##VIDEO ID:t-kDiVeIsVA## hello everyone uh the dates December 18th 2024 um as a preliminary matter this is Woody Knight chair of the new planning board permit me to confirm that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me playing board members when I call your name please respond on the affir Peter posos yes sir Larry Murphy pres then Mary Stone has informed that she won't be with us tonight hope she's well uh Scott isn't I don't see Scott yet but he should be joining us soon and Steve Manan associate member yes indeed okay hi Steve thank you and town staff when I call your name please respond the affirmative uh Kristen grubs planning director Matha tayor special projects planner Matha won't be attending this evening we wish her well as well and Daniel Loro assistant planner and uh he's not in attendance tonight either we wish him well um anticipated speakers and presenters on the agenda and please respond in the affirmative if you're present uh TJ Melvin of Millennium engineering yep very good and then we have Steve soya from Millennium engineering I don't see Steve yet but he'll he should be joining us soon um and um Woody I think um Ben Perez is probably here for that agenda item okay yep I saw Ben I'm here as well all right thanks Ben um good evening the December 18th 2024 open meeting of the new planning board is being conducted remotely consistent with chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 which extends the governor's March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GL 30A 20 until March 31st 2025 for this meeting the new rep planning board is convening by video conference via as posted on the planning board's agenda which can be found on the town's website you can join us by going to http semicolon zoom. us and entering meeting ID 832 7141 3056 passcode 10879 or by calling 1 92925 5 6099 us and entering the meeting ID number and passcode when prompted please note that this meeting is being recorded and that attendees and participants by video and or telephone conference the meeting is also being broadcast live through local access Channel 9 on zoom and at www.tn cv. org and the recording will be available on the new access YouTube channel meating business ground rules before we turn on the first item on the agenda permit me to cover some ground rules for Effective and clear conduct of our business and to ensure accurate meeting minutes as chair I'll go I will introduce each speaker on the agenda after speakers conclude their remarks I will go down the list of board members inviting each by name to provide any comment questions or motions the meeting tonight does not include public does not include any public hearings however after board members have spoken I will afford the public an opportunity to comment and or ask questions I will seek questions and comments through the zoom raised hand function in the the order in which the people click on the raised hand fun hand finally each vote taken in this meeting will be conducted by roll call vote so there's a uh introduction out of the way and we'll go to the first item on the agenda um meeting minutes we have the December 4th 2024 meeting minutes has everyone uh had a chance to read the meeting minutes for December 4th meeting um I have I'm seeing nods and yes thank you Larry okay um does anyone have any um things they want to amend or any any uh corrections to the meeting minutes I have one thing Woody okay the U motion to adjourn was done by roll call vote it's not reflected in the minutes other than that it looks fine to me okay um will'll amend it to say that the meeting was adjourned by roll call vote um any other Corrections from anyone okay I will entertain a motion to approve the December 4th 2024 meeting minutes um I I'll so move I will second that okay Motion in second roll call vote um Peter yes Larry yes um Steve how do you feel good with it thank you and I vote Yes as well and I don't believe we have uh Scott or Mary so meeting minutes are approved for December 4th that moves us on to the November 2024 financial report report um planning board financial report November 2024 payroll and invoices authorized payroll wants for planning director special projects M planner and assisted planner a PR 25-9 for pay period ending 11224 B PR 25-10 for pay period ending 111624 see PR 25-11 for pay period ending 11302 24 and then srow accounts we have a jo jo Shaka construction inspections for three new report turnpike 11122 24 and then we have another one for Joe Shaka as built inspections for 68 Green Street 111 1224 and that concludes November's financial report next item on the agenda liaison and meeting reports um we'll start with uh Larry with the CBA do you have anything Larry uh yeah what then having their regular monthly meeting tomorrow night um there are two continued public hearings and two new public hearings uh on the agenda um one of the public hearings we would may see in one form that is variance for 11 and 15 Sunset Drive it's getting a lot of local attention from the neighborhood uh and if the variance is granted we'll see it as anr plan it'll have to come back to us um but that's about it okay um Conservation Commission would be me uh I'm getting some background noise uh Scott do you do you have a TV or something on no all right I'm just getting a little feedback I'm not sure where it's coming from so all right uh Conservation Commission we met last night um there was nothing on the agenda that pertained to us uh a generator um uh approval we're going to have a site walk at uh 337 street but nothing that pertained to us there was was mention of a 108 Main Street um they needed to do a 401c uh water quality report that had been overlooked D had pointed out but that's going to be a conservation matter um and that's all I have for conservation liaison uh report for mvpc Kristen um the mvpc meetings continue to be focused on the um housing affordable homes act and some information about um the Adu requirements as a part of that so um there's really there's no other news we'll be talking about the Adu bylaw um later in the agenda okay very good thank you Kristen um so that concludes um the aison reports so we'll move on to new business first item for new business is um TJ Melvin Millennium engineering uh regarding three New Port Turnpike Ono Bavaro family Real 2 LLC um so with TJ you pres uh we don't have TJ we have Ben tonight correct nope I'm here this is TJ Melvin from Millennium engineering oh great TJ could you give us an update on the project and Chang us to the residential and commercial unit count yeah and Des what's going on yeah um sorry I will just throw the plan up so if anyone has any questions um so originally when this project got approved through the planning board uh we were proposing 14 residential units and 3,000 square ft of retail space on the first floor um at this point we are looking to change it to 12 residential units um in the retail space to just over 4,700 square feet um of retail we're not proposing any changes to the look of the building um it was really just kind of the way the the interior walls broke up especially on the first floor for the retail um just trying to utilize a little bit more of that uh you know as rentable usable space um with that change uh it would require an additional three parking spaces from what was previously approved out here um so in talking with Town staff uh you know it's it seems there's language in the zoning bylaw that gives the planning board the ability to wave uh the number of required parking spaces um so I can zoom in on the parking tables just to see how that kind of breaks down um not sure if everyone can see it I know my pictures are all blocking it um so for the retail space I require a total of 15 parking spaces and for the 12 residential units would require 19 uh coming up to a total of 34 um again we're we haven't proposed any exterior site changes at this point uh so we do have the same 31 spaces we previously had uh so that's really what we'd be looking for the planning board to consider uh is granting that waiver to reduce the number of parking spaces and allow this um change between retail and residential uh the other minor thing that we have done it it's really just a labeling thing um but as part of the new building code we're required to provide EV ready parking spaces so really just the conduit and wirings run but no actual Chargers need to be installed um other than that the the plan is the same since the last time we were here um the really the reason for the request for the waiver is really just to try to maximize the green space on this site there there's not a ton as the you know it's a big lot but the shape is kind of funky and a lot of it is taken up by the Wetland um the only real logical spot to to add any parking would be in this area here we we could certainly add three spots but we'd have work you know just 26 feet off the Wetland it kind of really use up any of the uh the decent Green Space out here that you know the the neighbors or not the neighbors the residents could kind of utilize to to sit and just have some green space um so with that I'd be happy to answer your question the board may have okay thank you TJ um I guess I'll ask the board uh Peter do you have any questions for TJ yeah so TJ um just let me understand so increasing the commercial and currently the parking would be like 1.5 spaces per unit is that right as opposed to like 1.7 uh correct okay yeah so we're yes we're increasing the the commercial but also decreasing the residential gotcha gotcha uh and so you know my my take you know is like the commercial probably wouldn't be going there you know things wouldn't be happening at nighttime so if there was a concern with a diminished residential because you have commercial usage I would think there'd be available spaces for nighttime parking yeah absolutely you know there'd be a lot of the kind of reverse peak hours of parking demand I guess okay during the day would be primarily retail and after hours would be the residential Co so I think that that addresses any concerns I might have for reduction in residential parking spaces and having more green I I'm happy about that all I got thanks all right thanks Peter Larry do you have any questions for TJ just for clarification TJ so the commercial will all still be on the first floor correct yeah so initially we were you know the we were in the early stages of the the interior of the building so we just kind of split the building in half and and said you know half would be retail now that they actually have fully designed plans that they want to go forward with um it broke down to just over 4700 square feet they'd be looking to use as retail all on the first floor so if I mean if the footprints the same where are you finding the other 1700 feet I'm a little little confused yeah so I can actually pull up the U the architectural if we need to uh but so the the building itself is about uh what do we have it's about a 6,000 foot building so initially we had when we were permitting we said you know this half is going to be retail this would be some ancillary use associated with the residential whether it was a storage locker or a gym or really some some use that was only to available to the residents um but so when they've actually done the design you know there's a Lobby of mail area for the residents and then kind of broke up the remainder of the building as retail I I recall that conversation now um so will will there be any storage areas for the um residential units um check there may be a small one did this change on everyone's end yes Su justed okay um not not really much for storage um but as part of kind of the reduction in the residential units the the thought was making them a little bit bigger uh by reducing the two units uh so in theory they they got slightly larger than they would have been but no there's no no proposed dedicated storage so this schematic you have up here is the new plan rather than the old one correct okay because it still shows tenant fit out Zone whatever that is yeah so these would be the available retail uh spaces oh oh commercial ten yeah yes I I honestly thought the same thing the first time I looked at it okay A little deceiving all right I guess that's all I have thank you okay thank you Larry um Scott do you have any questions Scott may still be muted he's muted is that better yep I can hear you now Scott y yeah if you can if you can put the plan back up and um and just maybe um look at um the area of the um you know um maybe where you potentially could park but you wanted to keep Green Space right up in this area yeah yep um I I I guess I'm um I'm okay with the concept but you know if in fact at the end of the day that you you determine that um you have more residents um that need need more parking maybe at two three four spaces um you know it would be great to see this um even though you might plant it um green space but you might consider it to be future parking um yeah so we we've run the calculations and we we actually have a you know just a concept plan showing some parking spacing here uh the only thing with that is you know if we were to install it we'd have to come back to the planning board and Conservation Commission to install it uh but there there's definitely room to to put it here and I've run the calculations for a storm water and it could definitely handle the extra impervious area um so I I could label it as potential future but in any event we'd have to come back TW before the planning board in conservation if we wanted to move forward with it yeah I'm I'm only um saying this because the worst thing that could happen to you guys would be you know you you fill everything and then you determine you know you're getting complaints there not enough parking and then you you just have no um um you really don't have an option right um so um yeah I've seen it in the past um where you know you've identified areas of future parking um in case you determine at the end of the day that um the parking isn't sufficient um that might be the way to go here okay yeah so if I were to just kind of show like some Dash lines and just call it out as potential future parking is that kind of what you're looking to see something in that area I mean I think that might work but i' I'd defer to the rest of the board well it it might um and going out on a limb here I guess but it it might avoid the necessity of coming back to the planning board at least if you want to uh expand your parking you still may have to go to conom I'm not sure about planning though I'm kind of going out in a limb with that but well I think it might it it might be just that that you'd have to go to concom but wouldn't have to come back to us okay yeah I can certainly U you know draw that up and just kind of hatch it out and call it out as potential future parking and and I do think that's a benefit to you guys um because if it um you don't want um unhappy residents yeah completely understood hey would if I could through through you to Scott Scott would gravel work there um well you might want to grab a base hit um and then you know go over that with Organic and and and um and Seed yeah and then all you need to do is is really um you know pull back the Organics and and get to the gravel and and then and then PVE it it's proba TJ is that that area is probably going to be gravel as it is now right as a base um we weren't planning on doing gravel at this point but a lot of the fill that was brought in there is pretty structural it's not uh it's not like real soft and silty material by any means um I guess we we we could possibly put in a base um I guess one way or the other we'd still be doing land disturbing activities but we could uh I could talk with the the applicant the contractor to discuss that okay um Woody I just had a quick question um is there anywhere that's been talked about for bike rcks TJ um I don't recall seeing it on the plan I was just thinking about that change with the you know removing a little bit of the storage space on the first floor um and I know the units have gotten bigger but this is I mean this is a a prime location for people to not have to rely on cars yeah um being so close to the train and close to the bike trail into town and you're on a you know they're on the mea bus route now it's there's a lot of um alternatives to automobile travel but I was just thinking about bikes maybe could make a little like roof covering for bike racks that you know kept things out of the rain a little bit somewhere yeah I will uh I'll have to check with the contractor to see you know how feasible putting you know just an overhang would be um but that's definitely something we can look at thanks else two the things popped into my squash TJ we talked last time that you were with us about um can you kind of give a biger picture here for a sec oh yeah sorry just work it's okay about how you know uh Mass doot changed the travel Lanes remember how they've now dedicated the right lane and you're coming down and it's only a right turn how the traffic mitigation and we were a little concerned with how that change occurs right where your exit is from your from the site and you were going to check with DOT to see if there were any concerns with your your traffic entry at that point yeah so we we had kind of talked with them way back when we were permitting this only because you know obviously everyone knew they were doing something there it obviously wasn't being constructed at that point um but they haven't raised any issues as far as you know we've had to extend the permit a couple times now um you know it's it's definitely something they've seen uh so I don't see it as being a major concern as you know that that plan was kind of already in place when this did get originally approved by mass doot yeah I just know the lane the lane configuration change hadn't been in place and hey by the way are these going to be a condos or are these gonna be Apartments I don't know that they've fully decided that at this point um I I don't think they have an answer to that yet okay cool all right thank you Pete um Steve do you have any questions for TJ no I do not okay thank you Steve any other questions from anyone this time hearing none um what are the wishes of the board i' entertain a motion to allow the reduction of the required number of spaces from 34 to 31 so moved do I have a second I'll second it okay thank you Larry um so we have a motion and second made to reduce the number of pocket spaces from 34 to 31 uh roll call vote Peter yes Larry yes uh Scott yes and Steve how do you feel I'm good very good and uh as chair I vote Yes well so thank you TJ and um good luck with your project great thank you yep have a good holiday you too all right that concludes that item on new business the next item on new business we have Steve Sawyer from Millennium engineering hi Steve how are you I see you now yeah I made it in good how you doing good how are you good um would you give us an update on the history of uh this project this is for U Flor bushy lane and go right ahead yeah all right yeah so I'm here with Ben Perez from Boston north um uh he could answer any questions regarding the as far as the client's wishes uh to move forward but yeah so I think way back way back went in a different lifetime I permited this project with Oak Engineers back in probably the mid 2000s 2006 to 2007 um for a gentleman by the name of uh he had bought the entire property uh along there at Newman Road uh back then he had done an anr I think he parceled off some a piece to go to green belt for the important piece along the lower green and then we did I think three or four anrs up on Newman along with the subdivision that was D it was named Florence bushy lane uh with two lots in the rear uh to the rear of the rear of the property um at that time I think it was 2008 the road was um um Mr Harman had the road constructed and marketed the entire you know and marketed the entire parcel uh and in I think in 2008 uh the kurk garish purchased at least that the land that encompass Florence Florence bushy way and the and the there were three anrs I believe uh on Newman Road and he bought all of the property and built he basically built a single family home on two of the anrs up on Newman Road and he just preferred to have the area in the rear open so he actually had the roadway removed at that time um the paper Street never was never removed the and and the Lots in the back have been um on the assessors basically on the assessor map and the assesses records and been buildable Lots since that time and I believe they have been assessed it somewhere in the neighborhood of $800,000 with tap property taxes paid on those lots um and so they've kind of the the roadway and lots have been in place since 2008 on paper with the roadway removed um Mr garish has I think I believe he's passed and I think the the the the wish of uh some of the family members who still they live on the other Lots there is to rebuild the roadway to provide access to those two lots so I think the intent is um Ben is looking to rebuild the road um to the originally approved plan uh which is uh it's a private private road with country drainage fairly simple uh just re rebuild the road per the approved plan and then eventually build on those rear two lots on Florence bushy Road um at the at the rear of that property so I think I think it was I think Kristen had reached out to Town Council to find out if there's any additional permitting needs and it was confirmed that no it's a road that's in place there's approv plan in place that they can just rebuild the road put it back in per the design plan that was approved back in 2008 and the intent here is I I I believe the intent the the the process tonight is just to confirm the shy um the shy amount in process uh for rebuilding the road um so that's a five minute synopsis is how we ended up here in 2024 going on 2025 okay I have a quick question uh the gar should still retain ownership of those two lots yes uh yes they do I I I don't know the entity it's I think it's in a trust um but I believe that they own they own the all of the land surrounding those two lots and also the original Barn that was renovated up on Newman Road Y which is on a lot of its own yeah that's a lot of its own I believe it's a that one had Frontage on Newman um and there was a septic system installed and so that how that actually the barn was renovated um and they own it I believe it was most at that for the for the past I guess since 2008 2009 it was for staff um of of Mr garish all right thank you um I'll turn to the board um Pete do you have any questions for Steve yes Steve do you have a visual just for just so uh yeah so let's see I'm going to go be going from one screen hopefully I can let's see let's go to the L pushy share why is this not sharing okay I haven't usually I'm going for two screens I'm just going from one screen tonight says share share fluence on [Music] record you have do you have to make him think it says I can share okay and it's just about it's it's funny it's asking me all these questions let's see let me try something I'll just click on anything now let's go to Google workspace I don't want to do that stop that let's go back to Google go back to Adobe go back to here we go close assistant so some reason okay share okay hold on a sec let me go back to the apologies usually I have two screens rolling the worse yeah not sharing AI assistant find text H give it a try yeah yeah if you I sent you by the email link for some reason if you can bring it up bring it up I'm just it's weird I've never seen this in my I just loaded I reloaded uh zoom on my computer what would you like to show I would say go to the C2 I guess C2 would be the best one this the plan you want to show yeah there we go yep so actually if you stop there so you can see the definitive subdivision um Florence bushy way so if you look in the top left that's the old barn that was renovated uh renovated is part of the project so that is been renovated and uh it was occupied I don't believe I don't know if it's occupied now but it's uh that could be transferred I think if they wanted to that could be transferred without the road being built because it has the frontage up on Newman Road septic systems installed um and such so and then uh Mr gish's House was built on if you can see to the right there's two lots there was the old the old homes were demolished and then this a large home occupying um occupying those two anr lots up on Newman road so that would remain intact the house would remain intact with the lot lines in place and then you can see there's two lots down um down lower lot two and lot three uh was it number two number um number three and number four Florence bushy way um that's what we're looking to rebuild the road to build those two homes um and then if you can just scroll down you can you'll end up going to I think the grading and drainage plan yeah as you can see uh it's a simple Road uh country drainage with a sale running down the left side of the road there was a sump so you can see there was a little bit of a sump on the left that was was piped to a uh storm waterer treatment area in the center and then piped over diagonally to the little right where there was a additional storm waterer treatment area before it would flow off uh off property so uh that was all basically that entire system the roadway everything was installed and then it was removed um back in 2009 or I forget I think there were some pictures it might have been removed uh a couple years after during the construction of the home up a Newman road so the intent is to rebuild the road per the plan um to build uh two homes down at the bottom at you know at the lower end of the property uh with Frontage on Florence bushy right Florence Florence bushy way I think the intent of the the intent of the original plan was a private way it is no intent to change it as a private way um uh for for the for those purposes so that's that's uh the the plans back from Oak engineers in 2008 so we're in a Time machine tonight okay Pete U I don't know if you ever actually asked a question do you have questions yes I I actually do U hey Steve since this was done back in 2008 are the turnarounds appropriate for Kiren fire apparatus for that for that turnaround at the end yeah so actually yeah it's more than more than adequate as you can see it's a it's a very large turnaround uh at the bottom of the hill so it's built per the I think I don't believe the roadway diameter change standards changed the RightWay changed from 50 to 53 so that's really I think that was the only change in the subdivision regulation so we met the you know at that time we met the exterior pavement right away and that has not changed but the uh instead of 50 we have a 50 foot RightWay versus a 53t RightWay which where it's just really it's um you know you have as you can see the RightWay lines are well beyond the width of the roadway and the sale to the left side as you come down the hill thanks yeah Larry do you have any questions for Steve yeah so Steve U Lots one two and three do they they remain the same or have the lot lines changed none of the lot yeah none of the lot lines have changed there's no lot lines have changed um there so what happens on uh yeah one two and three so uh yeah lot one that is uh Remains the Same the the building um and that building actually the septic system was installed and approved and the building was the the building Renovations were made to converted from a barn to living space so that has not changed and then lot two and three has not changed the the only thing that has changed is that the house on as um as you can see actually that's a good picture uh Christ if you scroll down a little further so the the main house encompasses the two lots that the the there's two lots on Newman road that the the large house up you know the large main house encompasses so those two lots um on Newman which Ray and ours there's one house on those two lots which I guess won't that won't change so if you zoom down I guess so the you can see to the the barn actually I'm sorry Zoom back if you can scroll up a bit so you can see the barn is just up you know the you can kind of see the the roadway um came down between the barn and the house there if you scroll I'm sorry Kristen if you scroll back up you might see the old rway construction if you if you go back up a little here we go so here you can see the foundation being constructed for the new house the barn in place up on the left and then the culdesac that came down and um the the original culde was constructed with the the uh in the center was some the stor water management area and such so once the house was finished this the entire roadway was uh removed and cre and removed and um reverted to Green Space so as you can see on the lower right is lot three and I think in the lower left is lot two so it's three and four so the the additional homes will be down at the very bottom bottom of the page bottom of that photo just Newman have a Florence bushy lane address do you know you that might actually go if we go back to the if you go back to the definitive plans if you slip back to that we can go back to the sheet probably sheet two of the definitive it would have the address so lot one yeah it said number two Florence bushy lane but I just wasn't sure I don't think pulled the lane out where they the lane well no well I see it's got 128 feet of Frontage so it has appr you know it's 125 ft is the required Frontage so it has required Frontage on Newman so oh no there yeah it says it's number to fluen Bushy way um but it has the needed Frontage on Newman to stand alone without the Improvement um so I guess it was that's so I guess as far as the accessors it must be um still numbered off the paper Street Florence bushy way it is Newman Road Steve that is oh it is oh address so it does have I'm sorry yep yeah I think it's uh 21 21 okay thanks Ben [Music] yeah Larry you were gonna yeah so Steve if you were submitting this today as a new subdivision plan you'd need a waiver of the right of way width from 53 to 50 feet is that correct that would be correct y any other waivers that would be it I believe uh well actually I got to look I you know I waiver request actually let's go to the right pan to the right we can see the waiver request probably curbing you know where it was just two homes and such probably so the so we have our waiver request here sidewalks bo bo boom so the we the only addition what would happen is it'd be an additional waiver required for right away width for 53 feet from the original these are the same waivers that were granted in 2008 yeah yeah okay this is a first for me um yeah it's first for a lot of us uh so Kristen uh the Building Commissioner and and Town Council have reviewed this and they're comfortable with it proceeding this way um so they haven't reviewed these materials the letter and you know the formal request with the new um uh I think it was just the existing conditions plan I don't you don't I guess that's a question I had do you intend to record a new plan no I don't there's no I don't think there's any need to where there's an there's a subdivision plan on record um and we're planning to construct it per you know per that plan so there's really no need to re-record a plan um you know one one one thing that would be required is once the road was completed we'd file the asilt of the roadway and such um of the the as buil I think that may be a new requirement where um the the town does require more detailed asilt plans more so than back in 2008 so that would be the only the only thing we do is upon completion of the road we file a detailed asbill plan of record so I think to answer your question Larry um uh this was a complicated uh you know I don't think anyone had ever seen it before as was just said but I I think it's you know I think it may be worth just in particular the part of the request that we haven't looked at yet is um setting the bond for construction um and that I think the board has generally had peer review engineering to review that so if we you know if we take one more step to have the Building Commissioner review everything make sure the financial bit of the bond request is um you know make sense to the peer review and engineer and then um you know make sure we're looking at any other changes like Steve just mentioned you know ultimately the asilt but I think there's some language around uh construction oversight um so we'd probably need to set up a esro account for um peer review you know as the construction moves forward but um and this is consistent with what town C recommended was the correct approach yeah I mean that was my next question uh was about peerreview if Joe Sak has seen this I assume he's not not yet okay uh Larry do you have any other questions other no no okay so we'll have to send this off to peer review and you know I'll move on to Scott if Scott's got any questions for you Steve okay Scott I might be muted can't see I don't know why it's muting but uh I have no questions thanks okay all right thank you Scott and uh Steve do you have any questions on the matter no questions okay and I don't have any other questions either so Kristen like we we you just stated we're going to have to set up an escro count and uh have Joe Shaka do a pair review of the plans correct well I think actually the plans have already been reviewed and approved it's just basically a review of the escco of of the bond amount of I think it's around $450,000 um which is Def which I feel is definitely I I think Joe would agree that subst is um prudent for the for the type of Road and construction but as far as reviewing the plans you know they they were peer viwed I Believe by Meridian back in the day Meridian or um yeah down in Danvers so the the plans were when they approved were all peer reviewed and sto mots peer-reviewed back in the day so I believe it's a matter of just approving the bond amount yeah 16y old plan though engineering hasn't changed in 16 years though so yeah what pricing has what's that the cost storm Wier hasn't not changed in 16 years actually well just it may change in the it may change in the next year but okay we'll have Joe take a look at it correct Chris yeah all right is there is there any way that we could probably as far as I know Ben's looking there you know I know the family's excited to get moving on this but to at least try and kick this to two weeks out or is it two or three weeks out um to the next meeting our next meeting is have to look at the calendar January 8th January 8 yeah it's three weeks is that something do you think Joe will have time to review that and uh we'll try and get this on the agenda for January 8th CHR question yeah I think that's reasonable um I I would um yeah I have a few more questions just about if this is you know originally this was a three lot subdivision with all of you know each of the Lots having an address on Florence bushy lane and um presumably there's some kind of home ownership agreement around the fact that this is private Lane and maintenance so it might just be worth us clarifying you know all of the steps that will need to be um completed in addition to the construction um and also I I think it would be helpful it wasn't clear to me who the current owner is so if that could be if there could be a letter from the current owner just clarifying and authorizing you know Boston North development be helpful absolutely we can we could clarify that yeah I think that's fine to to put it to January okay great one last question Steve was there a homeowners um Association set up the three three lot steep that's good question um back it's funny back in 2008 I don't know I guess I'll have to unfortunately I I'm trying to access some of the old files back from then I I'm digging up what I can um I will see what I can find if not if there isn't one I think probably is prior to any certificate of occupancy is there probably should be a homeowners agreement that the board would want to author or some sort of homeowners agree homeowner agreement prior to any uh CFO issued for those two lots that would be which if if there isn't one yeah it may be problematic I'm not trying to find problems for you Steve but I don't know if that would mean reopening the U subdivision decision or what it's like I said this is kind of new to me yeah that's something we we you know we could look to the direction of Town Council on that of what you know if it's just an administrative item I would think it's an administrative item to add you know a lot of times when you get your subdivision approval it's it the homeowners Agreements are all kind of cooked into the books you know as the roadway is being built and such as far as any there's some initial ones that are reviewed but as far as final agreements it's usually subject to Town Council review um it's more of a legal document than a public document um as far as that so you know we defer to um Town council's review of it or town council's interpretation and also if there is you know if we if there isn't one on file that we'd create one that would be to the agreement of of your Town Council hey Woody yes just yeah just listened to this conversation I know that uh the applicants hopeful to have this wrapped up in two to three weeks but I think that this might actually be more than a two to three week episode especially considering there's a couple holidays in in the midst of this Steve yeah you know so I'm not sure what schedules are so I'm just going to throw that out there just to say if it doesn't happen in two to three weeks it wouldn't surprise me too much okay well I I just asked that you know I know I do understand we have Christmas and New Year's in between that's where sure um but at least just you know we'd like to just be continued the next one and let's let's do what we can to to further it along and and we would understand if you know given the holiday situation if if it does bleed on yeah we'll do our best this isn't actually a hearing so it's yeah we can do our best and see where we are a week before the meeting absolutely thank you Kristen okay very good if uh no one has anything else I don't hear anything else so thank you Steve and thank you Ben and uh thank you guys do our best thank you holidays thank you everyone have a great Christmas thank you okay that concludes new business we'll go on now with the agenda um zoning amendments discussion so the first one on the list is accessory in unit by law CHR you all right ready yes okay um so accessory dwelling so the agenda items are to just go through all the zoning amendments that we think are coming towards annual town meeting April um we started this work at the last meeting um but just to um continue um the accessory dwelling unit since the last meeting the um State released did release the regulations that have been talked about for a few months since the legislation was passed um in August and held a couple webinars I don't know if any of the board were was able to attend those but um Daniel and I and Martha all did and it it was very helpful um I'm not actually sure I will check if those are recorded and available for viewing they were only an hour long and it was really a very um clear concise summary of what the towns are required to do um related to the affordable homes act legislation so um so I thought it' take just a couple minutes to go through what I perceive or what I heard as being sort of the biggest points and then if the board is interested we can pull up the draft of the bylaw and just kind of if there are any questions particular to the language of the bylaw um does that sound good Woody yes yes SS okay so this the regulations are laying out um you know in particular a lot of definitions and terminology and one of important terms the state is using is a protected use Adu and that is essentially um uh a way to name the fact that this is a now Allowed by right use if the accessory dwelling units meet all of the regulations uh dimensional requirements and other requirements of their definitions so just I just wanted to kind of name that protected use Adu in it's allowed by right with these parameters distinct from an Adu that may be allowed with different kinds of parameters through a special permit process um so we're still kind of tossing around whether we want to actually use that term protected Adu protected use Adu in the b or not um but you might hear it heard uh talked about um one of the main themes is that this legislation um lays out that an accessory dwelling unit cannot be really treated any differently than a single family dwelling so there it can't be subject to site plan review it can't be subject to um unreasonable uh design standards with perceived to be unreasonable um essentially related to something like design standards that council is if you don't require certain things for the development for the building of a single family home then you really shouldn't and can't require them for the building of an accessory dilling unit um in addition anything that building a home does require like a curb cut for a driveway or um uh you know Wetlands you know review of wetlands impact um setbacks all of those things the same that would be required by a single family house can be and should be required by the accessory dwoing unit um the regulations Define gross floor area which is a pretty important one um it excludes covered walkways and porches in the square footage count of gross floor area um you may restrict the use and occupancy of an accessory dwelling unit for short-term rentals so they particularly call that out that is something a town can do is um prohibit accessory dwelling units for being used has a short-term rental do they Define short-term rental um they do they reference that an mgl that has a definition for it um which I can look up I'm not sure I have that right in front of me but that's okay yeah um you can't however require sorry one quick thing just about the use and occupancy is you can't require um like you can't have these be over 55 there's no restrictions related to age or affordability um and you also cannot require owner occupancy I'll pause questions pleas you have a question go ahead I just going to note that the uh restrictions and the regulations are pretty tough terms of what what is a uh short-term rental maybe it's not tough but it's uh there's a lot of words in there to D digest and I suggest we all take a look at it yeah I can um I can try to pull that up while we're while we're talking um yeah I've got it in front of me and I read it several times and I'm scratching my head okay do you want to share your screen and we can look at it quickly I'm not sure up to that technology okay all right well let's let's hold that just hold on to that question um because it's a good one they have uh the regulations have um language around parking requirements um in particular uh you can't require parking if the Adu is is um5 miles from a Commuter Rail station um and they also talk about Transit stations in a general way including bus stations and it it's definitely noticeable and there's a lot of discussion about the fact that um a bus station is defined as anywhere along a route where you can flag the bus just and the way me the bus routes operate in the newbry port area right now um is that way so basically anywhere the bus goes through neighborhoods in Newport is characterized as within 0.5 miles of a transit station um and then um we talked a little about dimensional setbacks it can't be more restrictive than a single family um and utilities you have to meet all building and fire code um utilities you you know they want to encourage um Energy Efficiency in terms of like a mini splitter counting for gross um floor area would not count in the same way that you know a walkway or a porch would not count um and you there's language around um you may or may not have utilities better look at this one um utilities serving the a Adu may be extensions of the existing utilities serving the principal dwelling but it's they're not required to be if it's a detached unit or an attached Kristen could I stop you right there for one sec um Scott you keep no no offense but you keep lighting up green if you don't mind muting yourself for a minute we getting some back feed that way can Kristen you can continue I just yeah I'm sort of heing myself EO Scott kept lighting up green so if he just for some reason we're getting feedback so I apologize Scott all right go ahead Kristen okay so that's that's sort of my overview summary um and I can um screen share the current draft of the bylaw so we've gone through uh this sort of working group in is includes myself and Daniel and Martha and Town Council um and Peter bannett um building inspectors have been having a lot of uh you know Regional um professional uh trainings about the spa and um marac Valley Planning Commission staff um Ian and Tyler who are working on their housing um support so a lot of people have been reviewing the language but it's definitely still in draft because um essentially what we started with was the accessory apartment bylaw which the town already had um but have found that there you know there are a significant number of changes so really um the primary thing we've carried over from the bylaw that the town had was the purposes so you know kudos to this town for having you know set up that bylaw many years ago and recognizing the need for this type of um smaller you know dwelling unit they're really consistent with where we are now in terms of what the state is asking towns to do but the mechanisms for encouraging these to be built are quite different so what we'll be proposing for town meeting is to replace the entire bylaw we currently have with a new draft so let me try to share it I can find it can you see that yep big enough yes so um so it's three pages if that makes sense I'll just kind of start going the purpose and intent so this is uh chapter 97 section 10 of the Town zoning bylaw section D is accessory it it was called accessory apartment um now that will be called accessory dwelling units so the purpose and the intent are quite consistent um the definition section this is you know this is required to this is how the town um I'm sorry the state uh defines the protected use accessory dwelling unit so um detached or attached inclusiv inclusive of sleeping cooking and sanitary facilities on the same lot as a principal dwelling um is not larger in Gross floor area than half the gross floor area of the principal dwelling or 900 square feet whichever is smaller the current Newberry bylaw um uses a th000 square feet and then this little number three um we are checking with Town Council about how to make sure this is clear but essentially it is referencing that you can't um your Adu must require the same dimensional um restrictions as a single family home so it can't be closer on a s set back or front set back those kinds of things oh chrisan if May uh regarding the gross floor area I know that later on in the document there's some mention of the piod and this is somewhat related to that because certainly there are many Lots on Plum Island that if one were to build say sought to build a 900 square foot accessory dwelling unit that would get you beyond the piod restrictions on lot coverage and floor area ratio and so it's not allowed excuse me that you're I think I'll let you finish but that so you would not be able to build an Adu if you do not if you are unable to meet the restrictions that the Plum Island overly District already include right and I realize that comes up later in the documents I say whether some language would be appropriate in this II Section is something I think we may want to discuss at a later [Music] time oops I'm flagging it yeah okay and if I can take one other thing down to the other definition bus station it's my understanding we don't have any bus routes in Newbury um we don't but we have areas that are within 0.5 miles of bus areas of bus routes yep okay good point um so again the idea right now is to put definitions that are pertinent to this particular bylaw in this section so they're easily accessible that's sort of a planning question is whether by it's good to have definitions in the definition section of the bylaw or in the section of the bylaw where they're talking about it so we're there's still some discussion of that but at the moment the recommendation is to include them right here where people want to understand what this means um so applicability this is essentially this byright protected accessory dwelling unit so the process would be approval review and approval by The Building Commissioner so it would not if you meet these standards it would not be going to the zba which is currently part of um our current practice for detached accessory dwelling units being permitted through the zba so this is process administrated of review and approval by the buildin commissioner except in the case where there differences that require special permit then the zoning board of appeals would continue to be the special permit granting Authority and they are now as well Kristen another question I appreciate that I can see where the Building Commissioner makes the decision but I'm wondering what if um the butters wanted to appeal the building commissioner's decision that seems to be uh in my mind it could be a whole in this proposal and that I can imagine that um abutters may know that it's really a five-bedroom house that exists and whatever was going to build be built would be larger than the existing septic system could uh handle but the Building Commissioner may not know that just looking at the Town records seeing that in terms of town records it's a three-bedroom house and this the title five systems perfectly okay but the abutters would know otherwise do they need to have a mechanism where they can appeal the decision yeah I think that's intended to be covered here Steve and it's you know again we're we're still getting reviews from Town Council but um I believe ail well and this says denial so I'm not sure if it would follow the same practice now where you can appeal to the land Court um or to the zba so I'll we'll confirm that right with Town Council I mean going to the zba is relatively straightforward to go to land court is a whole another level of uh time and expense and that sort of thing yeah so assuming that the state allows us to do it I think it would be good for the ABS to be able to appeal of proposal to the zpa yeah okay I mean I I I think we should probably talk some am I uh the feedback no you're all right start okay um I mean we should probably have some more discussion on that because um I mean if um if somebody wanted to appeal an approval you know um respective really of the uh building Commissioners uh issuance of a billing permit they would still have right steeve um you know through the court um you're right it'd be be more expensive um you know there'd be hiring him an attorney but there would still be a um a path way um to be heard so um I think we should probably table that one and have some more discussion certainly I agree um okay so General requirements many of these are things I sort of mentioned in the overview view but um I'll just quickly go through them there shall be no more than one Adu on a lot and there shall be no more than two dwelling units in the primary dwelling so um you can imagine if your brain is swirling on this that there could be the case where someone would have enough land area to have more than one Adu at at 900 square feet um so the way we're currently thinking about that is it will be something to consider putting in the category of requires a special permit um but for now the general requirement is no more than one on a lot so if there's already an Adu even if it's not you know it's pre-existing permitted or not permitted um you can have another one currently the way this is written and then there questions around if you have a two family on a lot can you have two adus they each get one um or they have to Duke it out who gets to put the ad you know their questions around that so again at the moment we're sticking with the things we know that um are straightforward aligned with the regulations um and flagging some of these questions to be discussed at a future date and I I just as a general comment um that's sort of a process question is this is coming upon the town so fast um it's you know they just released the regulations we're hitting our deadlines for Springtown meeting it goes into effect the legislation Fe 2 so kind of putting some things that require or we think Merit further discussion with the zoning board with the public um with our you know advisors like staff at mvpc into a category of we could work on that over the summer and prepare additional modifications to this bylaw for a year from now um for things that require a special that seems to make sense because we don't want to rush into decisions that don't have enough input um from all the you know from the public in particular and from the other boards hey hey Kristen quick question did I read something maybe in the previous draft of or of something else that you could have more than one Adu and you could have an Adu in a structure and an ex external structure did I read that or did I yeah it's not prohibited by anything um but again that would be special permit current thinking is that might be a situation where the town would be most comfortable in having that go through a special permit process that has more review of the impacts and the kinds of questions related to you know Public public benefit I guess but it's allowed in the law it's not prohibited but it's not required not required okay because I just read it and I was surprised that it was in there and so I didn't know how you were going to like limit it if it was there right you can use the special permit process um on certain things and that my understanding more than one IDE and a lot is one of those gotta thanks yeah so Kristen um if I gave you a scenario that um basically had someone let's say had an acre um had a um um a dwelling on the acre that um had retail in the first floor um or some type of other use in residential and then had two residential units um on the second floor um one of which the owner lived in um and the other um they rented um could that um owner convert the retail um and for a good reason because the retail just wasn't leasing or renting could convert the retail into um housing um and then add an Adu uh Standalone um you know at someplace in his land uh that actually um um you know um were within you know had all the just just all the setback requirements every I mean it's the satisfied everything uh with respect to um you know the single family regulations I don't know we'd have to look at it I um I the premise of this is where your community allows single family zoning allows single family dwellings by right adus are allowed by right I don't know uh for instance you know if you have multif family overlay District right and it gets developed as a multif family does the Adu still come with that I think that's sort of the question you were the scenario you were describing or if it's a mixed use um I mean it's um well it was it was the accessory unit has to be Sub sub you know secondary to a principal dwelling and there's definitions of what accessory means and what this the principal dwelling means so I'm not sure how it would work if you had a a multi-unit structure and if I may some of these some of these scenarios too uh limited because of Title Five correct absolutely you still have to meet Title Five yeah I I guess I mean there would be I mean that's that's a that's a that's a big one woody but um I do think that uh there's a number of scenarios out there that um that potentially I mean this this um this we wouldn't see covered and we may see come before us in the future so I'm not saying that um we need to have a crystal ball and we need to You Know cover everything but I I I do think um it's um it's challenging to say the least it is I agree with that interesting but challenging and again it's sort of um we could try to play out a lot of different scenarios we know some of them we may not you know come up with all of them and kind of do our best in this quick time frame to to get them in here um that feels rushed I think to those of us who've been working on it and you know it's it's our timing of town meeting that is is rushing that and the fact that uh the legislature chose February 2 for this to go into effect um so I think what we feel like we're working towards for April is uh the best we can do in this time frame knowing that really you know right away we need to be working through some of those other scenarios and um in particular I do think it'll be a special permit process that will um that many of those scenarios may fall into so just kind of uh it may be a year where not everything's covered but I you know there's tradeoffs I guess um yeah yeah some scenarios trigger a special for it so right so this is um this is where we have mentioned the Plum Island overlay District I I will mention that Town Council has reached out to the Attorney General's office to review the um requirements that were laid out by the DP consent order that establish the parameters of the Plum Island overlay district and they have uh received you know Town Council has received guidance that those restrictions can should not interfere with you know those must still be in place they will not uh be diminished by this particular bylaw um so again you know Steve you said it well but if you don't have if you're on a tiny lot and you don't have enough room then you can't do it or if you already have three bedrooms and you only can have three bedrooms then you can't have an Adu those will all um be retained is the advice that Town Council has received good the clarity is important and that's good I think I think so too because I mean the consent order was not to overburden Barrier Island so you know it would be the state kind of conflicting with itself if there wasn't a way to work work that through um okay meet all you know Health Building Safety Code all fire code there was some detail in the the bylaw the town has now around um you know Sprinklers and making and this is just a general catchall all of those still need to be met with an 8 um utilities new and separate water or sewer lines um are not required applicants may choose to use a shared water meter for the primary structure and Adu or have a separate water meter installed um this is number f is uh letter F is about the parking so no more than one one shall be required so you may not require more than one for an Adu um and indeed .5 miles from the commun rail station you may not require a parking space they can have a parking space but you can't require it and that's the um that's that's a that's the state right yeah yeah and I will say I hope one day we have more bus routes so we're we are specifically including this language as well in the thought that if we do get more bus routes um at someday then we've already got it in the bylaw short-term rentals we talked about um special permits we talked about so uh you know to expand on what I said previously the current this current draft I'm getting an echo again yeah no what's going on is what's going on is when you're talking I think it's echoing in Scott's room and going back to his microphone um So currently detached accessory draing units are allowed up to a th000 ft so this language is being proposed because um of that to try to be consistent with what the town has thought was reasonable previously um however because the state's requirement is 900 square feet This falls into a special permit category so there would be a process whereby the zoning board could review and approve prove an Adu um up to 15% above the 900 square feet of gross floor area which is if you are quick at math you will already know but I had to use the calculator 135 square feet so it's essentially consistent with the a thousand square feet that we have um so again this is intending to to capture some of the special permit criteria that is currently being used to review Christen if I may um I did send you uh the definition of us short-term rentals so you can share that with the rest of the uh board later um okay and the other thing I'm looking for but I can't find it but I remember somewhere around here I thought there was something that led me to think well there's something in the state law about mobile units IE you know trailers and it sounded like the state was entertaining mobile dwellings being brought to a property and I vaguely recall for many many years ago that the town of Newbury was not allowing mobile units to become homes on empty lots so that ring a bell with anyone yes I think that's right yeah go ahead no you go yeah no I I don't believe mobile homes mobile movable homes are permitted in town I'll see if I can that's my understanding too and I don't think this requires that we allow them to be permitted as an Adu a town could and they give definitions to clarify sure again I thought I saw a uh an opening for that to be an outcome but I can't I'll send you an email when I find it again my notes are somewhat uh difficult even for me to read I would say it's it's certainly being talked about in housing circles planning housing circles because um you know like container unit homes you may have seen in the news but those would be very light on the land and are being designed in incredibly creative ways that you know allow a very reasonable dwelling unit for you know small Studio kind of living um but again that's not you know no one's proposing that Newberry change the rules it currently has related to things like mobile homes and the final section of the bylaw is um just you know what the process is um we discussed whether there should be regulations outside of the byw which is similar to for instance How We Do site plan review now there's a separate set of regulations that defines exactly what the submitt process is but at the moment the advice Town Council is bringing is because this is required by WR it's appropriate to lay out you know the guidance on what you have to do right here in the bylaw um so this is this is new language and it's still being reviewed as well but essentially just what do you have to submit you have to submit a site plan that shows all the setbacks and your septic approved um building floor plans elevations uh that meet all the codes and then just a narrative description of The Proposal that describes how you're meeting the purpose of the byw and then we'd have to address if you were uh you know would there be different submission requirements if you were submitting an Adu that required a special permit that's it Christen may I go back to something where um about the building commissioner's decision again I certainly agree with Scott that more discussion may be in order um in the future but my understanding about land court is that that can be a very long and torturing process which would stop a wouldbe Adu Builder from getting to the endpoint anytime soon and that's why under that U section D we talks about uh the applicant can go to the uh zba I would recommend it says that the property owner or a Butters could go to the zba because that can be one way to more quickly reach a a decision which probably would be final without going to the uh added expense of landc Court not that the zba is in uh doesn't have a cost associated with it but it's a much more rapid uh procedure to go through so I would still think we ought to keep on the table the ability of the abutters to raise an issue through the zba but that's my opinion yeah I think I misspoke in that I'm it's I'm not sure it's Lan Court it may just be the regular regular court but I don't think it matters it's a process that could be honorous yeah it I don't I don't think it's l Court I think it's um um could be superior court but it it is a process and it's expensive um that's a great suggestion Steve um I was actually going to comment uh a little further um you know in the event of an appeal I mean maybe there's a um building Commissioners um you know Committee of three people um could be a representative from this board representative from the zoning board um and um you know if there's uh um an appeal I mean it could be um heard and um you know said settled um in a in in a way without you know going to court but um I do think that um it would um nobody wants to you know in my in my experience nobody wants to spend money um unwisely right um or at least most people don't so um what it would invite is is um collaboration talk you know neighbor to neighbor uh just as we heard you know during our last meeting I forget um you know our zoning chair's name but um I should remember that but um you know he he uh he said you know it uh we want our neighbors to um you know talk um maybe a shrub or two um you know before it actually comes to um you know a board with a dispute so um there's certainly some opportunities there and I appreciate your comments Steve I think um I think there's a means there well there there is a statutory procedure um and it it would be good to clarify if whether this proposed Adu bylaw modifies that or or or the Adu law I should say but you can request zoning enforcement of the Building Commissioner and if you don't get relief you can appeal that to the zba so you know if you think your neighbor is in violation of zoning you you uh forward a a zoning enforcement request to the Building Commissioner if he agrees the issues of cease and desist if he doesn't agree then you can appeal that to the zva and from there if you don't like what happens then you go to court I'm assuming that that statutory process would still be in play with this but it's something that really ought to be fleshed out you know yeah I can look into that I think you're right but it should be flushed out good points thanks Larry hey hey Kristen I'm gonna jump back to the short-term rental um and I and I read I read it about four times now chapter 64g section one and I don't think that's going to really uh address the concerns that would be uh raised in this community so I think we really need to look at that and to see if that needs to be really beefed up because it doesn't uh I don't think it it's going to do what what the concerns might be the current definition of short-term rental which is chapter 64g section one it's defined there where did I sorry where I'm lost where we have that just I see it right there all right okay good so what I mean prohibited from any as a rental unit on a weekly or daily basis so my understanding is that you you can rent something for more than a a month now 31 days is that what you have been seeing in this mdl uh no I'm just my concern is the definition of short-term rental yeah so this is not this you're you don't feel like this definition covers the concerns I'm not sure yeah I we'll look into it y I think it's important discussion as well and I um well new brap does it now which is there's a you can you cannot rent a unit for fewer than 30 days but you can rent them for 31 days so we need to look at what exactly the allowance is in the mgl go ahead stot no I was only going to say it's it's um that's probably um an area where it needs great clarity um because if if it isn't um and if there's any loopholes or um you know Airbnb I mean just short-term rentals um it would uh certainly invite that um and I'm not sure uh whether we want that or not uh but whatever the definition is that's probably most important um and everything that we've seen here today um that we get that right yeah I'm not familiar with that section of chapter 64g I think it must be something fairly new but it it looks like the state has a de statutory definition of short-term rental and the question becomes whether or not we can imply um greater restrictions than the state uh definition [Music] and whether we want to um you know impose greater restrictions well two good questions Larry um Christen would it be um I guess in your opinion based on what you know would there be an opportunity for the town to impose you know greater restrictions um so you're asking my opinion I mean well your opinion on what you um what we have out in front of us today um I think that short-term rentals is something newb is overdue taking a look at um I think we don't currently regulate them in any way um we also don't uh we have not enacted the ability we have to um to tax them to impose a you know a a short-term rental tax which would bring Revenue to the town um it's something that I've heard talked about a way that towns um provide some funding into affordable housing trust funds is through uh the hotel room the room tax um and I I don't know a lot about it but I know it exists and I know it brings Revenue to towns that have a lot of short-term rentals so it's something we're leaving on the table currently um so the other thing I would say about short-term rentals is um you know they're appealing to investors and to property owners and for a lot of reasons um particularly in communities that are you know have seasonal residences people go away for the winter you know it's it's it's a revenue um stream in a community where properties are expensive um however if you use them as short-term rentals then they're not generally used as long-term rentals and so that's the real um I think concern that people have is that you are you may have a lot of dwelling units um of different sizes and costs but if they're all being used on a night toight basis you're never going to actually create a home for someone to live in one of those um small dwelling units so it's you know it's a big thing it's a big question for communities to think about and and consider um and this is sort of pushing us to do that I guess um I also know that I've heard from The Building Commissioner that there are new um requirements that building Commissioners will have to inspect accessory dwelling units annually so there's real concern about capacity particularly of small towns to do that and in addition if we don't actually know where they are um how do we how do we do that there this uh this legislation requires um annual reporting from municipalities back up to the state they are going to be asking towns to report every year in March about how many accessory dwelling units have been built um and the state is sort of promising to communities that they want to support this initiative um and they're looking at financing strategies and other ways to really encourage uh the development of accessory units so there's a lot influx and there's a lot to consider and a lot to come Christ go ahead Scott well just just just to your point on the inspections um you know over the next 2 or 3 years say we get 50 100 you know adus I mean that um that's a lot of inspections that's a a tax to the town um human capital tax um is there um would there be an opportunity with these regulations to get um to get included um you know if it's state requirement that the Adu owner um SL homeowner is responsible for um an inspection fee um so we can at least charge back uh some of these um inspection um you know to um to the end user yeah I don't know I it's again it's something I think the Building Commissioner would have more information about or or could get it's a good question okay Steve you're thank you Scott uh Kristen do you know if the group you're working with is entertaining the idea that the building commissioner or inspector would have the right to go into the subject properties to verify what's going on uh again without trying to pick on Plum Island to you know make sure there are only three bedrooms total in the two units in question I my understanding is that the town assessor cannot go into homes as a right to check out whether the conditions are as advertised on the uh Assessor's Records but it does seem to me that uh if you have to do an inspection you can't do it from the outside you need to be able to get inside and to address what of the point Scott was making uh suppose that could be a good way for the Assessor and the building inspector to uh work together to divvy up the workload yeah um so can they do that now with a single family home in any way I know you're saying the assessor can't but can the building inspector no no no they the building inspector um after final certificate of occupancy um I mean their their job's done um so I think Steve may have been alluding to um you know Adu Builders Adu homeowners um th000 square fet or 900 whatever it is um you know if it had a basement if it had you know an attic um you know once you get certificate of uency on that uh um on that dwelling um you know after the fact um you could get you know finished attic maybe 400 squ feet up there maybe 600 squ feet in the basement you know another thousand on top of the 1,900 ft so effectively 1,900 Square fet um which would be um you know to the footprint you wouldn't know okay but to the traffic um to the you know number of folks you know residing in that Adu um it could be significantly different than what um as um we believe the original attempt was supposed to be just another question yeah no I I mean there's no restriction on bedrooms so you could have if you can fit them in you can have four bedrooms and nine00 square foot you know just saying but you can have four bedrooms if you're on PL Island and you can only have three bedrooms or you already have three beds so you can't even have one so but yeah I mean Steve your questions I just I guess I feel like they pertain right now anyway so it's it's I'm not sure I'm not sure what this process whether there would be any new um ability that isn't currently in place related in particular to The Plum Island overlay District I mean other Lots in town do not have restrictions on bedrooms other than title five right but and then once again Title Five kicks in so yeah whatever the layout of the property that and what the what it's approved for deceptic so presumably if one tried to add too many bedrooms uh without permission your uh title five or your septic system would soon let you know that you've oversubscribed the uh construct but even so it would be good if you know an inspector could periodically go in and make sure the bedrooms haven't been added uh and devil make here to how the subject systems behaving uh I can set a real world example I'll use my house as an example which has three bedrooms but if I'm thinking myself if I wanted to build an Adu I could easily take out the closet in one of my bedrooms and just made it a den by not a bedroom and then I could use my third bedroom to go into the Adu that I would build but I would have to uh having taken out the closet through so that I so that I no longer have a bedroom designation for that room well I could wink wink nod nod and put a closet back in there but someone would have to come in and check and find it out now I'm not going to do that but I'm saying that's how my mind works when I think about possibilities here yeah I mean again I it's it's sort of just what we have to deal with regarding single family dwellings we need to just think about this in a parallel way to that it's there's no more ability to be um I don't think there's the ability to dig in deeper than you currently can with single families I know Scott mentioned the idea the idea of the possibility look at uh a fe for people to build Adu so that the in the town would have the resources to go in and look at it but I think historically the town of Newbury has been very reluctant to Levy uh fees on the town's people again just an observation yeah I mean the hope is this does the Hope in the legislation is that it does result in some of these being built but you know there are a lot of barriers to any single family homeowner actually being able to do this um so I think one things that's being discussed is whether it will be a situation where you know which we have many of in my opinion in Newbury and our you know our housing data shows but houses that are three or four bedroom that now only have one or two adults living there and they're aging so would it be the case that this would enable them to build a dwelling unit for themselves to um simplify smaller upkeep smaller maintenance and sell the single family and if it's a family member or not it would be a way to enable that kind of movement of demographics um in in small ways you know not not in the same ways that we were being asked to think about with the multif family um MBTA zoning well conceptually I think it's a great idea I'm just thinking about implementation it's one thing to you know have a good desirable goal but just got to make sure you can build it yeah I think I was thinking about like an added fee to someone trying to do this would potentially be another barrier to it actually being done um but it it's you know I can I can definitely talk with the Building Commissioner about you know how how they think this is going to go I think we'll be learning as we go um and again this goes into effect in February so even before we have our bylaw in place there will people will be able to um do what the legislation allows them to do I was I was just going to just close with it it it's going to be um really learning along the way here um and in a perfect world um you know as uh as somebody that's aging as aging parents um I have children that you know have um children um you know someone that's has a four bedroom home in Newbury that um um you know a couple that are empty nesters they their kids don't live here they can't afford to come here and live here and buy a home um but um for that uh that couple to potentially and by the way I mean our kids are having less kids right so families are growing are actually um getting smaller so um for these kids to have uh two kids where in the past we'd have three or four kids in a family and for us to um move out um of the home potentially sell um um that home to our our kids who and then just potentially eliminate a bedroom go from 4: to 3 um you know on that home that would allow an Adu to tie into an existing sept you know you know system um that is like that's perfect case right and um and I I think uh U if we can get some of the way there with that um it's a win-win um so we get uh we get some hurdles it's a lot of questions um you know you have uh a ton of work to do hopefully we can support you um you know with that work and um let's see where we need to go very good thank you everyone really good questions and um just remind me of the comments but we'll uh we'll keep working on it so um so next steps so our next meeting is January 8th um so we will have hopefully a little bit of time off over the holidays and then we will um have time to dive back in with Town Council and mvpc and bring what is closer I guess unless we have another meeting uh to what our final draft would be and then um January 22nd we'd be at the next meeting we'd be meeting the final final draft um to recommend to the select board and start the public hearing process and during the public hearing there's still an opportunity to remind us all for public comment and tweaking and changes and questions and we will make sure we um you know include a public process in terms of Outreach and getting information out to people um Woody had a great idea and uh we're pursuing making a like a one to two pager about this in the same way we did for the MBTA because I just think that's super helpful to get the sound bites and understand what the purpose is and then what we have to do so we're working on that all right um very good discussion on adus um under zoning amend Amendment discussions I'm having trouble talking the next thing we have on here is uh flood plane bylaw yeah um I think I'm going to say something similar to what I said at the last meeting which is we have drafts people are re reviewing them it's gonna have to get one more discussion with Town Council and then it's going to go back to the state um to make sure that the changes we're making are what we're required to make in order to stay in the National flood insurance program which is the primary um reason behind the amendment um so I'm happy that I know I sent that out late um and I am not sure a line by line would make sense right now but happy if there are any questions and then we'll probably need to schedule a little more time at the next meeting okay sounds good the next thing is unfortunately we do not have Matha with us tonight but uh the recodification of zoning bylaw all right um okay this is another one that feels a little overwhelming right now but it's been in the works for many years that those of you involved in zoning with this town including um volunteers on the zoning board and planning board in particular Martha and Town Council and other members of Staff um over the years have flagged different um concerns about our current zoning bylaw so Martha has been wrapping her arms around all of it and um trying to hone in on what at this point we can do for this year and I would say we are still hoping to bring a general zoning Amendment warrant article to this town meeting um but it's uh we're sort of honing in on what we're ready to bring similar to Adu there are probably a few things that we're not going to have time to really fully have discussions about for this year um but the sections of the recodification that we are proposing to bring to this year's town meeting include um a lot of the administrative sections of the bylaw so article one has um General Provisions um Article Five uh the special permit section of the bylaw um does not have criteria related to the ability of the boards when they're reviewing special permits um so that's something that's been a concern that's very unusual I've never seen a Town's bylaw that doesn't have special permit criteria um the in particular the osrd has been something that this board has uh acknowledged there's some need to clarify certain elements of the language and then um definitions sort of doing housekeeping to make sure things are consistent between different sections of the bylaw um updating some of the definitions similar to what we were talking about already tonight um making sure that they're all up to date and consistent and then there's just some general things like um the bylaw still says Selectmen so you can just have a line that says replace and all the locations um to be select board which was a change that was made by the town several years ago but just hasn't been updated in the zone byla there are a few things in that um sort of administrative cleanup category so Martha's done a ton of work on it um she was sorry to miss talking with you all tonight but is um under the weather with a cold um and we're going to keep working away on it and figure out a way to bring this to forward in a way that's digestable and understandable to town meeting I think zoning um is difficult uh for you know a lot of us to have enough time to understand in terms of town meeting voters but I think there'll be a way to just kind of package it to show that we're just working to clean things up and clarify very good and lastly the ms4 storm water modification okay that's a very simple change if you remember last um late spring I think it was May the board um was asked to update some of the regulations um related to how the town reviews um storm water requirements and is um uh these are requirements from EPA for the municipal uh the ms4 permit which is an EPA permit um so this is there's one section of the um site plan review that requires an update so I think that'll be fairly straightforward and it would be a standalone um warrant article it does because we're making that change it does open the door to whether we have any other changes we want in the site plan review section so that is a question i' sort of ask you all that if you have time to take a look at um I have not really done that thoroughly myself yet but um because it's all in the same section and we can just you know bold and underline and make a few changes if we need if we think Okay so we've got through the zoning amendments discussion it was good discussion and much needed discussion and we'll have more in the future um now I see the last thing on the agenda is the planning director's report um okay uh quickly um some updates from the last two weeks and then looking ahead um there's some housing news there is um I wanted to mention that the cricket Lanes 40b is you know moving ahead they are um have requested their first building permits for four units so um we've been working collectively among different staff members to make sure um on behalf of the zba who's the permitting Authority for that um that development that all the conditions are being met so that's actually um just it's new for a town to have to like oversee that work um and in particular uh the conservation agent has been working with d to assure that um you know storm water and the impacts of our big rainstorm recently um are being met so that's good and exciting I think um for the town um there's also a coming up a marac Valley Housing Summit I just wanted to flag for all of you is save the date if you're interested it's Tuesday January 14th in the morning um at uh um I forget where it is I think in havil um and it'll be an opportunity there'll be um a panel of discussion about how communities can really support um the development of affordable housing and and it's geared towards both planning staff but also planning volunteers and board members uh January 14th um I wanted to send Kudos out to our neighboring community and the um greater newre Port affordable housing Choice Coalition that um did a lot of advocacy on a project a housing project converting the Brown School in Newport to housing um as of last night and some of you may already know this but the proposal for the um renovation for that school which is empty now is uh to provide 29 units of Housing and 100% affordability so they are proposing that those 29 units all of them are um eligible for the subsized housing inventory and are to be developed at a a rate of 30 to 60% of the area Med in income which is really incredible um and important because housing is super expensive so kudos to new BR port and a lot of Advocates who did work on um sort of encouraging the city and city council and the mayor to to really take that seriously and um you know it'll be great to watch and see that there can be a 29 unit uh multif family development that is 100% affordable it'll set a good tone for um what is possible I think in in our neighboring communities um we're working on uh the border to Boston Trail the town received an earmark for um some work on the segment of the board of Boston trail from bfield to Georgetown that earmark is no longer needed for that purpose that it was um originally envisioned for so we have from now until September to repurpose that money so I've been starting to work on um developing talking with Mass and may ma Valley Planning Commission and other communities that have borot and work going on in their Community um and getting model rfps for the town it's the town's money um it's not State money it's a federal earmark that came to the town um and it has a match that is being provided by the state so we're looking at moving forward the segment that hasn't had any feasibility work done yet which is from the Scotland Road um exit off of 95 to Newburyport so that segment of the trail route that's on paper has hasn't had any feasibility work or survey work done yet um so that's going to be something that um and just again if anyone's particularly interested in Trails there members of the open space committee interested and there are some other folks um the coastal Trails Coalition who are going to help with that but that would be really exciting I think along with these conversations we're hovering about traffic and and Public Safety and how I think consensus is traffic has increased dramatically in Newbury in recent years um just providing other alternative ways for people to travel on routes the idea of a trail from bfield to Newburyport ISC exciting to me so um just wanted to share that um that's good it's enough oh no I have one more thing sorry the housing production plan just to follow up uh from the last meeting we would like to move that forward for adoption so it was great to have Ian and Tyler give the presentation you all I will share around again but there's a draft of the House of the draft housing production plan I'm really looking if any of you have time um to dive into that a little and send me any like line edits or bigger questions anything big to little because I think it's in great shape I'm reading it all again we're working with mvpc once they get all our next round of edits they'll put it into a design as they've done you know that's more graphic and um prer um and then it'll it's going to come back to you all it would be great if that's ready to come back at the next meeting January 8th many of the towns in the region are working to approve their housing production plan and submit it up to the state during the month of January we obviously have a lot going on um but it would be great to move that forward and there you know as you all know there's been a lot of public Outreach over the whole last year um so I think it's I think it's in great shape the planning board would vote to approve it and then it would go to the select board to vote to approve it and submit it to the state and then off it goes um and then there might be some back and forth from the state but um that is something I will be reminding you all of and asking for any input okay thank you Kristen Y and before I entertain a motion to a journ I would just like to say I wish everyone a happy healthy and most importantly safe holiday season it's been a pleasure to work with everyone this year and I'm looking forward to working with everyone next year and on that no I would entertain a motion to adjourn unless anyone has anything else to say no thanks and same to you and I'll move to adjourn very good a second shears to that very good so roll call vote Pete absolutely yes Scot and Steve yes happy holidays y have a good night everyone and thank you so much thanks everyone great job great job tonight thank you