##VIDEO ID:7PlU0gGCaU0## e e e e e e e e e e we are officially calling to order the meeting of the North St Paul Planning Commission January 2nd 2025 2025 wow makes me feel old sorry about that all right uh we have an agenda in front of us anybody have any comments or want to make a motion to adopt the agenda as is want to do roll call First oh roll call we're all here oh yes that's right roll call is the first thing on the agenda I apologize thank you Riley I like to see things move I was going to let you go and just go ahead and take it but I thought yeah maybe we should take roll call so uh excuse me um commissioner Alvarez here commissioner Kane burbach here commissioner muick here commissioner rothy here and chair B here and Commissioners wise and Gad boy are absent this evening and then also present uh staff uh community development director Riley grahams and city council aison Jason nordby all right now somebody wants to make a motion to adopt the agenda I'll make a motion a second what the heck motion by commissioner Ry second by commissioner Mick all in favor say I I we have an agenda uh approval meeting minutes from December 5th meeting where we discussed we had the public hearing about the Cannabis ordinance that is correct and had a bit of discussion we did are there any comments changes questions about the meeting minutes from that meeting I did not see anything myself so I would uh entertain a motion to approve the December 5th meeting minutes I I'll uh I you want a second I need a motion I'll make a motion motion from commissioner rothy is a Sarah second I'll second second from commissioner Alvarez any other questions or anything discussion if not uh all in favor say I I I None opposed with that the meeting is open to the public and there doesn't appear to be any public here so there will be no public speaking and there will be no public hearings and we are to commission business item seven on the agenda staff report all right uh item a is election of chair and vice chair and oh yes per uh chapter 32.0 eight of the city code at the first regular meeting of the calendar year the Planning Commission shall elect a chairperson and a vice chairperson among its appointed members each for a one-year term uh I do know that uh commissioner Weise who is absent this this evening um did alert staff that he would be interested in uh the V Vice chairperson I call it VP Vice chairperson position if um the commission is so inclined to so other than that that being the case um I would call for nominations for chair Bill b Mr B Mr B from Mr rothy anyone else I guess it depends on whether you want to stand again H interesting according to the process and procedure there's not a I accept the nomination component which I think there should be I would accept the nomination drafted whether you want to be or not I would I would are there any others there are no others than uh nomination for vice chair go ahead and nominate Mr wise Mr wise seems to be agreeable to doing it again anybody else anybody really want the job see that's the other component you nominate yourself I suppose couldn't you good good always an option yeah seems could so we have a nomination for each um that being the case um I assume there's no other further discussion in that case vote for uh Mr B for chair all in favor hi hi and for Mr wise for vice chair all in favor I I we are good you don't need to do it by secret ballot unanimous we have to do an acceptance speech now M we save that for rep thanks everybody that's my speech now we'll let some other politician do that is it politics is not my thing this isn't a political position after all that's correct this is something somebody assigned me to you've done well at it all right proceed you make it sound like homework though to talk well it really isn't very much homework because we have a very effective staff doing most of the work so with that being said talk about the capital Improvement plan right well each year the capital Improvement plan is uh obviously reviewed and updated by City staff as well as uh and then approved by the city council um this usually includes uh many various amendments to the CIP as City projects um other needs various state federal local requirements they come and go uh as quickly as they uh arrive and uh the CIP is is really a means to achieve uh the comprehensive plan uh goals Set uh forth by the city um obviously the the comprehensive plan is is a longer range guide more than anything else it's supposed to take a look at uh past Trends future uh Trends and then um try to put some goals in place uh so that the city can use that document as as really as a planning tool to effectively achieve uh try to achieve some of those goals um the CIP is is again a sort of a subset of that where uh more of a financial planning document um but you uh typically staff would attach um for each of those goals attach okay what you know what kind of equipment do we need what kind of other uh Capital expenditures are going to be required to achieve those goals obviously the CIP is reviewed annually and it and frankly it's updated monthly um you know in-house uh just because changes in goals and tasks uh happen all the time um but the Planning Commission um uh historically has been tasked with reviewing the comp plan per the state statute and city code and uh then is necessary um to be updated uh by the city uh before it can expend any of those uh CIP funds so the relevant city code that we're looking at this evening is 32.279214 some of the goals um and some of the things that the Planning Commission should be aware of when you're looking at um the CI the CIP amendments as it relates to the uh comp plan um you know from my perch um we review this all the time uh I pretty much look at it every single day along with the finance department so um we are continually churning out and and updating um the CIP um throughout the calendar year um but really this is just a good start you know stop start point for the Planning Commission to take a look at the the uh plans and um providing input to the city council that uh you see fit so I I think for this evening what we're looking for is if there's any recommendations to any alterations that the Planning Commission um thinks would be necessary um we could take those uh and and forward goes on to the city council for for their evaluation so just out of curiosity on the on the um staff report you have bolded text as as to responsibilities of the Planning Commission corre that's not changes that's just you were just highlighting that for us yes to understand the nature of our the nature of duties okay I have to admit uh section M gives me a very small twinge of heartburn and I'm not not really sure how else to say it but you know we get along fairly well with the city council but if you were to have uh a less and agreeable meeting of the Minds between us and them they could do an in run around us around our responsibilities by saying they don't want us to take a look at things and I I don't really know that there is a solution to this it's just that it just seems like them being able to exclude us from something that we might need to or might should see simply because they feel like we don't need to see it or they don't want us to see it if you understand my my meaning there and like I say in many respects I I know it's not a problem now I'm just thinking about what could happen in the future and I don't really have any recommendations I just wanted to express that concern one of the things I'll say to that um because there was talk a couple months ago May of possibly changing something on a shortterm notice um my understanding is if something that changes in there and it does not come before you um because of expedited needs or for whatever reason it now needs a super majority vote from the council rather than just a simple majority vote um so not that exactly what you're afraid of couldn't still happen but the requirements to pass it do so somewhat change okay so the 2/3 is a super majority vote well super majority is four fifths oh four fths like I said I just I I'm hoping it would never ever become a problem it's just that you know that's one of the things that I do in my job is I look for potential problems and how do we get how do we solve those before they become a problem MH I I agree with you that it does not it's not a concern that I would Express for today for our current condition but we always are looking at what's the future have in store for us so but like I said the super majority certainly makes me feel better about something like that that's not what this is talking about M isn't talking about what you correct because this is the city council made by resolution adop by two3 vote two3 dispens with the requirements of the section propos Capital has relation the comprehensive plan so that's not what you're referring to well let's say that I would feel more comfortable if they would make that a super majority as opposed to 2/3 but this is way it's written now right no but you're referring to something different than this no the the that's not in here yeah what you were referring to what what I'm referring is not in here this it only requires 23 if we don't believe it has no relationship to the comprehensive plan if it does have relationship to the comprehensive plan and for whatever reason it does not go before the Planning Commission then it requires that super majority so he he was worried about a circumventing the Planning Commission right there's there's a separate path but it requires a four fifths there's a separate path but it requires a four fifth well what about the first sentence shall riew all Capital Improvements I mean isn't all fall under that large category of all things related to Capital Improvements to begin with right unless so it's written unless the council has deemed that it does not have a relation ship to the comprehensive plan which is really our the comp plan compatibility is what our job is so if it's if it's an issue not related to that then they can by two-thirds vote say Okay Planning Commission doesn't need to see this and review it so that's the exception to the all items got it I think that I think it makes sense yeah because if it if it doesn't relate to the comp plan why do we need to see it right yeah I agree with that we we don't want to get bogged down by having to look at everything in the I mean it's bad enough that Council needs to get bogged down by it right that's what they make the big bucks for right that's what they make the big bucks for all right are there any other comments related to the capital Improvement plan are there any is there or is there anything from Council leaon that maybe we specifically should look at or well one one of the recommendations I have um for this um commission um and is because I think so highly of you for this budgeting process we moved some of the 2025 comprehensive um items down the road a little farther right um so before the budget process starts for the 2026 comprehensive plan I would recommend that this board looks at you know like in May or early June the 2026 items and gives the council recommendations on these are things that although currently are in the 2026 plan maybe we should move it to 2027 maybe we should move it to 2028 or here something in 2027 we think should move to the 2026 um because once they are in the comprehensive plan the budget in process does budget for them um and there is no further need to come before Council um I find your Insight and information invaluable so if this is something that the commission would be willing to do um like say come May June I think it would be um very valuable for the city MH I would certainly support us getting a staff report much as I hate to put more stuff on staff uh about uh proposed budget realignments on items you know what what needs or what they would like to do earlier or later and just like a couple of sentences or a sentence saying why and it's it's fine if it's just because of you know to balance the budget type of thing doesn't have to be a you know a paragraph explaining everything but I think that that would be great if we could see that maybe I would recommend when is the city's fiscal year because I know what the state is calendar year calendar calendar year okay then yeah just sometime in the summer so that we've got a couple of months in case anything contentious came up and we needed to go back once or twice to get additional information yep we can easily do that when when does the council start looking at the seriously start looking at the coming Year's budget late June okay June July okay a little earlier than I thought yeah so maybe May then if yeah you guys then we should do that in May and and I think this year we moved three to four items from the 2025 yeah down the road M um I noticed that there were some yeah were moved yep we can do that I'll I'll plan that did you have something further so being this is this is my first sequence through through a year here in my my first January so Planning Commission shall review all proposed Capital Improvements where do we do that when do we do that is that you doing that tonight we're doing that's what we're doing tonight yeah I didn't I didn't actually see anything that was an alert oh what about this or yeah and if there was something I would have I would have you would have highlighted it yeah and I guess that was one of the reasons why I was making the recommendation is to me it's a little bit backwards that we're reviewing the 2025 tonight because that's already been budgeted approved and everything's been levied for where I think there's more value in us being a little bit more proactive rather than reactive um at the beginning of the year right agreed very good concept so I guess the one thing that I would say is as you're looking through that information if there are items that jump out for 26 27 Etc if we can have a listing of those items I think that would be useful things for us to think about consider prepare for you know think think on on a twoyear cycle because I don't I mean I don't see it going beyond that at any point in time but you know if we think about those two years I mean there maybe something that jumps out yeah because I think there were a couple of construction projects coming up in the next couple of years and I don't know whether they are items we'd need to review but if we did need to it' be nice to be able to to know about it you got it and Riley has the the document provided by wal for the building assessment made available to the Planning Commission yet have you seen that I don't I know I have not building what building assessment we referring to go ahead no I was going to say it's it's a building assessment um that um all for all properties yeah oh okay that um and I foret is it a 10y year I can't forget how seven or 10 but but I through the year that you presented us so was it was that through 2035 I think no not not that far out I I believe 10 10 year but we just got it it was delayed in getting to us I think we got it late November almost it doesn't sound familiar to me okay but but I think it would be very good information for this commission to have that at their disposal to put a little bit of um history and numbers behind some of the is that a just out of curiosity is that a public document available to the public the planning or should it be Council approved that didn't they accepted it and approved it I'm 98% sure it is but 2% if the council looked at it and voted on it and approved it then it should be public yeah okay what's the purpose of this document um we we wanted to see um how we have been doing on prevented maintenance and maintenance of all the property of North St Paul so this evaluated like 1 through seven where these things needed to be done for this property this year seven could wait um till 10 years from now and really help us budget appropriately for the life cycle of these buildings um because we didn't a lot of it we were shooting from the hip um prior to this document about when is a when is a roof needed on this building when is a roof needed on um Public Works Public Works um City owned properties all city- owned properties even down to like the tuck pointing on this building I noticed was scheduled for I think 2027 yep I yep tuck pointing and and everything um we just felt that in order to properly budget throughout the years for all the North St Paul properties we needed more than just a little shooting from the hip yeah yeah yeah I'm glad you mentioned that because I did keep wondering as I read the the the excuses well the the reasons I should say in the report that kept referring back to the wal report and I kept thinking I don't remember this report but maybe it was online and I needed to look at it yep I can get it sent you guys and I'm assuming that that's just the buildings right because I did notice that like the vehicles also had several different timelines some of them were uh like a 10year maintenance replacement and others were on longer so I'm assuming that's coming from something else the vehicles were definitely coming from something else but I believe it was all property um I there because I think it mentioned something about like some parking lots yeah um so so permanent permanent fixtures of properties vehicles and such come that that that you that's housed in this uh CIP okay it include properties not not roadways and things but properties where buildings sit yeah well the sorry there was some information there about the Margaret Street uh repairs and and upgrades to Margaret Street and a couple of others in there so that's also coming from a different document pretty sure that's a different document it was the same meeting it was discussed at um but that was that was a report from WSB not yeah right that's what I was thinking that's who would yep normally do that so and believe me I don't want you guys to have to do a large dump of paperwork on us that's just I've just got questions um well WSB did give us a comprehensive um uh road map shall we say pun intended of the roads of um when those are needed for um reconstruction too I remember seeing that last year so thank you anything else do we need to take action with this officially I'm just trying to remember if we do or not um we do and we don't need to does that put any binds on I I think I think you can make a uh presuming you have no recommendations or anything related to the um CIP I think you could make a motion um let's see here I'm guessing those are the two attachments that you included in the email that's combined 500 here looking at right now right he didn't print all 200 I didn't want to print 500 pages3 that's right it was 543 a lot of pages the one sip itself was just 212 but there I think we got two different sips so R are you expecting us to be able to review that review that document in its entirety I did am I expecting you to no um that is that is uh the work of your talented dedicated staff members yeah and then we would be alerting you of hey by the way this item is in here for this reason it was changed because of ABC perfect we didn't have any of those for you this evening or you should pay attention to this one I would I would have called out specific things for you to pay attention to we felt like there was nothing that game was coming out of left field so I didn't I didn't want to yeah got it we are very grateful for our talented and hardworking staff we are very much so um value them immensely among these the language that's in on this document there I don't see anything that says send this back to the council with our yeah I I think if there was if there were recommended changes that would probably be put into a form of a motion to be forwarded agre I'm not hearing any so I think we could presume that everything looks good like we've had the discussion we're good proceed proceed yep okay and then we'll just surface it in a call it a May time frame to when we'll riew the information that's an excellent idea yeah we'll look into that I mean if they're going to have their budget in June maybe it's starts in April I don't know I just something to put on the table depending on what what our knowing my Finance St has part already started and that's a good thing yeah very good but help me just clarify so we're going to look at the 2025 one that's what we're that's what we're supposed to be looking at yeah so for that's already been voted on 2025 is already is already basically like you said budgeted it's a great question because historically we've done that at the begin of each year and then you make recommendations for alterations got to the approved so what you are correct it's a little backwards we're kind of making arrangements though to change this so that we start getting it earlier in the future and I I think I think what makes sense is we could maybe do a a a review you know in that made time frame once we kind of know what's coming down the pipe and then I think we could probably do this exercise at the end of each year before probably November or whenever before the final budget's approved sense yeah budget gets approved when last meeting of the year last meeting of the Year okay that's so mid called mid December that's what I thought early to mid December okay that sounds like a good plan yeahh that makes sense put it in writing I'm all about making sense so it makes sense okay that being the case we're just rolling on with our uh agenda here um we are up to uh reports so um let's start with our Council liaison do you have anything I'm just excited to say that I will still be your liaison for the next two years um the leaon assignments have been decided and I I feel like I won because I feel how is that how is that determined by the way uh at the pleasure of the mayor at the pleasure of the mayor okay the short no I I you must have done okay at your job or he wouldn't have put you back in that spot exactly either that or else you're continuing to piss him [Laughter] off no I I feel I won the lottery with this commission so thank you all good excellent thanks uh which end do we want to start on we can start with me start with you none nothing none nothing nothing nothing nothing okay happy New Year yeah I wish I had something really important to share but not really you're in the same role for another year you get excited what going on here I feel like hey we've got a good system it works I won the chair again you can say that yeah oh I yeah I could do my speech my Acceptance Speech but I really don't have one truly but just out curiosity do we have any idea how well the occupancy of the new apartment building has gone um you know I have uh we I think the last time we heard was was uh it was over 40% occupied but this was in boy this is late November guessing they were getting multiple each week as we go on so that's that news is well over a month old so I'm sure it's higher now and it it is there definitely occupancy well I know Chris is in there Chris is in there y I am in fact we should have Chris we should have Chris hold a meeting there so we can all come check it out in his living room in his living room exactly wouldn't be I'll tell them tomorrow the One update to that I'll have is unfortunately um as of last month we heard that um none of the work units had been rented as businesses as businesses so they they and their year time frame commitment had passed so they are looking to rent those as um residential yeah I think we knew that that might be a problem when we looked at things mhm yeah as I recall a lot of those live work units in many places have had problems renting them out to businesses which is a shame doesn't mean it won't happen in the future no fingers crossed yeah it would be nice yep it is okay just our curiosity I'm sorry out curios the the parking space that's over there by Sidewinders it's been up forever do we get any expressions of interest on that at all because I haven't heard anything over there I think the city owned parking behind there uhuh um I I haven't heard anything okay I was just thinking I don't think I've ever heard anything there during the couple years I've been on the commission there um I'm going to guess and say six months ago um there was a discussion in city um Council about whether or not we wanted to make it a green space um but there was some issues getting water um to that space um so because of the water issue um it was decided to not make it a green space really don't let Sarah ZKA know that will jump Parks committee curious curious about water being an issue with that but it could make a nice Green Space if they would do it you know I could see putting like a Band Shell in there for the groups that always entertain there in front of sidewinders it it was just because right now it doesn't have its own meter um it was just going to be very expensive um so so maybe a problem isn't the correct word to use there um it was cost prohibitive okay to um put irrigation um and we had looked at possibly leasing from one of the buildings adjacent um and that didn't get legs so problem was the wrong word just cost prohibitive okay I did a preliminary design for a four-story building there one time couldn't make it work financially yeah it's too small of a lot for that kind of a construction with the restrictions of the adjacent property lines and stuff like that it was it it's almost like it almost needs to be a little bit bigger space well well and I know when we were talking about making in a green space the last formal interest um that we were told about um was when someone thought they were going to be able to purchase um the the building next door MH yeah because then it was a larger lot yeah um it made it much more attractive unfortunately that that sale fell through so then the interest in the smaller lot yeah it's really interesting the the way though a lot of the buildings there the one-story buildings were constructed they they are not conducive to building anything other than another one-story building next to them and it makes it very complicated and I'm going to ask one more I'm sorry but it's the uh the elevated lot that's further down there on 7eventh on the other side of the street uh what's the story behind that does the city own that or is that is privately owned okay I thought it was m and there's has not been any expression of interest on that or is ever that privately owned reasonably lately don't know we don't know what they might want to do with it right yeah okay thank you I'll stop dering the pro the process here that's all right we're just coming up to uh adjournment unless somebody has something else motion to adjourn motion to adjourn from commissioner rothi second no second what the hey second commissioner Munich all in favor say I I we are adjourned at 7:04 okay for