##VIDEO ID:3ul1bGsCw50## tell sure gonna make sure it's live streaming and then we'll begin than accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 be advised that a notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and mailing to the officially designated newspapers a list of meeting dates annually indicating that this meeting would take place at the Town Hall at 7:30 p.m. on Wednesday September 18th 2024 roll call cor Alison celd here Michael here Z here SJ David Michel Z here thank you um welcome I I see we have a robust um public audience tonight um it may be some of your first uh planning board meeting um so to that effect as we get into um each order of business including the application I'll just give a high Lev overview so everybody knows what to expect um as we move through the meeting um and we just ask if you need to take phone calls or any personal business please do go into the hallway or out so just to keep our meeting as we're picking up uh on YouTube and we want to make sure we're not having um cross um conversations thank you um so the first item of business tonight is ordinance 2687 which is the proposed uh Amendment supplement ing um the development regulation zoning ordinance it was a um a brief or minor relatively minor change um and Graham our planner um is able to speak to us about it just to give the board uh and members of public a brief description of that thanks gra uh good evening Madam chair members of the planning board Grant pedo here uh this evening board planner um so the ordinance before you this evening on referral from the township committee ordinance 2687 d24 um seeks to amend the membership of the development Review Committee um to include a member of the environmental commission as a representative to participate on on the development Review Committee um by way of background the development interview committee was established um under ordinance 26 27-22 back in 2022 um and you know just for consistency purposes for your review to support uh you know relationships to the master plan uh I'm going to refer to that uh that review that I provided at that time uh because essentially by just adding an environmental commission member um the effect is is pretty much the same to facilitate efficient review um so the process um you know established by the DRC and expanded to include a membership with the environmental commission will expedite application completeness determinations and limit the extent of revisions uh made to Applications during the hearing process before the board streamlining the application process uh these outcomes Advance the 2018 master plan re-examination and updates recommendation to promote clear userfriendly and transparent application review and public hearing processes for development proposals and applications which is contained on page 48 of the Master Plan reexamination update on page M1 as well Happ I Mr I think it your opinion is that the proposed ordinance that is introduced and not yet adopted is not inconsistent with master plan that's correct as presented it is not inconsistent with master plan any questions for gram based on that characterization M commission as always we prepared a resolution in advance for the board to make its determination as the board knows this is not a public hearing public hearing on the ordinance uh excuse me that issue would be uh before the governing body on second reading on a later date but this is simply determination by the uh planning board on referral pursu to the municipal land use law whether or not the proposed ordinance or introduced ordinance I should say is not inconsistent with the master plan planner has advised that that is his opinion it's not in consistent with the master plan the one-page resolution that we provided for consideration uh reads that way uh so the board can as always go right to a motion second and a roll call vote to adopt the resolution if the board concurs with the master plan consistency opinion thank you um I move to find ordinance 26 8724 not inconsistent with the master plan and also to adopt the resolution as prepared by council do we have a second sorry Cory biller yes Alison camfield yes Michael Cullen yes Frank Sandy yes San yes VJ yes David cosgro yes G heler yes that's yes thank you appreciate that thank you gr also for your input um the second item of business is the uh discussion and Adoption of the planning board bylaws we um previously had reviewed a draft of the proposed bylaws we provided um uh Corrections red had a circle to black line version I think you had two outstanding comments at our last meeting that you I think was your homework to look into and report back absolutely Madam TR I I take full responsibility for protracting the adoption of the bylaws a little longer and I appreciate bearing with me uh there were three items that were addressed uh on page 1 one col 1-3 I added the additional requested language uh that the records for all pending applications uh shall be kept in the board office at Town Hall during regular business hours and paraphrasing as is required under the municipal land use law but here uh in M Township we go a step further uh and we've added the language uh and to the extent reasonably practicable such records will also be available online on the township website not required by the municipal land use law but over and above kudos to the township for doing that number one number two uh I did ask for on two items I wanted to make sure that the board's requested changes did not exceed our Authority or we were not preempted by state law and uh I had an instinct and my instinct was correct uh we would be Pro preempted by state law in one instance not the other with respect and it just so happens to be the board attorney there is the ml provision uh section 24 as well as case law Authority regulates who can and can't be a board attorney into every municipality in in the state and the prohibition is against uh a Township attorney or Municipal attorney uh not every one of the 564 municipalities is a Township some are Burrows uh cannot uh cannot also serve a subsidiary agency including a planning board or zoning board uh because it is a regulated field by the state it's my opinion that further limiting who could be a board attorney at least in our bylaws would run a foul by way of being preempted by the state regulations so my recommendation is to not add that additional language that was proposed which would further limit and and have some sort of super majority decided who count and can't be the the board attorney uh so I did cross that out on one col 1-6 however can you just read how the language oh certainly uh it's back to being fully consistent with the municipal land law the board shall annually appoint or reappoint an attorney at law of the state of New Jersey having recognized competence in the law of local governments land use and Zoning the board attorney shall not be the township attorney uh then it goes on to say the board attorney shall be compensated pursuant to agreement shall be the legal adviser representative of the planning board the board attorney shall prosecute defend litigation and appeals on behalf of the board um the other additional requested language has now been stricken because of the preemption concern uh that said the final item one 2-5 uh in my research I could not find any statutory or case law preempting our board from doing what we wanted to do there majority board I believe wanted to add uh this has to do with special committee uh appointments uh special committees or at Hop committees may be established by a vote of majority of the full membership of the board the additional language requested that can be added and can be added in my opinion any member May nominate another member or volunteer oneself for appointment to such committee upon nomination of volunteering the chair May appoint such member to the committee Who Shall Serve for a term to be determined by the board when it asks to establish such committee and here's the additional language the board shall have the power to veto the chair's appointment of any Committee Member by a majority vote um democracy in action I guess but uh so that can be permitted uh in my opinion so I've left it in those were the three items that I held us all up on uh so with everyone is comfortable that the board can proceed to adopt uh uh the uh bylaws which would replace the ongoing existing bylaws thank you and it would be a majority vote motion second and uh you can actually do it by Voice vote if you wish okay any questions or comments okay I move to approve the bylaws as now amended I'll second all in favor oain okay no problem um that said I think the bylaws are approved thank you thank you fantastic okay um as noted on the agenda uh and also I believe uh noted online application 24002 which was 288 main Milbourne LLC the matter is being carried uh to the October 16th meeting think it had to do with the the notice requirements I I believe so if I'm not mistaken I think the newspaper missed okay um but then if I may Madam chair because the ml reads date time and place uh and so to cross the teas and Dot the eyes uh the date was mentioned October 16 that that matter is being carried to the time 7:30 pm the place here thank you Town Hall thank you much appreciate it okay that brings us to our application uh for the evening application 24003 I Center for living Judaism this is for preliminary uh and final site plan approval um and so H before we bring up Council I'm just going to give a high Lev overview as I uh mentioned earlier on the procedure um the applicant will have representation who will will come up and and speak from this uh Podium right here um we'll likely introduce him or herself uh give a high level overview of the application uh and then one by one uh Witnesses for the application will be called so we'll have Ty such witnesses as a traffic expert as an architect um perhaps the owners um we have maybe other different experts um environmental uh expert may come we may have an engineer um we are possibly not going to get to every one of those Witnesses tonight possibly we are um after each witness provides their testimony which is done with the applicants uh representation the board members get take our turn and ask questions to clarify during that time following board questions I will turn and say do any members of the public have questions for this witness so if you have a question pertaining to the specialty with which that witness just testified you if you have a question about traffic and this person's talking about architecture you can come up and ask your question but they may say I'm not able to answer that question um completing the uh questions for that Witness I will then say do any members of the public want to just provide testimony so you don't have to ask a question you will just be sworn in you can provide your testimony regarding that that witness's uh discussion that witness will then be seated the applicant will then call up their next witness which is like I said maybe the engineer maybe the architect maybe a planner we will go through the same process they will provide their testimony the board members will ask their questions then I will turn to the public and say to members of the public have questions for this witness so on and so forth um so that is the the order so I just wanted to let you know as as members of the public if you are here and want an opportunity to speak you will have that opportunity following each witness if if it's if your question is pertinent to that topic um we are we're still before 8 o'clock so we have lots of time to get to hopefully a lot of discussion this evening um between 10: and 10:30 I'm going to start keeping my eye on the clock and we'll usually um you know try to to find a logical pausing point if needed um and then we would carry an application if we don't get to all the witnesses tonight Council what am I missing no nothing but I I just being a little repetitive myself if I may I'll just repeat a little bit of what you said maybe supplement a little as well uh first and foremost if you're not familiar with the process it's somewhat like Court uh because this is actually a quasi judicial board uh these board members where volunteer members are hearing evidence uh from the applicant and from all members of the public whether you be supportive or objective uh and uh at the end of the hearing process which is very similar to the way it works in court and there are statutes and cases and regulations that govern how this board can operate uh they will enter into deliberations and render a determination I think it's a fair bet the applicant and applicant's attorney will let us know if the applicants concurs but I think it's a fair bet they're not going to finish this evening uh uh the the uh uh the way it works generally again and I apologize for being repetitive Madam chair and first and foremost as is already being demonstrated everyone uh should be civil and treat this as if we're in a court because in essence quasi judicial we are in a quasi Court throughout these proceedings uh and they have that type of decorum and cility that is associated there with uh the applicants going to probably give us an opening through Council um each witness is going to testify to a particular area of expertise presumably maybe there'll be a fact witness on operations that's usually what happens after each witness memb of board members board professionals with the chair's permission uh and members of the public can all have an opportunity to ask questions of that particular witness uh in court they call it cross-examination based on that witness's direct testimony throughout this process the applicant has the burden of proof there are standards that govern and you'll hear them by before the end of the case uh that this uh that this planning board and these board members who are in essence judges and jury uh must employ uh legally hearing the facts and then making their determination as to whether the applicant met that bur approv or not um and they will hear from all members of the public as well members of the public not only have an opportunity to ask questions um but after the applicant's case is completed uh the uh members of the public have an opportunity under oath just like the applicants Witnesses must be sworn by me under oath uh to make comment why are you sworn in because your comment should and will have the course of testimony nothing less just like the applicants witnesses will be swor and in their their their comments will have the force of testimony uh the um you have a right all members of the public have a right to have Council represent them in an organized fashion represented if they so wish or any group they so wish you have a right once you make under oath public comment testimony to introduce documents uh to introduce exhibits you can have Experts of your own if you wish that is all allowed under the procedures under the process the procedures are governed by a statute called the municipal land use law uh as well as the open public meetings act everything must take place all the evidence must be presented to these board members in this room uh during the properly noticed open public hearings no one can submit a letter or a petition uh to the board if you want a piece of writing to be introduced as evidence when you're sworn in if you have personal knowledge about it you could introduce it um but you introduce it through your own testimony why because under the state and federal Constitution we have something called due process and the confrontation cause everybody is entitled to be able to ask questions uh of anybody who testify so the applicant attorney at least has the right to ask questions of any members of the public who testify when you do testify or any experts that you may bring to testify on behalf of you the uh but again nothing outside of these hearings we call it expart tap because we like to use Latin every chance we get the the um and of course no communicating the board members know they cannot communicate about a pending application uh outside of these hearings be it in the supermarket or wherever else okay so please do respect them in that regard they do this on a volunteer basis for the benefit of the community um again when all the applicants Witnesses are done that's when we open it up to public comment uh and any objectors or case so to speak should you have any expert Witnesses um I think I've covered everything I wanted to cover again at the very end when everybody has rested their case uh that's when the board will deliberate uh and render a determination as to whether or not the applicant met the burden proof for this application and whether or not the applicant gets the requested relief that they see party started I I've taken enough of your question sure so uh if at some point during the proceedings the board feels the need to get an independent expert to verify something that has been testified to is that it again Council for the applicant weigh in but certainly that's provided for under the municipal land use law where appropriate uh it's not uncommon for boards to in addition to the independent experts you have already planner and engineer that this board has uh and if consider myself an expert with no humility whatsoever your board attorney um but you you if it's warranted uh you can and generally the way that works is frankly the applicant uh uh Bears the B the cost if it's appropriate for that expert uh because this is a situation where I apologize for getting granular as they say nowadays um but it's a user fee type situation uh public taxes don't go to pay for applications additional costs are paid for by the applicant uh who is using the service of the experts who are there to independently advise the board long winded attorney's way of saying yes thank you okay with that we call uh applicant 243s attorney for thank you uh very much Madame chairwoman members of the board good evening I am uh applicant 20243 attorney otherwise known as Michael LaVine I'm an attorney with Fox Rothchild here this evening representing applicant the high Center uh for living Judaism Inc uh the property that's the subject of our applications at 165 Oak Short Hills Road Block 2306 lot 11 it's located in the R3 residential zoning district and contains approximately 3.32 Acres um what the applicant is seeking the board's approval of is a house of worship that uh involves two uh requests from the board a conditional use approval uh PS pursuant to the conditional use standards that are imposed on this use under your zoning orings as well as ponary and final uh major site plan approval uh the fact that this is conditionally permitted use makes it a little bit different than just kind of a generic flat uh permitted use permitted principal use and what I mean by that is there are a separate set of conditions that apply only to a proposed house of worship that wouldn't otherwise apply to um permitted uses in the R3 zone or any of the other residential zones in fact there are 12 separate uh conditional use standards that apply to this use and our application that we've prepared and submitted uh complies with each and every one of those 12 separate conditional use standards to give you uh specific idea of the standards that I'm talking about uh the lot is required to have Frontage on a primary secondary or collector Street as shown in the circulation element of your P master plan as opposed to a smaller less travel Loc Street there's a minimum lot area uh requirement of 3 acres which is substantially greater than the uh minimum lot area requirement in the underlying residential Zone there's a minimum lot Frontage requirement of 200 feet there's a minimum lot depth requirement of 250 ft uh vehicular access is required to be from other than local streets if the lot has multiple frontages which this one uh does and complies with that requirement uh the maximum lot coverage has to comply with the requirements of the underlying residential uh zone so that's one instance where the particular conditional use standard is not more stringent or more demanding than the underlying uh requirement of the residential Zone that's kind of the exception rather than the rule with regard to these conditional use requirements there's a significantly enhanced setback requirement the minimum front yard setback required is 100 feet stantially larger than residential uses uh in the residential zones there's a minimum sidey yard setback 40 ft a minimum rear yard setback of 50 ft there's an additional minimum required buffer to uh adjoining residential uses of 25 ft that wouldn't otherwise apply to a residential use there's a minimum parking setback requirement of 20 feet and finally the 12th of 12 is um the proposed height of the house of worship must comply with the maximum height requirements of the underlying zones there again that's the second exception whereby of these 12 conditional use standards it's not a heightened or more stringent requirement it's just demonstrating compliance with the requirements of the underlying Zone um so those conditions those conditionally used standards are imposed in order to help ensure that the proposed conditional use in this case our house of worship remains compatible um with the underlying uh permitted uses that you know won't have a material adverse effect on the uh permitted residential uses in zone this a conditional use that's permitted throughout the residential zones here uh in mil in Milburn Township in addition to these specific more stringent requirements this application also complies with the other applicable bulk standards that commonly uh apply throughout the residential zoning District the applicant does not acquire any relief of any sort with regard to those requirements as well um so that I think is important context to bear in mind as we go forward with our application and what I'd like to do uh initially with regard to the uh witnesses that chairwoman referred to my first witness I'd like to call is our civil engineer we've submitted site plans as part of our application um it's an involved application there are several sheets to that plan set so I'd like to give you uh walk through the visuals and the description of physically what it is we propos to do at the location John if I could get you up here and in light of the significant number of folks we have here who are interested we're prepared to either kind of do this the oldfashioned way with a physically mounted board or if you can bear with us for what would probably take a couple of minutes we do have a laptop with the same information that we can project on a screen if that's more user friendly to the folks that are here we're happy to do it either way are you able to facilitate it no okay then we will go ahead and do it the oldfashioned way um but I think if we all have the plans in front of us and we can reference it I'd welcome if you face it so that the me the public can see it in such a way what's the best place to do that one of the corners perhaps so we're not you typically you do it and you want to face it out and just tell we make sure we all referencing the correct Pages just want F from the public to see do you have a separate microphone do you have a separate microphone that you like the witnesses to use or we will have them use the one that you're holding it it moves you can pick it up and can walk it okay and I'll either have to stand next to him or just speak really loudly should it should pick you up yeah if you're projecting and can we just ask you to turn it a little bit more towards the audience thank you we have the these exhibits that are on the website are these exhibits that were previously submitted C yes I mean uh if you have anything that's rendered at all or at all different from what's previously submitted will just have that mark identification but otherwise yes they're exactly identical they're just fullsize copies of what's on the show them from the website onto the screen on the screen the request was and if I may Madam chair if you before you begin I I did want to reference that I did have an opportunity to review the notice uh I found the content of the notice to be sufficient uh pursu to the promar case P run case and with progyny uh I found the notice to be timely served uh it was served by way of publication uh on September 6 and it was served by personally served by way of certified mail to the 200 fo property and I think confir reference mailing slips with the tax assess notice that's list but uh it was served on September 6th and just by way of confirmation for members of the public uh it's a 10day service uh and the way the municipal land use law reads uh the governing the provisions governing service of notice made clear that the service of notice made by certified mail is deemed complete on mailing the date that it is mailed irregardless of when it is received uh it is when it is mailed it must be mailed at least 10 days prior to the hearing date September 18 and the documentation provided with the affid service and publication demonstrated that it was mailed actually on September 6 if my math is correct I did not go to school for math but if my math is correct 12 days more than 10 days before this evening so uh the uh as far as I can tell by way of the contents of the notice and its timely service and publication it certainly appears that the board has jurisdiction to hear the application and I'll swear in uh with the chair's permission all the intended Witnesses even though some of them may well not testify this evening I like to do that out front so we don't forget and it's on the record anyone who may if you could stand up and come forward we're GNA get you sworn in now and we'll just get the names after I swear you and uh expertise if any after I swear you in but if you'll all three please raise your right hand as well as our planner uh and our Engineers not here this evening or is not here this evening and we swear in our board professionals as well please raise your right hand again do you swear to God all of you do you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I doir yes thank you all your names and strong I'll start John fan f as in Frank E R R A N T Daniel dubinet d a n i a l duu b i n TT Mandel bosi m n d e l b o g o m i l sky thank you thank you sharff commission back to you Advocates SC all right John thank you you've been sworn in could you please um acain the board with your educational background and professional experience please yes i' be glad to uh Bachelor of Science in civil engineering from new College of Engineering a master of science in civil engineering from the same institution been a professional engineer inate in New Jersey for well over 40 years and I have been a professional engineer for that uh period of time I've been recognized as an expert witness hundreds of applications throughout the state of New Jersey uh more recently some of the uh neighboring townships chadam chadam burrow chadam Township Madison Summit Irvington East Orange newk and when you say you were qualified as an expert uh was that in the area of civil engineering and Cy plan design that's correct and uh my my license is current like to offer this gentleman as an expert in civil engineering if I may thank you that was going to be my question thank you for answering it we will hear you as a civil engineer thank you welcome um all right so could you uh John take us through one thing I neglected to mention turn off cell phon as I check mine to make sure it's still off good timing for the reminder sorry about that and John with the uh site plans that we've submitted in support of our application this uh evening uh prepared under your direct supervision correct yes and um if you could I would like for you uh beginning at kind of a 3500 foot level if you could just acquaint the board and the members of the public generally with the characteristics of the of the subject property and then uh drill a little bit more deeply into uh the uh proposed improvements that uh we're seeking Cy planine approv correct again just for the record uh the drawings that I'm presenting tonight that the board has a revision seat dated uh August 13 2024 the version I have here tonight is the same drawings that were submitted I we provided tonight A colorized version just to make the presentation I'm not sure if the board has a colored version of the drawings we I do U it look like this at least we have no you don't uh guest on would you be able to share your okay so we don't have to mark the draw if nothing's changed from what was submitted at least 10 days prior to this evening we can we do not need to mark it as a separate exhibit and we can just uh refer to it uh just make sure you have last revised page and you're letting us know uh what sheet designation you're referring to when you get to each sheet understood thank you yes yeah uh first of all I'd like to provide an overview of the site as uh indicated we are in an R3 Zone and uh I'm happy to uh to uh to notify that uh we as our attorney indicated this is a what we consider a clean application we have no variances we meet uh all the requirements for the zone for our use for conditional use and we are not asking for any design waivers typically uh application as you know are aware Engineers tend to uh ask for some waivers in in design but we were able to uh to provide an application tonight where we're not asking for any design waivers no variances are proposed so uh we're happy that we were able to uh meet all the requirements and standard of the application as far as the overview of the property is indicated and now I'm referring to my drawings title figure one which is uh we're providing an aerial an aerial view of the site as you see the the subject property is located in the center and shaded we are a corner lot and we uh are on the uh southwesterly side of the parsonage jaill road and uh Ure Hill roads both roads wanted to indicate our uh County Roads so we're also subject to County uh planning board approval which we will submit to uh the site as you can I just to uh to correct that actually we simultaneously submitted for County planning board approval when we submitted our revised plans to the town um they've acknowledged receipt the rabbis confirmed that they've cashed the check uh but we've yet to receive uh their report back so that is still pending very thank you the uh uh the aerial shows that the property had a residential home uh situated in the middle of the site uh based on our recent visit to the site this the the resident has been demolished so uh the aerial is obviously does not reflect that but also indicated on the aerial is the site is served by two existing driveways one from parsonage Hill and one from old Short Hills Road and you'll see when I presented the the site plan we endeavored to uh to locate the new driveways pretty close to the existing uh driveway locations obviously to make it easier from a from a let's say traffic perspective and and ease of uh entering and exiting the site uh the site I want for the board to to be aware of the fact that we have submitted a separate traffic report and um we do intend to present live testimony from the traffic expert one of the reasons why it might be a bit premature is as I just mentioned we don't have the county uh planning board's uh report back yet they doubtlessly will raise questions and issues that need to be addressed as well so uh rest assured there will be detailed review of the traffic report that's been submitted the methodology the counts and commentary on any uh recommendations that um may be made from a traffic uh standpoint uh from either the town or the county I may Madam chair while we're on that subject alerting members of the public and the board as to additional Witnesses that'll be forthcoming presumably on another evening uh in addition to a traffic uh engineer uh do you anticipate any other Witnesses such as a professional planner or otherwise a professional plan okay and uh at the at the moment those are the oh and so I don't know that those gentleman gave you the benefit of their uh areas but uh Daniel is our architect our project architect and Rabbi would course provide the operational back based testimony with regard to post operations of the facility and those are the presently intended I think five again I didn't go to school for math five witnesses that's correct okay neither did I thankfully I have enough fingers we're both fortunate to have enough yes thank you again um some of the features of the site as you can as the aerial correctly reflects it's heavily wooded on in essence on all four sides the center of the property uh where the uh uh the former uh residential home was not uh wooded but uh and also as as I'll present later uh we tried to to Sal to save as many of the trees on the property as possible we try to maintain all the trees uh surrounding uh to our neighbors uh to uh to to help with the visual uh uh impacts from the from the project uh the other uh important feature that uh uh dictated how the site plan was designed is the site slopes nor North from the north from uh uh parsonage Hill to the north and uh directly south to the neighboring lot to the south towards uh uh the the other streets and there is a minor high point where the drainage currently uh will flow to the uh to the Southwest uh so um because of that uh to topographic relief on the property roughly 25 feet from parsonage Hill down to the to the Southern Property Line the designing the uh the site the site plan with the parking lot we had to take a advantage of that of those slopes so and that's one of the the reasons why you'll see from the presentation why we divided the parking lot into an upper lot and a lower lot to sort of to take advantage of that topography uh the other features of the site is there's an uh a drainage easement uh there's a storm water uh uh line that was uh uh conveyed underground and it Daylights on the southwest corner of the property and uh that uh that drainage feature conveyance has a 20 a 20 foot easement and we had to consider that so the the constraints on the property just to to to summarize is the the slope and topography uh there there is a repairing buffer on the on the uh on the location of the uh underground pipe that Daylights on the property that we have a pretty uh severe uh uh side front yard setbacks we are a corner lot so we have two front yards so we had to satisfy front yards on on both on both uh uh uh front front yards towards the two the two two streets uh and and obviously and and and the uh side yard setbacks for this property because we are a corner lot we do not have a rear yard but we do have side yards that we had to manage uh as well so um so with with that uh what we're providing uh and I'll turn to our figure figure three is the existing is the existing U uh survey of topography which indicates all the the the relief that I that I mentioned the two driveways the drainage feature to the to to the drawing left there are two uh a small retaining wall a small late p uh slate Pao that will be demolished but in essence uh this survey indicates uh the large amount of trees that are there so that figure two is the existing condition drawing and and figure three is our is our proposed site plan and with that uh I'll introduce the the site plan so what we're proposing obviously is the house of worship which is shaded in that and shown in the center of the drawing and we will we located the parking lot to the rear which we call that the upper lot then a smaller uh lower lower tier parking lot to the to the South and the purpose of that is obviously the upper lot is primarily was designed to serve the primarily the the house of worship and the lower lot is pretty much reserved for for staff as well drop off uh the the architect will uh will describe the the actual building it will have a basement with classrooms a a a a uh main floor uh worship area and some uh additional uh space on the second floor but I I will not get into the actual details of the of the uh uh of the house of worship but the as far as the site plan and uh Madam chair uh I was not going to go through the bulks in detail because we need all the bulk requirements but if the board lik and I think our attorney gave an excellent presentation of all the bulk requirements that we had to meet and we do meet them so uh with that it leave it up to the board whether uh you want me to go through the bulk requirements in detail sure thanks uh to board members given that we noted it in compliance with BK requirements anybody would anybody like toit testimon do we do we know whether any of our professionals have confirmed that if the application was accepted as such and they don't require a variance then then accepted it yes if I may M the two things uh one applicant will present uh their application the way the applicant Wishes the board will not decide how the applicant will present the case as and the board will not decide how any other interested parties present their case um so you make your own decisions in that regard but that doesn't mean you can't ask the board for input but ultimately burden of proof and how you present your cases is up to you as the applicant um the uh I I think the uh if our planner wishes to address at least the initial uh understanding with respect to the existence or lack thereof of any V es or design waivers based on the testimony that was provided thus far by the civil engineer I'll defer to him to do so recognizing that through the course of any proceeding things can evolve things can change uh I think it's yeah just can you just be in the mic sorry thank you and and our planner Mr pedo is swor so uh you know the engineer has not given you know detailed testimony and review of the plans to this point but uh we did prepare our report uh in review of the plans as provided and as as indicated in our report there is no relief that is required uh of the applicant as presented um we look forward to hearing additional testimony and as Mr Warner indicated you know should any relief be identified then we certainly would would follow and expand upon that just for the record that's planning report number one dated September 12 2024 authored by you correct that's correct thank and joh if you will uh and I certainly don't want you to uh belabor for the benefit of folks that might not know exactly what we mean when we say bulk requirements and and the nature of them and how expensive they are if you could just very uh briefly uh just kind of tick through with reference to the Chart that's on uh sheet three of your plans just the particular bulk requirement because just to to to clarify the 12 uh requirements that I uh reviewed which again is not just for me to say we have to demonstrate that through our testimony and our experts but the 12 requirements that I was referring to specifically specific to conditional uses um heightened generally more stringent uh conditions in addition to that there are a series of of what's referred to as bulk requirements or bulk standards in the in the R3 Zone and all the other zoning districts in town with which we also comply and are prepared to demonstrate but for folks that don't know exactly what those are if you could just very quickly the requirement what the ordinance requires and and what our proposal okay is with regard to yeah and our the bul table that we provided is really reflected in uh figure one which I can turn to just the public say that again yeah our bulk table uh zoning data uh is shown on on our figure one okay and I'll I'll go through uh the main requirements um and obviously in any application the minimum lot area is an important one three acres are required and we're 3.32 uh the minimum life Frontage 200 F feet uh existing is 371 and we're maintaining the 371 on Old Shore Hills Road 318 on parsonage the lot width is uh required 115 and we have 371 and 318 exist and we're we we're not changing that the lot depth 250 and in and uh in this case we we consider the the lot depth we it's it's met purely by the the size of the of the property another important one is uh maximum principal building coverage and that is the the size of the building footprint in relation to the overall lot size the lot size again it's 3 acres 100 uh uh it's 3.32 Acres 144,50 Square ft so as far as building coverage that were required to to meet 133% existing was only 3.1% and what we're proposing is 5.83 which so we're well below the 133% uh another important uh uh requirement is the lot coverage which is the maximum uh development that you can place on a property uh of often referred to as the imperious area that you're you're building on the property John if you may just could you explain briefly uh what's the difference between a building footprint and overall impervious coverage what does impervious coverage include that's not uh over and above the building correct yeah the the building coverage is that's an easy one it's just the building itself footprint the impervious coverage of the entire lot it covers the driveways the building the parking any any hardscaping sidewalks things of that nature retaining walls so all that gets uh aggregated in in this case the your the ordinance requires 35% uh the existing U uh was about 10.8% and we're proposing 34.78% so we really uh to meet the parking requirements and the accessibility uh we we were able to design this lot uh and we're we're just under the uh uh the lot coverage as as indicated we're at H 34.8% where 35 is required the building height I'm sorry to interrupt you um you You' said the the word required and I just want to clarify for for myself and anybody else having the same question we don't require that at 35% covered by impervious that's a maximum correct I you said you meet the requirement but the maximum we're not asking for 35% 35 is the maximum for its Z okay thank you correct thank you uh the building height obviously is always a forget the floor area ratio right the floor area ratio is again it's the it's a ratio of the floor area of the proposed Redevelopment primarily the building floor area divided by the total uh area of the of the property and the F for the for this site is 25% that's a Max a maximum again apologize and we're at 14.531 feet and uh we are at uh we're able to uh 100.2 feet uh old Shore Hills Road and 105.7 parsel road side yard on Old Short Hills on both on both uh uh roads is 40t and we're 99.4 and 178 so we're we meet those requirements there's also an additional uh uh sidey yards which they require a combined sidey yard of maximum of 35% of the lock width for which for this project is 130 feet and where uh we meet that and uh the no rear yard obviously not applicable then as indicated earlier there is a minimum buffer to residential zone of 25 ft and a uh maximum uh setback for parking of 20 feet and we meet we meet both of those uh requirements could you just note by what by what margin we meet those uh those minimum requirements yes correct the uh the minimum buffer adjacent to Residence is uh uh 25 ft and we're at 31.4 to the parking not to the building just want to make that clear so the and I'll show that on the site plan when I go back to figure three and the uh the parking set back 20 feet and uh we're at 31.4 to the to the parking obviously so we we conservatively taken the the buffer uh uh requirements to the residents at the uh at the at the parking lot and thank you very much for that John it was a mouthful I think the only one that you may have missed missed and if I missed that I apologize is there is also a maximum Building height requirement but I don't think you mentioned pardon the the building height two and a half stories 32 32 feet and our proposed building uh that the architect will show the public and the in the board is two stories and 32 feet so we meet uh that requirement as well and uh with that I'm going to go back to figure three the parking lot and be able to show uh the board a few things in the public I'm now referring to figure three and we start with uh again the siding the building and where we where we propose a building as you can see we show lightly where the the front yard setback so we located the building at that intersection of the two front yards so the building is set there the parking lot is to the rear and obviously we're always looking to uh site the parking lot to the rear and not towards the front uh so we based on the topographies I indicated we have a a two-way uh entrance driveway coming off of Parson Gill on as you can see here toward at the middle of the site and uh so we have an upper an upper lot uh with roughly uh uh I have that that that number but the other thing that I wanted to uh to point out that I I uh went went uh over real quick and just to provide a quick uh overview uh and I'm now I'm back to figure one just to indicate that old Shore Hills Road and parsonage Hill at this location have no sidewalks uh our property on the west side of the shills Road has an existing sidewalk uh Park Ro Park Road does have sidewalks and uh as noted there is a crosswalk at the end of Park Road that that allows the public to cross uh old sh Hill Road to get to the other side where there is an existing uh sidewalk and I think that's an important uh uh element that uh the intersection of uh Short Hills old Short Hills and parsonage Hill is not uh not lit and there's only a a stop sign that controls that intersection again um now I'm back to figure three and and figure three in indicates the the site plan as as the designed the the parking lots the upper and the lower parking lot as I indicated the building the access drive so what we what we decided and also based on the TRC meeting that we had had with the town it was recommended that we originally we we had these spaces dead ended that we provide abilities so that uh traffic can flow easily so we we added a a a means to uh for for anyone looking for parking spaces to be able to to um make that turn and find additional parking spaces so and then we have a one-way uh uh exit towards the lower parking where we have uh 20 22 spaces if I remember correctly and then a two-way exit out of the site uh to with the two separate Lanes one for uh left turns North on allshore hills and a right turn South on uh uh again on all shos road so the the only entrance to the parking is from U pars parsonage Hill on the North side uh as indicated so the and also the uh we we have to since we are considered a major a major project we have to meet all satisfy all the required New Jersey D storm water management which uh last year DP has uh revised the regulations and made it uh more stringent not only in being able to to to to retain all the storm water on site so all the storm water that we have to retain is uh uh less we have to release less than what the site currently releases as far as storm water but as you can see though we're capturing well over 90 95% of the the uh storm water that's generated from the imperious coverage and managed through the two storm water features and also U one of the things that we have to also satisfy DP requires a green infrastructure uh that has to be in place and we provided a a bio retention Basin uh so that we can uh uh reduce we have to remove 80% of all the suspended solids from the parking lots and that drainage uh feature does that as well as the uh the main stor rotor management Basin where we're retaining the the the the storm water from the entire site and uh holding it and releasing it uh slowly off the site and we're fortunate that we have uh an existing storm water uh catch Basin near on oore Hills where our overflow from the Basin is tied there the other thing that we're fortunate that all the utilities that are required for this project are located on Old shills Road and as indicated on the drawing we're making all the connections there uh on all Short Hills also to to provide additional uh safety for the for the project where adding two two fire hydrant one in this location and one down at uh at this uh this other location I'm sorry madam chair if I may when you say this location that location for the benefit of the court reporter and those of us well for all of us uh can you speak directionally as as much as possible understood the the the additional fire hard that we've uh located is located on the North side at the edge of the parking lot and the the water line the tap to the existing main is to the north on H parsonage Hill and then the other fire hydrant that we're providing is on the UR Hills Road and we're tapping in in located here uh roughly looking at the scale about uh 100 feet from the intersection uh where we have H where we're doing the Firewater tap on the with Firewater main uh so that uh that's a quick overview of the of what we're proposing as as a the driveway uh the the parking lot the city if I could before you before you continue on too much further you uh provided a fair amount of testimony about the um storm water management and the basins and the existing basins and what we're proposing and you reference D regulations and that they've recently become more stringent to kind of put a bow on it if you were you're kind of you know bottom line it how will the storm water generated from this site once it's developed compared to predevelopment conditions will it be better worse or the same well uh better in the sense that for the from the uh surrounding area as I indicated from the existing condition the site it slopes from the uh Oak parsonage Hill straight down there's about a 20 foot relief so all that storm water currently is not captured it's she flowing across the site and uh most of it is really ending down at the Southside and and to the Southwest so we're capturing all that water from the let's say from the bulk of the site that's not currently being captured now currently not absolutely so as far as that's concerned uh we're capturing all that water and and we have to reduce the the 100e storm that we designed to uh so the as 80% less than what the pre-development storm flow has to be so we have to design for the two-year the 10 year and the 100 year so all three of those storms have to be captured and retained the other requirement that the DP imposes that the Basin it's the the tension Basin has to be uh uh emptied within 72 hours so the way we designed that we have orifices so that the water is retained and let out slowly to to be able to meet those requirements and uh obviously the board engineer will we submitted a a full report he uh excuse me they'll review it and uh provide comments and uh and we'll address any comments that we receive from them the U can I ask a question about um when you did that calculation of like sort of the base condition for storm water flow um did you consider the property to have some um perious surface were there's today you with the property was the building cor I mean that's a great question the one of the main uh parameters is the the condition of the property uh in the pre-development condition in this particular case the property other than the existing building that was there and some uh parking and some driveways was primarily a a a grass and uh wooded uh right right which generates a a c value of roughly you know. three in the current condition the average uh value between all the Redevelopment is much higher so that generates higher higher storm waterer flows that has to be uh managed I'm not sure I'm following you're saying what is happening there today with now no driveway and no building creates higher storm war no no less much less okay the Redevelopment creates a lot higher flows that has to be managed correct and that's why DP imposes that the uh the post- development flow has to has to be less than the pre-development Flow by by a a factor of safety that they provide not only that just if I may now that I'm talking storm water the new regulation really requires us the in before the new regulation went into effect we would design for a 100-year storm with some uh uh factors of safety multiplied now we have to design for the 2100e storm which is a as we as we know storms are getting much a little more intense and so DP has issued regulations to to be able to to uh manage that uh addition question does the predevelopment condition include a building or does it not include building includes the old building that was there although the application is coming forth as exist today does not have a building correct okay so when the the calculations were done the the uh the building that was there was being demolished so the the area that's there now where the building was occupied we would consider that impervious uh to begin with even though the building is not there because the soil is packed down okay I yes to further clarify then are you saying that you considered the arguably vacant now lot to have impervious coverage where the impervious coverage previously had existed I.E the footprint of the home and correct Footprints of all other impervious coverage driveways Etc correct okay thank you and again follow up to to Mr Warner an effort to kind of sum up and clarify is it your testimony then that notwithstanding the fact that we're proposing more impervious coverage than was in the existing condition correct even taking into account impervious from the former single family dwelling and its accessory structures and even though the balance of the property is grassed and wooded that notwithstanding that post development with this proposed house of worship the uh storm water generated and flowing off the site will be reduced absolutely yes thank you and and it's not sheet flowing it's captured which is a big big big improvement with that I i' like to cover the uh the parking calculation say that one more time um that the storm water generated is going to be less than what it was with the imperious surface it's going it's not less it's more volume more quantity that we have to manage but the what's being released off the site is less than what's uh in the pre-development case it will be retained on site so retained on site but not infiltrated into the ground in this particular case we're not infiltrating we're retaining and then letting it out slowly okay that's going into the storm aitor correct any other questions we like our storm water we that's why we I covered it early because it gets a lot of questions as far as how do we calculate the parking uh in this Zone uh parking is calculated as far as what's required spaces it's based on U the the use and for this use it's based on the th five spaces for every thousand square feet so the what we're proposing as far as the house of worship is uh with the all the floors 21,27 so based on that calculation we need this project needs 105 parking spaces and John if I may I I know you referenced that as the most stringent requirement is you are obligated to demonstrate compliance with that but strictly speaking doesn't the ordinance with regard to parking for houses of worship require the greater of the standard that you just referenced or one space for every three seats in the sanctuary correct and you we use the the most uh impactful requirement thank so 105 spaces uh we are uh providing 95 total spaces 73 in the upper lot 22 in the lower lot and uh we're also providing a 10 electric vehicle spaces uh within that uh 95 total number and uh the requirement for Ev space is based on the new on the New Jersey EV uh electric vehicle uh requirements is that uh uh we would be required to have four uh electric vehicle spaces we providing a 10 addition a total of 10 and also with the law you you uh it provides a bonus for electric vehicle by law uh that uh of 10 spaces so 95 + 10 gets us to the 105 uh parking spaces that uh we're providing of which 73 are on the upper lot and 22 are on the lower lot so in in in in this case uh based on the advantage of the uh of the uh bonus we are uh uh the way we've calculated we believe that we meet the uh requirement for 105 spaces we're also providing the I apologize for jumping in I'm gonna ask question first you can ask the the plans Show 14 EV spaces you're testifying there's just 10 14 I thought I count to 10 in the upper lot and I count four in the lower want to count a difference between the number we're providing versus the maximum am yeah credit the maximum credit is 10 correct that's the difference but you're providing 14 correct but then you're just adding 95 I don't know I'm a little we're we're only allowed a bonus of of 10% of this of the EV bases so that's how we got to if I make further clarification the the the 95 provided includes the 14 electric vehicle spes corre okay so in essence you're providing 95 spaces5 spaces are required but by virtue of the 10 Space Credit it reduces the obligation the requirement from 105 to 95 and therefore you are saying that you have your compliant 95 provided 95 required correct correct it's a we it's bonus versus credit it's really minor difference so that's the uh how the the parking was uh was created uh was calculated the uh the other feature of the site is uh the total disturbance we will require a a soil erosion sediment sorry I have a question on the parking and I looked at the traffic report and I saw that there were 16 Make Ready parking spaces so we I think that's referring to the prior version we we revised the drawing subsequent to the TRC meeting and so the traffic uh report may may not have caught up to the revised drawing thank you the other the other feature as indicated we will need a soil Eran sent control report because we are we disturbing more than required 5,000 square feet the other important uh aspect that the site plans and the townships uh require they always want to know about steep slope disturbance we're fortunate that the the site has only uh uh 27 2,782 square fet of of uh uh steep slopes and they're focused on one area that with steep slope is at the where the storm water feature Daylights the the the slope of that uh ditch uh it would be considered a a Ste slope we're not touching that the other one is uh close to the intersection of Short Hills and parsonage there's a small area of a steep slope we're not touching that so uh so in essence as far as steep slope slopes even though there are a small amount of steep slopes on the property we are not disturbing uh no steep slopes zero disturbance of steep slopes uh the uh the next traffic circulation uh I uh I I think I went through in my previous testimony the only thing I want to add is that uh we have no dead end spaces in the in the parking aisles and that's always something the municipalities are are concerned conceded about and we were able to U mitigate that so no Dead End aisles and uh also uh the the widths of the lanes are uh larger than what would be required by the by the fire department the 20 ft wide uh lanes and uh I'll I'll I'll show that the traffic uh truck turning radiuses study that we did it's in uh later later uh drawings of figures that I will will talk about uh the storm water we we spoke about utilities also we spoke about we're adding the two hydrants Landscaping is also another uh another area of uh uh uh Keen interest by the boards and the public and if I may I will turn to the uh Landscaping Plan before I do that I want to just go back to figure two which is the is uh the existing condition and all the all the trees that are on on this property have been have been mapped and uh and and located on the property as you can see it's a lot of uh existing trees along the The Boat Boat streets to the to the rear and to and to the side west side uh Southwest Southside and East and North uh the trees along the the South Side we are removing uh because of the drainage basins and I'll I'll discuss that but uh in in essence uh the the Redevelopment that we're proposing we have to remove 63 trees and then based on the the township ordinance as far as the calculation for replacement that equates to 2117 threes we are we are uh we are proposing 128 uh trees new trees to replace the what's required to be uh to be replanted so we are we are short of that but uh I think uh what we we are proposing is to contribute to the tree fund for the uh for the shortage of of trees and that's uh it's allowed in this Township uh figure six shows the uh the tree what we're proposing and you can see sorry that I apologize for my back okay you can stand oh the scooch that extra easel back we might be able to stand to the side have your back to the board and let the folks see thank you so uh obviously this is our site with it's a colorized Landscaping CL thank you uh the drainage basins are here and as indicated the uh the bi the uh the green infrastructure Basin that's the for the uh for the two-year storm that's required that cleans up the flow from the parking lot is also covered with uh with vegetation as required but a DP and uh and so what we're showing is all the what we're proposing so we're proposing a total of 55 deciduous trees and a total of of 64 Evergreen and spread so you see the density of landscaping we're proposing is quite high and and uh the planner has pointed out uh in their commentary that uh uh what we should have uh we should have done is shown the existing trees that are left on site so uh when when those trees are added to it it it really makes it difficult to plant new trees because when you look when you consider the existing canopies of all the trees that are left as you can see on the on the east side of the property along allshore is Road there's a a large as well as to the West Side there's a lot of trees so the planner I think correctly asked us to revise the plan and to uh the Landscaping plan and to consider uh the existing trees so and and we are agreeing to do that uh but and and that's the main reason you could say why why don't you provide all the trees and not uh contribute to the uh to the tree fund is the fact that it gets to a point where you when you you put too many trees that won't survive so for that reason our our landscape uh architect uh took into consideration the uh the existing trees in placing the new trees but there comes a point where you cannot fit that many more trees so and Madam chair the is he testifying as a as a landscape architect now I'd like him to try to stay within civil engineer no I'm just reflecting what's on the drawing I'm not suggesting and no species and if I members of the board um I've spoken to the applicant about this and certainly not opposed to um adding more trees to the extent that's possible so as the plans are being uh revised they're more than happy to work with the township Forester the township planner the township professionals and if they believe that there are opportunities to add additional trees to come closer to that overall requirement the applicant stands ready to do that so um perfectly happy to work with the board's professionals to try to absolutely maximize the amount of additional trees bearing in mind as as John said we want to make sure whatever we add you know we have to maintain we need to provide a maintenance Bond so we're going to want to make sure that they survive and thrive and aren't just choked off by the existing or additional propos that we have so uh we're happy to try to strike that balance with the board and if we get all the way there great there's no contribution uh required as contemplated by the ordinance and if not then we'll make up the difference uh with the contribution that's required under the so I did want to make that make that clear thank you great and the obviously related to the to the Landscaping plan is the lighting plan which uh I will uh show as well you can see here this is our lighting plant I'm referring to figure figure 7even and uh figure seven provides light intensities uh and primarily one of the main Requirements For Preparing lighting plans is to make sure that we have no light spillage to our neighbors along the perimeter and you can see that it's all zeros and and so we were able to design the lighting to uh Focus all the lighting to the parking lot and uh around the buildings and we meet and so we just plan meets the township requirements as far as the lighting intensity uh typically it's an average of between 0.5 and one and we're providing the the average uh and more importantly for the for the for the board and the public we meet all the requirements for uh uh the light intensity on the on the perimeter to our neighbors more and also uh based on all the uh the existing uh trees that are located in the on the that will remain further uh further helping with uh reducing a visual impact the other thing uh also your the board's planner uh made a comment that they would like to see that uh when not in use the the lights should be turned off and I think our our uh our applicant uh uh based on the hours of operation which he will describe the lights will be turned off and only lights that are needed for safety typically 10% of all the lights will be will be uh left on in the in selected locations so in essence we're providing 21 uh light poles spread throughout the site uh two of the light two of the lights are mounted on the building type J and then two two of the type f lights are also on the building uh so we're able to meet uh all that requirements more importantly as well uh all the lights that we're proposing are dark dark sky compliant lights which are uh important for uh uh life pollution so all the lights that we're proposing are dark sky compliant uh like keep referring to to your to the board planner but he did make a comment that uh he would like us to uh to have fixtures that are shielded even though the fixtures that we selected do provide that but uh he I think is his comment was he wants uh additional shielding and we' be glad to uh to look into that and provide the revised fixtures to to the board planner for his approval that that's the as far as project signs uh we have we have one uh self-standing sign located uh for the project for that will designate the uh the house of worship it's located at the intersection of parsonage and old Shore Hills Road it's it's only 15 square foot uh and uh and our drawing do not does not show that is it's not lighted waste managementor which so it was a double negative that might have been a triple negative I try can you confirm for the board that we do not propose to uh light the uh the monument sign correct I thought that's what I said you may have but you got lost okay so the monument sign will not be lighted question before we get away from the lighting when shielded lights are put in could you indicate to us where the lighting will change on the drawing yeah it's primarily the I think the the intensity will will probably REM as far as the lighting levels will remain the same the only thing that the visually when you're looking at the at the fixture you will not see the light uh the light the light the light is pointed down but as far as the intensity it will Pro will remain the same because we have to light the parking lot are you able to describe either describe or point out on the drawings where physically on the site that shielding would be proposed well it it's it's the shielding will be on the fixture itself so we'll have to change the fixture to provide additional shei talking about building mounted fixtures all them parking lot and building correct all the all the fixtures will be revised to meet the the comment from the uh the planner so along the western side of the property we have some ones tws are those going those values will those values change yes so the last thing to to speak about is Waste Management we are providing uh a an area for the waste to be located so that the the garbage the waste truck can come and pick pick up and uh and actually it's it's shown here on the lower lot in this figure six now I'm ref I'm look to the location across the entrance from the lower from the basement uh on the lower lot on the on the south side of the parking spaces and uh and the other one I guess lastly I I I think I I skipped is the it's the figure eight which shows the uh the traffic turning and we've uh designed the the parking lot and all the all the uh all the uh all the driveways to handle not only the a waste truck you see the size as well as a fire truck so they're able to come into the site uh negotiate all the turns and be able to exit the site uh EAS easily as you can see there uh uh indicated on this drawing as far as uh signage all the signage for no parking along the U the the the drive aises in fact the the uh uh uh the fire chief uh was one of his comments the uh electric vehicle sign and the stop signs at the driveway so as far as the signage there's minimal signs and uh just for for the public I point out the the monument sign is located in this in this corner this corner being the corner the Western the southwest corner of Parson agill and shill Road that concludes my presentation there we do have reports from your professionals that we can uh go through that now if You' like yeah and you know you've uh made reference a few times to the planners report I think that's also the one that's most extensive so perhaps we start with that one yes and uh the planners report Mr Graham's report that um dat is September 12th and U I won't read all your comments I'll just paraphrase it that's okay the uh the RightWay encroachment the the planner correctly check can you just give us page number and comment letter and number so we can follow along yes uh I don't have the the I can give you the page number but the the the paragraph of the common number is item three A5 the the ones the prior was just statements that he's making that the planner made but the actual comments start with the general sight condition a so the the first that's on page five thank you okay so the first the first comment that requires a discussion is uh item three A5 and uh the planner correctly pointed out that the the the right turn coming from Parson Nill Road uh onto Shore Hills encroach encroaches on the property and uh he wants us to recognize that and uh provide uh potentially a an easement for that and and that's a County Road and those are you know improvements that the county made that encroach onto the subject property so I'm sure the county will weigh in on that and um identify what in their view if anything needs to be required but we're aware of the condition and we'll confer with the county and and take appropriate action I would if at the end of the day something needs to be done my what I'm going to urge for the county and this board to uh accept would be easement as opposed to dedication because uh dedication has implications for uh required variance relief that wouldn't otherwise be necessary but but if I understand you correctly uh you're recognizing that the County May at least require one or the other uh is it possible the county might require one versus the other I.E dedication versus EAS it's possible it's possible possible at at which point you'd have to address that's right and it might have impacts on this Bo DET termination it's possible and by the way did we skip one through four for any reason there was some somebody else I don't think there were comments there were more statements uh I confirm no overnight storage of commercial vehicles is number two different W different witness correct sorry W okay sorry the next comment it's uh item Roman numeral 3 A6 and the the planner uh uh made uh several recommendation and want wants uh have a discussion on the the the potential traffic impacts to to the site uh we are deferring that to the traffic planner who did the study uh and so I will uh skip that one uh the next one is uh also uh A6 three Roman 3 A6 uh the common was that the the lower lot as I indicated has one way one way access to it from the upper lot and then one and then out to on Old shills Road uh the planner indicated that that there's no communication uh no the connection between the lower lot and the upper lot and I think the if I may the inference there for that comment is that the uh if someone doesn't find parking at the top goes to the bottom lot and there's no parking he has to exit the site and come back around and the reason why we we designed it this in this fashion is that the lower lot is uh based on the on our applicant uh the the lower lot will be used primarily by the staff of the center of the as as well as for drop off for the school during the off hours when there's no service let's say so the lower lot is uh really not connected to the upper lot where the uh religious services are taking place but the comment is from the planner is will be addressed by the by the traffic consultant I don't uh I'm not uh shine away from that comment the plan uh the status of the submission to County planning board I was not aware that the that this a submission was made to the County planning board and we're wait the their approval and their comments uh the uh the condition of the sidewalk that I mentioned on the west side of all shills Road it's an asphalt sidewalk it only it's only present in that location it is in a in a state of disrepair and the planner recommends that that be uh uh upgraded and uh re and uh and and we are we're agreeing to replace it uh and upgrade That Sidewalk so undoubtedly the county will have construction um specific ifications corre with regard to those and we will comply with we will comply with that uh loading space uh there was a comment about what happens as far as uh loading and unloading as far as the way we read the ordinance uh there are no requirements for this use for loading space the this we spoke to our to the applicant it gets as far as deliveries gets minimal deliveries and uh similar to the to the waist truck the waist truck would literally uh stands at the in the middle of the driveway picks up the the waste so in essence any delivery such as an Amazon delivery a postal delivery the same thing will happen where uh uh so we believe that for this use a uh a dedicated loading uh space is not required is your testimony that nothing uh no deliveries would be uh via a vehicle larger than a box truck or are you not t I think we probably need to get testimony from the rabbi as to more the spe excuse me specific nature of the proposed deliveries that may well be the case I have to imagine that there would be no you know tractor trailer or excessively large vehicles but we'll confirm that through testimony correct and you're going to have a traffic engineer testifying as well correct yes correct and the um private waste Hall yes private waste falling yes yes thank you uh again that was um uh Comet uh I forgot to mention the number of the Comet just to for the record three Roman numeral 3 A8 the next one is Roman numeral 3 A9 and the planner asked for Testimony regarding compliance with standard for electric vehicle I I I believe I did that and the just talk a little bit more about uh specific to this comment it is my understanding from from the applicant that the electric vehicles are provided for the congregation and not for Public public use so I can confirm that's electric charging yes yes okay bik racks uh the planner uh comment I think correctly we had shown the the bike racks located in this in the Striped area near the the lower parking you would like that mood in case to avoid any any conflicts between the bikers and and the uh and the and the traffic and we uh agreed to comply with that you'd also recommend that the style of the rack uh be change from a wave style to a UST style rack is that something that we agree to comply with as well that's correct and that's a comment R 310 R numeral 311 confirmation of Steve slope and uh and primarily um if I if I go back to figure three and he's asking whether uh and I obviously I commented on these on the steep slope already but uh it's the comment that he indicated it's it's a it's a correct comment and I'll describe it I'm now looking at figure three so he's asking whether this to topography the new finished grades that we're providing on the down slope of the basins create a steep slope in essence these basins based on the New Jersey D recommendation for for a stable slope they have to be minimum of three horizontal to one vertical 3on one which is that what we provided and the three-on-one slope I did the math is about 33% which is a steep slope so the U so the U so yes so in essence yes but uh we stabilized the slope we provided a small retaining wall to help with that and uh we provided a sufficient uh Landscaping as you can see I'm I'm back on figure three to stabilize the slope so because the concern with steep slope is always erosion right so the important thing is to avoid erosion and we've done that through the uh through uh Landscaping the uh the down slope of the Basin But to answer the planner's comment that that in essence will uh be come uh based on the uh on the township or ordinance it's greater than 20% so it'll be a steep slope to to avoid that the the solutions would be a uh a much shallower slope on the downside of the Basin and to be able to to to provide a a a slope that meets the it's non steep slope that down slope would have to be uh one in five five horizontal to one vertical and on this property uh there's not we don't have the room to do that and the other mitigation to that is to build a retaining wall and lower the grade on the downside of the U of the uh of the uh of the Basin so we chose to uh to stabilize the slope and uh and not build a retaining wall because I think this is a better solution it's a it's a much more natural solution and uh more importantly the the concern with steep slope is the erosion and we have mitigated the erosion with the amount of landscaping we're providing uh the next comment is Roma numeral 3812 uh again utility meters and uh the planner would like to confirm that if there are any outdoor meters uh primarily a domestic water meter a a gas meter uh an electric meter that are will be located on the on the outside wall at the location where all the utilities are coming in and where is that John so do your plan show the uh proposed utility laterals from the main and yes figure three shows them as indicated from the north Northeast facade of the building where the in the basement the utility rooms will be located all the utility are coming into that area we do not show whether they The Meters at this time but because that's Ty Ally designed by the mechanical and electrical engineer uh but if they are located to on the exterior uh we are providing uh landscaping and the the planner want suggested that we uh we screen that with landscaping and uh as shown on figures on figure figure six we are providing Shrubbery on this side and we could uh put additional if you want additional shrubbery to to uh to meet those requirements and that concern if I may Madam chair are you stipulating to provide sufficient landscape screening subject to the review and approval of our planner correct yes okay is there the possibility of a hot box in this particular case uh it's my experience based on a lot of the applications I've done it the hot boox usually is decided by the the water company New Jersey American and uh their standard is a lot of projects that we have done uh it's the distance from the uh from the uh backflow preventor to the to the to the connection point this this location we're below that standard it I I'm not here to say that they may not decide on a hot boox but based on our experience during detail engineering we will be uh but we don't believe based on my experience on projects I've done with Amer New Jersey American Water whenever that distance is greater than uh than what we're providing they will require a hot box the uh and for the public a hot box is sorry it's the where all the V valving the backflow preventors The Meters uh are located above ground uh the underground pipes come come above ground they're covered with with a with a hot box and a hot box is because it has to be heated for the winter time that am my correct that your expectation is that it would be uh that any backf flow preventor and this is outside the realm of my expectation but would would be internal yes in the mechanical room but you can't guarantee that that's ultimately up to the Jersey American Water corre right but at this point we we will be glad to stipulate the additional Landscaping to to avoid that visual impact of the of the meters the hot box would also have to be a buffered with Landscaping if they they required it I would imagine perhaps it could be softened but I I would imagine it couldn't be screen but what's the size of an average Hot Box an average HotBox it all really you no it depends on the size of the of the of the pipe coming for the based on the design of the sprinkler system but typically it it'll be about four feet high 3 feet wide by up to 68 feet in length so it's it's it's visual it's not a small box um I just wanted to clarify because you stipulated to meeting the the plannner uh Landscaping preference are you also working with yeah the town Forester thank you yes correct thank you yeah and the Forester provided comments and we were going to stipulate that I just want to make sure thank you uh yeah the 813 the we are we're confirming that the as indicated the small brick wall and the slate patio that was that was uh located on the uh Southwest side of the site near the uh the storm water feature that Daylights will be demolished uh the next comment has to do with signage and Architectural comments and that'll be addressed by the U the uh the architect uh item C now we're in item C which is lighting and Landscaping comments uh have address and I think the L the Roman 3 C1 we've addressed as far as the existing trees and we are stipulating that we will uh take into consideration the the the remaining trees on the site uh Roman numeral 3 C2 uh the we talked about that as well that's the full cut off lighting that he's uh requesting and we're agreeing with that uh Roman num 3 C3 the board uh plan recommends lighting be limited to security lighting and we spoke about that and that only what's needed for security and uh we will'll be glad to rev when we revise the plans to show which of the lights will remain on but typically it's been my experience that about 10% of the lights will will remain lit during uh for security reasons are those predominantly centered closer to the building as opposed to the perimeter of the property absolutely yes and the C4 is regarding confirmation that the the fixtures are dark sky compliant and now we're at section e which is the recommendation uh from the planner for approval so it's a three uh item Roman numeral 3 E1 uh applicant shall provide copies of the approval certification from the county and absolutely we agreed to that uh there was a comment which is an architectural comment regarding access to the roof the architect will speak to that and uh but uh I I don't see uh why we would not agree to that uh the uh item E3 which is uh on and off size circulation improvements including both vehicle and pedestrian Improvement shall be implemented to the satisfaction of the board Professionals in the essis county Township and uh the traffic and softer will speak to that but uh I would also uh uh speak contemplate uh the next one uh is E4 Revis the lighting plan to mitigate off side impacts and uh we believe that our plan uh is complying with the ordinance uh and but we have agreed to provide the additional uh screen uh the different uh fixtures that the planner uh recommends the next one I I think U the exus County planning board RightWay dedication the attorneys spoke about that and we're now at the E6 subject approve the S County planning board the sidewalk along shorts drive we spoke about that shall be improved we agree with that and and and uh the county standards will will uh will will uh will be used and then obviously prior to certificate of occupancy applican shall submit proof of payment of all the required replacement uh that is the all the planners comments the next D1 and D2 the page report if you go back there procedural and Technical comments preconstruction meeting in s Conservation District I take the applicate stability to those correct correct thank you the next comments from the Fire Marshall report and uh there are uh five four comments and we we agree to uh to provide uh to meet all those requirements I can go through each one if the board chooses to but uh for example he's asking for nox box which we it's typical we we'll provide that uh the to verify that the with the tax department the the building numbers absolutely that's U commment number four uh the knoxbox uh KN knoxbox is common number three and he's they the fire requested that PDF copies of the drawings be provided to them for their database absolutely provide that just we're talking about the uh The Memo from battalion chief Thomas bazano dated September 13 20 2024 correct and uh um I just realized I'm going backwards but comment number one is that uh shall be provided with access to all the uh the buildings and U we agreed that's obviously standard and we agreed to that five the fire lane that reflects your testimony yes oh that's right number five is the fire lane and uh he uh he's asked that we meet all that requirement he's make sure that the radiuses on any of the curves are 25 feet and the study drawings that we provided we meet we meet those all those requir that's a figure eight on the plan sheet is that right correct and the Forester comments is um State Miss State Stacy FS dated uh September 13th and uh again uh uh good comments and uh we stipulate that we're going to greet and revise the Landscaping to to address those comments to to the to the to the professional satisfaction which just include switching out some um species selections that she's recommended providing a two-year maintenance guarantee to ensure that what we plant you know survives and thrives providing gear protection um all in ordance with that we stipulate to comply with all those yes yes and I think that about covers it doesn't it John yes and I'll entertain questions thanks first we'll begin with questions from the board go over again the minimum lot the minimum space required and what is what is proposed say again sorry can you just go over again the minimum parking spaces that are required and what's yes okay the uh the the calculation is based on u space is based on Square for every 1,000 square feet so uh we you divide the entire U square footage which is in this case is was based on the architectural uh was calculated uh at 81 21,27 square feet divide that by a th000 so you get 21 units Time 5 you get 105.1 to be exact so that's the required parking we are striping on the from the parking lot physical actual spaces 95 and we get and uh do to the uh the electric vehicle law in New Jersey it trumps uh the law specifically trumps all the zoning ordinances and you are you are uh not uh you are allowed to take a bonus up to 10% of the electric uh of the required electric vehicles so we so we provided we're taking a 10 10 parking space bonus so 95 plus 10 we're getting to to 105 and I I should point out that allthough what John said is correct about preemption and trumping local ordinances Milburn kind of always as typically does being on top of these things and keeping its ordinance current has actually amended its ordinance to incorporate and specifically set forth those same State's uh requirements and standards with regard to EV uh ready spaces and vehicles this that question from the board I have one I just want clarification because make sure that um clarification you have said multiple times you meet the requirements meet the requirements of the commercial building or house of worship we've gone back and forth from paring spaces use so if you can just clarify correct right as in as our attorney indicated there are there there are uh an accessory use standards that we have to we must meet I'm sorry conditional conditional use pardon that we must meet and then there are other ordinance requirements uh design standards that also have to be met and we meet those as well thank you question I just wanted to let you know I know for a fact I did hear from police um who did not have a chance to prepare their report for tonight but they will have a report so there may be questions May things on their report when reort I'm just going to repeat that to amplify it um that the police have not yet submitted a report at at the time at which they will which will be hopefully soon yes soon um there may be additional questions that are raised quite likely that those issues will probably fall within the baileywick of the traffic engineer but certainly John will be available to the extent that they don't I suspect they probably same with the engineer same with the engineer okay so we don't have police or engineer reports if I may duve tell off that Madam please chair given that we're hearing the testimony of the civil engineer for the applicant would it be reasonable to assume that when an engineering report is provided by our independent engineer on behalf of the board will'll be seeing Mr frony again yes thank you anybody else have questions for Mr this time you have actually more importantly our board please we just have you speaking to Sure Mr fron if You' share your microphone oh sorry that's okay um first I just want to thank Mr frony for his detailed review of uh my review letter thank you uh for taking the time to walk through that um for the benefit of the board and the public here um I did have a few follow-up questions that I just wanted to touch on um first um and this is kind of related in tanm to the the report from the Fire official um my one of one of our comments was a suggestion to replace the grass pave emergency access treatment area um with asphalt to provide for two-way circulation uh obviously that's a circulation comment however the fire department the Fire official report um indicated that that area will need to be striped and serve as a fire lane I just wanted to confirm if grass pave can serve as a fire lane is that a suitable surface to provide for fire ACC it's it's designed to handle a the fire Tru as far as the the load requirements and uh we we don't object to making that also asphalt and the main reason why we uh we we made that strip a non- asphalt is because as indicated on um on the uh zoning requirement we're very close to the uh impervious coverage the lock coverage and so we would have to uh mitigate that by sort of taking that take finding uh impervious areas on the site to to reduce so that we could uh make that an asphalt um next question is um you know I know that the architecture plans indicate uh you know an area for rooftop mechanical equipment with the screening Associated we hear from the architect shortly I'm sure at some point U I wanted to just confirm is any other ground mounted mechanical to service the building proposed for the site or uh will it do do you happen to know whether a Transformer will be required by the by the electric utility or other things just have those been contemplated good good comment as far as uh the requirements uh for this project uh uh no Transformer was was indicated uh requested uh by our client so we have not shown any other ground equipment uh just two more one um I believe I was just taking some notes during your testimony I just wanted to confirm um I know we've talked a lot about the sidewalk along Old Short Hills Road I just wanted to confirm that is um on your property or is that located within the right of way just to clarify testimony it's in the right away sorry it's in the right away um and last question um the height of the pole mounted fixtures you know I appreciate the the willingness of the applicant to to do full cut off fixtures to limit like glare um the height of the proposed fixtures uh as indicated on the light detail sheet the poll says that it will be a maximum of 12 feet of height just for the poll is there a concrete base that will be proposed that you know to which that pole will be fixed and then the height of the fixture itself you know what is the maximum height and and what is the lowest possible height that we can have for these uh pole mounted fixtures good question there will be a concrete uh uh sonat tube foundation for the pole obviously typically we we like to raise the the the top of concrete about a foot off the ground so that uh snow plows and things like that they're not so the and and we specified I think in our drawing 11 to 12 feet in height and that's to account for that uh so 12 feet is the maximum height of the pole and that's what we're proposing overall height including the foundation that you just described yes and the fixture yes to the top of fixture okay and is that the lowest possible height that provided within thisa as far as to meet the uh the requirement lighting standards lowering it we we would have to increase the number of poles so it's a it's a balance but so if 12 feet is is the board for some reason does not like the 12 feet uh we we could agree to lower it but we may have to add fixures thank you thank you m just a couple of quick ones the the uh with respect to figure six and the U refu enclosure can you explain in detail what that's made of the heights the enclosure Etc how that operates doors latches the like uh so the adjacent members of the public in particular might have an interest and and describe its location on the site if you would again uh the sorry for the public for my back the uh the enclosure is is uh proposed for the lower lot on the on the south side of the of the parking aisle uh opposite the the uh entrance and exit to the lower level so that the waist from the building will be brought to the enclosure as you see there and the enclosure is it's detailed on on sheet f f figure 11 which indicates that it's a it's a board on board uh enclosure uh as as far as the height I believe let me confirm it's uh uh six feet high and uh and the reason why we select six feet because the typical a waste container is about that height so we want to hide the container uh there's if it uh uh the professionals uh and the board want want it higher or a different material uh more in keeping with the architectural style of the building and that could be done and the architect can speak can is that is that like a U-shaped enclosure or does it have a gate is it it it has a three sides board on board and that and the front it has a double gate as you can see here yes so the we we proposed a board on board uh wooden uh enclosure uh but the material uh we're we're open to suggestions and if I may M the figure8 you referred to access I know there's a traffic engineer forthcoming apparently but the uh since you addressed it um for emergency vehicle access in particular fire trucks did you utilize the uh actual dimensions of the ladder truck that uh utilized by this Township yeah we typically do that and and the the the commentary from the from the fire department did did not uh specifically uh comment that the proposed fire truck was not the the correct size or the undersiz and not meeting what they would require but did you get the dimensions from the fire department yes my our designer did I did not do that personally but I can assure that my designers have done that and it's typical what we do we always since it's you'll likely have to come back to address any comments in the engineers report in the interim can you just check with your staff confirm that that was done yes thank nothing further matter CH just a clarification so um the drop off was mentioned for the children is right across from the garbage collection can you uh are you able to I said yes I'm sorry I just nodded my head but but are you able to Dimension off your plans like what's the separation distance that we're talking about from I think the question is you know how you you give us some sense of the relative location of where the children would be entering and leaving the building and the proposed location the trash but also clarification you said that it was a private disposal company but yet there any loading zone or how they will dispose of the garbage or take the garbage away so just some clarification on that please so to uh I I did not hear the last part of the question but as far as the what the way we envisioned the the drop off will be done the the entrance to the lower level where the classrooms are is is located here you see on the on the south side of the of the of the building and uh so the cars will be coming here dropping off and entering the waste uh enclosure is also located in the opposite the the entrance and exit to the lower levels uh so the the again uh these spaces when the are dedicated for drop offs so they can the the parents can can park the car uh and escort the child if it's uh depending on the age into the building so that's the reason why that we provided additional handicap parking on the bottom handicap on the top to provide that uh enclosure and are you able to just scale off an approximation of that that linear distance that you're talking about the distance between the the pick up and drop up area and the footprint of the garbage enclosure yeah the the lane the traffic lane is 24 feet so from the assuming there's a car parked in this space car parked so there's 24 feet from the end of the parking spaces to the front of the enclosure 24 feet thank you the followup question was just on if there's not a loading space uh for refu removal how does that operation take place is that question I mean I'm assuming that uh with the size of the building the the waste would be probably in containers that the vehicle would pick up and jump in correct how way it's faced now can you just explain that right the the the the waste uh uh containers are are shown roughly we sized this the enclosure for three containers roughly two to three yard containers as far as the size so those are always on Wheels and they could the the the garbage truck assuming it's it's uh it's a private private cing so they in this in this configuration they they would have to use a rear loader uh not a front loader because uh for a front loader the the container would have to be brought to the front of the truck and then they it gets picked up by the Hydraulics so a rear loader uh the container will be brought to the truck TR and then it gets it hooks onto the rear of the truck and and loads the truck thank you any other questions just following up on the um trash and recycling enclosure um was there any consideration to perhaps rotate it um so it fits more neatly within that space and protect it by ballards I mean you're proposing a a wood enclosure uh adjacent to two vehicular parking spaces you know a car maneuvering in and out May crash into that wood or bump into that wood fence and break it so is did you consider options or is there a strategy to perhaps rotate things to protected or baller installations to protect the trash closure we uh we chose this configuration to so that the the containers will fit in line turning it uh the containers would have to be put put in series and so to be able to access the let's say a deeper container would be a little bit problematic but there's no reason why it can't be turned on but we feel that this configuration is much more operationally uh uh better just asking for the longevity of the we can add Ballers absolutely correct can you add ballards without uh eliminating any parking spaces correct yes and as also shown if I may just to continue is that we only using as far as this only the front part so there's no reason why this this cannot be made deeper when you say this can you be more sorry the the enclosure is only shown to be uh does not occupy the entire space that's available to the rear so we could make that deeper and that's a decision that let's say operationally can be made if the if the uh applicant finds that the need they need more uh storage of waste uh for that enclosure but uh it could be made deeper that would create more impervious coverage small amount but I think we we okay we can take care of okay thanks to turn to questions to the public unless anybody has any further question okay U for members of the public who have questions for U Mr fanti based on his testimony um we'll invite you to just kind of come line on the center aisle if you have a questions um we will have comment later but this is just for specific questions um if you could just provide your name and address and what you don't to to ask questions uh I'm Mark Lewis this is baile LS my lovely wife uh last name uh LW uh we live at 172 Old Short Hills Road directly across from this development so I don't think can imagine anybody that has more standing right now uh to be interested in hearing the the details here I can ask questions right now and I assume that I can make some more statements absolutely later so Mr fronte my first question would be when were you first engaged and by whom we were engaged by the applicant roughly this over a year and a a year and a half now okay and I say that that with reason because obviously I just found out uh that this was taking place and impacting our our our property okay members of the public just the person who has the mic can speak thank you Mr Lewis as you know please questions of the witness only the comments will come under Ro later okay uh Mr fronte have you ever engaged in a similar development to this okay may I clarify similar developments a house house of worship in a residential neighborhood yes when a year and a half two years any other projects other than that one that's the primary one as far as a house of worship of this this size we've done other projects similar nature such as schools and would you consider a school analogous to a house of worship as far as the civil engineering perspective but the what's required to do a site plan for a house of worship as and a school and others that the engineering doesn't change much it's all about parking it's all about drainage it's all about lighting it's all about Landscaping so the house of worship is more of an architectural element in the building but from a site planning perspective I don't it's my it's my professional opinion that that the use doesn't change uh materially the S plan features the engineering and can you tell me more about the project that you did work on that was a house of worship uh was I'm trying to remember the time the time it was involved was I thinki can you can you share apologies thank I'll be glad to uh to provide the actual uh addresses and details of the type of projects of of similar nature uh just top of my head I think it was North planfield if you tell me the name of this of the uh I can't uh remember I'm sorry no question you and pass the mic back sorry and and were you involved in giving an opinion uh in that particular circumstances of whether a house of worship should be allowed uh in what has always been historically a residential neighborhood I do not provide those type of opinions it's not my expertise uh so the answer is no okay and maybe I misheard you so what's your understanding of what what an R3 uh designation is yeah that that I can answer it's a residential Zone uh again as indicated uh uh we would be in a a conditional use and and so and for me and I'm sure a lot of people I I don't know what that actually means a conditional use my broader question as I'm sitting here listening to all the details what it almost seems to assume we're moving forward right now is what what's your understanding of why the R3 designation here allows for a house of worship to move in at this juncture if I may we're going to have a separate uh witness Mr uh Warner to land use planning consultant y will be coming and whose specialty and testimony will be heed exactly towards that type of question um whether or not in his opinion it qualifies as conditional use it meets the standards the nature of a conditional use the nature of an R3 Zone um we'll be providing detailed testimony so things that will'll be available to answer your questions on there okay uh are you able to give more clarification I don't think I followed when you talked about County and the potential easement parentage yes as uh indicated at some point in time the the county chose to uh increase the the curvature of the of the of the roadway and you can see on the north on the North uh northeast corner uh this our property line so they've encroached inside our property with the with the curb so whenever you're making this turn for a parsonage jail onto Short Hills when you drive along that curb you're actually driving on the on the prop on my on the applicant's property so that's the encroachment that we speaking of it's It's primarily only a small triangle roughly based on the scale uh it's uh looks to be about 20 to 30 feet uh as if you use a the analogy of a triangle the two bases are 20 on the sh Hill Side 30 on the plus or minus on parsonages so it's not a large encroachment and so what we're discussing is that the county and the the and the planner pointed out that there may have to be a dedication to legalize that encroachment specifically on some of the things you addressed the trees uh understood a lot of numbers specifics Etc obviously from our standpoint as a property owner directly across the street I guess my question is is it your understanding that the trees are going to completely protect the establishment there and give absolute privacy so that we're not looking in to that uh establishment good question and I'll go back to the figure two sure it might be helpful for him to answer that question yeah I know I think you said 172 could you indicate on the plan just where your where your home is literally if you take par Road we're right there on this side on the other side of Hills Road oh on this side okay yeah as you see the northeast corner of the intersection there this property y okay you can see that uh from the aerial which it's it's pretty consistent with what's there now there's a lot of trees and uh and uh our our our drawing are survey drawing which is figure two which is based on an actual survey all the trees that are shown on the aerial we're not touching those trees at all so you see all the and it's shown on the drawing but there's an X through the tree that's remove being removed and a lot of the trees being removed are along the bottom part of the site on the uh on the uh on the Southeast side uh sort of opposite Parker and along the bottom where the the drainage basin but along parsonage Hill the top of parsonage hill along the old sh Hills Road uh all the all the trees are being saved except two trees where the utilities are coming in only two and then obviously from the Landscaping PL on figure figure six we are adding additional trees along well Three Trees uh because there's so many existing trees that we could not fit additional trees there so you will be I think if I may protected because we're we're not cutting any of those trees what about no just just want just this person applicant we can have more questions what about at night with the lights I heard a lot of specifics I don't fully understanding a lot of the specifics around that but what will we see as as a neighbor at night when it's Friday night it's full-blown activity what will we all right so in it good question again your your properties in this corner right as you can see that the the the only we only providing two uh really one building mounted fixture located in this in this this general area no other lights along the front yard of the of of this property and and that's reflected by the the light the the lighting uh study that you see that you see all lot of zeros so the ically there's no spillage and the the the the last 0.5 uh 0.1 actually Contour is really here so there is a lot of distance to uh to any uh light uh uh uh production if we will from the from this from this fixture uh impacting your your uh your property what about the uh parking field fixtures John can and with the benefit of the scale on the on the plan are you able to give a rough indication of the distance that you're talking about to the to the lot to the parking lot the closest parking lot fixture yeah the closest parking lot fixure bu there's one right here to to light the driveway again it's to the on the North side thank you about uh 20 25 feet in from Parson and chill is the first light fixture on on the west side of the driveway no other fixtures opposed in this direction so as you come further into the site then obviously you'll start seeing light light fixtures in the uh for the parking lot and then uh the front the front of the and then the next light fixture is located here which is roughly uh 90 feet from parsonage jaill and probably over over 200 feet check the scale yeah about over well over 200 feet from old Shore Hills Road so two fixtures on the driveway and then the rest are on the parking lots and the and on the front part of the building away from and John those rear ones um you testified that the maximum height of those including the base would be 12 feet presumably the building is is high is taller the building itself would block from this gentleman's view parking lighting correct last last question on the signage uh uh what was tell me a little bit about the circumstances the discussion the motive for putting up a a sign there obviously that would be well yeah the sign is located on at the inter close to the intersection in this in this corner North uh the northeast corner uh a small 15 square foot sign uh 15 foot doesn't sound what's that sorry please let him answer the question what was it you no so want to hear about the circumstance how you chose the sign what well the sign was uh as the the applicant asked for a sign to to designate the the uh the house of worship the uh we did not detail the sign I think the architect is providing the details of the sign we're showing it though in the in the location next question I promas have you in some of your other works work in the school houses other houses of worship uh what's been your experience about the impact uh given what I described you where we're located on property value again that's not my expertise property values sorry other questions from the public for this witness great again just state your name my name is Jeffrey Feld live in Alexander Lane Short Hills I just want to clarify about earlier we heard about 35% if I could just ask members about I just I can't hear it and I think you said it was 34.7 eight that for impervious use that if we got over 35% you wouldn't need a variance is that correct I think a little bit of maybe half an hour ago you were talking about a fire lane and I was wondering whether that fire lane which was was not going to be paved was that included in your impervious number that the 34 78% was not all right so if it was paved would that take you over the 35% and you would need a variance not necessarily we would we would uh take away from other other areas the site to to stay under it we did not we want to keep this application as clean with no VAR but I'm I'm just saying if you kept everything in place and you had to pave for the fire department that fire lane would that take you over the 35% number mathematically yes but not thank you next question hello hi I'm Christine best can you hear okay I'm I'm sorry I I I was going to make a statement but I have I do have a lot of questions I'm going to try to um keep it focused on your area Christine best and I live in milg Township um one of the questions that I wanted to ask you before you started in and engaged on this project have you gone back to look at the land use from the 1899 tract the William Hill tract as well as the AF Rickers tract that was part of this property before it was all subdivided and looked at the land use restrictions or were Covenant inide of the um deed restrictions um because I believe that the people that sold the house at 165 ult Hills Road the Welches um were pursuing litigation in regards to land use restrictions on one Jefferson and I believe they're part of the 44 houses originally that were contained within land use restrictions so have those land use restrictions been lifted out of perpetuity through a document because from the Deeds that I could find it appears that it hasn't and so I'm just I'm trying to understand that has that been done before you've proceeded to do these Madam chair if I may to assist the process counselor to the extent there might have been some testimony provided in the context of that question do you have any objection to me swearing in M best uh to uh so that uh that question could be answered to the extent it can't be answered by this witness well I I two things uh since procedurally just supposed to be limited to questions on the direct testimony I don't know that there's a need uh to swear her in there really shouldn't be any testifying at this stage and clearly uh he did not testify as to that I'd like for you to just confirm that whether or not you looked at it and if the answer is you didn't I would ask that this line not be pursued any further so with no I understand that and this is not the time for public comment but in the context of questions sometimes facts are stated so in order for the question to be properly the public again in case anybody didn't hear me at the outset this is a quasi judicial proceeding the same Civility and decorum that's expected of everyone as if this were a court of law because it's close enough uh and we should all be civil and respectful wherever we are in my opinion I apologize that's not a legal opinion it's a personal they they the uh um so you're objecting to me swearing her in for purposes of asking this question yeah yes the the uh why don't you uh nevertheless you asked the question the the record will reflect that you asked the question and the witness is obligated to answer okay the answer is just simple we did not uh consider that we we're not aware of okay thank thank you very much for your answer um I also wanted to I wanted to go um and ask you um you're removing 63 mature trees and I know that the township has very minimal requirements for tree Replacements even though they like you're going to be replacing like you said I think 128 trees they're usually 2inch caliber trees which provide very little coverage and very very little um you know sort of blockage for people like when they were talking about their lighting issues and um you know is what percent of total of the trees are you removing off the property that are mature trees I'd really like to understand that because that will affect people's sight of the building yeah and um so excuse me if I understand your question you wanted to know the the actual sizes of the trees that we're cutting are they generally mature trees yes I mean that's in fact uh we have provided a a table with a with detailed uh sizes of trees and and you can see from the table of figure two bottom left and and I can go through it they're all mature so they're all above 10 10 in dbh and how can I ask you I can talk I think I can talk loud enough maybe not um what so but what percent to like how many mature trees could you estimate I know that's a tough thing to do are there currently on the property think if uh we we have them all numbered but I the table will only reflects the existing tree surveys you can see here it's and the ones that we're uh removing uh so we we have not documented all the trees on the site but which we can for the next meeting I think surveyor has sorry I'm so sorry I think people can hear me but so uh what I said was U we had the drawings don't reflect all the trees as far as sizes that exist on the site but we can they're all numbered so uh I I think we had our surveyor has that information we'll be glad to provide it um I um wanted to also I wanted to ask you about lighting trespass because you're you're talking in very um you know sort of basic terms about light coverage and you know sort of you covering but do you can you like State about what that the total amount of lumens there would be with the lightings you know all the lighting that's on like during for example let's say you're having a wedding or you know you're having an event um during that time and I'm assuming it will be LED lighting um but and and also will you have your light going off on I mean going off on timers including interior lights which also create light trespass um because I think that's something I just people really should know about and will it be down to a residential blow like existing properties in are yeah that's a it's a great question uh as far as the during events like weddings and so forth the lighting they're proposing that's the lighting we're proposing there'll be no additional lights uh you thinking of a temporary event lights that we brought on the property no no I'm just thinking of like overall lumens because I'll give you an example you could have a house okay they could have four you know industrial grade spotlights that um you know have huge amount of light coverage and spillage and so the the light count doesn't really matter it's the level of the light right correct and and the the study that we do that it's reflected on our figure uh our figure seven it's a it's a computerized analysis of the it take they take the fixtures as far as the the amount of light that it produces the height and it and it projects it at grade and so it's a very accurate depiction of what the the light intensity that you're proposing and the Township as as a as standards that we have to meet as far as the average the average light overall and we and based and that's how this was designed to meet all the township requirements and further we're showing the fact that the the based on the on the Contours and the light intensity at the N at at the uh perimeter which reflects the the what the township uh requires that we don't encroach at the perimeter with the light intensities and we meet that so as far as the total light if you will it's not going to be any greater than this so if you have light TR trespass you know in violation of the Township Code because it's trespass means it shines in somebody's window versus them having a dark sky night we will comply then right if I mean just to clarify for everyone the the foot candles that the lights produce is the is the measure that we're we're held to uh so the question is can a light be seen across the street can you know is it turn on a light the light can be seen But the intensity the foot candles are are low so it's for example being out look at and from the top of the hill and find seeing a house three miles away that has a light you'll see it but the impact on as far as light intensity is not there and that's why we I was saying the the Landscaping in the trees and all that vegetation helps to Shield that uh that visual you can just cut me off when you want because I don't want to be I don't want to trip you um in terms of impervious coverage I have a lot of concern about impervious coverage being somebody who had to deal with that myself when I had a steep slope built next to my house um you know people say oh the grades there and um you know it's really important trees take up a lot of water so when you're pulling out a lot of mature trees in addition to putting in 20 2,000t space and 100 parking lots you know for the impervious coverage it's a lot and then also changing the slope putting in a retention Basin and I'm very unclear as to how that water is released if it's diffused out into the ground system and or partially thrown into the storm system um I think that's really important for people to understand I mean I believe the property below them is one Jefferson correct that's not being developed that's going to be still separate or is that being what oh okay so I just kind of wanted to understand that um as it relates to neighboring properties yes and so again I'm again I'm going to go back to the existing site figure two right so these again for the public these Contours is is a depiction of how this the grades on the site exist right so it's got uh they're one foot Contours so so so basically if you see here it's U sorry it's too 319 is the actual elevation above sea level the next Contour a foot away is 318 so that tells us Engineers that sorry that if uh water was to fall on this on this spot the water would flow in this direction so on this side based on the way the Contours are you can see High Point low Point all the water right now currently is flowing in this direction unimpeded South directly sou directly south unimpeded okay some of it is going in this direction towards the the drainage uh uh ditch uh South Southwest Corner uh so the the site plan captures all all that water and the and the you see here just talking about the the front yard on the east side the the water uh that is is not uh it's it's not changing because we're not providing any any uh regrading We've kept that as natural as possible all the trees as as indicated before are left and so the grading here doesn't change but all the area in the back uh north of the drainage uh basins is all being captured the roof drains the parking lot the uh the driveway it's all being captured and no longer flows off site okay it's captured by the basins contained and then it's slowly released to the outlet control structure that's here and that overflow ties into the existing existing catch Basin that's located on oldur is Road so so it's so from a drainage perspective it's a tremendous Improvement in the amount of water that is not allowed to go off site can I ask you how many um retainage retainage drains do you or drywells do you have and are you diffusing them like it seems like you're concentrating everything into the Basin so it's like everything's blowing into that and then so it does it does concentrate it for the People South and I'm just trying to understand well when you say conc John just for a sec sorry I want you go ahead and answer the question but I just I just want to let you know and the other folks in the room you're not going to have to rely solely on the applicant's engineer with respect to these issues you have a particular concern about stor water to run off you don't have to rely solely on what he has to say we don't have the benefit of it this evening but the board's independent engineering consultant has all of our submissions our storm water management plan our storm water maintenance report our site plans that John's been testifying to and she will provide her own independent analysis and either agree or disagree uh and have that that the board and all the members of the public will have the benefit so we're going to have a separate meeting so I don't need to ask that I just want you to know ask questions that Jer because I just want you to be aware okay at the end of the proceedings you're not going to have to rely solely on what he has to say the board will have its own engineering report that among other things will dealt deeply into her part her professional opinion as to storm water then I can skip that right that makes sense well that's that that that's up to you I think I think saying you can ask whatever questions you want okay I I'm I'm good I I think I think I can um so I I wanted to ask I think something that would be really help gonna ask a question oh sorry okay I think something that would be really helpful is having 3D modeling and renderings top- down aerial and also you know all side views because I think it's really important most people that are I mean even a very very well- trained architect or designer cannot look at plans like that and visualize what this is going look like in reality those are just Flatline drawings and putting green on things is not going to give somebody a sense of what the visual streetcape is going to look like and I think that would be something that would be really beneficial if you could do that it's a it's a it's a question if you could do that our architect is going to show elevation colorized elevations from various perspectives all around the site as to what it'll actually I think that would be really helpful okay um and um are you going to put a light are you g to put a light on um at parsonage is are you considering the need for an additional traffic light to deal with the in again that our traffic consultant who actually study the the traffic flows in the area the intensity of the of the use it will address that and the planner uh the board planner made the similar comments as well may I ask also what's your intention is of the max occupancy for this facility I know that you mentioned 105 parking places in total but I just wanted to understand will there be people or congregants that will be actually walking to the chai Center and that would increase you know the amount of people and the the noise levels again uh our applicant uh who actually operates will can speak to that as far as number of uh uh worshippers that would uh be on on any given uh uh let's say holiday days and the most used we spoke as a team about the uh trying to get a handle on the uh the the foot traffic and people that would would walk to the uh to the house of worship and uh again uh the applicant can speak to that more directly uh but the answer was yes there is that expectation I'm I'm gonna exit I have lots more questions but I'm sure other people will ask them and thank you so much for your time I really appreciate it other questions from the public Mr fr if you could return the mic I'm not your name yes Jessica Margolis m r g Lis I live at two South Beach craftt on the corner of old short Hills Road to follow up on um her question um if the parking lot is full I belong to a congregation where the parking lot is always full and overflow parking is needed so my question is if the parking lot is full with cars and you have more you know you don't expect three people driving per car and it's maybe one person per car there's extra cars where is there overflow parking to to for the place of worship like is it in the grass is it on streets surrounding the area if you could speak to that yeah the good question and uh obviously uh our design is based on what the the township requires uh but the same token uh the the applicant who is actually will operate the the house of worship we that was discussed and um he uh it's just basic all these years of experience the he do we don't expect the Overflow there may be I can't answer that but our it is our I can tell you from an engineer perspective parking on the grass will not be allowed will not be allowed so extra overflow will have to park on the other adjoining streets okay okay we don't propose that and certainly if it's signed no parking and certainly will comply with the law okay if there's no sign okay and then um as I mentioned I belong to a temple as well and is there an area for security on the grounds to protect the um place of worship security security like either maybe like a security vehicle or a security booth given what's going on in our in our larger environments that was notos okay thank you thanks hi uh I'm Andrew cap I'm here with my wife Elizabeth cap K PP one more time your name please Andrew cap K A P P I live at 18 Madison Terrace which is Lot 12 I share a very long um property line here just to the left to the West yep that's me so uh I mean just following up on a couple of questions one uh question that wasn't asked before but uh has there been any contemplation to replacing uh the fence that exists between it's it's actually it's a wooden fence it's a wooden fence it's quite old um and it's pretty low I think it's a six foot fence on that side of the property for us it's actually pretty low we we are not proposing to replace that fence but we can speak to our op and we can consider that okay and then um I mean in terms of the storm water and I I understand and so I won't dwell on it but I'm just wondering if in the analysis you were considering there is quite a bit of uh storm water that comes from parsonage Hill through our properties and between my property and 165 um down in between those properties and sort of coalesces into that Basin in the southwest corner and so I'm just I know you're you're improving the the drainage for the storm water that collect on the property I'm just wondering if you're uh enhancing or in any way redirecting the storm water that comes down between those two properties will it end up in that Basin or does it just continue to Coal Us in that yeah Corner the way storm management is designed what you have to do not focus only on the property in question you have to analyze the entire drainage area so you have to analyze what contribution from all site that that currently flows and drains under the property so that's part of the the analysis that's done so we do not only consider the property boundaries per se so the analys was was done so one of the things we have to do is look at the drainage area to see as you indicated that there are any contribution from uh Parson jail road that end up on the property that has to be considered and that also if there is be okay yeah that's really helpful because because that that easement that you see is under my property the pipeline is really insufficient so there's quite a bit of excess water and that gets blocked up in these massive storms we've been having last couple again public it's underground easement so the the conveyance is underground and it Daylights insection and continues so you you indicated the West Side the Western property line yes it's along the western property line okay um and then yeah is it Poss I know this question's been asked but is it possible first of all if you're considering a elevation like was suggested uh by by the prior uh questioner um to show from my side um just what a what an elevation would look like and particularly I'm concerned about you know again just for everyone this is your house right along the west west side yeah so you would like to see what our architect will have that thank you um and then if there's more detail on the trees that are being T it's is quite difficult to figure out how many of the trees that we're being are being taken out obviously we're quite close to the parking lot there the good news is that all the trees here you can't St here on the West Side all the trees on the west side are staying and then they're being augmented is that where is that where you're indicating yeah again that and I know we're dealing so I I'll just segue because I I would like some additional uh information about the trees but we can sort that out um just in the matter of time I know we're dealing with setback requirements and you are complying you know per the record that you talked about earlier there's a 30 some foot difference between the end edge of the parking lot and my property but I noticed there's quite a bit of excess space along that corner of old short Hills and and so I know we have to comply on both sides but has there been any is there any you know was there ever any consideration given to not having that prop parking lot so close to my property best way best way I can answer that as I indicated when you factor in the front yard set back which is roughly puts you here okay so we cannot have any buildings located in that front then again the front yard of the parment literally that intersection is this is right here this corner yeah so so the problem is with the zoning requir itms where we can put right and this is the uh for this site is the really the only place that that could be done we I'm sure nobody's going to want to see parking in the front yard and it's in a lot of towns restrict from your par nobody wants to see it outside their window um so uh one last question so I I can't really read it because I'm an old man but uh the the the the light impact over to my property line does that computer model uh in in include the impact of the Landscaping it typically does not it would provide better results because it would be provide shielding the only problem with that is a lot of the trees are deciduous so you you can't take credit for doing that during the winter win so that's why this this provides a uh from our perspective a more conservative analysis because of that so we we're trying not to sort of gain the the intensity by trying to add additional factors that would Shield it so this is that's a raw as if there was no land escaping no offence no that's helpful appreciate it thank you Jean Pastak thank you um I have a couple questions just further sorry I didn't hear your address Jean Pastak n no your address oh my address 342 Hobart Avenue thank you thank you um have just going further on the parking um would was there any consider of putting parking underground or in a less imposing way the answer is not okay and that is because of cost we well it I don't think we had a discussion with our client for underground parking okay because we were able to uh to to design the park the the site plan to accommodate the parking requirments on the surface without considering any alternative okay um would do you consider or have did you consider uh something like pavers that would allow grass to come through to make it look more natural the parking area we did not uh but we have done projects where we use permeable pavers to to help with the uh prvious calculation uh I think Milburn and I could ask the engineer does not give you credit for perable payers we've done uh porous pavement porous asphalt uh which is a lot of time is used to augment the storm water management where we having the site doesn't cannot accommodate a green infrastructure solution a lot of DP allows us to use porest pavement as another uh means to reduce green for green infrastructure John just as a followup does Milbourne Township have design standards thank you design standards with regard to the construction of off- street parking areas and if so does it contemplate grass pavers or does it require base course and surface course asphalt it does I mean we have not and I we could uh confirm that with the engineering for the next meeting but based on our review of the the ordinances and so forth we did not see that um has there been any discussion or do you anticipate uh that your client might consider a solar structure in the parking lot at any time in the future uh I can answer that we we have not discussed solar in okay um these are more I guess a little bit more General but um why did you decide to design a more of a postmodern type of imposing structure versus keeping in accordance with sort of the neighborhood look and feel the streetcap the um that's probably a question architect would better able to answer okay that's fine um I guess have any expansion plans been discussed at any time with the team for this site with you no okay and have you been engaged or are you aware of anyone who has been engaged by your client to do site planning at one Jefferson or any adjacent properties within 200 feet can you U help me with whereon right next to you right right here Y no thank you good evening Evan Frankle six Park Road uh two quick questions um like traffic environmental or light studies does the township to your knowledge require a security study in order to complete these plans not that aware okay um with regards to conditional use standards and the definition by the township of Milburn on a house of worship uh does that same definition apply to this house of worship if it's considered a school or a dormatory and does that change the plan in any way shape or form not sure that's really within John scope that may be a better question for our planner okay all right thank you Richard liner l n c 24 Brook Lawn Drive Short Hills uh on the map on the West Side you show I think a stream there with a r riparian buffer and you said that that's uh empties into an underground easement I believe that stream comes under old Short Hills Road and feeds a brook that aply enough runs alongside Brook law Drive alongside my lawn uh are you planning in any way in your storm water to interfere with the runoff on that stream right secondly this may be a question for your storm Water Analysis reading that report they indicate and you indicated it's supposed to empty within 72 hours uh and you're planning for a 100-year storm if we get a particularly wet period and you know Engineers plan and then weather overrides that uh and the water does not empty within 72 hours you'll have standing water and I think the storm water runoff report indicated that could provide a mosquito breeding ground what will be done once this is installed to ensure that it is emptying as projected and as planned uh and what mitigation measures will be taken if in fact the water accumulates there so that we don't get a mosquito breeding down for the neighborhood yeah good question you gra the our our some water report defines exactly uh how long the water is uh going to be held and how quick and how quickly we we are bound by law by regulations that it must be uh emptied within 72 hours does not mean that we designed to 71.5 hours so uh I don't not have that number memorized but I will I can provide you that exact number uh next time I'm here and uh as far as mosquito beating beaing grounds to be able to uh create a mosquito problems based on my experience with having standing water in the Basin and by the way uh evacuation of the Basin all the water has to come out you know and it does and supposed to it's designed so that no water is left but obviously depending on the intensity of the rainstorm sometimes it takes uh hours to to to do that to empty it but 72 hour is what we are uh asked by regulation to design for and John maybe more specifically to this gentleman's question there's a a whole very th storm waterer uh management analysis in report isn't there also a separate storm water maintenance plan that absolutely goes specifically to this gentleman's question with regard to periodic maintenance periodic inspections I believe there's even a um a form that gets filled out uh with different check marks to to fill in about things that are inspected checked maintained is that also part of our application absolutely and and it's required by regulation all the towns require and I and I apologize a lot of the towns actually want you to make that part of your the deed so that get becomes a deed restriction as far as maintenance I'm not sure whether uh uh Milburn has that requirement but that uh maintenance plan is required by regulation and we provided it yes Madam may I follow up on that question because the witness anticipated a question I was going to ask which is don't you have an onm operations C maintenance manual for your storm water and do you stipulate to reporting same with the county clerk's office so that it's part of the chain of title yes and yes thank you any other questions from question just a couple of questions Ted cuns at 108 Bo drive just a couple of clarifications you you didn't really talk about what's going to be on the second floor of the of the house of worship and we're just curious about what how that's going to be used and what what is the use of the facility yeah I I again the architect will answer that but from uh looking at the architectural plan it's there are a few classrooms just classrooms okay no housing certainly no housing the architect can speak specifically okay and the other question was you know given the number of light poles we're talking about 21 light poles that's a lot of lighting so I guess you're antic or they're anticipating a lot of evening events um to have that kind of requirement a lot of the houses of worship don't have any lightings in their parking lots so I assuming they're anticipating a lot of evening events to have that much lighting capability is that correct as far rather than what we can hear okay okay good that's good idea right to see where his plans are yeah okay other questions good even good evening everybody 20 par your last name H Natalia Karina spell sorry it's late it's 10:30 uh k a s h i r i n a well as I mentioned we live on 20 Park roads and we look at the lower parts of your lovely development where you trying to take all down all those lovely uh evergreen trees can you please explain explain me why you taking down beautiful mature tall trees and replacing them with probably what green Giants or something that's going to die and by the way doesn't have a very strong root systems so if you talking about the slope can you please explain me and prove me that big evergreen trees is not going to hold soil better than new trees yeah uh answer one question EAS question that we're only removing trees that uh are that interfere with the the parking lot and the building in the driveway all the other trees as I indicated along uh allshore Hills parsonage to the rear and to the side are not being cut uh so that yeah the these These are we are removing because of the uh the Basin has to be constructed the Basin the root system of these uh these trees would not survived during this construction uh so it's it's strictly the the Basin design that uh requires that and and the second wait wait wait sorry and you see we are adding back trees I if the can you just for the record he's not going to be able to keep your conversation so if you let him respond for the sake of record thank as indicated these trees along here are deciduous trees they're not ever green along where along the the the east side of the Basin along Old Shore Hills Road they're not have green they're deciduous tree okay if she has another question I'll let her have the mic back I think they actually have green trees because I look at them every day well not what sorry not what we're proposing for the in this this area that I mentioned are you proposing residual trees instead of evergreen trees in this location yes well it's going to affect the view of our road drastically because we're looking at those beautiful evergreen trees so your question is isn't that correct isn't that correct thank you it's correct any additional question yes I do have another additional question um the reason we move to the area is because Short Hills and particularly the area where you're building Temple place of worship is a historical area and I think dating to the 18th century and I think Milbourne is trying their best to preserve their area and the local government question it's a question yes so do you agree with me why you move to Short Hills I don't know if he can speak no no no no no about the Historical Area In fairness I don't know that his testimony on the site plan as a civil engineer addressed the historical nature of the area I anticipate that might be addressed by among others an architect Mr I don't we haven't prepared his testimony fully yet I mean he can testify as to the design of this building U I don't know that he's going to be prepared or required to testify about the architectural history of the area dating back to the 1800s that's right 100s actually thank you but but so generally the questions do need for everybody's benefit is to be based on the testimony that was provided okay by each particular witness in this case the civil engineer site plan testimony don't know that I hear that he discussed testified as to historical nature of an area okay so I can't ask how his efforts contributed to the preservation of the historical era well you you can ask can I ask you that how how your efforts contributed to the historical preservation of the era and why did you take on this project why I can answer the last part why we took a well the the first the first part we we did not again consider the uh the impact to the historical nature of the neighborhood uh in fact the house the house that would existed was demolished was allowed to be demolished so so that uh you know sort of speaks to that and the second part we're in business so we have clients come to us so we uh we get hired okay thank you any other questions thank you this Sten CH from two park across found that the prty we have a eastment we get the uh FL Waters from from from ac across the the street so so since you're an engineer I'm an engineer so let's talk uh numbers okay um so you you you talk about that uh your ret retention P will able to to keep the the flood water so can you tell tell us what's the capacity of of the the retention P you put own that I can the the storm water management for the site we have to design for the twoyear the 10year and the 100-year storm in addition to the 100-year storm DP now requires that the volume of flow the intensity of the storm for the 100 year has to be uh has to be has to manage the 2,100 storm so the way we do that DP has recommended in uh factors uh to increase the amount of water from the 100-year storms and the that factor uh is I think it's 1.5 in addition to the 100-year storm we have to increase it by 1.5 to sort of U model the 2100e storm so all that water is designed to be held and managed on site by our storm water management can we have the number how G that I don't have that memorized but I our report was submitted and uh I can be glad to provide not not on the web I look at your your look at can we confirm actually is is the storm water management report on the website yeah yeah on the website talking about no I mean it's a good question the report I think is over 100 pages so we we can simplify for the public and and provide you exactly that information so basically want to know is that for for different type of stone what what's the the the what's the way water coming down and what what's going to be the the size of the this water and what the flow rate and yeah I could again I I don't have that memorized report online and I I can provide a testimony at the next meeting to provide the public that information all I can tell in New in New Jersey the 100 a typical 100-year storm is based on time of concentration I know I'm going to get technical here but very importantly time of concentration is the the time that it takes a drop of water from the farthest Urological location to travel to the Basin for this site it's probably in the uh less than 10 minutes or eight minutes whatever uh So based on that the intensity of the under your storm is roughly 9 in per uh per per hour multiplied by the factors so you can see the the amount of safety that DP is adding to to the design but I don't have the exact number for you tonight well yeah that that's I want find like you give us Assurance but you're not showing us numbers basically we we know is that the the the capacity to find how how quickly the the feels out you have to look at the drain rate and the incoming rate and the incoming rate higher than the Dr rate and eventually it's going to fill out and what happen when the retention p is completely filled is that going going to FL Madam chairwoman um e should probably confirm it but our understanding is the full context of this report which is well over 100 100 Pages well underestimates the length of this report with all of the detailed calculations is available on the website and this gentlemen and any member of the public can analyze it to their heart's content I I would like to confirm we have the storm water maintenance plan which is about maintaining but it doesn't have the information where's that one's like this okay so that's that nope like this I think we haven't received that well then yeah let's make sure I don't think I've even seen that that's what I want to confirm that that we have it and that it's available you're not you are Mr fante you are not referring to the storm water maintenance plan dated April 30 2024 correct the storm water management report is separate from the maintenance plan this is is this K to the operations of Maintenance manual that you stipulated to would be record not really that's exactly that's exactly right okay that's what I thought and then the environmental impact statement that's not what you're referring to even though it ref storm water management correct um you're referring to can you give us the title and date uh of the plan that uh somebody you tell me maybe Mr fronte prepared Mr fron prepared and we definitely submitted it and I'm quite sure it's available online good question and bear with me one second and thank you Mr fr for and they're noting that they did submit it but it's possible that we don't have it yes that's what I think is looking into right now you can reflect the title for us 21 copies of the storm water maintenance plan that is not storm water management report prepared by E2 project Management LLC and I believe it has a date of May confirm that would either you or FR have a copy of it in in hand this evening I I do not not didn't bring it I believe the notes from the DRC meeting that we had that the engineer was in attendance at she makes reference to the her having reviewed that report in fact she noted a typo as I recall there she noted that there was a different Town's name and it but other than that she said that she had received it uh and reviewed it and that's reflected in the DRC meeting report that we have Madam the the August 15 2024 letter from Council does not seem to list that as one of the documents being submitted you okay so I think some misunderstanding appreciate that Mr okay I think we're gonna need to confirm that I don't know if gr and I was that document included in the can speak thank you so the stormw um report that um Mr LaVine just uh made reference to by title and name was submitted with the May uh submission package that was filed with the original application the that the applicant that subsequently filed resubmission items in August uh for this preceding this evening uh but they did not submit a new version of that report that's the original report and I I believe it's just kind of a that that report needs to carry over from the May submission to the August submission and and and do we know whether that may report that was not resubmitted or updated was put on the website or not is um I don't believe it's on the website okay and all right so make a suggestion the uh the uh my understanding is because we all heard it on the record uh that we are still a waiting among other things an Engineers report and then Mr fronte will be back uh and uh obviously uh there will be an interim period of time within which we can make sure this gets on the website and is available uh to everyone uh including the board members uh well before we continue the hearing on another evening which will be addressed in a little while uh and uh and then also again the engineer on behalf of the board is going to be submitting a report that No Doubt's going to address among other things this lengthy document uh and Mr fronte will have to address that and members of the public will be able to ask additional questions I suspect uh particularly related to that additional testimony that he'll be providing so again longwinded attorney but in short everybody's going to get it he's going to have to address it and everybody's gonna have an opportunity to question on it is what I anticipate and and not only that but um and I think m d just confirmed the hard c a hard and a soft copy have been available uh maybe not on the website but have been submitted since early May so there should be no reason why that can't immediately be uploaded to the to the website and and available fantastic okay was there any anything else that was submitted in May and in a good question no thank you so thank you for that question I'm guessing we have no further questions on that topic have a few would you prefer to wait until we all have the benefit of this report and I mean yes I can I can wait okay thank you okay um thank you given uh this recent uncovering and the fact that we just uh will have to get more uh materials in front of us help Mr fronte come back also means we're going to open the opportunity for the public to ask additional questions uh regarding his testimony and give more opportunity for public comment um given the time and because our now approved as of tonight bylaws note we will not introduce new Witnesses after 10:30 pm you're in such time um I propose that we move to I can announce that we can carry this application we do you have you have no objection to to stopping the public questioning of this witness now given the fact that he's going to be back for further testimony no I don't have any objection to stopping it now I just as a point of clarification and to set expectations um it largely due to the fact that we don't have the benefit of an Engineers report yet I think we had no choice but to have Mr fronte back to address any comments and issues with regard to that what I want to be clear is I I the fact that he's coming back shouldn't be an invitation to retread the same territory that we covered this evening in other words the further question shouldn't be duplicative or repetitive of what we has already been asked and answered this evening and I would hope that the additional testimony will be limited to new issues and questions that come up and the follow-up direct questions and cross-examination would similarly be limited to that and certainly there's applicable case law and the chair has the discretion to to limit questioning of any witness uh so that and and public Comon ultimately so that there's not repetition and duplication unnecessarily but within the discretion of the chair uh uh the only thing I would point out is that perhaps some members of the public this evening who wish to question Mr Bronte on his direct testimony provided this evening they should not be in my opinion precluded from asking questions relating to his testimony tonight so if they didn't have an opportunity if they didn't have an opportunity given the time constraints of the of the board no that's certain understood okay thank you appreciate that that said before we conclude I have one housekeeping question so I noticed that the witness was pointing to things on the diagram and while he indicated the the direction it's hard for those of us that can't see it to really get the full grasp of what he's talking about we do have the technological capability in this room to display things on that screen can we make sure that for next time we're able to put those materials up on the screen can we get somebody from the town to help us support that okay app will provide a screen okay also the microphone issue we address that and speaking of can you turn your on anybody but I think that's important too because I was having a difficult over here hearing some of the things that were there okay and we have additional microphones but yes weuse for the TC used for TC meetings okay we can look into that okay and we we have the capability to not only have the material displayed there but it should also be able to to YouTube so that people see the material understood I think we just might need to make sure we have somebody who has that the ability to do that okay great okay okay um that said um I would like to announce the ability to carry this application with no required further notice um my understanding is the next the date of our next meeting October 16th um is the beginning of the super holiday and the applicant is not available that yes that's correct that's correct um so this application would be to the following meeting or the subsequent meeting which is November 6th is the applicant able to meet that date uh and then or you requesting it be carried further no we're able to meet that okay and uh the uh I don't know that we yet need an extension of time to act but uh I'm you know it's not until December yeah it's a 95 day so we were deemed complete August 29th so we're nowhere near that okay um so we will announce that this application 243 will be carried to the November 6th meeting uh at 7:30 p.m here at town and just for scheduling purposes could I ask to the extent that that you're able and I know that you've carried at least one matter to October 16 uh in light of the obvious public interest and the uh number of issues involved with the application uh do you expect there's a high likelihood at the very least we'd be first on that application and hopefully the only matter on that application sorry at that agenda that evening so but I would we don't have any other as yes in that case and even if there's another one we yeah that would be helpful I'm sure to all concerned yes thank you appreciate that um I think does it does everyone understand this matter is being carried without further notice to November 6 7:30 p.m. right here I make a motion to adjourn second second all in favor