##VIDEO ID:VX5Q5vSHQZw## good to go yes all right well I will get us started uh today's December 5th for parks and rec um advisory commission I'd like to call to order is five o' and first item is to uh approve the agenda can I get a motion to approve the agenda I'll make a motion to approve the agenda I'll second it all right all in favor I I all right um or motion passes um and then number three the approval of the October 3rd minutes can I get a motion motion to approve the minutes October all right all in favor I hi hi motion is passed uh moving on to open Forum packed house tonight so I'm going to close open forum and then moving on to Department reports awesome thank you good evening everybody Paula thank you for joining us uh via Zoom here um I got a couple months worth of updates here since we didn't we skipped this part in October as well um so a couple things here maintenance wise um we did do some patching in the hockey rink this fall so I know that was a big priority um we were able to get that done we do have some plexiglass that we were going to replace as well um we are preparing to flood The Rinks here coming up um we've been working on the skating rink a little bit already um but just as uh a little reminder it takes us at least 5 days more like up to eight depending on what Mother Nature does to flood the hockey rink so does take us a good good week um to get that done and I'll be putting updates on Facebook and the website um so the community can stay up to speed on that but we're very close to getting that going um over the summer we had some damage in the men's bathroom to the partition we did get that replaced um we did our semiannual carpet cleaning at the community center and then um new to the operation this year is the toilet out at between the licks Park we do close that for the winter so it is locked Recreation wise um we have time for play going on at the community center it does take a little bit of a winter break here um and we'll start back up in January again and then we are running youth hockey um youth basketball and Adult Hockey this winter so all those program registrations are open um needing the registrations in uh by December 20th so I can get shirts and everything ordered and coaches figured out um over the holidays and then they get going in January and then with the hockey rink um we have been um receiving applications and doing interviews for the warming house attendant the ice maintenance positions and so we are sitting very well on that um we do have all of the warming house attendant positions filled and one ice maintenance worker so far um so that is pretty good progress compared to some years um where we're not completely scrambling at the end but hopefully we'll get them all onboarded and ready to rock here in the next uh week or two um for the opening of the hockey rink Parks wise um gake Trail we have um one land acquisition left um in October city council did approve the cost distribution between nisso and lak Shore for the first grant um so we have been reimbursed from Lake Shore for 60% of the cost um and so we are finalizing the first section we're tying up all those loose Financial ends here in this year um in November city council approved with Seth finishing out the plans for the second section up updating the bid documents and getting all of that ready to hopefully bid the um section on 77 here in January so we are still on track um for bidding that and constructing it in 2025 um and then lastly for the GOC Trail we were awarded a grant all four communities it was a combined Grant to do maps and kiosks and mile markers so this is one of the master plan um initiatives um kind of tying the project together so it's G to have be one cohesive system um so we are just met with the other communities today to work on some of that um getting who that Grant who is that Grant from uh greater Minnesota oh okay yep they had um some extra funding so they took on some smaller smaller grants um and we were lucky enough to to get one and what again what did that include um it's we're getting Maps made okay and then the purchase of kiosks so each Community is getting Maps kiosks um we all determined how many we needed and what type and then mile markers as well so the four communities are niswa Lakeshore Fair viiew Township and east lake lake correct yeah so pretty exciting um also really good news for Lake Shores they dig it um recommended for funds for their last section and so once all that grows through that would be um a final Trail so very exciting um with that and then um also for between the legs Park we're working on getting a map made over the winter for that as well so we can get some some directional signage out there and um get that marked so right now there's a temporary map on the website um that gives people a good framework um but we need a finalized map that we can get made and own on site there any other questions cool move on a new business new business yes um so in your packet you guys have some information um Paula's term is up at the end of January um so in November we did post for the upcoming vacancy um we have one application which I sent you guys in a follow-up email um he did apply previously and I contacted him and he resubmitted that application um Alysa and I did interview him last year so just want to kind of confirm with you guys talk with you guys about the process if you'd like um to accept this one application if you'd like us to reinw or repost um for the vacancy he looks like he'd be a good fit he's got experience with fundraising Maybe yeah looks like be good what you think Alysa I agree yeah I think it's kind of the Miss it' be a missing link right now so yes yeah y great so would you guys like to make a motion I'll make a motion to recommend to appoint to app Point yeah Bruce yeah I can second that Paul oh yes I'm in favor he looks like a good candidate great and I yeah I feel confident that you know you guys interviewed him and if you guys feel confident in them I mean I feel good about that um Motion in a second yep all in favor I I motion approved awesome all right um here's the next one new business Item B miswa City Park RFQ submittal so in your packet you received three different proposals um we sent the RFQ out in October um all three are sourcewell contracts which was kind of the goal of it they had to be State contract or sourcewell contract that have already satisfied like the state bid requirements um and so you have each company's proposal in your packet again it wasn't to design a playground for niswa but just looking for that company that we're going to kind of go through start stepping through the process with um and so happy to answer any questions and open it up to discussion ultimately we're hoping to if you guys want me to go back and ask any questions I certainly can um and if you guys come to consensus to make a recommendation um I would bring that to Council in December um I'm probably going to have the most knowledge with these three companies um because I worked for one uh and then I was obviously in direct com competition with the other two um that was a long time ago but I would say that if we are looking at doing an an inclusive playground um there's one company that I I really don't think is even in the same conversation as the other two and that would be Miracle um both from a quality standpoint um if you go around and look at their equipment their quality is not up to par with these other two companies and their inclusive products um are not on the same level as well um just as far as how they actually function um and how kids actually interact and use those pieces they try to mimic a lot of what these other two companies do but don't quite understand how kids interact with them they just are dup they're trying to duplicate them um so in my personal opinion and while in professional opinion I think Miracle is not somebody I would want to work with if especially if we were looking at the inclusive playground that I know we've talked about um which one is miracle there's Flagship they're Miracle or they're Weber Recreation design but they you have the playround company and then you have like the sales yeah the manufacturer is Miracle Weber is the distributor well that Paul that's a a this is Paula that's an interesting comment about Weber because as as I was look reading through it and I certainly um you know uh no you you have the expertise here so I think we're all looking to you to give us some Direction but Weber was the only one that had a lot of information in there about inclusive uh stuff so are you saying that they they they talk a good talk but they don't really deliver what they're saying in their proposal because I thought they I was surprised that the other companies didn't put more emphasis on inclusive playground because yeah Weber definitely added a lot but I mean for example you know landscape structures or Flagship they have a piece I can't remember what it's called but it's a a piece that has rollers um I mean they have a Roller Slide but there's a a a horizontal piece that's all rollers and then it has kind of arches and so somebody with disabilities there's both a sensory aspect to it they can um grab onto the Arches and pull themselves through or they can stand up and kind of run on those they can go underneath and feel the bottom of those rollers um so there's a lot of elements of play and interaction and it's big enough to have all types of size children all the way up to adults on it Miracle however takes that same concept but they totally take the rollers out and so they pretty much just take a slide and put it vertically and put arches on it and it's almost like a slap in the face as far as giving a child with disabilities I mean there's no way to interact with that piece you can sit on it you can't slide yourself because there's no I mean cosmetic it's more cosmetic I think they talk a bigger talk and then if you actually go on site and look at a 10-year-old Miracle playground you're going to notice a difference between that 10-year-old Miracle playground and one of these other two companies as far as how it holds up over time but again I've been out of the industry for 10 years now um but I at least from my past knowledge Miracle equipment I don't know anything about Weber Recreation but Miracle equipment was not even in the same ballpark as these other two companies and I talked to one of my colleagues that they work for the city of Woodberry and they are constantly trying to go through the warranty program for miracle and he actually was like if if it was me and you guys have like a clean slave doing whatever you want to do that was the one company he would not recommend to going through and also on the warranty side of thing the customer service was not the greatest yeah I mean both these other companies Flagship is obviously W both Flagship and St Croy are somewhat local in the cities landscape structures is manufactured in the cities in Delano St Croy in Wisconsin so still pretty close so I'd like that aspect of it too that they're say there sales reps um all three companies are local right there's the um Flagship they reside out of Walker St Cy Rec resides out of East Gull Lake and um Weber resides out of South Metro so they're all in very close proximity um and sales rep wise and then it is definitely a shipping time frame on where the manufacturers are in Minnesota and Wisconsin are very close s Croy has also done some local projects around here too yeah so that you've had like that Lutheran Church of the Cross so I'm I'm sure somebody's talked to the church to see it I have spoken to all the sales reps numerous times over years so so what's your opinion yeah that's what I I want to know your guys's because I have I have spoken to all of them um just kind of about our project in general and where we're at and they just so they know like we're fundraising and um this might be a multi hopefully it's not longer than you know but it's you know we don't have a lot of answers yet we have as many questions um is anybody and so I think that was kind of one of our my biggest um dialogues with all of the different companies um they're all very responsive and you know they try to work with in our budgets within our needs we have to be able to identify those for them um and you know they all have a you know a little special spot in their heart for NWA um so I do think that they each company does have an understanding of the area um they all have playgrounds within the area um I the one follow-up question I did ask to each of the companies was regarding installation costs so with this um the RFQ that we did we kind of looked at uh just the state contract pricing they've already satisfied the bid requirements that pricing kind of um locked in um but the variable could be installation and delivery and things like that and just met with each um company to see kind of how they go about it and how we need to budget for that and um they all have certified installers I would definitely recommend that we have the certified installers build it versus Community um there's certain things that the community could do um but the cost of installation based on complexity um so there's not really a good gauge as a percentage probably 25 to 35% of the cost um so I have spoken to all of them but really wanted to get you guys' take on how you guys view the companies their product um in conjunction with what our ultimate goal is and how we wrote up that RFQ can you remind me if there's are there any of the playground equipment that we're that you plan on keeping that that that you can integrate into another project that people are willing to work around um they would all be willing to work around it so at some point here quickly we need to determine where the playground is and what the shape is the container so that way they can begin to start that preliminary design um I'll say that's going to deter our budget our timeline we're going to I don't know if we have that answer yet if we're going to keep something relocate it somewhere else to a different Parks work around it all those things would be determined um but it's possible yes depending on how the project pay pans out Amber Amber how much specificity do you need for the DNR Recreation Grant what exactly are they looking for um they need for sure the equipment that is staying and going as well as the fall depth and material the fall height um and so we would likely be going with our our we're still shooting for that inclusive destination playground um until we have a reason to change course in my opinion yeah I think we all agree that that's what we want yeah there a big difference in price I mean is there or are they fairly comparable to um I will say the price will be kind of dependent on which kind of equipment we pick sure so obviously there's certain things that are you know more elaborate more expensive um they've all satisfied the bid requirements so that evens the plane field a little bit and there are no limitations between any of them from okay besides what you pointed it's a lot just preferential okay I would say if we are still leaning towards an inclusive destination playground landscape structures has been the leader in that industry for a long long time and they continue to be not to say that same or Burke doesn't have some good inclusive elements and I think they're probably getting better um but no doubt landscape structures is probably the highest in quality and definitely the leader in both Innovation um and inclusive play from a design standpoint so that would be that would be my push is for Flagship but I'm also a little bit biased but I I mean I've been far enough removed and I I I do feel like from uh I know Flagship their design capabilities um they've got a huge staff their service um I don't know do do you I don't know if we have any landscape structures I know the elementary has a couple of pieces from from landscape structure structures their new obstacle course I believe they worked with landscape structures on um that wasn't wasn't the only the only landscape structures is the uh musical elements in the middle um yes I'm I'm not positive I know St Croy wreck um the Oscar kristopherson park I think they had listed the new L piece at Lutheran Church of the Cross um they did bring one of their reps out um to talk about how they go about designing their inclusive pieces and they have um some some kids with special needs that they bring in as consultants and um so it is something that I know that they are working on and trying to um not just not just for people with special needs or a distinct need but just anything that would be awesome for kids right like you want High value pieces as Paul was talking about you want to be a like it's not going to be a huge Park so the things have if they can do multiple things that's a great bang for your buck and so um even though we say inclusive destination it doesn't mean that it's only for this this need or that need or you know but it's it is engaging to all kinds of people yeah um well and the biggest thing about inclus you know inclusive play is to not have it be just the playground for kids with special needs it's a play ground for all that includes you know kids with disabilities and and medical needs and so you don't have the short you know it's not the short bus playground you know to say it's a it's a playground that everybody can enjoy need a company that can that could meld both in their inclusive pieces and I like how you say pieces because it is pieces of the playground and that they can somebody that can do that together you know inclusive Parts in there as well as you know the ropes that kids can climb and you know so that it melds well together yeah I know we kind of touched on this but are there elements that you want to keepy or we will keep that are currently in the existing playground it depend there is more life left in the two to five year old playground so the gray and red one um that's only maybe halfway through its life okay um likely everything else would be replaced okay might be nice to to if we get rid of everything to take some of that equipment maybe over to where the to the camp Lincoln um yeah uh park by where the the you know the bathroom is in the parking area yeah yeah so potential to reuse it or things like that um relocate it um yeah just kind of depends on I mean based on the concept design it's likely moving the whole area yeah um so really until we know the full scope of the project sure but with our goal in mind um it would likely still have to be relocated okay even if it is within the same park but trying to figure out all the different elements we want and how many Spinners and versus climbers to the Rockers to the slides to making it all flow together Sherry was saying well it's I guess it's important that we recommend one tonight so you can proceed to take this before the city council yeah and again if we're not you know if we do have follow-up questions I can certainly ask any of the companies um additional questions because we definitely wna it's it's G to be a process a long process with multiple revisions um potentially and our goals May shift over time so we want to make sure that we're confident in the company we want to go forward with so does it is it just me or does it seem like that flag sh is a little bit contemporary more than the rest of them or is it just the pictures that I'm looking at I think it's more so the pictures but they do have I mean I think they they offer such a wide range I mean if a lot of yeah they offer a wide range you can see they have a lot of natural elements if you wanted more of a natural you know they've got rock figures and um you know different concrete type structures they've got more modern um they got a little bit of everything I mean they're more of a custom they're more of a custom company than they are a catalog company um and so they're known they're known to be work through projects like this than to respond to you know an RFP yeah so like all the any of the companies their cataloges are like like over an inch thick they're like 200 pages long and so you can pick just like I want this playground and you can purchase that playground or you can go through and determine platforms and slides and this and you know and customize it that way so I think we'd be looking at the customized not the I one letter i on page 72 well given our landscape here it would be nice to have some natural elements in it but I mean that's yet to be determined in terms of the design but anybody want to make a motion I mean I guess I don't know where the group stands I mean you guys know where I feel on this but I don't I lean One Way U I don't have a strong preference but I do I do lean heavily on on landscape structures and flag she creation given my experience and what I exposure to landscape structures so I guess that's I feel like I'm you know that's where I'm at um and I guess I would like if you're willing Amber do you have a an opinion one way or the other or no it's because I've started talking to all the sales reps and building relationships with the sales reps um and then I've tried to play on all the playgrounds I too I'm the size of a 12-year-old it's not that easy to get through that roller let me tell you um and so they all do have their unique elements um their unique components yeah um I don't think there's necessarily a bad choice um I think you're probably going to get you know the expected lifespan out of most of the equipment um so no I it's it's tough for me it's really tough so I don't have really a whole lot of experience on playgrounds but when I saw St Croy how that it was had had um the 100 year warranty on the equipment I didn't see the I might have missed the warranty on the other equipment they have 100e warranty yeah it there must be just un certain I think the post lasts the longest from my knowledge um post can last a very long time and then they also said they have unlimited free design so that you can you can keep on changing the the design is often as you want I know they so one of their examples is Alexandria and I think they're on like their 12th revision with one of their projects in Alexandria don't quote me I'm not 100% sure I'm pretty sure Flagship and Landscape structures would have the same I think it's from a design standpoint I think I think it's it seems comparable like they're going to work with you um through it we have to be clear in our Direction um the design part does not have a cost like the cost starts coming into play when you purchase and install Al I've probably had the most limited contact with Flagship Sal SHP I've had maybe three dialogues with them but every time it's been responsive um and then St Cy like I said he's in East go Lake and he he's come to our meetings um just he's interested in the area in general um and then was that again Amber which one oh okay so and then um Weber said I'll get it on the road today if you want me to up there so so they're sure they're all eager they're all very responsive they're all very eager like I said n was near and dear to all their hearts just like it is ours so yeah um well I think that since two of the four of you have had experience with landscape uh structures that I will throw my support behind them then I will make a motion that we um recommend U Flagship Recreation and Landscape structures um to be the playground company that we move forward with that got two different companies well Flagship Recreation re is the distributor um or the design company that represents landscape structures so they're the same okay oh all right I didn't understand that all right yeah landscape structures is the manufacturer and then Flagship Recreation is who we would they're the sales company that that rep yeah thank you for clarifying that yeah all in favor hi hi all right good work moving on to Old business um circling back on some topics from earlier in the year um Park rulle sign so we had a discussion oh May April May June somewhere in there um and at that time it was just a list of possible rules um so I went back and I have kind of just played with this over the months um it we talked about wanting Graphics to go with it um as well as maybe consolidating some of the language um so you guys have a park rule sign um as well as a trail rules so the trail rules is coming from um the the trail use policy that was approved um with the go Trail steering committee and so with the park rules I would be looking at city park nisell Lake Park in Between the Lakes Park and then Trail rules would be for the go Lake Trail so at this time um looking for feedback on the design um the Aesthetics the language any just open to feedback on both signs and questions I really like it I mean it's visually pleasing it's very like easy to read and understand I my only thing yeah as long as we feel like it's cohesive with all of our other signage in town I mean I think it I really like it I do too I like that you the verbage a little bit than what we had before yeah yeah that was the laundry list of everything I Googled you know knowing how people read these signs I'd like to I mean I like it too I think it's easy to read but i' like to see that we sort of prioritize some of the most important rules and put them within the first you know four to six things on this sign because people just they just gloss over this sure um and one of the things that you know up until September I lived right on the go Lake Trail and was able to observe a lot of the activity this year and I'm really concerned that the lack of um obeying the traffic signs I lived at a major c a major Crossroad and no hardly anybody stopped for the stop sign at the cross at the street and many people who didn't stop they I noticed they'd look to see if there was somebody coming out of the Cove or out of the tow houses across the street but a lot of them didn't and somebody's going to get hit if they people don't start obeying those those stop signs and the other thing was you know we said there was no motorized traffic on the the trail but some of these people riding their ebikes literally were going faster they were going 20 miles an hour on their ebikes and they didn't you know they didn't stop and so may maybe we could put some of these rules that are more important at maybe I can flip-flop noise ordinance and um speed yeah I don't know how we solved that problem but um yeah e bikes are is a gray area very gray area they do they do move fast but they are a bike right I know but they're moving faster than than some of the motorized vehicles that's yeah that's true right well that would be just my suggestion put the most important things at the top okay so moving speed up is there any other ones that you think might on either side might shimmy up or down so the snowmobiles and I get a I don't know what the verbage is but the things underneath the trails on the snowmobiles they used to have they used to they weren't snowmobiles some snowmobiles used to be allowed on the on the trails and other ones with they when they had the stud the studs weren't allowed is does that still apply today on Trails but it has to it has to what in our policy I believe it says no studs but it's not posted on the trail so I could put it on the trail rules poster here because doesn't that does that still eat up the the the tar the trails when they they have the studs on the snowm bills I'm I haven't I haven't snowm build in a long time so I don't know if they have studs on the snowm bills yet or not so isn't it prohibited on the Paul bunion Trail yeah yeah answer your question yes it does tear up the asphalt if there's not enough base there yeah so if there's enough snow they're not hitting it I just remember that when I was when I was riding that just you just you knew what trails at that time that you couldn't ride your stud and stone bills on you know so I don't know if that if that you want to add that to that or not on those girls I think it's in the policy so I can add it on here as well because of TRS fractures which means nothing to you but I think if there's I mean there's no motorized vehicles at all in our parks and so I don't know if you would need to include that being that they can't be there to begin with you're talking on the trail rules though not the park oh gotcha okay I know yeah they're same but different yes okay any other um thoughts recommendations if I make those changes would we be do you guys want me to bring it back to you do you want me to email it out and get going on production over the winter yeah but I think it looks nice um my goal with the trail rule sign would at least be going in that kiosk um and then if I ke gets some metal ones on a post I'll do that as well um so I'm going to have to leave my horse at home you are I had the vision of them on the Little Pony from the mall okay moving on to letter B the bench donation um so again we talked about about this over the summer spring summer a little bit um I did make some of those revisions that we talked about um to the form including um listing out a price so prices for review here um what's listed is $2,000 and then um going through I did include um a map of where I think some benches could go um so cter all at s um benches throughout the park again there's only just over a mile of trails so there so are you suggesting that benches could only be put in the camp Lincoln Park at this time yes so then why do we have other things other parks on the uh uh the application the donor the application for bench donation um because we don't have our plan for city park yet or downtown um I've not identified any locations along the gullic trail and then nisell Lake Park is full so I could remove all of them at this time and just leave it all like put it only as this location well I think people would be very disappointed if they really if they had this application and they really were set on having a bench in and the niswa you know city park and then they come to find out well they can't do that right now I mean maybe either you leave them on there and indicate that you know only available at this time with a time frame or take put a strike through yeah full full full because maybe in five years they won't be full exactly yep yep so I could certainly do that with the form um like I said there's a map of possible locations um and then there's a mockup of the bench this is most similar to the style we have at Nall Lake Park um it is a different company though I the ones at nisic Park have a sticker on them and these ones would be the engraved and then um through putting it in the shopping cart um it does this company gives you the options of arms or arm l so this would be the max amount currently um of 1,500 with arms um and then we would have the install cost do any of the current benches have arms because the example here doesn't show with arms um no it's it's an add-on oh is that 1500 with the engraved honor yes so do they buy the actual location or do they buy just a general bench and you pick the location I would would have them pick the location okay so I that's cool late fall I did go out there and take pictures um or early fall and it's Lush it's very Lush out there um so yeah that's I would have them select a location ni from the available yeah on this map I'm not real familiar with what's been built what's been cleared for trails and what not so what which of these numbers would be possible Now versus in the next few years every single site location would need to be prepped um so each location would need to be cleared whatever vegetation their material for a base brought in and then we could place the bench so they're all just they're all on the trail like all those trails are constructed oh they are um but the spot off the trail for the bench has not been cleared in yeah okay material placed yeah so right currently right now we do have all these trails that you have on here correct oh okay a nice Trails it's awesome nice MH so yeah it's not a very lengthy distance between any set of benches and I tried to put some by the hills um yes any thoughts on the there is a character limit if we did go with this company um so I did add that I know that was one of the questions um another question was on the warranty and I mean the benches are made to last for a long time but the warant is only like a year what's the character limitation can you say that again Paula what what is the character limitation 30 how many characters 30 30 yeah per B per per line per line per line on the bench so they would just select in memory of Which is less than 30 characters and then you name it um would have to be in 30 or less so so somebody's name would have to be 30 characters or less correct that that might be challenging or something yeah and this bench has two lines or two like slats on the back um so but it fits Parks and Recreation Parks no not n w parks and wall Parks and Rec not Recreation so um like I said this is a different um company than what's at niss Lake Park but it's the same style is pretty reasonable for a memorial donation so it'd be $2,000 you choose the character the the names for the bench um you select the location from what's available you have it for 12 years um is what is on here and then after 12 years they can opt to renew their location and get a new bench or they can take the bench with them and then that spot would be reopened for another Memorial bench well they could take the bench with them and relocate it somewhere else they could like take it home yeah after 12 years um do you think I'm missing any rules in the policy or are they relatively clear enough yeah looks good and I think with something like this we lean on your guidance I was not here for the first round so I am it looks borrowing other people's materials okay I think it looks great so we will generally run with that and I I do have a um several inquiries to get back to um regarding opportunities so I will continue to work through that over the winter with um Jo Between the Lakes Park at this time time the only thing I can think people might ask for is different inscriptions but I think you're fine I was trying to think if there was anything else but that's I was trying to think of what else people might want to put for an inscription yeah um but I think donated by covers the other other yeah if they really wanted something they could make a request okay I would think I think I just have um all language used on the bench is subject to City staff approval I think that makes sense you go you covered your bases yeah if they wanted more than 30 car characters on a line could they opt to buy more characters um I don't think so based on the company's font size and style and how they would engrave it we can maybe try and put extra on the top so like the the Top Line could be you know if you pick in loving memory of Tim Joe Steve and then the next line is everybody else possibly so it be 30 characters per line so 60 in total okay any other final comments thoughts on this one all right um item C under old business is uh just an update on City Park um fundraising we are at 36,000 still um just some data for you um after the October 3rd meeting there was 57 views on YouTube um after that we have only had one donation come through the account um I did do a post on November 12th in as everyone was kind of posting their give to the max kind of campaigns I threw it out there with that that post did get um 788 views um so certainly open to additional ideas on what to incorporate R from my end of it um in terms of doing some of the planning with Seth did get the survey work done and so they're working on the base map and the park boundary um told them that we're going to need kind of the layout and best you know kind of size for the playground here um coming up by the end of the month early January um and so that that is still being worked on from the planning aspect of it for the grant timeline happy to answer any other questions or open to dialogue and thoughts has anyone well yeah obviously you're not going to be writing the Grant in March because you aren't going to have enough money unless the city decides to put some uh money into this project and since I'm leaving the park board in one more meeting I'm going to say some kind of bold things that I'm been thinking um I got my pen ready Paula well it's nothing you haven't heard before um I'm I'm disappointed that this hasn't taken off um but like many of the other cities like Cross Lake and Brainard and iron all of those places I mean I'm talking about the pickle ball uh all of those places had champions in their communities that were willing to step up to the plate and really get out there and and um you know really go after fundraising and community support and that's how they rais the money we haven't done that I realize that as a a government organization you have been Limited in that capacity to do that but we don't have that champion that's come forward even though there's still all these people out there that would want to see the fac you know these facilities and I had some friends who were at the meeting that we had in September and I asked them after the meeting you know what they thought and their General opinion was that the information provided except for Terry they thought her information was good didn't encourage them to make a donation that we talked a lot about having to take care of our current infrastructure first and there wasn't a real y yeah we really want to do this um and then therefore they said they didn't feel motivated to really donate because again as I've said many times before people will donate when you have a specific time frame they know exactly what they're donating for and when it's going to be built but when it's very nebulous like it is right now they aren't going to donate it's just a matter of fact of the way fundraising happens so um I you know I hope that I see these pickle ball courts in the next few years but it's not looking very encouraging at this point um but they it's still a big need it's the one thing that the adults in this community and the taxpayers want and would really serve um our summer populations well as as well so I just leave you all with the thought that you know do everything you can maybe maybe I can do more as a non Park member um to get things going but I'm not saying I'm going to step up and be that champion in the community because I just can't do that right now but um certainly I'll I'll certainly work behind the scenes or even be willing to go and talk to the business Community you know when the time is right but um you know this is something I along with the playground I really want to see happen um Paula looking forward to next year um we do have a new mayor coming on do you have a certain or do you have any reaction items requests thoughts um I mean you've been very um vocal this whole time and sharing really good perspective and fundraising and your experience with that um so I'm just wondering if you have any ideas for Action items that we can bring forward with a new Council well just that you again you're going to have to need to set a commitment the city's going to have to make a commitment to this project so far they well I should I won't say they haven't put any money they haven't put any money towards this fundraising but there's been many other ways that the city has made commitments to the project by just supporting the master plan and some of the now the city park planning and all that so I I say commitment it's more like timeline and then well yeah we need a timeline you know once people know you're within I mean if they if you had said okay we're going to submit this grant in March next of 2025 we'll get the money um even if you got the money this next summer um you aren't going to be able to build it until the ne following year because you won't get the money until later in the summer I I don't know unless are really ready to go but they want to know exactly when when are you going to do this you know and then you will see the money come forward but right now it's not you know they don't want money sitting in a fund that they have no idea how long it's going to last so that would be that would be one thing and the other thing I do think that the city has to meet a help with the match in some capacity uh if you get close I'd like to see the city throw in the rest of the money for the match probably not we're not not at a point right now where that's going to happen but you know taxpayers when they're sitting here with the 14% Levy for next year and Baxter just lowered their Levy to down around 4% now that doesn't include the county part of that but um they want something for their taxpayer money you know they want to see the the their tax dollars at work they don't think that this this all this Improvement should be sold on The Souls of those who donate to this project so I'm I'm just speaking candidly about this I will promise to stay involved as it goes along um and I'm happy to meet with the new mayor and also you know hopefully this new um Committee Member I mean sounds like he has some good ideas and good examples and you know maybe we can put together a better fundraising plan but I'm just kind of laying out the realities of it at the moment thanks tier yeah tier Point Paula I mean it really takes a champion outside of this room because like city of Cross Lake it really wasn't the city of Cross Lake that said we need all these pickle ball courts it's a huge community of pickle Ballers that came to the city and said here's the money to put in pickle ball for us you know they the ones who went out and and fundraised and we just that's that's the missing piece we have right now is a champion outside of these doors that's saying let's go get the money you know we want this playground we want this these pickle ball courts we want this m you know we want this park done let's go out and get the money because this what has the money you know it's out there between the business Community between absolutely private donor it's out there it's just there's nobody going to there's nobody going to get it no that's absolutely right Paul um we have the C we have the capacity we have some the capacity of some really big donors in our community but we also have individual donors in this community that can do that um and the business community in ironon I know they had uh they have they had a city committee that was not part of the city structure but they would they they recruited a lot of money from their business Community um there for their and they have six courts in ironon that are highly used yeah the land donated too yeah that's true well we're not paying for the land we already have the land I think there's a bit of a misconception that this is a fundraising project not to any thing that you've done because I think it's awesome but I think a lot of people don't understand that we it's 100% going to have to be fundraised I think when I speak to people they think the city is going to foot the bill um you know so so it that's the opinion that I hear a lot from the community and people that I speak to do you have any ideas on how we can educate or speak to it better different I've been trying to figure that out as well miss the city to foot the bill yeah I know yeah exactly I mean that's that's the common like question I get or you know when is this going to be built when we have the money for it what do you mean we you have the money for it is kind of what I hear from the dialogue of what I hear when I'm speaking about it and your I don't know the flyover video is beautiful is it a donate now at the end of the flyover video so people when they re see that I don't know get it I don't know like besides that there isn't anything else that I think can be that you haven't done is my point okay so here's the question if they can bond for a a building we don't have and a city water tower for a system that we don't have can they bond for the Park equipment the bond is going for the land um I think I am not a bonding expert um so I could definitely look into into that I've raised the questions before I know there's gambling um monies that could be an option um obviously local sales tax that moratorium is coming off maybe this year um still don't know what or how that might change so that's something that we're still very much paying attention to as a potential um it's definitely something to bring forward again and try to see if there is a bonding um option or in what ways the city's going to have a hard time with another bond in the short term anyways not to say it isn't not to say it isn't the right way to go but it's this last Bond was a hit yeah yes there's um there's definitely options I know other communities have franchise fees that go to parks and R there's there's definitely a lot of options I'm just not sure we haven't thus far been inclined to go down one of those options I think we've been most intrigued by local sales tax yeah that's really unfortunate that that is on a moratorium right now because I feel like that would have been a great Avenue to expl there was a presentation we did um there was a study done like a mobile data study the from the U ofm extension and November's council meeting had a recap on that um Revenue was maybe 600,000 with about 35% of it coming from local versus whatever 65 from um visitors so that was a very interesting presentation good to have that information should the council be inclined to go forward if it does come back um so yeah there are definitely other options um that we can keep bringing back to the table um I wonder do you know you know is it something that we can well have at the ready and be ready to push forward through Council so that way when the moratorium does come off we can hit the I mean I know it's going to take some time and effort after the fact but just to keep it on council's radar so when the time comes the moratorium can only be on for a year yeah so coming up with this next legis legislative session um I think there may have already been some draft bills um that have been put out there um and so we'll see kind of what they do we what those bills and the criteria might look like um a lot of it it's hard to predict um on that but if it does get resolved in legislation that would give us hopefully a couple few months half a year to kind of work through it depending on what all the criteria is yeah so I'm very much monitoring B well good luck with that project just need the state to do their job um yes so obviously this is always an ongoing dialogue I appreciate you guys' thoughts your investment um sharing what you hear from the community I don't receive a lot of this feedback so it is helpful to hear how people receive the information um so I appreciate you guys being eyes and ears out there and willing to engage and discuss and educate so um said it before it takes a village and I appreciate you guys working on it so any other questions final discussions comments I have a quick question going back to science and I don't know if this is it but while back we spoke about the snowmobile trail sign and kind of directing people whether they go under has that been we figured that out I have not um I was kind of holding a little bit of the downtown area with the downtown master plan but that's okay on paish right now y um so I might just ramp up our own efforts to get that going okay so I have a question Amber that's really not related to anything we've discussed but there's been um you know a lot in the news a lot about this downtown master plan and how they're now going to retrench and go back and and uh get some more input but is is does the city park figure into that plan in any way I have not read it um city park not really um in the ways that it would tie are like way finding and like walkability like how we kind of go about that and um improving basically the accessibility accessibility to City Park which was identified in master plan as well as kind of the downtown goals um what it does affect is pocket park pocket park um we are doing some temporary fixes between like in the grassy area um behind big axe the boulder wall there is we need to do some work the drainage is blowing out the boulder walls so um council is aware of that I am routinely visiting and documenting and we've done some things to help mitigate that um through the winter um just a comment going back to the the grant you got for the kiosk and stuff I'd really like to see you consider putting a a major kiosk in the pocket park because it is a you know it is kind of the entry to the goal Lake Trail and yes just people are confused about where to go and how do they connect to the B Paul bunion trail from there when we wrote the Grant I did leave the downtown kiosk off of the grant um So the plan is to put for Nall one kiosk over by Grand View um in the corner of Lower roic Road in um 77 there and then um we do need a more robust kiosk downtown um I was trying to leave space uh for the downtown master plan and if the downtown is going to have a different design cohesive element to it um so we will see but yes will so this grant will not include a kiosk downtown correct you know Another Place Another Place they need some Direction but this could really be this really should fall on Grand View to do this um you know I I'm a golfer I golf at the at at Grand View and they have a trail that cuts across uh 77 not at the intersection of 77 and lower Roy Lake roow but it's uh right before that and it cuts into the um the the the exit from the golf course and people get very confused I've seen them get very confused there about where do they go next when they come out of that trail they come out right there on 77 but um you know so really Grand View should be putting some um some signage there to direct their their their customers yeah their guests yeah so um where we're looking at putting the kiosk is kind of between the Aspen Drive Entrance and um at the end of lower Ro Lake Road so hopefully it helps with that corner um transition a little bit better it should be fairly visible depending on the direction you're coming from and then um with that I also requested that we make insert for downtown and so they can track from the goic trail over to the Paul bunion good so that'll be a part of the design as well well the trail was used a lot this summer it's a great addition any other comments otherwise my last one our next meeting is January 2nd do we think do we know our schedules are we going to be here or do we need to change the day I don't think I will be here but I can zoom if you I will be here that'll make work I'll be here well good to leave it for the second I'll be here okay cool that's all I had can we get a motion oh I can make the motion to I will motion for adjournment second all in favor thank you Merry Christmas Paula well thank you to all of you I'll see you in January all right take care