##VIDEO ID:GTDc3uRdf0U## e e e all right we call the meeting to order Sarah can you take a roll call please yes Lloyd grotek here Laura Greenley karp here Dave andren here Ben Hansen here ingred kler here Sue springborn here Sarah zarka here and Cassidy schweer is absent today and we have a we have a quorum so adoption of the agenda I make a motion Dave makes a motion Sue make second all in favor say I I all opposed approval of the minutes I make a motion Sarah makes a motion second Dave makes a second all in favor say I all opposed all right we don't have zoom anymore right no okay anybody from the public David you're up we won't count that in your 10 minutes yeah I'm here to speak about South wood uh Lloyd he put a lot of hours in there Dave andran put a lot of hours in there sue springburn her husband donated the spreader for spreading the wood chips and a lot of other volunteers to City the people around there we're up and age I got arthritis so bad I can't work in there no more last Sunday there there was a Buckthorn pole down there I went down there and I'm not in favor of using poison I'm in favor of pulling the stuff rather than the poison because that's the beginning of St Paul's water supply going through there and before it was Southwood it was um North St Paul Park and we had the name changed I had to go through the DNR the state North St Paul to have it changeed to Southwood Nature Preserve then after that the DNR says you have to have it certified for wildlife there's a little tag on the oak Savannah that says it's been certified as a wildlife sanctuary and uh we were the first city in North St Paul to win the leap award because when we first started that Lloyd help we were uh Japanese not weed Dave was there and that a lot of hours but by cutting it and Hauling it out we were doing it uh without poisons so that's why the city won was the very first city in this in uh Minnesota to win the leap award and right now with not many people volunteering it's hard to get the young people involved I would like to see some money put in there rather than leave it go dormant there's a gentleman Don Maran St Croy he has 31 Acres 3 years he took I gave him some seed for his 31 uh Wildlife um butterfly gardens and all that and all the Buckthorn is gone I was there four years ago five years ago and it was just full of Buckthorn he had it totally removed he hired people to to have it removed I used to hire the people from the workhouse and they worked hard they pulled everything and we would haul it out when I had the tractor but I no longer have it and uh there is Grants out there I left it at the city there's grants out there for invasive plant removal I don't know if it included Buckthorn but there's goats can be used for Buckthorn uh they've Maplewood used them took out the buor my uh youngest daughter she's a wildlife biologist she says it takes three years or four years with goats before the buckl is gone because they have to keep coming back and they keep getting the the smaller plants now the other method is and the Buck's High you cut it 2 feet tall but you have to come back and and you haul that out and you cut all the branches that takes uh two years maybe 3 years in all the branches what you're doing you're starving it for food from the ground but you're not disturbing the soil if there seeds in the ground they won't come back and the other method that the state is using when they pull the buckton out they're planting a tree or some type of shrub that's uh for nature that they're putting in there now Lloyd and Dave worked on that deck that should have been treated a long time ago and that uh right now there's so much High trees and that that's next to there it has to be cut out if that if those are not removed along around that uh Lookout it's start going to start to rot because it's going to hold the moisture in there and all the works can be gone but there is a lot of people that use that now when the city had the survey on the parks they never told nobody didn't come in the letter I happened to find out by accident when I went to pay my electric bill I asked for one of those and I printed off uh 90 some sheets I sat down in Southwood Friday Saturday Sunday two weekends 47 people filled out about Southwood how much they need it they need the wood chip Trails they need it mow back so you don't have the wood ticks on you when you're walking through because if the grass grows up over the chips and you walk through you got wood ticks that can you can connect with now all those people other the there were 17 of them come from Oakdale I says oakdale's got a park I said why don't you use that one they says we got knee replacement or we got hip replacement we come over here and walk because you got wood chips we're not pounding pavement or sidewalks that's why we need to keep it wood ship Trail a lot of people use it especially people that's got knee surgery my wife she had a a hip in injury so it's easy for us to walk in it but it's heck when she has to walk in pavement or sidewalks so you tell me he's done no five minutes 5 minutes minutes but anyway the main thing is I would like to see some money put in Southwood not in the other Parks I don't think there is any money designated for Southwood anymore uh if there is money if you don't want to use goats Ramsey County will have the guys come out cut or whatever however method we want to do it and they're cheaper than uh the miracor when I wasn't in charge of the park no more Kathy took it over she went to miracor because that's she went uh worked with the maror it cost more money they did a rotten job the when they were treating cutting they were way ah here ahead of here and they weren't keeping up with the uh dobbing on the treating because you only have two minutes to dob that cut that sap goes down so fast on there that you're not killing the plant you know stuff like that um the giant Japanese not we just just starting to come back and we found how to treat that and get rid of it by accident one of the master naturalists we're out there helping um a gentleman that he found the method the U of M's been out there the DNR has been out there trying to find out how to get rid of it only this one gentleman did uh Vivian Vic and Vivian who worked there she turned around and she fell backwards on the plant well Japanese nawe is like bamboo when you when you break it it opens up like this and so we just put the poison around the break the plant was gone that that following spring the reason why that is because the knotweed pushes the uh blew it up and at night it brings it back so it's it's pumping back and forth it's taking drawing the poison back so I like to see either somebody else get out there and young people get them involved or money put out there to help clean it up I hate to see all the work that everybody all the people around here that did work go down the tube because we got a nice Nature Preserve uh two years we had the Great Horn owls uh Don bck and I put Nest up we had the Great Horn owls and people were coming all over taking pictures and one guy was sitting there taking pictures and I said where you from he says I'm from Indiana he traveled that far for the birders to come and take pictures because the Great Horn owls they call it branching when the babies get out from the nest and they go back and forth so but anyway I don't know what you can do that's what I have to say Sarah where are we at with the grant piece if we can just summarize it real quick yeah so when you gave me the document I did give that to Riley um who would be the one that would have to write the grants on behalf of the commission um and then I've been doing a ton of research on goats from the direction of our city manager so that is being worked on um just going to take a little bit of time MH that's the update that I have thank you otherwise like I say the people from the workhouse where's Southwood task force on regarding this daral he's in charge I don't think he's doing much of anything Donna ask him she's let us know when you have a meeting or something he refuses to let us know and that so we don't know what's going on we find out by accident and that what's going on I just found out by accident when they had the Buckthorn pull and I was trying to connect with the one that was in charge but she left right away she's part of the task force you know rather than cutting treat they were they're cutting everything but the Buckthorn with the berries the ones with the berries is the very first thing you tackle before you tackled anything else that's the one that seeds everything we got a party that's on the other side of Margaret on for forth they got booked on there I went down I talked to them quite a few times but they don't want to remove it our patio is all stained blue we got a new car that was stained blue because when the birds eat that seed it's a laxes to form and it only spends 3 to 5 minutes and then they dump it now Native American Indians they would take and dry the berries and they would steep it that was their laxative they would drink the water that was what the Native American Indians would use sir can we get a you and me maybe uh get a hold of the task force and see where they're at with this or I talk to Daryl this this afternoon you did okay so um they don't because I wanted to know before our because there's nothing in our budget for the next 10 years for Southwood and with that said um they have no major plans that at this point um they don't meet regularly uh I've asked him to have me come to their next task force meeting um then he also talked a little bit to Public Works today and a lot of the stuff that they're they're not going to set money aside just for Southwood most of their stuff comes out of the general fund uh for maintenance uh like the chipping and stuff like that I talked to them about several of the trees that from the last couple storms that are you know we used to call them Willow makers where one tree is falling against another um they're going to address a lot more of that this um fall when everything dries up so they can get in there with the trucks so um they're both they're aware of it uh the subject with the goats there's we're we got to kind of work through some stuff there uh the city ordinances we can't have goats in the city uh we can't have electric fence um but being this is kind of a special thing um I think it's something we can bring up to city council maybe just making a variance for just that area that with you know maybe for the next five years or something we can allow that to happen but like Sarah said this has got to be researched a little bit more so um the city is pretty much aware of some of the issues uh since now that I'm the Le liaison for Southwood um I've been reaching out to both they all in the city and stuff so I'm trying to stay on top of most of that kind of like what we used to do back in the day Dave um so hopefully um it's going to take some time but we get things turned around um but yeah I agree we need younger volunteers and stuff um but there's certain areas and certain tasks that I think between the task force we we're kind of hoping they would come and say hey we need this so we can tackle it properly you know they have to come up with some kind of a plan bring it to us so we can bring it to city council and do it do it through the proper channels so uh but the public works is aware of some of the issues that are out there and as time warrants they are going to be taking care of some of those the turtle crossing signs I went to the DNR and I got the turtle crossing signs here to begin with and somebody stole one of them so uh the city had some small ones but the agreement at the time with the DNR they have to come down in the fall and go back up in the spring because people get blindsided oh I it it's not something new now with the turtles Crossing rather than tunnel under there there is curbing where the turtles can crawl over that it has to be lowered it's I forget what they call it but it's uh where rain or it's almost like when you enter your driveway y but if they do there's two spaces where the turtles cross just both sides because that would be cheaper than put digging up and putting Turtle crossing signs in because then you have to fence it off like they did on Marin and St Croy that takes two years before you educate the turtles they have to go under the Culver this way would be easier for them there's a a lady that's been out there uh picking up the turtles and move them Donna's been down there picking up the turtles and moving them I've moved this year myself yeah and just just so you know because I drive that almost every day I've only counted three turtles that met their demise yeah everything not these huge numbers that somebody's been reporting um but I personally I've helped three Turtles across uh the one Snapper he didn't like me helping him but I did help he had a different attitude so yeah um but yeah I'm since this all came to light I'm I monitored that a lot more than I did before I think what does help to a certain point is the speed limit sign there yeah people see that and then they kind of slow down so they're they're not going through there as fast as they used to we still have a few there's some people doesn't matter um but as far as the F fatalities of turtles I've only seen three this year yeah this down from last year last year was terrible but I mean just by the curb rather than come up like this it if it was more slanted like they are by my neighborhood you there's two stretches or let's say you go from that one stretch all the way here that's cheaper than digging up the roadway and doing it the other way way that would be something I think would have to be brought up to the county to the county because that's a county road yeah so that's something I guess we can look into we also talked about the turtles at the last meeting and it's kind of out of our hands and up to city council at this point yeah um and they it sounds like they've had multiple conversations about it so we can definitely bring that idea to them but it's definitely something that they have been talking about yeah they need to take down the signs though in the fall um I was I go down there and walk once in a while I told Don I said I'm going down the walk down there walk I come back oh I was kind of disappointed she says what in the world happened I says you went for for a walk I yeah I went for a walk but they had a turtle pass me David anybody else got any comments or questions I do Prett epic this may sound naive but why can't yourself for other citizens just put up the turtle signs and take them down why does the city have to do it they have to be stored in city property that was agreement with the DNR do they have to be that fancy a formal sign I I mean I've seen some pretty just there's a kid one up at Joy Park yeah yeah it's just a is it yeah like a kid drew it the agreement was because mayor sanberg was here we took a picture I got the picture of it and the lady from the DNR that the agreement was that they go up in the spring and they come down in the fall and that's uh city has to maintain that um that was that's all I can tell you on the agreement because I went did a lot of uh chasing around with the DNR to get turtle signs to start with it just seems to me that be so simple so to have a simple sign and go out and put it look into it yeah so and and the the the formal the ones the DNR signs or whatever uh how how much time does it take to are we talking about just simply removing a sign off a post or we we're not talking about removing the post from and if I looked at them there was probably a special wrench for them it just kind of needs to be on our radar on the City's radar maybe um it doesn't sound like it's a big no uh problem for the city if it we just probably need to remember it some is this something Sarah could take back I just sorry I just want to be conscious of time because we have a lot of things to talk about tonight and Southwood is very important but if we can't fix it at this exact moment like being able to we have a lot of topics we don't want to like pass off till the next month for budgets so pass it on to the yep public works okay all right thank you David thank you thanks dve all right I understand uh hga is unable to make it tonight due to conflicts correct yes so we'll jump to code of conduct review yes and I will hand that over to Riley all right thank you Sarah I need your sunglasses so uh this item was requested to be on tonight's agenda it is a uh code of conduct review um I don't know when this was created it looks rather old do you have any idea may maybe doe for a refresher at some point in the near future but um this is something that I uh historically have done with my commissions at my previous City each year beginning of each year uh we just quickly reviewed the code of conduct amongst uh Commissioners staff members and members of the public it's always a good refresher um you know you like to think that you know these things and want to abide by them but uh sometimes you don't and so it's always uh it's always a good idea to just quickly review them um essentially what what the code of conduct is reviewing is uh it it spells out the respect Integrity quality communication esteem regard Behavior Uh that's what this document shows um that we need to all have for one another uh whether you're a staff member to a commissioner commissioner to commissioner staff member to commissioner member of the public any which way you can possibly think of um is we need to be very mindful you know each of you has a very different perspective um when it comes to where you've been where you're going um um various uh life experiences all of them are incredibly valuable that's why you're here that's why you were uh on this body and uh a member of our local government um but we need to remember that we need to be respectful of everybody uh even if you have uh different life experiences for somebody else that doesn't matter you're uh you are all here to for a for one common goal and one common good um so um there's no um uh formal action on this here this evening it's just meant as a as a good refresher um for you um moving forward I think this is something that we should review at the beginning of each and every year especially if we get new Commissioners on you know people come and go um it's always a good idea to review something like this so that's all I have for you thank you all right CIP discussion uh same thing I'll I'll hand this over to Riley start so let me pull this up um so in the in the packet looks like we have the par the park uh 2022 Park Improvement plan um obviously this document was created well before my time before I before I've been here um SAR Sarah how much involvement did you have on this document zero zero great okay excellent so let me find out where my page starts here I think everybody body on this commission whether past or present has been involved in the building of this except I think maybe I don't think that your time before Ben but otherwise and then David was involved earlier yeah earlier yeah yeah yeah yeah way back yep yep yeah we worked on this with Jill officer okay uh from a request of or from Council to put together a plan got it um similar to what they're asking us to do now now yep all right um so beginning on in your packet on page I'm jumping all the way to page 99 um that is um the beginning I'm sorry not 99 uh earlier 90s was that 97 um this gives you an idea of the Park and Recreation funding for uh Capital Improvements um if you do move to page 9 9 it shows um various uh improvements and then by year the the uh funding source and the amount that we have uh attentively placed in each of those years for the for that particular Improvement um and Sarah correct me if I'm wrong this was essentially boiled down from the the 2022 Park Improvement plan into this CIP clarify what document you're looking at right now oh I'm I'm on the um the parks and recommission packet the whole packet the whole packet 99 of one of okay so it's the pages from Parks Mission attach the budget yes thank you yep sorry about that and then to answer your question Riley yes yes and no some of that has been boiled down my understanding is some of it's boiled down from the park Improvement PL some of it is recommendations from previous from the previous community development director and from public works okay and so much of the work that we're doing in 2024 so you you've got the mcnight uh Fields Master planning um that amount and the downtown and the um let's see the West End passive park right those are the three the 60 we paid for HDA covering the three Parks or were there three separate fees uh no that covers the three Parks the phase one phase one pH one yeah but they're separated out 60 32 so is the 32 and the 31 or excuse me the 40 and the 32 cuz this is 2024 which we're in and we paid that but that would be 65 total not not 10 and something total correct because we haven't done anything to this I thought we agreed to I can't remember the exact number but do you know what line item she's talking about uh mcnight fills master plan yeah yeah but Sarah's referencing the downtown park master plan 2024 we budgeted $32,900 and the West End passive $40,000 but you're saying those should be zeroed out because it's covered under the mcnight Field Master planning y yes okay it's a lot of money that's some Buckthorn pull right there which I think I think if you see and Riley correct me if I'm wrong but on page what I don't even know what page this was but the CIP I think it's page 100 um that shows 2025 through 2034 those costs are no longer on there for the downtown park and the so that 60,000 was taken out cuz we spent it and then the other two parks are not on there yeah that that page 99 looks like it's it's obviously beginning in 2024 whereas page 100 begins in 2025 right um and so those are removed from there you are correct Sarah and be were on that item um are we actually going to put that kind of money into mcnight Fields as it was planned for uh parking lot and stuff like that I think this should go towards the new plans that were looking at mhm um rather than that one line item well yeah and as as we heard in our subcommittee meeting here just not too long ago um one of the phases is going to be talking about the uh you know once we have kind of a plan in place the next phase then is to talk about uh the to the total cost those numbers will then be put into the CIP obviously we don't know them yet so um we don't we don't have an accurate number for that but that is the plan correct and the reason we're reviewing this is because Council asked us to put more information into this document about what we as a commission would like to focus on in an Ideal World so that as they are planning and reviewing the budget process they have an idea of how we want to allocate the fund balance that we have that's exactly correct okay so from being at that council meeting it seems like they really just want this what we have here so is the goal tonight to just kind of walk through this and maybe rep prioritize based on what we know today versus 2022 would that be the easiest way to tackle this because I think looking at the numbers is okay but I think we're going to have to readjust all those based on the conversation we have here yep right y I think exactly right and then adding anything okay new that we think I don't know what page this is in the packet but it's 55 in the book Riley do you have a suggestion of how far out you want us to go we have like one to 10 years in here I I usually go 10 years is is typically what I've seen perfect okay and so then the idea was at the last meeting we agreed that each commissioner would have up to 10 minutes acknowledging that that's a big chunk of time so if you don't need all 10 minutes you don't need to fill it and that we would talk about our thoughts of what we would like to see and then after each person has shared that we as a commission would discuss that and suggest what we would like to put onto the document that we are referencing right now the two-page line item for the 10 years does that sound like what we all sign up for that's the first time I've heard that were you at the last meeting I must not have been no I don't think you were oh okay okay well if you need more time you can go last nothing I have nothing tonight so yeah let me start let me start over with ingred um and what your liais on are we talking about um physical property so things like oh I have a wish list for Silver Lake um that might include lifeguards someday but I think that's a different that's a totally different thing to discuss Than Physical you know like uh like that's yeah lifeguards is more programming side talking Capital physical so and just to clarify the guidance was something like not necessarily a $100 fix to a park bench but more like a $155,000 plus type investment L large larger capital Y okay if we're talking about a 10year plan I think the playground equipment which is on the East End of the lake or end of the park um will probably need to be replaced at the end of this it's in great shape I do not want to get in there and um just because it's a certain age remove anything I haven't been inspecting it you know maybe it should be inspected uh by the city just to you know reinforce what I'm saying but um I would say if it's a 10-year plan then my wish list for Silver Lake is to have um that Park structure examined and very likely replaced by year 8 n something like that it is listed on the 5 to 10 year it is listed already okay I don't know if it helps to look at that just as you're referencing P what page are you looking at Sarah it's page 65 I think in the entire packet in the packet 55 if you have the book and 65 I got I got 65 okay um okay there it is uh thank you um but I okay got it um silver there you are okay great um I have some Shoreline uh whe I don't think it's buckthorne I think it's some invasives that have grown up and blocked the view um in a couple different places I think this is a city issue I've brought it up a couple times but I've never followed through and gone and met with the city and said you know pointed to what I so I'll follow up with that but if it looks like we need to involve the county because it is sort of Shoreline related or DNR or who whatever body um I'd like to make sure that um there's money in place to to do that I I don't think I need to add I mean I have no idea what that would be and maybe it's maybe it's a city um you know maybe it's not a park issue um would that be a capital thing Riley or would that be a more maintenance I was thinking that same thing okay at the same time I just want to register another concern and that is the the um um uh same and it's under the same category so it's probably not going to affect our plan um but the shoreline is or the swimming Beach area is being encroached upon um on the west side of it by more invasives um we're losing a good like 10 10t of space and it's just going to continue to to do that so that's just included in what I was mentioning so you know what I I um if the bathroom building is in great shape is it is it currently they just redid it like they just I think years ago okay um then I really we have a new not new Pavilion down there uh new pav you know the sidewalk tennis court is great the the sidewalk is fine great um I do not have any concerns for Silver Lake other than what we see on here I'm good okay thanks ingred anything else no David yeah as you see we don't have anything for Southwood um is Southwood within the next 10 years um we have that metal bridge that goes over the creek that's going to have to be replaced um it's it's starting to show us age um within the next 10 years we'll probably have to do something with the observation deck um that right now is probably good for another five to seven years but I don't think it'll go beyond that that was built uh quite a few years ago um by some members that are on this board now um so and it was all built with volunteers and stuff and it's all treated lumber but um it is starting to show its age is now getting some boards are getting the the weathering where the boards are starting to like crack and open up um other than that I mean it's really sound uh it was built really well probably overbuilt in some cases um it we built it to last for a long time but the weather is starting to get at it and it's something I think we need to address I don't know if we'll be able to get volunteers to redo it again um and then may be something we may have to contract out do we ever get any requests from the Boy Scouts anymore okay other than that just like earlier when we were talking about Southwood I've been in touch with uh Public Works um and I've been I've talked to the task force like as of right now they don't have any major plans or anything maybe some plant plants or something like that and that's what I informed uh the task force or Daryl that we have to go through proper channels and stuff so whenever they have their next meeting I'm pretty sure I'll be there so I'll get an under understanding what the task force is looking at um and how viable it used to be you know it used to be really strong they were we came to every Park commission meeting matter of fact on the task force we had three people in this room that were part of that task force now it's none of us are so um we're not informed as much of the projects that Master naturist are doing but yeah we I just noticed we had nothing no line items for Southwood other than maintenance and maintenance could run quite a bit like I mentioned earlier with the storms we have a lot of trees so we may have to start looking at planting some more trees in those areas so um with your uh the bridge and the observation deck one of the asks that we had so I'll say this for anybody else that's speaking to is kind of a rough estimate or guesstimate of cost or what we would like to see MoneyWise um that way Riley can assess that too and and put in a an appropriate number what would you be thinking for an a guesstimate on cost for that the the bridge that's hard to say would we go we would have to look at what we would want out of there um it's it's all metal now um it's it's good probably for another 5 to 10 years but then after that I'm not going to guarantee anything but as you walk across it it does bow and it does make noise saying hey I've been around a while um so I would say if we were to go with steel I mean the price of steel is going kind of up like everything else um so I wouldn't know I mean if we were going to go forward it would be I could start getting some ideas but do we want to go that do we want to go with maybe uh like a wood structure maybe a little bit more of an arch that kind of thing so there we would have to sit down and discuss maybe with the task force or some of the residents what they would like to see replaced there maybe I think it should be a little bit wider than what we have now um only by a foot or two but if we're going to replace it that would be the time to do it but then would have to check and I just know this from working on the deck check with the Watershed and the DNR to make sure we can put footings where we need to put footings and that kind of stuff uh the observation deck like I said earlier that I think cost us less than 10 grand wasn't it Dave and we had a lot of that the the labor was all done with volunteers we could probably reach out to the public and ask for another one in a few years I don't know how stra the public work works is to do like even uh like an oil treatment on the wood um so I'm sure on today's market I'd have to sit down and estimate but I think we could have it easily rebuilt for right around 20 to 25,000 so would you say the Steel Bridge maybe regardless of what we do would be like 5 to 8,000 oh yeah I would say it's probably we probably say close to 10 so what if we say for both of those roughly estimating $35,000 35 yeah 35 to 40 I'm not you because I don't know exactly I mean if they want me to do more research I could do that no it's just we're just we're just getting numbers they want us to put a number on paper even if it's within five or 10, because there's there's no reason to say hey I need money for wood chips because the city's already doing that part of their their maintenance and stuff um so I talked to them for about 35 minutes um hopefully in the next month or so I'll have more conversations with like Ron and such to find out get the nitty-gritty on that but as far as any kind of improvement the city's already going to replace the benches so that's not a an issue um but the bridge is something that's not on anybody's radar and same with the observation deck so I would say we should try to to be realistic not knowing what all the cost are I would say we should actually set aside 45,000 for at least those two line items thanks Dave soe well I do have something good uh there's an observation that I have made um recently it seems like I don't know the term I want to say dumbing down of our playgrounds um it seems like every time we've put in a new playground it's for little kids and oh I'm sorry um um it just seems like every time we've put in a new playground it's for little kids and I noticed it because my youngest grandchild all of a sudden there wasn't any place for her to play anymore and I thought well maybe that's just the way it is now well we've been spending my husband and I have been spending a lot of time in Bayport recently at Bayport Park holy cow you or I could have fun on those playgrounds it's really truly and is was there a conscious reason to Silver Lake for instance that playground that used to be a much bigger structure for bigger children and now it looks like it's for four-year olds cost is it cost playgrounds is astronomical so what we could get for like in a lot of these places we had $25,000 and what you get for that and the reason Casey lake is as big as it is is because it was built by five volunteers and not so Casey Lake Park was a $500,000 playground that we built for 120 because it took five days of people's full-time labor a lot of people in this room but that's the problem is like that a good one example is kobby Hills that's the one my kids would go to and it's too small but that playground was I think almost 50 Grand and it's not anything and so so a lot of it was just budget constraints um the sad truth it yeah part of me um in in my heart of hearts would like to see kids stay kids longer and if there isn't a place for a 10-year-old to play what's he going to do I mean that you know what I mean I I know Georgia even though she was Tiny my granddaughter it wasn't fun for her anymore so maybe it would be worth it to take a playground as not all of a sudden but I mean as we're doing this consider that and make it a little more difficult for a little older child um if we're change chasing off the older children that's not a good thing in my mind I think the answer to that could be mcnight based on some of the stuff we saw today um but I think what you're saying is just and what we'll have to get clear to city council is that comes with a really large investment and it's not a $40,000 playground it's not a $100,000 playground it's probably closer this number that Silver Lake has down here this is 941 could be looking at a million-dollar number by the time you get you know I I know the city that I live in just did redid one of their main parks and it's awesome it's huge it's uh it's all inclusive um type park it was it was a million bucks yeah rosille well in Bayport they have Anderson Windows so they have everything it's true it's true I think we just have to say as a as a commission like we all agree with that we're going to be when we when and if we get this opportunity with mcnight um say that we know this number is going to be a lot scarier than we've seen But figure out whether it's bonding or something else like how do we do that so that we can protect the same thing well yeah you can't make it all inclusive it's if it's only for four year olds yeah that's not all inclusive so um I have another um issue that has been bothering me um at Northwood that I don't know what it is where the asphalt is I have well it there's a sign that says um roller blades only yeah I've never seen a child in there and I try to drive by there quite frequently and I've never seen anybody in there and maybe it's only in the winter but if it's never used let's rip that sucker out and put something useful in there you're talking about the hockey rinks well is it a hockey rink well was it is technically in the winter and then the summer it's for roller ideally it was meant to be for rollerblade hockey we flooded in the winter yeah yes it does get flooded for sure does it does used it does okay okay I haven't seen anybody that's why but I'm probably not you're inside I know yeah well no I may not be there at the right time that's the thing yeah so and uh that's really all I have okay thanks you I'm going to go jump over to Ben uh I mentioned this last time case I mean Casey Lake there all the time with my kids it's looking really good I would just propose that we consider so there's a map of casc on page 80 in here this ball field is the one that never gets used this one does I think this one does and this one definitely does it's used for practices all the time the one in the middle the one in the very middle um it's got the creek there behind it and it's overgrown it's just never used so I would love for us to think about something that could be done there in the medium term um to make that space whe whether we just do nothing with it and but but let you know wild um let plants grow there and build out the the the Creek area which already has some uh vegetation around it or if we actually dedicate it for some other purpose I that on my list so if you had an idea like how much money would you want to throw at I don't I mean to take it out and fill it in with something we're probably looking at 50 50 Grand at least and then if you want to do something different and there's maybe another 50 so so like yeah like $100,000 of re purposing re yeah repurposing that area obvious with like Community input and all of that process but finding something useful for that area because just to the south of it as well you can almost just make it out on this map there's a there's a tiny little bridge that crosses um the creek there and uh so it's a nice little area to walk through but I I don't think a lot of people walk through it because you have to cut through a lot of grass and stuff like that so it could be made into a connected up to some kind of trail system if if we wanted um would that be a place that we could do like a nature play area if it's by the water already it's not usually water in there what about dog park what we were talking earlier about what dog park how far is it off of it's not that close to a parking lot though you got people with dogs I mean people walk but you're want to be closer right here my what I had actually written down for Casey Lake there was to actually convert that into a soccer field oh we have zero soccer field soccer is the largest growing sport we know those anyone who's in that subcommittee that seems like a really easy takeaway both those baseball fields honestly convert it into soccer or the other thing I had and we heard this at the feedback session I don't want to take your time B though so I'll talk about it on my term okay Ben anything else um no just people the way that I see that that whole area getting used most frequently minus the ball field that I've identified which again doesn't get used as the grass areas use people set up uh volleyball nets so volleyball could be another option they just happily play on the grass I don't know if they would want sand or not um but that gets used very frequently in this in this warm months for volleyball I have to say the volleyball courts at Silver Lake get used all the time it just seems like well not all the time but frequently at Silver Lake those are sand yeah yeah there's one one sand Court there do they ever use the one at Tower I don't know who's got Tower Park me I I've never seen anybody using it but let me let me get back the Bendle I'll go back to you yeah cuz he's that's that's all I got good right go ahead s um I yeah I've never seen them used but again it might not be the right time that I'm looking okay while we're on the note of Casey Lake Park and since you're there um on this page of the prioritization table it does talk about hockey rank improvements um it also has um money allocated to the east side of the park and then for midterm it's got to be determined 2 and5 plus million dollar um I don't know what that came from so if we want to just touch on that briefly how we feel about those numbers as well um so I can jump in on cuz I was the former Casey Lake person um the east side park original in 2022 we were talking about this was actually we're proposing a fitness area for that uh to be like a multi-purpose Fitness area I think since the dynamic has changed but I think what would still make sense in that area and would be more than the allotment here would be um like a ninja course or something where there used to be what we call the Army Park either down there or on the east side of the park um that was part of it the 2.5 million I think some of that was including any building improvements knowing that 10 years from now the building would be almost 20 years old um so I think that's what part of I don't know that two and a half million seems really high um I think that number is way too high my guess would be what Ben mentioned plus any building improvements I think we need to consider um like that means bathrooms or any things that's going to happen over there um and then we did hear this at the feedback session at the autum Art Festival was the people wanting that kind of play outdoor kind of I I keep calling it Ninja but you know what I mean it's like more uh I don't have good words more fun play that isn't necessarily a playground but it's like bars and monkey bars yeah like kind of active play um s s that would be for older older kids yep and Casey Lake had the really old version of that and people got really sad when it was taken down um but that my my guesstimate what I had put by Casey Lake was about 200 Grand between like soccer fields and potentially ninja play um if you leave the grass there and don't put in mulch or anything like that um but I think my number is probably low I think 2 and a half million is high I think as a group we have to decide where do we want the hockey in the future and Casey lake has probably the nicest one um and there's real bathrooms there but uh I know we've avoided that project for a long time just because our hockey numbers have been down but people still use that but I think that becomes a conversation with Northwood if Northwood and Casey Lake are our hockey ranks we probably need to really because this was something Keith said we needed to do and that's now I'm aging myself like 10 years yeah so that Casey Lake rink Improvement probably needs to happen sooner than later if we decide we want to keep hockey Larry's been T Larry talked about that many times in the past to about the hockey rinks yeah it's looking old I didn't mention it it it was already on here a lot but yeah the boards are old I'm with you that if we spend the money on fixing up that hockey ring then we need to add an ADA accessible pathway between that bridge probably and that path because that gets really Mucky in the winter when they I it and the trucks getting back there to like they we almost need to make almost a service road slash and then when you're talking about concrete now we're probably up to 500 Grand so I would say 500 Grand to Casey Lake in the 10year span but maybe in the shorter term you up to you guys on the hockey I don't have any opinions on hockey but if we're going to have it let's make it usable I wouldn't go any lower than five 00 Grand because we've talked about a lot of things just now at Casey so I wouldn't go any lower than that Sarah I don't know yeah so we're talking about 10 years so that's a lot anything else sorry I didn't know was that my time to talk oh I have I have a list sorry I was here for this um so first mcnight Fields I think that we don't know what that's going to cost but I think to me that with the downtown Parks is going to be I think where the money needs to go to besides immediate things um the other Park I have is the Environmental um what what do we call that environmental learning learning center by the bus garage by the bus garage yep um we've talked a little bit about this but this is actually where I'd like to see the nature play um there's a really nice kind of area if we clear it just a little bit off the Gateway Trail that could be something I think Beyond just maybe a picnic table which could be really nice cuz I ride that trail pretty far and there's no place to sit lunch between the community center and then you're basically into mamei so it'd be really nice just as simple as like a clear up an area a little bit keep it nature I don't want to like concrete this out but just make something that's visible especially since they've cleared the road um I'd say this is probably $60,000 $65,000 maybe um I don't want to pave the trail or anything but maybe just make a seating area a picnic table and then maybe some like little play that like kids who are biking like a bike rack something that like a family can stop and use that if they're on the Gateway um and then I had Casey Lake which we already talked about and then my last I this isn't my Park but I'm going to talk about anyways is Northwood I had the same question about the rink conversion do we need it would we convert it hga just showed us a really cool thing where they've taken like old tennis courts and kind of converted them into little BMX slash not really a skate park they called it something different but it was really looked fairly simple and easy to do and my curiosity is if we're not going to use that could we do something with that space and make it kind of like a bike something and then last thing at a um Northwood we've talked about this for so long I is the Ada accessibility into that playground does not exist and it's expensive and but I think we need to do it and I can't remember what the cost was it might be like $150,000 to get more of a walking path or um some way there's no way for you in a wheelchair to get to that playground at all so um or a stroller without going up a hill so I think that needs to be on the short list of the short priorities um I know it's not my Park but it was just on my mind so um I think Sarah we talked about when we talked about that Park we talked about actually moving the playground I think because it's there's you have to change the whole Contour of the land yeah and I don't know that you can push a wheelchair up there easily to get to that playground anyway especially if it's a larger kid but if you move that playground down to where that that unused hockey rink is it would make a lot more sense well and we've had a lot of conversation about um the building I know there was a lot of money dedicated to Northwood it but potentially fixing that shelter building I kind of feel like when we talked about that was a million doll project and I think if we're talking about a million dollars I think that could be better spent somewhere else but I do think Northwood needs a chunk of money and I don't know maybe that's just to like x amount of dollars to Northwood for future improvements but I think it needs to be redesigned or something like you said there's just it's not it's not accessible it's awkward could be better used because a lot of people would use it although there are always children in that playground yep no I that playground's fairly new I we' put it on since I've been here so but it also is a very small kid playground yes yes and I Northwood is my Park I have grand hopes and dreams for it but I don't want to take up your time no that's all I got I'm short I talk fast but I'm short okay so I went to shore View's new playground that's across from their Community Center and they did this really amazing thing where they essentially created five different parks within one park and each pocket within the park was a different place structure geared towards uh one was older kids and like super tall climbing one was more of like a tucked away like nature small contained area there was a skate park where kids were on their scooters and um skateboards there was a gathering area in the middle of the whole thing and then there was a Ninja Warrior course uh and all of those things were like you could bring any age including adults to this playground and somebody everybody would have something to do um and so I feel like Northwood is a really unique opportunity because there is some stuff there but there also isn't a lot of stuff there and it is in awkward shape but that awkward shape would lend itself really well to kind of like this Meandering tiered level Park um from start to finish with kind of like a gathering space in the middle um before Justice Allen page was created it used to be Maplewood Middle School and when school got out all a ton of middle schoolers would go and spend time in Northwood and there wasn't really anything for them to do and sometimes there was graffiti but really just like a space for them to gather and so I and it's an elementary school now but I also think there's like this um tradition of kids spending time there uh in the middle of the day so like making it a place where you can sit in a park and talk with your friends but you can also um you know play on this playground or do this fun Ninja Warrior course uh setup and so I I know it's not set up to be a destination Park like we don't have the parking for it we like that isn't going to make sense but I do think that we can make it like a destination park within uh like North St Paul so like maybe we aren't we are we don't have people traveling a half an hour to this park but we have people actively choosing to go to Northwood instead of just like ending up there because it's the closest park um so I would want to spend lot of money there I I it's probably late close to I don't know 500k to 750k to like really look at it and figure out a way to creatively use it and make it make sense for like all of the different people were serving and I feel like it's kind of in an area where we don't have a big Gathering space we don't have like a a more substantial spot so making it a spot and can I just add on and we've talked about how there's so much development around that Park and no parks are really serving all the new people that are moving into those newer condos and things right along there so that's a great idea so in the 2022 plan it looked like from in five to 10 years Northwood had $1.43 million is that too much too little do we want to just keep that similar my I would be inclined to keep it if I'm thinking about the process that we're going through with hga um and just the investment of the 60k to have them help us do more planning I can see Northwood being a part of a second phase of planning um and so maybe we just budget that planning money to fall under the Northwood line and then see what we can get with the rest anything else Laura nope thank you I'm going make it short sweet David uh mcnight that's pretty much on the uh agenda so we'll just let that one keep rolling um Southwood David could you and I got the same two parks you got the same two exactly could you ditto ditto ditto could you could we get in a loop together and then we'll I'd like to go to those meetings too we I used to go to those too and it kind of comes and goes as you know once he invites me I'll let you know okay thank you that's all I got who has Polar Park it might be me okay po sorry I do not have grand plans for uh we need to replace the playground it does yeah in the short term on here that's the last one I think that we have't addressed it says playgrounds and trails $173,000 yeah that still feeling oldest one we have in the city but it was in good condition when we built this so it was actually still in okay shape but again it's not that grand of a playground the swing set was new it came from Casey Lake um so there's like it's got a lot of hodge podge of newness but the place Center itself is older it seems like a lot of money but I think when we had discussed this there was talks of putting actual sidewalks in there to connect from um I I think we have done that since there's side in there now that should be done so I don't think you need 173 but I'd say if you want a decent playg ground I'd put at least with edging 990,000 aside for that yeah we do need to probably do that in the short term knowing it's again it's I think it's a 19 it's got a nine in that play structure it's one of our older ones3 94 it's old what are our older ones cuz I went into we went in there um uh couple years ago and walked through some of these parks and that was one that we were concerned about the age in polar Park's one of those that is kind of almost like landlocked you don't have a lot of areas to get to you got the one path weird one yeah yeah he really got weird entr kind fun though when you find it my kids always thought that was really exciting like where' this come from and I have Colby Hills which I didn't talk talk about but I will say that after living there for 2 years around that area I feel like I'm in a playground desert like I my kids and I don't go to parks that much anymore because we can't walk to any and kby Hills is close but like Sue said like it's such a tiny structure the problem is it's got such a big building there just nice and there's a little patch of grass but I don't really know what we would do with it like as a person I feel remiss like there's not something there but I also don't know what we would do with it so I didn't couldn't we do something with that that grass lot yeah I mean there could be uh I don't know the names of these games that they play gag GaGa ball those kinds some simple that wouldn't cost a bucket of money say like simple Park and like simple enhancement of that lot maybe give it maybe $5,000 you could do a lot with $50,000 I would think I don't even think we' need that much probably not great okay I mean it seems kind of shameful not to have some my kids would love a Gaga pit yeah you should just put one of those in every Park actually they're probably like I think they're like $400 but David Sarah being that you're over there by Kobe are they still flooding that vacant lot for skating they didn't last year they didn't they're not okay cuz that's that was a big thing that empty lot was always set up for ice skating not hockey but regular figure skating or whatever recreational skating so all right well Riley do you we you think you need you have any other questions or think I'm good okay that's all we got to do with tou touching on that that's all you need from us today I think so yeah and then we'll we'll work together on that well done everybody thank you very much thank you Riley all right park hours discussion and recommendation so that was recommended by Cassidy she's obviously not here so if we want to talk about it while she's here that would be my recommendation since she will be bringing it back to council um so I would that' be my thought would be next meeting we can come back and have a deeper discussion on what we want to do with the park hours okay sounds good uh Park policy updates um again this is we can talk about it today if you'd want to if you have questions or anything um but staff are recommending some updates to the park policy um again just for time I would recommend table that till next time the information in the packet though does include all the proposed changes so I would ask that we you all review it for next meeting if there's questions or concerns bring them back then um but we'd like to see that implemented before December 1st if possible so okay but if you want to talk about it today too we can but I would recommend take anybody want to talk about it I make a recommendation we take until table next me meeting everybody okay with that yeah all right Public Works updates uh not much there uh just they completed a total Park inventory to include like what we have for benches picnic tables signs grills um anything else that stands out there uh as well as their condition so we now have that um we're working to get that digitalized so we can have that um for future reference but they did go through and U make notes of that um I will say the other thing that's not on here that I want to talk about is the open houses with hga I did email you all that information but I also have uh little Flyers that if you don't mind handing out to people that you know um that can come to these open houses and give their feedback on our Park planning that would be wonderful that's all I got now do we have to monitor how many of us come to these the open houses yes I do need to know if you're going to make it and which days you're going to make it okay for Quorum issues Quorum issues and then also I believe Riley and I are not available both those nights so we do need your representation we need a quorum both nights we talk in the when the the two in October yes okay I can be at the 9th and if we if we do hit a quorum I can I'll email out let you know I can do the nth the same it's a repeat meeting yep so just if we can just choose one to be at that would be awful is somebody going to be there the open doors or or do we want us to do that I'm going to be there on the one of them what is that I know I have my notes downstairs because some of you have told pass the out yeah I'm there on October 9th one more time October 9th 5 to 7 you guys I'll be absent for both Sarah okay 6 yeah on on the 9th it's from 5: to 7: at that one in which one are you doing the nth okay there's two for the nth already yes yeah I'm planning I'm I don't know what my wife's schedule for her surgeries and stuff are but I'm planning on being on both so that's three for the ninth and then sue you had told me the 10th yes okay so we got we got enough for the we can't have four we can only have three right yes yes okay so we got three pass them out okay I oh you can't do it either okay neighbors but and Sue will be there on the 10th yes yes okay so we got two so Ben if you can come the 10th would be great if not I think we have that part covered we're going to have council members there as well so yeah perfect so we got we got enough for each of them yep and I'm working with them on opening doors setting up tables all that stuff so we'll get that taken care of as well Sarah polite me politely reminded me the other day I called her short notice and said hey I'd like to come to this she goes we can't we got three already we can't have four yes can't have four Forum yeah I was going to something else but I don't need to say it okay all right that's all I got all right uh Riley you got anything else good all right I'm going start with ingred anything reports updates anything else nope David we covered it already Okay Sue well I just have to say that I thought I had Northwood Park well we can work together okay okay you can work together unless you hate my plan and then you can't work no I I don't like the park very much Laura has a dream like my snowman it is now my Splash Pad downtown I'm good Laura uh good Sarah good Ben all good motion to adjourn I make a motion to a Jour David makes a motion second here you can you want me to know mhm oh okay hold on is it on the record or off the Record is this on the record or off okay go ahead hold on you okay that we're gonna yep okay I withdraw my motion thank you um um I will be done with the commission at the end of the year accepted why not I don't I honestly can't just can't do it anymore me the old guy here yes it's been a pleasure Sue thank you that's so sad pleasure for me too but I can't I just can't do it anymore you're allowed to leave if you find us a good replacement just like you well would like to invite you back maybe in January like we did with the other members that left for a little I actually thought if you wanted to have a Christmas party this year we could do it at my house so moved stand by stand by I second that hold on hold on would rather wait and do it in January cuzz sometimes that easy is easier after the holidays let's talk after the meeting okay all right David I make a motion to adjourn anybody second second Sarah seconds all in favor say I I I'll oppos