##VIDEO ID:SJPGNcHMHvk## you did you text no I don't either R the people that weread of me are not here ands okay turn your mics on folks um in accordance with Section Five of the open public meeting act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the advis and a notice that this meeting was made by posting on the Bolton board town hall and mailing the officially designated newspapers list of the meeting dates annually indicating this meeting would take place at time Hall at 700 p.m. December 16 here Gary Rosen here Regina TR here Jessica here here first we're going to start with approval of minutes we have two sets of minutes for this evening uh first of 11424 um any corrections or changes oh gosh is this the one the lighting sorry uh s uh no that that's the 18th that's the 18 so I'll read that yeah so um who's a Sean Amy Gary Regina Jess right okay uh any question changes on those minutes if not can I have a motion to adopt move approval second all those in favor I anyone opposed next up we have the minutes of 11824 uh any corrections or changes yeah the only change is [Music] on page 10 there was um the applicant is agreeable to having the lights on a dust to D timer and agreed to have the lights on the not to have the lights on past midnight that's not a dust time well it was he agreed to the dust D and I think you had made a then I asked like can he be more specific we talked about would there be apartment complex are there residences nearby well and then he said yes there will be and then he said I would be I would consider TR we're revisiting all that anyway so F I mean there's nothing in the resolution that said states that there's no addition of approval right um any other correction changes on those minutes um who's eligible what wasn't it yeah illumination said I don't think there's any resents as well there will be Apartments well the apartments are not on top of the restaurant yeah we talked about same as Amy gar Regina um and Jessica you yeah was there he actually made the comment said there's hard that's not be 300. am looking for place anyway motion to approve motion to approve that's corrected second second all those in favor I I oppose next up with the memorialization starting with calendar 4624 uh Willow milour LLC 35 Main Street in milour any corrections or changes um the only uh the only thing I the page three and Page four initially it had said the 12th day of December I it had to be cored to the 16 that only change okay um who's all eler are Amy Gary Regina Jessica um I have a motion to approve mization so moved and second second Amy Lawrence yes Gary Rosen yes Regina TR yes Jessica GL yes next up we have counter 41124 petition Flavio Emeral at 159 any questions or changes same same um I have a motion a motion to approve calendar 4 41124 super any on second sure Amy Lawrence Gary Rosen yes Regina TR yes Jess yes and lastly 3 99824 Divan Shu vs and kah at 33 South Mountain Road in Milburn any corre or changes eligible eligible are Amy Gary Regina I have a motion to approve that memorialization motion to approve secondy La yes Gary Rosen yes yes okay so getting to our applications here for those playing along at home calendar 39 9124 uh Timothy O'Brien 386 heart stor drive that matter is going to be carried for scheduling purposes only to 11325 followed with calendar 39 8424 that is 57 Factory Drive R stogi uh that is going to be carried for um scheduling purposes to 11325 followed by calendar 39624 uh 38 Crescent um arus that two will be carried to 11325 scheduling purposes only so uh these could change and what looks to be calendar 39 8324 which is 112 canook Road uh CAC and bronstein that two will be now moved to 11325 um no further notice would be given on any these applications uh please keep an eye on on the uh website town hall for any other changes that may go on uh especially as it comes to the real dates those cases might be heard so first up this evening we have a matter matter carried from 11824 count 40524 by smth road is I hate to ask this but I think have somebody coming who was going to help me I'm in that position and he said well it was the third one you know can I come a little later I don't know to do well unfortunately we need to move forward so I would uh recommend getting a hold of them I'm trying yeah um and uh that's I mean most attorneys know that that's not really always the case that we do move jle things around a bit so but it still reflect that um just so that you can make it know that you did watch the video oh yes I did watch the Youtube video of the prior testimony um regarding this case Okay do we need to be resor no both ra you swear from testimony about to give tonight's proceeding be the truth all truth not truth I do just state your name for the record Mar now thank you all right good evening board and thank you for um Rel listening to us I brought a lot of exhibits and I brought exhibits because of a lot of the questions who came up during the hearing um I want to enter them and then I'll distribute them so that's fine sure I don't think I submitted them I talked about it okay all right so then uh we'll mark As A1 uh whatever and describe what you're giving us pictures when they were taken okay the first exhibit is a landscaping exhibit it's going to show a series of trees that exist on the property it's connected to a second exhibit which shows trees that were planted as part of an HPC approval process and the third are pictures of the property with those trees if board members have not had a chance to go to the property I can put this as one exhibit yes four pages there's four there's four P well three pages how many photos two photos two photos two photos will be A3 the Landscaping will be A1 and the trees planted with the HBC appr a okay hold on back up trees are A3 and A2 the photos are A3 can you say there's two photos yes A1 is going to be your Landscaping exhibit A2 is to be your tree repl exhibit I believe tree addition they've been since planted I'm going to date them all 1216 24 so there's three yes and A3 is made up of two pages uh start with start all right describe yeah Exhibit 2 and this one I'll mark A4 is the type of grass that exists over the tennis court there was question from one of the board members of how you what's Turf so it's just a Turf exhibit and there's two sheets got it the next exhibit is an exhibit about what the roof was made out of that came up during the meeting and I had testified that it was a combination of polycarbonate and standing seam met so I brought both of those exhibits and I'll mark them 85 and I'll date them today 1216 24 it's made up of two sheets eile all right the next exhibit is an exhibit that says how do you play tennis in an 18t tall structure was a height uh questioning so I brought some exhibits to to show how such a structure exists and there's three different ones that we have here two have sidewalls but they are relatively low roofs uh mostly for back and forth hitting not not voling these are exhibits that were also presented before the HPC this is three sheets of pictures I all right the next exhibit I have handouts this is so that you the board members um could have access to these at all times these are the exact distances of the tennis court that exist there today to all the adjacent neighbors there's three sheets in this exhibit Regina that's marked A6 so this will be marked A7 it's are youing exibit yeah okay well the is the exact product used yeah it is okay yeah I'm not addressing those those are really they were informational the product was actually used on okay so is that true for A6 as well like this is no those are examples of how tennis courts like this for hitting Bay exist oh no it's pretty close that one's really close no walls PR standard roof I I apologize my I just got a phone call my attorney is caught in traffic is there any way we could hold up for 10 minutes no we're g to keep moving make sure I told you I apologize sure all right the next exhibit is A7 and it's a handout so here's the marked exhibit of A7 with the date and the rest of can I can you speak to sorry sorry they will not speak to you try I have the the the attorney and one more exhibit this is the last one and this one I'll be speaking to this is a um a very complex illumination plom metrics um design illustrating light spillage that will occur as a consequence of this structure with the exact light fixtures and the exact landscaping around it you need another one I have more okay so I'll repeat that the next one the next one is A8 and this is an engineered lighting study which shows the impact of the lighting being placed in the structure on all surrounding areas page four of this exhibit is the plom matric adjusted for page five adjusted for landscape Cas spot yeah excuse me ma'am excuse me ma'am on the phone okay yeah if you're answer the phone please take it outside if this is the lawyer talking to me super still do it outside I will I apologize was the 88 is the um neighborhood surrounds is the lighting that's correct the lighting oh A8 is the lighting yes I'm sorry okay here you go all right so it's coming oh I have it it's just one copy yeah I only marked one so far two okay these lighting studies were done mostly at the time of the AC meeting um but they they're accurate and they depict the light spillage that would occur as a consequence of an approval of the roof's structure um with the the lighting U shown the lighting studies on pages two three and four are before the Landscaping has been input into the program and the page five is the lighting study um with the impact of having trees around it and you'll see it's virtually none once you get past the property okay so tonight's um application has to do with why we're here we were approved before the historic preservation commission and it was a difficult series of meetings because they had never seen anything like it um we were successful in arguing that an open Air tennis Pavilion with a surrounding wall and columns built to mimic 85 Stewart Road with ivy and stone very much Blended in to the aesthetic of the property the property that this sits on is 100,000 square feet or approximately two and a half acres more maybe closer to three acres the property is in L-shaped property as shown in the plans that you have it's L-shaped the tennis court is tucked into the back right corner dog L of that everything about this Pavilion believe it or not is conforming structure except for two elements the lower right side as you approach the court and the upper left side are only 9 6 in to the first post for the roof structure whereas 12 is required because of that a small variance is needed as depicted in my pink color in the top left corner in the bottom right corner on sheet C2 which I'll mark as an exhibit as soon as we're done and have one of these well that's the extent of the variance this corner and the lower section it's the unusual nature of the structure that everyone had questions on which is why I did all those handouts those handouts are as clear to what we're planning as anything in this the handouts you received there's also a picture that my plotter printed of the property and the structure with its translucent Center and its standing seam metal sides the translucent Center just to bring natural light in during the daytime when is the intended use the purpose of the lighting is just to allow extended play and cold weather like this where it gets dark early um they have coaches that come in and help instruct their children in both soccer as well as tennis um and though that's the uh variance it's really just those two corners um it's we're up to your board to say that that's okay we just the first each of those Corner columns would just be in the in the way of the tennis play because you're too close to the corner of the Court that's the extent of my presentation how many other the tennis courts PR tennis courts are lit in town private there's an ordinance prohibiting the lighting of a tennis court in town right how many um clubs actually have lit tennis courts um I know rackets has a lit tennis court I don't know about no they don't not Li ten courts oh they know then jro Park well it's Municipal yeah Municipal right so any other clubs have the tennis cours Cano Brook is technically in town we have lit tennis courts and they use would you say that's a similar type of location residential location to this no does Short Hills Club have l tenns no no um so why why wouldn't you make the roof more translucent so that you get more light in during hours and this way you don't have to do light I mean in the summertime it's like till 9:00 at night so yeah they would accept hours of operation on it I argue it this way it's a building um and I think lighting ought to be provided under the structure of a building um they're not if it's a building then that may be a whole another that's another Avenue to explore than zoning wise I um no if it's a building the UCC the uniform construction code might say like they do now where you have doors on a house you must have lights outside those doors uh it may fall under a requirement to have lighting but I don't know well that's not how you got it approv for HBC as a building you have it approve as as a open air facade more yes yes what's that was it approved as an accessory structure is that it's an yeah it's approved accessory structure no the term I think he's challenging the term of calling it a building meaning that if I'm calling it a building then we have to have lighting and therefore it's kind of handcuffing the way I present to him um what is the purpose of the lighting I mean exactly what you said on a day like today when our kids are training and playing it's dark so early so having lighting gives them a little bit extra time before dinner and into like the early evening to just keep training we have four kids they can't all train together so it's literally we piggyback one the next the next and it just gives us more time but it's not to play I mean they're 10 they're eight they're turning six I mean we're not going to be up using this you know past dinner time what about the next people that buy the property hopefully we have for a very long time so when your kids are teenagers right and they have friends over so we have to also think about it from a municipal L's purpose which is that our decisions run with the land not just you so this is imp perpetuity decisions we make the tennis court is already there and I mean what's very different than than a cover structure of liting I can tell you what my my senior in high school would do with this facility be Braves every night but you would allow that I well let's go this way you can try what you want to allow or not allow they'll still do it noise ordinance is up until 11 o'clock yeah I don't think that will happen so if we well no no that's for that's for you guys saying I we have to think about next no I was gonna say if the recording C so we have as you can see in the location we have like a whole acre of open land of grass if we wanted to put up a rave we could do it anyway anyone could put it up so and we would need approval probably from a state to throw a party which our neighbor M kogan the one next door I think about 3 months ago did and got approval and put up a tent and put lights up and to rep part approval for that no no what I'm what I'm just saying if if there was a need to do it I think there's the space to do it and it wouldn't be the tenis structure that would do it the reason why we would like this to get done is because we have so I was an athlete I am firm believer so with my wife about the use of technology and if I could have my kids outdoor longer I think it's much more healthier you know I forget the stat on I have a female daughter or daughter I think the stat of CEO women's that are uh been part of a a sport is like 80% of all the Fortune 500 women in that are CEOs actually played Sports so if you ask me personally I think this is all about providing opportunity for my kids that quite frankly I didn't get grown I grew up in Brazil I didn't grew up with the house that I had but it's an important element of just making sure our kids are outside and they can play and you know if noise is an ordinance we're happy to discuss the level of the noise that I know Miss kogan is here for um but again the lighting is not an issue as I think we've provided for uh there's no spillage I think the question that maybe you guys are having is around the noise less so the lights um and I'm not doubting for a minute that you would be a good actor it's we have to think once again yeah imp Peru but the lights um I guess just just to separate to make sure I understand as well the lights um there's no spillage on the lights correct the issue is if there's lights that are thatan that means you could play and I'm not saying you this is what you're planning but your kids could play at 3 in the morning right they could they could do that they could do that now it' be a little hard would it be hard to do I don't know our like they can bring lights outside I don't know like they're kids once again I I think you're our Point our point is not about you yeah it's about what could happen 20 years fromo and that's the decisions we make we don't make decisions for you we actually don't even care how you use this properly so why is everyone keep asking us in what sense we've been asking I'm not asking you I've been asked you once how you use the property I didn't ask once no I guess the question I'm saying what the intended use could be in the future that's how we have to make our decision like we don't care what you do inside your house we don't ask about how you decorate your house we don't ask about what you do on your porch your patio your your driveway we don't care we honestly don't we don't care what you're actually using that for right I mean you say tennis we're not standing there making sure you're playing tennis on there or making play playing soccer yeah no we're playing soccer so um but I guess the question is just make sure I understand is the light spillage is there it's it's not there so I think the question that you guys are posing on us is the noise is that correct well it once again no it's it's it could be you it could be the next person that okay so if we move out and someone moves in with a teenager and they throw a rave the issue is the noise not the light is that correct I'm trying to make sure what if they take what if they take the plants the trees down what if I take the structure down what if they take the structure down no I'm just I'm like I'm say that's so we have to think about that okay so you're saying it's not the light but something could change in the future where light there is light spillage I don't think it's so much for me personally the lights Village I think it's the ability to play late at night and I'm not saying you're going to do that but I don't know what the next person's going to do are there hours of play requirements in town like when does tennis I'm genuinely asking because we're new here I just want to sort of like write the ship here a little bit you're asking for a variance because it is forbidden so you're coming to us asking for permission to do something that is not allowed so I think that's a fundamental thing that you have to like understand it's not allowed we're trying to hear some reason but there's reasons under the law that we can allow it and you know and then wanting your kids to be athletes is unfortunately not one of the things that's permitted under law in terms of us giving you a variance while we understand what everybody wants the best for their kids totally understand I'm not here debating just to make I understand what you guys I guess what I was just trying to understand is is the question cuz I I'm trying to understand the the comment so my concern is the lighting because Actually I don't even understand this I know you gave us these I don't it's looks it looks nice it's very it's a measurement of lumens that takes place with that exact fixture light has a way of seeping in between trees I don't know I know that's from my neighbor I I planted and they've got a well illuminated house and guess what spite of all my Arbor that I've planted over the years anticipating that big house next to me I can see them at night I'm like there it is so light does have a way of SE it does unfortunately that's why page four is there with page five page four shows the spillage without trees and page five shows the impact of the trees because both have to be considered but the reason there's ordinance there you can't allow these things to be lit up all night is because of light spillage is one thing because there is heav spillage and also the ability to extend the function of this except I don't know whatever this tennis board structure whatever you want to call it is a is a component of being good neighbors our attorney has a question you kind of variance we looking for here the variance is for 30 in I not it's for what kind C1 C2 C1 what's your hardship that's not personal to your clients um the existing tennis court that's there sits a skew to the property lines which we discovered literally in August or September that aunis which is depicted on sheet C1 forces a very small sliver beginning in the lower right corner to be non-compliant for 30 in and then it ends approximately 78 3/4 of the way up the court and a very small sliver approximately 5 feet across and 5 feet down in the top leftand Corner because the either of those slivers are not exactly 12 feet or greater to the property line the sers of the the roof roof okay so the courts existing yes right so you want to put a non-compliant roof on it the roof is slightly larger than the and doe it's just a matter of safety the court ends a little bit short of that so by having the column 30 in into each of these two corners it just makes it more playable that was the rux of the variant initially um the knowledge that the lighting is also an issue and I hear the concerns I I question is if we were to remove the lighting would that give us a better chance before your commission for the approval of that 30 inch variance um because that's there's really those two elements you got a compliant tennis court if you want to move forward with a hard variance it's up to you stating that you have a hardship that for some reason you have to put a roof with a light with lights in it on top of a compliant tennis court and if you're comfortable you want afford it that's a hardship that's up to you in the traditional Sense on a 2 and A2 acre property it would be hard for me to argue that this is a space hardship this is a hardship that's a a product of just having self-imposed hard yeah we were when we went before HPC we did not plan on going before the board of adjustment we um HBC and the board of adjustment have different standards for different things HBC is a design standard yeah I don't have any perw over that um let me get the question understood correctly you want to you want to you're you're asking for a C1 variance yeah you are stating then that this room with these lights both of which are non compliant in order to have those there's a hardship on your client that is not person for that that's right I think it would be better if these two these two corners it would be better if they were outside the corner play area of the court I think that's just a matter of just safety someone's running into it that's how this came up um that's but once again this is still a self-imposed hardship okay you have no hardship as it runs with the land but use I think you're can conflating two different things here what you're doing in it has nothing to do with the hardship itself you have a piece of property that's substantially larger than the Zone requires okay so there is no property as it runs with the land you're creating the hardship based on what you're doing that's that's not a hardship in the sense of M land well there is a a betterment to the existing Court to have the roof slightly larger than the court the betterment is one of that's do to do with land use um you're not meeting your land you're not meeting the positive and negative criteria that's where John's going with this I mean just by saying oh it's nice to have it outside get all that but that doesn't meet be positive and negative criteria well the I mean everybody with like roofs and lights all over their backyard use it all the time um the DI Minimus nature of this roof overhang is a significant factor here is it I say it's dominous because it's a small sliver of 5x5 in the top leftand corner and basically the right side from 30 in down to zero in um the argument other than saying that it would be better if it was placed this way for safety of the of the use I don't know if I can argue a land element that's causing this other than the fact that was discovered the court sits slightly es skew and we want to be because the court complies so we don't have a problem with court it's the use that you that you're that you're now taking it to the next use that's the problem right so once again I would argue haven't met the positive or negative criteria under of C1 or Tom can you just remind me um because I can't find um attachment e anywhere what what are the variances right now that that you're going for there are two variances that we're going for and I might have it uh variance one is the construction of a roof slightly larger than a compliant Court whereas two 30in um um setbacks right are violated in the top left and bottom right corners of the Court 12 feet is required right 12 feet is required 9.6 feet is proposed for just those two corners and the second is the inst institution of light no the installation of lighting as an accessory structure uh Rec is it recreational recreational structure recreational structure not allowed in the uh in the uh in the town and could you have put the the the roof over because I because I was sitting on HPC when you came for yeah you don't need I they don't need a variance per se for putting the the roof over it's the size of of the roof and you're saying that the size of the roof is because HPC wanted you to design it in a certain way that that's making the overhang or you're just choosing to so I guess what I'm asking is can you just put put a roof on that that could so I included the and then you're getting what you you know you're still getting a covered tennis court you know right so let me go back and I did give you a copy of the resolution and Mrs glad is correct on one matter part of getting HPC approval before um the meetings that we were at was the implementation of a wall around the court a thickness to that wall Pro 30 in and that put our our posts which are integrated with that wall away from the quarter if we were to put the posts on the inside of the wall it does you know it's kind of like could it could be it could affect the way the courts play also undermines the court which is what I understood we actually have to like go into the existing Court yeah the walls are outside the court uh and so that's that's what started this 30 inch Revelation and and because the they're so di minimist they're just literally they're so small um it came up and I said we're going to have to go be before the board because it's small or not it's a variance any questions from the board yes sorry so I just one of the variances I thought what you said is one of the variances is the fact that it's a structure itself that's not compliant like to build so what part of this makes it a structure if it's not the roof no I called it a building I said because a building is defined as a columned and roofed structure in what's in our ordinance but if we don't building coverage that's the definition build right so if we if we just exempt that and say that that's not the case I didn't mean to overstate that that was purely that and accessory structure is not limited maybe the master plan could could create a limitation but right now there's no limit to what an accessory use structure set [Music] 12T they're atever n and change yeah nine and change for very very small amounts but we're there um and so I asked the question if lighting was removed would there would this board see this as more approvable um or do you want us just to let's talk about the nature of the the materials that the roof is being made do you is there a variance related to the materials of No but I did I did submit to you that the center section and I have a really good picture here and I'm going to take yeah that is a nice and I'll pass it around because it's better than my plotter can do this was done by my 11 by 17 um A9 is the next exhibit okay hear me nothing I see nothing and this is a pretty good ition of the sunlight during the daytime entering the court th that was produced by my office it is um a pretty realtime rendering and you'll see that perhaps the use of more polycarbonate would make the lighting on the court better as opposed to steel panel it's my understanding that if we did do that more polycarbonate I need I need cross bracing the steel corrugated roofing acts as a sheathing material and it actually braces the structure so a certain amount of sheeting was always initially intended um can I ask our board Attorney question um with respect to you know hardship do do does does he need to show a hardship or can it also be you know [Music] Varian I don't know [Music] um I don't know if thew this a lawyer question could they agree to a stipulation deed restricting the imple the use of Lights if they sld the property they have to remove the lighting see how you g do that um I question the enforceability of something like that too I don't know the enforceability of it um whether or not it has an effect on the way the board decides you know you're you're restricting the use of land it's always a question so if you're telling somebody you have to take something down when you move it's always great area yeah and and how many years from now is someone going to remember that stipulation you know it's just not okay it's very hard I I can tell you how many times in town we've required people to put trees up and trees die and they don't go back so it's you know it's it's always best to have as few of those as possible on an application so it goes back to my question if we were just to um scrap the use of lighting out here um does this board have a more favorable impact for those two sections where we're overhanging I think I'd have to hear from I think there are other folks here want to talk could even think about that but I said I'm not I'm not ready to make a decision on that but you know I think we just hear the testimony so um any questions for Mr B board no just just confirming that you don't know of any other lighted private residential t cours no I don't know of any other I was just say that a tantamount would be a cabana or an open air people have covered porches on their home and those are lit and um but not a recreational structure like a tennis or soccer field and pools specifically says pools are allowed start pered 30 in above the ground yeah I mean only one more Point uh my seven which is the distances to neighboring properties these are distances probably unachieved by anybody else in town to have an accessory structure so far away from surrounding neighbors homes um I that might speak a little bit to a C1 where I could see an Avenue where the board could look at that and say well it's a very different type of setback for 30 Ines it really so far away from neighboring properties and it's so far away that that it would have very little impact this much in the corners um as a way of allowing them better usability any other questions for any questions for the a from the audience regarding my name St in forther the mic for for me if you could thank you uh my name is Bernard Riley I represent Mrs Cogan who lives next door I apologize for being late I uh 85 I believe it's Stewart um3 83 I my apologies um in any event uh could I ask a couple of questions sure of good oh I'm sorry I'm sorry you're the engineer I'm the architect Thomas beo the a i o okay uh I gather um uh are there any other tennis courts that have roots on them in town no not that I'm aware of okay and as as I read the paperwork on this application uh the reason you want the roof is because the the Sun that lives there is a fairly good tennis player they have four children they are both former professional athletes they use the tennis court as More Than Just Tennis they play soccer on it I introduced an exhibit there's a Turf surface that was put on there keeps it kind of quiet but it's used for multi-purpose there's a Turf surface that's going to be used for the T court it's on the court already okay um and the reason you you are requesting a roof is what extended play during half uh bad weather they can go out there um I had submitted a bunch of exhibits it would be only fair say if you want to see them yeah one of them shows tennis play under a 18 foot tall roof where they practice serving and return hits so it's basically for their edification in practicing their game that's right okay um now there are other sports courts in town or there not not tennis courts but Sports type of Courts yeah I I spoke earlier there might not be a roofed tennis court there might be one in Milbourne I think there's a sports academy there not sure no no longer oh it's no longer there I remember it was approved years ago so uh not that I'm aware of okay um I'm sorry could you could you show me what you again I apologize for coming in i123 this that's one that's A7 it's this depicts the measurements from the court to the adjacent residences okay and uh my client's resident is where on this sheet okay this is the subject property okay it's L-shaped Mrs kogan's house is right here okay and this presumably is going to be usable with lights there's going to be lights on I we are here because one of the variances we requested was the installation of Lights okay and have you testified to what are the reasons that justify that variance reasons land use reasons or is that somebody else no that's me that's you okay and what are the reasons that are justifying this as a land juice not for the comfort and edification of the property owners but from a land use point of view what justifies this whenever you have a roof structure generally I look at it as safety requires that you have some pathway lighting or some sort of lighting in it well let's talk about the roof never mind the lighting uh what justifies from a land use perspective not from the individual comfort of the residents what justifies this from a land use standpoint there's no justification from a landu standpoint there's just some additional testimony I I gave about trees and submitted lighting spillage okay um PL so you tried to minimize the adverse impacts yes but there's still no justification from a land use point of view to approve this for this board to approve it correct with regard to lighting no no with regard to I'm talking about the roof I asked you about the roof and I asked you what from a land use perspective not the personal comfort of the occupants because that's not a justification what's the justification from a land point of view for this structure to be there this big structure and I think you said there is none correct one second having done this 33 years I'm relying on my memory banks from good planners well I think you're going to have to wait a long time to figure out I'm sorry I don't want to comment go ahead the nature of the Zoning Board of adjustment is to look at individual applications and apply land use standards and other reasons in the approval of structures that cannot be compliant in this particular case those other reasons are because going before a different board our columns got pushed out of and because of that it forced two sections of this court in a rather very minimal way of being non-compliant the top left and the bottom right sliver for about three4 of the side given that they're both very di Minimus but real um we applied for a board of adjustment under other reasons not necessarily you say other reasons what are we talking about what other reasons well there's Ru reasons and what's another reason uh it would be it would it would benefit my client to have those columns slightly further away from the court it would benefit my client to have extended play so they can have coaching for their four children and it would be a benefit to my client to have the ability to play during rainstorms okay or coach but this a roof tennis court I take it is not permitted as proposed correct a roof over the tennis court if we move these columns in this permissible structure we wouldn't be here and what about the light the light would not be a permissible structure so you're asking for the liting and it's not permit that's correct okay um do you know approximately how far this court is from my client's house yes page two of this exhibit it's a three-page exhibit shows that to Mrs kogan it's 178.000 4 ft okay and that's the closest proximity which is her corner of the garage not really that okay so it's about 175 ft right yes sir um and this is proposed to be lighted for what hours um they would accept limitations on hours uh as part of condition um they haven't proposed any hours but I'm sure they would be a minable to 7 P.M we what we talked about with historic preservation was following whatever the town requires or I mean something different if that's what's asked what do pered to require doesn't tennis have to stop at a certain time am I did I well the lighting is not allowed is that correct that's right um thank you um the uh would there be any kind of um other than practice that you've talked about would there be games there would would would there be um you know organized games of any type my clients would accept a condition of appro that this would only be related to sports and no other function and the main purpose I think is is tennis but there would be other games soccer is the primary use and Tennis is it's a tennis court so tennis has existing basketball hoops on it and it has some basketball okay so there would be basketball soccer tennis would be the primary yes sir so that would be I guess an all year round type of thing it's not one it's the other um yeah I you could play in the winter too yeah the idea is that we can use this year round that we could use it when it's raining that when we have four kids who love to be outside so if it means they can be outside in the rain absolutely all right I have no other questions thank you wait you before you steal them sorry my apologies no that's okay you can have one that's an extra one thank you any other questions uh for the professional can I talk no you're well you're represented by no no but I didn't say he was the only one I was I intend well she's gonna talk all right then then then she hired you hired him to speak to if you want to come forward yes uh it's under your I didn't know you were taking public we haven't done public comment yet right you got chance to so uh any other questions from the audience regarding this application next we're to jump to comment so if you would like to bring your client forward now I can talk yes okay I may I also out things please yes okay okay councelor you will you be uh coaching this or I'll be asking you a question very well okay I mean I'm basically gonna let her speak understand I have not spoken I have not met him or spoken with him before he walked in understand you you hired him to repres present you so at this point he is your C all right how do I wait wait show you have some exib you want to present wait she has to be sworn in right raise your right hand do you swear from testimony you're about to give tonight be the truth hold truth not by the truth yes I do state your name and address for the record Susan Hogan with the k k o g n and the address is 83 Stewart s d w okay it's been testified that your your house is approximately 175 ft away from the structure is that accurate I have no idea okay you live next door yes I do live next door all right and I will say that even though they're on they're not on Two and a Half acas because it's less than that at least that's what the it's reported the majority a big majority of the house is in front have you been there a big majority is in front of the house of the land but they are trying to put a lot in this small much smaller part that's behind them okay all right what pictures do you have there okay may I show yes okay so I'm sorry I didn't bring enough for everybody what these are all pictures what these are all photographs yes and they how many I have four of the same I have four of the same that I'm going to hand out now how many different photographs um I have two but I didn't t i i i i only two different pictures that's that's for now yes so mark one take one two pictures okay well they they'll have to divide it I didn't know there now this one I need to hold I only have one of that and can I have one of these okay all right these are the same so I just think1 Pages that's that's one picture there's four copies picture all right problem and then I have something else I would you you want to describe what's in the now can I go over the photo first yes and then there was something else that I broke so Mrs kogan you're gonna be explaining this photo correct yes I'm gonna be explaining it for two different reasons okay very well okay so this is the mutual fence between us um I don't think I planted it I think the people before you planted it and what you see the first thing that you see that's my tree and but right behind it there's something that's blue that's the pool they have right behind that what's green is the tennis court where where's this T picture taken from this is taken from my property is it like the front door of your property Orr where no I walked closer so I could get a little bit better picture okay okay okay so and but I have it here for two diff I have it here to show it to you it's not that far away from me they're G to be building a building that is a little bit overwhelming and that's what I overlook and um as I said the other day when I I talked when we were last time I said said when the people built the tennis court they had assured me that that's all would be done they would never do anything else and it wouldn't be um you know and they would use it at appropriate times which they did no complaints about that but that's like what you said what happens with the next people they want to do what the other people promised me would be done so you know when you said that it made me think but I have this for two reasons and I'd like to hand out something else which is your reports but it's just be and there's there's one for everybody what is that because we have a copy bar yeah I know it's just it's I just it's just three pages that I wanted to point out so you didn't have go point it out we already have have but I thought it would be easier no no just go ahead you can discuss that from there okay so um this is the report so on page there's a page two which is towards the back that that's why I think it would be easier if I just show give it to you well I think she's referring to uh you refering to the HPC resolution yes she's referring to the the HPC resolution on page two page two and three paragraph four five I this is one this is when um you were talking and it says he he expected the noise not to exceed 55 DB and then it had to be removed because obviously it's going to be louder than 55 DB I am no nois an accurate sorry that's an accurate not I'm I'm reading sorry you have a chance question what I'm saying is I don't know how loud even 55 Deb is but that was the comment okay so that's one thing that I wanted to talk about and then on the next page which is Page Three and I'm looking at number nine okay it says Mr Bale stated that since April the applicant has planted 75 trees along the property line with the neighbor who testified at the first meeting that is an out and out Mis representation and I would like to that's what I passed out so as you can see they're absolutely those trees most of them were there there absolutely no trees planted along here when was this picture was taken yesterday okay and not only are there no I'm trying to figure out out want this say something so there absolutely no trees planted along here and so I don't know where in the world they're writing that there's 75 trees along the property this which I did not hand out which is another one which I'm I can leave it it shows a slightly different area it's also completely no trees or anything you can pass that around thank you okay so that was and then can I make a few so you can see that it is not trees I don't know what they said they did but it's not by me okay um the what I'm going to say is the town of Milbourne put in that there were no lights over auxiliary beinging buildings for a reason okay why because they didn't want people to have noise all night long all morning long at all times they did it to protect Neighbors from one another and that's what I'm saying is a I think the the structure that they're going to build is you see it's not that far from me it's in the front it's when people drive up my driveway that's what they see it doesn't look nice and um you know and I I think to me the lights so that they would be able to be played at all times is a big deterant and now you can put a time frame on it but if they go over what am I supposed to do start calling the police every time they go over that's a little bit crazy and now is that me I apologize I thought I shut it off promise it's I don't know why how to please um so okay the oldest now as has been said I think it's 10 almost 11 and there four other children within five years they're G to have a bunch of teenagers the teenagers have friends coming in it's not going to be just them they're going to want it there's a big Court I used to coach soccer not in this town but in Livingston when I live there I know how noisy it is in soccer you don't need a lot of people but everybody's yelling they said there are existing I believe there are existing basketball nets now but if you want to play it at night do you know what it sounds like when that I don't care what they put on the when that basketball hits the net and when you play basketball people say sh you know pass it to me this and that as the kids get older there's going to be an awful lot more playing and a lot more things and I've there was something else that could be played on the field besides I mean you can play football there are many other sports that could be played there I can't limit you're not limiting them nor am I trying to limit them want to do things in the afternoon during the day fine things shouldn't be able to be done towards evening when people are resting now as I say that I'm being very serious I am not the healthy as people I do sometimes like and I do sometimes go to sleep at 9:00 at night and then sometimes I can't get to sleep until 3 in the morning where I want to sleep later for them to be playing basketball or soccer or anything it's going to be a lot of noise and the lights would permit them to do that without the lights they wouldn't be able to do that and I I just think it's really unfair okay and I'm sorry do you U believe this will impair the use of your property I think it'll a I think I also think it'll affect my um property's value to have this building because that's what it's going to be in front of us it'll it'll affect the view that we see right now there's some there's not a lot of Rass left between the pool and I I'm not I haven't been in the backyard that often I was there two or three times and that's it so I don't want to say exactly what the back backyard looks like but I do think there'll be a lot of kids there to be playing because it'll be indoors they'll be the only ones who could do it on a rainy day all the friends will come over to their house it's just not fair that's that's all I can say it it's ignoring somewhat my rights if I could say it and if there's anything else and as I said I I there was supposed to be trees planted but no trees were planted right of any significance now I think that's all I can I just think it's not fair which house is yours on this you can take a look at where their house is versus where your house is this was a this was a handout from the applicate their house which is there okay this is their house their tennis that's the tennis courts that's correct so this is probably mine yes no no no to refence I'm on the next I'm the next house on steart Ro I'm over here and the pictures that you took where were you standing when you took those photos um over here you got to speak up over here we have to be able to hear all point out point out to the board go back to the microphone please thank you my house is where which page has the this is the one with the distance this distance is is this line is here the they say it says I'm the closest yes I believe that's and why don't you just point out so they can see where you were where the picture was taken you just the picture was taken from over here so this is my I have what's called they don't they don't permit it anymore in Milburn but I have what's called what flag a flag lot which is if you could imagine I have a driveway and that's the pole and then you come up and I have a big Drive circle on top and my house is on one side like a flag would be so and my house somewhat overlooks it it's a little bit higher this is a standard Google Maps photo so North is pointing up yeah um I think so yeah it's standard I didn't I didn't so you're pointing to the southwest corner of their property yeah yeah I think point point point again where you where you were standing when you took the pict yeah that's I don't understand this this is what well this is your house here and that's the obvious this is our driveway is next to each other your house has your house has the Red Roof with the circular Drive in the front of it yes it looks to have like a tree in the middle of itess yes that's it got that's my house but as you can see and I as I showed you from the picture the tennis court would be right right there and your yeah you're be faces it your house faces my the front yard and we do and when my husband was around we did a lot more entertaining than I'm doing now but we I still try to entertain and we do go outside in the front we go out in the back too I'm not going to say we don't but that's where my porch is I sit sit on the porch a lot to read when I want to get outside and everything but um I I don't know else to say you I just think that the lights and I I really don't want to live in a life where I have to call the police every time they're playing at a different hour or something like that and as I said I think the town put no lights for a definite reason I guess that that's the best I could say further um this is mine this is not mine you guys have any questions and this is no I mean I don't know if it's questions but just maybe questions yes you have any questions for this okay because I do you have any questions yes I do um how often just so we by way m co and I are obviously neighbors so I said regardless of the outcome we would and I happen to I have Rover for cake so okay I to be a big sports fan and he is a pro soccer player used to be used to be in indoors right no oh was out I'm sorry okay no I think I think the question that I would have is uh thank you for the pict I think as relates to the pictures how often are you in that exact location that you take the picture and you're under oath I believe right yeah yeah no I I I'm being honest I went a little bit closer so I could get the picture in but there's no trees that are blocking there's nothing that's blocking the view from my house do you have you could look down do you have a picture of where you sit with your porch to show I didn't try to get a picture but the light would come through as somebody said they had lights and the lights came came through the trees and everything trees don't block lights trees really don't block sound it might block it a little bit I can't say I'm no expert and but it doesn't do what you want it to do and I can think as they're growing older they will have more kids and more friends over and especially on a day like today all their friends would have wanted to come inside and play basketball last question um gonna say um okay can't believe I blank okay and and there something else I was gonna mention well at this point we're only open for question okay from go ahead I had a good question but I forgot I apologize but I guess no no question any questions from board anything further coun uh no I can't say anything about the attitude that they might have no okay I had to bring in pictures no but at this point at this point we okay because I do have some pictures okay yeah okay I mean I would like to make a couple comments and summation absolutely you're more than happy to do that thank you uh any other questions from the audience let it be known the only other people in the audience are the next app go ahead well I I I I think the question as a board you have to answer is is there a land use reason that justifies this it's not a question of it's nice to have because uh they have kids and the kids want to play in a roof facility with a lighted facility want to play at night that's not the the question the question is is there a land use reason for this and there really is not and frankly you know the old thing about the slip slope you're on I mean I've been a board attorney in a few towns down the shore and they have sports and they they theyve they turn into a problem because somebody has a couple of kids and they bring over their friends and all of a sudden it's it's a a place of public assembly this is precisely what could and probably will happen here uh and I don't think you should Grant variances for such a facility I mean you know there's Parks there's I'm sure there's plenty of parks in Milburn people can go to the parks that's what they're there for it's no reason to have Park in your house or at your house even though this is obviously a nice house and a big house and a decent sized piece of property it's going to impact the neighbors uh it's going to impact her obviously quite substantially and there's no reason to Grant variances for this it's not and as I asked the question what's the land use reason and there is none there just is no land use reason no positive criteria is being met as required and secondly is it going to be a detriment to the neighbors sure it's going to be it's going to be a detriment to the neighbors it may may be uh uh you know you could argue about is it substantial I think to her it's going to be substantial maybe to some people further away it won't be that substantial but maybe it will but it's definitely if you apply the land use criteria this should be turned down thank you very much and I apologize for coming to L um any other questions for the board comments for the board then I will close the public portion do you have anything else no okay uh that close the public portion uh board members what your I I think the biggest issue here is what um the attorney said which is that there is no land use reason um that that we can grant this um you know I've been on this board for many years and I was under the impression that an applicant needs to provide you know an appropriate land use reason in order for us to be able to Grant a variance so I I don't think it necessarily you know our board's attorney could correct me if I'm wrong I don't think it even necessarily depends on how we feel about it overall if we're if we're not you know having that land use criteria you know for a variance met I I just don't I don't you know I don't I don't even see kind of how it I mean I guess it can go to a vote but um you know I think that that's my big issue right now um you know beyond beyond anything else so I would agree with the comments you've made you know one thing further when I think of from a C1 perspective which is obviously a hardship uh that that those proofs have not been metad at all uh and even from a C2 I would say this fails um you know to say that doing this in consideration of what the neighbors have to look at and endure uh is certainly not Ben deficient to the master plan or zoning plan to start covering tennis courts the the other thing too is we say tennis court but you know I'm saying it a picture here and it looks like everything but tennis is going on here we've had now basketball going on and everything else and I don't know if that was the original intent of having a tennis cour built on the property is to now use it for everything else other than tennis so I think as as us as over the years migrate this is a great example of it we've been now talking at nauseum about the next use the next use well it started as a tennis court and look now what it's migrating into now let's put a roof on that let's migrate into something else so what the original application was for is now being completely distorted into a a completely different use which I'm not really sure is beneficial also under a C2 perspective where we're constantly adapting a use to suit that owner and now we're going to cover it and adapt it again so I don't really think that's beneficial to the master plan zoning plan so and the likes as far as I'm concerned are a nonstarter because that once again takes this use and intensifies it even more so we started playing tennis on nice days now we're playing soccer and basketball and doing all this other stuff and now we're going to put top on it and make it be able to use all the time and then we're illuminated so where we normally wouldn't have been using it at all now we're going to be able to use this thing essentially 247 I don't think that's beneficial so I would not um I would not be in favor this application I agree completely with those comments me too I do as well and I've sat on this board um on cases brother Sports courts with things like as basketball and and we turn it down every um we would' like then can I have a motion to open up to the public please in a second second goad sorry um we'd like to carry the matter I have to talk with my clients it's going to take more than just a few minutes we'd like the benefit of coming back at the next available meeting to do so well we're throw you on to 113 okay because at this point we have not adopted the calendar sure um yes coun I would object to that I mean they've presented an application it's been debated we do we do give the option to to uh come back at a later date if they want to revise their plan that's not unreasonable well I think you can deny it and obviously they are always free no because we're not going to get involved to a AR you toata a situation here so if if they come back if frankly they can do a lot of different things and that's up to them but as the application stands clearly they're not moving forward with it right so they're going to have to make adjustments or do whatever they want to do or not do I mean it's up to them but as for voting on it no we don't force a vote we don't force a vote okay so with that we'll be carrying it to one 13 there'll be no further notice there's nothing forward more from the crowd uh can I gu a question no not this point um and we're going to um there'll be no further notice unless um there's any other vires that change okay fair enough thank you very much thank you for your time I I would assume if they're going to come back they're going to change the the plan again somehow they're going to make some changes um we don't know all right right and and and if that is the case it would behoove Mr beo to reach out to you there you go exactly so so okay thank you very much thank you very much can I sorry I was thinking of going away the week you're mentioning first of all first of all there's there's no chance it's being hold held on a 13 understand so so we can schedule them for a 20205 we have ad oh so it's not going to be no by no means it's going to be heard trust me that's what I thought but but as for as for when it will be heard it'll be determined based on the calendar once it's adopted after the New Year okay okay and then I do get a notice okay thank you very much thank you [Music] thank you um want don't you come forward Qui so before you get started I want to explain something to you okay we only have five voters tonight okay you need a clean Suite okay so those aren't great odds so I just want to make sure you're comfortable moving forward sure knowing that you need five five okay we'll do our best Okay g be back in a second and can I say thank you and I'm sorry I don't know all the laws you did great you did great no you did great hard to find things and I have I just have to say I was a terrific he in trying to we were looking for a picture no you did a fantastic [Music] job okay so for the record there's no one else in the audience except for the applicant and the applicants uh AR protect so we'll move forward um you were both sworn in yes okay so uh please proceed with your testimony so we here for 34 Winding Way mbour uh New Jersey project uh I went over the variances I can go over again um I have got all the drawings are with each one of you I we have the exhibits I would like to get your attention on the exhibit a-2 E and F I'm sorry page A2 or exhibit exhibit already marked those are those are part of the drawing so I think these were you yes page I think it's just she has them yes yes yeah so we can so the last two basically the a-2 E and A- 2f so I want to go over um couple of additional um houses that we added to the exhibit our previous exhibit those are the 29 Winding Way um so this is the house where uh variance was applied and approved on January 22nd 20124 and they're exceeding the F to 37% uh increasing the square footage to 3595 squ sorry what was the deviation on the percentage you said um so we have es for the sight setback up to 18 ft uh another deviation for the site setback for structures over 18 ft required is 10.28 provided is 7.6 7 fe6 in no no that's on yours I'm talking did you mention another house did you yeah what was the what was the deviation of percentage of your F on that property that you calculated um it was a 1% deviation 36 is so it was 36 they requested 37 yeah yes um so on the second page which is the exhibit a-2 f it has uh 40 Winding Way Milbourne the U existing it has a picture also next to it f is 46.4 and that is the square footage which we found on Zillow 4,456 U maximum allowable for R6 is 36% so it's 16.8% more um I'm not sure Zill if it's Zillow we can't use we can't use Zillow because it's there's it's a relatively new house there's no way that's they probably included basement right so so you have you stly have to go because Zillow usually includes basement yeah okay that's typically what they do so you would have to strictly go off the actual property card that's at Town Hall so if that property does not have a card on it yet then we can't include that the house looks bigger than that's anal we have to look at your your data has to be based on okay actual the tax cards and you know versus the property so it has to be defin dat it can't be on Zill and then the 38 Winding Way has a proposed F of 28% which is 5368 um allowable is 36% so um and these sites are smaller um if you look at two Winding Way the site is 8,145 um for is 9,596 so these are smaller sites and they are um they built so so you're saying what was that second amount you said was on that property what was the square footage um on 4 winding we yeah it was um the F of 46.4% no not that that's the one you're talking about that us to go Zillow yeah forget that one that property we get the 38 Winding Way right what size the lot it was 19,000 that 38 Winding Way is 19,00 1,168 ft which is um which is more than the allow just like this house yeah you're almost twice the right so ours is our site is 11,20 minim right but we have an unusual condition if you look at the site plan the site is is tapering at the back we have a eement 15 ft eement at the back we have this portion entire onethird of the siite is sloping down right but that's not that's not you still get used to that part of your F calculation right right so that's your that's adding to the F but not but making it kind of worse for the S setbacks because oh side setback yes I thought we were talking about F I'm sorry yeah f is I think one component of the variance We have basically the sidey variances also besides the F right but since you only have five voters here tonight I want to make sure you get that F in the end zone okay because the other variances are C variances yeah you only have to get the majority so three of us but that's why I want to make sure you have a a proper record on this F that you can justify the size of your lot versus you know you you don't have a hardship right here so I want to point out to one fact we don't have a car garage there's why don't you have a so so that that's another story there was one which was before uh they had bought the property right so your your house now has the benefit of a garage now being livable space it was done and that was also done obviously against the ordinance because the garage ordinance has existed for many many years so while that is a detriment in some cases it's now a benefit in others so I'm not really sure that that I mean with the result of that that there is no car garage so that kind of appreciates the value of the property because as for the ordinance every house must have a car garage that's like a minimum condition Unfortunately they uh they bought the property with the situation where there was no car garage and they were basically the situation was grandfather to them than uh completely demoing it and taking it and redoing it so you're saying that they bought the property without it having a garage or they took over the property converted theage intoing they didn't so I mean he can say that too but uh when they bought the property there was no car garage it was previous and what has H had happened as U I think 2000 uh the previous homeowner had filed a permit for a detached garage in I believe in 2005 but the garage was never built there so I mean G prit went back to the town he looked over what was filed in the past and and that was the situation so so if you were to add just a garage to this house what would it do to your f it would still increase it by how much so um so it's um what we are asking is 606 which is basically 303 303 every level and um we asking for 5.1 uh% more than what's allowed I think 2.5 on my question the question is if you were to just do the garage it be 2.5 yeah okay if you're just to do the garage could you move it back further so you're not at 7.6 or whatever it was making it back further there's a the slope the Deep slope starts from here so the Deep slope it basically starts where the walkway is there's an existing driveway here right now and this is basically resting on that driveway so we not affecting the impervious coverage because it's sitting on the existing driveway um so moving it back would basically um affect the in and out of the axis from the house we have a small deck at the back and that's the way you come out so it's basically a walkway at the back we basically aligning it with the back of the house no I get all that I'm get your picture here which is exhibit A2 B and it looks like there's more room there to move the garage back which would alleviate some of your I don't think um so are you talking about the curve portion yeah here so have all this like as goes all the way back we're building basically aligning it with the end of the house yeah the picture is taken as if like it's basically it's in perspective so um but we're not going any further from the house we're just ending it there and this is very nominal it's 13 ft wide U I know typically it's like 20 by 20 two car garage or 20 by 18 is like the minimum standard we are doing the minimum minimum we can for just accommodating at least one car garage but you're also putting uh so that's a that's a room above it yes yes um and um so what we also did is if you look at the elevations um I know you had concerns about the privacy of the neighbor uh what we did is we minimize the number of vend we minimize the number of Windows and we raise the height for those windows the fixed window so that the vision it doesn't affect the the privacy of the neighbors it's uh about about 8 ft from the floor level so obviously the um that won't get affected we changed the windows to double hung um and uh we slightly reduced also the F on the top earlier it was caner by 2 ft we made it in line with the uh the ground the first floor so three or3 on the first floor three or3 on the Upper Floor um windows are just U I couldn't call it as a sun room because sunro would have at least 60% of the walls for glazing I had to call it as a back room to um answer that definition but yeah we did address the the concern about the neighbor by giving higher windows on that side which faces the neighbor this is the elevation at the back side um that's just to Juliet Balcony uh more for the glazing the light and ventilation so I'm sorry how how high up are the windows from the floor in the W room um about 2 feet F inch on the side for the level um here we have the one it's the same s level tell that's just some I'm old I can't see so is that is that the back of the house you're pointing to yes that's the door uh those are hinged doors that open on the inside of the room and then the next to the hinge door are the windows now what about on the side it's next to the neighbor so this is the side which is next to the neighbor the windows have a seill level of about 8 ft it has a cath you're standing in that room you you can't like look out right just the sun is just yeah and just they can okay they can use that blank wall for so that's very helpful in terms of the sun I mean I I just I think the concern for me is really with the F you're already maxed out you know you to Craigs Point got the advantage of not having the garage I understand why you want a garage and the ordinance requires a garage but it does feel a little bit like um you're taking more than that you're taking more than what you need for the garage and for reasons I understand but that's not really our herview so that's really my concern but I you know I was others may have questions any other questions um do you any other testimonies um so um under the negative criteria I want to go over it won't increase the traffic to the property um it's going to be the cars were parked outside now they're getting a space to park the one car at least um it's not going to hurt the property value it would increase the property value it's going to be make the Aesthetics of the house localist more better with the um with the addition um the drainage issues also were thought um we have a huge slope at the back so rainwater the gutters would drain towards the the back not towards the neighbors and in the front it would get connected with the uh the storm water line that the main uh public sewer is going it would get connected to that um in conclusion I think we're proposing a moderate side addition and um and hope the board considers that okay thank you thank you uh close public portion uh board members what are your thoughts well again I I I I mean I I certainly understand what's trying to be done here and I do think you are trying to do it in is um less uh encroaching a way as you can with respect to the neighborhood you have a somewhat large house uh in the neighborhood just driving in that neighborhood and looking at the other homes I do think that putting a two-story structure on the side of the house will make the house even larger um and so I have some trouble uh kind of with the sunum idea I I'm sympathetic on the garage it is I understand why you can't go back further to Craig's question but um you know I I think it would probably um look less imposing in the neighborhood if there were just a single story but so I I would agree with that to take it one step further I'm not really sure well a couple things number one it's one thing to have a garage to single story structure that's seven and a half ft off the property line but now when you double the size of that and now the whole structure is essentially s feet off the property line it makes it far more imposing that's number one number two you have an way oversized lot you're almost 2x The Zone requirement and it this isn't if you know the one example you brought us was 1% over like that's sort of what I see on this slot even even that is hard to justify based on the fact that this lot is so enormous and we're still going over the f I don't think you've met the criteria there's no hardship here can I can I no okay uh the public course is Clos uh I don't think you've met the criteria in the testimony for it so far okay from a C1 perspective you don't have a hardship okay you could argue the hardship for the the setbacks based on the sort of piie shape or whatever you want to call that property but for the S I haven't heard any compelling information other than saying we just want a room on top of the garage and going back to what Gary reiterated is the fact that this house had a garage and now we use that as internal space which adds value to the house because it's a bigger house and now we want to slap a garage back on the outside of it creating more you know relief requests for something we already had and I would argue that a garage it's a side entry garage is better for the neighborhood than a forward facing garage I realize forward facing garage are permitted in the zone but given the size of this property if it was able to have a side end or a garage it would be far more attractive hence not having side set setback issues so that being said I would not be in favor of this application the way it's currently presented I to I I I would agree um I I think I I don't think it's right to penalize the applicant for moving into a house where the garage was taken out so I really don't have a problem with the applicant wanting to add on a garage and it does benefit um you know our town ordinances because um you plan because all houses are supposed to have a garage but I can't see any justification for this massive um D variance you know with a 5.3% you know variance request um on a house that's already on an oversized lot I mean I just I can't think of another time that we've granted that there's just no justification here for that part of it the garage I I don't have an issue with say I agree with all their comments and I appreciate what you've done with the windows to try and uh meet the need of the neighbor it's just that it's so close to the property line and it's such a big structure to m would be I think obvious and um not fit in the neighborhood so as we did I would I'm assuming I agree with Jesse okay so so um that being said um you you obviously don't have the votes to get the F done okay so would you like to come back as we offer you that second bite of the Apple um and take another look at this um can I get two minutes to just talk toad so would the board be okay if we just ask for one car garage well you You' have to reapply with that I mean I can't I can't answer for what the board set things because we'd have to first see how it draws out what it looks like what you do with your roof lines also what finally the numbers look like so so I would highly recommend that that you put together a plan you know with with that aesthetic and see where it goes so going back to the numbers uh for the setbacks and the F all the variances would still be get would get kicked in because the F would still get exceeded uh what is showing up is 5.1% but still it would be half of it so let's say 2 2.5% would still get triggered the setbacks would still get triggered because for one car once again F doesn't just speak to numbers it speaks to massing and if you drive around this town I guarantee if I took your tour on it and I said and I asked you is that house over f is that house you'll get it right every time the ones that are over F so it speaks to massing so it's not necessarily the numbers per se as much as when you have these numbers and you have these deviations it all of a sudden you drive past the house like whoa that's big it just doesn't look right in the lot right so how you justify that is up to you but less is always right I do understand that I completely agree uh with all your concerns but um in terms of the square footage what I'm trying to say I understand the massing part of it it would be but what I'm trying to say is it would be still a on story uh because a garage not having it's not having garage a hardship it is right so we would like to come back with the some changes yeah okay so once again we're going to throw you under the 13th that's just a marker you're not coming on the 13th it's probably to be later than that um but okay just for scheduling purposes okay um I will reach out to you when uh when last you heard and we go from there so um once again purposes this application move to 13 there'll be no further notice um assuming you're not asking for more variance relief you can keep your notice otherwise if you do ask for more then you're have to read those okay all right thank you thank you very much um also for the record there's no else the a tonight so there will be no other uh things discussed that are not on the agenda except that we will be saying goodbye to PR next year so yeah so I'll get to that real quick um we have three people we timeing from the board um first of which uh Priscilla um she's uh she will not be renewing uh but Amy has decided she will be leaving board as well um she's a very desable member and I thank you for your contributions um on behalf of the town great asset um very well composed uh thoughts on on what you adjudicate um and lastly I will be part of the board um I've guess been here for 10 years or so now and uh it's come time I think for a change of guard and uh some innovative ideas as well as uh to see where it all goes so I look forward to seeing what the board can do uh you'll have a bunch of new people I'm assuming I wouldn't find out until probably January 2nd when they have the meeting they tell me yeah so um so yeah so at least three people will be added well Craig I would like to say you will be sorely sorely missed absolutely um you you you have been an incredible incredible leader um of this board chair of the board um and even before you took over as chair of the board you have always been an incredibly valuable member of the board and um you know your shoes will be very hard to fill and um I wish You' reconsider but but you will be thank you so much and lastly E I want to thank you um you've made me look good for all these years um and all the work you do and I know you're you're you know the clock's ticking on you as well but um you know at least for the next few years couple years whatever it is uh they get to enjoy you so I appreciate everything you've done for the board thank you appreciate thank you Eric Eric can never retire no one else does it that that's true too yeah so and with that can I have a motion to adjourn soov second all those in favor have a happy a wow