##VIDEO ID:75hhM8d1cYI## I call to order of the regular meeting of the C moris planning board for October 7th 2024 the legal notice required in accordance with the open public meetings act has been satisfied and a statement certifying same will be exed please rise to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all call the RO yes Mr Mr Baron here Mr flowers here M Murphy here Mr Ben here Mr quillin here Mr here Mr B here Mr Warner here M Keller here Mr SL here in Santiago here okay thank you uh before we start with the meeting I'd like to pause for a moment of silence on this October 7th anniversary back on last year remance of all the lives lost and still in January in Jeopardy so please moment silence thank you we can move on with the uh reading of the or the approval of the minutes from august 19 yes August 19th um anyone have any comments Corrections issues with I have a motion to approve I move we approve the minutes uh just I guess two things I'm sorry Sor sorry uh I think Bill and I were not actually present so we'll move into the absent column and abstain from the vote and neither was I that's okay we can still vote on okay was I here well let's see you were there say you were there look familiar to you you were Don it says you were present as well but you're not you I was not okay I stand corrected there was a correction okay we have a motion do we have a second second made ation M Mr all in favor I and a handful of abstentions okay uh so the agenda there are two applications here but I understand we're only hearing one we have a and I think if I may Mr we're carrying the one right yes yes so we we actually have Council for both applications here this evening so maybe she could speak to it but it's my understanding uh that we're carrying the CHC Madison project owner LLC application pbo4 d24 to is it October 21 yes uh the uh 7 excuse me 700 p.m. the same location and I believe that will be with with uh further notice uh but U maybe missley can explain that with the chair's permission yeah that is that is correct there was a there was a notice inadvertently omitted to the county so we had to uh we had to re notice and and include the county so and and that'll be Ren notice both publication and CER and certified mail to everyone so with full Reen notice for October 21 it's already on its way so I apologize to those and get two notices but thank you so uh then introduce the 524 yes Mr chair um the next application is ba524 more Market Place urban renewal LC for a major sub division block 10401 Lo 301 191 East Handover Avenue in the RDP Zone applicant proposes a major subdivision to create one additional lot and Mr chairman if I may with respect to that application uh I did have an opportunity to review the notice found the content to be sufficient and found it to be timely served uh both by way of certified mail September 25 and published uh in the official newspaper on September 24th both at least 10 days prior to this evening so we do have jurisdiction to hear and decide this application tonight thank you yes thank you good evening everyone Linda hurle with the firm sure of rer Danzig on behalf of the applicant um as Sonia mentioned we're here tonight for the an approval of a subdivision application to create two lots from the exis Mars Marketplace site um this application is similar very similar to the application that was before you approved um last September which subdivided the uh the Leal building and and a portion of the of the site uh this proposal is to carve out um what is on known on the plan or is commercial G um and a portion of the parking area as well um this proposed new lot will be continued to be owned by the applicant in this instance um the Lial application as you may recall was a minor subdivision this one has been classified as a major um solely because of the timing of it your ordinance um as many do say that if you bring a subsequent subdivision application within three years of your of a minor it's classified as a major to prevent a large you know large property from being subdivided into multi Lots by way of one minor after after the other without notice potentially to to Residents so um I'll say it's a technical major um similar to the to the Leal subdivision um it's really just lines on a on a piece of paper and um there'll be no physical changes to the site um in connection with the the prior subdivision the applicant had um recorded a cross easement agreement um that agement in place and does not need to be amended or changed it contemplated potential future subdivisions so the um the parking and and everything that was taken care of in that agreement remains in in effect and would apply with respect to uh to these New Lots um and with that we have one witness tonight our engineer um Anand bot who's been the engineer of record for the application uh since I think the beginning so call a non unless there's any other initial questions or or issues hear from him and then we can sure and Mr chairman I'll with your permission I'll swear them in as well as our board professionals Mr Slate and Miss Keller if all three of you will raise your right hand do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you all thank you Mr go ahead here we're g to share this just repeat your qualifications again sure uh good evening Bo members my name is Anan but I'm with Arna engineering I'm principal at Arna engineering I have a bachelor's and master's degree in civil engineering and a professional uh engineer in state of New Jersey since 2003 my license is in good standing and you've appeared before the board before I have been thank you yes I will accept thank you if you would ex um describe for the board you prepared the subdivision plan that was submitted as part of this application correct I did and if you would explain to the board the uh subdivision that's proposed uh as as M Hurley uhley suggested or stated there are two lots already existing at moros Marketplace right now one is lead the lot one is the overall uh 3.01 lot which is 16.8 Acres uh plus or minus and that is being subdivided into two lots one is for Burlington which is read commercial G uh which is 1.52 acres and the remaining sorry remaining lot is 15.36% one uh I'm sorry the remaining lot is 15 362 Aces 362 thank you yeah uh Sonia can we have can we have exhibit one yeah thank you uh that's the exhibit which we have submitted uh as part of the application process we uh as noted uh the portion in again hash area in this middle area the commercial G is that 1 Point 52 Acres of Burlington area the rest of the site which is which includes the commercial a b CD and I uh including F will continue to remain in blot number 3.01 which is going to be 15.3 62 acres uh lead a lot has been subdivided so this is very similar to lead lot asley suggested uh number of parking spaces which are included in the Burlington will be shown as part of the slot uh of 1.52 Acres however with the reciprocal easement on for the entire side all the parking spaces will be available for uh for all the uh occupant or the patrons to use I'm sorry to interrupt Mr chairman but can you just give us the uh uh exact title and date of the plan that's up as exhibit A1 absolutely uh it's called major subdivision plan drawing number cs202 and that's dated uh September 3rd I want to zoom in let me see September 3rd 20124 okay thank you sure uh so again as I said everything remains in place we have been in front of the TCC meeting uh with Mr Slate uh and Mr Philips there uh we have received the TCC comment letter uh and one of the comment was related to to uh the how it's shown and the describ on this plan it was recommended that we show a colored version of this plan so that board can clearly make out where the New Lots a new lot is going to be where is the where the existing Lots going to remain so the next plan which is exhibit A2 and that is dated uh is in the same name major sub sub division plan CS 202 with the revision date of today October 7 2024 that would be exhibit A2 and the only revision is the addition of the color to it correct correct uh so we just wanted to kind of clarify for the board uh that the the orange lot is the larger lot to remain the blue lot is the lead lot which was subdivided last year and the green which is in the middle is the Burlington lot which is application for okay else um do you want to go through the rest of the TCC the TCC comments were again uh the three comments which were again the only comment which was buring a lot color was the adding the color and there was a uh on the title block there was a number of lots which were carried from the original application so uh it the number of lots which is the lot number 3.01 3.06 and 3.07 has been modified uh which is at the where it says moris marketplace right underneath that and for the record we did receive two MOS from the fire department Y and neither one had any officially 306 the new one Le 306 and the new one is 307 not 301 the Leal is 301 is the remaining ising lot yes we do still need to confirm that it will be 307 with the tax assessor but um It's 301 Remains the remainder and it is 306 believe so we believe it'll be 307 but we do need to confirm that and that was comment number four of Mr Phillips September 30 202 24 TCC meeting summary memo correct okay and uh the colorization was that uh comment number two yes okay and comment number one I apologize I didn't ask the chair's permission but since I'm rolling Mr chairman thank um I think it's speak now or forever the the the uh the filing of a Subdivision map is required obviously you'll stipulate to that correct that is correct okay and there's also a comment with respect to all outstanding non-residential development fees uh as well as any other fees that may be outstanding or may become outstanding uh how do you propose to address that those will be uh we agree to a condition that those will be paid prior to the signing of the subdivision plan uh PRI prior to uh this board or its chair or designated uh uh uh officer sign signing off on uh any subdivision deed or plat correct correct y okay and uh they will those fees and funds will be paid in full prior there to correct prior to the signature yes correct okay thank you anything else War thank you Mr chairman I'm done rolling for now Mr SL uh I would just add that uh the uh Township surveyor would review the final plat when it's submitted to ensure it has all the information in it and then uh do we also have to include language maybe this is something that was covered with the financial agreement will need to be updated just to reflect this separate lot and I have no other and that that's the financial agreement with respect to the Redevelopment since this was a Redevelopment project right would you stipulate to those conditions as well councelor yes thank you board members any questions comments I have a few questions uh the the first one is just what is the overall purpose of this subdivision from the point of view of the applicant what does this accomplish the I believe you said the applicant would retain title to the subdivided law cor plans to retain title yes um potentially for fi separate financing purposes it could it could be separate ownership that's not the intent right now at least but um for separate financing Andor ownership and I guess my next question might be more for Mr Warner which is the distinction between a minor subdivision and a major subdivision and as a member of the planning board maybe I should know this but what are the different requirements uh for a major versus a minor subdivision and are these different uh do these cause different levels of review for us uh all good questions as always the the the the um a major subdivision uh generally this would be a minor subdivision from two lots to one um our particular ordinance and Miss Keller is probably pulling it up right now and can answer it better than me from reflection but recollection but uh um the reason this is a major as opposed to a minor is to void what I sometimes and others refer to as creeping minor subdivisions where you get the serial minor subdivisions one after another after another and someone Avo avoids a major subdivision review by doing it that way um minor subdivisions don't don't always require the same notice uh and the like so you could see why that why we are uh as always on top of things and have an ordinance that prevents that from happening and I think it's you're allowed one minor so to speak every three years or else we're GNA assume you're doing the creep and and and considered a major um now that said maybe I could defer to miss Keller to explain the distinctions between major and minor and the magnitude of the review they're relatively subtle in my yeah so essentially you know the the the municipal land use law provides for minor subdivisions minor site plans major subdivisions major site plans however and it sets the noticing requirements for each of those however it's up to each individual municipality to decide how you want to apply those so in moris Township you know for example um a minor subdivision typically is anything that's you know not more than three lots um doesn't have any new streets typically minor things um however you know if you have a minor subdivision that doesn't have any variances associated with it you don't really you don't always have to I believe you don't have to do any kind of public notice you don't yeah under the ml under the ml so that's that's they're kind of there sort of like two separate like parallel but not totally combined tracks which is the ml setting the notice requirements and the municipality um defining what's major and minor so per the ml however you do have to notice for a major subdivision so you know while typically they are you know more major projects things with new streets more Lots Etc the um the township has the ability to you know say that something like this where if you are you know proposing it another subdivision within three years of one it cannot it is then then a major subdivision because that way you will have to notice for it and so what you know what Steve's talking about with you know the creep subdivision creep would be if you have this property and you all of a sudden and this isn't just for this lot in particular this could be any lot and you and it meets the requirements for a minor subdivision you don't need variances but then you know one day you look up the neighbors realize that it's now six lots and they haven't gotten a single notice in the mail because they were all minor so that's really the purpose of classifying this as a major subdivision okay um and just just just just just the last thing just say quickly is that in terms of the specifications you know like the completeness checklist the development checklists things like that for a major subdivision are more comp complex because it's created for a more complex application things like Street profiles Etc that Jim will typically review however in something like this where none of those things are happening you know the applicant can request waivers from those like they do with anything else so from that standard as long as none of those are part of this application which they are not it doesn't really change the board's review okay that was very helpful thank you I would also just mentioned that a minor maybe this something you were just said can be filed by D yes just a description of the lot you know can be filed to create a lot with major formal file back be created more involv so I do worry a little bit about creeping minor or major subdivisions because it seems like we do have a a creep under way here well we may not and I may and and Council for applicant correct me if I'm wrong or better yet confirm that I'm correct uh when I say this it's my recollection uh that uh this is it for this applicant uh they're limited uh to this I guess second uh minor that has become a major uh subdivision Visa the financing purposes it was lle and Burlington and no more as I recall that is correct there had been some discussion early on when we were be before we came in for the the uh Leal light I'm sure I always say it wrong the Leal subdivision um as to how many there might be and it was agreed that or understood that after that we would be back for one further and that's this one there no further but nothing stops you from making another application the Redevelopment agreement the Redevelopment plan specifies only to yeah Limited in the agreement yeah Redevelopment agreement Revel Redevelopment plan does allow for this type of financing subdivision but the re and you know because it is a Redevelopment project um there's an extra layer of protection for between the township and the redeveloper and it it's part of that Redevelopment agreement I believe is where this is codified or will be codified that they cannot do any more um subdivisions after this we have the they' have to amend that if they wanted to change anything we have the ordinance that prevents the creep so to speak by virtue of uh converting the minor to a major for more further review and then we have the the Redevelopment agreement and the and the understanding as between the township and the uh applicant owner of the property that this is it okay so if something more would needed that would have to go to the township committee for an amendment of theel correct they would have to amend an agreement before they could even apply to the board okay all right good thank you thank you Mr chairman um I know this was discussed with the last subdivision um but I want sure I get it right so the services since this could be sold as a separate lot to a separate entity the trash services night lights or what other services um snow removal how will that be maintained um even if it's sold to somebody [Applause] else sorry um that's all covered in that's all part of um the reciprocal easement agreement that was recorded with respect to the the entire property um simultaneous with simultaneously with or as a condition to the Perfection of the Leal subdivision so that um it'll continue to operate as just one shopping center so anyone who purchases this property will have to agree to the property is the it runs with the land the property is subject to this agreement so anyone who purchases the property takes it subject to that to that agreement okay thank you so the trash removal area that's designated now will continue to stay there and it'll no one will notice the difference correct correct and if anybody wanted to change I mean that would be a site plan change so someone would have to come in and and get permission from this board to change the site but nothing will change okay there'll be no yeah and I neglected to mention we do have a uh we always have a condition of approval uh that all prior conditions of approval not inconsistent with this approval will remain in full force and effect and I assume the applicant will stipulate to that as well yes yeah no I'm sorry what all prior all prior conditions uh of approval will remain to the extent not inconsistent with this approval if it's granted uh would remain in full force in effect yes anyone else yeah thank you Mr chair I have a couple quick questions um so there is no presentent intention to sell this subdivided mod board approves it however in the future if it is sold um will be uh will there be an easement that will allow the larger lot uh users of the larger lot to stores with those lots to use the parking so that's all part of the reciprocal easement agreement it speaks to parking access um there's an association that will that handles maintenance and trash so it's yeah yes it's it's and it's so it's already in place it was reviewed by um Mr Warner prior again it's part of the um the first subdivision um was recorded and so it will apply to this this um lot as well okay and then my second question it appears that there are fair number of um parking spaces that would go with this new subdivided lot does this trigger the need to have additional DV charging stations not the this this is technically a separate legal so the Redevelopment plan that allows for um the subdivision is specific in that if if if the lot is to be subdivided it doesn't have each individual lot does not have to independently comply um the TCC asked us in connection with the Leal application and again just to show for informational purposes um how many parking spaces would be quote unquote you know part of the new lot um and we've done that but we don't need a variance um because of any any um any deficiency again because the intent is the shopping center is Contin is going to continue to be operated and run as a as one shopping center and the cross easement gives everyone the ability to to park and access so um it doesn't change anything so it doesn't make any changes doesn't trigger any additional EV um and in the number of parking spaces again it's looked at as through the Redevelopment plan as a whole as opposed to individual Lots okay thank you I I I I agree agree with everything um she just said I just would also add you know that this is um anything that either this owner whether they keep this whether they sell it to another entity any changes that they would make to floor area to the parking layout anything you know even like we just mentioned the location of the trash closure all of those those are would trigger site plan approve site plan amendments so you know no changes are you know this is really just on paper for now um and all of these protections like the easements are there to ensure that there that everything keeps running the way that it has been anyone else okay I will I guess note for the rec that anything no no I have nothing further there are no members of the public here so not I don't have to open up for public question public comment so we can proceed I guess somebody there's a brief summation from I don't have any further I don't I just want to make sure I understand that um 36 is confirmed for Lial but 307 you're still working with the tax assessor so approval we'll have it stated as 307 for now and we'll be revised if the tax assessor comes up with something subject to the tax assessor's approval and whatever lot the tax assessor wants it to be is what whatever the number yeah okay so I make a motion that we approve the application second I'll second follow R sign Mr flower yes Mr Barrett yes M Murphy yes Mr Beno yes Mr quillin yes M yes yes thank you thank you thank you very [Applause] much okay moving on okay then the only other item of business is the review of the calendar sent that out and she had a couple of questions on the DAT I don't she made the notes there's one that would be so this is officially St Patrick's Day I have no objection to St Patrick's Day so I don't know Mr Quinn said it was a high holy day so I don't know how about anyone else I have so uh the sucot eve what is that it's a harvest holiday it's not a high holiday but it's close to high it's a and and uh obser and choose would be unable to be here which means if an applicant was a Reser JY they would not want that even for example I have I have it in another municipality uh that evening was this year was going to be scheduled um a house of worship wasn't so that group will not be scheduled for that yeah well then I would Le rescheduling yeah resched that we should not do it on the so cancel the October 6th that would leave us with only one in October can we do two September or November if need I'm not sure weing as an option meeting but could be due to in September instead September due to the holiday it's kind of that's bunch of holidays in there yeah September we have we keep it in if not a problem for it's up to the board well we're um I guess my question on cancelling the date would be is that going to be in the middle of us having to continue work on our affordable housing are we going to be in the middle of something having to do with our master plan review you know we have to project right out a year and say are we going to need that date I mean right now things are pretty slow but that doesn't mean it's going to I would say to keep it in and if we get closer and yeah maybe keep it in and then cancel it cancel right place back Mee if need be if appropriate yeah I think I that's probably so keep the October 6 keep it keep it in and we'll cancel it if we can okay depending on whatever our workload is at that time okay because we may have several things coming at us that we okay but so what does that mean so if we so on the one hand we're we were about to cancel it and now now we're not because why because we can't predict our workload at but a minute ago we cared about it right we cared about not scheduling this because observ it's a Jewish holiday yeah but now with this other thought suddenly we're like oh forget it we're gonna keep it I'm I'm gonna say I don't believe our school district considers this a a Jewish holiday for time off for the kids because it's not a not a a high high high um and it may if I may there may be and I apologize for jumping in but there may be um business the board has that may not be a public hearing right still public meeting of course always our meetings are public but it may be more along the lines of work shop type business or or dead other deadlines that you know might not be problematic ultimately that was kind of my concern sorry so that would mean don't schedule applications on that day on that night how do we yeah I don't know we have an atheist applicant Ober obes the board that's right the board the board can always the can always decide that the workload is such that on balance it's beneficial to cancel it uh as opposed to Simply outright cancel it now not knowing what the workload may be ex as you get closer not and then it's much more difficult to schedule and sunshine notice a now special meeting uh as opposed to Simply say on balance I agree uh we you know we can we can cancel it yeah I'm I'm just the fill in but you know but but in my experience you know with things that have come up at our firm for example there might be things that don't require public meetings like you may have to go into an executive session about something and then you have a meeting that's scheduled or um there may be something like an ordinance um um the the master plan uh consistency review which is not technically a public meeting but you know if if there's something that that the C committee wants so essentially you know it you try not to schedule or not schedule any public hearings for it but as as Steve said it's easier to cancel than to add back on especially with a lot of the uncertainties that are going on with you know just just all the different state laws and you know master plan Etc so is it possible to keep this on the schedule but not schedule applications for that meeting or yeah we can just note that to keep track of it okay so we keeping October 16 about St Patrick's Day what about St Patrick's are we keeping St Patrick's Day I say yes the big celebration is always on the weekend anyways right they always usend so so unless you're going into the city to partake of that debauchery I would say we're probably okay so keep keep it I keep keep thank you so any yeah okay so are we okay with the the schedule as is then so that I just want to point out one thing and I may not have noticed this last year but it looks like there's a long gap between the December 1st and January 12th meeting like a six week break is that typical I just don't remember other than the summer cancellations that something was blocked out for that extended per usually in December we only have one meeting due to the holidays and stuff like that we only have one year I mean next year will fall December 1st I gotta normally like later seven eight maybe that's what I'm thinking okay and there's the Jan January one seems a little late but is that because of the calendar and the committee meeting organization all meetings are will be are I held after the re organization it's kind of weird all right yeah that's fine and I next January probably be later um reorganization have to put my first within the first seven days of the year right okay by by the way if if we needed it could always uh schedule a special meeting if we got a quarum or even December 15th perhaps I'm happy not to put my we could all attribute [Laughter] that right exactly and that's why the karma thing okay so again we have no public here so I don't think we general public comments and no reason for close session at this time we don't have Joe here to make a well I talked to he said he wanted to make sure that we push this should we call I I do have a question um so we're soon to get our uh input on the fourth round for October 20 is the deadline for DCA uh and uh October 20 is a deadline for DCA so they're frantically scribbling numbers I guess the computers are crunching hard I'm sure where they are okay so there's nothing for us to do in advance of that other than scratch our head and say what are yeah nothing certainly formal uh as I had mentioned uh uh at the Town Hall we did the the town Ship Hall I should say the the um uh the professionals are already working on looking at last year's vacant land last year last rounds make it land adjustment and making projections and thinking about you know things in that guard so the plans are uh uh the process from a an internal professional standpoint has begun okay we're being preactive not reactive um but there's only so much we can be proactive about a not knowing the number and B uh ultimately we know what all the rules the bonus credits Etc that were afforded uh and uh it's it's uh once that number is formalized ized uh then by January 30 the township will adopt a resolution with that number or a different number uh depending on uh and then uh we will have by J uh by January 30 we will have the final binding number right um and at that point I anticipate we'll uh have been as proactive as we can be to that point and then we'll be moving forward full steam ahead because it's only uh less than six month about five months thereafter that we have to have our housing element fair share plan in place and our draft implementation ordinances uh in place if I could just make one last comment for the record I attended the affordable housing presentation that was put on by our professionals and um and our governing body members U Mr rabitz Don were there uh it was an outstanding presentation I thought it was very informative well put together I think it answered all the questions we could answer at this point in time recognizing that we are waiting for additional data and um and um you know I think that everyone came away feeling better informed um about the whole process so I I just want to congratulate all I'll second that who finger who fingerprinted all that work ourm we're glad to hear that I think I think we need a roll call vote on that I I told Paul not to do that but you know when the number arrives will we as a board get to see that number and the calculations well I guess I want to know will the DCA say this is how we calculated the number or we just the calculation send in a number here's your number calulation is codified in the legislation the method well it's a reference to a 250 page thing right yeah it is it is um but the difference is that now you know even though it's hard to parse it it it is it is there in the past it was all sort of being done on the Fly um but you know all of this will you know it will be explained you know over the time but yeah when the we know I can to say you know at our firm Paul and Liz are you know we're we're going approaching all of these as like the the as the timeline it sticks as it did as it is in the um legislation you know every will be ready to go before those dates hit so you can do those quick turnarounds like Steve said with the with that but yeah with the with the number um not sure exactly how it will be distributed but you know it'll of course be you know the township will know it yeah so my understanding is there supposed to be a report yeah and I understood that to mean at least some explanation as to how the uh Jacobson quote unquote methodology uh is uh implemented and effectuated at a state level and then I forgot the term but brought down for lack of a better term to the regional level and then brought down to the municipal level okay uh so we're supposed to see that yes um uh just like we're supposed to see everything else onor before the October 20th um and uh certainly I in my opinion uh being able to examine that is important uh in order to comfortably adopt the resolution with that number or for that matter comfortably adopt the resolution with a different number um because and this is just my opinion this is not anyone else's opinion um given that the methodology is statutorily provided for one would think there's not a lot of wiggle room if the methodology is properly utilized and implemented by DCA but if I would always reserve the right to argue I'm an attorney if the Jacobson opinion is completely clear and if it's if it's well implemented properly implemented yes but those are two very large assumptions I I I agree wholeheartedly do we have like a r of what we're expecting a clue we have no idea at all I don't want to I you know I don't want to I mean obviously your planning on something must have an idea of what nobody wants to give out nobody wants to every municipality someone says yeah can you p no it's just you don't you don't want to be high you don't want to be low you don't want well when the person mentioned a thousand last week and you said let's hope it's not that's well that's let's put it this way I think it's safe to say I won't say anything more than this but I think it's safe to say this fact the yeah third round was a 26y year round that's a fact the fourth round is a 10year round I'm not suggesting someone take a certain number mathematically divide by whatever that number would 2.1 you know but um if one takes those two facts uh into uh mind perhaps you can go ahead and have your own speculations as to what range it may be I won't say anything more other than that it's a rank speculation okay so so the work that's been done' been doing so far the open land systems reviewing the last one which is not necessarily it's like it's part of the me it's included in the methodology is this is a way to address well that that's a way of addressing it without getting into too much detail the the vacant land adjustment that was done before is being as I understand it updated because it's been six years 2018 about then yeah not every town does them you know some towns if you if you have if you have the ability to do that you know we we're we recently just updating it to reflect current conditions so you we have everyone has the most accurate assessment of what's going on and the vacant land adjustment doesn't change the number uh but what it does is it changes uh uh uh it's utilized to break out the number between what is the realistic development potential and sometimes referred to as the harder of the two numbers if you will that needs to be addressed more direct through more direct mechanisms and the unmet need number which is the balance of that total number which is addressed with Less Direct or can be addressed with Less Direct mechanisms to to speak broadly so I always view them as two sort of baskets or columns or whatever in my mind can visualize one versus the other yeah no exactly and so that you know that the the details will have changed since the last round but you know that that kind of inherent thing is still part of the that mechanism still expected to be utilized and that's why it's being updated by the planners and focused on uh you know for utilization in this next in this round uh because it will undoubtedly be a part of the analysis and the house uh uh the fair share plan the housing El the fair share plan that'll be adopted uh on or before June 30 first we first DCA has to get to uh October 20th yeah well think yeah all those numbers are by the way in the stat all those dates are in the statute yes so uh so yeah if if DCA doesn't make the October 20 date there's nothing in the statute that gives anyone more time unless the statute gets amended which they which they have done they already missed a June date and got it changed to a September date for auditing of certain uh yeah so we're not we're just not sure how it's gonna go but we're everyone's progressing that every these dates are be set the stone dates we won't miss any deadlines can't can't promise DCA won't but we won't thank you sure yes thank you can I get a motion to adour since Joe's not here move to a Jour all right all in favor hi is Jour thank you very much