and okay me order I do nothing until we get to the minutes okay all right good evening uh this is a regularly scheduled meeting of Mair Township zoning Board of investment notice that this meeting has been published in the Mair times and Star as well as on the township web page has been given and well this this meeting will not be recorded live it is being recorded in multiple formats and will be available afterwards on the mo Township YouTube channel um first item on the agenda the minutes it's the I I'm pulling the minutes uh is the roll call uh chair Harrison here Vice chair Mulla here Mr Coffield here Mr church here Miss Harris here Mr Moore Mr Simon here Mr Vieira here M Grant um that's it I also like to introduce our new assistant planer Z cos and Jonathan drill is here tonight first I'd like to welcome Don to the board we seeing a lot of you and glad to have you on board first we have the minutes of the June 5th meeting I just have one change on page four line 36 it could be reasonable probability not reasonable probably 46 36 does anyone else have any changes to the minutes not someone want the minutes that I'll move the minutes as presented second all favor say I I any opposed any extensions first application on the agenda and please excuse me if I mispronounce your name is that of Christina Sedar Kabachi for property at 189 far Street this is an application for variances to the Second Story Edition at the rear 162 family dwelling the property is located in the R22 Zone district and it's designated tax set backs of less than the minimum permitted from both side property lines and from Ma pered B notice in order need to swear you in and raise your right hand do you swear the testimony you're in given this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and can you identify yourself for the record please iceing speak up so that we get to yeah people are gonna have to speak loud tonight I see microphones there but um I don't know if those are the ones I see something on the table so just speak loud all supposed to be working but yes people should speak loudly with last name it's Sadat actually s ah okay and then Hy K ABC hii top she okay proceed I was what you want to do while you're doing it okay so um what we're doing is a two second second floor addition into our home um currently our kids share a bedroom and now they're getting a little bit older we want to give them their own room so what the addition is is just add that extra space so that everyone can have their own bedroom are there questions from members of the board can you talk a little bit about your property and the exting house where the addition is going um so it's actually a two family home and we live on both floors um we used to rent out the top floor but then when we had kids we just took over the whole house and now we live on both floors um we're keeping it as a two family home um upstairs right now now is just one bedroom what we're adding is a second bedroom and a small office and so the second floor is going to match where the first floor ends So currently the second floor ends about 2/3 of the way and then the so we're just kind of having both floors to meet up so they're the same um the property itself uh has a front porch and has a backyard uh there's no driveway there's no um the houses are very close together is only about 2 ft with each home and then besides the addition are you planning to do anything else no just this go around see any just so the um first of all the with the siid of the addition how does that compare to houses to the left the right this be consider in terms of um some the houses are all kind of all different sizes some of them go as far as our house will because it currently is that length we're not adding any additional length we're just having the first and second FL math so we're not actually changing the length of our property um yeah the homes kind of come and go they're all different sizes okay so so you're not actually extending no the foundation is the same but just the second floor is going out so right now um there's a kitchen on the first floor and then this bedroom and small office are just going to be on top of that kitchen so with the you said that you're really maintaining the design basically a two family the second Flor is incorporating it as part of your living space so tell us about how you're going to be utilizing the kitchen the second floor the kitchen will remain a kitchen um it's a very large kitchen for an apartment that size um in fact our kitchen downstairs is smaller uh so we will be keeping two sides of the kitchen will remain exactly the same and then the the side that's the end of the house is where the bedrooms will be you said that the that part of your intent here is to create bedroom space for your children right we love Monclair and we don't want to move but the housing Market's crazy and we it's just we' rather stay here in town and be able to expand on our home the way it is we love our location and the schools and our kids are very happy here so will your will your children have access to the kitchen facilities sto Etc um yes the same way they have access to the first floor they're older now they're they're right there nine and seven so they're fully capable of being around the kitchen I'll go yeah got um so you're just building this addition off of what's on the first floor yes J just a quick question on the zoning number two the 16 feet 3 in is that get decided like the house the width of the house is 1911 ft like is there formation that puts the 16.3 yeah that's the ex it's the existing preexisting Vari add maintains that wi that VAR follows with the addition okay all right thank you thank Mr Simon no question Mr DEA no question Mr Church yeah I have one question you have two kitchens the two family home yes you going to keep both kitchens yes you're not you have no intention of renting up the top not at this time no but we'll be us it for our family living there why two kitchens we want to keep it a two family home so in the future if we move or if the kids leave go to college or go anywhere we have that option still do you have any questions um no I don't question so just want to understand a little about the current back wall of the second floor based on how you have it open that's basically being removed correct and how how will the roof then be supported if you're gonna say anything you have to come up and be so that's my husband then what he's referring to is that that existing wall will be part of closets um I if you see any interior he's asking about how the roofs going to be supported right so that interior wall is still there they're just going to be cutting basically the door okay so so the doors are there but above the door that remains yes so okay so just cutting two doors cutting two doors and okay really three one for the bath and then one for the office well the bath is already there and that door okay obviously the door's there and you're keeping the same setbacks as the existing house yes any other questions for members of the board there any members of the public who either have questions testimony statements anything at all you want to say about the application this is your opportunity anything further that's it but thank you very much we'll start discussion with Mr Church um I just had that one question I I think that uh the I just had that one question why you have two pit I see the problems in that area the expansion and you have an opportunity here to to put one expansion out the back I really have no problem with that because it doesn't seem to impant on either neighbor nor does it violate the uh planning zoning board zoning plan so I would uh just want to hear rest of my colleagues discuss any objections they may have but I have no substant obje Mr thank you Mr chairman um I'm generally in favor of these application I think the proposed changes are within the existing um the existing setbacks yeah it's the existing footprint so essentially it's not adding um beyond the what what the first floor property the first floor construction it's um General um I'm in favor but I just thought of a question will the addition block any sunlight to your neighbors at all the home above us is larger um I don't know if you have a street view but it's a kind of small apartment building um this gentleman has one one twoo um if anything they block us okay so the neighbor to the south of you I guess that's 187 um and then the house to the right of us is pretty similar in size um theirs is also I think three dwellings so yeah this one is an apartment building um and then this one is has three units but as far as the I don't believe it would block their their sun no or does it end at the same location at the same spot that your house does in the backyard no our house is further there goes theirs is higher and ours is further call it but yours goes further back yes got it okay yeah I'm still there I'm in favor yeah basically in favor I have question on the primary bed on the second floor FL the second floor was on the second um no currently there is a master bedroom on the the second floor and that's our main bedroom we'll all be on the same floor M Harris in favor M Grant you get to comment but not vote since you're the last all for have any comments um no I didn't I'm also in favor of the application I think um varing to based on the existing house having the same set back not anything worse I realistic to the two family I understand what they're wanting to expand for their needs but also keeping theur it to two family status so and I don't think there's a need for any condition so um someone want to make a motion to approve the application motion to approve the application as submitted second all in favor say I I oos and gr thank you very much everyone next application is that of Monique and owner for property with 75 voy Ro this is an application for VAR for proposed attached garage to the home it's in the mide zone District six 3est from offer exception 347 that's 331 the minimum set of requires from the front property line andard set back 3.8 order yes it is thank you who's who I'm Eli I'm Eric Schultz architect okay so two witnesses or one witness I'm going to start with one um I don't know what my role is I was just to be here okay why don't you sit at that table for now let me get your War can you raise your right hand do you swear the testimony you're going to give in this matter over the truth the whole truth talking about the truth I and nice and loud I think you heard from the other people can you state your name for the and spell your name for the record Eric Schultz e r i k s c h u l TZ and you're a registered architect in New Jersey correct yes um is there a poter you need a pointer we can get one um you mean a pointer or do you mean a laser thing if everyone has their materials they have material need the okay why you start and if you end up needing to do that we'll have it by then and all use eyes in the back okay um so property 75 uh Lloyd Road is uh very close to hoberg place it is in a steep slope area um the variance that we're here to request is for the two- par addition um to be Set uh within the 50 yard set um also part of the the work is between the garage and the existing house is an alteration to the existing mudro to add um an entrance can um do it this way the uh we're looking at the photos um and just refer to the image number so every knows what you're talking about um image number two is the south end of the house that is the sort of the living area of the house with the arch Windows living room family room um image one on the North side that is where the existing mud room and the kitchen are so that's sort of the service area that's the area of work you're looking at the image number one on photos thanks the other thing you could do is you could go up to the board and use your hand and point yeah I'm trying to figure out how to forward the slide oh I have to do that here want to go to the next slide that's a laser that's a laser yes you said you wanted a pointer I gave you a pointer okay is this the one you want here uh yes okay so on the upper right is the uh back to the first one we go back to the first one yes please image gota go back he wants to talk about image two there um leg if this is the yes thank you uh so to the right is the uh South End The Living End of the house to the left is the the mud existing mud room that is where the garage would attach to um you can forward to the next slide I don't know it'll get there okay um here you go you can see the bottom right is also the North End showing the kitchen mudroom area and it shows the slope um is pretty aggressive at this end uh to the point where the drop from the front of the house the front wall to the back wall is more than 10 ft that is where the proposed garage will be um go to the next Slide the um so you can see this is a Spanish Colonial stucco house um with a play tile the uh the main um structure in the middle as well as the two extensions on the North and South both have low sloped Gable end roofs next slide please next slide is back to the beginning no it's oh um now we're looking at the existing and proposed mudro and garage and to the right the the yellow rectangle shows the proposed garage footprint we proposing is that the garage be an exact match its depth for the existing extension to the north the M no which is a 23 ft that leaves 22 feet interior depth for a garage which is basically understood as a typical minimum for any size car um so to the left on the upper upper side you can see very small mudroom off the kitchen and then a landing and two stairs down to get to the rear yard at the bottom see the new garage expanded mudro and then we have a new entrance to the mud room with a door canopy which allows access from the kitchen to the front yard to the garage and then to the backyard and easily flowing way um there's a uh there's a red line um across the garage in the mud room which shows that 50 fo yard setback that is the amount of garage space that's within the 50 Foot setback but it is behind uh the average front yard setback considering the neighboring houses um and if you were to go to the next next slide see the existing versus proposed site plans um you can see how the garage is 6 feet in front of the 50 yard setback but 5et behind the average front yard setb just a couple notes on the site plan here that um we are at the 35% maximum allowed um impervious coverage we are proposing to remove four trees but we are rep proposing to replace each four of those trees at the North End between the garage and the neighboring property um I know that the town prefers not to have the garage doors facing the Front Street if if at all possible um in this case we did look at if we could put a single family or I'm sorry a detached garage in the rear yard um but we determined that was Impractical given the slope like as I mentioned more than 10 foot drop just within the 23 ft in the front and the back um as well as it would put us well over the 35% in Fus and wipe out um many more trees than just the four um the other idea of facing the garage doors towards the north neighbor also seem impr practicable because it would mean not only going over 35% coverage but building a 12 foot retaining wall right up against the northern neighbor's property one um go to the next slide so there there are some improvements to having the garage attached I think um where the mud room or where the existing stairway is there's a shows up in the photos better but there's a hard charger irrigation controls that will both get taken from the front elevation and buried inside the garage the trash and recycling which are now visible would be within the garage and mud room um as I mentioned we're replacing four trees one of the trees would be in front of the proposed window for the mudro um terms of changes to the front elevation we have a right now there's a primary entrance and a secondary entrance to the service stair that's a little shed roof that's um uh next to the mud room um that is going to stay um but we are proposing to remove the arched opening that has been was originally an open Airport porch sort of a service porch that has been filled in with a paneling to for the current mud room that will go away and get replaced by a new entrance canopy shown in the HST um which is a hip roof uh tile tile hip roof with a brackets so the proposed uh elevation will have primary entrance with columns secondary entrance with um brackets under the door cany and then the service entrance will remain as the tertiary entrance um so the garage um the new roof of the garage will be an exact match for the one on the second floor above it um and you can see that in the next slide the existing is to the left proposed is to the right and what we're doing is the roof slope scale uh depth of the eve everything is an exact replica of the existing roof um the details the um roofy brackets the exposed rafters um will also be duplicated and replicated um so we go to the next slide and then one more and so this is the existing um opening to the mud room that we're going to replace with a hip roof canopy door canopy which is going to be another slide couple slides forward yes please um itad hasn't moved yet okay so that's the existing mudro entrance we go one more and so here to the to the left is the new canopy entrance to the right is the inspiration for that which is a your canopy with brackets for a guest house so I think it's appropriate to have suddenly a secondary entrance has bracket that are a material that can be painted the same color as the stuck up otherwise the the rafter Tails um will be exposed to match that of the existing secondary entrance to the service St which was on the previous slide but we can go to the the next one to the right those are the Raptor Tails that will match to the left is the E brackets um and exposed Raptors that will match for the garage Ro um one more is there one yes um and one uh last note about material the front door is now paint green they want to strip the door down and stain it a medium brown color and if we go to the next slide the garage door synthetic um wood because of the exposure and so that's the selection the um the existing entry door would get stripped down to match that color as would the new entry door for the mudro and then I think there's one more slide just shows that we're going to be matching the existing trim um in profile as well as the black windows we we'll be doing it out of ASAC not the uh vinyl material that's there now um and that's it for my part um we also have our our engineer questions for him as well as the owner questions for what why don't we start the question to youly this is an archit ual presentation and if things come up for the engineer we have come up have any questions I guess um first of all talk to talk to us about the foundation for the garage because as you mentioned is speak slow and what what is your plan in terms of the type of foundation that you intend to build and how do you to prent further erosion sure I mean it'll be conventional um cement block Foundation that's going to be much taller in the back so it's going to start the same foundation so there actually be a storage area under the garage like another suble that's going to have conventional Foundation that's Frost protected so the the footing for that CMU 8 in ball will be 3 and2 ft below grade be there'll be a basement for the garage below below the the grade in the backyard the before the garage there will be sub another level that's uh 9 ftt below grade below the grade in the front but it'll be at grve in the back okay um there's a Janice I don't know if you want to go back to the uh um there's a elevation of the side of the house that shows the roof um Pitch that's it on the right you can see the uh the slope the um the back half of the garage will have a storage basement under it and then there'll be a full Foundation low grade at the back wall and how would one access that St space you just walk into it from the from the backyard because the backyard is 10 ft below the front yard so there would be like a door or something like that is that would yes okay yes exactly and then you said you said the the back wall of the C cement um sorry concrete block um covered with stucko to mat the house so it would just look like stuck on so you're I mean you're your your the intend of your design is to make this add fully complement the existing house yes to to make it look like um it always existed if they built garages back in the 19 18s or 1920s yes is this ever discussed with the historical uh yes U they made um a few they threw out a few ideas um and the one that we think that makes the most sense is to add a u a reveal between the new and the existing a vertical line and I that that drawing I believe is maybe in the file somewhere I have a copy of it here but it's a a 2in by 2in reveal signal um where the new and the and the original are separated sorry so I mean the reveal from your perspective is sufficient demonstrate that it's not even though it resembles the original would appear though it's part of the original it's not actually part of the original correct so it's a natural extension um and the and the intent of doing the the garage is is because at this point vehicles have to be parked in the circular driveway correct this would take cars off the driveway and put them into the garage there's nothing there's there's not even enough height for storage it's a yeah so it's it's the bare minimum height that it can be and the elevation shows very little massive wall because of the window for the mud room so it's just the doors come up to the Eve so it's a it's mostly paneling and glass more paneling glass and trim than wall stuff up and the the mud rooms will in a sense become sort of like the primary entrance I mean it's not the formal entrance because a formal entrance will obviously would be current exists entrance that's most frequently used yes yes because it provide now provides direct access to the kitchen whereas before they have to go back around and they to sort of do a z path you mentioned that that thees that are removed yes that's that's necessity see phot a lot ofes yes and then but you also mention that there will be uh Replacements correct did is that the request of the neighbors or is that decision of the home owner or the homeowners thought it was a good idea um it's their property they want to maintain certain number of trees on the property yeah I wasn't sure the trees that exist you know creating somewhat of a buffer between the properties of that's uh no um I mean they're they're not right up against the neighbors they're they're good the closest one is 20 fet away so they're really just they fill in what's missing um just one of the questions that is with the the garage the the entrance onto the property from Lord Road are you adjusting the the the herb cut herb cut no everything stays the same yes um you said three trees we um four four is that also including the engineers like store Mor is that is that more trees or do we have more trees do you know or is it for um I I believe it's it's for it's a consistent for between yeah um in the back there's steps that I guess the new garage will incorporate those steps within the new garage and they'll have door and use those steps to get down to the patio they're they're yeah they're next to the garage like it's so it's buried steps are between the existing house and the garage and you'll have a door you open you can go down the steps the backyard that way on the um yeah's see uh well there's a door from the interior to that to Landing to those steps about halfway along the depth of the garage so you come out of the kitchen to the mudro and then there's a glass door with the landing and then there's the Run of stairs okay um the the proposed storage shed underneath the garage how big will it go back uh roughly half way so about 12T okay um I looked at some of the pictures it looks like there are leaders that are somewhat going to the street or like underground um connections to the street possibly I mean I obviously the engineer is going to have the new leaders right connected to uh the storm water I imagine that's would be the garage yes suppose lighting for you is just the two lights in the front uh there's a light a surface mount Under The Canopy of the uh two two light two um wall mounts lights we have on each side um no we're just proposing the it's not this big this is just picture um and one last thing um just off the top of my um there's a picture of the building of the side where the roof line is going to go north facing side what image number uh that is going to be on that packet doesn't have facade East facade rear sk2 all is that this this I mean obviously you're showing this line again is what is that is that an electric what is that that's a electrical power line up to the roof like that's not like a lightning did you have it on your original um we're we're the owner doesn't know what it is so it's a hoping it's a lightning rod all right uh thank you yes thank you um couple questions uh the the setback the 50 Foot setback um this part of the house is already over that limit it's built to the average already that's correct so you're just proposing to extend the current line um is in between the average and the 50 exactly okay and the 35% um impervious coverage that includes the additional Paving required for the extension of the driveway yes it does all right and last question is how close will the addition be to the the neighbor's Carriage House I think it's on number 61 which is kind of like in the Northeast area look at Image six yeah Image six and image8 how close would the finish building be to that um I'm going to estimate at least 50 feet that much I okay I believe it house pretty far back so it's back and it's also lower right it's yeah well it's um 15 yeah 12 to 13 feet lower okay so say about 50 feet I would say at least 50 feet okay um yeah other question following up on the question on the um the variance you're requesting the front yard setback is the only VAR you're requesting correct corre yeah okay and um can you briefly describe the existing storm water management essentially the the roof leaders versus what proposed and if that's for the engineer just let me know no I can't I'm GNA let you talk with the engineer yeah and um the steps you the steps that that are going to be removed it wasn't clear to me that so you're removing the steps correct that are on the north side of the yes the steps that lead they lead to the backyard yeah are you going to replace the steps or there going to be a connection between yes there's new steps pretty much in the same place but that lead from the expanded mud room back down so but not to the stored space umre no I think so these are the steps that they're sort of in two locations so by building the garage the new steps are straight shot instead of L-shaped yeah path but the steps are outside the garage okay and then you enter the sub basement from yeah and the sub basement is not meant to be occupy correct just the St yeah ex yeah that's it those are only church the sub basement entrance on those steps or is there it's not from the steps it's from the rear yard okay how do they is there a way to get up to that door way will there be a way to get to that yeah because when you walk down to the patio it's at the same level as the patio in the back okay so if you're out here you can just open the door and enter because we have a full level exactly M it um I have one question um do you anticipate um needing to coordinate with any neighbor um with your neighbor for the tree removal um maybe they're they're not um like I said they're the closest one is about 25 feet away so I don't think um if it's how tall are the trees um they're fairly mature um I think there will have to be some coordination for a few branches but I think given the 25 30 foot distance think it's a be contentious issue of my okay thank you I I have a few questions um just making sure I'm understanding correctly currently there is not a separate entrance to the mud room from the front of the house is that correct correct you have to walk halfway or about 15 ft then make a right turn and then turn around come back and then go into the B blund and then throw the kit so one of the positive things this is accomplishing is creating that entrance to the mudroom is that correct yes and then a little struggling and with the connection between the existing mud room and the garage well expanded mudroom however you want to look at that you now have a nice solid wall there how is that being accomplished um to get into the garage yeah uh there's a door from the mud room straight into the garage and then going back to the trees two that you're reming are where the new driveway to the garage is located one is with the corner of it and the for it's not ajacent but I'm assuming you're going to have to do significant excavation at the front of the garage in order to get the finish grade to match finish grade at the rear is that correct yes and that's why that Tre is being removed yes exactly and um the soil that's being excavated what's becoming of that um think again that's probably a question for the engineers doing the did the cut and fill analysis there's a new graving plan that's part of the application the SC Conservation Commission had a few recommendations the one you went over they said either setting it back or create a slight R Ral in you the page you're going to create the sitei right yes um and then it they also um and the third recommendation was ensure consistency in the wood stain front doors and the garage doors and testified you're going to do that correct yes then they also said I'm not quite sure what this means pay attention to replic replicating Parts the pay attention part I don't know to the replicating the bracket details and ra details for meticulous design which we agreed to and which is exactly what we're proposing on the drawings to replicate duplicate the existing details and then they also recommended making the garage more subordinate by recessing the front of the garage one foot can you give a reason why you're not doing that um I think it would look uh unbalanced um if we move the front wall back a foot then the the roof no longer the bridge would no longer be aligned with the existing Ridge and to me it would just look like a mistake they just have it foot off it would look uh awkward to have it twoot Eve for the whole house to have a consistent twoot hangard Eve and then have the garage BCT the wall and only stick out one foot um to me it just looked like a mistake and it looked like you're um it should either be several feedback which would not be possible then you couldn't have a garage or a line flush and just have a consistent Ridge line um replicated then the last thing they said was to consider retaining the arch Doorway to the mudro by recessing the door 3 feet the building I say why you're not doing that so functionally it would compromise the the mud room it would no longer be a mud room be kind of an L-shaped hallway um second thing is that a 10 foot high um Archway over the mud room wouldn't really protect it from the elements it would just be typically a canopy wants to be right over the door and provide protection an archway would be to me over scaled for a small mudro but it would simply just wouldn't keep uh snow and leaves and dirt out of that area and be no longer a protected canopy or area are there any members of the audience who have questions for this witness just an opportunity for question this witness I'll be a later opportunity if you have on engineer you raise your right hand if you swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the TR I do and what is your name spell your name please name is Jeff last name is garan eg a r r i a n okay you're a PE in state of New Jersey correct licensed professional engineer my license is in good standing and I have testified before the board few years ago not recently okay you have with you the fight plan anding plan for the res that's correct yes okay thank you um much of the much of the project scope was covered with the architex testimony I'll kind of expand on it um a little bit and obviously answer any questions um so obviously with the construction of the new building Edition we will be uh constructing a new driveway to connect with that um addition we will be removing much of the existing uh improvements in that area the walkways um retaining walls and a rear patio uh behind the house we're going to be increasing the building coverage from 11.1% to 13.5 or 20% is required which conforms and obviously we discussed the in previous coverage that we'll be be raising that from 31.8% to 35 or 35 ft is allowable 35% 35% is level of thre um and the proposed uh new setback for the barrage is 43.8 Ft um where 50 ft is required and just to note there is an exist the existing front yard setback for the home is 38.3 ft so with with these improvements um there will be some minor regrading um in that portion of the property on the North side um we will be proposing uh small amounts of fill obviously we'll be removing four trees uh in conjunction with the addition and the grading operation to answer your question uh any excess fill on the property will be removed um so we're not proposing to just leave all the fill on site anything that's not being used will be removed and um you know lastly the propos addition is going to be connected to um a 1,000 Gall Ste pit we're providing roughly 430 cubic feet of H volume which equates to a little over 3,200 gallons of water so certainly this is going to be an improvement over the uh existing conditions that area right now it is a steep slap area uh I don't know if the photographs give it enough justice but there isn't much ground cover over there there's not much lawn um so you know there is a high runoff air uh rate in that area um which will certainly be reduced um with these improvements and um you know it will be uh an overall Improvement and not a detriment to those uh adjacent properties as far as storm water goes I've read through the engineers comment letter um I take no exception to his comments and we can conform to all of those so um any questions question um so the the driveway it looks like the driveway is higher and everything pitches back to the backyard is that correct yes that's correct do you anticip the proposed driveway you're putting up to the new garage will that be um Belgium Block or something curb on that side there yes there will be there will be curbing yes you're going to put a drain there at the corner is that you're or like there will be a channel Dr across the entire width of the new driveway okay do you anticipate getting equipment back there be difficult I don't think so no um and do you anticipate um more water so you have you have the runoff would be um just a discharge area correct that okay and the tank that you're proposing there will store how much water in that loation uh the volume is stored for the 100-year store which is most Sur all values we're proposing rough over 3,200 gallons of water 430 cubic feet okay and you'll have all the leaders off of the new garage going to going towards that uh storm water um area is that correct along with the new driveway area with the new driveway area yeah okay thank you Mr Simon no questions Mr VI um I guess some of the questions were already answered the the other question I had was Do You observe any otion happening in the steep slope anything that needs to be per um well part of the engineer comment letter to us is he wants us to stabilize that slope with some juk matting which we will do um that technology Works fantastic um so that will be implemented in that area uh again to eliminate any any further erosion I do understand that that that area will be landscaped in the future um but certainly um it even if it's never done or not they don't get around to that Juke netting J netting will prevent any erosion that was good thank you Mr Church no question M Harris the seage tank that's only collecting water from the garage you're not going to tie any other no just just the new proposed improvements from the build buil the garage Edition and the driveway and then um how what's the volume see tank it's a 1,000-gallon tank and with this with the stone voids uh and the overall cut it's going to yield approximately 3200 gallons of water this gr no questions one second I'm reading through the engine here sure you're not agreeing to something you don't want to sure what I didn't see the engineers and this is just conf whether I need to add it so I didn't see anything in the engineer report about the question about the removal of excess material okay I have a note on my plan that states any excess material should shall and will be removed from the from the site it's note number no here's your plan it's note number eight the first sentence of number eight have last key part and disposed up lawfully absolutely EAS but I need to that the condition to does the Note say that no you have to add that okay are there any members of the audience who have questions for this Witness NOP is anyone on behalf of the applicant want to say anything before we oh let me first are there let's do do the applicant want to present any other testimon I think my team good um are there any members of the audience who have any testimony comment anything you want to say about the application this is your one and only opportunity now does theate want to say anything for or EI any of it witness any of their Witnesses want to say anything further thank you um we'll start discussion with Mr viea thank you Mr chairman um I'm generally in favor of this application I think these are great improvements for the site now I would like to hear from my colleagues about the the front yard parking I mean that it's you know this is a topic of discussion that we've had before but in general I think uh it's a good addition um it's an existing um variance or non-conformance um so it's it's it's just that I think there's improvements on the storm water management on the site um slope stabilization with the uh G gatting um I think that that would be great to control any erosion caused by uh by water and um yeah so I'm Mr Simon actually I have one more question um how many vehicles do you own two so both will be inside the garage so nothing is expected to be outside anym this do me favor let the engineer you're aware that they have two cars he just told you yes I am aware they have two cars and and the two cars going to put in the garage you're aware of that yes that guy's under gr so the intent is to not have any cars visible from the street after this swear in yeah let's swear you in tried to save it but raise your right hand you swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes and identify yourself and spell your name Elias e l i a s last name zoner z a u n e r you can you can say sorry for just one question but it's just to confirm that the intent is not to have any cars visible from the street once this construction is compl yeah we only own two cars no plans to buy any more cars okay that was it thank you I'm in favor um you you're not proposing to put a second Story down on the top of this somay are you no okay um I'm in favor I just you know having that being that way maybe someone pass you might want to put a second addition on that but otherwise I'm in favor of this project yeah I'm also in favor of this I'm presuming however that uh you're not making the statement that cars will never be parked if we have guests in our home exct that would be a reason there will be times maybe even overnight because it is on your property so but the intent is for your permanent vehicles to be in the garage as opposed to being in the in the the main reason we want the garage I mean especially in the winter with snow and ice the convenience of the garage is the main motivation for the project Miss Harris I'm in favor and um to answer Mr VI's question about the parking in the front I don't think there's any place else on theage is Grant I'm in favor I did have one more question seems to be the pattern I'm sorry I was going to ask about if you encounter a groundwater there's a note here about encountering groundwater but it says contact the engineer so what was the plan if you encounter groundwater with the excavation for the ground as part of the steage tank design we need to do a field percolation test uh so that's a general note but the city requires us to prove to them before we uh get our building permits if that's going to be acceptable so it's standard note but we need to submit a cation test and do a test fit so um and read not but that is handled under the building permit and I I do coordinate that with the city engineer okay thank you was that um it's number uh five oh it's on the plan yeah it's on the plan Mr church I'll break the pattern no questions on um also in favor of the application I think you know the one part of the houseing approaches further on the front yard step back and the proposed garage does it lines up with that part part of the house that's adjacent to because of the slope they really can't move it back further and um no reason to shrink its width um I think um you know given the location of the house on the property just justifies the granting of variance and it will result in a substantial detriment to the public M of substantial impairment to the Zone plan uh the condition go it Mike told me when you started the conditions to press record go ahead that the they should adhere to the second part of the first condition of historic pres preservation commission that they create a slight reveal between the addition in the main building for aesthetic enhancement and they adhere to the second and third condition for the historic preservation as the testimony indicated they would that they adhere to the conditions in the engineers memo as stated and that um that any excess fill that is removed from the property prob be disposed of law any other comments conditions for members of the board if not with someone like make a motion to approve those conditions I will make a motion to approve the application with the conditions mentioned all in favor say I this brand stuck up staining how quickly you get set up think this now or we can set up in 30 seconds okay do it a break if you see me get up and get in you'll know why as long as I see him walking in yes yes yes you're stuff Jonathan if you now leave yeah start set up we can get started we're here for a continuation of the public hearing on the application of 400 gr Mr chairman Gregory m v Ro MC m Verona on behalf of the applicant as you had just stated this is a continuation the application we were last here um in May um we since that time Mr chairman I'm happy to report that um we have uh heard the uh public people who attended the meeting um we set up and had a meeting an informal meeting with members of the community uh in the area of the application on way and a word place with an open invitation um we had what we thought was a very productive meeting um and um hopefully we have satisfied the dors as well as we have addressed some of the concerns that many members of the board um had addressed um very briefly and then we'll start with the witnesses we reduced the number of units seven change the style um dramatically from the uh style that you had introduced to something much more traditional that Mr garble um will will uh testified to we reduced the height of the tow houses to two and a half stories at least on most sides um arguably we need a we still need a variance for um the third story if you view it from the re but we will address that we substantially changed the access there is now um only oneway drive with Ingress excuse me we eliminated the the W Place access and now we have two-way Ingress and ESS on Pleasant way we therefore because we had reduced a unit we now only need 18 spaces um rather than 21 spaces um we've reduced the total um building area by approximately 15% um the total impervious we have reduced by approximately 16% which substantially reduced rear yard setback um so I'm excited for Mr Barber to be able to introduce that testimony um and um to proceed with his new his new renderings and plans first though because we're not sure how how far we're going to get this evening Mr chairman one of the U big concerns um at the last meeting was with regard to the prior contamination on the property um I say prior contamination um we have uh Mr Ron Dooney here this evening from uh terms Consulting he was the lsrp on this project and I'd like to introduce uh Mr Dooney as my first witness U and then proceed with h testimony from Mr Dooney okay so just for the record in May shimone clapner the applicant was sworn and Richard Garber the architect was sworn in so anyone other than them we're going to be sworn in tonight so can you please raise your right hand you swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this I'm gonna do one the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do okay can you again give for the record your name and spell your last name Ronald Doney d o o NE Y and it's Junior okay and your credentials are you a I am an licensed lsrp which is licensed site remediation professional licensed by New Jersey and the and the licensing board that was Li okay will accept you and M Mr Doney you're familiar with the site correct yes I am okay when did you first uh become familiar with the site it was uh probably March of 2023 and what was uh were you engaged uh for a purpose by the property owner yes we were engaged to address sever several areas of concern that had been identified um as remaining at the site at that time and who had identified those areas of concern was identified as essentially in a phase one that was done by Brinks environmental um they are an and environmental consult uh mediation company okay so you were hired by the owner to then I was H yeah I was hired directly by the owner to oversee the work that had to be done and and conduct whatever work we needed to do ourselves but I oversaw everything as the El okay and um just to cut to the chance was the work ultimately done yes they U there were several tanks that were left at the property at that time to specifically two 1500g warmer gasoline tanks and there was an area in the back that was uh mounded with some soil uh fill material uh and that was removed and we removed it to a depth until we got clean samples and you ultimately got clean samples we got clean samples in the tank area uh after removing a little bit of soil there and removing soil in the back and then we got clean simples there as well were there any other was there any other environmental remediation that you were required to do under state regulations no we did uh we did include um groundwater investigation as part of the tank area and also to uh triangulate groundwater flow so we had three monitoring Wells and none of the the contaminants of concern were identified in any of them there was sodium in one well I believe uh and you subsequently corresponded with the uh New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection as the lsrp I issued a what is now called the response action outcome letter um Rao for short uh in the past the D would issue no further action letter but when they began the lsrp program in 2009 phased in by 2012 we now issue Rao letters instead of nfas you issued that letter January 22nd 2024 is that correct did and you have a copy of that letter um I believe Janice will be the next page might be it that's that's actually I could I could explain that now or okay let's go right now there's an exhibit um on U the state of New Jersey and it's a letter from 1995 I believe um it's an NFA is that correct do we have a paper copy of that to put it in as an exhibit we can submit a paper copy I don't have one in front of me can you print I have okay so why don't we print it and let's make that exhibit A7 A7 right okay um and so what's a77 is a letter um from 1995 from the uh New Jersey I think at the time it was the um and it is a no further action letter and and explain that yes Mr Mr Dy please at that time the D provided oversight there was no lsrp program and this letter indicates the D was satisfied and issued a no further action letter for 3 8,000 gallon gasoline tanks at the time and one 550 gallon waste oil tank including all of the dispensers and piping that was removed at that time so we got in there were two tanks left the tanks were removed in 1995 that letter indicates the approval of the de so you're able to as the lsrp skipping forward the 2024 you're able to rely on that no further action letter correct yes okay but your further investigation also was consistent with the findings of that in is that correct absolutely yes Qui quick no further action letter it was issued just for the stuff that was removed or did they miss the two other tanks that were there well was it was issued for those tanks that were removed at the time so there were two tanks that were left there that weren't included in this NFA okay s if you could turn the P to the next page please uh Mr Doney can you identify U this um it looks like a three-page um letter that is on one screen is that correct yes this is another one we're gonna can you print this one out a A8 letter from whom yeah Iden it's from myself Ronald Dooney as the lsrp was the letter addressed to it is addressed to Simon clner the owner of the property okay and it as as if you can read it it indicates that it the response action outcome letter is for or addresses areas of concern and including the two 1500g panks that were removed and the debris we called the debris area in the back that was piled up that we removed everything that had any impacted soil in it and also the groundwater investigation which didn't reveal anything above the standards for for our investigation is this the response action outcome letter be next okay this is the response action outcome letter letter but not the no I understand and what date this is the January 2 2 2024 January 222 24 yes okay and Mr Mr Dy um Mr clner testified last week last time we were here that all of the um environmental issues had been resolved is this your confirmation to him that all of the environmental issues have been resolved yes um the next page please Jan actually okay well the report exists okay let's talk talk about the report um can you briefly describe to the board and as briefly as you can without getting into the science of what goes into the report and that ultimately is carried into the into the uh um um outcome response letter sure um each area of concern uh depending on what it entails requires a site investigation to determine if any contamination exists at that area if it does the DP then requires you to delineate it in a phase called the remedial investigation phase and if anything uh anything you've identified and delineate it then can either be removed or in some cases capped in this case everything was removed and that would constitute the remedial action phase once that is done and you've got all your samples uh generally referred to as post excavation samples and they're clean that allows under the regulations me to issue this R okay and it's your opinion unequivocably this evening that U your work is done and that the property that there's no further action that is required of the property owner as it relates to the DP yes I had no further question Mr Mr you have any question just uh guess one question last the last meeting application um it was concern exposed by some of the public winess is skepticism about the removal of of any contaminated materials and so I just sort of RA the question about how is how is that done in such a way that neighbors would not be aware that that work is being going to takeen mean that Norm is it done in in a way that is rather if you're asking would it be obvious that work was being done at the site certainly the tanks were removed 1,500 gallon tanks are 20 feet long uh 6 feet in diameter they were sitting actually on the site for um more than a couple days I I actually received a call from the town and a and a uh neighbor asking why the tanks were still there uh and they were I called BRS who had removed them they were waiting on the profiles I guess uh to make sure that I mean the results to make sure there was no more sampling and once we knew that everything was good a couple days later the tanks were removed so it was obvious these tanks were sitting there there used to be a pile of soil now there's a hole in the back which we did not fill because of the plan Redevelopment and so yeah I think I think it would have to be relatively obvious that there was work being done there yeah I mean that certainly was a question that seemed to to occupy quite a bit of concern and a on the part in some of the public Witnesses um how could this they were very skeptical that this work had actually been accomplished but you're you're giving us information that says that that in fact this was done and that someone in the public at least one person in the public had had queried as to why those T still sitting there that's correct thank you much Mr have any question yeah um so 1995 is 30 years ago right do we why is why were some tanks taken out and some were not it's not uncommon for them to they might have still been in use at the time okay um and uh and just as an aside because it happens to be that far back the standards used to be much U more stringent than they are for hydrocarbons now for instance just they were 100 parts per million was the cleanup standard and then they went to 10,000 and now they're back to 51 so they would have cleaned it up to 100 back then okay much more than you would do now okay um if it's good or bad um but well they've changed standards over time they went much lower then they went back halfway and that's where about they sit now um do we know it was I mean the facility was a um landscaping business these tanks were for gasoline is not necessarily what a landscape would use right this is like maybe a gas station it was a former gas station definitely um one well found sodium naturally occurring DP considers it what they call secondary uh constituent and unless you're producing sodium at the site it's you don't have to investigate it any further okay thank you um you said the tanks were removed and they remained on the site while they waited for the results to come back yeah I believe that that was the reason they sat there initially they might have not gotten back to them right away but they were they were there a couple days after after the town someone from the town called me and the neighbor called me so actually I called them on uh at the request of some of them from the town were they protected or isolated in any way they were stored on the site on plastic I believe they they were cut first of all I didn't explain that process in detail but when you pull a tank you excavate the top you cut it open you pump out any resist idual and then you go in and clean it out to the point where you're wiping it down with oil uh absorbent uh pads so when that tank comes out it's clean clean and it has to be rendered unusable before it could go off site which it was um so while it was sitting there it had been cleaned completely before it was removed from the ground so in in that time frame that they're waiting test results if the test that came back negative or or bad the tanks sitting out there wouldn't have contributed to any other no I think the the reason is you don't want to mobilize back to the site get rid of the tanks and then have to go back out when you get results and say oh now there's more digging we have to do if you're going to have to do more digging leave the tanks there because when you're done digging then you'll use the equipment you dug to put the tanks on a truck yeah so so the fact that the tanks are wiped down meant they POS no danger while they waiting for results they were totally clean they have to be in order to get them scrapped they won't accept anything that's not perfectly clean okay because that's how they're disos up they're scrap thank you just so the record Mr suan had replaced Mr drill and Mr drill is quite thrilled to see me I might add have any question chair um question about as part of this scul of your award did that include also soil borings around the site there were soil borings that I reviewed that were conducted by um Brinks during their phase one and there were no other uh areas where contamination was identified the tanks had to come out whether they were was any contamination or not but in that case there was a little bit but the test borings around there the only ones that that found anything were in that back area Associated what what we call the debris pile I think that ra and other than that they did other borings um analyzed for whatever possible constituents pesticides other hydrocarbons and the borings which is a phase two you do a phase one you identify any potential areas and you investigate those as a phase two and if there's contamination then you're going to have to go through the D process to get a clean bill of health if there's no contamination then you stop at the phase two so there was phase two done on areas and we focused in on the areas where contamination and the tanks were so the the just to confirm there was a phase two so borns were done and then the um remediation focus on the back of the pro correct yes that's correct and then the the other question I had is support of the due diligence are you aware that were there any scans done to kind of verify that there are no other tanks because we you know two 1500 T 1500 gallon tanks were left just to confirm there nothing else buried in the ground yes there was uh brings to the GPR uh ground penetrating radar survey and found nothing else they do that with in-house equipment and given where the tanks were apparently located before the two we pulled were in the front right corner as viewed from Orange um the other ones were reportedly right in front 38000 gallon tanks are rather large um so there's not a lot of extra space in that front where you might have put another tank and the waste tank was in on the back right side of the building so but they did do a GPR um and uh did not find anything else thank you Mr church do you have any questions not at this time right you have any questions yes I do um so the the two tanks that um you are speaking about they were registered with d yes and we had to put in a 14-day closure notice it's not an approval it's just a notice that you intend to pull them D doesn't really do much about that anymore they want to make sure that their the registration is paid up the date that's the real concern with that notice but yes that was done um and then the permit was taken out locally and then once the tanks were removed we de listed them with it's a process DP has when you're doing anything with tanks that are regulated either you're putting new ones you're changing ones or you're removing them you would you would do a delisting they all the um the tanks um usually like you know when you have a tank it's inspected did on um when it was in use um and this these tanks were in use from 1995 so the other things removed in 95 I believe according to the phase one they were still there at that time at that time um when they actually sto being used that we don't have anything that says specifically but now yes they have to be inspect you have a a bunch of systems when you upgraded them to to be in compliance that are like alarms and overfill alarms and you what they call interstitial where where something leaks through one wall you'll catch it back then they didn't have that but they did have periodic inspections of of them um when you finish your report um any of that historic information on the tanks is listed in the report like if there were or were inspections or any of those records about um how the tanks were maintained when they were in use no because the way to deal with that is you take the tank out you determine if there's holes you might report it just because of the holes or if you see or smell or we have field screening instruments and if you find anything through any of those methods you would go investigate further take samples in this case we did and we had to remove a couple hundred tons of material that appeared impacted and then once that was done we went in and take samples which is um there one every side well every 30t and one every 5T on the bottom of each tank so you basically you know you're getting for those tanks uh probably eight nine samples each the reason why I was asking is because um if there if there was a um usually when there's a Lea and you know it's reported so maybe um some of that um historic information would um ease some of the residents concerns about um from the time the tanks were in use until they were kind of removed um that there were no incidents so that's why I brought that up and well there is when we found contamination we did call in to the hotline which is a spilled uh response hotline you call in you get an incident number and then that incident number is part of the overall project identification within the D's process and that is listed I believe on the uh the communication number is 22 so on August uh 8th at uh 4 53 that was reported but that's the only time you would know that there was a release underneath the tank was after you pulled the tank any question M haris I have an editorial comment which you don't have to respond to I am fascinated what was happening in D in the mid90s in Essex County because another site M Clair they I've been involved in they issued an NFA that really shouldn't have been issued and I'm curious because you know we we approved the inial Gent in 96 so and clearly the gas station was gone at that point and there was no reason for any of the tanks to remain you don't have to answer I just I'm fascinated that the um I do have a couple questions for you does this need a re remedial action permit no the the only time you would need a permit is if you left any contamination like historic bill that had compound above the standard in this case we removed it to avoid any need for a permit or a de notice for that by this same token just to confirm there's no need for a deed notice there's no need for engineering controls there's it's over and done the the notice would be an Institutional control and a cap would be in engineering and there's no need for either of them and then last question you indicated that pre monitoring Wells were installed are those still in place they are they're going to be removed as part of the Redevelopment that was next question okay are there any members of the audience who have questions for this witness again this is just an opportunity to ask questions of a later opportunity to have any comments on the application and it's only questions to this witness about the site remediation I know you had a number of questions before and now they provide the witness who should be able to answer any questions that how are you um I SP with I just give us your name and address pleas my name is Janet I live at five place onire I'm leing my mask on um Mr Downey I spoke to you about the tanks you said that the tanks initially were removed a couple of days and then you changed it I live directly across the street those tanks sat there for at least four months four to five months along with the debris massive piles of so your statement about removing them was one I called you and got your number from E you said to me we were not aware that those tanks were still there you said it's you are those things still there and I said they are and thankfully you would he came and removed them the very next day but those tanks sat there for at least 6 months they were rained on they were not cleaned they were rusted out there was no filter no netting put over the dirt whatsoever I did not see hundreds of tons Mr chairman respectfully is there a question of this yeah the question is you said you don't listen he's the I understand but I'm talking to to him not you no but the the attorney has the he has the right to object which is what he just did this is not a trial but but but it is a quasi judicial hearing I understand and he has the right to object okay what is he objecting to he was he he was he was objecting because you were going on and on and on and were not asking a question I'm asking the question when did the tanks get removed first there were two to three days it was months please tell me when I spoke the incident was called in on August 8th of 20 grade the tanks were removed sometime maybe it was months later but after you called it was several days and the tanks were absolutely clean I inspected them I know they were clean I'm an lsrp in the state of New Jersey and if I made that representation that wouldn't I wouldn't make that representation because it wasn't true they were cleaned they were staged on site and if they stayed there longer than they absolutely needed to be I you know maybe they could have been removed a little bit earlier but they again were waiting to see if we had to do other work and actually as I pointed out before you don't want to come and remove the tank and then find out your results are above the standard and you have to go back again you want to remove the tanks after you know you're done and you're either back filling or you're done with your sampling and in the back area the samples that we had we had to dig several more times to get more soil out so during that time the tanks would have been sitting there yes right Mr Dan you said that you remov the tanks in March of 2023 did you not am I correct am I incorrect about that August August of 2023 that's when the report was the incident was called into the D and the tanks were set there for at least six months thereafter with all the three well it could have been six months because I issued The Rao in January 2021 24 2023 I'm they were can I yes go if they were removed in August and I issu the letter in January the tanks would have been removed sometime in the latter part of 2023 and if it was August and it was removed in November how many months is that it's not six months it's more like four yeah but you said a couple of days initially after after I was advised with a phone call from the town and from you that the tanks were still there I called they said yeah we have everything we'll get out there and get rid of the tanks and that's what happened okay well there is a discrepancy in what we said so I wanted to make sure and I thank you for removing T my next question is this there is one tank still in the back that needs to be capped is that correct no what needs to be capped nothing that I'm aware of why was there no netting or any sort of netting set on the dirt because doing rainstorms and I'm directly across the street there was rivers of red mud from that site pouring into the stre Su while those tanks sat there and that dirt and debris sat there I did an Instagram post about the why was that sight not netted so that that dirt did not move in run when you say netted iing to I was told that the dirt needed to be netted so that it didn't move I I mean as far as netting I don't know what that refers to I've been in this industry since 1983 I've never heard of netting the soil so I'm really not sure what you're talking about well let let me ask a little were any soil erosion control measures installed around the Dirt Pile there was a plastic on top of it which at one point I know came off and they went out and they put more plastic on that's what according to what I saw and what I was told you'll have a later opportunity to present any evidence you want to present okay Mr Downing this is all that's been sitting on top of the dirt is snow fencing for the last year this is all that's been sitting on top of any of the dirt what I'm not sure what you're and there was nothing on the Dirt Pile that was in the front of the two tanks came out of the tront I saw the dirt go back into the into the hole Mr chairman I'm not sure the relevance of I mean making an application we have testimony that the property has been cleaned certified why don't we have a copy of that and I'm not really sure what the relevance of when it was cleaned matters or may get okay let me do several things when you're going to testify if you want to rely on what is on your cell phone please print out what what you have so we can see it assuming one I don't want you to pass around your phone to all of us and Mr M look at it but so you know anything you want to introduce that you have photos on your cell phone please print that out so we can look at it um I may I make a suggestion first of all we didn't even know where this meeting was being held today so we could if we could get copies of these reports okay so as for reasons that are as obscure to me as it is to you the these two documents that were introduced tonight A7 and A8 they didn't have prepared they distribute to the board or the public before the hearing we are not going to finish the hearing tonight so they were going to be printed out they'll be available at in the planning office you know for your inspection or you can well you know the planning staff asked for a copy to be emailed to I the meeting the council needed to move its meeting because of the special election to replace Congressman Payne they chose tonight no one had the foresight to realize we were scheduled to meet in the council chambers I am more unhappy than you are that we are meeting here but we were bumped and there are signs throughout the building saying we're up here but it's the same night we announced the same building we announced that's no F questions I just wanted to ask Mr two questions are there any gu please come up and give your name and address again please hi there I'm sh I live in 17 World place um I guess um I'm just G to go with what I heard before I guess like the question of the safety of the cleaning and everything and the fact that you said couple of days but it was couple of month I guess our concern is do they really care about us about the neighborhood it almost feel like they will of course you know do or say anything to have the authorization but at the end of the day they're saying they're making statement that were not true so it's hard to to trust the whole project okay do you have a question of the witness what would you be doing for us to trust you and because I heard a lot of U I'm assume I assume I assume but this Janet that is across doesn't see what she saying so and it seems like you know the documents there's some documents but not everything is published actually it is it is published and I believe if was submitted along with those two letters the actual final report right that said is here's what was done and how it complies with the regulations um as far as when I say assume I'm not on the site 24 hours a day I'm relying on to some extent on the people that are there to tell me what's going on on any particular day but I go out periodically on every site and I look at what's going on and I make sure that it's in compliance and you know I I understand how these are not typical situations for the neighbors and for the residents but I can assure you that this is this was done in a very typical way of the D following the D rules and you know that's that's all I I mean I could tell you that it was done right and if you don't trust what I'm telling you I mean if the EP trust me enough to license me and and act as their representative on sites and that was the whole process that was created through the you just report today was not exact so that's why you know I'm I'm asking you know how can we trust your words if you know there is a lot of assumption as you said well first of all there was a question about the two days I never said the tanks were removed two days after they were pulled I said they were removed two days after I was made aware they were still on the site and that someone had an issue with it there's nothing in the DP rule says they have to be removed within 3 months four months they can they could sit out there for longer I mean there's no rule that says you can't do that because if they out there if you supposed to remove them to remove the issues and they're sitting there for a month and being rained on like isn't it an issue if if they weren't cleaned I would agree that there might that maybe they shouldn't be left there if they weren't cleaned but they were cleaned I I personally inspected them I'm not assuming that I did it thank you welcome evening good evening Leonora rush I'm at 15 W place um my first question is is there any requirement or recommendation from the DP to notify any of the residents within the surrounding area there is um a public notification if you're doing a remediation that would uh would require a sign which I had a picture of the sign I don't know if it's in a report but there was a sign up at one point I don't know how long it uh stood there after they finished their the digging out there would you know approximately where the sign was located on what street I think it was on the front right corner and there is it a a a general size that it's supposed to be I 2 by something not sure exactly what the dimension is there is a dimension so it's a would be a small sign then yeah relatively small sign so easy to miss perhaps in your es yeah okay so that's the only public notice that's correct and you have choices you can either put a sign or you can send that a letter to everybody within 200 feet and whose responsibility or choice is to do that the responsible party in this case the property owner who makes a recommendation to the property owner or or or makes the property owner aware of the different um ways to do that I either myself or anybody involved who was directly communicating with them but in this case I I told the property owner through Brinks and Brinks did a sign and there was a picture of that time somewhere I think it's in the report that you'll that be made public I guess at the so yeah it's somebody's got to tell them and in this case I told Brinks Brinks told them and that's the way it went is that to notify it just so I'm clear I'm sorry you may have answered this but is that to notify a c is there like to notify a certain radius of people within the area you have two choices to satisfy that public uh notification one is a sign or the other is a letter to everyone within 200 feet within 200 feet okay that's helpful thank you I do appreciate that um the second question I have is now you said the tanks were removed on what date approximately to the best of your Rec recollection August 8th no no I well I'm sorry let me you said the tanks when were the tanks actually pulled up out of the ground that's I believe August 8 because what happens in almost every case is you remove the tank and if you identify any sign of contamination you call it into to the to the these hotline so you believe they were they were actually removed on August 8th I think so it would be the exact dates in the report but I think based on that incident number that the incident number is the date it's the year the month the day and the time of day and then how many calls that day in this case it looks like there was a tell was 30 38 gold think anyway that's what the I'm just telling you what that case number or incident number is actually it's the date and time okay so remove onor about August 8 and then it's cleaned on that same day it takes not necessarily no it's no well you start investigating sometimes you have to do one round and you just take samples and it's clean sometimes you have to go back and take more samples in this case we riate what was obviously impacted then we took the post excavation samples but there are many cases where you take those post excavation samples and some one or more are still dirty so you have to go back out dig some more soil out wait for the results from the lab then decide if you have all clean samples and then you could be done with that area and the report would detail that be okay all right so the report would detail exactly how long the tanks would have remained out and the possibility of the back and forth that the this this particular situation would have required yes yes I'm I'm not if there's a specific concern maybe you know ask I I am asking questions I'm trying to answer specific and you are actually um specific questions okay so we don't know exactly how long that process took place but it's supposed to be within the report yes okay and then from when the tanks were actually removed from the ground and then um actually removed from the area from August to November again I don't know the exact date that we had that conversation but it was several days two days I believe um after I had had that conversation that they were removed that will be also in the report tank uh scrap receipt would indicate what dat they were taken to the facility and that would be an attachment to the report and at any other time during this process is there any other requirement to notify the people within 200 M well what did you say 200t 200 ft not not unless you had to put a deed notice uh and a per in place or if you had groundwater contamination and we didn't have any of those so that would be a situation where you might have to do additional notification thank you Mr any other members of the public who have questions Mr Scott good evening Scott I have ridle property at 382 orange Ro I'm outside of that 200t range of not but uh being retired for the last 10 years I visited my property in orang many many times and I was fully aware watched the med mediation process quite some time and I and I can concur with neighbors that I had the same concern because you know you can almost see on a daily basis it was quite a bit of activity I I just have one additional have a question for you it was also work being done by Public Service on the corner of Orange Road and wpl uh and they had did a major digging which was right next to one of those major tanks and there was also a sewer string on that corner as well um so if there was any issue with leakage not even sure if public service was uh made aware or any of your testing would be feel that there could have been some leakage into the sewer system there was no indication that it went anywhere near that far it was uh maybe I think I don't know 150 yards 200 uh 200 some odd tons and it didn't extend very far the report will show exactly where the tanks were and how far away the contamination extended before we had clean samples I wasn't aware they were digging up and I'm not sure when that happened but um but again if if this this was reaching a sewer line or a utility line uh we would have encountered it when we were cleaning it out because we have to keep digging until we get clean samples so if we we had to go further and further and we encountered a utility line that would have um you know first of all we do have to everyone in New Jersey before they dig they have to call the utility markout in three days prior so everybody in the utility companies would come out and Mark out the electric and the gas and the sewer and whatnot so those are all marked out before you do it so you know if you're anywhere near them uh especially it's the gas line they would sometimes want to come out and watch you do it but to my knowledge we W nowh close enough to worry about that well I mean with with our excavation I mean it is it 20 ft away I mean we worry when there's a utility line 2 feet away from where we're going to dig that's a problem if it's 10 ft you know and we have to start digging closer to that then we might stop and make sure we hand big out you know utility line but in this case there were none that were close enough where there was any concern with them and then the only thing that I would also be concerned with I I don't remember seeing any any netting over the drainage or the sh holes on work place or pleasing act because if there was very large PS dirt you know rainy and run off and things of that nature could have been an issue but again I I know in some cases you you might want to put some kind of something over the swer I don't know whether net would be yeah I I don't know that term but net would you'd want to put something solid over prent the dirt from the run from getting but um again not not that I'm aware of I mean there was nothing placed over there them that I'm aware of and I don't know that anything was running in there on a regular basis that would have been contaminated it might have been a uh you know I can I say for certain there's no soil erosion on the site at all I know but I don't know that the pile was going anywhere as far as anything that was contaminated by the way there was material and still material along the side of that excavation that is not contaminated and it's above the grade so you know there there's not a specific Environmental rule that says you have to um protect that material from going anywhere because if it's not contaminated it's not a it's not an environmental issue but in my my last question to probably would agree perception is very important especially when you see something that major going on in your your community and your neighbor and across from your residence and that was an extended period of time that that remediation took place so you know if you're not living here every day you don't get to feel that the neighbors I resident Sky something that you don't want over at that point no and I and I understand that I mean when we when we do the work this is something we do you know every day and we do it in a way that we're making sure that we're following the D's rules and sometimes you know we take may take it for granted that there's a neighbor that wants to know what's going going on and you know if they come out and ask we I would certainly answer if I was there but uh you know we did everything you know the way it's it's typically done and the way it's required to be done thank you are there any other members of the public who have questions for this witness Mr chairman just for the record of the report is dated January 10th 2024 it is 87 Pages um we will submit it it's technical but 1700 s700 1700 PES um right that's why we did not submit it previously we had a Dropbox it's technical um I just have one other question of the witness um Mr Doney is it your testimony that you at all times complied with the New Jersey D requirements yes I have a couple of questions um then I want to clarify what we doing um the report everyone keeps saying report I assume this is the remedial action report that we're discussing it's actually titled us um site investigation remedial investigation remedial action report so you combined we combined all the reports into one which is very comment and um the Mr sah I think you know and I've seen these and guess you can fill up a bookcase very quickly with these but I think what if let me ask a question is there somewhere in the report that does that easily has a chronology of when the tanks were dug up when the soil was tested when you got the results when the tanks were removed that so the members of the public you know you you know you are uncertain of the dates I understand why given your rol is at lsrp but is there something that could be extracted out that we could we could create we could create an exhibit Mr chairman and submit that exhibit absolutely okay and then the other part of that is um if this if the sign is shown in the reports whatever that page picture is and showing that it the dimensions met the requirements in um D's regulations happy to do that also okay and then one question I should have asked before um your Rao says you're not dealing with the inside of the buildings which I understand so Mr merera and I don't know who should address this but I potentially there's an ISS you know lead pay as bestest as all that fun stuff I assume someone will say something about the the buildings will be inspected and that material will be yes if there is any contaminants lead paint asbest Etc that will be removed prior to the our engineer who will obviously be testifying at a later date and testify to that absolutely can go home unless you want to sit here I'd rather not but uh nothing further thisness um the bo you want to take a break now you want to who's Mr M who's your next um Mr Garber will I assume he will be a long time oh we hope not Mr chairman we're going to go through some changes I think the the the basics of the application have been break now wait through we're marching on okay Mr chairman have Richard Garber Mr Garber was previously sworn um at the last meeting Mr Garber your licenses are still um in effect nothing has changed since the last meeting is that correct correct yes and you've prepared uh some modifications to the application is that correct we have Okay can and um if you want to begin with your slides and um tell the board what was changed and why it has changed for the better in your opinion sure sure so let me just ask you is this a new set of slides different from exhibit A1 from the first hearing yes okay so are we going to mark this we we'll mark this um Mr S as this set presentation um as a I think we're up to A9 I think we're up to A9 yes okay and were these distributed to the board members no these were submitted to the municipality on Monday and then we actually updated them uh this morning and sent them so I assume there are no copies we are observing the screen that correct oh correct I wasn't informed to bring them so I apologies for that yeah um we can do that I know where I'm fixing my eyes got it got it um so I'm going to be hopefully brief and if I if someone can yeah you so I'm going to go through a couple of context images context hasn't changed Orange Road runs north south we have a cemetery to our West we have um uh R1 type of single family homes to are um East as well as to our um West right so up above and you can see that here um if we just continue going I'm going to talk very briefly about hopefully very briefly about three items uh that we did if you can continue please let's go to the rendering we'll just start with that um got one more please one Mar so this is a this is an update that we've done uh to the the the buildings now you'll remember that when we came last time we were asked about the Aesthetics of the project which one can see that we've addressed and I'll talk more specifically about them about the Ingress and egress to the site which we will also address and and as Mr mesera said the Ingress and egress is now only on Pleasant right and and I confirmed actually tonight that there is 600 50 plus feet of curb J on the other side of pleasant we are the only per cut before the houses start side and I'll show you the site plan in a second um and we were asked about density and we have now brought down the density from 8 to 7 and what we've done is and the reason why I start with this image is we still have two pairs of town homes on orange which is a big more dense road but if you look down Ward we have a single town home that's the seventh town home and what we're referring to that as is a transitional portion of this project that that translates between the paired town homes that are on Orange and are on Pleasant and then we have a single town home that transitions to single family houses that are behind us on both sides of the block and so we think that this is very very important and we showed this view very specifically um because of that um the other thing that um I want to so if we if we actually just go to the next slide I'll just read some metrics in and everyone can see basically how the conf has changed metrically and then I will you know uh continue with ours so so the the big change is now we have seven town houses as I said instead of eight um the average townhouse size is 25 22,500 121 square fet and that's important there was a question about why they are so big um it was very important to us and to um Janis and her staff about Universal Design and Ada principles and um making sure that all of these are ADA Compliant does take up another couple of hundred feet thereabouts um you can see that the lot coverage um and the building footprint coverage have decreased right and so the total coverage which is building Footprints Drive aisle impervious parking has gone down to 59.6% that's a 12.7% decrease um the proposed building Footprints and the drive aisle are down to 48.2 which is at 24.1% decrease and the building Footprints are at 28.8% of the site right so these are more in line with the R1 numbers um we are still proposing two and a half stories in 35 ft we have uh noticed for a a variance in the rear um which I will show uh and then you can see the number of tow houses we have and so we've omitted one there's now eight tow houses and they range in size from um 20 uh the largest the smallest one I'll start with is 2384 and that's townhouse 6 and the largest one is townhouse 1 at 2713 you meant seven Townes correct seven townhouses uh the number of parking spaces is 18 there are 14 spaces that are two for every townhouse and then four spaces for visitors including one public accessible Eda space if we go to the next slide our variances I think everyone knows our variances um we have a a kind of principal use variance which in my mind is the primary one um uh because these are uh two family attached dwellings we have um the setback variances that I went through in the last hearing those have not changed you see those on the site plan and we still have a um proposed building coverage variance which is um we've gotten it fairly close to that 25% that's required we're only 3.8% above uh which is which is important um if we continue moving please um the site comparison setback uh graphic you saw before we can move through that one uh to the site plan now the site plan is something that you've seen in our drawings this has certainly changed now the footprint of the building and the plan layouts of the building have more or less remained the third floor is reconfigured a little bit and I can talk about that but largely what you'll see is um this is oriented uh true north or near true north um you'll see that we have one curb cut now which is on Pleasant and it's in the rear of the site that curb cut allows for both Ingress and egress and has a little kind of dut Circle in the middle of the tow houses like we had last time where you come in and you come out right um the other uh the decision to actually put the single transitional townhouse which you see up above up top on to Ward uh was because if you actually look at um site maps and I can go back and show you one um you actually see that there are there's a slight increase in density of the tow hous is actually on pleasant as opposed to Ward and um if you look right next to ours graphically um for the space of um four houses on Ward there are actually five houses on um Pleasant so this is a kind of contextual decision that we made in terms of where to put the transitional townhouse uh and you see it here that setback has gotten very large uh to the left of that transitional townhouse and we do have the uh the parking there which uh is coded red for visitor parking as well as that Ada space that you see and again for the record we have 18 parking spaces proposed Mr Garber you believe that you have taken into account some of the uh concerns that you heard from the the residents on Ward place is that correct yes um so you eliminated the Ingress and egress from Ward but um can you further describe what the uh that buffer area will be sure it's a planted buffer area you see uh you know trees and green there now we will have F testimony from our civil engineer in terms of specific plantings but they will be um indigenous plants um you know uh that that we that we plan to do here okay and that Park the the the parking area that are in the um hot pink if you will um that will only U there there would be no access to W Place correct no access to work place and that's and there's a planted buffer so you won't even see cars when they're parked there those are also visitor spots so I'm not quite sure how often we will have cars there um we will have a traffic engineer who here now as well thank you um if we go to the next oh and the only thing that I also want to kind of mention here is um I actually just did a kind of estimate myself and so this we have this curb cut that's proposed on Pleasant uh there is no curb cut on the other side of pleasant for about 650 ft so that just is a kind of planted buffer that is cemetery and that's important um you know I think in justifying where we've uh where we've put that uh there is there is two-way traffic on Pleasant but where we've located it we can go to the next slide please so the next slide is our site plan and this is just a zoom in you see the setbacks that we have we have 24 feet 3 in from townhouse one which is the upper left uh at at our um at our Drive AIS and then um uh a total of 47 ft almost 50 ft feet of a setback on um wpl that was basically what we were talking about you see that transitional townhouse here which is the kind of Lone townhouse near that um setback sign which is 15 feet on Ward place we have a setback of 20 feet on orange we have a setback of uh 20 feet on Pleasant and then if I you know read kind of clockwise around um you see that we have um the least amount of density on Ward where we have a kind of one single townhouse facing it we have the most amount of density on orange which is a more Major Street with with more dense building and then we have two town houses facing the cemetery on Pleasant so we think that this is um uh an improvement to what we had after hearing um the board's concerns and Mr gar the you had said earlier looking at the zoning block um that the V the rear yard variant to stay the same but actually um you just testified that the rear yard now is 24.25 ft only at unit um the unit on the upper left correct oh that's correct yeah I right so so this I'm sorry it's 37.25 when formerly it was 24.2 right so so right now it's so on on the upper right it's a full 47 ft and that's what shown yeah and previously a variance was required now that's been eliminated on that particular side and the variance on the left side has been decreased substantially correct uh uh the variance on the left side is the decreased a little bit not not not as much decreased a little bit yes yes um and if we can go next I we can go very quickly through the floor plans I think the board has a kind of knowledge of the floor plans where we have a kind of Flex unit or office on the ground floor an ADA Bathroom um and then on the upper floors which you see here we have a combined living dining kitchen space with a bathroom and laundry and then two bedrooms Behind these are all three bedroom units and if we can go to the next plan please the upper unit um still the same concept where this is the on Suite with a walk-in closet and a um a a bathroom uh as well as a deck uh the only thing that's changed here is the size of those units have changed a little bit just because if you go to the next slide of the um the pitched roof that we have and so you see that that um Master the I shouldn't say that word the on Suite strike that please is uh 18 7 Deep by 12 feet wide which we think is nice and we do have a 15t step back set back in the unit itself I'll show that in the section which is on the next slide and we do have that planted buffer around the deck so that intent has stayed um if we go next you get a uh this is a um revised section so you actually see how the roof roof pitches are working we actually have a nice double Hey space still at that stair which we think is really great um next it's just a section cut the other way I guess it's a little slow it's just a section cut the other Way's a delay it's okay it's okay and while while that's while we're waiting for that I will just talk a little bit about the facades and I was I was very happy when we get to the facades which are next that we have um a kind of um roof jar that um that uh you know when you blur your eyes I was thinking oh wow we have a kind of up arrow on our on our buildings and what's really interesting is as I was driving around and looking at um some houses I found precedents in Montclair uh that I have some photos of um that are not in this PowerPoint actually but that um that do exactly the same thing and so this is a form that is um quite uh there are quite a number of friend residents in town that actually allow for this kind of Center Hall kind of um three or in this case two and a half story form that terminates at a fairly steep roof pitch with roof uh behind it now in terms of these materials we have um a kind of stone and you can see this in the slides a stone which is the um the fourth from left image uh uh is a a stone that's replaced the brick on the ground floor the first floor and then we have two types of Hardy panel we have a vertical Batten system and that is that kind of Center piece that I was just talking about which is in color dark gray and then we contrast that with a lighter color pearl gray with horizontally running SED and you can see that in terms of the line waiting we exaggerated the line waiting a little bit in these drawings to make sure that they are clear if we go next uh this continues around so this is the pleasant way elevation um that we started with and then when we go um next you'll see the ward Place elevation so this is that on the right is that transitional single town home that I spoke about if we go down one more you'll see the orange elevation and that is the most um next slide dense next slide please yes there we go yep and so this is the orange Road elevation where you see uh the the the two pairs uh that that exist here again same materials um you will note uh I'll show you in the accent metric and then if we go next you just see the rear of the units in the um in the uh next elevation drawing and that is uh just showing the garage entries and that um Road Loop um which we think makes sense and one of the things you can see here specifically on the right units this is a kind of 3D cut elevation um is that 15ft setback so before the roof pitches picks up and pitches um we have a 15ot setback that is there I think there's a use the pointer the guy asked for before um I can't actually point on to the screen see it doesn't it reflects but you could see it um does would anyone like me to come up and show that or you understand what I'm talking about good thank you Mr Garber do you agree um with m t's uh inclusion that it's three stories from the reader well so so the the initial Council that we received was that the third story would have to be 40% or less we are somewhere around that 40% um admittedly some are slightly over that one or two are slightly under that I think it's safe to to notice for that and just suggest it's a variance condition I do think that the form of these town houses are appropriate for the context um if we go next you'll actually see the um context uh elevations and uh when you blur your eyes um it's sometimes you know almost kind of hard to see our I mean you can obviously see where ours are but we are borrowing from the more traditional forms on all three sides of the project which we think is actually quite successful um you'll see that we're using white trim uh around uh most of the features on our buildings which is consistent with I think just about every structure that is uh included in here next slide Please Mr gar you took the neighbor wishes to Heart did you not I did we spoke quite a lot with the neighbors and we had a um we had as I said a meeting on uh June 12th I had some other um correspondents with a couple of neighbors here and there leading up to that June 12 meeting and um think that we've um reimagined this appropriately given their wishes uh enlarged exterior details are part of our drawing set those haven't changed but if you go to the next slide please um and this is our second to last slide um you see that we have uh the way that this is organized this is the axonometric looking uh sort of North and uh East and so you see more density on orange less density on Ward in the back and a kind of what I'll call a middle density on Pleasant that um faces uh the the cemetery um rosale Cemetery we are showing very low um gated fences in the front of the buildings right and so that is part of the Landscaping features and then we have a 6ot board- onboard fence that is not shown in this but it's shown in our elevations and noted uh that uh separates our site from the neighbor sites and a board on board vence is very appropriate for that use uh and I will end uh next slide with the uh rendering again which is from the corner of Ward and orange looking South I have no further questions M Mr M you have any questions um well first of all congratulations Qui thank you we hope you like it interesting design I think it does uh respond to a lot of the questions that people have public as well as the board itself I had a question about the U the unit that is on corner of orang and so that one is a little smaller so the the unit on the corner of orange and word if you want to put up slide uh 13 is the question it's that is townhouse uh 05 and the size of that unit is let me just get it so I can be specific here so you asked for w right the lower right hand corner yeah townhouse 5 and so that one is I go back to list townhouse 5 is uh 2494 sare feet oh six I'm sorry is 234 sare feet and if you remember that one uh and that will not be the affordable by the way um but that is the one that um when I was talking before about trying to make the U shape that because we have a tighter than 90 degree it it was we uh it was very difficult to get turning radius for parking in that one so that one has one exterior space in front of it and one of the other spaces is um how that would work and that exterior space would probably be the spaces in between the two right in the center of of orange so um the uh and it has a a smaller deck it does yeah yeah and that's also a function of the so the uh question I have was really relative to the parking for that one and that is um so you have the park that that parking space that is there is just a standard parking space is that correct uh as opposed to it's not an EV uh no so the way that the EV so so we are required by state law to have 10% of the parking as EB uh that's 1.8 spaces we are proposing that um all the other Town Homes basically get an EV so we're we're above the Baseline requirement by you know quite a lot that's I mean that's what I noted was was all the other units do have access to parking space and I wonder why you didn't just make that it's certainly easy enough we we would have no I don't to be honest with you I'm not quite sure that that level of detail was really kind of thought through it would be no problem to mount an exterior I mean I have an exterior charger for my part you know it would be no problem to mount an exterior charger on the side of that unit and provide and that's something that would be worked out with the um through the HOA as these are going these are condos basically yeah so that could absolutely be provided for and would be encouraged by the way we could modif we could I would like to absolutely encourage that I do have a question about uh in terms set of circumstance where some inage that c fire yeah and so the question is what kind of protection is built into this system so that if I don't know what CA yeah you know if it all said it would so um generally you think that there would be a um abuse that would trip if the youit got too hot that should happen and that's generally I'm not an electrician but I can tell you um just because I I happen to be a power owner for the last almost four years that um when you're charging in Clos spaces you should only run your charger at 50% and um that's very published um best practice uh I cannot tell you how many people do that or not but um you know typically they overheat when they're run at full passes yeah yeah obviously the concern is is you know how do we you know minimize the potention you know yeah I mean these will be constructed basically with um you know 2hour exterior walls for separation and so forth so there are building code uh requirements that will limit the spread of fire for sure that's what safety and Welfare these do um you know and and I think you bring up a concern that is a more General concern not one specifically about our prodject right I mean this is something that now as more of these um types of vehicles come online they're welcome in my opinion um you know these are things that we have to be kind of thinking about so can we go to the rendering that shows all of the the perspective or the axonometric well specifically looking for is the the rendering that has all of the The Terraces oh yeah so that would be slide um 25 please there go so what you've done is you have maintained the integrity of having all of that sort of recreational entertainment space contained within um this unit we'll just call it a unit as opposed to facing out to the major streets uh corre so there are front yards I'm don't know but I guess what I'm really getting at here is is that since you now now made Pleasant way the only access to the property and of course on the other side Pleasant way is Cemetery um and so we never know when there may be activity on left side in that Cemetery how old those plots are and how many much activity there might be but wouldn't really being concerned about some of these having you know party up there I understand your question so we've taken the opportunity to sculp the pitches to basically create a separation like a material buffer between those outdoor patios that every unit gets and any of the rights of way which would include the pleasant way in the cemetery and so that works for for the cemetery and it certain works for Orange Road and for w place but what about on the on the on this back side I think there you know there are houses on this on this back side here sure you're saying the side yeah just up here houses here right I mean they're private residences right so um what view will they have of people enjoying Le your time on their their paos I mean is there well they well they feel that this sort of encroaches upon their sense of privacy or no I don't I don't believe so and and the reason why is so first of all we know that we're on the left side 24 feet 3 in away and on the right side 47 ft away right so that's a substantial distance right the other thing is there's a board on board fence 6 feet tall and then there's planting um and particular L on um Ward there's this large lawn almost a landscaped area and then keep in mind that there will be um a buffer of a twoot plant box around the patios themselves and if privacy is really a concern of the board we can make sure that the planting is you know a little bit higher there but I I don't anticipate um I can't tell people how to use their spaces right it's not very what I what I do but um but I don't I don't think it's um I think primarily the setback that we've been able to achieve willay the majority of that concern yeah I mean I think it's I think it's it's important to know because I mean the the design that you've you come up with is unique for Monclair that's fair to say right um and and if if a design is successful it ends up you know ultimately you know somebody else will choose to repeat it I see right and so and so the you know the question you know how do we assure that you know when when there is a neighborhood like this will just construct that it doesn't ultimately end up violating the Integrity or the privacy of other neighbors and that's the sort of the question I'm raising and hopefully the assurance that we can that we can gain you're right of course I mean you know some people party harder so there there there's no 100% in terms of equation but you certainly want to minimize yeah I would say that that the distances are significant more significant that we've mve done and and you know certainly if you look at the fabric that is immediately to the north to the east of us um excuse me the west of us the houses are a lot closer together than the buffer that we're creating just by opening space and then you add in the board on board fence and the planting and so forth so I I feel comfortable that and and this finally just in terms of refu where where is that everybody is bringing it out to the street and so they'll all roll it out to Pleasant Pleasant way to everyone will roll it out to the point of collection of their property so I think that there will be I think that there will be pickup collection points on Pleasant on Orange and on W is this Municipal trash it is Municipal trash there was a concern last time I'm not sure if you were here last time but there was a concern last time of the the the trash truck driving into and and disturbing um some of the neighbors by being inside this lot and so one of the things that was dis discussed on May 1st when we were last here is just having individual pickup for each of the town houses which I think we concur to we um just one final just one final question that is I noticed theing that has been U part of the design is U will we have the assurance that the fencing will remain uniform throughout the property moving forward or would each homeowner have the freedom to it will be built as part of the overall design intent um I'm sure we can something to the HOA or we could the association there will be a standard that will have to be U that all owners will have to abide by um you know things as specific as um exterior signs you know signs in Windows and control it as much as as we reasonbly can sure and we agree yeah I'm I'm not familiar with uh with a lot of fencing in the neighborhood way so I don't know to the extent that F sort of is within or not within sort of the character of the neighborhood but I just would once again sort of lift that up as something to take a look at not to say that you shouldn't do fencing but whatever the fencing ultimately is if it's not sort of normative in the neighborhood then to make sure that whatever you design still compliments how people had chosen to present their properties within this larger I think that's agreeable for sure thank you mrfi um just a quick question on The Refuge uh do we the first plan we have that that cut through through WS of the truck come in and pick up garbage are we still having garbage being picked up in the back no okay there is no truck coming in just I mean just for our own sake maybe just think about where we want the garbage to go I can just see all three cans piled up in the front here and just kind of creating some sort of chaos so just maybe some thought about where we want to go with that I and for the record our our initial solution was to create a dedicated location where everyone took it and we heard that that wasn't going to be supported so were you saying everyone's responsible to take their trash to the curve just like any home owner any other just like any other home and we could Mr Cori regulate that by condominium documents as well that each owner has to be you know a certain area for their trash y just just think about it I mean just just like foresight down there I to see something that okay thank you so much um first I think you did a great job with the revisions and maintaining your artistic Vision so good job with that uh couple quick questions for unit five to that turned into parking space 11 is that possible seems extremely tight unit five into parking space 11 to be able to no no no no there's total turning yeah I see where you're doing yeah there's there's there's there's adequate turning radius so that is slide 13 so I think the question is whether or not this can be done and the answer is it can here right and we have a traffic engineer here who can certainly speak to that as well okay I'll revisit that one um trash answered and which is now the affordable unit um it will be uh either uh 04 or 05 yeah it's open to discussion also though which two which two 04 or 05 okay so eliminating that townhouse did not eliminate the affordable unit absolutely required and and and for the record the the what we were doing last time is if you remember the affordable unit was one was one of the constrained ones on the site we now have um if you look at this we have a general townhouse type which is 2 four five and uh seven is that right yeah 2 four five and seven it'll be one of those and I'm guessing it's probably going to be either four or five but we need to uh determine okay thank you thank you Mr chairman um I will second my the comments from my colleagues this is definitely an improved the time so um thank you um following up on on the previous comment about the affordable unit four or five are these any um the footprint compared to the other unit is because on the on the previous iteration it was the smallest unit affordable right now it's the standard the standard yeah um as far as the uh agback condensing units for each unit does that change no change except there's one less yeah Mr Church uh all questions I had have been asked and answer um questions do you know what the average setbacks are for the existing homes for and how what you're proposing Compares um yeah so I will not be able to give you exact but if you look at slide um six this actually shows the general uh conditions of the area and what you see is that we are at uh 15 ft the closest we are is on W Place 15 ft most of these houses are they range but some of them are less than 15 ft some of them go back about 16 or 17t but we're certainly consistent within the range particularly and while we're up here the only the other thing that I just to make sure that everyone is is uh understanding what I said the double unit here came from from the idea that within this space we have four units versus five units right and so when you add them together we basically have including R six in the row and six in the row right so we're trying to be contextual in the way we're kind of thinking about that as well unpleasant way they are and if you if you look at uh so if you remember number if you kind of see it's it's I have basically the same answer but if you look at our um our site plan drawing which is uh or the let's see which one is it the um I'm sorry slide 13 which is our proposed first floor plan drawing we have 20 feet proposed on Pleasant way and what's neat about that is we have a little bit more green space in the front and so not only are we creating some parody with the variation that happens sort of east of us but we also are K to what aing a very large green space in rosale right across the streets while we're on the slide what do you mean by public Ada space that space I would imagine that's only for residents or their guests it's for so so the way that ADA parking is is governed in the building code is there are numbers per parking space so there's X required for every y number of parking spaces we are required to have uh only one here and um what we've done is we've decided to make that a public or guest space as opposed to putting it inside one of the units if one of the UN if someone in the unit actually needs that space um we'd be able to work that out through D it's for res anyone would be a resident would be a and then this circular roow that you have in the back you like are there going to be curs at every driveway or NOP there's nothing so it's it's so this the way that this is coded and I think this is hopefully is clear in our plan the way you see it is this is Haven that's Fall's concrete pen these all around are pus PS so the perious papers while they still count for coverage they do perform in terms of some storm water management and so the idea is that this is all level there's no grade change you just drive off of the impervious paper to the perious paper into your driveway and how about like the non driveway area oh this is sorry so that's green space right there that it's a little right so there's a there's a kind of Little Green Island here where we have a condensing unit which was asked about we have two condensing units here in this Green Island a Green Island here with a condensing unit and two little green Islands right there parking between n I'm sorry four and five that's a GU spot or this is this is this would be dedicated to town because it's close right so we have two spaces dedicated to to six we have a standard here in a standard same for this this would be for townhouse 3 because if you see because of this weird kind of angle that we resolved this one which makes it a nicer larger unit it's difficult to get a second parking in here so that part and then the reasons for the um we we they're they're not really proposed we show them as part so that it's proof that we can achieve Universal design standards that we needed to have someone living down there be while so will you provide like utility connection they'll just be hookups just we've called that a flex room you know it could be a you know there's a number of different uses it could be an office it could be a guest room it be a living space a full living space is needed if there was a and then um I'm sure there's a landscape uh there's a civil engineer who will testify a little bit to and as I said we're just you know in general we're we're very cognizant of um using um indigenous species we did have an arborist come and look at the trees and help us uh in terms of what remained via the survey and and so forth um it turns out that a lot of the trees on the site were not indigenous species and and they going away if they haven't gone away already do you know the kind of the propos the re McDon will testify that our planner thank you um okay so I think the um the determination on um how to handle trash collection was um good because before it was um it was proposed in the corner um of the um lot and then um there were some concerns about um if they would may be like rodents so I think each individual um homeowner or townhouse owner taking their trash out is um is good um the total um building coverage decrease I thought was um an improvement um aesthetically I thought it was an improvement um the color scheme um I like the gray and um also just the the redesign and consideration for the um the context of the neighborhood um so I agree that it's an improvement as far as Aesthetics as far as the use of the space overall given the um climate of housing I think um it is what it is I think that there's definitely a housing crisis and every available space ideally you you would want to kind of um um um be part of that solution for especially in this town and just New Jersey in general um so I think though the there was a decrease it is a it is a um generous size um but there is an affordable unit and um yeah but that's the only thing I'll have to say is that it you know um that it's the um this for that for that this um big space um it accommodates a small amount of people with a huge like housing um need um the third story I'm a little puzzled by you're indicating some of them are complying and AR with the 40% and some of them are almost complying and I guess why are they not all complying you're close and which ones are and which ones aren't so so the standard that's a fine question I mean we we've decided uh basically because of the um we we think that it's important to have nice large bedroom up there we have a 15ot setback that we're maintaining on every unit and because there are some some units are larger than the than others um you know it just seemed logical we think that the the form is appropriate we acknowledge that um that third floor space may be a little bit bigger we feel strongly that the size of that bedroom up there is appropriate for a unit this size and so in consultation with our team and the owner uh we just we decided to notice for a variance that's not answering my question I understand the notice I do this and when in doubt you notice for a variance I but I'm trying to understand which units actually do require a variance or are you saying they are all conforming or if we imposed a condition we did not approve the variance for a third story what does that do to the project uh it would make the bedrooms smaller and part of the reason why I don't have an exact number for you and I think it's a very valid question question my bad is because we have roof pitches and so there we we haven't gone through and actually figured out habitable space under those roof pitches as a kind of silhouette I mean you could do that um but uh I do think that the size of the bedroom which as I said before is 187 by 128 is is a nice is a nice Siz bedroom for up there I mean if we we needed to uh if if if it if the thought of the board was that it should be smaller I'm sure we can consider accommodating that but I I do feel like units like this uh in terms of um similar townhous models uh have bedroom bathroom closet potential access to outdoor spes is what we have up here I'm I'm not saying because I don't have enough information to say what way or other but before I am going to vote for a variance on the story I want to know what it is and why it is and some of that maybe Mr McDon can pick up but I I don't I want to know how many units need the variance why the extent to which they need the variance and why they need the variance and was ultimately dealing with that so is clear what we're doing and not leaving it to the constructions the planning office and the constru instruction code official to figure out whether you're complying with what we approv Mr Sullivan wants that as resolution as well so that's we'll we'll come back with that Mr chairman thank you um the um related to this and um because I like being consistent from one application to the next and this is more for probably Mr MCD than you is how how do the size of these un compared to the size of the units in the neighborhood um and then further you know were asked um about this comparing the setbacks here to setbacks on Ward and pleasant way and I'm assuming Mr mcdna will address that in his testimony as to they consistent my I think last question for you is do you have um an elevate a West ele ation that shows what people I understand you'll have a six foot fence so shorter shorter people like the on the ground are not going to see over but you know looking from their houses what are what are they actually going to see when they look to the east um yeah okay so that would be putting a six foot fence on slide 22 so we can do that well it it's I I'm I'm trying I want do you have anything that shows the west elevation is I guess what I really ask we do it's slide 22 you're saying you're you're you're talking about looking into the donut looking from the houses on Ward and pleasant that are adjacent what they're going to see yeah right so if you go to slide that's it and except you have to imagine that there's a fence there we cut that elevation in front of the fence also too I think it's important to show the plantings as well as whatever you're planting them from their okay so I'm ass I'm assuming this is looking that what's on the left is what's on the bo Place side and what's on the right is on correct so we have no windows looking at the neighbors by the way right that's something I fail to say before and that was a design decision we face out and we really try to have glazing opening to the rights of way uh but we don't actually have any blazing that faces the neighbors directly behind us not sure if that's good or bad I normally I look out my windows in my house I see windows in the ad joining houses from a lighten air point of view these these units get funny so I I I would rather you know it sounded like there was some concern about well I I you know I think and I'm kind of encouraging the neighbors if they have views on this when they testify um what their issues are if they have no issues um I should also just say and if you you know refer to our plans those are spaces that are typically bathrooms there's a St over there you know we do have the dining room at the ends which could be opportunity for a window but a lot of the service spaces are pushed to those walls the service components I should say and the affordable housing you said I guess either units four or five SE is not sure if the board cares are ultimately you going to make a decision or is that for us to decide or I'd like to make it in consult a with our client our team and m t's office but we are you know we're goinging to take a suggestion Mr chairman the thought that we had just in general and as Mr Garber said well any unit that the board desires we could do um four and five Richard has called them standard they both have internal parking um it they're not and they're within the community whereas if you take Unit Seven I no I I questioning okay that I think those were wise units to choose between okay and at least at this point I don't have a view on that I don't know if other board members do I don't know if the public does but I okay then I lied this will be my last question sure the um on the five units that have the two garage spaces in the building I'm curious why only one one of them is labeled as an EV space when normally when people are putting in the charging equipment they put it between two spaces and are you really doing it so that arure will be for one space only or is it going to be set up so if they have two EV cars you know it's not adding a plus to you it's one so so machine so typically I you know and so I have a lot of insight on this as a as a long time EV driver a relatively longterm EV driver um so typically the home charging kits the um the cables are long enough that if you park two cars in a garage you could charge either one so um we don't necessarily mean to deed the EV charging device to that's been my observation in the world is that they're set up to charge two adjacent cars right so typically the way that it and when I testify on other boards we're typically asking show us the spaces that have the EV charging capability so spasis but in this case because this is a garage wherever it is it will have access to both cars so I mean I I think the plans are misleading that way I mean I if they both spaces in those five garages will have access through a single EV charging yes and it and yes you certainly make clear that you're putting in one device not two but right I you know I just it's a little puzzling your labeling at standard when clearly it could be chared um Point sorry sorry if I could follow so how would you like it how would you like us to write that I could with Mr Sullivan I think we got it yeah yeah I I I think this is that both units will have access to a Chargers we'll show the EV charger we state that both are standard size spaces with a note both unit both standard spaces will have access to to make clear we're not putting in two in each garage the one so what about unit six with the external parking so they're not required to have a e Des so the EV designation is by DCA 3% of the total number of parking right so we have 18 I mentioned this before we have 18 spaces we're required by DCA standards to put in 1.8 Chargers rounded to two we have um 7 six Target down actually and we talked about adding a s which would be against the outside of the building for townhouse so we'll find yeah you know it just I I I love the fact that this board is getting into that level of detail I mean I think it's great and and um it's certainly something that can be accommodated very SL without significantly changing anything but as far as you know it there got a building standard that build stru has to have be for every unit like if you decided not to put an EV station there the the requirement is they have to have two EV Chargers and site is what the law requir they're going above that right okay I think in terms of marketing that's probably a good idea are there members of the audience who have questions for this witness and again it's just question questions on his architectural testimony forward state your name again please name um I have a question you were talking about you saw the design of this design this new design in monair may I ask you where and was it a single family home or was it a unit like this it was a number of single family homes had a Center Hall orientation and that's what I was suggesting I don't have a specific address I'm going to have some photos but uh you know generally what I was interested in finding moments Broad in the context of this municipality that we could kind of refer to not copying but just as a as a reference to allow for some kind of compal response okay other thing I wanted to ask you um it still does not conform to our neighborhood in in my opinion but I wanted to ask you at what cost will these homes be compared to our house I noticed that my house is completely missing I live in a ranch very small ranch how high did you say they would be 35 ft yes that oh I'm sorry it's phone call sorry withner um I live in a ranch 35 ft above my house will be in my back where's your address 5 place you conveniently left it off of the um the site there when we show the initial I didn't see my house at all my house was a blank space you go to slide 23 please uh if we did I'm sure we will look at that and we can get it in there but this is a survey I believe of all the addresses around us well where am I I'm across the street so if you're across the street we don't we're showing this is an elevation of so typically the way that you present a kind of contextual drawing like this is you include um houses houses that are immed no houses that are immediately adjacent the same Second Street because that's how you Bas but you show houses that are on the other side of the street in the initial some of those homes are down the street you showed that in comparison to the size but I am one of the few ranch homes in my there are only four ranch homes okay 35 ft will DWF my home you will be in my backyard you will have full view into my PIV space did you think about that when you I did I did and um you know as this graphic clearly shows and I testify May first there is a diversity and I think that what we're trying to do is tap into kind of spirit of what we find significant and find a way to blend in a little bit more than we were well it does blend in slightly one of the Dig before but still not to the point where I feel living across the street from this be something I want to do one other question um you say that Pleasant has less density why did you not put more density on the pleasant side where there's less people live that's not what I said I said on if you go to slide six yeah all I was doing was counting a sample of houses that were within the 200 foot radius and um what I noted was that we have a kind of more tightly packed group of houses on um Bo than we do on Pleasant and so what we did was we equal as a as a way of determining as soon as we went down from 8 to seven we had an odd number means that someone had to be a kind of odd person out in terms of our grouping of pairs which I think works appropriately and what we decided is by looking at that density to put the single house on board right all that the transitional unit and the double houses on Pleasant because if you actually counted the number of dwelling units within that 200 foot radius based on that calculist you have six houses including ours on both sides of the street that's that's the mount next question that I have for you um the excess parking when you're talking three bedroom homes you're talking two parents two children possibly four cars and you only have a space for um two cars per each unit correct uh yes and and that's based on that's based on um the standards that we have adopted and I do feel and we will have a more specific we we have a very situation where a lot of the streets on the south end are very small we have a p c we can't even get out of our driveway with some this park directly across the street did you consider when people don't want to go to their parking spaces where are they going to park because many times people don't want to go to the parking space they want to park in front of their units there are four units on board we can't even get out without asking a neighbor to move to get out of our Drive telling you that we are and I feel like the parking right out here is adequately distributed with our site well you may feel that way but um we live there and it's it's pretty tight and small um when you were looking at sites did you consider any other sites like maybe the other side of town where there's been much less um density much less building go up on that side the last time something was built was Christopher court on CL they would never repeat that but this looks like Christopher cour to me did you consider any other besides besides this site this is an so I'm so I'm I was given a site and I said propos I appropriate okay I have one more question the garbage on garbage days on word close folks take the garbage out the wind blows is everywhere everyone's garage is all over the street you're saying that they're going to be bringing out their garbage cans on Wy nights and I I'm usually one of the few people who go out and pick up all the garbage that comes roll them down I do have an answer for that what we can do is we can specify the homeowner's agreement that we will have a closable blockable trash container that one wheeled out it won't becep that and will there be a super on this in this in this these are Co there won't be they're not so are there H fees and things like that beyond beyond my scope I believe there are yes okay so that's very confusing who is going to be there governing breakes things that don't work garbage on streets so the way that an ho a unit being assigned to someone to live there to take care of this property who will maintain this property so the HOA will have a management company that's typically how it works yes I understand we have a five family next to us and there's no one there no one manages these M can't but you will you will have someone living on the premises possibly no he said there would be a management company that generally um there's one of probably a handful of local management companies that manage properties like this well those of us who live near multif family homes and I have five family next to me and a couple down the street they don't manage them so I that the board possibly think about having someone maintain this property once you build it once it's been approved and all of that because personally as experience no one maintains Mr chairman we would agree if there's approval to have a uh that the condo association would have to have a um private Management Company Living run run the U run the associate run the association rather than do it internally we would agree to that well I own a co-op in in yunkers there is someone living on the pures two supers on the prises to take care of so that it's always maintained and thought for the Neighbors don't have to do it I just personally don't want to have to be going out picking up everybody else's garbage um also the condenser unit you say there like five of them no Spector will there be will they be running is this an air conditioning unit so they run run it's hot up yes they are extremely quiet impossible are my questions I one you keep saying there this recreational space are you aware that there's a beautiful park across the street with a running track playgrounds I think outdoor space though is is really important when when dealing with a site like this but yes of course and and I hope that folks that ultimately to take advantage of just one question about the recreational space it's not being programmed it's just Green Space right it's a in the front it's a lawn and in the rear it's a deck so there's no there's no there's no amenities any other members of the public who have questions for this witness Mr Scott we got at 23 Cedar avue as I mention property at 38200 which lived there for 38 years um you mentioned that the unit number six is a townold townhouse unit but it's actually a a single family home is that correct I said it's a so no that's not I said what I said was that the the strategy of the units if you remember this from the first hearing the units are paired so we have two Town Homes together but when we went from 8 to seven decrease the density seven is an odd number so we would have three pairs right one two three pairs and then one single in looking at the context and looking at the density from the graphic that's up on on the screen and so forth um and thinking about how circulation works we decided that the single unit would be on Ward and we'd have a double unit on and I understand your explanation but that unit on board place is basically a single family home they're all town homes by by definition that is a single family home because there's not another unit attached to it no cuz it could be a DE well it is a single family unit family home that may be your opinion but the way that this is defined in our development application and the way that we have defined based on your land the Land Development ordinance of the municipality is that this is a detached townhouse and there are three pairs of exes where there are two houses each is that unit does it have its own separate model no what else is connected to that if it's got side jards on each side Mr chairman if I could interject here it's a condominium form of ownership so the Condominium Association will own the roof will own the exterior will own the stairs Etc the unit owner will own the interior so it's not it's it's not a standalone ownable structure because the Condominium Association as I just said owns the exterior owns the roof Etc um so it's not it would not fall within the definition of a single family so the unit owner of that one unit that you're talking about they purchase that they own the interior of the unit and then they have a percentage share of the common elements so it doesn't matter if it's condominium form of ownership whether it's one unit or two units attached or three units attached or four units attached so the form of ownership is going to be a condominium form of ownership not that unit is not going to be a fe simple detached single family home now overall that's this is not a bad thing because I think one of the members said that this this type of development could bring a new style to Monclair from the development St even though it may be a part of a townhouse complex but it it gives you the flavor of that one unit could be considered in not technically but as a single family that's what you could have other developments that fall in this category right so I referred to that one as the transitional unit because it breaks from the p and convert and it transitions to the sing family homes that are directly to the now with that being said um there could have been another single unit on Pleasant which could have been a part of transitional phase from the single family houses on Pleasant into this development as well but you know you've got seven so you know we'll live with that at this point in time but there's there was a possibility because I think I made a request of not having eight units but having six units okay which you chose to do seven which you the developers so you have that option to do but that was also a request um that was made myself being a resident in that particular area and still would have met the inclusionary zoning ordinance that one set aside for affordable housing at that point as well I think I specifically made that Covenant um just just one other thing with the garbage situation bringing that amount of garbage to arm Road as a matter of fact on the corner of pleasant and orange R is a bus stop I'm not sure and also having a fence is there going to be a entrance and exit uh through those fence and areas to Brin the garbage through the Cur yes of course and the bus stop is actually on the other side of the street there's a bus on both sides right but there's not a bus stop on the corner of our side is there's a there's a bus stop on the corner of pleasant in and there's a bus stop on the other side of pleasant in Orange Bri the street right but not on our side in other words it's not here it's across the street some right okay okay but on in front of cemetery not in front of our site but the bus has some right but we're not but people are not queuing in line in front of our site they are across Pleasant okay right exactly right the affordable unit the affordable unit in in regards to the the way that the inclusionary Zone ORD this is written the for of unit has to be comp with Market un so there'll be some determination to make sure that is very close to the market units at this point if you find follow the guidelines in the io which how is going to help you do that you'll know which room not going to help us she's tell us ex give you the document you fin follow the rules and regulations thank you any is Rush so I guess my first question do you want me to say my whole name again and all Leonor Rush 15 work place okay so first question is did the um after the pr or the initial disc initial uh planning meeting um did the did you and the property owner discuss possibility of any other configuration other than the town home configuration was the uh single family model discussed at all no and part of the reason why is because subdividing this property with this odd shape would be very create a tremendous amount of nons and I guess it it would would non-conformance and would it also be less I don't know the economic game would be um and then you also mentioned that you had followup discussions with some of the neighbors uh just as just to or just uh from the point of organizing just make sure that people got notices there was no in June you said after the first meeting right so we did we did community meeting in think March we had a hearing May 1st we made changes based on the comments that we received by both this board and the public I can't remember if you were there or not but it was a long meeting and um and then we had a followup meeting on June 12 at 400 arms so within building do who did you notify we we notified Mr chairman just for the record I my Law Office notified every person that was uh by letter that was on the 200 foot list that we had used for formal notification I did not receive a notification you run the list I apologize for that but it was sent to all the neighbors it was asked to please tell your neighbors um that everyone was invited so I can you know for the record I did send that to everybody on the 200 foot list the same way you sent the first initial list certified mail because I no it wasn't certified because the the first thing was certified mail yes this June 12th meeting was just a general letter to everybody which I never received so if you had me for the for the in for the certified letter I should have been on this one as well you were definitely on it I was not because I would have received it you were on the list because I used the same list now I can't verify that you received it but I mean it was mailed and I can say with 100% no one is questioning whether I believe that you didn't get it but I believe it was never mailed to me because just like I I'm just saying but this is about questions right now Miss Sarah Miss Bush thank you I didn't rush Miss rush rush I'm sorry I am frustrated too thank you very much do you have other questions for the witness I acknowledge the um revisions that you've made um but I but but I I simply acknowledge them thank you thank you any other members of the public who have questions for this witness okay Mr Mero what what we're not obviously calling another witness who are your remaining Witnesses um I have um Mr Klein my traffic expert I have Mr McDonna the planner and we have ultimately the engine our engineer um I think I think Mr Klein we could hope if you don't want to call witness now I would say there is no Prospect of finishing before 1130 and that would I okay I mean that's I it's not in the real world okay you're ABS you've done this a long time um so I respect that sir okay so I guess the the question I have is when are you presenting the civil engineer because the and related to that is the report we have from the board's engineer is lengthy yes and is are is he planning to revise the plans to address those comments before well yes Mr chairman I I think um we have gotten a sense tonight that we're on the right track so um I think you know so yes we will be able to have our engineer now do the revisions and be prepared um hopefully to testify at at the next meeting if in fact um you know we get that far so we would aim to get the uh to get the revised engineering and and the um response to um to nea's memo ASAP um do you okay so between the civil engineer and the traffic engineer I don't care who goes right I'm assuming think it makes sense that they both testify before Mr mcdna usually that's what we would do um we had Mr McDonna standing by just in case we got that for tonight but usually he would hit clean up yes um the when do you think the engineering plans we are we are badly backlogged and I'm trying to figure out when to schedule you and I want to make sure it's a date that's going to work work and not push other people's off and then you say the plans aren't going to be ready wait okay can we take just about wait hold on know that's why you want go okay all right one second ch so I do this but we're not doing anything else I have urged several members of the new Council to build the two remaining alterate position so we have some flexibility of people coming not coming you know it's I know it's hard and things come up and whatever but most of the pending variances are be Maring since we need seven people here and the more flexibility to have the more people will feel comfortable of this you know my kids's doing this you know all the wonderful things that happen in people's lives our new assistant as you noticed is very good at chasing after you and you know but I think you know she doesn't have to chase if we have seven eight people have already said yes and so um but that's you know and hopefully they will do that soon um we have that so we now have two females I also pointed out that we well otherwise B balance we don't have a good boy girl mixer I don't know if those said members are more important you know total gender but you know it's different people have different perspectives and Mr chairman when um approximately 45 days from now would be uh probably realistic I think September 4th is probably realistic we have our engineer time to do that we went over Ed we did things but we also knew this was not going to be done that be great so uh members of the public this application will be continued until September 4th hopefully on the first floor but definitely in this building um meeting will start at 7:30 whether we have some single families like we did tonight we're you not that far along to know but a substantial part of the evening will be devoted to this application uh there will be no further notice so tell the people who were here who left that uh come back September 4th um do you give us an extension of time we certainly do Mr chairman that thank you and um you know and just for again for members of the public plans will be need to be here 10 days in advance of September 4th and they'll be posted on the website or you can come and planning office and look at them whatever works best for you um and just to finish up what say board we unfortunately will'll need to meet twice in August is part of the reason I'm hoping to get some additional because you know everyone loves August meetings and uh but uh and we will need the two September meetings and prob be backlog but hopefully we'll be close to being put up S anything else we need to do motion to adjourn motion to adjourn favor say I see you in a couple of weeks I will be than I will definitely be the one that never thank you thank you scared John drill left me his big black bag now I got to carry two of these things out didn't are I got involved nice to meet you but a condo can be a yes yes good to see you let's to see you how are you Jonathan was happier to see you than I he certainly was yeah yeah out here I think I had 80 obors to my application C it really yeah were you there what was what was because you guys rolled it together no we just happen to roll okay I have a storage facility I'm on I've had four hearings say it's G to take four more to get get Den well they told us to Lop a story off today pretty much so I don't know where's this it's on 46 okay which you would think that's a perfect location but it's the grve goes down and there's there's a there's a farm there and there's a bunch of residences and the resid had all worked up and you know they got signs and you know all that  tricky It's Tricky over there they have a good chair zoning board over there yeah he he he he's been in a bit now so it's good it was like Mayhem the first meeting but um yeah it's just going to take forever you know what the self story to it's I mean people object to them they're quiet there's