##VIDEO ID:https://videoplayer.telvue.com/player/994DtmGEsi0VDYK3jJI2BJ72GfgNIpU2/media/922654?autostart=false&showtabssearch=true&fullscreen=false## <v Speaker 1>Buddy, this is the Native Conservation Commission</v> of December 19th, last meeting of 2024. Mr. Shepherd, our associate member is on the, on the phone. Hello, Mr. Shepherd. Hope you're well. <v Speaker 2>Hey, good evening everyone.</v> <v Speaker 1>Hello, Doug. So we've got a fairly short,</v> tight agenda for this evening. There's actually no public hearings, and so we can approve some minutes and then have a general business discussion about a couple of things that are on the, on the docket and just kind of get through that and see where that takes us. So first item on the agenda is minutes from October 3rd and October 16th. Look good. So we've got a, can I take that as a motion to approve the minutes? Yes, Jeff. Alright, so motion was made by Jeff to approve the minutes with, is that seconded? Seconded. Thank you Jim. Is there any further discussion? Any additional edits that anyone wants to make to those or are we good to go with them as is? Let's take 'em as is and let's take a vote. All those in favor in the room here for approving those minutes. There's no one else here, so no one's opposed. So the minutes from October 3rd and October 16th are approved. Next item on the agenda is a general bus. We're just moving into our general business discussion. First one is officer elections. Claire, do we need to do all of the officer elections or just the vacancy that we have with vice <v Speaker 3>Chair?</v> Just the vacancy that we have currently. Unless there is anybody who would like to self nominate for one of the other positions that is currently filled. <v Speaker 1>We need many tributes.</v> <v Speaker 4>He's being very patriotic. He's wearing a flag. That's</v> <v Speaker 1>Right.</v> That's right. I'm ready. All right. Hearing none, we do, we do have an open slot for the vice chair of the commission. You know, I would propose that someone nominates Mr. Richards as vice chair and if anyone wants to make that motion poses, if anyone would like to make that motion, we can move forward with that. I'll make that motion. Thank you. Jim. Is that seconded? I would second that. Thank you Mike. I think we should spend the next 10 minutes dissecting his character. Where's Nick Ardi? You're right. <v Speaker 3>I'll see if I can pull up his eighth</v> resume from the ComCom file. He's <v Speaker 1>Not here.</v> He will be here to vote against you and go through it. <v Speaker 2>10, 10 minutes isn't long enough.</v> <v Speaker 1>That's right. Says says the prior vice chair who had his</v> character assassinated on a regular basis, I literally <v Speaker 5>Have picture to fill a wonderful choice.</v> <v Speaker 1>That's right. So it is a great choice.</v> Alright, if there's no further discussion that Alden all is in favor of making Jeff Richards our vice chair and there is no one opposed. So thanks Jeff. Really appreciate that. Well, thank you. Alright, next item in the agenda, treat protection bylaw draft. So we're continuing to hammer away at this. Claire, would you give us an update on the MAPC grant applications? Yes, <v Speaker 3>Of course.</v> So as we discussed at our last meeting, we did apply for a technical assistance program funding through MAPC. I did upload to the Google Drive folder, the completed application that was submitted. So the questions that we went through at our prior meeting, as well as the letter of support from Matt Gardner. The letter, the required letter from Jamie Erickson is town administrator as well as the letter from Eco Natick that was received in relation to the bylaw. The other document that was uploaded was that image that was in the PDF that we reviewed of the eye tree data regarding canopy cover in the census tracks of Natick. George, you missed everything. You might as well go home. <v Speaker 6>I got that call from Washington. Oh</v> <v Speaker 1>Boy.</v> It's, we're, we've already gone through all the public hearings, which is zero. All of them. We approved the minutes we made, we voted to for Jeff to be the vice chair of the commission. <v Speaker 4>I've nominated you, but no one bit</v> <v Speaker 6>Because I got a call from president</v> or incoming president Russ <v Speaker 1>Rus.</v> Alright, so now and then, so with all this, sorry, lemme just go back to, so we did the officer elections approve the minutes and now Georgia's getting into the current status of the tree protection bylaw. We have a grant into MAPC, A technical assistance grant, where they can help us draft language. The question that I've got for you guys is, you know, last time we went through in some detail, the, the outline, kind of the bullet point outline that we're gonna ask MAPC to craft the bylaw based upon, is there any any additional thoughts of, as people have kind of put this under their pillows and thought about it before we go and have MAPC take a legalese whack at this? Is there any, you know, is, are, are people comfortable with where we are around the tree committee around trees above a certain diameter, A DBH exemptions for dead, diseased invasive trees? You know, if, if, but basically people would need to get, you know, if they're applying for a permit and the tree is not exempt, it would need to be exempted by an arborist tree Warden Conservation Commission. And then if they wanna remove it and it's not exempt, they would need to get a permit to do it. <v Speaker 3>I did take the discussion from the last meeting</v> and update that outline a little bit, mostly just accepted a lot of the things that we had talked about, removed a couple of things that we had talked about that I had made recommendations that were not working. And then I tried to take some of the points that we discussed actively at the meeting last year and make some additional changes. The only other big change that I used, and this was just the bylaw writing in me, that I changed all the wills and musts to shalls <v Speaker 1>Shalls.</v> That's the legalese part of it. <v Speaker 3>But Mike did just forward a number</v> of additional resources surrounding canopy sizing and replacement methodologies that I'm hoping to digest and do some additional edits onto this bylaw on based on that information. <v Speaker 1>You know, the, the premise of this,</v> as we talked about last time is, is basically to, as it's currently structured, is to use canopy cover as the metric, as the, the, the attribute that we want to preserve. And so it's designed to, to understand what that cover is. And, you know, one of the first things we would need to do would be to get that baseline measurement done, and ideally we could have some longitudinal data to show over time how it's changed. I think anecdotally, and I'm quite sure quantitatively we'll show that it's decreased over the past decades, <v Speaker 7>Is that before having the bylaw though?</v> Or that that'll be, you know, a part of the committee's work, if you will. <v Speaker 1>I, you know, I, I, it's a good question.</v> I think that if we could get the data, I mean, I'm, I'm convinced, but this is just me observationally that the tree canopy has decreased, right. You know, in over the past decades. And so I think as part of quote, selling this law, you know, part of the, the reason to, you know, to demonstrate its importance is to show that we're steadily losing tree cover. And, you know, I think it, it, it would be a, a good supporting piece of evidence for this. <v Speaker 7>I was just wondering about timing, you know, sure.</v> <v Speaker 3>I, we did include, I did include some requests</v> to MAPC if they can assist with that as part of the technical assistance program. So we may be able to get that information as part of the bylaw development. I think at the very least, there are certainly enough aerial imagery tools available that I could probably put together some, some rough approximations from, you know, the ortho photos that we have available to us. And IRE has a really good data set as well. My hope is that MAPC might have some secret sets of data that they have access to, which frequently they, not necessarily secret, but they often have access to data that local <v Speaker 1>Paid databases</v> <v Speaker 3>And Exactly high quality</v> <v Speaker 1>Satellite stuff like that.</v> <v Speaker 3>So definitely hoping to leverage MAP</v> PC's resources for that as well. <v Speaker 7>Because I, I'll just give you like what,</v> where my head is at on this is good. You know, we went through the original reviews and I, I was just getting used to the what, what the DBH methodology. I, I, I'll refer it to that. That's not the right term, but, you know, just measuring and then, you know, by heritage sizes and those type of things. And I know Mike put in some updates there. I think it was September or October, and that really confused me, you know, and I was, but I will tell you the more I've looked and looked at it, now, I really have swung over to the Canopy way and, and again, I, in fact, I just reread it earlier today and those edits were really good. I, and I said, you know, as to push the bylaw, or I shouldn't use that word push, but present it through. I think you could have something like that that was more about using calculations versus, you know, we definitely would like to go to the aerial methodology Yeah. But if we could like, get the bylaw moving and, and at the same time, I really liked the tree committee thing. I thought that was, that was a, a change. Yep. And my one question tonight was can how do we facilitate it and, and could we get it going now? It, because what I liked about the last discussion was the bylaw is kind of, you know, it's a piece Yep. Of this bigger thing. Absolutely. And wouldn't it be great to get that bigger thing, which I think there, there's already, I think, you know, some folks are already very active in it, but there isn't a tree committee that I know of specifically. <v Speaker 3>No. So there, there's really two methods for the formation</v> of a border, a committee in town. The first is, is through legislation or requirement of a bylaw. So the Conservation commission exists because mass general law requires us to exist. The other way that boards and committees are created are through sort of public interests slash the vote of the select board. I am hopefully gonna be sitting down with Art Goode next week just to sort of go through a lot of this stuff that we've been working on and, and get his initial thoughts on this, the tree committee and whether or not he has interest in assisting us in these efforts going forward. Which I do think that he, he'll, he'll like to be involved. My imagining is that the tree committee would be created in part by the tree preservation bylaw. So the, the formation of the committee would be a, a charge of the bylaw, essentially. We could try to get a committee put together. Now, prior to a bylaw adoption, I would expect some, there's generally an attitude of we may maybe have too many boards and committees already. Now <v Speaker 1>Why do a committee, if you know,</v> or what's the job of the committee? We'd have to, <v Speaker 7>Okay.</v> <v Speaker 3>So I see the bylaw as a way of sort</v> of laying out the process and, and need for the committee versus trying to prove a committee's value without having any bylaw to enforce, essentially. Yeah. <v Speaker 7>I, I just was worried like, oh, yeah.</v> You know, thinking that if, if the, the bylaw stumbles for example, for, you know, whatever reason, and, and I know and complexity is, is one of 'em. And I've been reading about some other places and they said, geez, when we put a a, you know, they tried a canopy one, it was in way too complex and it got rejected. Yeah. You know, whereas others have, you know, they really spent the time to make it very simple. So, you know, the, the users, the the folks out there like, oh, this is what I have to do. I, I understand. And, and then they can understand canopy pretty easily. Yeah. But I thought, geez, that that's probably gonna take some time. And when that tree committee, they could really maybe help focus on that. I don't know if this group, the consulting group, that they'll just take the ball and run with all of that, or, because I know they'll have to be like a resource guide or something that goes with the bylaw. Right. Yeah. <v Speaker 3>So the bylaw is again, sort of that first piece.</v> It's almost similar to, I don't know if you followed the CPA process as that was sort of a adopted, so the, the bylaw CPA was adopted and then a bylaw establishing the committee was passed by town meeting, and now that committee is working to form regulations that guide the committee in how it operates. Gotcha. Okay. And I, I picture, you know, this tree bylaw will be like our wetlands protection bylaw. It forms this sort of overarching umbrella. And then we get into the regulations that'll deal with things like application process, required documents, things like that. And those regulations will be sort of that resource guide Okay. As well as there'll be additional, probably resources provided. But the, the hope is that the bylaw would serve as the impotence for the creation of the tree committee. Okay. Understood. <v Speaker 4>And</v> <v Speaker 3>I, I think, oh,</v> <v Speaker 4>Sorry, along the lines of the, the committee, right.</v> The, You know, not knowing like what the volume of permits that would have to do to do their ability to make a decision on a permit. Right. And you know, about complexity or reluctance to approve something because they're not, you know, sure about that. And, and I was always concerned about opening up to a permit process where a neighbor, 'cause we get a lot of, so we get a lot of letters in, and I read those letters and there were a number of layers of, well, my neighbor's tree. And, you know, that becomes Yes. You know, pretty <v Speaker 3>Contentious.</v> <v Speaker 4>Yes. Yeah. And, and, and, and to open</v> and to open, you know, when you buy a property that's near wetland, you know, buyer beware. You have to understand that you're subjected to that. And then there are people have a right to public hearing opening up every yard to natick to a public hearing on some things. I would be, I would, I'd be concerned about that because then, because then it would be, how does a, you know, I come to, you know, is it I submit it, it gets, they meet, they review the permits and make a decision. Or would they have to entertain public opinion and the neighbor's view of why they want. 'cause I think that then you would be, could get atrophy in, in trying to move forward on these things. So that would be, that's a concern I have when we get to the process of mid, of, of, of <v Speaker 1>These.</v> But Jeff, wouldn't it be, I mean, if I'm hearing you right, so you're concerned that, you know, there could be kind of this reporting, dropping a dime on your neighbors for cutting down a tree kind of thing. <v Speaker 4>Or just the ne coming to remove a tree</v> and then having to sit there and have my neighbor be able to say that they want me to remain, keep their tree on a property that I pay taxes on and, and have to improve. That would, that should be, you know, between me and the town as a, not me and my neighbor in the town. I, but because that could bring in three or four or five different people If you had, if it was people who boughted your home or, you know, some properties go like pretty deep in with some wooded areas and create, you know, so I'd be, I'd be concerned about that. <v Speaker 1>But, but the way that we're formulating this is</v> that if you're a property owner and you have a tree on your property, you can remove it. But you have, there may be a process that you have to go through. Sure. And there may be permit fees that would be used for replanting as a result of that though. So does that, does that, <v Speaker 4>No, but it's the, it's the entertaining of opinions</v> by people who should not provide opinions. Jeff, <v Speaker 3>I'm wondering if there was a similar breakdown,</v> and I don't know where, where the lines would necessarily be drawn, but are stormwater bylaw establishes, you know, an administrative path for projects that are deemed less significant versus other projects are required to come before this body for approval? Would something similar to that help maybe relieve some of those concerns? <v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm just trying to think of, you know,</v> we have a very narrow charge that we have. Even when opened up to the storm water. We had land disturbance permits. We already, that, that this takes, you know, I don't know how many properties is 38,000 people owned the town, how many properties that could be impacted by this? That could be an enormous amount of work, depending, I don't even know, like if we has any, <v Speaker 1>Any property with a subject tree. Yeah.</v> <v Speaker 4>Which you rely, which which are almost every,</v> every every property does <v Speaker 1>Almost every residential property.</v> <v Speaker 4>Yeah. And I don't know how much work the tree the tree</v> folks do in town, if they'd be willing to anonymously provide us like a, to say, you know, we have, you know, we, we do a thousand properties a year, you know, like, and can give us an narrative, well, how much tree work is going on in the town to estimate how much volume would go through this committee and whether they could even handle that volume <v Speaker 3>Well, well, I think that that would be the purpose</v> of creating a separate committee versus this body serving as a <v Speaker 4>Treatment.</v> Oh. Oh yeah. I don't think, I don't think we could add that on that to the thoughts. <v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think it's kind of an interesting question.</v> You know, it, it's definitely an interesting question because the way, and in my mind at least, I was not imagining a committee that would have the purview to debate whether or not you're gonna remove a tree and give you a thumbs up or a thumbs down on it. And which to me actually may even call into question the need for a committee. I was, I, you know, I was thinking at least in my mind, that, that this was gonna be, that's basically an administrative process where, you know, if I want to cut down a 36 inch oak, I can, I can do it, but I gotta pay for remediation as part of this. Yeah. And so, and, and there would not be an opportunity for a group of neighbors to get together and petition the tree committee and come in and, you know, and, and tell me that I couldn't do it because of the val, you know, and, and talk about all the value of it. I could do it, but a 36 inch oak is gonna, is gonna be, you know, a fairly substantial permit fee. So, you know, so that based on some formula, that was my kind of operating model, but not, not one where the, where the committee was like, yes, you can do it. No, you can't do it. And, and maybe <v Speaker 4>I was, I</v> <v Speaker 3>Think in theory there's always gonna be some</v> situation where there, there has to be a denial, <v Speaker 4>But in an</v> <v Speaker 3>Just of every situation process</v> <v Speaker 4>Would be the appeal board though.</v> Because I was looking at, I said, well, if there was a, if, you know, when I was looking at that, the outline that would provide to MAPZ, if there was a committee that would sit and say yes and approve it, like in a hearing type setting, and there was a denial, then what's the appeal? <v Speaker 1>This is a really interesting appeal,</v> fundamental question. The appeal <v Speaker 3>Is, it would be similar actually</v> to the appeal process under our local wetlands bylaw, which would be, it would be an appeal to the civil judicial courts of the state. <v Speaker 1>What would the circumstances be</v> where the tree committee would say no? <v Speaker 7>Well, I guess I was thinking say it's a property</v> with a very beautiful tree. True. I know. Sort of. And, and if I was on the committee, yeah, I, I'd say, geez, you know, we'd really like to look at every alternative before you take that tree down. That doesn't seem like, you know, it doesn't seem like it could hit the house. The arborist says it's okay. It, you know, they did their tests on it, whatever. So yeah. I I guess that's how I was viewing it was gonna be. Yeah, no, it, it is, it is denied. 'cause we want to keep that tree. <v Speaker 4>It prevents an air break</v> or builds an air from chopping it down. Right. Yeah. But yeah. But is there, what's the, what is the authority of the right mean? Because it talks about fines. So would they levy fines? Would that have to come back to us to levy fines? And <v Speaker 3>That would depend upon the, the charge of the committee</v> that would be outlined as part of their process. You know, it, there's a number of potential possibilities. You know, it could be a, a select board appointed committee. So the, the finding and enforcement structure would be approved by the select board, but the body would have the ability to, you know, enforce those fines. The commission could be the appointing authority and then, you know, finding would be approved by the commission that there's a lot of flexibility in a lot of these points as it currently stands. That's <v Speaker 6>Right.</v> George, you had, well, I, I was thinking of something a little bit different sort of a conflict. Our coverage that we're all thinking about and trees that are considered invasive now, we get a lot of them. I mean, the town planted a lot of them along the street ways. <v Speaker 1>Right. Invasives are exempt</v> the way that it's currently written. <v Speaker 6>Okay. So if someone wanted to,</v> they were not near any wetland or anything like that, and they wanted to make a nice bigger yard, so they, whatever the argument could be, and they had a backyard full of Norway maples, Norway maples, they'd be all exempt. And that would, what would that do to what we're looking at in the future? <v Speaker 3>George, I will note, just in this specific example,</v> depending on the area that those trees occupy, they may then trigger the storm water bylaw <v Speaker 1>Good.</v> <v Speaker 3>Because clearing,</v> clearing is considered a land disturbing activity. Yeah. So if they were to do 3000 square feet or more, that would then tip them into the stormwater bylaw. <v Speaker 6>I mean, that's, that's just one example.</v> <v Speaker 3>Yeah. No, I, I,</v> <v Speaker 6>We could have a number of those. Sure.</v> I'm just thinking of that. And however we write bylaw, when we wrote our initial bylaw and got it passed through town meeting and everything like that, we always have said, can't do this. You can't do that, da da da da. Unless the committee deems otherwise, or the conservation commission deems otherwise, that sort of, now is that worked into this in any way? Straight or form? Not currently. And I'm, I'm just thinking of it, it may not be something we should even get involved in, but it's always been something that I, ever since I've been on the commission felt was great because there could be circumstances where we could do something that they don't do in Washington. You know, we have like a compromise. We say, sure. We'll let you move a little bit more this way if you keep all this lovely area. Right. <v Speaker 1>Mike, what's your thoughts on this?</v> I mean, I think this, this is a really important philosophical thing that we, we as a commission need to clarify if we're gonna sponsor this and get into alignment on it. What's your thoughts? <v Speaker 8>So, I, I'd like to get back</v> to Jim's original point about the, the tree committee. And I think that organically it's, it's, it's imperative that that is established <v Speaker 1>The tree committee</v> <v Speaker 8>As soon as possible.</v> Because one is that that's gonna provide you more brilliant minds to help move this in the direction. That's true. That's positive. Okay. For the community. The other piece is, is that they're there as your box, your soap box. They're there to put forth a message. They're there to help with outreach and to get the community to understand the importance of what, what trees are to, to our community. So I, I look at it as more as an organic piece, you know, and I, and I don't want to step on arts toes, you know, but Tree City USA makes it very clear that there should be a tree committee in town, or it can be a tree warden. But you know, there needs to be a tree border or department. And Natick is a tree. City USA participant. And there's a number of things that go along with being a tree city USA town or city. And, and you need to check those boxes. Art is, is operating as the tree ward in which it meets that requirement. However, if art wanted to kind of not necessarily step aside from the tree warden role, he would still be the tree warden. But if you could establish the tree committee under the tree, city USA designation. <v Speaker 1>Oh, okay. And so your point being that, I mean, so whether</v> or not we pass a tree protection bylaw a tree committee could be the <v Speaker 8>Soap box.</v> It has to be, I think it has to be there. <v Speaker 1>So it, it could be the soapbox,</v> it could be supporting the tree city US city <v Speaker 8>Stuff.</v> Whether you have, whether you have a tree, whether the bylaw gets any legs and moves, or the community doesn't want that. They feel as overregulation. You still have a, you still have a group of individuals that are passionate. Just think of what we've done with the stewardship committee. Right, sure. You know, and their volunteer work and, and just all the wonderful positive things that come along with, with their work in the town and others. There's many other organizations as well. But I, I think a, a a, you know, a tree committee, I think to, to kind of reinforce Jim's approach. I, I think it is, like, that's the genesis. If you, if you want to start having kind of just thoughtful conversation about what trees mean to the community, why, why we're considering, you know, why this is a consideration at this point. And, and let the peers in this community, the folks that everybody knows and, and, you know, respects that may be on this potential committee, be the champion for the bylaw or for just a champion for trees in general. <v Speaker 1>So they could, but they could also to, to the point</v> that you made last time, they could also administer a prophylactic tree planting program as well. You know, one that kind of, we, we do <v Speaker 8>In parallel.</v> They could apply for grants that may, that may be the town doesn't have time to, <v Speaker 1>I think being, you know, being the action arm of the work</v> that we try to do that art tries to do. But as citizens, I think there's a lot of value in that. And so I think we could, as part of a package tree protection program that we put forth, there could be the tree committee, there could be this planting program that you were talking about using CPA funds, using DCR funds, using, we could go for different pots of money for that. And where the tree protection bylaw is a part of it as well. So I think that would make sense. <v Speaker 8>And then you would identify that tree committee</v> that is a staff, if, you know, again, I'm not a tree city USA expert Art is the expert on that. And, and obviously art would have to be in, in complete agreement that this is a right path forward. However, it would be an easy, it would be an easy thing to do without establishing the bylaw first. Yep. And then, and then subsequently naming that tree committee in the bylaw as an entity. So I just, I'm looking at it as just kind of organically how to get the community <v Speaker 3>More involved.</v> <v Speaker 8>Yeah.</v> <v Speaker 1>It's a holistic, a holistic approach.</v> Multi-pronged. And the tree committee, I think could be part of it. And the tree committee would, could be valuable without, even, without a bylaw if the bylaw doesn't <v Speaker 3>Pass.</v> Well, exactly. 'cause I think one of art's frustrations that he's expressed to me in the past is the, the lack of participation in the strategic tree planting program. Okay. There we go. Because art is limited in his ability to do outreach and advertisement about the program. I think that's, that's almost all the argument you need for the establishment of a tree committee. And so I I have highlighted this added agree underlines to add that to my agenda there. You <v Speaker 4>Think we can get this all before the town</v> meeting and Yeah, that's it. I mean, that seems like a, <v Speaker 3>So the warrant closes February.</v> Yeah. 20th. <v Speaker 1>If it's not April, it's fall, you know? Yeah.</v> <v Speaker 3>And that's the beauty of town meeting is that we're not</v> <v Speaker 4>Time, I mean, if it was fall, then you impanel this group,</v> then they could do the road shows help to help educate people well in advance of it. Because I think it would be a very, to do all these and then to try and get 'cause without advance communication. Yeah. <v Speaker 3>And I think if, if</v> <v Speaker 4>An open meeting on something like</v> that, people come in and talk Yeah. Then the town meeting members might not be able to make a decision at that point in. <v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Jim, you had something</v> <v Speaker 7>Yeah, I was, I was thinking of your, your example versus</v> what I was thinking about in the committee. Yeah. And then getting back to, I think, I think Mike would talking about this and, and it, and it's even in some of the write up, that's what I liked was we're trying to take a different tact and it's not supposed to be punitive. Right. So, so what I was saying about, well no, you, you can't take that tree down N no, we're not gonna do that. Right. 'cause I have the right to take that tree down. However, before you do it, you know, you, you take the problem at least. So we can explain to you the different options you may have. And even if you've said, you know, I've listened to everything you had to say, I'm gonna take that tree down. The other things we were talking about, like, well, you know, could you donate it here to a, a wood program? Or could you, you know, want, we don't want to just see it get all chipped up or whatever. Right. Right. Something positive that if that's the, the tact we're trying to take, at least initially as this thing launches, to get people awareness and be wi with it versus we pound the table and then that's when I think the bylaw, I mean, you know, Jeffrey brought up good points, the bylaw people, like, no way I get to take my tree down and not, you know, not a group of 10 is gonna tell me I can't. Yeah. Because there'll always be somebody that says you can't. Right. Yeah. <v Speaker 1>Yeah. That, that's the part that, I mean, my, my,</v> my head had been towards, you know, if you wanna take it down, you can take it down, but there's gonna be some, some remediation that happens. <v Speaker 7>And we can explain that, that the committee, I,</v> I see this committee doing a lot of education, I believe first hundred <v Speaker 1>Percent.</v> Right? A hundred percent. And, and so and so, in fact though, I mean there could even be a model where the tree committee is that where the permitting process is more of an admin, you know, one option could be the permitting process is more of an administrative option where someone just says, I want to do it. We, there's, this is the documentation. We've provided formula, it's documented and all that stuff. But where the tree committee is this vital engaged group that's out there getting out ahead of this Correct. And convincing people, I get worried about a situation where, you know, where there's this tree committee that all of a sudden has the power to even more dictate what people are doing with their property. And just, just from a private property, property rights perspective, I feel that it's, you know, I don't know that I'm there personally. Yeah. I think the <v Speaker 8>Bylaw will hopefully, you know,</v> I think if it's well thought out, and I think Jeff makes good points. And I think I've heard a lot. I, I think you can easily put guardrails. I think there's, you know, to kind of get to, to George's thing about invasives and, and there's part of me that there may be a situation where this triggers, you know, these trees also account for public health. <v Speaker 1>Sure. Abso a hundred percent. Right. So</v> <v Speaker 8>Is there, is there a mechanism where</v> the disturbance is so large or the clearing is so large that it is actually a public health concern? And that would trigger a public conversation because it's so, you know, so I, I don't know what that, that is like completely, obviously that could derail the whole bylaw conversation. But I'm just like, when I think about forest and I think about trees, there's clearly more and more scientific evidence that it is about health, <v Speaker 1>Human health. Human</v> <v Speaker 8>Health. Right.</v> <v Speaker 1>A hundred percent.</v> <v Speaker 8>You know, is there, is there a point</v> where, you know, the disturbance is so large and the tree removal is so large that it, it now triggers a public process? <v Speaker 1>I think the, the, from a scientific perspective,</v> I think the hard part on that would be, you know, it's kind of like saying, you know, does this, does this one, you know, is this one storm hurricane in the Caribbean attributable to global warming? And you can't say that. You can say there's an increased frequency of intense storms because of global warming. Is the removal of that one tree attribute, you know, can you attribute any human health impact to the removal of that one tree? Don't go that far versus a collective. <v Speaker 3>I actually think that we do have data</v> and science behind us, not necessarily from a holistic public health perspective, but from at the very least an extreme heat perspective of we have identified hotspots here in town from, from very recent studies. Would, you know, large scale tree removal in those identified areas qualify as a public health issue given the existing sort of, yeah. Existing condition issues or, or concerns that relate to that area. <v Speaker 1>So, okay. So we need to, we've got a grant in front</v> of MAPC to help us write the law. We need to give them guidance in terms of what we want that law to accomplish and how we in high level, how we wanna structure it. Yeah. So should we, I mean, I think having the tree committee being empaneled Well, I think, I mean, should be part of the bylaw, but I think we can do that also anyway. Yes. And I think there'd be great value in us kind of lobbying for that and starting to put that together. I think talking with art, kind of a comprehensive, you know, that tree committee could be charged with supporting art and the Tree City program Exactly. To get tree planting going regardless. And then in parallel, we're looking at a tree protection bylaw to start to bring some oversight and the opportunity to remediate when tree removal does happen. Are we comfortable with, I mean, at, at this point in time where my head is at, but I want, we, we need to be aligned would be to have the tree removal, to not have the tree committee be an oversight or public hearing process like you do for a, like a, like a public way, you know, like a public tree kind of thing. Yeah. But to have there be an administrative process maybe through the community development. You know, <v Speaker 3>I, I almost see them functioning similarly,</v> like the safety committee where they're a body that exists to review and educate the public <v Speaker 1>On these things. On</v> <v Speaker 3>These things. Exactly.</v> <v Speaker 1>But then when someone wants to do a tree removal process,</v> they come stand at the counter gear. <v Speaker 3>And I mean, we've got OpenGov.</v> So the reality is that that permit intake and application process is very streamlined. <v Speaker 1>Pretty, pretty straightforward. Exactly.</v> And so would people be comfortable with us charging MAPC if we get this grant to have it crafted that way? That it's basically, if you wanna remove a tree, you can, but there's gonna be fees associated with it to provide where those funds are used to plant more trees in other parts of town. <v Speaker 8>No, I, I'm agreeable to that.</v> I think the, you know, additionally, I, I think if somebody removes a tree, a tree without a permit, there's an enforcement, there needs to be a really easy streamline, whether it's to use, I don't know if we have a, a kind of a volunteer magistrate that can issue tickets. <v Speaker 1>We can issue tickets.</v> <v Speaker 8>Okay.</v> <v Speaker 1>Yeah. Conservation commission can issue tickets</v> <v Speaker 3>Though.</v> I think technically we only have the authority to issue tickets for the Wetlands Protection Act. <v Speaker 1>Ah, yeah. Yeah. So like in another,</v> I could issue you a speeding ticket In other <v Speaker 8>Commun in other communities,</v> there's sometimes a volunteer, you know, person that is, that is elected an elected official that can, that is a volunteer. It's non compensated that can <v Speaker 1>A constable.</v> <v Speaker 4>Yeah, I was gonna say that. Do</v> <v Speaker 8>We have a cons? Yeah,</v> <v Speaker 4>We do.</v> Yes. Did did it get, did someone run or having problems with someone getting on the ballot for a cons? <v Speaker 6>Well, we had one constable for decades</v> and I don't, I don't remember ever seeing it in the past few elections on the <v Speaker 1>I there.</v> I thought there was a couple of constables in the last ballot. <v Speaker 4>Were they, I'm trying to remember.</v> There was, but I knew that there was an issue that was open. Like they weren't getting people to, well, that <v Speaker 1>May, so this</v> <v Speaker 3>We have, we have five constables.</v> <v Speaker 1>Oh,</v> <v Speaker 8>Perfect. Oh. Including</v> we ticket writers all over the <v Speaker 3>Place. Todd Gillenwater.</v> <v Speaker 1>Todd Gillenwater. Right.</v> So, so I, you know, I think from that perspective, you know, this is where MAPC could help us kind of craft what that would look like. But if there is tree removal without a permit, you know, we need to design what that fine is. And I would suggest that the fine is simply what it would've cost him anyway to get a permit. So, you know, no need for punitive fines. The goal is to protect tree cover, not to punish people. <v Speaker 3>And I think if my discussion with art goes as positively</v> as I expect it to go, maybe the next step is, Matt, you art myself sitting down with Catherine Coughlin to talk about, because I think that the reality is, any committee that we put into place, I would like to see blessed by the select board. Of course. Yeah, <v Speaker 1>Of course. So, so it sounds</v> <v Speaker 4>On, on the fine understanding</v> that we wouldn't wanna do that. Could, could, could we then also find the company that took the tree down? So the punitive amount would be higher, but, but it would send a message to, to the, to the well who contractor contractors who <v Speaker 6>Would get the permit if there were a permit involved,</v> the companies would not. Yeah. Because they, you know, we've had things where, like the Great Wall of China, as we used to call it, was taken down company just said, Hmm, well <v Speaker 4>I</v> <v Speaker 6>Think we take it down.</v> <v Speaker 4>When I did, I had some trees taken down a couple years ago</v> and, and the company, we got a detail, got aing, it was a, a don use their name. <v Speaker 3>But I think the three companies have responsibility to do</v> and perform the actions that are required from a public safety perspective. I think at least most of the bylaws that, that I have reviewed and, and been involved with, the implication always comes back to the homeowner. And that it's the homeowner's responsibility to do due diligence on the laws and regulations that would impact them. <v Speaker 8>You can file some against their license.</v> <v Speaker 3>Yeah. But it's like, even with like wetlands violations,</v> you know, we're not going after the landscaping company, we're going after the homeowner. <v Speaker 1>I think it would just introduce a level</v> of legal complexity. Yeah. Where we're, we're wanting to do do that. I mean, I, I would stick with <v Speaker 3>The, I think we can certainly</v> <v Speaker 4>Issue issue, I mean,</v> <v Speaker 3>Strongly worded letters to the tree company.</v> <v Speaker 1>I think we could do an education campaign. Exactly.</v> It just says, listen, that's for your clients. Make sure they've got a tree permit or else, you know, your clients are gonna come back to you and say, why didn't you tell me I needed a tree permit? Educate them. I mean, and stump these and I mean you all, all the companies that they <v Speaker 7>Play ball, they're, they're dealing with it.</v> And because some of the, you know, other communities like Wellesley and they have 'em. Yeah. So they are dealing with it. <v Speaker 1>All the established companies are, are Right.</v> Good businesses. You know, I mean, they, they want to help their clients. You know, they're not gonna, I'll <v Speaker 3>Say that I have had several homeowners</v> who have reached out to me about tree removal and wetlands jurisdiction. Say, stump told me I needed to call you. <v Speaker 1>Exactly. Now all the, all these companies. That's</v> <v Speaker 7>Good.</v> That's a nice, that's a good thing. You worry about the low priced unmarked. Yeah. <v Speaker 1>It's the sole operators looking to make it. Yeah.</v> <v Speaker 7>I've seen a few of those too. Which</v> <v Speaker 8>Yeah, the, the fund, the only thing about the fines,</v> and I'll leave it at this is, is just, you know, making sure that it's easy. Right. Because if it has to go to court, it, <v Speaker 3>It complicates everything. It</v> <v Speaker 8>Just, it, I don't, one,</v> I don't think the court's gonna even accept, you know, if you have a fine for $200 that they're gonna say that's where Kara can, <v Speaker 1>That's</v> <v Speaker 8>Where Kara, we got something else</v> on the docket. Well <v Speaker 6>Remediation is, is great</v> 'cause we did it with a, a few people <v Speaker 8>And maybe that's, maybe that's the language that in lieu</v> of fine you can, <v Speaker 1>Or in lieu of fines or fees.</v> Yeah. That if you come with a replanting plan, you know where they, there won't be any fees. But if you come and you're taking down a big oak tree for whatever reason, and you know, and you, but you show up with a plan that says I'm gonna replace it with four acceptable species, then we say, great, <v Speaker 8>Do</v> <v Speaker 1>It.</v> You know, that, that's easy. <v Speaker 6>Well, with one place I can think of, we had</v> the town actually got some roading, put in some blacktop and things like that. And then we just said, okay, fine. You're not in any trouble with us any longer. So, <v Speaker 1>So, okay.</v> So it sounds like we're, we're kind of aligned on this. So, so one, one detail, and I don't know if it needs to go into the bylaw or if it goes into the regs, would be, what is that fee structure? <v Speaker 3>That I would say absolutely regulations. Okay.</v> If only because then we do not have to go back to town meeting to update it. <v Speaker 1>Okay. That's fair. That's fair.</v> <v Speaker 3>Hold</v> <v Speaker 1>Hold on one second. Hey Doug,</v> any, any thoughts on this? You know, kind of philosophically around how, you know, where this conversation is gone, just want to tap into your institutional knowledge. <v Speaker 2>I have institutional knowledge. Oh, good. You,</v> <v Speaker 1>You, you, you do Doug, believe it or not,</v> <v Speaker 2>I was thinking, you know, you could go to arbitration.</v> You were talking about who would solve something. Oh yeah, yeah. And be like the companies, we would be the arbitrators. <v Speaker 1>That's cool. Yeah. Good. Hello?</v> <v Speaker 3>Yep.</v> <v Speaker 1>Are you, are you comfortable with</v> where this conversation is going in terms of, you know, kind of airing towards, you know, if you wanna remove a tree, you can remove it, but there's gonna be remediation. Either you do the remediation or you're gonna pay into a fee, you're gonna pay a fee that allows the remediation to happen. <v Speaker 2>If, if it goes along with what we've talked about</v> before, the fact that if it's a dying tree, one that's causing, you know, could be real damage coming up, they could have that out without having to really replace it. Yes, <v Speaker 1>For sure.</v> And also there's exemptions for, you know, the way it's current in the bullet points, at least there are exemptions for people who are, you know, who are receiving public benefits. I forget how we worded it in the, in the outline. You know, that and, and then we can dip into the fund and use the excess, any excess funds to cover the remediation on that. <v Speaker 3>Yes. I, I know I the language specifically says</v> that funds can be used to replace trees where subject property owners are currently qualifying for low income exemptions, age related tax abatements can be used for the removal of trees. So if they want trees removed, people have to be willing to pay for that themselves. We're not getting in the business of funding tree removal on private <v Speaker 1>Property.</v> Well we just legally, but it's a mess. We can't Yes, absolutely. We can't, we can't do that. Yeah. Yeah. <v Speaker 2>But some kind of, some kind of wording where the first,</v> the first level is to replace it on their property. Yep. <v Speaker 1>Yes. For sure. Totally agreed with that. Always</v> <v Speaker 2>The priority.</v> I know somebody mentioned earlier that, you know, you could plant them, you pay for it to be planted somewhere else. <v Speaker 1>Yeah. One, one question that I've got is that right?</v> We currently have in here, and I don't know where the number came from. We say trees above six inch DBH. Is that the right number <v Speaker 3>Protected?</v> It is a, a generalized number that is accepted. I am more than happy to consider other numbers <v Speaker 1>Half an inch. No, I'm kidding.</v> <v Speaker 3>Half an inch might be a little,</v> we'll be seeing people come in for buck for and removal <v Speaker 1>At that point for mowing their lawn.</v> Yeah. No, but, but is is six inch an appropriate number? I mean it, it, it feels legit to me. How <v Speaker 4>Does it take a tree to get the six inches? Depends</v> <v Speaker 3>On the kind of tree.</v> <v Speaker 8>Depends on the species. I mean,</v> you're generally looking at two inches of diameter growth a decade. Oh. <v Speaker 1>So on the 30, it's a 30-year-old tree.</v> <v Speaker 4>Yeah. If you, if you're staring at this for a decade,</v> wondering whether to take it down and then it, then you miss out after 20 years, then on an average that's on you. You know, I mean, I think <v Speaker 1>Mean meaning what Jeff? Meaning that</v> <v Speaker 4>If you wanted to take it, all</v> of a sudden it's like eight inches and now you're like ah, you know, if it's gonna take, you know, 20 years, <v Speaker 1>Meaning that you think that it's enough time for someone</v> to think about it, make a decision about <v Speaker 4>It's you a weedy tree growing up in your fence, all</v> of a sudden it's something to get, you know, do some, you become a nuisance. <v Speaker 8>Nothing sneaks up when it comes to trees.</v> <v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's, that's the thing. So just know</v> <v Speaker 1>That's the quote of the evening.</v> <v Speaker 8>If</v> <v Speaker 4>It's</v> <v Speaker 3>The volume of maple saplings</v> that I'm pulling outta my yard every year. Yeah, yeah, <v Speaker 4>Yeah. No, okay. So</v> <v Speaker 1>Six.</v> So we're okay with six inches for now. Yeah, yeah. You know, <v Speaker 2>Well replacing though, you need to</v> take into consideration the species the six inches much quicker than others. Yeah. <v Speaker 7>Yeah. That's one thing they talk about</v> diversity too, right? So like, you know, some, some of the plants say, Hey, one for one, an oak with an oak, right? And then others say, oh no, you know, you could do <v Speaker 4>502</v> <v Speaker 7>Red seeders and one dogwood</v> and now that'll get you the canopy that you had here. But now we have a little diversity of species. And <v Speaker 3>I think that's where</v> <v Speaker 7>The, but that's so</v> the committee would help. <v Speaker 3>I was just about to say, I think that's where a place</v> where the committee can really serve as, you know, <v Speaker 7>I think the committee would be great for,</v> I think most homeowners. I, I know I would've loved to be able to have a resource like that, right. To go, oh wow, I didn't know. And I think that's <v Speaker 3>The way to frame it, is that, you know, yeah.</v> And it's something that I try to convince folks of the conservation commission in my office as well, is like, even if you don't have wetlands on your property, even if you're not dealing with a stormwater issue, yeah. You are always more than welcome to reach out to me for questions about drainage, about native plantings, about things like that. Because I would love to be able to be able to share that information with folks. So <v Speaker 1>Claire, I think let's make, let's get a bullet.</v> I I was just trying to add it in here. Yeah. But I don't have, I don't have edit access right now. But if you add a bullet point in there at the appropriate place that basically gives homeowners who have subject trees on their property that they wanna remove it, they can either present an appropriate tree replacement plan, subject to approval, subject to approval. And you know, whether that's the tree committee or whether that's an administrative process, we can talk about, or they can pay a fee proportional to the size of the tree they're replacing. Where that fee, the funds from that fee will then be used to do replacement plantings on other property. So, or or on, on not on theirs necessarily, because we don't have the right to go in there and plant trees on property if they don't want 'em. But it's like if they, I think we can wordsmith that so that if they, if they want to cut down a big tree, they can replace it with a, an appropriate number and we'll come up with a formula for that on their own property or they pay a fee and the proceeds of that are used to fund tree replacement in other places in town. <v Speaker 3>I've got something rough in there right now,</v> but I'll play around with a little more. And <v Speaker 4>The fund would pay for to put trees on people's property</v> who may not be able to afford to do that <v Speaker 1>Or wanted Sure.</v> Or yeah. Right, right. Elderly, whoever, you know, tax abated people or whatever. It could be used for that. It could be used in town forest, it could be used in other places. And then we can come up with what the appropriate fee structure is for a given tree. Yeah. I mean for, you know, based on a formula. And I think it needs to be on a formula so people just will know. <v Speaker 3>Yeah. And there, there are some</v> models in other communities bylaws that we can use for that, that funding piece of things. Right. Mm. I do have one larger community and economic development update that just, I didn't have it before the agenda, otherwise it would've been a separate discussion item. But are, are we, yeah, I don't wanna cut this off. I just wanna let, are we <v Speaker 1>Good for right now?</v> I mean, I think we've got a good, a good set of basis, Claire, forward if you're gonna meet with art this coming week, could you just let me know when that is and if I'm available? Love, love to sit in and join. Yeah, <v Speaker 3>I was gonna, I'd, I'd try</v> to get with him on Monday or Tuesday. 'cause those are the days that I'm in. So if you have any times that you're specifically available and want us, <v Speaker 1>I'm available both days.</v> Okay, great. And just, just let me know when it is and I'll, I'll try to make a point about being in here. Wonderful. That <v Speaker 3>Would be, I'll</v> <v Speaker 1>Let you know. Fantastic. That'd be</v> <v Speaker 3>Great. Yeah.</v> <v Speaker 1>Okay. So anything else on this right now?</v> <v Speaker 3>Good.</v> <v Speaker 1>Cool. Yeah, thanks for the,</v> this this is a really solid discussion. I think we're aligning, aligning nicely on this. Alright. Clear. Other updates? <v Speaker 3>Just one big one for the town.</v> So Art Heim actually, and Tony Cuomo from the water department reached out to me earlier this week about some tree work that they're hoping to do at Town Forest around the reservoir, right around the water tower. It is actively holding water. It supplies water to the, the northern part of town through gravity feeding. They have some concerns about the proximity to the fence of several white pine trees and some larger limbs of other trees and are hoping to do some tree removal and some tree pruning to create a, a clearance corridor around the fence. The, the reasoning that was provided to me is that apparently the top of the reservoir is, is a single span piece of concrete that's only about three inches thick. So the concern is that if a larger limb were to fall and potentially that could <v Speaker 1>Be really problematic. Yes.</v> <v Speaker 3>Because all the water in the reservoir is clean water.</v> So the water, if it was breached, it would have to be fully drained and refilled. <v Speaker 8>Now listen, Doug will remember this</v> back in the mid seventies. Doug, do you remember when there was a Volkswagen Beetle parked on top of the water tower? Do you remember? <v Speaker 2>There were a lot of things parked in the Town</v> Forest in the seventies. Well then <v Speaker 3>Maybe I'll go back to them</v> and say, well, if the beetle didn't break it. <v Speaker 8>Yeah. The be the Beetle didn't didn't break that well.</v> <v Speaker 1>It's kind of like when I was from an MITI was just gonna</v> say, when I was at MIT, all kinds of stuff was parked on the roof of the dome. Oh yes. On a regular basis. <v Speaker 8>Hey, domes are very, very strong. They're</v> <v Speaker 3>Very,</v> <v Speaker 1>But all that being said,</v> all that being said, it's not, we <v Speaker 8>Don't want a branch going through it.</v> <v Speaker 1>Right. It sounds like a reasonable tree request.</v> So what's the big update then? Oh, <v Speaker 3>That's, that really is the big update.</v> Oh, okay. So I, I Northeastern Tree would be doing the work. Yeah. I would be going out to meet with them in advance of any work to review the final trees that they're hoping to remove. Tony, I did ask because I did have some concerns about such an immediate opening of some areas that are currently pretty heavily canopied. Are we opening up the door for the invasive problem that we have in Town Forest to potentially expand? So Tony and I are gonna work together on putting down some new New England wetland plants, appropriate seed mix in this corridor that they're gonna clear because the intention is hopefully for them to mow it, to maintain it regularly so that they're not back in front of you in 10 years looking to remove more trees. <v Speaker 1>And they would just access it up the Bacon Street Road</v> <v Speaker 3>Up the Bacon Street Road.</v> They, they would be limiting the equipment as it circles the water tower to only what is absolutely necessary. They don't actually plan on putting any equipment inside the fence. So it would really just be one. There's a, and Mike, you might know more about this than I do, apparently there's a piece of equipment that is essentially a mechanical arm that they can use to hold the branch in place as it's removed and then they can lower it to the ground in a controlled manner. So that, that is, I believe, what they're planning to use to do most of this work to minimize any potential impacts to the surrounding areas. So if the commission is comfortable with that, I will move forward with coordinating with them. If you guys would like any more information, I can have them in front of you guys at the next meeting. <v Speaker 1>I think with yours and arts engagement</v> and oversight, I don't, I don't see a need for us to, you know, interact anymore on this. I think it's totally fine. I think we need <v Speaker 8>To rebuild the astronomy observation area up there.</v> That would be nice. Where was that? <v Speaker 1>Well,</v> <v Speaker 8>You know, there's like a,</v> <v Speaker 3>A bunch of</v> <v Speaker 8>Concrete help posts, Doug help with this.</v> There was a, yeah, concrete pillars one <v Speaker 3>And there was a sundial is what</v> <v Speaker 8>I've heard.</v> Yeah, sundial. There's one that would, would key in, was it for the solstice? One of the solstice would key into the, the North Star. There <v Speaker 1>Was a few That's little</v> <v Speaker 8>Astronomically.</v> <v Speaker 1>Aren't there, aren't there 24 hour lights up</v> there, like low level lights? Or is it, is it dark up there at night? It is. <v Speaker 3>I believe there is one small emergency light on the,</v> the pump house station that's right adjacent to the water tower. It's <v Speaker 1>Pretty dark, you know, you could do some pretty</v> cool drone spotting. Yeah. <v Speaker 3>The, the town used to do camp,</v> camp outs up there, apparently. <v Speaker 1>Oh, that's</v> <v Speaker 3>Cool.</v> <v Speaker 8>Alright, we'll</v> <v Speaker 1>Leave that one alone.</v> <v Speaker 8>We'll, so shoot down.</v> <v Speaker 3>I mean, they, they're Roman pick pond,</v> so I wouldn't be surprised if they're Roman Town Forest, who <v Speaker 8>Is this nice coyote?</v> Right, right on Melvin Road. Right on Melvin Road. Yeah. Well, the coyote, yeah. Killed a rabbit. <v Speaker 3>There's a, there's an injured, you could kill him.</v> Wound did Coyote in our neighborhood. That's been all over the Facebook pages. But the problem is that there is, there is a resident on Harwood who dumps bird seed and cereal Perfect. <v Speaker 1>To feed the coyotes. It,</v> <v Speaker 3>I believe it is intended to feed birds,</v> but the coyotes do come and eat it. They're <v Speaker 1>Like, Ooh, corn flicks. Yes. Yeah,</v> <v Speaker 3>Let's, let's roll</v> <v Speaker 8>That tree with peanut butter.</v> They're the page to report. <v Speaker 3>Yes, there is. And, and just, so the commission is</v> where I'm hoping to be able to, in the spring, send out letters to all of the neighborhoods around our conservation areas. Just providing a link to our website saying, Hey, did you know this was in your neighborhood? Just not as a targeted, you're doing something wrong, but just as a, Hey, did you know that this is townland and there are rules and regulations that govern it? Yeah. <v Speaker 1>Let's let, let's collaborate on,</v> <v Speaker 3>Oh, there's gonna be back and forth. Absolutely.</v> <v Speaker 1>That's on drafting. On drafting that.</v> 'cause I think we can, what we can do is frame it as a, frame it as an informational, educational piece. Yes. <v Speaker 3>I was definitely gonna be bringing a</v> draft to you all before anything <v Speaker 8>Went out.</v> When you say rules and regulations, it's a little subtle. Alright, <v Speaker 1>So we, okay, so we've got the, we're we're continuing</v> to refine the outline for the bylaw. I think the, the whole tree committee discussion is great. You know, that gets us far, much farther along. I really like that. Where that, where that stands and kind of the agreement on the holistic, you know, this is the, the tree protection bylaws. Just one part of a program to maintain canopy cover. Yep. In town. Alright, is there anything else that we want to cover tonight that Alright. If not, happy New Year everybody. Alright. New year, you know, get some good downtime. Hope you all take six weeks vacation. Yep. And <v Speaker 8>More like four years</v> <v Speaker 1>For the retired amongst us.</v> Alright. But, you know, thank you all for Happy <v Speaker 2>Fest Us</v> <v Speaker 8>Festival.</v> <v Speaker 1>Thank, thank you all for your service</v> and we'll, we'll reconvene in the, in the new year. Doug, thank you for your service and look <v Speaker 8>Forward to</v> <v Speaker 1>Thanks, Doug.</v> Look forward to seeing you soon. <v Speaker 2>I would've showed up, but when I looked at the agenda,</v> I thought it would take me three times longer <v Speaker 1>To get him.</v> I ConEd out. I think you're right. This meeting will be, that's true. I think you're right. Okay, folks, someone make a motion to adjourn. 2024. So moved. All right. Thank you, George. That's seconded. Seconded. Thank you Jim. All those in favor? Aye. All right. See you Doug. Happy holidays everybody. Happy holidays, Doug. Thanks everyone.