##VIDEO ID:qdh2efd1HC4## I don't know what they talking good all right folks your microphones good in accordance with Section 5 the open public meeting act chapter 231 public La 1975 we advised that noce this meeting was made by posting on the boltim board town hall and mailing to the officially designated newspapers a list of the meeting dates annually indicating this meeting would take place at Town Hall at 7M on October 21st shrew harani here Gary Rosen here TR here Priscilla s here just GL here here um first up this evening we have approval of minutes of September 16 2024 uh any corrections or changes to those if not um who's eligible um shandrew Priscilla Jessica Craig uh what one of those three like to uh move approval of those minuts move approval and a second can second all those in favor anyone opposed um next up we have two memorializations this evening first one being calendar 39123 Mayo Garbo Garbo 146 sagore Road in Milbourne any corrections or changes to that memorialization if not who do we have eligible eligible to shandre good okay small crowd there uh can I have a motion to uh adop theorization a motion to approve calendar 39123 and a second second shre yes J yes yes uh lastly we have calendar 39 8924 alap Merchant uh 241 Long Hill Drive uh any corrections or changes who's eligible on there shandrew Priscilla Jessica C I have a motion to approve that nor moralization motion to approve calendar 3989 24 thank you a second second thank you yes s yes Jessica GL yes yes okay real quick I'm assuming that we have both the parties are here regarding the cases but I'm just to go through real quick for the record as to what we're not caring this evening calendar 39 7424 uh this is 389 Milburn Avenue 389 Milburn Avenue LLC this matter is being carried to 11824 with no further notice uh next up we have calendar 39 9324 the applicant is Josh Jonah Rathbun at 61 Slayton that matter is being carried to 12224 no further notice given uh we also have calendar 30 98424 at 57 fer Drive Von and N rogi that matter has been carried to 12624 with no further notice anything any changes been made in the website for materials of those three cases so first up this evening we have calendar uh 4,024 this matter is carried from 81924 signature realy come on down Mr chairman good evening James first f o rst Law Offices insector first and Associates on behalf of signature realy represented by the principal Michelle don't have a SE Michelle P uh I also have here architect Jim rayal I'm not going to call him as a witness but he's here if there's questions for a sign Baran and we're going to have Mr Dave prussel of sign Source testify about the sign so why don't we swear everybody in that's going to be just in case okay so everybody would just do you swear from the testimony you're about to ging be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do we get your names and spell for the re James j ramal r m n t o l principal of g r a Architects Michelle pce P AIS David a brussel p r e u c i l principal and owner of science L thank you celor thank you chairman uh thank you for your time this evening I just want to give a brief overview I think it'll help the board understand the presentation a little better um signature realy uh was approved from the building department to build what is one of their Flagship offices on Milburn Avenue Michelle I'll tell you she's been waiting a long time to get into town and she's happy that she's here that was a conforming application uh with one exception uh the that Michelle would like to have on the building doesn't comport to your ordinance not as to size to sign ordinance based on the square footage of her building would allow for a 308 foot sign she's not asking for that she's asking only for 48 square feet the issue presents itself because the way the ordinance is written a sign of this nature can't be any higher than the top of the first floor which presents itself a unique situation because Michelle's building is in fact two stories but if she were to have made it some kind of vated ceiling or cut the middle out and merely had one floor that had 28t ceilings theoretically the reading of your ordinance would then allow her to have a 28 foot tall sign so it's an anomaly a little bit we go we look into downtown and as I walk you're downtown I did it on the way here I drove it and every sign is basically above the doorways and that's nice it looks beautiful from a street skate perspective as pedestrians walk through the town it's easy for them to spot and locate the place that they want to go they take advantage of the public parking roll into the town and it's easy for them to visualize it it's not up here they don't have to Crane their neck your town is based on pedestrian traffic and that is great the zone that Michelle is in is a little bit of a split Zone The Zone that Michelle's property is in uh is at the what I'll call the Western end of Milburn Avenue I'm sure you're familiar with it um and in that that's more of a driving destination kind of area we have the new CVS on the corner we then as we roll down coming towards town we have buildings that are Standalone we have a dry cleaner we then have the soube building we then have an empty building all of those have parking lots it's not really a walking kind of streetscape and then all of a sudden whereas Michelle's building is it's not going to be a pedestrian type of building where pedestrian traffic is going to come in it's a driving destination and what Michelle wants to be able to do is to direct people to see her building as they drive down down the street and that's why she's asking for relief from the ordinance as to the height of the sign not so that it's at the 12 feet or 13 fet where it would be between the first and second floors your ordinance requires but a conforming sign that's merely a little taller on the building and that's the Crux of our Cas so my intention this evening would be to call Michelle she can tell you a little bit about her business a little bit about her desire a little bit about her building uh and then we'll call Mr raymont who can walk us through the different signs that are in and around town the locations of those signs the heights of those signs so you can see that there's a little bit different in this particular neighborhood and that there are others examples of this similarly situated in and about Milburn so with that I call Michelle P principal of signature real estate thanks Jim good evening everyone uh my name is Michelle Pi I am a principal of signature realy NJ uh I founded signature NJ around 15 years ago we have eight locations uh Short Hills being our last and final one for the past 20 years I've always wanted to have a beautiful building in Short Hills um and we actually did make offers on a couple of buildings and unfortunately it just didn't materialize so long and behold two years ago I was driving down the street and I see this building in need of a lot of love uh former eyes for the needy and then I saw for sale sign so immediately I thought this would be the perfect place um for our team and our staff and it just just had a lot of potential my husband two years later tells me to stop having visions because it was literally two years of um uh of a lot of work and and tears and we finally got to the finish line and the building came out beautiful um I don't know if you guys had a chance to drive by but I welcome you inside if you ever want to stop in for a nice cup of coffee yes we do serve coffee to you know to clients and and people that want to come in but uh this was really like a lifelong lifelong dream that finally came to fruition and now the issue is that no one see it so it's really covered by vegetation um there's just so much trees in particularly in the front part of it and you just can't see it so we're just asking for you know visibility uh because what's happening right now is people are actually going to the wrong lot because they can't see the sign so that's allk and and um you're on Milburn Avenue and what the corner street yeah I'm nor B go ahead and then directly across from balmore what business is directly across the street from Bal Ro col Banker C Banker so as people drive by your building they then say oops missed it and what do they do they pull into the C Banker parking lot that's exactly what's happened not good for business right thank you I turn Michelle over to I have nothing further on the board has questions or public any questions further what is closest residence to your apartment building or or private residence to if I if I can answer that one there is a residence in the rear of the parking lot that a buts are building so if you look at Milburn Avenue along that strip along Milburn Avenue is the is the commercial uh retail area and then directly behind all of those properties are the rear of residential homes yeah the B area but the face the facade that she wants to building on across the street is the new development in the lot that was vacant for 20 years uh and then across the street is also uh a new real estate office which has a sign about 25 ft high that is internally illuminated and that brightens up the neighborhood to say Jeffrey realy of course in Springfield it's not in Milbourne Milbourne wouldn't allow a sign of that nature how close is the new development to directly across the street as you come down Michelle's on the right C Banker's on the left and directly across from you is the new apartment townhouse so it's not poon and they how close are they to your building are they directly across the street they're across the street stre directly okay and lighting are you guys to have later lighting um there's really no issues of lighting I mean the sign proposed I'll have Mr prussel talk about it uh the sign proposed is not an internally lit sign it complies with your ordinance it's uh it's very ornate and uh will be Tastefully lit I'll let him give you specific Tastefully lit 100% yes Michelle would have it no other way actually it's not it's not lit it's just a solid gold uh letters no lighting there's no Lighting on the sign okay thank you is this on the same side as Walgreens all the it's on the same side as Walgreens yeah we're going to take you down through a tour down Milburn Avenue starting at starting at Walgreens and ending um basically at the wer office but we'll we'll take you on a tour down there so you can understand all of the buildings as we go through please rece no okay uh I call uh Jim rayal as my next witness Mr chairman I'm sorry uh Dave Brussel my my apologies I have a number of photos that have not yet been marked I'll Mark those I'll have him describe them and then I'll start them over here and we can maybe pass them around is that what you'd like chairman yeah that's perfect great all right Dave want to give us your qualifications tell us what you do for a living how long you've done it where your office is located Etc so I own and run sign Source uh have been doing so for over 20 years we're located in Westfield New Jersey we are a fullservice design build and install sign company uh this is not our first rodeo with Michelle we've done several of her locations to this point uh and we've done uh all the interior work for her to this point um and I would like to be able to finish off with the exterior sign um you heard me previously describe the um the sign ordinance uh for uh for the town um I I can't testify so I'm going to have you testify uh based on the size of this building what would be the largest allowable sign that signature real estate could put on the side of their building so we'd be compliant with code with a 308 foot 308 foot sign based on the size of of of Michelle's building and the sign that we're proposing is 48 ft and then describe for us again the board is familiar obviously with their ordinance but your understanding of their ordinance and why we're here uh what are the issues that are presenting themselves that are requiring us to come before this board and ask for relief from their ordinance so my understanding is the sign is compliant in in all regards as as to its height it's it's its width its overall size uh it is as Michelle indicated there we're not contemplating any illumination this time these are polished brass solid metal letters um very simple very tasteful uh as as Michelle indicated my understanding is and the reason that our zoning permit was denied was because uh as Jim as Jim mentioned uh where we wish to place the sign is above the second floor band and I I'll put quotes around second floor band I'd never come across that term and I know what it meant I called the zoning officer to ask for an explanation as to what the second floor band meant and it was explained to me well that's where the first floor ends and the second floor begins um where where we'd like to place the sign I've I've marked A1 can you describe for me what's been marked as A1 with today's date this is a rendering of what we're proposing to do for Michelle's building uh this is a set of as I mentioned polished brass letters they're about the the the capital letters the S and the r are 24 in 2T tall the remaining letters are somewhat smaller uh and this would be mounted on the uh on the fascia across here um the uh the second floor band would be an area just below the window line up here um this area is important to us because as Jim alluded this is a driving destination this entire Street as as you come from Walgreens in the first quarter half mile or so down milour at these are all driving destinations and as you're as you're driving in a vehicle your focus is uh is not going to be down at at street level at that distance it's going to be it's going to be higher at that distance there is Shrubbery there's trees uh bushes that are not Michels to to manage or control there is another sign for a dental practice that is immediately next door to her that would effectively obscure lettering if we attempted to to bring it down lower uh on this on this lower facade let's use A1 and describe so we talked about the dental sign we see that here the or handing that out I'm sorry I didn't print these I only was given one I'm gonna hand it around yeah I apologize I would I would have loved to have eight of them um so Jim we see this banding here and it's your I'm sorry uh Dave we see see this banding here and it's your understanding that that is the location that we would be able to put our sign and conform correct I believe so okay and the proposal as you said is at the higher for the reasons you stated all right that's the West for facing wall that's correct correct yes yes start over here thank you um all right and to to answer Mr trt's Question are there going to be any lights internal lights backlit lights any kind of goose at this time okay uh there's another sign on the building as well which we'll call on the easterly facade or the facade that that most directly faces Milburn Avenue correct correct um and is that sign uh at the allowable um location and height that's fully compliant and is that sign lit in any way no it is not so there's going to be no Reflections there's going to be no lights onto neighbors who may be in the rear yard there's going to be no impediment uh the business is open during the day she doesn't need to have it lit up at night although she might like to for advertising purposes for the utility of the place uh a sign of that height non-lit works for her purposes correct okay all right let's let's take a drive down uh down Milbourne Avenue uh so I'm going to show you what has been marked as A2 uh we'll start at the corner of Morris Avenue and Milburn Avenue by Wine Library uh what have I showed you this picture of so this is the Walgreens building this building has two facade signs and a monument sign on the property this part on this part particular facade uh this set of Channel letters is uh about 19 ft above ground level this building is also built as are many of the buildings that are built along Milburn Avenue with with a false facade so this sign is actually above what would be the second floor band if there were a second floor there is no second floor but there is that false facade under code perfectly client for them to have the sign where they' where they where they've placed it because it's just a one-story building and and in your opinion it's a professional sign uh sign person um is this sign geared more towards pedestrians or is it geared more towards vehicular traffic vehicular traffic looking at I'm sorry I should show that to you it's a picture of Walgreens my apolog oh yeah there we go I'm used to having these before you guys are already apologize I wasn't giving all the materials um so yes so we have a picture of Walgreens and this type of sign this type of location is cured more towards drivers than it is toward this is a destination um location right and that sign is how far off the ground that the bottom of that W is 19 feet above ground and your sign propos it what he uh it would be 19 feet above ground right um and then um uh Dave as we drive down Milbourne Avenue uh after we passed Walgreens uh the next building we come upon is a dry cleaner that's one story tall correct that's correct and again not pedestrian oriented there's a parking lot there do you understand people come they pick up their dry cleaning they leave this is this is not a pedestrian Corridor along here at all we then go to the next building along there which is a vacant storefront correct uh and then we come into a few Standalone buildings as we approach uh the signature property building to Mark A3 describe what we're looking at I'm going to show it to you first so you can see it [Applause] Dave describe for us what we have here for the board um we have a series of of down here of single story uh this is a single story building here's Michelle's um this happens to show the fact that um we've got a bush at a sign down here that uh that are going to be visually obstructing a sign on this on this lower area so this is the view on Milbourne Avenue as you're traveling towards town Michelle's building is on on the left correct and you heard Michelle previously talk about how the facade of her building is blocked by vegetation as you drive down Milburn Avenue this is a representation of what your view would be as you pass the Walgreens and the other uh businesses the soube ETC and approach Michelle's building correct Mark A4 same view as you get closer to the building correct but another 40 50 ft closer to the building okay and we see that the vegetation has given way so there's a small shrub but there is the signage so there is a visualization of the building uh but again your view of it is that here is better for driving which this is a driving destination as opposed to here which would not be so easily viewed by a driver as this is not a pedestrian oriented area correct that is correct and the other thing I'll point out is that um height letter height sign plays a a direct role in how from what distance that sign can be can be read and can be understood sign down here would necessarily be much smaller than the size of the letters that we can place up here which allow the building to be identified further down the street so that you can plan what you're going to be doing as you approach the building now the other thing about this sign that I note or about this picture that I know is these are parking metered spaces along the street correct that is correct now if there were cars parked here if there were bands if there were SUVs vehicles of the size and and and character quality that we see in Milburn that would further obstruct your view if it was 12et in height correct it would now I ask you to provide me with some other examples of signs uh that were above the the quote banding um so I'm going to and these are in close proximity I think I'm on five Miss trua does that one say four this one is A4 thank you A5 1021 24 all right I'll show the board and you can testify uh so what are we looking at here Mr uh these are either renovated or or new construction single story commercial buildings with a a false facade allowing for the signage to be uh to be raised above ground level um again because these are driving destinations uh and are these in compliance with the ordinance is your understanding of the roof height or the ceiling height of these they're in compliance because there's no second floor so so they are compliant signs and do you know the height of these or can you approximate the height of these off the street 15 to 16 feet uh and you see the goose neck lamb so these are L ours are proposed to not be lit is that correct that is correct and this is on Milbourne Avenue within 100 200 feet of of the site also correct right a six same set of questions Mr same um one describe what we have for the record one story commercial buildings um with a false facade which allows the sign band to be uh to be higher than it would otherwise be uh again making sure that those signs are adequately visible for driving traffic uh because as your understanding that these is not necessarily a pedestrian correct traversed area now as we get more towards the wer there's more there's more um um uh walkable there's destinations there's places like this there's restaurants but where Michelle is at it doesn't have that VI not where Michelle is Right A7 again with today's date directly across the street in the same neighborhood on Milburn Avenue again a one-story building with a with a false facade uh and the sign raised up for visibility and we can even see in the reflection on the mirrors the two properties that we just spoke about all within less than 100 yards of Michelle's property correct all right let's take a stroll down Milbourne Avenue as we approach into town oh and uh and let me just clarify in that area predominantly in the in the town um there are a lot of mere one-story buildings correct predominantly one story predominantly one story so Michelle's building is an anomaly because it's a two-story Standalone correct there's a parking lot there's a lot of downtown stores rely on public parking where Michelle does not she has your own so that further creates a circumstance where this is a driving destination and not a walking destination correct okay um A8 at the corner of uh Maine and noav facing the easterly direction what do we see here please uh mixed use uh commercial uh but with the sign here probably 25 ft or so uh above ground level uh and certainly above the second floor band we see the second floor band here on the sign there we see Windows indicating The Office Buildings above the standard and the sign is above that so this is a this is a a non-compliance sign it may be allowable under a variance but in the view of it this sign is not in compliance with the order cor Rel was issues that s i I assume so Jo the point being that this is in the first the first time that someone's coming in asking for the sign to this site uh we continue down is that A9 anything that's unique in what you're proposing I don't needan to this is the last one I I would have been quicker and but I figured with only two applications on I could be a little more deliberate with my presentation loveour A9 again on Milburn Avenue now we're we're at the other end of the downtown as we almost get out where Essex and uh and Milburn meet we see this describe for us what we see this is a two-story building I I would guess it is mixed use um with a commercial space below residential above the sign on the side is is certainly above the second floor band and do you know the height of this sign our 19 is this taller the same or is it less it will be similar if anything it might be a bit less so in your opinion there are other instances of signs that are um that required relief and presumably did obtain relief uh were their driving destinations correct I'll just quickly Mark 10 and 11 this is at the corner of Wyoming in mbour Avenue again different Zone we appreciate that right Mr prussel but again we know where there's a driving destination the signs are relativ larger higher and higher um and I submitted that one already that one so in your opinion Mr prussel while the sign uh in fact does not comply with the town ordinance uh based on the specifics of this particular property uh the relief is warranted uh because of the location the difference in that neighborhood as opposed to other walking spaces in Milburn and the requirement that people essentially drive to this business uh all of those things are the reason that you believe that this sign should be at the level requested correct correct okay that's all I have Mr any questions for just clarify I have more pictures if you want that thanks no I appreciate all of that so just to clarify in a nutshell your belief is that all of the signs would be the same height if you looked across like you me you showed us a bunch um the shade place the this is taste buddy toino can't read my own writing the all the same height as your proposed sign I think was your testimony was it all number 19 I don't think that your no no the the the signs that you mentioned are around 15 or so feet above ground level right says they're a little bit lower so this would be up higher and the difference also there Mr prussel is that those are those are contiguous as you walk down the street there's no parking lot there's no Alleyway those are you walk and there's a there's a a business you walk and there's a restaurant you walk and there's a store they're all connected as opposed to when you hit the Cowal Banker office it then spares out we have we have uh parking lots stand buildings we have Street breaks among the among the streetcape there correct correct from the Milburn standard it looks like their sign was on the side the one that you cited is but the front of Milbourne standard that sign is high or low the front one the one Milbourne standard the one restaurant yeah M that's compliant that's I mean I know but I'm just asking so okay all right so that one's not high just some one on the side wens that yes yeah okay okay thanks yeah the one on the front is compliant we have that one up already we've held back on this one hoping that the board sees that this would be a benefit to the community uh as well as the people who are driving on that just tring to see what's you know the normal thing it's a hodge podge down there I mean I hate to speak out of turn but it is you know you have 119 that's internally illuminated you know you look across the street here they're all at the right height there there's a mix they all seem to be trending a little higher um and in this particular situation Michelle just you know for the reasons we requested is looking for a better height thanks any other questions just a clarifying question I mean this is a two-story building corre to the other one sorry is this just high ceiling inside or is this what on the second floor of the is it just high ceiling from you know is there no second floor there is a second there is there is a full second floor in this in this building and the ceiling Heights in the first and second floor are what eight and a half n fet I'm just to micophone I'm just going to Mark a12 uh I'm gonna have Jim Ravens just identify that James Ral gr Architects licensed architect of the state of New Jersey since 1979 in full compliance and have testified for many boards before thank youe uh let me see what I've marked as A2 that's a rendition relatively speaking of of what the signature realy office looks like that's correct it's two full stories it's two full stories on the first floor we have an entry we have a reception area and then we have a coffee area and a and a casual relaxed venue yes and then as we go upstairs uh there's your traditional real estate conference rooms uh and then some co-working space where you can plug in your laptop have a seat open up and uh and work upstairs correct exactly is there anything on the third floor other than utilities it's just a roof correct it's just a roof no no third floor and A2 is an accurate representation generally speaking of what the building looks like correct yes correct so to answer your question I think of height the uh the we utilize the structure of the first and second floor so we have a an 8 foot high ceiling on the first floor approximately call 12 inches of structure which get brings us to 9 feet and then another eight feet of second floor ceiling so we do the eight and nine that's 17 and then add another foot or so for what the Baseline of the uh sign would be so we'll we'll call that 20 feet is that correct I did my math I think I did I think you did correct yeah so so is this sign at all visible from from the neighbors behind you no no no not at all yeah the angle of the building would restrict the view from only those on Milbourne Avenue across the street where that big Jeffrey realy building is Yeah we actually and I don't know if this is relevant or not but I get neighbors we get neighbors all the time walking into our space and saying what is this they have no idea what what we are um so hopefully the sign will be pretty clear we're real estate office so that's and this is this is constant coming in any other questions sorry sorry to hand on this one so you don't want it to be in compliance because the trees will hide it and just asking again for clarifying is that the the main reason you don't want it to be in comp I think there's a few reasons I know Michelle testified about the trees and the visualization as you drive down I know Dave testified we showed the pictures there where you know the argument of I'm making argument not testimony now uh would be that as you come down from Walgreens you're going to be looking at your GPS you're going to drive right by this place because you're not going to see it it's a glass building there's trees in vegetation if there's cars parked if you have it at the height that you want it people's eyes is they drive are going to be trained on traffic and then they're going to be looking here especially when you have a three-story building on your right and they're not going to be looking to pull into a parking lot at a at a first floor height sign it's going to be a higher visual they're going to need to be looking up I don't think they because the car will be lower than the first so so I think if you look back at one of the exhibits you can kind of see it and as you're driving I mean as we stop sure you'll be able to see it in the in the nearer view of it you can see it but as you're reacting you're looking at your GPS you're not familiar with where you're going you're going to have trees and trees and trees and trees and then all of a sudden it's going to open up you're going to slam on your brakes you have to make a hard left and what are you g to do you're going to go in the cola Banker office because their parking lot is the next thing that you can turn into is there signage there right now can people still make that mistake there's no signage there so maybe that's why not on that fac maybe yeah maybe that's why they're but I mean you know if you look at the photo again you you're you're not literally you're not going to see it maybe it would be helpful but it's really not going to it's not going to be as as as visible at a 12T height as it will be as 19 and you see the other examples of similar situ building thanks this is exactly the application right yes yeah I also marked it too yeah F any other questions anything further uh I do not I just if anyone has any questions from the audience I just preserve 30 seconds so um regarding this application any questions for either the own business or uh testimony from professionals down you got introduce yourself give us your record hello uh Robert Barton I live at 60 met Brook Road Short Hills with questions any questions the only question is um are are we seeking a variance um for a sign above the roof line or is the only part stricken from the ordinance just the second floor line I want to make sure that the variance is maintained uh the ordinance is maintained above the side above the roof l so here's the and then if I could if you could just those are those are over there so here's what you see now coming from the other from the from the easterly direction and that's the top of the building where she would like to put the sign okay so it's not a false facade it's right on the building and the the variance is is not um seeking to be led out of the uh above the roof line piece only the second floor piece is that correct yeah this this this the application is for a sign of fix to the facia not the roof line thank you sure uh any other questions for regard just your your name and address for the record these are questions we'll have time for comment if you do want to comment my Saras 68 met Road s a r a w my only question is what is the I guess likelihood of in future changing the sign from current golden one to like a lighted sign can that be done in the future if there anybody decides to do that um I would have to refer to our Mr chairman we would stipulate that any variance provided to this applicant would be limited to the sign that's presented in the application if there was any additional need to change that sign in the future we would consent to come back here and ask your permission again if we wanted to put lights on it that would be attached to the building same rules would apply take you up on that offer there's your answer that's okay thank you um I just have a question about to the location name an address I my name is Jeffrey Feld 11 Alexander Lane this building is located basically at the corner of Milbourne and B way where there's a traffic light is that correct I just like to confirm the fact that really has not been highlighted saying there's trees but they don't talk about there being a traffic light if someone's coming and they get asking for direction you say you stop there's a traffic light you turn left and you come in uh question on that if someone's sitting at the traffic L can they see this sign depends on the traffic I guess if you're the first or second car just on on mere distance no but if you're the third or fourth or fifth car I think then you probably would be able to see it if you were stopped uh any other questions regarding application any comments regarding the application if you have a comment we'll swear you in going going yes okay um last two questions from the board I close a public portion of this um board members what are your thoughts but I I would be supportive of the application I think given the the nature of the neighborhood of that part of MAV I don't think a sign at at a second floor level would be um out of character or or in fact I think it kind of might look a little odd if were at the first floor level um so I think um uh and the fact that the sign will not be will not be lit I think also is positive so uh I I I would be willing to the application thank you any other comments um I'll go with that but I would like to make it a condition of the approval that there's no lights so that that sort of sticks with the property going forward even if the property is so pors CL at this point I just wanted to stipulate that we would go no lights but I want to clarify that there might be landscape lighting but I don't think that would reach to the ceiling to the to the roof it's compliant it's fine so um anyway if we added that condition that the sign would not be lighted um and that's part the condition of the approval then I would be supportive of this great any thoughts I would agree B based on the location of the sign the fact that it really doesn't face any residence um since it faces primarily Westward um I don't really have an issue with this I think if it did face residents I might uh also not being illuminated I think that's that's definitely an asset to the community um where we get our the objective of visibility at the same time with very minimal impact and disturbance on the neighbors so I too would um would be supportive of this application with the as mentioned stipulation condition that they will not be able uh if that's the case I have a motion move to approve second as thank yes Gary Rosen yes TR yes yes Jess yes yes next up we have calar uh 4924 uh 87 gra Hills Road hi I'm T so who's gonna speak this evening I'm going to talk that's it yeah okay so yeah raise your I hand wait wait do you swear just keep your hand up you swear firm the testimon you're about to give tonight to the truth PA Truth by the truth yes your name for the record tell your name just spell it m a h e s h t u n k and you are in relation to this project I'm the contractor for this project contractor yeah actually my architect also was supposed to be here he has the same same date he has the meeting in Summit so that's why I'm doing this for him on behalf of him so you didn't draw those plans you're not familiar with those plans you're not an architect uh no I'm not Artic but I know what's exactly happening on this property yeah yeah just the architural plans what that do you want the owner to testify it's a it's a variance which is already approved two years ago which basically needs a little the same thing exactly right now the owner can certainly testify if on his own property but unfortunately you cannot testify in any capacity other than to the actual construction of the building okay but as for the variance if the owner would like to to give us five minutes yeah give me like five minutes sure that they do say that 66 right the L of comp from 66 so appr one all right come on forward let's uh s you in raise your right hand pleas s Tes yes just your name for the record I'm Kiran k i r a n batula b a t h u l a and your relation to the property sir I'm owner of the property okay so we want to uh make a new construction uh change actually new construction want to modify the house and uh the current variance uh the current what call the distance from the road forbrook we are Chang currently we are our direction is towards Great Hills Road we want to move it towards farbrook our property is located at the corner of farbrook and Great Hills so on the Great Hills side we want to request a variance which the current I think uh is 66 ft from the far you want to constrict up to 40 ft that's what we are requesting to do it and and what is it now currently as a exist it's a single family house no no no your setbacks where do they currently exist at 60 ft no not whole property is not at 60 no the current is at uh 40 ft the part of the new edition we are building is they from for 60 we want to make it as a 40 move towards the up to 40 so um try to see I get uh so are you exacerbating the problem are you making it worse than it currently is I don't think sobody know has technicalities um so basically um is it the current ordinance of How It's calculated that is creating your need for the varant correct um are you coming closer to the street yes okay where are you coming closer to the street uh not towards the street street the current line is still going to be the 40 from the forbrook but the extension is going to be you know in the similar line to what we have right now but towards our the next door neighbor we are increasing the the house Direction which is this is going on this that's not what you're for no technically that's what I'm planning I I understand but I don't know how to articulate this 60 and 40 numbers is the problem so can I can I help him out as a friend the problem I'm trying basically the current hous is in compliance with 40 ft so the new addition is going to be at 40 uh it's uh according to the law you can only build from 66 ft by we need 40 ft because according to yeah so that's question the same so my question is goe are you making the condition worse than what the current closest part of the house is to the street no no there you go um okay um your home currently sits at uh 36.8 ft and your proposed is 40 feet so that's really you're that's the proposal of the addition correct correct right so so your home still is going to be 36.8 feet that's correct it's just the new part your addition is g to get closer to 40 40 feet to to where you're going to be okay um I'm not going to go into why it's 66 feet because that's just an existing condition and everyone here understands how front a setback is um calculated uh so with that um does the board have any questions for this gentlemen um is there a hardship that that makes this did you need to come in front of the board to ask this there a problem with the size of the lot or anything like that is there a hardship the hardship is only the the 60 the compliance is the only hardship reality reality Wise It's a Halfacre lot it is the hardship is the current compl if I need to completely demolish the whole house is the pricing and everything because if I need to go completely to the back I need to build like a railway track like you know make it straight at 60 from the whole front to the back that is more actually financially and other thing is it's not feasible to do that would that also create other variances other variances and also it's actually going to mess up the even look of the place and everything it's going to M up more so there is no other variant that will get impacted apart from this F and all the other everything we we yeah we are we are in complaints nothing completely complaint we just only is this not under sized for the Zone do you know is it like this particular lot do you know if it's under sized compared to other Lots is just because of the corner lot it's because it's a corner lot that's the only thing it's not under siiz but it is on a corner it's just a corner lot and Corner lots have a different that's the only issue of if it was not a corot would not be any issue okay any other questions and and just I mean there are a lot of numbers here what is the dimensions of the proposed story addition that so it's 46 by 22 extension 4 total there the increase uh just the additional part 46 by 22 then yeah 4 by 22 that's a so make this really simple does the house currently comply as it sits on the lot right now yes no the current one no it doesn't comply at this as it is it is not complain current one it was I think you know the way was built built it was built that's it yeah you're just a lot closer to farook than your neighbor is correct and everybody else is sent a lot further back back that's it right and that's would be basically an anomaly due to the fact you're on a corner lock that's cor okay and once again you're not exacerbating the condition you're merely just building on top which is creating condition okay any other questions any questions from the audience regard this application any comments from the audience regarding and I will close the public portion of this um first on ask is the board comfortable with the testimony they've heard so they understand what we're dealing with here uh okay um any thoughts on this I would I would support this application for the reasons that you reason that are chair no I'm kidding um I mean it's it's clear that this is um you know just kind of one of those one of those situations where um you know it's more about our ordinance than it is about what the applicant is actually trying to do um I I don't think it would make sense to knock down the house to build it in compliance which would then set off a whole host of other um problems and needs for you know for different variances um so you know again I would support the application I'll go um thank you for presenting this isn't easy you're not a you actually did a good job and you know we filled in anything that our attorney would to WR down in a minute so um the existing condition is very close to your proposed usage so um and I actually know your architect you're from my house he's a good guy and um I know the house it was Joan warman's house for those of you been so I would be in support of this and thank you for presenting thank you very much yeah I would be supportive of this I understand that you know the ordinance is causing a bit of an issue here good news is that we've Rewritten that ordinance hopefully it'll be passed the TC soon we won't see this type of application again but um you know I would be supported of the application so in that case got a motion make a motion to approve the application a second second yes Rosen Tru yes yes yes thank you good to the project thank thank you very much um are there any comments or questions regarding anything not on tonight's agenda if not I have a motion toj second all those in favor thank you sorry for this appreciate all right have a good night night thank you