##VIDEO ID:tbOz8xXUJAs## as a preliminary matter this Woody night chair of the new planning board permit me to confirm that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me planning board members when I call your name please respond in the affirmative Peter posos yes sir Larry Murphy uh here Mary Stone yes Scott ker yes and Steve Manan I I very good town staff when I call your name please respond the affirmative Kristen grubs to planner yes hello Daniel AO assistant planner yes and Matha Taylor I don't think she's joined us yet but she'll be with us soon she's our special projects planner good evening January 22nd 2025 open meeting of the new planning board is being conducted remotely consistent with the chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 which extends the governor's March 12th 2020 order suspending certain provis provisions of the open meeting law GL c3a 20 until March 31st 2025 for this meeting the N planning board is convening by video conference via Zoom as posted on the planning board's agenda which can be found on the town's website you may join us by going to http semicolon zoom. us and entering meeting ID number 832 7141 3056 and the passcode is 10879 or by calling in 19292 5 6099 us and entering meeting ID number and passcode when prompted for Zoom meetings please note that this meeting is being recorded that attendees are particip participating by video and on telephone conference the meeting is also being broadcast live through local access Channel 9 and on zoom and at www.tn cv. and the recording will be available on the Newber access YouTube channel meeting business ground rules before we turn to the first item on the agenda permit me to cover some ground rules for Effective and clear conduct of our business and to ensure accurate meeting minutes as chair I will introduce each speaker on the agenda after speakers conclude their remarks I will go down the list of board members inviting each by name to provide any comment questions or motions the meeting tonight does not include any public hearings however after members have spoken I will afford the public an opportunity to comment and or ask questions I will seek questions and comments through the zoom race hand function in the order in which the people click on the rais hand button finally each vote taken in this meeting will be conducted by roll call vote so that's that pre able out of the way first item on the agenda we have um Steve Sawyer Millennium engineering uh Florence bushy lane owner Barry Costa FHA trustee bushy real estate trust press to a um request to approve performance bond for security to reconstruct subdivision Road between 21 and 27 Newman Road pre the previous approved subdivision plan um at the request of the applicant um we're going to um not do this this evening we're going to um put them on the agenda for the next Mee so that brings us to the next um item on the agenda business um I have here housing production plan um and actually before we do the housing production plan let's do the um proposed we'll go back to the housing production plan uh actually we have Matha now yes hi Matha hi everybody Mara now that maa's here we'll go to um proposed zoning byw Amendment for spring 2025 annual town meeting and uh this is a review of them and to vote to refer to the select board um the first item on there is the article one General provisions and that's uh M let me see if I'm I'm working on a new laptop now so I'm going to see if I can actually bring this up um all right have you got have you all are you all able to see that yes yes great so this is really um the same uh same language that we reviewed at the the last meeting um on the eighth with no changes and they're basically General Provisions that that U Town Council has recommended that we add to our zoning to be consistent with Mass General law so I don't know if you want me to go over any of it or if you've all had a chance to review it before this or if you have I have a chance to review it um if everyone else has had a chance to review it and not comfortable with that we can move right on to questions if anyone has any questions for MAA and if if you haven't had a chance to review and would like her to go over please speak up I'm not hearing questions and I'm not hearing anyone saying that we want to go through it so everyone is comfortable with the language before us uh so does anyone want to see that article we are looking at again go no questions on article one I'm fine with it as drafted okay everyone else Ste yes Scot Mary Steve just yes if you're happy with it okay so we can go on then Kristen um article four regulations of overlay districts um section 974 e CL Hazard that would be you can you guys see this share screen yes yep I can okay um so article four um is the overlay districts um there are a number of these within section four but um letter e is flood Hazard so as we mentioned um previous L um so I'm not I cannot see the um waai in room right now just so you co-host no um article four uh related to the flood Hazard um are U modifications to update the town's bylaw which we have had since 2012 Newberry has had the flood Hazard bylaw um approved by the town the updates are required because the um maps have been uh updated the FEMA Maps so the language essentially uh reflects um new dates July 8th is when the new firm Maps will go into effect um and in order for the town to stay in the National flood in insurance program for our residents to be able to stay in that program um we need to get our bylaw up to date so these changes have been reviewed by Town Council and reviewed by um the flood plane staff at uh DCR um yeah and I am happy to answer any specific questions that anyone has does anyone have any questions no I don't okay not for me very good if everyone's happy with that we can go on to the next one if that's okay with everyone if you have any questions please speak up now hearing none we'll go on then to um section 975d common driveways uh oh I'm sorry I apologize I believe I skipped one so Article Five has several sections um Woody yep I I I got ahead of myself I apologize so it would be the third one would be article five special permits General and there's five of them here the first one is a general 97- 5A right and just to note um when Kristen and Daniel and I spoke last week we agreed that actually since we have some very specific per special permits underneath in this within this article as well as general requirements that it made sense to us to actually delete the word General so this article would become named special permits and then um otherwise outlined within this article such as wind and solar and that kind of thing so it includes the decision- making criteria and conditions which may be imposed um on special permits uh provision for for waivers um and uh and lapse of the special permit and again this is all Lang from Town Council so any questions on on those I have none I don't have any no no no no very good so that's Article Five so that's part of Article Five the next uh the next section of this um we're not including any changes to um B right now which is bed and breakfast will deal with that if there are any changes that will be in the next phase of the recodification uh so the next section that we're looking at is C which is the open space residential development uh we went through this briefly last time um and again in reviewing it with Kristen and Daniel there are a few uh additional suggestions that we made going down to basic maximum number which is 2A um we had talked last time about perh perhaps trying to to modify and clarify that but in looking at the provision in the bylaw it actually refers to the osrd uh yield plan requirements so it seemed after discussing it it seems to us that it's really more appropriate to make any revisions to the yield plan requirements within the osrd rules and regulations as opposed to doing it in the bylaw so that's um that's the first change it's a little different from what we discussed last time because the yield plan really lays out in in the in the osrd regulations it really lays out what's expected in the yield plan um and I think that's what we need to take a look at to to try to clarify that that whole process and the distinction between lots and and and uh units um there is language Also regarding ability to support septic systems and that kind of thing so if the board is is in agreement um we would recommend actually not making any change to this provision 2A right now enough me and then having a separate process which would be a public hearing to amend the rules and regulations but it it does have the advantage if not if in the future if we need to make any amendments we don't have to go back town meeting that's correct so going down um I think most of the rest of this is um consistent with what we talked about last time we had the change regarding um uh subsurface systems oh here's um O2 here uh Town Council had recommended that we add some language uh regarding streets in a in a condominium development as a as well as a subdivision and the recommendation was that um if if an osrd is being developed as a condominium and not a subdivision the roadway still needs to meet the subdivision uh design and construction standards so we've added that in this provision here which speaks to streets so that's the the Bold underlined language there yeah I had some of these highlighted on my version but uh this is fine so um is there something else you want me to stop at no I think the only um the board took the straw vote last week on or last at the last meeting about the um open space subsurface um being part of the open space so I think that's fine um which is this provision right here yeah and there was this change right which we discussed last time so I think that's it for this one okay I'm comfortable with it everybody else is comfortable if you have any questions please speak up I'm good will they me too yes very good so we can go on Matha the next one would be the common driveway uh the next one is the common driveway and the only change that we discussed last time was actually making reference to the planning board's rules and regulations but again in in uh going through it a little bit further I was reminded of the Bittersweet process that we went through where they they were actually uh common uh common driveway design specifications uh and in that case there were several that that were appropriate to wave but there was no provision in the bylaw for the board to to wave those requirements and ended up having to go to the zba for a variance yes so the suggestion here would be to actually provide a um you know a mechanism for the uh the planning board to wave those requirements um and the language is highlighted if the board deems the waiver is in the public interest and does not impact Public Safety um we have not yet reviewed this provision or this language with Town Council so obviously we want to do that but um when we were going through that process before before I think we were all in agreement that if if that language were in the bylaw then the board would have had the discretion to make those waivers because it ended up being quite a cumbersome process for the ver the applicant to have to go to the zba stop the pro the public hearing go to the zba get the variance and come [Music] back so I guess the question to you all does that seem to make sense yes yes yes yes yes yes all right and then the only other change was the uh reference to the submission requirements um because what's here is inconsistent with with what's actually on the application form and then moving down Town Council oh I'm sorry anything about that nope and then moving down there are no no proposed changes at this time to sections E and F which are the wind uh and solar bylaws so moving down uh this again has come from Town Council and these are the two marijuana bylaws the first one G which you see is all all struck out here um specifically references Med medical marijuana treatment centers and since the recreational marijuana bylaw was passed um it seems that the two can actually be combined so Council has recommended placing um just adding references to Med medical marijuana treatment centers to our marijuana establishments and we haven't shown that here but that would probably be then um a matter of of ruming this to G is H the last one Mar uh H is the last one okay I know in other places we've just left G kind of blank so as not to conflict with any other references but probably in this case there aren't any I don't know do we know if there any references to H um else we in the zone byw I can't think of any um except possibly in the definitions which will ultimately get moved over um for any that aren't in the bylaw right now so I don't I don't think so but we should double check on that okay yeah so we're just talking about what this is called here so we'll figure that out that's it for this one anyone have any questions on this so are they comfortable with it yes we thank you Y Larry yes yes yes okay thank you Scott Pete yeah you're all set yep y very good okay so with that said um we can continue on to um article that article nine special regulations Section 97- 9 a site plan review I don't believe I just skipped something no that's the next one so the last meaning we talked about one change to this which is down uh towards the end um having to do with pre construction meetings and that language was recommended by our um stormwater consultant Renee budro to make it consistent with our the requirements of our ms4 general permit and um the language specifically was to review storm water practices and controls um to make sure that that's done prior to start of construction uh in addition um Christen if you can scroll back up um under design criteria we talked about adding another um Criterion which is um a new um sorry I just wanted to show that decision under this decision criteria category people can see that beginning part and this would be to add a criteria so that the board would consider the extent to which the the project utilizes energy water and resource efficient design to the greatest degree possible including appropriate building orientation landscape design use of solar or other energy collection apparatuses electric vehicle charging stations light fixtures and use of resource efficient materials and energy and water efficient systems the criteria really don't address any of those um considerations right now so the question would be does the does the board feel comfortable adding that language um those considerations as decision criteria I'm comfortable with it um anyone have any questions so like to express seems very appropriate very good everyone else comfortable with it I am language okay Martha I have one other thing though yes um on uh 6h uh because I think we kind of got burnt with this in the past uh minimize intrusion of glare from headlights and uh sight Lighting on surrounding properties um you know at one point in time we had talked about trying to follow dark sky compliant guidelines and it was somewhere in something that we had and I don't know I don't remember where that was do you I know that we had discussions about potentially adopting a lighting bylaw with dark sky compliant um you know requirements right but we don't have the bylaws and I and I get that but if we were to somehow use some sort of language you know consistent with dark sky you know uh um you know I don't know I'm I'm not finding the right words right now but somehow put it in here because every time I see that glare from Route One I just I just think about this I know I do too I was driving by it the other night and I was thinking about it and we have a pre-existing in a couple other areas of the town but you know you know going forward I think would you know make sense you know and continue again with the culture of the town and the community and and our you know natural you know habitat that we be cons you know considerate and consistent with that right so I guess the question would be whether we would add some language in in h to that effect or um modify the new n um where it talks about light LED light fixtures but maybe some reference to um because I think n you know goes with new technologies and all yeah yeah you know and so I think leave all the new technologies the way they are but within our saying you know sight lighting uh you know consistent with you know doc Sky um I need another word or two here yeah yeah Larry where are you with the words yeah I I I I I agree with your intent I'm I'm having a hard time coming up with the right terminology myself what what is it is dark dark it's dark sky um compliance comply guidelines who publishes who's responsible for drafting dark sky compliance I mean where does it come from I guess there is actually something see if I can find it yeah I'm trying to find it too does that mean is it is it just a catchall phrase there's actually um dark sky International right and they have five principles for responsible outdoor lighting um useful targeted lowlevel controlled and warm colored and there's something else too because I've I remember looking at this before Martha yeah I mean maybe it would be something um consistent with dark sky um dark sky lighting principles or practices um ORD and uh sight lighting minimize light pollution in accordance with dark sky Scott have you run across this at all I I'm looking myself I see you know really the dark sky compliance standards yep um you know the first um before I open up the article it says a fixture must be fully shielded and emit no light above the horizontal plane um and I think that's probably the horizontal plane of The Shield creating codes and statutes well I think Scott what you just said maybe you know consistent what is it consistent with dart um Sky recognize codes and statuses and statutes well they're not really codes and statutes I think in in in compliance with what was the word you use Scott um um compliance standards dark sky compliance standards no I think you had it Martha consistent with dark sky compliance standard so compliance comes after Sky yeah I I'm fine with the intent uh I you probably want to run that language by Town Council to make sure that it's definitive enough you know yeah that there's a stand that can be understood and met right so minimize intrusion of glare from headlights and sight Lighting on surrounding um whatever it is and minimalize light con minimize light pollution consistent with dark sky compliance standards something like that yeah thanks guys yes I I think it's was great good good job Pete and if everyone's happy with the intent of this language if it is to change council's review if everyone was okay with that so be it because we I think it's important that that's is here no I think so too and thanks for bringing that up Pete yeah I think if you guys are okay with us wordsmithing it a little bit more and running it by Town Council um we can we can work with that I'm comfortable with that if anyone isn't please speak up okay thank you that brings us to article 10 General regulations 9710 C customary home occupation excuse me occupations so we discussed this one last time as well and this was the change to um basically make it clear that if a use requires a special permit under our table of regulations it cannot be permitted by the Building Commissioner as a customary home occupation it requires that special permit and Town Council has seen this language and she she feels that that that um addresses the concern good I'm happy with that does anyone have any questions or comments everybody comfortable that is comfortable hearing nothing we can move on then the next one would be um place um General regulations Section 97 d10d accessory Apartments that's Daniel yeah so uh last meeting um if I remember correctly the discussion was around the definition of short-term rental and so we had a discussion with Town Council last week and it was basically said that is the definition of short-term rental and it was basically encouraged that the board if they want to determine the length of time for a short-term rental could weigh in at a later date and time for this one as the law is coming into effect on February 2nd and we want to be compliant so that was really what was reported in terms of the definition and excuse me I don't believe there was any other edits and so we haven't updated any other edits besides that even find that do you guys where is that short rental and that that's we're we're limited to the 31 days for now because of the February 2D deadline right so D Daniel when when do we weigh in on that again um so it was encouraged that the planning board once it gets through all Town excuse me all town meeting that the planning board can then revisit this at their Leisure and determine what they wanted to do because there was some really good conversations around three-month limit six-month limit Etc so again Town Council at the meeting we ran that up the chain it was encouraged that you guys kind of take on the definition of 31 days or less for short-term rental and then could revisit it once this has been approved and moved on I think if I may council's other other point was that we currently don't have any short-term reg uh rental regulations in place and she thought it would be beneficial for us to have those in place yeah definitely thank you Martha you're welcome so that's once we do that we can come back and and revisit the uh the short-term rental Provisions in the Adu bylaw I'm comfortable with that to be certain to return okay everyone else any other comments anyone comfortable it myself um for now so we'll move on to the next one um article 11 Administration that's so the first portion of this again we discussed this at the last meeting has to do largely with um additional language regarding uh building permits and building commissioner building permit requirements and this is all language that Town Council advised that we we include in this Administration section and then going down um she did add some language regarding variances we do have a question on that because she's noted dimensional variances here there actually is a provision in um The Plum Island overlay District regarding use use variances so that's uh something that we want to have a further discussion with her about on this particular language uh the next section um was um section c which had to do with the special permit requirements that's all been moved to Article Five but we're suggesting that we just we keep section c as a heading and call it reserved because there probably are other uh articles within the bylaw which refer to section D which are all the written written definitions originally I was thinking we could just rename change D to C but we don't want to create any internal inconsistencies so um we felt that it would be best to keep d as the as the definitions for now and then as noted the last last version you saw had a number of definitions crossed out because the intention was to move them to the specific bylaws to which they pertain but um those aren't some of most of those aren't being changed right now so we've kept uh We've deleted the strikeout for those um um there are still a few that we are uh having discussions about one is the definition of uh well the definitions for dwelling we made a few amendments to those um and reordered it the last uh last version uh said dwelling unit single family dwelling unit two family dwelling unit multif family um we deleted the word unit in in the those three definitions since it didn't really seem to make a lot of sense um so you see that slight modification here under fence um the way it read previously was any structure constructed of of and then including but not limited to so we're suggesting adding the words natural or manufactured materials after constructed of and then saying including but not limited to and the next one we're still discussing is Building height this is a uh revised version which is based on uh the definition Building height that a number of other municipalities have which refers specifically to um how it's measured for flat roof to mansard roofs um and to sloped roofs including uh Gable head um salt box Gambrell and um also with some exclusions of of apperences which don't come into the building height definition um I've sent that to Eric span the chair of the zba um because it's really the zba that's been struggling with the building height definition particularly for projects down on Plum Island um so we're waiting to to get some feedback um from from him on that I don't know whether this will be discussed at the uh next week's zba meeting but um this is this is one proposal which seems to clarify how that measurement is taken it's still from mean grade to you know to these various different different height determinations I have a question Martha sure what is the deckline of a mansard roof so um if you look at a there's there's a portion that's very steeply sloped and that's usually encl enclos encloses living space like second story and then there's a sharp change in angle to um a portion of the roof which is much less much lower slope and so the deck line is that point between the steep slope and the lower slope oh okay okay yeah yeah and the Steep pot can usually include Windows because it's in the Liv space right MAA that's correct I mean usually they're kind of dormant windows but it's usually living living space and it's a second or third story typically yeah mansard roofs are typically four-sided aren't they they are [Music] yes I can think of a few in new but I can't think of any in newb um I think 80 what is it 85 High Road the Parkins house I think that's a mansard roof I'm trying to think of others and there's another one on high road um uh just north of the Old Town Hall on the opposite side of the street I think couple houses the gas station yep you're correct it's I think it's red yes I know there I know there's one on 420 marac Street new report if you would have Google the address pop up right but there there aren't there aren't a whole lot in Newberry no so Martha just a comment here I've seen some very large kpas yes and so the key to that I think is not intended for human habitation and this is actually something that the zba may be concerned about because on a lot of the projects down on Plum Island you'll have like a a Cupa or dogghouse or something that will provide access out onto a roof deck and they're specifically supposed to be designed so they're not habitable it's just the stairs and the door out um so if it were something that were habitable could actually be considered a room then that would that would be part of the roof height but I mean your point is well taken and I I think the zba may have some discussion about that and then it could even be a third story if it's if indeed it's a room right right which it's you know it's not supposed to be obviously so I'm not you know I'm not not as I said we're this is still a work in progress um due to due to the zba review um yes and you know to make sure that it does you know address the question that Pete just asked to make sure that um if a Cupa is is not considered um or if the building height restrictions don't apply to that that it's something that is going to be very small small thing and not be habitable space good anyone else have any other questions so Martha I mean how how do we move forward with this then because [Music] um the plane Board needs to refer it tonight so if the planning board's comfortable with this then the select board reviews it um but that will all start to happen before the zba meeting right I mean I think the important thing really is to uh to move forward with the thought that there will be a modification to the change of Building height um and there's still some opportunity for changing that if there's um I mean I I don't I personally don't think that the the language needs to be 100% set right now so during the planning we're adhering in February there could be modifications minor modifications minor yeah minor modifications to it okay I just thought that might be helpful for the planning board to understand what going forward if there were were to be a change so and basically what you're saying is we can approve this vote on it tonight with the with the notion that we can make a few minor modifications in public Hearing in February right right yes yeah very good all right does anyone have any questions about anything Matha you're that was the last thing for um the last yeah I think the last one that's still a work in progress is the definition well two things on light lot Frontage um we had um talked last time about the fact that um in Newbury at least for Corner Lots the frontage can be one side or the other so the front yard setback needs to be adhered to only on one side and the other would be considered a sidey yard setback the practice has been um for the property owner to designate which is going to be the front yard um or if we talked about if the owner doesn't do that um it could be the frontage that's the longest length um so that language has been um inserted here um so when a lot is bounded by more than one street Frontage should be on the street designated by the property owner or if not so designated on the street with the longest Frontage and I also had a question on that one um the part that's highlighted with the comment um wondering whether the language that reads right now to which the owner of the lot has a legal right of access and to which the owner could provide for vehicular access from the principal building or required parking space I was wondering whether that could be simplified to um just read to um The Continuous portion of line separating a lot from a street providing uh physical or legal access um to the dwelling I can't actually see um yeah physical and legal access to the lot that's also something that we have not run by Town Council yet or haven't gotten any any feedback on but the the language seems a little bit confusing right now so I don't know if you all have any thoughts about that anyone have any thoughts about that one interior angle which what is that where is that inter interior angle of more than 135° M so um yeah we're sort of talking about Lots which have um boundaries which meet it right angles but 135 degrees would be um if um if say the front yard and side well if it's a corner lot and it's a um getting my geometry mixed up now but if the if the two property lines that meet at the corner are greater than 90 degrees or greater than 135 degrees they're combined Frontage is what makes makes the frontage it would be easier if I could do a diagram yeah I like to see that I'm just confused yeah it's a lot easier U it's a lot easier um yeah it's I'm trying to GL anyway I'm not that b r i t either so um algebra and everything about this but you're an architect yeah yes you have an excuse I'm not I'm not explaining it very well I know I expected more I expected more M right I know you're not delivering on your promises right I know a picture's worth a thousand words so to so totally true gu me if it's like if it's wide right wider right wider then it all of it can be used as Frontage right right right okay that makes sense if it's if it's a gentle curve rather than a sharp angle I think is the point if I understand correctly 135 is like the magic number between where it looks more like closer to a line than a corner okay I'm no architect I don't know how's still a corner though I mean I find this a little weird as well Mary because there's still a corner yeah it could be simpler that's what I'm saying if if I could grasp the right words I would have written you a longer letter if I'd had more time shorter letter 180 degrees would be a straight line and 90 would be obviously 90 degrees right Matha right so this is this is about halfway in between I think actually newburry Port zoning has a um has a diagram which un I'm afraid to call anything up right now um never know what my F Well I think what we should decide is if we're comfortable with this or if we think it needs more time then we can not change it right now I don't think it needs more time I just think we need to find a word a phrase that actually describes it and as Martha said if there were a diagram then we wouldn't have to go into all this detail but right now anyway I should come up with something never blinding about it so I have a picture here that I could share I don't know if we want to risk sharing screens but I have a picture that kind of demonstrates the interior 135 if that helps everyone's scared here we go hold yourself here we go yeah roll the dice can you see that not yet so that 135 right there right right right at that street line Street line and then you've got 135 that's the yard I don't know if you could see my mouse moving or not but yeah so that would be the yard so this would all be Frontage if it's greater than 135 I know it's a box it's not a street you have to imagine this is the street lot but this would be the yard and the house is over here somewhere and someone would have to have a survey that that that documents definitively the angle in order to use this uh and if it's less than 135 then it would just be front yard correct yeah they the owner would have to choose right it would be one side or the other one side or the other I hope that was helpful I don't know if that would it was for me I understand it but was also very F where we were um 11 is everybody comfortable with that or to move on with that and if um MOA gets any feedback on that can be we can discuss it February and and quite honestly the most important part of that definition we don't have a definition of lot Frontage right now the most important part is that it's measured as one continuous line Martha for the next Edition can you provide a diagram which would put into the uh rule yeah we haven't um I mean I've been looking at several like there was there was one that I saw going back to the roof height that had a diagram for each of those different things like the different you know the deck line on a manside roof we haven't done that um but I think I agree it would be helpful so we could we could look at trying to insert some diagrams in here yes in this section Martha or others um in this in this section in particular okay that makes sense to me it's very confusing extraordinarily confusing a picture is worth a thousand words yeah no it's it's very it's very hard to visualize some of these things I know it is but once you see them you're like oh du got it okay so that's to be continued guys is that what we where where we went with this yeah that needs a little more work okay all right what's good me and then I think the the last one that really needs some additional clarification is the definition of structure um in looking at more closely the way it was the language that was bold um and underlined was actually several different options for the definition or appeared to [Music] be so um you our original definition is that which is built or constructed excluding ground level driveways and walkways and fences and retaining walls um and then one option which is is separated by or here a combination of materials assembled for occupant or use such as a building Bridge Trestle Tower framework retaining wall tank tunnel tent Stadium reviewing stand platform shelters peers Wars bin fence sign or the like so that would be one definition or another definition would be a combination of materials which may or may not constitute a building that is erected p ped or constructed to form a [Music] configuration and in that case I think the rest of the sent structures include but are not limited to would would Define that second option so I did find a couple of other other definitions this one is from ipswitch any constructed erected or placed material or combination of materials in or upon the ground to give support or shelter including but not limited to buildings mobile homes radio towers shed signs and storage bins swimming pools tennis courts platforms and fences the word structure shall be construed where the context allows as though followed by the words or part thereof um newbur port's definition is a combination of materials which may or may not constitute a building that is erected placed or constructed to form a configuration so what can you remind me at least maybe others why is this why has there been problems with what we've had like where is this relevant to the bylaw um this one to be honest I'm not sure um it was language that was um suggested by by Town Council I think to uh to amplify and clarify our definition it's not something that I've seen the zba struggling with I don't know lar if you've seen them struggling with it or not no I mean is there something specific to a structure that is like who has to name something a structure and it's something that mostly I think the Building Commissioner would deal with like a structure would is something that could require building permit which is why in the previous definition we had excluded driveways and walkways um although F retaining walls actually well they need engineering they or four feet tall so I'm not I'm not really quite sure what the Genesis of this change is so we did have a conversation with the Building Commissioner who pointed to the definition in the building code which is very simplified and apparently it's there's I Dan correct me but there's like a footnote that says in in intentionally um open to interpretation by the building inspector like there's a lack of specificity in order to allow a a Building Commissioner to um interpret it yeah when I spoke to Peter the mass building code was intentionally vague so it's open to interpretation by The Building Commissioner so I I I I'll just share I currently am feeling like this is hard to figure out what's best and in which case maybe we keep it simple but there wasn't a recommendation from The Building Commissioner on this and when you spoke with him did he have um is he comfortable with the building code definition um should we just put that in here I mean he he and I had a brief conversation that he said themselves when they write the building code it's intentionally vague so the building Commissioners can interpret it and again similarly to the other stuff that we've discussed this evening if the board feels like they need a little more time this could be something in February as a minor modification well who came up with this language um this this was in a a draft of of recommended definition revisions from Town Council well no looks to me like Town Council is maybe trying to plug some loopholes yeah I think I think that was the intention can you can you leave things open to interpretation so that's a very subjective thing there's no rule guideline framework correct it's almost like a double- eded sword when you leave it open to interpretation it can be beneficial or it can be non-beneficial right that's why a lot of explanation and definition is sometimes helpful um with you know a caveat of you know some language at the end to say or additional considerations or something as we always try to do when we when we construct things design things I want to stay away from construction designing words so I am comfortable with you know actually I'm comfortable with you know legal I'm always comfortable with legal guidance I think there's a reason that legal guidance is is is recommended because there's usually issues that have occurred and that's why the recommendations made yeah I I agree with you Pete I agree as well so I which one do we like better here's the or I'm almost of the or a combination of materials it kind of follows follows very closely to what Newberry Port has if I heard it correctly is that right Mur yeah I think the these last two sentences a combination of materials which may or may not constitute a building all of that is is pretty much Newberry port's definition let me ask Scott Scott what do you think um you know I I think the you know highlighted in red I I think it's I think it's fine um you know I'm I'm you know I like legal counsel uh keeps me out of trouble um you know keeps the the town out of trouble uh so um I would I'd be okay um either way but uh it's highlighted in red you know it's uh somebody else is using it right and uh it's in new reports uh bylaw so again I'm comfortable which one is Newber reports Martha it's the the last portion of it um so it's after the second or a combination of materials which may or may not constitute a building so the last two sentences of this definition as written so what I have highlighted right now yes yeah we have to choose from what was just highlighted as opposed to what all in read other than to the or yeah because what's all in red appears to be two separate definitions so think that's why Town Council put the or in there how about that how do we like that I'm comfortable with that not entirely up to Pete I mean are you Andor I mean yeah I'm not sure that was an either or either yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah me um I mean I might put an or after retaining walls but other than that if we go with all the languages in red and have that a as a small a but it's redundant because you've got two different definitions of a combination of materials yeah yeah I think you're right it is redundant um I'd be okay with um the the new report um language which is a combination materials which may or may not constitute a building and everything that comes after that yes I'm comfortable with that too which would be the second cor yeah it's fine I mean it's fine so we're deleting the first sentence or adding this to like what do we do with this we keeping that I think that the intention um was to strike that and to replace it with one of those two options I'm content with the second one so all of this gets strike struck well the part that's highlighted in bold right now doesn't exist so the only part that would actually get struck would be portion that reads that which is built or constructed excluding ground level driveways and walkways and retaining walls and fences you don't think we need to make clear the that the ground level driveways and walkways and fences and retaining walls are excluded and the other option is to keep exactly what we have right now again I'm not quite sure why cancel suggested some alternative language well I just was there's nothing like group writing but I just was wondering if we could keep what we have and add or so it's a structure is that which is built or constructed excluding ground level driveways and walkways fences and retaining walls comma or a combination of materials which may or may not constitute building that Ed placed or constructed so it both that would disappear I don't know I know I think we have public attendees waiting to talk about HPP so maybe maybe we can take a straw pole on this and then put it in the category there may be modifications Christian what would you replace the word configuration with because I don't like that word I don't it could be anything I guess that's the point right is there a def definition somewhere or configuration per form a configuration I don't know what that means either you know I don't get it there's the word is wrong I think I think but I don't know if it's is it a legal term line configuration no I don't think so okay I mean it's just common usage in this case whatever the common understanding of the word is it's not a big deal not big dealing good how do you feel about it Larry what do you what do you think Larry or Mary Larry lar um you could leave it all for now okay I mean which [Music] is yeah I suppose it's it Kristen what if you could just um you know cut the a combination of materials assembled you know that paragraph um just so we could take a look at it and and then you know with your change um what was that comma a combination well I'm not sure if we need to strike what we currently have this first part if that's gone then we just the definition is a no I'm not saying strike that I'm just you know I I think if you kept that comma a combination materials um think Mary has the you know an issue with uh configuration um I don't I you know I'm not going to stop the uh the process just for that but I I was just it just start it uh left me cold I don't get it so yeah it is it is kind of a strange word in this in this in this context I'm looking for other some synonyms [Music] um not coming up with a good one assembly um place or place or do we need it I don't know I think if if you all are sort of comfortable with the basic uh definition that we have now and um if we could go back and and think about this one a little bit more as well try to find a um a better word than configuration so we can move forward yep I mean what have up there right now is not bad no cor yeah that which is built to constructed excluding ground level driveways and walkways and fences and retaining walls comma or a combination of materials which may or may not constitute a building that is erected placed or constructed structures include but are not limited to Etc I think that reads that I think it makes sense yeah I just took configuration out Mary what do you think you're asking me or lry Mary oh yeah that's I took your word out I deleted configuration yeah are you good with it I'm not sure what it means that's all so if I don't then maybe some other people don't but I don't understand if this is Larry is this is this written for legal reasons in case there's a controversy yes they're exactly sorry he said he said yes exactly yeah so someone okay got it all right then is built and constructed that which is built to constructed right aren't they the same built and constructed yeah I mean that which is built or constructed is pretty Broad and and they I think they're trying to better Define what what they mean give it a little more specificity sure I think that think that's what's going on here and is that necessary legally sorry well the problem is if something it it it is too I mean you you've got to warn people you've got to warn Property Owners what they can or cannot do right that that's the problem if it's if it's too loose there's an argument that that they're not doing specific you know notifi of U not expressing this very well but I think you see my point yep umk you it's got to be enough definition that people know what the rules are I guess is what I'm saying yeah but now going so far that that you you don't want to you know little picket fence along the front property line to be to be cons uh you know can that would have to for example meet the setback requirements or something like [Music] that well I I I mean I I would say move on with this language and and let's have Town Council take another look at it yeah I think it's you know it's it's passible but it's a little bit uh too open-ended for me are possibilities to interpret one one way or the other instead of being straightforward and easy to understand well we can stick with this one now and that's something we can address in February as a minor modification effort Town Council review correct yeah I I think the important thing right now for public hearing purposes is that people know that that the board is considering an amendment to the definition of structure y right good one okay so Kristen is that it Matha or did you have any more um that was it the only the other only other definition that was added was the one for zoning map which we discussed last time which is really the kind of the the set of maps so that was uh that was it okay so Kristen The Next Step here so we can send this off to the select board is um entertain a motion to vote on all seven War warrant articles is there any need to separate them we can vote on them all there seven foreign articles one vote yeah and um you're reminding me by saying seven something that Martha's probably about to say which is there's also uh it's not drafted yet but there is language that is a housekeeping um housekeeping that needs approval at town meeting and so we're not sure if it'll be bundled into the first general Provisions article or separate warrant article and the content of that is includes um the uh General edits such as changing Selectmen to board of Select uh select board uh changing by hyphen law to bylaw one word um authorizing the planning director to uh establish a table of contents for the zoning bylaw so there are a few things in that category that we don't have a warrant article drafted for yet but there will also be an article for that and Martha chime in if I missed anything important no I think those were the the three really kind of housekeeping things that need to be addressed okay so there might be five so the Slate uh can be voted all together if everyone's comfortable with that um that can be one vote I think yeah so I think the vote could be you know something like um voting to refer all of the proposed amendments um to the select board for referral back for public hearing I'll make that motion and I will second that motion thank you all those all those in favor roll call vote Peter absolutely Larry yes uh Barry indeed yes Scott yes and Steve how do you feel I'm good you're good very good so that will be sent off what you're gonna vote oh yes I vote Yes as well thank you L sorry the chair votes yes okay so that'll be set off the select board and we can make Min of modifications in February if need be based on some C review and other things that already discussed the next thing on the agenda housing production plan 2024 to 2029 final review and vote for adoption um Woody sorry you need another vote to set the public hearing date oh thank you Kristen all right um let's see here so the date that has sorry just a reminder to the board the date that has been set on the schedule that you've all seen um is February 19th y um and that is relative to the timing that's required for um the referral from the select board so your vote should be contingent on the select board referring these articles back to you which is on their agenda for Tuesday um January this next Tuesday January 28th so I think the vote could be um motion to set the public set the planning board public hearing date for the proposed zoning bylaw amendments for February 19th 7:15 p.m. at Via Zoom contingent upon the select board referring the Amendments back to the plan board and I will make that motion to read it do I have a second second all all those in favor roll call vote roll call vote Peter yes Larry yes Mary yes Scott yes and Steve how do you feel I'm still good okay and I vote Yes as well thank you for catching that c sorry now we'll move on to the housing production plan 2024 to 2029 final review and vote for adoption um board members do you have any questions or comments on the housing production plan everyone's had a chance to read read it right I'm seeing a few nods yes yes are there any questions on it does anyone have any questions or comments I just wonder what the letter uh um is it J pal uh didn't you send a letter making suggestions yes he he did and supposed to do anything just read it um that's up to the board and David's on the call so David would you like to speak uh sure can you hear me y yeah okay uh also I'll even appear I think wait a minute let me see if I can do this there we go okay um yeah uh having been through a number of these over the years um I was concerned that essentially the requirements the state has to do this have really very changed very little in the last two three decades and when I reviewed what was in the this particular production plan the first thing that comes to mind is is exactly what I've said at the beginning of of the email that I asked um Christen to send to you all before this meeting and that is that the word production is is essentially I don't know say a misnomer but it's a very unuseful and and poor description of what this is because town in the current economy in which we work do have very little if any control over the production of housing they only have control over the production of housing where they have a Housing Trust or a similar body that actually commissions the building of houses and in the case of Newbury Newbury is like many communities throughout the state um we don't have one okay um or in the case of communities that do have one it is largely toothless um and so that's the first thing to be aware of I think that that that's essentially is is a plan with with no teeth with with no hands with with no tools except the one set of tools that you have worked on and can be worked on which which is to take zoning so that it doesn't actually prevent various kinds of Housing and and in terms of their variety and the accessory dwelling is one of the ones which is uh currently you know the flavor of the month um and makes a lot of sense for our community is a lot of others um there were a couple of other things which which I found disturbing and I know this is a hobby horse of mine but I refuse to give it up and that is that um once again we have a plan which describes this community in a way that is in this case probably the worst description I've seen in quite a long time um there is this continual notion that we are a community of three villages which is just not the case and so I drafted yet another attempt to define or not Define but describe reasonably what you can expect when you come to Newbury because you certainly will not find three villages um you'll be pushed to find one actually anyway um the other thing which was concerning to me was the really quite remarkable um prediction of loss of population I don't know whether any of you followed up on this but the Donahue Institute that produced this information has a very important caval at the beginning of uh their most recent report which has to do with the fact that among other things the federal census that was done in 2020 because of covid has all kinds of issues and problems particular particularly as it relates to projected growth or loss as the case may be and so I felt that it was necessary to point up the fact that including that uh particularly that graph and particularly that uh projection with without any sort of frankly examination as to on what basis it was made um to to talk about it coming from an Institute which is okay reasonably reliable but but not um as they say themselves uh they can't know specifically and they warn in fact that the further you go out the less reliable their um uh numbers are so one of the things I felt was important was the picture that that paints is not addressed in in in the plan in other words it would seem if we're going to Le 27% of our population uh if you figure out how that might happen what's going to happen to the structures which now don't have people in them all right or how is that going to happen what does that mean and there's no discussion of that at all so it seems to me that if you're including that as some kind of basis for looking at what plans that you should make in in the future um there should be a discussion or you shouldn't include it so those were the three I think major things that that I felt um and the final thing is that I have seen this kind this well not this particular one obviously but how production plans arrive at regular intervals in Newbury and with very few exceptions they have resulted in precisely nothing nothing has happened nothing has come out of this at all except recently indirectly yes the change in zoning in terms of accessory Stuff Etc uh but that that came from pressure of other kinds as well and part of it is because we don't have and we don't seem to have well we don't seem to have any expression as a community as to whether we want to have a Housing Trust of some kind and this particularly came once again before the the select board when the 61a is issues of the last couple of things have come up where it's clear that the town has no way and no plan and and no kind of um thought about well what do we do when we have an opportunity perhaps to acquire land either for conservation or importantly for housing well if you don't have a vehicle to do it and if you don't have you know a saving bank account to help to fund that and so those things have been I to my mind anyway totally obvious for the last 30 years and one of the reasons it hasn't happened is because we've had no leadership to do it and I think frankly this board among others needs to exercise that leadership and I think some of these issues began to come up uh in the last what 9 12 months because of the MBTA zoning and there were discussions at that time which indicated that the way in which any Community particularly within the MBTA envelope is now on notice and and as we watch the court cases play out that we're going to have to do something um and doing nothing is I think a just just a deltion of Duty it really is um and I think it uh I I think all of the major boards and groups in the town who would be ultimately concerned with this and bringing this to the community need to start working on it otherwise the housing production plan is essentially a shamera it's it's forget it and it's one of the things that it seems to me has happened too often and that is oh well we have one we've done one we have our fiveyear plan it's okay it's not okay it doesn't do anything unless you have a vehicle that you can use well Martha let me ask you a question doesn't the state have serious uh consequences to a town for not doing what they say they're going to do with the housing um well there couple of different things I mean the MBTA communities is one thing and David was referring to that in the court cases there there are serious commun um consequences for communities that don't don't comply in general I think the housing um it the housing production plan lays out some strategies for increasing housing and affordable housing um which could ultimately help um protect the town against 40 BS coming in but um that's that's really if we if we don't have the 10% affordable housing that we're required to have um then you know that's that's really the consequence right that's what I'm talking about and so it's David this is different because we will be brought to the mat as a town if we do not comply like mil um and we don't want to go through that and we don't need to I think all of us agree that there should be housing for um you know different kinds of people and and and allow those people to live in a nice place and we can have some control over that if we do this isn't that the the idea the stage is going out here so are you asking me no I'm just asking the the group isn't that the purpose of this whole what we're doing all this for is to comply with the state mandate but also to in our hearts in our you know conscious we agree that people need to live somewhere and maybe Newbery doesn't have access have give them access to affordable housing and this I think some of the affordable housing units uh that have been presented are pretty nice well if I may comment the housing production plan actually was dreamed up oh boy uh in the 80s I think maybe if I'm not wrong uh by the state as a what a methodology to determine whether in fact communities were doing something about moving towards the 10% 40b situation because of the fact that back in the 80s there were a lot of court cases involving people um doing for wanting to do 40 BS and communities saying no etc etc etc and so the state came up with the idea that well okay let's provide something which essentially is a kind of thermometer if you like and and and the community can point to and say oh well we have our thermometer and we've hung it up on the wall and right now it you know it indicates that uh it isn't quite hot enough or or however you want to put it cold enough maybe um and it is been used to eventually is that way it's a way of finding out are you even thinking about it um unfortunately it hasn't included are you doing anything about it from my perspective thinking about I think there are consequences I I mean I'm maybe I'm totally wrong guys but anyway I it's kind of uh a little too late because we're we already in the weeds well all my only reason for doing this is frankly because it's an opportunity to raise the whole issue very broadly of Housing and and how we can [Music] change and how if we simply think that accompanying or accomplishing rather the plan and writing it up and passing it that's not doing anything except that and that's what happened for the last 20 30 years so if you want to do that fine I thought this was different I thought this was consequential and state Statewide I don't I don't think we have time for this discussion Dave you know I guys I I think this is a long-term discussion with a big overview and lots of moving parts and we've already been down that road no offense I don't know speak up guys don't let me hang my my head out there get chopped off does anyone else have any comments on this on whether it be Davids or on the housing production plan so I'll just chime in on something on those graphs and projecting what's going to happen to housing and how we're not going to have any population here in 25 years um I don't think that's realistic I think communities continue to stay alive I think as people get older and they move on they sell their homes and young families come in and I think the population base of 6,600 will probably continue in this community as long as there are houses in this community cuz will always be in need for homes so when I was looking at that data I just said to myself okay and I wasn't I wasn't accepting it as what what the true future will be so to that David I am in agreement I find it hard to believe that that's the projection accurate myself but that's what they've that's what they project and I'm it's not 2050 so we'll see what if it true in 2050 is how I felt about it just last thing and then I'll shut up do we I mean we presented this massive problem now can we solve it or is it just out there hanging out I mean there isn't any way right now unless somebody can think about it for us to change well the in my opinion if I may say the big thing we need is a housing authority and we don't have them oh good idea yeah okay and how to go about doing that I I don't know so right um well I mean the plan has an action plan in it which you guys have all seen so I I guess that's our plan is to take action as we've identified the needs in this document um and I do just want to just uh mention for a couple a few of you who have provided comments since the last meeting um the revised housing production plan which I'll forward to David because I know you have not seen it yet it went out in the planning board packet but I it's not on the website yet but it will be on the website um is address some of the same concerns you've raised um mvpc explained the challenges of the donah donaho is it donaho or donu uh data and um we address that somewhat um but it's it's problematic I don't disagree with that but there is more language here talking about how projections are just projections and you know factors can change and again the strategies and actions that are identified towards the end of this document are intended to be uh modified living strategies that adjust to the changes in the data living breathing strategies changing as as they need to change with the times and with the climate environment anyway um what you we to stop the meeting at a certain point we we're doing the hous and production plan we're trying to get through it I let David speak I respect what David had to say in his email um in not knowing that David hadn't seen the latest one I I read it at five o'clock tonight but I I guess what are the wishes of the board with a housing production plan if the board members don't have any um comment or changes to it Iden of motions to move it along and I'm not hearing anything does everybody think there's more work to do I don't know maybe I'm missing Larry what did you want to say something yeah so you you're looking for a motion to what um approve the housing production plan is drafted yes if if there's no comments or questions from the board for any changes to it yes okay well I'll I'll make that motion okay good I'll second that motion okay I'll take a roll call vote uh Peter yes Larry yes Mary yes thanks Scott yes and d uh Steve how do you feel I'm neutral on this one okay I vote Yes as well so that brings us to the next item on the agenda can I I'm sorry to interrupt can I just mention the select board will also be reviewing and voting to uh adopt or approve the housing production plan at their next meeting and they actually will vote to submit it to the state it has to get approved um by um housing and livable communities uh the state agency so just note to all of you if you're interested in attending the select board's discussion of the plan that will be on the 2th thanks and then David thank you for your comments if you can still have yes thanks D thank you listening um Le next item on the agenda leaz on and meeting reports um Larry zba I don't have anything to report they haven't met since our last meeting they're U meeting next th Thursday night on the 30th okay conservation met last night um the there was an interesting discussion public hearing on um lock and Road Dam and the at the on the next agenda there'll be a something on 108 Main Street for extension and tolling they need to extend their permit um and other that was it mvpc Kristen um there were two Regional mvpc meetings in um since the last planning board meeting last week there was a mar MC Valley um housing Summit which Daniel and I both attended on behalf of Newbury um which was a um a panel discussion and a sort of celebration of all the work that all the towns in the region have done on their housing production plans um which mvpc has helped with so there were um there were speakers from the state from hcd um there was um a very renowned um zoning planner named Judy Barrett um who's done a lot of work on housing with and Zoning with communities talking about everything we've been talking about tonight and everything in our housing production plan so it was a great it was a great morning um and there's a lot of effort to help communities move forward on a lot of this work so it's definitely something I would say Dan and I are pretty passionate about helping the town with and look forward to working on all that with you and with the support of mvpc um and then today there was a MV um Mo um Summit and Retreat which is the arm of um transportation planning um and Daniel was able to attend that on behalf of Newbery so some good good work ongoing with mvpc very good and that leads us to play's report I could just follow up again from yeah I was gonna say that's basically it but there was some really good talk in terms of the border to Boston Trails today a lot of communities are still involved in that there was a lot of discussion Mass do came tonight or me this afternoon to discuss the process on how getting projects looked at and reviewed quicker on the tip and things of that nature so it was good it was informative especially for the planning world to kind of get a better sense of what the no is all about so it was good to go thank you Daniel and lastly meeting minutes because everyone had a chance to review the meeting minutes of January 8th 2025 yes yes okay what do you wish is I'll entertain a motion to approve the meeting minutes still moved second roll call vote Pete yes Larry yes Mary yes Scott yes Steve a big yes okay and I vote Yes as well unless anyone has anything else to say entertain a motion to adjourn move to adjourn second all those in favor Pete yes Larry yes uh Mary yes yes Scot yes Steve I yes as well and thank you Matha in the meeting tonight thanks Woody thanks Martha