##VIDEO ID:PuPCLj0dZts## [Music] f uh good evening it's uh called the meeting of the Milton School building committee to order it is now 7:09 p.m. on December 9th 2020 before uh with us in the room Qui we do his attendance Mr cohain oh here yes Dr Miranda yes uh online with us is Carrie Hurley here aqu Bon here Mark luring here thanks and sha work I think I know Tim Lombard won't be making it Glenn Hoffman and Scott terak possibilities but in the essence of time we'll get going um so second thing on our agenda tonight is uh citizens speak uh so we asked uh any citizen that wants to speak please raise your hand uh you'll be recognized we asked you limit your uh commentary to three minutes uh and also provide your name and address so give it a couple minutes and see if anybody raises their hand or or shows up in person oh almost quiet Mr Hof we're in citizen speak you thought you may some come in thanks all right d n move on uh agenda item number three is approval of our past meeting minutes from Monday November 26 2024 so these were forwarded out to everybody in their packets um so see if there's any edits or comments to the minutes I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from November 26 2024 second any discussion hearing none so roll call vote Dr Goan uh yes okay Dr mirand yes Carrie Hurley yes Aqua Bond yes Mark laor yes GL Hoffman yes and Shadow work yes all right agenda item number four uh old business um so old business we have item 4A uh number one is review and discuss uh select board questions so uh as you guys are aware we we got a number of Select board uh questions in regards to the overall project that was there before um you know one of the things more of a bigger thing is item 4B which is the msba update um so I think diving into some of the questions that are there you know we're awaiting the msba update on Friday um so I think it may be prudent to just kind of hold on some of those select board questions right now now just to see if if things change as of Friday so everyone's okay with that double check I'll look [Music] on no objections all right so item moving on item 4B which is msba update um kind of what I was just alluding to so uh as we're aware we've got our statement of Interest into msba we've essentially been through a uh site visit with msba they've come on site they've essentially it's filtered down the decision the final decision from msba is going to be made at their board meeting this Friday uh December 13th uh so essentially at that meeting we'll we'll you know be made aware you know formally uh whether we've you know been invited and approved by the board by msba um so you know with um with kind of that overall thing you know generalization of where we're at with msv I just open it up to see if anybody has any questions we'll see on that one lucky for M yeah I met my wife on Friday the 13th lucky day right so Sean if we we would hear formally or we would know formally I guess on Friday right and from there what's the path forward with with them yeah uh good question so I think that plays into the uh kind of next agender items um so if you know I'll just roll it into agenda item 4 C which is revised warrant articles um based on msba board meetings so I think the the main thing you know for us to look at tonight is you know we're coming to a PA we've gone down at parallel paths for the past year of you know submitting with msba and awaiting their decision but at the same time progressing the design that we have um So based on that meeting we're either going to be walking forward with the articles that we've already voted on for full funding for 173 million and uh progressing towards building the school without msba funding um if we are accepted msba and the board approves it on Friday um I'm assuming we'll be going down that path so going down that path essentially would require us to revise some of our warrant articles that are there for example we don't need to ask for $173 million because you know we we'd be restarting this whole process again up to some other number that's going to be there um a couple of the things if we do go with msba that this it's almost like going back in the time work right like six years ago when we reformed you know when you were here with us we're talking about the formation of the school building committee so msba has specific uh guidelines for the makeup of the school building committee which is kind of different than our makeup right now so essentially what we need to do is augment this committee to kind of fill some of those roles um so I can pull up if you give me a minute pull up what those are kind of look through them a little bit P up a quick question and it might be uneducated question I don't know is there no precedence with msba of not starting over of actually using the work we've done I mean it's it in my mind it's an incentive for them to save money to not have to start over correct I know I know I know msba I've dealt before but I don't know if there's any precedence for that maybe there isn't there might be but I think the best option is to wait and here wait here if we get it and we get it then this is just like this is something that's been in my head for the past three meetings I'm like because we've been talking about I will say with the MSB you're probably not going to convince them to do anything outside of their wheelhouse but if there is precedent they will know about it they would likely put you in the same boat as as someone else who has done this before they're pretty fair across the board because I think as far as state rules as far as selecting an OPM for instance for selecting a you know we've we've done everything for off of Massachusetts General law haven't so so the difference that would be isue they have a OPM they have an OPM panel so you would uh typically msba process you interview opms bring your preferred OPM to the msba they approve your selection but designer selection goes through their designer selection board almost like a decam designer selection panel they have a a board of I want say 15 people so that hasn't changed in same the same people but it's something that if you do get into um the msba pipeline it's certainly a conversation that would advise the uh District half yeah and that's all I'm doing is throwing it out there I know we can't really make any decision on that or talk about it just was I guess it's worth checking out it has this ever occurred before inter it be worth it showing them work product that you have showing them where you are and the design process showing you where you're at in the estimating process and all that so that they have a full understanding of how where you are how you got there um and kind of go from there and any information they have helps us go any number of directions cor right Carrie you have your hand up uh yes I just quickly wanted to ask you to clarify or maybe even asked John to clarify who makes the decision um if we go with msba or if we were to consider bypassing msba and going it on our own is that a select board decision is that a school committee decision I assume it's not our decision because it's got to do with a lot of money but yeah joh you can chime in if you yeah yeah I mean I I think we're looking for direction from this board yeah so I've said it at multiple meetings I think it's a collaborative effort between this committee school committee you know select board I mean those are the three entities that are really at play here for it um you know we're doing our due diligence right now with PMA to look at um the cost of doing it on our own and essentially doing it faster at a cost there or hitting reset going with msv a and you know honestly navigating as quickly as possible to reduce that overall escalation that we'd realized there um but you know I mean I I think you know there's you know certain you know Boards of the town that you know we're all of us are appointed within this committee and I would feel elected boards would definitely carry more weight uh for this decision so you know we can give our recommendation for what what we believe uh you know and we'll know about that come Friday um but you know I I I think the overall decision would really rest with school committee and select you know with some input from us you know not to say we're not important but no I just I it made me think of it as we were talking about possibly having to restart and kind of forego all the work that's been done over the past at least year never mind so just that's all but thank you I think you've answered it no no no and just to touch on that too and the one thing too is that basically we're waiting for Warrant articles from from this committee basically which way we're going yep that's my understanding yeah so we've got we've got our one set of Warrant articles if we want to go on our own without msba and then I think what what we're going to discuss tonight is like the theoretical articles if we are accepted on Friday you know what do we need to do between now and town meeting to kind of set us up in that direction too um so you know and to touch on it to car I know I know I talk about it as like we're hitting a reset button we're going back in time but you know it's I think we'll go back in time a bit but we'll be able to fast forward through it as fast as we can you know I mean just through some of the work we've already done as far as identifying sites you know I think it's if if we get accepted to msba and we bring a um a consultant and they start looking around the town they're going to come to a quick conclusion as we did uh there's not a lot of sites available in the town and we've already identified one and you know secured it um so that will make that process a little bit easier so it may as they run through the options that they need to review it might hone them in a faster Pace than if we were just kind of going at it from start okay thank you um so makeup of the committee if I could share my screen so and just let me know if you see this Carrie um or Sheamus could you just share the just so I can see what people see I can see it yep okay I think I need to be hang on one second I was promoting you earlier yeah there you go this perfect so essentially what happens is with msba uh when when you when you get um accepted to msba there basically these are the modules that we talked about before module 1 2 3 4 four 5 6 7 8 all the way through and it walks through the whole process of um what they have you do so we're invited in we'll get brought into what's called their eligibility period and in their eligibility period a nice thing on their website they break it down to you so within that box for the eligibility period uh they allow you up to 270 days to accomplish uh subm modules that they have here uh so there's a number number of things and rather run through each one of them uh one of them is the formation of a school building committee within the first 60 days so the good thing is we've already got a school building Committee created uh but we like I said we just need to augment that uh to align with them so what they do is they give uh essentially a template here that you can see online that gives you know the the letter or the the dra the craft of how to form the the school building committee but the main thing that's here is these designations and these are the kind of the boxes that we need to check um so as we go through these you know we want someone who's mcpo certified which is uh I believe for procurement and yeah we talked about that you don't have that right no but I'll get it if I have to okay yeah we we'll check and if it's not you we can augment with other people maybe easier for me to get it because of the design background well I think there's some people in the town that already have it oh have yeah in I got to take one more class and then I I have mine I need it for my job so yeah all right all right that's good um but essentially probably you know I think for a lot of this stuff we have some of these already you know checked off school committee member we have two um local official responsible for building maintenance so Tom McCarthy or somebody from cons facilities will want to bring in uh a school principal so there's a list of these things here uh that we'll we'll kind of need to craft uh a warrant article to you know take what was the formation of the school building Committee in 2019 and again augmented so for one one of our potential articles um and I'm assuming we'll probably want to do this early so maybe even next so if we get selected Friday I'm skipping an agenda item to the next meeting but we'll probably want to meet next Monday so at least to have some of these there to get in front of the select board so it's ready for February because the good thing is we have a h meeting you know kind of lined up perfectly for this so in regards to like components of the school building committee um and this is where a number of us will fit in members of the community with architecture engineering or construction experience um local budget official or member of local Finance committee which will probably be someone from the warrant committee um so I think you know what we'll want to do at our next meeting is kind of dive into this a little bit more uh craft how many positions we want to hold and you know figure out kind of where the gaps are based on our roster right now the other part of this too as you can see I'm just going to move the roster of people over is you know who's a voting member and who's not a voting member so like right now the nine of us that are here are all voting members as we said augmenting it you know you might there might be some people that don't want a vote in things they just want to contribute and stuff like that um so this is I think one of our warrant articles we're going to have to look at uh for developing so and I'll I'll forward this out to everybody so they have it um uh it's on mba's website stuff like that so uh any questions regarding that I gu from from the selection to getting to the first module like how long do we have to get ourselves fed out to get thing or do we just it's like you get accepted and it's all right go I would we have 270 days to uh to to basically form your team but hopefully you can do it I did hear that there's a tiered entry like there'll be a group of schools that'll be approved to enter in January February and I heard that we were on the end towards May okay so we're by my understanding we're on hold till like May until they take us you know they don't take all these schools in together um they take them in pieces that's assuming we're accepted assuming we're accepted yeah obviously that's where where we are right now right assuming we accepted that's that's what I heard we'll have to clarify um and you'll know more on Friday I think if they accept you at the meeting on Friday I don't know that they would accept you with a hold to say you don't start till May I think once you're accepted from their board that's when your accept that's but you're right they do often times have a selection then another selection but if it's not like it's another selection it's just you're in a you're in a line for them to process in module one you know what I mean like like that that was what I had heard normally we get involved in module two or three um so we're um usually behind the aall but oh you you do typically we get highed after you've gone through all the upfront things you know the msba is going to want to meet with you they're going to do enrollment studies they're going to do you know ask a lot of questions about what is the project before you even hire an OPM so that's their standard process and they do sometimes put you in trunch for like design submissions where like your SD set needs to go in front of the board but they only take a certain number of projects y that will be there the board so long well if you if you kind of miss that list you're P off to the next two months later but I don't know what invitation I haven't heard invitation but it could it could certainly be true but I think you wait till Friday and they will let you know yeah yeah was just looking online and stuff yeah so from from what you can see here you know it's there's the ICC which is their first step which is [Music] the doing things of the way Zoom is the initial compliance certification which is basically this document here that I think you know Nick and you guys select word would kind of run through that would be the first portion then next portion that's almost like a paperwork thing within the first month uh again the next six the first 60 days is formation of school building committee I think we're good on that uh educational profile up to 90 days so another 30 days so essentially within the first three months and these are you don't have to wait 90 days it's you know up to so we can go as fast as we want um the one I'd like to get started on if we get heard of early is these maintenance documents and enrollment certification so really get um some of the documentation on that stuff with Tom and engage with him to kind of go through there and then local authorization of funding submit votes for feasibility study um so I think this local authorization of funding knowing that we're going to get a town meeting coming up in February 2 uh for our feasibility study I think it' be advantageous to again as a second article have something on there so that you know the funding is set up so if this if we don't get to this one till say June we're not waiting till the town meeting in December and causes that lag um so I think trying to get um an allocation that's there that's appropriate to do a feasibility study again uh so that way we have that and ready to go so I think that's going to be another uh warrant AR that we're going to have there so that's essentially the path that we're going to have of the two that you describ and Mark is see have your hand up yeah I guess I my question is um Sean uh Sean b is this something that y'all can help with in terms of identifying what the number is because we obviously had some numbers from Aeros Street for their current design but if we are accepted tsba and moving more in that direction I don't know if that number you know I I don't know if we know exactly what the feasibility number is or if we have to actually would need to go through the process with msba over a few months before we'd actually kind of know what that is I'm just wondering given the tight turnaround between obviously yes potentially finding out well finding out one way or another on Friday and then whenever we have to submit warrant articles to the select board to vote on to then have get to the warrant committee to then uh be published you know all those timelines are really tight at this point especially given the break and so I'm just my reading of the msba language is right we have to provide the town the ability to vote for um sufficient funding for the feasibility study in order to kind of check that box and I just don't know if we can put any number there or if there's like a specific number they're going to look for yeah I would say that based on historical data from the msba we can come up with a pretty uh a fair budget that you should hold and with the hope that if the msba allows you to continue with your OPM and architect if you so choose that number we we probably wouldn't spend all that I think we could do it much more efficiently than that but I would advise that you know you vote for the full budget which you would need for any feasibility study as if you were starting from scratch because the reality the msba may make you start from scratch that is your question mark yeah that's great I think getting that number will be John I had some conversations offline about online offline about what that number should be uh already and kind of the same conversations we as we get closer and get some more information from the msba we'll be able to tie in but we know basically what other schools are carrying for that number the msba it will also advise you to carry for that number as part of your advertisement um so it it's not an unknown entity it's it's pretty available public information that with just the bulk of schools that they've done in the past you historically you can you can put it your finger on it pretty quickly yeah and on on msp's website Mark and the the kind of large spreadsheets I've sent around before uh they give the cost breakdown of all the projects going back like 15 years and feasibility study is one of the line items there I can pull it up if you want to see it too yeah that's fine I just I've been looking at the language the vote language that msda provides right they provide kind of standard vote language under module one but obviously that that number is the the one blank there that we need to kind of fill in there other than town of milon um if we get to that point so that's helpful to know that it shouldn't be hard to turn around that number quickly if we need to move that direction yeah let me just take a look I'll see what the [Music] get I get the spreadsheet up and just look and see yep get to the more recent one sh SC so on msp's website Mark uh they give you know history data that's here goes back pretty far but if you go to the last page it bring you to kind of the more current schools for soon start of construction when they approved it by the board it gives all the metrics of the overall project the first line item they list here is for feasibility study those everything uh so if you go across that you'll see uh the numbers that are here so what I've been doing working with Sean is looking at similar programs that are here similar Square footages you know for the base program that we've looked at and then from there we can back into what we think would be an allocation um for you know the overall project cost or at least uh to fill in that that blank number that you were talking about there and I can again with the um with the school building committee roster I can forward this link around to if people want it so you can kind of dive in see the see a similar thing but of all the middle schools it's roughly you know 1% of the overall cost that help yeah that that helps um yeah I know the ratio of one percentage is I'm not sure I mean I guess we we know what we were anti what we are currently anticipating are the design for the upper middle school being so using that as the r estimate I guess makes yep yeah it's kind of weird because we can work backwards from the work that we've already done to kind of back into that number so it's good so I think you know on our end you know the the main work between now and next Monday is you know for us to kind of you know look at become familiar with like the roles with um the msba school building Committee of kind of what we have to do and then you know for us to get familiar too with kind of the anticipated cost that we'll be comfortable with as a board or as a committee sorry not a board um and you know basically be ready next Monday uh similar to what you say mark to to react quickly so we can get this uh in front of town meeting in February any other questions in regards to you know msba or process if you're going through and stuff like this and I mean as of right now everything's theoretical I mean and then we'll you know if we get selected you know transition into to reality so we'll see hearing so moving on uh we've got item five which is new business which is just kind of a line item we hold so just throw it out there if anybody has any new business anything new they need to discuss um look online see if anybody raises their hand see none hearing none um all right so I think uh second to last thing on our agenda is future meeting dates so to be determined uh but you know for everybody that's here tonight know been checking with Scott and Tin after uh I just want to confirm if next Monday will be available for everybody um mainly just so we can react to stuff John you guys are meeting on the 17th next yeah y's calendar clear it might be the same thing I'll be a couple minutes later yeah I can make that's fine online Carrie good right cool Aqua that works for me I'll probably have to join online as well no online online's totally fine I appreciate it and Mark I assume s is good yeah I can I can make it in person next week just round out John next Monday yeah cool appreciate it all right um so yeah with that I I think you want to go over the well I'm happy to go over I just want to note for members of the committee last meeting we had a discussion about um we we had done a comparison of our cost now versus our cost over the next 6 years and we did not escalate the msba uh cost so there's a request uh of the committee to look at that so we've done that uh and we've escalated the msba cost over the past uh looks like almost 15 years they have increased at an average of four and a half 4.65% over that time so we had provided a summary that shows that cost increasing so as our cost increase the msba costs also increase and we published that on our shared website it's under the uh budget uh it's under the budget planning and estimating folder it's labeled 20124 1208 31 msba draft estimate comparison and if you want to go in there you can see every scenario with every year it shows you that uh how an increasing msba reimbursement affects our total reimbursement and based on our numbers it it turns out that this in year six is where it flip-flops where it's it's more advantageous to go without the msba where I think years before it was five so Aqua this goes to to your comments uh from the previous meeting uh you know when you were talking about the msba reimbursement being flat not escalated similar to the construction escalation um so you know if you don't have access to the folder let us know we can get that to you everyone everyone should have ACC yeah and if you need me to send it to you Aqua you can just send me an email and I'll send you the file directly thank you for thank you for doing the work I will spend some time on it and the M fact that you looked at it um makes me really happy thank you and any questions on it just let me know reach out through Sean or send me an email copy Sean on it and I'm happy to answer any questions you have so the the simple go ahead Aqua we'll do thank you so the simple thing I just when does escalation stop never no but I mean when we award a contract for construction we we have allowing them to escalate after so once we sign the contract escalation stops so so that that that's actually a good point because it plays into how Peter did the at the estimate too because remember he estimated it to the bid award date and assumed contractors would carry their that's correct so the way estimators have different theories of how they do estimations some and even the MSB template says estimates a midpoint of construction PMC does not do that they estimate the bid time because what they figure is at bid time that contractor is assuming some sort of escalation with their own contract but when they bid it they're locking in their price at the beginning on day one so once you bid your contract that's where your esal cost so and it's also an interesting point to remember that with the msba your Grant is locked in when you sign your project scope and budget agreement which is right around like SD SD dat right before you go for the full budget vote so you lock that price in the msba locks in their reimbursement rate and if it takes you usually it's about 16 18 months that of design before you get designing bidding all this stuff before you get a contractor locked in if it takes you longer than that you are you're dealing with escalation and you're not getting any more money from the msba so it is kind of a balance of when that gets locked in and when you lock in the msba reimbursement R Grant to when you lock in your contractor pricing so obviously the closer of the time that is uh typically the better offer this per right but but our our escalation timeline would be to contract sign basically yes to award contract and that's the way Peter Bradley PC that company does it because they figure for that reason if they're looking at data at bid time then it's that bits on when you bid it that's that number is going to be good at that point yes that is correct that reminds me of a funny had electrical contractor one time you was they they're big question so you know when you get bids in there a whole less of questions and the question was due to the fluctuating marketing of copper will you allow us to adjust our bid in the future prices go up they so what if prices out I got I same after the fact during construction they said this escalated we can all do can you help us out here noing that's bring the lawyers I will say that if you go GC which is 149 hard bid bid is locked in if you go CM at risk it is not you're not locking your pricing until the CM typically until they buy out those contracts so certain items could escalate like Paving if they or Landscaping if you have a long project they don't fit it out until later on because a landscaper May at hold price for three years which is fair that may escate so you may have to keep in pricing the majority of if it's a traditional 149 hard bit on day one when they when they when you sign that contract go they are locking in their price to the project yeah and just you know with the again with the framework of the project that we have now with the site owning and stuff like that going see them at risk probably would need because it's not complex phasing it's basically give them the whole site R so it designed B build 149 would be more probable yes we I mean we will investigate MSP will require us um the town should requires to investigate all options but normally when you're on a new build site that is in complete control of the town and you're not doing an ad Rena or it's not a complic ated project then 149 is typically the most cost effective solution so the point I was going to make too is like so six years essentially that's our timeline for a town to say let's get this done within six years or we're gonna start yeah we're if we were to go right now the six years we're looking at is like yeah six-year delay which means that we don't start construction in 202 6 we start construction in 2032 so that's that's what we're looking at right now our estimate is is for starting in July 2026 if you do get accepted to the msba program that is going to if you're not going to be able to start building in 2026 more than likely unless they super fast track you and they say yep not likely not likely um so you you'll probably be you will be a little bit delayed but the math still works out that it you'll have additional savings to the Town based on the grant yes y okay any other questions um so next next meeting date that we had on there will be next Monday night which was the 16th believe so um actually correction I will not be here my son's right there you already said you be here Sor if I'm here on need places I'm welome to invitations um all right so yeah outside of that I think we're on our last agender item is adjournment so entertain a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all right made by Glen seconded bya roll call vote John Gohan yes Dr Miranda yes Glen Hoffman yes Carrie Earley yes Aqua bong yes uh Mark Lauren yes sh W yes thank you see you guys next week [Music] he