##VIDEO ID:-QocRLG60z0## [Music] welcome to the North Middle sex Regional School District school committee meeting on December 3rd at 7 p.m. this is being live streamed by peil Community media which access Channel 1 94 and 192 I am informing the committee and the audience members that this is being recorded and the next scheduled meeting of the North Middle sex Regional school committee is scheduled for Thursday January 16th 2024 at 6 p.m. we are cancelling our December 12th meeting in present we have June mcneel here Bill Berg here Jill twig here Lisa Bloom here Tom Casey here Randy Rous Rush Patrick MC Phillips here will Hackler and myself Lisa Martin for administration we have Brad Morgan superintendent Nancy Haynes business manager G [Music] Reese Su assistant superintendent and Robin Ivy are administrative assistant all right will somebody make a motion on the consent agenda as presented so moved second that was seconded by June June all those in favor hi hi hi hi anybody opposed any extensions all right moving on public comment all right public comment according to our policy BH each person will have 3 minutes to to speak with a maximum of 15 minutes we have four community members wanting to speak tonight our first one is Cindy King is Cindy available she is not present we will move on to Craig Hansen all right good evening um and thank you for allowing me to speak this evening uh my name is Craig Hansen and I am from peil I'm here to communicate U both disappointment and hope well I appreciate the committee's willingness to host an open Forum a couple weeks ago I'm disappointed by the fact the committee was not sitting up on the stage backing their admin team I'm disappointed direct questions were not being answered transparently I'm disappointed by short-term seemingly political decisions being considered rather than long-term strategic ones I'm disappointed by back room conversations driving agendas rather than open collaboration to solve this large scale problem and I'm disappointed in members of the public yelling and misdirecting their anger none of you deserve to be the recipients of that but here's where I have hope in September 2023 Ashby Elementary was recognized by Desi as a top performing School in Massachusetts attributed to high achievement and strong growth in areas such as mcast performance low chronic absenteeism and High graduation rates as our students do perhaps this committee can learn something from ashb elementary it is a story of persever and my hope is that this committee will take a hard look at the structure of this district and ask the tough questions dig deep and formulate a long-term plan we don't need seven buildings and our students need to come first why is this committee not creating and implementing a long-term facilities plan where is the public facing advocacy for what we all know our students need and deserve closing any functioning School building will not solve anything and will only serve to create more problems you can only cut money by closing a building one time once it's gone it's gone on where will you cut next time what are the benefits to the students by closing a functioning school this committee needs to be advocating for our students all of them we are NM all of us we're not here to single out a minority group and take resources away we're here to build everyone up and make this District stronger mcog which is the North Middle sex Council of governments recently conducted a survey in Peril and they asked what the town should do with additional resources or or excess funds that they may have hypothetical of course um and what they came back with was um uh increase in education spending being the number two answer about 22% of the respondents only 22% rank that as a low priority when ranking Services there was the strongest support for fire ambulance and police as expected and Educational Services all of which were ranked as first or second priority out of 16 total Services by more than 70% of respondents this demonstrates that there is public support for our educational system this past June education week published the harm of school closures can last a lifetime based on new newly conducted research to quote students who attend a school that closes during their K through 12 career have lower test scores along with worse attendance and behavior in the short term in the longterm they're less likely than their peers to complete college and have a job and their earnings tend to be lower I'll reiterate something I said at the last meeting school is not just about the time spent sitting at a desk in a classroom it's the relationships the bus ride the teachers our youngest students needing a local place to call home during the day to build relation relationships with those in their neighborhood you are up there because we all have faith in you to make the tough decisions in that process we expect all data to be looked at and presented to the public transparently I hope you're looking at all options and advocating strongly to the state for assistance I know the decision's not easy I appreciate all the hard work that every single one of you are doing thank you thank you Craig next we'll have Kathy Bolis so even though I'm an appointed member of the school Finance subcommittee representing Ashby um there have been no finance committee meetings and I've not been allowed to participate EX except for um this public comment um what I've done is I've analyzed several documents um from the school containing information related to Schools staff and Services I would suggest that no school Committee Member should form an opinion or vote on an issue that is not based on their own investigation and Analysis of firsthand credible data further if the information is is not available I ask that you refuse to vote on an issue until it is received and you have a chance to review it these are some areas that I've looked at and I'm happy to discuss them with any of you individually um at another time the capacity and usage of each building um results in many questions and the data um shared with the public is even more suspect based on information that I've uncovered this is great concern secondly the current budget shows inconsistencies that are not that do not accurately reflect What expenses are in excess and can be viewed as areas to reduce for FY 26 third all intake of funds and accounts with positive balances should be included with any type of financial information that is released to the public if a complete and transparent Financial picture is being painted by each School Committee Member uh when it's being presented it's only fair that it include uh money that's in the till so to speak as well as um expenses number four the costs of each building are a bit misleading as they do not reflect credits that sometimes impact the bottom line of a facility so again I think it's the responsibility of each of you not because someone told you something but to actually obtain the data look at it analyze it and come up with your own opinions on what makes sense what you feel it's appropriate to support or what you don't feel is appropriate to support lastly I just want to rec EST that going forward um that meetings be hybrid in zoom and the reason I'm saying that as I look back on the history of the last 12 months there were 19 full school committee meetings 84% of those were either Zoom or hybrid only three of the meetings were in person only and of those three um two of them had indepth Financial discussions that does not lend itself to transparency the fact that peil is broadcasting is a nice to-do but if each Town select board can actually do hybrid um meetings I don't know why the school committee can't as well and I think it's a way that people can stay involved um watch things real time um or have the option to come here and see things in person so I would ask going forward that you can sit of that option and do hybrid or Zoom thank you thank you Kathy Sandra Lord Sandra Lord from Townsend and um wow it's a tough to follow these two um um I I just wanted to find out about the status um have are you any closer to making a decision how close are we about the uh balancing the budget and which schools you're opting to look at to close um I don't I'm supposed to I guess I'm supposed to talk to the chair talking to my questions the school committee can't answer you back okay oh Sor um there will be discussion tonight about the budget oh okay um that's my concern and I also have a concern I saw something online it was a some kind of document I was looking for it just now I couldn't find it uh generated for the town and I'm not sure what entity generated this multi-page document but it showed this 40R district and it starts before the town hall and it goes way into I think West Townson and uh spaling Memorial is right in that District and according to 40R it rehabs historical buildings and I cannot help but think according to the cost cost alternative study where it's it shows oh I'll go back the bullet point was something like a decision on Ashby Elementary is pipal for the futures of sanook and Spalding and that was right in the cost alternative study that I was looking right on the district website so I'm thinking if the town's looking at this 40R spalling is right there so um sping was totally renovated in '94 my son was the first class to go straight through in the new newly renovated building it's the one that has the least amount of fixing to do I think it has something like $625,000 maybe to make it more handicapped accessible or something like that but otherwise it's in good shape and it's a really really nice building having said that I would hate to see and I go along with the gentleman that was speaking I think it is detrimental to close schools we can only close it once and we save but what happens after that we already closed Peter Fitzpatrick back in the day we closed Squan Cook Elementary we stuffed all the kids in Spalding you know up to grade four and oh by the way Spalding has a very steady number of students students according to that cost alternative study uh ntis and V Brook are pretty full I mean I think even Hawthorne Brook they found found alternative uses uh with special needs in each classroom so pretty much every classroom has a function and to just cut that would be very detrimental to the students um I do know Ashby Elementary is um the most costly I was looking at that but again to close a Town's only school is detrimental I don't know what the answer is I just wish the state would step up and and do the appropriate funding for our district they failed us and that's where we we have to be pushing it it sounds like it might be too late to go that route for the school budget I I just don't know what the answer is but for any of these schools to close be really really unfortunate for our children I do not have anybody in the district right now but um I have a grandchild that may be uh that's going to be come along that may be in the district in a few years and I would really hate to see drastic changes um well I I guess I don't have anything else to say but thank you very much for listening thank you Sandra moving on to new business out of state field trip request Miss Smith once again um the New York Service Learning group is going on their field trip to New York and they're going in April um leaving on their Friday before vacation and going for 5 days their itinerary I believe you already you have it could subject to change because the places that they go usually don't get it Philly fully committed until January but the um it's pretty much the agenda that they'll looking to do it's a similar to last year and then just looking for approval to be able to go thank you I know my kids are going on this trip and they enjoy it and it's well-managed and and it's a great time they continue to go there's 32 students are going and there's going to be four chaperon two of them are staff members other two are parents that will be attending anyone from the committee have any questions may I get a motion so moved second who Bill and Randy yes all right all of those in favor anyone opposed any abstentions all right thank you I wish them all luck this year it has been uh wonderful through the years I've heard they're very excited all right I'll speak The Advocate or advocate for a fair education funding letter is a letter that was in the packet that we will be sending out to the community and it's a letter that states our Representatives email addresses phone numbers and websites that you can advocate for the state and federal funding and I think listed on there are Margaret Scarsdale Senator John Cronin Senator Ed Kennedy and Congress representative Lori Tran and then Governor um hey is on there as well does anybody from the committee have any questions does somebody want to make a motion to approve so moved what are we calling it yeah and and Patrick second thank you all right all of those in favor any opposed any extensions all right all right now there's no subcommittee reports we're on to finance all right will your turn superintendent go to start yes you can start so as we shared last week at the budget Forum the North Middle SE Regional School District currently to present a budget that is level services for FY 26 that's just the budget that is basically sliding everything we have this year into next year would be an increase of 4.43% or $3 million over fy2 which factors in increases in contracts health insurance transportation and Rising special education costs it's important to note that the current numbers are based on assumptions the governor does not release her preliminary budget until the end of January in addition we will continue to monitor special education costs as those have increased significantly since the start of the school year it was shared this morning that the Senate Ways and Means chair proposed his outlook for FY 26 stating it's not looking good to a couple of reasons those being Revenue Trends continue to Plateau or drop seeing 2 to 3% in growth while spending Trends are in increasing at 4 to 6% also the federal funding oper and Esser funds have been spent by most school districts North Middle sex being one of them at our last school committee meeting meeting the administrative team was charged with coming up with some options that would result in reductions to avoid a need for a propositional 2 and a half override the options included cutting approximately $500,000 in curriculum in technology that would require the district to play catchup in subsequent years as these reductions are not permanent there would be a one-year potential solution building closures and staff reductions it's important to note that if that if building closures are not considered approximately $2.5 million would need to be cut from Staffing which will have a devastating impact on our ability to maintain sensible class sizes to be honest with everyone when we talk about cutting 2.5 million in staff I'm not comfortable cutting even $500,000 in staff we're not in a position to be making staff reductions that are that significant our class sizes are already quite large and will increase significantly if we do go ahead and reduce U by $2.5 million with a current educator shortage this could lead to our staff leaving for districts that receive more state funding and have more openings in total we have six options to share with you this evening all of which have at least one building closing I will go through each option but I would also direct community members back to our extensive FAQ document that was shared with the community just prior to Thanksgiving this is a document that we will continue to update as additional questions come in we had two questions come in on Monday we've updated the document we will continue to do that the fa you and all of our budget documents can be found on our budget website which is nmrsd budget.org it is separate from the school district's website in closing I need to point out that while some of these reductions are long-term building closures being one of them if the building closes that is a long-term reduction we will see increases in our budget drivers every year which will make savings from reductions we make this year potentially obsolete in years to come because we will always have the increases in contracts health insurance special education and transportation every single year those will increase and we will see an increase to our budget but a building closure if it stays closed would be something that would be longterm while reductions rarely have a positive impact we will need the state to step in soon to address the formula that is out of date and does not properly serve the students and staff of Regional School Districts so at this point I'll go through each of the options okay so option number one has Squan cook with prek in grades K to one um Ashby and Townson prek would remain districtwide Ashby would close Spalding Memorial would be grades 2 to four Ashby and Townson VAR Brook would be K to4 peppol Hawthorne Brook would be grades 5 through 8 Ashby and Townson theatis would be 5 through 8 peppol and north middle sex Regional High School will be 9 to 12 as it is now the closing of Ashby Elementary alone is $381,000 in technology and maintenance costs the pros in looking at this is we do have to look at the amount of property that we have to maintain and our per pupil expenditures are based on parti the number of buildings that we have it's the least reconfiguration of students Ashby still has a lengthy Capital list the demolition of the vacated Wing May set in motion up to-date Ada accessibility compliance which would be costly and allows for Equitable class sizing in K to4 districtwide the cons the closure of the only building in Ashby it's the only Elementary School it's the only School in Ashby and it has lower Financial savings when compared to other options option two similar with sanook um grades prek districtwide K to1 Ashby Townson this model or this option does close both Ashby Elementary and Spalding Memorial varnam Brook remains K4 for peil hawo and Brook goes K to five Ashby Townson nissitissit is grade five pepper but also grades 6 and seven districtwide and the high school becomes grades 8 to 12 the closing of Ashby and Spalding combined would be just under $916,000 the pros would be saving in facilities and Technology costs creating in Ashby Townson campus K to 5 between sanook and to and Brook moving the eighth grade to the high school may help retain students creating a districtwide 67 model and a more appropriate building for science and engineering classes allows for Equitable class sizes potential for more students to remain at the high school versus transferring to the uh to technical schools private schools potential reductions in travel for multilingual and special education service providers eighth graders would have access to certain high school extracurriculars and Athletics because they would be housed under the same principle cons would be again closure of the only uh School building in Ashby the length of the bus ride from Ashby to peil if the high school population grows reconfiguration would likely be needed and extracurriculars for grade 8 drama art and Athletics option three Squan cook is grades K to four Townson Ashby grades K to four Ashby in West Townsen Spalding Memorial would close varnum Brook would be K to4 peppol Hawthorne Brook would be 5 to8 Ashby Townsen as it is now theatis would be grades 5 to 8 peil as it is now and the high school would have the prek here districtwide and grades 9 to 12 the savings of closing Spalding Memorial alone would be 53585 the pros would be all elementary and middle schools have the same gr configuration it balances class sizes and early childhood education options for high school students cons would be that Spalding has nine more classrooms than ashp Elementary leaving less room for growth may need to add additional busing and prek at the high school would cause for the current prek playground to be moved and also also for bathroom conditions to be addressed if the prek was here option four has Squan cook prek K districtwide again K to one Ashby toon closes both Ashby and Spalding Varn and Brook is K to5 peppol Haw and Brook is 2 to five Ashby Townson ntis at middle is 6 to8 districtwide the high school is 9 to2 districtwide again a savings of just under $916,000 the savings and costs and Facilities as I just mentioned would be would be high it would create an Ashby Townson campus K 5 creating a districtwide 6 to8 model with the more appropriate building for Science and Engineering a full theater band and music rooms which currently does not exist at Hawthorne Brook shared Middle School extracurricular in drama art and Athletics again both middle schools right now are separate potential reductions in travel time for multilingual and special education service providers and more consistent programming for academics and extracurriculars for students entering the high school cons closing the only School building in Ashby leaving little room for growth if enrollment increases the length of the bus ride from Ashby to Pepper option five sanook prek districtwide grades K to1 Townson Ashby grades K to 5 Ashby only Spalding Memorial would close barn and Brook K to 5 peil hawth and Brook 2 to5 Townson ntis 6 to8 districtwide the high school 9 to2 districtwide a savings of $535,500 8 model as I mentioned in one of the other models for more appropriate science engineering having the full theater band and music rooms shared Middle School extracurricular drama arts and Athletics room for growth if enrollment increases more consistent programming for academics and extracurriculars for students entering the high school cons would be the length of the bus ride from Ashby to peil again Spalding has nine more classrooms than Ashby does leaving less room for growth adding grade five to Varn and Brook would be a challenge and option six would be sanook K to4 Townsen Ashby K to 6 Ashby Spalding would close barn and Brook K to4 peppol hawthor Brook 5 to6 Town 78 Ashby Townson Nissa tiit 5 to 8 peil and the high school will be prek districtwide 9 to 12 as well Savings of $535,000 185 Pros would be the savings and facilities and Technology costs there'd be room for growth students are educated in their town until at least sixth grade early childhood education options for high school students cons again would be the difference in size between Spalding and ashy just some notes yeah there we go that's the whole page is it all up there does it say notes at the top thank you so just in notes um options the eighth grade moving to the high school would likely involve eight modular classrooms in year two as the high high school capacity is at 870 so if students actually are retained and they stop moving to privates and charter schools at the rate that they are now keeping students in that start at the high school could potentially increase our enrollment and again require modular classrooms bus routs would need to be considered but one of those considerations would not be increasing to four tiers because of the cost we don't believe um the majority of these options would not require a fourth tier grade eight again as I talked about moving to the high school keep kids potentially in District um the modular classrooms are very different than they've been in the past eight new modular classrooms would be approximately $2 million and they have a 40-year life expectancy to them they come with their own HVAC in bathrooms as well uh so you could potentially create an eighth grade campus in the back of this build building um Squan cook would maintain business and um HR offices in all scenarios the remaining central office administrators will be located to other Open Spaces in the district once school committee approves a direction special education sub separate programs may also need to be relocated building consolidation may allow for the for a better distribution of this programming both Ashby and Spalding are leased properties where closing a building that the district owns is more complicated in order to close a building that we own we would need special legislation to sell the building and it is unknown where the proceeds from that sale go some consideration uh for when a class at Ashby gets split there are significant issues among staff with regard to equity and workload this may require a policy modification uh again if ashp remains open where currently it says any K4 class reaches 30 students will be split any K to four class reaches 25 students will be looked at at the admin by the administration the issue that that we have often times cost does come into it is that if you split a class up that reaches 30 at ASP Elementary you have two sections of 15 where at Spalding and bar and Brook if you split a class up you're generally going to still maintain that mid2 number so it it is different any Building closed would likely need to be up to date with ADA compliance in order to reopen so if a building closes and it's determined that it may be reopened it would have to be up to date potentially with ADA compliance future capacity issues could strengthen the district's case for an msba project with Hawthorne Brook last year we tried for an msba project with Hawthorne Brook and quite honestly the msba felt that we had too much space we had other options so again that where Au Brook does require some work and some of these options have Townson and Ashby students going to ntia because of the upto-date labs the full Performing Art Center the engineering space the full music and art rooms those are things that are are very they just don't exist in the same way at Hawthorne Brook so again potentially getting approved for a building project down the line so that hawor Brook can be brought really to a current space where previously it was more of an open concept by design school the estimated cost savings um that we have I can go through them quickly I will just round them for you because it was a request to see all buildings again uh Spalding is about $535,000 this is for uh facilities and Technology only hoor Brook 645,000 Ashby Elementary is 381,000 Squan cook is 391,000 barnon Brook is 69,000 Nissa tiit is 77,000 and the high school is 1.4 million that's all I have thank you sir any questions from the committee I have one Jill TW um I appreciate all the hard work that you guys worked on these six choice is but I find it a little disheartening that special education is not listed in any of those programs I would not feel comfortable voting on any of these um without knowing where the special education programs are going so I I would say um all of the options do include special education programming I I would say that if we're going to look at U primarily the subpar programs um something that we do want to keep in mind once the committee gives us a direction is looking at um the amount essentially what does the van transportation look like could it remain in peil would do would it be better to spread it out what does that look like also what do the service providers days look like um what we do try to do if you have a service provider is do our best with eliminating travel because if you have travel um that that's a teaching block that they're not teaching and they're traveling so we do try to minimize the amount of travel that our service providers um that our service providers would do so in some of the options um quite honestly in options where um hawor Brook is is is is two to five potentially um for Ashby and Townson we would likely have to have special education programs in both townend and peil but but but I will say that there there is space um just because of the space the space study that we did there is space for all of our subpar programs but also for our inclusion staff as well but we just want to make sure it's properly balanced throughout the district thank you for on that question anyone else have any questions do you I have a comment not a question um I just wanted to comment on the cons for anything that entailed closing Ashby it was a a very simple Con in this presentation closure of only building in Ashby um but that does entail a lot more than just closing a building it's inequity among the students um a lack of community and sense of security for students long bus rides and not just long they're already an hour with the school 5 minutes away so I can't even imagine how much time would be taken out of these kids' days um not to mention the possible increase in busing costs um a huge decrease in home values if we took only 10% that is a loss of $56 million to the town of Ashby to homeowners um the dramatic shift in the demographic um ashb would not be familyfriendly and Ashby would see a reduction in students with that reduction peppol and Townsen would see an increase automatically in their enrollment numbers and an increase to the amount that they need to pay toward the budget um not to mention the impact to the social emotional learning increased IEPs and honestly I think if we did close Ashby's only school that ashb would never ever pass a building project or an override in the district again so there's a lot more factors to consider than the one fragment of a sentence that's there I just wanted to point that out thank you anyone else Randy um the space studies that were done for these six options uh can you uh let everybody know what class sizes it was based on um as well uh yeah why we start with that so what class size do these six options have for the children to be able to fit into the buildings so as far as sorry as far as the class sizes go we were basing this off of if we had to um close buildings and cut staff so we were looking at larger class sizes in the high 20s to low 30s um if if we don't look at building closures and we look strictly at potentially 2.5 million in staff we would have a real problem fitting students into classrooms um and in managing classrooms because we would likely be in the high 30s um also uh so looking forward if we get more money it we'd probably end up with a reconfiguration uh possibly just because we wanted smaller class sizes I uh so if these are based on um high high 20s to low 30s class size to fit into the buildings with these configurations if we get resources from the state um in future years and we can reduce the class size back down to 26 or even um you know go back a couple decades to when we actually had 21 22 per classroom would this require another reconfiguration just to be able to reduce class sizes um so I don't think I can speak to whether or not it would require another reconfiguration but I I will say that um even in the worst case scenario if we closed two buildings we did um run the numbers at 24 kids in a class and we did have space in the district with with five buildings and was any um studies done or any calculations done on the physical space in the classrooms if I remember correctly uh when we were in the middle of covid and we needed six feet between students we had a a lot of our classrooms uh barely were able to um accommodate half of the class uh that was currently in them uh do we have the physical space and um are there any requirements from the msba or deese on the number of square feet per child in a general Ed classroom is as far as the covid numbers uh we don't have the space now to to go six feet oh no not not to go but I'm just saying do with a high you know high 20s low 30s will that fit into all of the classrooms yes and so we did studies looking at the square foot and does msba have any minimum square feet per child uh that is needed in a general Ed uh classroom I know for building um if you're doing a new building or Renovations they do have square foot requirements um to my knowledge desie only has requirements for kindergarten um does not have it for grades 1 to 12 in msba again to my knowledge only has recommendations based on building projects thank you and I would I would just add again that um here at the high school where um I would say that where it's a new building and we had the square footage to look at we are definitely over in some of our um classes here at the high school as far as um the amount of space that was designed for the kids anyone else Tom are there speaking of class size like are there numbers with each of these options on what the class size might look like so all of our projections if we were to cut between 2 million and 1.5 between 1.5 and $2 million I'm sorry um it looks as though we're going to be in the 28 to 34 range if we go beyond that it it could be worse something something that we don't know for sure yet because it is starting to um organize is that if you do start merging schools does that through attrition lead to reductions just based on class size so not necessarily um cutting a job for financial reasons but because you're merging a class and you can actually do it with three sections instead of four because two buildings have merged does that make sense so that's something that we haven't delved into that much because it is again something that requires scheduling the building and scheduling the kids and we we cannot there's no way that we can schedule the buildings with these six options um that's something that we would need we would need a direction from the committee on which option you want us to explore okay um the other thing just looking at like some of the numbers and and projections so I mean ntis it would go from 465 to 702 um Barum would go from 476 to 684 hawthor would go from 466 to 366 is that what you're kind of looking at in terms of like some of the programming because again where you mentioned like nisit or varum like it's going to be tough if we're kind of adding grades to those schools and I just don't want to make a decision if we're not quite sure about the space so again can you tell me which document you're referencing Mr Casey I'm sorry absolutely so um just looking at so in um the options for FY 2026 yep so the enrollment by town and grade so I just kind of did like what's what's there now so I totaled those numbers and then I compared that with what some of these options would be and then looking at like the projected enrollments for say again if you were to add k to5 at varnum and then kind of just compared that so so in in all the options we we did look at um the the number of students that would be in the building I actually don't have that document in front of me this evening but we did look at the enrollment in all of the buildings um some of this again in looking at classroom space if you look at Nissa tiit and some of the other buildings in the district there are classrooms uh where there are may be a special education classroom that has 12 kids in it but it was designed for a full classroom so in some cases we would be reallocating space for classrooms and relocating smaller groups to suitable spaces elsewhere in the district but again looking to maintain a manageable number of van rides and also a manageable schedule for our service providers if that makes sense MH okay thank you any more questions from anyone J um just a quick question I'm wondering how and when we're soliciting Community feedback um I know that we put Out There community input is vital and will guide the committee's decision making and we had a forum that we gave about six days notice for people to come in person and told them there would be a small amount of time for a small amount of questions um so although we did allow quite a bit of time I don't think we conveyed that to the public so I'm wondering um what the timeline is for this decision making as far as voting on options and when and how we'll get community input do you want me to answer that yes um so I wouldn't say it was 6 days notice I did put out a newsletter in mid October with the date um announcing it the first time so there was um a good amount of notice in in my initial newsletter that went out to families um as far as timeline as to when we need a decision we need a decision now um we have a budget hearing coming up on February 6th and we have to plan our budget around that um again I'm not looking I I I realize as I said earlier nothing that we do tonight or nothing that we do until something happens at the state level is going to solve our budget problem our budget problem is going to exist every year if we save money this year all those budget drivers will increase next year may not be by $3 million but it's going to be a substantial amount and until the state steps in and does something we do we actually need to do something because there's no way that we can keep operating on a budget that by all accounts based on our meetings with with with Town leadership is not going to pass and there will be no override um that's what has been shared with us since August so we do have to schedule a building we have to look at Staffing and we have to give our staff notice and we do ultimately have to give our building leaders the opportunity to schedule buildings and consult with them around um how we can best make this how we can best make whatever model the school committee selects work but generally speaking I I've given my my budget narrative to the school committee if not late November in December um that that can't happen I don't have enough information unless I'm just going to put out a budget that is a 4.43% increase and has no chance of passing and that's quite honestly something that it's a multi-page 253 page document and if it has no chance of passing um we would be better off spending our time on a budget that um does have a chance of passing so I would say that we need a decision from the school committee very soon and we don't have another meeting in December any questions Randy um so my first comment is I thought we had voted I don't know if it was the last meeting on the one before that that we were going to try for an overwrite and we haven't talked about what that reduced number would be um because I will not sit here and vote on anything if we are not going to fight for these children and fight for these students for what we you know what we think they absolutely need I cannot see cutting this as a first option and everything here tonight is being talked about that this is what we're going going for and this is the final answer that we have to give a decision tonight Tom it's supposed to be Plan B Tom did you raise your hand first no Patrick I think what's being overlooked is that even with the largest cut of of two buildings we're still looking at between $ 1.5 and $2 million of of teachers and faculty cut and I am from the mindset of faculty and teachers are more important than buildings um so even with an override I'm not sure that saving buildings makes more sense than saving teachers saving faculty okay well uh I got a few questions or a few pieces on it so you know we are asking for the override piece we we sat up here we had the public forum we've been discussing that with the you know the town administrators to try to work through that piece of it uh Lisa and I also have a meeting coming up in two weeks two weeks that we've been invited to with those Representatives you know very thankful you know I think from the public forum that came up if we didn't have that if we didn't do that I don't think we would have been invited to a meeting to discuss those in further but we do need to look at these other things um one of the questions I have sorry I'm going to directed to you June down the end here um because option three still up there option three you know talks about having you know West towns in Ashby with the Ashby billing committee the capital stuff have you guys do you have an estimated number for you know the repairs necessary for Ashby and we have a plan I can send you right now um essentially the the biggest projects have already been done um the current projects we're looking at are is really a facelift which is what the town um part of the original instruction so all new flooring on the foer the entryway um whole first floor carpet whole second floor carpet ceilings painting like just really a phaselift because we've already done the Asbestos and we've already done the heating um which actually is another just side question which schools do have the heat redundancy because I know that keeps being brought up um when we talk about end and stuff is worry about a boiler so Ashby does have the two boilers now we do have the heat redundancy we don't have any safety issues to address at the moment so I mean eventually we could probably do some cafeteria upgrades and and the a vertical stairlift rather than the stairlift that's there now but there's not like a huge amount of projects or costs on Ashby at the moment like there's not what about the cost of the demo of the 50s wi that would not be on the school that's not something that the school's even using that's a portion that the Town wanted to hold on to and the town May at some point be be repurposing that in which case the town would take care of the asbest and whatever they do if they want to build a senior center or if they decide it's not worth it and take that part out that doesn't really have anything to do with the current School the part that's used but the school district's um responsible for maintaining that part of it currently right if that's what's on the lease I mean I don't I'm not sure why that's still on the lease at this point because it's not something that the school the school had to get everything out of there a few years ago and it's sealed off so there's not the district isn't doing anything with that portion it's just not being utilized as part of the lease so does the does the building your your building committee there in Ashby have like a total number for the capital projects that needs to be done over there I don't know if we have all the estimates I can send you the project in a minute if I can find it um but no we don't have a total number but it's certainly not anywhere near some of the projected numbers were such as heat was projected over 300,000 and it was taken care of for 70,000 with the kitchen renovations what is all in the kitchen renovations area cuz I know that the cooler are broken yeah the the coolers that are built into the building are broken and other coolers have been purchased in the meantime and are that's probably the way they're going to go it's not really worth it to fix the ones that are part of the building um they're using that for other storage and stuff at the moment or or not other storage still food storage but not food storage that has to stay at that temperature essentially because they they do have the other um refrigerators and freezers in there so as far as cafeteria eventually like the floor maybe in some equipment upgrades but also um the dis the school itself is on a water well for the it's the only school that's on the well on the everything in Ashby is on Wells yeah and so we maintain the well in that area right for the school uh I don't think the district does yes the district does that's a project was done there a few years ago Randy was on the committee I'd have to go back and see I do remember that there were some things that we had done because we were sharing the well with the town um so I'm not sure where that landed as far as who takes care of it and um how that gets split I was going to say um does the administration know I mean they be the ones s let us snow the water the well who maintains the well District maintains the district maintains that Nancy is saying any further questions um Randy I'd like to know from the administration uh two things um one as far as the six options um it's it's great that we have six options in front of us and we have some pros and some cons um I'd really like to hear since you were very intimate in putting this together um one um what were your priorities when you were looking at other budget cuts versus uh building and staff because staff sounds like it's just increasing class sizes um and two which of these options um are on your you know top two that you would recommend to the school committee and why in speaking for the central office um I would say that when it comes to priority prioritizing we absolutely do prioritize staff over buildings um as far as um making other reductions I feel as though we've answered a lot of questions we've gone through um line items and we've identified $500,000 um outside of Staffing that could potentially be cut which would also have ramifications um quite soon um I I would say down the road but it would be quite soon um and they're not permanent reductions uh so the only priority that unfortunately we were able to look at because we do feel as though our budget is um quite thin already is look is prioritizing staff over buildings um where do students come in on this um I I would put students at the Forefront um personally uh I I would try and keep for because right now I 100% agree with everything that's been said by the administration that our budget is Bare Bones it's less than Bare Bones in some places and I 100% agree that we are in a bad spot we need more funding we need more for the students um but my philosophy is I would rather go for status quo for the students keep them in the same siiz classrooms keep them with the same programs keep them with the same uh education that they are getting right now and forgo advancement in the district until we can afford it more or go backwards on some things like uh technology on toone technology has been um very expensive uh when we went to it we knew it was an increased cost it was a huge benefit to the students and to the teachers but is it time that we reconsider that because um we can't afford it anymore and I know it would be an adjustment for teachers an adjustment for some of the programs that rely on some of that technology um but I would much rather see us go backwards as far as technology um and keep the students education and what they see in front of them um at the Forefront and just to just to clarify uh the PRI PRI prioritizing staff does prioritize students um I want to make sure that the class sizes um are as manageable as possible if we get up to numbers that are too high um they'll be again very difficult to manage and students will unfortunately bear the brunt of that uh so when I'm talking about staff I'm I'm putting students in with that because students need good teachers manageable class sizes in front of them any further questions Lisa Blom can you tell me how much you pay for the pr firm it's in that budget detail it's uh I can't find it on the it's on the detail I can't find it on the budget it's all a small screen well we're looking for that any further questions Randy so I went looking at uh the dec website um at our Dart schools which surprisingly to me had changed over the years um but currently uh we our darts schools a dart for anybody out there is the um the similar districts uh to demographics and other criteria they have that we would be similar to are asbery Danvers Bila Triton Dartmouth Norton sandwich North adelar belr toown and East Long Meadow and I took a quick look at how many buildings each of those schools have what their per pupil cost is what their enrollment is um and um uh we kind of fall sort of in the middle as far as per pupil cost um obviously the um Asbury Danver Danvers Bila Triton which are in the NorthShore or inside of 495 had higher per pupil costs but I don't think that that surprises anybody um you had uh Dartmouth Norton sandwich and North adaro are um on the Southshore either on the cape for sandwich or um down over by Rhode Island the Southshore um those were generally less except for sandwich which is the cape um for pupil um cost for us and then obviously the two belter town and East Long Meadow out west were significantly less than our per pupil costs and it didn't seem to matter on the number of buildings you have Danvers is a little less than a thousand uh per pupil cost of greater than us and they have SE seven buildings uh Bill Rick is in the same when they have eight buildings you have North adabor has eight buildings and they're about $3,000 per pupil costs less than us um so I I'm I I wonder where in our budget are the huge differences between some of these uh budgets and hours for them to be that drastically different with the same number of buildings because the buildings are not driving our budget so I think we need to take a deep dive into our budget on what are we doing different than some of these other districts if they can do it for so much less and they have onetoone technology and some of these I've checked out um they have a lot of the same things that we do um it's something to take a look at um and compare ourselves and our in our budgets to see if there's savings that we can that we didn't know about or that they're doing something uh in a better way that we can adopt to save money in our budget did you look at the special education programs um all of them had very similar um um special needs uh as us so that's why if you take a look in the dart um they were all right around the same and these were 2020 uh 2022 costs or I think which is what the deese website has um and some of them had a higher rate of uh special needs and high needs students than us and some of them had a little bit lower but we are all probably within a four to 5% range I mean I don't want to cherry pick but B Rook is a giant School compared to us and as you mentioned like inside of 495 financially it's not I don't think comparable it's only one but yeah they have buildings in I was just going to add a lot of the dart districts are difficult comps because if they're not regionals they're operating under a different funding formula or the funding formula addresses them differently there are I mean for instance there are there are some of those hold harmless districts those some of those hold harmless project 21 districts are actually receiving a significant amount of money the only reason that they're on that list is because many of them have dropping enrollment and even though they're getting the money the only the only way that the Regional Schools can move forward is by getting as many state reps and as many senators as possible behind this so even districts that aren't necessarily suffering because Burlington and wal thing him are two very well-funded districts they're considered hold Harless they're on Project 211 the only way that we can move forward is by getting those state legislators behind us we need their state legislators too so their enrollments dropping but they have they have other funding sources which we don't have and many of our Dart districts um Danver being one of them has um know I would say a bustling downtown um which again is not something that any of our three communities have so it is a different there is a commercial tax base there right but the amount of money we get from the state doesn't have uh necessarily have anything to do with the per pupil cost that that's that's irregardless of where the funding comes from it's how much your budget is divided by the number of students the the number our per pupil cost the number of buildings only impacted by about 9% the buildings are only about 9% of that operational building costs 9% is factored into per puple cost a des right so I'm just making the point that we have other places you know uh belra Town out west is certainly not a bustling uh town as far as I know um out west uh certainly um their incomes are less um and they have 2,000 students so less than us five buildings and they're at 16,41 for their per pupil cost we're we're at $1,599 for 2022 I'm just saying there's drastic differences in some of these budgets and I don't think it's being driven by the number of buildings than Patrick so we've sat already and gone through the budget though like I I I agree that we are different than belter toown but we don't know what those differences are whether it be special ed programs whether it be they might not have one for one like there's a lot of things that could be but you've looked at our budget is there anything on there that you saw that could be cut because I know we we sat and had a long meeting and went over this yes and no one seems to want to make um I shouldn't say no uh yes I have identified a number of different uh cuts and there were reasons why we can't go backwards in every one of those um scenarios of what I have uh suggested um except for increasing class size seems to be the best of the worst and I don't buy that I just remember a lot of those recommendations were very small amounts of money um I have come up with another list looking at it and it was well over a million dollars have we seen that list and and that that I'm just I'm no I I I shared it with the the administration okay [Music] any further questions June um just a quick question um regarding lease buildings and own buildings um I I understand we would need special leg legislation to sell a building um so have we looked into that what does that entail has that pursued at all and um why do we not know where the proceeds would go and have we pursued that and on that note um we were leasing Squan cook and um it's been brought up a couple times to potentially lease it again um and essentially the answer was there nobody will lease it but have we looked into that as well has anyone pursued any of these things so we have not looked into leasing a sale of the building primarily because both Squan cook and hawthone Brook share um water and networking lines um and as as far as excuse me in septic I'm sorry so any type of leasing or sale uh could potentially create a problem because that is something we have been told cannot be changed it has to be as it is it has to be a shared line um and again a lot of the network in fuana cook comes from hathorn Brook as far as the leasing I it hasn't really been looked at because of the amount of leasing space that is available across the street here um there's a tremendous there has been a significant amount of space for the past couple years that has been there are vacant offices across the street I know the bank um finally does have someone going in but it appears to be there seems to be a significant amount of least space that's available now that is not being taken either way the the sewer and septic line would create a problem and I don't think as a school district we should get into leasing buildings it's hard for us it's we're not landlords I mean it's just how it should be we're not the landlords okay I have another question um I know somebody from town reached out to desie regarding the regional agreement that's in process right now and mentioned that we are entertaining school closures and the contact at desie was very surprised to hear that not only would we consider closing a school but multiple schools um and I and said that they were going to start talking to people about it there because they they were surprised nobody's informed them yet um have we reached out to desie at all they also said that there is extra State money for emergency type um issues has anybody requested any of that since we are clearly in a budget crisis I've reached out to desie um at least once in the past two years for emergency money and they did help us out a couple years ago with a multilingual teacher as far as reaching out to Desi to communicate building closures um that to my knowledge is a school committee decision not a desie decision um just one more comment that doesn't um have to do that with that in particular but looking at the building costs um I did find it rather interesting that to run an entire Elementary School uh well not run but essentially the the building costs um are less than the cost of the building that central office and preschool are in um so Ashby is the lowest cost building um comparable to a nearly empty building just wanted to point that out so just to clarify um I and again I can't I'm not going to say exactly but I believe we have two empty classrooms at sanook right now um the Keystone is still there so I would imagine the costs are being being Incorporated with Keystone being there um we have I I believe actually we only have one empty classroom at Squan cook because they actually are up on the second floor now as well when are they leaving I thought they had left already we couldn't hear you they leaving when when is uh the Flack uh they still haven't given me a final dat yet okay their lease runs until December but they'll continue to pay until until they leave any more questions next steps well I think we were we started to ask this question but what what's the administration's recommendation of these six options the administration feels at option for would be our best option at this point again just stct LLY and looking at the finances of it I I don't see any situation where I I still don't know how we cut um you know option four saves approximately a million dollars uh with the technology and curriculum savings that's 500,000 that's 1.5 in savings I still don't see how we get to 3 million I I don't see how we could possibly cut 1.5 million in staff by the combining of some schools that would that would certainly lead to some reductions um but it's not going to lead to 1.5 million in reductions and um you know I I think that we're all feeling that if there's going to be a request for additional funds knowing that this is going to be potentially a multi-year problem with um the student Opportunity Act not ending until FY 27 and we've been promised really no additional money from the state until the end of FY 27 um I I I would say that possibly look to see if we could get some additional funds to avoid having to make $1.5 million in cuts to teachers and counselors and power professionals nurses and to be clear I there's no one on the team feels any of these are good options so just a comment or a question in in any of the cases with the options um and the additional cuts that were uh in the other the other part of this um we're still going to be short so in any of the cases we're going to need an override right correct well we don't necessarily need an override if we do have to proceed and cut 1.5 million in staff if we do cut that 1.5 million staff then again our class sizes are going to be right and we're not even counting potentially kids moving in kids moving out again there's usually a lot of uh movement in the summer um so we could very well end up with a reduction like that looking at class sizes in the low to mid-30s um which quite honestly is um is I I feel as though it's untenable um and this day and age of Education things have changed a great deal um teachers um have a tremendous amount to deal with our councils have a tremendous amount to deal with our Paris um that's that would be a significant strain that would make that would have a negative impact on on students in this District okay and that would so that would that would I I guess be um the staff reductions additional staff reductions would be in the event that we didn't get an override okay that's what I was just want clarify what whatever option we go with here or we select right we're still going to be short okay I just want to clarify I mean something I mean something that's important to consider is that if if we have to make cuts and we're able to reinstate some things in May and June that is something that we may be able to do there's no guarantee that the teachers are still going to be here um or the councelors or the Paris or whatever role they're playing because there are vacancies elsewhere that can't be filled the bigger challenge is going to be is if we don't know what buildings we have if we wait until June we will not be ready to open in September um because the scheduling takes a significant amount of time significant oh yeah understood Okay so yep any questions Lisa um did you find out the answer it's on uh yes it's in the full budget detail it's uh in line uh 1110 uh it's $112,000 this year any further questions Patrick so is this at a point where like we can just feel that like are people ready to vote do people want to talk about like what options are they're considering like I'm not sure how this works like we can't just vote on everyone so I'm not sure how how we get to anything so just kind of some clarification I guess on the way forward I think we've all not been at this position before and so there's not a clear way to do it um any okay go ahead I mean to get it on the table so then um I move that we continue along with option four as our plan B a second but I'm not sure why it's a plan B it's suppos to because plan a is override it's an override do are we going for a full 3 million in the override though because I mean even if we got half a million or a million in the override I'd prefer to save faculty over buildings so I'm just not sure how we how we do that June um prior to any motion being made I did have my hand up um this is the first time any of this has been brought forward to the public after four meetings of talking about closures so again I'm wondering at what point are we listening to community feedback since this is the first time this was publicly presented I agree Patrick I I don't know about you June but I've been getting chewed out three email for weeks now months if not years about Ashby alone there have been multiple meetings like I mean I think everybody's fully aware of the situation I've been like I know that you've been speaking with everybody I've been speaking with people in peol like I think everybody's fully aware of where we're at and as far as the options it's it's your job as a Committee Member to make that decision none of these options have been put out to the public before so you're the only person in the entire committee who has even mentioned ashb Elementary at the meeting so then last week when or two the finance meeting a few weeks ago when there was a lot of people here speaking passionately what they were aware of options that schools could be closing what does that change what which schools are closing and what makes a difference but and were you not listening to all the people that spoke against closing schools then because that is what we're saying that we wanted to do was listen to community input so then is your option to close no schools is your option to close no schools I would prefer to close no schools yeah but if I school I certainly that puts us 2 and half million in faculty Cuts schools everyone just speak one at a time please so so by closing those schools you're at 2 and a half million faculty Cuts that's that's class Brad what if if we don't cut any schools 2 and a half million cuts are we looking at like high 30s what are we looking at if we don't cut any buildings at all it would be approximately a $2.5 million reduction in staff I I would I mean I'm just guessing I would say mid to high 30s possibly 40 in some cases I'm pretty sure there's other places to find money especially when we just announced we have over 2 million in excess in revolving funds there's a lot of other things that we have looked at Randy has sent said she sent a million and ideas so I don't understand why we're not looking at these other things more closely one two this is the first meeting that any schools were publicly announced and three closing multiple buildings is very shortsighted and merits a lot of discussion not a packet given us to us a day before a holiday less than a week before a meeting shortsighted would be making cuts the last 15 years and not having a plan I mean there's a lot of things that have been shortsighted this we're out of options we've sat and gone through the entire budget together and looked for things last year I I was against using the R&D because it made this year worse year last year Patrick I voted on the budget last year yes it was my first meeting it was my first meeting and I was very much so against R&D then and as they've told us now eend D is not the way to go because then when something does break we don't have money to fix it on more buildings than less now it just doesn't make sense it's just a it's just a logic argument like I like I don't want to close buildings either but there's there's nothing else and if we do dip into our revolving funds to answer some things that's giving away our savings account and I don't think we can do that because those revolving funds do not grow at the speed that we need them to grow to cover some of our costs and it's one time many savings accounts are we sitting on between revolving funds and end and capital plan money I mean we we can't just tuck a bunch of money aside in the bank and then say oh sorry guys we need more money now we're going to fire people and close your buildings while we're sitting on money still we we also can't say hey we're glad we have seven buildings and teachers but we C it closed because the roof went we don't have the money to fix it like there you need those funds you can't just burn everything dry to save us one more year here there there there there and there why do we need it spread all over the place it adds up it really adds up if we took just that money alone we wouldn't even be having this conversation and I'm not saying to take that money I'm saying to look a little deeper yeah nobody wants to lose anyone nobody wants to lose staff nobody wants to lose admin you know what I work on a team of three people one person left and they said guess what we're not going to replace this person you have to do a little bit more yeah sucks you do a little more like that's what people do like and we've been doing that for a lot of years what we've added in the last 10 years for positions programs can I we look at those and say they're nice to have they've been good but we got by without them before maybe we start looking at some of that superintendent Morgan so I just a couple things um I I do want the commit to be aware this is early on in the process nothing is final we don't have the governor's numbers yet um we simply need a Direction so that we can begin working and if we do need to Pivot we can pivot um as far as using the revolving funds I went on the record last year of not being in favor of using end we used all of it we used $2.6 million this year we got 1.8 million we're using all of it again if we use all of our evolving money and we have a major emergency in the school district because we we are no longer funding capital and we're not funding stabilization we're not going to be able to pay for something that happens it may seem like there's a lot of money in that but quite honestly it's it's to me if you can't spend everything that you have we don't have any additional money for emergencies in this District if a boiler goes again I know what Ashby's cost was but if a boiler goes to this high school they don't make boilers like they like they used to a boiler could conceivably go here a boiler at this school is not going to be1 or $200,000 it's going to be much more than that because we have to get something that's going to work with the system that's high efficiency if we lose Refrigeration again costs if we need roofs we have buildings that are old that are in need of repair if we use all of our revolving then we have nothing left we also have a lease on a turf field that is not part of the budget and that's something else that that's a onetime cost that could be paid off and we would save money on interest but to use both revolving accounts and all of our end um this that the state does not recommend using any end and we used all of it and revolving funds are handled Again by most districts as if they're managing their own home um having enough money set aside so that if something happens uh you know ultimately it's a school committee's decision it's a school committee's money um but I would just add and again this is I am I would love not to make any of these decisions or to close buildings or to cut staff I would love to keep everything as it is the reality is is that the state is not coming through for us and I think we have to look at a couple more years so yes there is money if we spend it all and we encounter a problem we will not be able to pay for it we won't be able to fix it we will have to potentially close school in a particular building that's it thank you any more questions or comments June I just want to clarify that I was not saying we should completely empty all of our funds but that I do feel that we have enough that we could use some of it towards this agreed if we have some onetime cost that makes sense to do that I would actually you know I absolutely agree with that I think there's a couple of items that we have on the agenda but I don't think well I know there's not $2 million in there because we're spending more than is in there every more than gets replaced in that account every year in those four accounts and some of these revolving funds we actually have to be careful with and not use like a students activities ones that's their fundraising we can't touch that no absolutely there's $2 million not in anything uh that the students um raise or the schools raise themselves and the other thing I want to point about some revolving funds is like our student what is it student Choice school choice school choice school choice we are not taking any school choice children in we are not getting extra money coming in we and those kids are aging out of our system so we are Los losing that money so that's one thing to consider when looking at those funds June um a comment about um option four um looking at the cons it it has as many or more cons than most of the other ones um however the impact again closure of only building in Ashby which I'll reiterate and entails a lot more than what that fragment of a sentence says but also lent the bus ride from ashbe of peil so out of the cons two of the three cons are potentially against one subset of our students one Community out of our we rnm District so to choose the one option that targets a single Town doesn't make sense and again I think closing two buildings is far too extreme um I I think that's not a good option at all none of these are good options but I think four definitely is um targets one town over the others any more questions or comments Patrick did you second yours you did second so we do have a motion on the floor are people ready to vote or any more questions you might want to repeat what it is can we repeat the uh the motion go ahead please you want me to remember that uh I think I think it was correct May I'm wrong but to allow the superintendent to continue on option four as our backup plan to an override and Patrick second is that close Rob yeah okay thank any more discussion um I just want to say that we need to really think of the future um closing two schools leades us with almost no room whatsoever for any expansion um should we have um in peil they had I don't believe a passed but they had a plan for a 100 unit uh building or you know set of buildings to go up um there's MBTA buildings or communities in both Ashby and Townsen now that I believe pass both um towns I don't know if and when anything might come about um um but to be shortsighted that we will never get any uh growth in this town in these towns um even in the near future this leaves us with you know having to do modular classrooms I don't think that's a good choice um if we close buildings we cannot do additions through the msba for the next 10 years um if we were shortsighted enough to close buildings and then need capacity again um don't think it affects Renovations but does uh but it does right on their website say it will affect uh doing any kind of expansion projects um I think two buildings is way too extreme any other comments Jun uh can we have a roll call vote on this just so it's not whoever pops into I plan on doing a roll call vote thank is everyone ready m okay I'm going to go alphabetically Lisa Bloom no billberg no I have the initials right will Hackler yes Tom Casey yes sorry I messed up my alphabet there Jill twig yes Randy Rush no June mcneel no Pat MC Phillips yes and myself yes five yeses and four NOS motion passes and the motion passes that's option four right I think that's it I think I did put on an executive session but we do not need the executive session at this time so I think we can take a motion motion to adour and that's Patrick all all of those in favor I I I any extensions any notes [Music]