##VIDEO ID:9_Ak8zMDIw4## here here here okay thank you uh first order of business is can we have the minutes from the two October meetings uh starting with the October 7th meeting any comments Corrections thoughts can I I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes so moved second all in favor I I I minutes are approved uh October 21 any comments thoughts Corrections modifications needed for the October 21 minutes motion to approve pardon motion to approve second okay uh all in favor I I motion passes okay moving on and this is a little change in the the the well the first one isn't um we have two resolutions to m moralize test today um that was added after the package went out last week so there's two both the U p524 the Morris Marketplace and p424 the CHC Madison project so we'll start with the uh PB 0524 moris Marketplace Mr Warner chairman the board will recall this was a preliminary and final major subdivision approval without the need for any bul variants design waiver or other belief uh in connection with the proposal to subdivide for separate ownership and financing purposes Lots 301 and 307 in uh at 191 East Hover Avenue the Mars Marketplace uh board approved uh there were conditions as there always are uh many conditions including requiring payment of all outstanding non-residential development fees prior to the issuance of certificates of uh of uh occupancy or certificates of completion uh and several other uh conditions many of which were related to modifications to be made to the financial agreement and the reciprocal easement agreements uh and the Redevelopment agreements uh because this was a Redevelopment project uh when it's uh well it's still a Redevelopment project so hopefully the uh so hopefully the resolution is an accurate memorialization of the board's decision in the uh in the case any questions comments on this resolution okay get a motion to approve it all is it here so moved second call roll flowers yes Mr Barrett yes M Murphy yes Mr Beno yes yes yes so now moving on to the next one Mr Warner certainly the CHC Madison project owner LLC this was a minor site plan approval again without need for any bulk variants or design waiver or other relief uh beyond the minor site plan approval uh in connection with the proposal to construct an approximately 1,476 that's approximately 1,476 foot paper patio and Surround with Landscaping features uh at the Madison Hotel at one Convent Road in Mars Township uh there were conditions of disapproval as well no exterior lighting or audio speaker systems um The Patio was not to be used during the winter months uh and only deer resistant arivi species for screening uh and the like so again as always hopefully our resolution is an accurate memorialization of the board's decision I make a motion we accept the resolution as presented I'll second second okay son you call the rooll Mr Alo yes is in order yes Mr rabbit yes M Murphy yes Mr Beno yes M yes it's the bu yes okay moving on we actually to a public hearing could you introduce that son our next application is I mean sorry PV PB 624 the red oak schol ink for the site plan block 101 Lot 1 238 Avenue the OS Z applicant proposal installation of a new school sign and if I may yes please do uh the I did have an opportunity to review the notice found the content to be sufficient found it to be timely served and published a both uh certified mail service and published on November 5th both at least 10 days prior to this evening so the board does have jurisdiction excuse me to hear and decide the application tonight okay hello good evening uh my name is Ruben Perez I'm an attorney with Fox Rothchild uh here on behalf of the Red Oak School Inc uh the applicant with respect to this President application for amended site plan approval uh the applicant is seeking amended site plan approval for the installation of a new school sign specifically signage on the facade of the school building which is located at 238 speedwall Avenue uh this is on block 101 lot one the uh plans that have been uh provided and submitted with respect to the application uh remain current um I have tonight with us uh two uh uh individuals who can speak uh a bit further as to the application and any questions that the planning board members may have um the first who is seated to my left is Mr John hly Mr hly is the uh architect of record with respect to this application uh Mr hlye is the principal of John J haberly aiac has been since January 1st 2005 uh Mr hly is a licensed architect of New Jersey New York and Pennsylvania since 1992 um additionally uh seated behind us is Mr Christopher Weaver uh Mr Weaver is the head of school of the Red Oak School has been since July 1st uh 2024 uh and he is familiar with the day-to-day operations uh with respect to the school um so at this time I will open to any questions that the planning board members may have with respect to the application um as youve seen it's a pretty standard application with respect to the signage no variances that are being requested at this time I may Mr CH do you anticipate a direct examination for one or both gentlemen or just simply answering questions just uh answering questions okay well in in anticipation of the fact that one or more of them one or both of them I should say uh may be answering those questions if you'll both raise your your right hand as well as our engineer do all three of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you and back to you Mr chair okay so you just any preamble to our any questions I mean I think we have the application does anyone have any questions on this I have curiosity question okay um so uh you now have two schools one still on Cutler is that correct and that has prek through four and then this one on speed well uh has grades 5 through eight so it's still a prek-8 school um and how long have you been in the speed well location this is the third you could switch the mic it might be better thank you just for the record this is Mr Weaver correct correct that's correct okay and if we could just have a business address is fine for record provide address for this address business address is f okay what is that 250 sorry I just started the summer what is a g what is a GPS yeah so it's uh 238 Speedwell Avenue okay thank you uh and and the question was it's a prek 38 school and the intent is to keep it that way okay I I'm actually I didn't even know that uh you were in the speedr location so I'm glad to hear that there's no sign there's no sign I knew the St Virgil School wasn't there anymore but glad to see I'm not the only one with the punch on thing chairman yes just a couple clarifications because it took me a while to look at the site plan and see where the signs are going because it's not indicated on the site plan but I did see the trailer because that was shaded is the trailer now part of this that waser Double Y trailer there's no can you bring the that ex if I may maybe it'll help if if just a run through because I think an amended site plan was provided that may have been with respect to a prior application I'm guessing that's that's correct okay that's prior application that the only change that's being made is signage on Theo here prop yeah so so this so the so the survey and that drawing that drawing there is just from a previous application that double nothing to do with it right with this application okay that's so we can ignore this right and it's not mentioned anywhere in the application yes can I ask is the double wide trailer no longer there I'm not familiar with the double wide trailer is I don't believe it's there when I drove byen point to where the sign's go one side is pretty obvious but the other one is not I think that was Ed's question yeah well I think I figured it out but this this you want to go up there this is the outline footprint of the building yeah the sign is going just one figured okay just one sign there's there's two signs there's one sign over the door shown on the front elevation that you have and just for the record that's Mr John hly the architect and uh perhaps since we heard his qualification your license remains a good standing yes do okay and I will accept his anert in the field of architecture in the state of New Jersey which gives you the right to point out where the signs are it's two to [Laughter] one I'm sorry please the Red Oak School Middle School campus is going over the front door in this location there's also a Oakley logo is going on what we call the tower that's right off of and where's the second side that's the two and maybe you could speak to maybe the next the your architectural plan might might be help with the I may mention there was an existing sign out removed as part of the overall School Rehabilitation project there was a large digital sign which I'm sure neighbors has been removed there was also another uh individual letter sign on the existing tower that said St Berg School small letters they were maybe 8 in tall and those were removed this part of there was also a cross at the top of that Tower there we didn't want anything to do um that was removed as well if I may was that part of the prior application or was that just simply subsequent to the prior approval and just the determination made by the it a prior application enre thank you yes since you're out there on the chart there is currently a sign I don't I don't know if it's on the sidewalk but in in the front I saw it there today what did I see today is it the church sign no it says Red Oak schools okay that that must be a temporary sign got's show off the cor yeah there's a small sign wooden sign of yeah the wooden yeah so is that gonna be removed or is that GNA remain there okay that was just an approval that they received when they open The Score shortly there get some yes mrb just a quick question I didn't see anywhere whether this sign um or the oak Lea be lighted can I assume that there's no Lighting on this the oak leaf no the lettering there is lighting indicated on that elevation there's a strip light that would sit on top of the canopy that's over the entrance door I'm blind okay so that so that light is going to be lit from what what hours we would ask for your assistance in that regard you know we would like it lit as long as possible but if we need to put it on a timer where it's on at dusk let's say and on the time of year of course and it's out at or 1:00 in the morning or something you know we would look for your directions okay what does typically 10 o'clock typically 10 o' there's nobody around there right still it's is it is it back lit or is it it's it's down L it's a wall washer it's a linear wall washer it's down lit it's it's shining up a sign so it's sitting on the canopy on pivoting brackets and it's a wall wash that just shines right up at the signage it's it's an LED fixture so it can be dimmed as necessary I would think 10 o'clock I mean typ which is typical of our other lighting ordinances you know for dark sky and whatnot would would it need to be lit anything anytime after 10 p.m we were thinking it Con consistent with the conventions of the street um I know tips Bar and Grill is across the way there's a bunch of other shops and so because there's traffic on the Street and part of the function is advertising to have it on a little bit later would be nice but we're flexible on that okay would you consider going down to half lighting you know because of a dark sky you wouldn't need to be full full bright we do like to preserve our night sky as much as possible full agreement and it's it's LED lighting so it's totally dimmable thank you Mr War you if I may to to help the board there was a prior approval dece uh well December 2010 uh for St Virgil Academy at the same location there were some conditions of approve this was with respect to a sign at the time might have been a digital the digital sign sign so I'm not saying it's an Apples to Apples comparison but one of the conditions was sign lighting shall be turned off no later than 900 p.m That Was Then for that application um and shall remain off until 7:00 a.m. in the morning um but whatever is appro from the board's perspective is certainly fine I just want you to be aware of that that history and and if I may again it's a separate application separate type of character of signage um so we'll just also ask that that be considered with respect to the Mr Le Mr chairman I think the compromise that um Mr rabbit's made is fair full lighting till 10: and then uh half lighting until I know one o' till Dawn oh till dawn that sounds fair they do face commercial when she shows up we'll turn it right up one me any other comments on that just one more yeah Mr chairman just want to confirm I don't know if it's for a Jim or for um the applicant the size of the letters that's conforms to the ordinance they do um the letters that say the Red Oak School are 18 in tall uh all the letters first of all are acrylic uh they're mounted to the wall with 1in standoff so they sit one inch off the face of the wall um the Red Oak School is 18inch tall letters the middle school campus lettering is 12 in tall um we did a calculation that is indifference I understand to the way it should have been calculated we have the capability in CAD to determine what the square footage of each letter is since they're individual letters and um you know we came up with the number that's indicated on your submission of one 1.2% of the overall square footage uh Mr Slate pointed out to me earlier that you know you would typically draw a rectangle or a box around the lettering but from my understanding we are still well below the 5% allowance as far as the ordinance goes we allow up to 5% of the facade for signage and um as I went through the calculation um it's a total of 8.88 Square ft if you you know draw a box around Red Oak School a box around the middle school campus and then also a box around the uh the leaf uh signage that gives you a total of 8.88 and that gives you 3.6% of the where you can go up to 5% so they're still under 5% requirement in my experience for what it's worth that's generally how it's done you don't go letter by letter and the facade meeting from the very left side of the face all the way to the very right side okay thank you back to the lighting question may people acceptable for the I I think that's a nice compromise I mean I understand their need for some advertising right uh and that is a pretty brightly lit quarter in any case if um so I think that's good yeah that 9:00 limit from before seems awfully restrictive but then that was one of the digital sign that was out you know a little more in your face was also a condition limiting the number of changes that could be made yeah okay which is something that's evolved in zoning over the last 20 years now all the different types of signs I I forgot the term yeah okay so I guess if you're willing to accept that the the compromise but any other comments questions might be appropriate to make a motion that we approve the application with the stipulation that they will cut their lights down half intensity at 10 o00 and then keep it at half intensity until dawn shows up she's perpetually late I I can't hold back my suggestion is we don't tell on okay one second second any discussion just for the record Mr chairman recognize that there is no public Tas oh yes I'm sorry thank you right right good point I guess uh call the role and I have made a motion Joe Joe that was me yeah yes just before we do roll go through condition the existing small wooden sign will be as testified to we got the lighting condition uh the existing freestanding sign has been removed we like to have a detail of the included on the plans and that the plan should be corrected to reflect the uh total signage Square footed based upon theang the correct methodology and applicant stipulates to those reasonable conditions of approval yes thank you yes Mr bar yes Mr bra yes and good luck M yes Mr yes yes yes yes not Church St Virg I saw I saw it said St virgilia I saw that too okay one one you have a friend find out they've got a different given name for coming in thank you sorry yes yes seem to be concerned about lighting a lot of applications can I ask somebody who a deep dive on the pro Bank the one that lights up most of Mars County I mean bu you must see it all the timeware free gigantic provent sign it's ridiculously right and they don't shut off 24 hours a day I mean 3 o'clock in the morning when I'm going through a fireball I let it light me down I don't a guard your path I is it possible if they're out of compliance I would say it's possible and I know we've re received complaints and those complaints have gone to the bank and I thought they made adjustments to that but I'll follow up it's just it's right that's that's a good point has complained about that complain I'll second this the banks seem to be the primary perpetrators of light violations and gas station that bank or Bank Banks generally okay not that bank one in particular that uses a blue light uh that in some municipalities seems to goes to the sky it's like like Hard Rock Cafe guitar string yeah exactly what you don't want lighting up the sky yeah right which o Glenn and and Madison oh I haven't I guess I've never been by middle of the night yeah right I'm just glad it's not the ugly ugly color yeah uh okay I guess uh I you know I still no public has arrived for comments so I think we can open and close that session perun manner um any from the legislative committee nothing for me okay and I don't believe we have any reason for a closed session s did you add something Mr chairman yes um at this time I have zero application for the December second meeting really did you authorize me to cancel that meeting yes good answer we're free we're free make a motion we support Rick's we'll use that time for shopping and now now it's my turn to throw a d Steve probably wouldn't have the resolution for this one done by then anyway so one for him [Laughter] I will say that Paul and I are typically the ones holding up oh oh oh oh okay he promply sends it to us and we're slow to respond no maybe no no uh okay can I I waiting for Joe and I haven't heard anything I felt like jumped a little early on the application oh I okay think a motion we adjourn second Miss Murphy second okay all in favor thank you very much thank you for next year going be little busy