##VIDEO ID:WK-ZyB5f50w## I'd like to call to order the uh Mars Township Board of adjustment meeting for December 9th 2024 uh the legal notice required by the open public meetings act has been satisfied and a statement certifying same will be executed uh please join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all Miss Santiago roll call please yes Mr chairman Mr Goldberg here Mr penber here miss uh Simmons here Mr Schuster here Mr benois here Mr krer here Mr miss polara here Mr Woodford here Mr ol here Mr Hansen here and I Santiago here okay first matter is a resolution on ba-1 15-24 Mr oler thank you Mr chairman this is a memorializing resolution with respect to the application filed by Italia Duran and Javier Quinto with uh who applied to the board for permission to modify an existing non-conforming dwelling by constructing a second story Edition which required variances for for uh the sidey yard setback combined sidey yard and rear yard setback for the expansion of a non-conforming structure um for the reason set forth in the resolution the application was conditionally granted with our um standard conditions as well as a condition indicating that the existing garage May remain in its current location however upon replacement it shall be relocated to a permitted area or the property owner shall return to the board for any appropriate variant Rel okay board members any comments on the proposed um resolution if not I'll entertain a motion I'll make that motion Mr have a second thank you Mr Schuster Miss Santiago roll call please Mr Goldberg yes Mr tractenberg yes M Simmons yes Mr Schuster yes Mr Beno yes Mr Kramer yes Mr wer yes so move okay moving on the public hearings the first one is ba-1 13-24 masteron M Santiago yes Mr chairman this is ba-13 d24 Amy and Matthew Masterson block 3911 lot 17 100 burnam Parkway in the ra15 zone for section c applicant proposes the construction of a two-cart garage creating a side yard setback of 1.4 ft where 20 ft is required a rear yard set back of 5.2 feet where 25 ft is required and a combined side yard setback of 8.1 feet where 50 ft is required okay appearance please okay and Jeffrey Goen architect and okay thank you m okay would you both please stand raise your right hand you Solly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth help we got thanks all right who's going to testify first yeah I'll start um so just for some background uh my wife and I bought the house in 2017 um there is an existing detached garage there um it's original to the home uh the home's about 100 years old um we bought the house with um in the garage was it was as is it was not in great condition when we bought it um ultimately the plan was place at one point to replace it um which is we are now um over time just if you look at the the property there's been back fill behind our house as the streets behind it were developed and so there's soil coming up against the garage which has caused it to basically um essentially start to crack and fall down so goal is to replace it um you know and make it a little bit bigger so it's fit our cars today for modern use um we'd also like to put a second floor on that we can use as the home office board members any questions Mr Hansen any questions uh just that uh the access to the second floor will be by way of an outside stairway there's enough grade between the front of the garage and the back wall of the garage that they only need a couple steps to walk into what will be the second floor elevation okay the back of the house is or the back of the garage is only going to be about four or five ft out of the ground uh front of the garage is going to be two full stories that's that's how much of a grade break there is in that corner of the property he did have a wood deck in the backyard and he did have a wood shed in the backyard that'll be subject to uh being removed as part of this so there's only one accessory structure uh in the property the other two were considered accessory structures at the initial review okay and uh any uh members of the public with any questions of this witness seeing none hearing none close the public portion Mr Goan yes hello um uh I'll just first flip through some photographs to show the existing conditions around this garage uh uh the top here I and this is an exhibit that was not submitted yet uh these are just the photos everything else I'm going to show was already um submitted do we do we have this no you don't have these photos yet okay so I'll need you to uh provide some you with copies of whatever you're producing tonight I will and just before we get too far into it could you just he was SW he was swed can you just tell us your credentials yes I'm um LIC architect and I I also maintain a planner's license although I don't do heavy duty planning like some you know as a professional planner I just use it to um be able to testify at hearings like this for to justify uh variance relief right and is your architects license and good standing in New Jersey yes it is and is your planners license and good standing in New Jersey okay well accept you as an architect and a planner thank you so U this is this is a view of the back of the garage where you can see that the so before too far we're going to Mark the series of photographs as exhibit A1 all right do you know how many there are 12 there are 10 photographs okay so 10 photographs um will be A1 and if you go through them and just tell us what each one is then okay so starting at the top um is a uh a view of the back of the garage where over the years um we don't know exactly how it happened but the neighbors behind this this lot were filling the back of their yard and the fill what wrap against this this existing garage uh so it's caused a uh a search charge of um soil onto the wall that was not designed as a retaining wall and uh this is also happening around the sides of the garage a little bit where the the from that high level it slopes down on each side um and the concrete block structure is cracking and failing so we have to replace the whole thing so this this second shot is U also the rear Gable end of the garage you can see that the dirt is all the way at the top of the wall uh right right about where the roof lands on top of the wall that's looking so sort of Westerly toward the neighbors property that that corner is right on the property line also right and if I understand correctly the new garage is going to be moved in so there's no overhang into the neighbor's yard yes we are proposing to ship the whole footprint over to make it more compliant okay continue this this shot is um looking also at the back of the garage from a little further away where you can see this this uh corner is the neighbor and this is the neighbor's fence that goes along that side right now there's no room to maintain the fence or the garage along that side is the is the garage on the the side is that sitting on the neighbor's property or at the property line as well as the back yeah let me go down to the first drawing real quick here and I'll show you that footprint so this is the garage um Burnham is is at the bottom of the drawing this is their existing uh driveway the detached uh principal's house and then the the existing garage I I'll I'll try to get it closer you can see um it's hard to see but there are dotted lines right here that shows the footprint of the existing garage and it and it goes right up to the this is the back corner you just saw in the photograph right on the property line got it thank you so you have um this is that back corner I just pointed to and then um this is a view looking from about that corner down the property line toward Burnham where you can see the neighbors's fence on the left and the the roof of the garage which has full full of moss on the right so this is that little Gap between the sidewall of the garage and Par line and this is a view from uh the Masterson's rear yard looking over there and so to the left here is where the cable and I just showed you is full of soil and then it comes down along the side of the garage on each side that's the front um it's fairly small for two car garages today uh it it would be hard to fit two cars in there so we are proposing to enlarge it also it's a 24x 24 I'm still a modest twocc car garage and the whole thing will be shifted over a little bit I'll show you the so this is the uh the corner where you can see that yard sloping up to the back and then inside this is just some shots of the wall the were taking last year it's probably worse now uh but it's all the step cracking and the actual movement of the concrete wall um both on the back and and a little bit on the sides sorry this this was turned that's the sidewall that's the garage door so it's a pretty significant problem uh okay so this is my C1 sheet is exactly what was submitted although um yours are not in color they're just black and white copies of it and um so this sheet shows some of those photos an aerial photo here shows the um the Masterson's house right there and there's their driveway and there's the Dre car garage that we want to replace and the neighbors fence is right along that property line as uh Dave Hansen mentioned um The Proposal includes removing two structures that were non-compliant and we're not sure if they were built with permits they were pre-existing your ownership right that's right uh so they don't need the shed with the larger garage they won't need a shed anymore so we're going to take that out and that'll that'll remove one non-compliant condition and then there's octagonal deck uh that is also not being used and will be removed so all of that will become lawn area and U as Dave mentioned there's a an exterior stoop um just an open wood deck type stoop uh stepping up to the attic floor essentially of of this garage uh so they are proposing uh to occupy the attic level just as an office or a hobby type room just an empty room essentially um I think you already have electric garage right so there' just be some lighting up there okay and um I'll show you the a little bit more of that so essentially that's it the the variance is uh because we we are still non-compliant on the rear yard we proposing 5.2 ft and we are proposing 1.4 we right now at zero we can't go too much further over because of the constraint of the existing house the existing driveway but we are going to be moving this U set of steps and curbs and everything over with the garage and then the other U variants had to do with the combined sidey yards which looks at the site as a whole so we have 6.7 feet to the left side of the main house and the 1.4 up here okay um this is just the existing survey just zoom out for a second where you can see where the garage is how the corner touches that property line and you can see the shed and the deck that are being removed okay so the foot part of the garage ENT essentially a a pretty typical rectangular shape with two doors 24 by 24 and then the the stoop on the left side um because it remember that that is already up quite high so we only have to go up a few steps to get to the attic FL um the attic is going to have Dormers still going to look like a a one and a half story garage so we're dormering a little bit just for Headroom up here and otherwise it's pretty much an attic space with uh windows on on the front back we have a gam roof with um uh basically the gutter line still down where it is now down close to that P floor and then u a nice finish that looks traditional and like it could have been there all along this the the existing house has some of these same roof features uh so we were trying to be consistent architecturally and then looking at the front view you can see the stoop beyond all the way in the back of corner um and then the left side is here so you can see the stoop here in the that little Dormer and uh the right side you can see that we still have dirt being retained alongside the garage and we still have the same level in the back we're not proposing any new retaining walls or changing that we're going to design the garage as a retaining wall just let all of it remain um and then as Dave mentioned the um height calculation is a function of What's called the average grade so we take the uh top topographic points around the garage and average them out and we come up with what's called an average grade which is an imaginary line that runs across here and then we're not rec we're not allowed to build higher than 15 feet above that line to the ridge of the garage correct so they don't need a height variance no no so I think that's pretty much what we're here for and um I don't think I have too much more I have to say uh let me just look at the charts here AR side yards okay there's a pre-existing lot area is required to be 15,000 and this will in this Zone he's at 9757 9,757 and then the lot width is also um required to be 100 he's he's just under 100 99.9 uh otherwise um the coverages are are okay we we we did not have to get a variance for coverage okay and There's no practical way to put this garage anywhere within the setback Lines no there's no way to do it um we feel that it's preferable to keep it detached with space between it and the house to keep a more historic look and um less bulky look to the house okay and the shed and the wood deck are going to be removed correct yes the octagonal deck and the U shed are going to be removed all right board members any questions okay so Mr go um with respect to utilities will there be any in the garage I think well right now there there's an electric service I don't know if it's overhead or underground it's a existing wire there's overhead electric today but we don't plan on running any Plumbing or anything like that out there so no hbac hbac will just run off electric no natural gas lines or anything like that stil sink in the you have post and this is going to be used exclusively for storage is that correct or office the second floor will be used as home office office okay I'm just curious does any part of that second floor have to have retaining W like properties built into it in the rear of the garage or uh the the the retaining function will really just go to the top of the Mason we're going to build a concrete block U reinforc coning wall uh up to the Gable end I'll show you that so the the portion that has the office will be wood framed up up here and this will all be retaining all down here okay thank you board members any other questions will there be any um adjustments made to the asphalt driveway are the the expansion and the the width of the garage yes there will be a slight adjustment um we we have the front wall of the garage aligned with where it is now so it's just going to go further to the left from there to the left and then this this little area that I'm pointing at is going to become paved uh we're right this is already a walkway and the stair is here as a walkway but there there's a little bit of this area that will be expanding the okay so you're going to go into the property with that minor adjustment yes any other board when you go go back to the first sheet which one uh C1 C1 okay the picture is at the top keep going keep scrolling okay when you come out of the gar existing garage pointing down to the to the bottom of of the picture is what is a white curved line what is that okay so this is the picture you're looking at here the one the right over here on the right side or the left side view the aerial view yes this this right here okay that is the neighbor's property that's the nebor this whole section here is the neighbor's property right and I believe that's their driveway back up area but our our property is over here okay my mistake makes more sense okay yeah I see it now the property in question is the top half I was looking the wrong I saw that in the picture when I first looked at it and I said what's that okay no no problem any other board members with questions any members of the public with question no yeah you can ask a question as a member of the public this makes more sense Miss POA you have to go to the microphone theu down you have for um uh structurally you're asking how how are we going to build the retain the wall of the garage to support the dirt because since it's to the neighbor you when when the wall is when the garage is removed there will be a temporary disturbance to the right and the rear of the garage where we'll have to let some of that soil fall down we have uh written permission from our right-and neighbor to do that we might have to speak to the rear neighbor but we think we have enough room where we won't disturb any of the yard to the rear so it it'll just be a temporary U excavation build the new walls in the back fi the same way any other members questions I got one more question okay um the runoff from the the roof line can you just address the gutters again so the one that's adjacent to the property owner next door the water's coming down to the front into a dry well or far I know I don't think there are gutters on there they just all the water just drips down to each side but we could put a gutter on the neighbor side at least um and and just put a down spout on the corner we do have the large overhangs and um let me go back to uh you're saying like right here we put a cutter to and then direct that water down the I was just asking yeah so the current PL is done incorporator gutter you were just going to have no gutters correct that's the okay Mr Hansen any need for gutters on this not really okay thank you all right any other members of the public with questions if not I'll close the public portion anything else I don't think so U I was just going to say a few things from the planning perspective that basically I feel that we have some physical hardships we're dealing with the pre-existing non-conforming location of the garage uh trying to improve the non-conforming situation but still it will be nonon on the side and rear yards uh then we have the severe topographic issue that we have to deal with um and and uh the existing house location and and so those are all existing hardships that we have to tolerate and cope with and in addition I think we have some C2 uh uh purposes that we're fulfilling uh in terms of the overall Street skate and the fact that you do see this garage from the street Al although it's set way back to the rear um and we're trying to be architecturally uh interesting and consistent with the house so we feel that it's a an improvement over what there now okay thank you board members any comments questions uh if not I'll entertain a motion and just my thoughts on this um the existing lot is less than 2third of that required by The Zone uh it's with the slope in the back it's imposs POs to locate this garage anywhere else without basically Paving the entire backyard uh I'd be in favor of this uh this application um I'll move to approve I'll second that all right Mr Santiago roll call Mr Gober yes Mr track Denberg yes M Simmons yes Mr Schuster yes Mr benois yes Mr Kramer yes Mr wford yes so Mo okay okay I will have a resolution for you at the next meeting okay next is va-1 17-23 uh Michael Ying oh must be our next application is B 8-1 17-23 block 6503 lot 5440 Springbrook Road in the ra15 zone for section c Mr Michael Ying this is a continuation from December 11th of 2023 March 25th 2024 and June 10th of 2024 public hearings the applicant proposes the construction of a two-story Edition creating a sard setback on the right side of 15.44% and on the left side yard of 14.25 feet where 20 fet is required and creating a combined side yard setback of 29.4 four feet where 50 feet is required the applicant will also seek a variance for a building height of 40.5 feet where 35 ft is required and a fence height on the left side of 7.5 feet where six feet is allowed okay Mr Brady your appearance please good evening Mr chairman members of the board David Brady of the firm of Brady and Cy Allen being excuse me Mr y as Sonia just recited we started just about a year ago on this we're hoping to be able to finish up tonight since it's been a year and there's been some changes if the board will indulge me of that wanted to just kind of review a little bit where we are property is 40 Springbrook it's block 6503 lot 54 the property is in the ra5 zone it's 15,000 square foot lot or excuse me it's a 20,000 foot lot in a zone that requires 15,000 square ft it's basically a rectangle 100t wide by 200 feet deep on the south side of the street there's an existing twostory house with a twocc car attached garage and it was built Circa 1930 our original proposal had several facets to it we're going to put a a roof over the front porch that provide some from against the element we're going to expand the existing garage towards the left to better fit two cars into garage to have an inter access from the garage into the house which doesn't exist now um we were going to also remove what I'll call a plain sort of shed Edition on the right hand side of the house where it's is currently an office and replace it with a squared off Edition with a lot more architectural detail than the current shed Edition um we're also going to add a dining room behind the garage with an attached Carriage House the carriage house has bedroom upstairs parking for car cars at the middle level at the bottom level uh there was uh basically a pool house sort of arrangement for use uh in connection with pool there's a pool and Veranda that are proposed and of course interior changes um we've made a bunch of changes since then every time we've been here we come back and sharpen the pencil so to speak uh currently we're not going to remove that shed like addition on the right hand side that has the office that's going to stay there and we removed the addition of the new kind of square office on the right hand side we reduced the size of the dining room and the garage and shifted them to the right the back um and then the outside details so to speak have also been modified we've modified the chimney we've modified the fence on top of the containing wall along the driveway uh we've got an extensive Landscaping plan that we submitted last time we reduced what by my count was seven variances in the original application now down to uh essentially I I'll call it two variances the sidey guard setback on the leftand side and the combined side yards combining both sides although the sidey yard setback has two components to it one is the extension or expansion of the existing garage and one is the uh erection of of the carriage is there also um one because you're putting a second floor on the garage uh and that garage I think is within the front yard setback by about a foot it's 49 ft so wouldn't you need a it's less than a foot I think it's 49t and some inches yeah so you need a variant VAR for that but you don't need one for the um the front entrance don't need one for the front entrance that's that's comp and uh what about the um any side wall or fencing still is there any variance requirement there no variance for the fence because we've gone from I think it was a stockade sort of fence originally to one of those wider fences which is almost totally transparent way the ordinance is written and and and Mr toia will go into this a little bit if you have that transparency like that then you do not add the fence height onto the Wall height so by not having to add that fence height on we don't have a variance okay okay um we've heard from uh Peter Dorne the architect um Kathy Mueller the engineer and vilia huff the landscape architect tonight I have Mr toia our planner and unless the board has any questions I ask that he'd be sworn in if you raise your right hand please do you solemly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God your full name for the record please Michael toia T o b i a thank you and Mr chairman normally I know the board has seen Mr Toby and might and I might wave having to qualify him I would like him to place his uh why don't we why we just have them put in because we have members of the public here and they're entitled to know what his qualifications are thank you okay so hi everybody U Michael toia the applicants planning consultant um I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey as you know hold a bachelor's degree and a master's degree in the field of urban planning finished my grad work in 1981 been practicing steadily in this field since then it's about 43 years um made appearences over the years before um planning boards and zoning boards and governing bodies totally about 200 separate agencies over the years as well as uh multiple appearances in local Court state courts and many appearances of course before this board ask that he be accepted as a professional an expert in professional planning so accepted you may proceed thank you Mr chairman so um I got 15 minutes for you tonight and what I thought I'd do um first is uh very quickly describe what what Dave just uh described for you in plan form up on uh your monitors is our site plan September 10th is the date unchanged since the last time we saw you um prepared by Kathy Mueller um basically what's been described um in the past with this current plan um are three things we're calling one addition a if you look at my pointer I'll Circle that that's the element um at the southeast uh portion of the site that includes a new um one Bay garage parking for two cars but one Bay a dining room a basement level which has a pool equipment in it as well as a sitting room and up on the top floor of this element a bedroom suite okay uh addition a also involves um not only the dining room but some work on a Vera off to the west side of the rear of the house condition a condition B is a much more modest it's a three and A2 foot bump out of the existing garage more on that later but the idea is to widen the existing garage make it more functional on top of that existing garage um will be placed a second new bedroom also Suite um and then we have addition C which is a little Portico in front the building right now this this uh home it's nice as it is has a lot of warts and moles try to fix a lot of them one is that we don't have a covered walkway or covered entrance way in front so um addition C which has not been talked about a lot is just a fortical no Varian is needed um swimming pool is proposed at the rear of the property 16 by 38 ft in dimension uh variance free back there is also U some storm order improvements and that's basically uh the proposal Mr Yu to my left is the applicant as you heard he's moved in in May of 2022 um been in the property now two and a half years been working on this probably for a year and a half to get it to where we are now now what I'm going to do um take you we walk you through the property Mr rer this is a new exhibit um just your usual PowerPoint dated September 23rd um with photos taken May 24th of this year um need an exhibit number if you don't mind I think we are up to 812 you have that okay a12 um so that's a PowerPoint um presentation a12 um 11 sheets I took the photos photos May 24th um and U son I'll send you electronic you want yes please so we're going to walk you through the property um it's 40 Springbrook Road and um so just to let you know what's going on the house on slide uh two is uh dead center on this property that's subject property to the right of it is uh Miss s's house um she's a concerned neighbor um that would be to the east and to the West you've heard from the newon family that's the next house over Spring Brook roads at the top of the exhibit um 23 foot wide roadway no parking on the roadway um this site can't see it on an aial but from the street to the rear property line pitches down it's about 20 foot gray change from Springbrook Road uh to the rear of the property here's the house it's about 94 years old now um it's a nice curb appeal to it but what we've U learned from the testimony of uh Peter Dorne is um it's old okay um problems have been noted on the record garage is too narrow uh doors are too low getting in and out of this house is one of the driving forces behind the application although there's a garage that I'll show you in a moment that's attached to the house there's no staircase that's attached to the house so you got to go out the garage door go back into the house it's one of the things we hope to fix up uh the staircases are a mess bad risers bad Runners um the bathrooms are uh three of the four bathrooms are not on Suite bathrooms you heard from Mr Doran that state-ofthe-art these days we'd like to fix that um roof pitch on on both of the elements the main element shown here on slide three as well as the garage is too low for this type of architecture Mr Dorne is going to fix that you can see here what I said before dead center on this slide no covering over the front doorway um there's bad Plumbing there's seven heating systems the air conditioning um needs replacement um and uh Mr Ying himself said he's going to be $250,000 into this thing just fixing up uh some of the things I mentioned to you The Proposal is to fix it up expand it and turn it into um one of the nicer houses in the neighborhood slide four is the rear facade uh a lot happens in the back you'll see it on the on the site plan but basically all the addition is going toward the back of the house most of the additions uh the garage the dining room uh The Veranda will be out of public view from Spring Brook r Slide Five the rear entry garage is shown here from Spring Brook Road so you see two windows on the front of that garage no door no garage doors um this means folks have to go down the driveway um do a k turn or a double k turn and back into the garage door it's extremely awkward um I've classified it my applicant has classified it it's kind of a nonfunctional garage right now other than for storage um uh Dave mentioned before there was a plan once to replace the office on the west side of the house that's not going to happen anymore um but here on Slide Five is what that existing office looks like okay um okay so um slide seven um now is looking East at the sellers residence um and shows the garage the rear entry garage on the left uh the existing vegetation on the right will all be removed in a favor of uh Celia de Huff's rather extensive Landscaping plan that you all saw believe at our last hearing um going further down the easterly property line um there is plant material down there there's no house down there there's nothing to the um Northeast and Northwest of the property at the lower level where the pool will go the existing U um patio is shown in slide nine house on the right and now we're looking toward the west property line where there is some existing vegetation um we're going to stop here slide 10 is the rendering previously uh Mr Aller entered into uh a into exhibit A7 couple back this is when uh Peter Dorne presented his revised uh plan um that did several of the things Mr Brady mentioned before making the addition smaller improving the roof line of the rear structure um and improving the side yard setback of the garage if we look at this let me see if I can a little more zoom on this okay that's not bad so um so slide 10 shows um the existing house uh mid right on the slide um the uh renovated front garage now one story element um the lower level will remain a garage a two-bay garage will be widened by 3 and A2 ft will be provided with 9 foot wide garage doors they'll be S feet high whereas the existing doors are only six and a half um in other words it'll be modernized to what Mr Dorne called the state-of-the-art 2 Bay garage up top bedroom suite in the back is the proposed addition that adds another garage Bay to the property with a uh bedroom up the rest of the addition is shown in the back there's a metal roof proposed uh dining room covered Veranda even the swimming pool the back uh center of the site is shown on the exhibit you see part of the pool and the patio um this is a case um where nearly every zoning requirement in the ra15 zone is met okay single family house obviously is a permitted use the pool is a permitted accessory use the garage is a permitted accessory use um this site um as it's now presented to you meets um zoning requirements for building coverage impervious coverage Building height all over the place um front yard setback um all the pool setback requirements are met pools in Mars Township have to meet your principal building uh setbacks they're all met and exceeded in the back uh Mr chairman what you were talking about before with the front yard setback is the existing house is built at 49.89 feet from springb grow it's one inch light of the requirement uh a couple a couple meetings ago we had a discussion that basically said well if you're going to expand straight up from that facade with this second floor bedroom element you need a variance for a one-in setb it's correct okay it's di Minimus it's microscopic um we don't build houses with facades that go up and then jog back one inch and then continue up um so if that's a variance um we would suggest um it's di Minimus the flat facade is the way you build these things um and it's of no consequence from a planning perspective um so with all these uh zoning requirements met um the case really turns its attention to um side yard setback variances the front garage once this addition goes on once it gets expanded um Eastward ends up with a 14t side yard setback uh 20 FTS the requirement um the back garage as proposed now ends up with a 14.25 foot setback 20 FTS the requirement so in round numbers both the front addition and the back Edition Edition B in front a in the back um are short by six feet of compliance with the side yard setback more over um a 5050 foot combined side yard requirement is what's needed in town um in this Zone this site with these two additions and the existing office building on the other side will give you a combined side yard of 29.4 four feet okay uh making it the second significant variance on the case all other zoning requirements are the proofs here are simple they've been explained by Mr Doran by Miss Muller um I'll go throw them again um uh quickly um this is a 100 foot wide lot the existing house since it was built had non-compliant sidey yard conditions that office is 9 ft off the property line the garage is 17 ft and a little bit more off the property line the house never fit within the prescribed 50 foot building envelope just just a point of order uh the hous is built before the zoning ordinance yes sir preate zoning that's in Mr Hansen's review um and uh so preate zoning okay um what the applicant is looking to do first of all meets both C1 and C2 the C2 variants in the front with the garage is easy the existing garage is nonfunctional this is a million doll purchase price Plus for this applicant it's about to become a multi-million dollar house when it's done everyone wants a usable garage everyone wants Headroom on the garage so we're going to fix the doorway going on top to bottom nine foots of standard garage um with those uh deficiencies will be corrected by expanding this by just three and a half fet that sidey yard setback will relate um to the second floor as well in the back it's 14.25 feet the design idea here was a get a garage in the back that's workable it's also 9 feet wide for that garage door and use the same setback in the back that we're using in the front so we're talking about some symmetry from front to back with the back garage being um having slightly more of a setback and the front one okay um the overall width of the property is 100 feet as I said it's 200 feet long which is longer and deeper than what ra15 requires so we have the lot area we just don't have it in the right direction if the lot was 20 feet less deep and 20 feet wider these sidey yard setbacks go away okay but in order to do what's needed here um side yard set back relief is required um moreover as you heard from Mr Dorne um with planning with the architecture testimony um there are multitude of benefits on the job that vastly outweigh the detriment of the sidey setback variants either front or back um this uh is now being proposed as you see with slide 10 with just um world class residential architecture okay everybody would do it differently Mr Doran proposed what's a really nice traditional architectural product I've gone through your U building standards in Your Land Development ordinance he meets virtually everything there um their CPAs here shutters double hung Windows use of metal roofs panel doors um great fenra facade braks all over the place um and in a nutshell as he said he said I don't design ugly well this isn't ugly this is a really nice building um there are many other benefits including modernization of the house garages that finally work it's going to fix up heating um we're going to propose a multitude of landscaping fixes for the two neighbors that flank us um when you do this type of job um because it's so extensive you bring an old house virtually into complete Code Compliance okay so a 100- year old house um all of a sudden will be inspected um many times by the local building inspectors and Achieve at either full compliance or pretty close to full compliance um I want to talk about detriments on with the questions as you know being um is this a substantial detriment to the public good is it a substantial impairment to the zoning ordinance well it's not a substantial impairment to the zoning ordinance because virtually every zoning requirement for the zone is now met like I said sidey yard setf facts are the issue everything else is met um I want to talk about height for a second because Height's a big indicator of building Mass the existing or the proposed addition the main addition to the existing house and the proposed um dining room to the rear is a 332 foot building height 35 is the uh permitted condition so we're under it and we comply the ordinance also says no part of the building can exceed by 33% % the 35t standard it's usually what we apply for walk out basements so that the basement level walk out isn't let's say a 50 foot high uh roof line we meet that as well 33 FTS the proposed condition 33.5 um and 46.67 feet is the permitted condition now um what I'm sorry would you repeat that last one yeah about the 46 ft versus the 35 ft okay so the condition the height requirement um it's twofold 35 feet is a flat requirement and then your ordinance also says that no point around the house shall any part of the house be um 46.67 feet um or exceed that number in the ground right and that Mr benoir is simply 35 ft times 1.33 said it a third to the building it's to make sure no part of the house really gets big and hot for Neighbors dies okay we need it easly what is the highest point on the house uh from the ground right uh immediately below it you said it's 33 the uh 33.5 ft that's you said that's for the dining area what about for the um the garage and pool house uh 40.5 ft 40.5 yep okay um now the really um important news with this is we also looked at um Building height for the two proposed additions that get too close to the East Street property line addition B in the front that's what we'll call the old garage remember that's 14 feet proposed okay but this building is only 23 feet high okay what that means is we're 12 feet light on the height requirement um and we're asking you for a variance of about six feet off the side property L the lower a building gets the less impact a side yard setback variance is right because it's less massing same thing happens in the back it's not as pronounced but the rear addition and the rear new garage um at 14.2 feet 25 ft off the side property line is 30 ft High 35 ft is the requirement so it's 5 feet less than the requirement six feet light on the sidey setback again height has compensated a bit for the sidey yard deficiency okay um where is the 40.5 foot height located back of the um proposed garage Edition okay so that's 40.5 but the average is 30 based upon the sloping of the property is that correct right so what's happening Mr chairman remember what I said High Point on this site Spring Brook Road right if you walked all the way to the back Spring Brook yeah it's about a 20 foot drop from uh front left to uh or front right to uh rear left yep you got it and that's why that 40.5 foot Dimension is in the back because that's the lower part of the property okay and does that uh slope continue also in the neighbor's uh property also it continues to slope in her direction is that correct um to the property on the left that it's slopes off on that side guess okay so that 40 Point 40.5 foot uh structure where she is looking at it appears even higher than the 40.5 feet it's probably true okay um so um so anyway height compensates for sidey yard setback um that's why these sidey variances are reasonable there's another thing going on here um which is you heard some uh really strong testimony from Celia de Huff on Landscaping at the last meeting um what she is proposing um is a dense Landscaping plan on both side property lights um I I'll go through it in detail if you want but basically what she's talking about doing is adding Evergreen plant material along the easterly property line that will range up to from I think 6 feet to 25 feet at maturity she likes Green Giant Arbor VY um emerald green Arbor VY you all are familiar with arbs and they grow really abundantly most importantly um the 25 Footers are to be placed right adjacent to the new garage Edition at the back garage Edition a or building Edition a same you had your cursor on that driveway I talk to Bo about the fence and the transparent design can you point that out talk about that a little bit um so uh lower left of slide 10 um are two things one retaining walls um to hold our driveway up once you have a retaining wall you have to put a fence on it so people don't fall off the wall if the fence and the wall in height add up to more than six feet we need a variance we once needed a variance on this I think we're were at seven and a half to 9 feet when Kathy Muller changed the plans she all but eliminated uh retaining wall variances except we still have to put a three-foot fence on top of the wall that fence was going to be solid a few meetings ago since then I asked the team to spec out what's called a uh a cable railing system if you follow my pointer here it runs along the east side of the garage east side of the driveway I should say um returns to the back garage Edition build building Edition a and secures the wall cable railing systems are basically transparent systems when a f um is under 25% or more than 25% transparent it doesn't count with respect to Wall height so by doing this we've eliminated that uh Wall height variance for many months ago the other advantage of a cable railing system um is they're basically invisible okay when you get 10 15 feet away you look right through you will see the columns but that's what trans parency supposed to do and Dave that's why we don't need a a wall height variance anymore okay um let me just continue quickly um on the west side of the property which is not shown in the exhibit but um remember I told you there's a pool and pool deck shown upper left on the exhibit um the um applicant is also proposing on that side um 12 Arbor VY um along the pool deck in the back and then when you come along the addition on that side The Veranda um five Green Giant aror which Go 25 feet high according to miss Huff's testimony okay uh this is a very thorough Landscaping plan I've said to this board before it's not a detriment to see a single family home right we look at single family homes especially in a neighbor Hood like this that's not a bad thing but what's happened here is Mr doran's created a house that's really Pleasant to look at and Mr Huff has created a landscaping plan that will provide a really dense Evergreen buffer for the flanking neighbors um I'll say again um nearly every zoning requirement is met on the plan um this does also by the way you know I don't know if you all have parked on Springbrook uh it's a really tight Road um 23 foot wide cartway no parking well parking's permitted but parking's just not practical um when the landscaper trucks park on the road which is a daily occurrence it's chaos becomes a one lane road uh what's happened here is this applicant's adding more parking off Street between the proposed garage and this uh parking court now um so his visitors his family members and all can come and visit and at least get some of those cars off of Spring Brook Road that improves the parking condition in the neighborhood um we meet building coverage we're Below on impervious coverage by two and a half percentage points um I've shared with you the height requirements um importantly if you don't like this building if you don't like the way the addition looks you ain't going to see it from spring for RO anyway it's all in the backyard okay um I'll close um Mr Aller by my notes um this applicant is stipulated to five items one would be no apartment in the the rear building that was a concern of the the uh Neighbors in the audience that's pre that's prevented by zoning anyway but we would stipulate to that there was a concern about flood lights over the swimming pool we propos no flood lights and would accept the condition um that uh there be no flood lights back of the property will be lighted the way all other homes in the neighborhood are um lights over Mand doors um maybe a light in the pool but nothing overhead firing down I from the meeting where we said that I had B next so might be B lights or some lighting right we did talk about low like low voltage lower foot lighting low and height yeah um on the uh site plan Pro prepared by Miss Mueller um on the west side over near that existing office Edition um which is proposed to stay there's a drafting area there you may recall for some reason we're showing a couple of air conditioning condensers they don't exist so we want to eliminate that drafting error on the plans tell me that location again look uh west side or right side uh with the office bump out somewhere in there you see uh two little squares yeah you have two sets right yeah there's nothing there one not that location okay so we have to it to reflect so the four that are shown are not there but there's one somewhere on that side side we will fix it um in any event to um okay but that's today what about proposed are you adding air condition yeah the testimony by Mr Dorne was um are we replacing units yeah you're not adding additional so here's the office the the condensers are to the rear the question was are they to the side uh just talk just talk to uh your witness and then he'll explain it there are two large right here right one of them is not functional but they'll both be replaced about where your cursor is there's a small unit that's attached to a unit inside okay so we will correct the plans to properly reflect what's in the field okay um and then the only other thing we wanted to do we thought we would offer this um and it's a standard condition is um we're putting lot plant material in we would stipulate to a one-ear planting guarantee on everything being added so if a planter two don't make it um we'll replace them okay well why wouldn't that continue beyond one year I mean if if the buffering is so important here why wouldn't that continue why wouldn't there be a continuing buffer maintenance replacement obligation replace my right so you'd be okay with that okay right forever that's what we do on site plans for car dealerships it's forever okay fine Landscaping is forever it's not for Michael could you uh sounded to me like your testimony was that this should be analyzed under a C2 analysis did you list uh the so um sorry about that um so um yeah for the reason St Dave um go a CG i and m a c d i and m are being Advanced um AIS speaks to General Welfare um promotion of the general welfare when you fix a house up like this and eliminates so many problems and deficiencies create an architectural specimen um you are promoting the general welfare um c um says promote adequate air light and open space and I always like to point out that the land use law says adequate air light and open space doesn't say the maximum you know doesn't say the loot should be completely empty we think what we've done here with the 14t setbacks is especially given the Landscaping we're proposing so G says provide sufficient space and appropriate location for residential uses it's a residential Zone we're proposing a home um we're proposing a great looking home in a residential neighborhood I speaks to promoting a desirable visual environment uh I'll let slide 10 speak for itself but we think this is um as I said before just extraordinary architecture on the part of Mr Dorne um and M says uh seek to promote the more efficient use of land this is uh a 94 year old house um it needs some work a lot of people buy old homes to fix them up okay um it's um what's being done here is commendable it makes the house more efficient makes the neighborhood more attractive um and it makes everything on the site landscaping and all the amenities more efficient than what's out there now so those are the goals okay with regard to the negative criteria in statute you see any substance detriment to the public good nope and do you see any substantial impairment of the Zone plan or zoning or like I said we we're so close to full compliance Dave it's impossible for me to conclude that we're really in caring the content purpose of the and you've indicated that the building coverage the impervious coverage and the height are all compliant from a planning perspective does that have significance as to the the intensity or the extent of The Proposal so three biggest indicators of massing in any Zone any residentials any Zone um height building coverage impervious coverage other things like setbacks parking we you know we we take them all seriously but the three big indicators here are are all met um height doesn't even get to the maximum nor does impervious coverage I have no further questions okay um is there any other uh house in this neighborhood there where the uh uh existing structure extends so far back to the rear as uh the proposed structure here having studied that Mr chairman if you go out to the corner of Armstrong and Spring Brook you see some houses with pretty big boxes um that would probably do something like this but I haven't uh examined that all I can tell you is uh the U um designers on this have used the permitted building envelope going front to deck um isn't uh the maintenance of a neighborhood uh part of the general welfare uh under the uh planning guidelines yes okay and this house would be very very visible to the neighbor to the east is that correct this the extension listen Mr Dorne said it best when we proposed a five foot setback on this job going way back back a year rightor I remember he said you're going to see the house then he said when we go for fet off the sideline you're going to see the house and they said even if we went 20 feet off the sideline you're still going to see the house this is all about impact from the easterly side right but as something gets further away it's less intimidating and imposing upon a neighbor is that correct yes okay board members any other questions questions chairman I have a question yes um the view of the backyard shows two retaining walls a large retaining wall and then further back there's a smaller retaining wall and it looked to me like the first retaining wall was pretty large behind the pool what will be the retaining wall requirements I'm just wondering whether actually going to need a variance for any kind of retaining will behind yeah there's a little bit of GRA going on back there it's only a two foot high wall Mr V the furthest one back yes the one back near the rear property the first one looks pretty high well first one Peaks I think at uh first one Peaks at three feet that's it yep I looked at and it looks like it looks a lot higher it looks like what they're doing with part of that I don't know if Mr Hansen wants to chime in but I think there's some retaining going on with the back of that proposed garage that's then going to lead into the retaining wall that's three feet high yeah bottom the bottom level is acting as a as a retaining the lower patio in the pool area right okay so beyond that there won't be need for it's it's a very shallow slope down to the wall at near the back and that's only two foot high okay and then it's flat well as flat can be behind that it's going to be normal grade okay the existing grade all right thank that's the wall you you reminding me Mr benois in that backyard behind that little TW foot wall um testimony from uh Mr Huff said we have no disturbance back there so the plant material that's weighing in the back um is staying we're not doing graving back there or Paving or anything I recall that thank you that's all I have Mr chairman any other questions from board members just yes Mr chairman um so you talked about the fencing that will be at the front part of the property if you go down the easterly side is it going to be a different type of fence that will um kind of block out the view of the pool area or is it a similar type of fence and then there's going to be um different fence down there pool fencing requirements are met the ordinance has a separate requirement for pool fencing fourt High non climbable um and that's what encircles the pool area in the back and will there be landscaping around the fence that goes down the the side and around that pool area as well on each side of the pool okay East and West uh Mr Huff is div designed which he calls a triple hedge so on the outside are the arbores I talk about you go in one notch and you have hydrangea you go in one more and you have boxwood so the two the SEC the the hydrangea and the boxwood are more decorative for people on the pool deck looking out and then the arbor fiies do the heavy work right thank you okay any other board members with questions Mr Hansen any questions members of the public with any questions of this witness good evening Mr chairman um I'll put my appearance on the record again I'm John uron from shank price representing the neighbor at 42 Springbrook um Mr toia uh there was a lot of testimony in earlier meetings about the process in developing the plans for this house were you involved in in the planning stages of uh designing uh the additions to the house yeah um and uh you you spent a lot of time tonight reciting Mr doran's testimony one of the things that struck me about Mr Dorn's testimony is that he specifically testified that he designed the house the way he thought was best and then later on looked to see if it would fit within Morris Township's zoning code so you were pointing out the the footprint of the house in the available area for building so I'd just like to review that the house as it currently exists sits on a 100 foot wide uh lot is that right yes and the house is about 67 ft wide or at least the the extent of the footprint is about 67 ft wide it's correct yep and uh currently as the house exists there's 100 foot rear yard setback um I'll take your word for it but yeah it's about halfway back on the lot you're correct okay and when the uh in the plan even the plan that you have up now uh that is proposed to be reduced to a 60 foot uh setback in the rear yard um and you're asking me Mr arson yes um the proposed rear yard side do is that the question correct yeah you catch me with the the one dimension that's not called out on the plan hold on a second it's 54.7 ft okay so um the the point that I'm trying to make is the existing house uh occupied about 67 F feet of the width of the lot without going any further to either side and the plan that you have now that you've emphasized that large portions of the plan are compliant you had another 40ish or so feet to use in the backyard right accurate okay so you had 2600 feet or so of footprint where the addition could be planned and no variances would be required so you know nice question okay um are you going to answer it yeah that's true and um yet you know going further and you know Mr Dorne really should have been asked this question but going further back um moves what would be building addition a that's the new garage area into a spot let's say where the swimming pool is now okay we'd be going s south on the property uh to a location without having sketched it out that would be utterly impractical for what we're trying to achieve here okay I was just trying to emphasize uh your testimony because you were explaining to the board that the you were in compliance with most of the elements but yet even when you had that much square footage to work with you decided that the only possible place to put it was closer to my client's house I think that's an accurate remark I not when you say me not you right because you I'm asking you with a little bit of a hypothetical because you weren't involved in the planning process or maybe we wouldn't be here um you might have given some different advice I'm honored you might have told them how to make this a lot easier well listen um that's speculation so uh let's move on and ask question so Mr Mr Toby you um it was interesting at the end and we we'll come around but at the end you said that uh the looking at C2 and then looking at uh criteria a you said that it eliminates lots of problems and deficiencies corre okay and um in uh what we're calling addition a uh there's a second story onu bedroom how did how did that eliminate a problem or deficiency well I wouldn't well okay so what was explained is there are four bedrooms in this house now they're ancient they're not on Suite your Master's on site correct Master is on site three or not uh one of the design directives uh was to make them all on Suite on Suite means bedroom bathroom closet all in the same unit kind of like you get at a hotel um so that second floor bedroom above the uh uh uh building Edition a would help eliminate that one problem identified by Mr Dorne okay but I'm I'm I'm I am pointing out that you were indicating that it was a problem or deficiency as if it was a planning justification that you really really want on sweet bedrooms um listen it's a design challenge there's some things here that are not just that are not eliminating problems okay the design is to build a really nice house for the applicant um and that's that's one example of uh trying to make a fix and I think I think that's fair building a really nice house for the applicant but I'm sort of focused on the actual parts of the really really nice house for the applicant that impair The Zone plan and encroach towards my client's house so we just talked about the one on Suite but that wasn't enough so you also have an on Suite over addition B so in both encroachments into the side yard towards my client's house you got not just one on Suite to eliminate the problem or deficiency you're building a second on Suite bedroom that's correct okay and you planning testimony can it really be a planning justification that you really really needed two on Suite bedrooms to move into the sidey yard setback I think it can and remember you know the C2 argument takes in a basket of benefits as I explained um those are benefits they were challenges given to Mr Dorne they fixed those problems um and there are other things that fix problems and there are other things here Mr ersen like I said that are not fixing their problems they're building you know worldclass residential architecture yeah but that that's not a planning consideration or a justification for encroaching into the side yard setback with the Second Story twice you know I I want to hear this is the best way it was laid out by our architect um the encroachments are listen it's a board of adjustment their encroachments now that we feel are appropriate and then you know I did want everyone in the room to focus on the Landscaping that we feel will really soften the view from of both of those building additions and part of the encroaching uh area in addition a is the pool house that contains a kitchen for the pool house was that solving a problem or deficiency it's a kitchen at this is on the ground floor of um uh building Edition a as you may recall it has a sitting area in there kitchenet uh little bathroom um and it's to service the pool it's down at the grade level of the pool that's not solving any particular problem Mr Ur that's just designing a pool in the proper fashion okay so if you eliminated it and reduce that square footage it would encroach less well no remembering that your garage back there are you saying the so-called pool house so uh look I'm I'm you and I aren't The Architects and we already cross-examined Mr Dorne so we could ask a lot of questions about where you would put what right I'm not asking you that that's not fair I'm just asking you this is uh your testimony which I completely understood talked about the massing of the structure the various uses but you know uh I don't mean this as criticism because I think you're making the best argument but you're lumping all of these things very quickly together and saying that they're eliminating problems and deficiencies and I'm just trying to point out that most of the things that are in these additional areas that encroach towards my client's house are quite luxuries not solving deficiencies and problems uh fair enough remember it's the applicant's property okay and this is his vision he's been working on it for a couple of years um this house when it's built will be a luxury house yeah I understand and I I understand I understand the applicant wants what he wants and that's fair and he's here asking for it but I'm I'm just trying to focus on from planning testimony that we should be dividing what's a luxury and what is actually solving a problem or deficiency and for example one of the things that if you you look at the plan that you have up now one of the things that moves addition a closer to the property line is that really fantastic octagon dining room so if that octagon dining room was square or rectangular the entire you could have everything you wanted in addition a and it could be moved over 7 feet and again I'm not asking that as an architectural question I'm asking you whether the Octagon dining room is solving a problem or deficiency sufficient to justify a variance um so you weren't at the first hearing um your partner was Mr MC Pryer yes at that hearing uh Mr euwing spoke he was our lead witness and he explained the inspiration behind the oon uh dining room okay this goes to a story out in Illinois as I recall um this is his property okay it's his house this is his design that is um that's only 20t um left to right okay okay um reduced in size from that first meeting after listening to what the board had to share um and listen you're completely right there there are 20 ways to design this thing uh there are probably 20 that were made before we even got to the board this is what the applicants chosen to present now um emphasizing remember what I said a lot of plant material along the property line and the two additions you're concerned about have reduced height in fact what happened U Mr gon with uh a building addition a uh as we went from our first Plan before this board to the second one we turned the roof sideways because we know when the Gable faces parallel to a lot line it reduces massing than when you show the high side facing the property line so we're trying to do our best you and I I thought you said something that was important which also think is true you said twice that if you lower the building height it gets less impact so if you eliminated the uh on Suite bedroom in addition a that would have a lot less impact on the neighboring property it's not on the table but you're asking me if I take a top floor off that building will it be less massing yes okay yes could you would you mind you you just mentioned the the Landscaping could you go to your five do you do you have that you're talking about the photograph right yes okay yeah in your PowerPoint I think it was five is this what you want yes Slide Five yeah so board members this is um Slide Five from Spring Brook Road looking at the front of the garage garage doors right now are behind the building I'm sorry okay so Mr toia um again you did a good job of um summarizing ring and reminding the board of the Landscape Architects testimony and I agree that was a lot of testimony and it was a lot of plantings but you would you would agree that right now this is the Line This is the property line between 42 um between 40 and 42 with my client's property being behind this uh this uh look I call it a hedro because I'm not a landscape architect you agree that there's significant existing buffering between 40 and 42 at this point um is that 42 or is that 382 42 to the east okay I just want record clear so you're talking about the house to the east of the site listen um the answer is maybe that's a good photograph okay shot in May um the stuff right along the driveway there are lowline shrubs you should have in there aelas rotos maybe a couple boxwoods they're three four four feet high it's pretty okay and it's nice it's not going to be what what M Huff uh proposes which is going to have a lot more verticality to it so that that's what I was going to ask you you I I was trying to get you to agree with me that that that was a lot of buffering with you listen it's a lot of buffering at at um at grade okay okay um and the uh but clearly even though there's quite a lot of effort with respect to the landscape architect there will be less buffering under the Landscape Architects plan than what exists here now no no no um this would come out um what's going in here just so you know let me just slow it down a second okay um where those uh shrubs are um and remember the testimony is that low line stuff will come out has to be removed it will be placed in front of the garage uh building Edition B which is roughly where the existing garage is now by 15 uh arborite growing to 10 feet high was the testimony so the buffer is going to be improved vertically in that area and then when you go back behind building Edition b along the whole so-called parking Court she's got 11 Arbor um growing to 15 ft High okay and then um further back in the vicinity of G uh building Edition a she has four more in that case uh really big ones going 25 feet high so uh when you put addition B is the addition that goes over the lower section that we can see right here okay so as it stands right now there's quite a bit of buffering that's as tall as that and you were illustrating that there's going to be 10 foot arborite along that section yes it will be taller than what's out there now um hold on one second if you don't mind um okay so now I'm on slide seven Mr arson um this gives you a better idea of what's out there now you can see at best it's probably chest high on me um and in this area this this is where she has proposed things up to 25 ft height when you were uh turning to your planning testimony you said that the C2 uh criteria was met easily uh because of the usable garage am I is that correct among other benefits yes okay um so and your testimony was that uh Springbrook is not a great place to park and that additional parking required so so if the justification for um the variance was parking you could have certainly made additional parking spaces that would have accomplished the same objective you mean build a parking lot instead of the garage in the back is that yes it's lower that's another option you you also mentioned at one point that because I'm sorry would you mind flipping back to five from me thank you um you mentioned at one point that with the three foot addition to addition B that the sidey yard would be reduced to 14 ft and then you said um that for symmetry you were also going to encroach to 14t in the back but that's symmetry isn't a isn't a planning objective and there's no there's no real it's there's no real necessity that uh you encroach 14 feet in the back the same way you're encroaching 14 feet in the front it's a u design preference expressed by um Mr Doran and let me show you in plan form if you don't mind so uh what the gentleman is saying board members is our addition in the front addition B um that that uh building setback line came right back I'm looking at the site plan now and was basically mimicked in the back it gets about uh three more inches further away from the property line in the back there was other stuff explained here Mr Ur if you don't mind um pushing this parking module further west either pinch the the dining room you mentioned before eliminated this architectural bridge that Mr Dorne thought was very attractive and miss meller this is going way back now but she said the further this uh addition a went to the west or to the right as you see it on the plan the more difficult it would be to get cars out of that new garage and into the driveway to exit we're back on slide five and Mr toia when you um uh I think uh the chairman asked you the question immediately after your testimony um normally when you testify with these types of variances where the size of the house and the size of the lot and the impact to the neighbors is a major factor uh you would almost always do a survey of the community the street the sizes of the house um you would you would present a uh a graphic that would show that what you're opposing fits in with the neighborhood it's not impairing the community you would normally do that well sometimes I do sometimes I don't you're correct um you know one way to evaluate um whether it fits or not is zoning compliance okay um that's why I went through that long list of things that we do meet the zoning is what is established to protect the neighborhood um once we got to this point where we realized we only have 14ot setbacks to deal with off the one side and we never minimized those setback variances but there was no need to look further this is what's permitted by Z so but Mr toia you if we were if you and I were just talking about the character of a neighborhood you would not argue that maximizing every inch of the footprint of a house to build what you want would be the measure of the character of the neighborhood you would give me the square footages of the 10 houses to the East and the 10 houses to the right and you would and you would say that you know that that's the average house size you would not be saying maximizing the footprint under existing zoning would be the character of the neighborhood um you know the answer is it depends okay there are some homes in this area down there Armstrong that are every bit as big as this property uh what's proposed uh there are some you know smaller than what Mr Ying's proposing um and in the end you know zoning is there as you know is a police power it's there to protect the neighborhood don't think by the way we maxed out on everything you know we could have gone higher on this building could have done more coverage we could have built further into the backyard uh we in some indicators did Max out such as building coverage and others we did not push it thank you Mr toia Mr chairman I don't have any other questions Mr thank you any other members of the public with questions Mr Wade please give your name identify yourself where you live Richard Wade 46 Springbrook Road what is the approximate square footage of the house now 4900 I'm sorry I'm sorry now we're propos now um I think that's why you ask me another question I'll look it up later what is the proposed square footage 4,900 square feet and you would agree with me that house is larger than the average house in the neighborhood um it's um larger than some comparable to others the existing is 3220 3,220 Mr R okay and uh I believe in your testimony is the driveway would be moved over three feet to the east oh roughly yes and that would be to the seller's property the seller's property to the east and by moving it over three feet you're moving the driveway over closer to her house three feet corre and uh would you agree with me that at present conditions you could park six or seven cars in that driveway if you stacked Park them all the way down the driveway you probably could do that yet yeah so if you had a party and you had car stacked you could stack five or six cars without going on the street correct if stack yes yes M and uh at present the garage is non-functional yes and so for the last 30 or 40 years this house has transferred ownership and it's been nonfunctional I'm sure uh people have made doe somehow some way with it small cars can get in there um but uh the standard module for that kind of garage is 24 by 24 9 foot wide garage doors 7 feet high this doesn't have any of that and that's today's standards when this house was built 75 years ago U more like 93 94 years ago yes and you would agree with me the cars in the 60s and 70s are larger than the cars are today in most cases no some of them were I got an SUV that wouldn't fit in there if there was only one Bay uh so some were bigger some were smaller and we didn't have SUV back then and to your knowledge uh the applicant is the first one to try to increase the size of the garage I don't know the answer to that okay and uh could you go to I think Slide Five please I just slide five okay that is s five want to go to the other one that was seven seven then try seven no the one I'm sorry which is the one with the uh the house the whole you want the rendering ring of the house side 10 I'm sorry side 10 okay now there's a door to the to the right of the of the garage glass door there's a man door is that what you mean yes that's what you call there yes and you walk in that and watch go upstairs you can go upstairs um and you can go straight into the dining room and loop around to the kitchen okay and uh we move the uh garage three feet closer in this seller's house and then we decide to build a bedroom on top of it correct so if we just moov the garage Out 3 feet and didn't put a a bedroom on top it would just be a single story structure so as I said there are a multitude of design options that could take place this is the one before the board and most of these design options did not take into consideration the planning thank you okay any other members of the public with questions L nent Leanne nen 38 Spring Brook Road since you have this slide up there's been a lot of talk about vegetation on the East but not on the west and no accounting for the grade of that our property is at a higher elevation uh in that rendering there is still that large Evergreen in the back corner that was proposed by the landscape architect Tech to be removed was it not that is a shown on the landscape plan to remain and what Miss nent is talking about tell me if I'm right please um let me try what just happened last slide all of the vegetation along the back right hold on Miss n if you don't mind yes this is the Evergreen you're talking about that long that's shown on the plan to remain okay the one that she had displayed it was removed but plan in the back corner says um 6 in tree to remain um and a lot of plant material coming up your your your common property line remember our board members on this rendering um we did not add the proposed plant material cuz it would have hidden the the building and then you know you wouldn't have seen too much there was though along there I'm trying to go to my photos from my property that along that border you mentioned the green Giants but that there was also the arbores and she claimed that she was going to keep it manicured at a six foot height now a six foot height from Mr Ying's property looking he's at a lower elevation that's wonderful for his view but from our elevation much higher that's not hold on a second please um so what we're going to do here we're going to go back to the site plan okay um and uh what's going on here let me just go through it with you um carefully back near the pool um this is the southwest corner of the lot um 12 Green Giant plants are proposed along this property line green Giants are Arbor vites it's just a I understand that okay so 12 there and you're correct they were to be held at six feet high she called that shearing yes right just flat yes good good um and then the big news for you is um along the main body of the addition the midsection of the lot next to you is where she proposed five green Giants um that you would let grow planted at 15 feet high and going to 25 feet high okay right hold on hold on go ahead um and what about the width of those Green Giant AR variety the width gets wide is there even that room this room what's what's shown on the plan um is all on Mr Ying side of the property um not to mention but you know green John at that size is probably going to get I don't know three feet in diameter maybe a little more I did research and I found much larger than that um uh you also mentioned that there would be a plan that if Mr Ying's vegetation there would be a continuing vegetation replacement plan now what about the impact on the root system of our trees along that property line when these are all everything else is taken out I have two and there you can see them established cherry trees that are I don't know how old and how large I have Laurels that protect us I have a long Our Deck a large uh Evergreen we look down we will be looking down on this patio and this pool and what happens if my vegetation dies if our that's our fence gets Disturbed what kind of guarantees do we have on the west side with all of this upheaval remember I want you when you look at your fence um out in your yard it's about 3 feet off the property line it's 3 feet into your property then your plant material starts further inside U that means that those trees the three circles um that you're talking about um for the record you have a 12 an eight and a 12 running along that property line they're probably six feet off the property line to begin with then the plant material Mr Huff is going to add is going to be several feet inside the property line okay um she exp I can't go through all this she explained their ways to plant these root balls to protect outside roots and she's really skilled she's gonna do that what guarantees for because our root systems on these trees are extensive what guarantees we'll let the board figure that out now listen I will tell you this when Mr yui spoke a year ago when he testified he said I'm not a bad neighbor okay he proposed um conceptually even planting on your property planting on the seller's property to demonstrate he's not a bad neighbor that never got off the ground but the guy's going to do the right thing you um if there's some way Mr Aller can formulate a guarantee on that we'll let you all hand it so we came home maybe two months ago to find Mr Ying's landscapers on our property sharing our front Holly trees removing our ground cover and it was making a hole between the Privacy between our two front yards and it was too late for us to stop it I tried to contact I left messages with Mr Ying's landscaper who will not return my calls and I have photos of this but it was too late I don't know what kind of relationship um Mr chairman now we're getting into testimony I we we are but I think there's a question she's asking about guarantees and I think she's just backing up the question so I'll let the witness answer it never guarantee what a landscaper may do not being well that's what she's the problem she's addressing my relationship with my landscapers multiple ones over 20 years I I have Pro of that I have a great relationship with my landscaper because I do it myself mine as well um I some other thoughts about is are we at the point that we can no it's not Tes questions right now questions it's still questions you have a chance at the end of all the test okay all of the the um applicants uh testimony for the public uh to present uh any testimony or any comments they wish to make so I still question the square footage because Mr Dorn's you say now 4,900 square feet Mr Dorn's assistant claimed that the whole property was I'm getting to the right slide I think it was sorry 6916 square feet there's nothing on these plans with total square footage so being an engineer I did my own calculations adding square footage and doing square footage I got 6915 so I'm just questioning where the 4,900 square feet comes okay U it's uh the heated living space in the house is 4900 that other number which I just checked included garage space and basement space and got you up to um what do you say 6,900 um so I removed garage space and even if I remove the mechanic room it's 6824 without so that's all heated so I'm that's my question because there seems to be discrepancy in all of that these numbers are they're not on the U site plan which is up on the monitor now they are on the architectural plans and the numbers were checked with Mr doran's office um before I testify Mr Hansen is there like and also the tax record gives the existing home is 3465 Square fet not 32 so that's a discrepancy um we keep coming back to the parking and you keep claiming that there is no parking on the street I just had friends over who parked on the street Friday night you got ask question question have you considered has Mr Ying considered for parking similar to number 50 that's on 1.85 Acres they have parking that goes into the front yard they brought a bay in for cars so they do not have to be stacked on the driveway and they have quite a bit more property has that been considered well no um and you just answered your question that's a big property compared to this one um putting parking in front of this property um would would just be an architectural BL well I'm pointing out it's a big property and there are other areas for them to go too and this this is not a big property the what did you say 50 springb yes 1.3 Acres 1.85 and they brought the parking into the front yard this is um just so you know this is a half an acre this piece I know it's less than that 20,000 sareet um so it's much smaller than the one you're mentioning we can't do that here why not we'd be Paving the front yard we don't like do you can bring why not right in front of the garage that's an answer no we have our plan yes it's a plan but it could be done so miss Nan you asked your question that's his answer okay um all of the height statements that you have made have been from always measured to the dining room like the bottom of the you know from one addition to the dining room never from the lowest point to the highest point never really because the addition a is half a story lower than the main house really the entire structure making the entire structure a three and a half story home and that so all of your comparisons are always to that octagonal dining room okay let me clear that up um the ordinance requires height to be measured to the top of roof which on this type of house means to the peak every one of the numbers I presented to the board before was measured from the peak which Peak I'm sorry well each individual let me go to the uh let me go to the rendering again um okay can you see that so each part of um the house as you know has a different Peak so when we calculated it we measured and Peak means the ridge okay um we use each individual Ridge on the additions and on the main uh house uh for a point of measure consistent with the ordinance isn't the ordinance a three-story home no larger height is not regulated by number of stories but isn't there an ordinance in our town that's regulates because when we were looking at doing work on our house existing structure we were not going to change anything but put some Dormers and make our attic a living space and we could not without a variant because we have a walk out basement because then it would be considered larger than three stories I can't so that's you want to show me the plant I'll tell you what WR Mr hon the um it's hard to believe um the um Dave I didn't hear that he'll get back at me someday height before me oh question was before I became Z off height in this zone is measured in number of feet 35 is the the metric 35 feet and that's what all the my analysis was based on that number can we look into stories ordinance in the town well um would be Mr rer and Mr Hansen thank you um are aror trees acceptable screening to pools yes because it was my understanding they are not we let you put on your testimony later but my yes answer is because they grow so dense uh they establish the Privacy that we want visual [Applause] speak Michael let me just get back to it's ra15 correct yes yep ra5 Building height is 35 feet Max what happens just so everyone understands if you look at all single family zones Mr Aller it's 35 ft number of stories is a control in many other Z in town yeah your townhouse zones apartment zones commercial zones do use number of stories as a control just not the residential zones single family Zone we were told next door on the other side of us was okay they have a walk out basement but it was okay that their attic was a living space and we have only been here seven our renovation is not even seven years old can and height is measured you know I'm not measuring height I'm measuring stories yeah but it's not it's not the ordinance doesn't talk about stories it only talks about 35 feet in height and height is measured from the peak to to uh all four corners and 20 feet out so you might have more slope than he does like I don't know what the issue was okay it was just stories okay um you keep talking about detriment that there's no substantial impairment or detriment you do not do you ever consider and mention the substantial detriment to the adjacent neighbors and what this massive structure on a small piece of property what kind of hardship has been presented that this is needed question okay well break them down please one one question at a time substantial detriment is my question to neighbors it has not been considered by you from it what I have read here and what I have heard so no it's been considered thoroughly the whole reason for our landscape plan is for the Neighbors yeah the whole the whole reason for the landscape plan is to provide buffering to the neighbors soften the view of the homes from both sides and the pool and so on um and remember in in my line of word the emphasis is on the word substantial okay the question for me in plain language is always is it a really bad thing okay are those two additions a really bad thing for the Neighbors my answer is no how is a six- foot hedge when I'm at such a high elevation a benefit to soften any view from me it doesn't okay you're you're testifying you got to ask question do it no remember that's not fair the hedges go to 15 feet in certain strategic areas to 25 feet in other areas and down way in the back to six feet that Parts accurate but you're talking about plant material here that's been designed first of all to be buy to to be purchased oversized and selected because we know how aggressive they are as Growers and to me cured well remember the plan said sheare this and share that that will be Mr y's responsibility it would be better to grow um so then the other question is now I've lost my tree with the two questions um you asked what was the hardship yes what is the hardship thank you what is really the hardship and ask the question can you please let answer yeah you ask the question you got sorry so there is no claim of hardship here okay thank you um I have one last question that's all right thank you thank you any other members of the public with questions so I just want to go back to that answer so Michael are you saying that there's no C1 variance request here remember C1 does talk about hardship this new's correct it also talks about practical difficulty based on size shape narrowness of the property and what we're saying is from a practical standpoint okay how can an applicant meet nearly every single zoning control but one and be denied the use of his property that i' assign more to the argument of practical difficulties be practical okay uh this guy has done a plan here that meets everything um importantly and height kept heght down um and strict application of that zoning standard on sidey would mean he can't do this proposal everyone board members would design this site and come up with a different plan it's totally acknowledged this is the plan it's this guy's property it's the applicant's property um this is what he's envisioned and by the way we don't want to muddy the waters here but we really chopped this thing up we gave it a big haircut from the beginning of the project on both sides there was an office Edition going in on the west side of this that would have taken down the old office built a new one got resistance from the board and the public and we eliminated it okay and the the two additions that were just spoke about by Miss nent um were once five feet off well the backbone was 5 feet off the property line it's too much so we moved it all the way back to 14 feet so we've been a lot here to address the neighborhood uh board members based upon questions from the public any more questions Mr Hanson any question oh wait a minute there there's one more person wishing to ask questions thank you oh there's a couple more sorry Joan can you give us our name your name please my name is Joan Ferrari I live at six Spring Hill um I have a couple of questions one is what is the purpose of a setback in in your vernacular so yeah the idea is so that homes don't get too close together and uh create crowding and Shadow effect and things like that are there any are there any fire regulations fire considerations some some communities have regulations where you've got to have enough clearance for fire equipment to go between the houses the the only fire code requirement I know is that houses like this can't be within five feet of the property line in which case um fire resistant windows and doors are required and things like that um in terms of Access Fire access and this is a little bit far a field from what I do for a living but there's no real concern here fire is going to be fight fought from the street um onto the propertyan fire trucks are not driving down this driveway to the back of the house really really okay that sounds strange um then the uh I I'm oh I was I'm confused about the erress to the the parking area that you put as the second the second level is that uh addition a yes and the part because what I remember was a pool house that was and there were three levels and so the and and I don't remember that it was so connected with the ground level that that second level was so connected with the ground level can you tell me how that what that eress is now so um the garages as you might imagine are built right at the grade of the driveway because cars have to get in and out um in the back there's a basement level underneath the garage right that you cannot see from the illustration up which is slide 10 that's because it's underground is that the same same grade level as the pool housee first first level the so-called pool house um is at that level yes okay okay so what would happen and it's not a pool house okay it's a it's a room in a basement with some furniture kitchenet um and pool house equipment put the pool house equipment inside so it wouldn't make noise for The Neighbors that's one level down and that's the level where the pool would be built so you'll come out that basement level walk to the pool right but where what is the parking in that area then no parking back there parking's one level above that but where that's what I'm asking what's what's the eess to that parking level where is it I'm I'm completely confused yeah that's right we'll get you through it look at um the slide that's up on the monitor now um spring BR RS off to your right okay so you would come down the driveway and if you can see my pointer right about there you would get into this garage through the garage door yeah to the right of it is a man door right that just means a door you open by hand you go in and then the other garage which is at the back of the front edition Edition B would have two garage doors they're not in the illustration now you also get in back there um through the two other garage does okay so the the parking igress is on the other side of the front building front edition okay well that's clears it up a little bit um thank you then uh the in in some past testimonies it was testified that the I don't know what to call it it was pool housee at that time but uh it was connected it actually was an extension of the main house and was connected with a passageway is that has that changed no that is accurate okay so that's still there's a staircase that would allow you to walk upstairs the whole everything that side has all stayed the same it's all stayed the same the idea is to get people in and out of the house in a modern fashion meaning you wouldn't have to walk out of the garage go outside get your keys out go back in your front door that's all been eliminated by this plan the problem of getting in and out of the house through the garages is now fixed by a plan that has interior connections from the garages to the house okay so that the connection to that that outside building that extension of the house is still that single passageway by passageway if you mean the little Bridge connector you're correct okay that's not changed that's the same as it has been right long ago that might have been a bit longer so many months but the same idea is there that it connects from the garage through to the dining room I just date back to the last meeting oh no it was the same then yes I'm sorry okay um and then do you know how many other homes this is a Halfacre lot or maybe a tiny bit less do you know how many other homes of this size are on Halfacre Lots we have not looked at that was that something that you would consider doing um or no listen I I think what I said before is the fact that we're so compliant with zoning means we can build a house of this size okay um in other cases and more complex cases i' go and study in neighborhood um but this fits on the site um and we're confident with what's now finally been designed as appropriate for the property it just appears to me looking at the uh I can see that one I can't see this one it's the same one um it it looks as though it just fills up the lot that there's there's so little clearance on either side that it just fills the lot up so if you were if you were doing an architectural model of it was that done at all do you know we illustrations like this have been done by Mr Ying's architect for a year but did he do a three-dimensional I I don't know construction of any kind okay um let me think the U okay a lot a lot of my questions were connected because I didn't didn't understand that degress um then I had asked I had asked the last time whether there was a definition of residence if if if a a building had has uh has utilities has kitchen has bathroom has Public public space and and easy entrance is that a residence did did has the board done any kind of search on that for me I can you want me to read the definition is that do you have it yes I do oh good last time no one did um okay so this is the definition of um uh sing one family dwelling okay and all it says is a building occupied or intended for occupancy exclusively for one family or one household with direct access from the outside and further provided that cooking sleeping and sanitary facilities uh for the exclusive use of the occupants of the unit this is in fact one building correct says one building one household yep so how does this not qualify this pool house or whatever it's called now how does that not qualify as a residents um first of all board members you remember I wasn't on this when it first got started this thing down on the basement level never should have been called a pool house pool house is a separate structure rure out near a pool we call them Cabanas um and they are separate buildings devoted to pool use this is a single room in a basement that happens to be at the level of the pool and is mighty handy for providing a shower sitting area changing area and importantly putting all the pool equipment inside the building you won't hear the pool equipment because it's inside the building it's a basement it's a room in a basement so it's not a um pool housee that's just a label on the plans um and we're there was some concern about this being a separate apartment is illegal Mr eu's not going to do it no one's living down there because we have four bedrooms upstairs where people are going to stay his his family members and his friends um and it's just a support room for the pool so the other part the other levels of that that building are going to really be attached to the house this this whole house is one continuous building everything's attached Okie do uh and then um what's the square footage of the roofing of the who of the roofs What's the total square footage of the roofing Roofing the roof the total roofs yeah 5,000 square fet 6,000 square ft 700,000 if talking about this the size of the house I gave those numbers before as proposed were at about 4900 square feet no I'm just I'm at just asking what the square footage of the roofing is not I I don't we don't know that answer I've never it's funny you asked that I've never heard that question before ever um really yeah I don't know you mean all those Peaks and all that is that what you want no just how much how much roofing how what what's the square footage of the roof that's all never mind I just it's all right it's irrelevant you got me since nobody knows it it's got to be a revolent uh all right and then the last thing is the uh total percentage of coverage on the loot I think you had that I got it's a 42 um1 18% 42.8% okay all right thank you very much thank you for your questions thank you for the definition of while the next is coming up like put that in perspective What's um it's 45% and uh 42 eight proposed so we're we're light by almost three percentage points okay you have your name please Gloria carsten k a r s t n nine Spring Brook I'm sorry I forgot where I live nine Spring Hill Lane my question is in our area in the spring brick area can you tell us approximately how many houses have all their bedrooms on Suite I can I would suspect it is less testimony you can ask questions okay um can anybody okay I well I would like that researched because the premise here is that that is one of the major improvements which is clearly a luxury Improvement okay that's that's a statement also you got to ask a question in there I'm sorry I couldn't hear you you have to ask a question you're making statements okay uh what justifies the addition of all these luxury amenities rather than need to have amenities so that we should approve these zoning variances I'm gonna ask I'm gonna object to that question there's nothing in the zoning ordinance or in the municipal land use law that distinguishes between luxuries and non- luxuries Garden I'm G I'm going to let them answer it I know it's been asked before but you can answer the question I'm going to move in the same direction we are not trying to justify this project by luxury be clear there are luxurious houses in this neighborhood that's why it's the Springbrook neighborhood okay um a couple members of the public have characterized this in that as luxurious maybe they are maybe they're not the rationale for the variances is not dependent on luxury which is a totally arbitrary term anyway when it comes to zoning okay but do the luxuries warrant the encroachment on the other neighbors that's my question yeah okay that's a good question the site geometry warrants it um the way uh the applicant has laid out the buildings warrants it proposed Landscaping warrants it and the building height warrants it not much okay and again my last question the overall question is it's been acknowledged that the property is already grandfathered and is currently ly violating numerous variances why given what we've discussed should any more variances be given that that's beyond his scope he he's already testified about what the reasons why underneath the uh land use laws as to why he says it's proposed and should be accepted um We're Not Gon to have a whole debate about uh land use laws and uh their history thank you yes sir your name uh Jack Ben vent uh Armstrong Road can you spell that please uh b n v NT I just have one quick question it was triggered by one of the comments before um the width of the house seems to be what we're talking about here and she was asking about the fire equipment and everything is a more practical matter somebody who lives in the neighborhood the landscapers the pool people the people have to come every day and do work is there going to be enough room for them uh especially when you have green Giants and what may happen is uh the landscapers who come by once a week are going to take their large tractors and they're not going to be against this man's house they're gonna be underneath the windows of the people who live next door is that is that something that's considered the the noise the fume the F answer the question I'm sorry landscapers are used that seemingly every house in the neighborhood there if you do-it-yourselfers like the chairman right they park on the street they'll do the same thing here the driveway is a standard 10 foot wide driveway leading into the house does it go into the back though can you get yes oh yeah go all the way into the back and um you know smaller um um vendors and uh contractors will be able to use Mr eu's driveway um just like every other house in the neighborhood um so we see this all the time landscapers will typically park on the other side of the street um and uh it's just like the street I live in you slow down it goes to single Lane and people share the road um the answer to the question is Mr y's going to maintain this just the way everybody else does yeah I just want to make sure there's a place for them to go I'm because looking when I look on the picture here to my eyes it looks and maybe I'm not reading it correctly um they'd have to go around the house and down down the slope is that correct so yeah they if they came down the street if you can follow my pointer slide 10 they would come straight down the driveway on the easterly side of the house into this little Courtyard in the back do their business do their work see my pointer right there yep um and then they would exit the way this is designed no one should be pulling out of this driveway in Reverse everyone's going out but I mean the actual tractors have to go around the other side over here no yes and that's what they do that's they do the house Mr eing Mr let the witness answer you're not under Earth just forse cross examining you all night so um the answer is yes that's what they do now that's what they'll continue to do but there'll be less room no no no no there's a driveway on the left side of this house right now um and um there'll be the same amount of room same amount of room on the street for parking and basically they're gonna operate um just the way they do it Mr Ben can you repeat your address please 14 Armstrong thank you okay any any other members of the public yes sir couple quick questions my name is Bill Robinson nine Spring Hill Lane and basically want to build off of two points questions that were made before one to answer the question that was mism made just made could we see the plan the the you know plan not the the drawings because that would show where the tractors and stuff could go is that what you want so so his point was it doesn't look like there's enough room um um between the property lines for tractors to go am I right is that what your comment was yeah so maybe you could use your pointer to show it's how that works so um spring brick road is at the bottom of the plan here right okay we're talking to the site plan now um on the easterly side of the house exactly where it is now it's a triway that Services Mr Ying's property it runs north to south along the east side of the property and any equipment of a smaller nature is going to come down that driveway to do whatever they do landscaping and maintenance large Vehicles just like every other house on the street and a park on the street and bring their smaller equipment onto the site but the point is it looks like going to the end of the driveway there's a wall you're not going that's point on the right hand side how much space is there between property line and that long this wall here office right side right side Mike taking in just can I ask one just taking into account the proposed Landscaping there right exactly so the setback um first of all is 15.4 feet from the existing office bump out shown thus on slide uh around the site plan to the property line Michael I think you go down to 13.3 at that wall further back you go back in the back along the pool what does that say so the back in the the setback in the back is 20.8 ft and a 6 foot adjustment for the staircase so that's about 14 ft well it says 13.3 and then what how do you adjust for the Landscaping you're saying 13.3 to the wall in the back from from the property line because I don't think that's measured from the fence it's the property line to that wall I got you right 133 so you have you have to subtract out whatever the spacing is for the fence that might just be 6 in and then you know the the real question is you're you're putting it substantial Landscaping down that row so how wide would that be there's that's that scales to approximately 5 feet uh down that back line um and I don't know if we've gotten the Landscaping that yet that might just be a lawn condition back there or it might be something we do back there that doesn't you'd have about eight feet to bring a lawn tractor down that rout yeah right and the fact is whatever it is they're going to have to equip them back there if somebody has to push a lawn mower back there two and a half feet wide or three feet wide that's what they're going to have to do okay okay any other questions yes second question building off of Mrs Ferrari's comment she was asking about the roof area I want to ask that slightly differently the footprint of the roofed property if you will the square footage of the covered property what is that amount building coverage building there you go building coverage that's easy um yeah I know that's on the site plan uh down at the bottom Mr Robinson and it is um 3,987 Square ft okay and how does that compare with other houses the same street that has not been studied okay should it be or so that number um is under what's permitted by Zone slightly but it's under it's not a variance condition okay okay all right all right thank you thank you any other members of the public with questions if not close the public portion do you have any other Witnesses no I don't have any other Witnesses but maybe two or three followup question sure there's been questions about the size of the house Mike are there any metrics or controls within the zoning ordinance that limit the size of a house can't be over so many square feet or some other method no um there was also questions regarding the view of the pool is there any requirement that you know of that that requires that pool be streamed from na um no what happens with pools is they have to meet the setbacks of homes in the zone okay which means 20 feet from the side yard 25 feet from the back in this case the pool meets all those in fact on the easterly side the pool setback is twice what's required by The Zone in the back it's roughly 50% more than what's required by the zone so the pool's fully compliant and and buffer if I was to pull a permit for a fully compliant pool there's no requirement I screen it at all is it I have to put fence around it for saf correct you're GNA have to get a zoning permit from Mr Hansen um they that in that scenario that the applicant would not be coming before this spard and there was some comments made both the prior hearings and tonight about the garage and that it was built in the 1930s and it seemed to be okay is that how planner look at things that were built 80 or 90 years ago when tastes and styles and requirements things change real estate's a dynamic field home ownership's a dynamic field some people like Mr Ying buy a house thinking they're going to fix it up they want to fix it up old improvements like that garage which is you know now might have been a great idea 80 years ago it's just terribly Antiquated and would be um best if it was completely rebuilt as all my questions okay board members any other questions Mr Hansen any questions no okay Mr chairman uh Mr toia was my only witness for tonight all right uh Council yes uh I understand you had some two proposed witnesses that are not here tonight correct yeah so so Mr chairman um I I don't know how late the board normally goes I know there's other neighbors who probably want to give testimony um I intend to call my client and give some fairly structured testimony I tend to move pretty quickly so if we came back uh if I could present Miss sellers at an upcoming meeting I would present her and the two witnesses and I suspect that I'll be an hour isue okay so as far as members of the public you wish to reserve until the next meeting because it's 20 to1 now uh but we could take other members of the public who may wish to testify is that I I'd frankly like Mr chairman to finish tonight we've got a year well dve we we end at 10 and it's 20 to 10 and just based on the cross examination I don't think we're going to get through the public tonight Mr Ur end up having to go over into hopefully January I'd like to at least then follow the lead and at least have other members of the public uh go through their testimony yeah I think we could start the public I think we could start the public yes break first you want you want a five minute break very nice no break let's go so do you wish to have a five do you need a five minute break okay we'll take a five minute break Mr Goldberg here Mr tractenberg here miss Simmons here Mr Schuster here Mr benoir here Mr Kramer here Mr Woodford here Mr rer here Mr Hansen here and M POA okay and Santiago here right okay uh any members of the public who wish to testify on this application please form a line by the microphone Mr Wade sorry you're up all right Richard Wade 46 Springbrook Road mors Township so Mr Wade would you raise your right hand please do you Solly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you got I do thank you I have lived in the Spring Brook neighborhood for some 15 to 18 years and there's a reason why I live there it's because of the character of the neighborhood I've lived in the township for many more years I've lived on Eagle Nest which are much newer homes much bigger homes and yet the values of the two neighborhoods are almost the same and that's because Springbrook being smaller but being treed and being who it is or what it is is a special place to live it's not the mcmansion type of neighborhood it's not the neighborhood where you build to the lot lines you build 10,000 square foot homes you go to Harding Township you go to mendum you go to Basking Ridge Springbrook is a small community it's well-knit it's a community of homes on roughly anywhere from say a little less than a half acre to two or three homes that have over an acre it is Springbrook itself this would be the most outrageous development on the street there is not a house on Springbrook that would match this particular house in its intensity the biggest house on the street is number 50 which is on an acre and a half plus it is spread out this house is on one of the smaller Lots it was built 775 to 100 years ago go it's set up in such a way that it fits into the neighborhood exactly as it is whitewash brick front it is 3,000 square ft it has a two-car garage which almost every house in Spring Brook has the original development called for two car garages in the back which this house has this house has a two-car garage that has been functional for some 50 years it is not appropriate to say it's a nonfunctional garage people have lived there for all these years families and yet one person moves in two or three years ago and says the garage is non-functional I question the Merit of that statement in addition to that he's moving the driveway over three feet by that makes it three feet closer to miss seller's home which is the next door neighbor which is the lower side of the street we have a situation where not only is the driveway 3T over but we have a situation where the plantings that are there now are going to be destroyed and even so those plantings on the seller's property because the root system obviously on what properties are tied together not only is the applicant saying that the garage would be extended 3 ft he now takes the position that he's going to build on top of that extended 34 garage and now he's going to put an onsuite bedroom up there in a bathroom if you listen to the testimony it's almost as if this house is falling apart this is a house that was bought some two or three years ago for some million two it is a functional house as I'm sure the testimony will be forthcoming on behalf of Miss sellers that this house was in pristine condition the master bedroom has an end Suite it has a beautiful backyard as you've seen it's a beautiful house it fits right into the neighborhood it's a typical house it's unfortunate that this gentleman wants to build a house that doesn't belong in this neighborhood the style of the house doesn't fit the neighborhood it fits somewhere else but it doesn't fit in that neighborhood it it it screams out against the rest of the neighborhood most of these houses are 75 years old there's architecture in this neighborhood there's trees in this neighborhood and that's what supposed to be set for and that's why Springbrook is Springbrook now miss seller's lot being next door is directly impacted to say that there's a situation where we can do whatever we want in our backyard but you can't see it from the street so it doesn't count well the sellers lives there and she sees it nents live on the other side they see it they're affected there's two neighbors that are affected that's not right one person's shall we say greed which is maybe too strong a word but intuition to to build their dreamhouse on an inappropriate lot that's a detriment that's a detriment to the neighborhood as I'm sure the testimony will bring out Miss seller's property is much lower than Mr Ying's property so in her backyard her patio looking at this new project she's going to see a three-story building you have the PO pool room the garage and then you have a living accommodation above it so she's going to be sitting in her back yard and she's going to have a a structure that's well past the actual structure of the main house in into the backyard so she's going to be being looked down upon not only from that angle but also from the angle of the garage because now we've moved a bedroom some 20 ft closer to her property so there's an impact on that proper property now the applicants obviously he's a man of Goodwill I've met him he's intent he's serious about doing this but unfortunately he picked the wrong place the wrong time to do this this property is overdeveloped and should this application not be approved now when we get to the Landscaping on both sides the arbores are are not appropriate as far as screening is concerned shearing the neighborhood the excuse me the two neighbors are going to be faced with one looking down with six foot Shear trees and the other one looking up and they're going to and she's going to see that that skyline of a property in her backyard there is no other view like that in Springbrook this is a one-of a kind this is an anomaly and the board should deny the application thank you board members any questions to this witness I I have no questions Mr Mr answer any questions no okay any other members of the public wish to testify lean nent 30 one of you okay okay so miss n would you raise your right hand you somly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you guys I do thank you um I've been dying to do this because everybody's given their credentials from all the witnesses so I have a bachelor's and a master's in engineering from Brown University I teach pre-calculus Algebra 2 geometry I coach the only all female robotics team in New Jersey so those are my credentials that I have a technical background so when I'm doing calculations I swear by when I'm looking at the plans and my calculations we have lived in five homes throughout our marriage we have renovated many homes we we expanded and renovated a home on shellbrook Drive in Harding that was 7,000 square ft it was on four acres not on less than half an acre we renovate we moved to this home in this neor neighborhood for a reason for the neighborhood having a smaller home we have five children some of them are grown they come back five fit in our little 3400 square foot home which we completely renovated when we moved to this town and we respected when we were told certain restrictions and did not expand we respected our neighbors and the character of the neighborhood um our garaged also is small it is in the back we have troubles with turning radiuses we have five children who drive and bring their cars and me we make it work in our small piece of property in our driveway all of the witnesses have talked about the home Mr Ying's home's bad condition when we moved here that home was in pristine condition I was in the home when it was on the market I went to it to go to the open house there was nothing wrong with it we have witnessed in two and a half years the the dilapidation because it's neglect that we've witnessed for the home you can go and drive by and see the shutters are falling off the front of the house we sit on our little deck and we listen to the rattling I even have a videotape of the AC unit that we listen to because my daughter and I sit and do work together on the deck and that's what we have he doesn't repair it so uh our old contractor is the one Wayne noting who did that addition all of the railings everything was customade he was so excited when we moved to this house and said oh your next door to what I did next door Mr Ying only just started to do some landscaping and it's in the front of the yard and then all of a sudden I find a landscaper on our yard I had my Holly is gone and I do make my own pots with and cut my Holly my neighbor on the other side just told me come pick my Holly since I don't have Holly anymore because all the berries and everything's been sheared off so it's the kind of relationship that has already developed um in our backyard the weeds and I take care of my yard I use natural vinegar to kill my weeds the weeds are growing into my yard because there hasn't been mulch back on his yard um and a major concern for us is our property value that if I'm looking down now Maggie has to look up we are looking down to a party scene a patio a huge patio that has the covered roof and the and the fireplace the steps they're not breaking any variances but they're right 13.3 feet from our property line and that's the way everybody is going to go down from the patio to the pool we have a pool we don't have any lighting I I String a couple of little lights out at our pool we don't even have lights in our pool and we are respectful of our neighbors and who's going to want to buy the house that we have worked so hard on if I it's wonderful it's a beautiful architectural design but on less than half an acre in this neighborhood where there's a home down the street that just changed hands on 1.85 acres and it's in the 4,000 square foot range it's we lived in a large home on four acres this home would be beautiful on 4 Acres would meet all of Mr Ying's needs it's out of place in our neighborhood and we respected the town's restrictions and we didn't push the limit we renovated our family squeezes in for holidays thank you board members any questions Mr Brady any question no questions Mr chairman okay any other members of the public wish should testify after 10 we keep we'll go on for a few minutes okay he's very sick by way okay he was staying home he just thought out okay would you raise your right hand please do you solemly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you gu I do your name Anthony nen 38 Spring Brook Road I I've heard from Mr Ying's lawyer his uh architect his planner saying how he's concerned about his neighbors in his design of the house about a year ago Maggie sers came to me and said I had a meeting with uh Mr ying and Dick Wade and Mr Ying told me that you and Leanne are all in on this project never said it how you said it correct well that's just you're testifying not ask questions he said it so how do I so Mr ol asked about L uh landscaping for a year what happens after that so A man that lied to my neighbors I'm gonna have to what get a lawyer to have uh Landscaping done the as lean said we moved here because it's a very quiet neighborhood less property to smush basically what 6,000 store uh square foot home onto how many acres what is it 0 42 less than half right less than half there's no other Home in the neighborhood that uh is this proposed size and less of a half acre Mr Goldberg asked the million doll question a couple of months ago I think to Mr Dorne is this project too big for the property of course it is it as lean said you know our property values I you know to live next door to monstrosity that's uh that's going to hurt us financially um I just don't understand why someone says he wants to be good to his neighbors is doing this pardon oh the hardship that can't park your car as lean said we we work with our driveway and garage I mean you know I don't know and then uh what Mr Dorne said that the three and a half story structure of Maggie sellers property will be used 10% of the time it's a little absurd so all right any B just Mr G wait for a second uh board members any questions Mr Brady any questions no questions thank you thank you any other members of the public wish to testify at this time okay so you've got your you're G to wait Council you're GNA wait uh put your client on and uh your two witnesses the next meeting is that correct yes Mr chairman wa I just see somebody behind are we are we ending or I mean public is going to be done except for Mr ersen because there's no other member of the public public you're asking to testify okay well all right I'll can I make a comment then I mean yes you can that's what that's that's why we're doing this yeah okay I hate to keep people over um but now is my chance to speak my piece or whatever yes you be sworn in again Bill Robinson nin Spring Hill Lane raise your right hand do you solemly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do so again uh nine Spring Hill Lane thank you okay um I've been in this neighborhood for I don't know 30 what 33 years something like that so I guess I qualify as an old-timer but I still remember very clearly the first time I ever saw the neighborhood my wife and I were looking for a house newly married and a realtor called us up and said a house just came on the market in this great neighborhood you've got to come and see it okay so we came and looked and I remember I was amazed that there could be a neighborhood like this so close to the downtown of a reasonably sized city and yet it was so so I mean bucolic okay there were trees there were mature plantings um Hills and I remember thinking uh that it I mean the the houses looked modest but they're not modest in a sense of being humble because many of them are very beautiful homes but modest in the sense of fitting into their Lots fitting into the landscape uh and in contrast with some neighborhoods maybe where a house is like a an advertisement of a you know somebody's status or wealth or position or whatever and it's right out there in your face in Spring Brook they aren't they're more you know they fit into the landscape so I I was I fell in love with the place we bought our house and let to say we've been there ever since over the years I've seen a lot of changes in the neighborhood and change is good I've and as houses have turned over I've gone to open houses and I've probably seen close to half of the houses in the neighborhood you see uh bumped out kitchens you see wraparound decks you see media rooms fantastic because a lot of these houses are older houses they were built in the 20s and 30s and 40s and they don't really meet the needs of people today so a lot of residents have said you know we're going to invest we're going to you know make the house more functional for us and that's wonderful in so doing they increase the value of the home to themselves and they also increase the value of the neighborhood excellent but in recent years I've seen something different and that is uh people moving into the neighborhood and wanting to change the ground rules and I say people moving into the neighborhood because it isn't the the residents who've been in the neighborhood for 10 years 12 years these are people who move in and after a year or so they say okay nice neighborhood here I like it a lot I've attracted to it but I just want to change some rules for my property okay and that's what I mean I there there are some examples I can mention I won't because there might be people I mean people whose houses I would be talking about but there's a perfect example of a house development that was proposed that never happened and that was the one that we've talked about at other meetings at um the end of uh Armstrong Road and the golf course was an oversized lot with a house developer came in and say nice neighborhood you got here I just want to improve it a little bit I'm gonna take this oversized lot I'm going to cut it in half and I want to build two oversized houses on that on those two spaces and that that was a kind of a signal to me um because I could see our neighborhood was under threat and I've seen this in other uh some other proposals too where where we where there there PE there people wanting to change the rules chip away and what the neighborhood is just for my property just a little bit you know just my thing but that isn't the way works and um that is what turned me into an activist and I am not an activist um but I now have a spot in the Pew over here kind of like in my church where I you know I'm at a lot of the meetings and um because I feel passionately about the neighborhood and as as Mr Wade has said and others too I value the fact that it is a little smaller it's a little less uh imposing it's uh uh modest it's not humble but it's you know it's not iny face and I I sense that that is under threat there's always pressure from people wanting to move in and being attracted by what we were all attracted all of our neighbors were attracted but they want to change it just just for my property I just want to just do a little thing but enough of that happens in five years from now Spring Brook ain't going to be Springbrook okay it's going to be something else and people are going to walk around and say what was It was supposed to be so special about Springbrook anyway so so that brings me to the concern about the Mr y's proposal I don't know him personally I'm sure he's a wonderful man and the the the the property uh design I mean he found a very talented architect and a very skilled architect who understands his craft well but what is being proposed really just doesn't fit into the fabric of what I'm describing and it it goes beyond zoning it's the it's the culture I don't know what but it's a sort of thing that you you you can't say Well it broke this rule so you can't do it but in fact in this case it's already uh in a violation of variances and we're looking to expand that um so so that's an issue right there but it just doesn't fit in the neighborhood and that's my concern so thank you board members any questions can I have one more little comment no no no no just a second Mr robon you got to come back one questions Mr Robinson Mr Brady any question no questions okay now you can no now I can go okay uh now anybody else wants to testify I believe M you've had your opportunity Tes I wanted to make one comment uh Julie winter 210 Mount kemell can you spell your last name um w n t r I was hoping this was going to go on next month so my husband would you raise your right hand please do you solemly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so do and your address again please 210 Mount kimoa thank you and I consider myself um part of the Spring Brook Community as well um because of my house is as close to the uh Pond as anyone can get and the fireworks and I've been in the neighborhood for 41 years and it was the springberg community which brought me here and I just wanted to point out that our joint Mars Town Mars Township Library also feels that it's a um pretty unique uh special Community um they have it featured um on a display at at the library and it read spring workor to be built um to be developed shortly as an exclusive Park will be one of the best residential developments anywhere in the state so I guess this was back in the 1930s and as bill was saying if we keep giving inch and inch inch it's no longer going to be the uh um special community that was planned back in the 30s so that's all I have to say and I don't understand why we have to give variances you know just scale it down it is a beautiful house just don't make it so big um board members any questions Mr Brady any questions no questions okay any other members of the public wish to be heard seeing none hearing none close the public portion except for uh what's going to be next meeting right so that's going to finish it up for tonight Mr Santiago what do we have January 27 okay so Mr erson is January 27th do you know your Witnesses are available yes okay thank you so for members of the public this hearing is being adjourned um currently it will continue on January 27th 2025 in this room at 7 pm there'll be no further notices from the applicant we ex yes you need it you have it you want to check with me I'll send you yes please can I just ask a procedural question so there yeah so I can tell you the January calendar has two c variances on it there you know it's obviously the reorg meeting and two C's all of that together probably take about an hour so you should have about two hours at that meeting plus or minus any way we could first we're see variances also right yeah except you're going to take two hours and they're probably going to take 15 minutes each we'll see where we are sometimes things change jary o' S o'clock yep can I just ask a clarifying question Mr sure so for the purpose of the public testimony that we just heard this evening because I heard miss winter say she' wish that they carry over till next month so her husband is you but there will be no more the public portion of the testimony is closed will if there's attendees next session that want to be that opportunity sort of it's possible possible okay thank you yes we do have public members we have the council and yeah and you know Mr uren as I mentioned to you before if your Witnesses have any reports would you produce them in advance yeah so Mr yeah you have I have to check my flash drive I have the email but we okay sounds good thank you okay all right great thank thank all right any other business board members if not a motion to Ober don't move do I have a second second all in favor I all opposed motion um meeting adjer go