##VIDEO ID:pYv_e64Kl-E## okay it's 7 o it's 7 o'clock I'd like to call to order the Tuesday September 3 2024 Mound Planning Commission regular meeting we'd like a roll call please commissioner young present commissioner Aran present commissioner Ros pres commissioner Sr here commissioner Baker here commissioner heel here commissioner Wacker here chair David good here did I get you Mr Heel yeah okay thank you thank you okay we Have No agend Agenda amendments you've received the agenda in your packet that was emailed by Sarah the chair would entertain a motion to approve the agenda as distributed motion to approve as distributed second we have a motion to second we have discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I those oppose nay motion carries we have before you electronically minutes of the August 2024 special SL rescheduled meeting of the commission are there any uh changes to those minutes as distributed hearing none Sher would entertain a motion to approve the minutes as distributed motion to approve minutes as distributed second we have a second we have discussion hearing n all those in favor signify by saying I I those oppose nay motion carries all right moving down to board of adjustment and appeals we have planning case number 2 4-13 and the way we're going to handle this is there will be a presentation by staff we will have discussion uh amongst the commission then we'll have applicant comments if any after that we will open a public hearing I don't use can hear people from the public if there are any following that we'll have further discussion by commission and then we will consider action on staff recommendations on page 20 and page 22 of your agendas any questions on that hearing none Miss Rita all right good evening members of the commission members of the the public Marita trap C's planning consultant um just a reminder to everybody here that the role of the Planning Commission is as an advisory body to the city council um so their role is to hold the public hearing and solicit input from the community oh I'm going to just do this little more good all right um and then to evaluate land use and subdivision requests based on the comprehensive plan zoning and subdivision codes and any requirements by State Statute so we just like to uh when we have complicated procedures like today we just like to have that ground rule of kind of what the role of the Planning Commission is the request before you this evening is for a 12 four 12 unit or four sale condominium Flats um there's three buildings they're each two stories in uh two stories in hype facing Commerce three stories facing the lake there's four units in each building we do intentionally use the word Flats because they are not individual town home units that have upper uh multiple stories each floor will have two units um and then they will be accessed uh by a staircase and internal elevator there is a proposed boardwalk and shared HOA dock arrangement with the adjacent property and I'll talk a little bit more about that as we move through um but that is something that actually is not under the purview of the city in terms of permitting that's something that's under the permitting authority of a number of other agencies DNR minihaha Creek Watershed District Lake minona Conservation District so we just want to note that because that is something that's going to come up uh a few different times this evening the properties are located on the Eastern side of Commerce Boulevard between Auditors Road and Bartlett Boulevard um it is next to lock Lake uh you can see there are two different addresses the applicant is proposing to combine them into a 7.9 Acre Site however most of the site is actually in Wetland um and so not actually uh above the ordinary high water level and so it's actually not buildable I did a zoom in just so you could see the existing conditions there is an accessory garage on the 2400 uh parcel which is the northern parcel and then the 2420 is vacant currently um this was a historic property historic maybe that's not the right word this properly previously did have a home in a garage um right now the garage is the only anything remaining on the site the applicants are requiring requesting a major subdivision and preliminary plat uh we'll talk a little bit more about that but the plat uh just combines them into a single lot and I'll explain a little bit more about what they're looking for in the future and then the conditional use permit is the tool here in the city uh for a shorel plan unit development uh the Shoreland plan unit development is needed for a couple of reasons one it is a Shoreland development and as we um have experienced in other places the density doesn't really match the density that is uh technically allowed from the Shoreland overlay District uh which is very common particularly in our mixed use areas uh the conditional use permit or the plan unit development is also required anytime there's a new development in the mixed use Corridor District so no matter what we would have had been had to have gone through this process the area is guided mixed use and the comprehensive plan we just have one mixed use District just to remind everybody um uh through our Amendment we just created one mixed use District uh the goals of the mixed use districts uh is to support commercial public and residential uses particularly town homes and roow houses um and it's really still meant to provide flexibility because we do have unique properties and this was another example of those it's not very deep um it's kind of an odd shape it has access to the Wetland um as well as to the channel in Lost Lake um and so it just provides a little bit more flexibility um the density goal is between 8 and 15 units an acre uh while the whole development is large the calculated if we calculate it um to just what's above the ordinary high water level we're only looking at a 1.3 Acre Site and they they are proposing uh 12 units which is 9.2 units per acre which Falls within the guided density for this area uh relative to zoning it is mixed use Corridor it is in the Shoreland overlay district and again new development as plan needs a plan unit development uh so just back to the overview I kind of referenced this but it's a little easier to see with these visuals uh they are proposing four units per building um each of the units will either have two or three bedrooms uh there is also a 12x 12 accessory building on the North End of the site and I can point that out when we look at a site plan you can see the front perspective uh from Commerce Boulevard and then what the lake perspective uh it will be and I'm going to walk through different elements as we work through the presentation um particularly I just wanted to note parking uh because this is a nice time to kind of explain it it's a little bit different than normal uh there is going to be private below grade parkings with the drrive vies so this is a side elevation and you can see a side entrance into the parking area uh you will notice on the right hand diagram um that they will have this drive a uh and then they will have individual parking stalls um that can fit um two vehicles in each and then a storage area behind so the dry Bells particularly for that middle building will be something you would drive through so the middle building you would drive underneath and through it to reach the north building um not quite the same in the south building but you'd still need to use keep that drive aisle open um so that folks uh can access uh the other the other parts of the the garage so back to the requests I just want to do a little bit of overview on the preliminary plat uh the plat is going to combine as I said two of the existing Parcels together into a single lot uh the applicant is is going to pursue what's called a common interest Community plat so a cic plat and that was what will create the individual uh dwelling units that can be sold so we do have another example in M um my Marketplace that's a cic plat that is something that can be created um but we are having this plat so we can establish the underlying lot and then the cic plat will happen that is not something that you as the Planning Commission review um but something that the city will be um knowing that will be coming um and then the applicant just needs to have drainage and utility easements along the perimeter of the property just to make sure that there is the needed access relative to the plat that's really all that we're doing um I don't have a lot of other comments most of my comments this evening will be on the conditional use permit again it is required uh to support the development uh that they are seeking as well as as requirement of the mixed juice District so as we kind of walk through the different elements uh when we look at Set uh site plan and the setbacks uh the table kind of summarizes the different requirements of the mixed juice Corridor District technically uh the mix use Corridor talks about having the building um phing facing the right of way line so the front yard set back 15 to 25 ft is required um you can see it really varies from 6.9 to 39.9 uh part of that has to do with the shape of this lot and the dimensions and kind of how they need to provide access to the building so that affected uh what is possible so that requirement uh through the Pud we will be varying it uh the side aard setback is established by the Pud though it's 10- foot side setback is pretty typical for what we have here in Mound um so on the North and side South buildings that's what we're notti noting um we don't really have one for the middle building and then the shoreline setback is supposed to be 50 ft uh they are providing as you can see the minimum uh that there is is 25 ft um as we've noted um there really is not a lot of depth for this lot this is something that um has been under discussion uh with all the different agencies and bodies just how tight it's going to be um and so the request through the plan un development would be to vary um from the 50t to the 25 ft they have stayed out of the shore Impact Zone primarily um and they have stayed out of the 25 ft Dimension uh with the buildings but they aren't really able to do more um and make everything work that they're proposing uh unit size is kind of just the diagrams of the different colors uh just to illustrate the fact that uh on one side on this floor will be one unit so the red the green will be another unit in the blue is the common area so a staircase and an elevator and that's one of the reasons why uh this uh design was chosen that it really makes a lot more flexibility U rather than a traditional town home that has stairs and if you needed elevators you need to have one for every unit and how you access the garage and so this uh Arrangement they felt like would work better um for the market and you can have more conversations with them so this is a product that is going to be unique to Mountain we don't really have exactly this product someplace else um but they were trying to address the challenge of what folks were looking for on one level living um having to have different ways of people accessing the garage uh and so there's all those reasons for this design um but again the applicant can provide more information on the market and why this design was chosen if you are interested we do have architectural design requirements in the mixed juice uh Corridor District looking through those it felt like this product uh did meet those particularly with the different and changing in building materials the variation the only thing that really kind of stood out is potentially something that could be addressed is there W there is a a requirement that has the pedestrian entrance areas to be covered so that you aren't standing there trying to get into the building I think that there's a chance that part of the design is doing that but it's not really Illustrated very easily on these diagrams so that's something I thought we could ask the applicant about because it looks to me like as I looked at the different elevation elevations combined with the building floor plans that it is likely um but something we want to check on cuz that is something that we talked about as being important uh for really enhancing The Pedestrian access uh to sites Building height wise they are meeting the 35 ft requirements uh just a reminder that we calculate uh as the average between the elevation on the Commerce side the lake side we do the AL average elevation and then we go to the midpoint so uh obviously the building will be taller facing last Lake shorter facing Commerce but on an average uh they'll be under the 35 ft um and the dimensions uh um are in there they're pretty close um but that's something that we had talked about and they are working on keeping it under 35 ft uh also the regulatory flood protection elevation is 933 um all of the buildings are well above that so that isn't of concern for this project as most of you know for Shoreland overlay District uh the requirement is that you need to look uh with you when you do a plan unit development you have to look at tiering um and figure out how much the density should be within each tier uh a tier uh is generally 200 ft because of the depth of this project the entire project is within the first tier um the maximum number of units that can be uh that is allowed is five units and that takes the lot area that's above the ordinary high water level divides it by 10,000 square ft because that's our minimum size for an R1 lot um it yields five uh they are proposing 12 hopefully um that seems familiar to many of you that have been here that is a that is a very common issue that we have where the density being proposed doesn't match especially uh in our mixed use districts where we're trying to do more than single family homes um so the 5 to 12 uh the Pud can accommodate for that uh we have to acknowledge the fact that we are above that um but they are trying to do steps that they can uh to address that I did note in the packet the open space um the open space that is required is 50% of the open space um and 70% of the short Impact Zone area the applicant has given us calcul ation that say that they're above that that's the one area that I was realizing as I was getting here um that I felt the most uncomfortable just because I hadn't been able to figure out all those calculations so they are saying they're meeting it it's just it's it's an odd site um and so that may be something that we want to clarify the biggest thing for staff is we want to make sure we have the right numbers and that they don't change uh the Pud can accommodate and we certainly have looked at higher Open Spaces in other projects that we've done so uh it's more a matter of getting the numbers right think uh if we feel like the project is appropriate given the density given that it's downtown the mixed use Corridor um I just didn't have a chance to call today that's what happens when you lose a day um is you realize that the day got lost um so I apologize that I don't have that number for you that is the calculation that they provided and it probably is accurate I just it feels um it feels like a number we should be verifying and understanding better so parking uh driveway access is from Commerce bouard the nice thing is that there is only one driveway access um and that's something that is preferred since it is a County Road um the units will have private two car garages that I already talked about and you'll have to drive through the north of the middle building to get to the North building visitor parking is available on Commerce Boulevard only there are no visitor parking I know that the original initial Concepts had some visitor parking but it's it was tight to figure out how to do that cuz everything needed to be above um the the regulatory flood protection elevation we needed to be out of the shore Impact Zone so it was hard to make the configuration work um so that may be an area for further discussion but as of right now all the visitor parking is on Commerce in the packet it specifically um reminded all of us kind of what the rules are about parking on Commerce um the other thing there is a note on the site plans to talk about snow removal um and it basically says kind of put it on the site and then truck it off but if you look on the site there's not a lot of room for it to be so further discussion May benefit on those those are probably two of the areas that staff is kind of recognizing that are very tight with this project um but it is a project and something we've been looking for so those are kind of the balances when you do a plan unit development Landscaping planwise they proposing 12 deciduous trees as well as native seating and sing ground cover um the landscape architect for our firm reviewed this uh she's done a number of the reviews for us uh for mound um so she had just had some comments and questions we put those uh as conditions one of them particularly has to do with slopes and how we're going to actually maintain certain Landscaping so that's a conversation that we want to have again we want to make sure that this is looking nice and I'm sure they do um but we're looking at it in the longterm in terms of how are we going to maintain this at that high level if it's hard to reach certain parts and certain areas that's something that can be addressed um and worked out with us so we just have that as a comment um to work out with staff to kind of figure out how Landscaping is going to work work for the site um one element that I is kind of hard to see is there is a the grade difference um between Commerce uh and the the units um and so they do have it's probably best on this one um a number of ways kind of ramps and staircases that kind of uh are things that have to be addressed because all of that access needs to be taken care of on their side and they can't be in the right of way for henan County to do that so that's also impacting kind of the landscaping and the flow um and retaining walls uh and that's all impacting how the Landscaping comes together um so that's something that we're aware of and we'll need to work with them on uh Wetlands today I received the notice of decision um that just confirms kind of the the information about the wetlands uh that's something that's separate um and issued by the city as the responsible governmental unit there is one Wetland uh it is the L Lake part of this project or what we call L Lake um and that is off site and it continues so it's bigger than just this site so we do have the Wetland um that we need to be aware of and it is cataloged as a public water Wetland they will need to meet the requirements of the minihaha Creek Watershed District relative to Wetland buffers um so just for perspective on everybody they had to address our 50ft Shoreland um setback as well as our 20ft shore Impact Zone um as well as the Wetland buffers that many haha Creek Watershed districts needed as well well as two different elevations in terms of regulatory flood protection so they had a lot of layers that we were working on um and so they have tried to address all of our different regulatory uh concerns and Mina Creek will be dealing with their separately but it did impact what could happen on the site and how things came together so this diagram um the blue line is the Wetland delineation line um and so this just kind of reinforces all of the different impacts I believe the um is where the the shore uh 50ft setback would be um which is why this really isn't usable if we don't allow some flexibility um towards that number storm water uh they are proposing 45.3% and perious surface coverage uh the district actually allows higher percentage um so that is in keeping with the district the Mina Creek Watershed district is really the one that will review the storm water management plan and the applicant will need to meet their requirements and I'll talk a little bit more about that in one moment so with that I'm going to move on to staff consultant agency utility review uh this was distributed as is our customary practice to all of the agency staff and Consultants uh the DNR is probably the one that we received the most recently so I wanted to address that um they actually have two separate com comment letters as we noted in the packet uh one uh was the request that they actually completed density tearing analysis that I walk through we they hadn't completed that initially and provide the open space preservation numbers that information obviously has been provided uh they second letter we received last Friday uh and that was one um that really focused on uh an a point at which they weren't ready um to positively respond to the dock and Boardwalk that I had talked about initially so just as a reminder um kind of a boardwalk up to a dock that connected to the dock that was already here in place as I referenced earlier on in the presentation mini haa Creek Watershed District Lake minak Conservation District and the DNR are all of the regulatory agencies for the boardwalk and the dock so while we're mentioning it we're going to acknowledge it it's really not something that we're hoping that we'll spend a lot of time reviewing this evening because it isn't under our purview we don't have regulations about it ourselves um we are working we will be having meetings with the DNR and trying to address and understand where they're coming from and where all the agencies are so we want to address it but it isn't something um that we can fully address this evening um I do note that the letters said that they were comfortable if we move forward with the subdivision and land use elements even with that issue so um that was a nice nod to us moving forward in our process the city engineer did review and provide comments um these are more technical comments in nature um they really don't um significantly impact the change or they didn't have a concern um so we just wanted to note um that they had those comments and those would be added as conditions for any approvals moving forward the fire department also reviewed uh they generally were positive about the fire suppression or the sprinkles sprinklers that would be installed they did notice uh note the fact that parking on Commerce is a little bit challenging relative to fire however it's not a violation we could move forward it's just something they noted that would be a little bit more challenging um because of the parking uh situ situation henen County transportation I alluded to this before but just to kind of Go full circle they had reviewed this and make comments uh one of the biggest issues is that the stairs and retaining walls could not be on the public RightWay they needed to be on the individual property um the applicant received those comments and in a matter of a couple of days or a day turned everything around with an updated site plan which is the one y uh reviewing um that has been sent to hennipen County but they're still working on their review and comments on that um they also not noted um that storm water drainage patterns shouldn't be altered with County approval which is a typical response that we would receive um and they had another technical comment about driveway sloping so we expect um to have more comments from henan County transportation um subsequent of this meeting but generally those were their concerns that more had to do with what was on their property um and they didn't preclude moving forward if that's something the city would like they would just like to continue to work with the applicant on revisions and then the final three agencies minihaha Creek Watershed District again has been involved with a lot of meetings along the way as these plans have been developed uh our understanding from the applicant is that they have preliminary support and that this month um mcwd will be looking more specifically um as you are aware um typically mcwd likes to have us do some of our work um before they do their full work um and so that sequencing is kind of typical um but the applicant will need to meet whatever requirements they set forth uh Lake minaka Conservation District they are the ones that are involved with the docs in particular um and they are aware of the application they've been at the table with the conversations um but they need to have specific uh applications received um and they also are concerned that the other agencies do their work before they do their work so they obviously will be part of the conversation um and then mcees doesn't have anything in the area so we don't need to worry about them um public comment wise we did distribute as is our customary P practice no comments were received uh in preparation for the packet or for tonight so uh we are still holding a public hearing this evening so we do ask that the next step after I answer any questions and we have the applicant kind of provide any comments or clarifications since it is a highly technical application there may be things that they can improve upon um from what I said um that you hold the public hearing and then as you are aware there's kind of three different ways this can go if you need additional information we can start certainly uh have some time to do that otherwise uh recommend an approval or denial um staff felt like this generally is following what the city's vision is for this area and it feels like it's in good shape obviously there are conditions recommended and there may be more conditions necessary based on our conversation this evening um uh but our recommendation is that this should move forward as long as we maybe add the conditions that improve the project and make it um the best it can be for the site with that I can answer questions clarifications questions for Rita can you go back to that illustration that showed the um 50 foot the was showing it in red that one yeah I hope I have that right so it's hard to see right now yes are the buildings in front of all that red or are the buildings overlapping all that red can you blow that up a little yeah oh so they're taking up over half of the 50 50% setback yes I am right right because I can't see the writing anymore yes thanks okay that that's the shoreline setback so the stuff that's in white out all of a sudden I got worried that I did this and I had it wrong so thank you so this is your 50ft Shoreline setback but note that this is the front of the site so without without allowing some or any infringement there wouldn't be anything happening on the property so they're asking for what 25t 25 ft yes so the buildings are all right along the 25 ft I mean there there's obviously but I think this is the closest point if I remember correctly thank you mhm the small area of the building that's 6 feet versus the required 15 ft variant yes um I think that's right in here where this property goes at an angle do you see this yeah but is there anything about that 6 fet that compromises the intent of the 15 ft is there any harm in that so the we're the ones that set that up um the 15 to 25 that was generally set up to give a range so that we would see especially town houses to be closer to the street to have that more pedestrian connection feel um the only danger of being closer is if um there wasn't space for a sidewalk which we already have in this property there's already a sidewalk along Commerce um and so that's why we want some type of setback the setback also allows a little bit of space for folks to be outside um but given this site's location my suspicion would be that most of the residents are going to be focused on the lake side versus uh on the Commerce side um so it probably isn't as big of an issue that it might be in other areas where we do want them closer because people might be out the front kind of doing um and having that issue so so those setbacks were front setbacks that we were considering not the rear setbacks with respect to the the Wetland the 15 to 25 foot one is the front I see and we had set that up just to so that the buildings the biggest thing was so that we didn't end up with buildings with parking in front of them so that you ended up with Commerce parking lots and then a building and the buildings get set way back because that really doesn't work with the feel that's along that or that the city's going for could could you I'm not super familiar with the taring unit analysis you you you mentioned could you compare and contrast that with the comp plans unit guidance for the Z for the district I can explain it a little better I did a high level so I put I apologize hopefully I can explain it better let's see do what I have a um I was just going to see if I can zoom in a little bit cuz it might help us and I was also in particular not knowing if I was tracking what is the density with respect to just the buildable portion or the entire lot and how that works with this teering that was okay yes so the comprehensive plan we're going to do that separately that one is looking at the total site but really the only part that's above the ordinary high water level how many units fit on basically the uplint or the buildable that's how we got the nine units per acre got it Shoreland teering suitability is a different uh look and measurement so what it looks at is it divides up an area um um from the ordinary high water level and it says every in this case 200 feet back and then another 200 feet back this is how many units you can have in each one of those we don't have tiers 2 three and four in some projects we have had that okay and so what they're trying to do is push the density back away from the lake shore and put density so you actually get a in those cases if you have multiple tiers you'll actually get a bonus if you won't do anything in the first tier and you push those units back to the second tier or back to the third tier you kind of gain units that you can build I see in any city um they use the foundational size of your single family to talk about how many units you can have in that tier so in our case it's 10,000 ft even though we have R2 with 6,000 we have to use 10,000 because that's our R1 from a a Lakeshore preservation perspective they want the fewest number of units on the lake that they can have which makes sense and so that's why we use that so what we do is we take the land in the first 200 ft how much land is there that's not wet land that's not you know those kinds of things which is essentially all the buildable area in this case okay yes and then um and then we divide that by 10,000 ft and that's how you figure out how many units you are allowed to have in that tier and then that would have given us five that would have given us five and we have the power to raise that to our yes the way that Shoreland rules work is if you have an approved Shoreland um ordinance with the DNR you have the ability to vary from that through a process um through this kind of a process to have a variation now there is always the ability for them to sue you because they think that you're not applying it correctly and you're all not doing it correctly but this method has been the method the city has been using when we're talking about our downtown area because otherwise we aren't able to do what's reasonable density in the downtown area so we've always gone through the exerc and said but this is downtown and it makes sense that we would put more density downtown um and so we'll have more that would be allowed in addition um because we are talking multif family we're not talking just single family homes it's a little bit different um than if you were doing single family lots um because you're building multiple units on the same you're kind of being more efficient with the land then you would have been had you actually built the same number of units so if You' done 12 you would have taken up a lot more land than taking up for this um did that help so it sounds like we are within range for the comp plan for the unit density and it sounds like we are probably above with respect to the Shoreland tiering um but that might be a bit more for sites where you have multiple tiers potentially more applicable yeah for us if we didn't do this variation we wouldn't have any of the projects like artesa Harrison Harrison Bay that makes sense Village the bottom I mean none of them we just because of the way that the density works okay um so when we when we move into things that are not single family then we usually have issues with the Shoreland hearing further questions for Rita I have one question the the snow removal comment it looks like there's really not a lot of call for snow removal here is there something I'm not seeing just the driveway and then the little part in between the building okay so the one in between the building probably there's room the driveway only made me a little bit nervous because there's the boardwalk entr here and this is a staircase that's aside so I'm sure they'll figure it out it's just it whether or not it's enough to stay put it someplace and then C it off when there's too much given the slopes um this just a conversation that's good to have and clarification and you mentioned the fire department looked at it no issues with rescue vehicles get access or anything like that because yes they said that that it would how it is proposed they would be comfortable with um one of the advantages is the fact that there is the fire suppression being proposed so that reduces the concern that you otherwise might have okay thank you speaking of snow is Commerce Boulevard a snow emergency route that is a very good question that I might be able to answer and if so there wouldn't be any parking allowed on on Commerce during certain hours of the night I think that's on that parking which I didn't put in the slides but I will check I can check the snow emergency While others are talking to you because you can I can just drive along the road see if there's a sign so I don't know the if I'm a visitor to this yes facility yep and it's in the middle of winter can't over I'm not going to have a legal place to park if that's the case especially overnight correct yes sir thank you yes okay further questions for Rita thank you ma'am okay I'll take all my stuff with me I turn this volume off having good technal okay as the applicant presid would you like to make some comments sir sure please come forward give us your name and address well good evening everyone I'm Jim ghouly I live at 5496 Lost Lake Lane right here in in fact walked here tonight which is uh what we love to do just a few um we've been working as Rita explain this is very complex and we've tried to work as partners with with every agency and certainly with the city um we've been working on this diligently for nearly a year wow and so we want to make sure that we are addressing everything we can possibly do one thing I'd like to just address is the reason why the the parking is under the building when we originally came up with a plan for this the parking was going to be behind the buildings with a driveway coming down while we quickly learn through all the agencies that's not going to happen you saw some of the slides so we had to come up with a creative way our architect was able to come up with a with a method to allow us to park under the building and still provide that parking so we to understand you know the concern there we've been you know we're squeezed into this very narrow lot and we're doing everything we can to try to address that so I just wanted to sort of answer that um the family that uh were buying this from the uh Russell and Betty fness you may be familiar with that name um been working with us for like I said the past year Russell recently passed away on the 29th of June um Betty recently remind reminded me that it was really his dream if you will his goal to see this developed into what we're doing so uh she wanted me to know that just as a as a point of reference so we feel you know honored I guess to be able to try to carry that that thought forward so um really we all live here this is a great Community we all know that the walkability shopping churches restaurants whatever this is a very intentionally placed development not only just because of the lake and the views but the walkability is is there's really only three communities on the lake where you can do that we're one and um it's really an important aspect to what what we want here for uh the future buyers so anyway having said all that we uh are here to answer questions we have a representative from our civil team team architectural team the co-developer Carl Runk who's got extensive experience in in condominium development um we'll try to answer any questions you have uh we do agree with the staff report and we support the uh approval with the conditions and we'll work uh to make sure that you know we've got three other agencies that we're dealing with too so um you can imagine the the the process here is is is somewhat daunting but we appreciate your input and we we want this to be an asset I mean this is I live here we want this to be an asset in the community and really hopefully um spur further development along Commerce so the 20 240 plan is really something that is adopted and and uh can be carried out because without the flexibility you know there's a lot of limitation to what could be done in the future on on certainly this side of Commerce so I'm open for any questions or we can get um our professional Consultants up here if you need need to okay questions for Jim all right so I guess two questions one is the first one was the snow removal yes how are you guys planning on doing that okay so start there so it would probably need to be removed um they would probably bring in a Bobcat they would I live at Lost Lake we had we deal with this constantly there's not enough room for snow storage really especially in the bigger snows it's a removal process it's part of the HOA they build in that price for snowfalls let's say over 10 in so it would be done by a local group that would be close by uh Beck does our um uh Lost Lake and you know a company like his or or or similar would come in with a likely a bobcat um and and remove the snow into trucks and uh and remove it that way otherwise there is probably you know for a 2-in snowfall there's probably some ability to store at that point but it would be part of the HOA fee so second question is the parking so it's not a snow emergency but the city doesn't let you park there November 15th to April 15th at night so what you is that okay I didn't see that if if that's we were just working with the 400 pm. to 6: p.m and 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and open on the weekends 24 hours the winter all city streets from November 15th till April you can't park from like 2: a.m. to 6:00 a.m. or something like that I think it's all city streets okay and that's that's fine I mean in in this case um we're not heavily relying on visitor parking for this um we we imagine some of these buyers are going to not be living here in the winter um uh that's ALS that's a possibility we are working with um I'll just say some uh other land owners in the vicinity on an acquisition that might help that uh down the road but it's been a long process and too early to tell whether that might be a possibility my suggestion but I'm guessing you already approached we're been like a year as long as I've been working on this I've been working on that I think you guys know where we going I we have that as a condition yeah for all the visit parket you know I think it's just a really great looking project and it's going to fit in beautifully there I do you know and my feeling is you kind of answered a little bit that you're expecting snowbirds to maybe buy but unless you're marketing to people with no friends and no family I do have a real concern with there's zero onsite parking yeah I I see that as a real negative for something of this size this packed in right and you're packing a lot in I also have a these are only my two criticisms other than I think it's a great looking concept the two buildings that are closest to the shoe building that I think you're the shoe considering those feel really crammed into to me too tight I feel like there needs to to be more visual mean the space between the two buildings like that space feels appropriate the other two feel really slammed in together part of that and and and maybe I could have Tim address that but the the curve in the road is somewhat dictating that angle too um so it's it's a little difficult to create that same separation with the the road as it is I don't know if you want to address that here when when you uh I I bring that up only in that I love that we're you're trying to preserve some AR you know architectural perspective that we can still see over the roofs and you're not going to go over 35 ft right and then this part feels really natural to me and then you get down to the other two buildings and I understand your constraints but that to me feels um really shut off to any kind of view to give us some relief from the architect from Commerce yeah you mean of just architectural oh I see well Tim may be able to address that because I I will probably not be the best person to answer that well let me ask you this if you do end up going forward with possibly going with the prop next to this would that change any of God bless you would that change any of how you're going to space these buildings out or would you be adding another building to that I I'm just trying to think forward so we don't end up running into issues that we could have maybe solved yeah it's difficult to answer that because it's a 50ft lot um there's limitations um again I wish I could say that you know we already had this under contract and you know it would it would be moving forward I don't I don't at this point so um I can't say for sure what would happen because we had to we had to make the decision to come in based on what we knew so would it be better yes would we I don't know exactly what we would do there I think um we'd have to really look at it and and try to determine what would be possible there um could you potentially straighten out some of those uh concerns you have I I would think so but we'd have to really put more time into it to analyze that we just you know we just don't have that worked out yet you haven't closed the deal yet got keep working right you all can help me do apprciate is there any thoughts why are we doing four units per building is this just a Financial consideration to make it you know feasible financially feasible I think so I mean I think it just naturally worked out that way to have two you know these Flats work one above the other um it it it to limit it to to three or what it just it it it doesn't really work from a construction standpoint you can build the the shell and then it's it's constructed for the space for the four units I mean if you look at it you know little a little bit what Rita was talking about I mean this is really three houses three large houses even though they're 12 units the the square footage is really almost I mean this may not be a solid argument but almost under the density requirement or or limitations because instead of five this really if they were large homes would be three large homes we're just putting additional units inside that same sort of footprint so um it's just another way to look at it I'm not saying you have to so each building is how many square feet in each individual building just curious specific question the square footage of the building 15,000 for each building well is say each so it's 2,000 square feet average for each unit so we' have 4,000 and maybe 500 in between so that's 4500 so n th000 something like that on the two Flo Al each small yeah 2000 pretty good reader did we have a question about public entrance yes I had I just had a question about whether there was uh coverings over the entrances kind of look like based on May might be yeah yeah you could probably address it there's a recess and then uh okay oh no no go ahead if you want to oh no I did the comment the question makes sense yeah so the sir I'll need your name and address please it's our it's our protocol now I'm Tim Whitten Whitten Associates uh Architects minak specifically the question is your name and your address I 4159 Heathers Place minan yeah the question question is how when you enter the buildings is there an awning or something that you're standing underneath yes there would be a projection over the the the doors in the threshold yeah so you've got a door in the center that gives common access to all the units and then the two uh units on the main floor have a private entrance uh off of the from their unit out to the sidewalk so we actually have three doors per building part of the concept is that uh you know reviewing your 2040 comp plan and some of the images and references that uh you know we're looking for more of a town home look and that's really what we're we're setting up to do um in the uh in the design of the elevation and but they would have a cover over the each of the front doors do each of those front each buildings in that front door area is that where mail would be distributed or is that in a separate location I say again I'm sorry the mail is that in does each building have mail collection oh in there so if uh you can kind of sh I know that was one of the questions that hennipen County asked for clarification on had to do with deliveries and just making sure that deliveries aren't blocking the county road I don't know this is the of that area so right in that area just uh uh right at from the front door in as as you can see the elevator that space right there in front of it is that's for mail okay and parcel packages which is pretty common these days so it's kind of nice too that it's in that area with each building so you'd only have four residents getting deliveries in in each each building yeah so this is you know guest access uh mainly for that front entrance that's where we have handicap accessibility ramps um leading up to those and uh and then you get access to each of the units and they have direct access down to the garage so let [Music] me exterior material board just want to pass along we using um high quality suo and also Hardy uh cement board panels and uh in kind of a soft white and char combination with high level architectural shingles as well so it kind of it fits the the architectural style of you know kind transitional tutor modern tutor kind of a look that uh that that ties that together this question is more for sorry done I'm done Rita is there is there a requirement for some kind of public space barbecue areas a public area there is not for town houses it's for multif Family Apartments but even though I said that it doesn't really show on here I didn't point it out but if we move down here each one has this outdoor space this is outdoor space this is a Terrace sitting area and each one of them has this each unit it's not a it's not a joint Gathering space it's a private each one has this private but our code is specific on that topic just to multifam not to houses multi family tow houses can you clarify when when they're pulling into park um where how do they access parking I can't tell here is it from the lake side or when they when they pull into that shared driveway oh do you want to see on the yes here you go I'm G to rub all that yeah be very nice thank you we see that so comes off here this is the driveway and you come in and you go in an an entrance that's at the lower level underneath on the side on the side and that's if I can go back to if you if this makes sense you I'll go back to a different diagram but before I did that I wanted you to see so you drive through this then you drive through this and then you get into this know off my C dumps right in that right there before it gets and then on this side you come in and you go in this way so I'm going to go back if but I wanted you to see that first so the residents of the north one are driving through the parking lot of the middle one yeah yes and that's why there's actual it shows kind of like a garage door here so that it's a a door that's but you come in you can see better on the side elevation you come in this way and then this is the drrive a where the do is and then these are each of the yeah it seems a little unusual but I get with the the constraints I can see why that probably made the most sense did I understand you to say there's a garage door for each individual stall up there yeah we had talked about it I think that's still there right that's what it looks like yes that way make sense if you're like the north building is driving through your building it adds a layer of protection so is there also a garage door at the entrance to each building I don't that I ass not on the sides okay so if you picture it's just like town home parking individual garages each has a garage door it's just that the private drive that you access to it is covered okay yeah it just has a rof over it otherwise it's open to the weather and uh so no do on here so on the lake level um if you know on the on the lake level you've got the two floors and then underneath that you've got right now four boxes what what are those are those obviously it's part of the parking ramp yeah what are those those are just openings that we have so it just it's open in a sense but it gives a protection from The View off from Los lake so it's really looks like is a finished space instead of just an open you know if we put columns there you'd see the all the garage stors just it's just a way to cover up is it like a false window or something we have actually windows on the two ends so they are you know even though they're Windows to cold space it's just to give that that look Rita just cing back to the question about the shared public space what can can you walk me through what makes this a town home and not a multif family he took my specif he stole my question I agree I don't not following it is it is it unit density is it something else that we that makes us a town home and it's it's the it's kind of not any of the things that we have in our Cod right it seems like that right I mean if it's an apartment we've mostly looked at apartments being um more of the the single hallway okay kind of walkway with more than four units is more like a quad building as opposed to an apartment I mean to some degree that's part of what you're here to do is to confirm yep that makes sense but that's why we didn't apply that um shared space because of the fact that it's not acting like an apartment you know the big like an our Tesla or any of the other ones it's more acting like individual units um in a building and we didn't do sh space requirements with the villages on the island right because I don't think they have any shared spaces which would be corre in my opinion they might they might have it but I don't think we required it might be the most comparable that I can think of I think they I don't think they have like shared space in the they don't have like a sharting they something along that back U Back yeah it's a slope with some rocks I mean I think dogs can over there and then they had like a little area by that handicap unit but it we didn't have that it's nothing that's I think built out to be a communal space Cas but that's the only thing that I can think of that might be similar to this where where we wouldn't we didn't require a community area so it sounds like it falls in a gray area and either seem reasonable okay it falls in a gray area because it looks like a town housee but it is a flat but it is for sale y it's not really rental it doesn't it's not really the big stuff that you all said that you didn't want in the vision yes if we qualify if it was apartment and we said that departments aren't allowed and to be clear it sounds fine to me yeah uh I just was curious what the thinking was Y and you won't be exceeding 35 ft from the roof to the anybody you won't be exceeding 35 ft from the top of the roof to the street level I understand lake level what's that it's not how Building height is measured though Building height is the well I'm a visual person so help me out okay it's the average grade between the street level and the lake level so if the street is here and the lake is here the average grade is here of of where we started that's our starting point on the ground right here Y and then we go to the midpoint of the roof not to the peak of the roof we go to the midpoint oh and that's how we measure everything home building everything that has the lake and has a peak roof so that the so act roof will be higher from the lake side measured from the ground no I'm just talking from Street s side I understand L Street it will be depends less than 30 ft it will be less because it's going to be higher up where it starts it's two stories plus the rof so be less I actually have those I can look it up well you don't have to I just I just want to make sure from the street yes that that's the area that I imagine we're losing a lot of visual open space so I just want to make sure it's it doesn't exceed 35 from the street from Commerce boulevar from the stre Street to the sidewalk the full height will not exceed 35 ft okay thank you noita walk me through the process here if we were to approve this what's the next step is there another time that they would come back to the commission if you recommend to approve then it would go to the city council and you wouldn't see it again unless they made an amendment but generally you wouldn't see it again okay I V thank you question and I'm not sure which applicant to direct it to but could could we discuss the boardwalk for a moment I just wanted to know what the vision for that was uh you can I mean you can ask the question yeah we need your name and address I was just the fact that you said which applicant they're all old te I'm car address is 441 Second Street excels here so I'm Cod developer with Jim Gully on this so our proposed um Boardwalk is like she said is involving other agencies and so our goal is um is really taken upon what's so success of Lost Lake Villas which has been there for 20 years there's a high demand for those homes because they're hway maintain and because there's Lake access and walk blad Downtown Mountain so our vision was to have a boardwalk that extends out to the neighboring open water that exists today with the neighboring property owned by Mark kakowski we have an arrangement with uh to expand and enhance his dock area to add additional Bool slips per lmcd rules because this a 900 ft of Shoreline of this site that we have in our contract with the fless family so that that allows you know every 50 feet a new bolt SLP per lmcd rules so we're looking at a new design that we take forward to the lmcd to their board within the next 30 45 days for that so that that's the design intent for the boardwalk and we speak about amenities that that is really an amenity if it's approved that binds the the owners in this HOA we think together is that while there's not a common Club room in the four three buildings we think the lifestyle of of having access to that boardwalk and going out to your boat slip in the nice months of the year is is an amenity that'll bind people together as far as this community really again taken upon what works so well at L Lake Villas today this is where they're going to be and that's connected with the other residences there but not to the the the I guess the City Boardwalk or the the city Gathering space right it's dead ended there it's at with our current design intent if you have that site plan R it it it dead ends at the Open Water that's there today I know that the city has a larger Vision it sounds like it's someday to have the public Boardwalk connect all the way to Surf Side Restaurant yeah um but at this point we don't have rights to that we have rights to the fness site and then connecting with with the ne bring property is this the one you miss yes yes so the the proposed Boardwalk design extends out to um where there's open water today so we're not applying for a dredging application with the DNR so we've like Jim said we've spent a year in meetings with other agencies in this and this is the best design idea we can come up with as far as you know taking advantage of Open Water that's there already and working together with the neighboring property owner on that to enhance what what's there at his site and provide an amenity for the residents of this project it go okay thank you if well as I was reading through the notes and I I understand we don't know if the DNR is going to approve this or not but how does that impact your potential sales if that isn't one of the perks that you can offer it it definitely has an impact uh a Major Impact to this project so we made that clear uh to everyone of the city we've talked to uh we know it's not the jurisdiction of the City that we're working closely with lmcd and the DNR and the waters District on this and when do you expect to have final information in the next 30 to 45 days uh we're finishing our our proposed doc design right now with the company and we have an application for multiple dock license with the lmcd that we're advancing as our next step and you know I'm just being the devil's advocate here but if they say you know we're willing to do this but you can only have 10 docks or or whatever that's not going to derail this project well no we're yeah we're we're we're to take it one step at a time with them and the expectation is that there's a the lmcd has already told us as a staff that the rule stands here we're buying 900 ft of Shoreline one dock per 50 ft is the rule so that's the allowance we have only so much open water with neing property to design these slips so there's a capacity limit that we're designing so we have a design that's going to be advancing as an applicant very soon near the lmcd which will keep the city you know up to date on that process but our early conversations we've had a number with lmcd they're very supportive of our proposed design and sent on this great and the DNR does not have our understand does not have jurisdiction because we're not asking to dredge any of the existing cat Hills we're just looking at leaving it all as is on the fall on this property and installing a you know Boardwalk over to the existing Open Water thanks okay do we have other questions for any of these gentlemen okay hearing none I'd now like to open the public hearing to consider planning case 24-13 is there anyone in the audience that would like to address the Planning Commission regarding this proposal let the record show that no one came forward therefore I'd like to close the public hearing and now go to further discussion and review amongst the commit thoughts about this proposal ladies and gentlemen snow removal obviously is an issue parking is an issue I would think that we would want to add U resolution of visitor parking to the conditions I can I check in on that so the the lost like properties on the the the other side do they they have external parking do they not or on the other side of like the east side yeah they have external parking they do okay all right okay I think they have little driveways too that's what I was just going to say tiny driveway because they have driveways that gives you the perception that you know a visitor could park in your driveway which we don't have here that's why it's a little bit concerning I I think it looks great I'm not as concerned with the there's the one picture of the elevation view from the street M of all three buildings I don't think it looks too jammed between those top North two buildings I guess my concern is pretty much solely parking and if they can resolve the uh the issue with the property to the north my recommendation would be to use that all for visitor parking and then I wouldn't have any concerns with it I think I think they've used it looks great I like the way they they are hiding the garages from Lost Lake that looks nice the boardwalk idea is great um you know eventually we can as a city continue that Boardwalk down to like they said to Surf Side my only concern is parking yeah I'm a little concerned about parking but honestly I it's not a huge concern for me I think I I know this is going to sound maybe not the most appealing but there is a parking ramp not too too far so if it's during the day your guests can go to the parking ramp I live on the island when I have events sometimes people have to walk two or three blocks to get to my house and they do it because they want to come over so I I I just I mean this idea that we get away from walkability over design I you know I'm not as concerned about the parking I just I feel like there's public parking in the ramp now I don't know if you can park in that ramp overnight but during the day you certainly could if you had to I think you can people do MH people do whether you can or can people do but I mean I on the a walkability area that we're on the other hand if I'm 85 years old and it's uh 15 degrees below zero do I want to walk from that ramp down to this complex that would be my thought but I don't think we can predict who's going to be living in there either I know there's a Target that they're shooting for but we we can't guarantee that that's going to who who ends up buying CU this is a multif family wasn't there a requirement that a certain amount of parking spots per unit in the other one we looked at it's a townhouse not a multi family yeah so but where are we on that Rita yeah I thought there was a minimum mhm I'm getting it on the finch Ling one yeah the finch Lan we had to have bench Lane it's pretty much the same thing as this is it mhm Finch lanin we had to have two unit two parking spots per number of people or something I remember correctly I can't remember maybe I'm beating a dead horse here but was that the commercial consisten I consist know she's looking it up now I oh right right okay that one um I mean the B wall looks nice I like that I mean the aesthetically it was pleasing I think one thing that will likely happen is if people need to park they'll go to O and so I was going to ask Rita when she's done searching but I think o was on the notification window that that she showed on the map was so the other thing I'll say I don't know if it's directly proportional to the parking but I am super happy with the number of units we're getting on this space is more than I would have expected and just from a growing the housing stock in our community you know having more families on the lake I mean this is to me I'm very happy with the amount of families we'll be able to get into this plat um and you just can have three drivers and all all I'm saying is that I've I've lived in apartments with no dedicated parking and if you want it you make it work much l yeah it's more of a marketing issue then I don't know that um you know I visit people downtown and you figure it out yeah and I do have a question when you're looking at up too cuz when we did that my computer Jam so just a when we did did the building on langden there there's property that the city owns in that parking lot so there's actually 20 20 stalls of public parking in that behind the T chiropractor the closet store back where they this is all City parking back here technically where they'll go this is private but this is City yeah and there's going to be parking over here by Auditors the run I mean yeah increased property values is always nice and so are we deciding on the we're waiting I think we're waiting for Rita computer tell us whether there's a whether there's a public parking requirement um anything else to ask hway dock no I think it with this one the parking is probably the the biggest challenge well I'm not sure we solve that issue maybe it's it's between City and the developer yeah we I think we should put it in that would be my suggestion I I will mention that when they when the these people made the proposal at the city council you know for the just letting us know that they were coming here there were two spots dedicated to people parking or emergency vehicles or what have you and it's gone it it was right here in that furthest building it was right here what happened to it I don't know I was concerned Le about it then but now now it's gone completely well we have some gentlemen in the C people to address that do you want to talk about why you got rid of those two spots please thank you and we'll need your name and address sir my name is Matt pavic address is 224 Oakwood Road Hopkins um I am with civil site group civil engineer on the project um so we worked on the site layouts uh we had the original sketch plan with two guest spaces um as we continued to refine the design we were really concerned about the steepness of that driveway uh particularly with people coming coming in and making that turn at the bottom so we wanted to to kind of flatten that out flatten that out as much as possible um and the just the dimensions with um where we had some Switchback ramping to get into the front we weren't able to fit parking spaces there so what we did do is we relocated a temporary we call it a loading zone um that's down below uh so a single delivery truck or a guest could park there for a limited time um which we thought functioned well uh uh to kind of serve the purpose of a lot of that temporary or guest parking uh concern um we also had the the street parking and then uh I think a really good point the parking ramp up the street uh just now just Google it's a six minute walk from there to this site so the temporary uh loading area that you mentioned is that on the north side of the self building yes is that what I'm seeing strap there on the flat okay yes twoes it's right in here yeah okay Rita did you find out anything for us parking well we I applied the townhouse of R house which is two spaces for dwelling unit that's what I thought which is why they have they have that they have that they have the two in their garages it's not about I mean that's generally yes we do like to have visitor parking we generally recommend it even if they do provide two spaces for dwelling unit we we will still comment on that but technically it's meeting the code okay further questions or discussion regarding the proposal all I'll say is I I I heard some maybe discussion around hoping that they might be able to do something with an adjacent property my preference would be that we respond to what they propos and not what they could have so if we want to enforce that parking condition it should work with what they have now and not what they could get well my thought would be that this really is an issue that needs to be worked out between the developer and and the city and uh at the very least if you could just add those two spots back in even though I was I didn't think it was enough then you know two weeks ago but now I I'd be comfortable seeing those back in your Point's well taken there thank you okay further discussion or questions can can those even happen with the way the driveway has to go into the Elation saw I think that was part of our problem correct it was there was a gr I they need to hear that cuz that y there's a grade challenge with the slope so the parking stalls would be very sloped to the side if they were 90° off that parking or off that entrance Entrance Drive and they we have a requirement that they have to be at a certain elevation yes right and so getting them at the right elevation all the way like the drive correct is a problem correct that's just not physically possible to keep them so sure yeah um would there be an opportunity for shared parking with some of your neighbors we would definitely address that with um neighboring properties not probably residential but potentially the church the Masonic Lodge whatever I mean there are options that we can address between now and Council um we didn't realize was going to be uh um as big of an issue so we would have sort of addressed that in advance if we had expected that so I think it's it's something we would look at for sure it was kind of an issue even at the the city council meeting though yeah no it was and I and I guess um we we were thinking and didn't realize that the winter parking restrictions were in place so we were going with you know what the code was and what we thought was ample street parking for most of the day and all all 24 hours on the weekend I we did not know about the restrictions during the winter so you're right it is something that we will definitely look at thank you thank you okay further questions or comments hearing none we have uh two proposals from staff both are that uh the commission uh recommend to the council um approval of planning case 24-13 the first recommendation regards the conditional use permit there are 12 conditions and six findings of fact uh the second recommendation um addresses the uh preliminary plat and that is with 10 conditions and three fin of fact so I'm going to make a motion really quick on the I don't if we do need to do it separately but think we do them separately the preliminary plot seems pretty straightforward so I'll make a motion to approve planning case 2413 the preliminary major subdivision preliminary plat with conditions 1- 10 on page 22 and findings of fact 1 through 3 second okay we have a motion and second discussion what concurrent approval conditional use permit talk the first one second this we're just going through the plat it's he went to the second one cuz that's straightforward concurrent approval P so it has to be approved okay it has to be approved at the same time okay okay you hear a motion and a second further discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I those oppose nay motion carries okay let's go back up to the con conditional use permit Jason do you have comments on this so with the conditional use permit I don't know how what you can put in a condition for making sure the city and the developer work out the parking Arrangement um I think you just said it you know I I I share everybody's concern with parking I don't know that I see it as a basis for me to make a decision on this if if they don't have ample guest parking um that's an issue for them and their tenants and desirability of the the buildings that their units they're putting up I don't see it as a public safety issueing that would lead me to vote no when I otherwise think it's fine except for the parking I agree with you and that's why I'm saying having a condition in there to make sure that the city and the developer work that out I'm not sure what type of like that even covers they could just say that we're not going to put it because we don't think they need visitor parking I think we're saying the same thing Mr Baker Mr good I mean you can you can handle it however you want but you can make a motion and then do a direction to staff and the applicant after you make the motion or before that like motion you know direct staff and the applicant to work in advance of the council meeting to work on improving the the parking availability and we can talk about what they did and what we you know what was possible for the council if you don't want to make it a condition that something has to be figured out cuz we don't really know what those OP we could have a condition that there should be further discussion between the developer and the city regarding parking leave it at that yes okay thank you I'm comfortable with that and I will make a motion to approve the conditional use permit for uh 2413 with the 12 conditions document page 21 plus an additional 13 that the developer and City work on finding additional opportunities if possible for parking and then also the six findings of fact that's that second we have a second and a motion could we clarify visitor parking I'm sorry yeah visitor parking thank okay we have a second and pardon me Motion in a second further discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I those oppose nay nay okay um motion carries uh could you yeah reason me I'm not comfortable with not not having a concrete answer on the parking head I think this that that that's going to leave an open an ambiguity that I'm not comfortable with okay happens going to the council saying oh we worked on it doesn't resolve anything oh we talked about it that doesn't mean much what are you going to do what the concrete steps you're going to take to resolve it cuz I don't want to have cars parked on the street and tickets during snow so I think that's part of our job is to figure that out or give recommendations I agree so okay thank you yeah um thank well put okay um thank you yeah moving on thank you everyone thanks for joining us thank you for coming uh a reminder from our meeting two weeks ago uh we have a couple of you that are up for uh term expirations and so you're requested to reach out to me uh yeah yeah um if you have interest in seeking reappointment um by the uh members of the council and you can do that by email who who is up yeah do you know who's up I know it's in our minutes okay I'll check it out you're Mr good are you right I can go grab the packet I didn't grab that note there just give her a sec give me a sec um Mr Good Mr Heel and Nick Rosner your terms expire uh at the end of the year so if you have interest in seeking reappointment just if you could send me an email sooner than later would be great because we'll have to post uh and and seek applicants um as well as get interviews scheduled at an upcoming meeting typically that is at our November meeting okay further questions about that all right um Kath anything from the council no I mean it's hard to imagine I don't have anything to say but I think the next meeting there will be a lot because we have a lot in the cooker with uh budgets and some other things but I I will just mention that speaking of o o the incredible Festival is next weekend so that's always a fun event and that's it thank you thank you Sarah um I don't have anything new just uh busy as always um do we know when I'm going to get a table over at that new restaurant never I don't have exactly I don't have any new information from what I shared two weeks ago is that they're working under the existing permits um they're still doing some switching over some space uh so that they can get their final um met Council sack determination uh evaluation for the new restaurant and the patio area so that they can um get the last permits issued so that's what I know that's and that's about 3 weeks old thank you you're welcome okay we have a question are we going to go into so our next meeting is October are we going to revisit or give any thought to changing of this start time for this meeting good idea good we could put that on the agenda I know we wanted to wait a while to see how it was going with Council yep we can sure do that I just didn't know if we were far enough out to consider again because the council started in in May in May and it's gone just great we haven't had any complaints most of our meetings have been actually pretty crowded so it might be an advantage for people just buzzing home from work or whatever to show up and once you get home and kick your feed up sometimes they don't want to come back out same here yeah okay why don't we put that on the agenda and then everybody citate about that between now and then our next meeting is October 1 and we'll look forward to seeing everyone does anyone have anything else they'd like to bring up hearing none sure I would I entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second motion second discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I oppose nay motion carries thank you for coming thanks everyone