##VIDEO ID:C60e2EHyiio## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening uh it's February 5th 2025 and uh welcome to the warrant committee Karen could you call the role sure we have Tom Caldwell Steve Ry Lorie Connelly Liz Dylan Jay funling Andrew Co Macy Lee Peter man Julia Maxwell Brian Maguire and on Zo we have Ron Sia and Judy steel you have a quum thank you let's get the meeting going I want to uh thank everyone for being here this evening we got a great inperson presence so thank you um just to start out um we there was a school committee uh finance committee meeting this morning I'd like to thank uh all the members of the Warren committee who attended this morning I appreciate that very much uh appreciate the information the schools sharing with us and and the time you takeen out of your personal schedules in the morning uh to head over there so I I wanted to thank um the members of the committee who were there um so tonight uh in terms of the meeting we heard from the we had a long meeting with the planning board uh we reviewed some of um you know the three articles or essentially two but we've reviewed the three articles that they have prepared for the special town meeting in a few weeks couple of weeks and I'd like to have a conversation about these tonight maybe not so much the over overlay I'm surely we can entertain some conversation about that if the members would like but I'd like to really start off with some of the the big issues um and I think it's that the Adu and the S site plan approval um and I can talk a little bit more about um that but there's one issue um with uh that's come up and it's how we're addressing restaurants and other establishments uh in the town with the site plan and um you know there's a little higher scrutiny in the site plan for restaurants and I kind of like to have a discussion about that and kind of see how we feel about the the different standards applied and of course you know the planning board taking a little stricter stance with some of these commercial establishments in the business districts and why they're doing it are they good are they bad so um I'd like to start maybe the conversation off about that I think it's a big isue I know discussed this with Jay and some other members um point of go ahead J I was just wondering if you could remind everyone including anyone who wasn't here on Monday what the issue with restaurants is I would appreciate that okay actually Jay why don't you why don't you tell us okay and articulate um the reasons uh I'm just going to stick with just the facts for now because since I cut off Liz um my understanding is didn't okay uh that currently if a commercial business has an external change they have to undergo a site plan review uh this site plan review change does lots of things including making the whole process more transparent more well laid out Etc but one other thing it does is it says and I'm translating into English if you make a change to a restaurant and it's only an internal change not an external change you still have to go through the site plan review whereas previously if you changed any business only on the inside you didn't have to so it's expanding the times that a restaurant would need a site plan review okay did I summarize that correctly yeah you Men Yesterday uh like yesterday two two nights ago uh Jay and I think one of the the things didn't come up is um you know for a hat shop or a coffee shop maybe coffee shop if they're serving meals restaurants have um uh open fires they have gas lines they have electrical units and if they're making moves uh even location of changing the bar um you've got egress uh uh issues so I think the overall look even though it wasn't spelled out what those those issues would be I think they would all come up in the overall uh process that was laid out by the plan I just think that might have been one of the reasons because I did think about it after you mentioned it uh there's a lot more moving Parts there's a lot more safety issues uh basically with open ples and kitchen and all of that that has to be adjusted it's not like just sort of picking up the stove and moving it over here you've got a bunch of other things that need to be done just my thoughts on that L I have a similar thing to say but with respect to the adus being added to the site plan review because it seems as though to me most of the site plan review regarded commercial businesses and when we were talking with um Marth Hall the chair of the planning board two days ago a lot of it was well this wouldn't be applied to use for all of those um was like sections e f and g that I cited um during that meeting and so I'd also like to if that's okay with you talk as well about the adus being included as well as the restaurant yeah let's I want to talk about the restaurant the restaurants is fine I just wanted to point out that that's another thing I was thinking about no of course but I like I said the restaurant issue I think that was kind of really it's been highlighted to me Peter I appreciate those comments anyone else want to right something quick um you know I think the fact that um we you know it's a town it's a very Suburban Town residents live here I would think I mean somebody could alter their like um to your point they could alter the they could make a restaurant into more a something like that or they could change the feel of it and I think that you might want to have some oversight on that the neighbors might want to know that they might want to have some I think that yes um I have a question and I clearly was not present um for the meeting on Monday uh with regards to the um what's the word inspection that was used when there's internal changes in the bar does the abcc also get involved because if they for example expand the bar um the liquor license um also includes capacity of the bar um that's my recollection my in terms of my background so so the governance by the town is that on top of what abcc would also have to do because if they expand for example the bar right the liquid license would also have to change as well I think it was clear that the again not speaking for the time but I I believe that they basically said that it would have to get approval regardless from ABCD okay uh of anything that they were going to for okay and that's how I see that's how I interpret the situation it's just another level with the Alcohol Beverage Control Commission anyone else want to Lori yeah I actually rewatched the meeting um because I knew that was a topic and you said Jay that you wanted to talk about it today and um there were a number of concerns that both Meredith and Cheryl I think Jim even commented as well as Maggie about the fact that cherl use the example of the fruit Center the plate was in it was an operating business the hours were condensed they did have a liquor license but now this is a restaurant they've expanded with inside they're going to have 100 seats they're going to go from8 six hours a day to longer potentially 10 11 12 who knows what time they're going to get it shut down but without the neighbor input or having a public hearing the neighbors wouldn't be wouldn't know anything about it if they didn't go through the site plan approval and they talked about the the number of people causing a greater impact so the plate might have had people during the day when people are not home but at night they're going to be there longer there's going to be more noise there's just going to be more traffic if it's a bar and they're open till 10: or 11: that creates a whole another scenario it's noise the hours the valet whether it's take out a lot of things will affect it the fruit Center is actually in a residential district that's another issue that's spread out amongst the neighbors you know all of the ancillary issues that come up as result of having a big restaurant right there are not just going to affect the surrounding area but it's going to affect further streets into East Milton the loading zones are an issue the vehicles that used to bring product to the plate were smaller they're now going to be a lot bigger if you're bringing kegs in if you're bringing in cases of beer cases of wine um it's just different a coffee shop versus a major restaurant the other um the other issue I think to consider is is there another business besides a restaurant a bar or an entertainment venue that would have hours open that late in the into the evening most other businesses shut down earlier so the impact is less L but if you're going to have a place of business that's open until 10:00 at night maybe we should be adding a different another caveat than taking it out taking out restaurants I think it's I think all of those reasons and I mean I don't know who watched all of the planning board meetings when they were discussing this but it was not done in one night because I listen to many nights of painstaking Z in discussions with the group and I think the fact that the planning board you know unanimously voted for it Town Council has approved it says something so I would fully support the language as written Jay um I I think you brought up a great example the fruit Center uh now there are a couple I mean there are some reasons why the fruit Center project is covered under the current bylaw one is because they're in residential district as you said and other is cuz they are making external changes so but that's still think of think of an example very much like that but in a business district and only making internal changes but let's say they're changing their hours let's say they're even though they're not changing the outside let's say they're expanding their seating in some way I think we still want to ask okay what's right because right now I mean it's been multiple days you're right it's been a long process the other restaurant closed I'm not sure when in the summer in the fall so we've had a restaurant space that's been sitting empty and will be sitting empty for several more months and is that what we want as a town I mean it's it's a balance it's a balance of making sure everything's done right as much as we can on one hand and supporting businesses on the other hand so if you got a restaurant moving switching out for another restaurant Indiana Jones swapping one for the other do you want do we want them to have to go through this process or do we want to make it easier for a new restaurant to come in I I think that's the question and I'm not sure what the answer is but it's a tradeoff and uh um did I have another point to make it yeah it's just you know we all not all a lot of people say let's have more commercial development in this town let's have more commercial taxes in this town that's not make it too honorous and as far as it being approved unanimously by the planning board I like the planning board I like every member that I know I trust them but the planning board voted to give the planning board more responsibility so great I think they have the best intentions at heart but we are an outside force looking at them and saying should the planning board have more responsibility or not so I'm not 100% on one side or other but I think it's a I think there is a trade-off that's a lot to unpack um what what I would you know for me there's things there was missing in there that I heard um things that I thought were good they were putting some better handles around the process right there would have Provisions in there that would trigger like the zba for example right if you put a bar in there now they they need more oversight that's a good thing right you want more folks that are trained to do that to look at it um I think you know things that were challenging for me were consistency of uh planning were around no consistency around signage I didn't see anything about signage in there there that's a big deal if you think of Sovereign Bank when they were pushing new Lighting in there recently near in East Milton it varies from the rest of the lighting that's in the town probably have some consistency there you go to areas like Lexington or hangam um there's consistency in there area there I thought that was that but I'm encouraged that they're making steps in the right direction um to do the right thing um they've reviewed it and they're proving it I mean it's as it stands I mean it is editable right we can always bring it back and work on it um you know I mean I think this is a good first step it's more than they've had now and um I would support it I think hopefully they'll continue to add uh oversight to these these ideas I think it's necessary personally you know like like member mentioned down there about U valet parking right we know that there's been some times where that's been a Miss at some of our locations enforcement is always something to be good there so that's what I got thank you st Judy uh Judy um I just wanted to make a quick comment to Steve's um to Steve Steve's point of sign signage for any business we do have a sign Review Committee in town and um to the best of my knowledge that's what they do they review signage for compliance there's um so much it can only be a certain size it can not be um LED lit all night um and I don't know the process well enough to go further but I think there's a balance and check on signs um already in place um and then to another member's point of would it delay a restaurant from going in just to have an extra layer here I think when anyone is in a restaurant business and sort of goes big other than your coffee shop with two little cafe tables in it um they they're already well aware of the processes to have have a big establishment they know that there's going to be they're used to it they know that there are you know things in place that they have to to address and you know it all comes together it may be faster to put in a little coffee shop with two Cafe tables and the process may be a little bit longer but I don't think it deters anyone the current um applicant to take the space at the fruit Center is um is not backing away just because it had a one permit Labs they're you know already on that they're committed to having that space and working with the town to make it the best space possible for everyone for customers for them and for or the neighborhood so I would say I am in favor of keeping this layer for restaurants there is um it's a unique business it's it it's not a shopping mall that closes at nine o'clock every night okay thank you thank you Judy just like to thank Jay for uh thinking uh about getting more restaurants into the town we could use it I've been here since forever and uh there were no restaurants that was I think it was um was sorry to see that go um you never went to never went to the Milton Hill House oh yeah I did with my my aunt took me there when I was a kid it's been there for a thousand years I went to a Kanas meeting there when I was a kid yeah but I'd like to see more restaurants in there it's a but as a investment person if anybody was saying me I'm thinking I'm open a restaurant I'd say run the other way they last about three years a good one you and the margins are small and the fact that anybody opens a restaurant to me I I cheering them on and I'll go there eat but especially here in no but it's not not a great business for a lot of people most for most of people in my opinion it's very difficult and I I agree and um we we have benefited I think from an expansion of restaurants in town so many people who enjoy them I know so many people professionally who travel to Milton now to uh to go to our restaurants and they they give them very high marks I I want to ask someone uh because Lori mentioned it I certainly watch them did anybody watch the planning board meetings concerning the fruit Center yes y would anyone just like to share kind of what what I don't know what they saw or you know from the citizens who showed up there I mean it's all recorded I mean you I you can go back and watch them but so it's on records but if you want to so some of the things that were summarized were that there were some expression of concerns about the fact that as Lori mentioned it is in a residential district so the fruit Center is a prior non-conforming use um and the plate had I believe Lori can correct me but they had a special permit I think and so there's always been some kind of a restaurant there they and they had a liquor license and they have a liquor license and so the concern of sort of as Lori mentioned is that some people felt like this was an expansion of what the plate was and so some of the issues that people raised were as Lori mentioned um concerns about additional um noise there is some concern about the patio and having windows open and having additional noise in the residential district some concern about they being drinking on the patio um during the hours where the hallway is open and the stores upstairs so the children's shop and the queue and the framing store and all of those are um open so in particular the children's toy store with people drinking was a concern traffic was something that people had raised um and parking yeah around there especially when the fruit center is open um or the hours where the the gym is open and things are open on that street because people will often park in that parking lot um and people were concerned about drinking and driving people were concerned about um smells and odors people were concerned about storage um and also the loading zones as you mentioned um people were concerned about sort of board of health issues so an increase in like rodent problems because of the trash and the um you know not having proper storage for the trash um people were concerned about having the um the air filters to be able to properly filter the odors and then people were concerned about the level of cooking that was going to go on in the small kitchen that's there versus the plate mostly like sandwiches and things that people made on the stove eggs and things like that versus a larger sort of kitchen so that's my memory of the kinds of things that were raised but I did go to I mean I went I watched online all of those meetings so there could be more but first of all that's amazing because that's good memory right that was what that's not good memory that's like holy cow how many popsicle sticks I drop on the ground that that was amazing thank you that was amazing I appreciate it I that's exactly what they said well done no Liz I I appreciate that you know you're very active in East Milton as a resident of East Milton I appreciate what you do and also you Steve um and Lori oh of course Lori thank you but seriously that was exactly what went on that was very well done seriously thank you um any anything else anyone but I mean those were the general I those were can I give the other a little bit of the other side so that was some concerns that people raised a lot of that was addressed during the meetings so I'm not saying how I feel right or wrong right but some of the things that were talked about was that um maybe limiting the hours that the bar part was open the patio bar part was opened only when the um children's like the um the nutshell is is is closed um maybe closing the windows to the patio during like later at night so that it's not disturbing the residents um I don't think that they really address the parking but some of these things were raised like I think that the um cooking uation was discussed that actually the frood center does a lot of the cooking of the prepared foods upstairs in that where that kitchen was so that was kind of already addressed putting additional um remediation systems was discussed so I want to say like a lot of these things were talked about both directions and um the people that were proposing the restaurant also had like responses to all that so I encourage people to go back and watch if they didn't but Peter this what type of restaurant is going to be what's the bar restaurant say um the restaurant that's was going to go in there um it's like a Mediterranean restaurant like a tapis like a like a tapis and and then there'll be kind of a bar in the patio so that's sort of why they built up the stairs but they would still have that elevator access so thanks sure J so of the concerns that we just heard about this particular project I would say most if not all of those could be raised and addressed at a select board meeting because if a restaurant wants a liquor license they need to go to the select board and ask for the liquor license and I would if I'm going to generalize I would say in general restaurants that don't have a liquor license are generally smaller and generally not open as late so when and some of the things you some of the concerns you expressed would not be an issue if there's no liquor license and other ones would just be less of an issue because it's not open as late it's a small you know it's it's bugers Bagels instead of instead of Navara so for a large restaurant or bar that wants to serve alcohol they're already going to have to get permission from a elected body in this town that will hear from any citizen who wants to speak to them so that may be another reason why we don't need yet another hurdle anyone live near any restaurants in town sure yeah uh live near all of them actually so when yeah you might I don't know you might live down on course but um I don't know what do you see issues be honest yeah well um any and I open that to anybody as as living near one listen there are some pluses right I can walk to some of them right and it's nice to be able to walk to Novar Abby Park and have a lunch on a Friday when it's Focus Friday for me and or to go um you know a Saturday have a easy dinner and walk home that's amazing you have to worry about parking everything like that having said that though I mean you I smell all the restaurants in the morning I take the dog out at 5:00 a. I can smell Donuts I can smell Mr Chans all of it and you know some you get used to you know hear you know because kind of living near the city sort of right but um then you walk by some of them in the morning and you'll see you'll see some trash out on the street um say Red Buds trash and all kinds of stuff like that that sometimes gets cleaned up but if you go early and you're out 6:00 a.m. that's all there and the trash is not you know always kept in the little area where it's contained so there is concern we have uh there's rats in the neighborhood uh we had to hire a service that we pay quarterly they come in and we have traps all around our house right and so that's real and you find them dead in the street I've had can show you pictures on my phone that had two in my backyard um which is not awesome um so I think there's some pluses with the proximity you can go there they're pretty decent um no shots on them for that but it's the uh the noise you hear some of it I mean some of the staff that works there I can tell you when there one person is working because he Parks his truck on Church place he starts it up and he needs an exhaust I feel bad I feel like I should start a gofund me for him but you hear it and it's like 11 o'clock at night you know um so the noise to hear a little bit not that much to be honest with you about that but uh it's the traffic I was coming down Church place to turn on a Church Street they're double-sided par parked and someone's trying to turn in to come down they can't even go down any street so it backed up there imagine that that's before any additional buildings are built so I think there's General concern for parking safety noise trash rodents um all these things if you ask any of my neighbors they would it's a concerns I mean it's they're real but you know they need to be addressed and handled I think thank you Steve yeah well Steve and I are also on the neighborhood of Association and so we hear kind of concerns of other neighbors so not to speak for those people but some of the things that I notice in addition of what Steve said and things that people have mentioned to us and it's not necessarily this restaurant which doesn't exist yet so um but there was a lot of issues with the loading zone people Park on what's that street that's Starbucks is on um people Park on that street and you can't get down the road because there's Frank this one Frank there are people parked here and there are people parked here um delivering food because there's no loading zone there anymore um people have con expressed concerns about the rats I've seen pictures of the rats um Steve has shared pictures of the rats with us um unfortunately and and um you know the main thing is the blocking I think that people have expressed to us is the blocking of the roads and I've seen that a lot so when people have their deliveries and people can say okay well we're not going to do that but my understanding is they deliver when they're going to deliver especially to small restaurants and so that can be a little bit difficult as well so I don't know if a site plan review would fix that loading zone that's another concern that people have that was something that they brought amazing I think there's another concern that I see often um are the you know door Dash and Uber Eats they they crowd um Adam Street you know right near player bows uh that whole area it's you know if you go down there between 11: and 1 and when I tell aork from home I'll sometimes I'll go and grab lunch and it's impossible it's just it's everyone's double parked it's like driving in Boston um but you know some of the Boston streets like bston or wider but you'll see it's all Uber Eats o um door Dash and so if you open another another restaurant there that's another concern too because you know you have CVS there right and a lot of elderly people go to CVS to pick up their medications and you know they use that Pharmacy and and they're out between 9 to noon I'm just speaking about my parents that's when they go out you know and if you've got door Dash and uberit with that restaurant that's another it's not just the loading with you know the Big Bear truck that I see right in front of Navara and Abby Park it's all that congestion that's a concern that's a good call because people don't want to pick up their own food anymore mhm so they use a a delivery service anyone else anything you want to add just about the restaurant inclusion I could just do nothing but Echo what everybody said but I think the biggest thing is parking you know you can't it's becoming it's almost becoming like doorchester East Milton which is what probably what people get frustrated with is you on Friday afternoon if you're in quiny which I sometime quiny sometimes Friday afternoon coming just coming home it could take me 20 minutes 30 minutes sometimes it's insane the line traffic but backing and traffic is issue anything about any of those other just complaints trash or anything we've heard all those yeah Jay okay sorry I just want to respond to what I just heard which is you know parking if it's a space with restaurant a and restaurant a leaves and restaurant B moves in and there's no external changes I don't know if the parking is going to be worse Maybe maybe restaurant B will be more popular or maybe it was not a restaurant maybe it was a I don't know something else that moved out in a restaurant moved in is the parking going to be worse with the new business than it was for the old business um at the plate I mean they are going to expand the you know seating in there so the answer is yes sure it might be a different thing and the plate was a honestly it was just a breakfast lunch thing so it's an evening thing too so going to be worse for those times but this is a situation where there's no external change to the building and I'm not saying I have the answer I'm just saying let's keep in mind what we're talking and I'm not against it but I think that I really do think the citizens have a right to comment on it and express their concerns I think you okay want them to be able to that's my position okay believe thank you yeah Milton certainly is in a unique situ maybe not other small towns but where we have residential areas right up against business districts you have expensive homes um you know people spend a lot of money who who are right there so it is you know like we have this big open strip or Road you know a main drag with restaurants and stores like you see maybe in like Welsley you know that wsie Center they are that big thorough fair that goes through and no residential area near it you know I use that as an example because I was just recently there um but don't you think it's a good idea to evolve I mean we're reviewing whatever our last not this last Mee but last week I believe the the whole liquor petition to have that right have people have those events where they can have the liquor license that was linked to a bylaw or law that was like from like 1934 or something like that I mean all right well maybe cell phones didn't exist back then I don't know but but times change right I mean so you need to evolve our demographic is changing we moving in there's more people here um they certainly want more amenities but they also want to have safety parking trash move all the stuff that they're paying for so I think checks and Bales are good they're healthy and they they're they can be helpful I think so and it's G to seems logical the only bad thing is and I agree with everything I heardred um funny all the things that Liz listed with the exception of visual impacts are things that I wrote down the minute we started talking what I thought were topics would uh would be of concern when you mentioned we were talking about site plans for restaurants but um as long as I've been in the town town has a long history of nimi attitudes not my backyard and so um the challenge for me is to try how do we go about balancing our desire for more amenities more commercial tax revenue um an enhanced town experience um against the impacts that it will have against current residents um I think the field for the high school that battle for the low lower field was a classic example of oh my God this is so important for the town and the school yet people were looking for reasons to object to the field um and I had UD is you decide to live next to a school why would you battle tooth and nail but uh what so really my point is uh and I don't have an answer is how do we balance um sort of a how do we create an environment that is conducive uh to commercial businesses and in particular small businesses um because every layer of review that we add is just another hurdle that only encourages existing players that either have the capital resources or the inside knowledge and how to navigate that process and that doesn't benefit the residents of the Town um and it also drives up cost for that matter which residents ultimately end up eating anyway so um I'd love to hear any great ideas on how how to um balance those two competing priorities Liz so in this particular instance with this particular restaurant what the planning board did was what the restaurant just anyway it came to an agreement by which the restaurant is going before the zoning board of appeals because it's actually much different than the plate now I don't know if that would have to happen in every instance because the plate had a special permit this has to have a special permit Etc the next restaurant will have to have a special permit so the this was something that you know Meredith Hall had mentioned um at our last not this past warrant committee meeting but the one before that that she was here in front of us um at the Council on Aging and she had mentioned that was kind of their recommendation because great Marbella you know it's the same people that own Nar it's the same people that own Abby Park they're very trusted business people within our neighbor you know within milon that we all know and are familiar with but if they don't have to get a special permit then the next restaurant that comes in which could be a restaurant that people don't want to have um would would be able to to be there so I thought that that was sort of a check in balance on Marella um so just kind of to your point the the new restaurants called marel to to your point that was a way that the planning board was able to work with that particular restaurant tour W without this whole site plan review so that was another pathway I don't know if it would be applicable in every circumstance that was kind of a rare thing but I think that the planning board does a good job of of many things and in addition to which of working with the restaurant tour the people in order to come up with some kind of a solution so I thought that that was a good approach that they had that's a good uh Point Liz and like to the you know the planning board and the members on the planning board are all lifelong not all but almost lifelong residents of the town I you know I look at Meredith and Maggie olfield who's gone through the special permitting process herself and I have a tremendous amount of respect for chery toas the senior member on my planning board um and I trust them and I they know the concerns of the town I think they've lived it and working with the companies I think is a really good idea and I and they're cognizant of it and I I think that it's not a situation with with them I mean I could be wrong I could see something but that they would just shut something down automatically um I think they're sensitive to the needs of the town the desires of the citizens but also you know on both ends the amenities versus you know safety cleanliness that kind of stuff so Lizz that's a good point I appre but I kind of take Andrew's point I mean I think absolutely I think that I'm not really 100% in agreement with you although I appreciate your summary of my point but I think that um cross-examining I Thomas had you do want to make appreciate your summary but it was a little bit different than what I was trying to say which was that I think that the fact that we have the select Board hearing from people about this the planning board hearing from people about this the zba hearing from people about this to add another layer you know my mind is not made up on this but I think to add another layer it really is you know at a certain point the planning board already has Pathways by which they do work with the restaurant tour was sort of my point do we need this additional pathway maybe they think they do who am I to say but there is already a lot of processes in place for input and I also live not as close as you but over there and um you know it is a concern of mine and because Steve and I are so active in the neighborhood association I care about the concerns a lot of the people that we you know serve in that role and here on the warrant committee and so you know I'm not making life to that either so I'm not sure I could be SED um my other thought is why are we excluding people who are doing interior work of any change of use or size that doesn't expand never mind other things besides the restaurant bar or entertainment I just think I know that Meredith explained that but I could see other situations in which other commercial businesses maybe also could have an impact I don't know okay um but which ones maybe we need to add them I don't know I'm just thinking oh I mean that's kind of a throwaway Point she did have a good reason for why restaurants bars I don't know what entertainment is besides that but entertainment if you want to throw darts like in the seaport you know what you think that's going to be later in even sure yeah you know I think time but anyway not to be a contrarian here um but Liz made a point about how you know this is a trusted restaurant you know they operate current you know two business to me that almost seems exclusionary of new businesses coming in and that's a concern for me um I mean obviously Novar and Abby Park they do a great job um they've been around for a while but I don't think that just because they have these two businesses and I hope Vance isn't watching this that he should also open a third rest not that he should but I just think that you know the you know we should be open-minded to allow for other businesses to thrive in this town because Milton in my opinion has a history of keeping things the milar um and you know I don't that's I'm I'm yeah I'm not all about that because I think we should allow have an open mind for other new businesses to try to come in um and add to the diversity um particularly small businesses in this town because we do live in a diverse Community um and the businesses that are currently here are not diverse At All by any means so sorry Vance he was great hired my daughter but my thought on small businesses pleas well and further to that point I think is that you know having these additional sort of the site plan review might discourage smaller locally owned businesses so or new restaurant tours if you're having to have additional cost of having this whole site plan review just because you want to do additional work to change up the restaurant um is that going to discourage you know someone who's just trying to get their feet in the door of opening a restaurant bar whatever versus someone who does already have this established business and can afford to do that or a chain right I mean we have Outlaw and I don't disagree with her sorry I mean they're great but they don't have a liquor license I mean that's that's the big difference um in terms of that type of business but those were just my thoughts it's not changing on the bo I think they're great though alario no you I think your thoughts were good thoughts that was Bario's great yeah okay any any other thoughts from anybody just regarding the restaurant issue Jay you have anything you'd like to follow up okay why don't we transition into site to adus on site plan review what do we think about it's okay are there any list okay well since I'm the one that brought it up um I have two thoughts about it so one if you look at sections F which is review standards G site design standards and H which is General Building design standards okay so a lot of these things really relate to as Meredith Hall said in our meeting more commercially uses than an Adu so I'm not really sure one if this is the appropriate place to have it but also two um a lot of these things I think don't necessarily work because I know there was one that said that a garage should be not facing the road but of course you could build an Adu that is your garage that's an U that could exist and it faces the way it faces um I'm just concerned because the regulations for adus which I know we'll get into but the regulations for adus are very limited and how much you can restrict and so I know a lot of this says they will consider they may consider they shall consider um and the General Building design standards you know the some of this I don't think really would apply so I can go through them all but I'm not going to bother because we did that the other day but I'm just not sure because it seems to me like one it's much more for commercial use all of these EFG whatever I said but also I'm not sure that it's not so restrictive that it would be permitted by the regulations anyway and so I'm not against having site plan review for adus but I'm just not sure that these three section should apply to that anybody have any thoughts okay yeah when I read the Adu regulations it says there are a couple double negatives that I'll try to cancel out but it says you can have a site plan riew but you can't have a site plan review that is not clear and objective and you know we're rep replacing a onepage vague site plan plan with a seven or eight page more specific site plan plan so that's better and I don't know what other towns do but this is still somewhat subjective so so so that that's a concern Lori I thought they said that they looked at other towns and many other towns have a similar site plan as this and Cheryl's been working on this for a number of years and has Blood Sweat and Tears into it and I appreciate all the work she did so I I'm back to they've done their job they've killed themselves on these two things I would I defer to The Experts I am not a zoning person I respect what they say Liz um I think that that's true I'm not sure how much other to Jay's point I think that it's true that they looked at um other Town site Plan reviews I'm not sure how true that is with respect to adus though so I'm not against this whole site plan review and I know how much they worked on it um I'm just not sure for the Adu so like for example parking area should be designed so that Vehicles May exit without backing into a public Street well I mean depending on where your house is I back out under a public Street every day when I get out of my driveway that's what happens I pull into my driveway and I back out and have room to turn around because I live in a house like everybody else and so I don't know like that doesn't really apply that's just an example so you know surface parking should be located to the sides and to the rear to the greatest extent possible your driveway is where your driveway is it's in the front I park very close to the sidewalk every day when I park and more than one car that's how it is um you know Landscaping at the parking perimeter there are no trees at the end of my driveway I have a lot of trees in my property but not there some of these things really seem to me to apply to Commercial and not really to an Adu so I'm just not sure why that's there and then having all of these things apply to it parking materials it has specific things that the parking materials have to be your parking material is whatever your driveway already is if you have an Adu I mean maybe you're going to build a new driveway I don't know but Jay had pointed out before about how you have to have a sidewalk both from the you know from the Adu to the thing and then from the house to the thing and then back and I don't know that that's all necessary and you're going to have to put in new Pathways if I'm building an Adu that already exists because it is my garage which is an option then I'm having to create these things that don't exist I'm just saying that based on the regulations which are very limited in what you can restrict an need to be I worry that this is a little bit too limited for a site plan review but that being said I agree with you that the planning board has put a lot of effort into this so I'm just raising this as a thought no I Liz I appreciate that and I just you know your point standing but as to Lor I know you know this this Adu byw is going on now there are towns that have used this language now approved by the attorney general and have put into effect and I know Meredith and others were talking about the gentle guidance that they're allowed with this in the Adu um and I think based upon my um you know listening to meeting is that I think the planning board's confident that this will survive AG review it already has with other municipalities um but that was my memory so um that's where they're confident and I was nervous I was nervous uh at that going through it uh previous to the meeting the other night and during the meeting like is this going to survive um but I'm confident in them and and member two guas um that um that this is uh you know withstand some scrutiny on the state level but anyone else have just on to Liz and to Jay's point R uh I just have a general comment here maybe it's to how I look at government but I personally prefer less government and less restrictions and less you know impact on my autonomy or as a citizen but I also know we live in a community and we want certain standards right so so that's why I I I I don't really get into the details of what these experts are supposed to be telling the town you I don't that's that's I can't opine but I I just think about do we want more or less and I I also split I I feel like a lot of folks are you know we want them to do us right but we don't want to slow down business we don't want to stop people from building adus because we do want more housing like those are good things but we probably want them to do it right and I would just say I agree Lori here I I would just think you know if the planning board's already committed to this and they they've thought through you know a lot of these clauses I would defer them who can always change it if if we find that they're overly restrictive language I'm sure they to live with it if people are complaining all the time I'm sure they will decid to for certain things yeah and I know you know this is what you don't want to hear like if there's a problem it goes back to town meeting comes back to ask me to redo it and you know I think they had I know they had thoughts of that and I think their trust is what has um other communities have already passed the sniff test so I think that's what gives them the confidence um in in bringing this forward so anyone have any yeah I'll just I mean I I've read the state law the state's really pushing for adus they really want them and it's very restrictive that what we can do so I think this is a um I trust the planning department on this but I think that you also like we all live in a community and we moved here for a particular reason and we like the feel of Milton I suspect and we probably want to see some at a reasonable as possible you know 80 years like nobody wants to see it everywhere it's also going to affect if you're near a te- stop it's going to affect parking too just so you know that's another thing you don't have to have if it's within half mile of the tea stop you don't have have parking you don't have to provide parking so they're going to park on the street so that's going to clog up more that's going to be a problem too so I mean I think there's some state issues with this but I think anything they can do H the plan bment I trust him on control to try to control thanks Karen um does any is Allison on there can you promote her I tried to she keeps deing did she ask you yes she do Alison I'm going to invite you to be a panelist again no she's declined a few times Amazing is there anyone who had just a second I lost track Jay want to follow up to that um yeah I I do want to follow to what Lor said I'm a huge supporter of this article in general um I'm going to vote however we work out the details I'm going to vote for it tonight I'm going to vote for it at town meeting I'm going to encourage everybody I know to vote for it so I'm a big fan of these in general it's just the you know little detail or these a couple items that we're talking about now that we're trying to figure out and when it comes to adus I I do not some people said we think this law will pass scrutiny with the AG and maybe it will I have no reason to question that but in general it seems like the idea is you should hold the adus to the same standards that you hold a single family house I'm looking right your design standards the design standards of the Adu should be the same as a single family house dimensional standards don't hold them to any stricter standards than a single family house so it makes me hesitate a little bit to put up this one hurdle for an Adu that's not there for a single family house and also when we were talking earlier tonight about the restaurants somebody said well if we get it wrong we can change it I think if we put in here that adus are covered by uh site what are we talking about site plan approvals that's never going to go away it's never going to be taken out ever but if we don't put it in now we could put it in six months from now if it seems to be needed so that's my feeling Judy hit the wrong button there um so I don't know the answer to this and I'm hoping maybe somebody uh on our committee can have that information if I had a lot of land and I want to build a house I believe there are sight reviews and Zoning concerns during the building process or let's just use the memory care unit down on um Highland just as an example of a nonresidential um building I believe the same processes go through for that um especially like down at Highland uh and they they talked about that um how many trees how many you know Etc so beyond the basic zoning permits the permits to to build um don't we already do that if you've got a got raw land and you are building something that was a question everyone yes Brian you have to do site plan review for a house is that the question yeah in other words if you have raw land and you're building something yes be it is single family residence or um something like the memory care unit going in down on the Highland isn't there already a plan for site reviews in those circumstances yes so if you were to forward that thought um I I don't think there is for a house not for a single family house site plan building department will yeah yeah but not this not the site plan review process specifically no I'm sorry I I just Judy you you were going down I just wanted to make sure you weren't making another Point based upon that point no I was just wondering um how if we had to do it for the the single family house that's going to add in Adu wouldn't it seem logical that we would do it for the addition Adu any I'm not sure I understand Judy I know I think I'm I it's in my head I can I can see what I'm trying to say but it's just not coming out no I understand Jay if if I can help I'm reading the current site plan rules that say it's for multi family buildings and it's for commercial buildings more than 800 ft and the new ones say multif family buildings adus more than 800 square feet restaurants and bars parking lots I I'm I'm summarizing but thank you for that so yes I was just wondering where in the process um site reviews jumped in to um the buildings thank you thank you Judy anybody have any other comments just about the Adu inclusion in the site plan proposal the only other thing and this sort of relates more to the Adu bylaw than this but to me they're kind of interconnected if the fact that we're still waiting for the Commonwealth to have the um we're still waiting them for them to have the like model bylaw whatever that we're still waiting for them on the Adu I just am a little bit concerned about doing all of this with the U before we have that because I understand the reasons why the planning board said that they're trying to get the bylaw now they're required to the way that the statute is the state is catching up with itself they're having these requirements that we comply with the law before they get around to doing the model bylaw I get that but here and again I'm not against I'm just you know I'm very open-minded about this but I am a little bit concerned about putting the cart before the horse as it were so is there a reason why we're deciding all this now for the site plan review and not waiting until after we see that I don't know um and then having it at the May town meeting I think mer talked to this last the other night at L about the the bylaw but not this part the site plan review about having them work together and passing them at the same time to give you know everyone not if you don't include the ad you like I don't know why we have to include that in the site plan review at this juncture right now um I don't know if anyone wants to speak to what the planning board had to say about this it isn't it because the adus can be built today mhm so they're trying to just protect yeah the community so that things aren't built that are have no consideration for what it may look like uh that was somewhat my understanding and you know it needs to be changed I think that's why they were gentle on the language I know they took some stuff out of the Adu they were requiring like one person per bedroom and like some other stuff that I know would not have withstood any type of State scrutiny so I I know they did a lot of work on removing a lot of things that they had in there that probably would not have flown and they added they removed some of the Sha language to suggest you know we would prefer things like that as opposed to requiring them and I think you know other communities are using this right now um very similar language with that gentle guidance I think as opposed to acquiring um so like that's just my recounting of of the issue that was raised I like I know yeah Peter yeah I heard I heard the same thing from them and um I was very impressed with what they had accomplished uh in getting both of these together um I have a lot of experience reviewing uh those plans however um they were very very much experienced my sense is that they wanted to get something done uh right away so that somebody decides they're building tomorrow they're got a plan for it uh I would expect that maybe some of the things that are in there may go out I don't think that anything is going to be added by the state regulation when it comes out I think the state really was looking at really expansive use of the Adu so maybe it'll change but I would say that based on the presentation I saw I think we should say yes to what was put what's been put on the table what's already been proved by Town Council and they think the a yeah the the site plan has the a Town Council hasn't um given the final check on it on that one but as to the site plan I thought that was any anything else from anybody okay okay um we can move on to the Adu bylaw now like to discuss that not approved by Town Council as of yet uh approved unanimously by the planning board um and as indicated these were from hlc um we went through and did a significant amount of um grammatical and other scrier type errors on it um again the encourag language I know Jay had several comments I know we raised some issues about the rental times trying to give you guys some uh thoughts just from my notes um anybody want to speak I do to this Liz so I really appreciated the kind of interplay between our the warrant committee and the planning board and I thought that was really great that we were able to have that conversation while they were here and they were able to vote on it so that we could kind of make some of these updates I thought that was very productive and um that rectified all of my concerns because all of the language where it said um so in particular I had said that one of my concerns was this design standard D1 that talked about the exterior modification shall be um architecturally compatible complimentary color paletts exterior finishes window types because now it says is encouraged and before it said shall and a concern of mine was that that shall language would be rejected by the Attorney General because I can put an addition on my house and it can have whatever kind of window type roof pitch exterior finish and complimentary color palette that I want and it could look ridiculous and not have to match the rest of my house and so for an Adu there isn't that similar you know requirement for my house as they're making for the Adu now it says is encouraged to be and that makes me feel like it's much more likely to be acceptable and so I really appreciated that and my concern has been allayed by that discussion so I thought that was really great and productive definitely made the consistency in throughout the language um are there anything else they spent some time on this I I I mean as uh we discussed I have concerns over the 12 month um minimum and I actually thought some of the points that were brought up by the planning board how you know it's unlikely that people would want less than 12 months people don't want two renters is more reason to not do like if we think it's so unlikely then why not do six months for example um again just having been in the position myself both as a renter and someone who is renting property the 12 Monon is a is very restrictive uh especially if you kind of get off cycle with you know in the the Boston areas generally September 1 to September 1 and if you get off cycle then you're giving people 15mon leases like it just gets um complicated and I think it can really reduce your renter pool um and again if one of the reasons we're we're we're in I mean it was the state has now decided so obviously Milton did not decide but one of the benefits should be that people can have some additional income by having these unit on their property then I would think we would want to help facilitate the renting of it and not and again not and not Airbnb style you know not three nights at a time but as Jay said do we want to mandate that it's a minimum of 12 months versus something smaller than that and I would be in favor of something smaller than that okay thank you Julie anybody have any thoughts about that issue I know Jay spoke Le St Julia reiterated her comments I would like to add yeah so um I mean I know people putting in the ad adus now in my neighborhood that are really not very adus for renting it's actually some people are using it as like pool houses or like simulators with bars and stuff like that so like not sure 100% that every adus is being used for purposes to rent extra income but I do want want to um hold firm on a 12- month because I mean this isn't an urban we're not the city um these are neighborhoods with kids we need people that are committed to the location um for whatever purposes whether they're coming to the school system whether they're working in the area but I I would feel more comfortable as a parent if people were putting in use in my neighborhood if there was a commitment to be a part of the community versus um you know a six Monon because they're you know maybe planning on leaving quicker than somebody who would want to stay and be more active or maybe they don't want to be but I would feel more comfortable for myself um I don't think people should be uh coming in and exiting and we would like them to rent and stay here so I think if we're trying to create um a purpose for long term we want to kind of set the tone that that's what they would really want you know so I do think that we need to maintain that this is a suburb um that is close to the city but we're not the city thanks thank you Alison uh Peter and then Liz um I I would agree with Julia from a six-month standpoint um 6 month or 12 months is not an issue however I don't think you're going to get a land load if you're which is what you become giving a six-month lease and then having to go get another six months and that period but I think it should be a left out quite honestly to whoever is doing the whoever the LL it is so it's I could I not take somebody for 6 months if I I wanted to uh if I understood the situation extend the lease um I don't see why I wouldn't be able to do that um so I I think though most landlords are going to actually you know if I was doing this I'd want to know if you're going to be there for two years not six months or three years or you know you're coming in you're just taking a job down the street and you're going to be there for five years terrific so uh you don't want to turnover is not something you're looking for in a rental unit so thank you Liz in addition to Julia's um example of people who are off the cycle another example is people who have purchased a house are doing work on that house and need some place to live temporarily so they've sold their other house or they were a renter and they purchased the house they're doing a lot of work updating it and they want to have some place to live they want to get their kids in the school system already they want to get you know the jump on moving they run an Adu um and they are a permanent member of the community another example I can think about is Milton actually has quite a bit of people who have sort of emergency housing situations so people who are leaving a domestic violence situation um and so there are people who just kind of going to Macy's point about thinking of the diversity of our residents there are people who live in Milton and are escaping other situations and are members of our community and do go to our schools and maybe for them this would be a great option to be able to have a residence while they reestablish and rebuild their community and so I'm very interested about not just thinking of the examples of the people that I may know because maybe I only know you know people like me or maybe other people only know people like them but really thinking about holistically who are the kinds of people that are going to be renting adus and are those people who might for whatever reason need um fewer than 12 months and so I agree with your point that maybe leave it up to the landlords um but I think we can think of three examples off the top of our heads without even really doing a lot of research into it about times when somebody would want to be a permanent member of the community but would need to rent an Adu for fewer than 12 months and so I'm a little hesitant to limit someone to that year um maybe if you say it's encouraged or something like that or to your point just leave it out Al together and have it be up to the landlord's discretion because the person is going to be living on their property I wouldn't want like some new person to be coming in every month I take it that they don't want to have an Airbnb verb like whatever situation maybe just prohibit that a little bit more explicitly if that's the answer but um we go and I'm sorry um I I understand all the points and when I think about it from a practical standpoint the whole point is to avoid re situation right you don't want to create a nuisance for your neighbors or neighbors don't want to have to deal with the nuisance of transient crowd and when I think about the way it's written today um there's really no real enforcement mechanism right is a planning board going to review every lease that you write or if I have a 12month lease we make it 20mon I have a 20-month lease with no penalty what difference is it if I leave after 2 weeks or 3 months months or six months and so I think the language as is it's probably safe to leave as is without impacting any of the real cases that we're talking about um but the real question is the way it's written or the mechanism that's in there now doesn't really prevent the situation that we're trying to avoid right like the only way that anybody's going to know that I'm using it for airb is if somebody complains M uh or that people are leaving after 3 months each time the moving truck pulls up and it the only time that happens is when a complaint H happens and so the real question may be about what sort of enforcement mechanism or what mechanism do you actually put in place to protect the Neighbors which is what we're trying to or the neighborhood which is what the whole point is because in some ways I'm like Ron where I don't want there to be too many restrictions but because I know people abuse the system the way I think of things is I'm okay with more regulation as long as it doesn't add any unnecessary costs and that there is a reasonable mechanism for exception so if there's no room for a sidewalk but I have a huge backyard should I be prohibited from putting in an Adu in that case I believe no Ian I should be allowed to build whatever I want to build as long as it doesn't impact my neighbors in a material way as opposed to um like nosy neighbor problem right so um so my point being I'm okay with that in I'm okay with it out but I think what we probably want to F focus on is some something that gives the town teeth to prevent what we're trying to prevent thank you Andrew go Julia Peter Ron and then Judy and then Judy then right sorry I was just going to say that um I think we need to be careful about equating home ownership or long-term renters with engaged community members I think the implication that if you're a short-term renter you aren't going to be as invested in the community is not necessarily true I don't know that there's a direct correlation between those two things I know plenty of people who've lived in Milton you know for how many years and have not gotten involved in the community and I know renters who've been here for a very short amount of time and have gotten more involved in the community than you know some long-term owners ever have so I I think we need to be careful about implying that that is a hard and fast rule for uh short-term renters versus longer term renters or homeowners thank you Julia I'm going defer to Brian actually Judy Judy yeah and actually wrong I'm so Sor com but I'll make it quick I do think there's impact of of having this 12 month here even if we don't enforce it because I do think it's a deterrent to people posting and if if you can't post it then it doesn't it doesn't give people opportunity to look for housing right so if people are like I I can only rent for six months I can't do it I can't post it on cig or whatever people you nowadays because it's it'll be public and it's it's prohibited I do worry about that I don't like the 12 months it seems kind of arbitrary because if we really care about short-term rentals like Airbnb no one uses Airbnb and VV over six months or three months I think it's the daily weekly thing is probably enough for me so I don't think we need the the 12 month here uh I don't like I don't understand this language in the next sentence that says Adu should not be used for boarding or lodging I mean I think I Lodge in my house I don't even know what that means like is it commercial lodging or residential lodging it's just like M I think you could say I don't know what what what else would you do with ad other than board somebody there like someone has to live there right so I don't know what they're trying to get at unless they mean like nightly boarding like like a boarding house yeah yeah it's seems like old 19 1900s language like it is actually you can thank the Commonwealth of Massachusetts langage that that language makes me think like we not supposed to rent it to a human being you should speak to some of the lawyers I guess Ruben langu we discussed this a bunch actually say horses I suppose you could put your horse in an ad we talked about that at town meeting a couple years ago all right sorry yeah don't bring that back up yeah so horses on streets so yeah that's my com I think get rid of the 12 months and R says you can't use it for nightly weekly I would think that covers your vbo concerns and I do think I don't think I've hav heard this but I do worry that some some point that if we're saying that we don't want shortterm residents I I don't know if I agree with that I think there are perfectly good reasons where people need short-term housing in emergency or even just that's the way they live and maybe they're economically in that situation so I worry that this could be interpreted to suggest that we don't want people to come in here come into Milton to get into the schools because I I've heard that before that we think that there's an invasion of people from not Milton coming in to use our schools and I worry that this is it makes me feel like there's some aspect of that keep people out I I just don't like that personally so I don't agree with it I think I don't think we feel like that I think we're welcoming I I prefer language read more like that yeah I don't think the intention is direct like it could look like that that we're being exclusionary that we only believe you have to live here for 12 months to be a valid member of the society Brian Judy like what's Judy next yeah I gave the list and then I forgot it Judy should I should I talk or not please do the floor is yours all right I appreciate um to Julia's point in a way I've been a renter I've been a property owner end up in a landlord had different kinds of hats at various periods of my life terms of being a landlord um even even if you were to put a restriction on terms of length of residency there's a million ways to get out of that and as a landlord speaking I'm no longer am never will be again um but if I were H but having experienc being a landlord you you would draft a a 12-month lease and if you're the person that wants to rent your property um says I really probably only need this for nine you just make an addendum that you will release them from the contract of the lease in terms of payment if they do leave at 10 months and don't stay the whole 12 months um it's just easy to do that with a an an addendum to the lease which is a contract um it's a tricky thing with um this whole we'll call it the vacation rental um that it goes on everywhere in the world actually all countries and it it's horribly annoying if you are in a residential area to have an air will do just colge at BRBO um and every three nights somebody's rolling suitcases down the sidewalk flashlights out cell phones out with the flashlight on trying to figure out if they're at the right spot and in the meantime the neighborhood is quieted down everybody's getting ready for school or work the next day retiring to bed to get enough sleep um that is a concern for sure and I kind of go both ways on this language of the 12 months um and if we didn't have that vacation rental options of non hotel properties we wouldn't be discussing this right now right but it is prevalent it's everywhere so I I just offer you can say 12 months you can say six months and as a landlord someone says I would love to rent your property but I'm most likely not going to be in town for more than four months just write into dentum I release you from the contract financially okay that's my two cents Brian so um thank you I I lived in Milton for 40 years I rented for like 10 and and um I always had year-to-year year toye pieces 12 months I um the way I read the law is that you don't necessarily have to own the house the way I read it you don't have to own like somebody else can own the house and build an Adu so you don't even have to live in the neighborhood to do this and you could theoretically somebody could say let's you know take this neighborhood and build adus like buy all the houses and build adus and you can do that and um you know I think it's a very developer friendly LW again but um I don't think that I think Milton is a series of neighborhoods and I don't think I think that the 12 months is certainly doable and liveable and I would rather keep it to 12 months and I think if you have kids in the school system you want to keep them in there for 12 months I think it's works you can do it I don't think there's any problem with it and my kids did it and they went through it and um you know I think you want continuity I think people in neighborhoods probably want continuity to who's living in the neighborhood and I would keep it I would keep it to the 12 months that's one thing the other thing I'd say is I'd avoid using the language in in the bylaw saying encouraged unless you mean you don't want to um enforce it because you saying coverage you don't have to do it so you know versus shot so um unless you really don't care you know so that's my two sents thank you Ryan Peter I think Judy has the answer um I like Andrew's comments like and who's going to enforce this if you're coming in my cousin's coming into town for three months am I going to not rent him the house because it's only three months no I'm going to rent them the house I'm going to tell them to be quiet not annoy the neighbors you going to charge a cousin absolutely I guess I'm a capitalist I think that would I think hopefully um help Julia about six months I mean it's to Judy's point it's everybody's got a 12 month month lease and you got an out clause of three months or six months or whatever um and you can't put that um on air you know you can't put it on social media years an airnb it's 12 month leas so that's what you ask for but you can take in anybody who shows up and says Ione want six or nine again as a landlord I wouldn't want to be doing six months nine months three months I want two years three years 5 years 10 years um because it's easier as a landl is not that I would ever be a landl I had friends who were landlords and I've had to bail them out on a number of occasions but I think that's the way the way to play it would be exactly that have 12-month lease but if you have the situation I I don't understand and I'm not playing against enforcement or against the rules of the town but are we going to have lease enforcement does every lease get filed in the town of Milton I don't wouldn't think that they'd want to take a look at everybody's lease just that would cost a lot of money those are private contracts anyway they're not public information okay we gonna go J who else is it Liz and then you and then Andrew and then Judy okay can we remember that I can't okay J so with a thoughts on enforcement it would be a different situation if the law was already on the books and we were sort of the wise people deciding ah how strictly do we enforce this but we're writing the law right now and I'd rather write the law to be what we want it to be and not write it to be stricter and say well we'll just look the other way I I don't like the thought of people who personally feel like they need to follow the law will be harmed because they can't have a six-month rent out the things at a six month and people who are okay with skirting the law they can do that we're writing the law now that's that's right what we want um I do want to I I think it's true that we don't want airbnbs or we don't want more airbnbs I should say because I was looking just today there are airbnbs in Milton I looked them up they exist what this is trying to prevent is prevent a whole lot more and I think that's a a thing we want and I do want to say I appreciate Liz bringing up the example of people in town who are doing work on their home I've known a lot of a lot of people just in my three block neighborhood who've had to move out of their home for some number of months while the work is being done they want to stay in the town of Milton and that's a lot of people also I would point out you know we' got a lot of universities in the area a visiting Professor may not want to live in Cambridge or Boston maybe they want to live in Milton or Milton Hospital people on Monday said maybe they have travel nurses maybe they have medical residents that are here for a certain number of months and would like to get a small place close to the hospital so um yeah I want to I want to write the law the way we want to see it thank you Jay what's your time frame I don't know I've never been a medical resident oh what what what number would I suggest the number yeah I could go as low as four I could go as low as three but if it's six I think that's pretty good too usually is a year long mhip as long as it's as long as it's not Airbnb range I would think three would be not Airbnb range but you know let who's next speaking sorry Liz so I don't think that the plan of having the lease say 12 months would work because this says an Adu may not be rented doesn't say the lease shall not be fewer than 12 months it says it may not be rented for periods of less than 12 months so I don't want to be warrant committee encouraging people to break the law in advance of it existing um if they want to change it just say it shall not be leased for and then people want to get around it that way fine but it says may not be rented for so whatever reason that is um if you were to rent it for someone for 6 months that's different so I I don't think that that would work and I don't really feel comfortable proposing that people kind of skirt what this says as a law a pedaller in the law as I am as a lawyer um is one who practices law right yeah most of the time thank you exactly um me too many of so I I think that this is not a real sticking point for me personally but I can see this being brought up at town meeing so I'm glad that we're talking about it um but I don't know that I think that that approach is really the best sort of my point thank you Brian no sorry the funny thing is if I were how I would if I were if I could just make a Ru right now I'd make a revocable permit the ability to rent build you anybody can build an Adu but um in order to generate income from it it's a revocable permit so that if somebody abuses the system or it causes a problem for the neighbors and they just whoever it's non-conforming then they lose a right to be able to rent it they can have it they can have cousins over and not charge them um then that to me would be also a way to generate some revenue for the town um but I'm not sure that anybody would I'm not sure the town has the appetite to do that but it would be a revocable right let's put it that that way I just want to respond quickly I think that might be a legal issue because you could be alienating a property owner's right I mean by having a permit to rent so there are constitutional issues to that um I don't know if you think this I mean that's just from my background so I think you you're alienating a property owner's right to use the property in a way I mean obviously there's always zoning laws there's restrictions but to use it in a way that they want by having a getting getting a permit to rent I think that's I mean I think that could be a constitutional challenge um on a property owner's right so but that's just my little side note not saying that you know it's that's I'm I'm not impli it's legal but um that would be no it makes I see like we're going to suspend your right for a year yeah or and then you can't do it until Do It um like if you don't register your dog you don't pay your what happens like well again like there's no I mean you everyone's supposed to get a license right for the dog get a tag but but nobody goes around checking yeah nobody else gets it I mean Nancy has her hands fold anyway to begin with right um but just saying in terms of getting anyway that's what just a my my legal thoughts on that thank you Mason I did oh thank you um in regards to a member mentioned about the Town M be check leases um and I don't I don't believe there is any way for a town to um check somebody have it required that you turn in your lease every time you rent your you have a two family house you rent the second floor you don't turn in the lease to the town of Milton to show that you have um a Le in effect for that rental unit um this is very complicated I go back to just um this kind of a strange story but um where I had property in Arizona everyone had a casso it was like dear and that was for all the people that want to visit you in the winter but you don't really want them in the house but then you know you just didn't want all your friends coming from the East Coast so but there's a huge market for snowbirds they come in in December they go in March um they wear shorts in the winter you don't um you can tell them you know who they are but in in each town and in each homeowners association they tweaked those my homeowners association says you have to turn in a lease to the association to be reviewed and I said oh my gosh I'm not doing that come and find me um it's a tricky thing because I don't believe anyone that's building an Adu for the purpose of passive income um is going to allow anyone to stay in that house without a lease it's a contract it's the rules between the Lor and the L this is required there are state laws Town laws in every leased contract um every state has a landlord tenant um publication you can find either in h copy or on I mean There Are Rules as um Macy pointed out there's there's rights everyone has rights the land and the Tenant so this gets very complicated and I think we're kind of hung up on what amount of time and 12 months does indicate that you know you're serious about this not being in uh BRBO I think they're called um and that's not desirable most municipalities throughout the country that have these problems are trying to you know tighten up the restrictions on them um I I don't really have an opinion strongly about the terms of length and I don't think you are really you know going around the rules if Town says 12 and someone comes along to me as a landlord and says you know I I only envisioned my family being here for eight months I really love your property I didn't know and so as a landlord you know you you've got quite the good fish on the hook you know they they meet all of the criteria that you're looking for in a tenant are they going to Comm in and destroy your property no are they going to you know have potties at 3:00 a.m. no um so you're not going to bypass an opportunity like that and my moral compass in the past and even in the present says you know you you are actually helping the community in a way by having a non-empty property and um providing members of of the community to have you know more members of the community so I don't know I I stand not committed to the terms of length thank you ran more I think about [Laughter] this uh the the neighbors and the more think about this the more I feel like we should put go with the 12 months because I think you want people that are committed to the neighborhood they're committed to the town I mean we are a town of neighborhoods and uh you want people committed like you theoretically could have somebody that doesn't own the house that has an Adu there and they don't really care about the neighborhood but you know and you do a thre Monon thing you might get a hit Professor you might not get a hobit professor you might get somebody that that the neighbors unhappy with for whatever reason and you've got to you could theoretically be dealing with a problem but the neighbors could be dealing with a change in the character of the neighborhood that they might not want I mean it might not be what they want they want somebody who's there who's committed you know the kids are going to the school or there's like um they're gonna they want to live in Milton maybe they're saving money to buy a house there eventually or something you know which is what a lot of people did which is done something similar to what I did um I just think you want a commitment and I don't think you will NE you won't get that if you have a three month thing I think it's not okay Ron then I agree with Jay I think it's not good practice for us to be here in a public meeting to say this is the law but we're not going to look to en force and here ways to get around it I I think that feels weird for us to be talking like that I think if we say 12 months that's the rule people should follow the law 12 months is 12 months right I'd like to make that clear I think Jason this is not the law yet we have a chance to fix it to what we think is right I think people could say they think 12 months is right and that's fine people can say three months um one concern just a technicality I think most leases once you finish the term it shifts to a month to month I I think that of itself makes this law really problematic because you are then renting on a monthly basis and it by just automatically you violate the law and I do still think sub leases are is still rental situation that wouldn't go for a full term I don't know how we Jive those two situations with this 12- Monon requirement I'm not saying we shift it to a one month but I just think anytime you add some restriction on people's abilities to to do something the government should think through what the implications are because you put people in an automatic situation where they're violating the law we may not enforce it but I just don't think that feels right Liz then Macy there's to my knowledge nothing preventing me from from renting my house for fewer than 12 months and there's nothing preventing me from buying a property flipping it and selling it in fewer than 12 months so again going to the requirement in the regulations that we not have stricter I want to say the word requirements again but stricter requirements for adus than we have for principal residences I am concerned that we are putting putting these requirements on adus where I could rent my house for any length of time could be an Airbnb could be just because I want to go live someplace else for the summer um people can buy a property flip it sell it and whatever amount of time it takes to do that that's some people's whole business I agree with Ron that you know the sub leasing it's going to be less than 12 months at a time depending on the length of the lease goes month to month thereafter sort of depends on how long the lease is but I agree so again I am concerned as Jay Ron we sort of mentioned I don't want to put people in a position of breaking the law even unintentionally I am a person who cannot break the law because my law license depends on my following the law I can't do it there are other people like many of us here um I would not be comfortable with that at all and so um this is a little bit tricky I wonder if it just should not be included maybe take it out or maybe just have the provision that it's being prohibited from being rented on a weekly daily even monthly basis and it should not be used for boarding commercial boarding lodging or other commercial uses I think the time period of 12 months is arbitrary um and I don't think it may NE necessarily be upheld in court um because again you're alienating a property owner's right to engage in a month-to-month lease which you're allowed to do um you can even have a tenant at will um if you want to so those are my thoughts I just think that 12 months I mean I understand the community's concern and wanting a long-term tenant I I understand that but if you have a property owner who wants to rent to your cousin for 3 months you should have the ability to do that because it's your property um if you have a visiting Professor who wants to come for a month you should be able to do that um there are people who are in sabatical they may want to so I just think that it's overly restrictive it's an arbitrary time period That's not supported by any demonstrated safety issues or any other like issues that would render I think this bylaw uphold if that's a word but I mean I'm I'm just thinking about it in that terms um strong strong language Macy I'm just saying capricious too arbitrary cuz you know you have this 12 mon like I said people engage in Tendencies at will all the time all the time you can it's your property if you want to rent it out for a month or you can you should be able to and and to lizz's point I can use my primary property for three months who's who's going to say that right I mean and and that's what going to be hopefully larger than the um the Adu right right and so you have 5,000 I'm not saying my house is 5,000 F feet but that's a big party house if you have a 5,000 foot home and you rent that out with no restrictions and then meanwhile you have an Adu that's significantly smaller and then yet you're so restricted by this arbitrary 12month period That's I am obviously would like to see long-term tendencies in this town I do I think it's it's it's great it's good for the community um there's some commitment even though they may not want to volunteer to be on the warrant committee but um I just think that you know you can't say like somebody who's going to be there for 3 months is going to you know use a piece of property um in a detrimental way I've seen people in this town use and rent property in very criminal ways so yes that sounds like a story in longterm ways so I'm just saying I just think it's just like there's no Rhyme or Reason to it I that's why I think it's arbitrary and I don't think that there's um unless there's a justification for it um and I don't see it here yeah it's a good point Macy know we we have had rental issues in this town yeah big rental issues big rental issues of single family homes and what they're being utilized for I know that I know that too Brian can I just ask a question I wasn't here Monday I listened to some of the meeting and all of it but they lifted a lot of things from other towns right did they this 12 month piece uh I I can't speak to this 12month but I know that a vast vast majority of this language was taken from the state recommended yeah probably not from the city of Boston I'm guessing no no no not from the city of Boston so I I can't to that I can't say Brian but um I know that this is this was model this was model language but it is a good point I mean it's a very valid point yeah do we know um more about um the planning board that We Trust basically put 12 months in there um I'm kind of falling back to do we trust that they did their homework and this is the number of town council's going to review it soon no yes Town Council is going to be reviewing this soon and I expect an answer on that promptly Lori had something and then Andrew I was just going to go back to Macy's comment and if you can do all of that as you say and the like month to month and everything what's to prevent an Airbnb then why can't I rent it whenever you know that's an excellent point I don't think you can I mean I I don't yeah I that's I mean that's the risk right I mean so so if somebody wants to use their home for an Airbnb or bedroom let's say right without building an Adu there's no restrictions to that right now um I mean other yeah other than tax amplifications I mean that was a recent thing m is that I don't mean to I'm interrupting your comment but like the is it the city of Boston attempt or have they curbed Airbnb rentals I hasn't that been not that you know look towards Boston I think there's been there was an attempt by the Commonwealth to do that right am I right about that a few years ago I know that tax there's tax implications now and that I think was passed about eight years ago about eight seven eight years ago they started saying you need to you you need to report that income and pay taxes on it so that was the first step but in terms of restricting um airbnbs I had not heard that I know Ubers are being you know like they're required being licensed or something some is there I mean some some towns especially like the vacation ones they have zones where you can have Airbnb in some zones and some zones you can't so it's not outright restricted per se I think it's count toal yeah y so and so as far as I know right now there's no restrictions in Milton I to rent out a room or your top of your garage for an Airbnb so so but then you have this particular these adus that are being very restricted so it's it's almost contrary I mean so it's a conflict you know with your like Liz said primary property and then building these adus so and then imposing a um a period of rental that's not and that I can see that's justified by um by anything legally justifiable and the thing I'm really stuck on is that there's no enforcement that yeah today so regardless of what that reads that you can't have Mi M stay there makes the whole argument over that pointless in my mind unless you can give it give it teeth through some mechanism and then I know putting restrictions on use curves of homeowners rights but in many ways we do that already I mean we have laws on setbacks that are arbitrary right we have laws about Florida area ratios that are somewhat arbitrary we have restrictions I think those are justifiable by zoning and codes building codes so there's a safety justification for when you're building a structure um um you know egress and Ingress like so there's reasons for that but the amount the time for tency I I don't know what the justification is for that you know there's no like building codes where there's in you know safeties and materials um making a place inhabitable um and even you know for Town um for aesthetic reasons right you know you have to be from the curb but like I said the tendency I mean I I I haven't heard anything yet and like forgive me I wasn't here on Monday so I probably should be the last person talking at this in my mind goes back to the example I I talked about you chose to live next to high school what did you expect this is different in that you chose a home and then now somebody else is building a structure that's going to have additional cars additional people living in it additional traffic I like there's no restriction on how many cars a person can own I could have like 40 cars and park it on the street overnight even though that's illegal and and so there are things that could materially impact a neighbor um and so it goes back to not and the term is not the only thing the question is how do you enforce all these and what are the penalties for it and that for me is the focus area as opposed to length of period yes nobody wants air be Abed all over town um that's still an enforceability issue though who's going to determine that it's a not a 12mon lease but it's whether it's legal or not and and and it for me it always goes back to the impact on me and is it fair and if Tom decides to paint his Adu white and I hate the color white do I have a fair argument against it no if he decides to paint it glow-in-the-dark pink and it's light at night and even though it's that doesn't violate any lighting codes then yes it impacts me and so for for those are crazy examples but those are the types of things that I think um make a a regulation fair or not fair or infringing upon my Liberties because thank you J um I do notice that the legislation and the regulations both say a town I paraphrasing a town can put restrictions prohibitions on a short-term rental as defined in chapter 64g and whenever you have a non- lawyer Googling the law in the middle of a meeting it's going to be good so I did that and chapter 64g talks about short-term rental talks about occupancy and as far as I can tell it defines that as 31 days so we've been having a we've been having a great conversation about values and priorities it it may all be mooded if Town Council says sorry 31 days is the most you can restrict and I'm I'm okay that'll be up to Town Council and I hate to cut off this great philosophical discussion I just don't want any more kids in town no school no more school age kids in town um any well Jay I appreciate that and it's a good conversation no matter what Jay because we could save town meeting a lot of time right and the people from Milton cable access filming it because they get to go home early um Judy you get your hand raised well I I did a quick search as Jay did um just and I believe this um the regulations coming through for the adus will allow towns to set some sort of restriction I don't think they look I don't think they're trying to from what I read quickly and I you know didn't decipher it well I didn't have enough time but um I think you the regulations are going to allow towns to put some um length of stay or length of rental into your bylaws and and I'm hoping Macy can who can you um I think Jay found it I don't know if you can look at it I may have found the same thing in a different place um yeah is it um the most recent um mass.com yeah is is a mass.com okay so I me there's the definition of short-term rental which wasn't very helpful but then occupancy is what I've highlighted yeah no I'm just sticking to see make sure this is the most um the latest version so yeah yeah so it's mass.com so it's it's the latest version and it seems like the only restriction they can put on is a month-to-month lease so it's 31 days which is a month and that's all the town can do so and okay thank you for clarifying no thank you for Jay for looking it up the general loss so so it sounds like anything less than that right it's considered to be an Airbnb so you could have a lease for a month-to-month basis I mean that's what it looks like yeah it looks like 31 days 31 days is usually unless it's AR 28 days 29 days um so it's a sounds like a month-to Monon lease is the only thing you you a town a municipality can can restrict um anything less than 31 days okay so that's what appears based on that so the 12 month restriction on that by law is it's contrary to 64g okay let me ask ask everyone anyone have any more comments about what we've been talking about or anything else in these um can I ask a funny question how much would an Adu go for in Milton you think about month how much would it go how much I'm just wondering depends how two bedroom it can't be bigger than 900 sare fet right 900 square F feet two bedrooms two small bedrooms I was just 1800 I would say how nice oh really yeah yeah oh yeah you sort of public transportation I think because otherwise you have to drive yeah I know I was just curious I was just has everyone sming I was thinking how much would the how much my cousin's got to be real that's how charge 3500 I that kind of money bet that's a nice ad you myage I wonder if that's the um that was the attempt to restrict airbnbs will people with adus be able to rent via the Section 8 housing program don't know just occurred can they take vouchers I guess I don't see why not I don't I don't see why not either apparently no restrictions that we can see I'm sure Massachusetts would not have allowed that not insane again you still have the uh you can put your own requirement on of I'm not renting it for less than 12 months of course oh yeah of course yeah that's a private agreement yeah I that's economics yeah that's yeah of course you can even prevent sub leasing if you wanted to you can put anything yeah how much you want to collect before and after yeah deposits see you know no cats no dogs no children you can't say no children can't say no children you used to be able to say no children no children like you can't say no section8 yeah can't say some some things are protective categories but some guys there was like unmarried women you can yeah remember that those days find these old laws let's not go back to I remember that but you can I think there's certain age limits right can't you if there's certain housing is over 55 over like there's some there's an exemption for that there exemptions for that ages yeah it's a lot of stuff but otherwise you also can't charge whatever you want for deposits there's first and last first last in security you can charge your cousin $7,000 because first last and then the security yeah first last he can't afford it yeah know after the meeting drinks her on Peter I've got to make sure the check cash is um so I if there's so there's no more really comment I guess as as to the language in these two um I want to indicate Adu has not been approved yet by Town Council site plan has um there's obviously a variety of options in in terms of voting that we can do um obviously I don't know if there's any issues with the site plan in that language you can vote um as to the Adu I would say and this is just on its face that you know if we were to vote Yes or No it would be a conditional vote on the decision or the recommendation of Town Council or we could make the recommendation now um the only thing that would take is we just have to whatever Town Council have to come back and vote again um I don't know if we want his legal opinion he might be on the town the floorida town meeting and and people might be asking um and then obviously how how we react and what recommendations we make in our comment so I'm going to leave that open to the committee and if someone wants to make a motion or do anything else please do and that would be I think me can can I ask for guidance for you for how we'll figure out the issues we discussed earlier like restaurant no restaurant how are we as a committee going to make that decision someone has to put a motion on the floor you want to give us guidance Jay what would what would you do I guess which one are we talking about s site plan the agenda item so let me look oh do you have a question well no I was gonna I was GNA go for it see what happens for it I was gonna pull it up I would make a motion that we approve the site plan approval article as written by the planning board second second second third okay may I now propose an amendment sure okay I would like to amend the article before us and I the amendment will be to remove the words in BB3 which say with the exception of restaurant bar or entertainment use so what I'm trying to do is help the committee decide do we want to strike those words do we want to leave those words in I hope I'm helping us make a decision and not just being confusing you you want to do what okay sorry okay so I don't know if you have the wording in front of you but it goes back to the discussion we had earlier about restaurants that aren't making any external changes so the motion before us is the whole thing as the planning board suggested I'm suggesting an amendment which would remove the words on the first page if you're looking at it with the exception of restaurant bar bar or entertainment use so if you vote for my Amendment uh you're saying I'm trying not to editorialize if you vote for my Amendment you're saying we don't want a site plan process to apply to restaurants that aren't changing the exterior if you vote against my Amendment you're saying we do want a site plan to apply to those accurate for voting purposes I second that okay that's I was hoping that you going to Second it okay okay as to the motion on the floor to strike from the site uh plan review bylaw um the section uh section B small B3 with the exception of restaurant bar or entertainment use meaning Jay that those um those businesses would not fall under the site plan review yeah if I may say again currently they only get a site plan R viiew if they're changing the exterior this is saying even if they don't change the interior we're going to give them a review so it's as proposed by the planning board it's expanding the things that get a site plan review and I'm saying let's not make that expansion but a restaurant that's making a change will still get a review sure does everybody understand what we're voting on can you confirm can you say it again if we vote Yes we want it to stay we vote no we want it to go away OPP the opposite yes opposite thank you we're voting to Jay's friendly amendment to strike subsection B so if we say yes it strikes if we say no it stays correct yes to to strike the language yes can I ask a question absolutely Steve it's a question so using the example given the other day where they're it's they're putting a bar in there right which triggered the site review that Jay's proposed language would remove that from happening right so if they do that they put a bar in there there's no site review is that what you're saying I'm trying to I'm trying to follow your your idea um as I read it if the only change you move to your restaurant you change you make to your restaurant is within the four walls then you wouldn't get a site planner view oh okay so you the one at the one at Milton whatever you call it is getting a slight review because they are making external changes as well as being in a residen the external bar CH stairs yeah the bar change is material oh it's interior yeah yeah oh yeah right oh okay but it if we if with the amendment that Jay proposed and they didn't do the exterior stairs it would not get a site plan approval they could have 20 seats in the plate and now put in 100 seats correct we wouldn't know correct and you live next door I have a question so as long as they don't make any changes to external there's no side you right that's with in the current state right right within the current language okay yeah so this would give the this would proposed to give language that they would trigger like a review right and go to zba but would the building department still review it I think they they would have they would have skin in that game but they wouldn't be looking at they would be looking at very specific building guidelines corre for the town no no no if there's no policy they is it 2 feet or 3T all be care yeah okay Liz yeah so to Lor's point in that particular instance because of the external stairs that would have triggered however if they hadn't built those stairs it is true that they have not done any external work on that where the plate was in the um for you know in that building what do you call it the Milton marketpl yeah um so right because of the stairs I guess it would have but without the stairs if they hadn't built that it wouldn't though it's still I think it would have still gone before the zba but only after that was agreed upon by the the restaurant tour and the um planning board so okay does everyone know is everyone any questions everyone knows right voting on the amendment to strike the language from section Big B okay ready okay can we call the role Karen Tom no Steve no Lori no Liz no Jay yes Allison no Andrew no Macy no Julia no Peter no ran no Ron no Judy no motion does not carry okay thank you okay now we're back to the original motion as written and submitted by the planning board this now I would like to make an amendment to remove big B little B one and then you would have to renum them construction Redevelopment or expansion of multi family residences and adus may I make a friendly Amendment thank you friendly Amendment a friendly amendment to I think you just meant the word and adus yes thank you and adus leave number one thank you don't have to fix the numbering leave the numbering alone that's big un clear which this is uh B little B number one so now number one would read construction Redevelopment or expansion of multif family residences semicolon get rid of NAD use okay somebody got that's what I move to do okay got to second that motion or don't to Second it m seconded by Macy yeah so Liz yeah your motion just so we're clear is section B little B subsection one strike and adus yes okay do a vote any questions concerns we understand what the the motion is before the floor okay Karen could you call the role just going to share it oh thank you I'm sorry second there you go too fast okay Tom uh no Steve no Lori no Liz yes Jay yes Allison no Andrew no Macy no Julia yes Peter no Brian no Ron no Judy no motion does he not carry thank you Liz okay we're back to the original motion as uh submitted by the planning board site plan review does anybody want to speak any further to that motion or the article in general Jay I think this is a great article I really want to see it passed um and I hope that the warrant committee will not only vote in favor of it tonight but will through our comment written in the article written in the oh where will we write a comment we will write it on a green sheet on a Green Sheet are you volunteering sh and passion and through our uh our chairs getting up and speaking at the town meeting complicate you've seen what we've talked about imagine 250 people talking about this uh complicated zoning things can lead to Anarchy in town meeting which then lead to them failing I'm hoping that we shepher this to a smooth sailing at Town Meeting thank you for those words Jay pressure's on okay okay anyone else okay here we go Karen may you could you call the roles please sure Tom yes Steve yes Lori yes Liz yes Jay yes Allison yes Andrew yes Macy yes juliia yes Peter yes ran yes Ron yes Judy yes motion carries yes thank you uh members we're going to move to the Adu article now uh before I um ask for a motion is there any would anyone like to speak further to this article any concerns or questions about it I see no hands raised um does would the committee like to put this matter to a vote looks like I get some heads nodding I move to pass as is okay Brian has a motion to pass the Adu bylaw as submitted by the planning board okay I move to amend okay don't you need a second yeah we need to oh I'm so sorry I I I should have said something um Brian has a motion to accept the the article uh as written and submitted by the planning second Allison's got a second so eager I'm so sorry okay um so anyway I move to amend section don't we have to vote on that now that we've seconded it and if it doesn't then she can amend like we've already then the she's already they've already made the motion and I've seconded it this should be a friendly amend friendly Amendment no um C it c um s to remove the language an Adu may not be rented for periods of less than 12 months at a time I would change it to say an Adu May is so I would get rid of may not be rented for periods of less than 12 months at a time I would change it to say an Adu is prohibited from being rented on a weekly or daily basis the Adu shall not be used for boarding and lodging or other commercial use is how I would have it read I would just take out for the reasons we discussed earlier may not be rented for periods less than 12 months at a time and so it could be rented monthly you get that so you said weekly or daily right it's prohibited from being to be clearing the language from that's fine that's fine than 31 thank you that's fine with me going to say sight to the statute so do do you want me to make the friendly Amendment please friendly amend okay so you're going to boy withdraw yes your friendly Amendment okay so thank you this has withdrawn okay do I hear any other friendly amendments oh I have a friendly Amendment thank you so I propose that um as a friendly amendment that section c subsection 7 where refers to an Adu may not be rented for periods less than 12 months at a time that the 12 months be struck from subsection 7 and add 31 days which Mires the language under chapter 64g which is 31 days May that's good question sure um L we're assuming we are that 31 days is actually correct and that Town Council is going to come to the same conclusion why would we vote on it without knowing the answer it's this particular section already refers to 64 chapter 64g um and it is defined as 31 days for Tennessee it cannot be less than 31 days pursu regardless of what what that refers to until Council has come back back to us with the definitive answer why are we voting at all I second that I that because Macy put it fourth well that we have a we have a motion now being proposed yeah okay but what's what's what is the motion so the motion you've stated it Karen has it up on the screen not yet okay can we discuss a little bit sure um so there's a question about the legality of that that's what you're basing this on if it can be 31 days right so we're not really sure I do agree I think we should get the town council's opinion on that before we vote on it I think we should be sure we get a Town Council opinion that's what I think we should all be sure about I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying why not wait for the the right final legal answer it does mention that short-term rentals as defined by Massachusetts general laws chapter 64g section one which is the definition section of that particular chapter and it defines a short-term rental as anything less than 31 days so I mean you could let Town Council do it well that's the thing so we could be coming back one way or another right 31 days I mean we're going to have to if to says this is no good we're going have to you know order the other way around we're going have to come back our proposition I'm I'm sorry inter oh no no no I'm done if the planning board did lift this from other towns that were approved by the AG then we might be okay with it we might not be okay with it but we might know it's okay for this state um okay Macy then so I I don't work for the Attorney General's office but what I do know is that this particular article refers to this particular chapter which defines what a short-term rental is and that 12- Monon period is in direct contradiction of what's defined under that particular General law so with that said I don't know what kind of review went through um with the Attorney General's office I'm not sure I don't know whether chapter 64g and the definitions therein were reviewed and applied um but just on face value reading a statute that doesn't that seems to be in effect and hasn't been recently amended and is referred to in this particular proposed bylaw um that 12- Monon period appears to me on its face to be in contradiction of an existing law in the Comm that's it so I get that yeah so I mean you could allow Town Council to review it and that's fine but based on the face of reading this particular VI it is in contradiction of an existing law in Massachusetts that's it um that's yeah Liz then Ry I have a procedural question yeah if one were to ask Town Council before we vote on this entire bylaw can we specifically reference to Town Council the thing that we're concerned about because yeah we can send them an email and say I would like to know about this specifically if we're going to defer in fact no matter what we did tonight I would be sending that to anyway saying this is what we talked about we're looking to amend this language can you take a closer look and give us a because we're fine maybe with the rest of it it's this thing that we have a problem with presuming to the statute that reads 31 as opposed to 12 I'm not confident just because other towns have passed this bylaw that it's legal that's that's all I'm saying no and I don't that's all I'm saying and not Maybe I'm Wrong does that make sense yes are you going to move forward with that motion or it seems like for efficiency's sake that perhaps we should let Town Council review it and then have another set of eyes on it and then bring it back to us so I mean what do you think chair yeah that would be fine we could vote on it as written and submitted get the opinion of Town Council and we can bring it back or we can just wait and not vote on this one at all yeah that that's my that was the only and I'm not disagreeing with you my question is only why would we vote on an article that we believe to be defective in language and let have Town Count Council have stab at it y That's and so if there's a good reason due to it let if there is just be mindful um you know I might have to call like a meeting just to vote on this like I might be dragging you in to for like a 20 minute thing but because and I'm fine with that you know that's what we we have to do that's why a lot of people don't want to be in the war committee so I just I just want those I just want those expectations that we that we anything's possible and we can do it um can you the only one in the room we all join by Zoom yes oh come on Jay and I will come will come I know so okay okay so we still have a motion on the floor right now I'll remove the motion okay so M Macy's goingon to withdraw withdraw my motion her Amendment okay so now we're really back to square one again I see Ron with a comment I I was going to propose a friendly amendment to your friendly Amendment rather than specify the date we can just refer to short-term rentals yes whatever that I gets interpreted as next year could be 33 days who cares we would just say it can not be used for short-term rentals pursuant to chapter 64 defined sorry it's a defined term so that that way we don't need to come back to most likely if Town Council says this the wording as submitted is improper the amendment should be proper because Amendment would be subject to the definition is an excellent proposal now it is I'm kind of a little I know I'm can I say something sure that's already the law state law anyways short-term rentals it's part of the whole Adu thing in the state but um I think we should find out from the planning board why they put this in here and what they're where they where it came from I'd like to see if they can just not get a whole Blow by blow I think they explain I think we asked about it Monday oh we for the same reasons they don't want Freight in the town and get out of control I don't think they they didn't have much more beyond that I be curious if theyed we bring them back we can we can do all of those things we can vote we cannot vote we can bring them back you can inquire through wait till Town Council I mean all of these are possibilities I think though frankly as I'm hearing all of this it might be better to let Town Council make the decision and then we just vote and then we can do whatever we want at that point we can amend we can recomend we can do whatever it just it just creates this makes tonight a little easier also on a clean record of it too exactly I have another procedural question Liz if Town Council were to determine that Macy is correct and that 31 days is the shortest amount of time by which you can limit it could then the planning board decide to change their language if they wanted to or because it's already kind of too late in the process are they not able to do that anymore I mean I know that they changed the language the other night I would like to give them an opportunity to weigh in one way or the other does this change the scope of the article that's the question I I think it has to come from our recommendation from this point on even those changes that were made the other night we're going to have to reprint in our comment your comment not ours um so that whole article is going to be in your comment with those changes like even the grammatical ones okay unless they reopen the entire warrant only the select board can do that okay y said y Ron so yes don't take a vote we need to remove the motion yes I'll withraw the mtion okay okay hold that thought J um a couple things to what was just said a second ago about isn't it state law anyway that the state law and the regulations say towns May Pro prohibit short-term rental pursuant to mgl 64g so a town might say airbnbs are just fine so we do want to put something in here saying I loved what Ron said restrict it per mgl 64g but if we're not ready to do that tonight there was a earlier question tonight which was what do we prefer and I heard people around this table and on Zoom some people would prefer the 12mon rent you know forget the law for a second some people on this committee would prefer the 12-month rental some people on this committee would prefer a did we settle on a number was it six was it less than six let's say wasn't less than 12 oh boy let's say six some people 12 more than three some people on this committee would prefer let swing for the fences three month restriction uh should we take a vote to figure out where we stand on that I mean because other otherwise like let's say Town meet let's say Town Council says no no it doesn't apply the 31 days thing doesn't apply we still would have to decide among ourselves do we like 12 do we like three we like six I think we cross that versally I agree I do too I agree see I feel like it's all in our brains so fresh now's the perfect time to vote J I love I love the spirit Julie makes a great point I think we I think I think we're well on our way and I think we come to easy consensus as to that I'm not I'm the chair I think the point that Macy brought forward is a very valid one and one we should be thinking about and it very well may be the ultimate it may be what the how the article reads so that being said the only other thing I'd ask Town Council is if they are able to is there a legal way to put it in enforcement mechanism on whatever whatever we decide okay that's fair we can do that and if we can't then what's it Point yeah he wouldn't put the town he wouldn't put the definition of enforced procedures oh he he wouldn't like Town count would allowed to yeah he said we we're allowed to but you know he wouldn't or I mean who who can we we do in the recommendation yeah we we can but ultimately town meeting if if our planning board or the others do not we put it in the recommendation that there be an enforcement mechanism and whatever he says the enforcement mechanism could be then we could decide that that's what we want to do and we could put that in there okay with and I think that's a good question what are the legal enforcement mechanism I think that's a good question to ask him as well with the caveat that it can't be beyond the scope of what was printed in the warrant the moderator or Town Council might say the town got a warrant it said this it said nothing about enforcement therefore or you know you can't put you can't votee on things at town meeting that are beyond the scope of what's printed in the warrant which is sometimes hard to tell but that may be inter Ryan sometimes businesses have to file leases with the towns and they do it for valuation of propit that's commercial I don't know if that happens in Milton maybe that's commercial some businesses say but maybe maybe you could always you could always do that good point good okay should we dismiss no we're not there yet need to withraw yes can we can we put up on the screen what uh you had written Karen for us please so everybody can see it sorry give me one second what what we were last I believe no okay okay so yeah what you want to do just put chocolate just to be clear I think Macy proposed that per but but that was never seconded so that this is the last made in second motion I'm withdrawing my yeah that was withdraw you withdraw I withdraw yeah Liz do we need to move to cuz there is a motion to we don't have to vote on this okay so I'd like to withdraw my motion you're up yeah you're up okay so the Slate is clean okay you're up the Slate is clean over go for it okay now we do have the overlay but we have the site plan right now are we didn't we already vote on oh no I'm sorry I'm we you just have the overlay yeah overlay the map the map straight forward okay didn't we already vote on that no because it wasn't on the agenda remember yeah right now it is motion vote on the overlay and he's got to vote to motion on the overlay I second seconded by Liz thank you okay okay uh this would be a motion to see if the Tom will vote to amend the zoning m to include the Milton Village plan unit development in Brook load overlay District as described and the Articles as printed and submitted by the planning board uh these concern the Milton Village mixed use plan unit development boundary and also the Brook Road overlay District potential Parcels uh this was a previously approved zoning bylaw uh Amendment um by town meeting this is a uh the these Maps contained within the article must be included uh otherwise the amendment to our overlay is not in effect this is pursuant to state law um so this article would amend the zoning map to add these two plan unit developments to the zoning map at the recommendation of Town Council so um those are our two um Maps Karen Tom yes Steve I'm sorry I uh come back to me please sorry Lori yes Liz yes yeah I was trying to find it on here thanks Allison yes Allison yes Andrew yes Macy yes Julia yes Peter yes Ryan yes Ron yes and Judy yes and Steve Steve yes sorry the motion passes okay another unanimous vote okay so we have one of these left that we're going to ask Town Council about and have him opine on and tell us if we're right if Macy's right no we're right um okay I my my my uh I was hoping just to get through these three it's not it's this is not a bad thing at all um we have plenty of time and I think it's a I think the committee made a great decision so thank you very much um future planning I want to move on to um I've been in conversation with select board select board member in terms of our lighting bylaw submitted by the select board we would be able to have a speaker as to that on the 18th of February okay so that's a Tuesday it's the earliest we could have someone in okay um as to our citizens petitions I have not in my search throughout the town government uh and through some people on the select board who trying to help out I've yet to find someone willing to come forward to speak to these or one per each someone to each article I will continue I've I've I've asked a couple of people um within town government select board to help me out see if someone can come forward we would like it would be very helpful I think to kind of get the behind the curtains look at you know the meaning behind this what the conversation was like why um you know those are all very important things citizens petitions we usually have someone come in some sometimes you know my experience maybe we haven't have we we have we have yeah yes so um that's it so we got and so citizens petitions and lighting bylaw are left I have a question is it usually a petitioner that comes in and speaks thought okay the citizen who wrote it right so they and and wable to OB just as as of now no one's really come forward um you know there are a lot of names on it and uh other Town administ other members of town government have inquired and other and they and I think the response has been no you don't want to come in or the people who are asked I'm not speaking this is hearsay I have no idea it's just that uh I'm just that's what I'm trying to do committee because I think it would be very helpful oh yeah Julia um are we going to get to hear from Town Council about the um citizens petition about the select uh planning board article in particular since they said to talk to Town Council yeah I I'm in the process right now via email and with the Town Administrator making arrangements for the Town Council to come in and speak to those okay so I'm expecting like a big week next week in terms of trying to finish these up if we can I don't know as to the lighting bylaw I would i' I'd really like to hear um I think we'd benefit from hearing from the select board member on that one so that one would probably be the last I'd like to get i' like to finish up this last planning board article and uh the citizens petitions next week so I'm I'm eyeing for Town Council to come in and maybe we can kind of address all of these I still want to have the meetings next week I think at the very least on Wednesday like we can still talk about the lighting like we can still have a conversation if the Warner committee wants to um about them about our initial thoughts and feelings about them um I always find that it's very helpful to have a speaker in U I feel that that kind of moves the discussion along um but I'm going to be working to figure this all out for you so our meetings are as scheduled um I will be keeping you up to date I do have some materials concerning the citizens petition for the uh the law license appropriation if I can do it tonight I'll forward it to you tonight or tomorrow but in the next couple of days I I just have some statutes and some other um materials just for you to look at that just kind of give a background to it um sorry not not to take the place of a speaker like I've been doing throughout our term just kind of sending you stuff from that like information just so you can read and be up to speed on it sorry is this a third citizens petition no it's the one to to um for the law license for the uh legal appropriation oh oh okay gotta so that it's just background stuff I I I I try I think it'd be helpful for you Tom just going ask a question sure Andrew um you said as scheduled do we did I miss something we already have we already post did we already post you didn't post out through the month no not for next week that that was going to I was confirming so we're doing Monday Tuesday and Thursday is ICT I had Monday Tuesday Thursday for us next week I'm sorry Karen okay I had Monday Tuesday Thursday I just out of an abundance of caution and is I also have I don't know if any anybody else has this but I have a zoom meeting scheduled for like multiple days every day every day every day is I need to ask about it's just to their ability to use the same link I think we have link sends us to not have to send out separate links it it does throw throw me off okay on Saturday night when I was supposed to be at the warrant Comm no I I saw it once and I was like this isn't a zoom just okay so what I'm asking members of the committee to do is just keep in check check your town email um I know the two the authen ifications are the ne but please just check the email um and just to see if I can't get anybody from Monday I don't want to waste anybody's time so it may means you might have to readjust for the end of the week and I'm sorry um if that's a hardship but I I want to get the most out of our time and then get these comments and we have until the beginning of the following week to submit uh those comments so I'm mindful of that also okay does anybody have any questions about that I'm just trying to get the most bang for our buck Town Council Town Administrator citizens potentially uh any petitioner who signed that and is knowledgeable enough to come before the board and speak and articulate the reasons behind um and any other questions we may have I I would invite them in and you can if any member of this board knows someone of this committee reach out to me and I will connect with them and we will have a conversation we'll see if that can happen but L I have a question so um you said Monday Tuesday Thursday next week Monday Wednesday Thursday no you you said Monday Tuesday I think I said that that was me I'm sorry it's Monday Wednesday Thursday oh Monday Wednesday Thursday um and so okay I'll move um not Tuesday and not Friday then okay um and then the idea would be Monday would be who maybe someone from the Town Council or Town Administrator I want both okay and then Wednesday vote vot and then Thursday maybe no meeting okay well maybe if there's somethingone that for the citizens V okay yeah I will Reserve those days I just want to schedule them I want to get them you know presuming to the open meeting lot I just want them out there doesn't mean we have to have them I what like I said I'm trying to make the most use of our time we're going to vote really busy after this town meeting it's going to get really busy here so uh thank this just hasn't been busy audible side um no okay J yeah I I think I would like to talk about the lighting bylaws next week if possible even even before we have somebody come in because the following week is school vacation and I don't think I'll be joining those meetings I may but I probably won't be yeah I actually have a question were the bylaws regarding lighting distributed because I couldn't find it in the email where they sent out or I can't I'll get you that L does anybody everybody have all the B everybody have everything it's a word attachment right it yes yeah you will get it so everyone has the materials okay anyone have any Aaron Bradley motion to Brian has a motion a second seconded third third all in favor I okay this meeting is adjourned thank you warning committee thank you members of the public thank you chairman e e e for