okay good evening my name is Bob Connors at 6m I'd like to call the March 5th meeting of the Newbury Conservation Commission to order Sean can you read the remote open meeting law Preamble and take a roll call vote of members present good meeting so my name is sea young it's the March 5th open meeting I'm the conservation agent for the town of Newberry please let me confirm that all members are present conservation Comm commission members when I call your name please respond in the affirmative Bob Connors H yes Brad Duffin he's muted yep we did get the visual thumbs up from Brad okay Diane O'Brien yeah Mary Rimer yes and welcome aboard Sean nice to meet you Mike Bryan or Mick Bryan sorry uh Brown yep I'm here TJ KY I don't see TJ yet but uh sorry if I'm butchering names no no you're you're doing great and I have Woody Knight and Woody Knight yes thank you Sean okay good evening everyone this open meeting of the town of Newberry Conservation Commission is beginning conducted remotely in accordance with Governor Baker's executive order dated March 12 2020 the ACT relative to extending certain covid measures adopted during the state of emergency which has been extended until March 31st 20125 under the ordering order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law this order suspends the requirement of the open meeting law to hold all meetings in a publicly accessible physical location it allows public bodies to convene entirely remotely un insuring reasonable Public Access oh sorry it'sing reasonable Public Access so that everyone can follow along with the deliberations of the meeting please note that this meeting is being recorded and that all attendees are participating by video and or telephone conference and the recording will be available on the Newbury access YouTube channel meeting materials were provided to the commission members prior to the meeting for review before we turn to the first item on the agenda permit me to cover some ground rules has everybody been in a meeting before yes yes yes yes okay so we don't need to go over the rules no we can wave the rules we everyone knows everyone always operates in a very professional manner finally each vote taken in this meeting will be conducted by roll call vote now you can turn to the agenda okay all right thank you thank you Sean upcoming meeting dates team on March 19th and April 2nd uh meeting minutes uh for review we have a number of meeting past meeting minutes that Sean and I are working on and we have to go back and kind of recreate some of them uh so what I'm going to do is hold the review of any meeting minutes till the March 19th meeting and I'm confident we'll be able to clean up uh meeting minutes going back to de December 5th all right so just move on to the next okay first order of business is a certificate of compliance for D file number 05014 05 61 Boston Road for work on a septic system is the applicant present to make a presentation okay Sean did there are still some people in the waiting room okay why don't you why don't you bring bring the amendment if you would while we're doing that Bob can I ask a question yes you make you can certainly Mar uh just about the upcoming meeting dates I I I was listening to the to the um Preamble that Sean was reading and it it sounds like the um open meeting law only go that allows virtual meetings only goes to the end of this month is that correct or is it 2025 catch that thanks and and actually I think Healey is uh thinking of making it permanent from what I've heard but which certainly makes it more convenient to have a quorum being that we're a very mobile Community okay uh so 61 Boston wrote it's for work on a septic system Sean did we ever get any feedback from the Board of Health whether this uh has been the plan had been approved uh I'm assuming it is because we issued an order of conditions um Sean have you had a chance to take a a drive by that site see if it not but the system has been installed and the certificate of compliance was issued on 12 21224 it could have been my predecessor okay okay so there was a certificate of compliance issued on uh 12 24 okay all right well then it requires no further action on the part of the commission just double check that if you would Sean is that a certificate of compliance from the Board of Health yes okay oh okay yeah yes okay okay well why don't I open this up question any questions team on this Mary what's your thoughts Sean hasn't had a chance to drive by it to to verify its completion yeah I this my direct neighbor so I'm not sure if that presents a conflict for me I don't I don't know but I would just ask Sean when he does do a driveby just to confirm whether or not the site is stable um and and vegetative growth is reestablished it seems like it might be kind of quick for that so it might need to wait a little bit longer to get that okay thank you Mary Sean so why don't we do this why don't we push this back to the March 19th meeting and if you could schedule a driveby with that and if you have any questions we they can address them photos would be helpful that would be great okay any any other questions from the members Woody any questions in this one does that make sense no not right now I think that's the right thing to dok thank you witty Diane how about yourself any questions in this one no Mick any any questions uh no sir no questions okay Brad Duffin any questions no sir thank you Mr chair okay is I don't see TJ so I'm assuming he's not he hasn't signed in yet all right so moving on to the next matter before the commission is a certificate of compliance for D file number 0501 1263 six Old browley Road for work to add a portable water tank Sean can you provide an overview on on this and make a recommendation um or is the applicant present okay doesn't sound like the applicants present Sean can you schedule a driveby on that I think the same thing if you could take pictures uh and report back to us at the March 19th meeting does that seem like an appropriate action team Mary sounds good to me okay yeah there wasn't any real description of the project in the Dropbox I mean I don't know what a portable water tank is but I didn't either that's what I meant I was just like what is that what does it entail and it didn't really describe it okay well team so it's a poble water tank so who knows what they're using it for um drinking water facilities yeah they're near the S Marsh um that project's been uh since 2018 so I think it's expired well the certificate in compliance if the work has been completed prior to expiration uh our policy has been that we will entertain a certificate of compliance if the work has been completed according to the order why don't I stop there Mary you want to add any any further comment on that no okay anyone else uh Mick Diane no further comment from me no questions okay so I think uh same thing put that on your site inspection list Sean if you would and we'll put that on the March 19th meeting agenda okay uh request for a determination of applicability uh our file number 4354 Johnson Lane to work on a septic system did we hear from the Board of Health Sean that that they have approved the plan as submitted yes so the Board of Health approved the plan on February 22nd of this year okay but the system has not been installed yet okay well they they're waiting our determination whether we're going to come in with a negative finding or require an order uh why don't I stop there and let's open this up to is the applicant is the applicant available there's a raised hand okay Alec I think is this your is this one of yours Yep this is uh my project can you guys hear me yeah Alec why don't you give us an overview of what you're proposing hello so my name is Alex Chong I'm representing applicant at for Johnson Lane so this is your standard uh septic system replacement or upgrade it's a failed Title 5 system and we're replacing the old system with a compliant Title 5 system we um it's all the EX the system is going to be in essentially the entire backyard it's kind of a large system unfortunately but it's all an established LA area it's going to be it got approved from the Board of Health last week or a week and a half ago I forget exactly I think it was last week but we got approved from Board of Health um there are wetlands off property according to GIS uh before a couple months ago back in January or so I spoke with Samantha seeing if uh we're okay to file with us an an RDA going with a mass mapper and she suggested just to go forward with that and um per the mass mapper um boundary are about 75 ft away from the system components but everything is within the established LA area okay let me open this up to questions from the member uh Mary any questions on this matter is there a plan that we can look at um yes I'm I I come back from the field late I sent a plan over to uh Sean if you guys mind could or Sean could you please open that up if you don't mind because I cell phone unfortunately my only concern is you know a um plan that relies entirely file should be in your drop boxes or drop boox but can can you open it Sean and share it with the commission I need to take my raised hand down how do I do that don't go anywhere Alec no I'm good I'm staying here I'm just tooking my hand down is that sharing yes yep that's the plan if you mind just zooming in the top right corner so uh we can see a little bit bigger again I apologize I'm unable to do this for you all righty so the edge of lawn you can see if you see my um if you zoom in there's all zigzag line that's the edge of lawn uh it's kind of near the 50 Foot buffer that little gray zigzag line that's the edge of lawn and and that beyond that there's some you know hard Oak hard deciduous trees uh no indication of wetness obviously I'm not an expert in that department but no indication of wetlands on the actual property itself it does look like it's a little bit beyond our property um but if you guys are concerned I'd be happy to have a s sidewalk for you guys to make the determination as well but I just don't think um getting what the flags delineated on a neighboring property for a septic upgrade would the most appropriate action for this project okay Mary any any question yeah I would just like to be able to confirm you know that the wedland is roughly where it's shown um it's not critical I know for septic upgrade if as long as it meets 50 feet um and that would meet the title five requirements but uh without with just retire entirely relying on mass mapper and having no one else view the site sounds like um I think that we should probably have some confirmation of what's on the plan first okay so Mary are are you are you asking or recommending that the Wetland be flagged or just schedule a site visit for just a site visit yes and i' be happy to meet out there with Alec or with um or whoever and just confirm that so that we have some level of comfort what um what oh that's a tough question my question when are your availability that's a scary question to ask so so let me do this let me see if there's any other question and and then we'll wrap this up by uh coordinating what what date would work for the commission Sean yourself if that's okay all right thank you Woody any any questions on this matter for Alan no I think a site walks probably in order and other than that no I don't have any other comments or questions thanks Bob okay thank you Woody Brad any any comments uh no Mr chair I think it's pretty straightforward and yeah it's fine thank you bran Mick any any questions on this matter just uh quickly like I don't think it shows or maybe I'm not seeing what the existing system is and you know the size of the system compared to the existing so the existing system itself I don't there was any available plans show the exact footprint we have the tank if you zoom into where the proposed tanks are you can see the existing tank uh for my best guess I it's a Cess pool that's going to be or a Lee pit roughly in the middle of the field so I don't have the exact dimension for that because it's lack of records and uh Sean for a second could you just zoom in on that Locust for me sorry which part top right the Locust in the lower right okay oh yeah see sorry okay okay all right thank you thank you no no further questions I again I agree with the the members that site walk is definitely would be good here okay thank you m Diane any questions on this matter is the proposed system in about the same place as the existing system the approximate yeah the existing system was a like assess pool each bit type of thing it's the approximate location give or take because I don't know the exact location because of lack of record plans okay okay I I don't have any questions I think a site visit would be prudent Sean is there any raised hands from the public at this time no okay all right so so team we're going to request a site visit uh we'll continue this matter to the March 19th meeting uh for further review what would be our pleasure I think we've been meeting what the Tuesday after the meeting has been what we've been doing is a a typical site visit that be February so that' be what March 14th 12 um 12 okay that uh what time what time do you guys would work for you I think 8:30 and N9 o'clock is what we've been doing I can't do the 12 but others go that's fine okay I can do uh 8:30 for um the 12th of March Tuesday March 12 all right tamam how does that work for for everybody Mary does that work okay for you sure that works okay Woody is how does that work for you great that's great thanks Brad is that okay for you okay mick how about yourself yeah I can do uh I can do the 12th at 8:30 am as far as I know right now okay and Diane cannot make it and and I'm going to be unavailable myself though all right uh so team we're going to continue this matter I where this is an RDA um well why don't I do this just for the sake of convenience is there a motion to continue this matter to the March 19th meeting so moved technically we have to receive the applicant's consent first yeah okay Alec you're I'm assuming you're consenting to you're requesting it continu for the public for the site walk yep yes okay all right so we have a motion do we have a second second okay uh all those in favor of continuing this matter to the March 14th um March 19th meeting um all in favor Mary yes Woody yes Brad Brad you might be on mute hold on okay I'll come back to Brad Mick okay Mick yes I Diane yes okay and I'm gonna go Circle back to Brad Brad give us yes yes thank you Brad okay moving on thank you okay uh we have an extension of permit D file number 0501 12481 Elm Street for extension permit request for work on buffer zone uh the original filing according to the d portal was June 9th 2017 so my question Mary were you on the commission back then was this a a threeyear or fiveyear uh order we are only allowed to issue threeyear orders okay so this would have expired uh it's from the issuance of the order of conditions not when it was filed so and we we've uh excuse me this is uh Wendy Reid with the Governor's Academy we um did receive one extension already and that was um July of 2021 okay so that would so that would expire um June of this year okay all right why don't you why don't you get provide an update for us in this matter and why are you requesting a second extension sure so um this plan was meant to cover all activities on campus I mean essentially the entire campus is a buffer zone so just for our normal Landscaping um Road plowing um you know tree cutting that kind of thing we sought to have test management practices laid out for each um of five areas on campus and so we've been operating under this plan um since 2018 we made some revisions in um 2021 um and then requested another extension and so we're just requesting another extension again um I mean I guess at some point we'd have to file a new notice of intent and but it's all the same practices nothing has changed in our our um best management practices or activities or anything like that okay why don't I see what questions the members have Mary any questions no just we can't issue more than two extensions so this would be this would be the second the maximum we could get was another three-year extension right and yeah so at that time we'd have to file another notice of intent correct yeah yep okay okay uh Woody any questions on this one no uh but been listed in it makes sense so no no questions okay Brad any questions on this matter I'm good Mr chair thank you thank you Brad mick how about yourself any questions uh no questions Bob thank you okay Diane any questions no okay and I have no questions uh I'll entertain a motion to approve the extension of one Alm Street order of conditions for an additional three-year term or final three-year term so moved second okay so Brad moved it Diane second it roll call vote all in favor Mary uh yes and I would just add Wendy if you could please send me and the town fresh copy of the original approved management plan that would be helpful just so we sure have it handy thank you thank you Mary yeah Woody yes Brad hi Mick hi Diane yes and blad Hors votes yes okay the next order of business a continued public hearing D file number 050 1386 43 33rd Street the work to install a driveway to provide onsite parking with Associated site work including work within the 33rd Street right of way uh I see Tom Hughes is present tom do you want toh provide a overview and an update on this yes um actually Mr chairman uh we're still waiting for our attorney to get off a train so um I'm wondering if you could take the next order of business and then table this and come back to us right after that okay members uh are we is everyone okay with that that's right yeah okay all right Tom will'll uh do you want us just to put you at the very end Tom um whatever the pleasure of the commission I mean that certainly would be the safest to make sure he has enough time okay okay comment briefly yeah go ahead thank you sir I expressly asked of both Mr Hughes and their attorney at what time they expected to begin because I made it here on time and did not go to a different commission to which I was also scheduled I'm only pointing that out to say that this discourtesy is not appreciated it's not the conservation commission's fault thank you very much okay thank you Jamie okay the next order of business is a continued public hearing on De file number 0501 1409 18 forom way blue in LLC for after the fact approval of work to replace two sets of beach access STS uh the the applicant has notified us that they're finalizing the beach management plan which was the uh the last item that we were requiring uh and is seeking to continue this matter to the March 19th area so with that I'm going to stop Mary any any questions on this one um no but I I think we we need to be seeing some progress on this so it doesn't get um you know delayed it was an enforcement action so I just want to make sure that that there's being 's active work being done on this to to move this project forward Tom why don't you give us a quick update on U you have finalized your Beach management plan you're reviewing it with your client um yeah actually I I want to give it one more read through um I've taken essentially what DCR did for our management plan at Salsbury Beach removed a bunch of things that aren't relevant um but use the basic format to uh then get something to fit uh the end and I just want to review it one more time then I've got to go through it with the client to make sure that we're in agreement on that and then get that into you so that is actively in process um and uh and I'm I really want to close this one out too so okay can I suggest that you also get natural heritage and sign off on your come back obviously anything we submit to the commission that changes our initial noi we do have to send to natural heritage and get their sign off so um okay all right Tom I'm just going to give you a heads up the commission is probably going to be looking at a guideline for continuances uh in the near future so that where that the just not going to be unlimited number of continuances w without having to re advertise Ren notify the abutters and so forth but right just giving you giving you a warning on that that it's not on our agenda tonight but it will be on our next agenda because I'm going to put it there so yep just for your warning on that yep all right uh thank you the applicant has requested a continuance to the March 19th uh meeting uh is there a motion to continue this public hearing to the March 19th meeting so second okay roll call vote all in favor Mary yes Woody yes Brad I Mick hi Diane yes and Bob Connor's votes yes okay next order of business is a continue public hearing on D file number 0501 1422 94 Northern Boulevard for work to conduct landscaping hardscaping and Paving work team this just came in it does show on the portal uh the number but Sean received a call from d and so Sean why don't you give us the update of what the technical comments were on on this pilot so I spoke to Jim and the comment I did get on there was that their plans were a bit confusing but they put them together and that they didn't like the papers because they can become projectiles other than that there were no other comments okay is the applicant present to make a presentation Ashley I'm assuming that's yes Ashley are you making the presentation on behalf of 94 Norland you're on mute if you uh can you hear me yes we we can Ashley okay um yes I I will present the information hey Ashley just give us your name and and your title and and then give us your best 10 minutes of what you're trying to do hi I'm Ashley Hill I work for TM Landscaping um in Hamilton uh and um we are working with the client in uh Plum Island um we're looking to the client has done some recent Renovations on the inside of the house and is now working on the the landscaping for the front of the house on the street um looking to improve on what is existing which is basically just a dirt um a broken asphalt paving area um a dirt Paving area for so it's about two cars in paved area partially paved area in front of the garage uh two cars worth of a dirt parking area and um just sand um and no walkway or anything to any of the um entrances to the house so uh they would be looking to uh excavate the existing asphalt and repave the area in front of the garage um put down PE Stone in the existing dirt paved Area dirt parking area um with something to contain it so ideally like a cobblestone edging to contain the pstone um and some kind of cobblestone or paper skirt to to prevent that Stone from spilling out into the street um and ideally a a uh pervious PA walkway to the front door which is on the right side of the property um so trying to direct people to the actual entrance to the house um and then associated with this would be native landscaping and some landscape lighting to improve visibility from the street uh there's also a um fence that ose fence that would uh be attached to the garage um or or next to the garage uh to contain and and um concealed the trash receptacles um so this would have an access point um but actually do you do you have a plan that you can share with us I do y that'd be great if you thank you so Ashley a question I have is what is the current square footage of the paved area and what is the proposed repavement of that area and is there any increase in the square footage do you have a table we could expand that um I don't I don't have it written down right here but it's about half that's existing that remains uh originally this whole area in front of the garage was paved um but the previous owner when there was road work done on the on Northern Boulevard um he did not uh repave this when it was torn up for that work uh so I can get the measurements it's probably about half that SOA about 250 square feet and now um you know would be bringing that to 500 square feet so you're looking to increase the pave area from 250 to 500 or am I do I have that backwards um yeah it would be an increase of what is remaining of the existing um of of the original paved area okay do you have a picture of the existing driveway yes did you see that yes so there's a part that that does you know that remained that did go all the way down to the street um but it looks like this was all torn up during construction of I don't know if they're doing utility work on the street um I don't know the exact details of what was done with the previous owner and his time there okay Ashley why don't I stop you there and open this up for questions uh Mary why don't I start with you questions for Ashley on this application um yeah can we project the plan once again please um so this is not a this is a notice of intent I we're not doing RDS it's a notice of intent um this is not a stamped plan this is not a survey plan this is a sketch from the landscaper which um doesn't include a lot of information doesn't include any information on grades it doesn't include um you know context of you know where the site is and it it from what I could see of the site it doesn't didn't it's not exactly lining up with um what is actually on the site so I'm uncomfortable with the the plan that it's been how it's been presented there's just lacking a fair amount of information that we would typically have I'm uncomfortable with increasing the um driveway and or any imper uh impervious area on site this is a coastal Dune um we don't have any information on what flood zone it's in on the plan it's just not a plan that we could we could easily use to um do a certificate compliance from because it it it's just not it doesn't have enough detail so um I appreciate that you know the the plantings um where they're proposed I don't you mentioned removing material and and resurfacing we don't know how much material is proposed to be removed it's just I I just don't think we can accept this plan that's my opinion okay Mary Mary would it would seem also that a site visit may be appropriate too just to to get AAL for this all right Mary I'll Circle back after we go through the rest of the members Woody what are your thoughts on this one I agree with both of you uh a little more details on the plans would be great and uh maybe a side visit would be in order so everyone can get a feel of what's going on there okay thank you wiy Brad I'm sorry any anything else Wy I didn't mean to no not at all thank you Bob okay thank you Woody Brad yes yes Mr chair uh so I I Googled just Googled this on my phone of of uh exactly where 94 was on on uh Northern Boulevard uh it's interesting that a the Google photo came up with 12 years ago um and uh more than half of that um of that space in front of the house uh was had beach grass and other uh vegetative growth in it and it looks like per this plan uh the uh souly car space is encroaching on on what that what that uh space was 12 years ago so I I agree that uh we need some more detail on this and I'd also like to see a more detailed plan on the existing block retaining wall to be repaired being repaired does that mean being taken down and replaced with something else or does that mean being faced uh does it mean being raised or lowered um there's a fair amount of question questions that uh uh I I think would need to be answered on this and is this part of a bigger development uh I don't recall um this applicant coming to us uh with any of the renovations to the house uh that I do know are being are under um happening right now okay good question it's not part of development it's a single family home no no I do know excuse me uh Ashley uh I do know that um it is a single family home but I also do know that it it it is being renovated because I walk by it every day and the fact that there's a dumpster in the front yard uh and the picture that you show tells me that it's being renovated so yeah I I live there this is my house Mor I'm on the call um the house was not finished inside so we've done a lot of work putting flooring in and um things like that so um that's mainly what we've been doing we change some windows things like that in terms of Renovations and we're going to be getting a permit for a bathroom project but that hasn't started typically what happens is before you start work on Plum Island you you'd come to the commission for a request for determination of applicability if you weren't having any EX outward expansion uh you would likely receive a a negative finding that would typically be your first step uh I know that sounds a little bit strange but I live on Plum Island and a number of other the members to those are the rules that we we we operate by to be in compliance with the Wetland protection act um so let me do this uh Mick any questions and then then we can recap just thank you Bob uh just maybe a suggestion for Ashley something to include with a more uh detailed plan I think is uh we do always try to look for what you're doing with with construction or debris or materials that you remove while you're making improvements and what the plan is to you know prevent runoff and sedimentation from your you know your excavation spoils so that's something to consider um as you upgrade these plans I think a site walks in order uh and just had a question uh maybe Sean or Ashley might be able to expand on the comment regarding the pavers becoming projectiles and it's just uh I mean we talking about where are those pavers going to be installed and and what was the the concern I guess you just give me a little more detail Sean what the comments were from from the agency so it's just like any or a lot of items on Plum Island that when you have severe weather they can those objects for example the pavers they can rattle their way out and then they can become projectiles okay so actually Mick I'm sorry Mick do you have any any any other comments you want to add oh no that was just try to get a just my head around the the whole comment on these pavers coming loose and exactly where they were going to be installed it looks like construction's coming you know across the easement really and right the edge of the pav paved Road that's what it looks like to me so as typically what we would expect to see for a notice of intent would be your plan would be submitted to a surveyor it would identify exist exting conditions and proposed conditions uh with tables of what we're doing what's existing for pavement what the net reduction uh of the pavement is and and typically that that's what we would expect to see your plan would typically usually go to a a surveyor or or registered engineer to provide that documentation what that does it affords the commission the ability to ascertain that the net impact to the resource area uh and when the order of conditions is issued if we have to a include any additional special conditions um when you come back for a certificate of compliance it just adds Clarity to what we're approving what we expect and and giving you really a road map of what we would expect to be completed okay okay so what I'm going to suggest is team do we want to schedule a site visit before we get an updated plan that shows existing and proposed it would almost seem U it would almost seem it would make more sense to get the updated plan with existing and proposed schedule a site visit uh and and and then go from there but I agree that out Diane what are your thoughts on this I think it'd be better to do the site visit afterwards so then at least we'll have an idea of what we're looking for okay so as what what I would suggest is talk to your client you you you need a more detailed plan showing existing proposed proper tables we do we do have this site survey from um that was done by a surveyor but it doesn't it's it's not showing existing versus proposed and the quantities yeah that looks like uh it was done by ett Chandler and you could give him your proposed plan and he could overlay and create the plans that you need for submission from this okay okay so what you have U it would seem you would want to request a continuance to a meeting in the near future to give you some time March 19th is our next meeting that probably won't afford you enough time to get a revised an updated plan with proposed and existing in place we could put it on the agenda for March 19th uh and if you're ready then we could take further action and schedule a site visit uh if not you could request a continuance if if You' need more time okay well we certainly try to have it done before then okay I mean so you're requesting a continuance to the March 19th meeting have you public hearing yes okay all right team we we have a request from the applicant to continue this public hearing to our March 19th uh agenda uh I'll entertain a motion to continue the public hearing so moved is there a second okay roll call vote all in favor say Mary yes Woody yes Brad yes Mick Diane yes and Bob Connor's V CHS thank you Ashley it it looks it's it's a great looking plan it just we need some more detail okay so the I'm going to revert back to the uh 333rd Street uh property so D file number 0501 1386 333rd Street for work to install a driveway to provide on-site parking Associated site work including work within the 33rd uh street right away uh Tom Hughes do you want to give us a a recap of where we're at on this and then Jamie I'll I'll certainly let you respond there a be ble yeah um so I'll give a a quick overview of of the materials we' submitted what's transpired since the last uh hearing and also do want to let you know that so the train had had issues which is why chip is delayed he says he'll be on within you know five minutes or so so we uh we should be okay I can I can start uh if there's any questions I need him for obviously we may have to defer till he joins um so when we were last in front of the commission you may recall I had responded to a Town Council opinion um and uh and there was some discussion about the plans and and uh all of that and we uh we continued in order for us to evaluate the commission's comments as well as to uh request that our response go to uh to Town Council for some followup uh a follow-up letter was written by Council in December unfortunately it ended up finding its way to an old email address I haven't really used actively in about 10 years and so I only came upon that a few weeks ago um actually about three weeks ago and uh so in reviewing that um we packaged up a response got it in uh with a couple uh plans that we had tried to work on to be responsive to the commission and um and thought they showed you know good Alternatives as to why why why we really need to go forward with the the project that uh that Town Council does you know restate their position it requires a variance um and we've provided those two plan Alternatives that we came up with as uh supporting information in that variance request you may recall I made the variance request in that letter where I responded to Town Council so that if Town Council still felt that way we had our variance request in and um what I'd like to do quickly is I can share my screen just pull up the plans um and walk through the variance criteria uh with the commission uh so I'm going to share screen if that's okay with the commission um of course I know it's not your agenda that we need to do I just need to hide the panel so I can actually choose the right things okay okay so this is the plan we had before you at the last uh Commission meeting and as I had discussed 33rd Street is not really a traveled way so much um other than uh to get you know to get to this property but it's more of a pedestrian way it that is used to get to the beach uh by folks on Plum Island in this area it had been used for 70 years essentially as the driveway and parking for for this property and as we've talked to the commission about before the town uh asked the property owners to stop parking there and so we came forward with a proposal to bring the parking onto the property um as we've discussed before we we produced a plan that had a little bit of a drive on the on the site and some turnaround area here um and uh and basically the purpose of this was to give enough room for a vehicle to actually navigate into the parking space and also to be able to turn around and go out head first um basically in the interest of safety of of any pedestrians using this and also the issue of backing out of this you know fairly narrow area and most of the time having to cross Northern Boulevard across traffic uh to turn heading towards the center um so so that's um that's what this plan is when we looked at the two Alternatives of not doing a turnaround and not having this drive runup because Town council's opinion is if we do any driveway um that that would trigger a variance requirement and Improvement to the roadway extension of the roadway would also require a variance requirement so we looked at first stacking the sites and if we the the parking spots if we did two 9 by8 spaces you actually can't turn in and stay within the rectangle so you have to do kind of an odd shape that really almost negates the use of this first spot to be able to get up in here um and then you do have to back out and the other thing we looked at was uh Side by each and in that case you can get a a single vehicle in it does have to back out but you're creating two spaces really to get one usable space and if you tried to get two cars in there maybe if you had a couple small cars and jockeyed around for a while backing in and out of 33rd Street in the process you might be able to get two cars to fit um but it really doesn't doesn't really work very well or very efficiently or or in a manner that is as safe as being able to sort of pull in and then you know turn around so you're really doing much more minimal sort of backing in and out of 33rd Street but as we pointed out before in the tradeoff of keeping our impacts low we did you know there is some jockeying still needed to have two cars work here but it's not anything like what it would be with the other Alternatives um so in terms of um you know looking at the at the bylaw and the criteria that was in my earlier letter you've got the um the issue with um you know are there any reasonable alternatives to provide parking Well street parking is available in the summer at the discretion of the Town based on getting a permit but it's not available throughout the entire winter and the family uses this property year round so so that Al alternative um really doesn't exist in terms the next thing is about do we propose uh mitigating measures and and in terms of that in my view we do we we mitigate for the vegetative impacts um we did do our best to minimize the footprint of of impacts and um you know we improve Dune function the areas where we're proposing to plant are more ACC areas within the Dune system this area here has its function somewhat diminished because it's sheltered from uh winds and uh and sand Movement by the structures that exist on either side here um and in terms of an overriding public interest you know I look at the fact that the bylaw invisioned providing reasonable parking for properties that were in the Visa Zone and the AO Zone um but in a in a situation where you strictly apply that without granting a variance you essentially don't provide the two parking spaces that are envisioned you're basically using two parking spaces to get one in either of these scenarios um and so I think in general the uh the bylaw intended for people not to go crazy in the velocity Zone or the AO Zone with parking and not to go beyond the minimal they need but I don't think I I think it's consistent with the intent of the bylaw to allow reasonable parking that gives you those two spots and that necessitates in this situation the turnaround and the drive um then uh it does not so basically the next thing says that it doesn't authorize you to wave any any parts of the Wetland protection act we have not requested that you wave anything related to the Wetland protection act nor do you have the authority to do that um and we believe we firmly meet the performance standards consistent with other approvals uh that this commission has granted in the past and um so to that I believe you know we meet the variance criteria and and Town Council in their uh memo to the Commission in December indicated that that our response provided the basis for a variance and uh generally concurred with that and suggested that that you know through testimony of the applicant at the hearing we go through these uh these elements I just went through so I have done that I think we've um we've been round and round on this I think we'd like to to you know move forward with a a vote on the variant um and uh you know obviously answer any questions the commission has first and uh and try to move this thing forward okay thank you Tom so I'm going to open questions up to the members and then I'll open it up to the public and so Jamie I'm not forgetting about you uh so Tom you're proposing if I if I understand you you're proposing the uh variance in excess of the 324 Square ft uh to be expanded to the 466 square feet uh and if the board does not uh grant that you want to propose you want to go with as the alternate the complying with the Vio without the variance am I correct yeah I mean I we need some parking and I think were the commission to deny the the variance which applies to both the extent I of 33rd Street and the the drive to get to the uh the parking between the two options I mean this one you know is this really a 9 by 18 space you know the area works but it isn't really a 9 by1 18 space it also is much more difficult I think we would prefer to go with this one which at least allows one car in there um and back out but it does it comes with with issues and problems related to the you know to both its use as well as the uh you know the use of 33rd Street by pedestrians so so yes I think what I would like to do is move forward have discussions about the variance if there are tweaks that the commission would like for us to make that would enable a variance to to Grant we can certainly disc discuss those um but ultimately if the variance fails I guess between the the two options we would want to uh to go with site plan B I think okay let me stop you there Tom and open this up to questions from the members uh Mary what questions you have for Tom or concerns um yeah this is a difficult one so uh so I I would say that if if the commission did approve a variance it would have to be demonstrated that there was no other way to do this and that there was mitigation provided and one of the Alternatives might be and I don't know if this is the case um it's been a while since I've been at the site but it's seemed like there were on the west side of this house there was quite a bit of like sort of accessory structure um porches or sheds or things like that that seem to be pushing your driveway uh closer to the lot line there and I don't know if there's any opportunity for making some changes to the layout of the house or anything like that to give you oh it's a porch okay there's a porch there's steps um that's what the limitation is there yeah I mean so that's a wraparound porch all the way okay right and and we do actually have to move the stairs even to make this work so we are you know we are adjusting the structure um it's a much more significant change to start getting into removing the porch here um it might be necessary to to get the the required mitigation is all I'm saying you know throwing it out there that that's that's one option I also wanted to ask you about the turning radiuses that you were showing is that something that the engineer provided or is that that's from the engineer you added okay no no no no that's all from the engineer um that's a on a stamp plan y just want to make sure yep yeah and the other thing I do want to point out is we've got 1100 square foet we're doing two to one for plantings so we're providing significant uh planting and also in an area as I as I said this is an area that is not as exposed in fact you have some um some sumac that's growing in here which you typically don't see in a primary frontal Dune area like this um and that's because you don't have a lot of sand movement in here you you have you know the north Northeast winds coming and this area is sheltered where we're planting the dun grass will will have significantly more Dune function yeah and I I'm appreciative of the fact that you know to get proper access to a house you know you need to make reasonable space for not just two passenger cars but whatever other vehicles might need to service this house in the future so I cognizant of that as well um I I'm curious what other members have to say about this so I'll pass on okay and I'll Circle back with everybody Mary I think the approach is going to be Mary that Tom is requesting a variance we'll we'll address that for us and depending on the outcome of that we will follow up with the the second option okay thank you Mary Mr chairman can I just quickly respond to something Mary said um I do want to point out this is this is really only for two cars park it's not going to be any whatever other vehicles it's just for two and we would gladly accept a restriction and any order that set that um yeah my my point was just to you know the turning radius has to be able to accept right something bigger than a passenger car at some point potentially so right right okay okay thank you thank you Mary Woody questions for Tom what are your thoughts on this one I don't I don't have any questions at this time Bob uh I might in the future I'm just gonna okay once we go through the first round of questions for members I I'll double check with everybody and I'll open it up to uh public comments Brad what are you what's your feeling on this one uh this this is a tough one because uh I can understand uh the homeowners plight to try and establish um permanent parking on their site um uh as I've stated previously probably five continuances ago uh that I I respectfully disagreed about backing out onto Northern Boulevard there the speed limit on Northern Boulevard is 25 miles an hour and a number of the uh properties that are adjacent or even on the other side of Northern Boulevard uh have to do that every day so uh that argument for at least for me doesn't hold a lot of weight um I'm also a little uncomfortable with uh the way that this is presented that if we don't approve then we're going to go after that um to me those those are separate issues um but that I can understand why Tom did this and and presented it this way because of the the ultimate need to get parking on the on the property so um as Mary said uh this is this is this concerns me but if somebody's taking a straw pole I am uh not in favor uh as presented for a variance to this okay Brad uh Mick anything else Brad before I move on no thank you thank you Mr chair okay thank you br Mick your your thoughts and comments on this matter yeah a question for Tom uh Tom when I was uh at the site a few months ago for for site visit it there was a discussion at the Eastern end of where your proposed turnaround is there was uh a dune there that was uh kind of created by non well by some invasive species and there was a comment to remove that Dune to accommodate your your area uh kind of in we see the 10 foot and then dune grass uh yes in that area is you know what if you're going to remove that Dune what is going to stop migration of sand into that that proposed area for a turnaround um you know although it is invasive species creating that Dune it the Dune is there and it does serve a function uh so I didn't see anything in here that would be you know they even mention the removal of that that small Dune and uh what you would be doing to compensate for that right the um so the the way this is done and and Sean is on but basically this is a this is a fill so we're actually adding material so that we don't have to do anything there may be I think you're talking about the remnant sort of snowplow burm um which which I think there may be there may be some of that but we've basically got all the Spock rates here we incorporated and reviewed the um comments from the neighbors engineer and our engineer revised this the um sand moving through here we're not looking to stop it and de routinely puts conditions when they approve a project that involves a driveway in a dune system that requires any sand accumulation on a driveway um to be removed by hand and placed back into you know any debris taken out of it and it put back into the Dune system um so we're not looking to stop the movement of sand um there is some movement of sand in this area it's a little more exposed than in this area but it also was vegetated with Woody uh plants including uh Oriental bitter suite and uh and the regosa rose neither of which is native um and obviously the Bittersweet is on the the list of invasive plants so um you know our grading was ref to make sure that it worked with existing grades and didn't extend over the property line in any way and uh you know if the town is plowing gravel mixed with sand up against that if it's you know then that if it's a if it's a sort of fresh plow layer that would get removed but I think that everything else has actually been tooed and worked into the plan okay thank you you know I do have to you know to follow up on Mary's comment I do agree that you know variance really you know requires a you know show that there is no other alternative and and obviously you've represented us for youve present us with two other Alternatives although not optimal they are alternatives so um you know that's kind of my position on the variance as we go forward right um I don't have any other questions at this time yeah and and Mr chair if I can respond um as well on that in terms of the Alternatives we put forward essentially they both are sort of workable for one car to be able to back out so we don't we can't get two spaces uh without a lot of work and maybe with some smaller cars um but the other big item is not so much the backing onto North and Boulevard I recognize his driveways and all that but it's the backing out on a on essentially a pedestrian route to get to the beach um is also not ideal from a safety point of view but um but I can respect the commission's decision on review of the Town Council letter we we wanted to come forward and make our best case for the variants um if we have to live with essentially functionally one space through alternative B it's better than not having any parking but but it it really is not an alternative in terms of being able to get the two spaces that I think the bylaw envisioned and that I guess that's that's our you know point on that okay thank you Tom Diane questions for Tom on this matter um yeah I've been here twice and it's been going on for a while um my thoughts are essentially that it's not like they decided to do this on their own they were told to do it by the town or at least they were told they couldn't Park where they had been parking um I think what we're calling you know Tom's Alternatives aren't really it doesn't really give you two spaces and I think the idea was that we're allowed to give two spaces and it there has to be a way to get to those two spaces and if that's some footage that would have to Grant the variance on then in my view it's it's if you look at that space it's not just like backing out onto Northern Boulevard you're backing down the street and before you get to Northern Boulevard where it's less of a street and more of a pedestrian walkway in my view um you know I think it's used more by pedestrians than cars it's the only other house that's up there um you know I think there's mitigation that's been proposed and [Music] and I guess that's that's my view it's parking on the street I don't think is a viable option for them and they've been told by the town that they can't park with a Ben parking so I think if we're gonna give the two parking spaces then we have to give them a way to get there okay thank you yeah I mean I think the I think a lot of valid points have been raised by by the members uh the the one the one remaining matter for me is 33rd Street is a beach access it's not really a roadway uh and I think the reason the town has required the applicant to move the vehicles off the roadway is to provide an unfettered access for uh pedestrians uh and the the increase from the byw of 324 Square fet uh which would be without the variance or the proposed 466 Square ft um now um I'm I'm right on the right on the edge here Public Safety the intent is give tup parin spots is the bylaw uh the the additional 140 square feet of which is primarily in a ride of way of the town so I'm going to stop there Mary I'm going to circle back to you we're going to go through the commission one more time then I'm going to open this up to public comment and I'm quite sure Jamie will have some thoughts on this matter yeah I don't I don't have any further comments at this time I be interested to hear what Jamie has to say okay thank you Mary H whaty any any other comments couple quick clarification questions because I can't read all the plans um is it right way now ploud I mean paved um and go ahead okay so there is a square of pavement right here which is around the sewer manhole so when the sewer went into Plum Island the compromise with d was they allowed a essentially an apron of Pavement in a square around each manhole so that they would not get damaged during plowing activity but the rest of Road remains unpaved yeah it remains unpaved it remains gravel and uh you know we're looking at you know gravel uh for or clam shell for the uh for the surface for the parking okay and one more quick clarification question um about we ACC cursor is that corner I believe it's the northwest corner of the driveway where it meets the right away how far is it from the corner of that property line to Northern Boulevard um yes see I don't this is where the the property of Northern Boulevard is I can't say it doesn't label that as P paved or non-paved so I don't know but basically you are looking at uh 5.54 in so that I think this is a 10 scale plan so 55 ft 55 ft okay thank you I I haven't been on a s sidewalk here so I sorry for the clarifications thank you Bob okay thank you uh Woody Brad any any followup on your comments no like I said this is this is a tough one thank you thank you Mr chair okay thank you thank you Brad uh Mick I have no other questions or or comments this time thank you okay Diane any any follow-up comments nothing no thanks okay and I have none uh Sean do we have any raised hands from the public at this time I know that Jamie is I I can't see her raised hand but I know she's there oh there she is oh so she's actually raising her hand okay okay Jamie welcome I I think the commission is well aware of the the multitude of communications you've sent in on this matter uh and your opposition to the proposed work um I if you could be concise we would appreciate that but I would be delighted may I share my screen while I speak sure very thank you um now of course I have to figure out um how to click share screen where I couldn't before there we go all right can you see that yes sever a few of you and perhaps Sean well welcome Sean pleasure to meet you uh on a zoom and again thank you all the Commissioners for your volunteer service this is what you are looking at this is not some snowplow residual from the town I think people need to be aware of exactly what you're looking at doesn't matter how you characterize it as is it Rosa mosa is it invasive is it not this is sand this is not difficult in my opinion about what you're looking at this is a doom the next image I wanted to share is this is the area where the parking spaces would go and this isn't even their most vegetated state now um you change slides we don't yeah that thing we're still looking oh sorry I did yeah um you you didn't see that no no it has not changed I'll try again can you see that one if you so you're currently probably viewing this on one single layer all right let me just try another one uh my apologies and I'll be very very fast you're welcome many things to do here there now does that one show no you have a shared screen got share it where um I'm trying give me two seconds I'm not usually the presenter um so I'm not as skilled as many people are um so if you go to share screen yeah all participants there you go so you can see that one but now when I try to share the second one yep we'll see it now you got it now if you yep to the X thank you so I just wanted you to see while I spoke that this this is where you're talking about putting parking spaces and it's a this is not even its most vegetated time so just with the images of that Dune and the parking spaces allow me please to say also how irritating it is with all of your professionalism that I have asked repeatedly for This Town Council document that supposedly came out December 6th and I was told expressly no Town Council has not been asked for any updated opinion and then as recently as the last few days when I've asked for whatever that letter was supposedly dated December 6th while Tom and the applicant seem to have it I do not so I'm going to respond as best I can but I don't think it's appropriate um to have no public record um when it's in front of you and I've asked repeatedly for the public records I understand there's a transition not a problem but it is a problem when the public is not informed and able to comment to appropriately so what I have to do is comment as briefly as possible first on just the variants and then I understand Mr chairman you'd like to uh do what you want to do on that although my recommendation would be there should be no vote um until um the documents have been made public and provided to those who asked for them so first that second it is absolutely not true as presented by Mr Hughes that it's a necessary matter of public interest not to be able to back out it's it's a overriding safety concern one of you Commissioners has already noted that it is beyond commonplace to back out in that area 102 104 106 108 Northern Boulevard they all back out and that's just a few of them it is also absolutely not true um that it's a necessity to do this there is no necessity for parking on site even though it's been abused uh for whatever number of years as admitted by the applicants representative uh to use the public right of way for their own private property purposes this is private property that they want to convert to include parking to improve its value which is entirely understandable but not what the job of the Conservation Commission is to do so now I turned to the standards for a variance and those I've provided to you before you've cited to them quite well some of you but I think it's worth repeating the presumption is against approval that's why you have not granted a variance in anybody's recent meory memory including the last 5 years no variances granted what a precedent this one makes to take this down and take down a dune in order to Grant a variance um there are no the requirements are no reasonable conditions or Alternatives that would allow the project to proceed in compliance there are reasonable conditions or Alternatives that would allow because they said so themselves it it just irrational to say there aren't any and not or mitigating measures proposed to allow the project to be conditioned so as to contribute to the protection of their Wetland resource areas located on the barrier Beach not so you just saw a doom and the mitigating measures proposed are elsewhere not right here and the variance is necessary to accommodate an overriding public interest this is not an overriding public interest as I just said about the backing out issue is being the only thing even if legal council said it was possible to meet that requirement I'm quite certain this legal council would not have said they did meet the requirements of a variance that's up to you and legal council would not have told you you must Grant this I'm certain of that uh or to avoid a decision that so restricts the use of the property as to constitute an unconstitutional taking without compensation there is nobody on this call that has even begun to mention this being an uncon constitutional taking without compensation so there we are I'd like to point out that as far as reasonable Alternatives go not only haven't they looked into getting Town approval to park on the street in the winter which could easily be given um as a as an approval to park there also I respect Mary reamer's I respect Mary period but I respect the observation it's not just cars it's also whatever delivery vehicles delivery vehicles have been coming to the site for as long as there's anybody been using that site not a problem um so the other Alternatives that also haven't been mentioned include they haven't made a single inquiry about getting parking spaces through a lease by nearby properties that are available for lease parking spaces including on a long-term basis not a single inquiry and I'm trying hard not to be fresh but it's getting a little tiring to hear as if it's an entitlement to get these parking spaces and it's only a question of how we get our entitlement parking spaces I'll now stop because you've let me go on long um Mr chairman thank you very much uh although of course I'll take a question but thank you very much okay thank you Jamie okay I'm gonna Circle back Sean are there any other members of the public that have a raised hand that would like to speak not that I see okay uh Tom I'm going to let you respond to to Jamie's comments and I'm going to circle back to the members okay um so certainly um with regards to what information has been available through the town and not available through the town I I can't help with that the I ask you um it's not my job to be providing public record so um you know in terms of uh of what we're looking at in terms of safety it's not the backing out under North em Boulevard it's the backing down 55 feet of uh of area that is being used by pedestrians to access uh the beach and um you know we would disagree with regard to the public benefit one thing I do want to note is that when you look at the footprint uh with regard to Mary R's comments I mean we are putting it where there's a wooden walkway where there are some stairs where there are some structures within that it's not the main beef beef part of the porch but I can let me just share that it's a little bit tough to read till you really zoom in but you can kind of see there's a wooden walk right here there's walk here that connects to the stairs all of this gets removed in order to to allow this to uh to go in um so we are doing that we are also mitigating uh with regards to um the area at the end there all of that I mean that area was surveyed by a land surveyor picked up the grades and the engineer Incorporated the grades into the plan without any cut so my understanding is no cut I think Shawn Malone who is the project engineer is in the meeting so Sean I don't know if you wanted to add to that let me just double check in participants but I'm pretty sure yeah Sean yeah no I'm I'm here Tom but um and the question that you posed to me was what Sean Sean please identify yourself in your title yes and actually I'll turn on the video as well um yeah good evening everyone I'm Shan Malone Oak Consulting Group I am a licensed professional civil engineer in the state of Massachusetts so Sean the question was in this area and actually so here's here's the end of the fence and the attorney for the Neighbors showed a picture that shows a mound kind of right in this area I think that 245 Spock rate is probably the the top of it yeah but does your uh plan necessitate any cut in that mound of Dune or or are you fing to to work around it we're we're basically matching the same grades so so no cut you're basically matching into what's there right right okay so I think that that's the only other question I think that that um was out there now with regards to lease parking somewhere nearby I mean we're talking about uh you know folks who are not getting any younger the family that owns this house that the you know this is the children of the original owners and then their children and and the children of the original owners are you know you know with it's just it would be burdensome to cause them to have to to walk significant distances to get into a family house that's been in the family for 70 years um and I think that the as I've said the bylaw envisioned giving reasonable accomodation to parking for properties in the vzone but because of the sensitivity to the vzone um they wanted to limit it so that people didn't you know have license to put three four five six seven spots so with regard to that I mean I guess um you know if the commission feels it's necessary to cure the the lack of information that was provided to the neighbor's attorney and wants to vote at the next meeting I'll leave that up to the commission um but we're comfortable with our position and and I I would say when I say that we would accept alternative B one parking spot is better than nothing and backing up still creates safety issues but that's that's the reason I say that okay well if the if the variance fails then we would ask the commission to then take the best of two bad options and uh approve those we would still include the same mitigation and uh and just try to move forward so the family can have a spot to park thank you Tom uh I'm going to open this back up to Mary Mary you you've heard both the Jamie's passion on why this shouldn't be approved and you've heard Tom's rationale why it should what what further questions do you um I think that we have all the information we need to or I do at least um have the information I need um at this point and one suggestion I might make for procedure is that we close the public hearing portion of the project whenever the members are satisfied that they've received all the information that they need to make a decision and that we schedule a time at our next meeting to deliberate on this and um issue a our findings just just one one way to go about it so it it's every time I think about this I think about it in a little bit different way but I do have the information um I think at this point to understand the project and what it's attempting to do so okay thank you Mary so so Mary just just for just for clarification we we we have an alternative to the variant uh are you saying close the public hearing to both matters or yeah we don't have to we don't have to decide tonight necessarily on either one of them um okay we could if you'd like to but um yeah I mean so then let me ask you a question Mary you don't require any additional information at this time I think that's really the no this is the as I understand this is the plan that the applicate would like to put forward so I think this is the plan we are to vote on if they yeah okay thank you Mar Woody any any questions that you have any additional information that you feel is necessary um I would just like to comment that thanks both Jamie and the applicant for their information and I'd also like to say that I I will abstain and vote because I missed the beginning of this so public hearing and I missed the S sidewalk but that being said um I agree with Mary that this is the plan they're presenting so this is the plan that should be voted on and that's all about thank you okay thank you Woody uh Brad do you need do you request any additional information this matter or have any other follow-up comment you're unmute Brad if you're you can speak I'm I'm good Mr chair thank you okay uh Diane do you have any uh requests for further information or comments on the discussion no I don't have a request for further information I've just been looking at the plan I mean the parking spaces the distance between 33rd Street and where the two parking spaces start it's not a large distance it's a few feet and it's just I think the bylaw allows us it's not an entitlement but the bylaw allows us to grant them two parking spaces and if someone owns a house on Plum Island and they need two parking spaces I don't think they should have to lease the space someplace else or you know Park in the public way if the town is telling them that they can't be there so gu that's my comment okay and you know what I I think this matter has been before the commission uh for a long time we've had a lot of information we have received a legal opinion which was for the benefit of the board uh and uh Jamie if you didn't get a copy of that we'll provide you one uh you can always do a foyer request if you if you wanted to so it you did a foyer request in that document to the town clerk or The Keeper of the records okay that as you know a foyer request goes to the keeper of the records or the town clerk um so I will say I will be very quiet and say only thank you I did ask I asked specifically of your agent and I asked of Mr Hughes um and respectfully information request can be made by saying this is an information request which is what I did but thank you I I appreciate where you are right now I know what you're going to do thank you okay all right team there's no other raised hands from the public it looks like there is one raised there's Richard okay yeah Richard oh okay he he is is legal counsel for the applicant uh good good evening Mr chairman member MERS of the commission yeah i' raised my hand when Tom was speaking so that I could piggyback first uh I'm I'm sorry that I was late I I think that Tom con continued this or tabled it because I was on the MBTA I'm lucky I I did get here anyway but I think I just wanted to make a couple of real quick points I know that you have all the information in front of you I think one of the concerns that members may have that Jamie tied to was this precedent question uh the reason that a variance was included in the bylaw was because there are certain circumstances certain times when it's appropriate for you to make a a change or a different uh um action on a matter just because of the circumstances and we have those unique circumstances here and that's why it's that's why it's a variance you know we have an instance where we had parking that's not allowed in the in the public way it's not appropriate on the Street and I think everyone agrees that this distance coming down from um this location down to Northern Boulevard is longer than others and it's also has a public way that's intervening so it is more dangerous than any of the of the others but I I don't want anyone to believe that if this variance is granted that that means that there's going to be a deluge of notices of intent for people to put two parking spaces you know all over for the town that's not what happens precedent is uh it does not create is not created here it's a caseby case basis as the as the members know and I think as the as the chair knows and I look at this test as a you know the old avoid minimized mitigate test I think uh members of the board we've attempted to avoid having impacts we have made changes in order to reduce impacts we've minimized them and we've also provided substantial mitigation you know more than two to one as Tom has explained so I understand that this is a difficult vote for the board but I also believe that we've spent as much time as we could to make sure that that uh the impacts are are are lessened by the uh by the design last thing I'll say is I was under the impression that Jamie had a copy of the uh decision from the or the guidance from the from the Town Council I will say to her if she didn't read it she certainly pared what it said which is clearly as she surmised uh there was no recommendation that the variance be granted in that letter it stated that we made a great start and we had met that the uh the test on a preliminary basis and those things would be fleshed out and uh and she's also correct that we have never argued U that the a denial of this would be a taking without compensation and we've never argued that this is an entitlement you know we take the commission's decision to be very difficult and that's why we believe it's appropriate at this time so I I thank you for your time Mr chair and and members of the board yeah I I I think the I raised the question to Town Council we simple question was the bylaw allows up to three 324 Square ft and the proposal had proposed 466 Square ft and would that be could that would that be allowable under the bylaw without the granting of a variance and the answer was no but uh it would require a variance that that's the sum basis and that was guidance for the commission uh it was a legal opinion for the commission document is available can be secured by a foyer request all we can try to get it over to you uh but I'm comfortable with uh the the content and the commission is comfortable with the understanding guidance from the Town Council and in polling all the members uh and correct me if I'm wrong members that there's no request for additional information or plan Amendment are adding additional content uh to this project the is that correct Mary you have no further requests yeah the only thing I might suggest is that we mark up this plan showing an area that is it contains the 320 square feet you how much of this hatched area would would comprise 320 square feet so that we can actually see where the overage is occurring which I assume is the is the turnaround area that it's right there there okay thank you yeah and you can actually see the the center between two parking spaces yep and then the other mitigation I failed to mention is we are adding storm water management which obviously isn't required for a single family home just the um Infiltrate The Stone trench along the right right okay thank you that's helpful okay that then that's the only other information I that was necessary uh Woody do you do you have any further comments on this no further comments Bob thank you okay Brad any any additional information or plan amendments or any additional content oh good Mr chair thank you okay Mick is there anything else you'd like to see included or anything that's missing no no further information from me no additional questions thank you thank you Mick Diane how about yourself okay and I don't uh have any additional requests for documents I will entertain a motion to close this public hearing so move second okay so Brad you moved and Diane you seconded it I did all right roll call vote all in favor Mary yes uh Woody yes Brad I Mick hi Diane yes and Bob Connor's votes yes so team we we have two options uh we have 21 days to deliberate on this which gives us uh our next meeting uh or we can entertain a motion to proceed and I think Mary's Council on uh closing the public heing and and processing this address it at at next meeting um is a very lucid one but uh what's the pleasure of the commission uh Mr chair I propose that we table this for deliberations at the next meeting okay is that the consensus of the members Mary would your idea I think it's a good one yes okay Lucid once today yeah you know what it it's it's it's a milestone closing the public hearing I think it's a credit to the patients of of all the all the members and certainly of the applicant and and to Jamie um what he any any objection to uh addressing this deliberating in with within the 21 days no what's proposed by Mary and by Brad it sounds good okay uh Mick any further comments you comfortable no I'm comfortable with uh with continuing deliberation next meeting okay public speak we've closed the public hearing yeah public hearing has closed okay Diane any any further comments I just I just had a question when you're saying like so don't vote today deliberate next week so that's open meeting public deliberation it would be at our next schedule meeting pros and cons we we here we we would be able to continue deliberation on the variants uh on the proposal in any special conditions that we may entertain okay okay all right so Sean we'll put this on the agenda for the March 19th uh open meeting that meeting and and Sean do you have uh if you could get me a copy of that that document if you don't I'll make sure we forward a copy of it to you thank you very much and please to be clear I have the original one what I don't have is the one referred to in Mr hughes's letter that says it was a letter dated December 6th that um chip Nyon referred to as one that I seem to have intuited a lot of what it said but I don't have that second one and thank you okay thank thank you Jam me because I don't get to speak again thank you all for your professional attention much appreciated okay thank you okay well team that concludes our uh public sector tonight and thank you chair and members okay thank you all right team uh under Administration Sean welcome your baptism by fire here at the new Conservation Commission and do you have any staff reports or updates you you had mentioned earlier Sean that you would received some communication uh from Trustees of reservation on a update on the the Wetland mitigation I have so I was sent from Mary that there is two reports phase one and phase two I will send those in link to to the Dropbox that those are in that's all I have from that and I was sent an email can I get into the next item yeah certainly okay I was sent an email from Tom Hughes about sand uh impacts of sand or trying to find it here oh I I I recall that uh Tom had sent a communication team that on the beach nourishment underway in Salsbury that the the sand being provided uh had an outdated Civ analysis and the sand itself had chained uh the costess was fine but the fines within it were increased and it was more an FYI that on on Future Sand nourishment matters that a a Civ analysis of the materials being proposed to be provided by in this case I think it was Bentley Warren yes it's Bentley Warren that they no longer provide a reliable source for the grain sizes that the town is used to for the persby sand Y and that dat that uh sand analysis should be done before allowing hey te I forgot hear I I apologize I could so consumed with 333r street that poor Ryan Kelly's got his hands up oh sorry six March yes okay Ryan apologies we we we haven't totally forgotten about you so team we have a d file number 0501 1421 6 marshmallow Lane for work construct a two family dwelling with a septic system and utilities team if you remember uh this was the original order of conditions uh unfortunately it was there was a request for an an extension uh and it and it didn't make the three-year uh cut off there was no tolling under covid uh and the applicant uh submitted we issued a certificate of compliance uh for that matter to close out the original order of conditions that matter the the filing has been resubmitted has a file number there were no technical comments on the submitt uh from the d portal and Ryan I hope that I've covered what you've done here if you want to add something to it it's up to you sure yeah and Bob Grasso from Els is here representing um but yes we thank you everybody I'm uh hopefully this is going to be the easiest part of your night and uh we've been here before and we are literally just trying to basically update and resubmit so we can actually get this project going okay so team let me open this up to members for questions I think we we all remember this Mary do you do you have any further any follow-up questions on this or any other well I I think that maybe there are some members who weren't here when the original order was approved and aren't familiar with the project okay good point all right well I don't know if we you know they would like to see it it's it's you know it's it's a significant project with new construction so um if they want to schedule a site visit or anything to just to understand the project I vaguely remember it I would I would like a little refresher on too and maybe we can go through the plan quickly as well okay Bob Grasso why don't you give us an overvie I am Bob grassler representing Split Rock and the site is located at six marshmal Lane uh as you said before this is a refiling of a no intent that had expired the order conditions um the project basically has not changed the erosion control was installed under the um expired noi and it is still in place um there has been some regrading uh we've been doing exploring for we' have a lot uh encountered a lot of ledge on the on the site uh so we've been going back and forth with the architect trying to make the house fit with the Landscaping uh for price-wise and for functionality um we've adjusted the driveway just very minimum um we've raised the elevation of the U of the the dwelling about 2 or 3 ft um to encounter um for the ledge that we encountered when we scraped the um the loom off um we're still proposing a public water supply off of the common driveway there is a water shut off there we're posing a water service located in the in front right side of the dwelling um if you want to there are I remember the memb that when we did a s sidewalk I believe the Mary was the only one I remember was was at the S sidewalk I mean I see all new names um so if you want to do a site walk that's that's fine we can explain you know on site conditions well why don't you do you have a plan the site plan you could just share with us sure yeah sure think I have this can you see that we see men it hasn't loaded yet okay stop sharing okay how was that one can you see that at all or pull it no we can there it is how's that so the original driveway is hasn't changed uh the parking stalls haven't changed it's basically the the building size it was more of a rectangular um building that was proposed before um there it's more of a modern style artistic it's for um for artist to it's a very unique building let's put it that way um so we like I said the erosion control is still in place from the original noi uh We've we've done some grading here we scraped out this ledge up in here here um the sight's been um some of the Timber has been removed in this area um so I I believe spite walk will answer all your questions the septic system down here has been staked out that's just a little bit of clearing right there that needs to be done um and just the grading um we're just posing like a walk out basement in the back with some little landscape retaining walls right here um with a proposed grass Swale to catch any runoff uh going from the abing site down into and recharge the the groundwater and the Wetland it's located in that blue line right here those flags are still up from the from the old noi um so really there's no no really grade changing it's just been we've been exploring how much ledge has been out there okay Bob why don't I hold there and see if there's any questions from the M sure okay Mary do you vaguely remember this one as you were the only surviving I kind of remember it I think it was kind of it went right when I was first starting on the board um it looks like a lot of pavement for for two family you know a lot of parking spaces is that well because they're going to have some material coming in there there's a two Bay three Bay garage right here uhhuh with they they deal with like steel structures um like they artistic sculptures um it's more of an artistic building um is it a commercial building no no it's no no okay it's just a place for people to do you know what they do okay yeah just nine parking spaces it looks it looks more than typical requ that was that was what was proposed before and that was approved it it's a two family house as I recall yes yes it is yes it's not commercial so it's residential it's a two family dwelling got it I'm all I'm all set for now um okay I'll I'll Circle back to Mary uh Woody any any questions for for Bob on this one Bob you're basically saying it's a u with what Mary was saying with the proposed Drive being big it's a two family house with a a studio space for the homeowners to enjoy yes correct yes yes okay and um as far as a s sidewalk I I was unaware that every almost everyone on the board has seen this before so as far as a s sidewalk for me I guess it would be helpful uh even though I am familiar with the area I haven't been where this is so sidewalk club would be helpful I guess thank you okay yes thank you thank you witty uh Brad any any questions for for Bob or Ryan on this one no guys thank you uh but I I agree with W he uh the sidewalk would be helpful thank you okay uh Mick any any any questions or comments on this no no I'm on boots on the ground person so I'll hold my questions until I can uh you know get an eye on it and have a Salk thank you mck Diane how about yourself any any questions at this time nope okay I do not have any questions uh Sean are there any raised hands from the public at this time no okay and DP did not have any comments on this also there was no technical comments on the refiling on the refiling all right so it I'm going to be a little redone in here I already know the answer do any members have a request for a site visit additional information plan Amendment or adding any additional content to this notice and we we're going to schedule a site visit um and I think that makes good sense uh when do we want to schedule a site visit I'm going to be out of pocket all next week but I'm actually very familiar with this with the site and with the neighborhood but what was this when do we do do the site visit what would do what did we schedule for a site visit already tonight Sean 8:30 on the 12th it's is Tuesday is it something do we want to piggyback this with on that day as long as it's not raining can we do this at8 not enough time I think this is a bigger site okay and since it is cut out it is bare or baren um you you'll notice a lot of ledge outcroppings here gang then we could do it at nine I I guess I don't think Johnson Lane would take too long that's a septic yeah repair so does nine o'clock on the 12th work for the majority of the members yeah the 12 does doesn't work for me in the morning Y no it doesn't work for me either but I'll I can defer to everyone else looking at it okay work work for me Bob and I think it works for me Bob and I think we should probably piggyback it on the 12 that's my opinion all right so why don't we schedule a site visit for March 12th at 9 o'clock uh for six marshmallow Lane uh so the applicant would request would like to request a continuance to our March 19th meeting yes I'd like to request that please okay uh is there a motion uh to continue the public hearing at the applicant's request to our March 19th uh meeting so move second okay so Brad and Diane I'm doing that for po Sean who doesn't recognize all of our votes I'm trying to say sorry so who was second Diane yeah Brad was second okay made the motion Diane seconded the motion Sean okay uh roll roll call vote to continue the public hearing uh all in favor Mary yes Woody yes Brad hi Nick I Diane yes and Bob Connor is V yes all right team may I say one thing Bob yeah absolutely yeah um just yeah hi every all the new people um that let me know or uh that email or that time works for me to do a sidewalk just just for the record the only thing that has changed from this application to the first one that was approved that we submitted is the shape of the building there is nothing else that is different the intended use of the building is not different the parking lot is not different the driveway is not different the only thing that has changed is the shape of the building and as Bob mentioned the building has gone up because we've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to work and be as least impactful to the site as possible with the ledge that is there so I appreciate uh just understanding that and and Ryan can you talk about your conr construction schedule anticipated schedule uh last year okay um we are we were hoping that this was going to be settled we are also working waiting for some stuff from the engineers for the foundation which as you can imagine may be very difficult with this site um we are intending to start building literally as soon as possible because um that is when the Builder would like to start to get paid for all the work that we've done over the winter yeah okay great very good thanks all right thank you thank you Team all right so back to the administration section Sean any any other matters you want toh discuss um that that's it for now so we covered the sand and thank you thank you for your turn what what I'm going to suggest team is uh maybe not at our next meeting but on Administration I I I think it would be prudent on our part to develop a continuation a continue for continuing meetings a guidelines a lot of different towns have them I think we could do a little bit of research but I I think in fness to applicants of Butters into the time of commission and Consultants having a little more of a guidance document on when do we when does it Trigger re-advertising or Ren notifying the abutters sometimes do it as if you have four continuances that are not at the request for additional documentation the the applicant must then refile not refile but re-advertise and ren notify the ab buttery um so I think we just went through we've probably had what a dozen dozen times that this has been continued uh and I I think that it's a better better utilization of time but we're still trying to accommodate you know a community but um it does come a point in time that how many times is a a butter or you know party of concern going to prepare for a a hearing and then it's continue continue continue continue so just food for thought but I think it it may be may be helpful to have some sort of a a policy a guidance document guideline whatever you want to call it um Sean what I'd ask you to do is can you reach out to some of your counterparts uh and and see what they do on they have a policy on that sometimes it's just easy as seeing what other communities have done Mary how about yourself what what experience yeah I think there's some uh posted on some of the local switch might have one um yeah it shouldn't be hard to track down so okay you think it's a worthwhile Endeavor though to have yeah no I think it's a good idea if if a project is failing to proceed and you know it should be yeah it should be a certain number of continuances before it needs to be re advertised I think and re notified y definitely okay all right uh Mr duffen csos what's the gallonage do we have an update on gallonage uh it it is a record it is the most galled had been emitted into the river in history I don't have the exact figure um but it was interesting I read an article in the globe how the D and EPA are now starting to come down on some of the Northerly contributors to the to the CSO problem as well as U as some of the the souly ones too so a lot remains to be seen on on enforcement and how this whole thing continues to evolve thank you Mr all right all right team why don't we go around to the members Mary any final comments you'd like to offer no just um Sean feel free to reach out if you have questions or comments I'm In The Biz too so thank you yeah I think Sean you you see how we're relying Mary during our meetings here I know heard she has big shoulders she has big shoulders so yes she does Woody I was gonna ask how Mary voted on Marsh Meadows if we were gonna vote on that today how did she previously vote ah we didn't vote on it secret you'll have to do a foyer request for that kind of information Woody any any final thoughts comments uh productive meeting thank you Sean and um we'll uh see how things go for the S sidewalks and see how things go at our next no no I listen I I think we did a good job in addressing the open issues and we closed a public hearing I think everyone gets no the public hearing the public hearing right it's Monumental Monumental Brad any any any comments or final final words uh no I'm good thank you Mr sure okay mick how about you no Sean great to have you um I'm going to ask one favor of you if if you could just send out an email reminder for our site visits on the 12th yeah I was gonna I was gonna computer off I'll forget what date it was before we CL okay poan has been operating on his own I I've been on out of out of state for the last two weeks and uh he and I'll get together and we'll we'll we'll we we'll have it laid out just the way we should what we're used to so John's been doing a great job Diane any any final comments you want to offer no I like the Dropbox if you did that sha or whoever did it that had all of the files in like one folder for today I thought that was good because I like that you're welcome okay the only comment I have is there a motion to adjourn don't move second okay all those in favor Mary yes Woody Brad hi Bob Conor good night thank you everyone you bye good night good night SE