##VIDEO ID:8EntcdfY_70## e good evening Mr sters can you hear us okay sorry you're on mute there we go can you hear me okay that I can thanks for checking thank you dude you forgot to shave how are you doing good man how you doing you doing good you're kind of cutting out my signal might be cutting out I'm not sure which yeah I'm on Wi-Fi so I think I'm okay but that's not see think got off green Shar and ready to go yep welcome everyone um I'm gonna start the meeting um I'm not sure if Joe our chairman will be here Joe Hall um we do have two of our committee members uh cam Dorian and galen's strover are here um by Zoom um so I I guess I'll preside the meeting for tonight un unless Joe shows up but um we don't have a quorum so some of the items that are on the agenda we're going to bypass and we'll we'll table those until our January meeting uh the first item would have been the um approving the minutes from the October meeting um we'll table that and um let's see what else I think that's all that we needed uh the committee to do so there is a an open Forum so if there's anybody here who has uh a question or a comment unrelated to the road Bond if you want to come up to the podium and ask that seeing no one we'll move on to the regular meeting so the first thing I will go go through is I prepared a memo um kind of given everybody an introduction into what the project is about um and I'll go through that and at the end of it I'll introduce um bill with width um our city engineer and he's got a presentation with the maps that you see and we'll go through that once that's done we'll give everybody a chance to come up and look at the maps and ask any questions um you can ask them of either Bill myself and we'll try to answer them as best we can um and then we'll adj we'll reconvene to adjourn the meeting once that's done so um the first thing I would do is just uh let everyone know and you probably are aware the roads that are included in the bond uh we're looking at um repaving sumac Trail East Roy Lake Road Edna Lake Road Edna Lane ho in the day drive cander Court lendi Drive Old Government Trail Parkway Drive Hulk Road Roy Lane Upper Roy Lake Road and W excuse me Wooddale Road what the what the bond is hoping to do is we'll Mill off old pavement um ad base were necessary if there's been problems with um with the uh with the base of the road or in some cases we'll be adding base to increase the um load limit of the road um you'll notice that in the springtime a lot of our roads are hosted as 5 ton right now uh we've been going up to a 7even ton road with most of the roads we've been resurfacing and I think some of these will be getting that same treatment uh following the base correction they will get uh a new Surface put down um some other things that we would be doing with that um we'll be updating any of the signs that are um wore out um faded possibly damaged uh if there's any street name signs out there that are still the old blue color um they're being updated to the uh the same ones that the county uses the green and white they're a little bit bigger little easier to read um and then lastly the other thing we would be doing and this will be probably be done by City's staff um at the end of the meeting or at the end of the project excuse me we'll be installing Swing Away uh mailbox posts for anybody who doesn't have them um the reason we do that is it helps with plowing and prevents some of the damage to the mailboxes from plow damage so if you have any questions about that you can see me after after the meeting or give me a call and uh we'll go through that more um I wanted to give an update on the timing of the meeting um so one of the things that we have um that makes the project a little bit more complex is there's some RightWay issues that need to be cleared up and so to do that will take a little more time than what we had allowed for so right now it's looking like what we've been calling a 25 project we'll still be working on the engineering and the RightWay acquisition for uh for it during 25 but the actual Paving likely won't take place until the summer of 26 some of the roads won't need that much attention but there are a couple of them where there's quite a bit of RightWay issues and so we're trying to keep these group together to get a a better cost uh or get a better um bid for um the cost of Paving the roads um see what else do I need to say here um the there's another road bond that follows this one that would have been scheduled for construction in 26 that one will also likely be pushed back to 27 for similar reasons um I just wanted to make a note of what on the plans you're going to look at tonight um we consider these to be 30% plans meaning that they're 30% complete so they're going to give you an idea of what's being considered if there's anything um a little bit unusual where maybe some of the RightWay issues are but nothing is set in stone these aren't for construction um but they are here to allow you to ask questions and give your input where you might see problems that maybe we weren't aware of um and so we'll take that feedback back from you and we'll be making uh further updates of these uh once there's a plan that we would consider the final set there'll likely be another meeting like this where you'll get a chance to give your final input before the council approves to go ahead with construction um some things of interest I I would like you to um be aware of um a bike trail has been proposed for on upper Roy Lake Road um that's not set in stone but it is something we're considering and there's there's a variety of reasons we're looking at that um we would like to get your feedback on whether you believe that's a good idea or not or if there's a type of bike path you would prefer right now the what we're considering would be just simply a wi wider shoulder on both sides and it' be one-way traffic in each Direction um and it's only on upper Roy that we're considering that at this time um but if you if somebody here has a roadway you'd like to see a bike path on it's not being considered please let us know either way is fine nothing is set yet but we would like to get your input on that um other things like I've kind of alluded to already um there's there are issues with RightWay acquisition um most of the city streets in nissah don't have um dedicated right away especially the older ones um they're there by what's called a prescriptive right meaning they've been there for more than 15 years and so they maintain a RightWay by that um when we go to look at the RightWay acquisition the engineers will show where that rightaway acquisition is needed and the City attorney will work on the best way to secure that with the help of the surveyor from wood Seth um anyone where we believe we would need to uh acquire right away we'll be contacted directly uh you won't hear about it in a meeting like this you'll you'll be contacted either by phone or mail with the details uh where we would like to engage you about right of way um some other things to be aware of as you're looking at this um I think many of you are aware that there's asphalt gutters on a lot of the roads that are out there for instance upper Roy and Edna Lake Road have asphalt gutters on the steep hills um we're looking to add more permanent structures most of those uh asphalt gutters were added as afterthoughts um they were temporary in nature uh temporary in a lot of cases when it comes to roads is a can be 20 years old um but I think we're looking to do something more permanent to prevent V erosion and handle uh erosion issues and uh heavy heavy um rainfall events better than what what they have so if you see anything on here that you have a question about how we're handling that drainage uh please let us know um one last thing to be aware of there are some minor Road realignments um in some cases it's to eliminate some of the RightWay issues that I've talked about already uh it may also be to improve safety or um just simply improves visibility or in a lot of cases you might have roads that come together at an angle other than 90 degrees and in some cases we're trying to bring them together at a 90 degrees which is a safety issue so um one last thing I want to give you an idea of where what our future updates will be after this so some of these rightaway issues that I'm talking about will be worked through with the city council in a workshop either in January or February um that's subject to their approval um when and the schedules um so I don't have a date for you yet on that uh as I had mentioned earlier before we go to final acceptance by the council they'll it might be at the time where they're going to provide their final acceptance there'll be a second public information like meeting like this where you can see the changes that are made after your comments from tonight um see U there may be other meetings or workshops as as things come up with this if they are uh please check the city's website they'll be uh posted on there well in advance and uh we'll give you an idea of anything that we didn't uh get a chance to talk about tonight should be noted noted there lastly I I put um contact information on the last page of the uh memo I've handed out I'm inviting you to stop by City Hall give me a call or send me an email if you have specific questions or you'd like more detail um I can try my best to answer that or get it to the right person to answer that um with that um Joe do you have anything you wouldd like to say before I turn this over to WID no don't think so you want to go back andove what's that oh yes um maybe one thing Joe um we would like to just a housekeeping thing approve the minutes from the October meeting before we move into approve the minutes from last month from October we have Cam and gayen are here to they here on zo second I'll second thank you Galen thanks Galen you bet okay minutes are accepted with that um Bill do you wanna want me jump in with your presentation on the sure project just sit sit here doesn't matter uh whichever you prefer if you want to be at the podium or there whichever works better for you I guess hello everyone uh my name is Bill Westerberg and with wood Seth and I'm the primary engineer for the city of niswa um like Tom mentioned um so we're doing the 2025 Street improvements so I put this map up here kind of shows roughly where they are and listed all the streets um we've estimated the total lineal footage of roadways that we're going to be doing a prays to or reconstruction is 29,300 feet so it's quite a bit of rout uh like Tom mentioned some of the big some of the issues that we looked at when we were doing this was uh the big one seems to be drainage for all the roadways um the other thing is that popped its head is uh right away oh got it turn it on um so those are our biggest issues I mean other than there's always some little things that occur when we're doing the design we see like uh I know signs um utilities stuff like that that always will show up also um like you talked about drainage um one of the big things with drainage that we look at is that we always when they're designing the roadway or coming up with alignment profile we want to get the water off of the roadway as quickly as possible or prevent it from actually making it through the roadway um ponding kind of reduces the lifespan of the pavement especially in binus the water and the binus pavement they don't really go together very well um it can deteriorate the pavement and causes actually when the water the water will actually get into the cracks and then cause structural damage which will weaken the pavement and then the what that's what when you see potholes and alligator cracking one of the things that we've noticed a lot when viewing the um streets in this was is that uh kind of like a bathtub effect the water seems to drain towards the roadway along the roadway and then eventually it will drain off but this situation with we show here here where the red line is the existing roadway is not the best situation so that's some of the stuff we're trying to correct um like Tom mentioned we're going to try and control the runoff toward and along the pace surface of the roadway the best we can and the ways to do that are with ditches um we're not going to put in the ditches are going to be minimal depth you know a foot you know like if we get to a place where we need a culvert then the depth will increase in order to get the pipe under the road to uh or under a driveway in order to uh maintain roughly a foot of cover over the top of the pipe and then we're going to add concrete curb and gutter um Tom mentioned the bituminous gutters that were put in like I said before binus is not really meant to carry water or transmitted very well it it deteriorates the fines and that surface off of there and over time it just breaks down whereas concrete um you can set the grade A Lot flatter and it will control the runoff a lot better and it'll drain it away much easier um a lot of times when you introduce concrete curb and gutter you also have to add storm sewer in order to get the water off of the road out of the gutter and into a ditch Pond or some place um the other thing too is just uh in a lot of areas the road is up a little bit higher and the grade kind of slopes away so we would maintain that the water would still drain the way it currently is draining right now and then once we get all those things corrected then we coming up with the the plan or the Reconstruction of the roadways a lot of the roadways what we're planning to do is like Tom mentioned is raise the profile higher so that the edge of the road is going to be a little bit higher than the edge of the than the surrounding property um and still match the driveways match the the grade stuff like that in a lot of situations um like that picture showed there's plenty of room to raise the road a little bit um for the most part most of the roadways are all they're going to have a a different you know they may have a ditch they may have curb and gutter or they may slope away and that's kind of what this picture shows um like the curb and gutter usually is put in to transmit the water up and down the roadway longitudinally and also to reduce the amount of uh this thing have a pointer um so the the idea of the curban gutter is that it uh minimizes the grading that has to occur behind it if there's a hill coming down so in this picture here if we had to build a ditch where that curb and gutter is we'd be out considerably further than what we're showing right now based on look at the other side of the roadway where a ditch is put in um the city kind of wanted a little bit of a boulevard there so that the the roadway or the the grade doesn't come down to the back of curb for snow storage and a place to put any signs that we need um yeah that table kind of shows the proposed roadway width um for each Street like I said that for the most part we're not really um increasing them too much except for upper Roy Lake Road which is the next picture so the typical section for upper Roy Lake Road with the bike path is two 12T Lanes uh 5 foot bike path on both sides and then in some cases there' be there's always going to be a shoulder but in some cases it might be curb and gutter in order to match the grade on either side or to provide drainage um 5 foot is like a for a bike path oneway is like the recommended um width it could be decreased to four but the recommended width is five feet um we talked about right away and I guess unless people have specific questions I printed out some stuff from the county so what we've done for the RightWay is um on streets where width has regarding um right away or easements or plats that we've done over the years we've Incorporated that into the the drawings or into our base mapping um in some areas we don't have that information um that's what we're talking about the RightWay as being possibly a problem or an issue um so we we we've tried to create a a a map that kind of shows the existing right away and a lot of cases It's a combination of the County's information and wood cess survey information so that just kind of the like I said if you look at a lot of the roadways um East Roy Lake Road for example there's um the property owners on both side own right up to a property line which basically goes goes all the way up to Harbor Drive so there's not really a dedicated RightWay for the roadway it's more of a prescriptive right type thing um Edna Lake Road Parkway Lane Edna Lake Road has uh right away from I don't know the South part going up to Fawn Lake Road that's Sim very similar to um East go or yeah to East what is it East Roy Lake Road I'm getting confused with all these Roy and edmas um so then then from Edna lake or from Fawn Lake Road all the way out to 371 there's there's dedicated right away but it varies throughout there um some places it's wider than others and that's some of the issues that we're going to have to resolve um upper Roy Lake Road that one varies in right away with similar to East Roy Lake Road where it um there is none and then in other places there's like 30 feet 33 feet and in some places there might be 66 but it jogs in and out all over um right away Roy Lane similar on that one where at the south end it's basically the RightWay of the property goes up to the roughly the center of the road and north of a certain point it there is a dedicated right away but it's not 66 feet so basically that's it for the presentation I guess I can go through the roadways one by one we'll just start with the first one on the list piig one oh that's the uh so on East Roy Lake Road what we again seems like the big issues are um so the width of the roadway is uh 24 feet from edge to edge um if there's a curbing gutter it adds another foot and a half to the face the curb so what this drawing shows is um a ditch along the east side um trying to prevent that water from making it towards the roadway if possible and that ditch kind of extends along the road and then flip to the next slide that's a different so actually next slide go back to East Roy Lake Road and then there's more than one in there somewh to here so you can just see where the ditch roughly ends to to in order to make the grade work um and the profile so go click okay so then this this shows um like Tom mentioned before um in some cases we are trying to improve the geometry or the how the roadways lined so you can see right now the gray underneath is what East Roy Lake Road looks like right now when it connects with Harbor Drive and it connects with what is that called birchdale I think Birch Ridge Birch Ridge and uh so what we tried to do here is kind of put in a sweeping curve it seemed like um what we noticed was that most of the traffic and the people live to the West versus the east and then to the east is a dead end roadway so the idea here was to kind of make it more of a free flowing roadway and um connecting birchdale or Birch Ridge into East Roy Lake Road there's another option which I don't know if quick question there are you going to accommodate still for all the mailboxes and the pullover for all that stuff at that intersection yeah we were trying to figure out the best place to locate it because it's right exactly where the curve is I'm thought is to move it to the South a little bit before the curve yeah cuz that's always kind of a bottleneck right there at that intersection yeah so if we move it South before the curve then everybody would get it before they either have to turn to the right or go straight right or if you're adjusting the road can you make that area wider so it's actually like a pull off like a little Park Lane yeah sure oops a lot of times there can be two or three vehicles parked there okay CU I believe there's roughly what 30 mailboxes there they show up on aerial photography yeah there's a lot so they're for both sides of the road then because there's not even that many people to the east yeah it just might be nice for those people there to just be able to pull over and let traffic go by or whatever sure um so this one very similar concept as the last one just makes it into a T intersection East Roy Lake Road comes up to Harbor and Birch Ridge Road that which kind of intersect um this one would probably end up being more of a three-way stop I guess but it's a similar concept kind of improves the geometry of the intersection um there is right away in this area right in here and we tried to fit the roadway within that right away there's pieces of it that are kind of outside of it a little bit just because of the trying to make the roadway straight or straighter um yeah so those are the two options that we have I mean the other option is to just kind of leave it the way it is but one of these seems to we I prefer the one with the curve in it myself but um switch to is one or the other easier to plow snow off of well I think the continuous one would make it faster for snow plowing um and I from my observation I guess there's seems to be more yearr round residence going on a Harbor Drive than down berridge but they're I think that's the minor thing here I think what we're doing is we're we're lining these up better for safety and visibility right well this is uh Edna Lake Road this is the one to the north um so the idea here is so where this is starting off at is probably the most interesting part of the roadway which is the culdesac I guess you'd call it at the far end um so what we're proposing to do is put in maybe modify this Colac a little bit so that it's a little bit easier to turn turn around um larger vehicles are probably going to have to use a driveway or something like that to make the turn unless we really expand the grading and the um the work to the South uh there's actually a a hill between the the roadway and that driveway that kind of goes off to the Southwest um so the idea is we're going to because the there's buildings and those driveways in there that black line kind of indicates a curb and gutter so the curb and gutter would help Define the roadway prevent or collect the drainage like we talked about before and then convey it to a point where we can actually discharge it or treat it or both um and then usually at the at the driveways we typically construct a um driveway apron and then blend the pavement from the the existing pavement into the apron um then on the South Side most of the water drains away so the road will be up a little bit and then water will drain to the South off of the [Music] roadway yeah that red circle there that there no I was just putting it in there to give an idea I I mean ideally it would be nice if it was bigger than that that one is shown right there is 60 ft I have a feeling the way we're going to do this is probably just match what's in there right now it's just going to be very it'll be a little bit tight to turn around in there and it doesn't meet the city guidelines or standards yeah we have a road standard for call to saxs now the road standard that we use is mostly for completely brand new construction right but where we can we're trying to match that with existing roadways um you know for larger Vehicles like the G garbage truck school buses it's nice if we can have a decent sized culd toac in there um in this particular case there's not really a lot of room to make a change to accommodate that so also too if you put curb and gutter on there that's going to even make it more difficult for those vehicles to turn around in a tighter spot because they're going to run up against that curb right right there there's not a whole lot of room from the road to the north because there's the driveways kind of go up and there's buildings right there so there's not a whole lot of space in situations like this there's always a compromise you know it's kind of like Joe says there you know if you got the curb there it's hard for people to cheat if we don't put the curb there then there's drainage issues um trying to make enough room for the culdesac isn't possible so you do the best you can to make some of these things de so basically what this is showing is just to make it clear so the black line represents curb the Blue Line represents a ditch or Swale um so what we did is we looked at the roadway profile that you see there and we're probably going to adjust that up a little bit higher where we can and then um we looked at the crosssections for the roadway and determined that the black line is roughly where the curb gutter could go to and the blue line is kind of a ditches and stuff um what we're always trying to do is minimize um disruption and um maintaining the drainage and then thinking about okay if we put a ditch where are we going to outlet that too if we put in curban gutter that has to drain off someplace too so that's some of the thought process process I guess um so that's what we did up and down the roadway so the blue lines they're probably going to end up being connected together but where there's a gap it's probably from a driveway um the cross-hatched area in that one spot on that previous slide that's uh Wetland delineation so that's been delineated by witth it's I think what we'll end up doing is right now we're showing the 4 to1 slope from the standards we're probably going to decrease that to 3 to one and we could probably stay out of the Wetland again just kind of showing and then as we get out towards um 371 it seems like the thing to do is to add connect onto the curban gutter that's there now and extend that up to the north so that we can um again try and collect that water before it gets or so it's we can control it on the road in the gutter and prevent it from running along the edge of the road and because the the slopes kind of go up along the edge it helps with the grading too that's just the same picture as before but so that's the idea with Ed a Lake Road this is Edna Lane and this is coming off of upper Roy Lake Road to the north so the idea on this one is again it's just like a lot of the roadways on the be the east side of that road there's an existing um binus Valley I guess you'd say and the grade kind of does go up from the roadway up a hill so another one of those inces where um replacing that Valley with curb and gutter basically on the east side and then figuring out how to drain that water collect it and discharge it basically down near that Colac um that's pretty that's what our proposed plan is and then on the on the West Side the water will just kind of drain off and Away um there's a couple of areas where we would probably add a ditch or something like that to keep the water draining along the roadway um so that it can be discharged appropriately there is a culdesac at the end of this road that has a that dirt in the middle um I don't know if we want to do we keep that or I mean if people are driving around and it's not a problem but right now it's not bother for maintenance or anything I I had no plans of removing it I guess okay okay okay I just you know usually it's like in an island so it's kind of a raised thing and and I was actually we drove over and I'm like I think we're driving on top of the so um yeah so we our plan is to maintain that um and our survey crew was out there we surveyed all these roads and he may have talked to you um and he related to to me about some of the drainage issues coming around there and I think yep and I think we can I believe we can resolve that or at least figure out a good solution the next one is oh ho in the day drive um the idea with hole in the day drive is that uh well let's talk about the RightWay a little bit um so the RightWay on this one is mot mot owns mot in the city of niswa own to the west side of H in the day drive the nisat does own a portion of that but it's not 100% clear as to what they own and what where menot starts and niswa owns um because on their mot's um Corridor study they show that as all being theirs but I don't know if that's totally true um mindat has proposal for Hing they drive to extend around or basically like a frontage road further south um so we're probably going to be in contact with them to talk about you know how that connection occurs right there where the curve goes in so the idea with um got to find my notes Here po of day drive is that uh on the on the east side basically the the water just kind of drains off the road down the slope towards the mot um ditch along 371 and we're we're not really going to change that concept so on the on the the west side we're going to be adding um herbing Gutter and ditches to collect the water and convey it along the roadway and then possibly um using storm sewer con directed towards the uh um trunk Highway 371 ditch the mot's usual plan is that they don't really like an increase in discharge but we're in a way we're not really doing that if we are then we can try and pwn some of it or store it before we discharge it into their ditch so for about from the I know from the south to the about the first I don't know thousand feet we're going to put curb and gutter in there there's a low Point um for about 200 feet where we where the water kind of goes to now or drains to now so that would be where we're going to continue to um kind of pwn the water there and then again the curb starts up again and then runs another 800 feet or more to the north where the again the curbed end the water kind of the road is up a little bit higher and the water sheds off on both sides and then as you get towards hulks Road the roadway width will increase from 22 or 24 feet to 32 feet as it goes and connects into um 371 and now again a rural section of the road is up pretty high and it'll just slope off on both sides cander cart um this one we have RightWay information on and but we're the plan is we we're going to keep the roadway um where it is now just uh can't remember if we're widening this one or not but basically keep the roadway where it is and uh maybe adjust the profile a little bit to get the drainage to work better so that it's not sitting right along the edge of the road and then add some ditches along like the well add some ditches along the the roadway in order to convey it to the low Point um we might have to add some driveway carts underneath the road keep the cola sack the way it is that water tends to drain to the Southwest I guess um yeah I mean of all the roads this the the this one again we're in the RightWay the Colac is a little bit smaller than the um City standard but it does it would stick out a little bit out of the um out of the RightWay here uh Old Government Trail uh this one is a little bit different than some of the other ones the the property to the be the East is uh kind of like a common area basically owned by the people on the west side and so what we're going to do is the roadway drainage seems to be from west to east so we're going to tip the roadway so that it continues to drain across the road and then into a s along the east side of the road and then have that discharge into there's a low area um over by PES Road into that area and it just maintain that I you call it like a hammerhead at the end yeah just pave that out I mean we tried to fit that in on some of the other roads too but it's hard um so this is PES Road this one has RightWay on it but it the road isn't really centered in the RightWay that's there so we might have to acquire right away in order to to build the roadway and do some of the grading um so that's another one of the um RightWay issues that we have to talk about um idea with that this roadway is is that we're going to end up putting in again curban gutter a lot of the roadway slopes to the um North or to the or no yeah to the South there's an area where the pokes road kind of carves through the top of a hill um where that's where we're going to put in curb and gutter that's the basically the definition of that uh picture I showed earlier with the the water draining straight down to the edge of the road and draining along the edge of the road um so pokes Road will have kban gutter um for a portion up near the top of the hill and then there might be some ditches along there but um it's not really that bad and then it connects in with Po in Day Road we we're looking at you know that intersection a little bit and see if there's something that needs to be done there to modify it a little bit but nothing nothing major just because right now it's kind of a a sea of pavement and doesn't really align with old Day Road very well as far as traffic going from north to south or south to North uh sumac Trail so this one it's like we have right away for this one uh this is an existing Gravel Road we're going to move the road to the center of the RightWay and then uh construct there's not going to be any curb and gutter on this one but we'll construct ditches in order to convey the water and then uh for the most a lot of the water is going to kind of empty out right in the middle there just to the right of those uh red names and then the rest of it will end up going down and discharging into the Coney ditch yeah as far as then so again we're trying to we'll end up raising the road raising the profile regrading it so that we get the water drain away um keep the ditch profile and yeah trying to keep the water off the road oh this is upper Roy Lake Road so this is the okay this is the south end or no not the south end the West End so there's a kind of a hill at the that red line dict or it kind of shows where the curb and gutter would go so the idea is to kind of uh maybe Define that radius a little bit better and and this will allow us to uh match that um the grading or the hill on in that corner and then there would be a ditch along the south side of um the roadway that would extend to the east there's a kind of a low area about you know 500 feet to the east that it would Outlet into um there actually a wetland complex up in that area too and then on the so for the most part by the Wetland complex the water sheds off of the roadway down the hill on both sides um up yeah right in there where the two red lines are curb and gutter so we had end up putting in um that water it would collect again just like before usually when there's curbing gutter that means that the the grade on either side of it is high and that seem to be the best solution short of putting in a ditch and then we'd have to cut back the hill in order to make it work um again more ditches again some curb and gutter on the as you keep moving cell so that's the whole the whole concept is you're going to have curb and gutter in ditches in order to um convey the runoff this is out at 371 it's a very like I said before the right way in here is very um varies I guess would be a good word um sure yes What's happen chaos so uh when it gets to pass County that would be lak Shores um right away if there's going to be a bike path that continues um that way Lakeshore would design it and build it so what yeah so one thing to keep in mind with the bike path is it's a very long range plan and this is just a piece of what ultimately would like uh some of the folks in town would like to have built the idea is that um the road the trail would come along uh upper Roy Lake Road continue to hit TW Highway 29 and it would follow 29 back and it would make a loop back to the Paul bunion um right now one of the reasons we're looking at upper Roy Lake Road for the bike path is we need a crossover for all the folks that live on uh that's on the uh Edna Lake roadside and the upper Roy Lake Road side and we want to put that in the safest place possible so when you look at for instance Edna Lake Road it's on a curve it's close to 29 there's a lot of things going on there so the safer spot for a Crossing we feel is at up a Roy so by starting putting the starting uh of that bike path on upper Roy Lake Road which is what we're suggesting when mot comes through with their next project whenever that is they would then likely either um help us build the crossing or build it for us at that time and so that it has a lot of reasons to build it now um it and it also makes just upper Roy Lake Road safer for bicycle traffic there's quite a few Hills and curves and stuff in there um folks I think do use it that way and when I call it a bike path it's not just bikes it's for Walkers snowmobiles in the winter probably um golf carts you know seems it be a ler the C I think you're probably right I I we haven't really um at least in this committee we haven't looked at that so the the trails is more handled with the parks and trails Department um and so the only reason we're looking at it here is because we're reconstructing the road and so you know if you're familiar with the news part of the trail that was built on Lower Roy Lake Road we didn't reconstruct the road at this time bike path was added in this case we're doing it all as one piece it uh provides some construction efficiency um if if we should so choose to add that path the um Parks Department and their committee have looked at uh the city of nisah from north to south and they've uh given us what they feel are The Logical places they'd like to see bike paths added um so this is one spot um some other ones eventually they're going to probably add a bike path on Church Street and possibly on popper there's a few others and uh unfortunately Amber Peterson our Parks director was planning to be at this meeting tonight and she could have answered this question a little better for you than what I'm doing but um really the best way to think of this Trail on uh upper Roy is it's um you know it probably will take 20 years or more to get the loop built a lot of this is um you know that that's that's one thing with roads is the the timelines we deal with are very long so one thing I didn't mention at the beginning of this um one of the reasons we're looking at the drainage and we're looking at the condition of the base as we're trying to make all the roads as we reconstruct them fit a 30-year repavement cycle so what what we're looking at is we're trying to get all the roads so that every 30 years or approximately every 30 years the city is able to come in and repave them so we're making investments in some of things that you're seeing such as the curb and gutter and whatnot to help them last longer if you looked at some places on for instance on uh Edna Lake Road you'll see that there's spots where the pavement is only this thick and so it's busting up and there's been other places like that through tomble we're going to consistently have three-inch pavement thickness when this is all said and done and so we can't obviously we can't afford to do everything all at once so we're picking off chunks of of these roads about every seven years and so this bond is the way we're deciding which roads primarily go on here are the oldest roads are getting done first so oh something I forgot to mention is on East Roy Lake Road because of the trucks and all that that seem to drive on that roadway um we've increased the pavement section slightly to accommodate what we kind of estimated to be the truck traffic um so we went add another half in of a bit and three more inches of agria Base just a count for that um Wooddale Road Wooddale road is um again the right away on this one is very similar to the other ones where um the road is owned up to the center of the roadway pretty much the whole way um again it's that P descriptive rights thing that allows the roadway and the utilities to be in here um there's sanitary sewer on the center of the road and yeah so the idea here is similar to all the other streets is uh try to get the roadway to uh um be at the right elevation to maintain the drainage and to uh convey the water in some Direction so you can flip to the next one sure is um well no we're going to end up uh Milling off the pavement on all on all these roadways um the existing pavement would be removed um probably regrade it to U the subgrade elevation or the bottom of the class five then add class five and then you know the payment section so there is going to be some grading initially no this this project ends about 12200 feet from Laurel Street so it doesn't even get to the gravel portion it stops right there yeah unfortunately with this somewhere back in time before any of us that work for the city currently they never built a CU theck or any kind of a turnaround and they didn't go all the way down so oh Lindy Drive the idea with this one is um we're going to maintain the the call it a loop I guess around the trees in the middle of the um Loop um and then the the roadway width is I think believe it's 21 feet around there so we're going to maintain that and so it basically becomes the road um a loop road I guess not really a cue saac because of the trees um again we're going to try and we're going to add we're not we're going to minimize the uh I think we can minimize the grading and the tree removal in that Loop area inside the loop um so we're going to try we're going to match the grades to the on the south side of the roadway add ditches um around on the I guess it' be east of sumac Trail on the other side the what the drainage tends to be the roads up high enough where the water will go either to the North or to the South depending on what side of the road you're on um here what we're going to do is in order to prevent we're going to create like a asymmetrical culdesac where it would go to the north more instead of in the middle of the roadway that way then we can connect it into the uh the driveways are better and then if we have to acquire right away we're acquiring it from the property to the north which no no reason it just seem like a the property in pardon oh like where that Loop is yeah the east side yeah that's where that that KAC is or that the E we go to the next one right there right there so that's the East that's east of sumac yeah to turn around I don't it's only what we're showing was 60 foot diameter so it's again it's not yeah right now if any if you're familiar with it in the spring that thing turns into a mud pit down there so we're hoping to fix that we've added gravel over the years but I think this will be a better fix um as you know going off the edge of that cue saac you see there there's a pretty steep grade so that I think would be the idea yeah then the the ditches basically are going to discharge to the east IA go underneath that driveway right there with called it it probably be better now when we're done it the water should just be in the ditch um so the next one uh Roy Lane so this one comes off of upper Roy Lake Road which basically going to maintain the way it is right now um it seems like the drainage and the roadway doesn't really need a whole lot of grading as far as like ditches and stuff minimal and then until you get up to the north um where the there's some possible issues with uh kind of where we need curban gutter right in this area right here where it's a little bit steeper right there in order to get the water to drain across that guy's driveway to the north but for the most part if anything is going to occur on the north side of the road or no that'd be the west side of the road um it would be put in some ditches and swells in order to convey the water one thing we did notice when we were out there is a lot of people Park their equipment Boat Lifts um trailers on that side over there so yeah that putting curb and Gunner in there might create some problems for them unless we put in some type of a surmountable or something like that but right here where we're showing it it's a steeper Hill nobody parks right there again there's Wetland that great piece right there is a wetland and again I think we're going to stay out of that oh the RightWay on Roy Lane is very similar to all the other ones where it's there's a portion of it where it's up to the center of the right away or center of the roadway roughly and then in other areas where it's there's a designated right away in there I don't know of any road other than maybe sumac Trail might be the only Road where RightWay is not really an issue oh yeah we haven't got to that yet I whatever one we have we do yeah that's it C late wait 26 or 27 what you saw here tonight would likely be paved in 26 and the reason for that is all the right of way issues that we were just going through all of those have to be um worked out legally and so the city council has to decide how many of the RightWay issues they want to correct then um so we're going to be having a workshop somewhere in January or February with the city attorney and the surveyor from WTH to determine where we need to pick up right of wave more detailed and give them a cost estimate so that they can decide how the best way for us to um clean up the rightaway issues that we have you know we want to have a consistent width throughout typical in this in uh with a city street is 66 feet um it's probably not your decision I just talked to the mayor May two months ago will be well that was the intention up to about a week ago and then the City attorney made it clear to us that he could not get all of the rightaway issues cleared up in time for construction in 25 so with that um we've had to readjust and push the construction part phase of this project back to allow for that to happen yeah so as I alluded to earlier in the meeting I'm not sure if you were here at the beginning um once we get some of your feedback on any of the changes that we're proposing if there's things that need to change we're going to be getting um at least one more set of plans um before we would uh look to the council to approve a project um once we have that set of plans or if there's a an updated set of plans where there's significant changes we will schedule another information meeting like this before the council approves anything and you'll get your chance to see what's changing voice your opinion again and hopefully by then we we're pretty close um the hardest part with the right of way is you start dealing with a lot of individuals well most most folks probably understand why we want to do what we want to do and we can horse trade back and forth and make the RightWay issues go away there's always a few that are not the people but the situation is more difficult and so it takes some negotiation back and forth to get a clear agreement made and that's why the attorney wanted us to push this back um if I could make make this happen in 25 I would um but this is kind of the nature of road projects uh in any large Municipal project there's a lot of people who have a lot to say about what gets done and when it gets done and so we do our best to keep them on keep it on schedule um we've been internally as staff working on this 25 Road Bond since we did the last Road Project back in 2018 so does take a lot of time there's a lot of approvals that have to happen for instance just the surveying work that width has done had to be approved by the city council before it could happen so sometimes you don't know what you don't what you don't know until they do some of that preliminary work and so wrinkles start to come out and we work through it and we try to be as uh upfront and honest with you as we can and that includes why I've brought this up as soon as I knew that this project was going to get delayed a year um I'd say barring some unfortunate unforeseen thing the roads that are listed here should have new pavement by the summer of 26 no so we've we group these roads together in a large enough project so that there's interest with a larger contractors that do this work you know you're all probably familiar with Anderson Brothers um we get a better price if we're able to group them together so we're going to try to keep these together uh for U unless there's some CH changes of opinion among the council or something but right now I don't see any emergencies among these as far as being paved I know if you live on the gravel roads you want it paved yesterday I I you know know when we built the culdesac on Su um lend D you know I've several folks that live down there been in contact with me over the years about that and we've tried to improve it as best we could until we knew it was going to get paved I'm just glad that we're going to get that done um only if it impacts the roadway itself if there's two driveways that are shared currently um that becomes a civil matter between you and your neighbor um when the project comes through if whoever the winning contractors as who gets the bid you and your neighbor could negotiate with them directly to perform whatever needs to happen with your driveways to make it separate um that wouldn't be the city won't be won't be paying for that yeah we even we noted on here that the driveway to the east is into the property on the west it's deep further to the east yeah anybody else have any general questions before we open up for uh to have you walk around look at the maps that uh pertain to you all right I would invite everybody to have a look if you want um stay if you want or you can leave if you need to um and if you have any further questions just uh grab bill or myself uh or councilman Hall then we'll uh do what we can to answer it for you thank you maybe one thing um just to kind of make it easier for us to end the meeting so you want to call for um um uh an adment I make motion to adjourn I second all those in favor I all that ditches way off the road um oh the yeah right here yeah yeah yeah well I don't doesn't show it here but that was on there yeah so the idea is that if it's a foot at 4 to one