the regular February 12th 2024 meeting of Mars Plains planning board would you please stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stand One Nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I hereby announce that this meeting is being held in accordance with chapter 231 of the open public meeting act proper notice of meeting dates has been given to the Mars newsby and the Mars County daily record and posted on the bulletin board in the burrow Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and a forum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all time roll call please Mrs Kelly pres pres sorry I C Mrs mki here Mr Kelly here mrzel mayor okay are there any comments from the public on matters that are not on the agenda tonight seeing none we'll close that portion of the meeting uh we'll have correspondence and bills Karen do we have any correspondence we have no correspondence okay Mr Kelly you want to do the Bills please the F for approval for payment V for planning General and the purchase orders number is 202 4163 invoice for New Jersey planning officials for $95 mandatory training uh purchase order is number 20241 67 another one for New Jersey planning officials it's for $190 mandatory training purchase order number is 202 4168 invo from Anderson Anderson and denler for $283 Professional Services the purchase orders number 2024 0281 invoice from mariti and Falone L for $1,890 Legal Services purchased order number 202 4286 that completes it we have a second second may ask who who second that thank you okay Mr B yes Mrs Kelly Mrs deer Mrs mclusky yes Mr Kelly yes mayor Carr yes and Mr Drew yes okay um we'll go to the approval of the minutes we'll do the January 15th reorganization meeting are there any corrections or additions to those minutes okay before we start I would like to mention that on the first page uh it's not Leon Hall no any longer for uh it's William Ryden and that will also be in the February minutes or I mean January special meeting also are there any other cor sad day when we we eliminate Ron Hall that's all thank you man it's like the mob though Frank he just keeps coming back this might be it though okay so no are there any other Corrections or additions to the reorganization meeting minutes could we have a motion to approve make a motion to approve second second all in favor opposed okay that motion is carried those are approved uh and and now we have the planning board regular meeting minutes for January 15th 2024 are there any corrections or additions to that yes there is a correction okay uh on the very top it says January 12 2023 should be January 15 2024 where are we Frank on the very top of those minutes yes right any other Corrections or additions motion to approve so second all in favor opposed okay now we'll do the minutes of the January 20 this 209th 20 I have the correction on those minutes okay just a moment 29th 2024 this was the special planning board meeting okay uh M ster went you you know listening to the tape it's on page 290 paragraph n Mr Hall ask if buildings B it should be building through H we'll have top mechanical equipment not just B through H yeah B through H okay are there any other Corrections or additions we have a motion to approve please shall move second second with the corrections all in favor I I opposed abstain okay now we will move on to the application pb4 d23 1625 10 LLC um when we finished our last meeting before we get started we're going to have to go we'll go till 10: um maybe we'll be done before then I don't know we'll argue with you about that um when we finished up the last meeting Mr Hall had a lot of questions so I think can we pick up there I Tom for the record on beh of the applicant Mr will get us a chance to ask questions but we asked by Mr ment exhibit about the entry way in the site distance so we prepare that so I think you you put that on first i k go through that and obviously question for anybody so I'm going to recall the teller I think for the A8 does that sound right to you and this will be an exhibit of the proposed entrance from focusing on 18 correct well 12 El recall the issue for the board to remember possible queing and the pedestrians Crossing at that location within the site there be conflict with certainly Mr MTZ had raised a concern or a question as to whether a pedestrian Crossing from building F to building e or vice versa um using the crosswalk across the uh right in right out driveway off of Route 10 would there be sufficient s distance for an incoming motorist to see that person Crossing so exhibit a18 is entitled Highway entrance rendering highl marketpl it is dated 2924 um our office has prepared 3D models of portions of the site um and one of the things that we have done which um helps address the concern Mr Vols had raised is the plaza area at the East End of building F has been changed from what is currently or what is on the S plans that was submitted to you we have Shrunk the size of that um when we did our s plans we had not started programming all these Plaza areas so we wanted to be conservative and have a larger amount of impervious because we could always shrink it and our storm water would still work so as a programmed it we've shrunk that outdoor space um and what this shows is I'm coming in off a route 10 standing here making I'm sorry okay um I'm coming in off of Route 10 um this is building F on the right Building E on on the left and in the background you can see the crosswalk and standing here you can see that there is uh a clear line of sight to that uh crosswalk um and there is sufficient time for the speed of vehicles entering the site they need 155 ft in which to stop and that's on a wet road so there is plenty of site distance available for an entering vehicle what is that distance uh well that's going to be on my next this is the a19 I wanted to start with this because I think pictures are worth a thousand wordss I mean this clearly shows that you can see firm rout 10 coming into the there was talk about a wall you couldn't see over there's no wall there we took it out that was part of the reprogramming of that pla area um we had Mr maltz asked us to look at two things one is a pedestrian Crossing in car stopping that the wall that we have on the site plans did not impact on that but if that car is stopped and somebody comes in right behind them there was a little less than 155 ft I don't know exactly what it was but we would have had an issue with that wall so in discussing it talked to my landscape architecture team and he said oh we made that plaz are much smaller I said well that helps me and you know so we've updated the plan and this is exhibit a19 for rev Plaza this is called sight line exhibit it also happens to show the revised Plaza at um building f so a19 with today's date is entitled sight line exhibit it is dated today and there's two um site lines provided the top one is actually let me start with the bottom one the bottom one really represents what's on exhibit A8 of a vehicle entering the site to see a pedestrian in the crosswalk um and we have about 200 ft of sight distance available now if you go to the top exhibit that is at what point is a second vehicle able to see the first vehicle that stopped waiting for a pedestrian across and that 155 ft is almost to the end of the ramp coming in off of rout 10 so we have probably about 170 ft of slate distance and as more should there be more than two cars at that point you're back far enough in that retaining wall does no longer becomes a impediment to the sight lines so uh and on the right hand side is the profile to show that there is no grading that impedes on the sight lines which is what you can visually see in exhibit A8 um and we will make sure that any plantings we do put along the term line if we do would be low growing they' be just ground cover um and anything larger would be up against the wall you our intent would be to kind of buffer the view of the end of the wall coming to the uh to the the building at so um I think that I hope addresses Mr M's comments questions about that Mr M yes I received the uh by uh email for those plans I received sign had an opportunity to look at them talk to Mr he did note that where the wall was before in fact suici that there might have been a Seline instruction uh I was correct on one one of the exhibits so the fact that that pla is being pulled back uh with benefit uh to providing adequate SI I also looked at the uh ashto roadway design standards regarding the uh related to the radi that are being used when you make the right turn off 10 they come into a 50ft radius compounds with 95 and then 200 at the end before you as you go into the tangent on the road that go through the center of the site the 95 I consider the critical one based on the standards that's a 20 to 25 mph uh speed curve and they adequately meet at least 25 miles hour stopping sight distance with the revision and so I'm satisfied with that and the profile that they drew also shows that that's Ade um and uh as I discussed with Mr Keller and it was Apparent from the exhibit the uh three-dimensional one when they showed the vegetation on the corner as he pointed out I mentioned to him uh just to be on the safe side you don't want to plant anything that's going to be in the closest part of that line of sight or that sight distance uh to the uh corner there so whatever go vegetation goes in should be low and non obstructing but otherwise satisfied with what he's presented sorry um Mr Keller I just can you explain I get that the top one is showing what happens if there's a car waiting at the crosswalk and the bottom one is if there's a pedestrian but why are they both 155 ft because that's the stopping sight distance associated with 25 miles hour so it's it's the same for both correct okay it's assume assuming that the vehicle entering off of Route 10 is traveling at no more than 25 miles hour okay which is based on [Music] what which based upon what Mr Waltz just testified to is the speed associated with the rate the horizontal curvature the road no I just I I thought your testimony was that with the pest it was like to 200 that's what I thought you said well it is from from all the way out at rout 10 so it it exceeds 155 but this the profile is only for 155 because that's the minimum required got it okay thank you else that any questions here is this R going to be posted 25 miles an hour because when you come off a route 10 are you going to be go going 25 miles per hour if a um you're entering into a site I would I don't know that we could post it I mean it would be an advisory speed plate um with a with a curve um warning sign um but it is the safe speed associated with the curvature of the road and that's why I also want to clarify is that stopping sight distance that we used out ashow is based on wet roadway conditions you know theoretically you could maybe go a little faster if you were on a dry road but you could also stop faster because there's greater friction between your tires and the pavement so this is what we designed to um we can sign it but I don't think it's necessary so let me clarify Harold you just said that the curvature of the road makes you do 25 netive of doing 25 radi radi that's proposed the center one it's 95 ft which fits in air PS between 20 and 25 milph okay also the ramp turnout is on an upgrade so you decelerate a little more because you're on an upgrade um in terms of what Leon was suggesting for an advisory speed like a ramp speed this isn't a ramp from a highway onto for example when I take when I come West on 10 when I come here and I get off at 53 you've got an actual Highway rate to come down to the intersection signal this is a turnout for a driveway so there's no need to post the you wouldn't post an invis warning time of the ramp speed it's it's not a formal Highway ramp this is a channelized driveway Eric in your exhibit A8 do not show retaining wall next to building F correct no we do it's just a little hard to see I guess I'm confused if you look very carefully behind the sorry behind the shrubs between the corner of building F and the tree that white uh shading in air is retainable um comment is the Landscaping in this exhibit A8 it's going to have to be revised very clearly in the Landscaping plan that all these shrubs and ground cover with sure height of a foot or less we can we can do that yeah and remember we're going to come back right for final on on on every other building besides building a we'll be back uh also to may not be back I won't be here um also those two trees that you show an exibit A8 again I would note those on the Landscaping plan to be subject to uh field location uh by the burrow engineer um like when I look at that I don't know if those two trees and that purple shrub that you show on A8 possibly uh obscure the view of a pedestrian about to enter that crosswalk not crystal clear to me um and this is so important that those two trees see that purple shrub you yeah up here that's up on in other words this whole corner I think should be subject to field verification um at the time of planning and all the shrubs and ground cover less that's that's fine that's fine I think that's appropriate it's nice to show it in here but you know you got to that's fine now you may not know this yet um in terms of your do application you're not showing a deceleration laner along R 10 eastbound are you no there's an existing shoulder there y so um but I'm still waiting for comments anyone from the public have any questions Mr tell and Mr comments no okay then we can fair game ask questions about last months or last we Tes we're here in Mr is here as well questions Mr testified last time we done still Leon you have your questions sure um Eric could you put up exhibit A9 please A9 remember what it is um it look like this oh that's that's CH a question for then no I do not have a question I do not have a question for you you just want that I went that to I'm glad I asked I'd be through my bag and [Music] [Music] going okay uh the main entrance drive from 202 uh to your site you're not proposing any pavment replacement no Milling no nothing correct um our plans don't show it we've discussed it um Mr Hall and I had discussion last week um so that I can hopefully be prepared for tonight um and I discussed it um with my clients with the applicant um and within the framework of the C the shared access easement between the Waker property and the Stop and Shop property those uh improvements uh will be undertaken so you'll Mill and top course paay that entire driveway uh from that joint just behind that Island on Route 202 um that that driveway out there is shot yeah uh there's massive sinkles C line joints open up across right talking you're talking from the Stop Bar straight across about uh approximately the stop bars from here back there's actually two joints in your exhibit there's one right at that Island and then on the left side of the road right right there yeah okay I have a feeling that was probably when they repaved Littleton Road in the county went partway into the driveway um we we can we can do that okay great thanks um regarding the driveway proposed for phase one only that goes out to Johnson Road where you open up those islands um I don't know if we talked about this or not we did yes about what's the treat that's we're we're going to um at a minimum because remember that it's your lucky day what number that are exhibit 83 dated January 15th four okay so this is the phase one site plan um where uh removing the north south islands where the north south islands where they cut through what we'd like to do because this area is where Building B is and the driveway is going to get at a minimum we're agreeable to patching filling the potholes so that it's a decent wearing surface if necessary to create uh a decent wearing surface will Mill and resurface that driveway I'm only hesitating in the sense of if they come back right away with another building phase then you know it's money that is going out you know down the drain so I assume by then this would be just prior of Co that theant would have idea as to when and if he's going to pull the trigger on phase two right because I mean obviously when this is under construction you know we're going to have trucks running in and everything else we're going to have to go back it's possible that we have to go back and fix some other things because of of the truck traffic um but that would be before c yes yeah so meable to patching repairing at a minimum and add a maximum 2 in Mill pay yes sir prior to a CO for pH correct um now on your demolition plan I call it it's your sheet four yes there's a note there note number seven and it basically says that wherever possible the applicant wants to keep the existing pavement and just do a surface uh mil um I personally think every square of payment on this site is shot and I think all the payment full depth throughout the entire site should be removed and replaced so that note in my opinion needs to go just just drive on that site and look the payment it's 40 50 years old and it's it's gone that was me that's fine I mean we put it in there again solely for if there are areas that we can preserve and just know an overlight that's fine we'll take it um and again you may have testified to this I just don't recall but I just want to confirm the self storage is a 24hour 7-Day week operation generally I mean that's going to depend on on the uh operator but generally they are not 247 they do um restrict access after some period at night and you know I don't know what everyone's a little different um but it would not you can't show up at 3:00 in the morning and and go into your unit the building's lock that would be a phase two yeah that would be that when we come back for that building eventually we can deal with the operator the hours of operation that sort of stuff yeah I understand but you are getting preliminary for the entire site so um but you're right um if you need to amend the preliminary based on you get a specific Opera that has certain needs and we'll deal with the I just thought maybe the applicant knew or has a desire in terms of hours of operation and access it's all driven by the operator okay but you know they generally limit that um last meeting or the meeting before we talked about the sidewalk connection to Signature Place as part of phase two or some other future phase the one that goes through the wooded area correct yes can we add that to the uh the plary site plan for the entire tra we can show an approximate location for that and again and it could be cleaned up and modified as part of any plan in the future correct we've committed to use best efforts to connect with the folks next door and do this but it should be shown on on the we have to negotiate with varus residential right you know on the specifics of that um do you know or does the applicant know how many children would typically attend a 10,000 foot daycare center it depends somewhat on the um age of the children but that type of child care center um has a maximum occupancy of 150 to 160 children again it depends on how the rooms are laid out you know more toddlers the higher the uh square footage per student is so but um that is a reasonable approximation of what it would be for that 10,000 yes did you say 150 to 160 yeah for 10,000 square ft uh under your phase one only um did you break out your soil disturbance perits separately for that I just don't recall no the soil disturbance is for the whole site right but in terms of phase one only you don't know if there's an import or export or you just don't know we did not we did not break it down that way right so again we can handle that under the so disturbance for the entire tract on a preliminary and depending on how much of those numbers you eat up for phase one you might have to modify the so disturbance for future phases correct correct um last meeting or the meeting before there was a discussion about the dumpster enclosure and I just want to go over that again so we're all on the same page um the Burrow's gone to a detail where it's a full brick veneer Mason are with a nice attractive Capstone so that that's going to be your revision to your dumpster detail or details I remember you bringing it up I think it was when Mr DEET was t um our detail does show a brick facade on it um is it full brick or just a brick veneer that I don't know should be a full bre instead of me leing through sheets here we'll agree it's a full thin brick because the rest of the job is all thin brick um it's going to have a blocked wall behind it yeah understood uh I'll defer the board if they're comfortable with me making or Bill making that decision I'm leave dat that's fine but um we canh the it's they make it inol I just we're not going to have an order for full bed de Breck on the job excuse me sir you going to have to come Mr if we did full break that would be the only full brick on this job site that we'd have to order I'm just trying to avoid doing that but it's the same brick they cut it in the factory from ra brick to make the thin brick but it will have a full 8 in solid mey block wall behind it which is good take the brunt of any force and the truck hits it so I'm TR to match the brick of the building yeah we'll pick one of the four brick colors probably the main one that's on the 225 in the building see that's the main brick color for the center we can put that on quick it's just cutting the factory thin can you describe the gate again please what why do we require full bre that's up to this board has instituted about five to 10 years ago starting down here at investor Savings Bank right if you go look at uh City MD they have a full brick enclosure okay so because it's more sturdy it can take the frunt of maybe a truck hitting it that well it's both for structural and just Aesthetics how it looks if the truck hits the dumpster whether it's thin brick or full brick it'll break the brick so it'll actually be easier more easily repaired if we use the thin brick again it's real brick right so it comes as a full brick we order it as a thin brick because they cut it in the factory it's CL fired you're not talking about much of bre there I mean but if anything's going to take the brunt the ballards and the solid blocked wall that sits behind it we fill the cells solid with concrete and rebar so that's what's going to take any grunt of an accident hit if they hit it with a dumpster as they pick it up or back down most likely it's on the inside we don't put veneer on the inside of the dumpster um and most of the dumpsters it would be pretty difficult to hit the outside of it because of where they're placed um we are currently showing for the gates um their uh the frame is 2in galvanized steel tube um with a cedar slots 1x4 Cedar slots attached to the frame I I would suggest um again like cdmd and other uh recent site plans um we've been uh requiring heavy plastic boards that weather Forever on on a steel frame as opposed to any type of wood slats because wood will deteriorate and it breaks easier than these heavy plastic slots Plus have more traffic and it's something that keeps the doors closed as well dump we have some simulated wood on the facade so if you'd like because it's composite material so it doesn't rot if you want we could propose that on there as well so it looks like deposit that won't rot that won't be Infested by bugs that can't be through it um I think last meeting we discussed the EV uh parking spaces let's just get back sorry just something to keep the doors closed but so they don't latch them back all the time and then they they fly open trouble street with do being open that cuses problem I mean some sort of you know they they'll open the gate and then when they close it they don't latch it but there's something that well our details show um pins on either one each of the gates and then there's a receiving sleeve in the concrete so that goes the guy has to do that the driver has to do that yes or the maintenance crew has to come around um we can I'm not sure having a a fullsize gate have a automatic close mechanism because that's going to close on the truck and the truck no it would the driver would have to close it but instead of putting the pin in the ground like you're explaining it would it would keep the doors Clos by itself without the PIN without the driver having to put the pin in the ground okay we'll look at that so how does the board feel about personally I think it should be full Breck we always had problems with dumpsters we never came we know every time we approve something turned out to be crap uh in reality once we went with a full brick um it looks nice and it's maintained now we're sort of going backwards in my mind so that's my boat for bre I I I agree because if we say veneer it's going to be veneer from now on because that's how these things happen how many enclosures are there all together there's eight buildings or seven enclosures I kind of at least I pick up on the applicant's um point of the Aesthetics that the brick is going to match one of the buildings and the main building so I I'd say from a design standpoint there's some I find that re is is reasonable and I would tend to go wrong with that um my thought is that if it's going to put it on the building and then obviously they expect it to hold up I think would be subject to seeing the what the veneer is I think what we're probably barring on examples there's probably some veneers that wouldn't wouldn't hold up well it would be the same veneer that we looked at just yeah it was it was the same thing it would be the same brick correct aesthetically you would never tell the difference I think what Mr Le is talking about is is durability is a thin brick if it gets hit going to stand up better than a fulls siiz brick maybe but they're made of clay they don't have any reinforcing it garbage truck hits it with a dumpster I've seen a lot of them it'll destroy either or it's the block and the Ballers are what's going to protect that dump that's why the gates usually get beat up because they hit the gate and they get them off center and then the you know enges don't work 35 years I've seen a lot of dumpsters but again yes I think we're durability aesthetically you couldn't tell the difference if I didn't tell you was thri because it's made of the same material you'd never know if you didn't watch it go up but is it going to last if someone backs into my point is if they back into it hard enough it's going to wreck the regular brick almost as easy it's going to W thck could be replaced probably faster and easier eclip system they come in they put some new pieces in they glue it back and then they REM it you're done is AER fion with um Mas with mortar well it sits it sits on a What's called the tabs panel so it's a metal panel that's screwed through the block and they have little tabs on the bottom that actually sit like a little seat for the thin brick to sit on which is glued it's a special adhesive but then all the joints are mortared with real mortar just like you would mortar a real brick building with full bed that's why you wouldn't know the face of the brick is the real brick and they motor all the joints just like you would motor a full bed dep brick so by the eye you would never know the difference but if it gets hits by a truck it's going to crack the mortar either case and maybe would crack but it's again it's tight to the block so it's not like there's an air gap between it so I think either brip would get damaged if it starts getting hit by trucks as Mr Keller says the way these are located they're now out in Big Wide Open areas where these guys are going to have a head of steam you know and really start randing themselves into these dumpster enclosures like I've had in other shopping centers something and again if I do a real brick then I actually have to PR thought that's monitary but I have to put a foundation in you know and it's got to go down below the grade with the block and sit on a footing whereas a thin Breck it just sits it get because it gets glued to the wall so it doesn't need a footing you have a foundation for the other block yeah so block is sit so what are you talking about you put it it's the board supression we'll do whatever you want to do does weather have an impact on you point no none at all no because the glue has been tested to zero degrees to me I just installed these last two weeks I have three jobs going where they're able to still put the adhesive on they didn't put the motor in but they put the adhesive on they're good till Zer degrees is it possible to table and allow the final decision subject toing us with any example of it well we we saw the the last me correct it's the same whatever they showed us the same thing just cutting house also too I want to note that on past applications applicants have made request for a brick lookalike veneer and the board did not accept it we're talking about real brick real brick it's been I'm sorry just Center that's that's what we're putting on the buildings and that's what we're asking for the board to consider for the dumpsters the main frame structure of the dumpsters is the 8 in concrete block walls and then the the Brick is for Aesthetics it's not there for structure it's there to make it look nice um and uh there's Ballers on the inside to protect you know an overzealous uh garbage huler from Rolling that dumpster in too far and hitting the blocked walls you know that's why we put Ballers on the inside I mean my perspective is if we made some changes or more recently to have the full work then it would seem weird to go back on that but I am more concerned about the gates I feel like the gates are a bigger concern about the lock mechanism on the Mike do you have any thoughts on it no I mean I I would probably lean more towards in Brick person if if what you're saying is true about the cinder behind and it's just a facing right adhesive and it's if it's tested I'm an engineer so I I look at way to do things better and not necessarily saying that what we have before is not better it's just that to me it makes sense what you presented makes sense me I don't think you're deviating from masonry even if it's a thin brick or thick Brick Mason I don't think you're deviating from Mason I don't think it's going backwards because you're but it's still looks the same as everything that's what okay well let's all think about it and before we get to the end we'll out do you have anything more the um couple of things um I believe last meeting we talked about the EV uh parking spaces and we discussed I know these are Make Ready spaces you don't necessarily have to install them but it makes sense to get the underground conduit in the ground uh before we pave these parking areas correct um and I know there was a discussion about whether that's a site plan jurisdiction electrical subcode official but my point is we go to construction unless it's on the plans it won't get done so I'd like to see the underground conduit to EV charging stations shown on the plans that way well Bill will not have to argue with the contractor what goes in the ground it will be on the site plane are you going to have two one for the first phe and one every every EV space should have conwick going to it and it should go into the building where the uh electrical gear necessary to service that is going to be located at in the building so that's an architectural decision similarly we don't show conduits for the light fixures that is done by the me engineer not by the s civil I can put a big note on the plans that say that lighting conduit and EV charging conduit um are to be installed um well I mean lighting conduit you can't turn the lights on if you don't have the conduit but it's the same thing is we can put a note on the plans that EV conduit uh is to is to be installed as part of phase one at all of the Make Ready spaces I don't know where it's going to go I don't know how big it needs to be you know there still is a is a a planning discussion on the power requirements and everything else so I can put a note on the plans but today sitting here I can't tell you where that conduit it's going to run from now my recollection is we have EV parking EV spaces in the back across the drive a and we also yep my memory hasn't completely L me left me um we have EV back here over up against the building so that's not too big a deal and ALS Al in front so um but where that cond of it runs I can't tell you because that's outside the scope of my services so but I'm happy to put a note on the plants is that also dependent on the type of EV charger you're putting in level one I don't think the conduit would be different um you know it it may be the difference between and I'm just using numbers a two inch conduit and a two and a half inch conduit because a level two charger that wire is probably a little beefier but again I'm not an electrical engineer I try not even to touch de outlets in my house I call somebody a professional that is not me all right as long as there's a not on the utility plan uh use Font about five times your normal size put in a big box so I can't be this so we have preconstruction meeting uh Mr Ryan can say Hey where's the conduit going I need a drawing before you pave the parking lot not a problem because I I know how this goes in the field it becomes a uh a discussion with the contractor but that way um now regard regarding the fire zones ER have you had a chance to discuss the fire zones with the fire department yet I have not no that's Cy plan design waivers that are being requested it relates to striping of the fire zones and and I think I don't want to speak for the board but I believe the board was of the opinion that the applicant should sit down in the fire department and discuss if they feel the fire zone striping is necessary and appropriate so U I think we testify we'll comply with the fire dep whatever do well I don't think the fire department's report discussed fire zones in the report so I want to specifically address that um fire zones are going to be added to the site plate or not I mean based on a discussion and agreement that you'll have with the fire depart resolution but I mean I had a question so do you could we have that taken care of before we you know approve any resolution if if that's the direction that we're going in get what if the fire department is going to be eliminating a couple of parking spaces because they want more more room for a turnaround or something like that uh m chairwoman i mean they've seen the plans they've commented on the plans they did not raise any issues about where we show parking spaces so I think it's a matter of how do they want the um the fire Lanes strike every can is a little different um but my experience with fire departments is if they have a concern about parking spaces they're not shy about sharing that um and uh you know our request is that that is part of resolution compliance um if it materially changes things then we have to return but I don't you know my professional opinion is that they're not going to have us take out parking spaces because they've already seen the plan and they did not raise that concern um in their review but if that were the case you would have to come back right and we're going to come back for every other building after a anyhow so but we're approving the parking and the whole site plan here correct though it's preliminary for the old old thing with the understand and then we have to come back for final for every other sub subsequent phase and again show you that we provide enough parking for any modifications that happen to these buildings when we actually have tenants and everything else you know there are no tenants identified except for white themselves who will be in the 225 build other than that you know it's open to the to the marketpl demands anything else Le yes okay keep going um see ER the two driveways going on to Johnson Road I know you and I disagree on this yes most souly driveway you have a 28 ft wide correct in the Northerly driveway you have a 24 ft wide correct why shouldn't they both be 28 ft wide because the southern driveway let me find the right exhibit I think it's A2 exib exhibit A2 dated January 15th of this year the southern driveway again I apologize um is part of the circulation system through the site the boulevard across Building B up and out to Littleton Road the northern driveway leads into a parking lot so um it's no different in my opinion um as both the site engineer and the traffic engineer as any one of these Drive aisles where the parking spaces are so this is not part of a circulation circulation system um and it's not necessary to be 28 ft wide um you know we did add the sidewalk um out along this driveway to Johnson Road um and you know I don't want to add additional impervious coverage that I don't think provides any benefit to the to the motorist entering and exiting the site well to me that that's a driveway into your site and IT services those three buildings at the corner as opposed to a typical parking aisle which is 24 ft they're both 24 ft and correct I would just think for ease of maneuverability that that driveway should maybe 28's too much can you get 26 but 24 ft is nothing more than a parking aisle it's not in my mind an adequate commercial driveway is that one way or two two-way it's two 12T lights so no different than a public Street I think 24 in my opinion and we have a difference of opinion as Engineers tend to do um I think 24 is adequate um it also allows us to have Landscaping on the south side of that driveway to the drive-thru Lane for building h on the other side we have a we have the curve line we have a sidewalk and then we have a retaining wall and at the top of the wall which is the drive through Lane for building D we have a fence and a guide rail is a sidewalk along side D yeah the the sidewalk it does not show in exhibit A2 the U it showed in the exhibit that I presented along these sides it's on the north side of of the driveway and it's between the face of curve and the retaining wall and that's a drive through around building d as well correct at this point we are anticipating drive-throughs for buildings DG and H and we will be back in Future phases to um discuss those individual buildings and the individual tenants discussion on it I I just have a concern that that's the first driveway and maybe people coming off rout 10 that didn't the rout 10 entrance would be going in there but I mean you can't go straight through is that it leads only into that parking lot that one parking lot in front of building h correct it it serves the parking area um and actually when you you come in you can go go through to either one of these aisles um but it's it's really serving you'd have to come in Jog and go around to go to the other buildings to c g or F whether it's to the South or to the north so um har opinion Harold do you have an opinion yes I heard this uh comment before and considering uh the plan ER discussed I was fine with the 28 24 whps as laid out I mean technically you don't need that extra entrance really right I mean are you anticipating that one of those ten that would be advant like a third entrance for the it does it it better distributes the traffic and does not cause people to drive through parking lots okay you know um it's better um to not have you don't want people you know human nature they're going to get into that you know I want to go to that far end let them do it on Johnson Road and not in a parking lot where people are backing out or there so yes I think it is important to have that that second driveway on Johnson R if I could just add something to that and to what Eric's saying if you didn't have that Northerly driveway 24ot width uh Johnson Road the traffic oriented to this area uh building plats e d and H would be forced to use the left turn lane uh when you come off around 10 uh at that first intersection would increase the uh volume in that area and also increase the cues in the left turn L by providing the Northerly driveway uh on Johnson it allows people I mean if they come here they're going to get to know the site if they wanted to go for example to buildings D and H they would know they could just bypass the right term D in off the 10 come to Johnson and just take a ter here and just split either way to buildings D and H as opposed to making the left with the other lotion driving through and parking lot with the conflicts with people backing in and backing out you know I myself I would use Johnson if I was familiar with but if you were coming in you wanted to go to the drivethru in building D that be pretty yes that would be I mean I don't know that increasing the size of the driveway would would make a difference but it would that I think again people who become familiar with the site um would in that case would probably Comm in off of Route 10 you can reverse the uh the one way then you're you got to reach across your car to get to the drivethru lanes always have to be counter in the States you know in in England or Australia could you would be able to RSE it not the states you want to keep going sure okay um Eric your January 19th response letter uh regards to the Hort yes you said that the applicant is received do approval for the amended flight path correct um is that the one and only Authority that has jurisdiction over that flight path over the flight path yes the uh FAA does not no the FAA approves the helipad itself and its location the flight path is controlled by the New Jersey do division of Aeronautics could you submit a copy of that please yes now obviously as part of that review they the do was sent a copy of uh I don't remember cuz we did it a couple years ago um so so what type of an amendment did you ask for well the amendment no we did we'll send it but the the original flight pass um looking at exhibit A2 came in on a angle from the Northeast across U to the Southwest to the helipad and then the outbound is the reverse of that um and because of the location of building h and other factors that uh flight path was changed to something a little bit closer to east west but not true east west West I don't have a recollection of the specific heading associated with that but it's in the in the paperwork which we can submit my last no it was actually kind of a Northeast it was rotated something on something on the order of about 60° but don't quote me on that I don't remember the exact uh numbers we prepared the flight path exhibit for wer um but it said it was a a couple years ago it was after we started the conceptual planning yes okay U my last comment um and I think this will kind of take care of itself it's really just a comment is your soia control plan shows for the entire site 20 acres of disturbance correct yeah um that's a large land area to be opened up all at once um so my comment in my January 11th letter was to have some type of phasing as relates to land disturbance now we have a phasing plan obviously for phase one we know what that is I think that's just under six acres of disturbance correct but that's something that the board and myself I think should keep an eye on as the future phases come in um I think it'll be okay I don't I can't imagine you're going to phase two is going to be the balance of the entire site but it but it could be but and if it is we'll we'll deal with phasing of land disturbance at that point but I I just 20 acres opened up at one time you're asking for a major event out on Johnson Road in Route 10 in terms of the soil erosion occurrence but again I think the phasing will take care of that I I I think Mr Hall is correct you know phase one is just under six acres um and we have to come back to this board for subsequent phase or phas is um and I don't know what the future will hold but I'm sure we're going to be back more than just one phase so because again remember 1625 building does not go away until 2:25 is time um and at some point we need to figure out what doot is going to um require so that's it yes I there are two fairly quick questions I believe um and this goes back to I think some of your original testimony with regard to the hot box the for the utility um would you agree to a condition that either you choose a dark color or green or you painted a dark color green so is not reflective yeah I thought we had discussed that we would not not in not in the public hearing oh we oh you you said that you were right I knew we had a coners we had a conversation about it yeah we don't have a an issue with um doing something to the you know polished aluminum box so that it does not look like a polished aluminum Bo we will only have one okay we've gotten far enough with our discussions with Southeast Mars that they're they want us to reuse the existing Vault that's up by the 1625 building all of the backflow preventers and stuff that have to be above ground will be in building D in the utility room um the hot box that we will have is going to be down at the Southeastern corner of the site um it will be screened but we will also so um uh treat the camouflage yes we'll camouflage it in some some way okay um and then so another question I have is with regard to the helipad and um I just have concerns that the the you you're going to have a lot of people coming to the site potentially for the first time or who are unfamiliar which is a little different than it is now I would think um and I'm wondering if you're going to have any or fencing to prevent any unauthorized people just going up there or just to alert people that that is what that is that it's a hellad I'll show you it's I mean we would not put fencing up because fencing is is an obstruction and there is a there are two rings around the helipad that you know in the inner one I think it shows on the plan's 80 feet you can't really have anything um and then beyond that is is kind of a buffer zone um I think it may be appropriate I was thinking more like the fencing preventing somebody from walking up not not that they' be fencing at the where the helicopters Landing I or at least signage I think you know we can add we can add signage okay maybe striping or painting I mean you don't think kids are going to want to go they could do it now um invited to the site now yes they are invited to the site now and it'll be near the drive-thru restaurants which you know well it is it is separated from building h by detention Mason so we do have a physical uh separation to that um so if it's it's raised is that what you're saying yes it's ra raised about so high above the parking lot that's adjacent to it I mean before that helipad went in which it was approved around 1990 is after wer purchased the property that parking Bay used to extend through so they just built it you know and cut off the northern parking area from the southern parking area so it's it's you know about four feet above the grade and there are set of stairs that go up to it now um that was what I was suggesting that that be that people the stairs so wouldn't be attracted to skateboarders or no it's I mean it's a really it's flat and it's small um and uh I don't think there's I mean a lot of skateboard I I kill myself but to to skate on that and then jump off four feet onto a parking lot doesn't sound like a lot of excitement I don't know just go to YouTube they're all [Music] [Applause] over those are my only questions okay yeah okay so do you have another witness that's it okay so let's go through the board and you can ask the questions I have a question on phase one construction traffic where is that coming in and out of the area Littleton and Johnson Road for you mean the construction vehicles yeah they would be directed to Littleton Road um if they do go out and it would be towards Route 10 but I the intent is to and I always say the intent because you never can control what a contractor may do um is that it would be towards Route 10 and preferably towards Little to rad we don't want them [Music] Drive uh we don't want them driving through the parking lot either it it's more direct to go out to littl room plus it's a signalized control intersection should be two two I have a couple of questions and some clarification points I think uh if you look at A2 I think the one that's up here probably can see gu when I was looking at this if you were entering the the site from the southernmost entrance on uh Johnson Road and you go into the site and make a right it looks like that's a pretty long straight shot do you have any types of speed bumps or anything along there I'm concerned about potentially people just going pretty fast especially up you know maybe at night going into the um the drive-thru um Etc so just wanted to get some thoughts about that I don't know if I misread the plan well in in phase one I mean um they would come in they would make a right they would make a left and they would come through here there will be a stop sign at the end I mean this is one two three four five six it's 400 ft it's really not when you design if you have a road you want to put speed humps on it um your the minimum spacing on speed hump is about 400 ft so there's really no need to put it in here um within within the parking lot in the full buildout um you know I mean we and again this is something we could talk about in a future phase is we could think we could talk about taking this pedestrian Crossing from Building C towards the helipad and doing that as a a raised pedestrian like we did in front of building a so that you're favoring The Pedestrian um and it creates a you know a speed hump again this distance now take your scale thank you oops so from the circulation aisle here to building h it's a little over 300 ft something we can we can talk about so I mean if you did it that would be the logical place to do it um the thing in a parking lot that you always have to be careful of is not it's not like a speed hump on a roadway where you don't ever go all the way up to the curve line so the drainage flows through I can't do that here so I don't want to create a dam in in the parking lot so but it's a that's a good question let me hold on to this for now I go through okay so when I'm looking at building h and building D um if ideally I suppose if someone is shopping in building h they want to go over to Building C we would not like them to move a car you would expect that they would be walking traversing the parking lot so it looks like in order to go from building h to get to like Building G you would have to cross over the drivethru and two lanes of traffic in order to get to the crosswalk over to building you know to go over to Building G so I don't know if it is worth considering a different way of crossing over from building h to the other side of the lot just something to think about because the only other Crossing is to go by the helipad and I don't know when anybody would be going that far to the left and then cross yeah from H to G um our thought was you go across the inbound the two-way driveway through the parking lot um the reason that we put it on the north side of that intersection is that there's an island there so just in case it provides a refuge as opposed to Crossing two through lanes and a left turn lane and then you get onto the island and if you're going to GES you're going to cross that drive through Lan but that's not an unusual uh occurrence and at that point you know somebody's just picked up their food and they're going to see you know somebody in front of them I think that's the most direct and appropriate rout to take okay I just get a little worried about people coming out of a drive-thru and having to go across that first and then the two lanes of traffic entering so just that was just something I picked up on the on it um another question about um the C I guess they're the islands that are crossing over between the parking lots it doesn't appear that there's any breaks in those islands I know typically what I've seen is Brakes in the islands people tend to go to the easiest way to to cross over and I'm just wondering about does it make sense to have some open areas between the dividers for people to walk through because I know landscaping and all that stuff tends to be really hard to maintain because people are just walking through the bushes because they want the easiest way to get across so I don't know if I'm just missing it on the plans ster I'm not sure exactly where you're talking about because we have brakes in the parking base at key locations we have pedestrian pass across where there's islands and no Landscaping in those islands or just ground cover so I'm clear sure sorry about that 17 one is I'm just looking yeah this you uh yes and so before the street when you go at least I'm on exhibit A2 I don't have that exhibit that you're looking at this is A2 oh it is okay yes um going yeah up from the ruler are there breaks keep going U there's a there's a break in the parking Bay for vehicles here this is a pedestrian route here right we didn't put brakes in here because this part of the parking lot is really for Building B building h may have some spillover down this way okay um but you know this parking here and in front of of H is where this convenience parking is going to be you know what happens is you get e and D are competing for the same spaces so it starts to filter down that's why this whole area from this pedestrian Crossing to building e is going to serve those three buildings and then the area from The Pedestrian crosswalk to the southern driveway is your overflow for th that area and also the parking for the East End of Building B okay okay um going back to our favorite building building a um I know there's been talk about the daycare center being a child daycare center it could potentially be an adult daycare center as well as long as it's permitted under the zoning I I don't know we have not it sounds unlikely but yeah I don't I don't you know um we have not had a discussion or um you know looking for that the child care is more conducive to the office use in the building and also the location of it so would there be changes that would be requested if it's a you know goes from a child daycare center to an adult daycare center I assume the area in the back that Recreation Area we would we wouldn't need that okay or it would be just a much smaller area because it would be more passive outdoor seating areas which wouldn't necessarily have to be in a back especially that the drop off area is gone but Eric it would impact your parking because right now right you're not counting to having a parking requirement for child care centers we did you did even though the municipal land use law says I don't have to we did count it so all of our parking numbers include a parking demand in accordance with the burrow code for a child care center okay we want to be conservative it's in my shared parking analysis as well and then just one more clarification [Music] um um just a clarification on those ushaped Plaza areas are those yeah so I think it was called in the um between the buildings like if you look at uh building F you've got those PL yeah these these plazas yes correct are those I think when um I think my understanding was that there would be some equipment that would be accommodated in there but are those also dining and seating areas as well it depends on the TS they are the plans as they are today that are before the board um have that whole area is just um pavement because again for storm water we took the worst case now we did update the um plaz the plaza for building a it's smaller it's configured differently there are some tables and chairs um at this point we don't know whether there's a restaurant in there or not it wasn't anticipated but it could be outdoor seating yes okay and then we also talked about bicycle racks which I know you guys which we perfect were in the exhibit that I presented two weeks ago thank you yep for the record Mrs ster did listen to the tape and signed certification I did that she did thank you keep saying h p I'm sorry I missed it somewhere along I have no idea where it is oh I'm sorry that oh I'm sorry it's so small sorry yes okay that's good round spot to the south of building h got it um but I have a question going back to the bricks yes what's the point of cutting them in half I know you say it's about the same if anything hits it but I just what's the point record Mr is starts with building a because that's an existing structure if we were to provide full bed depth brick we'd have to design a New Foundation to support it we'd have to put steel lentils across every M re opening across that building when they created invented thin brick technology using real bricks they glue on they don't need to be supported by a foundation and I don't need a steel lentil over every window opening so when you start with that building it's just easier to bring it all the way through because with the new energy code if we do a thin a real brick the walls become massive because we need the man mandatory 2in air gap 2 in continuous rid insulation real brick plus the studs we're talking about a 19in thick wall versus something that's going to be more like 11 in or 12 in thing still means the energy code but if we do a cavity wall full bed b brick we have steel we have foundations and we have much thicker walls okay whichs um when you were talking about the gate you used a word that starts with I think it starts with a b and it's something up it sounded like Boulder or baller could you just tell me what it looks like can you like is it a steel tube okay about between four and 6 in or as much as 8 in in diameter it's filled with concrete it's buried in the ground about 3 and2 ft okay so if you've gone to the Quick Check Yes and seen those green sleeve tubes in front that'ss of ol okay thank you I was reading about them today and I didn't have a picture so you using the word I appreciate just go to the cars from crashing into some building yes thank you you have any questions um you agreed that you're going to redo the whole parking lot pement wise right yes okay um just curious mechanics of trying to that seems to me be fairly difficult how would you implement that with the fact that we have two phases and how would you go about doing that um it's not that unusual I mean um especially for the first phase I mean for building building a um there's nobody in that building so when they finish with the building itself or majority of the building then we would they put the curbs in they they grind up the asphalt re uh level it um inst stall additional Stone where necessary then put down a base course and then top it um so you would do with topping infections as well yeah I mean as we went through the phases um you know it gets easy we going to go back to exhibit A3 that shows phas one phase exhibit A3 phase one anything north of the helipad there is no pavement to say so we're just going to build it brand new um The Building B essentially goes into the area east of building a so again most of that is going to you know be demoed to put the building in and and then it just leaves this parking field um between the existing 1625 building and the proposed Building B so that would at least in part be done as part of building big so it works out in this case really well um we've had some other challenges and and doing it it's a logistics exercise thank you most of my stuff been answered along the way I did have the uh truck traffic question did have the truck traffic question that you answered before um each place is individually metered right each building or space or no water and gas um no well water no because Southeast Mars yeah it'll be I mean they may sub meter it but Southeast moris is going to send one bill or two bills each bill will be individually service brought to each building independent and brought to the landlord room which of those boxes that connect Building E building right those things and then they could be sub from there as the tenants come right same with the gas I you know we're going to do whatever Public Service wants but that's why we set aside those uh utility areas um in each of the buildings I have no other questions um I would like to have a little bit better I think understanding of what we're doing at the grocery store because we talked about cart Corrals and you said they weren't necessary because they're going to it's anticipated that the tenant would hire people to collect the cards I think we be like a phase two issue when we knew the grer at it depends on the operator some of remember this is a small uh food store um some of the small food stores and I'm not going to mention any names because somebody's going to hear that and go oh they're going to be coming here I'm not saying it right they don't necessarily use exterior car Corrals in the parking lot um if the tenant that chooses to come here wants that then we have to discuss that with you it would lose four maybe six spaces um because you're going to do them back to back um and they're going to be fixed you know it would be more well they'll be fixed so they're not sliding around the parking lot like they do with the Stop and Shop by my house in Sparta um where they move from parking space to parking space um and um but it it depends on who the operator is and who you know the tenant so um we're just asking to defer that to when we come back for final for building C and explore that with you and we could have prary that point to depending on what right but in terms of your parking analysis it's going to work because we've gained some spaces we call by building got theop area so the M Works correct I mean it worked before we CH we added some spaces um especially when we look at the it parking Generation Um as opposed to the the burrow code but it works under the bur Cod as well and we'd have to update that to say okay we lost six bases here um you know um does it still work or did we find six faes besides the one that we found up by getting rid of the drop off area so so that would just generate a new variance at that time right they would have to apply for straight up parking R also with regard to parking um there's no dayare and and I know everybody's hoping there is it's certainly you know could we add parking in the rear could we bank that area for parking in future parking you mean the area for the play areas actually that's part of the existing parking lot so if we don't have a daycare you would gain X number of spaces in that area by you know which could be land banked however you want to do it to be conservative and the intent of the applicant is for a daycare um so we've taken it out it's properly sized for a a daycare center if it doesn't go in those spaces could would remain and how about some signage to maybe encourage people that are working in that building to park in the rear like wi employees or since they the major tenant in that building and two of the people are here um I I think there will be a you know especially with a retail Center you always ask the employees to park in the back or in the furthest reaches um it's more difficult when it's a fully retail Center but when you have a mixed building it's a little bit easier to control employees except for the sales person of the month that's right they get that special SP up front I I think it's easier to really you're closer to the building and getting in and out if you're in the back I think but that's just okay um I I think that's all my questions yes just one follow question since you're applying for final for phase one the uses in the area that you show in your architecturals that's what's going to be approved if you come in for a building permit and you change those tenants or uses or Square footages would that trigger trip back to this board for phase one for phase one fine if what Chang the building changes not the building if the uses change or the square footages of any particular use change as since you're out you're getting final for a very specific set of architectural plans if something changes in terms of use and square footage is that a trip back that is c for I would suggest the answer is no the uses are permitted assume that and the parking ratios still work I don't you need to come back because tenants can change over time come back what if the parking changes if the parking Chang requires a variance that would be reason to come back well if you just need one more space that's an additional parking VAR but I think that our case here you can help me we have so much parking available phase one correct the parking the parking demand as we've calculated for building a is not satisfied by the parking that is currently behind the building in front of the building and immediately to the side of the building we I testified for the fact that the parking demands would be met by again using exhibit A3 that the parking demand for this building based on the burrow code would involve using some of the existing parking spaces on lot 45 where building a sits on lot 4501 so that would require a shared parking degree that's what condition we have so much extra parking yeah so I mean you know if it's a handful of more spaces then it's just there' be a handful more spaces yeah I guess I guess what I'm getting at is the applicants requesting final site plan approval for building it you have the architectural plans you have a certain impression as to the tenants the use and the floor areas for each of those what the applicant is asking I believe is they want the ability to change the tenants the uses and the square footages without coming back to this board as long as the board's comfortable with that that's no tenants say that's very typical I I know you have no tenants but you have uses specified on your floor ples correct yeah yes okay so let's say let's say one of those uses you want to change from a retail to a restaurant does The Bard want to see that this is final site plan well that would change that would change other other well it will change parking requirements and things like that right yes it's just been my experience when when a board issues final site plan approval and you have a set of architectural plans that you approve that's what you're given that's my experience with fin well have you have any thoughts on that I think if they're going to I think they only have they only have to come back if it's going to require a change what they're building or going to require VAR because they need they're insufficient on parking or insufficient on something else is a change in the building square footage of a space well what if a retailer wants to use two of those spaces instead of one that's doesn't change the parking analysis retail to retail right whe they're selling shoes or selling suits do matter but I had asked what if you don't get a daycare center I had asked that last time and it's something else could be retail it could be retail because it's permitted um you don't have to come back because nothing is changing that's our view because the building is the same the foot we're assuming the footprint is not going to change the building is the building and if if the uses are permitted we'll assume that as well then the issue is is there sufficient parking to provide the use put those different uses the answer is there plenty of parking for phase one so I don't see any reason to come back to say we're changing to a different retail kind of comes out in a watch is there a real life example that we should be concerned about I just want to hear Andy's answer there are there are some municipalities in the ordinance has a requirement to get S plan approval just on the change in tendency change in use um even if it's permitted um so it's it's something that the you know norain couldn't require I think we're we're asking a hypothetical here what if they do something will they require will they require to come back here that's going to require on exactly what they want to do in the future and looking at your ordinance you we're kind of making hypotheticals with with not knowing what they're going to want to do nor exactly what ordinance provision is going to apply and you're trying to tie that and I think that's a little difficult so just get back to my question if if the square footages change in building a from where they are now they talking about square footage the building itself is not total square footage would not change you have two 5,000 foots and now you want to make 175 2000 com back or not I don't believe that trigger required in the in their ordinance for them to come back we do have a minor site plan changeing use process checklist D D1 and D2 I I just want the board to be aware you think you're approving these floor plants with specific uses and specific floor areas is that what your expectation is to see get built in the field or do you want to see it if they change that yeah just come some un wieldy to come back I mean even the office space we detailing they change right now we're sh many off the office num the configuration may change we going to come back and show we have 12 offices with 16 if the square footage the same no no if if if your office space where footage doesn't change I don't care but if you're in your first floor and the daycare center goes away and becomes a restaurant in my opinion this P that's just me I would agree with that I I I would agree with that too or it doesn't have to be elaborate if but straightforward as you're saying it would be one meeting one well it take several months to get here for the one meeting we've always no you're already I'm not suggesting you're not but the file the application get it reviewed get the in complete get the notice get hear it doesn't happen in one month that's several months to do thats could be very unwielding in terms of getting tenants who want to get in right away of course there they want to go we have to go through a process to change you know the guy who selling shoes selling something else it just seems like you know retail retail I retail to retail is fine Gare Center to a restaurant is that the kind of change you want to just let happen or do you want to see that that's what we would want to see yeah I mean the second and third story St second and third story is All office right how that's configured divided up I don't know and I don't care but if the Second Story Goes half off all office to half office and half gym the board want to see that yes I think we yeah yeah I mean obviously the footprint of that building is not going to change no and and I don't think it would matter to the board if if one space was divided into two for retail or two spaces were combined into one for retail if the daycare said became retail or if the daycare was going to be retail okay so the issue with the restaurant that's kind of the trigger restaurant the gym that well we already have a gym in noted in the building that's on the floor plans already is there's a fitness center in there I think it's 5,000 sare ft that's already factored in to the to the plan process there is a minor cycle change of use --------- [Music] discuss with engineer in the plan um about this requirement and then there and there is a requirement more PL the ordinance was amended 2019 to require um minor side plan approval for changing um there is a mechanism for the for the for for an applicant potential applicant to seek a waiver of that requirement and that can be done by the burrow engineer as a a series of Standards by which to make that determination but in order to make it crystal clear the proposal what the board could do is that um the one of the conditions be if there is any proposed change in use the applicant must provide um that to that information to the burrow engineer prior to seeking permits for that change of use um for the burrow engineer to determine uh the need and whether there is a need for minor site plan or other approv understood okay perfect thank you very much any other questions from the board Prof Mr no okay so we'll open this up to questions from the public y I don't know just for my understanding did we settle on 24ot of the roadway Jason I'm so sorry I can't hear you did we settle on the 24 roadway we didn't settle on the brick I don't think but we did settle on the 20 the 28 and the 24 correct yes H yeah but we didn't settle on the brick you want to do the brick now do you no I I Mr Kelly said we wereat but we might as well get it done yeah no big issue really well I think the issue that they explained was that if they put fulls siiz brick on the buildings it would I know I know that but if they did the building it would require a um Foundation but you're going to have to do a foundation anyhow to build this enclosure we know with the board's preference half brick or full brick for these Dum enclosures whatever your preference is will Frank full brick or half brick full brick I'd go with ban in design criteria matching that would be my basis for making my decision we're doing full or half well I would go for full but the half's happen could you could you put the half in phase one and if it didn't work change for two no no no well I think either way they've got to maintain it if they hit the half brick or the full brick I've seen plenty of full brick enclosures and nobody repairs them so I don't know what the requirement for repairing is the good news is the owner is going to be at this site yeah and when he's in it's probably easier to repair the the half brick and fact it's consistent with the design that go with the architect half brick it is half brick it is okay so now we will open it up to the public for questions comments if you have a question come forward um I think you'll have to use maybe you can use right there okay state your name and address Frank mang grai 35 janway place ples I discussed here once before about EV parking sites I just see this location as a very favorable location for EV charging I you have to speak into the microphone okay I just see this side is very positive situation for EV charging and I think it could be beneficial to wer as well for example Tesla puts in supercharging locations at people's property they pay for the equipment they maintain it they charge the people and they give the property a percentage of the product there is not a Tesla Supercharger site they're 8 Miles six miles and six miles not a single one in Mars pen there is a real need have one right here and they would they you'd have to agree to it right and how many and and and what but it would now bring in people from a farther distance since I have such a car and use it a percentage of those people get out and look to do something like buying something get a cup of cof get a sandwich things like that so it it draws people in and since they're required to have 32 EV sites maybe having of would be mutually [Music] beneficial anybody want to take that I think every this last time yeah I mean the law doesn't specify what type to provide I I would ask you know we we'll follow the law um and if the applicant finds a favorable deal for whatever whether it's Tesla superchargers some new technology whatever they should have the ability to do so because that's permitted under the law but we don't want to be can't commit to it now we're coming back to many more times I suspect over the years to come so we're going to be here next year the year after as this unfolds the technology may change to make change and we can deal with and and you're only required to make them ready correct you're not required to actually install the correct so we're complying with the law as the point but I think it's a good point obviously technolog improving now that all the locations of the underground war is going to be located be easy to make those changes I would take it right well there'll be a note in the plan saying it's going to be are there any other questions anyone from the audience no okay well then we will uh close that portion of the meeting of the questions and uh have some deliberation what does the board perhaps we would ask the attorney to draw up a resolution of approval or I think that's that's something that we should consider and should do and there we need a bunch of conditions I think Leon has enumerated a number of them uh and maybe people have some other conditions uh that they think should be in there but have to see the draft and and the attorney works with our planner and our engineer over the conditions that we have talked about I have just one thing that I think should be in there and that um the conservation easement where the pond is should be cleaned and when I say clean the dead branches and other debris that's in there a landscaper can take out and should take out because it's a mess and that should be in as one of the conditions very simple thing to do just to do it it's important anything else just with the truck traffic or the construction traffic just utilizing 202 Johnson wrote out the m okay they could come in Johnson Road but not go to going out the back way Leon did you have something yeah there's one condition um I've discussed it with the Andy in the past I discussed it with Mr Keller recently and that is the timing of a couple of Outside Agency approvals we touched on this somewhere during the hearings and that is at what point in time does the applicant have to obtain the NGA do access per um he's asking for the board to approve phase one final without that permit in the board's hands I believe that's what you're asking yes that's the pending application that's correct and I also believe there's another permit that relates to the Future phasing and that is the NJ dtwa permit which is the sewer extension permit at some point in time this development will generate a flow in excess additional flow in excess of 8,000 gallons per day and that triggers the need for the NJ DP tww permit um I don't know if I have the answers here tonight but I'll to speak to Andy about it Andy can discuss it with Mr mman but there's going to have to be some very clear thought put into at what point in time as relates to the phasing this project are those perms going to be required to be submitted from the applicant to this board to allow a certain phase to advance um not phase one but following phase one some some undefined future phase um at first I thought whatever the next phase is you have to have these permits in your hand but I've discussed this with Mr Keller and that may not be true um but again you have to stop and think about that uh driveway coming off a rout 10 when does that become imperative as relates to the Future phasing of this development it may be the next building and may be four building from now I don't have a clear answer answer but I'll have to work on that condition with the ND Liz and I'm sure Mr Melman will have some think it's a fa point and I think you can't really answer it now because the future phases are undefined could be one building could be several buildings I think as we come in with those phases this will be an issue from the CER we position with you at that time whether we need to deal with you at that time or not agree with or not but we would make take a position relative those issues that and and you're not saying I think you're not saying that that Building B will be the next phase it could be building D and H exactly we're just telling you building phase one as you've seen phase one and there sort of conceptual we expect it will change over time frankly work with us on that a collaborative process right and I mean if we're talking do approval if it was a building in the back it might not yeah for instance need it the building in the back is self stored just low traffic generator low sewer demand or as an example okay it might not need it but again we'll have to analyze that when come that comes in because the point I'm trying to make is that that uh Route 10 driveway all that traffic is going to be put on your Municipal streets so to be very keenly aware of as we advance into the future bases um other other than those two approvals the standard language about all other agency approvals have to be in hand for preliminary and phase one final right we have County we have County plan board you have cd right we'll file Ford for phase one for phase one Southeast mors Southeast mors is we're already into that we don't have to go to the D Southeast Mars has what they call a master permit so we just deal with them for even if we were building the whole thing we don't have to deal with DP on water thankfully thank God did you hear that okay I think also I want to add to my resol Mr Harold malz his comments are Incorporated yeah there's going to be several a lot there's fire department um again there's going to be a long list of conditions here we certain expect that so this for the record we're being carried now to March 18th is that correct the next meeeting yes March 18 730 this no further notice no further notice but you will extend the time well to the end of March I will absolutely to the end thank you very much excuse are we voting to get a draft approval correct we are we will will yes we do need to take a vote on on having the attorney prepare a resolution of approval we have a roll call vote on that just just for the record to what you're approving is the minor subdivision application preliminary site plan for the entire track and phase one final what about the Varian the variances the design waivers the soil disturbance permit and the approval to demolish a building in Access 100,000 I think we have a sec do we have a motion I mov it and second second and could we have roller call please and was it may car yes okay mrar yes Mrs Kelly yes m yes Mrs mclusky yes Mr Kelly yes mayor car yes and Mr Dre yes thank you very much thank you thank you that gentl maybe one day thank you everyone for your time does he use it a lot every day he uh no not oh he he flies more Recreation so not necessarily to this SP Recreation it's just a lot those pictures Okay so we're now at the committee [Music] reports here no report thank you thank you reach out a reach out a thank you master plan Review Committee new business okay I have new business I did send out a list of the meeting dates and a list of the planning board members and the uh professionals I very nicely asked all the professionals to look and make sure everything is perfect and they all emailed me back but I would like you to look at that list I know that Mr garaga I have to wrong I will change that but everybody else email me if there's any change okay thank you my last name semicolon my address I don't have oh I see I have Mars you have a semicolon in the email address [Music] Kelly we can do it later don't worry about it okay do we have just one thing am I needed for the March meeting of mic no oh no I about executive tonight that's am I going to be to the mark meeting I don't think so I think I can get you a copy of the resolution if you're happy with I have all the conditions okay very good thank you so much good night um okay now we have old business I I planning board resolution 24-5 resolution authorizing CL s pursuant to the open public law be it resolved by the Mars Plains planning board in the county of Mars and state of New Jersey on this 12th day of February 2024 as follows one the Mars planning board shall adjourn to Executive session in accordance with njsa 10 4127 being the open public meetings law in order to discuss potential litigation two it is not known at the present time when the matter under discussion will be disclosed three the mar PLS planning board shall convene following the executive session to consider other matters on its regular meeting agenda for this resolution shall take effect as provided by law don't move wait for second second