors has significant issues with its uh its elevation this is the old sidewalk level where you could see that's Mr valz from you can tell that was from the pandemic several years ago where that's it was basically at his head was what Bas flood was and this is what the road raising has done to the property of Indian Creek you can see the significant difference between the new sidewalk and our grade So the plan from the outset was always raise this up get that historic building up so it's out of the flood plane and it can and it can be activated and useful for decades to come that's what it looks now if you're out there today you can see that significant grade change so this is again is what the plan will Implement right there's the 36 the reconstructed 36 building safely out of the flood plane meeting current flood requirements and as we disced discussed when we were here last that is consistent with the the buyant city plan that calls for that kind of movement to raise those buildings when we can so that's a that's a view of the uh the architecture so let's talk about the the methodology this this basically the concept was the two buildings that were approved for demolition would be demolished we would need to slice the the 36 building into three pieces push them over while it's over on the east side would need to fill the entire site uh build a new foundation for the 36 building and move it over uh that was what was originally contemplated now I can tell you uh as the ownership has explained to me this concept is is less expensive than what we're proposing now it's more expensive to do what we're proposing to do um but it really but when we were talking to gc's the consensus was you really need to have a structural engineer look at this and that's why Mr Sullivan was brought in to view it uh and Andy's report is obviously in your package I'm going to hand while he's talking I'm going to hand out a CV but uh what what Andy uh recognized was again the very nature of this building makes that plan essentially very dangerous or impossible so Mr Sullivan so good morning um I'm Andrew Sullivan with mcar Salvia Structural Engineers uh we've been asked to look at this existing building and and present to you this morning you know what we think that the impacts are uh for relocating it so I just kind of wanted to give a little bit of background knowledge first um you know it generally looks like it's a U-shaped building you know basically a primary building in the front with two Wings on the side it's actually technically an h-shaped building there's there's a couple of of of U parts that go out on the north side of it um currently um as well but but generally speaking um the perimeter walls are a block type of construction uh unreinforced uh the elevated level is woodframe Construction uh and the roof is also wood frame construction um as well um and I guess if we could advance to the next slide if you don't mind um I'm forgetting my job hold on that's okay so uh this is a photo of of standing in the front Courtyard um and and you know basically there's there's plywood over the windows and the door openings at at the moment but it just goes to show how many and I think what's important to realize here how many openings there are uh in this building and to relocate it to actually lift it up off of its foundation you got to cut the bottom of those unreinforced walls from the foundation put more holes through it you know where are all those extra holes going to go in here um to then lift the whole structure up then to slide it over to rotate it get it back to you know it's its fin final resting place so our concern is multiple will fold if we have more openings in this type of facade that's even shown here just to move it just by this racking a little bit in in plane has the ability to just to crumble the other thing is is that if we need to take this apart in Parts basically taking off the wings and then leaving the center piece that Center piece is not a stable box anymore it's a two-sided box with two two open ends the wings end up being a three-sided box with with an open end and just by virtal of of trying to lift that element and have it remain a contained element would be a challenge the other thing that I mentioned earlier is then just the connection of the block walls again unreinforced with wood frame construction that's coming into the side of it on a ledger angle and and the and the roof sitting on top and it's not a structure like we have today where we' got hurricane straps that are tying this thing down and make these robust connections so if there's any racking out of plane those connections have no ability to restrain it you during its movement so to be honest the logic was that instead of taking the risk and trying to move this to preserve the things that are important to us and and and potentially break those things in the process of moving it that we extract the the items that are actually important for the structure which we can move because they're smaller bite-sized pieces that we know that we can preserve well thank you Andy uh here's just another shot looking at the the another side of the building showing the number of openings this also shows you I I just want to note briefly and we're probably need more time Mr chairman this the the second floor catwalk there was was a 60s construction that will be removed in the in the new design to return it to basically it's 2 by two uh format so with that let me ask Sebastian BL to take you through the elements that we are proposing to remove and retain uh good morning uh my name is Sebastian Bellis from Urban robot Associates uh 420 Lincoln Road we've been involved with the site from the very beginning for many years we're very passionate about this project it's kind of a you know it's it's a favorite project in the office and and like Debbie said we really want to make it happen um so we we've always uh been fond of this building we think that this is the most um historically significant building on the site and um and we are looking forward to uh developing the full strategy of rotating it or whatever it is that we we end up getting approval for from but really to showcase the building and we think that the courtyard is is the key element here architecturally speaking and we've identified uh as as as part of this model you see here the different uh elements that really uh give uh life to the building and are historically uh important including the uh the staircases the Arco um uh flowing staircases are are are are beautiful and they're they're in you know good shape and we've identified those as as a potential to you know uh take and and and um remove from the building preserve and then uh incorporate into the new structure also minor elements uh that we've identified are uh different uh tiles that are quite nice um and I think we have some pictures of them here uh these decortive facade tiles are primarily on the courtyard side although some of them are on the on the current uh west elevation as well and there's a few other elements like the this um this uh stepping uh kind of a decorative uh back backdrop of this uh Decor uh stepping element and then obviously all the cornices around and uh the pedestals uh that we see holding different elements and this just I don't know if you wanted to talk more about this slide or not yeah this this one makes it clear that uh actually the other facad are quite plain they're they're uh for the most part um they devoid of any decoration except for the cordin uh and then the window openings um but uh anything facing west and North uh as and then the interior as well uh there's actually uh two uh faux uh fireplaces inside that just as a side not we we love them so we were always you can see it there in the kind of the middle lower image we're always taking those out and putting them in the new tow houses cuz we think that they're uh quite beautiful thanks Sebastian so to to sum up this will be the the the last topic Mr chairman I I I wanted to make sure that we address the the timing issue because staff is correct that this has taken to long to get realized we are now and Sebastian can fill in any details on the on the permitting we have the master permit is hopefully approaching final review right we think we've got at least maybe a couple more months of that left upon the issuance of that permit we will and and the associate demo permit then we will uh remove all the historic elements from the 36 building take them off the property s and and safely uh uh store them any the the remaining structures will then be removed and the property cleared and filled and that will allow us to commence with the Reconstruction of this building and the new and the new structure so that U ending with a pretty picture that that is our presentation Mr chairman uh we're here for any questions you may have and I'd like to reserve time for autal we would ask for your approval today great thank you thank you very much uh for that presentation and I guess we'll uh just go up the line to see if anybody any board members have questions in um tearing that building down and rebuilding it do you not lose tax credits to do that so in other words you know you're really losing to build a new building so obviously you wouldn't do that unless you had to yeah as I said before right it's also more expensive so we're both losing any potential adum you benefit we get and it costs us more to do it this way and my other question is the site is the site is now going to be empty are you going to rebuild this building first or are you going to build your new building first I don't that's a staging question I don't know if we have an answer for that bill do you have a any I'm afraid you're going to have to get on the microphone bill I because I think it's important you know I mean you're you're rebuilding the building that should be the first thing that you do to prove that that's exactly what you didn't want to do uh Bill lito 2901 Indian Creek Drive U the intention would be to do everything at the same time the the the small building and the big building at the same time at least the foundations absolutely but we could absolutely consider building the small building first it wouldn't adjust timeline at all you're done um CCO would you like to no comment okay more questions yes questions thank thank you for the presentation beautiful project um I just had one question what is the existing foundation of the um building that's being demolished you might have said it but I probably missed it so we understand that the foundation is just a shallow strip Foundation that that just follows the perimeter walls all the way around the perimeter thank you yes right hi thanks for the presentation um this question is directed to the architect I believe it's Mr valz is it Mr yes okay um just if you could could you just give us a bit more specificity on those historical elements um I you know I jotted them down here but I think it could be helpful just to put a little bit more um detail on those so particularly these the decorative tile um decorative tiles I thought that that those were quite beautiful just curious like did you guys do an audit like how many are there like how are you thinking about incorporating those into the design I wasn't I didn't really see any you know suggestion of what that might look like in the renders but just curious about kind of what your inspiration was there um on the stairs that I think that's pretty straightforward you said there were two I believe those two uh what you call them the there are these swooping Art Deco uh stairs okay so yeah I mean if you could just maybe speak a little bit to those and then the last piece I guess was the you you called it a stepping like those kind of Step stairs it are you planning on taking like that image there and actually having it removed and somewhere and could you maybe just give us some more specificity on that as well absolutely no problem I think if let's go for the to the other one so we've we documented this building uh we've had a three uh we've had uh 3D survey done we've had two surveyors uh document the inside uh the facades we have a a Bim model of the building um and uh that's served as our basis uh to really understand and analyze the building for the project now it when we were having discussions about the possibility of uh reconstruction of the building demolishing and reconstruction of the building we we were tasked with looking at the building and really uh understanding what are the unique elements that uh make this building uh you know contributing structure and and and are important right so we've identified those elements uh and the intent would be to replicate the building exactly as it is now and obviously uh renovate the building because some of the elements you know have uh for example the tiles uh you know would be removed and and placed in the same location and um some of the brick work uh is not in the best shape so we would basically renovate uh that brick work I think Debbie uh made a good point which I think the next step would be if we were to to receive approval we would have to uh pursue a a permit for the Reconstruction of the building and in that place before we would do anything to this building we would have to show a very very detailed drawing so we have a very good base but we would have to go and document uh every single brick every single single element very closely right we we have the major components in place we feel very comfortable about that we've I've actually gone in there measured certain things myself with my team but when you're dealing with something like this and something as precious as this you basically we really have to make sure that every element once you demolish it you you have a a uh you know instructions to reconstruct every single element we also have microfilm that has been helpful in kind of going back and forth on what what is original and what has not that has allowed us to to realize what elements were originally part of the building and what elements were not and then when we went for the board approval like Graham said some of these catwalks were not part of the original design um the the elements are are they're not that many um and uh like I said it's the decorative tiles the staircases really are the most important thing the coordinates that wraps around the entire building um and the there's uh this kind of a stepping element that is decorative uh we think we don't know what it is some of us have thought that maybe it was a fountain we don't have any evidence as that I think it's just a backdrop for a for a planter it's a decorative element we want to keep that reconstruct that well attach it to the reconstructed building and keep that element and other than that those are the main elements and our task would be to document uh and everything and so that we can reconstruct it exactly as is great Lindsay I was hitting the wrong button uh this question is um largely for Mr Sullivan but grah may be able to answer um so you have a very impressive resume I am just curious have and I saw on your website you've done some adaptation have you been involved in moving a structure like this successfully I mean not like this but a historic structure Mo picking it moving it successfully so as you can tell by our website I mean we we primarily work on um new construction um we have worked on several um historic buildings the seavoy the addition um and and retrofit of existing structures um moving one has not been something that we have done as a as a firm but we're just looking at this from a practical perspective what we know about structures and and that's what formed our recommendation okay thank you all right I have a couple questions uh one's first for you Mr Sullivan um I you mentioned um that uh you were concerned about the building racking out of plane and I was wondering why in your experience that would happen What would the circumstance be if you're really using the techniques that we use to lift buildings that it would rack out of plane so so if you take the the the building as a whole I could just call it a u-shape and and with the two sides of the Ed being wings and you and you separate that from the the center portion of the building then that's a two-sided box you've got the block wall on the South Side the block wall on the North side but there's no stability creating a box in in on the other two ends so in if you take a section through it then you've got two walls and you got a floor and a roof and so there's no stiffness at those four connections where it could rack like this in each Direction right but what if you if you reinforced it what would the Circ you mentioned a circumstance under which it would rack out of plane and I was just wondering what would that circumstance be if you've reinforced it adequately which you'd have to do in any event but what would it be one of the like one of the cranes doesn't lift at the same time as another or what I from your experience what would that be I'm guessing I think it could just purely be how how it's lifted from one side versus the other side you know and and and a little bit of eccentricity could be enough to to to put it into that kind of racking type of position okay um so I have another question maybe this is for you maybe not um I was interested in the staircases and what they're made out of um and I was wondering and and I think that would matter are they poured concrete are they built up are they you know wood frame andco what what are they and um kind of how would you move them securely um cuz they're I mean they're not buildings but they're large and where off site are you planning to store them okay so I can answer the first yeah I know this is not all for you right um so so we understand that to be entirely concrete structure I see and and and and from standpoint what concrete yes and and so what we would advise our client if if we're moving the rest of the structure around those we would dig around the entire stair we would recommend that actually you pick it up with the foundation let's excavate at all the soil out and grab the whole thing as a whole because that's going to enable that's kind of everything opposite of what I've been talking about this morning is that it it then creates a St stable structure in its entirety to be able to move to another location right right but somebody else will need to answer the wear yeah the wear um do we do we know where what site where they're going to be moved how I'm curious about how far they're going to be we we don't have a location yet but it would have to be somewhere local obviously all right and um I was wondering about the the timeline um maybe Graham you can help me with this uh just the 120 days we have for the fence uh that we're trying to get the fence up in 120 days where does 120 days fall on that timeline that you showed us of the building process like uh you know considering you'll be getting new permit let me get help from both my colleagues here I my understanding and Sebastian can kind of upine as to where we where he thinks we are in the in the permit process so we're actually we've been working uh uh with the city of Miami Beach to really uh work through all the comments we're actually only have a few handful of comments left we um it's it's been a long process and it's kind of a complex site so um through the process there's been questions that have come up uh with the reviewers uh because the complexity of the complexities of it but uh I think we're finally there we have a meeting with the fire department that was very productive we are actually submitting resubmitting for the handful of comments that we have uh today and so uh we you know we're we're close you know within a few weeks I would hope uh hopefully yeah so we're a complex site is putting it mildly but so I was kind of wondering just like you know if you live in the neighborhood when can you expect the you know when will the fence when will when is 120 days will anything have happened on the site will any demolition have occurred within 120 days is that possible is it likely Ray did you have a question so I I well I think the answer is that we might be in a cont in in the context where the 120 days comes and goes right we have to erect the fence okay but we're we're contemplating that once the permit issues we can start moving within a couple weeks so if Sebastian's hopes and dreams come true um uh then we could be you know underway you know in this in this year before the end of the year okay you know and with the idea of just getting clearing it out okay but it's likely the fence will be up and then you'll be doing work on the site okay R I just want to clarify one thing that I don't think you really brought up is the fact that the building really has to be moved twice because you have to move it to the back of the lot then build up the land and then move it back so it's not like you just take it and turn it you've got to do it twice and you haven't brought that point up I don't believe it's got to be shifted turn and go up a hill right to get back to the foundation but now but now the plan is to demolish all the buildings on the site at the same time is that correct correct yes if this application is approved that's the way we remove the historic elements and my question was whether the fence would be up or not okay are you good H yes lindsy this is another question for Mr Sullivan I guess um you know and he mentioned go up a hill does that change the analysis I I mean I know we've seen buildings moved so from an engineering standpoint um does having to well I guess move it twice although I don't know I mean the ones that I've seen they're kind of on supports um does that change the analysis at all if it were on a flat surface versus having to be also lifted from a lower level in the back to a higher level in the front yeah I think that that has an impact I mean taking on you know Mr Stewart's last question you know about what would cause racking that would cause racking if you're trying to take this up a hill because essentially these things are on they're on beams but they're on Wheels and and then they're rolling it you know so so by virtue of rolling up the hill that could cause an additional stress yes go ahead Mr solivan regarding the issue of racking which has come up multiple times now it's an issue of Economics isn't it not because you can reinforce the building such that we can move it well I mean to to what point I mean you know I think it's a matter of Economics uh in other words the owner perhaps is saying it's going to cost me too much to reinforce this building to the point where we can move it I mean uh we have the technology to do whatever we want to do today we sent the man to the Moon 50 years ago and brought him back so we can move a building if we reinforce it properly correct I I I think that that's a possibility certainly but there's a risk that comes along with that and and you know you could still break the things that are important um the the other thing is is that if if the plan is to remove the entire building or to move the entire bu building I should say and you're cutting it off of the foundations like I suggested before you are then also doing that with the sterile elements also so you have more risk of breaking those features in trying to take it as a whole versus just trying to save what is important from an architectural perspective my comment is regarding the you know we're basing all this entire discussion about the building not being able to be moved the issue is economics in my opinion probably in yours as well the building can be moved if it was reinforced strategically uh in specific areas and then it can be moved properly correct anything is possible anything is possible yeah it's a matter of Economics can I can I ask you one other question just did you do an analysis of uh the concrete block or the the wall material that's in that building I mean 1936 was kind of a a tough year sometimes for con concrete depending on who was who was building the building did did you analyze it for salt content or we did not do any material testing no okay all right thank you all right now the moment we've all been waiting for uh disclosures um lyy uh I had a meeting with the applicant okay okay no no okay disclosures are done I was supposed to have a meeting with appli but I unfortunately uh was not able to come sorry okay now we're opening it to the public hearing anyone anyone on Zoom please raise your hand anyone in the audience please come forward uh Mr chair I see an RH on Zoom good morning I'll I'll swear you in and then and then please state your name for the record do you do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do thank you could you sayate your name uh Randy hollingworth okay you have three minutes thank you I live at 2939 Indian Creek which is just North of the site I am the President of our Condominium Association I'm also on the Executive Board of the bid mid Beach neighborhood association which this uh building falls under the area in which we represent most many of the owners of properties including the hotels um we clearly support Redevelopment of the site we've lived with this site for many years um our bigger concern I I think was also mentioned by staff that this site has been or the owners of this property have been cited for numerous violations um the condition of the property is deplorable to say the least uh it is not maintained there are weeds garbage sidewalks are covered with dirt gravel sand uh they're very very seldom maintained the weeds get to for 5 ft High uh full of garbage there is a fence around the property now which was rebuilt after appeared the developer before pulled out or something all the signage went away the sign the fence fell down they rebuilt it um recently there was a fire on the site from people living on the site having started to fire in the buildings um there are piles of garbage four or five feet high down the courtyard which uh obviously is the home probably to rats and other things um we would really really request the city to take some action to make this owner of the property maintain the property this is not going to go away with the Demolition of the building we have a year or two of construction to put up with we walk around the property we use this uh Indian Creek and the side 30 29th Street for access to the area uh it is unsafe and um whether the buildings are torn down or not how the owner takes care of the uh right of way and the property and the sidewalks is very important to the community um I'm actually in charge of a group that is now looking at deric sites and how they're not maintained and they create unsafe conditions for the neighborhood so this is a site that we've uh looked at um and has serious problems for the neighborhood as far as how it is maintained we encourage the Redevelopment of the site but surely the city can take action to make this owner um maintain the site not only now but during construction which will go on for some time after they start tearing the building down so I think it's very important that the city uh used that as leverage for the permit approval and things like that thank you very much am I recognized please okay thank you Mr chair Daniel seral on behalf of Miami Design preservation League I'll try to get done in three minutes but it was a long uh um application so I wanted to let you all know that this project has been very well received by the community in the past it's been in the press as a potential solution for resiliency we' even had the Architects come and speak at mdpl and um it does go within the boy and City plan so on that note it is very exciting that the owners are interested in doing this um but with the latest proposal the applicant is requesting more demolition than originally proposed and this board gave the approval for a large new project um sort of as part of the program that included the preservation of the original structure and the relocation if we had not known that the structure was going to be relocated or or that it had to be demolished to be relocated maybe the original program would not have been as palatable that being said we are in a situation here now where the property is really neglected and um they have come and said that um taking the architectural elements will help with uh reconstruction but that they want to reconstruct from scratch the concrete mostly concrete block structure so we uh uh board member Lindsay level uh took away my um cross-examination but thank you the board members for questioning some of the methodology about moving as someone who's not an engineer though I've been uh present at about half a dozen lifts and moves in town I was also a little bit uh questioning some of that methodology but it is clear that it's possible but at this point with everything going on we think that um you know if uh this reconstruction is the best way forward then we should do that this would be a learning project I would hope that applicants would allow us to you know be a part the process and learn about it because even I think us and the city we need to learn what is possible what is impossible whether elevation only is a better bet or whether moving it and elevating uh might have some better approaches but with everything that's going into this project we think that it should move forward um while also making sure we are aware of the possibilities uh good and bad with these resiliency interventions so thank you thank you Daniel I see uh no other members of the public wishing to comment all right then um did the applicant have anything left to say then I guess now it's time for uh board member comment um do you want to start Lindsay we'll go down the line or or would you rather I start with three that's fine okay um I got called out the other day for deferring to Ray I just wanted to switch it up one time so I'll I'll go first this time um so as I mentioned earlier in disclosures I did uh do a site visit um with the applicant um so I saw the current state of the property um of you know friends and acquaintances who live um you know in the building directly across the way um so I'm familiar with the neighborhood and you know there's a lot going on there they've had the Indian Creek raising um there's construction going on on on on the Colin side now um you know and this is a you know an isore to say the least at the moment um I I noticed um and and the attorney really to me the unsafe structures order it looked like they've done some core testing on um on the postwar modern building so you know uh I don't doubt that there are certainly issues there um you know really what's before us is whether or not we think that um you know do we hold feet to the fire and you know enforce the pre-existing order or do we um look at this as a lesson learned um and you know and and also you know an alternative um from a preservation standpoint um I don't know I'm I'm kind of torn on this one um but you know I think uh my fow board mble down the high school brought up um you know it's it's a question of Economics um but you know economics is also you know theoretical right you know we don't live in a world of theory we live a world of dollars and cents and sometimes that makes a difference um I do appreciate the applicant coming before us today um you know making efforts to preserve those architecturally significant elements um you know even in the site visit you really couldn't get in to see the stairs themselves um but they even know from the sidewalk what I could see they looked beautiful um and um we talked about um the other elements being preserved the tile the um like I called them flower boxes I'm not sure if that's what they were but outside the windows on the they're currently on the West Side um but also elements um that I think are planned to be ret retained um anyways I you know it's a long diet tribe to say um you know I appreciate the efforts that are being made here um and uh you know I would encourage us and and our applicants to you know really look for the experts in these areas um you know as sort and this is this is not a knock at Mr Sullivan and like I said I wasn't kidding you have an impressive resume um but you know um don't come to me asking me for advice on family law because you know I that's not what I practice um and so you know looking for the people who are you know experts in this field um and and and can talk about how you know can talk about how something can be done rather than like not can't be done um would would be my thought process moving forward for anyone who's looking for um these types of projects where we're talking about raising and moving um which is you know inevitable great thank you lindsy Bryant do you want to go next would you want more time more time okay all right Laur uh thank you again so much for the presentation um I really appreciated um the the diagrams in the architectural um plans for the Salvage plan I think that should be a requirement is it a requirement I'm not sure of historic but um I really appreciated that and even going interior with the fireplaces I think you know it shows a lot of um effort on the part of ownership to to recognize that um you know these historic elements are irreplaceable and to to kind of honor that history of Miami Beach and it's you know though not ideal in its existing state um I think is is very thoughtful and and thank you for being stewards of that um Irreplaceable history um I also really appreciated the concerns on resiliency um mdpl brought up a good point if there was a way to to document this because it will continue to to be a learning um experience for all of us hopefully to work together to keep you know Miami Beach a special um thriving place um you know it's it is a a tough situation but I do understand more or less the the engineering behind it and um and definitely um supportive if if if that is the ultimate recommendation in in light of all the thoughtfulness that went into the entire um design construction and ownership group so thank you thank you hll would you like to go thank you I have a couple of comments um as I look at sheet a02 you know a number of buildings that were built in the 30s and the 40s that are two and three four stories tall maybe and my concern is where we are going in this city where are we heading we're going to allow a seven-story building uh in the back of this property and um the question is how does it affect the homeowners that that live across Indian Creek Canal um down the road are we just setting a precedent so that every other owner in the city we had this case happen a couple of at our last meeting where the property is allowed to go into disrepair it's neglected and then the owners come in and say well we can't Salvage this building you know we we have no way to uh Salvage it any longer so we need to demolish it and we're going to build something perhaps twice as Tall part of the charm of this city part of the charm is it used to be driving down Indian Creek is the lowrise buildings where you have homes on the right the canal and then you have these lowrise buildings if we're going to start building seven eight 10 story buildings we're creating a Concrete Jungle which I'm I'm completely opposed to so I just wonder where this city is headed now where are we going with this you know with allowing this particular project even though I like the design I think the the new building design is is is uh attractive design but um um I'm just not completely satisfied that this is the path that we need to take allowing Property Owners to allow their properties to go into this repair coming in front of this board and saying well we can't Salvage it cost us too much to salvage it therefore allow us to demolish it and we'll do whatever we please even though they're building within the F and I noted that but I just uh by the time it gets to this point it seems like the train has left the station and I think we need to curb this sort of uh ability of uh homeowner or Property Owners to allow their properties to go into disrepair and coming in front of this Sport and asking to build greater height greater density that's all thanks great thank you Ray um in terms of like Haskell's right about U uh economics but what he's also not really saying that's very true is time if you were to turn around and uh reinforce this building pick it up move it raise the land turn it around all of that time you can't be building anything else on that property because your property is being totally taken by that so there's a time element that I bet would add almost an entire year to getting this project completed and I think those are one of the things that you know you have to think about um you were talking about the height of the the new building askal and I believe it's the same height as the building that's directly behind it and what we've done in the past is when you maintain the street at the higher at the norm the original Lev level and you build taller behind um that it's been relatively acceptable uh you know in many other areas of of the city so you have to look at each case individually I you know I think you guys have done a great job in in presenting this and in um salvaging what you can salvage and to move this project forward for the entire neighborhood because it has been a horrible eyesore for many many years and I I applaud you thank you thank you Ray um Brian and then Lindsay has another question yeah I mean look I would Echo a lot of you know some my fellow board members there's been some really great points here I think one is in an Ideal World we wouldn't have gotten to today um I think if you if you go all the way back you know even historically that I called the third building I think you guys called 36 um you know that very long building that that that currently faces um uh 36 36th Street sorry 29th Street excuse me um you know that building there kind of uh obstructs all of the historical you know elements of those other two buildings and so in my mind in that moment was kind of the first you know element uh or the first decision point that um you know has led to where we are today uh so it it's look there these these pictures this report um it it shows to me that this is there this is a crumbling building this is this there this is very concerning um this is very unsafe obviously there you know the the record has has shown um you know that this has to be remedied and so I think that you guys have done a great job to to I guess chart a a course forward more or less um it's not you know the be it's not the best I think it's the best that we've got is is kind of where I'm where I'm landing um I hear H's point but I'm a practical guy a practical business guy and I I just think that I I do agree with Ray that time is money and um we don't really have you know the timing we need to focus on this area and do the very best that we can um I really appreciate everything that you guys have detailed on the historical element side of things I think that you have pulled out and I didn't get to take a site visit but I think you've pulled out a lot of really important um key elements that I would love to see preserved and I'm excited to see what those more detailed drawings will look like um particularly the stairs the fireplaces the these these beautiful ceramic tiles are are gorgeous and I'm I am really curious of how you guys are going to um execute on that and and I guess the other thought that I had uh in closing is the Lessons Learned I believe that um lindsy brought this up or was it yeah I what I think could be helpful here I mean I'm just thinking for myself like when I come into these meetings and I'm trying to understand um you know how to balance all of these various issues I think sometimes it would be helpful if the client could help the city out and actually provide us with takeaways you know during this process and after this process some sort of report I mean I'm not asking for you know something incredibly strenuous but just so that other future applicants can can kind of look to see what were what were the lessons learned that that you know you guys came away with here and I think you know as the architect you could probably help us to say these are the things that you know we felt given and I understand it's a case-by case situation but these are the things that we felt needed to be saved here's why we felt they needed to be safe here here you know here was the logic behind why we could not relocate and why and we you know uh in a future case you may consider these other variables of that you know would impact relocation you know with the with a structural engineer I just think it would be helpful if we could start to get um you know start to to learn more from the these examples and not just come to the meetings you know every month and then see another situ a where we feel like our hands are tied uh and there's nothing else that we can do so I I'll be happy to accept a report uh you know when you when you finish the project and I'm eager to see the project thank you yeah we we gladly come back to the board and show you how we implement it you know because as a as a buoyant City you know leader hopefully uh that's what this project is always trying to be so we'd gladly take you through the process um when we as we once we're done basically thank you Grand thank you sorry Lindy I just had a question that came up when I think one of my fellow board members was talking about um resiliency um I mean obviously the front building is having to be raised more than originally anticipated as a result of the the road raising um what other considerations went into this as far as I mean was there additional height for future proofing this right so I mean here's my that process we're building this new structure we're taking we're you know assuming approval today you're reconstructing an existing structure with the historic elements and raising it my question is what is our prediction or you know as best we can on how long that's going to be resilient in this space um I mean that's that's part of the the point here right is to you know bring this to a level where it can withstand the test of time for another 90 years I was doing the math sorry so the um and and Sebastian can further explain it but I the the concept here is that the historic building will meet modern flood requirements right that's the resiliency code yeah under the under the resiliency code with free board requirements so we'll be there that's the whole point so it's actually about 5T that the building will be moved up so it's a 9 nvd it would be a 9vd and then and then the Finish floor is above the grade obviously all right I'll I'll I'll jump in here and um I um they may have water um you want some water from back here no there's some outside um anyway I I want to say that uh I appreciate the um I I appreciate the complexity of this project and the complexity of the um of the presentation uh that said uh so on the on the side of I would propose that you improve this or in the future would be kind of Mr Sullivan is a is obviously an outstanding engineer but without having any experience having moved a building his his um opinion about whether it could be moved or not I think falls into some question it would be like if I were going to be saying this I don't have I have not also also have not moved a building but I so I wouldn't really weigh in on whether it can move or not I think a stronger case would be made by someone who could move who knows how to move a building and that we should try to bring those experts to bear on this in addition to anything that uh Mr Sullivan may offer on the other side I think that the uh Architects um as choked up as they may be right now are uh very um are are outstanding outstanding stewards of the site I think uh you guys are um very trustworthy very smart knowledgeable and work in many many areas across the city and I um and I I I trust you uh as far as the Consolidated order to do the um to do the work so I was going to propose maybe um to Debbie and maybe this is also something for the applicant um that um a few things be added to the Consolidated order before we approve it um and I was just uh this for you guys's thought thoughts uh one is in 120 days we have a report back because I think one of the most critical issues is that the site which is not going to be built on uh for a period of time that we can't tell right now but we can have the site cleaned and cleared and properly fenced uh and in 120 days come back with that um to see whether that has actually happened uh and and so that's one one pos one uh proposition another is that the Consolidated order include um include a a detailed list of um as detailed as we can have it of what is going to be preserved because I don't think it was listed anywhere in there the stairs weren't listed the planter wasn't listed the the other items the tiles not that we have to know the number of tiles but just that those are in the order itself good it's just like this that's all you yeah but that's not the Consolidated order that's so yeah um and then the only other thing let's see that I had uh was and I don't know whether this is even possible but um can we ask that the uh well I I don't know whether we want to talk it all as a board about um about the ordering of this to make sure that we have uh either have the the reconstructed building we often do this with histo with historically preserved buildings is ask them to be preserved first then the new building be built um I I also don't want to slow this process down because if it's just if it's basically two new buildings being built on the site they could be built simultaneously but um is there is there some way to kind of attach you could do something like that yeah yeah maybe that's a can you say that on the mic yeah uh yeah you know and we've seen this before in other other projects um you know you you can get a TCO but you cannot get a CO until everything is done and ready to go um and that ensures that the building that you say you're going to reconstruct is done in in a manner and and speed that the rest of the project goes by does that sound uh Deb be like a possibility yes we have included that condition and I think the latest one was at the Aman Resort had that Co condition um because it's it's hard to to put a condition in about the construction because this will be and will require this to be one single building permit so you know in terms of how quickly they're constructing it's it's more challenging but the co we can put a condition in that no Co shall be issued for the residential addition before the co is issued for the reconstructed contributing building Lindsay this is suggestion Andor maybe a question for the applicant would the applicant be willing as far as the fencing goes to do something that's not the I mean what's there right now is a chain link fence with you know some sort of mesh covering something that's more substantial and appealing to the eye while it's going by maybe something that has look at this new property that's coming I don't know if that's something branding something you know I just I wanted to put that out there so I'm just trying I I'm trying to bring to mind the city's current requirements for construction Fen but I mean like there are other projects right that are going on in the city where the fence and that I mean this Debbie can speak to this but the the fencing that you know encapsulates that whole building is let's say wrapped or it's branded or when a visitor from somewhere else you know is is is going by there you know neighbor residents they feel that you know there's a a new uh building that's being reborn there you know and I I think that that's to me the last time that I went by there I didn't feel that way with the fence that was there we have no objection to that so it's just matter of how it's written yeah so we have a condition in the order that the fence would need to comply with the city's current regulations regarding vacant Properties or construction sites currently this property is not a construction site because they do not have an active building permit um so the the vacant site requirements require a aluminum picket fence on all Street sides um with a with a minimum height they can go up to 7 ft for the aluminum picket fence if within that 120 day time frame they obtain a building permit then the construction site fencing requirements do allow for the chain link however we also have the provision that they do need to have the artistic graphic wrap along the um along the entirety of the street facing so we can require that if that that isin yeah so if they are going to get a demolition permit or another permit then we can issue them the construction fence but we will require an artistic graphic so would we add the um in the ordinance would we add it to to 1 c um a is that where the in the uh is that where the list of uh preserved intended preserved items would be yes okay um that's where I would recommend actually uh delineating each of the elements yeah um which I mean I can have the applicant confirmed but we have as the stair two stairs the the stairs the planter elements the tile and I believe they're also proposing to retain that horizontal um banding the decorative banding so those are the four elements I don't know if I'm missing anything Sebastian there's a wider ele like this is the one that's on the western facad there's like the cornice gets wider it's like a little shelf element we've indicated that in the planes but it's there's like a there's a pot on it it's basically a decorative element on the western facade okay second level but that's basically an exension of the corus I guess but it's a wire version and you'll you'll take that off and and put it back on that's within our plans is being salv right right right okay were there interior elements the fireplace that's part of this application but uh the fireplaces are will be taken out can we add the fireplaces to this ordinance would it have to be a would it have to be a profer just cuz it's would you agree for the fireplaces the answer is yes okay got some fireplace L up here I don't know on the I do to okay so um is there any other discussion board discussion no uh if not Debbie do you want to yeah so we we could take a motion um if I could just recap what we've heard in terms of potential modifications so the first would be a progress report within a 120 days to return to the board with an update regarding uh the property maintenance and securing of the site and the fencing so that would be by the the January February yeah maybe February is better um okay um the second uh potential Amendment would be to include a list delineating each of the elements um including the both of the stairs the Planters the tiles the horizontal banding and the decorative element that wraps around the West facade of the building and the fire interior fireplaces um those were the two oh and that the the finals the COO for the new residential building shall not be issued prior to the issuance of the co for the reconstructed contributing building right the whole property will be residential use is there a motion I'll make the motion a second okay ray okay let me call the RO Mr Erick yes Mr Meyer yes Miss Weinstein Burman yes uh Mr Breslin yes Miss level yes Mr Stewart yes and Miss cararo is absent thank you again everyone thank you okay um Mr chair the next item on the agenda is HPB 246 Debbie can we do just a minute bio break okay want a five minute break yeah okay e e e e e e e e e e please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 1 okay welcome back everyone um we are moving on to the next application which is HPB 24623 this is a request the applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the partial Demolition and renovation of the building located at 1545 Collins Avenue and site improvements um this subject property contains two contributing buildings The Shore Crest Hotel and the Royal Palm Hotel Site was redeveloped substantially in the 1990s um this included the introduction of two new guest room Towers it also included the Reconstruction of the Royal Palm Hotel which um unfortunately was demolished due to structural deficiencies during the course of construction um the currently proposed scope of work is limited to the first and second levels of the royal of the reconstructed Royal Palm portion of the site um it's so it's a relatively complex application although low intervention they are they are proposing to retain and restore the vast majority of all of the significant architectural features both on the exterior of the Royal Palm as well as within the public Lobby um so we would like to to commend the applicant for that they are proposing to reconfigure several areas of the ancillary uh Lobby and meeting spaces including the outdoor corridors and there are some modifications proposed for the rear pool deck area um perhaps the most not noticeable change here is the redesigned of the front yard um as shown in in our report we have some imagery um some historical images as shown in the 1941 aerial photograph um we do believe that the current driveway configuration is how it was originally built the microphone plans which we've also included show a different configuration but since the that very early aial photograph was taken shortly after the construction of the property we do believe that that was the originally constructed uh configuration um so we are very supportive of the project as a whole um as as most members of the public and and the board members I'm sure will note we're seeing a significant amount of invest M along these oceanfront hotels um particularly in the area between 15th Street and 19th Street really even it's a little bit further north um with the bulgary uh seagull project so we are extremely supportive of the applicants plan which again does propose to retain the Tazo flooring including the compass rose the original historic Lobby will be retained we are supportive of these other modifications in the the less significant portions of the building that had been altered um During the Reconstruction as well um but our only comment is with regard to the the reconfigured front yard and we would we are recommending that that front yard be consistent with with the original design including the retention of the original Fountain again we cannot verify 100% that that's the original fountain but we're Fair fairly confident that it is um the pylons were reconstructed during that that um the 1990s project um but we think it is important um urbanistic to maintain that historic configuration along Collins Avenue um so with that I'm I'm available for any questions um that you may have any any questions for Debbie no no okay then um welcome good morning excuse me good morning for the record my name is Carter McDow builds in sunberg um we have our entire design team here our our traffic engineer our Landscape Architects um and I was actually going to say that this is not a complicated application especially in light of the one you just held you just discussed um it's really pretty straightforward uh the the owners of the property are going through a major renovation top to bottom the only thing that's affected that comes before you because the other is interior um and in the hotel areas is this application that is before you um they are raising the standard of this property uh it will be part of the tribute portfolio once it is once the project is completed and we are moving forward at as fast as humanly possible uh to implement the the uh renovation and we're excited about that uh um we're g to we're going to address this in two pieces because I think there's little issue about the interior and what we are doing um Malcolm berer is going to present the architecture and then we'll come back and focus on the front yard discussion uh we believe that the the design that we presented is really important to the operational characteristics of this property the 1941 driveway either the 1939 or the 1941 driveway were for a hotel that totaled 100 rooms once it was expanded we're at 45 units this property I don't know if any of you know it but this property was part of the RFP that was put out that resulted in the Lowe's hotel and this hotel being constructed back in the 1990s this was stied as the African-American Hotel it was in fact awarded to Don Peebles and the city owned the property through the Redevelopment process there was a long long-term lease at the time it has since been sold with the city's approval um and is now in private ownership but it was actually a city-owned property as that Redevelopment occurred I actually was involved in it I'll give you a two second uh this story I was involved when we came in to get approval from the city who was the owner to demolish the Royal Palm and replace it and I met with each of the Commissioners I actually met on site with each of the commissioners ERS at the time and among the people I met with was Nancy um gosh I just threw a metal blank on her last name who um who was the preservation commissioner at the time and we walked in the front door as I was showing her the structure and why we needed to have this action taken she walked in she spent maybe three and a half minutes inside the structure looked up through the floors you could see up through three floors and she said I'm not staying in the building let's go back outside and talk about it anyway the long and the short of it is the Royal Palm that you see today is a reconstructed new structure but is still considered historically significant because it is a very accurate and most people uh driving down the street and fact most board members don't realize that it is a reconstructed U building one other thing we are not actually proposing to demolish anything in the front yard we'll come back to that we're talking about relocation uh facil uh features not demolition it was listed as demolition because they're in a different place but we'll come back and talk about that let me turn this over to Malcolm to talk to you about the architecture and the the upgrade of the property good morning good morning um malcomber president and design director of eoa group architecture from in Coral Gables Florida 1929 uh Pon ponon Boulevard C Gables um so we're here to talk about the Royal pal I've been given 7 minutes so it's going to be a very expedited presentation this is for you I've seen it before so if you want to stop me anytime please please feel free um it's important to think about when when I talk to my clients about uh architecture interior design I always tell them making something pretty is actually very easy you know you can look in Pinterest point at something and say let let's make that pretty making it function really well is actually where the rubber Mez Road making it intuitive making it flow well uh Making Connections lines of sites symbiosis of spaces all that is to me what makes a property function really really well the Royal Palm to us was uh about creating that intuitive flow everything we've done from the outside to the inside spaces and all the way to the backyard is creating intuitive flow and intuitive uh uh common connections of spaces that make those spaces work well so to that end let me start at the beginning um new day next wave I'm not going to bore you with the details of the concept uh let me take you right into content intervention and changes entry Drive New signage location pilasters moved to either side of the drive path water fountain pushed back and restored in drive drive path reconfiguration one of the biggest issues we have is the flow approaching the property every time a cab driver shows up or Uber comes in they literally go on the wrong path they sort of back up awkwardly on Collins go back in the flow is really quite terrible so even though it probably was built or or the staff thinks that it actually was built per the last uh photograph we believe that the original intention to have a single entry and a roundabout would have been a much better uh plan uh new flooring the lobby area that's beyond the compass rows addition of Lobby Bar and elevated floor slab that really creates a connection between the interior and the exterior you're going to see that in a second relocation of Lobby Circle rotar and stem vases to be used as artwork in the lobby that's part of the windows uh opening Windows to establish a connection to the exterior space again about connecting interior with exterior new location for reception desk bring it closer to the front new finishes throughout maintenance of existing historic elements in the lobby everything deemed historical has been maintained to the best of our knowledge facade building remaining as is new finishes throughout the Breezeway pool and pool restaurant so these are photographs these are historic photographs um that we found so far bottom left you can see uh the the driveway single drive and has drawn and in the microfish uh splitting with an island in the center and a roundabout at the end um pretty pinched at the time circulation wasn't as necessary vehicular uh require requirements weren't as heavy as they are today uh nor was congestion as as congested as it is today moving back into current photographs of the um of the space top left main entry looking at the pylons uh that Debbie was talking about a minute ago the water feed feat um between the two pylons on the top right hand side it's in pretty bad shape um the you can see the water blowing over right onto the uh path of travel where pedestrians are more often than not that water is actually off and the the Basin sort of dries out simply because of that uh that water uh blowing over um it's been painted and repainted and repainted and repainted it's got a really old patina to it at this point it just doesn't have great architectural significance other than the fact that it's historic that doesn't mean that we want it to go away by the way that just means that as it is right now it's not showcased as well as probably could be um sorry everything else in the facade stays exactly as is the the the signage the POR aare uh fenestration columns Windows uh uh everything pretty much stays exactly as is going in in through the entry Lobby uh you can see on the bottom right the significant feature is the old reception desk that's been repurposed back and forth in in different uh different manifestations that's going to be remaining as is the compass rows directly to the right of it and then as you walk in you see that shotgun entrance that takes you all the way to the back of the property so you really don't see daylight again until you get to the other end of the building which is pretty pretty Stark pretty severe uh the reception desk is moved is currently two bays away from the main entrance and that's something that we're going to be bringing back closer to the entry more supporting photographs this is now at the end of that long Corridor now you step up some stairs you get to the elevator Lobby and then you look to the right and that's your first connection to the exterior that's what we want to clean up I think we're here for a reason we're here to see daylight be be one with the elements uh and the exterior spaces so we want to make that much more connection much more palpable then we get to the exterior the Upper Terrace where the upper pool is right now uh the lower uh Breezeway uh that takes you back from that little moment where you came out in the elevators all the way down to the uh restaurant on the right hand side the restaurant is currently landlocked if you look at the plan you'll see it in a second it is landlocked between the bar the kitchen and the pool Beyond nobody wants to dine there you sit there you feel like you're in a you know Blue Cave there's no daylight there's no view there's no breeze so we're swapping those two out bringing the restaurant closer to the pool where you have a much better view now we look at the existing pool um not much is not not much of a there there uh the bar is very close to the pool you can see the bar right on the uh edge of the pool um with this sort of can't lever roof structure uh but there really isn't that much engagement with the pool space and just a quick cheat sheet as to what the photographs were uh on plan that we just uh looked at let's get through these quickly so now we're looking at the first floor demo plan everything you see in Orange is what we're proposing to demolish so interior nothing is historical that we're demolishing uh exterior we're talking mostly about FF and eBay on the pool but you can see where the pool restaurant uh and bar is directly on the right hand side that bar is the floating bar the restaurant would have been to the to the left of that in that little void not sure if I can point to that that would be right here where the restaurant is um the area that we're really going to be talking quite a bit about today is that water feature right there you see where the sidewalk is the wind the prevailing wind coming from the East blows all the water over onto the sidewalk so in the reconfiguration starting on the left hand side we're looking at entering with a single entry and that entry will probably have two exits and one entrance but I'll let I'll let the uh the engineers in the landscape Park talk a little bit more about that but then we're bifurcating again very similar to the original uh documentation that was provided with the uh with the um microfish coming in providing sort of a roundabout at the porker share so Vehicles can turn around enter into the parking down below and then exit in a much more intuitive fashion again making it as comfortable as intuitive as as humanly possible entering into the building everything in the first section stays as it I'm going to be actually going right into uh the the enlarged plans but we're going to be breaking down into four sections that takes us through the ballroom all the way to the pool on the right hand side same in the second floor this goes up onto the the second floor through the elevator Lobby in the center and then Parts on the left hand inside to meeting spaces on the right into the cookery restaurant the area that's dashed in Orange is the area that's going to be uh demolished so we still have the meeting space on the left hand side not doing much there and sort of expanding the restaurant all the way to the windows on the right hand side move your I'll I'll go faster we'll come back to that no problem at all uh Lobby take you right through the Breezeway pool areas ballrooms restaurant on the second floor I'm not sure why these are not picking up I'm not sure why this is not uh registering sometimes my oldfashioned ways with bringing boards is for a reason our renderings are not showing up in the presentation oh wait saw it for a second here we go okay all right let's start with this one probably taking a moment to to load up so this is the new rendering the idea would be to get that existing uh historical uh Fountain measure it down to a t this is not a complicated structure it literally is a rectangle with with with an additional little uh curve uh in the back move it back away from the sidewalk make it very prominent really come back with the beautiful uh uh Fountain elements that were were designed uh on day one but are now usually off uh and allowing it to have its presence in the center stage of the of the entry space uh so any overflow any spill over from the wind will not be affecting the sidewalk the pylons on either side could be retained as they are and they're uh uh pretty much in their existing location except that they might be moved sideways just a little bit I believe initially historically there had been four that's something that we need to talk about currently there are only two so you can see entering now entering on the right hand side coming all the way down uh uh as opposed to doing counterclockwise as it is done today entering into the space we go right into the what is what used to be historically the reception desk that's going to be retained with a compass rows on the right hand side now that now is going to be a coffee shop uh just a coffee bar very close to the entry really activating the entrance putting a very small uh discrete retail component and on the left hand side a communal table for people to come in open open iPads plug-in phones have a cup of coffee as we pass by the uh the the bar we bring the reception desk right next to the bar right on the other side So currently it's one Bay over we're bring it much closer to the entrance for that intuitive flow directly to the reception on the right hand side we'll have a Lobby lounge and opposite that Lobby Lounge will be the bar and I think there's a photograph on that side as well you need to see a little bit closer that Lobby Bar is now elevated and co- planer with the exterior so we're going from interior to uh exterior for indoor outdoor experience so as soon as you're at the reception desk now we're going to be looking directly at the outside you're going to get daylight uh uh immediately which is not the case today as you come out into the exterior now we've created a series of eddies of circulation uh lots of dappled shade uh beautiful new uh flooring uh fire pit directly off of the elevator Lobby and on the very very far end uh you see where that indoor outdoor bar is currently this is how far you need to walk before you get outside now we're getting you outside right at the lobby bar uh on the very far end of the image you can see the stairs that take you up to the meeting spaces Beyond lots of sea grapes lots of beautiful dappled light coming through and this is where the bar currently is to the right we're moving it to the left a little bit further away from the pool but connecting the pool and the uh the restaurant uh with a very uh sort of symbiotic relationship right next to the pool itself this is the restaurant and the bar on the left hand side dropping down cascading into the pool all we're adding to the pool is a Jacuzzi at at the end but keeping the same uh shape of the pool and that takes us to the outside to the boardwalk looking back at the pool deck and the um and the restaurant Beyond I think that's the end of the graphics presentation okay thank you very much um one thing Malcolm didn't mention is there's a there's an elevated pool on the second level that is actually being removed and that's becoming a multi-use space uh so there will no longer be a raised pool I I know our neighbors to the south at one point didn't like that pool very much it's it's going away um and it's really an extension of the of the restaurant on the on the second level outdoor Terrace um so just to I want our traffic engineer Adrian to come up and talk to you about the um the front yard which is obviously the discussion point with us we're all in agreement I think well I don't know if you are but staff and we are in agreement with everything else um couple just technical points and we'll I'm sure we'll talk about it further we are asking to relocate the pylons five feet further out toward the property lines if you look at the historic photograph there were four there were two right on the property line and then two that were centered we don't know I don't think any of them existed at the time this was redone in 1999 um I apologize but I think we need a little more time we are and we're proposing to relocate the fountain I don't believe the fountain is original because I was involved in 19 well 2000 when it was when we when we demoed the Royal Palm itself and rebuilt it but we will we will work with staff we'll document whether it is or isn't original if it's original assuming you approve it which you may not we will move that Fountain if it is original and repair it in its new location um if it's really new construction then I would submit we would ask to build another new facility um in the location we are we are proposing one really important thing that we haven't talked about is in the Redevelopment that happened at the end of the 90s early 2000s there was underground parking built underneath the back addition on the short cast property to the South there are 100 plus spaces valet under that building and their entrance and exit point is right in the corner here that dramatically changes the flow and the operation of what was once a historic front yard that was only for one building and had no other connections to it um it's it doesn't show up very well there let me show here um the there's a drive so there's the front and entrance there's a drive that goes down right here to underground parking that is the valet parking for this 400 room hotel now we also have several hundred parking spaces offsite in the 16th Street Garage um that that the city owns but we have an ement in it that was part of the original um so that's where a lot of the vehicles and the and the staff goes but that operational issue has a lot to do with the internal circulation let me turn it over to Adrian to talk to you about the operations good morning Adrian dekowski with kimley horn offices at two Hamra uh Plaza and Coral Gables so the proposed plan what we're looking at doing with it is resolving really three different issues um related to operations and safety um Florida Department of Transportation access spacing or the fdot has specific spacing guidelines for driveways as as well as valet circulation improving that condition so the existing operations and safety issues stem from the clockwise um circulation that exists on the on the site now um so essentially the Ingress driveway is located after the egress driveway so drivers not familiar with the site traveling Northbound on Collins tend to turn into the first driveway with you know rightand flow um keep right traffic and you're actually entering through the exit so you're conflicting with exiting vehicles and creating a unsafe condition um additionally when traffic is exiting the site through that South driveway the north driveway the entry only being 25 ft away traffic is slowing down to enter so there's a chance for exiting traffic to actually rear end the traffic that's entering the site because it's the clockwise circulation versus um counterclockwise so what we're proposing to do with the um site is to consolidate the driveways into one access condition where we eliminate those unsafe conditions for um entering traffic traffic entering through the wrong way as well um this also will help improve the valet circulation which I'll get into um in a minute what we also do with the configuration is is solve the fdot access um concerns so fdot maintains Collins Avenue they have um spacing criteria that they provide for Collins Avenue it's 125 ft in between driveways so the current site um has a 32% variance to the South the loading driveway that's used for the Royal Palm um to the north um the driveways are actually the nearest driveway is 170 ft so there's no variance needed there but then there's also the issue of the in andout driveways being spaced 25 ft apart so when we look at our proposed condition um we improve that South variant um to the South driveway it improves from 32% to 15% um with the distance being reduced to um or increased to 100 and and six feet between those driveways which this results in something that we can get from fdot administratively usually 15% is the cut off um to get an administrative approval rather than having to go through a separate variance hearing for that how much more time do you think your team needs I have two more sides just to talk about a couple more but then is there somebody after you minutes okay answer questions I think of course no I'm not just in your presentation maybe three minutes so getting into the valet circulation with the current plan uh the valley trips um for pickup they actually have to exit out onto Collins travel on the external roadway Network to then go back to the portica share for people to to pick up their car so you have this unnecessary trip having to circulate on the external roadway network with our proposed plan those valet trips are all internalized so valet pickup trips the the valet just takes the car right out of the garage brings it to the portica share and then the vehicle exits the site for valet drop off it's also internalized because we have that extra Loop um towards Collins Avenue but all internal to the site um back to you Carter um I think you I mean I think you can see we've tried to come up with something that is responsive and we believe respectful of the historic condition at the property keeping the pylons keeping the fountain but coming up with a circulation that is safer and more efficient for what is in fact a very large hotel that was originally a very small hotel that originally had no other parking other than parallel parking on the front driveway um and no other connection so our our current situation is much more complicated than the a stark uh and the staff has suggested well just reverse the flow on the loop so that you enter on the south and exit on the North that doesn't work because we can't get cars back into the valet without going back out on comp again um and you know that's a problem uh it you know we solve it by having an internal uh loop on the property um so that valet doesn't impact Collins Avenue at all um and we think that's a much better place for all of us because it's not if you've been there that's a very busy section of Collins Avenue the more we can do to make it better the better it is for everybody um we do think we're respectful we're here to answer questions we're sorry we took quite so much time but wanted to address the issues um Arthur Marcus is here too I will tell you we're not convinced that the original didn't get built in the very first nobody knows there's a drawing that shows a single entry and we know two years later it wasn't there whether it ever got implemented or not nobody can tell um but the time the configuration of the property because it is also a Convention Center Hotel property has changed dramatically with that we're here to answer your questions great thank you very much um yes Lindsay yes questions for the applicant please okay uh for the applicant um so I have a handful um uh so you talked a little bit about why the Ingress was on the North side I mean we talked about the confusing counterclockwise circulation I agree it's confusing but I think that's kind of a self-imposed condition as it is I mean you look at it your natural inclination would be to go in the South entrance and exit the north um I was looking at it now and it's been a while since I walked over there although I I used to be in and out of that hotel quite regularly um I would go to the restaurant the bar the pool the beach the beach chairs um and my parents actually stayed there when they would come to visit um looks like there are pavers um existing in um kind of West of like the portare um and I thought that had been used for turnaround purposes um within the property is is that accurate it's I don't know I couldn't find in the presentation an existing condition that reflected that or an aerial um George um do we have the existing condition George I think you're asking is there an existing turnaround in here today I mean I'm looking at the aerial and map is the best I can do at this point I think their answer is there is a I think a single Lane that crosses through there that again is attempting to address the problem with the valet being using that corner turns out that corner location creates a lot of complications in terms of the circulation that where it goes underground underneath the the new part of the shore crest um and I the reason they are they have been operating with the north as the entry is so that valet can go directly into the garage because when you come the other way the drop off point is past the entry you have to circulate back through um but it is I've personally watched quite a few cars pull in the wrong way into the wrong driveway and then back out into Collins Avenue it's it's an issue so I I don't and and I think typically our procedure is I don't want to take the chair's uh you know go ahead goad but normally we kind of get our questions out and then we can do it however you'd like if you'd like the questions answered right away like some of us do then you okay that's fine I just didn't want to okay um I can add to to your question go George PG ly Park de with Kim Le horn Associates uh offices to aamra Plaza cor Gables so if you if you look at the existing conditions the Pavements there but it's too tight for somebody to be dropped off and then the valet be able to do a 180 back in it's just horizontally it doesn't work so it looks like it the space is there but it really you can't make that turn that's it is now okay okay okay um um my next question this is towards um kimley horn um related to um you mentioned the fot guidelines with regard to the the driveway entrances and you you used the word guidelines so that's my understanding it is a guideline not a requirement they're guidelines but you have to get a variance for them so it's a formal process that you go through with the access management committee correct so they call it guidelines but it's it's essentially it's Bing guidelines yes unless you get a variance all right I let me finish my comment um please thank you um but there is no variance required for an existing condition so as it stands the entrances if they were to stay you don't have to seek any sort of variance because it exists is that accurate if we don't do anything and they stay as is with the clockwise circulation then we don't we don't have to go back to them correct I mean could you I I'm just setting aside the the question of La for just a moment I could it be changed to a counterclockwise circulation without any need to go back to fot about it no as as soon as we would modify that circulation we'd have to go back to them and then we still when you change that circulation it still requires the 32% variance because that South driveway when we go to the South to the Loading driveway that that distance is still it's the same distance regardless of whether it's clockwise or counterclockwise circulation so to change the circulation within your own property you have to go to fdat to get approval yes okay um oh I have sorry um you have more yes I do um I just one thing that I didn't fully understand um the presentation about the interior I might have heard you wrong did you say that the the reception test is two days b b b b it sounded like days and then I thought it was B I just accent it feels like two days but it's only Bay a descriptor okay that was my question okay anybody else have questions for the applicant I okay ask uh you cited there were a number of safety concerns over the years how many documented cases have you had over accidents occurring because of the current layout we we have not looked into pulling um those counts we'd have to get the police department involved and typically as a private applicant it's something the city would be be able to pull easier because of the liability associated with with those reports or potential liability they typically don't provide that to private entities so right now we don't know exactly how unsafe the current conditions are correct so the driveway currently is in a clockwise rotation correct correct and you cited that it would be difficult to put it in a counterclockwise because of the stacking of the car on Collins Avenue is that what I understand no going to the counterclockwise is intuitive for drivers because you enter the driveway first um and then you exit through the north so that's that's the preferred um but you're showing it as a single entry and exit where it could be individual entry and exit one on the south one on the north right correct that's the point that we were discussing previously that if you just flip the the circulation we would still need the to get the fdot variants to the driveway to the South so I'm not clear on the issue of the parking Arrangements where you say you'd have to pull out into Clown's Avenue right so the the problem if you just take the existing condition and you reverse the flow you enter on the south you drive past the valet entrance and you drop off past the valet entrance the valet would pick up the car at the front of the hotel and have no ability to get back into the valley why not why can't you create a a driveway in Med the landscape strip is only like 15 ft wide you can't get a turning radius to make a turn through that narrow that narrow the property excuse me it's 50 ft your driveway is what 18 or 22 feet uh 22 I believe 22 okay so if it's 5050 ft most cars can make it turning radius within 40 ft I so we we if you look at um the ashto guidelines um within the greenbook so that's what we use to prepare maneuverability analyses so the passenger vehicle is a 19t long vehicle which granted that's that's a larger SUV um and it's even conservative there because the larger SUVs are typically 182 ft long um that diameter that we need to make that maneuver is 49 ft from edge to edge so as part of the um analysis that we prepared we and laying out the proposed site we prepared a maneuverability analysis to ensure that we could the valet Vehicles would be able to drop off um in the drop off area and then be able to circulate can you use the mic okay you got the mic so valet Vehicles will be able to pull in here pull up to to this area and then they're taken back this way or they could even come down here and come around in into this area here to drop off and then go into the garage same when they're when they come out of the garage they can stock here or they can come around this way and stock and go into these spaces for additional stocking the landscap mic on the mic please on the mic please if the landscape is continuous all the way to the street as it is today the only place to turn around other than potentially trying to create a drive through the existing condition is back out on and that's what happens today if you're on site the valet ends up back on the street to turn and get either to go back to the front because today they come out they do this to drop off when they're when they're returning the car it that would reverse itself in the other condition if this is a continuous uh band all the way to the street so if I may and I think this is wait wait one sec one sec are you finished no I I I'm simply not buying what you're saying I can't see it because your landscape areas at the entry if you were to eliminate those and create those in the middle of the driveway I don't see what the issue is why not why you can't make that turn you you show it there so in in this graphic here um this is the current circulation pattern where the valet pickup vehicles have to come out onto Collins and then come into the portica share if we reverse that circulation you pull into the the portica share drop your car off the valet then takes your car and has to travel down get onto Collins you'd actually you wouldn't be able to make that left you'd have to make a right go up somewhere make a U-turn come back down and then make a left into the site to then get into the garage if we reverse that circulation so there's there's no internal place to to fulfill both the valley drop off or pickup so reversing the flow with that current scheme either the valley drop off trip is impacted or the valley pickup trip is impacted wait but just wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait just I know you're ask you finished with your are you it this is a questioning time for the applicants we'll have times to discuss this ourselves but but you're welcome to continue with your questions you have the floor I I I just don't see this is your proposed layout correct correct Excuse me yes that's correct you're making a turn between the islands that that is true we are making a turn here because it's not doing this it's going straight into you can shift that you can return you can shift that entry to the left to the West can you not and and still have entry on the south side and an exit on the North side I'm you're saying we could move this the answer is the it's probably possible I I'm not going to say it's not it's probably possible to create a a circulation where we drop off here it's a very tight turn I mean we moved it here to be able to make the turn so the reason why this is so wide is so that we have a stocking lane and then we can have a bypass lane so the vehicles aren't stuck behind one another okay this is do you did you get your clarifications I understand think yes I do too I think many of us many of us do thank thank you for that line of questioning did you want to jump in Lindsay and yeah so I'm just I'm going to tag on to that I think the question that it seems many of us have is you have your existing condition you have your proposed condition and then the staff recommendation which is kind of somewhere in between and that's what we're asking is what besides the guideline and seeking some sort of variants that you say that you have to do to reverse the uh the flow within your property um what prevents you from having the two entrances and maintaining the front entrance as it is which and I will'll get to that at some point later in comment preserves the existing pylons The Fountains The Pedestrian interaction at that space you know because we're losing all of that and pulling it back in and taking that away from you know The Pedestrian walking by they're not going to wander under your property to go look at the fountain most likely and you probably don't want them to but having that at The Pedestrian level where there's an interaction between the honestly it's one of the things that I've always loved about the front entrance of this building and so I my question is what stops you from having the existing North and South entrance reversing the flow but reconfiguring the internal landscape in order to allow your turnaround within the property that's my question does that sum it up I think okay I think the answer oops yes I think the answer is that's possible it's not what the staff recommended the staff recommended just reversing the flow okay all right no let me I just need to clarify that we are saying that it would be okay to create that Loop within the property to get the valet back to the garage okay all right great um thank you for responding to the questions thank you for the questions uh now we're at board disclosures are there any uh disclosures on this did anybody no no no no no okay uh we're opening to public hearing um I see no one on Zoom please raise your hand if you'd like to speak on Zoom I see Daniel Caldo yes hi thank you Daniel Caldo with Miami Design preservation League uh we do appreciate the comprehensive Investments being made to the hotel which will include significant Rehabilitation and restoration but as for the proposed change on the driveway is we do fall in favor of staff's position we did look at the Historical documentation we see a very specific Rhythm of the entry way this was a time when cars were becoming extremely popular for the mass market and so having that original entry way it's very glamorous um maybe it would be better to preserve but maybe reconfigure somehow but we do know it is a challenge uh and we look forward to all of you figuring it out thank you um Mr chair I see no other members of the public okay all right well um now we will open it up to board comment and Ray why don't we start with you and we'll we'll go up here and this is not board questioning for the applicant this is just board talking to board members one of the things is that when I've gone to this hotel and I walked from the street in there's no real pathway that say says this is how I should get into the hotel you're walking down a driveway um uh to get in and I don't see where that's been solved here either um I mean that you can't expect that everybody that's coming to that hotel is coming in a car no this is not board comment this is not applicant com but that still brings you back to a it still brings you back yes you get a sidewalk you're still going to back back into a road and that sidewalk does not take you all the way to the front door okay thank you right hll do you want to add anything to your um line of inquiry okay no it was not a dissertation Laura um thank thank you again for the presentation the Interiors are gorgeous I I love them um looks beautiful and um wish you guys all the best in the project but I do agree with staff recommendations regarding um the front entrance so I would be supportive of that today great Brian would you like to um I'm a I'm unresolved on on the the flow in the interior I think has brought up some really great points and um in conjunction with Lindsay I guess they you know kind of suggested some other uh possible solutions I suppose H and also I I do have could you take us back oh we're not in the we're done with questions we're done but if you have a if you have some a special request go for well because I I am sensitive to this arrival experience from a pedestrian point of view to to Ray point and I I agree I don't this property I don't know if it's the signage I don't know if it's like that that long expanse that you know just feels kind of uh never ending but it and I and I see we're looking at the proposed here but it does appear that that sidewalk looks more of an afterthought and I'm curious in terms of signage in terms of signaling and wayfinding and all of those things what you're going to do there because I I was looking in the plans and I didn't see it so so we have two options so this is one option right coming across but remember there's also an option to the north so between the lows and our property we do have a poic walk that takes you to the beach walk right that's the beach access though that's the beach access so we open it up here and both a ramp and a steps so that you can use that existing Beach axis to come to the front directly to this plasa area so yeah yeah it does right here well it shows an opening it doesn't really yeah these are steps in a ramp that takes you up on your on the mic if you I mean it's the same question I have how do you know from a wayfinding perspective in those whether you're on the you know north side of the street or on the south side of the street how do you understand that that is where you're going to enter we can easily add some way finding on both sides you know direcly you over or when you leave the property to go you know when you arrive and you leave the property you you clearly can see these um so waying and on the south side is what is there signage that's going to be there now in that with that proposed sidewalk on this one is there is there rendering of that or no okay I guess I'm having a hard time because there aren't renderings of of these things and they are issues that I think people have when they're entering okay thank you very much Lindsay did you have anything you want to add can I just make a really quick point to that I got to tell you guys and I I we have no vested financial interest in doing this other it's going to cost a client more money to do this than to leave it as is much cheaper to leave it as is put another cat of pain on that Fountain move forward the arrival experience coming into the property with that fountain in the center of the Palms the very intuitive flow uh you know exactly where you're going once you're driving into that that single Drive currently with the double drives and no clear path of travel to the property it's very counterintuitive for pedestrians and for traffic thank you so that's that's my point thanks yes lindsy okay so um I want to address the counterintuitiveness I agree it's counterintuitive but I think anybody would say it's counterintuitive to go in and go counterclockwise I mean just or go clockwise rather I mean it just it is unless there's a one-way street that tells you like I mean my my building downtown oneway street so you enter on the like left side it's very weird but other than that type of situation it's very counterintuitive to have the type of flow that you have right now so I think reversing the flow period end of story resolves that because anybody who's approaching on the Northbound Lanes of Collins is going to see the sign Royal Palm and want to turn there and you know the sign that you have sitting there at least in the Google Maps image and I've seen it before right it's just a little B he says do not enter you know um so I think reversing the flow resolves the counterintuitiveness um resolves it and makes it more intuitive it's probably the better statement um I do you know I I do give Credence to the discussion about The Pedestrian access I mean I feel like I've always I've probably ubered there so didn't do a whole lot of walking up the driveway but that's a fair point um you know I and obviously using the public beach access and giving and the entrance um I would say at the very least you know my preferred solution here would be closer to staff recommendation um which maintains the two driveways maintains The Pedestrian The Pedestrian experience from a passer by and and that's that's what I was talking about right as as a passers passer by you see the spound you see the big entrance you know you see the the pylon you see the big signage um the Royal Palm you look up at it I mean it's it is a very outspoken inance I guess um and so from a pedestrian perspective that going onto the property um whether that is addressed by some sort of signage um on the public beach access that suggests that you know to access the r Palm by foot this is the way that you go I don't even know that that would be possible so that's kind of one question because if that's one of the suggestions certainly if that's possible and there's signage that can be implemented there then opening up that access on the the East Side closest to the building from the beachwalk uh not beachwalk excuse me The Pedestrian beach access would be possible regardless of whether you keep the two Drive entrances or a single entrance I I would say right I'm getting some head nods so I think that's accurate um and then you know but I would be interested I I I don't know I I'm curious if because you looked at this as setting the fountain back and creating those islands in the center of the Landscaping um I don't know if at any point it was considered okay leave the fountain where it is leave the pylon where it is maintain the existing two driveways but incorporate some turnaround so you knowjust the landcaping appropriately on property to to um to create the valet the circulation that we need um the counterclockwise and then the turnarounds um but any sort of um you know sidewalk or walkway or something that would encourage your pedestrians not only the people who are coming to visit that are passers by who want to go into the hotel but also your guests who have left um the hotel and gone out into Miami Beach for the day and want to return back um what their pathway is and I don't know if something like that could be incorporated into that Center landscape where there's a grand walkway entrance there right so come around the fountain on foot and then approach into the the building I'm not a landscaped architect I'm not an expert on this but something like that to bring them in and you know maybe this the Side Access is better from a pedestrian interaction with cars perspective I don't know um but those are things that I feel like are missing today um take that one step further if you look at the SLS Hotel they have a double wide entry cars coming in cars coming out as a pedestrian you take your life in your hands walking with somebody trying to pull in somebody trying to pull out and you've got a very long walkway and now so it's next to a corner uh if there was a separation there at least you as a pedestrian would have a place to stop in between somebody pulling in somebody pulling out um I I I really agree with Lindsay that um if you just change your your your counterclockwise clockwise and redo what you do inside and keep the nice Fountain out there that a pedestrian walks by and says how nice uh I I think that's the best way to go we're um okay I'll just finish up the board comment here uh I I think this is this hotel the work that you're doing inside is incredible um the way you're opening this up I've done I've taken that long stroll from front to back and wondered when it was going to when I was going to see the outside and then I think you've discovered kind of how to how to bring that all together in such a such a beautiful way and so you're you're doing great things for your for your guests and I will certainly want to station there some point but I I also think that the that this hotel has a huge in its existing configuration of the of the driveway has gives something to back to Collins Avenue that it otherwise doesn't have almost anywhere else which is the um which is the Fountain and so I was going back to the order and looking at c1a uh where the staff has written about written in the order about the US shaped driveway configuration shall be maintained which I agree with with the exception of modifications to the landscape Central Area to allow cars to Circle back to the garage entrance which I agree with which we've been talking about making that the valet turn the garage turn and but they didn't say that but I think we should add if we're going to think about this um to reverse the direction of the driveway which wasn't included in that and also to add um a clarification of the Walk walkable entrance which is also not in the order and I think one thing that we should do definitely is what you guys so smartly did which was to open the beach access to on that side to allow pedestrians to come in through that um through the beach access that you provided there might also be other options that I I'm not sure whether Debbie would be and her team would be willing to do this administratively look at administratively other options for um pedestrian pedestrian entrances in that in that landscape um if that were the uh the possibility so my yeah so I'm I Mr chair and um I'm thinking that that's uh that that's kind of where we should probably um that's where I would land on this uh if I were going to be uh putting a motion together but I am may I simplify that um just one second we've closed the we've closed the comment I think I can simplify the discussion though okay all right to we're okay with the staff condition to working with staff to come up with the recirculation inter inside but we absolutely need the city's support we will have to go get a DOT variant to be able to do it and we absolutely need the city to join us in that process to ask for that re the re reconfiguration but that variance because dot can deny it we could be in a situation where you give us an approval that we cannot Implement and that is a problem I would also note if you look at the the the aerial photographs okay this the the width of the fountain and the two pylons does not leave space for a walkway on either side UND that's why it doesn't exist today if there was space to do it we would do it I mean but it's just not there physically um we will with we absolutely will open that to the access anyway we accept with that limit with that addition we would accept the condition staff condition and appreciate your approval thank you and and just to follow up with Carter um I can certainly draft a letter of support on behalf of the historic preservation board um for any F do variants for the driveway I think I don't know if you need our transportation department to also take a look at it to see if they object I think they initially looked at it when we had our when when we had our earlier meetings um so I cannot speak on behalf of our transportation department but certainly I think the board's comments so far are very clear that yes we could provide you with a letter of support and it would be helpful to have transportation support to if the city would do that and and I can help facilitate a meeting with with Transportation once that if if we're going in that direction once that application has been filed so um can I get a motion on this I'll make a motion to approve this with the staff recommendations and is that with the additional clarification and c1a that the directional vehicular traffic flow may be reversed oh yeah yeah to a counterclockwise Direction me to a clockwise counterclockwise clockwise would yes counterclockwise right and I had another I heard some other comments Ray I'm not sure if you would like to include any enhancement of pedestrian um pedestrian entrance to for the applicant to explore with staff um enhancements I think they made it clear enough okay we'll work with you in the redesign of the of this Central landscape if we can figure out a way to do it we'll do it we'd rather have it could I make a friendly amendment to that Ray I would like to see them open up some sort of access from the beach walk it's it's in the plan it's but it's in the plans where they reconfig the driveway so that's why I you know um that's would you consider adding that the board strongly supports the dot variants in order to allow it to happen please I have no problem with that I think what we could say is that staff would cooperate with the applicant um in in its request to fot for is it is Carter you've been saying variance but it's that's the term that the application is for a variant variance from the design standards that are actually binding I mean I think that would be consistent with with the board's approval today so what do you think Debbie yeah I mean it's it's a bit strange to have as a condition of the order um but I mean I have no problem saying on behalf of the historic preservation board staff will work with the applicant um to support support their application their application do for the variance of the driveway but that doesn't have to be in the motion correct it could be a separate motion it could be in the order Nick you're okay with that in the order I'm okay with I don't have a problem um I also think that if the if fot denies the request I think the applicant would need to come back to the board yeah yes we will right yeah okay I accept the friendly amendments and just to clarify the beachwalk access to the property would be on the north side of the property okay yes there a second I'll second it since I made friendly am or wait I guess I made friendly Amendment so is it now my motion or do I second raise you second okay I'll second it okay let me call the role Mr Meyer yes Mr Erick yes Miss Weinstein Burman yes Miss level yes Mr Brin yes Mr Stewart yes thank you thank you for okay the next application on the agenda is HPB 24625 uh this is 947 Lincoln Road an application has been filed requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the renovation of the existing building including facade modifications um I think uh all of you will remember this um particular project did come before you at our May meeting of this year uh for a preliminary evaluation um from this board uh the the focus of that preliminary evaluation was with regard to the introduction of a kind of a sloted wood facade treatment within the windows that would be more consistent with the proposed operational plan of what we hopefully are going to have as a as a new um successful restaurant unlink Road um during that conversation the board was generally supportive of the proposal and uh didn't have any significant comments that staff had noted other than uh additional you know details of how that would be accomplished would need to be submitted for the review of this board that preliminary evaluation was well received however there was no there was not a binding approval or decision made at that at that meeting the applicant is currently before you as a full application to receive um a binding decision by this board um most of you are probably familiar with the building uh it is is very old structure it was constructed in 1925 originally it's a one and two-story um structure uh the two-story portion is along the rear of the property and invisible from Michigan Avenue um in 1930 8 there were some significant modernization um of the facades that was designed by El Murray Dixon so this building is very interesting it has multiple um significant layers of architecture that that exist today um there were some also after Dixon's modifications there were multiple tenants that were in and out of this building and additional small modifications to the storefronts have been made over time um staff would note that this building um has received in the past a few different approvals from this board uh unfortunately and this this goes back 10 years um for the renovation of this building none of those projects uh were permitted or came into reality so the building has remained vacant for over 5 years um not withstanding those previously approvals um when staff originally met with the proposed um Team for this project uh we were very excited and um somewhat relieved that this building is being proposed to be turned into active use um this building has been um has had some minor repairs done to it over the past five years but um you know I walk by it all the time and several years ago there was some major concern with portions of the building actually crumbling and falling into into the sidewalk which is why there was a a fence built into the sidewalk uh to protect passer by um I think one of the interesting things is and we had noted this in the previously approvals on the interior of the building originally this structure had the pecky cyer ceiling which is a very indicative um historically characteristic material that you see in buildings from the 1920s and staff did find it appropriate that the facade treatment that is new is proposed to kind of reflect that so I think that was a very creative um concept that that's being proposed um and we're we're generally supportive uh we're also supportive of the proposal to while privacy is important to the operational plan we were very supportive to have the front of the building that that is visible from Lincoln Road actually turned into a display kitchen there's actually um we noted in the in the plans there's a table also in there um for I guess very special guests would be able to sit there um and we are just really excited that that this building's going to get the much needed repairs it's going to get new windows um and again we're excited to see more activity returned to Lincoln Road uh in the past we've seen a a few restaurants very successful restaurants populate Lincoln road but the majority of those have been at the upper levels um so we really believe that this will be beneficial not only to the existing structure um getting much needed repairs and and reinforcement but also to Lincoln Road as a whole so uh we are recommending approval we also have noted that you know all of these attachments could be easily removed in the future should a a a different project be proposed are there thank you Debbie are there any any questions for Debbie about the um about the presentation Debbie I had a just had a couple questions Lindsay did you have a question um one was you you mentioned the um the the stucco reveal that you'd like on the demarcating on on the Michigan Avenue side the stair up to the second floor did I presume there will be a door there no there's yeah there's a door indicated there but you mean the arch over to the top of the door yeah so thank you for and I believe it was yesterday if not early this morning the applicant did uh respond to my comment directly to me um and did show me what they're proposing um I'll let them get in more into that but I I believe it did satisfy our our recommendation and I one one other question uh you mentioned the um you'd mentioned the the equipment inside like a shelf inside that you thought would get would become cluttered has there been any have you had any other thoughts on that or what you we I haven't discussed that um I think what we're asking for is just the the reorientation so that the narrow side is fronting the the sidewalk area and so it doesn't broadside that window get populated with you know whatever restaurant supplies they have and completely block out that view okay all right lindsy did did you have anything for yeah so I wanted to if if staff can discuss a little bit as I recall when they came for a preliminary recommendation when they were before us in May um was it that the pecky Cyprus was going to be behind the glass like the the glazing itself that's the what I understood and so I'm just curious kind of how that evolved and how we got here if you can speak to that to the extent you know yeah and I I I think when staff had originally kind we went out to the site and talked I was under the impression that it was going to be applied to the exterior I believe the preliminary evaluations indicated that it it appeared at least in the plans they submitted for that uh evaluation that the Cyprus was going to be installed on the inside of the building so I think your recollection is absolutely correct um but again reviewing both of them I don't have a problem with with the details they've shown including the section of of placing it on the exterior um I would be comfortable with either of those options I think the important point to note is that we will be getting new windows um they will be more resilient hurricane impact Windows um so we're supportive and so maybe I missed that are are there actually Windows behind this pecky Cyprus now okay thanks I I I think I missed that in the process so I just wanted to understand that that there are windows going to be installed and not just you know closing them in thanks yeah yeah no I can see it you can see it in the section there and the thing okay would you like to present all right you look like you're signaling to me to begin was trying okay very good good morning uh ladies and gentlemen of the board my name is Paul Savage with LW is at 200 South biscane Boulevard Miami Florida I'm here representing the applicant this morning on item number five on this morning's agenda uh before I get into our presentation which we have loaded up I want to be sure and recognize and uh express my appreciation to the board uh if you remember as Debbie said we were here in May on a non-binding preliminary evaluation uh we've spent a lot of time and money to be sure and make sure that everyone in the community with this board being the most important body understands who we are uh what we propose and what we're doing at this site uh so with that in mind I'm not going to go into our whole corporate background Etc as we did last time we demonstrated that we have multiple locations all over the country and internationally uh uh so that I'm going to get right into the design before I do that however I do want to also recognize our team members that are here today uh Adam Corral is here to my right he's a vice president of the hwood group which will be operating the nice guy restaurant proposed for this location uh he was able to get a flight out from LA and Dodge the hurricane and come out here with us uh he's he's joined today uh by John sopio who is their uh principal architect and designer uh nationally and internationally on all their uh sites um who had a great deal of input on this design and of course we have Jose Gomez uh right behind me who is our architect of record and I know that you're familiar with his excellent excellent work so with that I'm going to go ahead and go through uh some of the changes and some of the things that happened as between our preliminary evaluation in March and may sorry and today uh you know where the uh where the location is of course uh they're on lincol road uh the long Frontage on Michigan this is uh two blocks to the uh East of Alton Road there fronting Lincoln uh as Debbie mentioned there's a 1925 19242 original uh construction here there is a slide uh of a 1934 35 uh modern treatment that came in with a uh 45 degree angle door after this original 90 degree angle configuration shown here uh the uh existing condition has much to be desired to put it politely it's been there in excess of five years as the staff report reflects it's essentially boarded up and is in a um not not activating Lincoln Road in the business Community as it should uh to put it mildly uh here's another shot here we're within the Flamingo Park historical district historic district rather of course along uh Lincoln Road we are excited as Debbie mentioned to bring a new the nice guy location here with a full refurbishment of this building uh as as a distinction of some of the other applications I saw today we are maintaining the the building envelope we're not you know going up additional stories or anything like that uh Debbie and her staff were closely monitored and insisted Upon Our show kitchen and down to the granular level of what equipment with be permissible there we have an imported Italian pizza oven we have imported Italian mix mixers and other equipment we're going to make pasta and this is going to be a great great addition this is very exciting and so uh we have committed to that we've reassured Debbie and her staff that we will be bringing in those things uh to activate and give a visual point of interest to the passers by along Lincoln uh we will have V and loading operations along uh Miss M Avenue again uh Adam I I introduced our team uh these are some of the other locations again I won't we we truncated this from our prior presentation but we we I did want to reemphasize we've got a track record we've got beautiful Sumptuous locations all over the world uh this is the Delila in Miami on Brickle uh we've got there's one in Vegas uh Los Angeles um the nice guy itself is sort sort of a midcentury modern madman or Rat Pack if you will one of the younger lawyers in my office said what's the Rat Pack and so uh we had to give a little history lesson on that but um I think we do have a piece of the wood that is the uh we've discussed the Cyprus which we're going to honor for the exterior uh the interior uh is a cedar actually um if you could just hold that up uh just so that you can get a visual here but that's a actually a cedar wood that's critical to the design there in uh in the one in Los Angeles um there's the bar here um now into the nitty-gritty of our um of our changes and elevations um again I uh we we have our uh uh we have our architect here if you have any technical questions uh but just to briefly go over this the uh top elevation along Michigan you can see that we had a uh individualize storefronts there with each one of them had its assigned door that went to the ground of course to have a door um we felt like since we're going to be One Singular uh tenant and one restaurant and one operator uh that really broke up the visual um and so you'll see the bottom elevation there with uh we've taken out all those doors put in a nice consistent knee wall that comes along the bottom uh and gives really a nice pleasing aesthetic along there uh we do maintain two of the doors that we need the one to on the left hand side of the page which is the most northern end on Michigan uh will be our host station that's where the public will come in and out and then the door in the middle will be a back of the house um entrance or service entrance that our employees will be able to use uh this is an existing condition uh looking uh to the South uh looking along Michigan you can see the deplorable uh what's left there of the facade and and of the existing Windows essentially boarded up here um and then this rendering in dramatic contrast shows a nice clean approach uh we've actually just to give a little more detail on the thinking Behind These scones and how this came to the exterior Etc we went ahead with the Cypress uh covering uh for the doors and the uh windows and really in celebration of these brows of or the the top uh curvature of each of the windows we brought in these sconces which will without breaking or puncturing any of the uh of the existing um elevation there or the existing wall so we're going to we we're going to actually have those installed and then they'll throw light up in celebration of of the existing windows and keeping keeping that shape going going down the street I think in a really nice way and it's going to match our signage and our Decor uh there this is a uh Debbie mentioned the uh the uh the detail here um where and and by the way this is this is removable as noted in the architectural drawings it is removable when when and if that time comes uh we do have a uh we do have also an example of the of the wood lattice system um that's here uh now this is not this is Cypress it's not stained um so it's a little lighter uh but it's a mockup that we wanted to show you and it will have these um various uh depths of each of the lattice pieces uh so we have that here if you'd like to look at it now for the site plan itself I did want to say that what because of um our Collective work with Debbie and her staff we have the show kitchen up front which is beautiful and activate Lincoln Road but it kind of flipped the whole traditional design where you'd have the restaurant up front and the kitchen in the back we have a kitchen in the front so are the what you see in Gray is the kitchen area and the quote back of the house which is now in the front of the house in this unusual design uh the the glass will remain on Lincoln and importantly on Michigan on that corner uh and then you have the entry like I said the host station is back towards uh the Michigan side uh but we will maintain those windows those will have awnings uh with with uh signage and they'll all be matching uh this is a picture of the or rendering rather of the show kitchen again um Debbie was quite insistent this had to be a very uh refined space uh we don't want um you know a bottle of Dawn dishwashing detergent out here or anything like that this is going to be um you know dessert finishing pot pasta homemade pasta making bread making and pizza baking which I'm uh I think I don't know about you guys but I'm I'm getting hungry watching this in advance of the delivery of your lunch but um uh more seriously this uh this will be quite cure rated and ready for Prime Time viewing as would any um even if this was a retail show uh you know more of a retail space and would have a uh a window showing like that so um uh Debbie did uh and of course we would want to anyway require a if I could have through the chair just a few minutes I'm coming around the horn I promise uh John and so uh Debbie was um insistent or we would do anyway also have a licensed professional engineering report uh the uh structural the building is not in good shape in in any category including structural so the engineer is uh recommending and we are are going to have to come in with a steel beam system to ensure the rigidity and strength of the uh of the structure to maintain it um we will preserve the contributing structure we will use the Cypress and the cedar as discussed um uh we have uh broad support of all the other uh business members we have the uh uh business improvement district will be here today testifying on our behalf they put a letter uh of support into the record uh we do have the uh a successful operator we're excited to get this uh implemented um staff recommendation is highly supportive uh I do want to uh go ahead and hand out um we came up at sort of the 11th hour with some uh renderings to address uh a couple of concerns um one of them is the existing uh the existing uh door that's along Michigan we will celebrate that door with a stucco reveal in the manner that Debbie staff recommendation requested um and so we have that uh there we're going to we're going to have our signage there and and and keep that curve and likewise on the corner uh Dan Caldo will be coming forward to testify on behalf of his committee who we met with and presented and they had a concern about the corner door being discontinued uh our position on that is that we we understand that concern we believe that we've more than adequately mitigated this problem with the show kitchen which does really activate Lincoln Road all of the regulation on us for that um together with sort of an homage we are going to put in some uh a molding and a framing with our signage as not to just leave a wall okay so that it would be uh uh somewhat Grand there as you go around the corner um W with that I will conclude our uh presentation again we have all of our design professionals here um I think uh I do have I I noticed this guy behind my left Michael Lin you may have heard of him he's available if you have any legal questions uh but we're we're principally excited uh we have our our physical uh physical examples that you can touch uh our team is here I'm here so with that we will conclude and we will will respectfully request a favorable action on a certificate of appropriateness from this board thank you so so much thank you very much um so now we go to board questions of the applicant um any are there any questions um okay Laura and then I'll go down this this road Laur Laura is gonna go first just the only question I have is when you you just sent us this nice little thing and it says the nice guy right there on the corner there's going to be a lot of people that are like trying to figure out where the door is you going may have a little arrow or something to tell them that your main entrance is way down the street uh my my my my applicant my client my client is uh let the record reflect that he's uh rigorously shaking his head in the affirmative and so obviously we want that to be you know he says yes I mean my my I'm not in charge but my two cents would be we're absolutely happy to do it and but we'll have to come up with something very creative that is part of the metal you know that that you know gives it not just a a red arrow or something but yes we'll do which I know you're not suggesting so yeah we're happy to do that great Laura yeah just a couple of okay comments if I may uh I'm very well aware of how important the signage is but as you're driving up I guess this is what um Jefferson what street is Michigan heading north that you're going to see that blank wall you entertained the idea of uh incorporating that corner with glass maybe an edge glass with the name of the restaurant just perhaps allowing more light more exposure to the restaurant from that corner are um are you suggesting hasell a a window or just a decorative incorp the signage into the window yeah perhaps uh we just just to allow that corner to me looks very blank it's a personal opinion I okay so I would say that we are did you see it here in the yeah I see it in the new rendering with the new molding stuff it's up in the top yeah there's a new rendering of that corner it's a it's a little more articulated than the one you're looking at that's all last last page still not a window but yeah I do but uh I I was just asking if you had considered that well we we have considered uh everything from a full maintaining the full doors to potentially a window to potentially a walkup um Pizza walk up Pizza Counter again we're trying to balance the exclusivity of the high-end restaurant Etc so we're happy to explore that um and work with staff administratively if that's possible I'm not suggesting a walkup window for pizza okay that's not no not at all I I I I think the design the addition of the restaurant to Lincoln Road is fantastic and a welcome addition I was just curious about that blank wall with a signage there as cars are driving up Jefferson it doesn't provide Michigan Michigan sorry uh it could provide a view into the restaurant as you're driving up it may be a distraction but it could provide a view into the restaurant more exposure just a thought and a question okay thank you okay Laura thank you so much for the presentation and um very excited this is such a critical you know intersection on Lincoln Road that's been abandoned for quite a while um you guys took such care with the design and the details did you guys look at the there was a copper Koopa that existed um in the in the original plans I know it's not existing anymore did you guys consider bringing that back and and if not why well we you know there's there are two um iterations in the history the 1925 era in which was more of a 90 degree boxy shape and then the 1934-35 M streamlined mad uh update at that time that brought the Copa um now there was a 2017 approval uh that Debbie alluded to that would had multiple stories and I brought brought forward that uh that design this design um we are staying within the envelope of the existing building um you know we're not bringing in additional floors and the income that might come from that so we're trying to come in do a full restoration of what's there um I I saw the Copa we do we do appreciate its beauty uh but we are staying within the envelope of the building not expanding it Brian very elegant design um just two uh minor questions on the the signage did we talk about the materiality of that that signage uh on the well I guess on the corner but then also on the main entrance well that has been um you know we may have moved it around a little bit but that that has stayed consistent since May that had uh a brass so it's the brass okay a finish that would match the sconces okay and then secondly on the at the door at the entrance it appears that there could you talk to us a little bit about what that is is like an inlaid stone or something or so this is um Brian just to understand your question exactly yeah no I'm just I'm looking at the at the entrance the tile that is on Michigan and then there appears to be maybe like a brass like plate almost that's on the the floor so I was just curious what I'm looking at okay please speak into the microphone yeah you can't translate it if you like helpful understood for everybody to understand what you're going to do there if you'd like to speak on if you'd like to come up and say something you just have to do it on the mic maybe there's a floating mic and while he's getting to the mic I can just point out Brian um good eye with noticing that if that's within the public right of way that would be subject to Public Works review and approval yeah I mean I like it I'm just I just wanted to get a little more detail on exactly what you guys intended to do there so yeah so it's we have that in our La storefront as well as our other one in Dubai um it's really just an homage to how old school country clubs always had like a a name plate for the logo or the crest of the businesses there that's just a nice moment for people we've seen a lot of Instagram moments where people are taking photos of their feet with a nice guy logo on the floor there just a nice way for an entrance to look as opposed to just sidewalk thank you Lindsay did you have a question for the applicant I did and I think we started to talk about this but then maybe we Shi it off of it um the sign on the corner where the old door front is where you worked with mdpl what's the materiality of that maybe I missed it so is it like is it like a what is it my clients and their design team are reporting that it's brass it's brass is the what it's constructed out of Y and so is it is it like brass like I mean it's kind of hard to tell from the rendering but is it each letter an individual brass piece that's mounted and then there's like a a box around it so it's you know what four seven maybe the is one so that's eight nine pieces okay all right um I'll ask it did you have another question R go go for it turn your mic on please everybody's talking about this corner being so plain all you have to do is put couple plant there and that would make make it look a lot better than just Stark okay all right I I had a I had a couple questions that are um um that just just for clarification that I wasn't able to understand from the plans if you could walk us maybe put the plan up of the of the project and walk us from the East um from the east corner of the building along the wall where all the W where the windows which I think is a fantastic um obviously a fantastic move can you just tell me what each one of the things that one of the things in plan that I'm looking at are um so starting with the Northeast nor starting with the sorry this the easternmost window can you tell me what that piece of furniture is in front that's in the plan there you go up to the upper right you can put your cursor on it the yeah just just along the window um I just and it's just for clarification what you're I'm is it's fine oh sorry just so I know are you looking at where your Cur where the cursor is right now oh got it got you of course so this being the Lincoln Road elevation window here we're looking at um just along the window here are imported Italian wood pasta making stations okay so they're kind of TBL yeah exactly cool uh a lot like what you'll see at ostaria forada that's also on the street okay similar to that just a bit yep all right and keep going down so then down there's nothing right in front of the window there's just the pizza correct there's nothing here because this is a station for a pizza cook to be able to actually throw wood and uh dough into the pizza oven okay which is two-sided it opens up facing Lincoln Road it as well opens up facing the production kitchen yeah yeah what those uh just along the window I I don't need the whole layout of the kitchen but just what's that is that another table exactly same idea but instead of pasta this will be for pastry and bread okay and then there's uh no windows there and no windows there then the next window is around the corner there's a window into the chef's table or M yeah okay yeah we're creative yeah yeah okay excellent all right so I think that does it for what's in front of the windows mostly they're mostly tables oh it's okay it's okay AES I I had and I had one more question not about the about the interior layout one was about is about the samples that you brought because when we look at the um the renderings of the of the windows they seem it seems like the the boards in the in the in the wood shift in width but they're very closely spaced together and and these seem like the boards shift in depth and they're very widely spaced apart am I how do I re reconcile these two you're right the boards will be closer together when we did this mockup the carpenter didn't do it exactly the way we oh got it Clos together all right so it look more like the rendering yeah yes and we'll be stained a little darker again we didn't have time to get the the no no I totally get it and and they will will the boards be all at the same same depth or will they be like uh they'll be slight as will they big some sticking out like 4 in and some sticking out like one inch is that okay and the widths will be this the same width or different varying lifts okay all right those were those were all my my questions so um now um thank you very much I think we have board disclosures if there are any I did meet oh on the on the on the I did meet in person at site and I noticed that they took an our recommendation the first time around of getting rid of those doors and running the the um knee plate all the way across to making it look so you you took that suggestion and I appreciate that okay I met with Mr Savage previously okay nothing I met with applicant okay I had a meeting on side with applicant okay and I did not so um now we are opening it to public hearing sure uh anyone on Zoom please raise your hand anyone in the audience please come forward good afternoon everyone hello Annabelle hello Sher haven't seen you in a while nice to see you um Annabelle yopi is executive director at the Lincoln Road bid um first I would like to make a note how the applicant has been already so open to meeting with the board and discussing the concept and how excited we are to have a partner like this on the road I think this is going to be a game Cher for Lincoln Road I think this will continue to elevate the the not just the restaurants but what's going to come after they open as well so as a board I can tell you they're extremely supportive of this project and we can't wait to have some pizza and pasta um on the road with these gentlemen so please please note that we're completely behind this project thank you thank you yes hi Daniel Sero with Miami Design preservation League we are thankful for the applicant's proposal to bring back life to a historic structure that we all know has been neglected by its current owner for far too long and this is happening all throughout Miami Beach as we've seen in several of the uh projects today um we do um overall like the proposal but we did Express concerns about removing the main Corner entry feature of the elmie Dixon 1938 that is still there and um you know we we you know I went honestly when I first saw the rendering on that corner I actually thought oh this must be 41st Street it just it screen 41st whereas you know they don't have design guidelines they don't have preservation you see these beautiful Arco buildings slowly being modified into sort of a brand new building and but this is not 41st this is Lincoln Road and it is elmarie Dixon it was disappointing to hear that this came from the staff who decided they thought the kitchen should be in the front and so you know the door is no longer important but we haven't seen anything like this on Lincoln Road where a building is so modified uh to meet the interests of a tenant I will point though that this board approved something similar a big modification of another Dixon That was supposed to be in Amazon and everyone was so excited and all the business folks were there and we all know that they pulled out and the building is still there in disrepair so we just want to make sure that you all are focused on that we're happy that the applicant is proposing some sort of a door figure and maybe that is enough but we um you know we did feel that this wasn't highlighted enough in the application and we want to make sure we make that out in the public that this is the main entry if we start removing doors and letting any tenant put their huge billboard I think we could start seeing that that could become a precedent so we're looking forward to your guidance we do think the the etching goes somewhat of the way but we' like to hear some more discussion especially in light of I want to show the elmary Dixon you know the ad from the historic resources report is very clear that there's a corner entry there so looking forward to your discussion thank you okay thank you Daniel um on Zoom I see Lyall Stern good afternoon Lyall do you swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth all truth nothing about the truth I do thank you have three minutes ly Stern 690 Lincoln Road I'll be I'll be brief Anabelle has already spoken on behalf of the board but I speak as a a resident a property owner on Lincoln Road a business owner on Lincoln Road and the chair of the Lincoln Road bid that we could not be more excited for the elevated level of attention that Lincoln Road is getting from quality internationally known restaurants and Brands and we're thankful to Adam and the hway group for uh being willing to consider Lincoln Road and bringing uh nice guy to Lincoln Road we we as a board obviously are fully supportive I'm fully supportive as as as a resident um and I'm grateful to uh to to Debbie and staff for uh for the great partnership uh in helping us uh help hwood uh to come to Lincoln Road so thank you all okay thank you very much and so now we'll close public comment as long as there's nobody else on Zoom assuming that's the case anybody else on Zoom no no I see no and we will um move to board member comment um would anybody like to start their expressing their thoughts about okay Brian um I applaud this project I think it's an inflection point for for Lincoln Road um it's well past time that we have this kind of an establishment um that is going to have such a prominent strategic uh positioning on Lincoln Road I think that the design is very elegant it's very well done you you guys were very thoughtful I really appreciate that you came to the board uh last spring I believe it was in May to get our feedback I think that the discussion that we had actually made this process a lot easier um for me at least and uh the you know the historical references that you you've taken out I think are really important um and your the solutions are are unique in terms of you know the Cypress and the windows um the brass I love that you put your own um you know Panache on onto it as well with the this inlaid ceramic as well um on the question of the Lincoln Road Frontage of the door my feeling is that look this is yes we are we are approving um you know this project uh subject to the to the applicant and to what the applicant does and the applicant obviously has a a particular brand which isn't just a restaurant for the public although the public can dine there but also there is an element I believe from you know looking at their other um venues and having attended them some of them uh you know with the element of privacy and so I I hear you know some of the members of the public who are concerned about that specific corner but I do think that they have preserved you know if there if that if that uh property changes hands at some point there's there's always a way that that can be Revisited and and I think actually in the plan here it is still honored and there's still an homage to it now my only comment on that would be I actually agree with Ray I think you're right I think there should be some sort of landscaping or Planters in front of there I I know that's not my purview but I'm sure you guys will figure that out and and work with public works and and whomever has jurisdiction over that exterior space that is directly in front at that Frontage I think it is important that The Pedestrian when they're walking down Lincoln Road they want you you want to give them the feeling that there's something Beyond there down Mich and we don't quite get that feeling you know if you're coming from the east or coming from the west but I'm sure you can you can do that um from a design point of view perhaps with lighting landscaping and the rest thank you very much I'm in support of this application since I'm looking at this side Lindsay would you like to make a comment sure uh I will Echo a lot of my fellow board members comments here um I'm very um heartened by the presentation and the effort and the work that has gone into making this space that's going to um draw not only patrons to the road but also um you know you know hopefully draw other you know synergistic type businesses um to the road um I think it's very important um you know I I'm I could go either way as far as the door goes I I can understand and appreciate um you know Daniel's comments um with regards to the the door that was um added end during the elmary Dixon renovation um I do like the corner doors however from a perspective of opening up the show Kitchen in the front um and you know I think there's something to be said and intriguing honestly about drawing the people off of the road if you will and down onto the side streets you know down to the entrance there down to the other um retail establishments that are further down the road uh or further down Michigan um so I like that I agree um you know something I know it's there and you know maybe that's part of the uh the uh the draw of it right is to have it a little bit secretive but you know letting people know that there is something down that way um that they might want to check out um you know I think is uh something that creates a a presence there on the road right um I think the show kitchen goes a long way towards that um but you know those are just kind of my thoughts I I am supportive of this application I think you guys um have put a lot of work and effort into this um and I I I agree um you said you made it made it a lot easier for him you know I don't know if it made it any easier for you guys to come before us for the preliminary discussion um but certainly I think um you know that's helpful um to kind of get a uh an understanding of where the board's coming from in advance um so I I'm I'm in support of the application in general and those are end of my comments great thank you and on this side um Ray would you like to go I'm in support of this application I think the uh the side uh along the Michigan Avenue side you know the way you treated it orally we talked about the windows and put the put the wood on the inside and whatnot putting it on the outside makes it look like shutters to somebody walking by uh you know which a lot of houses would have had and and and businesses as far as the show kitchen goes and the entrance have you thought maybe you might want to put the door there maybe you might want to invite somebody from the street in to work in the show kitchen at some point in time I mean this is a whole new concept you don't even necessarily know what you want to do with that so to me you know to have a way to get into the show kitchen and out of the show kitchen I mean there's so many different things that you could do and then all of a sudden you've livened that corner up even if you choose not to have it open you know or whatever but it's just a thought I I can go either way uh uh but I do understand what Daniel said and and you know I I think that that's a good possibility you can make everybody happy thank you um H well I want to applaud ownership for having the vision to bring this concept to Lincoln Road I think it's going to be a tremendous asset for us um and kudos to the design team I think you put a modern touch on a historic building and I think it's very appealing and I look forward to visiting your restaurant often thank you very much um I'll just Echo um what most of my fellow board members said um thank you so much for the investment um in Lincoln Road to see the streetcape come back to Lincoln Road and be vibrant is absolutely essential um and something so critical so to weave that in with all the historic elements that you brought back to life is is amazing um and I'm definitely supportive I would love to see the corner um door if if it's operable or not brought back in some creative way just because you know in in historic architecture that chamford corner was really one of the few design elements that they had um but if there was a way to maybe work with staff I definitely do not want to hold up your approvals um but you know that would definitely um make make me happy at least but thank you again and um very excited okay thank you uh Lindy go ahead so I mean since this is board discussion and comment you know as I'm thinking about it um I would have liked to have the door there however if it's not going to be utilized to me to right and and so that's that's kind of what I was thinking right I like the homage better than the actual door because otherwise then it looks like it was an afterthought like they just decided to close off this door and not use it rather than an intentional design decision um kind of to the point of like the knee walls where you suggested close off those doors and extend the knee wall because from a design perspective you know rather than we just enclosed a door and we're not using it anymore you know you extended the design and so that's I I like the improvements that were made and maybe there's more of homage that could be done I don't know um but as far as having a door but that's not going to be used as an entrance but if it goes to the if it goes to the kitchen on the mic you know like we talked about that's I mean I guess I can understand that I guess my point is is that if it's not going to be utilized what that does is it as someone's walking around they go to that door and then oh this isn't the door that I go into and I've got to go that's the struggle that I have with it right um you know if it were I I I don't even know I mean I'm okay with what has been suggested but if it were let's say a window you know that open rather than a door that's my point is I don't really want a door that's not going to be utilized as the entrance because it then just strikes me as an afterthought a door that we just closed off that we're not using okay and uh I'll just um U mentioned that I I I think this is a really an amazing um Amazing Project to have on Lincoln Road the corner of this building is a contested has been a contested space almost since it was built it was only seven years or so after the building or maybe a decade after it was built that this new Corner came in and I think you know when um when the nice guy is finished and the really super nice guy moves in maybe they want to open that corner door and do something completely different it's there the wall is there I think this is the best thing we can hope for with historic preservation is that there's a possibility in some cases not in every case but in some cases uh that there's a possibility to um to bring a project back maybe with a Koopa with a corner with glass it would be a different it would be a different scenario but in order to get this building moving and to keep um you know Lincoln Road moving forward in such a positive direction I I really can't uh I I can't commend you guys enough and I'm I'm really happy to see that what's happening around the you know the windows is going to are going to be tables and you know it's not it's not going to be shelving that's just got stuff stored on it and um I I I am wondering what's going to happen at the at the um the special table Chef's Table in terms of the windows I imagine there'll be a special shade or curtain there at certain times uh um when uh specials special guests are eating there but in any event I think it's a I really think we can I can definitely live with this uh project and I'm glad you articulated the kind of relationship between the mo the samples that you brought in and what you're what you're planning on doing and I would I I guess essentially encourage like us moving forward with staff recommendations but uh Lindsay go ahead yeah I mean I'm ready to make a motion if we're okay um so I would make a motion to approve with staff recommendations but also including um exhibit a and exhibit B that were provided separately I don't know if that's mentioned in the in the order or not okay so approve the order um per staff recommendations plus exibit A and B that were delivered to us today which are the the recess homage to the door on the Michigan side and then the more detailed homage to the door on the corner of Lincoln and Michigan I'll second on that okay let me call the role um Mr brein yes Mr Meyer yes Miss Weinstein Burman yes Mr Erick yes Miss level yes Mr Stewart yes congratulations thank you thank you so much to the board for the last hearing this hearing and all the time that you spent with us thank you so much Mr chair we the lunch was delivered um we have two more applications on the agenda we also have a discussion item so it's up to the board do you want to take a quick break do you want to eat through the remaining applications okay why don't we take five minutes and then we'll uh and we'll yeah and then we'll start right in okay so we'll take a five minute break Yeahs it e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 1 okay welcome back everyone um thank you for accommodating our our lunch break uh the next application on the agenda is HPB 24631 these are the Citywide digital information kiosks as the board may recall at the May meeting the board reviewed and approved the installation of digital kiosks at several locations within the city's local historic districts the applicant is requesting approval for the design of five additional kiosks four to be installed along Lincoln Road and one to be installed at the intersection of Indian Creek Drive in 39 Street the proposed kiosks are the same design as previously approved and are proposed to be finished in the neutral light gray color option the kiosks along Lincoln Road are proposed to be set at an angle to increase pedestrian visibility and these kiosks have been reviewed by the Lincoln Road bid and the James cornerfield operations staff recommends approval of the application and is available for any questions all right um thank you very much are there any questions uh from the board for staff related to this hearing none um then Mr Lin nice to see you yes good to see you good afternoon Mr chairman board member of Staff Michael Lin 200 St p g Boulevard here isan the applicant again uh with me is jabran Muhammad from the applicant and then bill Lane and my colleague Emily Balter um we very much appreciated you all pushing Us in this last year to come up with a superior design and I can't be grateful enough to Bill Lane to listening to you all and implementing that good design so we're here today to ask you all for approval for some more kiosk up and down Lincoln Road and then one upon Indian Creek you know you all have heard the different benefits of the kiosk but I'll tell you something very real anecdote that happened the last 24 hours I've been employ ing my aunt an and Lakeland to evacuate Lakeland with her son Greg and come down and stay with me because I I think I have ample room to accommodate my relatives when necessary and so I'm getting worried I'm tracking hurricane Milton and I I get up at 5:00 a.m. like I always do today I go to cnn.com and there's a very large picture of a Street in downtown Tampa and there happens to be a Ike Smart City kiosk right there with the hurricane messaging and hurricane evacuation routes and what to do and where Milton is and and I thought this is pretty amazing so hopefully Aunt Anne will not be so stubborn and she'll join me tonight we'll see but at least that their kiosk are up and alive and they're doing what they said with public messaging in a very prominent Street in downtown Tampa right now so that I'd like to turn over to Jabron he's going to walk you all through the different locations uh for these proposed kiosks thank you hello chairman and members of the board I'm Jabron Sher Muhammad with Ikes Smart City um and uh we'll try to move through this pretty quickly considering that yall have seen this presentation several times and at this point I think understand the chios functionality pretty well but as you might recall it's an interactive touchscreen wave finding device helps people navigate the city and present a series of options for how you can discover what you want to do and how to navigate to that location in addition to the public service messaging that uh Michael referenced here just a moment ago um we were selected in April 22 by the city executed a contract um in July 23 um sorry uh RFP was released in April 22 we were selected shortly thereafter and then executed a contract with the city um since then we've uh presented in front of the historic preservation board for feedback several times um and today we're here before you for the last five sites you approved eight sites at your last meeting we then went to the design review board to seek approval for two sites which got us to 10 locations and the contract is for an additional five locations 15 in total and so here we're presenting to you um the last five locations um of these five four are on Lincoln Road and then the fifth location incorporates some feedback we received from this board regarding sighting and is on um the SE Port location at Indian Creek in 39th uh we'll get into further details about those sites in just a moment um but first I want to uh pass the microphone over to Mr Lane to discuss um the design intent behind the kiosks hi hi good afternoon everyone uh thank you for um hearing us out on this uh we came back uh with the proposed Kiosk for Lincoln Road using of course the more neutral uh silver tone and um and also the the fact that these were slightly rotated I think make them uh more sculptural we wanted to stay with them then the kind of neutrality of the the lapidis kios and some of the future work that the James comr group is going to be uh adding to the road so we just imagined it to be uh something that was more appropriate I I think some of the other Ike uh kiosks that you know of are usually black they're monolithic we think that this one uh particularly the fact that it's Unique will be uh something special for Miami Beach um and uh of course the form that you've already seen we feel is responsive to the beach uh in terms of creativity in terms of again uniqueness uh something that uh is uh reflective of Miami Beach design generally so thank you very much um and then once again this is the the design that Mr Lane developed for us and this is a rendering of the the design that the color that we're seeking um for these locations um we work closely with James Corner field operations in order to make sure that the the uh implementation of the program fits nicely with what's happening on Lincoln Road this was I think we we circulated a letter of support from James Corner um field operation to to everybody on the board and if you don't have that letter we're happy to share it um but just to give you context on that letter it's more than just reaching out to them asking them for support but we've had several meetings with uh jcfo over the last call it 60 days on and off um in order to make sure that we're collaborating closely and incorporating all their feedback into our sighting um so with that this is the the five locations we're here seeking approval for um I'm going to try to move through these pretty quickly but of course happy to go back to any of these slides for questions um in evaluating all of these sites we incorporated an assessment of um uh pedestrian counts so you'll see here that we also will have a pedestrian count each one of these locations has tens of thousands of pedestrian going by them on a regular basis and we've put the count at each site um so the first site is at Lincoln Road in Pennsylvania Avenue um Mr Lane referenced that the sites on Lincoln Road have a unique orientation um the Lincoln Road business improvement district actually recommended to us that in order to create some visual interest and to maximize pedestrian view shed and accessibility they suggested instead of doing the traditional perpendicular orientation we Orient them at a 45 degree angle so that um it kind of creates a new visual interest without changing the color scream which they wanted they like this color and I don't want to speak for them they'll speak after I'm done um but that suggest they suggested an orientation that would help maximize pedestrian interactivity um and then also create some visual interest uh up and down that prominade um so you can see that kind of 45 degree orientation here only the ones on Lincoln Road will have this unique orientation um here's another view of the same kiosk and then here's a plan view of it as well um this kiosk has 65,000 uh pedestrians uh going by a month um and uh will be located on on Lincoln Road in Pennsylvania uh the next site is at Meridian and Lincoln Road here's a a plan view of where we'll go um another an elevation of it and then finally uh a detail plan view as well um this site has over 100,000 uh pedestrian visits a month um and we vetted all of these sites for accessibility to power wheelchair accessibility clear path of travel Etc um the next location is at Lincoln and Jefferson um here's an elevation and please stop me if I'm moving too quickly or interrupt with questions um and then here's a detail plan view nearest building is Victoria Secret um this site has over 30,000 pedestrians a month um the next location is at uh uh lenux and Lincoln um here's an elevation and then uh detail plan view this site has over 58,000 pedestrians a month um and then finally the last site we were attempting to place this near the the new C port and then also with some proximity to 41st Street as well um so that people were encouraged to go down 41st Street um there seems to be some confusion around you mentioned Seaport yes SE like a pedestrian walk pedest excuse me Boardwalk pedestrian Boardwalk I'm sorry I thought seport was a term of art that was being used in the city um I'll use pedestrian Boardwalk excuse me okay um so the attention here is to be in close proximity to The Pedestrian Boardwalk to encourage people to go down 41st Street and also to use that pedestrian Boardwalk as well encourage activity there um here's an elevation and then here's the plan and I'm going to go through go into another detailed plan of it there we go okay um that site currently has approximately 24,000 visitors a month okay um to briefly touch on content plan I understand I have less than a minute left uh we worked closely with mdpl to create like an art deco walking tour um Daniel had to leave but will um support virtually we have mdpl support um May I yes you need another minute two minutes yeah a minute or two should be fine two minutes I I'll be brief okay um and so just want to show you that through the iterative process over the course of this year we met with you and the design review board you know we've learned how important it is to be collaborating with these organizations in the city we work very closely with mdpl to create this Art Deco walking tour so that people can learn about this tour take it with them and then explore kind of the art deco experience and the background of the city the historical context of the design importance of the city as they kind of walk down the city um and then we're also working with the wolfsonian to create poster applications to help people discover everything they have to offer here is the Jewish Museum of Florida at FIU um and we've worked with various Community organizations just to give you a sense of everybody we've talked to and are actively collaborating with to make sure the content kind of reflects the spirit of the Miami Beach Community um with that I'm happy to address questions thank you great thank you very much um so now uh we are at the moment of board questions for the applicant does anybody have anything they'd like to say Ry um just on Lincoln Road you know there's a master plan for Lincoln Road and have you looked at that and made sure that what you're doing doesn't have to interfere with what they're doing yes okay anybody else anybody on this end all right um so now we have board disclosures no no okay moving right along we get to public um to public hearing and there's Annabelle good afternoon again Annabelle yies Linker Road Miss approve mement executive director as the applicant stated we have worked very closely with them probably over a year now um not just identifying locations but how it was going to be installed we work with James Corner as well and also Public Works to understand where we proposing these location if it impacts anything underneath as well so I I really wanted to let you know that we have been intimately involved with them and picking these location currently you have about eight staff attic directories on Lincoln Road they're the old Clear Channel they're very large bulky and many times they're literally in the right away like you literally you're in the middle you have to walk around them so it was really important for us to identify these new locations that fits within the pedestrian right away um and we're very pleased and we thank you very much for working with the applicant to make this design extra special for Lincoln Road um so I'm here today to tell you we're 100% supportive we can't wait to to get these going um we are working with the city on on the Clear Channel on the removal of their because they're on month to month right now um the goal would be is that we would remove the old ones and install the four new digital I do not want I don't believe we should have a hybrid approach on Lincoln Road I think it's either all static or All Digital so for right now as we move forward when we have these produced and we're going ready to install we are going to remove the older version verions of the directory the reality is once you print it's outdated you know so the digital help us keep it very current to what's there on Lincoln Road obviously have promotions and and identify the events that we're going to have on Lincoln Road so we're very excited to have these on Linka Road thank you very much thank you um I see Daniel Caldo on Zoom hi Daniel uh thank you very much and just in time before my one o' meeting that I had to run to but we just wanted to share that we had met with the applicant in the prior iterations along Ocean Drive and we've been part of the process to help improve the design we're thankful for their support and for uh placing an app for the walking tour and uh for their overall involvement in uh taking input from the stakehold ERS one thing I did see today regarding hurricanes is a lot of these are being used for Hurricane information and I just want to make sure that there's some backup power as well since uh this is an increasingly uh climate impacted city thank you very much okay thank you Daniel I'm Miss sure I see no other members wishing to comment okay then um we now uh do we do this closures we did nobody had any um so now we just board member comment would anybody like to um open the comment just just out of curiosity we've already approved some locations when when is the first one actually going to be installed so because the the design is custom for the the beach um we've been waiting for this meeting to hit go on fabrication so ideally we'd like to be installed with several of these by June of next year um but it's a matter of whether our fabricator is able to deliver at the pace we'd like to see um after this meeting thank you any any board member comment on the application no I I'll just jump in to say that I think that uh you know the the Confluence of community engagement board engagement Civic engagement um with these kiosks has been um exemplary and uh that it it it's not that I am particularly enamored of these kiosks but personally uh I drive by them in my office in Winwood um but I do think that this process has been exemplary and I would uh I would support a motion if anybody wanted to uh as per faculty as per faculty as per staff recommendations what that I know sorry and if nobody wants to do a motion we can continue our discuss make a motion to approve as the staff's conditions there okay do we have a second I'll second okay let me call the RO Miss Weinstein bman yes Miss level yes Mr erck yes Mr Brin yes Mr Meyer yes and uh Mr chair yes thank you great thank you all very much for your time thank you very much be safe good luck right you sent me some I have okay our next application um is HPV 24633 this is Ocean Terrace Park um Ocean Terrace between 73rd Street and 75th Street including portions of 73rd 74th and 75th streets um again this is a the applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the installation of an artistic sculpture within the park so if if some of you have been up there you'll note that the park is well under construction um it's a very exciting project um and I know you know Jake and I have have spoken with a lot of business owners in the neighborhood who are also enthusiastically supportive of this park coming to completion um and we think it will be an exceptional asset for for our residents and our visitors um so we've outlined a bit of History the applicant actually was about a year ago um did go through um as part of their agreement with the city they did go through a process where they went to the art and public places committee um regarding this art piece which is part of their requirement and as with the contract that they have with the city for constructing the park um so the art and public places committee did review I think on on two occasions and uh did not have any objection to the piece of art work shown which is um by renowned artist prun Nori um it is to be located within the previously approved Central water feature of the park it will be a Cellular Concrete with applied uh coding to give the appearance of stone um staff is is supportive of the proposed artwork we think the location is appropriate um and we just are we are recommending approval subject to um certain maintenance plan uh being reviewed and approved by the city the city um there has some experience with art and public places maintenance because we have a a pretty exceptional vast collection however this facility will be ma maintained by the city's parks department and so we are just um including in our recommendation that prior to the issuance of a building permit for this that the parks department review um and approve of the maintenance schedule and um program all right thank you Debbie is are there any questions for Debbie about staff's report on this no then uh seeing none please take it away well good afternoon Christopher Mado from acran Lop 98 Southeast 7 Street sweet 1100 in Miami Florida I'm here on behalf of OT streetscape LLC that's an affiliate of Ocean Terrace Holdings Ocean Terrace Holdings is a developer of the Ocean Terrace project and also of this park we are the co- applicant with the city on this one because the artwork will be installed within City owned property so the city is supportive in that respect I'm joined today by jarck Green from Ocean Terrace Holdings He's on by zoom and by Clarence Johnson who's here in person with us I'd like to give you some background I think Debbie touched on the highlights of the project I won't go into depth on the development agreement what has happened since then I'll just say that we're very happy to provide comment on this application which is for the installation of a sculpture designed by prun norri pror is originally from France and she designed sculptures all over the world primarily working with clay and also um with Mexican themes in certain occasions as you'll see when I go through the presentation her body of work focuses on the intersection of uh the body and healing and also other themes including the interdependence of living things here we have for you on the screen if you could share that slide this is an artwork by pror in Exon provance uh in the south of France just north of Marseilles it is called M Earth it is supposed to symbolize the womb of Mother Earth but it's also sort of an Ode to how Earth matters it's an Ode to sustainability and to how humans interact with their environment here we have additional artworks that serve as background inspiration for our sculpture these are based in Brussels and in New York City and you'll see the themes of human faces and working with clay and similar materials and here on slide four we have additional Works located in France at the top and in Mexico on the bottom U one of the themes that she has used in her works is the idea of a temascal which is a Mexican sweat lodge to symbolize sort of repentance and cleansing and she works also with those materials in most of her work so the inspiration for this particular piece of art is Nelly Locust she was a very important woman in our history in the city of Miami and the region as a whole she worked with the United States Coast Guard's a women's Reserve commonly known as spars spars comes from the Coast Guard motto Seer Paratus always ready this was during World War II she served to gather intelligence and to uh inform the intelligence sector of the Coast Guard as to persons who were looking to enter into our ports and this was was a very important role for women at the time in uh the home front during the war because it provided opportunities to gain skills and enter the workforce therea and so Nelly's uh countenance is the inspiration for the sculpture as to the location of the sculpture it's located will be located in the heart of the park within the central water feature and you see on this uh right hand side of these slides how there is a bench across from the sculpture on the walk way that will allow someone to see what it means when we say reflection because the sculpture itself as you saw previously is really half of the face which lies above the water the reflection completes the image and that hence its name so this is a view uh looking just off of that bench you can see someone sitting on the bench and you see the sculpture how it's presented the captions on this screen might be blocking some of the view but here I think you can see it well the reflection the water body completes the image and above uh the side of her face you see a plant feature which over time will grow and will incorporate itself into the sculpture itself it's supposed to symbolize somewhat of her hair and so it's a sort of an homage to how the sculpture Works into the environment and how they work together this is a different view um mostly of the same area and you can get a better perspective of how it'll look like sitting on that bench here's an image of the location it's shielded from view in part by the foliage but once you turn the corner you're pleasantly surprised by this piece of Arc art you wouldn't see it otherwise and when you come to it you'll then see the water body the sculpture itself and Its Reflection so um unless there are any questions uh we're very happy to receive a favor recommendation from staff we've been to the art and public places committee they've recommended favorably we will be going to the city commission for approval subject to development agreement a simple consent approval of how we would pay for this there's a 2% payment in the development agreement that we are exceeding or our client is paying more than the requirement to make sure this project is an integrated whole and is a success when it comes to maintenance it'll be maintained over the course of years there spe specifications by the artists in these uh documents and design documents and it's also something the city um is oblig to maintain as part of the development agreement that's the the agreement they would maintain it we would build it that's how we're working together on this joint project okay thank you very much um board members are there any questions for the applicant right in in terms of the of the maintenance um because I'm on the board of a of an art museum here and you know we have some there are always challenges I would say with the outdoor sculptures and whatnot have you guys gotten assurances in terms of you know how this sculpture will be you know affected by the elements here in Miami um you know and that has the artist have you had conversations about that do you have specific um specs on what kinds of materials paint you know any kind of thing that that has to um you know a maintenance schedule that has that has to be addressed because there there are a lot of issues in the city with you know with our I'm not trying to you know this is a beautiful piece of art I really love it I love the the artist's work but I just want to make sure that if we get something here in five years we're not going to wake up and it's going to be peeling right right well there there will be a formal maintenance schedule in the commission agreement that's part of this project what we know from the artist is that the material is hydrophobic it repels water and it was done intentionally it's an autoclaved irated concrete it's known in Europe as Cellular Concrete so it's 80% air and then the covering that the rest of the material is formed based on Sand cement and lime and it's a material that is supposed to be waterresistant and it's also simp easy to maintain according to the artist we have a preliminary schedule of Maintenance which will include and I can go over that with you once a year be clean with brushes every five years clean with water jets and there'll be routine Landscape Maintenance of the park to monitor the plantings around the sculpture should a block coating be damaged coating material is available locally for repairs and should the block need to be replaced the artist can 3D print it with a replacement block so that's been considered okay I guess just the the area that I'm the most interested in is where you know because obviously with the artists it's you know as you know the the piece of art itself is the proprietary you know um asset I guess you could say and so they often spend specify what you use to clean what types of brushes what types of uh you know additional sure um main it so I just I just want to make sure that the that the flexibility is indeed with the city or that there has been some accommodation so that the city is able to in a cost effective manner maintain this piece of art yes and as an example there are some artists that will say that a a certain kind of blue you know even if it's the same color blue is not the paint that has to be used and it's actually a paint that they create and that they maintain and then you have to go back to them after every every you know after every year so I I just want to get a little more specificity there it's the concrete um you know and the materiality sounds encouraging but again just making sure that the the onus that the responsibility lies with the city not with an artist who who perhaps even though she is incredibly you know an incredibly talented person does not quite understand the particulars of of South Florida environment no that the point is well taken I remember negotiating development agement with the city for the project itself in the park the city Administration made a point about not having patri portuguesa because that had been a concern on Lincoln Road the Portuguese Stone and so uh we avoided any of that and so we've been working with the city Administration on all those elements and touch points and it will be addressed to the city satisfaction in the commission agreement to which the city is a party as Nick can tell you and if there are any concerns from the city's end on that those aspects they can be fleshed out in detail but for now we can share this slide that I have in front of me which provides information what that was shared to the AIP committee on maintenance standards that are applicable as a generic uh summary of what will be done but the specifics and the particulars can be addressed in that agreement with the city and that's correct we we are negotiating a a standalone uh commission and maintenance agreement with the with the developer for this work Lindy so on page 23 of on page 23 of the document that you were just showing um that was page 28 um it talks about excuse me page 24 um talks about the blocks appearing in the back ahead model of architecture destroyed by time and this part of the sculpture can be vegetated can you talk a little bit about that help me understand that a little bit more sure so the the idea is that the tree will grow out of its planting and it will cover the back of the sculpture and some of the side of the sculpture to give an image of the the Nelly's hair per say right and so that'll be over time it'll grow it'll be pruned it'll be trimmed but it will fill out the rest of the sculpture side and back and the stones as you can see they rendered in a cellulite concrete blocks which are supposed to give an idea of uh disintegration over time so it's supposed to work in in context with and in concert with the foliage that comes into the tree into the sculpture that's the idea and I I think if you go back to some of the renderings from the prior artworks of pror you'll see that some of them are rustic they're intentionally rustic that's one of her Concepts in particular in the more Mesoamerican themes Lindsay is that take care of you that's it okay anybody else I I had a I had a question um um what was most interesting to me was the story behind this piece and I was looking in the plans and I was looking in the order and couldn't find where we where where we've established that somebody visiting this will understand that it's about you know um it's about what the the woman's name who is in spars so uh it was about Neil Nelly Locust and um and what her role was and what the role of women were and that period so where will that be located well I'm not sure if it's if planned at the moment but it seems appropriate for some sort of plaque commemorating of it yeah that would help people to understand what they're seeing and why and why she because it looks in some in it it looked a little more generic than than the image of Nelly who was you know very specific and vibrant looking person did did you want to say something no okay um so if we don't have any more uh questions um then I think we go on to uh board disclosures no board disclosures all right then we open it to public uh hearing um anyone on Zoom please raise your hand U Mr chair I see no members of the public wishing to comment okay um well then uh no then if there's no no further comment then would anybody like to either discuss this further make a motion um I will say when I first looked at this I thought it should be at the Holocaust Memorial just because with the stone and the way it looked anyway um uh I I I see no reason not to accept this the way it is and I'll make the mo motion to improve it uh is there any more discussion or a second can we include a condition for signage explaining that that we just discussed add I me Ray do you accept that amendment to include a plaque or signage or some type of signage I I hate using the word plaque because I mean you know a lot of the plaques that are being littered around the city by this by other actors in the government I think should not be copied and modeled so so with the staff you know obviously with the staff's design expertise they will come up with something not one of those like plaques that are in park has um has beautiful plaques I think there leet arante is here um there're stainless steel inground beautiful elegant simple um so we could certainly work with the developer to to have something introduced blette would you like to to address the board good afternoon lisante director of Tourism and culture for City of Miami Beach thank you uh Debbie um I just want to confirm that the language it's going to be is regarding the growth right to explain what the tree element is in the sculpture and I'd like to also add that if we have anything there that we include something about the inspiration as in the acrian letter in terms of the who the sculpture is based on in her life the story about the war I thought that could be done with the all that yeah it's also to to manage uh residents or visitors expectations and not you know it's meant to be overgrown not that the city is up keeping the maintenance so I think that's important to have that language uh on the plaque if that's something that the the board would entertain well that's a good idea yeah so a yeah almost to set the expectations from the beginning when the the tree the mangroves haven't grown in or whatnot so people are aware that the eventual Evolution will be quite more absolutely I think that's a really good point so we can include a condition that a some type of signage with descriptive um language regarding the intent behind the sculpture um in the story of the development of the sculpture yeah including the landscape all right thank you LTE so we have a we have a motion with an accepted friendly Amendment and a second do we second it okay let me call the role Miss level yes Miss Weinstein Burman yes Mr Meyer yes Mr Erick yes Mr brein yes Mr Stewart yep thank you very much thank you okay board members that finalizes our regular agenda for applications um we do have one discussion item uh regarding the structure and we had passed out a photograph of the structure located at 14 um 36 Pennsylvania Avenue this is a contributing building designed by elmurray Dixon um it was originally constructed as a single family home it is currently part of the Fisher fineberg collection of properties uh owned by the Miami date County School Board um so this structure is kind of the theme of today's meeting has been vacant for quite some time um you know over the past I would say 15 years staff has had some conversations with the school board about potentially an Adaptive reuse there have been other types of very initial discussions about a public private partnership for this site um um but fast forward to uh October 1st um we were notified we G were given formal notice by the miam County Public Schools of capital Improvement projects that their intent is to fully demolish the building um they believe the demolition is schedu it will be scheduled to start on October 14th so that's very quickly I don't know if um it will start on that particular date so I don't want to um misrepresent but according to their notice that is when they intend to to demolish the building um they have provided staff with some structural some very basic structural analysis they do believe the the building is in extreme state of disrepair um and cannot structurally be saved they have um their own permitting according to the state law the liade County School Board is exempt from local permitting agencies so they have their own building official and their own building permit process so they're not required to come to the city to obtain such of a any building permit or demolition permit um so I want to thank them for for notifying us that they have issued themselves a a demolition permit um section 2.13.1 D2 of the city code does require that the historic preservation board be given notice um which is why I plac this on the agenda I'm sorry it was kind of a last minute um introduction to the agenda but I did want to notify all of you that this the demolition of the structure does appear to be imminent uh during our conversations and Nick was was involved in these meetings as well with the County School Board we did advise them that while they may be exempt from um our building permit processes uh we do it is our position that they are not exempt from our historic preservation regulations and that would include the after Thea certificate of appropriateness requirements for demolition that would also includ include that any new construction come before this board um for their review and approval did you get any response to that um statement of belief verbally we we did um they didn't seem to object to that verbally I I think the the the school board understood our position um our position is consistent with with Florida law that that Schoolboard property is subject to local comprehensive plans and Land Development regulations and and our historic preservation uh uh ordinance is in the ldrs our comp plan also provides for historic preservation um we the position we're taking is is consistent with uh with the position we've taken in the past it's consistent with the position that the City of Coral gabl is taken with regard to Historic property um so uh but that said we've not received a a uh a written response um uh on you know on as to the ldrs in comp go ahead go ahead so I'm just trying to understand they can issue themselves a permit for demolition but still have to come to us for an after the fact that's our our position is that but that they seems kind of disjointed well our our understanding remember there's an exception in our historic preservation ordinance um to the requirement of Prior HPB review of of any demolition there's an exception when demolition is ordered on an emergency basis that doesn't absolve the school board from from the requirement to file an after theact application or from seeking approval for for whatever you know is going to take the building's place um so our understanding based on our discussions with them is that the building is under is is in a is in a state as Debbie put it of of extreme disrepair um so we have requested confirmation that this is in fact on an emergency basis well that's what I was going to ask I mean because if it's an unsafe structures you know in a outside of the school district context if it's an unsafe structure and there's an emergency order for demolition that's one thing and so it's at least being portrayed to us as from the school board's perspective it is quote unquote an emergency and we're waiting for confirmation on that is that what I understand yes it would be the equivalent of an unsafe structures order but from the school board's own building department okay that's right um this looks like it was a single family home and I'd like to know how to the school board get ownership of this property I mean that's a good question I don't know this this building is part of a larger parcel that has school facilties on it um I don't know how they acquired it or when they acquired it I bet you if you look it's got a much if if you look at the original drawing when this was built it has a regular lot size and it was maybe attached to something else or whatever because there's you know there's other homes along that area I've seen this building you know many times and riding my bike by and I always wondered how could this just be sitting here nothing happening to it has anyone from the city of Miami Beach building department review the structural Integrity of this building to this point not that I'm aware of and I I I think we would need school board's permission to be to to be able to do that yeah so are there bringing this discussion up to us is there any is there anything you need from us to help um either defensively to kind of make sure we know as much about this building before it it is potentially destroyed if that's if that's really what happens so for example surveying it doing the drawings kind of looking at the some of the history of it so we have a record of it can we help with with that or is there on the more um you know maybe Progressive side of things trying to find a way uh to stall this so that maybe there's a maybe there's a third alternative that would be some kind of sharing of the space for uh other usage or I I don't know I'm just kind of grabbing a straws here yeah I mean I think those you know in terms of this board's Authority you you are recommending body and I think it would be perfectly appropriate for the city to transmit any recommendations that this board may have to the school board um whether or not those recommendations are enforcable is is something you know we would probably have to to consider more um but it's it's something the board has done in the past with private property um is is when a demolition order has been issued you you then the code actually requires you to be notified and then to make recommendations to the property owner as to any any mitigating work that could be done including perhaps documentation um including urging them to you know get a second opinion in terms of the structure Etc yeah how do we know this building is ready to fall down other than them telling us that it doesn't look it to me I don't see big cracks on the side of the building or anything it seems to me like you know if somebody wanted to they could go in and restore that building that's my opinion you know and and they're telling us oh no it's ready to fall down and we have to tear it down tear it down by the 14th of October I find that unacceptable I I can just give you some some anecdotal firsthand information as well I'm not a structural engineer I do not have any ability to analyze whether a building is going to collapse or not but from my experience and my I actually went into that building probably 12 years ago and there were some from my observations for my lay person observations some serious concerns there's actually a tree that's growing growing into the building and it has kind of lifted the building in certain places and I did witness significant cracks whether those are structural cracks I don't know um but from my personal observations I I think the building has long had some serious structural deficiencies um certainly that's what it appears to be they have um been been trying to keep the building secure I know that there have been issues with people who live in the neighborhood um they have received a lot of correspondence from residents who live in the neighborhood complaining about people breaking in to the building um unsafe unclean conditions throughout the property um and so I am aware that they've been trying to keep the building boarded up and fenced um but that that's kind of an ongoing problem with the with certain people who live in in close proximity I don't have a lot more information do you know how long they've owned that building at least 15 years I mean since since I've been here so probably more than that well what go ahead I don't know what well you make I mean your power lies with only making recommendations at this point um and we are certainly happy to transmit any recommendations to the school board so we can make a list of recommendations one we'd like to see a second opinion I'm just throwing them out there not as their final ones but you know and we'd like to see you know thorough document Ser survey like a Habs level documentation of the existing building so that uh with details and um because it seems like it has some some very nice details in terms of how the the windows and doors are inset um there's some Corner coin kind of details um and it looks like there might be a fireplace maybe not um but anyway but and then um and then I guess other things that we could ask for so I don't know you mentioned some Habs level detail what did you I was thinking of the level of details that we were asking of one of the one of the applicants today to provide of the buing that instead of moving they were going to tear down um so that we can really understand the how the Pieces come together yeah I mean I was thinking along the lines of I know data Heritage Trust had a presentation a while back about like 3D documentation um done you know of structures that can't be preserved I don't know enough I mean I think kind of part of what is missing is I don't know other than like the design elements what's the history behind this structure you know like what was it how did it get Incorporated you know those pieces are kind of missing um so i' would like to at least document that history um whatever that is to the extent that it exists or is important um and then you know the after the fact conditions remind me again I know we have one that we just did a not too long ago um the uh ior Rose estate that was is or was and after the fact came have have they come back to us for the after the effect Road no not on the on in Palm View on uh de Waterway um but the condition the after the fact in order to get an aftera demolition permit what are the conditions associated with that what are the requirements I guess normally so yeah are after the fact um Provisions for demolition um have two presumptions the first presumption is that if um if the project or if the demolished building satisfies the um the Secretary of interior standards for reconstruction then the the presumption is this board would require the historic building to be reconstructed it that may be rebutted if if the applicant does not believe that it satisfies those criteria those criteria are things like are is there available historical documentation to allow for an accurate reconstruction um is the building one of the last of its kind um is it important to reconstruct the building for the education of um of the public so so there there are certain criteria that you have to meet for rec for reconstruction to be a recommended treatment for historic properties that so that would be the first um step for the applicant the second um presumption would be okay if they've rebutted that and the board is not convinced that this is a good candidate for reconstruction the second presumption is that any new building shall not exceed the existing height and square footage of the previously existing building so that if we get to the second presumption you could approve a new building but that new building could be no larger than the previously existing building the applicant also has the ability to rebut that um there are maybe four criteria that allow um some flexibility for the applicant to rebut that to the board if the board agrees that the size of the building should not be limited then the board can approve up to the maximum allowable within the zoning District can can the board direct the applicant in this particular case to provide us with some sort of report that provides us with some of the research that you mentioned some of the historical under opinions that we are not aware of given that they have their own you know quasi judicial you know body or whatever that thatc because we're not within kind of the normal order of business here we have to receive some sort of report from them so that we can take a look at um you know what those that basic context is that we would normally have if it had gone through like regular order let's say does that make sense that makes sense and we can certainly request that for information to be to be delivered to the board yeah go ahead so I don't know if this is speaking out of turn but I'd kind of like to go on record that I'm I'm kind of disappointed honestly um that the school board one would allow this to get to this level and and not make any sort of I mean you know Fisher fineberg I was just there um three weeks ago um you know it's one of our most underserved you know it serves one of our most underserved populations um and you know they're making Grand efforts on restoring the courtyard and making it you know um a place where the children can come and learn and be interactive and to allow this structure that belongs to the the school board you know to just kind of deteriorate I'm a little bit disappointed that and and I I haven't I hadn't given it a whole lot of thought because there's also a structure right behind it that was maybe JCS I can't remember um je Community Services possibly right behind it um west of it Nick I don't know everyone's looking at you there was there was discussion about that a few years ago I don't remember where that went and I mean this is you know you know obviously I think we all know but like the school backs up to Espanola Way right so I mean it's all right there in this very this this District that we've seen so much revitalization and Restoration in um it's just disappointing to see this and you know as I think about it I don't know that I feel like the structure has been vacant and unused probably the entire time I've lived here um and you know I thought maybe that was just a decision of the school board not to utilize it but to allow it to then just fall into disrepair I I just I want to be clear I understand that state law they have their own requirements but for them to just let it sit there and deteriorate such to the point that it needs to be Dem demolished and then let us know you know 13 days in advance um is disappointing I just the communication could have been better that's kind of my point it it's my opinion that over the last 15 years they've had no intention of spending the money to renovate it and now that it's to the point where it needs to be torn down they'll tear it down and my guess is they'll build nothing on that lot that lot will just become um grassed area for for the school maybe they'll put a a you know a volleyball court or something there I my opinion is they're not planning to build anything yeah and that that's what they they have advised us that they have no imminent plans for that site and I will bet you anything somebody left it to them somebody died and left it to the school district and then they're like oh what are we going to do with this that's just my opinion well I I think a little bit of property search which isn't easy on the county site I think it needs a little bit more local I think we could probably find stuff here like possibly a building card for it I think you know it's it's very close to the August Geer auditor um gymnasium it it's part of um it's part of a cluster of of construction around that time just at the beginning of World War II I think it would be really important I mean to to understand more about it and to photo document it and to do all that stuff um if we can I apologize it's okay I'm being distracted I'm sure I know I just got a message sitting next to Lindsay has that I got a message there was an LTC this morning regarding the demo and I thought we had a copy so I wanted to that is correct and that actually went out before we I mean after our printed everything so we did not have that um that doesn't really have a lot more information than what I've given you um I bet we could find we could find more I mean not that this is going to solve the problem of this building imminently being torn down but I think while it's up we need to take all advantage that we can of understanding it's uh what it is and maybe they maybe the most they can do is give permission to um students yes some FIU students to go in and uh and do some surveying but um no but anybody to go in I would I would argue that a professional firm would be probably you know the the most would would well I I don't know but I think um I think we could propose it maybe the commission would uh allow it it's not going to be a huge expense to survey but it's part of our heritage that um you know that particularly concerns this board and um I think the city and it's in it's in the it's in a core area of of building a historic building for the city it's not just like a lone shark out there I would agree with you but it's going to be torn down in less than a week I know I don't see how we're going to get anything done before they it's a tough week too so I that's what that would be my recommendation you know maybe maybe that's a I mean they've given us this date but uh as we all know in construction dates change and project timelines shift so I mean perhaps that's some discussion that could be had immediately about you know C we understand that you know they have the right you know to to do this but could they hold off pending some you know a thing or you know one or two of these things I mean if it's if as I recall it's been sitting vacant fced off not used for you know the nine or almost 10 years I've lived here um one week two weeks you know what's that going to hurt and is there is there flexibility would they be flexible to that that that would be my I don't know what their response is going to be but you can absolutely make a recommendation to the school board that the demolition be delayed in order to give um additional time for documentation to be made for the detailed documentation to be performed on the building didn't you say we have no say over what they do with their property no no no the the the school board is subject to our comp plan and Land Development regulations and that includes our historic preservation ordinance what they are exempt from is our review um of of uh of of building permit so you know our building official can't uh require a permit so in other words they could tear that down and because they don't have to get a building permit from us they could build whatever they want there is that what you're saying no they're still Bound by Our Land Development regulations okay so and maybe correct me if I'm wrong the way that I'm looking at this is it's as if unsafe structures has ordered them to demolish the building we don't have a way to stop that right they are their own if you will unsafe structures board right and so they' said it needs to be demolished it's an imminent threat or emergency question right um and therefore we're going to demolish it but still in order to um we have to then they have to come to us for the after the certificate of demolition as anybody would and then those conditions that Debbie was just talking about about whether or not there's a there's a presumption that it has to be rebuilt but it can be rebutted so on and so forth that's that would be the The Next Step um if they decide to do anything yes when they have to come to us for an well no as a condition of the after the fact there is a rebuttable presumption that the building has to be reconstructed period That's Right H yes okay now they could rebut that presumption and Debbie went through that but there is a rebuttal presumption that it has to be reconstructed okay yeah and maybe part of the um language that can be used uh would emphasize that um you know that we consider uh the buildings the historic buildings in historic districts to be you know not only drivers um economic drivers but also educational drivers and environmental drivers that not tearing something down and putting in a landfill and showing the Next Generation that uh that we're reusing and Recycling and re and adapting rather than throwing away is is a is a means towards sustainability thank you so much for saying that more eloquently than I ever could have no but I was thinking the same thing that this is an educational opportunity for I mean for these kids and and I think further to this grer than the discussion that we're having right now which is specific to this building um would be this is news to me you know I didn't know that miam County Public Schools could you know issue a permit for demolition based on their own criteria I'm sure they have right but you know that they could do that outside of this and that makes me think of the beautiful structure that is the school right and you know I was there the other day literally and I've been in and around the grounds but it was the first time where I was inside with the kids with the administration and it is such a beautiful place and such a beautiful structure and it's so unique um and it hasn't lost that uniqueness it's not just you know the brand new building that's built in the suburbs that's like state-of-the-art but they've T they've taken this existing historic structure and made it um a great place for these kids to learn and I don't want to lose that and while I don't think that that would happen in an active school that's like being used and I don't expect that I would love to have further discussion I mean maybe we can invite them to come for another discussion item about preservation at the school and that sort of thing you know because I don't want to see us lose that asset that resource and and this scares me how's that yeah I mean that's an interesting point too maybe we could also I know we're throwing out some ideas here but you just made me think of something um it would be interesting if uh if they have a design that could come on behalf of the school board whether it's actually a school board member um you know that so they could help us to to get to a collaborative approach uh as to what they would like to do here and and maybe we're just misinterpreting things and we need to you know have more engagement perhaps I mean I I get the impression that certainly the administration and the school board you know are focused on you know that institution and and I mean it is a core to our community and it's quar to that neighborhood I mean really like that is the neighborhood where the kids living in that neighborhood are going to public school they're not by and large they're not being shipped off to private school they they walk they ride their scooters I was actually I was actually there just and quick aside I mean I was there the other day and I was laughing at all the you know it's fully fenced in right the property and um when I was in school if you Rod your back to school you took it and you like parked it at the little The Bike Rack or whatever and you locked it up because you know it was exposed we didn't have fences all around our property at that point um but it was just a smattering of scooters all the kids ride their little like electric scooters to school I mean it's just a unique place that a lot of elementary schools I mean it's a k through eight um but a lot of schools at at that of that level outside of this type of neighborhood wouldn't have that type of walkability that type of accessibility um you know a true like staple of the neighborhood and I just you know I just want to make sure that we preserve it as best as possible not only from an education standpoint but a historic reservation standpoint Mr chair I don't know if you're open to taking public comment sure but we have Mitch noic who's a regular so I didn't want to slight Mitch Mitch are you there hey everybody you hear me yes sure okay good good afternoon Mitch novic like yourselves I'm bothered by the impending demolition of the structure in 2003 2004 I chaed former mayor dermer's Blue Ribbon panel on the structural Integrity of buildings where we issued a report and I wouldn't necessarily put the blame on the school board I would look within questions you guys should be asking is was this building certified and recertified 10 years every 10 years were the minimum maintenance standards within our code enforced and most importantly as was recommended in our report and I believe at one time was implemented or adopted is there a database of the vacant buildings which are the most threatened buildings with demolition by neglect again I appreciate the work you do and thanks for acknowledging me Deborah okay um I don't thank you thank you Mitch okay that that was it for the members of the public so does the board do you want to make a motion for us to be able to to transmit that to the C to the the school board I heard a few different things that perhaps you want to make a recommendation urging them to delay the demolition so sufficient documentation um can be achieved for the building prior to its demolition um maybe reach out and invite any representative of the school board or any of the school members to attend um an upcoming meeting of the historic preservation board as part of a as part of an ongoing discussion MH yes yes okay is that a that's a motion just anything else is there a motion um what what can we ALS well I guess this wouldn't be in the thing but this this report that Mitch said was it 2003 2004 yes yeah it was it was from I didn't understand I wasn't sure sure are you familiar with that report maybe we can do a little digging ourselves to see I'm not I I am familiar with a a ongoing um initiative by the city's building department Code Compliance Department including planning to identify vacant buildings um but I'm not familiar with this specific report that Mitch is referring to okay um okay so I guess we need a motion is that what you were suggesting to yeah it would be really helpful if we had the history of this building as I said you know this was a single family home at some point in time I think that's that's included in the motion is on the table okay so I think we would I I'll do my best to kind of consolidate so yes uh to make a motion that we um one um asked well I think both staff and perhaps the school board for additional documentation related to the property itself um historic resources report so to speak um to if the school board would be amable can we M Mitch I think Mitch I think you're still um you know if the school board would be ad meable to holding off on demolition just long enough to get documentation associated with the existing structure with whether that's 3D what chair what is 3D 3D scans scans or yes um you know photogrametry scans all kinds of photogrametry phot photogrametry is one way in which 3D map the um the surfaces so you get details from the surface onto a structure a 3D structure and um and then we would like to invite the school board or representatives of the school or both um you know to come you know before the board um and have you know a constructive discussion on what the plans are for the school you know fully recognizing that you know they have an entitlement to do this at the state level and and I understand and appreciate that and and to an extent I understand why I don't like it necessarily but I understand why um but to see if we can have a conversation rather than a a gacha moment um and so that we can better understand like what their plans are moving forward with the space and with the structure and landh did I miss anything Debbie is there a second second all those in favor yes okay I will will transmit that to the school board okay I have nothing else um today so we'll see you in November thank you e for