##VIDEO ID:dpk5MR0CwYg## [Music] he good evening and now welcome to the war commit January 22nd 2025 Karen can you take a role we have Tom calwell Steve Bry Lori Connelly Elizabeth Dylan Jay Funland Julie Joyce is on Zoom Andrew Co Peter M and Ronald seal and Judy steel are on Zoom you have a quum okay grace uh thank you everyone for being here um so I just wanted to uh just discuss you a little change of plans um for the meetings tonight I was expecting to discuss um the liquor articles uh tonight with Town Council um attorney Melo attorney Melo and I spoke this afternoon and due to a family emergency was not able to make it for this evening he will be coming tomorrow so uh just to take a step ahead tomorrow we're going to be have schools in for find presentation on their three articles including the new article on the Cunningham school project so we've received you know we've received a lot of information thus far obviously the Cunningham article is brand new but we've heard a lot about it obviously uh I have over the past couple years here in the warning committee and obviously they were talking about it when they first came to us um so that would really set us up tomorrow I would like really like to have a vote on these three School articles tomorrow in addition to um the article allowing consumption of liquor on Town premises um so I think that being said um if the members of the committee here could really try to prepare for tomorrow with the schools and just kind of be armed with all questions that you can have and and I understand that a colleague asked a question you know you think of something new and and I understand understand that but we're kind of up against the gun uh for the deadline for the article to go to the warrant to go to print so um I'd really like to see if we can wrap up all our business as printed um in the warrant up to this point uh completed so we can start working on the comments and then obviously um in terms of any citizen petitions or any other articles we may see the select board is meeting next week um we could see something else but um I trust after Town Council finishes reviewing the zoning bylaws amendments that we'll have those to deal with in February so that that clear everybody so tonight would would like to I'd like to get through the senior tax if we can I know that was like kind of the hot conversation yesterday and if we do have the band with and we would like kind of to trct maybe we could consider a vote on the five liquor licenses that the town is looking for just kind of get that out of the way and I'm just saying this in anticipation of tomorrow night um I'd like to avoid a Monday meeting or meetings next week um so those who have comments assign can really like we can work on those uh you can work on those as a group individually and and with me just to get those over to the clerk and uh Square it away um now even though Mr mow unfortunately could couldn't be with us tonight Our Town Administrator uh has uh agreed to come in on Zoom to answer some questions about the the senior um tax break um and see maybe if he can help us kind of square that away and um I didn't say this to him but you know if you do have some other maybe slight questions about anything else that's on here uh that we're looking at maybe the liquor article maybe um our town Administration Mr Miler could help us out on those but um like I said he he's agreed to fill the void for us so we can get something done tonight so I really appreciate that on his part I had a question on the town um issuing one day liquor licenses um I was assuming that those were for sale alcohol for sale at those events or is it just or is that another issue I didn't notice in the articles I saw that whether it was this is an open bar or whether this is uh something that you pay per drink uh assuming that there would be some cost associated with bring in the caterer and maybe they're looking to recoup um for example the library and having not been to one of those any event where there has been alcohol wasn't sure whether this was I think that changes the dynamic a little bit but I didn't um sort of driving over here to myself just kind of thought that I didn't see it clearly stated whether This was um come in and have a drink or come by and have a drink or come by and buy a drink buy a beer buy a so do we have any any information on that did I miss anything not that I can give you now we can talk to to to Mr about it is any member of the committee have any ideas on that comment I don't I don't think we know I think that was you're right I think that was one question that we weren't sure about I feel like there was talk of having it you'd have a bar and a bartender like youd get somebody from the bar to man it but if it's being sponsored by the chamber yeah because the chamber collecting any revenue from it yeah versus the town if the town was collecting then maybe that's a positive yeah I'm trying to think of my own experiences um and I I can't recall how the said how it weren't yeah well it was sort of once I had that thought I was going speak you as to the app and the article as to whether or not there was a pay to play you know see what our see our um Heiss his hand up so uh I'm sorry to take so long Mr Milano you're recognized as always to speak uh sorry for the delay no problem um good evening everybody good everybody um but I don't know if I'm going to answer the question fully but just kind of clarify um what what the proposed F would allow is the saor consumption and possession of alcohol on Town property okay um you know and subject to approval about the select board and you know the other entity that care custom control of that property the more specific questions of how that would be administered are um you know questions for how we would manage that today for one day liquor licenses they're issued to you know the US to estate for's house Milton Art Center um those kind of groups that we don't necessarily interact with we get you know their um insurance information we get their backup information and then the select board would issue the onee license which is for the sale of um beer and wine or sale of all alcohol beverages so in terms of how would a town entity want to use its facility that's kind of up in the air and and that town entity could bring indicator I think as we talked about last time what we're responding to is those kinds of events down on the deck and the history has been that um while we partnered we partnered with the chamber and the Chamber has been the um has brought in the cater through um Novar depart so that's been that kind of example um that's not the only way to do it but that's again what we were responding to and and trying to bring this forward um and how I would anticipate other boards of committees would want to you know have an outside who be responsible for for the S um the question I I you know this would allow that technically but it's not something I would foresee um and it could be you know a policy of the board not to you know authorize that especially the town property where um you know that's just kind of a different kind of event obviously thank you yeah is that good yeah I guess while we're on if you could M while we're on I and I know we're going to talk to Mr melow tomorrow uh but um is there any other question taking advantage of Mr Milano's time as to the liquor um questions does anything have does anybody here have something for him in terms of no no questions just intent of the select board the language any any issues that you have and I and I know Mr malow is coming tomorrow to discuss the liability Liz I know it's sort of similar to what we had talked about before but is there going to be any intent by the select board to kind of hear from the neighbor so the chamber for example or whomever could put an event on at the deck um and that could be attended by anybody in town but it's really the people that live right around there that might be affected by that so is there any intention to listen to the people that live nearby wherever the event is held and also is there going to be any limitation on okay we're going to have like say a certain number of events per year on the deck um and not over that sort of a limitation only once per you know every quarter or once per month or not every day or whatever it is um just sort of limit the impact on particular neighborhoods yeah I I think the board is responsi to concerns if one worth to come forward or if Worth to arise and and take that um duration again I think where where coming from is this is a blanket prohibition um maybe it may put Sense Once Upon a Time but maybe we're in a place where it's time to move away from a blanket prohibition take these events on a case-by Case basis as we um have tried to do um until recently I I don't Envision you know month L weekly kind of routines I think what we're we're anticipating is what we have seen over the past couple years which is two maybe three um if there's an additional activation of that space you know I think that might be great but it's something we would have to consider if that came up but right now um where we're responding to is is you know less than a handful of events a year um in one particular location um and then take it take it from there it do we have plans or have we drafted any policies to date no um you know I think our our again what we're reacting to is a few discrete events a year if that became a bigger question it's something we would um want to address more formally uh but for now um from where things stand today we haven't taken any you know concrete steps on formulating a specific policy um I can bring that request back to the select board that that might you know it's something folks might want to see um but it would be you know a separate action from the bylaw change here sure Liz with the followup sorry so um The process by which someone could get permission or license or whatever to do this would that happen in an open select board meeting where there would be comment by members of the community or is this a sort of thing that they would just work on separately I just want want to make sure that there's an opportunity for people particularly people like me who live near the deck um and people who live sort of on that side of the highway which I don't but I know that they're very impacted by traffic to have a say when it comes to the select board and and I and I take into account sort of what you're saying and you know I do think that there's good intent here but sometimes when we open the door it's hard to close it again so um I guess my main question is is that going to be a process in an open select board meeting where people would have an opportunity to weigh in before it would be granted would there be noticed that there's a certain property people would have an opportun I mean a certain date this is the on the deck or wherever it is people in the community who have an issue with it can come and speak to that and then the select board can decide right so would we would treat it like any other agenda item any of these you know any kind of one-day license today even you know even for the chambers events and I don't want to just use that as a sole example but in those examples they have to come to the selectboard for permission to use the deck that goes on an agenda every selectboard meeting has public comment is set aside um at every meeting you know the members and myself are always available by email or by phone ahead of meetings around meetings but um you know yes is it an open um is it an agenda item on a select board meeting yes is there public comment at all those meeting yes is there necessarily public comment taken around every request for an event not particularly but folks who uh want to come to speak on any issue um have that opportunity at the beginning of any select board meeting and obviously opportunities to reach out to members directly or to myself directly um ahead of um when actions are taken but um so it would be you know multiple different approvals right now for events on property on the S boards control you have to um submit and sign off um on an application and and our policy to use that land it goes to selectboard meeting um that would continue in this case except it would be a second approval um for um a one day license for that location thank you Nick uh Judy get your hand up uh yes thank you um are we just talking to Nick now about the liquor licenses or were you opening Nick up to any questions that might be on the agenda tonight well Judy I think uh we we we started with the liquor question so okay um I would I'd like to keep it to this and then just move over to se the senior tax break no I wasn't sure if Nick was staying for the whole meeting or he was um just here for a short space of time nick uh the time is here just to answer okay thank you Nick and Tom thank you Judy does anybody have any questions just about um potentially the the liquor license or the five liquor licenses to the town now that we have the Town Administrator here what prompted the change or how did this article well Mr mad I think you you spoke to that a little earlier um I think you indicated that there was a there was a the select board or there was others were approached concerning uh having fundraisers and get togethers at on various town properties um so the the member just wanted to know um like what what started this this this article um how did it get going uh yeah we had um a group approach us about a fundraiser in a town building and we had initially said you know let's um that would include um bear in mind and we had said you know nothing from our perspective would would prohibit that let's you know just check with Town Council and we'll get back to um and was at that point Council pointed us to this BW um that was still on the books um so it was just a matter of you know here's a BW that's been in place should we keep it in place um or is it time to revisit it I I approached the select board about about it um and that's you know kind of what drove it um and in addition to that uh the um Regular events down at at the deck in terms of a Halloween stroll and the holiday tree lighting um you know they've been using the art center property as a location um for um beer and wine service and it was like you know if if it would make sense to expand that to the deck itself for discret events um you know that might be something the suck board's willing to consider but the B on the books we didn't uh want to do anything until uh we could update it or bring it to town meeting um with a request to change it so that was kind of the Genesis behind it got it thank you Nick sure any other questions about the liquor it might be really more of a question for attorney mow but I'm just curious about how we're making sure that people are of age to be drinking at these events I guess it's the bartenders problem if there is one but I don't know if that's the case that there will be a barer of these events and or how do you keep I think how do you keep people from bringing their own alcohol from home you can't but I think you have to have at registered events you have to have a tips trained bartender right yeah I think that's and that's what um and I'm sorry Mr Milan that's what I had discussed with um Town Council today and I think he's going to present on you know he has obviously a series of thoughts regarding Insurance tip Benders like those things to obviously keep the liability to the town at the bearest minimum um you know if anything were to happen so he can speak to that I don't know Mr Milano if you have any comments just about the the liability enforcement or that type of thing right no I think our in um you know especially where it's our property we would want to approach it you know a charity can approach it differently if they're using their own property and it's kind of up to them you know if a if a hall or used to stateus however they want to run that they can do that under their own um as they see fit in terms of what they own want to see as their own liability but for us obviously we would want to approach it differently um we've talked about this with our insurance provider they you know have recommendations on how the liability insurance should read how the town should be covered um so any anytime we have an event on Town property we make sure we're indemnified that we have insurance coverage um that meets the the recommendation of our insurance provider um that the town is an additional insured um if there's a contract between the parties they'll review the contract so that's that's kind of our run-of-the-mill um process for approving events anyway um and I would carry over obviously with the you know particular detailed um so like you're in this case um but um I agree with what you know Tom's points about how we've had those conversations with Town Council and um would be able to um make sure we're taking steps to limit our exposure um as much as possible so Mr M had it had a series of recommendations I think he's going to impress upon the town which I think really frankly in speaking to him in Nick's comments that the town has been following up to this point in any in in this in this theater regarding uh alcohol sales and uh he would obviously recommend that it extend obviously now to the town property but we we'll hear from him tomorrow and he can break it down are there any other questions from Mr Milano as to this issue right okay um so to be continued until tomorrow evening uh these two bylaws um Town Administrator Milano I was just wondering um there was series of questions we had a a robust discussion last evening about the senior I just call it the senior tax break article um and I know I we we had shared some questions that were posed by various members of the board so um I just kind of wanted to open it up to that Mr Milano and um open it up to the floor if you're okay with that uh maybe see if we can figure out some of these questions no happy too okay um so I got some emails from people I I shared them um so whoever wants to go first and please don't hold back remember Dylan did you send Mr Milano my Five summary questions they certainly did okay um miss m Miss styan has some questions for for you m now I summarize other things that I heard other people say so I can just ask my own question and then other people can ask their own question um so one of the things that we had talked about was the language I didn't number it in my own email here but it was the qualifying it's part of section two the qualifying parcel is owned by one a single taxpayer age 65 or older or two toly buy one or more taxpayers so long as the owner is age 65 or old order um thank you it's section 2 b um so we had talked a lot about a you know a lot of us lawyers decided to kind of have a lawyerly approach to it and kind of think about it so for example if one if two people own the property and one of them were 65 years old and they own a very minimal amount like 1% of the property and that individual who's 65 or older qual qualified for the circuit breaker and the other owner was 60 years old or older and they owned 99% but they would not qualify for the circuit breaker um and that 99% owner was very wealthy so they had a lot of assets they had a lot of money they had a lot of income whatever um would that entire property then get a tax break because the taxpayer who qualifies for the circuit breaker what apply and they are one individual who is domiciled owns the property is 65 and older and has lived there for a period of over 10 years our question is if somebody owns it jointly not everybody has to qualify for the circuit breaker the way that this is written and so what if you own it jointly with someone who has very high income that person as it it's written to getting to my second Point me not even live in Milton so long as the applicant lives in Milton and so we're just wondering about sort of the intent of the select board in that situation and if that's not their intent is there a way that we can kind of firm up that language but I mean in terms of percent of ownership I think we didn't get into that because now we're making this more and more difficult to administer and part of the approach has been you know we're not trying to put too much of a burden on the T's office um and then the other element is also to keep in mind that the qual the the entry into this is whether or not you qualify for the senior circuit breaker income tax credit so in you know in that case there's different income thresholds for people who are filing jointly or filing separately so could there be a situation where there's two homeowners living together they file separately and the applicant who submits their paperwork to the town is the one who qualified for it not the other one who qualified for it yeah I guess yes that is possible um but that is if they're siblings or one is a parent and a child they're not married something like that yeah it just requires them be co- applicants it doesn't require them be spouses or or anything else that first entry of being qualifi for the for the state tax credit you know whoever is applying for the credit Milt and the exemption for Milt have to have met all that criteria um and that's where you know filing jointly or filing as a head household might come in and limit some of those situations but um no the language could that scenario play out into the language yes it could okay and then her next question was regarding this language so if the applicant taxpayer or at least one of the joint applicants has been domiciled or owned a residential unit of real property for at least 10 consecutive years so we had a lot of discussion about two sorts of things one if a person were to own a property in Milton for say 30 years they have to move outside of Milton maybe they still own their home but they rent it out to someone else because they have to leave to live someplace else for a few years you know to take care of an ill family member because they themselves are ill for whatever reason they move back to Milton live here ninee same house that they've owned the whole time but they weren't domiciled there this person's contributed to Milton for 39 years technically they wouldn't be able to participate in this program until the 10th the next 10th year that they've lived here so we were just discussing I was discussing my concern that sure it might be an edge case but we're thinking of a lot of edge cases I want to make sure that all of our senior Ed just broke all of our senior citizens um who've contributed to our community can get the benefit of this if that's the select board and the select board's intention yeah and we had talked about that when I first or when I was back from the war compan a couple weeks ago and I haven't had a chance to speak with the board um as a whole in terms of their take on this I think I think again we were um kind of tracking what other communities had done a lot of communities had the 10 years in ownership um we didn't from a policy perspective disagree with that approach um you raise Fair points I think the what we brought forward um track with what other communities have done um and we felt reflected you know 10 years wasn't a lifetime but it was a significant time um to have uh owned previously um but if there's an interest in expanding the pool to ensure you're capturing people who may have rented or or like you know you know lived here moved out for a couple years came back but have been here you know more or less for the last for their you know most of their life then the language could be amended to um make it broader um that's certain it's it's a comment I plan to to discuss with the board at our meeting on the 28th uh but it's not something I today can kind of respond in terms of uh select board's perspective on it um I'm less concerned about the person who works at Milton Academy and lives in a house owned by Milton Academy that hasn't been paying property taxes that for one isn't really going to bother me if they miss out on it um but I do get your point in terms of potential folks who have rented in town um or who have you know stepped away and for a couple years or come back or whatever the case may be um the language today would not the language as Gra would not allow for those cases um but there you know there's there's reasons to to tweak that or and change that if folks feel that it's important to um grab additional folks are or expand that eligibility uh Judy was up Julia I'm Julia I'm sorry thank you um so my understanding of the state um circuit breaker tax exemption is is that um renters are eligible but it looks like that is not something that Milton has chosen to go with as well um was there any discussion around including renters in this article there's no real mechanism for us to um exempt money paid by renters because this is all just thought based on property taxes so if you're renting properties certainly rents contributes to your landlord property taxes but it mechanically there's no way for us to ensure that any kind of an exemption trickles back to that renter um and I I wouldn't even know the you know the ways to structure it so it's a property tax exemption so it has to go to homeowners the way um it's struct sh yeah should okay thank you um Lori don't was going to say how's that I forgot what I was going to say now well how about I go to Liz Dylan and then back you that'd be great it'll come back to me I need do a Judy now I have a thought and then I got Judy so Liz Lori Judy um kind of following up on Julia's point I think one of the things that we had talked about was not the renters applying for this benefit while they're still renters I think it was someone who could have rented a property in Milton has like a lease and show that they rented it for you know the past 10 years and then purchases a house and then for that time that they purchased the house say well I've owned this house for five years and I've rented for the past 30 years but I'm not eligible for that tax break because I've only own my home for 5 years I think that was one of the things that we were saying a person who's a senior citizen could have contributed um in a different way sure but lived here for 35 years and then because they only own their home for 5 years so I guess my point really is just it's not necessarily um you know my thoughts although you know I think they're valid but also just trying to understand what was talked about by the select board what was kind of their intention and then making sure that the language reflects that and then if we disagree fine but I just want to make sure that this language isn't isn't vague at all so that um it isn't like a subject of a lot of fighting down the road if it can be kind of clarified then I would be happy to you know think about that as well I don't know if you wanted me to bring up the other two questions that people had or other people can ask them they weren't mine I just emailed them to I can bring them up okay and then L answer say laor are you ready oh I am I was just going to comment though um if we have the assessors managing this program and reviewing it and we have the one person out of 400 that might apply that goes out of state for two years I would think they could make the case to the assessors in an appeal type format ni potentially that they might be able to get an exception I mean I feel like as Liz said we're looking at all the edge issues and are we going to be able to come up with every single scenario of somebody's situation that might require or qualify them for the break but yet we can't I mean it's like the liquor license that we were just talking about well what if this happens or what are the parameters around how the select board is going to approve is it a board or a committee what if it's a group of people that just want to have a function on a Town property what are the requirements for that like we're trying to it's like the local historic district where like oh my it's like we're trying to write so much into it that it seems very honorous that we don't have we don't necessarily have the policies for the liquor licens this I went through an a number of communities today they have taken the standard language it is standard in every one of them that I looked at it's working it seems to be working we could revisit it after we determine if there's problems if there's a thousand people knocking at the Assessor's door saying I have this exception you didn't include me and it becomes a problem then we address it if there's an issue with 75 events that people want to throw on Town property with liquor you know with a liquor license will'll have to revisit it seems like we're trying to make it harder than it might be after spending a few hours today going through all this stuff okay two sents Judy ah thank you um I was reviewing um section two G and um the applicant had in regards to applicants having ex excessive assets so I'm just going to run through this how I went through the whole circuit breaker I read every page every word and I know there were people that were concerned about if you had too many monitary assets but in order to get the circuit breaker from the state you have to include uh schedule B non-mass Bank interest dividends and short-term cap gains you have to include Schedule D long-term cap gains or distributions um schedule Y which has to do with certain deductions I believe that the circuit breaker for the state covers a lot of those concerns so if you pass through all these schedule and um um documents you have to provide to employ those schedules that are necessary to get this circuit breaker then our Board of assessors um can basically not have to do that work it's already been done by the do however I did hear and I can't remember whether it was Nick Connor are you Mr Milano um it had to have been you in one of your presentations that the um ex excessive assets for our town would be viewed as additional property ownership whether it be in town out of town out of state just if you have an additional property and how on your application do you envision um that that where that would be and how it would play out would the applicant merely State I have a house you know in howich I have a house in uh B Colorado I have a house in you know some snow mountain in Vermont to ski um and it would be self-reported is that how you envision it on the asset I am in favor of keeping schedule of section g in section two I I airm I I firmly think it's a good thing to check for property assets because the circuit breaker is already taken care of you know your Fidelity Fidelity accounts Etc um so could you answer that how how you found uh let's say Wakefield or other towns toess if they had that they have they've included as a question on their application um obviously it would take a lot of homework for somebody to actually hunt down somebody whether they own something far away um so it's included as a question on the application about whether um the African owns any other property um you know the board of assessors could say we don't view additional property as an excessive asset and they won't include that on their application um but in our experience of talking out the communities that's typically what they um they really limit it to just asking about additional property otherwise um it's you know once you've qualified for that senior circuit breaker through the state um you're pretty much considered eligible locally as long as you meet the other requirements in the in the home RO petition um but yes Judy to your point it's um it's been uh focused primarily on additional property and it's typically a question on on the application that the um person has to answer fill up inside okay thank you Julie has Julie hey there um thank you I just wanted to make a couple of points um I used to work for the Boston New Development Authority we handled all the affordable housing applications and when we went through to vet people to see if they qualify for these it wasn't just who it wouldn't have been um an option for one person who owned a slight percentage of a house we wanted the entire household income so if you had two people who would join owners of a property both incomes would usually um have to go into that application and and as far as um somebody who if they left the state and they left for a couple of years and then to come back if they still own the house in a situation where we were thinking you know that they rented it out that rental income which reflected upon is as income so that is always going to end up in the income category the house is still an asset so most of those things would probably already have been gone through by the um by the by the program before it would even get to the assesses office I would think because for them to have to go through applications and try to figure out if somebody owns a house out out of state or or whatever um I think would be brutal for the town to have to do that but um I think a lot of the the concerns that people have the valid concerns that everybody just sort of mentioned should have already been before it would get to to us that those applications um would be vetted so you already look at income assets but um anybody who leaves a house for a year or two very few people would have the ability to leave a house vacant and not collect um some sort of rent from people and you are required to um disclose rent um rental payments so uh I think that would probably handle a lot of that and um that's about it that's all I wanted to say thanks thank you Julie um Liz in terms of the two questions I I'm I'm as I'm reading them that they some of them have been answered do you want to just take the rein with what you wrote do you mind if I just that sorry at all u m m we just have a there are a couple more questions from last evening um that we you just want to make sure we've covered everything yeah which one is it four and five no it was one and it was one and five but I think we already answered one so it's really just five we had different feelings about the excessive assets and the role of the board of assessors in determining whether or not to deny an application based on the a person has excessive assets and what that would entail what excessive assets mean again this wasn't really my question so other people want to firm it up but um I just wrote them all down yeah Nick I I can a little bit I mean not much more but I I think you know we we've had conversations about fines for historical violations and fences going in wrong places and there was a real um you know lot of um concern about just money and and and that types of stuff and and who sets the bar um on fines or anything but uh like how would they determine excessive assets and like what would would there be a table like how would they if you know yeah I think like I said I think where we have seen it limited to in other communities is what we would anticipate most likely would be limited here would be that question about additional property and really that's it um the the board could feel you know additional questions are are warranted um we've left it open-ended for that purpose um however throughout this process we felt it's important you know it's helpful to track to how communities have implemented this how it's been successful elsewhere um so I think what we have found is um other communities have focused on the excessive assets meaning just the additional property um however the language would certainly allow the board of assessors to put something more formal or more um extensive into into place if it's so desired or they could say Hey you know look this is working on the communities um let's kind of follow their lead see how it goes and if adjustments are necessary adjustments are necessary if if they get get alerted to some issues um but as currently written um it would it would defer that you know policy formulation or lack of a better phrase to the board of assessors and I expect where uh we would land is recommending that we stick to the additional property like other communities and and see how the program goes uh from there um I'm going can I ask a question of a question of Julie Joyce Julie you there yep I am um what would the BR do in your experience do they do they go after the excessive assets like how do they look at it did they oh yeah because um what we would find is is um folks would be retired so they their their income they you know 1099 W2 income would put them right into the category to get into whatever units they want so we were finding we were finding retirees were able to get into these luxury units like the Mandarin Oriental or over in Charlestown and um they had massive amounts of assets and and retirement funds you know IAS vacation properties or something so there was an awful lot of money that we weren't able to count at first so that kind of had to come back in and say all right we have an asset um asset columns we also had um and it was age dependent as well so people who were older were allowed to have retirement and and things like that built up if they weren't currently um sort of collecting income on a regular basis but we had to you know you have to kind of be careful about that um we had different income categories you know for just like the affordable housing units that you're going to see at you know the ice house or anywhere else depending on the median income the 50% 80% 90% you know 100% um units but they're very very strict so they would go they would go right through your Schedule C income they would which is where you would sort of all of your um all of your interests would show up so your uh investment properties which would sort of trigger a hey that person knows a vacation property or that they rent out or they rent out their other property um and any sort of other um business income things like that so that's sort of how they handled it thank you Julie that's helpful you're welcome um oh jakay uh yeah I I think this is a question for Nick so someone one of our colleagues said a few minutes ago that the board of assessors could approve someone if they would otherwise be denied or at least that's what I heard now if I read this I don't see it that way I see it if somebody does not meet A B C or D they just don't give this credit and the board of assessors has no ability to give them this credit am I reading that correctly Mr Milano yes there wasn't um there's no l that that authorize them to wave or you know qualify some of the other um Bas qualifications um so as an entry point you have to have met those first four um or however many like language today does not allow the bo of say hey you've been here you know 30 of the last 40 but not some of the last 10 so but we'll still let you in that that wiggle room or lack of um flexibility um exists in the in the way we've drafted it thank you okay um one of the questions uh I asked yesterday and I think is pertinent um still pertinent is what was the spirit of um this article I mean was it I had assumed it was to uh keep long-term homeowners uh in their homes in the face of rising property taxes is that the case or was there a different rationale and the reason I asked that question is that I think there are a lot of valid points that people had brought up except they are not perfect analoges to what this article is and so whether we're talking about the Boston Housing Authority or circuit breaker um those are tied to specific um individuals and instances um in this case the language is a little loose so you could have an ownership group that is not necessar myself and my spouse um and um not everybody has to qualify for that the circuit breaker and so um that's why I think the spirit is really critical for me in order to say yes I agree with the language as is or I have serious problems with it so I guess my question is what is the what was the Genesis of this and what's the intent of um the I guess a group of individuals were trying to protect no I think you H it right on um it's a you know envisioned as not as a way to help shift some of the burden away from Seniors onto everybody else in town um especially as we contemplate um you know at when we were first kicking this around it was an operating over at and a potential school project bid question that would have an impact on tax bill so it was envisioned as a way to um you know address and mitigate some of that um that's where the Genesis came from we have been talking to other communities in terms of um when they've tackled um overrides and project big project B questions and de exclusions um we had we were approaching it from a you know just to take even further step back where you're saying okay have we done everything we can to maximize revenue from the town as question a and question B is other ways to minimize um or mitigate some of the impacts on those um who are on fixed incomes so you know from a revenue perspective uh didn't come up with many great ideas um uh you know the growth conversation is one Milton's always been having we do have a grant for an economic development master plan uh with the Massachusetts area planning Council that's underway so we're exploring that pathway and then on mitigating some of the impacts this was something that actually the town of Hingham um flagged for us is something that they had just done and then from there was additional conversations with other folks particularly from the North Shore about how they've um brought put this into effect as well so that's that's kind of the Genesis of it um and squarely to to help mitigate and address um some of those experting issues um or tax impact issues over the next few years great that that's really help and then that sort of further hardened my resolve that I would love to see the language tightened a little and potentially uh also give the assessors a little bit of leeway in both Direction uh in terms of um disqualifying people with the applicants or an applicant group associated with particular property with excessive assets as well as as creating exceptions for um protecting really who this is intended to protect um I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the renters uh or people that have left for a period of time and come back but um again I'd love to see this tightened up a little and also give the assessors some degree of uh discretion without creating an undue burden on on them from an administrative standpoint L I remembered another thing that I forgot to include in my email to you and so one of the things that you had mentioned Mr Milano was um when you had originally come in the first time to talk about this and you just reminded me of this when you were talking but um you had said that the idea was this would go hand inand with an override and um I was wondering if the select board considered language sort of conditioning this on their being such an override or the debt exclusion in the event that towns people don't vote for those things I'm not saying that senior citizens don't still deserve a tax break um I think they they do but um since you had mentioned that the idea was this would go hand inand with an override if an over rde doesn't happen should this be conditioned on an override in which case this would go away um the reason why you had said that you would do it before an override is to get ahead of the legislative um because it would have to be approved by the general court is my understanding so I'm just curious about whether that condition was discussed being in there or not it was not something we had um are contemplated thank you anybody have any other questions from Mr Milano or comments maybe regarding section three or four anything on those sections um that may be of interest section five Lori I have a question um Nick we and we talked about this the 50% to 100% of the amount of the circuit breaker tax credit so um I think the actually the statute as Jay we talked about last night was $1,500 but I think currently you had indicated that the credit the total credit is 2730 can you confirm that yeah the credit increased um in the last uh tax bill that was passed so it's now um so it's yeah I think you had said3 I don't have the number right in front of me but um yeah and I know of one community that had the match at 1% of the tax credit and they actually are dialing that back to 100% match um reflecting the fact that the credit itself had just uh been increased um so we had in arranged um only because this is as a special act if you put something specific in a special act it takes another special act to change it um so we felt a range uh was um that would give the board that flexibility um so I think the conversation that we have had to date has been setting it um as when the program kicks off at a 50% match the language would allow um a range from 50 to 100% at the select's uh selection and that could change every year in theory yes could okay thank you Judy has Judy hi um in regards to um whether or not there is an overall I think we have to keep in mind that again if you pay attention to your tax B I caught you Nick it's been increasing every year just under 2 and a half% so bearing that in mind every year you're all of us whatever age group we're in your taxes your tax bill has gone up just under the 22% now take into effect that the colas for Social Security went up 2.5% for the year 2025 so if you bounce that math around on a on the napkin you're going to see that for those that are those people which is what this article is really about um they're barely keeping ahead in that regard um if you match those two things they got a 2.5% code and their taxes went up just under 2.5 for the year so that's my comment thank you thank you Judy are there any other members that have any questions as to the tax break article any of the comments J I guess I've got I've been holding off because you know we were asking it's not a question from Mr Milano oh okay he may be able to help though May oh no it just it was just musing Among Us so if we're asking for questions from Mr Milano no okay you sure everybody are we satisfied with this okay um this the fact that I have you here and our schedule kind of got a little bumpy um just in terms of what I was planning on doing tonight and tomorrow um could you very briefly talk about the Brook Road overlay District uh sure um I think I probably talk about quickly I don't even know if to talk about so is a zoning bylaw amendment that has committed by the planing board um the Genesis of it is that um there have been some court cisions that came down um that said that if you adopted an overlayer plan unit um development um zoning bylaw amendment that is not truly adopted unless you have also voted to amend your zoning map to incorporate that plan unit development or overlay District onto your zoning map um you know often times when these come forward they'll say to amend zoning bylaws as X Y and Z and to amend the zoning map to show it as this area um in this case it was an oversight that they didn't so it's it's pretty much a housekeeping adem to say we have these two overlay thect plan unit developments on our in our resorting bylaws but they didn't formally make it onto the map so now they're um asking Town meetings to just correct that um that action and oversight um so the first one is the mix uh Milton Village mixed use um plan unit Development Area or overlight so is down over on Milton Village side um so it would allow additional um growth down there and additional um height um under um certain Provisions no projects have come forward under this um as of yet and the other was very very narrow um overly um Brook Road um and I can just pull that I can pull quickly um so um I'm showing here the Brook Road one um as you can see um it covering what is essentially what three parles now two Tac parles um it allows small project at its location so both of the this is the Brook Road overlay in the warrant there are images as well is the Milton Village um overlay here um both of these are in the zoning dialogue they're in affected in uh we just have a little bit of a housekeeping guidance and get them officially on the thank you Mr Milana and these are housekeeping issues since we indicated correct yes yeah they're they're in the owning bylaws they're just not on the map and the courts are now um saying it's effective unless they're theog and on the map so this just cleans up okay great okay anybody have any questions to Mr Milano regarding the two maps in the overlay okay uh I'm going to again ask any questions about the senior tax break from Mr Milano and any questions just concerning any of the the two liquor articles they did have a question about the overlay okay we have a question about the overlay Mr Milano by member Dylan do my best this is a really brief question so I understand what the first one was for but what was the second I understand it's just an administrative thing I'm just curious what did the second overlay do so it says it to add two plan unit developments which um the very small one on Brook Road yeah uh sorry let me the my understanding of exr was that a property owners down there were considering like a a small town home type development and this overlay made that possible and then by the time it was approved I think one of the parcels actually got sold so then it never went anywhere so there two par are not in common owners anymore um so they should be condemned and it was a special permit so it's a special permit for a townhouse development containing not more than six townhouse units um in two or three unit buildings so that was the intention um I don't have the full backer on history on what happened I believe that I think somebody was trying to do a project there and either wanted to par sold or something or the interest faded away but still on a book in an old met theic building maybe yes it's a little rundown now which is one of the two Parcels that over there rund down that's an overstatement it needs to be condemned it's been on my list right to the Board of Health to suggest that that they condemn it as is the house next door with all the windows open broken and open and falling down it's a hazard um thank you Liz for that question any other questions about the districts no okay Mr Milano I think um not see any hands raised or um I think any other questions for you um I really appreciate you coming in here and helping out and uh answering some of these questions and Mr chair if there are questions I don't know where you're taking the meeting but if you're going to talk about the other articles or or open it up I'm happy to stick around if that's the case if you're sticking to what you've done so far um up to you and um so how if you want me to stick around I'm happy to well I I appreciate appreciate that Nick just because we're we're kind of up against the gun and I know it's a little we had a plan about tonight and it's kind of gone sideways a little bit um but I I would like to open it up to the committee if there's something that's been burning you all week and um here's your chance with Mr Milano um just as to I know we've already voted for the peg uh access Enterprise and the lead service line um but anything about the schools from the town administrators perspective any questions for any of those the new Cunningham project yes the new yes so Mr Milano can you you you sent along to us um a new article presented by the school building committee I believe um for a renovation of the third and fourth floors of the Cunningham uh I was going to say junior high school elementary school um could you just talk a little bit about that sure um so I put um what should be considered a draft article into this um draft warrant um I know you're hearing from the school folks tomorrow so that was our first kind of quick stab of trying to put something together I have it with um our bond Council Fort them to review to make sure the language is adequate and sufficient um but what generally um what the article would um the article obviously is the only thing that would be subject to our um control is uh just putting the town meeting members on notice as to what would be discussed so that um the article itself is pretty straightforward I wouldn't expect too much change to that but the article you know um you here we're looking at it together um um so the article would um ask you know see if the power appropriate borrow transfer from avilable fund an amount of money for the purpose of the renovation project on third and four fors of count of school the real granular detail um for the project itself I put in a draft motion because that's where uh we would um spell out the peul a little bit more the proposed um budget is the pro proposed appropriation is another 3.5 million approximately uh which would bring the total appropriation for this project so 5.5 million um if folks recall last year a $2 million borrowing authorization was included in the capital budget in article four that was a town meeting last year um and that was based on um you know recommendations of expected potential square foot costs of what that project would entail once um the preliminary design work um started and you know really understanding existing conditions what it would take to work on this space became apparent that that that budget estimate was um much too optimistic and didn't quite contemplate the full project um and so the school committee had requested that additional money be appropriated for this purpose uh which is the about $35 million and um this would entail you know a two-phase project to add additional space on the four Flo fourth floor excuse me at the conningham school which is um pretty unused now um and um construct additional classrooms on the third floor where the library is today so that's the scope of the project itself I don't I don't really want to get into details of the project and I'll let the schools speak to that um I'm you know having to talk about the article the motion or you know the I pieces of it if any of that is helpful okay uh yeah Mr Milano um I would like and I think I sent you an email about this a week or two ago uh ask about the financing and how this is going to affect the ongoing budget for example you know we can start with this one the Cunningham one that's I think simple math but you know if we borrow three and a. half million dollar what does that turn into in a annual cost it's not simple math in the sense that it requires predicting interest rates which no one can do but making a guess on interest rates how is that going to affect the annual budget and will that hit the budget starting next year starting the year after uh questions like that and then it gets a little more complicated with the uh feasibility study because we're getting 45% of that covered and we may or may not do a debt exclusion in the future so if we could get something from I don't know if it's the treasure or Miss Dexter could be in writing it doesn't necessarily need to be a personal appearance but you know if we approve the $1.5 million do we and I know you already answered part of this in an email but do we go to Wall Street and issue a bond for $1.5 million and then get reimbursed for 45% of it I I think the answer you gave me is no that's not how it works we get reimbursed first and issue the bond second but um so for both of these and I don't want to put you on the spot now but maybe for tomorrow some sense of how it affect the ongoing budget and especially with the yeah the feasibility stud is going to be sticky sure and I'll um so I'll plan to be listening in tomorrow's meeting so if um questions that or I I'll provide some answers now and then maybe if there's some Fallout discussion tomorrow happy to anticipate that so I'll actually it might be easier to kind of go in invert order and talk about the feasibility study first stu okay um and I I agree it's a little trickier in a sense because um as the reimbursing pie consider um but I have aook one here um just to take a kind of a bigger step back in terms of how the town issues day um we can issue short-term notes uh called Bond anticipation notes or bands and that would mean we borrow money on a short shortterm basis typically you know it could be 30 days it could be a year we wouldn't pay any principle in that we would just pay interest so you know borrow $10 million on shortterm note pay 4% interest a year later and then borrow it longterm after that the reason you might B issue bands is if you're building a bigger project and um you're not ready to issue the full debt for the full amount because you just from a cash flow perspective you don't need all that money up front so uh for the fire station project that we built uh the town issued short-term notes um for a couple of years before issuing any long-term debt so we paid interest but not principal for a couple of years and now we've issued some long-term debt um the reason I mentioned that is because for a feasibility study appropriation where we're designing something that is going to be subject to a vote um for the full project appropriation um it might make sense in that case um if we're in the need and our our um if we need to bring in money we would bring it in on a short-term basis until the full project is voted upon and then issue um some long-term debt um once the full project is approved if it's approved it's V I'm sorry we can't I I can't understand you you cut out about 15 seconds ago oh s all right um so I'll just I'll just refer to this slide to expl to walk through it so for the feasibility study uh um appropriation Milton has to appropriate the $1.5 million as we talked about I think in our prior meeting it doesn't mean we're going to spend all that money right away and here's just a little bit of timeline here so we're beginning uh with eligibility period and we talked a bit about that in our last meeting in the fall um presumably if we' completed all of our class in El eligibility period excuse me msba will invite us to into the feasibility study um so we will have appropriated the money we will have formed the the newer bigger School building committee we've completed all of our other tasks we signed an agreement with the school building auo for feasibility study agreement uh that stipulates what we'll study we go through consultant procurement um in the winter the feasibility study might start in the spring um and if the town has spent money through June 30th of 2025 that hasn't been reimbursed by the msba we will have to issue a short-term note to cover that um and then the study will continue until the following year approximately uh this is just kind of a um kind of a made up timeline for to illustrate the purpose of it um and then if again there's still a deficit at the end of that fiscal year there might be another short-term note and then my point of bringing this all up is likely for for the feasibility study appropriation we won't issue a bond until the full project is voted upon um and so the cost for the feasibility study would be minimal on our on our um on our budget and it also be much delayed because we won't borrow the money until August of 2026 it's usually a one-year note so now we're not making a payment on that until August of 2027 which is fiscal year 2028 so it gets complicated to kind of map it out but there is kind of a lagging effect in terms of projects that are funded by bonding from when they show up on our tax on on our budget um so in in that's especially the case with Fe disability study appropriation because a we're not going to be paying 100% of the cost we'll get reimbursed and B um if the project is approved by voters um we would roll this all these expenses into the full project appropriation and then um borrow you know a 30-year Bond at some point um for you know $60 million for the for first person portion of the project um so I know that isn't the most straightforward explanation but I just speak to um that lagging effect in terms of a borrowing authorization and when it shows up on our budget and that is also the the cting G project um and the counting project obviously a bigger um cost at $5.5 million it's a permanent change to that space so that could be borrowed for um up to 30 years for facility improvements um and what we would expect to do is have some added costs in the fiscal 26 budget and those are already rolled in as part of our our expectations for fiscal 26 um because that project is expected they're designing it working on it expected to go out to bid in the spring if the full appropriation is approved um phase one is anticipated to take place this summer so we would expect to issue some that associated with that in the fall some of it could impact fiscal 26 but really the brunt of it would show up in fiscals 27 and 28 um and I'll um I'll just get like a timate to a committee just a little bit of background in terms of what that cost would be and when we expect it to show up um to to put some numbers behind uh the commentary so I hope that wasn't too complicated other than just kind of speaking to that kind of lagging effect of the cost showing up and impacting our BS JD you have anything to follow up uh just just to put a number on it so if we're spending a total of $5.5 million on the Cunningham project and if I assume a 30-year 30-year borrowing at 4% interest which we don't know what the interest rate will be just throw that out there U my math gives me a annual impact on the budget of 320 and change $320,000 that sound about right I think I had it as close to the between 400 and 450 but o okay at a 30 year at 4% for5 half million okay I may have done something wrong or you're probably more sopis so okay so you're saying 400,000 a year yeah 400 okay not appearing in the budget necessarily next year or even the year after that but appearing in the budget in the foreseeable future okay thank you for that um I don't want to speak for anyone else but I think this question came up a few meetings ago does this address the people who are interested in this and it's been a discussion uh point at the capital Improvement planning committee where we talked about this project a couple times and and some of the you know feedback has certainly been is this is you know our capital budget on a year-to-year basis is you know replacement equipment uh a million dollars for roads facilities Improvement projects and maintenance projects it this is outside the norm of our capital budget on a year-to-year basis and would be um a significantly higher impact um than had been contemplated um when we were kind of reparing some of our Capital forecast so there will have to be you know the schools and other departments may not be able to afford as much in terms of capital spending if this is eating up a bit more of that budget over the next couple years and I know the schools are going to go back to to take a closer look at their request and and figure out uh what truly are their priorities um so we can knock that out a little bit better to to try to mitigate and at least kind of understand and forecast the impacts better thank you you have Brian and then Alison yeah Brian well um thank you um I know that I I certainly know that call C Cunningham under stress for space and I think that maybe a lot of people have a little bit of stick of shock with this amount of money for those those two floors um when I mentioned it before um for the first round I thought that M stick a shot um there was a belief that we had to go through we have to bid with Union contractors that there was a law but I want to just clarify I don't think there is a lot that says that maybe there's a misunderstanding and are we opening up for bids for multiple companies that pay should pay prevailing wage but are we going to do that do you know yes so it's public construction after 149 um it would be uh a design bid builds like well the design will go out contractors will bid based on that design um and any contractor it's better question for the architect in terms of if there's going to be any certification requirements um under $10 million in Massachusetts they don't have that any contractors don't have to be previously certified by um the state division of capital asset management and maintenance um so generally on a small dollar project under $10 million you know contractors who are qualified and there can be a pre-qualification process and whether they'll uh go through that in this project or not I'm not sure um you can't bid on the project they will have to pay prevailing wage um and we the the bid docs will include aail wage documents so folks know what those are um but that's that's the requirement where it comes to yeah there is a change in state law that now allows cities and towns to enter into project labor agreements that would more narrowly limit the field potentially it's not a requirement that cities and towns do that it's not it's that has been one of the changes that c some headlines in recent months is is is that change um that just allows cities and towns if they so choose to enter into project labor agreements but it doesn't require it the requirement that remains is Prevail wage okay thanks who does manage that bidding process um typically our projects like this the um uh staff and the the project designer will work on preparing the bids getting the bits out and um evaluating the bits okay thanks thank you Brian Allison hi um so for years we've used freea um and as you know I've been on the committee for a couple years for um you know it's always been understood that we should be using it for onetime expenses um you know and being part of the school budget for multiple years we've used free cash for positions that would eventually need to be budgeted which uh you know for many of us we were against doing that because obviously it would put on to our bottom line this is one of those things doing Cunningham that we could have essentially over the last three or four years kept that money and could have used free cash FL am I correct in saying that if I mean that's the one time it would have benefited to hold on to and we're again at this four to 5 million free cash again this year so if we had taken the last couple years essentially we could have paid for a shortterm space with this ex with the Free Cash correct yes it should free cash be used for one time at Capital items yes and it could free cash be used to fund a project like this sure um I I I wouldn't have ever really recommended you know a 5 and a half even a $2 million project be funded with free cash um this is something where um that cost can be can be issued on facilities projects you're allowed to issue bonds for up to 30 years um this is a project that's meant to last 30 years uh there's there's an argument that um it makes sense to issue debt like that to pay for major Investments um it's a burden that would be no it's a benefit that'll be um experienced by people for the next 30 Years so people who are going to be living here and paying taxes over the next 30 Years should contribute to that rather than using cash as like as a major down payment on something like this that's not necessarily something I would recommend we are using cash for Capital last year was um 1.2 million the year before that close to a million we're we're you know targeting around a million dollars again in the fiscal 26 budget um so there will be other items um in the regular capital budget that goes to the town meeting in May that will be U funded through free cash but um are on on bigger projects that are more to we typically um are able to get you know good interest rates our last Bond that went on in August was you know a 30-year note at about three and 3 and a half 3 and 1/4% um so we get good rates and uh trying to take advantage of that um for a project of this size again um we we wouldn't typically pay some this um upfront in caph well I mean um I I I disagree with that thought process but that's just my I mean additionally for short-term space has been an issue for the town um you know modular that are permanent stuff like that those are are are things that we could have used those rather than putting it into the budget line I would think that would be more beneficial than a reoccurring uh professional expense uh lot even though it's like a bigger I mean the initial buildout could have been done over a couple years where you wen't doing like a five million right away you would have had like the starting build out because they started at you know they had a couple million we could have already used that free cash from last year and the year before to start the project it wouldn't have been something that you know we're doing at a higher amount it could have been a progression of that free cash spend to um handle short-term space um as it progressed for construction each year wouldn't that is that I mean that that's just something like I think would have been for overall for the town that we would have benefit for years to come um by doing that uh my other question too is like the feasibility study commencing in Spring but yet the project doesn't start till May why would we put that 1.5 where we have more time to like you know for the mount where we could essentially is how's that how is that being I heard you it say but how are we um paying for the 1.5 is that coming out of the that's coming out of the overall like we might get it back but we have to obviously initially um pay for the cost but is it better for the the budget for it to be um longer put put out longer like we don't really need to do it in the spring to put it on the bo we would we could essentially put it in the fall or the or by the winter oh back to that that's questions about the msba feasibility study so yes there is no the town of Milton um quote unquote eligibility period with msba where we need to accomplish these tasks including getting an appropriation starts May 1st and the town has 270 days to to complete all those tasks so could the feasibility study appropriation go to the annual town meeting or some fall town meeting and we still would be in the timeline the answer to that is yes um but you know we felt we have a town meeting this has been a project folks been talking about for a long time this would be a way to get this out of the way show the msba that the town is um prepared and ready to um be working on this with msba once it gets approval to move into the next phas um it won't have an impact on the budget because we don't anticipate any expenses being paid out of that appropriation um for some time now you know we have to procure the project team before any study will commence that will take you know 9 months to 12 to 12 months for that to happen um but to your point that appropriation could take place at a later date it doesn't affect the budget in any way because we won't be borrowing against it or spending any of that money for a long time uh the impacts won't show up for a while um any eligible costs in addition uh for that feasibility study will be reimbursed by the msba um at our reimbursement rate which is right now around 45% but not yet fin awesome thanks yeah I I um I can understand I just would like us to to focus our shortterm and financial I guess um my opinion um on the committee um the importance of that's been kind of um put on you know should have been a priority for the past couple years so I just I appreciate that very much thank you thank you Allison any other questions from Mr Milano on any subject uh that it appears in the our draft W schools anything okay Mr Milano thank you very much for your time this evening I appreciate you coming in filling the Gap and uh answering uh being available to answer all these random questions no uh anytime um and I'll I'll be listening in tomorrow so if uh there's questions that I can respond to I might around uh right at 7 but I'll be jumping on the meeting um once I'm able to and I'll be on zo so comes out that I be helpful with tomorrow night as well your ears might start ringing right at 7 so but thank you very much Mr mil like I said I we appreciate your uh the extra time and maybe we'll talk tomorrow thanks ni thank you thank you very good Mr chair the formalities with Mr Milano come on we're on the record we got to be formal I appreciate it though yeah Cameron's taking minutes all right uh all right thank you all and obviously if any you know more specific questions feel free to reach out by email um or or give my office call and uh in the meantime uh have a good evening okay thank you thank you thank you anyone want to discuss it's uh it's a lot to take in it's a lot of potential debt to the town I mean that's all I keep seeing in my head is all these numbers adding and I'm thinking of it you know we were talking earlier just if you look at it in a stack bar for by person it's steep it it's a lot it's like a cable bill I mean literally like which we don't pay anymore I don't looks good until all the add-ons yeah it's all add-ons now I mean it's all of it 15 355 17 for the pipes and all this stuff and it's a lot I mean I think well a suggestion when you do your opening narrative I think it would be very helpful to convey the points how we've looked at it and you know looking at the cost and total right how it what the total cost would be if you total all the the articles for consideration and then maybe talk about what the impact is to the average person who lives here because the membership that's going to be sitting there you like I want a school that's all I care about but they don't understand that this is that cost you see you want that but like I think Alison brought up an amazing point Point bu Cunningham we've been talking about that for almost two years now they're asking for 3.5 million it's a lot right um these are things that keep me awake at night thinking about taxes long term and living in this town and thinking you know when you retire it just keeps going up and I'm not sure who mentioned it earlier it just keeps climbing I mean it's like it's big hits too because there's no commercial offset right yeah um anyway for consideration happy to help you and I know I know a guy named Jay who probably and Lori could help us write this too I think it's important I would love to see a positioning statement when we go up there to say this is what we took into consideration when we talk about this I think it's important they have no idea right if they hopefully they read the the warrant hopefully so property taxes are rising at an average of just under 2 and half% yes um what are property values right in head that's a that's a good question they are they are rising obviously um I just had my tax bill the other day I was looking at I looked at mine too uh but I don't know I I I can't give you that number that that for me as a taxpayer not a warrant Committee Member that's if it's outpacing the increase in the tax bill then it makes economic sense um if the property tax rates are rising far in excess or at a greater rate consistently than property values then then I want to think long and hard about whether I think these are fair fair fair it's a smart investment right so we want to whether you're business or municipality you want to make long-term investment that make sense that provide a return and so if the return is over a 50-year window that doesn't make sense for me as a residential homeowner right because I want to see that return in by the time I retire how would you mount that out would you do like a line graph look at for the inflection point when it hits um on that what do you what do your thought uh I mean it for me it's I'd be con concerned about rates of change uh we know the property tax or is a steady line right mhm um property values are going to rise and fall but over a 10 15 30e period if on average it is outpacing the increases in taxes then I can say hey this is this is a tradeoff that I make for being in a in a town um that doesn't have a huge commercial tax base um if it doesn't and and my kids are no longer in schools here then as a homeowner I need to think is this a is this a town that I I really should stay in long term and I I would look at it very differently if I had kids in school or in kindergarten as opposed to kids that are one in college and one not in Milton Public Schools so um awesome point okay I'd like to pick your brain a little bit more about that I mean are you talking about with with regards to potential budget override or just the normal annual 2 and a half% i me prop two and a half says our taxes are going up 2 and a half% every year except when we have an override well um let's say we in the warrant say that we think these are wise Investments and we recommend that you should vote Yes okay um what I would want to know as a a taxpayer is is why and does it make economic sense not does does it just feel good and because we should have strong schools I I want to be able to tie it to does it make economic sense for the average taxpayer uh and if you're a senior what are the ways or the tools that um on a fixed income that it makes sense for me whether is a reverse mortgage because their property taxes are rising or the senior tax uh the circuit breaker offsets it enough to make sense or whether we say hey we should raise property taxes for everyone and give residential tax exemption to get us back to Net Zero or whatever I mean um I would just want to make sure that what we are proposing isn't just going to be an additional burden 5 10 years for taxpayers in the town because we know this is not the only large Capital project that the town is going to need and so if we're saying hey this is going to have an impa material impact of an additional half million dollars a year on the budget and we've got 10 of these suckers um then uh as a taxpayer I'd want to know that are these guys just kicking a can down the road okay I I guess yeah if I can follow specifically with the 2 and a half% increase if we lived in a town where the the household the home value wasn't going up but 2 and half% that's pretty much inflation and if we weren't building new things if we weren't putting in new programs our cost would go up to an half percent just because that's what inflation is so I guess I respectfully disagree that I'd start with the oh is my home going up I guess I'm contradicting myself because your home should go up with least inflation also but I wouldn't ask is my home going up faster than my taxes are going up because our taxes have to go up to half% just to keep providing the services that we have bare minimum so I don't you're making me think but I but I would say it depends and so uh I'm sad Saied with the base level of services in the town I think we've got a great school system uh there aren't too many things that are are really problematic other than in my opinion we don't have a large enough commercial tax space um but if we're in a town with a terrible school system and we're proposing 4 4% property tax increases year-over-year and no way of my property values to catch up that's different Ian I know that Milton has a relatively strong track record in terms of property values and so that gives me Comfort that I can absorb increases in taxes without it sort of Nega negatively impacting me in the long term because I own my home um so it it it's just one piece of the puzzle for me as a taxpayer and the things that I'd want to know and I would look at it differently in a different municipality or a different town uh depending on where the base level of services are or what really are the long-term prospects like I don't worry about the town going insolvent um at least based on what I hear uh and there are other if I were in other towns I might think really differently about that and again it depends on where you are in your phase of life or whether you have kids or not you look at it differently but I think the average taxpayer would want want to know are these am I getting something in return commensurate to what they're asking for and increases Liz Judy Liz then Judy um when I look at the number of Warrant articles I'm looking at the index now so I think if you are going to take Steve's suggestion which I thought was a good one um some of these things however like the peg access Enterprise fund which we already voted that comes out of a very specific part of the budget that has to be for that liquor licenses doesn't really cost anything that's paid for by the applicant alcoholic beverages chapter 105 that's not going to really cost anything the lead service line I think we got a grant for and then was 0% interest loan for part of it the senior tax exemption is going to be off offset by other taxpayers so that is a burden on the taxpayer but not on the town so I think we have to look at for each one a lot of them aren't actually increasing the budget some of them are and I think that it's very important to tell tell meaning I agree with Steve not necessarily how people you know should think about that because to Andrew's point it really depends on what phase you are in your life and what you value I mean I might value you know many things that other people don't value and vice versa um but I think it's really important to explain to people sort of where the money comes from and then say these are the things that went into our discussion because I think that town meeting is going to vote however town meeting wants to vote but I think to inform the discussion so people know what we considered realize that we looked into all of this and to me it's not like oh 15 items all of which are going to increase increase increase taxes a lot of them do have money associated with them but they come out of specific funds or are going to be offset by other things or have you know yes you have to pay it back but there's a grand associated with it and so it's less than you know that's my only Point thank you this anyone Judy Judy yeah in regards to the comments about um values about our properties um it's why it's kind of important for I guess all taxpayers to watch that assessment because our taxes are based like so many dollars per 1,000 of your assessment so when your assessment goes up that's how your taxes go up um and and look at it and say if I had to sell my house today would could I realistically um receive that amount of money that I'm assessed for um so you have to kind of keep your eyes on where the market is because let's say the assessment now is with a a good Market a good value market but things go south you have to make sure that assessment goes down that's where you would be paying more if your assessment doesn't go down and your property taxes don't go down but if your house is not going to sell at the assessed value that's where you're overpaying your taxes if those two things can stay relatively even the assessment in the sell price the actual sell price anticipated to be closed that's where you have to keep the eye on if you're um over Tex that's my opinion on my experience thank you thank you Judy Allison um I just so we're working on the school budget and the school budget's gone up um every year percentage wise and we're at the highest this year of over 9% going up so the question like you know obviously I raised the I think you know we have to be very concerned with the amount of living off free cash for the last three four years is very concerning for me um and you know I think that that point of you know the short term and where we could spent that money in onetime use is now catching up with us and now we're going to have a 9 to 10 million override um so I think with the addition of then adding a new school um I think is very concerning I think budget taxpayer wise and as much as our home values have been pretty steady I think the economy has given people a little bit of a shock this year um and and with the inflation of groceries and living um you know I know that we I've been feeling it in my own home as well as other people um across the board so I think that's something that we need to be very concerned with but the shortterm problem that we have has yet to be addressed so you know I I think and that's why my frustration with the free cash um you know and what we we spent on um could have been done for the last couple years to because I do agree that our schools are managing what very well with the budget and our the commercial but they continue to rise and and there really needs to be as somebody who's dug deep into the schools a real evaluation of positions and really um you know addressing because i' I've said this to many you know we'll get into schools you know we keep adding and adding the admin uh the professional um you know numbers continue to go up but like really addressing you know with the budget that we have so we're at really a high increase this year and and we continue to Rise um so and I know that's due to other things like special needs you know continues and there's other factors but really digging into these budgets and these numbers and and how we spend free cash is is ultimately a factor in why we're in this position um so you know that's where I think um we could have added on to the schools modulars are you know two to three million um we really could have addressed the space issue um in the past couple of years with that free cash um because of you know the one time use was intended for so I think we need to really think about um you know kind of how we are using our our our money wisely so that we don't get caught into positions that will eventually need to be budgeted and we will need to override in order to keep up so just a few thought thoughts there and and you know we can talk about that further um but that's a very big concern uh financially for for many homes who are are having a hard time paying for groceries and and they are struggling right now so we have to be mindful of our community thank you good points Alison thank you very much Julie Joy Julie Joyce hi thanks I just wanted to sort of touch on that a little bit um it seems to me that the amount of add-ons and the amount of just real money and this is real money that we're talking about um that's it's going to be such a roadblock for so many people and on the other side of our mugs we're talking about diversity and inclusion and accessibility these are the things that keep away accessibility for an awful lot of people and and also the diversity of of Ages too I mean we're going to have being in a community with seniors is such a gift and having young you know young people being able to to be here but we're going to be a point where it's going to be you know a white CER um you know wealthy people who are going to live here while their kids are in school and then it's you know as soon as the kids are gone we're going to have this massive turnover um because that's what this community is is sort of trying to do and I hate to see that and I hate to see us getting to a point where it's um it's only going to be feasible for people really in their highest earning years to live here and I I grew up in the town and there was a lot more workingclass people and um I just think we need to keep that in the back of our heads as as we're looking at these real numbers that you know people's in the last year I know myself my homeowners insurance almost doubled I mean it's it some these are some real things happening in the last 12 months and I don't think we can ignore that um and also we don't know what what's going to happen with the state we have a new Administration coming in we've got all types of stuff happening so I just I think if there's um anytime that we really need to make sure we're we're acting um wisely this is it so thank you thank you Julie so I I did what he was talking about looked at the property values from 2013 through 2022 the increases the and he's pretty close it's I mean in in 2022 the percentage change year-over-year in value was 3% 3.03% so it's it's pretty close to what you your theory wasn't well it was a question less a theory but I mean I'm just looking I'm looking at 2022 okay yeah um and my concern is what I assume would expect is that property values can't continue to scream at high rates so what we're seeing over the last 10 years is a decrease from 4% to 3% um year-over-year and I would expect that that Gap Titan um between I mean we've got a half percent between the two and a half property increases in property taxes and um property values and so what does that mean longterm um it just means I'd be personally would be less loose with the pur strings the debts outpacing because because we know the 2 and a half% is that's not going to change or unlikely change um what is um likely to change unpredictably is a property Market values like they're either going to I guess to scream or decrease would you agree though that the Baseline changes when you add an override to that debt so the two and a half is on top of the new raise which is reflective of that override right so that Baseline is not static it grows so you're going to go here you're going to stack two and a half on top of 9 million over time that that's outpacing the value that's outpacing it that's the number that that's a thing that's um that's the number concerning huge that's what I think people need to understand I think it'd be great to have a new school I think it's great that debt is going is growing and there's nothing to recover it not excise ta my excise tax on my jeep was ridiculous this year in mil it's comical but that's how it's a it's a main pillar of revenue for our town right and so I get it building permits real estate taxes and excise tax and then commercial I mean I get it yeah and so that's not to say that I wouldn't vote for it I just would need a really strong reason to say hey this is Sound Investment because yeah be don't be Pennywise and pound foolish this um sort of to agree with uh Allison's point I think that especially with respect to our um annual town meeting where I know we're going to Deep dive into all these departments budgets M know we had talked about sort of getting a sense of each department and kind of had brought this up too so to agree with both Allison and Jay um that looking kind of at okay just because a department not to pick on the schools any Department you want has spent this money last year spent X the amount before X the amount before that doesn't mean that that's the right amount and so to kind of go back and look at okay what are the assumptions that we're making are there places where people can cut um I don't know that any Department would want to but kind of taking a second look at that was something that we had discussed and I think that that might be appropriate um especially you know maybe for the for the annual town meeting the other thing that I wanted to say too is you know I really appreciate this is very difficult because you know we look at for example this lead this lead requirement so that something that we're being mandated to do um some of these special ed costs which I place a lot of value in personally but that's another thing that we don't have a choice about we have to spend money on it and so some of these things are challenging because they're increased mandatory costs and I think we also have to think about okay as a town what are the things that we want to spend money on as well but we aren't seeing necessarily an increase in Revenue other than just taxing people's personal property tax more to agree with Steve as well because we don't necessarily have a huge commercial tax base in the town what can you do that's where we live so um you know I think that it's hard because some of this is things that we really can't do anything about but I think that you know people are going to vote whatever their values are but I think that it's to me worth really considering you know going forward at the fall town meeting in our individual departments that were assigned to look at can we talk about okay what is this budget sort of based on because every year it's going to be more and more people are going to ask for more and more nobody's ever going to ask for less but is it possible to kind of reflect back on you know sort of the assumptions that were made years and years and years ago and then also um just to summarize my other point it I just want to say I get that it's very difficult because we have this pot that we as individual taxpayers are having to pay because of our property taxes especially in this economy and every additional thing that we want especially when some of it we don't have a choice about us being mandated you know things that we might want I get it it's hard to sort of outline that that doesn't mean that people aren't willing to do it anyway but you know to Julie's point it's hard for some members of our community so you know all of that being said I think it's tough and I think that we you know each will vote for whatever we think but I think in our comments really including what went into this discussion as we talked about I think will help inform Tom meeting Peter another um piece of this is it's not like we can build our way out of this and put up more houses in the town we're limited with what we can do so that not only is a problem now but it's a pro it's not going to get better because you you can't build your way out of this you know if you're Town that's growing and you're building that more houses people are clocking in you're paying good prices you're charging your real uh your real estate taxes on a growing base it's kind of easy to continue to budget and build um I think in town of Milton I don't I haven't seen a lot of development in the 37 years I've been here so uh and I don't see that changing necessarily so where do the additional Revenue come to keep up with the added expenses that are coming is was talking about as we're all talking about I think there's you know this want to have there's need to have and we better be doing the needs versus the wants uh unless until until and unless we can find an additional Revenue stream to help out yeah Jay um I sort of want to talk this I I appreciate this has gotten into a big picture discussion can I share a couple graphs sure J please okay so I'm going to share my screen on Zoom um and this I believe is a file that I sent to the whole warrant committee several months ago u a couple things you know because if we're talking about you know should we be spending this is it worth it are we spending too much I I I get I get sort of uh un untethered unless I ask myself compared to what so I look at peer communities what are they doing because I otherwise I don't know what a town should be spending so this list of peer communities Milton is a bit below average this number is from a year or so ago sh I'm sorry I'm not sharing um let me try again okay so um yeah I don't know how well you can see it but compared to our peer communities we're a little bit below average and the next one I'm going to click on is sort of busy but it tells the story you can already look at these names and see oh things like like Welsley Westwood they ha they have a big commercial District so you know they have more commercial and they also have higher taxes uh this next graph is a little busy but this tells this point if you look at you know going top to bottom it's how much of our taxes are taken from residents side to side it's how high are our taxes we're at the top of you know our residents are paying our taxes but we're pretty much in the middle of is it paid for by commercial or not so I'm not saying I don't want more commercial development I'm just saying there's not that much of a correlation between commercial development and lowering our taxes uh I won't click on everything but Debt Service for example right now we're paying $150 per debt in debt service per resident now this number is from a year or two ago it doesn't reflect all the things we're looking at tonight it certainly doesn't reflect any new school but we're starting out pretty good compared to our peers with our debt service the things we had tonight brings us up we might still be below average compared to our peers and then of course there's disc discussion of schools which is you know brings you to perable spending you know I I realize you can't tell which town is which because I colored them all gray but what's our per pupil spending and how has that been increasing yes that's been increasing but look at all of our peers all of our peers their per pupil spending is going up and it's all higher than ours um and if I start out just say Okay 2018 start at $1 how has it grown our pup per pupil spending has grown less than all but one or two compared to all of our peers so you know it's it's hard to know what's appropriate and I I won't go on and on because this is not a general budget meeting but uh you know when we're asking what's appropriate let's keep in mind of what of the other towns do Brian uh yeah a couple things just I I wasn't going to mention this but on that graph J those towns that are listed aren't necessarily our abing towns they're I don't they seem to be like some of them look like from well-to-do communities correct but they're not even like you know necessarily close to us but I wasn't going to bring that up so my concern is you know I know we have to do something and I think most people from the concern are supportive of the school RS but my concern is I mean is the money being spent wisely or properly like I think the Cunningham project is like 11,000 square feet somebody tell me if I'm wrong but it came out to like $500 something dollar a square foot and the average cost of an office building and I don't know it know it's on an office but an office should be theoretically more expensive I would think than a school is about $350 in Boston so it seems like a high number and I've done a lot of construction projects and I I got stick of shock from it I was shocked it was going to be that much money and I think that we should really take a look at the bidding process on this I think that I get concerned that you know we didn't look at we never looked at modulus before and I know Dr Cowell mentioned at the last spee and she said oh yeah we're going to start looking at modulus now and I really think that that's something that should have been done a few years and if they're looking at it does that change what we want to do and um if we if a school new school is built does that change what we were going what we're going to do and I'm not sure we have all the answers but um those are my biggest concerns thank you Brian okay a lot of stuff um kind of I I want to go back to the senior Jack exemption I want to get a pulse from the committee on a vote on that article tonight do we think we can do a vote on this tonight I know there's been a lot of talk about language change and concerns about this and that but oh do you think we're in a position to to maybe make a recommendation for a vote uh on language maybe a vote overall l so for me because Mr Milano hasn't had a chance to talk to the select board obviously because we just brought up some of these issues tonight and the select board is meeting next week and I don't know that we'll have time between when the select board meets and when um you know to be able to make a vote and get it in the warrant on time I would say I personally would say let's have a vote because town meeting can always amend it on the floor that's just me I would say yes I am ready to vote okay anybody have okay so that's I'm going to I'm going to Take the Lead here that that's a vote on the the article as written and submitted by our select board the language they approved okay so do I hear any feelings about amending or removing or adding language to this article can I show the diagram I showed you just sure so this is good for an educational purpose especially as we move forward to the annual town meeting so I want to sh um something that this may be how actually going to hit share this may be how our evening could work out I was just sketching this out I was thinking just people were asking how does it work procedurally one way it could work what I would suggest is somebody makes a motion as presented by the select board we recommend that the town vote to authorize by the select board blah blah blah blah blah once that motion is on the floor but before we vote for it someone can say I would like to propose an amendment let's remove section g the warrant committee votes yes or no on that Amendment somebody else says I would like to make a second amendment I would like to change the word and to the word or the warrant committee votes yes or no on that Amendment and then we vote on the main motion um that that's sort of a procedural thing that's how I can see this working out and getting the getting the feel of the warrant committee Jay thank you very much and just to to take it one step deeper that would be the language that would appear in the warrant okay it's our amended language okay in the comment we talk to that and I used with J earlier the 65 we we wanted it to be 70 right we changed that and then we tell town meeting why we made that change so that that would be the procedure so really appreciate Jay mapping that out um as to that his point and what we've been talking about do I hear a motion for any Amendment as to the senior tax break article as it appears are we first going to have a motion of the to prove the article to prove it as written oh yes I'm sorry motion to approve the article I'd make a motion to approve the article as written by the select board a second can you a second second okay we ready for a vote well before we vote on that I was know after the motion is made before we vote on it sorry I was going to propose the Amendments so I would like to propose an amendment to what is on the floor and my Amendment would be to well I'll just pull this up and share it again my Amendment would be to remove section g which was the part where it said the board of assessors may deny an application if they have excessive assets and if I could I think we've discussed this a lot if I can say just really briefly sure um I think uh my colleague Lori said earlier tonight if I can paraphrase or what what what you said to what I understand is it's never going to be perfect there going to be mistakes we're going to exclude some people who should get it and we're going to include some people who should not and I on this amendment did is this an a motion for an amendment or is this discussion on the original motion it's a motion for an amendment to the article I understand that but there's commentary it should just be a motion yeah I'm speaking to the seconded and then opened up for discussion J jumping ahead that's my opinion Mr Chair say so I make the amendment and I guess it has to be seconded normally on the floor of town meeting the moderator his would let people explain why yes usually that he does they're amending it otherwise we don't really know why we're doing it yeah but it's up to you no so Judy he's going to say why he's doing it because that's how town meeting works so Jay okay why are you moving real quick um it's just both of these are we might make the mistake of excluding people who should get it or we might make mistake of including people who should not get it and I'd rather make the second mistake I'd rather make the mistake of including too many people and that's all I'll have to say about either of these amendments I have a slightly different take which is to keep G but amend that to give the board of assessors discretion to either um hear an appeal or exclude someone um based on any owner any member any owners of the property in the applicant group in the application process okay so there's a comment to Jay's friendly Amendment your so we're going to talk we're going to talk as to the so does it does a comment that a member has a difference to the amendment does anybody want to speak to Jay's Amendment we're voting on his Amendment first okay you need a second I second it so we can vote on it m i mean it's sort of I'm trying to get I'm trying to get a sense of process and so if we let's say we vote on the the article as is and we say no and then we vote on Jay's we say no and we vote on mine we say no like we're going to do this serly I would rather here the universe of options and then vote vote at the end is that or I mean what's a process which I think is we have to go through we have to vote in each in order oh gosh that's the rules like and then the town meeting then you got to go back to the amendment as written and then you go through like yes it is a very so that's why same with k j oh no you have hands that's all Julie jul you get to it no no we'll just we'll settle this now Julie I real quick I'm sorry jay this question is for you are you did you just want to make sure I understood you did you just say that you wanted to re fully remove the asset test yes fully remove what's written in section g yes okay thank you is it Judy yes I'm not going to be quick to remove the asset defeats the purpose and intent of this article I a senior I roam around with seniors as well as other age groups I like young people's ideas I like to listen to them I'm not exclusive to my peer group however to Grant a tax exemption in a way to somebody that has the means to own more than one property is not where the intent of this article is as a senior I have owned other properties and in fact that is my situation today as I speak I have a Milton property and I have another property in the state I do not feel that any senior that owns more than one property should be able to have this tax break I feel very strongly about this because if you are able to own another property you are able to pay your tax bill again I speak from experience speak from my age group and it is a very necessary component of this article the spirit and intent of the art rical will be compromised if this is removed from section g and that's it that's all folks anyone remember that s morning cartoons That's all folks see none of you are old enough to do that all right byebye thank you dud uh any other questions or any other comments on Jay's friendly Amendment this is a question sorry Liz go ahead Liz when you go ahead no that's okay um I don't think you're I don't agree that it gets rid of the asset test I agree with Jay that it gets rid of section g somebody who's an applicant who owns the property this do out at the property would still have to meet the circuit breaker there's still an asset requirement that's built into the circuit breaker exemption you still have to meet 1 2 3 4 this part section g provides the board of assessors with a new ability that my understanding Mr Milano said they don't normally have because normally they just apply exactly what the statute say say here they're having a new ability to use in their discretion based on a determination that's yet to be be made and a policy that would be in place later to deny an application if they find that the applicant has excessive assets and we talked about the fact that we didn't know what that meant I still think that there's a means test and an asset test that would be somebody who's apply the taxpayer who's applying for this thing has to be eligible for the circuit breaker which itself has a means I'm not saying how people should vote for it I'm just saying I don't really agree with that it's good point can I sure Lori I think the to that point the circuit breaker does not prove that you have assets that are bricks in mortars it does not it does not delve into the fact that you have multiple properties I went through that circuit breaker today like I had to fill it out and I go nobody wants to know about my other property so say everything fit in all the boxes I could apply for circuit breaker go down to the town hall not tell anyone about my other property get a relief on this property and then say oh that was a good deal huh I'm against this you're not looking at it through the lens of where the circuit breaker actually is plus take this into consideration Nick Milana was with us tonight and he says the towns that have this provision consider asset review only to be excess property so the circuit breaker takes care of all your bank accounts and your income and your iris and your Fidelity accounts maybe they miss your Cayman Island account but they don't check how many properties you have I could have 10 properties and still perhaps get through the circuit breaker why would I be entitled to a tax breaker in my town that I am now going to take my particular tax break and parcel it out to all the other taxpayers in town my little portion I understand it's very little portion why would I do that why would that should be allowed it shouldn't be the the taxpayers in this town should not take on a burden however small it is because you have multiple properties and it doesn't show in the circuit breaker and you're going to pick up a portion of their tax tax break no very unfair to the citizens and taxpayers at this time and it's immoral I too because you could get away with it if you don't have that um guideline I can't think of what I want to say oversight so I got a house down the cave I got a C house here and I'm going to not claim that asset that doesn't show in the circuit breaker and then just you know my neighbor who's struggling you know they have young kids they just bought a house where's the Morality In that there is Noone thank you Bri has this Peter I'd like to um state that we haven't made this up from whole whole PLO this is not the town's idea of hey let's do this it's been done in other towns it's been done exactly the way it's been laid out here and it seems to be working there we have a lot of ways this could go sideways but I don't know I think we spent way too much time talking about this issue when it actually is working in other towns it's here it's a good idea we all agree that we want to give seniors a break we want to keep seniors here in the town we could be here till midnight we're going to be dancing around on this which is why I would like to see us vote on this as it stands this evening being right now I thank you for your comment Peter we have Brian wants to chime in I'll be quick I do absolutely agree with Jay um I think the whole definition of excessive assets is really arbitrary I mean it could be a boat it could be motorcycles I don't know and I think the issue with people wearing about people having just too many properties like you'd have to be paying like this is such a lowincome group you have to be paying taxes on all those properties so you could theoretically you could have a small piece of property that you have inherited from your parents or something and maybe doesn't cost that much and then you're booted out on this and I think it's that's going to happen more than anything else also the third thing is is the board of accessors like you're putting this burden on them that they don't have right now and who's making that decision was acccess asset you know now I don't want to believe with this either but that's my two cents Brian thank you very much um okay does anybody want else want to speak to Jay's Amendment to the home Ru petition for seniors mean tested task exemptions Liz yes I have my hand raised okay Judy would be Liz then you um if you want to really look at it any senior could go in and say no they don't have any property sign them sign the sheet and it's a done deal they still get the tax break you need you to leave that in there for future amendments as other towns find you know little hiccups here and there and um you know you want you want to leave your options open and it doesn't mean that the just because you fill out of form so you have another property doesn't mean it doesn't say there that they're going to deny you it does not say anywhere we will deny you but it's an option that's in place should there be hiccups thank you Judy Liz so to Brian's point about what an excessive asset is if the select board were concerned I understand that other towns have implemented this exact same thing I personally think Melton is a special town that should feel free to implement its own rules and while I would prefer to go home as well I know that the more we talk about it now hopefully the less we'll have to talk about it at town meeting and that's a lot more people Happ to stay up so um in the spirit of trying to um save everybody else from staying up late into the night thinking about it um I am a firm believer that if it were the select board's intention to say that if you own more than one property that the either you are automatically denied or you may be denied by the board of assessors it would say that here it says that they may find that you have excess of assets exessive assets is not defined Nick Milano said that the board of assessors would have to then create a policy that's not something that they normally do to Brian's point I also don't want to overburden the board of assessors Lori had mentioned I know that we're tight on time but Lori you had mentioned before about asking the board of assessors how they feel about it and whether they would feel overburdened by this I don't know I think it's worth discussion okay we're going to vote on that and to vote yeah thank you um Now's the Time for this so I I I would Liz I appreciate the com comment was there anyone else with their hand up no okay I'm going to let's let's do a vote on Jay's Amendment okay um so Jay moved to amend the home rule petition for senior means tested tax exemption by removing section g in its entirety okay that is the motion on the floor it's been seconded by Liz yes so we can have okay so I'd ask Karen to uh let's have a vote sure please pull the uh committee Tom uh no Steve no Lori no Liz actually no Jay yes Allison no Julie Joyce no no Andrew no juliia Maxwell no Peter no Brian yes Ron no Judy yes no no no is my answer no is my final answer the motion does not care okay okay now we're back to the original motion as written and submitted by the select board do I hear any amendments or any motions regarding that language I saw Jay first I just cuz I saw I had a point of order not an amendment point of order if if Andrew now wanted to propose his motion to that section you could if you want yeah of course I would like to ask one really quick question which is if I okay I got to stop I recognize Jay to speak I appreciate the the back and forth no that's fine um Jay what did you have to say I was going to make an amendment okay so Mr chair you ask okay so so you're making an amendment and unless you would prefer to hear from another member right now well I was I wanted to hear from him because I knew okay that's what he was going to do so do I hear any other amendments to the language of the article as written no I just have one quick question question is if this is broken regardless of what we vote on it could be remedied next year right it can be remedied at any time either by the select board the board of assessors so there's no or a citizen there's no permanent harm there's no permanent harm unless anyone else can see it other side this can always be brought back at any point the select board sees fit or they're asked to by another committee I.E the assessors so all I needed to know okay Liz point of order yeah okay and um as I mentioned before town meeting could decide to amend it at town meeting as well they also could and if you think this is chaotic that's why I'm not a town meeting member this is so smooth J is I'm not telling them to do that Absolut they want to they could um I thank you thank you for the point of order and Jay I would like to propose a second amendment please which is in part D where it says refers to a person that has been domiciled and owned a residential unit for blah blah blah at least 10 years Chang the and to or and also the word in seemed to be missing so I'm adding that in so it would be domiciled in or owned a residential unit property for 10 years and I think we've discussed this topic a bit so I don't have anything else to say about it at this time okay so as to Jay as a motion on the floor for a home rule petition for a senior's means tested tax exemption to add to strike the word and in subsection D in in subsection D of section D and replace that with an or so the sentence in D would read the applicant taxpayer has been domiciled or owned a residential unit of real property in the town of Milton X Y and Z is that accurate J domiciled in I'm also adding the word do but that's just like a typo okay okay that's the motion do I see a second yeah I second them Liz seconds the motion let's put that to a vote Jay's Amendment as it applies to section two subsection D of the senior tax exemption Liz I'm so sorry may we comment about that or are we just voted well I had a comment about we no no we can engage comment I was I had assumed as the chair we had spoken to it enough but it feel free to comment well I wanted to say that this is the reason why I didn't vote in favor of amending section g so okay because noting Judy's concern I was concerned about someone who owned multiple units of real property too and I know I was explaining about sort of why we might want to have that Amendment but I personally think that if you say in ailed in or owned my concern would be someone who hasn't lived here at all and then comes in in the 10th year and so that would be the thing that I would think the board of assessors would be able to prevent against so that's why I didn't vote to remove section g personally okay thank you clarification J so it is a taxpayer so it's a homeowner who is either domiciled here for 10 years is that correct we're not talking about renters it is a current homeowner but if they if they bought their home yesterday but they previously rented for 10 years they would be included or as the example I gave a minister a minister who re hires yeah okay point of claric we all have our EV okay any other comment on any comment or on J's Amendment or J's Judy thank you Liz I understand exactly where you're going with language the language as proposed needs to be changed because as I understand this amendment as Liz pointed out um domiciled what was it domiciled or repeat the exact language of the amendment again it could be somebody that's a non-resident the way the language is Liz is absolutely correct on that so the language no not as just can of worms that finish up J if you weren't domiciled in the ownership portion who is right check out C check out part C part if I if I may um part C of of this um proposed law says it has to be the domicile of the taxpayer today so maybe you weren't living here for the previous 10 years but you got to be living here today if you want this tax break I think that addresses what the member just raised do you Andrew have a comment no I I I agree that that Jay's accurate in saying that lived and I just want to be clear that I think the spirit of the law is to um protect homeowners from being forced out of the because they no longer can afford the taxes on it um and that is different than a renter in my mind y a renter is I don't well it be great to have someone stay in the community um I to be harsh it's we're in a capitalist Society like it they don't they don't have an entitlement in perpetuity to stay in the town as unfortunate as it is thank you um okay does anybody have any other comment as to Jay's Amendment seeing no other hands raised let's put it to a vote right Jay's amendment to section d d of section two of the article Karen you can read the role sure Tom no Steve no Lori no Elizabeth Liz yes Jay yes Allison no Julie no Andrew no Julia yes Peter no Brian no Ron r no Jud no the motion does not carry okay now we are back to the original article as written and submitted by the select board do I see any hands for any further amendments uh or language changes as to this article on tax relief Liz can you pull that back up I'm so sorry I would propose that it said Part D change would say has been domiciled and own a residential unit of real property in the town of Milton for at least 10 of the past 15 consecutive years okay so your Amendment would be reading in part in the town of Milton for at least 10 out of the past 15 years is that accurate yes okay out of the past 15 years right so is that the exact language I don't know where consecutive would fit in I guess you would have to delete that's not what I said but you're correct so I agree with you okay thank you are do you mean to correct so for town of Milton for at least 10 of the past 15 years prior to filling an application for this exemption noting that c requires that the parcel be your current domicile yes okay do I have a second to lizz's amendment to change to add language to subsection D of section two of the article is there a second second I think Julia Julia second yep do we have a discussion my my my opinion is the article as written is imperfect however knowing that it could be modified if we are causing excluding a large number of people um I would much prefer to adopt it the language as is than to pick an AR arbitrary number of like 10 out of 15 15 out of 10 10 of the last 15 years and what's the difference between that in 12 or 17 or 12 out of last 18 years um and so I I would rather see the discretion to in article G give the the assessors some discretion um I would prefer to see it Go in both ways but let's start with that and then change it if it is unfairly excluding a number of people or um the budget allows the program to be expanded I mean I'd love to see um it expanded to a larger group but right now we're we're facing some real practical re realities um so apprciate J did you have a comment or I I'm just taking a fresh look at the language not not amended um that you have to have lived in and owned a a piece of property for these 10 consecutive yearsi prior to filing an application uh now I'm thinking that means if you lived here for 10 years and then you moved away and then you moved back you're still fine because you lived here for 10 consecutive years prior to filing an application am I reading that correctly I say immediately prior has been domiciled and owned yeah okay so between 1980 in 1989 I domiciled an own the house here that was 10 consecutive years prior to my filing this application and then you move back and are currently Dil yes so it doesn't say immediately prior it just says prior at some point prior I I hadn't realized that before but if I'm reading that correctly I think that addresses the concern that Miss Dylan had and the reason for making her Amendment am I reading that correctly well as the language you know for at least 10 consecutive years prior to filing yeah so in that case if you lived here for 30 years you moved away for five you come back technically it was 10 years prior now is it supposed to say 10 years immediately prior I don't know one could fight about that but in that case the way that it's written yes I would make that argument if I were a person applying for it sure sounds like the assessors may have somewh does that does that get rid of the need for your Amendment yeah so I think that's yes yes I withdraw it you withdraw yes so the amendment so lizz's amendment to section to subsection D has been withdrawn on the record we are now back to the original article as submitted drafted and submitted by the select board Lori and um I'm uh any any further as the moderator will ask any further discussion as to this article seeing No Hands raised um do I have a motion for a vote on the article as written I motion another motion yeah have we have to do okay so we're back to the original motion for the motion approve the language submitted by the select board vote Karen please Tom yes Steve yes Lori yes Liz yes J yes Allison yes Julie yes Andrew yes Julia yes Peter yes Brian yes Ron yes Judy yes motion carries okay thank you thank you all are we allowed to comment and point out that flaw to the yes I actually see it as a flaw in yeah we're going to assign comments tomorrow and and we can we can feel questions and I'll be available all weekend to feel them too okay I don't think it's a good idea to entertain any more business tonight are we agreed on that I going let's keep going come on let's let's stay till midnight I'm always prepared to say why why wait for tomorrow when it's when it's only 2 hours stand home and I I'm going to do work when I go home so um same honestly do we we have five articles remaining three schools the two liquor okay uh mind thought of the chair I think we can get through the liquor ones pretty easy schools probably not so much so five articles tomorrow I think one of the alcohol ones will take a lot of discussion or might and one will not yes true so we just just a little drop hole on on the first on the five liquor licenses I mean that should not do you think we're ready to vote I'm ready to on the five liquor license I'm ready to Let's get one more I like it let it R I appreciate you are there any hands are there any hands as to the that article and staying on the vote are we all good with that Zoom audience yep okay good okay so as to the home rule petition for additional liquor licenses do I hear a motion for a vote on the article so seconded second any any discussion okay Karen could we place this put this to a vote to the committee one second sure moving F she wasn't expecting it no that's in the that's the spring the open to go home already shutting down your computer uh who second who moved all and Andrew seconded okay um Tom yes Steve yes Lori yes Liz yes Jay yes Allison yes Julie yes Andrew yes Julia yes Peter yes Brian Brian I think you said I oh we may have lost somebody I thought Brian is gone he's already drinking yes is that me Ron Ron I think Brian I think Brian said yes and this is Ron I say yes oh I couldn't hear sorry okay and Ron says yes as well thanks Ron thank you Judy Judy I think we were one down so she may be gone left all right the motion carries excellent good job everyone thank you committee anything else how about the zoning math one oh yeah on the agenda uh the agenda said and anything else yeah the housekeeping okay I like it thanks J I appreciate this committee so much tomorrow so yeah don't even though we don't know if there are any citizens Vis okay getting up the hill but we're cruising down it right now okay so these are as explained by Mr Milano um there are um there are two articles submitted by the planning board uh ones to um actually I don't think it says vote no it doesn't doesn't vote was only to sorry jay okay so for tomorrow I appreciate not with vote but we could I could revise the agenda because it's already posted I could do a revision okay what we're going to do is for tomorrow we're going to Karen was very nice our clerk she's going to amend the agenda it's going to be repost in the assignment with an amendment the amendment will indicate vote and we can include if you want to include car in all of the Articles including the ones we haven't even seen yet got we could do that in particular we're looking at the overlay that the zoning yeah that's I would add zoning bylaws Amendment the zoning map the site plan review accessory dwelling units I would just um essentially the entire right here article more okay um okay so tomorrow we have four okay so um just I just ask you just bring all your questions for schools like it let's air it out tomorrow let's get all like try to settle the issue and see you know I I trust we'll have a vote on some of these others these will be easy votes the schools I I expect some discussion so Liz Can you remind us who all is coming with regarding the schools tomorrow everyone everyone including Dr burrow will be here so the school committee chair school committee chair will be here committee chair I don't know if Mr or is going to be I'm going have to check my email to see who was going to be here okay are you do you need someone here specific I'm just curious curiosity oh no yeah it'll be like the same school group Dr baros had a meeting elsewhere he rescheduled that meeting to be here so he is obviously very interested in the message to the war committee but I can uh I'll touch base do you know about next week not yet we'll tomorrow that's okay okay um motion to adjourn motion to adjourn yes Steve do I have a second yes Liz yeah all in favor yes I thank you everybody see you tomorrow at 7 good [Music] he [Music]