so uh good evening everybody this is the Newbury zoning board of appeals it's Thursday March 14th 2024 it's 730 and we're here at the Newbury municipal offices 12 Kent way Byfield we have quite a few um applications on the agenda tonight probably twice as many than we usually have so if you're sitting here and waiting and you need to discuss something then please step out and go to the top of the stairs because if you just stand out here we can still hear you so we'd appreciate that um with that let's get started Mario okay uh first on the list uh Brendan Byron and Jillian gasis the applicat are requesting a special uh permit finding for relief of section 9710 d2c detach accessory apartment for the newb zoning bylaws and any other perit Rel as may be required under the town of newb zoning bylaws to allow the proposed use project in order to raise the existing Barn to construct a detach accessory unit to use as an accessory apartment on the property located at 230 High Road Newberry 01951 accessory M r26 lot 16 good evening that's good evening Jill man here on behalf of brenon py and Julian ja jackz I'm trust me I I've been practicing and I still can't do it jackowitz there it is I did that time and the property is at 230 high road I just want to point out that that is the existing home um it is located on 1.63 acre parcel of land um which is actually on the corner of Emory and High Street so people some people know Emery some people don't Emery is basically a paper road that the town had discontinued and has been preserved as a right of way and access for the various people who are but the roadway so it's basically owned to the center line by all people W but and um Brendan Brendan and his wife own I don't know 600 ft down emmer street something like that roughly roughly but that would be the location where this accessory detached apartment would be accessed um so pursuant to your bylaw which permits people to actually construct and or convert certain parts of their property for a detached apartment you know for the purpose of actually allowing these homeowners to generate some income to be able to support properties just like this this house was built in 1910 so you can imagine the amount of upkeep it requires um as you can see they do a very nice job maintaining it the proposed detached structure is very much stylized after the home I think that's called a Dutch Colonial um and as you can see it does model it the particular structure does comply with all of your general and specific requirements you know you have to have 60,000 Square ft in this particular zoning District um the dwelling can't be more than um 1,000 ft or 35% of the home I did detail all of that in your in your package um Brendan and his wife need to certify that there are no restrictions so for example many times there are certain restrictions that carry forward on a property none of the restri there's no restriction on this particular property that carries through and would otherwise prohibit this type of um use of the property um the other things it meets all the dimensional requirements currently there is a garage that sits in the same location where this um detached structure is going to be constructed um but that is going to be raised because it's one of those non-conforming structures it's basically located right on the road now we're pushing back we're going to need all the um the existing and current setbacks one of the other requirements is obviously you have to make sure that this particular um new dwelling isn't going to interfere with the with the lifestyle and use of the existing primary structure and it doesn't it has its own access it has its own parking area it doesn't require traversing over um you know Brendan and his wife and his little girl's home it's all very separate and that's actually an advantage to both users of the property um and all of the other requirements we did just go through and explain how it met those particular requirements essentially you know that the Architects consonant you architectures consonant and you can see that um that the septic system is able to handle it it's a six-bedroom septic system it's a current four bedroom home and it's a one-bedroom um apartment so we actually need all of those things there's already obviously utilities because it's an existing habitable home so they're going to extend the utilities from the home over and it'll be on the same services so all of those requirements are met and at this point um Brendan who is an engineer can answer any of your questions relative to the property if you have a question for me relative to the title or any of the submittals we would love to answer them for you thank you thank you I have nothing to add just happy to answer questions all right covered Bo have any questions at this time in review there's some questions regarding the road access yeah so I understand somebody had you know everybody gets concerned when you have these private easement rights and I actually did include in your package a copy of the plan and a copy of the um what's called an indenture um that is how the road by the primary owner originally way back when in 1913 had owned the property and then there were all these people who abutted the property and what they this person did was reserve and Grant so that that road Emory is a legitimate right of way and it is subject to the town abandoning which is why in your package that I gave to you I highlighted where the town actually abandoned Emory which meant it's just simply a private access way only for those people who AB but it and that Brendan and his wife and all of the other people who AB but that way actually own to the center and have what they call non-exclusive easement rights that are pertinent to their property so all that means is is no matter how how many times Brennon sells the property that property carries with it the right always to use Emy in you know in common with the other users but none of the other users can block each other so and that's all in the package um I I think somebody raised I don't remember what the actual it was a question yeah it was just a question so that that is the answer and I did provide the backup to my opinion and will they be able to use the driveway from uh High Road also um you go ahead so the intent is to basically separate the proposed carage as I can f bit over so we have that driveway that connects from our main access point we have two driveways off the high road this driveway that currently goes from here to the existing Barn structure our intent is to remove that connection point and solely use this as a way to really isolate the what we're calling the Carriage House area and have it be an exclusive little area for whoever may be living there so it's not like we are sharing the primary driveway entrance of our home where we have the rights to use Emory Street we felt that was the best approach to access the carage house thank you I have a couple questions uh there's some confusion as to uh number of bedrooms on the existing yeah and that was so on the you originally got it says six-bedroom house it was supposed to be six-bedroom septic and he just put it on the house the house is truly a four bedroom house it is not a six-bedroom house um the Assessor's record shows it is for you know it's not it's only 3,000 something square feet it's a it's a four bedroom well these man and man people are you with them yes I was the one resubmitted showing you that it is actually a four bedroom house with a six-bedroom septic what happened was this why why does it say in footnote number one the plan was intended to reference the primary home as a five bedroomroom home oh that was that's a mistake five bedroom so we got four five and six I one all right let's go with it's a four it's a four bedroom home this is this will be one additional bedroom six bedroom septic what happened was this is record plans um record information from when the septic was updated back in 2016 so there's notes basically saying hey we're doing a six a six-bedroom septic we can do six bedrooms in this house and it was a carryover simple mistake there's only four bedrooms this four bedrooms six bedom okay thank you and and one other question in this drawing might help us on the lot setbacks where's the 14t one it says we got the side a is zero front is 14 ft and 162 and then 17 ft so the 14t is the existing dwelling that was I what I listed on the application was the minimum setback on the property the actual setback to the existing primary residence is 4 ft on high road the setback technically the front setback of the carriage house from high road is about 135t right I saw that I measured at 134 um and uh but the rest of it so so do we have the setback somewhere maybe I'm just not seeing where are for the existing one for the excuse me for the Carriage House the carriage house I have basically what I did was I offset the property lines 20 ft so this dash line here is a 20 foot setback okay and we pulled the distant bar you can see is down here which is basically Z set back to emry street now so we pulled it back to be compliant 20 ft all around and it's tucked up in that corner of the property so we're conforming all the way around we yeah we're completely conforming all the way around okay thank you do you have a utility plan not yet I know we have to find a way to get water electric over there septic connection will be fairly easy the great obviously it's not really shown in this plan there's a great change of probably three and a half four feet from where our existing septic tank is to where the Carriage House so gravity will likely be able to utilize to get down to the tank and then the Water and Electric is just finding the easiest point of access to get across it has to come from the house from the house correct y any other good so what's the overall square footage on the overall interior square footage you have 3,200 of the carriage house or the primary 9 9 952 ft is the interior for the Carriage House in 3,275 is for the primary home great thank you you're very welcome so this time is there anyone that would like to speak for seeing no hands is there anyone here that would like to speak against all right seeing No Hands um I do have one comment and and basically a a concern and that the accessory apartments in all accessory apartments that we've had have some relationship and share that with the primary house and the way the zoning is written in terms of the attachment of Utilities in terms of the size it it isn't exactly stated but I believe the intent is that we're not looking for people to create accessory apartments and then block them off through to a separate living space on the property that that in terms of allowing this to happen the accessory apartment within somebody's dwelling unit has obviously some control to it and then on a property the detached typically has a relationship to the primary dwelling of of which the primary occupants that are required to live in either one of the units has some control and ownership and overview of of this accessory apartment that they are now building and allowing other people to be on so to have access and no access from your driveway to the unit um seems kind of troubling to me because you don't want somebody to create a unit and then you rent it out put up some trees and it's basically its own house and you you have no overview or oversight to the the accessory apartment that's on your property so I think one one aspect of the driveway removal to not necessarily promote this being used by the occupant over in the corner is we do have a young child and if people that we don't know everyone's schedule that's going to be living here so if people are coming in this way and our daughter happens to be out there that's kind of a risk for us in that regard our intent isn't necessarily to build this house and then put a 40t wall of trees around it and completely isolated it's more to provide whoever is living there the sense of you have your own space and we're not on top of each other and we would still absolutely take ownership of it we walk we walk right by it every day to walk the dogs out back and I don't see that changing going forward and because we do have to connect all utilities through there we would never be putting up trees and we do want to be able to or brenon and his wife do want to be able to visualize because it's still on their property they just simply wanted vehicular access to be separated I understand but I'm saying it's a concern of of mine that in terms of allowing an accessory apartment and then separating the use of of the driveway to the property even if if Emory Street is there is is the is the lack of of control for that apartment and the accessory apartment runs with with the owner for the special permit that's given and should the house be sold and I don't know if issues arise it's not like once the special permit is given it it runs with the house and the land nope it does not so because you have to sign the all of those certifications I mean they absolutely do recognize that um this just happened to be the ideal location to place the structure and the requirement is that you have completely separate parking areas and you allow for two independent um you know two independent parking areas so that's why we thought that this was kind of more in keeping with what the board desired because it's you know it definitely has the same style of architecture and it is intended and is part of the property and I as an architect I'd argue that you're making a house and and putting so much effort into the style that the two would go hand inand and have some relationship to each other but that's neither here nor there um I mean that that's just what I'm seeing and that's what the and I think the intent and what we've for all the accessory apartments that we've reviewed uh and for people that have concerns uh your site plan doesn't show any adjacent dwellings are there houses on em opposite Emmery Street or what's the next closest house and so the next closest house is it's actually not a house it's a noble Port uh Builders they're on the corner of Emer Street on high road they're about 130 ft away the next closest house to us is the butter on the back um she's approximately 400 500 feet away from the structure um and then directly across is just vacant Farmland um and the about 300 ft away is the first settlers aerial ground in that area so that's the that's the area that we're working in is there any intent to have a a patio or paved area or anything like that outside of this accessory apartment I ideally we would do something off the backside um we're trying to limit the work in front front trying to keep that as a landscape buffer to the roadway as there is no buffer now so we figured that would be an improvement to this street right now because as of right now like I said it's the barn is the edge of the table the road is not around the table um so for me I I would like to see the complete package of utility plan proving out how the utilities are getting there if you intend any future patio and I think we'd like to see that on the plan and if there's any lights or anything that would like that P patio then we'd like to see that now on the plan and not have stuff added and added and added again um because the sensity of accessory apartments and other people to your neighbors um and again the the the distance and and the separation from the house um is troubling me in terms of what I feel the intent is but like you know for me to understand this uh I'd like to see a little bit more proving out of what the full intent is we um if if um if an access apartment was approved then the site plan and the building plan would get filed as part of the deed to understand what everybody that wants to look at or understand what happened here document that and um and that's it and I assume do you do deed restrictions too you know you have deed restrictions typically with when you have septic systems I didn't know you you have like you're supposed to provide certifications but there's no deed restrictions I thought that was a little we have conditions of a decision and Y that's kind of why I'm asking for it all to be documented because we'd like to see it as it's planed to totally exist and not not grow over time not change over time not add a in an out attached patio and lights and a fire pit and things like that and those are all things that happen but there're all things that then add to the success of your apartment and we're we're trying to be you know respectful to your rights but also respectful to all the other neighbors that might be um it's that's I think a path forward might be does the board have any other comments or questions along that line or concerns or yeah with your thoughts okay so basically I just want to make sure so basically you want us to come back and we'll submit a new plan showing a locust plan which would be you know we'll give you a traditional with 1,00 ft showing you all structures that are around we'll give you the uses we'll show you all that and then also basically just to show the full extent of what we're going to do if we're proposing to do something in back show it now cuz that's what the rule is cuz once I do it that's all you're allowed for your accessory show it and then also do a utility plan showing you how we're going to actually connect cuz that's how it has to be we're not allowed a separate connection show the connection for the water show the colle connection for the electric and then show the connection for the septic yes yes absolutely and lighting I apolog and lighting I'm sorry yes and show any house lighting and I'm assuming we're going to have none cuz it's pure residential use but if they choose to put one on the house or you how you'll do it in the starts of driveways we'll show that for you okay great you have any other questions good does the board have any concerns with with what is going to be presented either as a condition or as a continu the wait to see what is presented in order to move forward yeah no and on those notes I like the original submitt the way it spelled it out step by step like a checklist that covered so we didn't have to spend 25 minutes going over each one of the things yeah I think that was you guys talk about that for future future accessory apartment just easier to do right checkl yes so is there a a motion maybe to draft draft favorable this um I'll make a motion to continue the meeting so to have more uh additional information uh regarding the utility plan um lighting plan and um Focus yeah Focus do you want to make a motion favorable motion draft something so that we have the condition of what you just said make a motion yeah make a motion to draft a favorable decision um based on the criteria we listed below all right so we will um start the process of drafting a decision we are going to keep the public hearing open because more documentation is going to be submitted okay we are uh going to continue this to next month's regularly scheduled board hearing meeting at 7:30 right here okay um date 14 April 14th thank you ail 18 4 418 um a second I'll Sor I'll second the convoluted motion so um so I'm just explaining everything that happens um and then at that time with the information receive because the meeting is open we will we will open we will hear we will discuss we will finalize a a vote and in process of time we will have a decision drafted to help move things along so um that's where we stand thank you there a second to that motion second all right thank you all those in favor all Jack I thank you thank you very much appreciate good luck with tonight's event y we see you on April 8 next one Are all uh Michael edel Caitlyn Mahan 36 Northern Boulevard the applicants are requesting a special permit finding for relief of section 9740 d uh 5 C02 upward exension of the Newber Z zoning bylaws and any other permit as may be required under the town of Newber zoning bylaws to allow the proposed use projects in order to raise the existing dwelling construct a new single family dwelling in its place on a property located at 36 Northern Boulevard Newberry Mass 01 951 accessory 03 lot 195 all right good evening the applicant here yes Mr chairman good evening uh Mr chairman members of the board for the record uh Douglas desan uh representing um Caitlyn monan and Michael etel who are here this morning this evening with me in the front row also with us uh Eileen graph from graph Architects uh sitting in the front row with us as well um I did present I do did put together a small um PowerPoint presentation and I have provided you guys a a copy just in case you know you can't see the numbers from your seat so um if I could jump down to the next oops oops sorry about that no worries uh again uh Douglas Des Shane with f Nicholson uh Caitlyn and Michael are here ever Chandler is our engineer he is not with us this evening and but uh I is uh next slide please mother thank you so to give you a quick project summary my clients are seeking to raise the existing pre-existing non-conforming dwelling and to construct a new home in its place uh as uh we were informed by uh the building inspector uh construction of the new structure requires a special permit finding under the new zoning bylaw section 974 D5 C02 for an upward extension um because we are raising the height of the roof uh the proposed structure will eliminate the existing side yard setback non-conformity it will reduce the existing front yard nonconformity and will actually significantly reduce the existing nonconforming F which is at 31.1% currently and we're actually reducing the far uh down to 26% so a little unusual uh at least in terms of my experience that uh folks are looking to uh reduce uh F and bring it closer to Conformity uh but I'm happy to report uh that is the case with this project um next slide please thank you uh with respect to those pre-existing non-conforming conditions uh the lot itself is pre-existing non-conforming it contains uh 6951 square feet whereas we know 40,000 is required under the current bylaws Frontage is at 9 9.55 ft which is uh below the 125 ft requirement the structure as I mentioned is pre-existing non-conforming in three respects the front yard setback is at 9.4 the side yard setback is actually encroaching the building on that side is actually encroaching onto the neighboring property by 4 and 1/2 ft and uh we're going to be pulling that back um to meet the 10t requirement uh and the far as I said is currently a 31 .1% with a 25% requirement we got the next slide please um so to give you a a little perspective this is the front of the home uh at 36 Northern Boulevard looking from across the street um you will notice that the left side uh there is another home behind this home essentially sits between this home and the and the beach uh so that is in back um next slide uh gives you a picture of our neighbor to the right and then you can see there is quite a bit of distance before the the next home down uh quick how does the house behind access is it on the right side yes that same driveway and is that an easement with the property on the right it's actually a street it is actually a street so your house is in the street right now okay thank you well again that I misspoke it's approaching in the street by the right way um and then the next picture is uh uh looking to the left um as you can see um there's quite excuse me councelor can we go back a little just just the I think I I drove by there so this marked on the plan here where it says Gravel Drive we're now saying that's a street it's not a gravel drive is am I looking at the correct side it looks like the only right away see correct there's the picture that's correct Gravel Drive the street okay does the gravel drive existing but if you look at the the marks on this drawing Jack where it says Gravel drive the street is actually to the left but the house is sitting in the street so the gravel drive is pushing to the right ah very good thank you okay thank you for that [Music] clation 11 this um this picture is again looking to the uh left of our home you can see that the you can again see a corner of that house that's technically behind uh 36 but that house to the left is um 40 um and you can see there's quite a bit of space and topography between our neighbors to the left and our property and then um I sort of spun around and uh I'm standing in in front of the house these are the two homes directly across the street behind us and then the last picture is the the three houses behind us to the left so you've gotten a sort of a 360 view of the houses that uh surround the property um with respect to the the houses on the the beach side our direct Neighbors on either side there is some uh significant amount of room between the structures so uh and with the movement of the house will be creating more distance from that street right away and the neighbor to to the right um if we could go to the next picture that is a a picture of the house to the rear and you can see to the bottom right of that um picture that's where that gravel accessway right away comes up and so that's how the house behind us accesses and uh and there's parking right there uh for that home um nothing we're doing will have any impact whatsoever on that RightWay or people's ability to move in fact we're moving the house out of it so it'll it'll make it more open um again we're proposing to tear down the existing house in its entirety and construct a new single family home the lot as I said is pre-existing as to area in Frontage but we are not proposing any changes to the physical size and width of the lot uh the proposed structure will eliminate that existing side yard setback um from uh make -4.5 to um over 17 ft uh the front yard non-conformity is it currently at 9.4 we're going to increase or decrease the non-conformity by increasing the setback uh by about a foot or a foot and then as I said interestingly uh we are reducing the F from its current 31.1% to uh down to 26% um otherwise the proposed structure will meet all other applicable dimensional requirements in terms of the other setbacks slot coverage height and all of the other dimensional requirements uh the reason the finding is required as I said earlier is that the height of the new height house will exceed the height of the existing structure which is 21 ft um we are seeking to go to 32 ft5 ft 32.5 which will be below the 35 ft height limit limitation um I guess I'll jump over to this um to the site plan as you can see uh the photo on the left is the existing conditions um and on the right is the proposed you can see that technically we are you know trying to move the lot towards the house towards the middle of the lot um we've tried to push it back um um a little bit get it off the street um but as you notice from the pictures we are dealing with topography uh in such that it the the property rises in the back uh so to push it back any further and we really don't have a lot of room to push it back before we would start to um you know not be in Conformity with your rear yard setback but um we would have to be digging into that Dune and uh we're not uh we have to be very careful about uh requests to dig into the Dune and push the house back any further but we do feel we've made every effort to get it uh back farther than it it was um I I have uh as you know on that chart is uh on the plan as a chart of the zoning table I I you know if the board has any questions about the site plan I you know certainly entertain those now before we move into uh you know more um architectural presentation yes so um thank you for the explanation the uh the rear yard setback at 21.9 is to the corner of the stair at grade that brings you up to the proposed deck and then you have proposed generator hung on a platform so you got plenty of room but you're hanging something off the building that physical and it's covering the ground I would think if we just modify the application from 21.9 to 19.1 or okay oh you mean you you feel that the the the hanging structure is where we should be measuring from yes oh we're happy to put that distance on there it's manmade it's physical it's it's as as physical as a stair or or a porch that would so okay we would be happy to do that and as I think you point out we'll still be conforming yep and then on the building elevations and we have the site plan but the site plan does not have any grades on it it looks like the mean grade is used in the proposed height but there's nothing that sort of documents it as to the elevation of the high point the elevation of the low point and the easy maap that shows the average on the site plan well if it was on the site plan I could read elevations and grades and I could make an interpretation if it's on the elevations that you've provided I could do the math sure somewhere I think we just need some documentation to prove out that you're using the mean Building height and at 32.5 you're not pushing up at you know 34 11 and 3/4 and MH you know someone could complain or someone could physically go out there and measure it you could be in trouble because something wasn't exactly accurate so for the record I think we just need to figure out how to document that okay um if I could could I go to the to the Matrix it actually does if I could speak for the first point you have which was the rear it does call out the 19.1 for the rear on The Matrix the application says 21.9 oh so again if we just take an application we change it and initial it we could understand that that's uh corrected I had a question on that too it struck me at the time it's not it's not a problem it's just curiosity it says proposed generator on hung platform are we talking about camping it off the underside of the de or or is it on stilts or how's it hanging because it has to um so it's I'm aware it has to be up in the air but how how that physically happen so often we use bracket system or or something of the sort to P off a structure um it might be bracketed uh or hung depending on how they DET from the side of the de thank you in order to minimize more structure the ground that was curious thank you okay well with that um I would like to move on to the architectural plans and uh um ien will come up and give you a quick overview of that thank you Doug um so I will just um touch slightly on the on the architectural changes as you can see in this drawing here this is the existing structure um to note how the uh generally speaking how the f is at 31.1 it's essentially right now three stories um while not that tall in each story but but the ground level is um functions as as you know as part of the structure um and so therefore that's how um it uh it gets that much in f um but as you can see it's you know a a structure like many on pal Island that is evolved over time but there are certainly uh lots of things that need um a little attention um and actually one thing I do want to point out which will be helpful in this drawing is there's a retaining wall um that we are trying to work with here um uh Caitlyn and and Michael have gotten an RDA on that uh two years ago two years ago which they have what they got approved for we have they have not continue through with it because they knew there was going to be design work on the house so we are submitting for an NL IE for for this work as shown but that retaining wall came into play with a lot of this design um partly why we couldn't fully pull this house to full Conformity is that we need to access or connect with our stair into the house and therefore it was keeping it a little closer to the street so um so that's something you could see on the top right drawing you could see in the dark heavy line at the grade and that's depicting where the retaining wall is uh currently and that condition allows for that parking that's on the street side so if we can go to the next the parking is off of Northern Boulevard or is it off of 11th Street it's off of Northern Boulevard and there is um a currently um parking up top as well so you you will pull up to the retaining wall but not under the structure of the park because it's narrow that garage is narrow so it's primar Structure Parking is in front of the retaining wall okay and then there'll be additional parking around the back no that actually gets taken away and so while it's there now it's um it's something that will be removed from the water side okay okay so here they are on floor plans and here you can see in the bottom left drawing just um what the chair has been referencing is there is a garage Bay there but it's very tight space so um but what you can see the bottom left is the staircase currently coming up from that parking area so generally speaking we're recreating that same type of uh vertical transition but with the building shifted inward on the lot so the next side please and here it is uh with a new structure um on piles um this is happening behind that retaining wall um while the um as reference we are improving the front setback um from uh on paper it's it's showing as one foot back but it's even more than that because the one foot goes to the end of the staircase as as that counts as part of the structure but technically the front face of the building is another 9 ft back so it's really an improvement of 10 ft of moving the structure further back from Northern Boulevard you can see uh this is the left side is facing Northern Boulevard and the right side drawing is facing to the Northwest next slide please and then the left drawing here is uh what faces the ocean side and then the right drawing this would be uh the feel as you're going up that street 11th Street to the right of the property and here you could see the significant change um from front to back on the property and floor plans associated with it again to just to orient you the staircase on the left and if you look back to the site plan that's that runs alongside of the retaining wall that has um that exists and that's how we connect um and enter the building on the next slide please on the second floor where existing three uh three-bedroom home and we're continuing with that um as you can see in the three bedrooms on the second floor plan and with that I will okay pass it back to J unless I have any questions oh if there are any questions at the moment but happy to answer um so with respect to our basis for requesting this uh special permit finding um as I've outlined here uh certainly the Reconstruction of this existing dwelling will not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood or to The Plum Island OVA district there are in fact I believe a number of benefits um we are eliminating oror reducing the existing non-conformities and I I I do want to thank um Eileen for pointing out that um you know I mentioned we're moving the the front back of a foot uh but again as she pointed out that's to the stair but if you look at the face of the structure itself uh we are actually moving it back uh significantly more close to 9 ft back so um you know the face of the building will actually appear instead of being uh 9.4 ft off uh closer to 19 almost meeting but we have to measure from those stairs that happen to point out to the to the road so um it's a little deceiving my one foot Improvement um we're certainly not exasperating or creating any new non-conformities at all uh the proposed alteration and the increase in the height is consistent with the neighborhood and in the PID in general if you notice from the pictures I provided um most of the structures around us um appear to be you know 2 and 1/2 some three stories in height there are some homes that are uh two stories clearly two stories but they tend to be on the opposite side of the street Street um the proposed structure as I uh as we've shown in in putting it on pilings is going to meet flood and dune requirements by allowing you know flood waters to to move under the structure but also to allow movement of sand that is uh a very important um impact so uh the new structure will certainly have less impact environmental impacts on the Dune um which certainly is uh very important um the post structure will not really impact anyone's views or cause shadowing to the adjacent buildings as I showed you our neighbors on either side are quite a distance away uh and the the structure behind us is um uh it would be casting Shadows on us as opposed to the opposite as far as the houses across the street um most of those are two stories so they're looking into this house anyways you know the small reduction in height we're proposing is not going to block off anyone's views uh across the street whatsoever um if they have views now they will remain uh but the ones directly across the street are looking into our building anyway so we're not impacting Shadows or um Jason buildings um certainly I feel this is an improved uh Aesthetics for the property it'll it's going to increase the value of the property and therefore increase the value of surrounding areas uh resulting in increased tax revenue for the town um the other thing that's important to note is that my clients have in fact reached out uh to all of their director Butters uh I believe two of our Butters have actually submitted um letters of support yes they have including the two side neighbors um and the other neighbors um were very supportive uh none of them had any issues or questions um and so we have no uh We've identified no issues with the neighbors and again my clients were nice enough to reach out to all of them let them know what they were doing and um had very good results I think there was one about butter uh that's uh doesn't live on the property and is out of state um and they did reach out to them twice with no response so we can only assume um they have no real concerns with what we're doing uh because they didn't get back to us um so with that um in conclusion uh certainly this project will increase the functionality and sustainability of the home um the reconstructed home will not create new non-conformities or exasperate any existing non-conformities but in fact as I've probably said too many times will be eliminating and reducing non-conformities Project's going to provide benefits to the neighborhood and the plum Community by improving the Aesthetics reducing environmental impacts of the structure on the beach um and increasing property values and just making not only this property a a better situation but the surrounding neighborhood so we would certainly uh request your consideration in uh granting the finding requested happy to answer any questions that you might have um I know uh Mr chairman you uh mentioned that um you would like to see us add um the justification or the proof of the elevations um we're happy to do that certainly if that's a a condition um we're more than happy to meet that I know uh Mr um uh Chandler you know he he stamped these I know he did the work but I do agree with you we should have put it on the plan and I'll make sure that happens so with that thank you thank you very much board have any comments Mario Michelle Jack the only question I have is what's this gray halfway shown on the new plane that's at the the uh beach side of the house yeah um it's a patio to the it's a St so 11 Street would be the beach access is that's what's happening here yes ready no questions is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak in favor no hands is there anybody in the a audience that would like to speak against is it possible just to ask a question you may ask a question please state your name and address sure Melissa Mashburn 614th Street uh my husband Tom be and I have lived on Plum Island since 1999 I guess my only question and welcome to the neighborhood um is to what extent having sat through a lot of the meetings and a lot of the thought that went into um voting in The Plum Island overlay district and having voted it in um to what extent do these sorts of proposals and I believe Mr desan will also be speaking to a similar situation with the adjoining property um The Cottage currently named Beth me um to what extent does sort of raising driving pilings certainly there are environmental benefits but as we all know Plum Island is filled with non-conforming structures that's why we have the Plum Island overlay District um has this set a precedent for further development on the island and what other Hoops will these lovely new people have to jump through in the town in order to bring their plants to poition so the two things for the Plum Island thank you for your question for the Plum Island over overlay was to control um density as it relates to putting in a sewer system and then not having development checked to a certain degree as to over power the system that they just put in and since it was a joint system with Newbery and Newberry Port then there were controls in terms of um D dimensional requirements on the properties um there are lots of Rights for homeowners that have homes nobody's taking away any rights and if you have something that's existing even if it looks ugly and even if it's over the lot line you can't quite go if it's uh pre-existing non-conforming and enforce something happen so the metrics of the uh piod have several conditions uh a lot on use and then the dimensional requirements and to control and improve the neighborhood going forward each each property is looked at unto its own and it is compared then to the immediate adjacent neighborhood for the improvements if you happen to live in a part of Newberry that is is dense or a little bit crowded and your house is existing and you would like to build the house in a similar fashion um there might be a little bit more leeway in terms of of matching the existing I think we always look for improvements on all fronts or as many fronts as possible and if we deem that those um improvements are not um are minimal or minial or not in the right direction or the the um existing conditions and non- improvements actually then cause an exacerbation of conditions height um typically in Mass then then we find issues with it so there are some houses that you would drive down and you would look at the house and you say like wow that doesn't have the setbacks it doesn't have the yard setbacks but it actually was a big Improvement to what was previously there it is in a sense equal to its all its adjacent neighbors and it was pre-existing is that and so there the the rights that they had are the rights that they maintained and it's within balance of of the neighborhood um this house is obviously in the street it's being moved back it's meeting all the conditions it's reducing the the the um mass of the building in terms of the f um there are conditions of the front setback in which it's allowed to encroach um or be less than the 20 ft required if a nearing nearing nearer lot line is established with the adjacent buildings so in this case and I drew a line on the drawing if you look at the two buildings we don't want a street that has a wild saw too effect to it we'd rather have things in alignment for the consistency of of of just the the the um consistency of the neighborhood so that there are within and behind the adjacent lot line of the two existing buildings they are moving the building back they are moving the building over the fact that the building is not on 11th Street and people can access 11th Street and it is actually improving and opening up access the fact that the house is being aligned with the house behind um is is less detrimental to the people across the street because they actually have their view improved so there there lots of pluses here and the controls um in going to the piod is what you have for existing whether you're altering the existing whether you're raising the ex existing or whether there was a catastrophe that forced your hand in which to do something there's there's different sections they're all fairly similar but they are different um and that's how we have guidance to and and good Architects understand that make a favorable condition um you know people that try to maximize and then get a little bit more um is not seen as as favorable in terms of um setting a precedent or um being the biggest of the neighborhood so that those have been um not successful or not as Suess successful in the past so longwinded I hope I answered your question helpful good conment thank you okay so the board have any comments we just went through it I kind of went through it I don't have any issues and I think this is in my opinion quite favorable because it does move it off um the lot lines that is set back from the street and it's less detrimental than it previously was and it's positioned more in the center of the lot which is great if the application just needs a slight tweak and if um conditional um the the elevations of building could add just to prove out that the mean height of of the average grade is used in terms of determining the height and they're not pushing up against it so I can't see that there would be any issue there that's that's my let's make a motion all right um I'll make a motion to draft a favorable decision uh based on correcting the uh rear setback on the application and uh additional information related to elevation of the main building height great discussion on that or anything to add good project I like it good there second take that as a second second all those in favor I thank you you very much for your time draft the decision uh again we will keep the public hearing open because you will be submitting a new document to us um if you can get it to us sooner that would just make our discussion all the more quicker when we see you again so um so we will in away and in force um continue the hearing to April 18th 14 April 18 18 um right here at Town Hall at 7:30 thank you thank you very much all right you ready next our neighbor uh okay David uh Tumi manager 40 Northern Boulevard LLC uh the applicant is requesting a special permit finding for relief of section 97- 45 C02 upward extension of the Newber zoning bylaws and any other permanent relief as may be required under the town of newbry zoning bylaws to allow the propos use project in order to raise the existing dwelling construct a new single common dwelling in its place on the property located at 40 40 Northern Boulevard Newbery Mass 01951 accessories M u03 Lot 19 all right's the applicant here yes Mr chairman members of the board good evening sorry here I I I guess I have a quick question before I begin you know I I generally bring you a copy of the slides do you find them helpful or can you read you know sometimes we have a failure of audio visual all right I I just didn't want to waste paper if it you didn't think it was necessary but I have no trouble doing it you know with my eyes I I need it this close so I would agree that if um it's smooth sailing you wouldn't have to do it but if you ran into some rough quars and someone else um Wanted the information would be at hand great um I think it's a necessary even well good evening Mr chairman members of the board again um for the record Douglas desan from fer and Nicholson uh representing the applicant uh 40 Northern Boulevard LLC uh Daniel uh Tumi uh is the manager Daniel uh is here with me this evening uh along with his mother um and um again uh ever Chandler is our engineer 's not with us tonight but Eileen graph from graph Architects is here as our architect um again to give you a a project summary um Mr Tomy is Seeking a special permit finding to tear down his pre-existing non-conforming structure construction construct the new home um he will not be creating any new non-conformities he will not be exasperating any new non-conformities however uh he will be actually reducing the loan uh existing a pre-existing structural non-conformity so an effort's been made to uh to reduce the only uh structural non-conformity uh and again as was uh the case previously because we are increasing the height uh upward extension uh Mr benett has said that we need a special permit finding from this board under 97- 4D 52 to give you a understanding of the existing conditions uh the lot itself is pre-existing non-conforming it currently has an area of 21, 21 Square fet so one of the biggest Lots um that I've had the pleasure of working with on Plum Island uh but it still does not meet the 40,000 foot requirement uh Frontage on the lot is 80 ft uh whereas 125 ft is required so again a pre-existing n lot as I said earlier the structure uh actually only contained one uh pre-existing non-conformity and that is that the front setback is at currently at 11.3 FT uh otherwise the structure is in Conformity with all other dimensional requirements so mother please um here is a picture of the structure uh you can see from the from uh Northern Boulevard looking straight at the structure um and and then uh the next slide gives you a view to the right so you can see the garage that was in the first picture and uh interestingly enough the home to the to the right is 36 uh Northern which we were just discussing and you can see the house uh that sits behind 36 Northern there is no structure behind uh 40 uh Northern um the next uh picture gives you a view to the left of um a 40 Northern uh you can see we have a um a structure uh to the left they too have a a small garage space um but um they are one of the taller uh buildings uh in the area um and then across the street um we've got uh these two structures uh looking across the street sort of to the left and the next picture is looking across the street to the right so those are the four houses across the street you'll see they range from a probably one and half story to a a two and a half story um if we could slide on so our proposed structure um again they're proposing to tear down the existing structure in its entirety and replace it with a new single family home uh the lot is pre-existing non-forming as I discussed and we are not proposing any changes to the lot the structure it will um the proposed structure will slightly reduce the pre-existing isting non-conforming front setback by uh you know. 3 ft um otherwise it was in full conformance with all dimensional requirements setbacks loot coverage F and height requirements uh in this situation we're going from a existing structure height of 21.2 ft to 33.7 Ft but again less less than um the 35 ft requirement um the next plan is the site plan as you can see um we are again uh looking to uh Center the project onto the to the lot somewhat uh we're eliminating uh that garage structure that you saw to the right it's depicted on the picture to the left um and in doing so um again we are increasing that front setback by quite a bit but I think um if you look at the design of the new home on that that side um where we're um where we're there's actually a jog in the face of the building um and we're measuring the distance to the front of the stairs again that Center stairs uh but the reality is that the J the front of the building is going to jog and maybe uh ien will give you a little more information on that but what I'm trying to say is that we're taking a building that's you know currently 11 ft off at its closest face to point and we're actually um you know pushing it back and and IR regulating the the front so it jogs so I think that will give an appearance that the the building's not as close to the street as it is it will give some relief to that physical look but in any event we are slightly improving the existing um situation um as as again I I have to say uh and one of the other things you know is uh that controls uh Redevelopment in the piod is certainly the Conservation Commission and the impacts that you're having on dunes and and the sand Associated sand so um while it may seem an easy task to move a building back um you're moving it close closer to the ocean and deeper into the Dune and and that is certainly Fred upon by conservation and uh D so um we're trying to balance those uh concerns um I with that um I guess I'll again Ask uh I to come up and give you a probably a better understanding of what I was trying to explain about the front of the building thanks okay so I think in essence um this is the existing structure but what but what I want to convey most is that the existing condition is the collection of buildings we've got uh the garage structure as you saw in the photograph less visible in some of the photographs there's a shed behind the garage on the right and then the actual structure as you see in those drawings so it's really sort of a cluster of of different elevations of different forms Etc um a little bit of a nightmare in the middle in a practical sense as far as grade and and such coming coming and going from the house is really sort of um you know a difficult thing given as you look at the grade change and you're literally going between those buildings up to the front door so it it's it's one of the things we really want to work on um with this new building so by by raising this structure as you see here and creating one cohesive building building um so if we can um slide um this is the existing plan demonstrating how it exists today uh four bedrooms very clean um actually kind of um admirable these four four bedrooms up top um um in the way people used to summer out there um but nonetheless um needing a little more room to meet modern day needs um so if we slide to the next um this is uh the the the the proposed structure um split up into two floors with the um ground level providing two parking spots below and then as mentioned Doug and mentioned the center stair going in um is is that's the point in which on the site plan was given the U front set back line but really the building itself is a is approximately 3 ft back from that first first Riser of the stair um but more more important on this drawing to me is actually this sort of negotiating the vertical change so um the drawing to the left is a section through the middle of the building trying to show how we're going to enter the building and then um how it relates to the water side which is the higher grade so um which is which is the living spaces so um we go one more slide and we can work our way around the building so the left drawing is the side uh on the on the um uh let's see not uh towards the center of Plum Island and then the left heading towards the lighthouse side um here you could see the the two different floors on the lower level we've created some I I always refer to it as skirting but some form of some kind of enclosure to help minimize some of the um the winds the Sands um to to to some degree um and then the next slide this one will face the water um here you can see the Decks that uh are on the water side some of them are can't Del to an extent to help to help create some more Dimension while still allowing some some growth for vegetation below um and in the center you could see a out of the third the level of the roof um we have a small balcony coming off the top um and then here are the floor plans associated with that design um from the um ground level I wanted to comment we we do have for for marily Tumi the owner of the home um we wanted to allow for accessibility and ease um so we have an elevator a pitless elevator proposed in the center core that's um uh traveling adjacent to the staircase that's that's traveling up the center so I just wanted to point that out but mainly on the next slide just sort of where it falls in between the two car BS so that here you can see where the elevator um comes down and then on the right the top level how you access that roof balcony um but more or less you know trying to create that Cottage feel um with the shinro Styles and some outdoor space and again sort of making a cohesive uh structure so that marily can have her family um and Grand shend visit um and with that if there are any questions regarding the architecture I'm happy to answer them now or later as they come along thank you Bo have any questions the elevator doesn't go to the Head house it does not okay okay I'm processing Melle El okay the um again the elevation of the mean grade on the building is not um showing the lowest or the highest in terms of setting setting a point um to you have a wood planter is on the left side or Northern side that's along the right of way um it appears to be over the property line and that goes away that goes away good goes away okay um and just the way the application is is written that the house is or the property is in an LLC so a manager for the owner is that how this is being yes presented okay and have you been before come come yeah um we are filing next for the deadline next week um for the upcoming right um I will open up to the public is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak in favor see no one is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak against yes I'm DK C Andy and my wife fa and I own 42 number 42 the neighbor property and uh we're just wondering how much further into the Doom this structure will be than the existing structure I I didn't quite get that explain where the new structure will be located I could potentially answer that you can answer that I while I don't have a number sir the and I make sure I'm right on this the shed that sits behind the garage I guess on the opposite side of you yes the back of that shed is approximately almost identical to where the back of the house so and actually Mr chair if you don't mind I give you a picture so you can see it no I I understand what you're saying yes so here's that shed you can see that the back of the house goes no closer than the that existing shed and I guess there's a a patio back there so it's really just about to that Pao saying so we're not really pushing the Bel of the structure back there will be a canalita deck that goes back a little bit more but the structure itself is no farther than the current deck and the current shed thank you Mr chairman presumably the Conservation Commission will consider all this without question sir yeah that's that's why we asked it's not our our purview to weigh in or um um to use anything about comcom unless we see something so grossly represented that we can't help ourselves um but what we would do is typically we make conditions and that's why I asked if they haven't gone for comcom and a decision was made then we would put a condition that it needs to move through comcom and if anything anything changes on the the plan or to the house and they need to come back before us and resubmit so we have I do have a check via comcom in making decisions um if you like I just give you the last of my slides well you know I have to you have to Y I do want to put on the record our our justifications yep uh again we are not going to be substantially more detrimental uh we are in fact reducing the only non-conformity there is we cannot eliminate it but every inch better is better and I think as we pointed out from a visible visual perspective uh there will be a significant difference uh we're not exasperating or creating non-conformities uh the propos alteration and increase in height is consistent with the neighborhood um as I I as I as we now know you know the house to one side is going to be within a foot or two of this proposed structure and the house to the other side which I believe is yours sir um is of equal height so we're not going to be the tall we'll be nice and straight um the um again we're we're going up on pilings which is beneficial um for both the sand movement uh and flood water so we're going to be providing environmental improvements for the Dune and protecting the beach we're not going to be imposing any Shadows or impacting views uh as I pointed out the two houses directly across or or you know one sto one and a half stories and about two um so they're not looking over our roof as it currently sits so we're not going to be blocking a view that they they have because as as is the case along that area the the the land the Dune goes up from the street so um we're not going to be in uh eliminating views that don't exist um certainly I think this is a great Improvement to the building it's going to look beautiful and uh will certainly help in the in the neighborhood and the Aesthetics of the neighborhood in general increase tax revenue and um although my client did not um was not able to speak with this gentleman he obviously has been in contact with the folks uh at 36 so um we we haven't uh received any comments or concerns for many of our Butters I I think most people look at this as an improvement and given the fact that we are working within the piod um I did want to mention although we're going up in far we're still only going to be at 16% so they're not overdoing given the size of the lot and what they're doing they're going to keep it down to 16 um point4 I believe so it's going to increase the functionality and sustainability and it's going to provide a retirement home for uh Mr tumi's brother and uh hence the the elevator um it's not going to create new new conformities or exasperate any existing it will reduce the only existing non-conformity it's going to provide benefits to the neighborhood as I've discussed um and uh we feel that it will not be detrimental but in fact again um a general Improvement and uh Improvement of the area so it's interesting that we're finding two side by side can't say I've ever done that before but I think both clients ese including this one has made every effort to make sure that this proposed project meets your rules and regulations and we're not pushing the envelope on anything so appreciate your consideration thank you thank you the board have any comments or questions I guess the thing that's bugging me is I'm I'm not convinced we can't go back 8 ft and eliminate all the non-conformities which is kind of what the other project that you're repr did not saying this one isn't a big Improvement but it it sure looks like the only thing that will be over it doesn't clearly delineate where the edge of the Boom is but it sure sounds like the only thing that will be over it was something called a proposed second floor balcony so that will be hanging over it's going to be Canever Canever over that's great so you know what do I care if the can levers over I mean I don't know where the sand is but but you know what I'm saying I mean the entire structure architectural reason why it can't go back 8T that I don't there isn't an archit but I will tell you the and please help me if I'm misy um I mentioned the fact that the house has been put back to the sort of the line of the existing ground level deck in the back of the shed it's conservation that is not going to allow us to push beyond that already disturbance line in in the Doom I mean this this this sits in the Doom it's not a question of well when does the sand stot the whole thing is the Doom I could only see it from the street side I and the Conservation Commission will not let you put a structure closer to the water or to impact Dune that's already you know Dune um but they will allow you to go to the limit of existing disturbance so that's and I correct me if I'm wrong but that's that's why we align the back of the structure with the you know the existing ground floor now you are correct in saying but then doesn't your deck go beyond that they don't consider that an impediment to the Dune because it's you know 8 ft up so we're not actually in the Doom so what they want to look at is where is that front face of the structure itself but the house we just approved went back in a lot didn't it which is closer to the water what am I miss because and it has a lot to do with the fact that the previous property has a lot of invasive uh vegetation there so that was actually um an area that we could push towards without the conservation having concern about that they have no problem with that from and and I say this because we haven't been in front of them yet but this is with working with environmental consultant so that's the guidance we've been given with this property it's about the amount of disturbance so if you if you look at that poet of of where the proposed house is we're generally speaking sitting right on top of the existing structures for a reason because anytime you push further away we're disturbing more and so we're really at a balance there and even with the uh Canever decks um that is actually proposed to be a SE I'm I'm using the wrong word through a pass through so that it will encourage the growth of the vegetation below so it's even with with that Canever it's with it's with certain uh restrictions to what type of Canever that is so we're we're in a sort of teetering location we'd love we believe me we'd love to be Clos through the water but this is the the most feasible location to be approved and if I could point out um cuz you did ask about the prior application recall that that application that that site has a house behind it and their driveway and parking or their parking is behind it so the area behind that house is previously Disturbed and as I pointed out it's it's filled with invasive so they have no trouble with us pushing it back into that previously Disturbed area and then eliminating all the invasives that remain this is actually Ocean Front all right this is beach beach front so I would like to be able to ask the given the size of this lot I agree with you 100% I'm sure they'd like to push it back 50 feet but conservation is we we have enough experience with them that you know we're going no farther than we're that existing structure perhaps I'm in a minority on the board but I'd rather have the conservation committee say no rather than us approve something that doesn't conform on the grounds that we think they might say no but have to stand correctly it's not our jurisdiction and if they choose to put other conditions on this then it will it will be back before us but the front setback is our condition right so if we approve it then there's yes um it would be helpful very helpful for Mr Chandler to put grades on his s and and if the grades were on the site plan we might find that the back of the building is at the same elevation as the house next to us even though the house next to us proposed house next to us is push back further they might just be at the same elevation okay so back um and also um kind of knowing that these two plans and the same guy was drafting the plans it it wouldn't hurt to at least show a site plan of what was proposed next door if with with the understanding that we made a judgment on the last application via the existing conditions of this site and the fact that you're slightly improving this site slightly improving that site and we are looking for the existing neighboring houses in which to find that that line um and if and so that something like that would be very helpful as a diagram to make an argument of of how concom aside that the the position of the house via the 20 foot setback and the a further um established building line is made closer to the road because those structures even though one's proposed I understand that if he's going to stamp a drawing he's not going to put something that's proposed on an adjacent lot but it would be a great diagram in which to make part presentation whatever um that that said Jack that the that the line of the house in 36 the line of the house before um all appear to be about equal with the 10 or 11 ft setback okay it's our last chance to get the get the front set back right that's why I was bringing it up true and and again if they had proposed this to be 50 ft we'd be back here talking about it's 50 ft it's too far back it needs to be closer to the road to be more in keeping with the neighborhood so that there is a a line of buildings and not these random gaps and and you know there's more consistency is what we're after um and the existing house to the left or to the north is shown partial it's it's a little bit back but it doesn't seem like it's all that much back when you draw a line between the existing and and the proposed new and understanding what was proposed that the front is within keeping and and again we are looking for improvements on all fronts and where obviously minimal improvements and maximizing conditions aren't seem as favorable in terms of improvements to the neighborhood so I I don't um fair enough I don't see the same issue that you have and we do have a check for however comcom is going to review this um that anything that does happen will come back before us for your purview fair enough okay sh no I mean I think part of the Improvement also is by tucking in the parking underneath I mean I know that your garages right now are underneath but I would assume you probably don't use those all the time that you parallel park in front and so I think by tucking that parking underneath that's already an improvement on the street you know so many locations along everyone parallel Parks it was kind of a hindrance I think to the environment on that road um so I I think I think that helps me with the setback that's not um quite meeting the requirement makes me feel a little better about it but is is there also a sidewalk in front of the property right now sidewalk it's like there's just the beach access on the left that's why you see the path shoting off the that yeah yeah in fact if you want to take a look at that picture it's that standard sand you know which is very typical along the street here and I think you know that you can sort of push that parking level back helps so more questions yeah um I'll make a motion to draft a favorable decision uh based on additional information related to um elevation of the uh mean Building height grades to include grades and site plan of 40 Northern Boulevard um proposed say plan a proposed growing is that POS is that legitimate to do reasonable to do yeah if you want to we're drafting a favorable decision if you would like to see some more backup documentation and you can certain Ask Don't Walk the Line we talking okay so is there any discussion on that motion is there a second okay all those in favor I I so we were we will draft uh a motion we'll keep the public hearings open to April 18th at 7:30 here at Town Hall we will request that you update the um building elevations and show how the mean height it is uh calculated in relation to the high and the low point and the mean point is in the middle um and we're also going to ask for a diagram um it doesn't have to be a stamped survey but it it should show the adjacent property this proposed house and it should show the proposed house at 36 Northern and the set packs and and right and set pack yeah may we could superimpose something on a Google map however you just want to show that the line of houses along Northern for several properties um on either side of 36 and 40 are within the pre-existing quote line that's what we'd like to see all right we will do that thank you thank you thank you thank you next one okay um Tim and an Tim and an Dr 76 more Boulevard proper 80 Northern Boulevard the office of Attorney Jeffrey wels has filed notice of appeal on behalf of Tim and anad dros of 76 on Boulevard against the town of new's director of inspectional service for a zoning enforcement decision dated November 29th 2023 issued to the Ws of 80 Northern Boulevard are being El are being legally deficient this appeals pursuant to mgl 4A 8 and 15 in the town of new goning bylaws 9711 B with the regards to the property located in he Northern Boulevard Plum Island Newber accessor mat 03181 this is continued from 215 uh they're asking for continue to 48th meeting is there anybody here for 80 Northern 76 Northern just a letter is all we have we're all together we all together that was continued to 4 sorry iiz the email from okay so does anybody have any issues with Mak any continu and is there a motion to make any continu I'll make a motion to continue uh this meeting uh for April 18th at 7:30 regarding the Tina and Anna DR Property their application their application of administrative decision on 80 Northern Boulevard okay is there a second yeah I seconded it I'm sorry all those in favor I I so the motion U the hearing is continued to April 18 7:30 here at toall okay Mark and Teresa Richie 10 P way the applicants are requesting a special permit finding for the Le relief of section 97 4D 5 c01 increasing square footage of the Newber zoning bylaws and any other permanent relief ASB acquired under the town of newbry zoning bylaws to allow the proposed used projects in order to raise the existing structure at 8 forway merge the two Lots at 8 pom way and 10 pom way into one lot and construct an addition on the existing single family dwelling to remain on the newly combined lot for the property located at 104 way cessor mat view01 lot 20 and 8 forom way assessors mat 01 Lot 21 Plum Island yes and this is continued from 2:15 and the applicants are represented B Sino from Millennium engineering evening to the chair and honorable members my name is Bill Sheen I practice law in pbd Massachusetts and tonight it's my pleasure to represent Mark Richie and Teresa Richie uh they are the owners of and live at 10 forom way uh and Mr Richie in his capacity is Trustee of the 8 for and way realy trust owns uh the property of mining at 8 for white and as was just indicated in the uh reading of the advertisement The Proposal here is to demolish the existing two family house at 8 forom way to combine the Lots at 10 and 8 forom wide and then on the combined lot uh to add to the house that now is at 10 forom Way such that it would extend in a southerly direction and cover a portion of 10 and also a portion of 8 foro uh the property of course as you know is governed by The Plum Island overlay District uh zoning bylaw uh the structure at number 10 is non-conforming as to a number of dimensional requirements they are laid out in the zoning table that is on the plan that Millennium engineering has submitted as part of the application uh the building commission has determined that a special permit was required because we are proposing to extend or alter the footprint of the house at 10 uh forom way uh therefore the Richie seek a special permit based on a finding that the uh alteration and extension as proposed is not substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood or to The Plum Island overlay District so we're here looking for a finding and special permit under Section 97-4543 if it's allowed not be uh not substantially more detrimental it will be beneficial we would suggest to both the neighborhood and the district for a number of reasons uh the first is that it will eliminate a non-conforming conforming two family use at 84 way uh thus advancing the goal of eliminating non-conforming uses secondly it reduces the intensity of the use of the combined Lots from three dwelling units to one dwelling unit it eliminates the structure at 8 forom way which is not on pilings in favor of the addition to 10 forom Way which will be constructed on pilings it eliminates a non-conforming structure at 8 forom way which advances the goal of reducing the number of non-conforming structures it eliminates a non-conforming lot at 8 forom way advancing the goal of reducing density it eliminates two of the present non-conformities at 10 for way as to lot coverage the enlarged structure on the combined lot will result result in lot coverage of less than the maximum 20% 19.2% and as to the Southside setback that setback will increase from 6.6 ft to 21.9 ft and thus we will satisfy the cells side setb in addition what we're proposing reduces the number of present non-conformity is a 10 forom way and the frontage of the combined lot is more than doubled from 43 ft to 100 ft so we don't meet the 125 ft or a whole lot closer uh the lot itself of course increases substantially in size from 7,648 Ft to 16,21 15 ft again more than double we also get closer to the goal of 25% of the Florida area ratio as we reduce that ratio from 33.9% to 30.5% uh it reduces the number of bedrooms on the property from Seven they're four at 8 for them now and three at 10 uh reducing that number from 7 to 5 and it will result in the replacement of a building constructed in 1953 uh with a newly constructed addition so for all of those reasons what we're doing is not only not substantially more detrimental it is beneficial uh happily all of our neighbors agree uh in fact they have all indicated their uh agreement with what we're proposing to do in writing uh finally the board may make the requested finding that we're asking for because the structure will be farther from the street 5.4 ft than the existing structure at 84 way which is 3.2 ft and as I said the north side setback Remains the Same Southside setback becomes conforming total number of bedrooms will be reduced so if you are so inclined you have the power to Grant the relief you would ask you to do so uh with me tonight is Matt steinel from Millennium engineering uh and also the architect Andrew sidford um and I'll be guided by the board as to uh how much you'd like to hear from them or if you want to hear from them or just ask questions of us however you wish to proceed all righty thank you thank you the board have any questions in a moment thank you I guess I went over the plans pretty thoroughly I guess one procedural question do we do we have a denial on this Chrissy did Peter actually deny something yes he did yes oh okay I I may I must have Miss that because of because of no because of the alteration of the footprint so you you've heard oh if if the if you're trying to go higher or if you're trying to alter the footprint in either of those events you can't do it as it right you need a special property meat or less is one way if you exceed it's another and so he's denying on the exceeding part of it I missed that part thank you um so this is this is the taking the keeping the exist exting structure and adding onto it that's correct so I think right out of the gate uh understanding everything you said I think we have a big issue with the height of the building your existing roof height is 45 ft from the mean grade to the top of the the um arched I know KOA or whatever that is on it and so that that um is fairly large and although you're combining two an existing and adding a new the structure is is extremely large and and is so for the F that's being reported um understanding that you're making a slight improvement from uh 33.9 to 30.8 um the height is listed at 3 33.75 which is an acent it's to the zoning says the height is to the highest roof structure and when you have something covering and you have a a roof form that is the highest roof so the addition that we're proposing is within your 35 ft height limitation we agree that the existing house which was uh which was has been constructed uh with permits is uh listed as uh as 44 ft I if I could quickly I just wanted to point out that the the existing structure that's on 10 was constructed in 2012 so well within the time frame when the the IOD was in effect and permits were issu by the building department I believe what you see on our plan is a an interpretation of the building height based on how we've looked at it today but the original surveyor engineer who did this produced plans that satisfi building insector at the time and they issued the permit in 2012 for that that to be constructed so that's how Millennium interprets the height of the existing structure it may not have been the exact interpretation of the building inspector at that time but it's exist thing and so we what we're proposing is not to exacerbate that or make that any worse it's actually to eliminate other non-conformities and show that the addition itself is not going to make that any worse I comment to that sure my name is Mark Richie I'm the owner at Canon 8 forom way when we built the original house we did uh uh comply with all the uh uh building uh requirements including the height and the way they measured the height was to the mean height of the roof but they did not count the Koopa because it was under the square footage for an allowable Koopa at the time and that's how you get the total the top of that Koopa appearing to be so much higher than the allowable 35 ft but that uh if you look on our the original drawings that were um uh uh you know we went through all the uh uh these same meetings and same uh approvals we did meet all the requirements of the building and the CBA and uh uh committees at the time on the existing house so there's no change to the existing house itself I I it could have been at the time I started or before my time but I was around probably at the end of 2012 or maybe the beginning of 2013 um and going back I'm just pointing it out that the going back to the definition that says is roof we don't have we've had conditions of stairs and landings and whether Landings or levels but the roof is the roof and we we don't have a minimum square size at the time that may have been what was discussed and what was judged just just pointing out that it's to what our standards are right now that existing roof is quite High that's all fair enough right well um we have no intention of demolishing the existing house 10 way but uh we the the house at 8 the new house new addition is within all those requirements I believe it looks like it's 27 fo6 is the new to the mean of the addition right and the existing house that's being demolished is how many bedrooms the existing house has four bedrooms four bedrooms two units so we're going from four to five four and three we're going from seven to five correct um is the roof structure that looks like it has a trellis over is that en closed or is that open it's just an open trellis it's a and are those are those solar panels along the roof or what yes okay and then um for this part of the deck that's away from the on the right hand side that that's um got more of a solid sort of U handrail or parit to it um it depends on the grade it doesn't have to be a handra it's less than uh less than 30 in above that so the handrail where it's above 30 I'm sorry I'm sorry you talking about the balcony or the first floor deck I'm talking about the deck as you come out of the existing house you're on a deck that has a trellis over it and you step out onto another deck is that true are you up at the roof how about the roof level oh no there's railings on both sides 3 to 36 in and they're solid no no they're open rail I mean they're just they ra to so this this is the roof deck here correct this is roof or this that's a glitching the computer because it's a 3D model so that's the cathedral ceiling in the below okay the elevation is still a little bit better but that's accurate but it's little but there is a deck that you can walk out here no no that's just the roof the deck is hidden back behind so you really won't see the deck okay that bar why I I got I was having trouble putting two and two together as to why am I seeing c new software doesn't always tell let not get started on that um anybody have any questions you know I don't want to ruin my reputation but I kind of get a warm and fuzzy feeling about this project because of the timing and the waiting which was submitted to the time um we' actually initially already followed conservation received all of our approvals there we thought we were good on the on the zoning side and so there was several months in between when we received our conservation approval to when we officially were notified by the building department that we needed to come before you so that that's been done closed out recorded at the registry and we we've got to this stage by applying to the building department and receiving that denial we've been working with the here for a long time it's back and forth apologize see a copy of the letter I'm sure it's there it is a part of the application he had originally suggested we didn't need to go for the CBA so we move forward on other fronts um in in talking to the building inspector on other matters he did mention that the to sit in um back and forth a challenge h a challenge yes um so the moan grade is obviously shown clearly marked bedrooms height what's the finished material where this ration hat is is thatting is that sorry I'm not sure what look this yeah sure this hat right here what is that represented oh uh that was also the there's nothing we're going to take down as far as we can open screen to down upgrade that's just doesn't go down as as that so there'll be some sort of skirting there though yeah and this the the front and the side a the side a is the left that's the existing Goen correct and you show existing photo oops photos um that's I'm not sure where that came from I was just is the 5.4 for the front setback is there an existing is that existing or is that new the 5.4 that's shown here is to the the existing are to the proposed and on sheet one of the existing you can see that the structure was 3.2 so okay so it's a slight Improvement yeah so was really an overhanging torch I guess Nick thicky but on the site plan you list on the applications but the site plan doesn't have the rear setback of 101 and the side existing setback Dimension somehow I missed it somewhere on the application on the on the site plan itself I mean if you have it on the existing but it's not on the new site plan on the proposed correct because the existing structure on 10 Still Remains the closest point so we showed just the closest points so on this one here on the prop the rear setback we have at 123 to the rear lot line and then on the side we have it at 21.9 so you're combining the Lots you're making an addition to an existing building correct so then I think I would consider the whole building as the building and the and the setback should be measured to somebody in the future looks at this they're going to open this up and they're going to look at it and say oh the property is 123 ft back but that's not the farthest that that's not the dimension agree no agree the closest point being the existing structure here at at 101.7 so do do we have an update or do I not it should be on sheet one existing conditions right but okay but you saying what you'd like to see the dimension I think we want to file one document one site plan with a decision as opposed to to multiple plans and have somebody try to work between understood to say that this this is moving forward this is this is it we can absolutely add that Dimension there I I made the assumption that sheet one of two in the entire PL that would be part of the decision but if you want to see it all on that one sheet just that just clarify things eliminates confusion in the future of people looking at it and not seeing or finding something and understanding your understand what you have here but then they look at the second plan and they see the two houses they look at this plan they see an addition and the dimension doesn't match the table and we'd like the dimensions also on the site plan to match the application so that two go hand in hand the technicality but we'd like to get stuff so that if it gets challenged or if it comes back in another uh 11 years or so then it's all on the plan understood make it clean make it easy yeah okay along the same lines is the um right now there's two separate owners are we going to have one we combine a lot we have one owner well one owner cuz and which one is that is it the eight P way trust or is it the wife there'll be 10 P way uh it'll be 10 P way what we're going to what we're going to want to do just from from a legal perspective we want to keep those lots uh in separate ownership until hopefully we receive the relief that we're looking for the appeal period runs then we can combine the ownership of those two Lots I see okay and it will be under whatever it is okay thank you so I understand that the existing F was over the existing commiss um and it's still over by you know quite a bit the proposed um I mean you know when you when you look at the site plan density wise it's it's fairly dense um as you know even when you combine the two lots U you know was there an attempt to get closer to what the allowed f is no we understand you made it slightly better but not not much I think the answer to that is from a from a practical perspective uh given Mr Richie's situation where he's got uh it's his mother-in-law living with him she has can't get up the stairs anymore you'll know there we're proposing to add an elevator so as to accommodate her needs uh all of those things combined resulted in the reduction but not a reduction any more than the 30.9% questions Mario the other house at 12 the one at six is quite small or much smaller it's like it's like a match of the existing that was there um but the sidey yard setback is greatly improved against that number six it went from uh went from 616 to and 13 13 and 6 that was between and across the Street's what like a parking lot right Street it is is land that's owned by uh by the Richies and there also a parking lot for the um uh for blue yeah any other questions sounds like we've got a a a condition of ownership they just obviously we go through but we'd like to understand that and then the site plan mentions of the site plan and the match application the roof yeah now that I understand it for a minute I was not quite sure but now you can see in cat we cut the cut the plane that good old hand um yeah I comments or issues or all good ready for a motion all right make a motion um I'd like to propose a motion to um a positive draft or a favorable decision sorry I make a motion to um make a favorable decision based on a couple things uh that we had just mentioned uh including dimensions and and match on the site plan and the application to include and anything else you um I think we're just going to note a condition that we assume that the two lots will be merged to one sure a condition that to that effect is fine so long as we just just need that timing as all yep yep you've already been through comcom so we're not going to make any conditions about comcom um and we do have a standard language even though we said it on the previous ones but any changes to the plans as you get the construction then could cause the building Spector to flag something and bring it back to us and with respect to the ownership the the condition I might propose is that prior to a building permit issuing that the two lots be combined in common ownership any our we're not the um enforcing agency and so it all goes back to the building inspector to make sure everything is checked and in line and if we have conditions then he's supposed to be checking those as he Grant you the building permit and you get get started he's checking off things so um I don't think I don't think he would have an issue not speaking for him but if he understands that the process is underway and you're underway that there's time to let things happen very good that's fine okay thank you very much for your time appreciate is there a second second all those in favor I I I passes congratulations thank you thank you yep thank you I ask one so I just to be clear are we now on the 20-day uh appeal period or do we I'll okay so um I know we have to make some corrections we have to make some corrections so as the for ality is and with making the decision and with the the the size of the decision that we make we used to approve things in a night and just move it and then sign it so um we are asking for drawings to be um updated so we would like those updated and sent to us um in the past several hearings we've continued this to April 18th um so I think we would like to have a motion to continuous the April 18th receed your drawings we're going to get a draft of the decision it will take that long to draft the decision with everything that we have before Chrissy anyway um and we will get it review it and that meeting it should be short the understanding that you're submitting the drawings that we asked for and then we'll review the decision and typically approve it right there and then I understand you probably w't in to get going but um well I I understand bucl these many times but uh only because we had been put off for so long by the building inspector and who would we had sort of led us to believe that we were didn't need to go through the zba at all so we're quite late on the process but I understand unfortunately we we have a much better full complete multi-page decision that is just as much in your interest as it is in ours and so that's the process that we now up before us fair enough appreciate it thank you very much thank you fa understand all righty we got Cricket Lane how about three River Street here oh oh interesting email received tonight uh [Music] they they differ in their opinion of your opinion of their situation with utilities or say that again uh so they sent the email so I printed it off so you could read it and then Martha was kind enough to make her comments decision and drafted and that's what the 11 by 17 coffee is so I don't know if they're going to proceed they don't know what they want to do uh I told them that the hearing is open regardless until 4:18 because that's what we said last time and they continue to that point because they hav't submitted the supplemental material so we continued to tonight though no we did so we can Recon continue to um and they haven't they haven't submitted the supplemental so I figured we'd have to keep it continued again until the 18th so I folding that in tonight's email that the meeting would have to be contined to 48 um yeah I mean there's a ying and a Yang to what they're asking for okay so is is um so I don't even know if the decision is going to be needed did you just read the hearing in even though there sure so that we're official with it then we might have a word about it and then on how to proceed David and Sharon brw 30 River Street the applicants are requesting a special permit finding for relief of section 9710 d2c detach accessory Apartments of the newb zoning bylaw and any other permanent Rel has may be required under the town of newb zoning bylaws to allow the proposed use project in order to renovate the existing detached Barn garage on the lot to convert to an accessor requirement on the property located at Three River Street Byfield map 01922 sessor map r19 lot 59 continue hearing from 21524 okay so we just we just make a motion well we received an email I haven't with I don't think any of us have read this email I don't think any of us are prepared to unless someone wants to read it and discuss it um and we we made comments we asked for certain things about a stair so that the the square footage which was allowed on one floor didn't all of a sudden turn into a two-floor apartment uh in terms of limiting the square footage for zoning and then the second was making sure that the utilities ran from the house again that the accessory apartment is subwat subservient to the property and not totally separated or isolated um structure on the property so um so I think we should take this under advisor and we should think about this and then we should um make a motion to continue this through uh 418 okay make a motion to continue this till three River Street till 4:18 second 7:30 7:30 here at Town Hall here at Town Hall you're getting better um so we have yeah April 4 April 18th 7:30 here at Town Hall continued it the um hearing is is still open okay Z Now second second great thanks all those in favor I all right I 418 now we're on other other business okay uh board discussion 55 R Pearson Drive project applicants representative attorney Douglas thean ofers Nichols sent in a letter dated February 7 2024 requesting an extension to the comprehensive permit decision dated 38 1821 and file count bur one 4121 set to expire 4124 ladies and gentlemen good evening uh Douglas desan uh representing cricet Lane Development LLC uh with me this evening is Walther Ericson uh manager of uh Cricket Lane development you will remember some years ago we appeared before this board and and spent a considerable amount of time and effort in um working towards an approval of comprehensive permit for the property um you uh issued that it was filed with the clerk on April 1st 2021 some nearly 3 years ago um unfortunately um along the way we ran into some issues with the Conservation Commission um we ended up before D that issued a superseding order to allow the project to move forward um the town then appealed or the Conservation Commission then appealed D's decision so we ended up in an adjudicatory um situation with d which was just resolved um two months ago or eight weeks ago oh January 14th January 14th um and uh so we are now in possession of the necessary permits to uh move forward with the project we have filed for final review uh with the with the state uh to give us our final uh go ahead to move forward um and in fact I will likely be back before this board uh in a month or so asking you to sign the regulatory agreements and the mon and the other state required agreements that we have to put in place to preserve the affordability and of course uh some of those documents do require um your signature so we will be submitting those for review by Council and and can be becoming back for um signatures at some point but we also did realize um in in doing final approval that technically our permit is expiring on April 1st um now there is certainly a a strong legal argument that um the permit was told during you know the uh ad judicary process however um rather than you know going down that road and and and fighting the nuances of that um I felt it would be safer and in some ways U um a more transparent Pro process to come in and ask for a an extension of the permit um it was pointed out to me today that I I didn't uh expressly request the the time frame of the um of the extension typically when we seek extensions we just seek an extension of the original 3 a term but in this case uh you know my client is doing everything in his power to stop this as soon as possible he's actually had meetings on site with uh you know Town staff and departments to begin the process um so we're hoping to uh break ground as soon as we get final approval um and so um we would certainly uh um request just a one-year extension because we have no concerns that we're not going to break ground um in this year um and in fact I did as I was leaving the office today I did receive a comment on our final approval application with the state they had some requested changes and modifications but I feel we're very well down the road um to receiving final approval and would hope to get that in a matter of weeks so with that I'm here to ask whether the board would uh continue uh give us an extension of one year as you know the the permit itself provides for extensions uh provided that um we can show Just Cause And I think two and a half years of litigation is certainly just cause for why we couldn't put a shovel in the ground uh in order to effectuate the permit you actually have to pull a a a building permit and start a foundation that would have sealed the deal but again without an order of conditions we were unable to do that so um one of the things that um I know Walter and he met with Martha and some other folks out on the site um there was a discussion of um providing a um timetable for actually starting and a and a construction timeline um and I do believe Walter was able to get that in late today yes yes um it was forwarded to the board members yeah and again I apologize for it coming late but it was just brought to my attention um in fact Mar and I just talked about it earlier today so um we did make a um Walt made a great effort to get it but I and and we're happy to share that because that is the timeline Walt is really ready to get going here um but again typically for an extension what we need to show is that we had just CS for not starting and I think we've done that so again in in the sake of transparency and cooperation we're ask we're asking the board for a a year extension any questions I have a a couple comments I I have a question just wanted just to clarify so there is no foundation work been done no shovels have put in the ground no concrete has been they have not been able to no thank you so I just state that that um understanding what you requested all makes sense that timelines and time periods and limits are are set so that things don't just keep rolling on and things actually then change like building codes like land conditions like things like that MH so getting started in Earnest would be good and um we did have a decision that had about 61 conditions on it and we have a list and um understanding the construction schedule I did receive Martha's email but I didn't get a chance to open or even look at the construction schedule so um I think we need to make sure as a board as a town that we have our processes and we have our understanding in place and so um the construction schedule the contact list the uh Lottery agent uh a list of any revisions and and final documentation and then a walk through um tedious walk through of the 61 items and check the box and understand that some of those items will be checked at the beginning some in the middle some in the end um and we as a board as a permanent granting Authority um have uh some overview in that is it the building inspector that then will manage the decision list Martha I believe that most of them are just conditions tied to various things like the building permit occupancy and and those things so it'll be his and we're not asking change any of those we're going to meet every one of them in Mr chairman I have but I I assumed I would be having another meeting with mothur and the staff and I have the uh all the conditions listed in the requirement of the board I can give you this I only brought one with me I got them I mean i' I've got them printed out as in small form I them out on large yeah so some of the conditions are required prior to any construction yep some are required prior to obtain building permit some are required for an aumy permit and the whole list the way the conditions are structured uh I've highlighted them in there and I've got pinpoints so that I can meet those milestones and make sure that I keep track with the town okay within a a year's time for starting construction um let's say April 1st when I your schedule was the is the First Foundation set to be placed so the way we have it scheduled is in April we we have to do inspection with the town to show the limit of clearing and the engineers out there staking that property now and then we'll install our rosion control barriers we have to do an inspection with the town to inspect and approve the limit of clearing that's on the pl then we'll build a temporary construction entrance so they won't impact the residents on P and drive then we have that small Wetland Crossing so we have to put a small wall along the left hand side of the road so that we can cross that wetlands and then we'll have a tree cutter in there in May and then in June uh once we cut the trees we have a company come in and we stump it and then we grind all the stumps up into Bach M and wood chips so that nothing's buried on site we don't have to truck anything off then uh in May end of May June we start the construction of the roadway and we'll start the construction of four houses on that right hand CAC for us as we're doing the roadway our roadway we estim it's going to take three or four months so our schedule calls for Paving roadway having the water the septic system and all the drainage completed and the roadway for the entire project paved in October with a binder uh and then we'll be building houses as the market demand so we typically will not have any more than four spec houses up at one time but we will complete the entire roadway behind us so that uh there'll be access to fire department emerging vehicles and homeowners and then as we sell the homes depending on what the market is we'll just keep going and build build them all through are you're going to build them from front to back yes yes uh so we think in the market we'll be completely finished in 2 years okay but the roadway binder will be done by October uh and it has to be completed since the permit requires us to be in substantial completion prior to an occupancy permit so with the water sewer drainage all the utilities and the roadway of finder we'll be able to get our uency perits for the first off probably in December will that be a finished roadway for the finished will be finished but not the finished C of Hut top so okay they usually want the binder to sit over a winter before you put your top coat on or they require it I think yeah and what we typically do is we put a binder Cod on all our driveways as well then when we go to do our finish we put in the granite Curbing and we do a finish coat on all the driveways and the roadway all at once and the project looks brand new nobody has any scuff marks and uh it works out really well that way so a year extension from let's say April 1st to April 1st again mhm um and you're you think that the roadway will be complete and Foundations would have been started on at least four houses by October yes okay um to me I don't have any questions with the extension as it's been presented and it's been asked for a year um to do that my questions are just double-checking that our that we're aware that our decisions our conditions of the decisions have been met and have been checked off and that if there's anything that we need to do probably be Mark that would be good to have a meeting with a bunch of us I'd like to be included even if it's just virtual just again to walk through the process and a little bit more detail with with other parties involved and then um and we're all moving forward together that sounds great yeah and and and as I said um once we get final approval of of you know everything uh we are going to have to come in and see you uh to have you sign those documents perhaps we could schedule to do a presentation addressing you know all the questions you have that night so that we're here for one know we can do it at the same time if you'd like we don't mind meeting separately or offline but think we'd like to get building inspector Peter here part of the group um and if if um if the level of discussion yeah it would be great to have it in a public form and get it on record and do it all that would be great if it seems like it's going to be a little more tedious to walk through stuff we could have a we could have a a virtual meeting and we can still take that meeting for available for for everyone sure um I I can I'll forward that spreadsheet to Matha so actually when we we met I told M I was going to forward that to her and I haven't yet but I'll forward that to her so she can keep her act it looks like looks like we have it right well we got one from Town Council so Eric has done his own and I think we need to look make sure we're all on the same they pretty good being kind of close right well they stop at 45 I thought we go up to 50 we do we 50 must have been on can somebody explain condition number 50 to me that's the one I'm sticking on that no one knows that no one has them I have the condition I have them too so I just wanted to have some explain it what says permit not expire expires construction not started in 3 years yes is that it says this permit shall expire construction is not commenced within 3 years from the date it is filed by the board yeah for purpose of this paragraph only commencement of construction is defined as the construction of a building Foundation the applicant May apply the board for extensions which I assume is what's happening yes uh but here here's my question um it doesn't say anything about extender rating circumstances and times tolling and other appeals and other battles that's not in your decision but under the Mass general laws 40b regulations 40b regulations the law specifically states that that time period for the 3 years is automatically told if if there's any appeal from a state federal I see that in counselor uh the Shan's uh submitt but I don't see it here no but it's also got plenty of paper why would if they were extended if they I can send you a copy of Master our laws and the 40b regulations I think you that's no but I mean that's the regulation that says you can request an extension but in the regulations I it provides more of a base is for your analysis of the extension and it you you you generally can't just sit on your hands for three years and come in a week before and say hey I'd like an extension you have to show Just Cause I understand and you've been doing that here but it seems like if I just read this one condition it's open and shut we quick meeting I think there's a reference to 760 CMR in that condition yes that threeyear time period is also in the state regulations so it's in every approval for 40 so so 760 CMR has that we govern the state is governed by Massachusetts General law no I understand all that but I didn't know that that was my answer explaining it the 760 CMR grants allows the tolling so that's what I was trying to clarify yeah and and my point about the schedule and asking for more detail and and trying to figure out with an April 1st extension from April 1st to April 1 1 of 2025 that the process for construction sounds organized enough that the road will be in and and at least four of the house foundations will be started by October and there is some leeway if construction shouldn't get started in the next three months in order for October to turn in and start the foundations before um following April I'm very anxious to be out here I have to be honest with that I've been waiting a long time yep and we're we're with everybody's interest we're just trying to make sure we're by the book and we're we're understanding and um this is the first 40b show lot people have eyes on it we're just making sure we're we're at due process here um I also was talking uh before about a lottery agent for instance I typically used on some of the 4y B's chumford Housing Authority actually runs the lottery for a lot of municipalities uh they're all set up to do it they are full-time directors and they actually run the whole Lottery we pay them a fee and they've run the lottery for us in Westford and they've run the lottery for us in Kingsboro and some of the 4y Beats so we would like to use them for the Tom Newberry and you know the town can work directly with them we pay the fee and they run a whole Lottery and we don't have anything to do with it you know and that's I think part of the joint discussion amongst us is to make sure we understand Martha from the town side on all the conditions and the process of who's got the overview before we get started so that we're all aware going forward we're not we as a town are not trying to figure this out halfway through we've we've each the proper people with the proper responsibilities are involved alerted and and are involved make sure we know who has overview of what and approval right if we have any questions we can ask Town Council and we'd like to get it all straight out before you start because that's the best way to do it as as part of our final approval that we're in now um the state actually has to approve our our Lottery agent which is another reason we use a lottery agent that has been you know approved by the state to do dozens of these projects so you'll find that CH Housing Authority is a well-respected lottery agent but again we have to get approval from the state before we can even propose to you so one question we wrote a letter regarding local preference y do you know where that where that stands or is that they will put that in the lottery procedure so the lottery agent will take that local preference and uh they set it up and one one that I've done in the past what they do is the number of people that apply for the lottery for the local Preference they put in like two tickets for the local preference to give them better chance to get picked or something but as I said we don't get involved in that because it'll be a conflict but we um you propose the lottery agent the state approves it we can question the lottery agent on how they go about meeting the requirements yes that they actually they'll come up with a lottery plan and they'll submit it to you when you work with them okay do anybody have any issues um so I I'll make a motion to Grant an extension a onee extension from April 1st 2024 to April 1st 2025 for the same um conditions of meeting the requirements of starting construction as currently defined anybody have anything to add to that second y Mario second all those in favor I I I all right so you have your onee extension all right we look forward to working with you on this one yep we have there will be a lot of communication yes and we need to get kicked off from the right direction with the right information y we will we'll enure that okay all right well thank you very much you um nice thank you Patrick's day is going to draft that extension is going to ra that extension up I can take a shot it we should get that pil with stretching by the first okay is it we can have Lea review it is it a lengthy decision is it pretty straight forward usually a certificate of vote saying you know granting stating that you voted to Grant an extension from this St to this date okay and it it does need to be filed before the first um it should be May the 1st is the expiration date so it should be done so do we need a meeting to I think it's just a I correct me if I'm wrong I think it would just be a matter of of signing it okay because you voted it's it's basically a cert certifying your vote to Grant the extension correct it was a a motion a motion to Grant the ex decision I didn't I didn't specifically say draft but just make the decision and we voted on okay all good just water as as lry is saying it might be might be fine to you know have the board authorize you to sign it as the chair or Mario to sign it as the vice chair whatever cler new ground for us is that all of you come in typical what you guys do for the planning board I think for those we've we've actually had everybody sign yeah I'll sign it okay and um are you all going to be around is anybody going to be away I'm away from the I'm I'm back on the 26th when are you leaving the 20 next next Wednesday the next Monday I'm we can make it happen in the bo do you have the electronic signature understand no no okay yes it just prints out funky size and we just have to Cotton paste and fit it to the paperwork wasn't very usable but it's okay you didn't like my signature you two no I didn't wasn't your sign so it's fine you just have to position it right reduce the size and it's we'll work it works it'll be we'll work it out okay but everyone know understands that there's going to be something in the box that needs to be signed before the first yes all right we're good to go all right great is there a motion to make a motion to close the meeting tonight great second second all in favor I I meeting is closed thank you