e welcome everybody to private provider 2024 presentation of the city of Miami Building Department this Workshop is designed to inform and assist you our private provider Community to be more effective and productive while working with us here at the city of Miami so thank you for being here we even have a catchy subtitle for you today I'm going to share with you some basic information that will help bridge the gap between your operations in the private sector and ours as an enforcement agency still the element of time does not permit this presentation to be all inclusive instead we'll hear some important Highlights today and direct you to sources of further detailed information presentation today has the following objectives naturally we'll explain our policies and procedures we want to offer guidelines and practical tips promoting professionalism we want to avoid unnecessary rejections and the all important make your job easier and Ours for today we have about 120 attendees at last count uh give or take many of them of you are from outside our local area and we welcome you we have a good cross-section of Professionals in this meeting private providers Architects Engineers plan expeditors and building code officials from across Florida and again thank you to all for signing up and thanks to those who submitted questions in advance I think we covered most of your concerns in the presentation itself but there will be some time for questions at the end I hope the information shared will be useful a word or two about your presenter my name is John corer some of you already know me as the manager of the private provider the program here at the city of Miami Building Department you may also know that private provider activities are handled almost entirely within our quality control section this means from your initial registration with the city throughout the project cycle inquiries and all business matters should be sent to private provider in Miami go.com which is monitored by a specially trained staff assisting me today is Amy himz who will monitor your typed questions via the teams chat now you're probably familiar with teams there's um a raiseed hand feature to ask questions however uh from past experience I know this can slow down the presentation quite a bit especially when we have a lot of information to convey to you so please use the chat feature to type your uh questions as we go along and I can answer them at the end at which time we'll also have an open mic section as well we expect the presentation to run about one hour more or less we'll see how that goes as mentioned earlier today's presentation covers many of the main points but for more complete information it can be found on our private provider acknowledgement uh we call it the form4 and it's available on our website we will put links to everything in the chat as we go along let me repeat here that our main point of contact is our email private provider at miamigov.com that is used for registration sending out your nbos communicating with perit technicians and other General matters for receiving all third-party inspection reports I have another email mailbox that's for threshold building reports special inspector reports and private provider reports when you're authorized to send them we have a special email progress progress inspection Miami go again we'll put links to everything in the chat feature today's program will consist of four main parts a general introduction that's who we are as a department um we'll talk about our concept of the private provid management system next we'll go into private provider practices for some useful information such as registration some general principles to go by the election process and plan review and inspection tips after that there's still more practical information and will'll be focused on the details of the documents themselves such as standard forms and we do have an AR of them we'll talk about digital signatures which is quite important uh plan review requirements and inspection requirements as they relate to documentation lastly and I suspect there will be some interest in how we approach the topic of quality assurance as it applies to our management of private provider projects and processes I'll tell you about our quality control section what we do we'll tell you what we do with documents and we'll tell you what we do in the field then finally do a closing segment including um taking some time for questions that should be uh interesting and let's move on begin a quick update of what's going on here in Miami and I do mean quick simply stated our local construction Market is still very strong period we're very very busy um being so busy you know we have to realize a building department is not some abstract concept represented by an organizational chart it's made up of people so the names you see here on are our leadership team they work very hard to serve the citizens of our community let me bring in now Mr Lewis Torres our building official to speak further on that Lewis are you are you with us yes I am John and thank you good morning I want to welcome everyone here to our 2024 private prider Workshop my name is leis Torres am the building official for the Department for those that don't know me I've been with the city for about 22 years I've been the building official for the last two years prior to that I was the chief building inspector having said that uh it is no secret that we are experiencing a economic boom that we've never seen before as a result we're seeing development construction at levels we've never seen before so as a as a department I think it's more important than ever before to really commit to simplifying the permitting process obviously the private providor component is an extremely critical part of that and throughout the presentation there's going to be a recurring theme of Common Sense applying common sense and the reason for this is because we are living in complicated times we have to be dealing with uh code changes all the time annual changes in procedures regulations in addition to that on on your end in particular the private providers have to deal with the county countless municipalities everyone has different procedures different processes so really uh and and to make the matters more complex right the the amount of volume that we're experiencing just makes everything all the more difficult so uh as such we believe that the when you're dealing with a complex problem the best solution is the simplest solution so giving you some background on our senior staff for the building department here is I can tell you that most of us have uh private sector experience and we've been in your shoes so we understand and and we we're applying that understanding to are our procedures and this is why in part we're having this uh this Workshop okay so uh basically it is very important as part of that process uh is your feedback feedback is what lets us really understand what is happening and if what we're implementing is working or it's not working so we want to hear from everyone here it's very important the good and the bad we want to know well what's working what's not so if it's working we can improve it if it's not working then we we would have to uh somehow change it fix it get it to work so so again it's all about I think uh working together we're committing to partnering with all of you and I believe in doing that uh and working together it makes it easier for for for all of us not just for us but both sides so having said that again I want to thank you all for participating and without any further ado I will turn it back over to John so John thank you Louis we'll move along so you heard some very interesting remarks by Mr Tores where are we today well the alternative plans review and inspection process process or the law is itself is very is complex it's confusing and private provider projects do require certain specialized administrative procedures which will vary from one jurisdiction to another now back in 2014 City of Miami here developed a system of policies and procedures including the use of standardized forms to manage the growing trend of using private providers for plan review and inspections um that was back in 2014 think of where we are today we're even more involved with the private provider process so that led to the development of what I call the private provider Management program that we've implemented here and have been using for number of years the main objective after all is to ensure full compliance with the applicable regulations the laws uh local ordinances standard practices the whole thing so again we are we are employing as much common sense as we can to do what we do in this next segment that we call Private provider practices we'll get into some important Concepts um we already spoke about a very important concept and that is common sense but um let's start with U some step by steps the registration process that's the starting point for all things private provider here in Miami all firms must be registered with us before doing business we do not charge anything for registration currently we have 24 firms registered with us um that number is has been growing for the last few years um not all 24 are highly active but we have 24 nonetheless I think the bulk of it is handled by about half that number we accept firsttime registrations at any time during the year but we do require renewals annually and that is done in the month of March which we just ended um if you have not done so some of the people in this call please be sure to finish your registration because they became delinquent on April 1st which is important because failure to renew um on time will result in a hold being placed on all new submittals all new projects the registration process requires a few official City forms but mostly a lot of supplemental information such as resumés driver licenses uh we must enforce the local business tax requirements of Miami day County and the City of Miami um those of you who we just encountered a couple of situations where you do not have a a local office um cannot get a local business tax in the normal process because you don't have a a local office cannot get a certificate of use uh you can still get a local business tax receipt it just has a requires a special process we do enforce that your documents are carefully reviewed for accuracy and completeness we see a lot of mistakes omissions they're very common and I have to say that that's the main cause for delays if it weren't for that we could get the process done with two or three four days uh sometimes it drags on for months simply because we don't get the information that we're asking for everything is verified and validated licenses your qualifications we check dbpr check your insurance um speaking of insurance your certificate must be sent directly by the insurance agent at the time of registration um I know some jurisdictions require that um the COI with every project we we don't do that um but we do require that any changes or renewals to your policy that we're kept informed periodically anytime your policy is renewed we have to have a new policy sent by the agent Etc again on the topic of insurance I believe most of you know that um there are statutory limits on the insurance basically you have two minimums um if you are doing smaller projects $5 million or less in construction cost you require $1 million in coverage per recurrence and 2 million in the aggregate that's the lower limit if you double that to 2 million 4 million you're not limited into the size of project you can have that's straight out of the statute when you're done preparing your information you email or uh physically sent it but email would be to the same private provider address if you mail it to us or Courier FedEx whatever send it to us at the 444 Southwest 2 Avenue address on your screen please be sure to mention a quality control section to the attention of now let's move Beyond registration and discuss some important principles before I go much further here let me let me say I believe again that most of this information is covered on other documents such as our private provider acknowledgement um many of the forms and documents we have are self-explanatory they don't require much commentary but again let me reinforce the concept that was striving very hard to do everything with common sense we want to know in the registration for example we want to know who you are we want to know that you're qualified we want to know that that um your insurance is up to date these are common sense requirements and so we carry that through to everything that we're going to tell you today some general concepts here here in Miami we do not allow plan review only by the private provider you're either going to do inspections only or the full service plan review and inspections we insist that only our official City of Miami forums are used for plan review purposes inspections and so forth we want the offic IAL forms used and they cannot be altered we want you the private providers to ensure that all work on the project that you're involved with has a valid permit if unpermitted construction work is observed need to notify us at once on the same theme inspection shall not be done until the proper permit are obtained let's try this one more time in a different way just to show you that we are very serious on this private provider or duly authorized rep knowingly conducting inspections without the requisite permits shall be treated as aiding illegal construction and may be referred to the respective professional boards for disciplinary review rivate provider is responsible for making sure that special inspectors including threshold inspectors are doing what they're supposed to do that they have inspected all construction under their responsibility and are maintaining the proper inspection records and obviously any safety issues that you find need to be reported to the building offici IAL at once this is something we feel is very important we we uh we need we looking at the the concept of continuity uh for example that the entire project be handled either by the city entirely by a private provider for example if Plan reviews are started by the City by us we will continue to do the to do the plan reviews until the end of the project that's all the way to the COO so that would include all revisions and Shop drawings if we start we finish conversely if the plan reviews are started privately then the provider will continue to the end if which we often see um private provider drops out now we do see changes to the construction Team all the time Architects Engineers contractors there's a change of architect and contractor process but the private providers can also change and we see that uh for whatever reason some are terminated some back out voluntarily sometimes the owner just wants to it just changes their mind well if that occurs the owner must find a replacement private provider if if that's not possible if that's not in the cards then the city if the reviews revert to us then we will start from the beginning meaning we will not accept an affidavit that shows partial approval on anything it's either going to be all city or all private provider on the inspection side if the inspections are started by the private provider the city will not take over inspections the owner must find a replacement private provider again the focus here is on continuity and no sharing of responsibilities let's talk about changing the private provider during plan review the owner may find another provider to take over full responsibility we'll need a new NBO new affidavits there's no sharing of responsibility between the original provider a and the newcomer provider B we don't allow that the owner of course May opt for plan review by the city we will need the affidavits that may been produced they will be voided and the city will re-review the plans from the beginning as I stated earlier uh let's talk about changing the private provider during inspections there's two two forms to this if the provider has full service that is review and inspections um here's how it goes if construction has commenced and there are no pending defer submittals then the new provider may take over for inspections only at the discretion of the building official if however deferred submittal that is shop drawings are still pending the new private the new private provider must provide plan review services for the entire project from the beginning in either case we need new documents that would be the the NBO we call it the A1 uh the corresponding A2 and A3 which is a change of priv Provider Services we'll get more into the forms later in the presentation now the other side of that coin changing the private provider during inspections when it's an inspections only project if construction commenced the owner must find another provider to take over and assume responsibility for all inspections completed in a new NBO if construction has not commenced the city may take over inspection rules from the provider at the discretion again of the building official any fee credits that were made or issued must be returned to us again in either case we need new documents to officialize that change I mentioned fee credits um there are mandatory credits statutory that the jurisdiction must issue and a private provider is used in the city of Miami they are calculated based on the building line item portion of the total fee that is they don't we don't give a credit based on in including anything on um Solid Waste fee or impact fees anything of the kind it's based on the billing line item only and here's how we do it if it's full service we reduce the fee by one3 if it's inspections only then we'll take half of that it's reduced by one half of that oneir on the positive side although we're allowed to charge an administrative fee for private provider involvement we do not do so so that's a that's one little Benny quick very few words about phased permits the phase permits as we operate here are based on Florida building code 10513 there are some differences um it's not strictly in accordance or as lenient as a allowed there the phase permits are issued at the sole discretion of the building official important to understand phase permits as we do it here are not for fast-tracking a project meaning your master plans must be completed and meet the standard of care imposed by your professional board your private providers all of you here must fully review the plans we're talking the master and provide affidavits for the approved disciplines those that have been approved if you have not approved a portion of it then we need the rejection comments for those disciplines that have been disapproved process requires the applicant request a meeting with the building official to discuss the specifics and at that point the building official will review all pertinent data and either will approve or deny the request foro phase now it's a complex subject this was only a brief overview of the concept this uh any further details are are basically the subject for a different presentation um but a lot of you here have already been involved and you know that it's it's a process all right the next topic we'll talk about is the private provider election as it applies to private providers it simply means that the owner opts to use or chooses to use a private provider this is the statute it says the fee owner of a building or structure or the Fe owner's contractor upon written authorization may choose to use a private Prov WR Etc but doesn't mention anything about lesie can lesie hire the private provider well naturally yes they can um but we had we have a special form now that that is a catch-all it's Universal it allows the owner's contractor there's provision for the lesie Les's contractor all those those criteria those scenarios will be accommodated the new form A5 which again we will talk about forms later on in today's presentation once again back to the same statute talks about timing when do we need to see or receive the notice to building official well the statute reads as follows the owner or the F owner's contract contractor shall notify the local building official in writing at the time of permit application or by 2m local time two business days before the first scheduled inspection so which is it that same that one sentence gives us two different points in time well here's how it works we need to have the NBO at the time of permit application if there are plan review Services being offered obviously we can wait until later for inspections only statute says two days before the first scheduled inspection however that's quite problematic for us we strongly prefer that it be done before the permit is issued um so that um any fee credits can be adjusted properly without refunds and such um ideally we need to have the ntp go not later than the last plan review cycle now this next graphic may be a bit shocking so brace yourselves it's really not as bad as it looks um all it is is um a graphic indication of the timing of the NBO top half of this represents full Services bottom half represents inspections only if we need to if we get an NBO statute says it can be during the construction period right there we want it here at this point so that we don't have to make the um awkward adjustments in fees over here for plan review and inspections we would like the we need the aid the sorry the NBO as per statute at the beginning and that is done there are two steps to that the applicant within our ibuild permitting system will make that request and simultaneously will send the NBO to that email address um to ensure that it's routed properly he the next segment here we'll talk about the various requirements for plan review UH responsibilities um as you all know we are now working electronically for the last five years we've been offering plan reviews through our Ean system although we are electronic we still do accept submitt from the applicant in paper format they are converted um by a vendor digitized and sent to us but we do have the original submitt in two forms the electronic way is described here if PDF files are submitted that is uploaded then all signatures seals and approval stamps must be derived from pki based digital certificates we expect the private provider to ensure that that that is done more on that in coming moments and the other method if the applicant is submitting hard copies that is the hard copies are coming out of the design professional's office they must go to a vendor to be scanned for for uh for E plan purposes but those are the plans that you will be reviewing if you're reviewing hard copy plans submitted to your office then you have to verify that all signatures seals and approval stamps are applied manually that's your responsibility because there cannot be any mix and match on the same document we can't have digital signatures and handwritten digital you know it it doesn't work important to state right here that all drawing pages must be signed by the individual reviewer who reviewed the plans either the private provider themselves or their agent the duly authorized representative and all drawing pages submitted to us must be stamped with this information that I'm about to show now a word about these quotation marks I'm using the word stamped and quotations for a reason that you're about to see the upcoming slides we want drawing pages stamped with something that looks like this this is just a sample does not have to resemble this exactly but the information that I'm going to show you needs to be there we want the firm identification put your address and phone number if you like we want to have the language that says reviewed for Code Compliance that is in the floor of the building code we're simply adding the following words reviewed for Code Compliance in accordance with Section 553 791 we need to have the reviewer identified on that stamp if it's a physical signature they'll sign here with name name and signature if it's a digital signature it look like that and finally the feature that we're looking for is this language now you engineers and Architects will recognize that because the board of Engineers requires that same language on your digital seal it says printed copies of this document are not considered approved and the signature stamp must be verified on any electronic copies um we highly recommend that because there's still a lot of confusion that um someone has in hand a printed copy of a previously digitally signed document or drawing and they're thinking it's original and secured it's not once you print it there goes any validity of a digital signature now an important thing that we would like for you to check for is the city when we approve drawings and issue for permit we put a what we call the batch stamp that is this seal image is applied in a batch to all the drawings at the same time this needs to be applied to every drawing at the top right our system requires a blank area at the top of all drawing pages and we when we receive them without um this stamp will obliterate any information in the title block therefore we need to have this feature on all plans you must enforce that before it comes to us there are requirements as to size and location depends on the sheet format smaller p uh Pages say a letter size will only require 2 in by 2 in larger sheets will require 4 and a half by 4 and A2 so please check for that make sure that they have that before you approve any drawings so do not approv drawings missing the blank area for the bch stamp once again digital signatures this is critic important and sometimes poorly understood let's look at the board rules again we're using the engineers Architects are similar Engineers talk about how and where to use a digital signature please note this is about digital signatures which is not the same as an electronic signature we require digital signatures in the city of Miami so what it says is that um the engineers shall have their identity authenticated by a certification Authority and shall assure that the digital signature is unique to the person using it capable of verification under the sole control of the person using it and here's a pain Point linked to a document in such a manner that that the digital signature and correspondingly the document is invalidated if any data in the document is changed we see that all the time that um approval stamps or shop drawing stamps are applied as an image and of course that does invalidate the digital signature now in the image you see on the screen right now this is a drawing executed physically they have the physical seal put on there by the delegated engineer this is a shop drawing by the way and you're you're going to have several as many as three maybe more subsequent stamps put on that drawing works fine in paper when we're talking about a digitally signed and sealed document here you cannot put your typical ink stamp on that paper even on the PDF it has to be a digital signature itself and so the key here is to avoid invalidating this by creating all your stamps from digital signatures again that is not well understood in concept it's little counterintuitive we hear complaints and you know protests well I'm not signing I'm not the architect I'm not the engineer I'm not going to put my seal on there well no you're not putting your seal on there let me show you with this graphic um really the concept as simple as I can make it if you'll bear with me in the digital signature world you Mr engineer Miss architect you've got to contact one of these companies here the certificate authorities to get your digited signature after after vetting you they figure out that you are who you say you are and you go through that process pay your fee select whatever plan you want to pay for you'll probably get something like this uh we see that a lot on the drawings that we get well anything that looks like that does not comply with your board rules for engineers for Architects it just is is not usable for submitting plans what you need to do is convert that to look like this or like this both of them are equally acceptable by your boards what's the difference between this and this well this does not have a license number does not state that this person has a professional engineer and so forth that's what you need to do need to put that information on there or an alternative you can simply forego the extra writing and just put an image of your actual seal either these two are acceptable this is not so how do you get from here to there you've got to take the raw digital signature modified edit it in a program such as blue beam and there is a process for that and that is a required step to get to this part here that is essential that is what every engineer or architect of record must do to be in compliance with digitally submitted documents sealed documents you could even redesign it in this way as long as the features are there it's perfectly fine so so there's a process to get from here to there and what you've done is you've taken that modified it and save as this or this or even this well that process of save as do the same process and modify that to look like your approval stamp it's got to have these features on there it's still a digital signature and digital signatures applied to the drawing after it's originally sealed and signed will not invalidate that so that's the concept to avoid invalidating a digital signature we still have people doing that not understanding there are some tutorials that U are available to explain that in detail but let's not stop here if we can get to this part here for the private provider approval stamp as described earlier you can certainly get to that and create a shop drawing review stamp so again it's a process of editing and morphing that image into either seals to be used as signing and sealing a document or stamps to be applied sub subsequently they're all digital signatures um it l ladies and gentlemen that's the best I know how to explain this um we will put links to various tutorials and again why am i showing this is because you the private providers need to be armed with information on what is expected here we don't want rejections we want to minimize we want to avoid the unnecessary objections please take a look at the drawings you're getting and ensure that they're following this okay okay all right something that bears a little bit of explanation and and uh maybe some um reinforcement plan review affidavits must be received at the city of Miami here not later than the second VI cycle now we understand that private providers often want their plans reviewed or the plans reviewed by the department such as Public Works fire zoning outside agencies such as durm Etc they want them reviewed and pick up comments before issuing the plan compliance affidavits under that theory you know you get to wait until all potential defects are captured and the plans are corrected before reviewing plans you want that prerequisite well let's point out let's remember that the private provider's responsibility is limited to these disciplines here building structural Roofing mechanical electrical and plumbing that is Florida building code items right plans should be reviewed for those disciplines only now it's the design professionals that must carry the burden of satisfying all disciplines not the private providers now that may still not be to your liking but let's take a look at what the legal requirement is again back to the statute it tells us what a properly completed permit application is four tests plans reviewed by the private provider which means stamped we have affidavit from the private provider fees to be paid and here we go we need documents that determine that that demonstrate that the fee owner has secured all other government approvals required by law so right there that tells us we need your affidavits at the beginning we are going to the second review cycle because again little Common Sense here we're accommodating uh but we will not go beyond the second cycle if we don't receive them by the second then your plans will be put on hold status some other tips do not approve drawings labeled not for construction or with any other phrase conveying the same meaning that they're not really ready for review they are ready for review that's why they were submitted to you do not approve drawings label with or reference only it's commonly abused unless the drawing serve as a key plan identifying the location of the proposed work or they provide contextual information such as relating a shop drawing to a master plan or to indicate that a portion of the proposed work was previously improved any other reason please do not approve drawings that indicate a reference only it's abused all the time let talk inspections by Statute provider must notify the building department of the date in approximate time of all inspections well approximate time we're good with AM and PM that's probably good enough for us but to do so we must have inspections scheduled in our City's permitting platform which is called I build that is what we consider notifying us just schedule the inspection and that will satisfy that requirement inspection reports must be kept at the job site and organized in a three- ring binder key thing here is that our inspector must be able to review those reports at any given time we we can't be going to the job site and ask for the inspection reports and say well the contractor has them in his office or we sent them out the copy or we can't find them no if city inspector goes there we must be able to see the inspection log at that moment the private provider must ensure that no foundation work is approved before setbacks have been approved and we have to account for partial setbacks also so again be aware that your foundations we certainly don't want the project to go ahead with foundations encroaching so we need the setback inspection to be approved first we're talking about inspections and reports and we did say that we want the official City of Miami forms used only this is a sign ific an change this time versus last year we have new forms this year we are going to insist that our report form be used now we did say no modifications but there's an exception we're giving a an open field in here for you the pride provider to put in whatever company logo or information you choose that will allow you to customize it with any way you want but only in this field field highlighted in yellow the forms can be filled out manually or as a fillable PDF and uh they again they must be um maintained on the job site at all times quick word about remote virtual inspections well there is no log book on site for virtual inspection so instead what we need is the individual reports to be digit signed by the provider and sent daily to this address progress inspections mygov.com so that is how we would handle virtual inspections doing with time 15 minutes moving on to the field book our log of approved inspections call it what you want call it inspection log log book inspection record what have you very simple very simple we want that the inspection reports be organized by discipline that's required on every job except the very very smallest of jobs I mean we need to have them organized by discipline um they must be signed dated and numbered sequentially um they need to be tabbed in a binder they need to be organized and we will check for that it's to your benefit to keep everything organized so that we don't start wondering hey where is inspection 62 you're jumping from 61 to 64 well by being organized you avoid those sorts of questions it really to your benefit as well in order to start closing out the process there is a C2 form it's been renamed we're call it the trade close out affidavit meaning that um at some point in time as the job completes you're going to close out all the mechanical uh so that it can be closed in our permitting system we need a a summary report which is this trade close out affidavit with that our inspector will close it out in our system per trade and this is pretty much a visual of how long how it would look in practice the objective here is to final out everything in our system um in a logical manner you know effect efficiently at the end when the job is pretty much complete there is a separate form which is a request for a certificate of compliance or some some cases a temporary Co there are different there's forms for everything essentially so that's part of the management system when properly used they work beautifully if they're misunderstood or misused it just adds to the confusion so I urge you let's let's start using the forms properly our inspectors will assist in any way that we can to to to help you understand everything in case I haven't made the point yes we do have a lot of documentation there are many standard forms that we use it's not just for the sake of proliferation they all have a purpose why why are we using standard forms and why are we insisting on that very simple helps to comply with all the laws and regulations some forms are required by Statute others we allowed to use or or to impose on you and simply for routine procedures you know standardizing is always useful to be consistent in uniform it's easier for your offices to to prepare consistently and for us to review tends to reduce errors with when you have standardized forms and lastly for the facial records that is something people don't normally think of but any public record request when they're looking for a particular inspection report the way that's done is it's a visual search if we know what a report looks like it helps us to find certain types of documents um but what are the documents We have basically four different categories here's how they stack up we have the registration documents only a couple of them we call it the r series we have documents to use for election it's the a series it includes the NBO uh the Personnel directory a change potential change of private provider um an acknowledgement form and the authorization form for a fee owner to allow a contractor for example to hire the private provider so that a Series has expanded this year we have the plan review series you know the B series you're all familiar with the log and then the inspections require the C and D series forms I certainly will not have any time nor inclination to go through each form but uh let's take a look at this one because this one is a significant change this year historically the NBO even the original form that came out of the building commission never allowed for the private provider to sign anywhere on it we found that has proven to be problematic we've even seen some cases where um we we get an NBO stating that um private provider Incorporated is going to be doing inspections only we process the form turns out private provider Incorporated never even heard about this maybe it was a ployed just to get reduced fees we don't know but we think it's important for that and also another practical reason for the private provider to sign the NBO and the other probably more important reason is we would like more control given to the provider's office to execute these forms right now they're left up to the devices of an owner sometimes an expediter who doesn't have much experience with the private provider forms um we think that by having you sign the NBO you'll have better control on getting a an accurate form so please be aware of that about the quality control section that's my group quality control section we we manage all aspects of the private provider program our current staff consists of a diverse group of Specialists we have perit technicians plan examiners inspectors technical writers we even have attorneys on board we vigorously enforce infractions such as document fraud we don't condone unpermitted construction activity professional negligence negligence we see that a lot we see notary fraud inexcusable with that one and Licensing violations too those we report all of the above to the appropriate authorities um I can't tell you exactly how many cases we have open with the board of Engineers a board of Architects it's many it's many and if something that we feel is important to do even though it's extremely timec consuming it takes a lot to build a case against an architect and engineer but we're committed to doing exactly that uh Please be aware we do not apply a standards only to the private providers we look at design professionals at record we look at their office Personnel expediters notaries all of them from time to time you'll see a bulletin issued uh chances are the quality control section had a hand in that um they're on the website this may be redundant but we take a look at at everything from the from the standpoint of Ethics we look carefully at unpermitted construction falsified or fraudulent documents unli activity that happens all the time why do you need to know that well if you know of any of the above you should report them to us uh we will pursue actions with dbpr and the appropriate authorities anytime that um they occur so we need your assistance on that please you might be wondering how the quality assurance relates to documents there's a common misconception here we do not re-review your plans we do not re review the documents submitt to it we process everything uh they're processed in a very strict way we check all paperwork we verify licensing status of the person signing in ceiling and we ensure that uh everyone who signs off on a particular discipline is in fact qualified to do that we take a look we we see for example electrical engineers signing off on structural we we take a look we ask you know it's not something that is good practice and we we use common sense whenever possible drawings and documents are checked carefully for completeness and accuracy during the pre screen process and by the quality control plan examiners please note that the NBO is considered official only when cleared in the pp acceptance review that consists of an actual plan examiner we take a look very carefully at the people's the people signing the NBO oftentimes we have people signing that have no authority to represent that Corporation we verify that through some bid times we we have a delay in approving that because there it's not verifiable in such a case we ask that uh we get something like a power of attorney or something some other document that will um assure us that the person signing the NBO is authorized to do that all of you who have done business here have struggled with the log of approved inspections the so-called belog well we carefully compare that I say carefully we carefully carefully compare with that compare that with all drawing pages um what that is it's a listing of the drawings you say are approved what would happen if you say that uh drawing a101 dated September 1st is what you approved that's what's on your log but the drawing we get the 101 was a later date October 1st that happens a lot so what we're seeing there is that someone pulled a switch on you that you did not review the latest document that's why we have to be assured that your log matches the actual drawing date if it's if the log is incorrect then it has to be updated to the new date on the drawing um that information does cause a lot of delays and rejections if there's one one Improvement that can be made on your side I would say let's please verify that all the t's are crossed all the eyes are dotted on the log and make sure that it matches 100% down to the Delta what's happening in the actual drawing set audits plans are audited all the time constantly it's an ongoing process here at the city I would say in the last year we probably audited close to close to 100 different plans but please realize that most audits do not result in any actions taken by us and we don't necessarily formally notify you that we get we've done an audit it's an internal process that we verify again the common sense approach here is that we are tasked with enforcing Building Safety that's the primary consideration we want to make sure that you know if if something is not done properly it be corrected and so our primary consideration is building safety the safety of our residents we do have an ongoing audit process um occasionally we do ask you to come in and and talk to us about why you missed so many uh defects on the plans um that process is not intended for any any other purpose except to improve all of us so that's where we're at right now with audits um there's another quality assurance measure we take in the field it's simply going into field checks we do send inspectors on a random basis to the field the main reason is to check the log make sure that their log is there and up to dat when we visit the site the Practical purpose there other than quality assurance is that we've got to record your approved inspections in our system if that's not done you run the risk of the permit expiring for lack of visible progress that has happened many many times so please be aware of that that we do we do need to go there if for no other purpose as to keep the job current in our system of course field checks for the reason stated May sometimes lead to an occasional inspection audit whatever we find over there in terms of effective construction must be corrected um there's no there's no negotiation on that if it's wrong it's wrong you have to fix it simple I can tell that I'm running way long right now so I think this part is overdue we're going to close out with um maybe some helpful dos and don'ts start with the negatives don't approve plans with defective title block information don't approve plans labeled not for construction don't conduct inspections until the permit is issued not allow construction or installation of any work until it is fully permitted not take on work that exceeds the limits of your insurance policy if you do increase your limits don't take liberties with signatures we see falsified signatures all the time and don't promise clients that they're guaranteed to get a phase permit there is no guarantee for a phase permit on the positive side do do keep your registration up to date do accurately fill out all your paperwork do coach your expediters and provide support even to those not on your staff do follow ethical guidelines do hire employees not independent contractors that's a statutory requirement do pre-screen your plans do work within your own expertise Engineers Architects plan examiners inspectors please remember that one do know that your plans may be audited do keep the inspection log on site and current finally schedule all inspections through ibuild so we're nearing the very very end um there's no way that we can cover everything um in one presentation I find we had to cram a lot of things since the time available and we still went over but we do have a separate Resource page for you um there there will be a link to that in the chat Amy I think we're we're handling the links aren't we good good so here we are thank you again for joining us today and we'd like to remind you that excuse me excuse me i' like to remind you that we have a newsletter that we issued in so subscribe to our quarterly newsletter this is how you do it just send an email to P2 news@ miamigov.com you'll find a lot of useful information in here and we we want to use this as a means of communication letting you know what we're doing and uh possibly some two-way on that also let us know how you're doing and what you want to see getting at the very end I failed earlier to give you my personal email but if you need to contact me personally for any non bus matter you know that uh would otherwise be handled by private provider at myiga.com my personal is J porfiry atm.com drop me a line let us know how we're doing good or bad and um we'll uh use this remaining few minutes to take some questions again type your question if you haven't done so already or raise your hand uh okay so how we do the chat okay I see a question can the okay sorry ladies and gentlemen little glitch here in the broadcast studio uh good morning two questions will you provide a copy of the slide deck and a list of the attend these please uh we will we are recording this and we may turn it into a PDF as well next question um okay Ricardo how is the city going to handle the new state regulations for private provider and Authority having jurisdiction under house bill 267 um good question we have a meeting scheduled actually today internally to discuss that we we know there's going to be some changes but that's not going to be taking effect until January of 2025 all right can the private provider digitally sign the plans for all duly authorized reps no no we want to clarify we clarified that today um the plans must be signed by the person who actually did the review if the private provider did the review personally great sign the plans if a duly authorized rep was used we want that person to sign the plans Ricardo again when will the new forms go into to effect is there a 30-day a 30day grace period to allow fine no we don't intend to disrupt ongoing projects all new submittals new nbos new new projects with inspection reports it'll be phased in that way we don't want you to just change horses right in the middle of a project no good question thank you I do not understand this next question how successful are your cases what are your results and can you can we get a copy or find uh a copy of your reports if you're referring to sir are you referring to uh complaints to the dbpr is Charles there okay moving on to next question how will the city handle the private provider reporting non-compliant activities uh please provide documentation of process and timelines for City responses again a clarification on that question it'll be talking about the the person who is a uh subject of our complaint what is are you asking yeah this is this is Rick bermudes from Arc RI Ricardo please explain that question again please sure absolutely if we find um work being done without a permit or we find that they've uh signatures have been falsified um how quickly will the city be able to react so that we can you know Force compliance and make sure that the jobs aren't slowed down by okay you know waiting weeks and weeks and weeks for a response thank you well look um some common sense approach again if you see something that is UN unlicensed activity if you see something that's maybe a a falsified plan and it's in your hands just some things can be rectified with a quick phone call you know just call hey Mr uh architect is that really your signature on there you know uh ask it right there if you suspect intentional fraud then you report to us and we will take a look at it and see if it's you know if it warrants any formal action keep in mind building a case is extremely time consuming against Architects against Engineers but uh make no mistake we have staff dedicated to doing exactly that we do it all the time but we're not going to do it for the slightest of infractions uh if they're accidental you know that's that's a big determining Factor so if you see something that's very serious let us know and the timing will jump on it immediately we have to prepare the case prepare supporting documentation um and then the board that rules whether it's the engineers Architects contractors they'll come back with a request for maybe supplemental information then we have to go and dig in deep and give them what they're looking for again it's a long process but we will act upon it quickly understood your question Rick sure does okay thanks um okay Jordan your hand is up would you like to ask a question yes I'm here with r he'd like to ask a question oh that's am yes John can you hear me I can uh who speaking rup is that you is it just say R John okay yeah uh speak a little more clearly so that we can all hear yeah John we are all in a group together with uh over here uh with with Mr Jordan so uh so first I want to to thank you and your staff for uh for this wonderful seminar we we got lot of good information uh the other question is when do you plan to have a followup on this group I'm s followup on what on on this seminar are you going to have a periodic or you going to have this one time no uh we we well you were with us two years ago and I'm sad to admit but we skipped last year so we plan to do this annually and perhaps even more frequently but uh the midterm seminars may be a little bit different than this this is very comprehensive we may Focus from time to time on one particular topic for example may maybe we'll focus on inspection procedures in September October I don't know something like that but a repeat of today would only be done once a year okay John the the other thing was that uh from the from the private provider qualifier point of view what what the city expect as much as when it come to the qualifier uh for the uh for the pride provider the qualifier um what is the direction of your question R you you mean what responsibilities we give to the or we expect from from the qualifier right yes sir okay well when we say the qualifier if an engineering firm is engaged in U offering Engineering Services there has to be a qualifying agent right um some of these private provider firms in in the audience today are either an engineering firm proper or an offshoot of an engineering firm there has to be a qualifier for that firm similarly with Architects um it gets to be different when the building official is the private provider running their own firm that's a little bit different story but it it's nothing more than a contact person who has the prime responsibility for running the operation ethically and um in accord with State statutes and administrative rules that's basically it there there's no special um you know kind of liability that we look at or anything like that R okay okay okay Jordan was that your question also okay John I have one more last question John um yes sir that based based on the information you have provided to us um do you have anything or any kind of checklist what what what you have come across from the contractor's Side by any chance a checklist for inspection an inspection checklist yeah I mean you know yeah that's correct that's what I'm looking for kind any specific finding we well I'll tell you we are in the process of developing various checklists right now the ones we have been using in the city yes were never private provider uh focused and they need updating anyway so yes my team is constantly doing documentation and Sops and it's it's like trying to empty a swimming pool with a teaspoon it's very very difficult and long process okay but I thank you for the question it just reminds us of what what what more needs to be done yes so thank thank you John for my side I appr you're welcome thank you okay um Katrina I see a chat question in the chat uh for shop drawings does the E need to add some middle stamp on every single plan sheet or do this approve the cover sheet no shop drawings are are drawing pages the only time we we work on the cover sheet is when it's a uh calculations you reports of that nature no drawing uh drawing pages for shop drawings could be storefront um railings no every page of those needs to be stamped Jennifer Jennifer you have your hand up yes I do thank you John go ahead hi good morning um Dan I would like for you to please provide more information on the uh approval signatures and plans is it only by the private provider because that's the way it was said on the last Workshop it's only required to for the private provider to sign approved some uh plans okay not authorized yes excellent question and thank you for paying attention at the last workshop two years ago um I think we heard leis Torres in the beginning mentioned the fact that um you know the way circumstances are with how busy we are we we need to adapt we we our processes do change from time to time based on C certain circumstances what we found was working that was working back then may not be working now so um we are currently going to insist that it's the actual reviewer that provide the approval stamp on Eastern drawing page this is no different than um than our own staff before we went electronic you know remember when the plans were being routed from one desk to another and then uh the mechanical reviewer would sign their name on the mechanical drawings the electrical reviewer would sign their name on the electrical and so forth we wanna we want to make sure that the actual person steps up and actually says yes I reviewed this plan and I say it's fine that's quite different than the affidavit the affidavit is being produced and prepared by the private provider excuse me saying that yes I certify this but I did use an agent to do the actual review so those are two different things we want the drawings to be reviewer specific um the affidavit always has to be the pre provider themselves okay thank you Jennifer thank you and then Renee Rene TFA Renee hey hey Mr John how you doing and everybody are you are you hear me yes Renee nice to hear from you go ahead um I have a question and I think I already sent it about the phas permit I have always an asking and have you know very very questions about phases with the aors and the owners and the generic contractors because we have three steps in the phase we have Foundation or vertical and even uh we know and I asking for that all the responsibility is going to be for the qualifier until we get the master permit is get to the point that now they sent the entire set and they say no no it's only phas it's only phase and at the end you know if we approve because Bas at that this in Phase when they come in with the 200 drawings again they say no you already approval on the city whatever so I would like to know if you have any established um guidelines and any any way that you already identify or asking for the minimum drawings in building and life safety for example and in all other disciplines about the phases and how you difference in between I know that the fooding is only up to the footing and vertical you put there everything but with the node I ask in the node in in the section of section one of the Florida building code that is going to be responsible of all the entire work for the qualifier and if anything is wrong later we they have to fix it but they send now 300 drawings so I would like to know if you have any limit or you have any guideline about the f how you asking for anyway we're going to working together um thank you for this great Workshop great like always Mr John thank you so I would like to know if you have that or you planning doing something can you doing something or send something about the face and how you handling so we can working together in that because for me it's a big dilemma now thank you R thank you for that very very important question and uh thank you for putting me on the spot and finding a good answer oh it's yours sir yes no um phase permits are different than they were several years ago than I think about a year and a half or more ago we stopped issuing Foundation only phase permits now that's not to say that we don't we still do site Improvement permit and and such you know things like that but um the class one class two went out the door a couple years ago we're only doing vertical at this point that alone begs the question what do we require there well I would I would answer it this way that the standards for review are definitely different we probably do not want in a phase vertical the same set that are submitted for the master thank you there are a lot of drawings in there that don't need to be there thank now this was especially true when we were doing Foundation only foundation only we definitely don't want to see cabinet details we don't want to see um reflected ceiling plans now that's important for foundation permit um that's an extreme example of course but it's equally true with vertical phases it can be a paired downset but again unless there so much is being left up to the Judgment of the reviewer that it's it's almost unworkable so at the risk of disclosing prematurely anything I will say that we are taking a hard look at the phase permit process and the concept in general but processes will change for the better that's correct John for the better in the next uh again I'm speaking on behalf of the department but not really because I don't have the authority to speak on behalf of the department uh but I'll give you a preview we are working very hard to make that much much better easier and more um the better product all around easier for the applicant and and easier for us and a more streamlined process at the same time holding the standards higher that's what we're shooting for so instead of answering your question more directly Renee I'm going to answer it that way is that all right with you absolutely yes if you if you have any future guideline or any workshop with this you know entire subject uh for me is very important because every time now let's say 500 300 drawings that say no it's for phase and come on because it's phas only and we're going to be responsible okay but later when they come in with the 300 or 400 three or four more drawings they say no you already approve is this is only Master you already approved so we trapping in some place that you and us going to check in and say hold on a second what's going on so we have to I think have a limit about face at to what point because also we have life safety we have a lot of things that this they put together and Russian because it's you know only phases later they come in and I have that dilemma and problem no you already approved you already approved so now I want to know with your people also in combination and others are going to check in and verify what we're going to see and what we're going to accept it as a ph and don't get more than that and later we can com in back and say look all this has to be fixed even we put I asking for put the note is responsible of the qualifiers thank you sir appreciate it and one more time John you are you are you are the best thank you John may I make a comment um yes who is speaking Grace Grace yes Grace yes Grace hello John you're 100% correct in your response and Renee if you if you want you can go ahead and reach out to me I know that we have a soil Improvement sample packet of what we um like to see when it comes to those um permits and we don't have one for the vertical phase but maybe that's something that John myself Ron and Lewis can come up with and then we already have that as a sample template okay okay that can be great because we have to stop this and see and find the way that is going to be typical and at the end we don't put more and later we are trapping in the he it's approval I and and now what we're going to do that's great my name is rate Rafa everybody know me even John and and if you want I have my email over there so we can any question anything I can help you and we can help you with mtci the team we are there okay thank you perfect okay thank you thank thank you Grace thank you Renee for the sake of time let's move on I think we'll take maybe 10 more minutes of questions I know a lot of you have questions uh Juan Diez go ahead Juan hi yes uh good afternoon John um specifically I I'd like to ask about how the private provider is supposed to um provide oversight on third-party inspections like uh threshold and special inspections uh the city want supping inspections that we do um and that's fine we do that uh but uh we're not always necessarily notified about uh threshold and special inspectors so uh inspections so how would you want the private provider to handle that type of situation good question uh one we're not asking you to inspect the same thing as the threshold inspector nor the special inspector but when you are on site swing by take a look the at the inspect special inspection reports make sure that they're up to date make sure that work is not being installed without being inspected there is an overlap of time when you guys are on the job site at the same time the special inspectors are make use of it we're certainly not asking you to to duplicate their inspections no ways nothing like that just to be aware what they're doing not duplicating my question is reporting these inspections to the city I you know I'm not I wouldn't know when they're pouring a level eight slab uh or or something like that uh how uh these structural inspections these threshold inspections uh how do you want them to be reported to the city because I've had inspectors come to my job sites and they say well you guys haven't reported these structural inspections um you know sometimes most of the time they they get all this information at the end so how do you want has to deal with it ju yes uh thanks for that look here's a very quick pointed answer to that we see a lot of projects that go go up nobody pulled the Shoring permit now that's basic you know we either have a Shoring permit or we don't um you need to be aware of the health of your job of the health of what's going on we're not asking you to you know coordinate timing and scheduling and be there when they're collecting uh you know you know cylinders on the concrete not at all but we want to make sure that you are at least aware enough to know that there was no continuous monitoring of the lightweight concrete to know that nobody pulled the Shoring permit those are the kind of things that you should be able to to be aware of and and notify us that's part of the verification process that you know we expect you to do okay um does that help Juan with your with the answer uh yes uh the only other question I have is uh about exped Expediting trade reviews uh what would be the process for uh for the city uh you know pushing these along or getting them reviewed Faster by the the the trades in the city particularly shop drawings for shop particularly shop drawing reviews for things like Shoring or post tension you mean when okay do you mean when you have plan review responsibilities yourselves as well question of the you talk about the review okay so then inspections only City Review um well again our staffing limits uh dictate the timing you know our staffing um is what it is we we have strict task uh uh everyone has to work on their task list and they have a certain number of days in which to execute a review uh sometimes um we go over uh we're pretty good with it but again it's what Lewis had mentioned earlier that we are experiencing a high level of volume right now that makes things difficult sometimes things cannot get done at the at the speed with which people would like um we'll do the best we can if you know on a case-by Case basis if you see something is taking longer than it should reach out to us you know um we will do the best we can one okay thank you thank you um Katrina your hand is up uh yes um I apologize maybe this was said before but for the duly authorized do they have to have for the approval stamp does it have to be an identa trust or a global trust signature when they approve plans or or it's just a stamp with their their information how how that that's a little um if if it's not a digital I think maybe you might have tuned in a little bit late um if it's not a digital signature by Nature it's going to invalidate the original Engineers signature therefore they have to acquire their own identity uh their own digital certificate with either Iden trust Global sign UST diger any of those that are thirdparty verified certificate authorities pki based okay no doc sign so D so dly authorized have to get their own uh if if they're going to sign the documents yes they do okay and I might add it has to be their own certificate being stamped on the drawing you cannot have a generic office stamp which was acquired by again I use the word stamp erroneously I don't mean stamp you cannot use a generic office acquired digital signature and stamp it on the drawing and say yeah the office is actually putting the office signature but it was actually Joe Blow That reviewed the plans no Joe Blow has to stamp with the signature on the plan himself okay it's that non-repudiation concept and the digital signatures so yeah it has to you have to going to you're going to have to invest in some uh digital signatures for your staff it's not that expensive okay thank you rejections are much more expensive Katrina yeah yeah okay no problem thank you thank you Abdul you have a question your hand is up is it yeah can you hear me I can hear you go ahead yeah thank you for very informative uh Workshop uh we learned a lot uh my question is simple uh right now all the plan compliance SE divits are vet sign and seal is it uh can we signed digitally I'm going to ask you to repeat that question because I could not hear the whole thing So currently the plan compliance of divit after the review is uh wet sign and seal right can we do a digital signature for plan compliance we do weeks yes yes you may you apply a digital signature as long as all the signatures on that document are digital okay that's it thank you now if now here's another um admission if you will signatures um the state requires let's put it this way an architect or engineer of record may use a digital signature but in the traditional sense they're going to sign and seal physically the paper drawings correct I mean we all remember those days they were like yesterday and they're still happening today and I'm all for it but physical signatures need to be original when submitted to the building department original means you're going to see the blue ink on the paper original does not mean a photocopy of somebody's signature now if you're this is a direct answer to your question can you digitally sign the affidavit yes you can but and I did say not to mix and match but here's the procedure under which you can digitally sign and it would be acceptable to me to us here if your duly authorized representative physically signs the document and it is physically notorized by the notary that is ink on paper and you know that to be a fact and they give you a PDF to you we think it's perfectly proper for you to digitally sign that document and submit to US unless it's that way you know in that process that chain of let's say chain of Authority or chain of custody then it would not work out does that answer your question Abdul so as soon as the authorized representative physically signed and then it's notorized uh and then after that I do a digital signature then it should be fine correct you're the last one in you would have to be the last one in line yeah make the PDF typically yes got it yeah digitally sign the PDF and we'll we we'll go with it okay so as soon as I'm the last person that okay got thank you yeah okay okay I have uh M Modi you have your hand up am I pronouncing your name correctly yeah you can call me Nez too right here okay what's your question um so I have actually two question one is that can the GC the general contractor call the ongoing inspection with City of Miami instead of the private provider absolutely absolutely but when the private provider goes we need to be notified of when they go if you're if you are schedu in the inspection it ought to be the contractor it's actually the statute that requires the private provider to notify us so to streamline this we're okay if the private provider schedule is it an I build or if the contractor um does it as they normally would as long as there's no as long as it's all synchronized you know we're not missing any any visits by you we have to know every time you go what's your second question uh is it possible to call it the day after because there might be a possibility that we call the private provider let's say inspection is at 8:00 in the morning and then they call IU City of Miami 2 City of Miami inspector gets there earlier than the priv can can we call that inspection day after no we need to know no negative we need to know in advance when the private provider is going to go for their inspection okay that's what the statute requires okay understood and the second question was I uh could you please repeat the setback requirement I I didn't get that part uh correct correct um obviously we can't build a building closer to the property line that is allowed by zoning a setback inspection is required um unless you have don't don't approve any foundation inspections unless you know that the setback has already been approved first simple as that what method can we use sir to to show that we verify that set back a surve you have to do an statement what document no there you would check the inspection history in in our system I build it would say that the you know inspection you know setback inspections were approved or they weren't you know if they were not approved already you know sometimes you'll see the the inspector on site you know a building inspector would do that setback inspection but uh you know there are different ways of where you can ascertain what's going on you may you may go on Tuesday morning to check the rebar and in the foundation cut um and see it's okay but you will withhold your approval until you verify that the setback has been done that's possible okay okay all right and we'll take about five more minutes of questions because we have a lot but we're also running way over time and uh it's exciting that there are so many questions but U we who's next Amy we took care of that one I am here Renee you have another question yes I have couple question in one uh can I ask him time one second okay I think may this may be the last question for this this meeting thank you thank you one is the the passenger loading zone I have every time problems because many of the A and the owners and contractors H tell me that when we need passenger roading Zone that is very directly directly with the Ada and the entries and when they have parking ballet parking so and so they say that the city of Miami public work and also zoning they don't allow to put the passenger loading zone in front of the sidewalk where they can you know everything that going imply to the H passenger loading zone I would like to verify if if is the three Department building zoning and public work who decide that or just only have the authority of zoning and public work and if they don't allow we sometime we they asking for go to the parking and provide there the passenger loading zone so it's I want to verify I'm very sure I probably you you have to check about that but I want an answer about it is true that the sonning department or the public work don't allow you know in any new building with parking or any other regulation that asking for the passenger loading zone that they cannot put it you know in front of the building in in the in the way that's supposed to be that's one and the second is about the phase um and about the foundation and the setback do you we do we have to have in consideration the the Repose angle when the loading coming to the bottom of the fooing if they pass or encroach the ismen or any property line also we have to have in consideration and we have to also approve a plan exam architectural plan layout before you know anything and and behind the the side plan an extra plan with all that Foundation because that can be critical and also the calculation and the angle of repulse if they going in any isman or past the proper line that you don't see because it's below the the footing the bottom the fooding thank you Renee um your first question about the public works I'm going to decline to address that because it sounds that um it's Project Specific and I would have to do some research with public works and see what's going on there but feel free to call me or email me privately that's fine thank you on the second question about the um the foundation and the setback and the angle of repose well think you know in your in your mind where is the concrete going to reach after it's been placed right the concrete encroaches can't allow it okay was that a good good enough answer for yes these are very thoughtful questions Ren I appreciate it okay with that we're gonna have to close um but I'll say that if we were not able to get to your questions um it was only because of lack of time but feel free please email your questions to private provider miamigov.com and we will answer them in short order keep in mind that we're probably going to be recovering from the time spent on on this uh preparation of this presentation we might take a few days to answer your question but we'll definitely get to it so let me thank you right now all of you for attending and uh we'll see you next time um stay tuned don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter all right thank you all thank you y great representation by