##VIDEO ID:2d_JuqFUEP0## to the United States of America and to theic which stands one nation under God indivisible Liberty Justice for All almighty God we ask you bless this governing body with an abundance of wisdom and understanding so that in fulfilling their public trust every deliberation will result in actions that will promote the common good and general welfare for all the people of our PL Amen to m of the governing body and burrow staff any use of electronic devices during this meeting shall be used only for the purpose of burrow business just before we do go any further I'd like to take a second just to congratulate the Mars Plains Presbyterian Church on Saturday and Sunday well this weekend I guess you can call it they'll be celebrating their 1050th anniversary great congratulations to them that congregation everybody involved with making that a parish over there approval of minutes yes I move that the minutes of conference executive and regular session from October 3rd 2024 be approved is there a second second all in favor I oppos abstain abstain the eyes have Joan abstains approval of I'm sorry before we get going any further uh Mr bro councilman bro is not with us tonight he's out away on business approval of percent agenda Miss Berg s uh reports from September of 2024 sanitarium Municipal Court Police Department building inspector Animal Control animal licensing bur clerk an Treasurer and tax collector resolution 20241 149 entitled settlement on appeal from assessment Juliano Denise trustee versus moris Plains Barrow block 72 lot 42-49 Dogwood Road rear docket number 8276 d222 Mars County our file number 11677 the burough Council approved Chief Koski to use his burrow issued police department vehicle out of state from October 18th to October 22nd while attending the International Association of chiefs of police conference in Boston Mass bur Council authorized the release and return of engineering review and inspection fees in the amount of $ 48170 to Louis K Cay 62 Maple Avenue Mars Plains New Jersey for Road opening 10001 for the burough Engineers correspondence dated September 3rd 2024 Shane Kelly 233 M partis Road Mars Plains be hired as a probationary laborer for the Department of Public Works at an hourly rate of $219 91 effective October 15th 2024 Alexander holover one force Drive Morris PL be hired as a probationary laborer for the Department of Public Works at an hourly rate of 2191 effective November 1st 2024 having received quotes to install electrical outlets at the corner of malap partis Road and Littleton Road from the following heran electric $3,900 Mike Spagnola electrical contractor 4200 Esposito Electric noot that a purchase order be issued to heran Electric 9 clean Place Mars Plains New Jersey in the amount of $3,900 the highlighted program instructor attached be hired for the fall 2024 Mars Plaines Recreation program at the position rate and date stated having received quotes to excavate a dri driveway in Road for sewer repair and patch asphalt driveway in street at 36 Central Avenue from the following Webster plumbing and heating 11,200 Harington Construction ,150 Bri Brothers paving no quote let a purchase order be issued to Webster Plumbing Heating PO Box 529 Brookside New Jersey in the amount of 11,200 the burough clerk published the proper notice of a special meeting of the mayor and burough Council to be held Thursday November 14th 2024 from 6:00 to 7:30 P.M to enter into executive session to discuss matters relevant to attorney client privilege regarding the Burrow's affordable housing obligations Michael Johnson be appointed temporary acting subcode Plumbing official in the absence of James gon rosi effective October 31st 20124 the mayor and burrow Council be authorized to submit requests for proposals for animal control services having solicited public bids for contract number b224 solid waste collection transportation and Disposal Services and designated recyclable materials collection and transportation services that a contract be awarded to the responsible and responsive bidder Suburban Disposal Inc for option number one a 5year contract commencing on January 1 2025 through December 31st 2029 for the prices set forth in its bid proposal and the mayor and clerk are authorized to execute the contract this contract is awarded awarded through a fair and open process pursuant to njsa 19 colum 44 a-204 and is subject to and contingent upon the availability and appropriation annually of sufficient funds as may be required to meet the extended obligation for succeeding contract years uh is there a second second second by Dennis roll call please miss berer yes Mr CZ yes Miss G yes Miss Kelly yes Mr Wagner yes I'd like to welcome everybody here tonight thank you for coming out and uh this Landy way in the back back there how are you f thank you did you hear the one the one thing on the consent calendar here about electric outlets at the corner of M part yes that's very good Christ I I saw brought a smile to your face that's your Park they cut down a big tree there today oh they did yeah Greenwood was there took down a giant tree and uh I think that guy the neighbor that was giving you the electricity will probably be happy that we have our own he will be so will you I guess thank you thank you for keeping o night uh right now I'd like to invite any members of the public who wish to speak to come up state your name and address and your C hello Bill Houston Eber Road um just a quick question about the affordable housing I know you you spoke about it I know you guys have a meeting on the 14th um was mayor car you put in uh the plane stock um a little blur that did a great job of explaining it um I was just curious if you were going to do any more of that to kind of explain to people the process yeah as works when the time comes and we have all our numbers and it's appropriate to update the public everything is too fluid right now to do that but sometime after probably okay is there is there anything that could be done to just explain the process not the not the details you guys still have to talk about that but just the process so the public understands hey like we have to go to executive session because this is what we need to talk about and these are the steps of the process well that executive session just it came about as part of the a strategy moving forward so that's why it has to be an executive session some of those things are attorney Cent privilege that that nobody needs to know about and the council will have to make decisions on later so that's why that that's done in exective session when the time is appropriate those backs and all that information brought okay yeah again just just wondering like because most people don't understand what's going on with portal hous right so putting it in very layman terms about this is we have to do this and then we do this and then we do this right just very me we can try to put that out there but to try to explain that on in a little blurb or five minute conversation is nearly impossible to do we have certain dates that I can put on the website I guess or whatever that we that we're statuto statutorily um required to meet sure if the state doesn't change those dates a lot of those dates are impossible dates I don't even think the state can make make some of their own dates so you know things have already changed already and for me to put information out there and then have to either retract that or follow it up with a different number or a different date or anything like that uh is is going to be very difficult at this time and probably become more problematic moving forward for res and and everybody else involved yeah okay I again I I appreciate what you all have to go through I think it just my personal opinion is I think it would be helpful just for the residents just to understand an overall of what's happening I appreciate that give you I'll give you something in 30 seconds it's this unfunded State mandate that that they're jamming down throw put housing nobody's against affordable housing what they're against is where they're putting it how they're putting it and how many units are required everywhere they're taking our resources you heard part of the meeting before they're taking resources they're putting the burden on other municipalities for other neighboring municipalities of responsibility it's it's it's it's a disaster what the state has done and and and in the middle of the night they did that to and I and I appreciate the position in the time FRS that you're under um I I think you were discussing earlier about the um uh there that that other municipalities are doing right together to and you guys were discussing that earlier to see if you want to be a part of that or not no decision has been made from what I understand but it's a discussion um so yeah again in this two-minute conversation I've learned a lot but I think it would be great if there's if there's some other way to get that out the when the time is when the time is right that that'll happen we don't hide information here and just want to make sure it's correct and accurate and not have to retract and go backward change stuff all right thank you this this may be done it but I prepared this so I'm G to say it okay4 Road um these comments are from the Department of Community Affairs regarding that legislation a quote from Governor Murphy one of our administration's top priorities has been to establish New Jersey as a national leader in expanding affordable housing a quote from Senator pres uh Senate President nicholasi says this initiative will allow us to develop additional affordable housing in New Jersey and make the system more workable my question is what's the system assemblyman Ivon Lopez says a house is much more than four walls and a roof it's a place where Cherish memories are made an asset that creates generational wealth and a structure upon which a great quality of life can be built and the only construction I see is high density housing apartments I don't see any houses um these are just a few comments by the officials who arly support this legislation and the legislation pushes for construction starting like you said with the compliance period that begins in 2025 affordability is the objective we know what has already been forced upon LS planes with a ruling by a judge for that Route 53 housing construction and I'm sure other projects around town American road nowhere in the comments on this legislation is there a concern for the draw on the town's water supply or electrical Grid in a state where sustainable energy is also a top priority I don't see any solar panels on on these large high density buildings no concern for the overburdening of our schools hospitals and Medical Services especially our Medical Services can't get an appointment with a doctor there's no concern for the impact on Town services and Roads and the increase traffic my objection or concern like yours is not affordable housing it's the oppressive short-sided dictates of the state are they solving a problem or are they creating problems these legislators don't live in our small town and they don't have a care how it affects our residents in our way of life and as you probably are aware local leaders for responsible planning initially flowed the lawsuit against the state regarding this legislation the original plaintiffs you probably know are Montville Denville Flor Park Hillsdale Mannington Milburn Montville Al pen and TOA and recently 12 additional municipalities Allendale Westwood Hanover wof Wharton mendum ordell cler West Amwell Washington in Bergen County Norwood and py Troy Hills so my question to the council is and apparently this is already been considered have you or are you considering joining this law suit I believe it would be in the best interest of mar PLS to do so so there is a lot of uh discussion about about this lawsuit joining not joining that sort of thing um the council has the information on it I've invited the Montville mayor to come one time to discuss it with the council there was a conflict so we could not make it um I intend if the council wishes uh to have him here and discuss that the lawsuit they've hired a a firm out of New York City that that does this and there are pros and cons to that lawsuit right and sure and it's money and I get that yeah so initially you know it's $110,000 a year for for municipality um so I don't know I think their contract was over a million dollars this this attorney the law firm something along those lines and um so you know in two years it' be $20,000 and it's something that the council really has to think about and consider or not whichever and if they win or lose I think everybody will the same outcome right so if they win everybody reach those benefits and if they lose the same thing happens so there are pros and cons to it and it's not an easy decision I think we we had a pretty hard decision I think year earlier about you know Supply water in the Harding you weren't here but we talked about it I heard about that yeah I mean it's ridiculous what 3 unit 300 units we have our own four municipalities that are involved with the Water Authority that we have to really look out for our res here and that's one step I think um I don't know of any other municipalities that may be get Su because I I I feel we will get sueded if we don't survive with the water and but that's okay and um will to fight that will we win maybe not but at least you have to stand up what's right here this is high density housing that they're putting down jaming down our throats without we were talking about before without taking into any environmental aspects this traffic people complain about traffic you know it's not certain things that are going in towns look at around you you got thousands of units around you that's what's bringing the traffic around here nothing else there's traffic now there's been traffic here you know since I 50 years ago you sit on hand now it's worse and there's no more real estate for this stuff no it's it's it's the whole thing is ridiculous and unfortunately you know they made a they made a law and and you got to V you know what the ones that voted for that Republicans and Democrats I don't have any respect for the ones that V for because you can't C launch and just cover everything the whole state with one stupid law that that really burdens like you said our schools our services our police everything everything where does it end and they don't they don't have a car they don't look at it like when this judge say yeah sure build 500 units come here and and and sit in traffic we were in court for eight years over this you know that look what they turned behind your house in the residential what was that forever yeah commercial did they take that into consideration what was there before they had to clean that up to put homes over there I mean does that make any sense nothing makes sense all right well thank you for listening you all right the same p hello Carolyn Bennett from 19 Dayton I heard an uh oh no go ahead okay um in the spirit of stand up for what's right I think I quoted you correctly I just want to talk about a few issues SL questions for you guys um I'll start off with pedestrian safety so coming up lots of kids walking around my own kids are outside all the time I'm wondering what the town can do for us in terms of the piles of bagged up dog poop all around the vacant lot at the end of my road because it's not only a health hazard it's disgusting um and it's surprising to me because it's around the corner from here and I I see a lot of town cars driving by and we would be silly to think that no has seen it um so I just want to know what can the town do to clean that up so first of all um I asked the DPW to install this is not recently a little while ago extra garbage cans along there because there were none and I will have them take care of that that problem okay and my concern which I'm sure is not a surprise is if there's already a huge letter problem in an abandoned lot I don't see how bring more people to that LW is going to help especially if they are physically given stuff that they'll need to throw away there are no garbage cans there now I think they're just a a bin with maybe cement or something and then there's like a bag over it but I don't think there are garbage that's not garbage I'm talking about the cans line speed Avenue we extended those down there by that those sections of 202 that that are down there we added those probably year maybe a little longer probably somebody on your street the same thing that's when we added we don't maintain somebody's private lot there's stuff there we can certainly reach out to the owner of the lot and take care of that or Z offic out particular let theer make Z off probably okay yeah that would be helpful because I know the garbage does also extend down the street I have pictures I'm happy to give them to whoever um in the spirit of pedestrian safety so like you say traffic is a a problem I know it's on everyone's mind as well so sidewalks are important to me as a mom that walks through town so I'm hoping you guys can shed some light on any ordinances or honestly just like rules of what residents are required to do in terms of maintaining their sidewalk I have twins so I use a stroller I can't push it there's not one road where I don't have an issue so I can give certain addresses but I always have to either go into the road or go on someone's grass and hope they don't yell at me because there's a lot of brush that is overgrown I'm concerned because this was as of last week I know it's getting cold people aren't outside brush pickup's ending so I don't see that being something that people will be on top of over the winter um my hope is not to stay inside over the winter so I will still be walking and I I'm just hoping to learn a little bit more about sidewalk safety so sidewalk just the repair of the sidewalk is really on the homeowner um if we do get complaints and something is very bad the barel does sometimes maintain sidewalks and replace those at times we don't do any private property maintenance as far as bushes or any of that stuff and the ppw does go around uh whatever weeks probably two weeks right the first the end of the week or the end of month and the first week of a month and does pick up all the brush in town that may take a couple days or up to two weeks to do all town but that's Tak what else I guess I'm not following what you said first that it's on the homeowners to you don't maintain the sidewalk are you talking about for example if they have tree limbs or overgrown grass or like it's it's everything I think there's two issues like the sidewalks them El are bumpy as ever because I know the trees have to be planted on the curb so the roots are growing under the sidewalks which is pushing the sidewalks out outside the library it's really bad so it's like just being able to push a stroller is one issue but I'm not even trying to get there I'm on the crawl stage in terms of just having someone's Bush overgrown into the sidewalk and then I can't push my kids through a thorn bush or through Twigs so I have to go into the road where there's already a lot of traffic and it's just a hazard so it's on the homeowner then do that so what do I do I file a complaint for every address if you could either call the clerk's office or call the zoning office building department we have a zoning officer that does Property Maintenance and if there's anything that to be fixed or maintained by a property owner you will get that uh message to the resident okay no that's helpful to know I wasn't aware of that um and then I also know the crosswalk situation is an ongoing problem that is the crosswalk we use because it's the end of my street the one that I'm talking about is in front of the empt friendlies lot so outside of anything going on right now application wise whatever I guess I'm just interested to know because I've heard Mick's messages that we can fix the crosswalk we don't have the money we have to go to the department the do and it's a losing battle there but I just can't wrap my head around on what the town is trying to do to fix that problem the orange flags are not working cops sit there and I see them watch me almost get hit and they don't pull out of burrow school to go over and pull those people over I don't know if they're just ignoring it if they don't see it so okay so just a couple initiatives that the town has already taken on before this ever started over here yeah and I don't know what you mean by repair the crosswalks but um probably two years ago or so I I had a conversation with the chief maybe two years right maybe longer I don't know whatever a while ago and had a conversation with the chief I said we have to do something about these crosswalks over here what can we do I'll look into it Chief came back and said you know what I found a class that I I can send an officer to to be trained uh on crosswalk enforcement we did that we have now crosswalk enforcement One officer or two two certified officers two certified officers for crosswalk enforcement we started Chief started the crosswalker enforcement he's been over here at least twice uh tce in the last two months twice in the last two months and then he's been out here on Mountain Way in granis as well um how many hours Chief 8 hours officer hours no just the time period the details were 4 hours in length but we're probably in excess of 25 hours between the five officers for each detail which the officers have just been trained on the other thing that we've done as we applied and received the Grant from the state the do I'm putting the sign the blinking yellow signs um the flashing yellow lights for the crosswalk signs on both of those crosswalks we received the grant Mike has been trying to get updates on when we're going to get them physically here and I don't think he's had any success doing that it's in the process unless you know something I email do biweekly and I get keep getting told it's in process with them the bureaucratic red tape of the magical land of do which is okay that process probably started a year or a year and a half ago just getting the the the blinking light SI as you enter the crosswalk you have to hit you hit the actuation button and it w't similar to what's out on Mount no that that's great to hear and iate everyone's we've also done another uh blinking lights on Franklin on Mountain Way Franklin new crosswalk um I believe DPW has them if they're not installed already they will be installed very shortly so that you know that's an effort that we've done so I think the bur has taken certainly taken steps to do and enforce cross that's something that we haven't done ever as long as you know I know they they do crosswalk tickets but the actual enforcement having people certified and stuff the two officers that are certified actually act as decoys across the road and when the offers don't stop there's offer stage down the road and they stop those individuals I didn't bring the details up with me but we're probably north of 50 summonses for U failure to yield the pedestrians in the last month and a half or two I think these are all good things so it sounds like we are making advancements on the crosswalks regardless of any application in process it started way before we got any applications or anything um am I allowed to address questions to you learning procedure um can you inl can you explain a little bit more about if I have like license plates of people that are going through the crosswalks because I have an whole album on my phone and I take the videos because I'm with my husband so I can safely do that does that mean anything or that's just wasted storage on my phone like can I give that to the police so you can provide it for us to document however any motor vehicle violation in the state has to be witnessed by an officer uh presently witnessed um so you can certainly use that to um generate a report and then you can sign complaints with Municipal Court yourself that however requires you to come to court and testify and some people at least in in my experience find it's not uh uh a benefit to their time to do that because they spend time again like an officer swearing on the Bible and testifying and so it is time very time consuming and you have to be able identify the officer or the uh you know the perpetrator of the event so it's it's difficult um I feel like a lot of B diffult but I'm willing to fight for certainly we're in battle so I I've already made your notes and uh we'll certainly increase the enforcement with the Staffing levels that we have when we can and um you feel free to you know reach out to my offices there's a specific time of day that you're walking or that you notice um there's a a time frame that you know you see more of an increased problem I'll leave you my card when you're done um call me email me we'll we'll set something up sounds good and then just to follow up on the great news that it sounds like we can get flashing lights there if you are not hearing back from them like how can you escalate that because my fear as I'm learning this on the spot is the more we delay that not you but the more that's delayed maybe other talk of crosswalk enhancements around town it like the timing is seeming oddly coincidental so like is there a way we can really drive like we're going to fix this regardless of other noise happening so two things that have happened um in to get the project pushed a little along when we had our initial delay the mayor and I Enlisted the help of uh Senator bua who's very law enforcement friendly in the state and Public Safety friendly um so I'll be emailing him again if I don't get a response um within the next week or so um to enlist his help in pushing dot a little harder and faster um and then the frustration of myself uh I've looked at actually another option I'm working with and I haven't shared this with Public Safety yet but the time like the present um I'm working with Motorola Solutions they have a new technology AI interface to Pilot a program here that identifies um uh the facial recognition of of you know not specific faces but you know a human figure approaching the crosswalk and it will actually uh illuminate a spotlight over the intersection and then record uh data you so we can identify some violations and things of that nature um theoretically I need do approval to move forward with that but I'm I'm willing to beg for forgiveness and you know just move forward with the project and mount it on one of our local telephon PS or what have you so it's something else that's in the works for just piloting that program in the burrow so um definitely on my mind one of the things that are top of my mind actually so in the works than you some of the really since this couple of years now or however long it's been is to try to upgrade the other crosswalks in town the signs one sign is about $6,000 and if we do it and our road work it's about $30,000 I do remember you told me these numbers when we moved in you actually came on my porch and you you quoted these numbers you're the one who who spurred the interest about the crosswalk that's right see I told you this battle's close to heart for me how long ago was that um two three years like two and a half years yeah so that's actually when it started I I spoke to the chief after that I don't back down um I do want to take what you what you say no I know and I do want bring it to fruition I want to thank you and the force because I did have to file a case I don't have the number in front of me I said it at the community center um a truck went over the clearly not Road area of Behind The Provident Bank and I don't know if he was out to hit me and my kids and my neighbor on his scooter but your officers responded very quickly and now I see the big boulders there so I see like we can make change happen and I think that's really reassuring um so I thank you guys for listening and and you have to be patient I know it's hard but deal with all this stuff and agencies is difficult yeah no I I know we're the chief has been persistent um we're persistent we're proactive in doing this like I said this is way before any of this other stuff came about or happened or anything so my takeaway is that we can make this the The Pedestrian safety a priority it is a priority but we can continue being a priority without any other businesses putting their name on it just one other thing I do want to bring up is at our health fair um The Avenues in motion was there okay which used to be trans options I I connected with the woman there I spoke with the chief earlier in the week to try to get the the relationship with trans options who does all those crossw walks and bicycle safety and walking all those kind of things uh back into the bur we had an extensive um they walked the entire walkability study they walked the entire town no not the entire the areas around the school from the last one it was um I think it was from the municipal building around down Franklin Place out around Franklin down M grants you know both schools and then they identify issues a crack sidewalk a sign too low a branch whatever simar to what you were talking about yeah and we you know we take those recommendations and over a period of time those those are done that's why I want to do that again okay um and then this is my last I think it's more of a question it's a procedural question because I am starting to get a lot more involved with this type of setting than I thought I would be but if somebody or you can also point me to a resource I'm happy to read can kind of just explain to me the process because I know there's an upcoming election of how do members of the council find themselves on zoning boards planning boards because I just don't know the ins and outs once I members of the council or members of the public I guess that's something to clarify like how do you find yourself on the zoning board so those are some of them are mayor's appointments some of them are appointments by the mayor um okay or voted on by the council um the Committees are voted on by the council the mayor puts it together and then the council votes on the different committees and positions so some are different than than others but that's the both of them are like that the both of them are appointed by the mayor appointed by mayor and then by the counil okay I think that answers it but it's just quick walk for me to get here so if I think of any others I'll be at the next meeting for sure to dict it is yeah to let your voice be heard that's my office number rather than the general oh great yeah I stood outside on the on the black phone for quite some time the other day but I will use this thank you anybody else here Road um just quickly I believe in being proactive instead of reactive and in a perfect world or in my perfect world McDonald's wouldn't go through but if it does and things don't go as smoothly as they promise what is the recourse like what are recourses the town if there's like overflow of traffic into speed well the noise the odor the trash the right hand turn onto Dayton Road I just want to know the process so you know it's hard to talk about something that's uh still going through the process Jo no I understand it may or may not just will if it does get approved and similar things in town happen there's always developers agreements that the the property owner or the business or whatever it is has to adhere to um I'm sure that there will be conditions U if this is approved if it goes through that will address some of those concerns I can't I can't be 100% certain of all of them that you may be concerned about but I'm sure that that will be there are performance standards that they have to ad to uh recommendations from the planning board that will probably be incorporated in it if if it gets approved right but I understand but if they don't like is it just like a small thine or like I don't know because I don't know towns it's speculating right it's speculating if the light is too bright right it's speculating if this right we could speculate that everything goes smoothly too which you know if it does go through I hope it is smoothly but I'm just I'm concerned for the extra work for the police we have zoning board that that addresses the the zoning officer that addresses issues we have police that address issues we have Board of Health that will address issues there's a lot of agencies in town that could address various issues but when you mean address like it's do they get scolded do I don't know what they did wrong I'm just I'm just I'm not trying to like I can't answer a question if everything is just let's okay for other businesses for example with the Board of Health if there's something where there's rodents or things that are not safe within the building they they County we work with the county they go and inspect it and those are reported at every month at our monthly meetings with the Board of Health when they do any of those inspections so yes there are fines for things like that they are brought up in public they are spoken to by our County enforcement and they are dealt with um and I think you know the zoning officer for example the vacant property at acne like I've called him like three times when I drive by and the weeds are high and then he goes and speaks to the property owner and they immediately go and mow those Lawns I mean they should be doing it on a regular basis I me if there's something wrong and and they don't do it there is other things that they can do right we can have just uses as an example if the grass is high and he refuses some property owner refuses to do something we can have our road department go there and then we back charge them lean on the pro so there's there's enforcement just about everything there's enforcement but like I I I feel like it shouldn't have to be a resident always complaining about something I I feel like the the property owners be it a residential property owner or a business to take responsibility well you're 100% right and I'm living next to a property that's not taking responsibility if that was a perfect world we wouldn't need the Board of Health we wouldn't need the zoning officer we wouldn't need anything we wouldn't have a resident that came here and talked about trees or any of that other kind of stuff right nobody here sees everything so but this is a property I'm talking about the property I live next to and she addressed and maybe it was misunderstood um but there is garbage all over that property dog little dog bags with um it's a shame that people and I've been documenting it she has for months I have at least 30 40 pictures of it did you that's my problem I'm not it's it's right on the main road and and thank you you know they did replace the fence but I don't know if you've taken that turn the the time to go around the corner cor the old fence is sitting in the property right underneath my living room window like so it's like they went to the extent to fix the fence after four years of it falling in my yard and I had to complain they weren't being you know proactive in their in their sense and it was fixed except they left their garbage that was in July and I have pictures of that sitting there I mean something like that and we can certainly take of Jill but I tell everybody who either calls me or somebody lot of the CLS come into the the clerk's office thank you for telling us because nobody here sees everything all the time and I understand I don't expect people to see everything but this is kind of a high profileour I encourage people to call if there's a problem I really do not that saying we won't take care of that we'll take care of that over there we have a meeting Monday I'll tell them either tomorrow or Monday in person make sure that gets cleaned up and picked up but we shouldn't have to be telling these people that that's my that's my issue and I don't want everybody to like when they see me com into a meeting like oh here she goes again you know I I'm not that type of person I've I've never been a person that complains and I I I fully and I totally understand I totally it just this is a very high-profile situation going on and yet I I feel like some a lot of decision makers and I'm not saying anybody you know like it's not all but I just feel like they're not even taking the time to go and look at the property in question and I know you you're not voting on it you know this is not a council thing I just I just wish that they would take the time to do a little research and look at properties regardless of acne friendlies or any other up up and cominging thing take the time to walk around and see what they're making decisions on and that's that's all I'm asking you know can I make a request chill because I'm the Le onto the Board of Health and I know in another section of town now were're having some issues with rodents and the Board of Health position was we're not getting any calls so the problem must be solved so if you could please call the health officer uh if if you don't if you don't find it on the bar website look my phone number up and I'll get it to you it's on the website because they need to know garbage that's overflowing is a is a health so that needs to be addressed by the health officer as well ex exactly don't mind I just you know I just felt that anybody that is on the decision making or took the time it's right there everybody can see it I mean we pass by it every day because we live there but just please you know ask the people that make decision for the town to just take 5 minutes out of their de and go look at the property that's it hopefully whatever goes there in the future it will make 100% difference there this one's not very optimistic that but thank you one thing I would just share is that don't ever think of yourself as a complainer if you see something it because the thir office will act on it right away get the gpw over there they'll call the board to help whatever the case may be but they receive calls like that all the time like I said I encourage everybody to call you see something that's out of place I try to avoid it but it's just getting to that point we don't want it to get to that point you can't avoid it the minute you think you're going to take a picture just make the phone call and it will be cleaned up pict help though but we do need the people to be our eyes sometimes thank you okay thank thank you for all listening anybody else just quick Andrew wolf 44 Par Drive um and you may have tell this before I got here from my client meeting tonight I noticed the last session Nancy asked about doing a presentation on affordable housing I saw that it made um the agenda for next when's the public going to hear more about what's going we did talk about that and probably sometime after the first of the year we don't even know our numbers what we're responsible for we're supposed to find that out sometime in October um we'll see whether that happens or not and we have to get our ducks in line first like I said before can't put stuff out there with numbers or time frames or anything like that and then change it I have to know a little bit more of what's going on and what path we're going down before any of that I'm not even looking numbers I'm like what's it say what's it mean to the buau you know tell you right now just preliminary what we were given when this bill got sprung on us we're going to be responsible for between 111 and 127 units of affordable housing okay times that by five it's going to be roughly what was put in here about 650 units if we don't do anything that's what the state's telling us that's about what our number is we're come trying to get that number lower and looking at different options of how to get that number lower and that's where we're at now we have to assess property vacant property Parks I mean they take every square inch of this town and say that you could put a condo or a house or something or uh high density units on every square inch that they don't see something on right now they can use the active property they can use the bacon friendly property that has to be all taken into consideration so any of those Bing properties are all taken into consideration so we are trying to get everything in line to get those numbers that's exactly I I will come back to the crosswalk Go Chief I mean twice last week stopped for someone in the crosswalk somebody passed me over the yellow line to go around I mean it it is pretty ridiculous again my issue with our flags is they're great for the first car in line but when the second you know car behind them can't see a pedestrian or whether they're doing it intentionally um you know I will talk further with our staff have it attended to we've already been doing you know great strides and attending to some of those things um some of it is related to our staffing concerns that have expressed Public Safety and you know we're continuing on with those conversations you know how mum is known for you don't want to speed and M them it'd be great for Mor Plains to be known as don't you dare reach that crosswalker you're going to pay for it agreed uh just one other thing that I was thinking about while we were talking and car brought it up before was Mike also did receive a grant for crosswalk safety to pay the overtime and whatnot also I don't know whether we received that what we've been doing I believe is all on us right now one detail was on us the second one was fun from from uh triaa um and we're going to reapply for another funding so we can increase CU you know like I said sometime our staffing levels are two officers on the road we're trying to increase that where we add staff to overtime details to address you know the various traffic complaints throughout town so um the mayor and Council were supportive of us two years ago adding an additional officer for the traffic officer position so Monday through Friday 7 and3 we have somebody strictly dedicated to traffic um we're trying to do what we can with the staff that we have available so we'll continue to address your concerns thank you app was it a sales picture M and thank you deal Chief when I'm in when I drive down to Virginia to visit my son my husband down sometimes he gets these magical tickets in the mail from a camera somewhere somewhere on the highway is that like something that you can't do it is il legal we've had red light cameras in the state and that just doesn't work and the speeding cameras in other states you can't here because there legislation that prohibits it okay see nobody else we move forward on to reports of committees and department heads Finance Mr rag thank you mayor um real quick a little further down the line on the agenda you'll see uh best practices um we're going to have further discussion about that when that comes up just want to let uh everyone know um basically our Municipal report C uh that has uh lent to Greater Municipal um transparency uh the state requirement began in 2011 our current CFO anatomist began completing uh the best practices in 2013 so she's had many years of experience um survey questions vary every year based on what new statutes were passed in the previous one or two years um survey items are delivered within the first two weeks of September and our due back to the state uh towards the end of the third week of October so uh deadline is coming up uh we have earned enough points every year to satisfy the state and I just wanted to uh say thank you to Anna Thomas for her her work on this it's over and above uh her regular uh work uh throughout the throughout these months so we appreciate that um also I'm sorry for having to use my phone just it got sent to me today um from our uh Public Library our Mars blaines Library um there will be a tree planting uh to celebrate uh six Decades of uh leadership guidance and devotion um of Lloyd Williams uh who lives down lives uh down South Jersey now so he's coming up for this um Saturday October 26th uh 10:30 to 12 but I'll make sure this gets out on all the appropriate uh media platforms so if uh anyone so chooses they can they can attend as well yeah it was a board member exactly so I thought that was uh pretty cool six decades ni right um and then to update everyone uh in the Construction office uh by January 1st um permitting process 80% of the permitting process needs to be uh digitized so I believe October 28th is the is the third demonstration um and then right after that we will decide um who gets the who gets the job so that's moving along two months to two months to train um and we should be we should be good to go so thank you all right moving forward public safe thank you mayor start with the police uh the prescription takeback program will be Saturday on 10:26 between 10 and 2: p.m. Mike where's that Stop and Shop St police at DPW also added a lot of traffic signs on the train station that advises Vehicles leaving the lot to yield to traffic and it's always a little complicated there whoever knows about the train station or you're on the other side of the road going make a sharp right or or a long r but uh hopefully uh do the best you can it's a very difficult intersection and a lot of people lot smarter than me have looked at it and uh just got to scratch your head on that one sometimes you go behind the car and sometimes you're in front of the car when if you're making a left on 202 North coming from Frank um for fire prevention we had 165 items or lot lot of Life hazards use fire drills fire alarm inspections site inspections and almost 45 reinspection so been busy uh moris fire department and by the way we have our chief in the back but I'm just going to say a little thing we we'll get to you in mik um I understand the new many Pumpers been ordered so congrat so great congratulations and it's slated to be uh for spring built and uh you also had all the hoses uh I'm sorry the hoses tested and I think next week you're doing the ladders for the uh for the trucks that's all I have I don't want to take too much away from your report or mic so CH you one go ahead two chiefs we got I'll start with uh the deer call project at the department overseas um as of September 13th we've now harvested six female and two males eight in total so our Hunters are out trying to take care of some of the concerns related to to Deer especially uh you know vehicle collisions because that's that time of season now um I alluded to earlier uh hiring issues uh we applied for with the grant writer myself and the grant writer applied for the cops hiring Grant the Federal Department of Justice uh we were denied our application so we'll reconvene talking to Public Safety with ways to bolster our staffing levels um Saturday this past Saturday uh I attended the fourth annual Morris County National coming out and Community Unity day in morrestown headquarters Plaza talking about the rise of biased crimes in the state of New Jersey and looking at recruitment of officers at uh from the New Jersey lgbtq officers liaison so a great event um looking forward to attending more of those in the future and then connecting with peden and Motor Vehicle Safety it's not about just about enforcement it's about engineering and education so uh with the bur's permission We'll add some of these I have I thank uh our di hard Traffic Safety representative Jim hunt on traffic committee and go moris planes uh he had uh obtained these signs for us so we move over for safety on one side and we slow down for safety and our uh like to post those on some burrow properties throughout town with your imp Mission uh 10 or so in English and four or so in Spanish version so we'll do that uh with your approval over the next few days why not can't hurt that's all I have there right now few more signs that's it that's all I have thank you okay just uh two things um the American Road Project which again somebody recommended uh who lives over there in the new condos over there suggested some traffic improvements over there and lo and behold we got some and if you drive out the hover Avenue going east you'll see the yellow flashing light just warning drivers that people may be coming out of American Road merging on to Hanover the past few days they finished up all the extra signage and all that extra we got new cameras installed for the turn signals the planking light and signage so that project now is is completely finished and uh pink patch you guys wearing this too support breast cancer so thank you Chief I have a question for the chief can we get this camera on this like moves a little bit so we don't have to sit there for 5 10 minutes we'll talk to do actually we just had a conversation about them in the timing of the light so uh I don't know if it's an adjustment of the camera or just an adjustment in the timing of the sensor and how long it takes I know I sat there for a while myself this afternoon yeah so just getting back to that the traffic on the weekend has been crazy so I as the chief to have and they did come out everything is working as designed as designed and timed and everything else so weekends weekday I know four different schedules or whatever whatever but everything is up hold on my Merchant block because I it allows like two cars to go through um right across from the train station I mean it happen to me the other day at like 8: a.m. so yeah generally it depends on the first person being awake at the light or pulling up far enough to the signal to hit the sensor so but everything allegedly is Tim is correct in design and working as no no they were out here looked and timed and everything no no no I'm being serious they actually came out in like a couple days and within the week they came out it's incredible that's a different money take to the bridge that's another story won tell you how long lay out here us uh good evening all they sent the bill yes uh good evening all uh fire department we've been uh pretty busy we're up to 307 calls for the year so far um Council Cortez said we had a all our apparatus pumps tested two weeks ago they all passed hoses and ladders will be next week our test schedule again uh make the appointment for the lad truck to go out to get service and test it to the dealer get uh fire PR's been out they've been to the schools so they did all the all the fireing to the school kids in town so that went well and's see we're in very dry weather right now so you haven't noticed there's a lot of leaves so I'll par tell everybody not to park on and be careful with fire bits stuff like that we don't want it's very easy to very dry so very quickly um mini pumper has been ordered it's it's in the database right now probably Springtime we'll be out doing the uh final plan on DPW did some Paving over on over there theie good this I should okay that's good that oh we have Halloween coming up y hot dogs for the kids don't forget inside yes sure always just come up and state your name againa we know that but it needs to be on the record where the landing I I just have a quick question about the light at Mal partis you're talking about traffic and whatnot that's a delayed green and on the weekends there's really nobody making a left on to Mal partis and the traffic just backs up and it's a long delay you know it's it's like they think 42 cars are going to make left and on the weekends nobody's making a left and everybody's just sitting there wasting their time I've written the Department of Transportation about it what was the result uh no no answer I don't know I was going to use you if you got to Res yeah no I you know I'm Clarinda um so I don't know if you can do anything about that it's actually a burrow own traffic signal so we can check with Gen electric and having that timing however the only problem is there the first part car that pulls up in the lane it's only single L travel it recognizes that there's a car there in Q and it wants to turn left so you're stuck with the fact that they don't know doesn't you need to buy directional camera or some type of deviation Lane so but we'll we'll check in on it yeah maybe it could just be quicker light too I mean it's a long delayed green that's all I got a lot of homework this week keep you busy please do moving on to Public Works is what he's not here public buildings and grounds skip me I'm more than sorry Bill go ahead thank you may I have two items first is an update on the uh the roof 53 Warehouse project the tab Road owner uh that's moving along very quickly beehive activity there um right now about 60% of the site is paved they're working on landscaping and most of that is in at this point the sewer connection has been made so the uh the owner looking for the end of November as a Target date for Co for we'll see there a lot there's still a lot of work to do but but they are moving along quickly the second thing is are you are aware we did receive $130,000 grant for the move 53 sidewalk project earlier this month the executed agreement came through from from do so the next step is we have to get plans specifications to the do for their approval before we move forward with the project so I guess for next month's council meeting on the consent Cal we'll be looking for authorization to do that that's all I have I got a question for in that gr um you look at the retention Basin right the guard rail stops short and it doesn't cover the entire so on the other side yeah but can we use some of that money to put some in or just for the sidewalk no just come on now you're really trying to stretch a dollar so what's wrong that and I just want to bring up one other thing too that a resident did suggest so we we're on this bandwagon here today um a resident did suggest some offsite drainage work and um the engineers we had a meeting with the residents and some of their concerns whatever and we had a meting with Lincoln um and they are they started I don't know if they're done probably in the middle they're working in those yards now so they're behind you know they're on Greenwood Road they're doing on-site drainage on some of those homes over there so you know these things can be done uh if if people bring this to our attention but it has to be done at the right time um not too late because it's always hard to go backwards but if we know about stuff at the right time we can we can get a lot of these things done so got traffic lights done site drainage done crosswalk safety done and and and these ideas came from residents so never hesitate to call or you have a good idea let us know sorry about that bill uh public buildings of grounds Jo just a few things to report um so I just wanted to give an update from uh the Mars County Park commission so I've shared information on this previously um but we have some information to report so we we've been working over the past few months to put together a grant proposal for um we call it Community Park Trail and essentially it's it's 75 miles of a gravel trail that will go basically behind flurry field up in the Ridge and then kind of come down behind that second field over there and then connect to um the walkways around community park so uh we submitted the Grant and just found out that we are one of seven communities um that are going to receive a total of $1.3 million in County funding so we're just a small portion of that um but essentially the park commission um puts uh they look at all the grants that are that they receive um they choose a few of them and it's it's a pretty in-depth process I mean we had a Mee with them numerous times answer different questions get photos right bill you were very involved and I appreciate all your help with that s and and Jerry as well and Steve Welsh our grant writer um so it was a lot of work um but they kind of helped us I think they were very passionate about the program they know the park and they think it's a really great idea so they they helped um us get to where we needed to be and they presented um this to the County Commissioners at their last meeting and uh we find out at the end of the month whether or not we're getting it so this portion is just 31,0 278 but that's for design and permitting so it's a multiphase process so once we get past design and permitting um and that's really to like assess wetlands and and see anything else that we might need as part of the project because the next part is the construction phase and that's where the big budget comes in and uh when most likely we would apply for that in 25 um to be used in 26 so more to come on that but exciting news that were even being considered um just wanted to share an update on some of the great stuff that's happening um with downtown Mars Plains so I'm sure you've heard they're having their second annual pumpkin illumination and um they're really kind of upping the ante um even from last year it was a tremendous event um but they're even doing more to get businesses involved so they're having uh their business pumpkin carving contest there's over 30 businesses that are participating even New Jersey Transit um so I hope nobody's taking the train there um so you can visit these businesses October 25th through 27th to see their pumpkin masterpieces and you can vote for your favorite at downtown Mars pl.org and there'll be a lot on social promoting this but um all of the businesses are really EX excited about this it gets a little competitive um but it's going to be fun to see um see all those their Creations you may have seen some pumpkins on speed well um and down the merchant Block in front of a lot of the businesses that is courtesy of the mayor and the council um is our way of spruing up Mars Plains downtown and get getting everybody in the spirit um the pumpkin illumination event is the 25th of um October that's a Friday night it runs from 6:00 to 8 and we are going to be essentially shutting down all of merch and block very similar to the block party in September using that same footprint um there's going to be music vendors um food special promotions with local businesses so definitely it's a great event and I recommend um that you go um farmers market so we had our last Farmers Market uh last Saturday it was um 18 weeks of of f of farmers market so I think it was a great season I hope that everybody had an opportunity to come down we do have one last event on um Saturday November 30th from 9: to 1 we're going to be in our same space um but we're going to be collaborating with the business development committee and downtown Mars Plains because it also happens to be small business Saturday so it's going to be some fun promotions and um Partnerships with businesses going on that day so definitely um look out for that the community bonfire is Saturday 10:26 from 6:00 to 9: at Community Park um pickle ball um while we still have our outdoor Court uh we're bringing it in um in the community center um starting it started October 1st but it runs all the way through April 25th and there's a sign of Genius that you can ED to secure spaces um for you and your team members so definitely check that out I just wanted to um give an update too on some of the work that beautification has been doing and larinda I know you're you're here and a member of that team um they brought the goats back as you may have seen um back at community park and so they did a really great job um the beautification does want to make sure that we can bring them back in 25 and also looking to have them come in June and and September so that they can be more effective I think it was a little later the season that they came and um and I heard that many people went down to go see the goats and they couldn't find them but whenever Chris Graziano came they just came out of the Woodworks and she was they call her the goat Whisperer so um also wanted to give an update on Robert's Garden that falls under my remit as well we meet as a team about twice a year to kind of assess the trees in in Robert's Garden anything that um we need to maintain we work very closely with the DPW to do that um but then also opportunities for planting so I'm happy to share that um three trees have been planted this year many of those trees are donated by um their memorial trees and and different things so um so it's great to see that um so we had some new plantings they also want to plant two sassa trees so we got permission today based on our budget they need to have a male and female um they're going to honor Joe select selecto he was past president he was past president of the Sha tree commission many years ago but um I think they had a tree planted for him they wasn't doing well so they wanted to replenish that so they're going to do that um I think that's it okay thank you just getting back to New Jersey Transit I think we have meeting tomorrow is it with Mikey Cheryl's office do New Jersey Transit and some of the issues that they're having so that's good I actually had one more thing sorry I just wanted to report I don't know if you've been to the community garden but um back in behind the community garden uh the beautification has planted seedlings right the goal there is that um when the shade tree commission is looking for opportunities to plant trees because that is one of their main goals that we could look for ways to actually plant seedlings so that we don't have to go and purchase trees right they cost about $400 a tree every time we want to plant one so um the trees are actually getting a little um taller and they've been able to plant um I believe Three Trees over in monog park um so there's one actually right near the playground right by two picnic benches it looks really great and then they planted um two others on the corner of in Sun Valley so I think that's a real was a really great initiative and certainly something that's going to help save the borrow money in the long run and replenish our Treads that's a fun project yeah good Public Health sanitation sewers Nancy sure Board of Health met on Wednesday October 9th and discussed their fees for 2025 and plans for plans for their Wellness day uh was a great event last Saturday from 8 to 11 at Community Center um on Jim PI drive they had some really great vendors as the mayor mentioned the uh was it trans options now Avenues and motions was there were there there was the mosquito commission senior care services Mental Health Services um healthy relationships with jbws Planet Fitness giving out free one-day passes there were Health screenings Naran training excellent info we just need to work on how we're going to get more residents there I me there's Sports going on there's the market and um unfortunately it was lightly attended but I I I saw you there Kathy there was great information in you as well bill at every one of the tables maybe we should have it at the farmers market yeah but if it rains that's a problem rains want to know how lucky I am we're going out to bid for our Animal Control contract which is expiring on December 31st and flu shots are available for homebound individuals we have the health officer phone number on our website and anyone can call there who's Homebound and get a food shot brought right to their inside their house uh Municipal Alliance met on Monday October 7th they're doing some great work and um one of them is their this fast program that they co-sponsor called families and students together with this fough school they're having their friends giving event on the 22nd of November and they're actually doing an interesting program with some of the new uh people to our country who are attending barel school they don't understand the Halloween celebrations that we have and those Traditions so they're kind of doing like a like orientation for families about what what Halloween is and what it means and stuff um so that's kind of interesting stage fun show don't miss it Friday November 15th and um the municipal Lance next meets on Monday November 4th teen center we had our seventh grade event and recycling fundraiser and the kids volunteered there um we are working on we got our private Facebook page up and running and publicity going out to get more families involved and we have our sixth grade event coming up which is their first event at the house uh with glow sticks and spooky stories and uh they're planning to do I need to talk to Chris they're they're planning to do like s'mores and a little they're using that little fire pit thing that they have so maybe we can put it on the basketball court and try to I'll work with I'll talk to chis um and they also have a Dan their first dance coming up a Halloween all great dance the green team is meeting next Monday October 21st recycling committee had their annual meeting on October 8th they talked about the importance of all Morris Plains businesses reporting their recycling tonnage on a timely basis and complying with the requirements to separate trash and recycling for their haulers so there some of them have private haulers and um you know some of the members of Rec committee have noticed that the bins have both trash and recycling in them which is a violation so we need to figure out how we're going to get more U compliance with those regulations there was a planes talk article written by our fire prevention official that they loved about the dangers of lithium ion batteries but they would like to see a follow-up article that perhaps they will work on about how to properly store and dispose of those batteries because we talked about the dangers but now we need to talk about what to do with them there's been an ongoing problem that's for years now with dumping at the recycling center things like Furniture but also construction materials and trash and none of that is permitted at our recycling center so we discuss various solutions to prevent the gate from being left open and you know this type of illegal dumping one member mentioned that ShopRite has a Terra cycle bin to collect food wrappers and wants to look into getting a similar receptacle at stopage shop so I'm not sure what's involved but she's been looking to that're uh as you saw we're preparing our contract for trash collection and um clean communities fall cleanups are planned the assignments for the dates and locations will be going out next week so if you don't hear from Jim mandino and you're involved in a committee that does a cleanup every year you can reach out to Jim his information is on the website that well okay ordinances of Public Utilities County thank you mayor yes um I've been talking about the fact that I was invited to attend a shade tree meeting to discuss um our draft of our trees ordinance for Morris PLS and I was there m my main thrust was to get their feedback on what they felt about this and um my committee and I will be discussing topics raised and how we can possibly incorporate our existing Morris Plains um ordinance into the uh ruling that came down from the state regarding the ordinance that has to be in place in every town um but we have had that D that draft and we've been discussing and working on it and uh I hope to have more information in the future that's all I have can I just and one thing um so we mentioned on um the consent calendar about the solid waste collection and Disposal recycling I just wanted to really commend Nancy for all the hard work that you did on that I mean it was she looked at so many different options and um whe you know everything from one time a week which I know most of us don't want but you have to get the pricing for that just so that you could see the whole picture right and different ways of picking up garbage they have some of those garbage trucks that come as a machine and the and it lists it up and you know there's all different options and it was so comprehensive I'm on her committee with art we reviewed everything U made a recommendation to the council but I just wanted to commend you for all of that hard work because I I know it was a lot thank you and John also oh yeah too introductions of ordinances we have none no ordinances on second reading no resolutions no unfinished business we do have new business Mr Wagner like I like I stated uh earlier um these best best practices survey here U 13 13 Pages 13 pages long and 69 survey survey questions um seems like it gets uh more expansive year after year but I guess that's but I guess that's good um topics covered affordable housing uh budget one for couple for Broadband uh cyber security capital projects ethics environment uh Financial Administration lead remediation uh Personnel procurement shared services special Improvement districts transparency and uh that's it so it's quite extensive I was able to have about an hour's worth long discussion with our um CFO Anna about several several of the items like I said um we've collected enough points each year to uh appease the appease the state um but anyone who has specific in-depth questions I don't know if everyone's had a chance to review all all of the pages yet yeah they should have um you know they can they can reach out to with any in-depth questions um this is a this document uh is is good to go over um a lot of the stuff um uh you'll probably see again in the future and they start off now just asking some of these survey questions and this really has to do with uh it's tied to how much state aid with that we do get as a b so um we want to do as good as we can on it to make sure that we maintain our state aid and uh we've done that consistently um since probably 2011 I think it was that this started and uh it's you know it's an Ever evolving document and every year it's a little bit different and the burough applies to uh most every one of these uh categories and there's over I think this year is 69 questions that you have to adhere to and uh you know the bur did very well I'm proud of the bur and everybody that that's involved with this because it's not just one person one person may put this together but it's the whole girl that uh makes it a document that um is good and adhered to and really opens our eyes to a few things that are coming down in the future so it's a good document it's a good refresher every year and certainly gives us stuff to work on in the coming future so good thing any comments yeah I notic uh also just wanted to point out you know each each year there's um in the in the in the comment section perspective uh she she picks out three or four uh items that uh we did not fulfill from the prior year and tries to hit you know three or four new ones each year to um you know increase our increase our point total so um I know she told me she's not happy with you know not getting the full amount of points some of these are go pretty in depth way way above my uh knowledge and understanding but um for the most part I was really pleased with learning about how long it's how long it's we've been doing this and uh how well we do uh year after year so and nobody's perfect there's always for improvement this kind of forces us to do the purp certain are keep improv um no okay thank you um okay moving on [Music] to we have a presentation by Rosemary Stone dhy mayor members of council attorney Rosemary Stone Dy partner with the law firm ofout here tonight asking for your time to make a presentation regarding a zone change request I have on behalf of client if I could have just one minute I want to just set up an easel so that we can have just a couple visual aids so while we're setting up the easel just by way of background cuz I know it's getting late I don't want to keep you guys here longer than necessary it's okay um just to give wave some background we're here tonight regarding the property located at 300 paper Road many of you may not know the address but you'll know right where it is it is the island if you want to call it that comes in that's surrounded by State Road Route 10 County Route 53 and paper currently it consists of a single family dwelling with an oversized detached um Garage on it and it's the house is built according to tax records around 19 20 it's had very little updating over the years this council's been nice enough to give it an extension of time to actually get off the cessful situation that the property currently has so that it can connect properly into the um sewer system and it has an above ground oil tank several cars that you'll might see that are sitting on the property and the property is not in the best of condition and being fairness my recently acquired that property and our request is it's currently zon for R2 which is your single family residential Zone and our request is to move it into the Zone immediately adjacent to it which is your C1 Highway commercial Zone and you'll hear in our presentation tonight why we think that zone is a better fit for development of that particular piece of property we have with us tonight a professional planner to give you his planning opinion in support of that request but all we're asking for tonight is that if the council and mayor were to so see it fit to recommend this to your planning board to do some further investigation based off of our request and then see what your own planning board's recommendation back to you is hopefully they are in agreement with us and our planner that this Zone makes more sense for future development of this site rather than seeing future development of the site be some type of residential or as the planner will explain to you some of the other uses that are permitted in the R2 Zone which we don't think makes sense for the development of the site given it's an opportunity we see for the municipality to control kind of what would be built there as that Gateway coming into um the municipality when you come in off 10 over from obviously the the municipal boundary there with Pary Troy Hills so with that being said we do have for you right now this current zoning map and I'd like to introduce Mr Alexander dowy who is our professional planner and he did prepare um we did do for the council and I hope all of you had an opportunity to see it um we did prepare a packet as well in support of the request uh we did have to modify the land use development application a little bit um but we did put in there the information presented a planning memo you would also see in there a copy of your Zone ma some Aerials some photos of the property and I also took the liberty of highlighting in different colors to make it easier to see what your um R2 Zone permits versus what the C1 Zone permits just to make it easier for you guys to also follow along this evening so before we start even though you're not being sworn in can you just give the board some sorry the council some background as to your qualifications as a professional plan certainly um my name is Alex Dy um address 54 Main Street CH New Jersey Professional planner my education at a rer flin Masters in City and Regional planning for the concentration development and Redevelopment certification of public policy um testify throughout the state I am the Redevelopment planner for the Ville um I'm also the supervising planner for the township of Z just right up the street grew up right in East Handover very familiar with the area um I'm a member of the APA executive uh committee um as far as a professional development officer for the continued education credits for the APA I presented the league of municipalities I've also just recently presented the state Redevelopment conference I've never not been recognized in front of various land venue Sports is not a professional planner my license Ur in good standings um so by way of a background um I work with Municipal municipalities in in the public sector as well as in the private sector um so I kind of have a feel for both sides of the various aspects of planning um so when I was asked to look at this property from a planning perspective I just want to point out one thing that I was really interested uh um uh I felt was interesting about this property is unique features that are associated with property as Council kind of recommended uh I mentioned earlier this property is outlined in red on this exhibit here it has three W of ways when I look from a land use perspective as a land use planner and what's best for land and the use of that land um I couldn't think of anything more suitable for commercial property than three public rivate ways I mean when we talk about commercial and opportunities here um the site location is is what makes it suitable we're not going to put a 7 residential neighborhood it's not it's not ideal right you we're not going so for commercial seeing Route 10 here seeing Route 53 having this kind of J handle here at forer Road it's an island often its own and it's a fairly good size property it's just over two acres it's approximately 96,000 480 sare ft when we look at the current zoning which is referenced here it's a Zone off on it Zone it's the R2 Zone um as Council indicated 1920 the house that's been associated with the site still on a Cess pool which is actually a grade lower than the seic system um there hasn't really been a whole lot of positive investment into the property from a residential standpoint and um given you we're just a few months away from you know 2025 I think that's evident within itself the underlying residential Zone when I see this and I look at the zoning um you know it's concerning but from a commercial standpoint it's Society um and my exhibit packet um that I presented little brief memo about the property on the second page you'll see that the C1 which is essentially about these three lots right here outlin here UPS the property so it's not too far off from the C1 from a planning standpoint Ling standpoint I think it makes better sense from an opportunity to see some of the permitted uses in a C1 here as a gateway clean that clean it up um as there was discussions earlier uh and throughout the presentation traffic already exists on rout 10 traffic already exists on Route 53 as well as T coming in and out nothing in the C1 zone or in pretty much any Zone I see across the state my job I review zones Master plans and so forth there's nothing in that zone that would essentially draw an outside population to come visit the site unless you're giving out free gold you have the fountain youth coming at the site nobody from you know new Bruns Atlantic City is going to come here to visit the site the population the traffic right here that would support any of the permitted use C1 they're already existing so from a Lan's perspective and taking a look at the re-examination reports and seeing what's happened here in Mor planes you know with some of the big corporate campuses this is an opportunity to kind of find that variety of land uses to kind of balance uh you know tax base here uh you know not that that's an incentive or or an under loan but the zoning itself when we look at the R2 approximately five houses could essentially be allowed to be built here by zoning a lot lot area requirements they fit here it's never come to this from my understanding come to the municipality hasn't manifested house since 1920 I think that speaks volumes about it's not really suitable for residential when I look across on Route 53 we do have boxw drive it's R4 Zone I mean we do have the R Ford right there but it's a completely different characteristic within itself that that streak really has a neck to it kind of brings that development within itself when I looked at potentially negative impact associated with residential GE versus commercial this is high traffic I'd hate to see families live there I hate to see the site developed and and the narrative that it could potentially be developed when we look at that we have single family which approximately about four Lots by Zone could fit there we also have place of worship and public building uses and shelters and and and special needs uh housing I don't see that being the best use of that property I see more detriment associated with that um you know from from a habitability and residential standpoint from commercial I see a lot of opportunities I see an opportunity to provide a gateway to the community really see that site develop to its full potential it's on the outskirts of town it's not in the middle of residential neighborhood or the middle of downtown it's so ser the community coming in and out um as well as the traffic that already exists there's employment opportunities associated with commercial development that's affiliated with the C1 I see a lot of positive benefits that have the undertone that match your master plan your re examination report as well as advancing the goals of the ml Miss valan law but when I look at the C1 Zone there's a variety of uses that could go there and again they're they're nothing unique they're pretty you know cookie cutter across the state commercial zones but we have opportunities as far as just to name a few adult centers art galleries art studios Automotive Repair automotive sales automobile sales Parts bars tavens Car Wash tral centers contractor Services convenience stores craft distilleries um you know we have health healthc care services health or fitness centers indoor commercial recreation instructional school or Studios we have uh public buildings or uses we have restaurants retail food establish Retail Nursery retail popup Retail Services retail stores um we also have Urgent Care Medical Vocational School warehousing Supermarket wineries very broad stroke of what could potentially be there that I feel would capitalize and do well within these these three rways um from a residential standpoint I'm not seeing that I think with manifested house has been since 1920s typically in zoning when we look at land use we like to recogniz what's already existing when we look at zoning and so forth so n a house built in the 1920s when we talk about why it might be zoned the way it is the house was there you know fairly early on you know a little over 100 years now um when we look at the potential of a c C1 rezone again it's right there I think there's good continuity here um as far as impacts here this is a very um heavily traveled Road Route 53 as well as Route 10 If This Were to be commercial I don't think there'll be any negative impacts here with Foxwood this is kind of off by itself it's got good buffer it's got It's got good distance um but when we look at this opportunity here to catch this I look at it there's this residential coming in and out of there driveway so forth balls going in the street kids family I I I don't like that from a land use from a planning standpoint um again three right of ways when I look at potentially any Community I would work for where I would put the commercial Zone I'd put it there strong traffic and rways in that regards if the mayor and Council were to see this um fit to recommend to the planning board I believe from a planning standpoint we advance many purposes of mran law as well as your reexamination goals of your master plan purpose to promote the Public's health safety and general welfare the current res residential designation does not adequately promote public health safety in general welfare we have high traffic noise we'll have the elevated noise levels there the air pollution the vehicle congestion and again the environment is really not conducive of wholesome living from a residential standpoint um we'll Advance purpose D avoiding conflicts with County and state planning when we look at the essence of Planning and Zoning we want to take effect where these County state roads are what the county Visions are we don't really see a lot of residential homes on Route 10 you know there's some sometimes we have a few of those relics hanging around from from back in the day but it's not it's not really meant for res residential driveways and so forth there's plenty of uh engineering regulations as far as where you should put driveways if there is a state road and so forth um so I believe we would be um supporting that narrative with County and state Planning by kind of you know putting commercial uses in appropriate locations on Commercial corridors instead of residential um we'd have purpose G providing sufficient space for varied uses um I believe when we look at this opportunity here for a commercial it really opens the door for is that could be amenities for the communities employment opportunities for communities and development aside to full potential um purpose age would be Transportation routes and preventing uh blight um when we look at this again Route 15 uh I'm sorry Route 53 Route 10 this is an isolated condition here with this property I'd almost really call this almost a spot Zone I don't know how it ended up as R2 other than the fact that there was already existing residential there from 1920 um but nonetheless resoning it to the C1 will will allow for um permitted commercial development that would address the potential BL conditions I'm not saying that the residential house there today is glided it is on a Cess pool on a set system there's been little reinvestments to the site to kind of bring that up sometimes when you drive pass it you don't even know the house is there it's it's a little overgrown um and I think when we look at that that condition associated with that that site be hard pressed to find somebody who's going to put that POS investment to the site a positive investment to a homeowner there I believe it's a rental property right now it's not even owner occupied it's not really drawing in what what we see the conditions associated with a real residen neighborhood like on Foxwood so when we talk about light it's isolated it's by itself it's kind of all from an island literally an island um and really nothing's happening there and it's it's kind of a an opportunity for for again that transformative use here and and best use for the property we can advance purpose eye for a desirable visual environment we get a a fresh look here of what we can do there also when it goes to commercial I want us to bring to the mayor and council's attention it would go under site plan review if your planning board would see that fit if you guys would agree with this so if there was a commercial use there it there's another layer of um control as far as how that site would work function operate lighting Landscaping you know Ingress egress there's County Roads there there's there's levels of control that really would would maximize the efficiency of that that property in the most safe and efficient way as well as the desired um environment to remot purpose side Landing law we'd also Advance purpose and for more efficient use of land um with the view of Lessing the cost of such development when we talk about more efficient use of land kind of the concerns that were being raised before a lot of these communities we are reaching carrying capacity there's not much room we could put places so when we talk about efficient use 20 50 years from now when we talk about wow wish we used that property more efficient manner that was the best use for the community I don't see residential as the best use for the community along that along those uh corridors so when I look at this from the basic mpal Landing saw perspective I wanted to you know look into the master plan the reexamination report um just want to bring it's it's troubling but it's happening Morse Plains is one of the few communities that had large corporate campuses great great ridal Base Great employment opportunities uh with the change of markets Blockbuster doesn't exist land uses are forever changing unfortunately um some of these uh amenities and employment opportunities um have left um so we're actually seeing a lot of our non-residential uses be transformed into resident residential uses for other reasons um this is one of those unique opportunities where we could take a residential property and bring back another viable a use in the community um and with that being said um there's a lot of talks in the in the re-examination reports as far as you know the goals and intents of the reexamination um and I do believe with this opportunity to look at this closer for a reone consideration here we would certainly Advance some of the goals and intents of the master plan and reexamination uh reports here and there um I think a really good one here is to um we talk about develop and design guidelines to promote desired character in various commercial districts and corridors along speed Avenue in Route 10 again we have those additional controls at a site plan level to get those desired uh design guidelines um preserve and protecting the Suburban character of the existing residential neighborhoods this is the existing but the character is not really residential neighborhood um If This Were to be developed to its fulls potential and in in use here I still don't see this little island as being a residential neighborhood it's kind of a oneall situation and then when we talk about other goals here maintaining the burrow systems of streets and Roads uh to Contin to provide a safe and efficient move moving of traffic and a scours routs that would negatively impact existing infrastructure residential neighborhoods again I think utilizing this this these these corridors here to the maximum potential that traffic exists we we we promote that traffic and free flow there housing coming in and out driveways in that regards or or the other uses that may be permitted in the R2 Zone I think would we would have some concerns um and again just for purposes of land use one and two family uh applications are exempt from site plan so you don't really have that level of control as far as how the site functions and operates certainly it's County and state roads depending um on this this is County but you would have to go to the county to uh get those curb Cs and so for but it's not the same kind of level of control and oversight as it would be with the site plan and the commercial use so I think um for purposes of this assessment and evaluation when I look at the uh zoning here we have that C1 Corridor doed right along Route 10 business corridors Office business then this R2 kind of jumps out of nowhere the R4 works it's a big area it's got a nice long neck this from a R2 perspective it's jumping out at me as a missed opportunity and and a way to really you you know bring a nice Gateway Corridor coming in and best serving the already established Community as they come in and out along these uh these major uh throughways here um so really in a nutshell that's the overall scope that's what we're looking at that's where we're here before the mayor and Council that this property is a oneoff isolated unique situation um that I think um should be considered at the planning board to see what their their determination is if they agree with my assessment um and for recommendation let me just if you finish I have a question for you so can you just you touched on spot zoning um I was asked a question about spot zoning can you differentiate that a little bit for Council certainly many many many years ago um when communities were being developed it was how do we come up with this delineation and sometimes there was some debates well I don't like this I want to do this here and they would say okay go ahead and do that and it was didn't have any Rhyme or Reason so it was more like a spot zone so when I look at spot zoning um I'm not saying this happened here we looked at the existing conditions and we said that's a house there let's make that residential why would I make that anything otherwise there's a family here we have to be mindful of that that narrative times fast forward but when you talk about spot zoning here um in the intent of zoning we have to reconcile it with the goals and intents of the master and there's many more uh goals that I think we advaned in that but to put a Zone in place today you have to justify you have to study you have to look at it if we were to look at this from a commercial C1 I don't believe we'd ever rais the bar or question if that was a spot Zone because it makes logical sense um let's say this was commercial and we wanted to make it residential you might raised the concern why like that's that's that spot doesn't work right why that one off property and and that's what this is right now it's currently one property zoned off on an island by itself with no real distinction or correlation to any other residential aspects here typically when you look at land uses from a public realm commercial hard delineations major roads industrial they're off on their own don't really know when one zone starts and one stops unless there's distinctive features here these distinct features here is the Roden ever within itself so when I look at this if we were to try to make this a residential today it's one property I would raise the bar as that spot zone or not in this particular case I don't think that would ever raise the bar I think it's R2 today because the house was from 1920 okay just have one more question I to the council um if uh this this goes to a commercial right yes eventually would you have access both on 53 and the and the onramp so that's um that's the beauty of the site plan it's really up for how the site would be developed the safest opportunities and again given there are State and County roads this would have to be then vetted out at the county level for the best use of egress in in and out of that site so that is a possibility then it is a possibility to get two driveways for commercial use I I I I think anything is possible yeah and that remain residential would be of course we don't know obviously but is it there a potential that there would be five driveways coming out well there that would be a major subdivision that would have to be approved but currently right now the underlining zoning has potential to produce a Prost in five houses variance for I think there' be one minor VAR uh variance for five Lots there but those five driveways that major subdivision that would still need approval um but residential up to five houses would be essentially use location start with thanks for that good presentation for all this background information is very helpful um so I don't know if you were here earlier but we have a grant that was just approved for a walkway along 53 that's going to sort of go kind of near this prospect on your map here it and it it it travels along 53 and then it goes right on that Prospect right crosses over here crosses andoss the street that yeah so we also have a lot of new residential development along 53 when I say no I mean in the last 10 years we have 260 tab Road and now we have all those other developments affordable housing yeah so if there was some type of a retail Hub here I could envision residents along that Corridor wanting to walk to this property you know so is there a potential I mean is making it a Gateway sort of Intimates that people are going be flying off the highway and then flying onto the highway is there a way that this could be developed commercially but also be accessible to people who live in the area I think anything is possible and you know when we come off the highway and many of the residents you know comments earlier about you know you know I want more Spain to be you know don't go into those crosswalks don't speed that regards this is a fairly long kind of entry point it's a little dark right right here but being able to develop that that site would be an opportunity to put other traffic Comming crosswalks flashers that kind of stuff for that population to access that site personally as a planner I'm not an engineer um I would not want to cross uh t Road or uh Route 53 I personally would not um I I think it's more of a autoc Centric kind of island off on its own but if there was an opportunity to enhance pedestrian safety and and crossings that would come with with a commercial site what about any Wetlands or any kind of I don't know what those terminology is but like anything there that's concerning environmentally because there's so much of it is undeveloped I can answer that question not the planner because I helped the client and doing the due diligence and the simple answer is no the fortunate is because it has been used as single family residential since the 1920s even though yes it has a very old cess pool system in on it it has an above ground oil tank on it and it hasn't had any of those history of uses that often you hear about that can cause a problem so when our client did their phase one investigation their Wetlands investigation none of those things were prevalent that would cause an issue with being able to develop the site so you don't see any impact on nearby res or anything like that well if anything if you develop it right that's one of the things is it would be required because it would be a major site plan application with that amount as your own engineer can indicate the controls that are in place that would have to be for the drainage the runoff storm water RS all of that would now be heightened if anything it would make this property better and help any surrounding neighbors that are experiencing any water runoff conditions because of the existing grades on the site and do they have a tenant in mind already one or more one or more no we've had several people approach us um but at this point in time without knowing if it's even viable to go with the commercial development versus the residential it's really like putting the cart before the horse and in Fair is some of the things listed as you know in your Z C1 Zone would not be the best fit for this property right the C1 Zone has a lot of uses to it um but a lot of those uses in there are very good potential for the zone and those would be the things that our client would be looking at thank you thanks Dennis uh Nancy took my question about any urrent um application application in um so you're saying you're saying no there's there's nothing it's residential so you wouldn't you wouldn't until we get this done right the area to the north is that precip yes where's theorder of plain yellow line saying that this is the property right here right and just to the north just to the north of that is that when you go under the bridge under the bridge becomes precip correct precie this I'm sorry no it's like a it's it's like an ice cream cone there right so they just above the 300 Taber Road this correct correct that's do property oh say it's utility right away no exactly so that was my question if you could just show what the do property is on there so the dot property is this little cap this as you call it the ice cream and this is the cone um so this is dot property it's government owned um so it's going to stay pretty much yeah and I'm confident um as a as a planner and and watching these and being a part of these processes um I'm confident that if this were to be um staple for the community um that you know because giving it would have to be beted at the county and do levels in that regards There's an opportunity also to have um you know some just to be manicur to some degree and kind of you know P clean I think it' be in both parties best interest um because again having that proximity 10 53 having these three major right of ways that's what really makes a commercial site viable so having that visibility and that exposure um would certainly Bo well for both in keeping that that Island clean right J so you said that um I know that obviously it's not zoned for for businesses at the current time that you had some interest can you give me and you don't have to obviously name a business but what classification of bus business has expressed interest so far it's been a variety we've had some uh questions about maybe some type of retail um what we would call store fit into your retail store service we've had some interest in maybe some type of small little local supermarket or convenience store we've had interest on potentially like medical um you know there's been a wide range the problem is and what I tell clients under the law is people can speculate they can tell you they're interested but until you have a signed Loi or a lease it's just talk right and that's the problem you know people can tell you they're interested but until something actually transpires and they start putting money down and investing and sign on the dotted line it's all speculation but the real issue here is is with it being zoned R2 all you're going to get is speculation until it's actually zoned to be able to permit some of those variety of uses then you're going to know which people are serious and going to move forward right but that's the challenging part because if we give approval you know you have to give that before you get any of that well it will help it will help for the development because as the planner indicated and I agree with him you know doing this for over 25 years myself in the world of land use is what you typically see is if a property is zoned correctly people are going to come invest in the infrastructure is going to be developed here you have an R2 Zone that has sat stagnant for over a hundred years there is nobody knocking on the door for a hundred years to develop this property there is no when we did an Oprah there were no records that came out of the Oprah of any potential development of this site going back over 50 years so that tells you something right there this is Zone owned R2 so if we're going to keep at R2 we've done the math my client did cuz he's not you know a bad investor right you're talking five Lots right five Lots five single family homes surrounded by three rideways five driveways it just it doesn't make sense so my my issue um with that area is the traffic pattern so if you're going um on uh Taber Road you're going towards parpan it's right by Foxwoods you're at that light it's two lanes right and then it quickly goes into one and I don't know if anybody's been dve every time I drive there there's I'm usually in the lane um on the left and whoever's in the right right and they try to cut you off and they try to go ahead of you and I think that's a very dangerous roadway there um that's why and I know that obviously it's a county road but I have some issues there with the current configuration and I know that configuration is not that old because they kind of Reid that area right not that long ago and I also think that um the other part of Taber Road when you're going out towards 10 is some of the most dangerous roads that we actually have in Mars Plains because people are coming down um what um eastbound on 10 they're getting off there they're going 50 60 miles an hour and then they're slowing down to try to make that turn to get on to go onto tab Road where the other way like when my daughter starts driving I'm going to tell her never to go that way when you come to go on to 10 you're then merging onto um the road where people are coming Eastbound and going 60 70 miles an hour when you're slow going out of there the only reason I'm bringing this up is because obviously there's going to be even more traffic if there if there's something that's commercial there and it's just a concern because I do feel that those roads there are very dangerous now one of the great things though that is if it does get a zone change to the commercial as the planner indicated whatever property wants to be developed there has to go in for preliminary and final site plan approval they also will have to go for County approval because we're on the county right of way correct so with that being said that's when there's opportunities depending on what that commercial use is for improvements things like deceleration Lanes things like enhanced lighting enhanced traffic controls things that will teach traffic because right now it's all wooded so there's no incentive to slow down it's dark at night when I drive that area at night I I I keep sometimes the high beams on just to do that turn you know I mean this is an opportunity to brighten the area to bring in some type of development that is then going to have to have any type of commercial development that would go here don't be mistaken with your um board engineer you know there's going to be traffic studies there's going to be all of those things that go with it which is not the same level when you put residential in nowhere near that level and you're not going to have the same lighting that you would have with commercial if you're going to do Residential I mean we all know what a neighborhood looks like and Foxwood is a neighborhood five houses here is not a neighborhood these will just be homes that will be facing taper and Route 53 before s speaks Rosemary I have a just a couple of questions for you uh question number one is I know you represent the the purchaser here I'm asking this question because of because of council Cortez is is there a condition on the contract for this approval or have you guys closed we've already closed so okay very it's my cousin thr have prop that's why check your cousin I got 90 90 of them in Mar PL okay so we already closed do you have any question yes I um I I can't agree more it was one of those properties like an island and and the word this fits perfectly because you got two but isn't there a state law that says if you're on a state road and you have a second road that you're obligated to go on the lesser of the traffic so that's that's that next level review as far as you know the county and the engineers I'm a land use plan from a land use perspective I see this more commercial I'm pretty sure that that's more of I've done developing and and I I don't think you'll be you'll be able to enter Route 53 but you will be able to enter from access ever happens regardless of the residential or or commercial well I don't think so on the residential component I mean if you have your your lots are 55 the driveway has to be somewhere yeah you don't the commercial yes I think the commercial really does bring a lot of the concerns as far as traffic cing lighting Ingress egress because it's a commercial site so it has to work it's going to get a lot of uh levels of of of scrutiny and and and an oversight from Engineers applicants Engineers U nobody wants to develop a site that's dangerous nobody can go to it in that they want to be able to have uh access to it your board engineer as well as the county engineers and in that regards um I think from an engineering standpoint you're going to have the best the best c y practices from you know sewer sanitation and storm Water Management Systems as well as as as traffic uh and that you don't get that level of control with residential you also stated that there was no Wetland there so you have an L I believe there was a study yes all right we don't have an Loi in hand but we did have a Wetlands EXP go out and do that correct um you know we do have a lot of trees so obviously removal of trees is goinge careful you have to abide by it that might allow additional trees for other areas of the municipality that's looking for some of those new plantings because that's what your tree ordinance provides for but yes obviously it's a very heavily wooded site um so several of those trees are going to spawn tree replacement how many can go on on the site depending on what type of commercial use is done as well as enhanced Landscaping things of that nature but I do want to just say we did prepare just so the board understood we did prepare if it was a five lot subdivision because as far as area goes and we did do um an a full zoning chart it would only require one variance in front of your planning board to have five Lots would be the lot at the top would be like your well sorry the bottom top the bottom here no cuz here's a do so You' have two two and then one come in obviously if the client went with a four lot subdivision it'd be a matter of right application which means there'd be no oversight because he meets all of the zoning requirements and again we don't think that makes sense you know you don't want homes on this part of the Rose and this island thank you now okay now I don't know if it's a question or just a comment but I knew a family that lived on that property and they had little children they had a slightly older child and the first time I visited I was absolutely shocked to think that a family lived on that on that island and that's exactly what it is and with there are three major rights of way that go around that I don't know how you can put anything there and have it be safe so I can't wait to hear more about certainly not housing I can't imagine housing there but commercial I'd like to know more about it well this is where at this point in the presentation if you are interested we would ask you to please um vote to allow it to go to your planning board for a recomendation do that before we do that or whatever I just like to have Bill weigh in on anything that you thank you so so at this point we're not dealing with specific engineering issues but as to access there's going to be challenges here for development of this property either way residential or commercial with the do the county and as Mr Cortez indicated if there are second level roads secondary roads Runing your property you won't get a DOT perit to access so and and again with along with those permits we'll go improvements widening any number of things so so it's going to be a challenge in that regard but that would apply to either residential development or commercial develop I don't I don't you know these issues the zone change issues really are going to have to be have to get input from our B plan of course that's really the issues to be resol have to be what we need input from our burrow plan clearly here that's that's the that's the first person we have to hear from I got I know that You' been fighting with the do to get a third lane but it doesn't go that far it stops before or I I lost my orientation it starts it starts about there maybe at the detention Bas so will it proper it goes east Al so it's it's this one yeah it's going towards I think it's past their property is where that's where I thought it starts right there by the about the gas station actually where that exit comes out that's the point that's so that property won't be affected well you know that I know what almost seems to on 53 if when you're heading towards Paran there's really not much you're going to be able to do there either because you have to narrow the road to go under the bridge right to go under the bridge and 10 they're not going to there they're never going to be able to make that like a second lane going towards Pacific oh on 53 uh I mean probably well they can't because the bridge isn't that wide yeah but they own some of that other property up North so south south of yeah but what I'm saying is eventually it's going to have to merge to go under the bridge more than likely I guess all right so uh does anybody else have any questions or concerns or anything can can you I guess John can you explain the process here so everybody know just so the board's comfortable and you understand the process what what uh Council here is doing tonight and planners advocating for from a planning perspective is is is a change to this particular lot of land from what's currently zoned as an R2 currently zoned R2 to eventually a C1 uh zone change under the municipal land use law I believe which is 40 call 55 d-64 my elction is correct no zone change can occur in any municipality until it's first um referred to that town which obviously here would be our burough planning board the planning board then reviews here's here's some testimony here's here's some other evidence that'll be submitted by these particular individuals um it'll be reviewed by our burrow planner and our planning board members they'll make recommendations about uh you know positives negatives suggestions food for thought so to speak but then ultimately that plan our planning board our burough planning board is going to refer the matter back to this Council the planning board has no inherent powers to adopt ordinances or change zones by themselves they can only look at this particular presentation this particular idea um and come to a conclusion as to whether or not this idea would be inconsistent with our current master plan and make other recommendations But ultimately this at some point will find its way back to this this board and it's this board that you guys will consider in the future adopting a zone change for that particular piece of property from the R2 Zone to the C1 Zone and and you know what what other other wisdom at that time we want to put into it but it's it's not tonight you're not approving a change to a C1 Zone you couldn't do that that would run a foul to the municipal land use wall um and uh so the council is just recommending this to the board right because the planning board is generally speaking the local experts here on planning that's why we've appointed them to the planning board and they Fetter out some of these ideas and as Bill alluded to our planner will ultimately be the guy that uh that provides uh um not a I'm sorry is not a my apologies on that but our planner will be the person who uh who ultimately gives us real solid guidance on that are there any other questions for engineer the attorney can I just have why isn't the planner a part of this process now well you mean tonight yeah well because in theory the first of all the planner doesn't generally attend these meetings but but but in theory um you have the right tonight to say no and say we don't we're not interested and we're not going to the planning board um that's always obvious in your perview too so I think that the the thought process here would be first thing you have to do if if if you're the the the owner of the property is to get this uh council's blessing to go to the planning board and then it's once you're at the planning board from the owner or the applicant or however you want to deem them from their perspective it'll be at that forum and in that jurisdiction where a lot of this will be discussed and that's probably where it would be appropriate for the planner to give his overview of it um and then again send back their recommendations and their conclusions to to us or to this body politic to ultimately make the call as to whether or not you want to adopt an ordinance down the road changing that particular piece of property to see1 up you know ultimately the planning board come back and say it's not inconsistent with the master plan and you guys may decide down the road well we're still not changing we still could do that too I don't want to get too far ahead but but uh there's a process this is step one in the process but you generally wouldn't have a plan here for that particular reason if if I may just add one one or two things as a planner for for for municipal government um it's different when a the the owner of the property is approaching uh uh you know an Administration uh the community at large to look into the property that they own as a planner I wouldn't recommend or rock the boat and say hey we should you know take this this site this you know deteriorated site the PO you know substandard condition site and Zone it something else might be controversial and what what you also would do too is if they were to make a positive investment to that property they'd have to go get variances because they'd be expanding a a pre-existing non-conforming use so we typically don't like to do that on on our own turf unless the property owners of that property want to encourage the mpal to take action in this case we have a property owner who recognizes the really limited options with with the R2 Zone so no fault of the planner not recommended we don't typically like to do that no I only ask because if they can give give us guidance in terms of the different things that are in the um document that could potentially be there and you know that's I mean that's the hard part that that we deal with and trust me they will do that at your planning board level and and that's where they delve into it a lot deeper um than what we wanted to kind of delve into you now with because you don't have your planner who's had a review to it yet like your Council said it's kind of like putting the cart before the horse because if you guys had no interest in it and you said no we don't even want to entertain this then it never even gets to that level so all we're asking for tonight is hopefully we've given you enough food for thought where you might be interested or you might think it's a good idea to where now you'll send it to your planning board to let them finish vetting it out and have your planers input on it and then they'll make recommendations back to you and then we'll come back to you again based off those recommendations and hopefully at that point with whatever concerns or issues have been raised or recommendations or conditions we'll be able to then hopefully convince you that we are in agreement and that you would then vote on it but if the recommendation comes back negative you may tell us no need a variance on things wouldn't you then have to go in front of the board of adjust depends on what kind of variance it is it's either Board of adjustment or but if the word to be zoned by your planner by municipality why that residential house is still in existence we have would need five out of seven votes at zoning board be D2 lawfully existing uh not permitted use so any any work that would have been done to that site would have had a go through zoning board and that's why so we don't we I can walk the boat in that nature so the question before the council here tonight I'll have Rosanne do a roll call as whether the council wants this to move forward uh to the investigation and looking that stage of the planning board have their recommendation come back and then the council at that time decide whether they want to do for ordinance change or not can you have a roll call please miss yes Mr Cortez life to the island yes Miss yes Miss Kelly yes Mr Wagner yes okay so you have your answer it will be move forward to the to the planning board talk to the attorney of the planning board and scheduling and all that thank you so much thank you for your time tonight thank you we have we do have vouchers Mr Wagner check list dated October 17 2024 the amount of 1,477 $68.7 is there a second second R quot please yes yes yes we have no need for an executive session do I have a motion to adjourn all in favor oain thank you everybody and thank you for members of the public for coming out giving us some great ideas