##VIDEO ID:z0ftxUM_5_4## all right good evening everybody this is the Newbury zoning board of appeals it is Thursday evening November 21st 2024 the time is 7:30 uh we're here at the muber municipal offices 12: Kent Way by Field Mass and we will start the meeting by opening the first hearing okay for some some business open the first time uh Bob lobsters 49 Plum Island Turnpike the applicants are requesting a special permit right it's correct so I'll take oh I'm sorry okay so we have uh an applic application on the agenda that shouldn't have been on the agenda because it it um it never officially was submitted because they were asking legal counsel so we're just announcing that we have it on the agenda and that we're not going to we're just going to take it off because it wasn't submitted so that's just the formality all right number two uh Susan Thomas cost again 337 Street the applicants are requesting a special permit finding for Rel section 97 4 D5 c01 increase in footprint of the new bar res resoning bylaws and any other permit relief as being required under the town of Newbery zoning bylaws to allow the proposed project for renovation to the existing dwelling including Dex on the property located at 337 Street Plum Island Newbery Mass 0151 accessor M u4 lot 165 this is a continuation fromer 7th and this will be continued till uh 129 yes so we just received a request for a continuation because the butter butter notices weren't properly nailed and so with that um is December 19th our third Thursday month y 7:30 y are you guys both you can make it you can make it okay so is there a motion to for continu to time D Place make a motion for continuance for December 19th 7:30 here at Town H excellent second I second it all those in favor I I let's continue okay three earlt Evon third 10 6 Street the applicant is requesting a special permit for relief from section 4797 4 D5 c01 increase in square footage and two upward extension of the newb zoning bylaws and any other per ASB required under the town of newb zoning bylaws to allow the proposed project in order to raise the existing dwelling on the lot and the construction of a new single family dwelling in pings on the property located at 106 Street from Island Newbery Mass 01951 cessor at 02 lot 222 and this will be a review of a draft decision based on last week's meeting the hearing is closed so there's no uh comment there's just review and discussion on the uh draft agend draft decision before us so everybody has copy decision do you have a copy I didn't introduce I usually I'll get do I need to no I did have the question on page three of six under one E Yeah that's the that's the only I okay I have a comment that I think we can just all right you know when you're I've read this before I'm good it was on email okay so on page three of six P at the top talks about the property consists of one parcel with total area of approximately 0.265 Acres 11,5 Ft and then at the very end it says um barrier Beach coal resource area and flood zone [Music] ae13 and the technicality is that the property really has a swap in the middle of it that is in that zone but the think I'm think remembering right the North and the South and so I think if we say to and bottom instead of saying top and bottom we put north and south then people know when they look at the plan what the orientation is yes I will so I would just propose changing top and bottom to um North and South okay prop any comment me no okay thank you uh is there a motion to accept the decision is drafted with oneit I'll make a motion to accept the decision as drafted with the one edit thank second that motion thank you all in favor I passes we'll make that edit in the Box you can sign it awesome thanks number four y all right Gerald F Dy 11 and 15 Sunset Drive the applicant of requesting variance SL reversal of administrative decision and special permit finding for the relief of zoning five all section 97 4d2 B and 97- 6B regarding allowed use and dimensional requirements in order to correct the lot configurations allowing for the creation of a legal non-conforming lot to be redeveloped in order to raise the preexisting non-conforming dwelling and for the construction of a new single family dwelling with Gage on pil property located on 11 and 15 Sunset Drive from Island Newberry M Mass 01951 mat2 78 right can here uh yes I'm here we're waiting for uh Gerald fended and Charlotte um they should be here any minute they're on their way okay so we'll take a breather and we'll look at what's in front of us and sure and I I could try to answer any questions until [Applause] if it helps I also have some um printed material here not every not everything that you have in your package but some of it that one yeah I can I am the architect by the way my name is leam m thank you [Music] is there one have an extra copy of that they got the plans but just oh absolutely [Music] [Applause] discussions [Music] [Applause] [Applause] change here here 77t this let me know if there are any questions I can I can try and answer um Jerry can speak to the variance issue because he knows Theory than I can we're gonna open the introduction be had okay we're going to talk about the the process here for us what's in front of us and then we can decide how to focus what we focus on first and second whe hear it all whether we just focus on that will be the opening [Music] [Music] [Music] rece IM your handic door down there is that hand you got stuck in the door oh I'm so sorry I will report that to the building I apologize [Music] thank you all right appreciate it Jo so we're still we're still waiting right okay so before we get started I I we so excited to get the meeting going I a little bit of formality but I just like to introduce who we all are I'm part of can you push me up closer so I can hear what you're saying y sure I can't hear sorry no problem got hear what you're saying to me this should be good enough okay so uh here for the DBA is Chrissy oi who's our Administrative Assistant my name is Eric spawn I am the chair we have Mario carali who is a member we have Larry Murphy who is a member and we have Jack Kelly who is a member of the planning board and is Lea on okay you got that us backwards oh did I okay sorry about that it's not my night um okay so here we go we read in and right you read y so we read in and open the hearing and so we'd like to know if the applicant is here to present and if so you can come up to the podium you can come a little closer pull up a chair speak loudly so everybody can hear you yes chlan I have charlot foresight we've been married 55 years he a different last name Gerald F and uh we are here to to uh ask for two things uh one of the variants and one is the finding for a new property that we're planning on building on particular this particular lot um we have been residents you speak louder please sure we have been residents of Plum Island for over 22 years and uh we enjoy living on the island and uh because of Charlotte's disabilities right now we've been looking for a property where we could build a one level house with a garage and uh that would fit our needs and hopefully a lot of our uh living problems so we found a property at 11 and 15 Sunset Boulevard Sunset Drive sorry that we thought would meet our needs we consulted with attorneys and they all said oh looks like you could make it work for us the situation on that particular property is sort of unique and I think the property has a we got a significant hardship in that when the property was first subdivided back in 1923 it consisted of four lots and somewhere in the 60s and 70s because of some the the merger Doctrine two of the Lots were merged for 11 Sunset and two of the Lots were merged for 15 Sunset however the lot on 15 sunset uh as I understand it violated state law because it doesn't have access to a street or a viable method of access and so for all these years that property has been sort of unique it doesn't have access to a street uh currently the only way to get to the property is to go across property owned by sunset in addition the property has a house on it that was built in the 1890s and that house is um straddles the property line so a portion of the house is on 11 Sunset and another portion is on 15 Sunset so it's a it's got all kinds of title problems if you look at the house from uh any any method that you want it doesn't seem to be in the right spot and when they did the subdivision lines they uh obviously uh were in error and when they merged the properties the two lots together that was definitely an error because the lot doesn't have Frontage so we're here to get a variance requested by uh the building inspector uh through Town Council that this would be the methodology to uh resolve the issues with that particular lot and our proposal is to take one lot of the four that exist one lot from the two lots that make up 11 Sunset and add it to 15 Sunset this would solve the problem it would give access to Sunset from for the for uh 15 sunset in addition the house that's currently on 11 would not violate any of the piod dimensional requirements so that would be uh and we happen to own both properties so we can manage that situation easily so that's that's what our proposal is is that we take one of the four lots that got assigned to 11 subset and added to the two lots that make up 15 Sunset and that would add the three lots for for 15 Sunset and one lot for 11 Sunset that's the hardship that we have the the in so you brought this up to building inspector building inspector uh s Town Council to make sure the understanding of of what what needs to happen uh yes a pathway that that Town Council had outlined in terms of the property was that step one is that you would need a variance that's step one correct if a variance was granted then you go to the planning board and seek a um site plan review forrrr for what you'd like to do and if the planning board was in agreement um then you could then at that point the property lines and would be settled and you would then come back as for more standard application for just a most new structure on okay so for variances that are not governed by our bylaws chapter 97 of the Town 97 is the zoning bylaws the state um chapter 40 section 10 governs variances done so so that the that everybody across the state is doing um the same thing so with that in section 10 there are three requirements for um in which to make a case for a variance and they all deal with the the land and the topography exactly and being unique so have you laid out the course of action I mean you you say you had a hardship but I guess I'm looking for the the understanding of exactly how that hardship plays out to the three um the three elements in section 10 and if I could pull up section 10 if I have a copy does anybody need to see um have any questions while we're discussing this you have a site plan there we don't have an easel do we that just got easel so if we could just turn that around and you could actually put the plan up or if you wanted to put the plan on here in front of the camera but um so there's a chance for everyone to see what what's being presented this is are you suggesting we use it as an eel I think that's what we use or is that the other camera Cera camera I mean how about if I just I'll just here sure and Larry is there anything from the planning board's view of what I just curs laid out so what were the three requirements that uh hard [Applause] [Music] and this is Carol um let's see so section 10 variances the permanent granting Authority shall have the power in the after a public hearing for which the notice has been given by the publication and posting as provided in section 11 and and by mailing to all parties in interest to Grant upon appeal or upon petition with respect to particular land or structures a variance from from the terms of the applicable zoning ordinance or bylaw where such permit granting authorities specifically finds that owning to circumstances relating to the and here are the three relating to the soil conditions shape or Topography of such land or structures and especially affecting such land or structures that not affecting generally the zoning District in which it was located so in in overview they're they're simply saying that there's something about that particular land of that property which is different and not consistent with the rest of the neighborhood that would cause you to seek a variance to do something different like cause and effect right you had a lot and it was flat and all the other Lots in the neighborhood were flat couldn't have VAR okay so explain that part um especially affecting the land or structures but not affecting the generally of the zoning District by which it was located a literal enforcement of the provisions of the ordinance or bylaw would involve substantial hardship Financial or otherwise to the petitioner or applicant and that a desirable relief may be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without nullifying or substantially deating from the intent or purpose of such ordinance or bylaw except where local ordinances or bylaws shall explicitly permit variances for use no variance may be authorized for a use for activity not otherwise permitted in the district um and then it it it goes on for a couple more paragraphs but that's the me of the section yeah in this case we have two well we got um this violates chapter 48 in regards to the requirement for having Frontage on a street and also the structure that's currently on the property straddles two properties and U that's another according to what you read at least I interpret that to mean uh there's a hardship there because of uh existing structure so I think we are did you buy the two Lots at the same time or different times uh two the same time with they two different entities but you knew that it was a land locked lock land locked lock it is not uncom we knew it was land but I think the point the point that's trying to be made is that if you have a property that's half on your neighbor's property and you buy that you're and you you have um that lot is landlocked then you're buying a piece of property at that point in time that you can't do anything with so until you buy a second piece of property the chances of doing anything on the first property are are none M right the house already there you could live in the house for sure but you couldn't improve it or or do something well if we wanted to sell it you couldn't couldn't sell it and that's the case of okay so you were able to actually buy it at risk and then buy a second piece of property and and that's yeah part of the pathway that that's coming here so um you understand yeah completely would you explain that would you explain that to us so the the property at 15 has a residence on right that residence is a third over on on the currently property 11's property right so we happen to know that because it sister okay familiar with it the town can't come and take away a right that is currently there but the rights of the property owner to do something would be in in conflict because a they don't have Frontage two their house is on somebody else's lot and so you buying the piece of property you could live in it but you couldn't improve it right um you know every property has certain rights the piod helps to control those for a situation on Plum Island which for most of the property they don't meet the standard zoning anyway so we're just trying to get how we from point A to point B and the steps and the thought process here so we understand what's going on when you own a piece of property and you have a house on it and you buy the adjacent piece of property that doesn't have a house on it it s Larry jump in if I'm I'm getting this wrong but as the merger Doctrine says that if you own two Jo joint piece of property um they are then under common ownership they are then considered one lot so um so when the property was first made first set up when the property was then sort of re subdivided um two lots were made into one two lots were made into one so in buying the two lot Lots the request now is to basically subdivide one of the lots and add it to the other lot so take from this lot give it to this lot and the argument that's before us is that the lot that's that's being made smaller will still meet with the existing structure and I think you're proposing to do something to the debt in order to meet your side side the back size so comp yes so that it would be a compliant under the piod so if it would take its course and what we typically look at is we judge what comes before us against what else is in the neighborhood and the fact that what somebody wants to do is compliant or they're making it that much more compliant makes typical applications favorable if somebody wants to exacerbate or somebody wants to make a Conformity that's a non-starter that those applications don't go anywhere so for whatever what's going on if if one property with some minor revisions to it to the structure can be made compliant with piod one would think that that property is is acceptable the in the fact of of pulling out section 10 here which is from the state Massachusetts state law which which govern zoning and part of that sets up the Z the local zoning board we have our own zoning bylaws so variances are not in our bylaws they're in the state bylaw and the state controls it by saying again that the a variance to a specific and here we're talking about U either lack of Frontage um total size of of lot or setbacks that the piece of property is is different from its adjoining neighbors because of soil conditions of shape um topography um soil conditions shape and topography if if somebody had a piece of property and they wanted to build a house on it and they was ledge on half the property and they wanted put the house next to the ledge but not on top of the ledge we might consider that the ledge is unique to the neighborhood and therefore conditions alleged a big rock might be a a soil condition that would allow the variance to allow the structure to be placed slightly different from what the Z requires so that that's just an explanation okay so by making the presentation of what's before us I'm asking we're asking to understand the argument that's being made so that we understand that it's specifically meeting the intent of the state law that's where we are um and so in making some general explanation I started to explain about one piece of property and the step here is that although this they're they're seeking two things is one is they need a variance to rearrange the property if if we agree or allow that then it needs to go to the planning board and and run through a planning Board review process if that is successful then it would come back to us for what would be a more standard application of asking us for a special permit in order to put a new proposed structure and then they would tell us how it was designed and how it meets all the the regulations so again typically people in Plum Island who follow the piod and come before us have a fairly easy time getting their project approved when we have nuances of firsttime issues that come before us we have a little bit of discussion that's needed and and sometimes we need to understand the pathway of of what's happening to make sure we're doing things appropriately everybody has rights we're you know we're all new very residents here we're we're trying to do the best thing for everybody but we have checks and balances and controls that we're trying to meet so the first step is is really just understanding the properties and not really talking about what is proposed for the future at the moment right um one might argue that we should understand what's being proposed as as it relates but I think really we're just focused on the variance in the project okay okay so in the documentation you provided is there a site plan that shows where the Dartmouth drives or this is Dartmouth way here so that's not then is that this just where is dart dve on this is 11 this is 15 that's right see right there goes right through here okay through there and so your plan the survey plan for Mr Chandler shows the Road even though it doesn't exist yes here yes it's owned by the town I guess yes so it's it's a separate parel but there's no there's no asphalt here it's all that's right yeah trees I didn't realize it was a road a telephone Ser telephone po okay but the telephone lines electrical lines through there because it's a right away for utilities okay just clarifying what we're we're looking at so um I don't know if you'd like to read that for yourself but we're we're we're looking for you who will help from us to try to make the statement that that talks about the hardship of whether it's a soil condition um whether it's the shape of the land or whether it's topography that of such land that causes the issue before us to I would say the shape of the land is a significant issue because it doesn't AB a street if it were a different shape which could have happened at some point in the past these three could have been merged together and then you could have had access to Sunset but it didn't for some reason the it's it's the shape of the parel and the hardship is no access chapter 48 requires any lot that's subdivided has to have access they violate when they did this merger they violated that very law and I would say that's that's a hardship in addition American with Disabilities Act has to the board has to take into account the disabilities that we are facing with this development we're planning to do consider haven't got there yet we haven't got there yet but appreciate you saying that it's probably a big you know where when we get to what is proposed let's just focus on lots and and how we're swapping does everybody understand what's going where yes and what's being proposed in terms of the shape and it doesn't um there's no harm to any anybody if because because it's just one parcel that's being chopped up in a different manner it just provides access for that particular parcel Mr chair I think Mr Murphy has a comment yeah I was just going to ask yeah can I going to go a little different direction I'm confused about the ownership who owns 11 who owns 15 two different entities which we are owners of well one is if you put them in common ownership wouldn't merger uh you know you just get one big lot and wouldn't that solve you problem one you can only build one have one house on I mean the other option is to say Grant a variance to build two houses on one lot oh so you want to preserve the house that's already there yeah yeah so this this lot this house here this lot and this lot are now one lot this lot and this lot are one lot they want to take this piece and give it for this one so that these old three Lots now become one big lot this lot in the corner Remains the Same they take the deck off and supposedly it meets all the metrics of dimensional requirements of the piod so if this is not encumbered or HED or exacerbates any zoning dimensional requirements and could have been a a you know a pre-existing non-conforming house that meets the piod then the question for this lot these two that don't have the frontage because the the roadway is actually here he has a driveway here though right you have a driveway to get 15 no no there's a driveway here right well it cuts across so do you have an easement no there's no easement because so so could one not get an easement and then build on this lot an easement to this this property gives an easement to this property to drive across and then then they can build on this lot that's one path way yeah I guess okay the other thing obviously is if you have three lots and the lots are bigger then you can put a bigger house on although you wouldn't get an anr with that though if it didn't have the requ Sor I what you said could you it wouldn't be a buildable lot if you tore down that house so it wouldn't be a buildable lot right so can you describe an anr from a planning board an anr it's the general laws say that anytime you creating new Bots okay it comes under the subdivision control law subject to subdivision control unless you can demonstrate that you have the required Frontage and acreage and everything you need um uh to meet Zoning for the lot and then you can come before the planning board for an approval not required or anr endorsement on your plan I hope that was clear enough so by doing this and and setting up and shifting some property from one ownership technically from one property to the other if one person person owns everything but they're actually two separate trusts or entities and they're shifting property and then this comes back to the planning board would the planning board if if if if we have the variance yes if they had the variance because then they would become legal Lots you know for the variant and the planning Board review does does what just blesses it fil it's usually very simple in know you know no no public hearing nothing it's a very it's a very quick and profor almost so you guys do a quick review and it meets that checks all the boxes it is what you need Frontage you need you need to meet zoning which can be done either by literal compliance with the zoning or because you get a variance okay so in this process the variance in terms of of providing a variance would say that the proposed redivision of land is acceptable under the variance and we are giving a variance for the non-compliance of the frontage for that for that property yeah because the planning board would then look at this and say okay it's got this it's got that check check check it's got a variance for the frontage which it doesn't comply but it has a variance check and it and it would then become a la right it would it would think you can almost think of it as special Zoning for that lot and and we're just looking to see that it FES with the zoning and and has adequate access to is one of the other things so be looking for is there anything so and then so we're not talking about a structure on the lot we're really just talking about the lot so the lot lot has Frontage the lot has a h an area right it's not a guarantee that it's buildable I mean you you you know in a different s situation for example you'd still have to beet septic requirements and that type of thing of course that's not an issue on the island but just by way of example right so but but we don't get into that yeah we haven't G to conservation yeah we don't get into that you you would go to conservation right and we don't we don't get into that either we might point out that we think you'll have a different difficult time in conservation there's something that we'd like conservation to look at but we're not the body that that is responsible for reviewing and approving concom or are we the planning board for their special jurisdiction of what they have over so if what's the size of the combined three lots somewhere in here uh 2371 sare ft that's sound right that's the new that's the new oh the existing 14887 that and that's the existing for 15 yes the existing for 15 but neither neither lot if the relief is granted neither lot is going to comply with zone no 40 40,000 so you really need a variance in both LS right that's why you're here oh if if the the relief that you're requesting is granted I think you you you're still going to wind up with two lots different configurations but neither one of those lots going to meet the required Z because the underlying zoning is the AGR which is what 40,000 40,000 and and you're not going to meet that so what I'm saying is you would you probably need is a variance on both lots to make them comply with planning right because you you the one the one that has the house on it that will have the house on it um is going to be a separate law and it's going to be non-conforming you're taking two non-conforming lots and changing the into two other non-conformity yes right and so variances need to be granted in order for them to carry the nonconformity forward I wouldn't expect so I can't speak from The Building Commissioner but I would expect so so is it's nonconforming if you speak now the house right they're but they grandfather they're call legally nonconform yeah but they're Grand and we we can't allow an application to come in that wants to propose a new structure that would introduce a new non-conformity right so if you were to do this and you're basically introducing new nonconformities to 11 you would need a variance per 11 so what's the frontage um Jack on number 15 no we do the front it's stated is zero so what is the new Frontage 77 ft0 [Applause] all right so for lot 11 what is the area existing and then 39 is that for 11 this is for 15 was 11 here so the frontage for uh 15 is almost 300t that existing existing that was that was 11 11 is 300 all it goes as it FRS on two streets so what's it going to going to 180 11 11 180 300 so it's still comp still meets it still has more 100 yes what is the area of lot 11 it's just existing existing is 17,000 ft and what is the new area 8,000 8,500 okay so lot 11 would require a variance for the the lot area it would not require variance for the frontage because the reduction of Frontage still meets the requirement but is it nonconforming and still would it be foring area yeah so it' be a new we' be creating a new nonconforming it's it's half the size it was right but we if if if if we granted a variance then it would now be it would contined to be a new non-conform at the smaller r at the smaller smaller side so that would be a pathway for 11 we would then also look to say that the structure the sidey yard setbacks the f p the coverage all complies with the p and then one would say that what is being proposed for that lot is not any more detrimental to the neighborhood because it beats the intent piod and what we are doing is giving a variance for its its area are we able to ask questions or in a moment okay I will um for 15 which is zero Frontage well here it says for Frontage on 15 120 ft existing it does say that I wondered about that too there 120 ft well the 120 ft must so is that considered Frontage no no it doesn't well this is well it is but it isn't so the hardship of the land is that the the supposedly Frontage on what is a is a road that is deed or documented as a road but it doesn't exist as a road so the shape of the land if the town wants to finish the road you want to finish the road I don't want to finish it you want fill the road up to here no I don't do that see that that's path I think that would never happen conservation would never do does kind of defeat theod for reducing impervious materials so that that's what's before us there there's two properties here and the two properties have different conditions which are existing in which will'll be new and on 11 it seems like we would granted variance for the area of the lot assuming everything else checks out and and on 15 we would be um granting a variance for the area of the lot and we would be granting a variance for the frontage exactly those were the two conditions that the building inspector put in our Deni those were the two conditions that we had yes I've worked with him in Town Council for several months to come up with this procedure on August 28 Leisa wrote a very comprehensive four-page memo outlining the the steps of the pre pre prerequisites to a division in terms of understanding how the the variance needed to happen before there was any discussion of any proposed house that we couldn't Grant a special permit and do this all at the same time yes because the variance needs planning board approval step two and assuming it gets plan approval then it would be back before us with the proposed structure that's on the that makes sense okay so we think we have a good understanding um do you guys have any questions no are we going to what are we doing are we asking the applicant to come back with we we are going to open we're going to go through our questions first we're going to ask the public here if they have have comments to make on this we're going to keep the comments to the idea of what's proposed for the lots and the idea of how and why variant might or might not be granted um and then we'll see where that takes us to a motion or if we have other questions or if we need more information or what all right so so with that I'd like to ask if there's anybody in the audience that would like to speak in favor okay none at the moment I gave you all that was in opposition to yes is there anybody here in the audience that would like to speak against the project or or just has general questions whatsoever yes okay I'm Margaret Thomas and I'm actually in butter for two pieces of land next to you or one year I'm in a butter on 14 and on 38 dness so I'm very the road going into darkness as well if you could come up here and talk from here so I can hear so my comments had to do with um I own two pieces of property there I bought the uh 38 Dart because it was um unbuildable because there's no Road into it and because I didn't want it built on and I wanted the the wildlife to be able to come and go I know we're not supposed to be talking about the housing you change the lot size you're then allowing a larger house and my concern is the larger house on this land is going to impact the current um uh Wildlife that are there I mean I sit there and I watch it all the time but setting that one aside number one is the house at 11: the um access to the driveway is not on Sunset it's on brenmar and does that make a difference in terms of Frontage so you're saying it has Frontage but it doesn't go into the road that you're supposed to so why is that any different from what they're asking for the typically if you have a house and it has it's on two streets and technically two fronted even though there's a perceived direction to the house you can claim which which road you'd like to use as front and I understand that so if you look at the property the current configuration they do have access to the house it may not be the hund and whatever the requirement is on Sunset but you add that to what they have where they where they come into it there is more than enough room for them to have they actually have had a driveway for you know 50 years so we know that there's access there so if they can have the road um on on 11 go into brenmar they could do the same thing on a on a and not dark way is what I'm asking way doesn't exist no I understand that but you your Frontage can be included you know it doesn't it's not that it just completely stops it no no no I I know no it's it doesn't the property 4 15 does not touch sunset at all does not and so the driveway that's been there for go goes through 11 right and that could be done as the variance and the thing is is that this issue is not a new issue we all know that I think every one of us has gone through this exact same issue with our own homes on Columbia way and brenmar you know in my case we had to pick up our house and mov it so you know if the the property lines and the way that you described it that's the entire Island and it happened everywhere so that to me is not a particular hardship everybody had to figure out how to handle it so and I know um that you said that we're talking about the variance my concern is the variance then makes this a huge lot of 23,000 ft lot which then allows you to put up a 3500 Square ft building which is huge in comparison to everything that's in the neighborhood already that's not true there are buildings that size in the neighbor in that neighborhood in that neighborhood yes than their home well not other there are houses of that size there not it's not any different as a single story home spreading across the land yes that our goal is to have a single story house understand Margaret Margaret thank you um let's make your make your point and then we can we we will uh know what to discuss again my point is that if you you provide this variance you're allowing for this greatly huge house to be built that is really going to impact all of the land that's around it and that's my biggest concern noted is there anybody else that has a question or would like to speak I don't know um if this you state your name and your addressan again six br way and I just want to attest to the fact that my has already said there has been access to that little house for over 50 years from since that Sunset Drive thank you also just as a matter of fact of Plum Island being Plum Island the previous owner did not change anything from what she had in the beginning because she just did not intend for it to be two separate Lots she owned it and that's the way it was she liked the fact that she owned all of that it did not matter to her that it be divided into two separate Lots understood she didn't pursue it if it's sold and there's no right deed restrictions then then you know her her wishes and thoughts are not carried forward unless there's some something that runs with the D but appreciate your your comments on that else no okay um do any comments I'd like to be convinced a little bit more on the hardship it seems like the hardship with going with is based on the soil excuse me the shape more than the soil of topography and um to simplify I think the hardship is caused by uh wanting to make two lots if if there's one lot then there's no hardship we got plenty of crage so so this was a standard Plum Island situation where you tear down a small house and a big house which we do build a more modern house which we do all the time there'd be no issue I'm not suppos to anyone using their land for the highest benefit I just want to be convinced that there's actual hardship I I don't think if you tore down that little house you could rebuild because it wouldn't have Frontage I I was just using that as an example I wasn't talking about that specific lot okay we did have a while back the end of um Pearson Drive where we had the three properties they all had a minimal amount of Frontage uh and the one lot that didn't build at the time of the development lost their rights after eight years for the for the conditions of the subdivision that were granted at the time and think the only pathway was get Amusement from somebody else or someone else to access your property because as it physically exists doesn't comply so we can't do anything with it right so here we have another piece of property as it exists so a lot even though it's two older Lots it's still one lot that has has a driveway off of sunset over dark way so um a path forward is you you could build on that lot if you gave yourself an easement from 11 to um 15 the the driving over Dartmouth way wouldn't be a harm or a foul because it's a public way and as long as you're not parking in the public way you would have a small easement to drive over what is existing of 11 to get to that piece of property and I guess that is that is the Crux of the issue of of granting and increasing the size of the property then allows you to be build a much bigger house and so the question um in terms of the piod which we govern everything by is is what is proposed in keeping with the surrounding neighborhood and it's it's it's been our um um it's been up to us to decide what exactly is the neighborhood and it's not all Plum Island it's not necessarily all the adjacent houses it's it's the setting in which the the property sits and typically that deals with uh people who have non-conformities where the house is much closer to or there's an existing building line that they're trying to build to and so we're we're trying to see is that is it already existing down the street then then your piece of property wouldn't be any different than anybody others so we would tend to grant grant that as a special permit or a finding so although I said we're talking about the Lots the the effort to do what you want to do then does grant you the ability to build a certain size house which is not would not be um allowable for the size of the lot that currently exists so understanding how you're subdividing the the Lots L is a question for you could could the lot so the lot R what is being proposed is being based on Old lot lines yeah does that have a h me to the difference of anything or can they just draw a line down the piece of paper and say we like to do this with this yeah it would be a lot easier if we had something we could all look at together but if I understand it what you're proposing to do is is you have um a point where it says iron pipe found and then 9.75 ft internal lock line and maybe you could help us with this what what you want to do is is basically this is your existing lock line correct yes all right and what you want to do is you want to move this lock onine over here yes okay and do we know when you do that how many square feet is this new lock going to be soon soon that it's the relief is granted it's 23 23,000 okay so it's still not going to get anywhere close to the 40,000 okay so you reducing the size of this one increasing the size of this one but they're both nonconforming they both be nonconforming it looks like you have your Frontage you only have 77 but it doesn't have frage 125t has 77 here oh okay un unless you can unless you can carry the frontage I'm not sure can't carry the frontage onto darkmouth way way no I I understand that just in terms technical compliance with you know this would be a great law school event question really our bad L we're not we're not well it still comes down to it I guess I mean you know uh and in terms of shape so conditions or topography shape my feeling is the shape of lot and it doesn't comply with state law requiring a requiring frage to have a lot right it's nonu and if we this down be issues uh we have to what do we do uh I mean plus it's on the other so because they made an error when they subdivided this or they merged the Lots that's my argument well that that happened as a matter of law nobody said we were going to merge these Lots as a matter of law because of these were common ownership that the select board didn't vote on it or the planning board didn't vot I would have think I would have thought they would have merged these three lots because this house is on two of the Lots why would you are these separate Lots right now no that's that's one lot this another lot is on the dash line is an old lot line it forget it even is on this plan the dash lines are previous oh this one is I understand this one and this one were lot lines uh for the subdivision 1923 and this house existed before 1923 and the these were merged and these were merged these merged these merg is they should have mared these three because well they would have had Theon ownership at the time before they yes yes I think they weren ownersh was one owner that all so we have an existing condition before us this is what's here and there's there's there's there's a couple points one is 11 if if this was done the way it was shown is 11 do property 11 have uh be perceived as having a pre-existing non-conforming plot that means the piod in everything but size that's one two the size of the lot you're asking for is dictating the size or allowability of the size of the house that you are planning to build yes yes the fact that you chose the old plot line in which to swap back and forth is is um is arbitrary to your decision of what you would like to do well it seemed logical see right seemed logical but still you could have cut this slot in half and given more more property back to this one and a little less property back to this one or you could have split it 50/50 across across the two lots right we we uh could have made a park job sh just to get the frontage I guess as well yes there were an infinite number of methods to do it but it seemed that the original subdivision made the most sense so understanding that the the choice of how what you made how to get here yeah um then it still seems that you property 11 could give property 15 an easement over their property as minimal as it is for the existing condition and access would be provided to 15 the variance would be that the frontage is provided VI a variance if it's one resident giving another Resident you're not giving a variance for use you're just extending access and that is agreeable if one was commercial and one was residential you couldn't give up your property for residential means for commercial means on your residential property because You' be granting U an easement that deals with use as opposed to just access is my understanding so we have that and then to me and and the if you grant an e to 15 it would not because still be an illegal lawn you couldn't build on it if even if you granted e to it because it doesn't have FR it violate state law as currently configured as currently configured that's why you're asking that's why I'm asking for the relief well um you know and crazier things have happened but could Dartmouth way be and has that been asked to comcom if if there's any way that you could get some relief or extend or at least make dirt way uh dir I tried that on another property Gerard Way several years ago I remember that no way okay connect you know Gerard Way has two sections with a small area of that so so that's impossible it's funny because Mr Martell one of the uh ABS who wrote a letter in opposition he suggested that same thing use just a little bit of dark so we have several letters and if you want to we're going to take a minute and we're going to read some letters that were received into the record at this time we have them okay uh we are this George and Donna finan uh we are long-term residents of pine the B family has lived at s Byron bin way for over 70 years spaning three generation of property in question was owned by our in-laws The Proposal made by uh Gerald fidi while quite beautiful presents a problem for our house which is situated behind the designated development the issue is the location of the garage and driveway we anticipate noise headlights issues that would impact on the placement of our main living area on the first floor and our master bedroom on the second floor of our home it is our hope that the garage would be moved to the front of the house that all access from the street but without the servance to the environment nor to us Paula Irving I'm writing this a letter to express my opposition in granting a variance of special permit to the property is located 11 and 15 Sunset tribe from Island request for the variance special are not due to Unique hardship but for the purpose of taking land from one lot thus making it even smaller in order to remove 951 square foot footprint one bedroom one bathroom and replace it with two bedrooms or three if the studio should count as additional bedrooms two full baths to half baths 478 sare ft foot home if any hardship is found to exist regarding law Frontage I believe alternative design Solutions should be found to comply with zing and L the environment impact of development of gradual ecosystem the surrounding area 11:15 so a drive is heavily vegetated home to a vast variety of wildlife um that depends on small pockets of green space left to survive zoning laws are replaced to in part to protect and maintain character of The Island preserve natural habitats and Main and manage the impact of infrastructural water and sewage capacity granting variances that result in development of larger homes and removal of regation in alterations of Dunes have a negative effect on the island regarding the Quest for special perit as in letter also concerned with the height of 47.3 Ft as noted in the plan which clearly exceeds the current zoning limits of 35 which obstruct Sunset use for my property our other concerns are the size of the structure driveways that impacts the environment surrounding trees Dunes exterior lighting that could shine into the direction of my home my board to deny variant special permit okay um J Martel uh please accept this as submitted for the zba meeting November 21st 2024 in reference to 11:15 Sunset I was born and raised on Plum Island for almost five decades I've had a vested interest in maintaining preserving beautiful Serene Queen atmosphere at the island provides to its residents proudly still to this day I maintain a real estate interest that I wish to continue this beautiful island for my family and generations Beyond as well as every visitor to come I appreciate the opportunity of the Z board in affording myself my community to discuss this application neighborhood surrounding 11 15 Sun Drive for almost 5 decades has been encompassed by tighted family atmosphere being comprised by a small number of longstanding generation residents neighborhood has been mostly undisturbed during those Decades of ownership by families who value the Coastal Community we have inherited for Generations the proposed project by the applicant I feel I personally feel will bring in an extreme detrimental impact on the neighborhood as potentially setting a groundbreaking new detrimental PR precedent over over over building destroying the coastal environment we live in and by now not only building up to avoid flood flooding but now building out to destroy the natural landscape of this pristine Beach area I feel the CBA should fully consider all the significant impacts this project presents in the future of Plum Island not with understanding that the intent and spirit of P was to continue to preserve open space limit the expansion of non performing single and two structures as it is to prevent the exacerbation of existing problems with density intensity of use and destruction of coastal areas we live with zba variances are not placed without Property Owners to recreate bylaws to suit their personal family needs as the applicants have indicated applicants should be in our encourage to work within the bylaws to make minor modifications that are not detrimental to Neighborhood environment and spe by the bylaws of Australian Community applicant CLA they requireed a single number of properties which is Ada accessible and this is the ideal location is telling us they have other properties they own seven Hutchins amongst others that would be a similar build with less detriment to the environment and be more streamlining project the applicant have shown that by their previous property acquisition of P they should be keenly aware of the coastal area we have tried collectively to protect for decades as they previous may have been afforded great leeway with building and obtaining relief for projects in their Urban Hospitality projects for gain we are not dealing with as bike Lanes on from Island additionally there are actions of fully remodeling the interior and reconstruction the overbuild exterior decks and flitting on property at 11 Sunset went under the radar of the inspection department this now looks like a reconstruction of the decade 11 such that was done to allow for a driveway to be placed directly on the lot line of three abing lots and pavy way for the destruction of a significant area of coastal D area which the laws prohibit the applicants are petitioning the zba for detrimental hardship relief and knew the extent of relief they would need prior to this acquisition and are seeking detrimental relief through the board as a planned redevelop and this Redevelopment is in no means the best interest of nor the immedate community we agree with our neighbors and the disappointment that the applicant have chose to bring this project forward we hopefully the others will have the encourage to forward to oppose this the applicant has every right to bring the project forward AB Butters have every right to be heard in opposition we would like to raise a few of the following points to have the applicat response or at least have the board consider impacts of importance the applicant uh claimed that the lot is il illegal lot if that is the case it should be considered unbuildable lot the detriment of this application is exponentially increased with the attempt to permit 15 Sunset Drive all the to mask it as a poort attemp suggest it will make the lot more conforming the lot at 11 Sunset Drive will now become less conforming all in the spirit a masking of 15 Sunset becoming a more conforming lot as to Frontage however all this done is trading one for another by redrawing a lot of 15 Sunset to Creek font is now making 11 Sunset substantially and detrimentally more nonconforming to a lot size both Lots require 400,000 square foot by redrawing the lot lines at 15 11 is now being reduced in lot area by 177,000 ft to aasly 8 8,000 ft taking it from almost half of the conforming Dimension to a quarter additionally now the lot 15 is barely staying under the side setbacks Now by 1/10th of a foot and reducing from 50 to a minimum of 10 and increasing the maximum lot coverage from 4 to 15% the applicant calls for the increasing lot size of 15 Sunset Drive we drawing almost 300% 6.4% to 19.8 as well as doubling the Heth for the special permit application as well as four times the increase of R according to the P PID additional bedrooms one additional bedroom may be created in a lawful pre-existing non-conforming single or two family structure with one or two bedrooms subject to the applicable regulations set forth in subsection 97 looking to add one bedroom not to a two bed plus additional room of a studio the applicant have proposed two bedroom single family dwelling which is well in the right however it seems that though there's potentially an Adu mask as a studio in these plans which would indicate this property will contain three bedrooms which is outside the guidelines of the poig the applicants claim that the Lots need to be redrawn due to lack of Frontage of the lot of 15 Sunset Drive we question that although Dar D is not completed right away is it in fact a paper street by the town bylaws by that property should be afforded the frontage of Dartmouth way now negating the need for any redrawing of lot and only necessitating a variance of theage on D way has has the town been afforded the opportunity to evaluate the possibility of developing the row on Dartmouth way and has the town and applicant complied with poid 97 4D identified below no no building permit shall be issued for Lots with Frontage on an unconstructed way which is not qualified as a street until the planning board approves the plan prepared by the applicant demonstrating that the proposed way is sufficient with civil grades to provide for the need of vehicular traffic in relations to the proposed use of land AB buding there on or serve thereby and for the insulation of Municipal services to serve such land and the building erected to be erected there on the first course of pavement for such way has been installed in ACC cours with such plans as certified and rightly by the planning board no certificate o shall be issued for such a lot until the second and final course of payment has been installed in according such plan is certified and writing by the planning board a lot of 15 Sunset is only landlocked on paper however if dark way was completed then the lot would no longer be landlocked the town should reserve the right to evaluate the completion of D way not allow variance based on a claim the slot is landlock and so compliant with Frontage on D way although as the applican states there are no view impacts of the butters the impact of this project P Inc come in many other ways and are significantly more detrimental to the existing property and not in the spirit of bod significantly more detri detrimental board of appeals finds the proposed use is not more detrimental than the current use the board should find that this project as proposed is significant more detriment detrimental than the existing and current use the zba should strongly encour the opp to reconsider this application withdrawal it as proposed this would afford the applicate the ability to return to the zba with a much less detrimental plan a new submission should come before the zba with a plan more in the spirit of the piod I would again caution the zba that this will present a new precedence for f future applications as to the newer style of building out not up which will exponentially more destructive to the fragile Coast make up of pal Island there's one more Mario I'll give you a break uh this is from M Thomas who I believe is with us tonight Margaret Thomas um my family has owned the 14 Columbia Way property since 1969 I now own both 14 Columbia way and 38 Dartmouth way I purchased Dartmouth way in 2018 to Ure the property would be maintained as open land and allowing the enjoyment of neighbors and Wildlife the proposed Plans by Gerald fandetti in Charlotte foresight of a 3500 ft structure directly impacts the beauty of some of the last open space on the populated side of PL Island this will have a negative impact on Wildlife including turkeys rabbits Birds and the occasional coyote in addition I take great pleasure in looking over the marsh which will be significantly reduced by the proposed 43 .7t structure I understand the need for a single level home for an aging parent my own mother lived at 14 Columbia with 23 steps from outside to her living space until she was 95 years old in 2022 a review of the proposed plans more than addresses The Single Living need and could be scaled back to better fit the current law Mr fandetti and Miss for are addressing the same boundary line boundary line issues that all of Butters have had to deal with in my case the house was moved to clear property lines in reviewing the request there may be other ways to address their concerns perhaps a variance regarding Frontage or a change in address for 15 Sunset to make it the permanent address it is my hope that the board does what is in the best interest of the environment and keep Plum Island a wildlife sanctuary for the enjoyment of all excellent all right um so let's just figure out what we're what we're what's recap figure out where we are and and what we need to do um finish taking some please okay so um hearing the applicants U proposed what their intent is hearing discussion and people having the letters before us and and looking at the plans having a discussion having lar helped us out with some some terms of procedures um the intent before us is to um take two properties and redivide the property line to make one bigger and one smaller so one of the things that that would need to be understood is that the lot that gets made smaller um we would need to to find we need to understand what are so okay so the next thing is once somebody if somebody changes lot lines however they do it and and changes the shape of for current lot they then they then lose all pre-existing non-conform raes on that lot the lot is basically reset now in order to do that it would need some variances in order to give it new pre-existing nonconformities to allow that to happen because we cannot create non-conformity so we can do a variance to create nonconformity that exists is that clear so far MH okay so and doing that does lot 11 and being smaller truly meet being end of the piod that's a question two in creating a bigger Lot Number 15 we would then be setting up to and for the intent is that the bigger lot would allow a bigger newer structure on that l so in thinking this through towards where where this is going we would then be asked to review a new structure on the larger lot and decide if it meets the piod and basically is it in keeping with the surrounding neighorhood for the dimensional requirements that it now proposes so we're at the point where the variance is argued that the shape of the land does not have Frontage and this proposed new larger lot is giving it Frontage which allows that lot to be buildable okay so and it would still have it would still be not conforming in terms of the frontage and so a variance would need to be S just for uh for the size of the lot um and the front in thinking this through if we we do now I think need to understand what is proposed because if we Grant a lot line size change and 11 checks out then we've basically granted what would be allowable under the piod dimensional requirements for the new larger lot so far um and it seems clear after all the discussion that we had that you uh an older lot line in which to use as a as the line to be moved or swapped back and forth between the properties uh and perhaps there could be a different line that's drawn to give more equal size to both properties um and the whole premise of what we would allow for a special permit is based on the circumstances of is it in keeping with the existing surrounding neighborhood so what we have is we have the property we have the lot we have photos we have surveyors um information we have the one lot we have the other lot we have all the numbers that were calculated by a St a licensed uh civil engineer but what we don't have me is we don't have the bigger adjacent neighborhood to say how these two lots are in keeping with the joining properties and basically what the piod is saying is that it understands that the all the prop or a lot of the properties almost all the properties uh run or have conditions of pre-existing non-conforming and so as to give Property Owners rights in which to do something the um judgment that we have again in terms of keeping with the neighborhood is to try to allow equal rights to adjacent neighbors we are not through the dimensional criteria trying to penalize somebody in in an adjacent lot for um and and actually give them more rights because of the adjacent Lots also have non-conforming and if you're building in a similar non-conforming then there's more of there is a unified neighborhood and so everybody is is equal we're not granting somebody something special each time it comes before us and we're at our wi to judge the specialness of it we are judging it against the existing neighborhood which in in practice is good sound that if if all the houses have 5 ft from the from the roadway that the front set back is supposed to be 20 ft and all the houses are 5T and you've got ft and 5T and you're building a new one and you want to build it at 5 ft and you're carrying that building line that is acceptable because you're consist you have consistency um so to me what would sort of clear the path for understanding and decision is that we would have some means to to understand the neighborhood to say that what you're proposing to minimize on lot 11 is you know somewhat consistent with the existing neighborhood and what you would be proposing on lot 15 would also be within keeping of the neighborhood and if if one or the other wasn't in keeping then you could move the lot line and change the area and and make make both lots more in keeping with the neighborhood and then we would be um then we would be asked to provide a VAR variances for both properties to extend the nonconformities of the new property understanding that the structures either existing or proposed new would be in keeping with the neighborhood and if we did this and it went if we gave you a variance tonight on both properties and then you went to the planning board and the planning board went yep thumbs up and you come back to us and we look at the neighborhood and say oh uhoh then we'd be more in a pickle than than where we'd be right now so pickle it is a pickle you know we're like I said we're all residents we want to be helpful we want we want to provide you the rights that you have but also provide you all the rights that everybody else has and and we're not looking to give you anything that's above and beyond special that nobody else could have a pass to have as well can I make a comment in that regard so one second so am I clear in my thought process here I haven't gotten to what I'm asking but we've gotten this far am i following path letter yeah follow okay so it would seem that that as I'm saying is I think I'm asking for more of the neighborhood to understand what else is going on in the street and on the properties adjacent to you to understand what you're you're asking for so with that if you have comments um my experience in the area excuse me um there over the years there have been additions and subtractions to Lots in the neighborhood and what has happened over the years there's a an imation of lots some are small some are larger there is not a consistency of size that was originally subdivided in 1923 23 26 whenever was long time ago it uh it's all changed and a lot of that change occurred before the merger Doctrine existed so in a situation where I I I I'm sympathetic to your argument and it makes sense but the fact is that that neighborhood uh there's a there are several large Lots in that neighborhood there are so many small Lots in that neighborhood and if we start looking at oh okay where what is the mean lot is is that the correct way to view it or are you saying we what is the is there a m a formula to look at the Lots so we can make a determination well what do you what do you we're asking try to understand what you're asking well you kind of said it we're asking you to make the argument and come back to us and say look here's the immediate neighborhood this is what we consider all the neighbors to be there are lots of equal size of what we're proposing and there are lots of equal size of what we're proposing for 11 and if you take the 15 houses 10 houses whatever within the immediate area there are there are five that are just like lot 11 and there are two that are going to be like our new lot 15 so and with that understanding and and how those houses our position then what you're proposing after this is all said and done would fit right in with the neighborhood if for some reason the the lot that you are proposing is the biggest lot of every of of everything then you're you're you're stretching the boundaries of what is in the neighborhood and if if lot lot 11 becomes the smallest lot you are pushing the boundaries of what is in the neighborhood so if you could look at that and make that argument just present that back to us then then we can say well you're you're 11 fits right in with these three houses and 15 fits in with these two properties it seems like it fits in with the neighborhood yeah that that is and that is the ultimate leeway sway that we have for judging because if you have a piece of property again and your your neighbor's 5T from the road and I say you have to be 25 ft back and then that pushes you up against the property line and it makes your house half the size of your neighbor you got the same lot there's is pre-existing non-conforming basically what we're trying to do is saying well you're going to build new and you're going to take your pre-existing non-conforming and keep them you're not going to be more any more detrimental but you're going to be in keeping everybody's got the same thing that that's our okay overlying premise does that make sense Mak sense okay I just was asking for a clarification on the lot size I can tell you that the two lots I own when they get combined it'll be about 15,000 square ft but the amount of land that I'm that's buildable on it is significantly less so when we talk about the other size other large Lots there are several of and I do understand there are other large Lots in the area but most of them do not have or all of them don't have they have a huge portion of it that's not buildable so as he does his assessment it would be great to understand how much of it is actually built on versus the the the better the understanding of the neighborhood and all facets and everything that applies to the p piod and the the the better the argument is made that these two New Lots will be in keeping with several and not at not pushing the extremes at either end is is a way to say that that what you're proposing will fit in with with everybody else and the fact that you know unfortunately the fact that somebody has a piece of property that sits on the in front of another piece of property and may block a view they have just as much right to build it if if it meets the intent of the piod and so what we're trying to understand is that is is the shape of the new lot in keeping with the neighborhood and therefore the size of the house is going to be in keeping with the neighborhood and therefore you have equal rights even though your properties are different sizes to do what you're intending all right I'm just going to say um our the first we built on Southern Boulevard when we first built the house I had views everywhere now there's no views at all because that a house washed into the ocean they built up house um behind us I had we had a nice window to look out saw so no it's gone because somebody built up and I didn't I didn't want to build up I want to build low and um understood and we have we're usually people figure out what's in keeping and and they figure out what's within the piod and they they typically with some questions or comments or maybe some tweaks are are approved but we have um we have denied or or yeah we have basically told people that some that their premise uh last year that what they were imposing was too tall because it wasn't inke keeping with the neighborhood Andor what was that you said that last thing you said we had denied an applicant for building a bigger house a bigger house bigger taller house yeah yeah um because it wasn't in keeping with the neighborhood and it it it just was out of out of scale and out of shape thing is we building a lower house could be inconsistent with the neighborhood is that what you're saying no and a lot there a lot of wonderful trees in that and we're preserving all those trees so in way you won't even see the house they won't impact all all good arguments when we get to the house but I think what we're trying to do is make sure that the lot is consistent with the is consistent with the neighborhood that would allow you then to to build a house or new structure that is consistent with the neighborhood I one argument if we reconfigured the lot as we have it now we can still build a house a low house if we want to build it there yeah I I think we're I think the every intent is to try to figure out out how to reshape the lot so that you can build some some sort of house the question is how big is that house and where is it positioned and if the lot size dictates how big the house can be then we need to just we don't want to change the lot and give you a bigger lot giving you a bigger structure that then is is bigger than everything else in the neighborhood there's still a lot of land around this house and it's going to be dled into you know I understand and I I'm we know we're not we're not quite on your house we're we're we're on the concepts of figuring out if we were to Grant Varan is are we making lot 11 too small and are we making lot 11 too big and therefore we've just made two lots that are different from other Lots around and effectively changed the essence of the neighborhood if if you're in keeping and maybe that lot line shifts over I know 5 ft or something like that and you and you still have the metrics for what you're proposing it could all just work out did I hear somebody say about eement to might be the best way to do that to did I hear you say that I I didn't I brought that up I'm not a lawyer I'm not 100% sure that was a good comment that even if you have an easement it's still a landlocked but if you gave yourself an easement and we um you know Dartmouth way although it's a paper way is still a way if you had legal easement to get from Sunset Boulevard to access the property you have access it's going to be so I I think our path forward here uh Mr fandetti is to continue this and ask you to do a study of what you would present as the neighborhood and show the lots and the position of the houses and show that your your two lots that you are proposing to create are within the bounds of the neighborhood okay and and then we have something which is equal and fair to all the other neighbors to to provide you something similar to what other neighbors have not exactly and you know not everyone owns the same size of lot and not everyone owns the same lot in the same location so we're really looking in terms of of of size that the new lot would be and the smaller size of what the new lot question when when the neighborhood that includes all those green cards that we sent out to everybody that we got sent back that's where the neighborhood the neighborhood is Loosely defined right we we that's what I wanted to know we sometimes look in certain locations that the neighborhood really is just the two adjoining houses because that's that's all that's immediately right there other times it's a little bigger spread out and there's a street and there's five or six or 10 houses on it and there's some consistency with the 10 houses and someone is proposing something a little different and if you're looking to gain the same non-conforming consistency then we we that's how we judge and the bylaw is set up the piod is set up that way to give us a really wide range of jurisdiction and understanding and try to balance out these non-conformances and inconsistencies to allow people to develop their property in a way that's favorable to to what you want to do but also have similar rights or same rights for the people who are next year right so and we don't we don't say we set precedence but we don't want to do something that is atypical and you're the one off on Plum Island and then someone's saying well they did it and we're like yeah but it does so we're not we're not tryone know with the neighborhood what you think the neighborhood is it's like adjacent houses or the The Wider neighborhood that as somebody was saying there there's so much inconsistency from I would leave that up to you to decide what your best argument is for the neighborhood and and reason why it is pal island is a neighborhood true but again I'm trying to tell you that we have great Liberty in deciding what that yes and when I've gone to Town Council and said holy cow this is a tough one I Town Council says Eric what is the neighborhood that this is being applied against how is this consistent or non-consistent with quote the neighborhood so if it's one adjoining house if it's 10 adjoining houses if it's all Northern Boulevard you just got to make an argument and then then we can explain to everybody and understand that we're providing something that other people have why wouldn't you be able to have something that other people have that's that's this is this is the architect that's working with my husband the architect so okay I just want to say I think it is a beautiful looking house okay and I appreciate it that it's one level house especially we we also have the issues with stairs so I appreciate you're having desire to have a one level house but it isn't low it's on still well that's that's the other issue it it will be a high house understood and I understand there were lots of questions about the height of structures and so in that driveway situation of access to the property right so a height of building per our bylaws say that you take the average grade G grade around the perimeter of the house right and if your house is on a flat piece of property then it's pretty easy if your house is on a piece property and one corner is at 10 ft and one corner is at 8 ft then the average grade typically is about 9 ft sure so from that point to 35 ft is to the midpoint of the highest roof now we have some people that come in here and they put like a little coupla on and and or they they make a longer roof a longer yeah taller longer roof because that then moves The Hideout it's not to the ridge but to the midpoint the halfway point of the roof uh and and you know cretive people do some creative things but we're we're we're looking at that so is if somebody's looking at some of the numbers and they're saying the the ridge line is at elevation 43 that's just the elev the height of of the elevation it's not the height of the roof and it's not the height of the midpoint of the roof the height isn't what I'm um going to be bringing up in the next phase of this when it comes to the house it's the access that will bring that access to the back of the house which will be at that high point and in order to get into this house there's going to be a ramp that is going to go into that garage to make it level with the house that's going to be the issue that we will be contested okay and when when we get the issues about we we have some perview and and appreciate what is fully presented to us by the design by the owner by the design Professionals for what they're creating and what they're seeking and there there are certain things of whether like we've had people saying they're destroying a dune and we can kind of sort of see it but that's really not our purview to manage that's the concom that would do that so um sometimes we pass things and make conditions other times we say this is so precarious it would be in your best interest to go to comcom first before you come to us but we don't and and again there's the planning board there's the zoning board and there's the Conservation Commission and each one has a slightly different purview so I'm just setting that up because we I may come back and say I appreciate your comment but it's not really something that we can control or govern or uh have the by bylaws really aren't what we're talking to I hope that's clear and I hope I've I've I've done enough to explain what we're doing how we're doing it and how we're thinking here you have thank you okay so with that I would ask I'm going to ask for a motion that we continue and that we ask you to provide um and do an analysis of the quote neighborhood as you would Define it to show that both lot 11 and lot 15 are within the bounds um and are not more detrimental to the existing and surrounding NE is what we typically say sure Eric before you do that could I make one other point this is just a purely technical level without offering oping one way or the other on the variance but I think if the assuming the variance is granted if this came before the planing board for anr on this paperwork I think we' have a problem problem with it and the reason is the applicant is um Gerald and Charlotte Trustees of the is it red wing trust I believe but it also impacts number 11 which is held in a separate entity the trustees of the black bird trust right um so I think we would have a problem granting an anr if the trustees of the Blackbird trust weren't part of this if they weren't applicants what I'm where I'm going I suggest that somebody talk to the building inspector or even Town Council to see if the blackb trust shouldn't be added as a petition petitioner here because remember you're affecting the rights that they're two separate entities legal entities and you're affecting the rights of both so so I mean I'm guessing it would just be a matter of amending the petition but I don't think it's a big deal so Peter berett asked Town Council about this and had a discussion yeah Town Council wrote on August 28th 2024 a four-page memo about procedures for divisions and outlining the fact that you can't do this before that and that you would have to go to the planning board but you would need variances and and like that so Mr fenny do you have a copy of this yes okay so and my bad if I sent it out but I would I I did receive this I did read it I was impressed by the the legal East but also the clarity of thought to just simply step all the way through it and so the matter before us really became that there was a pathway that was presented to the applicant the building inspector had gotten clarification as had to direct the applicant and here we are with the applicant seeking a variance first understanding that they have to go to the planning board before they come back to us so I didn't think it was matter of process that that already the pathway was already agreed to and understood by the parties that we needed to to understand this um what it comes down to though is that it seems that we just don't have enough information or an argument made to us to reason how this is in keeping as we would typically do with any property submitted any proposed property changes structures presented to us okay okay all right so with that yeah I make a motion to continue the meeting so to gather additional information um on the Jon neighborhood as it relates to lot siid and some of the other details we discussed evening um so as to keep with second all right all those in favor so thank you for bearing with us this is oh no thank you so much it's been it's been interesting he a government work we're we're trying hard for no you really everybody and trying to hear everybody and it's we don't we don't deal with this every day and the other thing I I should say is that we're only three member board we do not have any discussions on any applications outside this okay so we don't have the benefit of having a hurger and sitting down and kind of reasoning this out and trying to think it through so sometimes it comes across as very disjointed that we're kind of fumbling and bubbling and we are because we're trying to that was interesting so we're still going to build here but we just have to figure out how to do it right yes you you I think you got a pathway the question is is do you have a pathway that's in keep that is sure neighborhood but we've Liv in P I've been coming to P since I fishes the beach when the beach is enormous my little kids now my kids in 50 so we can let's hope it gets back [Music] er er Mario Mario ja Kelly Larry Murphy I'm not a voting member here thank you it was hard because the house we appreciate that we we weigh the personal intent also that we'd like when somebody has asked for something that's very personal like I'd like to have my my mother live here it's you know we feel it we understand it we appreciate it for all hum but there's something it gets discounted because really what we're trying to do is just set the property up so that it can have a life of its own without being encumbered by something that's so unique that it makes it actually um more difficult in the future for that piece of property right it lower you know I know we all everyone tries to improve it yeah I think that would be an equable methology okay all right thank thank you very that was very thank you appreciate that no not yet one more [Music] [Music] Mr Walter Ericson good evening good evening you have you're here before us to give an update on Cricket Lane yes uh so I just wanted to give the board an update how we're doing things have been working out pretty well we've we've got uh we hope to be paav in the first 2third of the Road by the first week of December and we've got you know we've connected to the town water we putting in all our of drainage s's rough graded so it's coming out good we're working with the town's engineer Joseph Walker and we've been working with the water department had a couple of minor issues that we've resolved along the way but it's been going pretty good fire hydrant fire hydrants the right place or connection added some added some hydrants one the waterline move and uh elevation changes uh but everybody's been pretty cooperative and I think it's coming out pretty good you had one big incident with uh a truck driving over at somebody's lawn we did and you fixed it right away Sation we did yes I have good Crews that have been with me some of my Subs have been following me for 25 years I have a I think time guys do do you guys get all emails there Martha Chrissy I I get I get copied on everything no so I see a lot of discussion things I read them there's not any action or comment for me but I'm you know I read them in a file yeah I don't get them this is I start sending okay if you want to yeah yeah to the the the thought process is just Martha's keeping me in the loop in case somehow I just say wait a minute or um this was the means in which to get updates we would ask for for a semi- regular or whatever that might be and anytime you were doing something major or had a good good completion milestone it would be good to hear yeah so that's what we're doing and uh we did uh apply for our first four building permits which will be uh hopefully starting soon so so that's good there was the whole zoning map and numbering and and all that had to go through it's all been taken care of yes so we're getting through it just you know it's a new process for some things so uh it's it's coming out good and you know we actually have a pretty good repo with the the neighbors now we haven't had any issues at all so other than that one where the truck driver drove off the lawn but theyve been very good so she sent in a thank you email right after you fixed it yes that was she was very responsive so it's been it's been good we're having good it's a good experience we we'd like to make this go really good because it's like one of the first ones so yes it would it would be good just to have everything go as it was is planed so I did have a couple of things I want to talk to the board about as part of uh it's part of the construction of you know we have a community setic system and the community septic system we need a backup generator and uh controls for the pumps and uh we also will be drilling the well for a Sprinkle system an irrigation system for the whole complex so we don't use the town water and we'll need controls for that so what we'd like to do as an amenity is uh build a shed a small shed like that shown there so we can put you know the controls for the generator and then electri service for the pumps and everything in there and it can be serviced and used as a storage TR for the community so when you drive in and then you go up to the circle where is the well in relation to the SE so we we haven't drilled the well yet so we've got to we've got to figure that out but we have a big we have a a Big Field area that's going to be right over here and it's really good size uh so we imagine you know we've got a gazebo plan for here that was on our original plan and I'm sure the kids are going to use this for PL area but our septic systems and everything are all in this area here so we'd like to put the shed over here someplace uh and the well I don't know where we're going to put it yet be 100 it's going to be 100 ft away even though it's for irrigation I I think we may be putting it back here okay does the do there another shed for the well no no it'll just be a driven aesan well and we'll just run all the controls so being an architect and giving you my two cents freely here it might be nice if the shed was somehow positioned par well to the road so it seemed like uh a gate house or an entry Pavilion or oh that's a good idea something that you're driving past as opposed to sticking it out on the property and cocking it some way that it kind of doesn't really ground itself you have these two pull off parking spaces and if you were to put it here and it was positioned between the two it just it be nice if it was organized now while we doing snow clearing yeah it would be nice if you drove in and then you know this is the face that you're looking at and you put a Christmas wreath on on Christmas there's just something very nice about the whole setup I I think that's a good point or you put a little sign that says Cricket Lane on it or something you could put a wagon wheel on it but you could enhance the hole by by properly positioning your shed yeah and actually if we make it look like a gank house maybe we uh make it look a little better than this that might be a good idea I think that would go a huge way y to every time people enter they feel like they're they're they're entering a community which is very nice well thank you okay the other thing we'd like to do is uh put some kind of fire P you know in this area here uh you know so people can congregate you know and we just so with that if well there's going to be kids running around screaming anyway and there's kids running around over here screaming but if you're having a place that they can congregate we just think that maybe it should be a little bit more in so that you're not putting closer to the neighbors than than you than you could and I guess the way it shapes out is they're already going to be blocked by most of them are going to be blocked by houses right this this is much higher than this this go like that it is yeah I mean the scale is confusing on this too this is a qu scale so if we put something back here it still be quite a was away yeah I'm just making a comment I'm I'm not scaling it off I'm just thinking you know one two 3 4 5 six seven it looks like are you going to put in exactly this cuz this looks no we're just kind to put on something say give me one too I like thisy wants one too I to yeah I would like this myself okay so my my only thought is noise other than um I don't you already have a a field you already have a gazebo I I think by adding this the only thing that you could have is a gathering of people that would create more noise but I mean somebody could have just as many people in their back there if they really wanted to yeah we were actually thinking of pickle bom at one but boy there's so much noise Factor there I'm reading more and more about it hearing this ping ping ping all the time keeps coming up some people fall asleep and other people they're about ready to kill you especially it goes on all day long in your home all day long yeah so I don't you know if the the pump for irrigation is a necessity um I just gave you my free comments about what I think it would be you could make it nice and get more out of it than just a pump house I don't have an issue with that sounds know it's a great idea okay and then the fire pit patio setting um I guess I would I would so understand what you're asking I guess I just like to talk to Martha I just think back of Are We adding or changing something and is there a process or can we can we simply do it um in within within all the roles that were kind of inv okay no problem you submit a new updated type plan at a minimum to record it yeah um but I just want to make sure that we're aware or we're not getting into something bigger where all of a sudden we should have just had you come before us and said this is what we plan to do and we take a vat and everybody goes away happy and we're all good we probably won't be doing anything till Springtime anyway for for that you yeah if you do put in a fire pit I would think that you um like this structure with the chimney and and has some control ability and it has a bit of a flu to it is better than just putting in a round pit where somebody makes their own bonfire and and the wind can take it and kids can fall into it and there some sense of better control right with it yeah um especially with what we've just gone through recently with the drug and all the fires happened down 95 um something a little bit more in my opinion would be better than something that's less for for doing something like this so we need to figure out the process I don't I don't think the the pump out for necessity but um let me let me just talk to Martha let me just go back and read through my my notes and I think we'll get there good is that any other questions for me at all at this point you're on schedule I'm a little bit behind we hit a lot more Boulders than we thought you know U what are you dealing with the boulders we we crush them and then we make a 3-in minus product that we use in the driveways and filling in the garages and everything so so uh it comes out okay so just like the stumps we ground up all the stumps and we use them for erosion control and steep slopes that works out well don't are you going to be framing all winter yes the plan yeah so hopefully the market stays good we'll see it's hard for people to come out and see a baron site without any houses up you know so like when we do buildings you you can't get tenants in until the Steel's up like no matter how many renderings you show them until someone physically stand there yeah and see it then they're not ready to even entertain the thought so I think people would like to see it even if you have it frame it doesn't have sighting but if at least it's got the plywood on it and they can go stand inside of it then they can get a sense of SP right then they know it's coming anyway right um I already got a call to be put on the list for the affordable lising so I I just have the person name at my desk if more calls come in but the calls have already started people are interested good I think that would be good so in the springtime too once we get one of the one of the uh four permits that they pull to us for one of the affordable houses so we'll do one affordable for every three market rate homes and uh we'll probably start the lottery process once that house is almost complete uh because when the people apply for the lottery if we can't close relatively quickly it changes their finances sometimes and uh then they might not qualify and it's it makes it difficult so so when you get a couple framed and or when you get it about half when do Drive buys it's not like but i' at some point I'd like to see it with all of us and we can set up a proper meeting that we can all be together and discuss it but we should go walk it and just understand some plans to what's being built get a tour from you yeah and just see it all uh once I get a house up I'll be happy to do that I can meet you on a Saturday or Sunday out there facilitated for me y okay great all right thank you very much all right anything else on the uh agendas anything why was B officer denied or Council they so you looked at the plans here's Bob Lobster here's they wanted an easement right so this is a conforming commercial use this is a residential use you cannot extend the non-conforming use on conforming property if this happened to be a resident and for some reason they wanted an easement these guys wanted to grant them an easement then you're giving a resident to resident has nothing to do with the use and you can do that that that's my simple understanding that's good enough who caught that one that's pretty good Lisa Lisa caught it and and went back to Peter and said get so it got caught before even came for us and we had to S over I have a bu of comments but I just put them in the folder because it would for me it would be nice because I've been in that parking lot when people were coming in and people were coming out and then you're like watching people coming down the pike and you're like yeah Butters have said nothing's being resolved even with it not moving forward it's still going to be an issue with parking next year and the um understood but legality is legality and that's it is what it is right okay so for allar you got anything for us no no make a motion to close the meeting second all in favor bye all right good me