##VIDEO ID:y2vVHCMT5uQ## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening welcome to the warrant committee it's uh January 5 15 2025 Karen could you um call the attendance please sure we have Tom calwell Lori Connelly Elizabeth Dylan Jay funling Macy Lee on Zoom Brian Maguire and Aman nagasi and Judy steel are on Zoom you have a quorum thank you thank you everyone for uh being here and for those watching at home um as you can could see or if you haven't from our post to agenda we have a presentation from the head of our DPW uh tonight uh we're concerning lead pipe inventories plans and Replacements um as we know here on the committee there are two articles uh we're going to be looking at for our town meeting next month concerning the work that DPW is doing regarding our lead pipe Replacements um so we have our town um we have a representative for the town Miss Mar Ena Fernandez here uh Miss Fernandez if you want to come up and uh for those of you at home um there was some information forwarded to you concerning final uh lead and copper um rule uh improvements here in the town uh so that document is on your email for your review I've also handed out some hard copies uh for members of the committee who are present it's going to be the basis of Miss Fernandez's uh presentation for us tonight um and just to preview a little bit I know that there's going to be a maybe a little change in the ask from DPW concerning these articles that we're looking at so uh Miss Fernandez the floor is yours if you could just introduce yourself um and get going thank you uh Mr Codwell my name is Marina Fernandez I'm the newly appointed director of Public Works here for the town of Milton uh thank you so much for having me this is a very passionate issue a very passionate topic and um I'll be happy to answer all of your questions hopefully um just want to start by letting you know that the changes that I'm requesting today uh initially there were two asks one for $1.7 million for an MW uh program for the lead uh replacement and and test pits construction project here in the town that was a 25% Grant and 75% uh loan from the MW that's still moving forward uh what I'm asking to be removed was the 100% Grant portion of the D program uh that program is unfortunately no no longer available um so we were initially I was in front of this board board two years ago we requested I believe at the time $300,000 which is what the results of all of this study and the work that we've done over the two years uh so it's pretty exciting to be back here and and show you the results and and how it's leading up to new work but unfortunately that program is no longer available we try to extend it it's just not there so that will be removed uh we will review that with you in the future if um we we still have to do some work to see if it's still cost effective to do the program that I'll be discussing here today so if would you like me to go over the paperwork just a summary of how would you like me to proceed yeah so I I appreciate that Miss Fern so just so everyone knows in the the two articles um Miss fernandz referring to the second one concerning the lead pipe uh and um this was a program through uh the United States Environmental Protection Agency and um obviously those money no longer being available this won't be an article that we're going to ask town meeting to consider um so the focus will be on the single article um which would be and if I if I may miss fernan is to see what sum of money the town will vote to appropriate to provide Capital needs for the town's Water System including costs incidental and related theto and to authoriz a select board on behalf of the town to apply for and use federal state MW and other funds for this purpose to see how much appropriation shall be raised and whether by borrowing under applicable provisions of the law or otherwise and act anything on related there too and this was submitted by the select board and that sum is $1.7 million is the request okay now that that's um out of the way I want to congratulate you on your new position within the town um it's fantastic thank you for all the work you and your team do for us and um again if you just want to just begin just by presenting some of the materials you have um that'd be great sure so this is all very fresh on October 8th of last year uh the US EPA the Environmental Protection Agency announced a final new regulations in regards to the lead and copper rule um that rule um is pretty much in part um was put together to um because that is a physical and behavioral effect of lead could occur in uh both children and adults um there is Curr currently no uh adult dose of lead that would have little effect on adults but it could affect children so the town of Milton has been working diligently to proactively address uh the concerns and the requirements of the new rule um as of very recent as well on October 16th the 2024 right after the final rule was made um was made available the town submitted to the D uh our account our our logging of all of the materials within the town um and that I want to emphasize that that is a a moving Target we're always uh coming up with u new information uh ledgers really old ledgers that um prove uh the material uh of either portion of a water service so everyone has a water servic is in their house that water service has two portions it has the private portion which is from the main that's on the street usually to the um the the curb shut off a curb shut off is either located in the back of a sidewalk if you have a sidewalk in front of your street of your house or around it's pretty much around your property property line and then from the property line to the house that's the private portion we were tasked by the EPA to understand the materials of both sides and that was an immense amount of work leading we could only use uh evidence um in our guesses you can't just guess oh this side is copper it looks pretty young pretty new and we seen so we were very um we had to be 100% sure only certain type of information is accepted by the EPA um it can't be just a piece of information floating around it has to be in one of our records within the town so everything is really dictated by how the EPA will accept in order not to be in confusions once that work was done around October 16th everyone here in town received a letter in on November of of November 16 of of last year that let them know whether or not they were in the categories of either having a galvanized known galvanized and if you look at that the table below which has recently as recent of December 16 so this table is not even the same table was the November 16 letter that went out to Residents because that got updated from that point on um but the ones that are highlighted in Black are the ones that pretty much received the Letter People folks with uh G cized lead or unknown services our main goal here is to continue to rule out the unknowns um right now we have approximately 4,000 properties that have either one side or another side and when I say 4,000 it's not the 3,163 that you see on the table plus the 100 1,581 because that portion could overlap you could have a house that both has uh unknown um uh or just one piece of unknown on one of the services does that make sense um so um and then to answer another question folks would have received both if they were residents as well as if um they uh I'm sorry if their owner occupied as well as the tenant will have received those letters so just want to emphasize that as well um so now with that piece being done um The Next Step that we seeing and and what the EPA has told us through this new rule is that by October 2027 it would require that all municipalities within pretty much all over the United States and um they will start the clock will start ticking everyone will have 10 years to remove all known uh leads and to uh understand all the materials within the entire community so what we're trying to do here is put out this constru ruction project which is the $1.7 million ask which will include um the replacement of 78 uh either lead or galvanized services within the town inclusive of both the uh private and the public SE portion of the of the service um as well as uh complete 500 exp exploratory pits um that will be done in a in a location that could so you do the the exploratory pit at the proper line so you can look at both sides so that um rules out the unknown portion of of both sides um and it will be done in in conjunction with um so the way it it would be done so that if eventually we were to do a uh a model um a statistical model of the town we would build in this 500 in order to use the statistical model to further um to further um reduce the number of unknowns why do we want to do that now we are going to be along with all other communities within Massachusetts within New England within the United States so the cost to to take out lead is going to just going to start going up because of the not only the harm that it could be done to our residents um but financially it's going to start costing and we're going to end up owning it anyhow so the the idea is to get a head start get the learning curve and and get those that we know today out of the ground um so with that being said I will open up if if I'm sorry if you would like to ask any additional questions I'll be happy to answer I'm sure that there are many sure sure well thank you I'm as friend as I appreciate that information I appreciate the information you provided on paper for us um want to open this up to members of the warning committee Bri got some questions first congratulations thank you appreciate that um who's doing the work do you know we this is this is a bitable project like every other construction project here in town um through chapter 90 uh loss yeah um the math General loss it has to be bid so we don't know who the construction the contractor will be um the we have we will be retaining CDM Smith who has done this leg work through the grant uh to put together the plans and specifications required um to put the project out to bid and probably bidding will be done in house toward the engineering Department although we do not have an engineer right now A Town engineer um and 1.7 is an estimate it could go a little higher could go a little lower correct correct uh the but we would contain ourselves ifin know 1.7 by doing several different techniques in the bidding uh where we do add alternates so we if if we have a very um uh a cost effective you know a contractor is putting really good price out we can add more but we wouldn't potentially have to rebid the entire project because we've exceeded that does that make sense yes one of my thoughts is like right now on my street in some other streets they do they going through the gas lines they're digging up the street for the gas lines is and there's probably a lot of other projects like that is there a way to coordinate it when you go into a street just to try to do it all at the same time we've been coordinating the unknowns so our goal is to get the as many unknowns into the known category that I think is the game of name of the game I believe that at the end of the day we're going to be at once everything is done and if I ever have to do a write up you will see that we've spent more money categorizing all of the services the the the all the thousands of services in town than actually finding lead and replacing those leads um so thus far because we're not replacing we are coordinating all of our work within town with lead with this program so for example watermain projects we've done uh about eight streets within the town in the last three years all of those water services if we were doing uh water service we do the private the public side along with the main uh if a private side was also was led we would replace that along with our work and the and and that was the um protocol because EPA and the and the engineering community now understands that once you disturb the lead on the public side you are dist you will disturb it on the private side and then you'll start poisoning those residents that could potentially not have been poisoned before so we replace the entire service so conjunction with that that has been happening um in terms of the National Grid work we have been if they encounter lead as part if they encounter Water Service any water servic is exposed our technicians come out and if it's lead then it it it is made into our list um drainage work any work that we encounter service and if we see it Leed it's being noted in our program uh I don't know if you recall but we have an ongoing water metering program where were're replacing the water meters since 2014 around the entire town we so we are very that's one of the reasons why we know the uh the the service material for sometime for much more private than we know the the public because our technicians have been and have been noting the materials coming out of the house along with the metering program which is still there there's many uh I'm not sure the percentage of the town that doesn't have their water meters changed but um every opportunity of seeing observing or being able to change a service it's being done along with all these other types of projects not not only gas okay great thank you that's great Jay uh thank you so you said we have 4,000 that are unknown approximately corre and you talked and you also said the EPA requires I forget how you phrased it hard evidence not just educated guesses and then so we're digging 500 holes and putting those into a statistical model I guess that that's what I'm wrestling with you dig 500 holes out of 4,000 okay that's one out of eight that's pretty good then you put in a statistical model does that model just tell you other houses are likely or unlikely to have Le and does that meet the threshold so the the the statistic model it it's a very robust um and it's it's one of the only statistical model accepted by the EPA okay um right now the statistical model you don't look at it at as 500 eliminating 4,000 that's not the goal you look at it the 500 will build up the model in order to maybe reduce the 4,000 another 40% okay okay and that's why we removed that second line from the request because it made sense when it was a 100% Grant but now if we have to fund all of the required uh the model uh to build that model alone is $100,000 in addition to some additional test fitting um at one point that balance is going to tip and I might as well just continue my my old school fashion test spit all of the unknowns and get it done does that make sense you lost me at the end there I'm sorry so instead of and and again don't quote me on the cost but if if the test pitting I'm sorry if the hydraul if the statistical model alone is $100,000 MH and if it costs me again I'm don't have those numbers if for for Simplicity if it cost me $1,000 to do test bits at one point it would make more sense to just do the test bits and not go into the model to do 4,000 test pits for example okay the good news also is I just spoke with the engineers and we found some older Ledger um and they're there were 15 older ledgers inside a vault um that were found after this date and my Engineers right now are telling me that they are reducing the number of unknowns by another a th000 to 2,000 just through those multiple very old ledgers that have been found very detailed and it it's it's very it's great great news so that is why I believe that perhaps I will not be returning here asking for the statistical model I I think you know I I think that with this new information if you knock it down by 2,000 you might want to dig 2,000 test pits day yeah okay that's too bad because I had a lot of questions about toal to model okay but uh but that'll have to wait for another day there's a whole website I will be more than happy to um send that I know a lot of other communities um are going that route if they don't know because a lot of and and the other thing that um I I didn't mention is there's going to be a point that the EPA is going to I believe that after October 2027 the number of Replacements that a community will be requested to replace it will not only be based on the Gnomes Lads but it will also be based on unknowns and we as Milton because we don't have as many leads as we do unknowns it would become more difficult to dig up faster in order to find the the lead in order to meet our quotas I'm sorry I did not follow that but I I trust you yes I did I followed so just let me I didn't mean to so Liz what does it mean to you well no no I understand and um I Look to Jay sometimes when numbers and Lori um but if yeah I'll explain explain let me rephrase it so having 4,000 unknowns is very bad because starting in October 2027 if I tell the EPA that I have 4,000 unknowns in 40 leads they're not going to go back to me and and say all right Milton replace lead in 10 years at four lead four houses a a year which will take out my 42 they also account for the unknowns and then on the unknowns they're going to say a percentage of unknowns are LED right which you will greatly I believe and that's what mwa is telling me it would be much more it could be now replace 40 leads well in year one I'm going to have to replace all of mine and then on year in year two I'm going to be scrambling finding another 40 I might not even have 40 they're inside the unknown bucket okay thank you okay thank you you're welcome um any other member have any questions I'm going to dive in I just wanted to see maybe just about the MW itself and I think it's very appropriate to talk about tonight it's because water bills went out so so I just thought it was funny um so I just wanted to talk about the or ask you about the um the zero Loan program that the MW is offering and we apply to that right yeah well and are you talking about the water or the sore um for the removal and replacement of the portion of the lead so was there an MW it so this program is the 7 25% Grant yep so 25% of the 1.7 will never have to pay it back okay the 75% is at 0% interest okay mwa gives us a lot of different programs like this um a lot of zero interest we use it all the time on the water side and um the warrant committee votes on it every year mhm uh as well as on the sewer side and that that the mechanism in which we replace water mains here in town as well as uh we uh maintain and replace our sewers and do all the work we've been able to do okay did I answer your question well yeah I I just didn't know if um if there was like a a if the MW opens this up to all communities or if we have to apply or we have to apply and it's dispers quarterly okay unfortunately we will miss this January quarterly because the appropriation has to be in place in order to be voted and an agreement be in place with us we'll take advantage of it in April so if this moves forward the schedule right now would look like in April I would have a appropriation so we could go out to bid in April for this work to happen this summer okay um let me add about the work itself uh if you know maybe based upon other communities is this work that like will it really would it commence that quickly okay yes um it the the initial leg work which will probably be done by the uh DPW engineering department is to get uh access um agreements with the homeowners uh water service are we change it in the in the the public side all the time the private side so for right now the 42 that are known they all know that they have lead they've all been um notified and we also have a requirement to do sampling at those locations so they receive sample results back as well um most folks love the idea of getting it replaced believe it or not some folks will not sign the agreement for us to replace that lead um and there's nothing we can do about those right okay um how would the EPA look at something like that like if if you have a homeowner like I don't want you in here don't bother like what bucket does that go I believe that after October 2027 there will be a whole set of documentation that we will have to prove to the EPA that we've we've done our due diligence that we've um done everything we can but but for the homeowner right Mak an agreement and then at that point there might be a requirement once it changes ownership that the sale might not move forward and I'm making a speculations uh but I'm sure we'll see something that will need to be done and either on the on the ordinances as a town ordinance requirement or in the EPA level but be seeing something like that I'm sure and I this is more maybe for for the public uh think we have a good idea but you know this process where you would approach a home that you've identified as lad as you just indicated how does the process like what does the town do and how do they approach the homeowner and what's the conversation like like how how does that we are replacing the service or generally with results but I'm just saying like uh in hypothetically if you've identified a home that has lead in it uh as you would just in your illustration um what does that look like uh what should a homeowner expect how does the town approach them and you know what's the agreement look like it's more of just an idea if your house does have lead what do the town ask so they will have known the if they have led they are known and again this is a that this is the reason why the current inventory date is of December 16th because again this is moving Target of the people that have just been unnotified most folks just want to get it out of their systems right away regardless of cost and they're paying for their own private service to be replaced some are unable to do so and they've been living with that service LED so they they get into um a yearly a yearly um lead uh sampling program through our water department and those locations uh will notify the if their lead has exceeded cuz again lead could technically not that anyone here is ready to gamble on it but lead could live in a service material and not leak into the water for the longest longest period of time until it leaks right so it it's that's the the the name of the game here that nobody wants to uh play um but folks will have LED and they will enter this yearly program of of of uh sampling and we have the town of milto has not had any exceedences uh which is great news um but with with with that being said once we commit to replacing They will receive a new form of notification saying that the now town is ready to replace their service uh likely sometime oh we've we've we'll let them know I don't know if any of you have had water services uh U water mains being replaced in the near in in this past um but basically you get a letter it says who the contractor is uh it will give you a timeline it will likely have a an agreement for them to review they will probably contact me or the town engineer at that time they will they will have questions someone might call us oh I have this really fancy um mailbox do you need the mailbox in do and then we'll go through the details um I might have a site visit where I'll bring a technician and the contractor um and then we'll answer questions that they may have but it's a very seamless process the uh we can do a pool of the service without breaking uh so it's not actually a major Dug Dug up of anyone's Services through this process we're not going to we cannot afford board and we don't it's not meant to uh replace any you know artistic I don't know bird bath that costs a million dollars right the there will probably be a cap related that's the only way that we can't afford we will get a cost for the replacement a general replacement from our contractor and it will cap at that so if anyone will have anything like a super expensive mosaic totally making it up I haven't seen a mosaic but then it will be up to that homeowner to replace the Mosaic so we can do the work and bring it up now General law we're pretty good at seating and and returning it back to its its original condition as long as the homeowner is watering in it um so there very lots of details we've done this you know um many times um so we we should be in pretty good shape working with with most questions that folks will have I have a lot of questions please I waited and I wrote them all down so you already answered two of them so thank you um if Milton were to not fully comply what kind of penalty does the now I know if a homeowner refuses that's different that's not our failing to um comply but if Milton just doesn't comply what happens I tried to read the rule but you know yeah I didn't get it's very many thousands of pages long so I didn't get that detailed into that part of it but so we will be now requiring even after the October 2027 All the known leads we will be required to provide filters it'll be part of the water department service so you're going to start picturing us with uh certified lead reducing filters in our yard providing those to the homeowners not only when they have lead but for 6 months after we've replace that lead service um our lead action levels um exceedences um will be reduced after October 7 uh 2027 from um parts per trillion billion um I'm sorry I don't have the the unit it's a huge difference okay and I should know so I apologize to the from 15 to 10 um and there is very rigorous testing once you start exceeding those um everybody gets notified the media gets notified all residents get notified and um um it is extremely it's extreme amount of work I'm not there yet as to see how that would look but currently there are it's similar to what you know the boil water mhm um sure it's something similar to that yeah I saw that notification so I'm just curious if then know I'm an attorney so I think about these things if then the people of Milton there are some liability for Milton for the town's people if Milton were not to comply I'm just curious about that that's um but I think it would be more related to the work that the water department will have to do and then and then the cost of sending out all those notices not only the notices but we might enter a boiled water okay um once we started advisory because once to start exceeding those um right and then um can you talk about what the town is doing about public buildings is there any um like this is homeowners but what about the public owned buildings like the town owned buildings are we aware of if they have any lead pipes has that been fixed um no none of the 42 Leed and your galvanizes are in public buildings um but that was that is much easier where we can just go in go in and see okay um and then we were talking about tenants so you said that the tenants get notification as well as the homeowners correct so if a homeowner doesn't want you digging around in their yard because they don't live there but the tenant it's up to the homeowner so then the tenant wouldn't have the protections of they have the knowledge you coming in okay they they have the knowledge that they live in a house with lead which is much more than they had before okay EPA is trying to be a bit more Equitable a little bit Yeah more open okay because we do understand that folks that rent sometimes are not made aware of MH flood you know we talk a lot of noways environmental justice M as you know and then um so I think you already said this but I just want to make sure so with respect to who's paying for this all so individual homeowners if they want to take care of it right away like I had to replace the G galvanized pipe just exploded one day and so I had to replace it in my house not the town-owned portion um so if people want to replace their they're more than welcome to at their own cost if they want to not do that because you know they don't want to expend that cost at some point the town may say to them okay we've determined that you have a lead pipe and then the town will reimburse it up to a certain point no um so right now we're able to take care of the 42 that are LED right now but um 156 galvaniz as you see this number is not going to take care of all the 156 galvanized um we are predicting to be able to to just change the the lead services not the galvanized at this point okay the galvanized will enter the the 10-year replacement queue so folks that have galvanized um pipe and Lead if they don't choose to take care of it on their own they're just going to have to wait and I don't think that because of the way that the funding mechanism is within the town we will never be able to tell someone you are in the list for next year you're in the list you know because who knows if we're going to have the funding next year I don't know what if the EPA the mwa is going to come up with a with a with a program that gives us a 25% Grant by the way the requirement to do the 25% Grant is that we are taking care of the private right now um I don't know if the the federal um government will provide with any additional help so it's how long is anyone willing to wait again MH because unfortunately we don't have the funds right now to just take care of everything and we as we find if we just unable to I have like a couple more but somebody else can be called on doesn't have to no no please continue I have very few um okay so then after the lead ones that we know about are replaced and then we're working to kind of try to replace some of the other ones as we can um what else does this rule require besides the replacement of these pipes cuz I was looking through it and it seems to be a lot of things outside of what we're talking about so are there like next steps so I mentioned um I mentioned the um the no materials turning everything into you know achieving 100% so I I think I bulleted that here on the rule summary locating those pipes achieving 100% of locations achieving 100% of lead pipe Replacements of both lead and Galvanize um the more rigorous testing um lowering the thresholds for communities to take action on their lead um and requiring those filters those I think are the highlights I'm not quite sure okay um what others off the top of my head but I'm sure that there are like things changing in addition to that but those are when we have webinars and these are the major highlights that are coming out okay and then um with the new incoming Administration with the new president are we anticipating anything different I mean I know the EPA is a separate thing and it's a very long notice and Ru making process we don't know are we anticipating any changes could there be I don't know I don't know I this is a rule I am I'm sorry I'm not that great I don't know if the rule could be revoked process I think I'm sorry yeah I don't okay you know what I mean I gu they can just yeah lose no more I don't know um and then I have one more just for the public can you talk about why let is harmful just like briefly in our water so people can understand the importance of doing all this um that's it okay so lead is persistent and it can bi accumulate on the body so a small amount over several years can cause both physical and behavioral effects of lead um starting from the womb to adulthood um it in children's um low levels of exposures have been linked to damage to the central and peripheral nervous systems learning disabilities shorter stature impaired hearings and imp performation and functions of blood cells um in addition to in the water lead can come through um the galvanized pipe basically was a lead pipe that was had a galvanized lining and that has we've seen since it's really really old that Galvanize comes off and then you've got that exposure to lead another thing where you see lead is um the pipes entering their homes we have no bearing on pipes inside people's homes uh so having that lead service line replaced but not replacing your own um Plumbing is not going to do you it will do good because again it bio accumulates but you're still getting at a level of of of level of lead uh faucets the other thing that people forget to do is um when they change they should not forget to do they change the lead pipe like you have your galvanized you should change that little screen on your faucet because if you did have le V back there that tiny amount could be coming so I'm not sure if you were made aware to do that that but I would have changed my little do you know what I'm the little kind of like a screen screen thing yeah in every faucet potentially the ones that you drink off the kitchen um so we do have a website I um put that in the documents here if if if we can get a link to the folks here in that are listening in it's in the town of milton. org go to Public Works uh department on the public works there would be a uh on the top hand corner a learn more and there's a whole thing about lead you can get links to the mwa mwa has several links we're still asking folks that are under so this 1,581 folks that are within the private they can do their own uh their own testing where you can um scan a QR code send a picture to our department we can help you uh figure out whether or not that private site is LED or not LED um if you're not comfortable I know that some folks are not comfortable you know going down to their basement and figuring that out okay we'll send a technician for free so um do get in contact get on our website and check it over and over and over again because your material might be changing in terms of you might have been on the unknown bucket and now you're are known however with that being said if you become known LED you will receive a notification so no news from us is good news but we do have to notify everyone every year um so if we still did not change you from an unknown you're going to not be notified again I think I got derailed from your question and if people do replace it they should notify you we will know because uh engineering department you cannot change nobody can touch uh uh a service without getting a permit yes uh through a drain layer contractor a contract drain layer that's also a reason why you want to if you do have lead try to get ahead of that if not again if if the the reasons we've noted here in terms of exposure in in health uh some folks I have believe it or not some folks have said oh I don't have any children here I'm fine well you still would maybe want to do it uh your your house prices go up if you're selling it I believe that they're not sure if if anyone is in the real estate but if you have a new service that's great stuff to have and you can tell that you don't you you're unknown Le um and in addition to that I do think that costs are going to become more and more expensive as we are now starting to compete with everyone else but the website is great you can look for your address you can look for any family friends or or loved ones that Liv in town and if you're concerned about them or if you need to help them is that on the interactive map that is where yes if you you can find your at I can help you yeah it seems like no it's not up but it's you can click on your house so oh and then there's an address to yeah on the right hand corner on the side I can help you after this if You' like okay can you can you talk about the cost for the test pits the the 500 Pits versus the 78 services that you're anticipating replacing yes I don't have that number in front of me right now but um it the anticipation of the on Le service replacement is 4,500 and uh the number and the test bits will vary but we're looking from anywhere from 500 500 to 1,000 per test per test bits and those will all also potentially be on private property because we would have to do it right at the line so we can look at both sides and then you will see that I have added 78 not 42 + 3 for service replacement 42 plus 3 is 45 um the 78 is because I added additional in case through the 500 I found more lead and we were right there so we just get it out okay thank you I do have copper thank you interactive maap because I it's very easy yeah yes I do have copper that's true we would have known that you have copper because you did the work recently yeah exactly um um sorry you found the alleges you said with like one to 2,000 addresses that'll say what they if I found ledger so okay this is really interesting back in the as early as 1999 I believe plus or minus years the town of Milton and it's news to me maybe some of the residents that have been here for longer will know this all of the water services were replaced in-house there was no contractor there was no third- party contractor that ever came in dealt with this DPW did DPW did everything all of the service all of The Replacements you had a pipe burst you called DPW DPW came in and you got a bill so those ledgers are actually bills that sent were sent out to Residents and we also they they just logged everything and as a part of that they had the material that they used wow and even though we know for a fact that after 1965 they didn't use any I'm I'm sorry that I think that the 1962 they didn't use it we're using a 1965 line just to be 100% sure and but we know that as early as 1950s they were mostly using copper and that is where we're getting the Thousand from how soon will that you're updating that now in the system right the interactive map it gets updated weekly through our our are are the folks at CDM Smith they have a a team of folks that are going through that they're doing a qaqc equality accuracy and check uh once everything is finalized it it gets updated um so even from this December 16 I think we've updated already once the interactive app map that's great yeah you have do you have an idea when it's going to be completed the inventory yeah like going through all the ledges the old ones oh yeah the uh within a month okay great I have one more question of course so we we missed out on a program with 100% where we could have got 100% reimbursement is that right that 100% would have only uh they didn't they do that program is the D program which was part of achieving the inventory locating Legacy pipes and that did not fund Replacements so we never missed out on the replacement replacement was always something we had to do through the mwa but it it did fund the the the work that CDM Smith has done over the last two years with us and it it it does fund a um predictive model which again right now we just won't do at this point were we like just behind on doing it like we didn't think we weren't expecting to need a predictive model and the funding that we requested thus far was the funding that we felt like DP was going to give us the go-ahead this was a or the lack of better word it was a Hail Mary we thought that they had if they had any extra work from other communities that didn't take advantage of it we were like hey here we are we ready to take it and we were going to get another 200 it's just not there anymore okay we were hoping it was everyone took advantage of the free money right it's really our money anyways so I one question that has not been asked and something that the engineering department will have to deal with is there are some services that are very very long here in town 500 ft that's sometimes 10 times more than an average service those Services my alone one service could cost service 20 $25,000 right now they're not on this list but if we are to uncover something like this I think that we might have a something in the in the in the contract agreement with that homeowner that we would only pay for up to what we're paying everyone else and would those be those private residences that are maybe an acre off of the public way okay so the question is I I want to bring that up as the warant committee thank you um but in order to take advantage and take care of the most amount of residents within this timeline this really proactive approach is not perhaps 20 grand in one service but take care of four Services yeah nice maybe you already answered this and I'm sorry so for the I'm looking at some friends of mine's houses I will not call them out so some of them might can see that it's the public part is unknown and then maybe the private is like copper or something so for the parts that the town owns that are unknown that's kind of what the test bits are for so the town's going to figure that and then hopefully if it finds lead those are the ones it'll replace those we will replace those uh the idea is let's replace lead if when we're tested they remobilized let's just get it out at that point the the the replacement of the lead regardless of what side we are not we're stopping to see which one is private which one is public lead let's get it out of the the ground and then if you have the hasus so you said before that like if people have unknown and you send out a technician you know you might want to check again because maybe it wouldn't show up but it might show up later May write about that maybe no the technician would be for the so if you're looking at the table you have the public side and the private side the private side we still have sometimes not a big majority of the time the luxury of finding out what service material it is when we look at the pipe coming out of the the house MH so if we continue to send technicians out right this 1,581 should be greatly reduced okay it's just a question of entering the houses now what is unable if let's pretend that The Ledger never existed and this is my final number count again it won't be um it should be greatly reduced but but let's pretend that this is my fixed number now the 3,163 from the public side those there's no way of poking into they are from the curb the shut off on the on the on the property line to the main there is no little camera I can send out there there's nothing I can do other than test bitting okay so for the public service lines the test pit should be enough to determine yes or no this is letter both the public and the private the test bits and we will try to do the test bits for the homes that have both sides unknown so then you test bit it right at the connection and then you can look both sides and you're good to go perfect okay so for public we're talking about going from the water m to the sidewalk essentially M what about all the water Ms in town are we sure those are all good those are all good there are no lead great thank you so um M fernanz want to just the takeaways you know we have a very diverse housing stock in Milton homes built in the 1600s all the way up to you know today being built right now that doesn't that doesn't is that's not a really a true predictor of the service it is we have um we have a sign affidavit from we were able to interview a a um DPW worker that noted that there was no lead in the DPW Yard being made available for for replacement as of 1965 so anyone's homes were built uh I'm sorry if anyone's Services were either replaced or built after 1965 we've knocked them down from the list and that is an acceptable method uh by the EPA an interview with yeah with an individual U it would it be is it fair like the use of bled and galvanized uh steale I mean I don't know if you said this did that go out of practice in the 50s in the 60s the 60s that's when yeah and in the 70s there was a state rule that said no more lead SE late 70s so for example that was great because Indian Cliffs is built in the 70s 75 I believe those are all good no lead there okay um same for you know that was the major one cuz that once I had that that cut out year MH I was able to get a lot of the unknowns because we didn't have records of Indian Cliffs yeah yeah big relief we also went through like records and if then the details it had a detail that show how the contractor was to put in a service and he wrote copper M that yeah little things like that it was just a lot of coming through sure yeah is rot iron cement lined bad no that's iron you no that's good like looking at different things yes I have been looking at everybody that is good Ron has a question yeah Ron so so just for my clarification that includes the service that's outside as well as any development that would have happened inside the home is that correct the beginning cutout yeah oh sorry so so that that date threshold whatever date that was in the 60s that that that includes the service lines that are outside the property as well as the the piping inside the property is that correct we cannot speak to the plumbing inside the house because again we can only speak to what was installed and and what I was mentioned is as of as early as the 1990s uh any install outside of your house that was done by our own folks our DPW department and that is what we can testify and and assert you of I we are unable to assert because the plumbing because those were done by everyone hired their own plumbing and I cannot tell you if the person that built that house in the 70s for some reason got a hold of a very cheap stack of lead pipe and put lead pipe in their Plumbing it's it was beyond their control I understood yeah but I and again the massachus unless the that would be a um I could if if you have a question about that you could talk to someone from our building department and see if there was any regulations through the state in regards to the inside Plumbing my understanding that uh regulations through the state for the service materials were made in the late I can get you a better date but it was somewhere in the late 70s if not early 80s okay understood so so this this date is really only for the service line any any Plumbing inside people would have to uh check when their Plumbing was updated and confirm it themselves with the and I'm not I'm not a plumber but I would think that the plumbing is not as big of a deal because you can visually check check some spots uh this is a bigger deal because this is buried in your under theground are yeah yep okay understood than you could Pro probably get a plumber out there and and they can do Visual and they can let you know if you have any solder did I pronounce that right solder leads in the solder anybody have any other questions for Miss Fernandez concerning the lead pipe work that the town is looking to conduct further Miss fance is there anything else that you'd like to add uh for the committee no thank you for all the your support the only reason why I'm here today is because you supported our request um couple of years ago it it it was a long time coming um and and that's one of the reasons not why that that inventory it seems easy right but that took a couple of years and a lot of leg work and um so and you guys were a part of this so thank you thank you thank you well miss F seeing no questions we appreciate your time and the work you're doing and the work he going to do in the future for us in our town thank you very much thank you all thank you okay well um presentation completed uh we can engage in a discussion members present would like to to discuss um the appropriation do anybody have any comments or questions well I'll make a comment comments or my thought is I mean it's um it's a health issue especially for children so I don't see you know they want they force they should force us to do it so I think we should do it I don't see how we get around it anyways but serious health with if you look online with lead so of course um I mean we all we all know the stories of Flynn Michigan right I mean we know we we've heard stories and to Brian's Point um you know this is a necessary thing a lot of money but money that should be spent I in from my shoes Jay yeah yeah I'd say this was a good discussion we got a lot you know I think we all learned a lot and I think we asked a lot of questions that town meeting might want to ask so we can preempt some of those um but at the end of the day we're being asked we V you know do we what do we vote on this article and I think that's a no that was a no-brainer before she started speaking and it's the same no-brainer after she stopped speaking which is that I support it well I think that it's probably a money saving overtime situation one we're required to do it so there's not a lot of wiggle room two um right like we talked about it as a health concern but three if people are having if people are having the health effects that could happen from lead and it builds up over time that could be attack sort of on our you know schools our health system so I think it's you know our community so I think it's probably a cost saving measure over time and it seems like they've really limited to me the amount of they're being conservative about the amount of money that they're going to spend it's not like hello let's replace all of them right at once let's go test every single thing it seems like a very targeted approach which I appreciated her explaining because before I don't know that I really had a firm understanding about you know we're going to do these test pits but this is how we're going to get it down even more so the fact that they were able to rule out a lot of them already and she seems like she's um Miss Fernandez really seems like she's done a lot of due diligence in the DPW and to thank them for that um in trying to knock it down even more so that we're not doing test pits for information that we could have found from a historical record or for someone who worked here or you know something else that we have so it seems like they've really researched triy to limit it and are now being very careful and I appreciate that because you know we have a lot of people asking for money and we need to make sure that we abortion it appropriately but it seems to me that the DPW is very carefully making sure that their ask is limited to what it needs to be so I appreciated that anyway I think I think it is a a conservative approach and uh frankly when I first learned about this I was shocked that the numbers were so low frankly across the town you know in terms of how we keep our infrastructure so I I was very happy and then of course the way they really like you said conservatively you know approach the project and they've used the money in a in a really good way intelligently and well taking it very seriously the health issues too so I appreciate that as well yeah so I don't know if anybody has any other um comments um it's very clear article I think think for us well I just did the math you know she said 78 the 42 plus the three is 45 lead Replacements plus anything that she finds when she does 500 test pits so she increased it to 78 4500 per and then 500 pits at 500 to a th000 so I use a th000 I'm 500,000 I'm getting a total of 850 51 mhm mhm so oh okay why are we appropriating a million 7 it doubled the amount yeah so times it by two yeah thank you so I don't know if it's so that would just be a question what number are you saying so it's the 42 so I did 7 so 78 she had said mhm at 4500 and then 500 4 $4,500 each I'm not sure what you're say the pipe so to replace um what is the 78 I'm very okay the lead line 42 mhm we know we have to replace plus three right 45 so if you recall she said 45 although it's 45 I'm assuming Maybe it's both maybe it is both sides Tom I'm sorry yeah um yeah but we it's both sides yeah I yeah that's I'm sure that's what it is I because I wasn't because even though they do a test pit it it may only be on one side that's and the 42 is only on the private side right not the other side so it still seems then a little bit High okay but so the 45 I was following you okay and 45 that the cost per was 4500 and she increased it in case when she drilled the 500 pits she found some that had lead so 45 to 78 is just another whatever that me 33 33 additional she's anticipating she'll find and we'll repair okay MH and then the 500 test pits at a thousand a piece okay got me to 851 so but is it both sides but well but she's saying that I thought I heard her say I guess I'd look at it a different way if she's thinking 500 test Pits might find US 33 lead ones well then 4,000 unknowns across town if there were 33 for every 500 I multiply that by eight I'll say there are you know our best guess might be there are 264 plus 45 around town and that gets me to 1.2 million M so yeah I was thinking the 33 if she's guessing 500 test bits will turn up 33 bad ones right then I'd also guess 4,000 unknown ones will give me 264 bad ones but we're not attacking those yet well I don't know about yet I mean well that's we have the 10 years if they uncover lead then they will yeah right that's true but so to me I just took that as that's her best guess of yeah I'm just I was just yeah no sure we yeah back of the envelope I mean I I would think if the detection is lower than her estimates I'm sure they won't just waste the money right it won't get spent unless they detect lead some of these these lines correct so if they have money left over I would assume it rolls over next year and the town can decide what to do with it yes I would agree I'm was just if trying to recog recile in my mind how we got to the 17 and if there was any room to take it down a little because 17's a big number and we have a lot of other very large numbers to come yeah was kind of where I was going and I'm guessing we'll borrow this as it goes like if we're unsure how many we have to replace we won't borrow enough to replace 264 we'll borrow enough to replace the ones we know about and as we learn more we'll borrow more I'm [Music] assuming mean it's a zero interest loan so yeah have St I don't know Steve speaking of where is this coming out of what account how is this being being where is this is this out of Reserve are we fing the the town like the the taxpayers like just say any was that answered I'm sorry if I missed that it's borrowing yeah through the MW when we say borrowing does that mean it's got to be paid back I'm afraid so yeah 75% of it how how is that paid back just like by so we must be billing tax pay like the homeowners right okay it'll be part of it'll I'm sorry I think it'll be just part of The Debt Service okay I just yeah to your point Lor I just I have no problem doing it I just want to I think it when we come through with these numbers we need to uh have somebody put together like these kind of important factors of like you know what's going to be on homeowners because that most people would not know that it's coming to them yeah correct sorry I just wanted to clarify yeah I do know if I can M I do know when Nick is projecting the budget for next year and the year the year after I know for a fact he's look well he's told me he's looking at for example things that town meeting has said we can borrow that we haven't yet because we haven't done them and so he's lumping that all in he's saying you know town meeting gave us permission a year or two three years ago to borrow this money we haven't done it yet let's assume we're going to borrow this money tomorrow and that's part of The Debt Service number that he's including in his budget for next year and the year after and the year after so I guess one question is you know is this borrowing if it's we end up borrowing 1.2 million let's say after we get the you know that's 75% of the total and then divide that by 10 with no interest 120,000 per year um I'm guessing that's going to be in Nick's budget for next year and the year after uh or or maybe his best guess of okay maybe we'll be borrowing this in two years and it'll appear in the budget at that point you make a good point that you know can't lose side of this uh we can have uh Our Town Administrator come in next week if uh the members would like and he can explain that that for us and maybe if we could ask Miss Fernandez to just explain the math on that as well because she's done some kind of calculations and we're sort of guessing what they are and I appreciate you're doing the math Lori and to Alisa point I mean right we have to kind of justify two town meeting M where all the money is so it's clear to me that she's done math rough yeah right some kind of math so if she can just kind of explain it out the way that she did and you wrote down Lori but because it doesn't add up to the 1.7 could we get an explanation of where the 1.7 came from have Steve Steve oh thank you thank you for recognizing me um sorry I was late I had a meeting um I've got I I do think it's obviously a good thing that we're going to replace those lead pipes and it was I found um I felt her information very helpful I do have some questions though around I heard earlier that the money just you know maybe an assumption that the money may just flow back into to be use later for me I feel better if we have a better understanding of if we borrow 1.5 million for example let's say we use 900 because we have a best case scenario the balance of that money where does that go does that get put into free use across the DPW over there I think that would be clear I'd like to understand that I think that's important um I think another thing that comes to mind now for me is that in all meetings we're having now we're talking about a lot of things that are increasing debt but not a lot of income creators for the town so I'd like to see a summary of all the additions to our debt service that are coming in and then take a look at an impact to taxpayers Across the town I think that would be helpful um as we examine this and summarize and give our feedback uh given everything that's coming down in our way thank you thank you Steve Steve can I jop off that point too to Steve's Point absolutely Al um thanks Steve no I I um I do think that this I said before this really important but to Steve's point I do agree 100% because even with Monday's feasibility was I didn't even I didn't understand where that amount was coming from and we also aren going to need that from May 1st 270 days so we really need like an understanding of these debts and time frames like so that if we're in a situation because you know there is this um discussion of an override where we should be prioritizing kind of the debts and the things that are important versus like maybe prolonging something of that sorts like the feasibility to go on for the like the fall or January because of the things of the debts like listed and like so the timeline would be great too so like if it's not necessary like the feasibility was 270 days from May why take that 1.5 debt right now in February when we can and we have other debts like the fourth floor on Cunningham you know these these all these things should be listed out for us so that we can really fully understand and you know kind of the cost and Analysis so that we can make educated recommendations based on timelines and debts and prioritizing I think that would be really important thank you thank you Allison any follow-ups to that yeah just to Echo what my two colleagues just said i' I've long thought the warrant committee or maybe just me maybe I'm the one who's in the dark should be more educated about our town debt and how we service it um I've had some conversations with the treasurer like for example you know one example is uh fire stations you know we spent money on fire the fire station that's next door to us and if I recall correctly but it may be good to have the town treasur coming here you know we're building it so we borrow short-term borrowing for one year and then short-term borrowing for the next year we do short-term borrowing for a couple years and then we go out to Wall Street to the bond market to get the real 30-year Bond for the for the fire station and also as I said there there are some borrowings that have been approved by town meeting that we haven't borrowed yet because we haven't spent the money yet we haven't done the project yet so it's tempting for me to say well if we approve like the the the study my you know my colleague just said well why do we approve it now if we're not going to need it for another six months I think if we approve it now it we won't borrow the money till we start spending it but it would be really good to have the treasurer come in here and talk to either that specific item or or sort of in general how our debts work I think that's a good idea okay when we reference our overall Debt Service um towns responsibilities are we speaking to this article specifically or are we speaking to just generally I thought generally just generally and is this something that you want to hear as to this or is this collectively as we move forward if it's specific to anything I mean Allison just brought up the 1.5 million for the schools and I was sort of confused about that like when will it be will that be part of the debt exclusion if that eventually comes through so um if it's to any specific article it might be that one okay I'd agree with that I I think getting a l sight on how that's going to be used um would be very helpful um and then understanding because once that money's released we there's no oversight on it it goes into that budget for use right so I think that would be very helpful yeah I'd like to see a list of all the budget I you know all the uh debt for the town and then we should be adding as we go so we can kind of see we should have like a rolling yes total because it seems like there are a lot of things that are going to be popping in there I mean this one sounds like it's preferential because it's a interest free loan for 10 years or something but and you get 25% back so and we'll have 10 years to do it but I mean we still you know it's for 1. 275 but still it's money it's a lot of money correct okay well I will reach out to Mr Milano and others um we are in a pinch in terms of this meeting um or this uh special town meeting but I will do my best uh to get the people in um getting Town Council coming on the 22nd and we'll see who we can fit in next week um just to address a couple of these issues uh regarding the debt service that work yes jay sound good okay great any other comments or just questions just about this appropriation in general overall we're just going to go back to her and ask her for the math right yeah that's what I'll do yeah um Can articulate that in an email um okay okay are we done with our lead pipe discussion anything else okay um so we there was uh just moving on to the next item um there was some belief that may we maybe be able to discuss uh the amendment to 10 chapter 105 of our bylaws and that's um the article concerning um not the liquor licenses that have been requested that Mr Milano presented on but uh this is the change to our bylaw regarding the consumption uh of alcoholic beverages on Town property so we were unable to get Town Council here just because of a scheduling issue um but I did obviously leave it on the uh agenda for today and I think in anticipation of Town Council coming to us on the 22nd what I just asked the board here or the committee here is to you could formulate your questions um specifically for Mr Melo and share them with me bya email and I would send them along to Mr melow Our Town Council and I just want to say the rationale behind that uh in my experience past couple years we've had him and some others in um and you know we're asking questions and sometimes they're not they either don't have the information before them or they haven't have an ample opportunity to kind of review uh whatever they have to to answer the question in a um correctly um so I I'm thinking that in in speaking to um Town Administrator maybe any questions especially if they're technical in nature um if you could forward the along to me if you think of them and I can then in turn get them along to Mr melow just so um he can have an materials or numbers or policies or anything that and he can also do a little maybe research uh before if he doesn't know the answer off the top of head so I just ask all the members of the committee if you could do that I think uh we just get a little more bang for our buck out of Mr melo's time if you know what I mean um and we're able to I'd like to really we had a great discussion the other night about it I'd like to kind of continue that discussion with him in the room um and then maybe um we would be in a position to vote on that maybe next week um does that work for everybody okay um yes does anybody have does anybody want to discuss has anybody given any thought to the consumption of alcohol in town property since our last discussion um yeah Brian I I mean I again this is just open-ended I didn't know yeah I uh I don't have a problem with it it seems like as long as the selectman approve it I assume to prove it if it's um you know done by a caterer or something that it's you know the proper bartender that somebody who's trained to be a bartender I would think it' be okay I don't know that need needs to be put in there with something but I don't really have a problem with it feeling yeah um I I heard some concerns in the last meeting and I thought about them and they concerned me also but I keep com back to the proposal is to move from forbidding it to not forbidding it proposal is not freefor all like I may have opened a can of worms by saying oh PTO might have a wine and cheese night um maybe I shouldn't have said that but if such a thing were to happen first of all the PTO would have to decide it's a good idea second of all they would have to get permission either from the administration or the school committee I don't remember how the regulations written they'd also have to get permission from the board so and maybe all those things would happen because maybe that's a perfectly fine thing to do but it doesn't mean okay we town meeting approves this and then suddenly it yeah I keep coming back to we're moving for forbidden to not forbidden MH and then that that that's still there still guardrails I have my same concerns as I had last week about people consuming alcohol at remind me Lori the name of the island oasis the real name the deck the deck it East Milton Square Manning Park thank you it is Manning Park and I should know that because I was there for the whole dedication of it anyway in Manning Park and I am concerned about the impacts on the neighbors that live around there who already face so much difficulty with traffic and all kinds of other things and I think that yes I do you know put a lot of faith in our select board and but it's a lot of coordination with a lot of different pieces of town so it's coordination with our Police Department to make sure that they're there and able to monitor the situation and ensure Public Safety but then again there could be a crisis happening someplace else so to make sure that there is the correct protocols in place as you said to make sure that there are licensed bartenders or the appropriate people making sure that people aren't being over served that children aren't being served that people aren't drinking and driving so I don't necessarily have as much of a problem with it in buildings but when we're Outdoors when we're getting you know in crowded areas where there are children present in places that people live in densely packed areas I am concerned about the impact in particular and maybe it's because I live there I don't know but the impact in particular on the area surrounding the deck and those were some of the examples that were cited of when we would do it and so I don't really see a great benefit to it I don't drink that much so maybe that's part of it but I don't see a great benefit to it but I see a lot of risk so I will be interested to see what attorney Melo says about how the town is limiting that risk and then I think I would feel you know at least have some different thoughts and also it's partly because I'm a lawyer and all I can think about is like disaster and risk but I when I do the risk benefit calculation I don't know that I see a huge benefit but I do see some potential liabilities and some problems with it so well said sometimes Alison well um I see Liz's points but what's the difference between that and like people walking around porch Fest and drinking with kids around and I mean and that's been an event that's been going on for years and has it been a problem for people with kids and open kid you know I mean so you know I think when you bring some an event together you have that no matter where it is outside the East milon stroll for Halloween you know we're not talking about every weekend throwing Rangers in the Square so I think like these are going to be events that are you know kind of with adults that are responsible or their town community who have proven in outside events to be these type of people already for numerous events around town um you know so yes might not be legal I mean probably calling that out but it's the obvious of what's going on um so I just you know want to throw these great examples of community events that you know have proven to be um responsible and and well managed and what you know so I I I just wanted to point that out thanks thank you Alison very much I had something to say not back to Alison but that reminded me so Allison you reminded me um so this kind of brings up another point so we had talked about maybe there could be a little bit more information from the select board about what kinds of protocols would be in place that would cause them to agree to it so like is there going to be a bartender the reason why you reminded me of it Allison is because I know a lot of the roads are blocked off with porch vest so you know maybe that's not appropriate for the East Milton stroll and the Halloween and all of that but that is something that happens and so you know the select board thinking about for these events especially if they're repeat events that we see every year what kinds of protocols that they're want going to want to be in place um to right because as you said these are responsible adults we've been able to do it in the past and I think all of that is true and so what would the select board want to see from people asking permission to be able to have this I would just be interested to know that as well um because it does seem like they do have some maybe not the select board itself but there are procedures in place already and you reminded me of that with respect to porch vest so what other kinds of procedures can there be in place so that we can kind of unfortunately those aren't blocked off those those are't blocked off oh really oh no not unless you're on a dead end they're not blocked off actually so just so I just want I don't know if that matters to your point but they're not um um they're not so I think the people that serve the you know when they have a a band They block off in front of their house like areas for people to park but you're walking like Elliot Street major um streets without um any details the last couple events that I've been at meing uh Park they've had I mean they've been selling beer and wine at the library and then people have been buying it but they're not selling it on the property but they are drinking so it's there I'm sorry it's happening what library what um East Milton Library they sell they have a little B they sell it there for the events I didn't know that okay really Jay so I'm I'm hearing Liz okay well that came up last time too but it I I'm hearing Liz's concerns but we we currently the select board issues one day liquor license you know I remember hearing some of at the eustus estate various churches the Milton Arts Center they issue one day liquor licenses right now and this would I think just be an expansion of that current policy you know instead of only doing them for churches or various places it could also be something that's happening on Town property so whatever concerns we have about these in the future I think exist now how does the how do they make sure there's a licensed bartender or whatever I also don't I don't know you know if they offer a one day liquor license to a church I think the church is hosting the church is in charge eus EST State same thing Milt Art Center the same thing I don't know if the town is ever going to be the host like it might be the Chamber of Commerce or somebody hosting it not not the town if that if that alleviates so I sort of don't know what protections we need in the future that we don't have now and I'll also address your question Liz about what's the upside I'm also not a big drinker but the upside is I'll say more people come to events when there's alcohol allowed you know somebody might disagree with me or somebody might say well it's different types of people it's less young families and more I I don't know but I I think it's safe to say that more people attend certain events when there's alcohol so the upside is community building a Halloween stroll so the other for children the other thing I wanted to say is I would be interested to see if there could be something in place where the select board would my understanding of the one-day liquor license and I could be wrong is that those are not decided like in a select board public meeting necessarily like if I want to have a wedding on my prop whatever it is at the usess estate I don't have to go before and have public comment and all of that I'm worried again about people having having an impact in their part of town in their neighborhood that don't want this and in particular in Manning Park which I correctly remember the name of and so if a different group because all of Milton is Milton if people want to come in and say okay we want to have this event at Manning park that's great and I do think that there could be some liability and risk for the town even if they're not the ones hosting it so I want to talk to attorney Melo um next week but are we considering the people that live around there who are the people whose you know children and and whatever could be impacted I'm not saying I'm against it I just want to get some more information about sort of one what is the potential risk and then I don't know you tell me how we could do this if anybody else wants it but what are the parameters that we're considering cuz right now it doesn't seem like the select necessarily has any specific framework laid out for what they would take into consideration for when to Grant it and when not to granted and so if there are parameters I would be interested in seeing them such as a bartender which I just think is wise for liability reasons um and then I would feel a lot more comfortable that you know we could say to people this makes sense because there are Protections in place so I don't really have an issue with it as a whole but I'm curious about when are we going to decide that this is an appropriate thing to do and are we going to consider the thoughts of the people that live near that public property I think that if there were a lot of problems that were happening um and it got out of control I think neighbors would say something to the select board and they probably would just start licenses MH I think that would happen but from somebody who also lives really close to there um I think it's probably nice for people to walk up there if they want to get a beer they can have a beer you know it's not like a no one's getting no one was the events I was at nobody was selling you know it was very like tame but you know I think it's just like it's I would be surprised if many neighbors complain but but if it got out of control you're right they would and I think at that point it would stop which is good that the Selman can say cut it off you know Judy um actually what I was going to point out um Liz already brought up um about speaking to attorney melow if he could outline various um scenarios of liability that might ease everyone's um mind as we enter into voting for this so um we'll be counting on you Liz when Mr mow is here thank you Marty drafting my email to Tom Judy okay anybody else have any just comments about chapter 105 amendments yes Liz now this might have already been mentioned but would this be alcohol for sale and would it be for sale by the sponsor or would they be giving it out Jay's going to answer my question I I'm just looking at the ter drinking sale or possession is prohibited unless authorized by the select board that's I'm summarizing that so they could authorize sale theoretically yes okay I know that would be the purview of the host right like do we well to Steve's Point earlier I was thinking if Milton itself could sell alcohol on Milton property I'm thinking about M money going back to the town because we've been talking about giving away money Milton Town Tavern no thank you um well that's a money maker well it certainly is no thank you you can just come over to my house Lori in the U well I think that's you know yeah that's the idea of the other article right I mean I think let's be honest if you look at the city of Boston what's the money maker for a restaurant not beer or wine full alcohol right that's what people and I and I to Jay's point you know and to Allison too it's you know it does it brings people together you know you know you know and i' had been up there in around too I I didn't see anybody getting out of control there were keg stands going on it wasn't like this this this big thing but I mean I think these are all are all excellent questions and I think these are this is what comes up on the floor of town meeting I find Jay maybe you can maybe you could uh speak to this you don't have to but when the liquor licenses came up historically in the town it created a lot of Buzz and I'm going back to you know Abby Park when that you know you had one liquor license in town forever and it was the Milton Hill House right and I just remember that first foray into restaurants you know it caused a lot of stir I was surprised the list of how many we currently have was it like seven or eight or nine or something I didn't know it was that many I know it is so it it it it is really it is really interesting and I think these are some questions um I think these are all questions that town meeting would ask you're making puns without realizing it created a stir it created a buzz okay so it was shaking up everybody was shaking up that's a good one people were shook up at town meeting I remember uh a long time ago and people were on the Rocks Neighbors on the Rocks stop not um but uh so again I just want to reiterate the great questions I just want to I just want to get the most out of Mr melo's time when he's here and what really want to address everything if it's a big laundry list you can do that um in terms of some of the other questions just about the debt servicing I will speak to Mr Milano about that and see what we can get together for this special town meeting and I think also you know to the general Point Steve Jay everyone um Alison it would it would help us to have this and to site it to town meeting you know like this is what's coming down the pike this is what we've already encumbered this is what we want to this is the vision you know and this is how much it's going to cost so um all things that I will work on um but again just get those questions to me and Stephen it would be great R just one comment yeah sure so I think attorney melow can help us answer some legal questions but if the questions are what are the guard rails that the Sid board foresees I don't think you can answer those right I think that something that the select board would have to think about I I don't to to J point this is just to remove the prohibition they may not have thought about what are all the guard rails they may not even think they they will put Define any guard rails they may just think that they get to decide on a Case by casee basis if there are uh issues but uh but if if we have questions that are not legal in nature I would think those don't go to attorney Melo those would go to Nick or the slin yeah I would agree yeah lawyers answer lawyer questions and that's it and that's it yeah that's and always within it depends and I can see Atty mow saying exactly that like I I don't know what the S boy's doing I can just speak to Milton will get sued or they won't get sued or nothing will happen at all don't worry about it so um I'm kind of thinking maybe you know I'll speak to Mr Milana maybe the select board run maybe maybe a member of the S board might be the most appropriate person to speak to this um I think that in kind of my spitballing it it was kind of one of those come in see what you got and we'll make a decision but um it would be helpful to know in the town to know what the parameters the select board uh thinks about when offering a license so lots of emails to be sent um are there any other uh comments or asks or questions about chapter 105 next week I'll probably Target this for Wednesday Mr Melo and another speaker okay I don't see any hands raised so I'll just ask about scheduling are are we gonna yeah that's what we're talking about right now okay are we gonna have uh votes potentially at every meeting next my was my attention to um on each agenda on each night I'm looking for Tuesday Wednesday Thursday uh each night I was placing uh this draft um warrant in its entirety with warrant committee discussion and potential voting on all everything every night everything every night Jay I want to give us the freedom uh the time you know time elements Wednesday will be a little different probably have a couple of people in here speaking um so that you know we might not get as much done just because there might be a lot of questions and back and forth but my goal is to try to get everything that's before us right now completed by next week so it's another ask of you members of the committee like just uh take the opportunity when you have some free time just to Bear down on these and um you know speak amongst people um call me speak uh amongst other members of the committee if you have questions or you need materials or information um but I just say I just want you to be ready that um I I'll be looking to put these to the vote just so we can coordinate comments get them to the town uh in a timely fashion and then um another article from the select board uh regarding some lighting um that we started a couple years ago briefly and then obviously the Adu and what the planning board is looking to potentially present to us that would be done um in the month of February and I mentioned it briefly in the last meeting the comment would most likely not get in by print so um that's all I have about future scheduling anybody have any questions about next week Judy uh no you answered my question about the um articles from the planning board coming in you know on a tight time schedule but um you you did answer that we we can fit that in before the print for a vote but the comment itself will be on some kind of a green sheet me yeah and I Judy if I if I yellow sheet would it whatever she would do if I if I knew if I knew where that was at I I would tell you but um I I don't uh they're meeting in about another week next week yeah so um if you want to tune in into the planning board I'm sure it will be an interesting meeting and you probably get a lot of information um just concerning what they're doing and expectations but um you know this is not typical you know it's typical in the sense where sometimes we get things at the last minute and we get a scramble um obviously getting things far after the it goes to print is unusual so I just want the newer members of the committee in my experience it hasn't happened um at all or very frequently so and then do you have thoughts about the following week I know it has to go up did you find out when the warrant is actually going to print so it gives us it gives us over a week for those who are drafting comments to draft them and get them back okay so it's not going out on the 28th it's just that week yeah there's a there's some like wiggle room he's got to wig yeah um sometimes it changes but um I think it's good for us to set a tight deadline okay um you know in terms of comments um I'm G to I can I'm going to talk to you about that next week and and um what my expectations uh for the comments but I would say uh especially new members uh take five or 10 minutes go to the town website look at some of the old warrants look at the comments and just see how they're drafted you know you can see somewhat different styles SE so yeah but you know I'm not going to get into a lot of it now but just just take a look at some of the old comments and um you know the past few years and just going to give you an idea of the structure of them and you know how we um you know how they they're traditionally drafted so that's that's really the only big thing I would like to to get some of the younger some of the newer younger the newer members involved in that process um we've had a lot of turnover the on the Warren committee so we've lost a lot of experience uh drafting um I just want to make sure everyone gets up to speed and is aware of the process does anybody have any other questions concerns future scheduling next week things to come I'm going to try to zoom in okay thank you very much um and again like I said send those questions legal questions to me um concerning chapter 105 um but I don't have anything further for the committee at this time is there a motion yes I move Liz moves to adjourn I do thank you second and the second in by Lori all those in favor I I okay the motion carries uh thank you and we'll see you next week e