##VIDEO ID:wuHLKzKpfeg## so this is the opening of the regularly scheduled North Conservation Commission uh meeting and it is Monday August 12th 2024 at 6:30 p.m. and as we are obligated um to read um the Preamble uh because of this being a remote meeting pursuing to Governor hu's March 29th 2023 bill extending several Co era policies and programs by allowing virtual meetings to continue from March 31st 2023 to March 31st 2025 this meeting of the norn Conservation Commission will be conducted bya remote participation to the greatest extent possible specific information and the general guidelines for remote participation by members of the public and slor parties's right and or requirement to attend this meeting can be found at the end of this agenda members of the public attending this public hearing meeting virtually will be allowed to make comments if they wish to do so during the portion of the hearing designated for public comment by raising their hand virtually or by pressing star n if participating by phone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means in the event that we are unable to do so comma despite best efforts we will post on the nton cable website an audio or video reporting so transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting um our members uh participating tonight are myself julan CER chair Lisa Barosa Vice chair pxton hell Mark Fernandez Joseph caral and it appears that we we don't have uh Tom bestest and Dan Pearson tonight um we also have our director John Thomas and our assistant Megan pero um so our first item on the agenda uh of new public hearings is U does not have a file number yet uh it is 266 conton Avenue a notice of intent concerning uh work proposed to raise an existing dwelling and U build a new single family house with an Associated subject system and Lawn within 100 feet of a wetland resource and do we have a representative of the applicant yes good evening Craig sanowski of Rim engineering um You probably have sharing capabilities and if you can plan just wanted to say that I did receive the uh file number last week through the email okay 250- 11160 I'll share the plan everybody see that not quite yet but yes okay you may have to enlarge it just a little bit uh 266 to Avenue existing houses built in 1940 it's a lot that received the variance for the lot Frontage and it goes back 100 1,64 ft uh away from toan Avenue and the vast majority of the property is Wetlands so we have a uh you see is the plan enlarged enough now uh yeah and just looking at the Frontage that is I can't tell if it's it's the the sum 51.8 one and uh I mean is it about 100 feet or is it about 50 it must be what are we talking about sorry the frontage here the the actual it's 10 108 feet roughly whereas 150 but that went through the zoning board of appeals uh back several years ago um has been approved as a buildable lot the building inspector has reviewed it and based on the variance the building the the lot is a buildable lot so we have a bordering vegetated Wetlands across the street southerly south of tot Avenue and then the existing house which is I left light here but there's a garage here with a driveway and the original House sits about here and then bordering vegetated Wetlands to the the easterly side of the sites like I said from here back about 800 ft and then on the neighboring property to the South we uh located what is a potential veral pool uh it actually we sort of mapped it out as it goes back towards the property behind it's around 12,000 square feet in area couldn't actually do topography in the center to see how much it holds has uh when we tried to put the measurement rod in it sunked out about 3 feet without any pressure on it so it's a so what we have is a proposed new house sitting here it's 48 by 20 by 36 with a two two-car garage in the front which it shows up over here a driveway coming out and a new septic system now the town doesn't have any evidence or any plans of the original septic but we found what might be aess pool back here it's sort of on the property line that could have been a well whatever it is will be abandoned um so we had found uh 2minute material nice gravel and we did not hit any groundwater down in our tesol we went down 10 ft no water found no modeling no evidence of water so for the roof water we're proposing to dry Wells here and here that will handle all the roof water there are six feet diameter with stone around and about 4T deep typical septic system with, 1500 gallon 1500 gallon two chamber septic tank going to uh three trenches in the back we have the uh we've already staked out the set of in trols and these trees were designated to be removed and these trees here which are not on our property the my client was going to talk to the neighbor to see if he would allow these to be taken down as they are very large pine trees I don't know where that actually sits at this moment but I do know that uh he had already started to do the clearing think John had done a site walk before he went on vacation and reviewed our Wetlands flags and was all right with what we had previously shown this was not flagged but he had noted it in his uh on his field notes and asked us to flag it uh 100 foot buffer comes through the corner of this house right here but where the dryw will be 100 feet from this Wetlands goes through the septic area would be 73 feet with our septic system where uh State regulation requires 50 ft minimum and then the 100 foot buffer from the rear encompasses the front of the house so the majority of the lot is under the 100t buffer zone um now I don't know my client mentioned that he was given permission to begin demolishing now I don't really know where that sit at this time I just found out today and I wasn't able to get out there so I'm not sure exactly what uh status that has oh open it up to anything questions all right just uh for bookkeeping uh Let It Be noted that Dan Pearson has joined the meeting and um so John you have any comments about about this yeah this is an updated plan that I that we received that I haven't seen yet so just looking at it um some administrative things to take into consideration Craig is that you need the signature of Mr gity for this application if you're going to include those trees in that limit of work um because it's his property and you have to add the Assessor's parcel uh for this permit so um you have two options you can either you know wait to wait to close this um and then basically go through the parameters and figure out what your limit of work is otherwise you're going to have to somehow you're not going to be able to change your limit work once we once we issue an order so what I'm getting at is it's probably in your best interest for Mr Mr is it Mr George to figure out um you know can he actually remove those trees and and gain access and entry to the uh his neighbor's property to do that work if not then I would suggest keeping to your own property and just doing the work that you can do at this time then potentially come back for another filing for the adjacent property there's two ways that you can do this um I think it's probably in your best interest is just stick with what you can do and what you know um that way for instance it expedites this process um and yes I did before I did leave on vacation I did tell the uh land owner of the property that the um Burman infested residents could be demolished because the Board of Health wanted it uh they wanted it was a basically an emergency removal because it was infested with rats um so they wanted it gone as soon as possible so I said that as long as the erosion controls are in and there's minimal grading then for instance you know you guys could do the demo okay yeah we would it would make sense to remove the possibility of those trees coming down and wait for the future when the house is built yeah I think that's probably the best best thing to kind of make this the easy transition for yourself and your client all right any any questions from commission members so I just have a question about you mentioned you mentioned the trees are going to be removed just because of their size what is that can you put that into context you mean they're relatively large in proximity to the house or building and that's why you need to take them down correct you talking on the neighbor's property yes that would be the reasoning for it yes okay but it could also trimmed anything on our property could simply be trims okay um the other administrative thing that you want to look at uh if you do include them and you have his signature you might have to see if your butter notification um was correct if you're now going to include this as Locus so that's all CH thank you uh any any further questions from commission members uh if not any questions from any member of the audience and uh you can either go into the um um reactions button and uh I think there's a hand rais there or just take your mic off mute and um and just speak up so if there are no questions um then um I mean John everything is in order with the exception of the uh defining the limit of work so but and and that it seems will require a a continuation um hello uh yes so it looks like the computer labeled Tom George you're you're speaking if you want to ask your question go ahead yes I'm the owner of the property um and we I've talked to the uh the owners with the other Tall Pine trees and we're not going to remove those so those will not be in this order condition or notice of intent okay so you're you're referring to the Three Trees labeled on the adjoining property I'm assuming that's correct um REM those excuse me I can remove those trees from the plan and resubmit tomorrow so we'd ask that you could close the hearing with that [Music] condition uh so John are you okay with um with the closure I guess it's 14 days between now and the next meeting on uh August uh 26 I am okay with it if the rest of the commission is okay with it all right um um just to clarify so they filed just for the lot not the abing lot so that part's C clean we just need an updated plan right that's correct they're just going to Nix the work that's being done on Donald E property okay I'm okay with that then that way around it would be a little Messier to fix the file but all right well um it looks like then if there are no further questions or or comments we're ready for a um a motion to close Julian um I just wanted to mention that one of the abuts uh sent in a letter that I added to the Google Drive and I just want to be sure that um it was seen yeah to make sure and it I I reviewed that letter and and now uh I mean the request was that the trees not be taken down and so the it looks like the neighbor the trees on neighboring lot uh will not be taken down but the the owner of the property has the option to remove those trees and uh and I'm assuming that's part of the application is that correct John that is correct um the work that is at the proposed house number 266 all those trees that are highlighted uh those are the ones being requested for removal well in this case it just looks like two yeah the 40 the 40 and White Pine and the 20 I think it's 8 or 26 inch white pine yeah so is the but referencing the plans on the abing lot or those the locus on 266 can we tell what the wording is uh it was actually quite vague um oh it it didn't address the specific trees it just it just uh me mentioned that the preference is I mean the wording was that the trees have probably been there 100 Years and may well be there another hundred so there was no specification of exactly which trees so for the record we should probably note that person's name and address yeah I don't have Google Drive up at the moment I don't know if that's something I've got it up it's it was the execu tricks of the estate of Donald gar at 270 to now so likely the three that H from the plan there's a hint yep okay so it was the abing lot most likely okay okay all right uh so if there no further questions we can consider a motion to close of f the hearing for file number 250- 1160 so move second uh motion by Lisa seconded by Dan roll call vote uh beginning with Paxton and Mark hi hi Lisa and Joe hi hi and Dan it looks like a yes there uh and I'll throw in a yes the motion carries to the public hearing is closed so we'll be able to act on a uh order of conditions next next time thank Craig um so our next hearing uh doesn't have a file number displayed on on the my agenda copy but it relates to 171 West Main Street um and anrad um do we have a representative of the that's applicant yes we do Mr chair Bri done with MBL inment and per um so we do have a DP file number okay that's um 250-1 16161 two 250 d161 I'm assum assuming you can share screens now and um let me just say this is a huge collection of parcels uh what is the total acreage here roughly total acreage is I make sure I'm saying it right 1395 Acres uh and the the amount that is on um oh it looks like at least on my screen Mr gun has disappeared I guess what have to wait for him to reconnect I guess his computer did not did not want to share screens so with all of us so you you transiently disappeared I don't know if you had difficulty with the yeah I don't know what happened so know that was your end on my end so so I'm going to share the screen Mr chairman can everybody see this now I'm quite yeah okay let me know when you can see it uh it's not coming yet but um a huge amount of the these Parcels it's that's Wetland so I'm assuming we're going to be well you know once the plan appears you can all right we we have a plan that's very small so okay so I can well it's I'm trying to show you the entire 139 and a half acres right now so the entire 139 acres is in outlined in the purple line if you look at the plans that are on on on on the screen the purple with the black line underneath it is the propy line the green line is the uh Wetlands border or the the limit of the bordering vegetated Wetlands then we have the red L red highlighted area which is the 25 ft buffer and then the yellow is the 100 foot buffer and then we have in blue or Azure uh the FEMA floods uh flood Zone area so you as you can see the differences in in the colors of the uh the Wetland area here the buffer zone and yellow the 25 ft buffer zone here the green line is the wetlands that we've located Field located and the blue line here is the limit of the flood plane so this is an overall site overall index plan if you want to call it to show how we cut out the sheets and then we individually went to and cut out each sheet at a at a uh smaller scale so that you could see those plans more clearly and you can see the Wetland Flags here for the isolated vegetated wetlands in this area here we've got the area of the intermittent stream and the flow arrows of that stream with the buffer zones um we've got West Main Street layout here a messenger uh which is uh a private way and then uh you know again the wetlands that we've uh located and has been delineated on the Fe on the ground and you can see the FEMA flood zone in the blue on this [Music] plan and and then we we continually cut out the sheets at that scale you can see they all they all go together same information on this on this plan as we go further back into the property and then over on the uh if you want to call it the Northwest side of the the property West Main Street is way down here now and you can see the FEMA flood plane in blue the the wetlands in this area the green line is the Wetland line the red is that 25 foot buffer zone and the yellow the 100 foot buffer zone and then going we're going east now through the property same stuff again further east again and then you can see Robin Circle down here and uh you know further east Eastward of the property here we got probably one more one more sheet to show um for the top part of the site at the very Northerly section before it opens up a little bit more and then this is the Northerly section of the property in the purple line you can see the uh utility easement that goes through the property so we tried tried to uh detail this you know large parel of land as as best as we could in multiple sheets and the commission may remember we were in front of you for a single family home in this area and this watland line and resource area and this Wetland line here was approved by the commission with this uh D file number so we included it here because it was really like on the edge of the property so we wanted to make sure that we included that information um uh to you Mr chairman um is my understanding that your agent wants to walk the site and then possibly tell us uh where where he would like to have some transacts done if if required and if that's the case we can have our botus go out there um and do those transects if it's really needed uh if if not um we'd be looking for you know John to to take a walk onto the property and take a look at the what L line that we've shown on here on the plans and then eventually have you issue an o Mr chairman um I I just and this is really not uh I mean this will be the chairman by John in the field but if you if you go up front near U near West M Street there was a an area I think in yeah yeah so you have you have an area that has has a buffer in and this this outline Green in front does not have a buffer and the the implication is there's no hydrologic connection with either of those two Wetlands of that yeah because the these are isolated this what we call isolated Federal you know vegetated Wetlands so they're not they're not connected to anything else so that's why they don't have any buffer zones Mr chairman isolated do not have buffer zones but but being certain there really is not a hydrologic connection between either of those two Wetland based on the well report and our Bist there is no hydraulic connection between those three systems that you see there to Elijah systems yeah and um so John you're going to have a lot of walking yeah I will um but it's only going to be the the areas that are flagged there are a lot of wetlands that they're not seeking confirmation of so we will only be uh confirming the ones that are flagged for this whole plan Set uh Additionally you know I would also Brian take a look at the mapped um potential vernal pools and certified vernal pools and make sure that those are shown um in the areas where there where natural heritage Maps those yeah I think I think we did we uh did that um there are some potential ones but they're offsite of us let me get to that map hold on if I may I want to stop sharing and share share the an red application okay Mr chairman yeah okay can everybody uh see this right [Music] now let me know when you're ready yeah there we see okay so this is the what I call the book report of the uh anrat application which is and contains an awful lot of information as you can see the list of figures we've got a site description resource areas we've got all of the mapping that's required the aerial mapping toppal map flood insurance natural heritage critical areas and soils we've got our Wetland report and our Affidavit of service copies of the checks and all of the certified mailing uh receipts and this is the application that we have to fill out and hopefully everybody's had a chance to see these documents correct I've seen it okay and they were included in the Google Drive although I'll be honest and I'm going to say that that being sure these are filled out correctly as in Megan and John's wheelous yeah I I would uh I would totally agree but I also would like to say Mr chairman you've seen our stuff before you've seen me in front of this commission many times um I'm sure that you have uh some trust in the information that we send to this commission to be reviewed and approved at this time well now you're bringing up a a major philosoph question in response I'm going to say no I don't trust anybody but but I I I admire quality work I appreciate that thank you very much Mr chairman so aerial mapping so this is uh as you can see this is I know if it's uh I want to zoom out a little bit so you can oops going to switch end now so I think the original question had to do with the potential boof so yeah we're going to get we're getting we're getting there so this you can see the vast number of Apostles that the that Valentine tool owns now in red all of those Apostles in red they own and so Brian I don't I don't mean to like I guess let you know something but three of the parcels that you are looking are seeking confirmation of have potential vernal pools on them map by natural heritage okay well let's look at the map that I well this is what we pulled off of of uh the natural heritage data right here so there's one here where my hand is and there's one here okay well I would go on mass mapper and get the almost updated data because I'm looking at it right now and potential vernal pools you've got one on let's see what parcel is this you got one on parcel 2234 you've got one on parcel 162 and it looks like you've got another one on parcel 2242 so I would just go back and do your research and look because you know I'm GNA want to go take a look at those areas too okay so well you know normally we have oh I I'm I'm looking at Mass mappa right now too and I and I see two dots and the two dots that I just talked about on mass mapper are one is in the West Main Street Conservation Area and one is in the uh Leo Yi Conservation Area so let me see that's that's certified and being the conservation director I know how to do my due diligence so I'm just letting you know that I see it on mass mapper right now so I'm telling you that you should probably take a look at it and just make sure that the information that you have is updated so there's some yeah so there's a couple of potential uh when one of the Wetland systems up at the the very North and uh you know may one in near the near that riverfront on zero um right 17 those are potential are we don't show the potential ones on the map you should be showing the potential ones because those are important too okay so we'll we'll make sure that there the map is updated with the potential ones while we're on the subject of veral pool it's not just what you're only seeing on mass GIS what somebody's documented to date it the burden of proof is on the person that did the Wetland delineation to determine whether there are other there could be there could be 10 more vernal pools out there it's not just whatever massgis says that's number one uh number two when was this done was it done during the Vernal pool season when was the delineation performed now let me just double check the date of the the plant the uh the letter from the Bist is that the tail end of Vernal pool season yeah so was you know ear uh late to late in October and November yeah no yeah it was nowhere near the Vernal pool season it was Winter towards the winter fall yeah so December I'm sorry December and then we've got some some of it was delineated in the in December and some in in February so that's not during the Vernal pool season so I I would ask I understand that I I know that the Bist we asked the Bist about the vernal pools uh out there she did not uh say that she observed any veral pools but I can I can double check with her and if we need to get a statement with her from her we can do that not a [Music] problem well let me let me say say uh in general with delineations we as a commission depend on the professionalism of our director uh and this is a huge area so it's going to take a little while for you and John and your Bess to Hash all the details out I think probably most areas there will be no significant disputer discussion but I mean just these areas of potential Ral pools uh it's going to take a little little while to hash out offline so um uh my sense is um you know the focus is on the the Flagg area so we'll we'll hear about that but I don't know if there's any point in going over any more further details without some agreement no I just we just need to figure out when John is going to do a sidewalk and right right the areas he needs transacts and um what we can do is I can send the bnst out to these areas the potential vernal pools uh and see um you know at this stage of the the season if there are uh remnants of vernal pools or anything that um could possibly be a veral pool double check that and and let you and John uh let the commission know as well as John so this is where it gets kind of tricky Brian is is we've had this happen before with the vernal pools and the confirmation of them and in the act it basically states that you know the certification of any vernal pools needs to happen before any filing of a notice of intent application so just keep that in mind so if you can't do it now that's where you kind of are handicapped for any potential development where you should treat everything that is a potential Vernal pool as if it was certifiable and that's what I try to you know suggest to people is that if you don't know now it's probably best to be safe rather than sorry um if it does look like it's going to exhibit those sort of characteristics moving forward so I just want to throw that out there okay duly noted so um with the map presented uh the work in the field needs to be done so any further questions or comments um because it sounds like this is going to be a continuation yeah Mr chairman we just need to know when John is going to go out there and if he needs the botus to be with him uh during those days uh if not uh we just need to know what days he's going out there so I can let my client know that uh he will be work walking the property and then um whatever areas of the Wetland system that John needs a transact on I just need a copy of that plan so we can send the bot in the out to do that transect uh data and put it together so we can get in front of the commission why don't I do this why don't I take a a quick walk through myself just me and take a look at the property then if I have any sort of concerns or areas we can kind of go to then I can talk to you and and your Bist and we can go look those over and you know try to Hash things out in the field was that that seem reasonable yeah I just need to know I just when you going out there by yourself so I I haven't looked to see what the weather is this week yet so but I I will let you know tomorrow okay so I have a few questions um yeah go ahead John one clarification you said you only going to look at the flags you're not going to look at the Upland areas as well I mean I assume you can look at everything right well I'm going to look at everything but confirming I'm only confirming the flag resource areas yes okay if there's anything else that's unmapped then for instance I'm going to note it um but for instance the anr itself will be strictly by the flagged resource areas that's what we're confirming all the other resource areas that they're showing as approximate are not determined under this an rad uh why would that be why because you haven't flagged them no with the the areas of of flooding no the areas that you're showing as approximate the approximate WS that have no Flags the other resource areas are part of this in red application I'm saying the flagged resource areas so you're talking about bordering land s and flooding that is correct I cannot field review that yeah nor should you blsf is based on an elevation I can't I can't feel that through the chair Mr chairman So based on the narrative we've shown that there is no bordering land subject to flooding at this property we've done those calculations based on the existing too what I'm talking about is that part of an in rad process is not just the the Wetland lines it's the bordering vegetated Wetlands it's the isolated um bordering uh isolated wetlands and it's also the limits of flooding that's shown on the FEMA flood plane mapping that supposed to show on the plans right area I can't feel verify that you have to you have to do that by whatever the calculation is for the the FEMA flood flood plane there's no calculations involved in a FEMA flood plane it's showing what the record information is just like the vernal pools take the same dat flood plane data and we put that on our plans that is part of the resource areas that we looking to have approved so is there a base Baseline flood is there a base flood elevation for the property there is not we're in a we're in a Zone X of minimal flood zone X is not a flood plane right it's 500 that's what's that's what that's what confusing it's the 500 year that's what you're saying yeah it's the0 2% chance which is the 500 correct it is not the 100 so we got to stop calling it The 100 you know there is no blsf so we need to make that clear yes so we I said it's not the it's not border land subject to flooding it's it's the limit of what's mapped as a flood plane whether it's Zone X zone AE or Zone Zone V those are things that are usually placed on our plans in approved by the Conservation Commission as a resource area we're going to say that there's no regulated flood plane that exists on the site if it's a Zone X then that's perfectly fine y okay now the isolated areas did you um LUN the calculations for isolated land subject to flooding that's what I just said and that's part of the narrative in the an red application no no no we just talked about the hundred-year flood we didn't talk about that's bordering land subject to flooding we didn't talk about ilsf did you do the calculations you had a several isolated vegetated white ones there yes and then in a narrative we did say that it did not meet their criteria of bordering land subject to flooding or isolated land subject to flooding oh okay so based on what though did you do the calculations according to the stormw water handbook yes ma'am the hydrology handbook and are those included in the file for each isolated area I don't know if they're included in the file but if they're they're not we'll get them to you okay yeah those definitely need to be [Music] um okay that's all I had all right um so any further questions from the commission or anybody in the audience um so what I said before still holds true there's a lot of field work to be done uh so uh we're looking at a continuation our next regularly scheduled meeting is uh the 26th of this month do you want um a continuation that soon Brian yes sir Mr chairman all right we we should have this all resolved for the next meeting I'm hoping I should have availability to take a look at this site and be ready to discuss it with the commission of the next meeting all right excellent thanks John uh so with that unless there's further questions we can entertain a motion for continuation of the hearing for file number 25161 um until August 26 Still moves second second um I think you lost out so motion by Mark um second by Lisa sorry Joe Joe and Lisa yeah okay I have to do a sound check on you guys there sounding Sim but all right motion by Joe second by Lisa uh and beginning roll call Vote with Mark and Dan hi hi Paxton and Lisa hi hi and Joe hi and I'll throw in an i motion curious so great thanks chman members of the commission you're you're welcome next time I'm not going to be here but um other other members will we'll be seeing you then okay who's going to lead the show that day well we have a vice chair so that'll be Lisa okay and we we we like like a a platoon we have everybody who can take command anytime I will say that it's it's refreshing to see so many members uh you know I go to various various towns as you know and you know sometimes we can't even get a quorum on a planning board or a commission so uh kudos to all of you uh for always being here because it's the faces that I see every time that I'm on here so it's very refreshing to see a commission so dedicated and I'm not just saying that uh you know to give you an accolate I'm it's it's a true statement because there's some months were continued for two three months because of a lack of a quorum well uh and i' I've been in this town for more than 40 years and I'm going to say there are a lot of citizens that believe in participating in government here and I'm hoping that's true for the whole country we would hope and pray that it is Mr chairman you at all right thank you and our next um uh hearing is also a new public hearing concerning zero Hill Street it's a notice of intent we don't have a file number but it concerns uh proposal for construction of a approximate 30,000 square foot industrial building and I guess you know um I I don't know if I'm getting a little demented or there the next line says Associated septic system parking 3.2 Acres if lay down area I I for the life of me don't understand what an if lay down area is I think I meant with lay down area or um of lay down yeah well I guess the only lay down area I know is a bed so what is the lay down area construction lay down area where you put your materials a storage area jul storage area okay i' I've um it's one of those fancy contractor terms all right so um pile of materials we'll go with that uh all right so do we have a representative of that applicant good evening everybody my name is Tom shutz from God Consulting I'm also here with Andy Flatt who is from bowler engineering he is the engineer for the project uh do you mind if I share my screen I have a brief presentation to go through not at all go ahead great thank you okay so again my name is Tom shutz from God Consulting here on be the applicant at zero Hill Street in Norton Massachusetts as stated before we are still waiting for our D file number uh there is comments on it so it shouldn't be too long um again this is just a Buffer's Zone project so generally they don't take too long to issue file numbers for that my name is Tom shz again here with Andy Platt from bowler just going through a quick agenda here we'll start with the existing conditions on the site then we'll move into proposed conditions and then we'll move into a summary of net changes it's a table that the commission can view that was also submitted with a notice of intent and then we'll have a brief storm water discussion and follow up with any questions or discussion the commission may have this is going to be a high level presentation tonight as this is going to peer review and again doesn't have a d fom are yet so we expect to be back in front of you for at least a hearing or two so this is a 14.32% following my cursor right now and then single family houses which are on H Street border to the north by undeveloped land border to the South by developed land and then there's a industrial complex that's down to the southeast of the parcel there is not a perennial stream mapped within 200 feet of the local site as you could see here this is over 700 feet away additionally this resource area here is located behind a single family house located 200 ft away a great outside of the buffer zone that would reach the site itself so as we move into the resource areas we're going to start looking at the bordering vegetated Wetland that is located on the site this site plan is oriented with North facing to the left as you can see here in the compass so in the northern por of paron me is there a way you can enlarge the the the area of interest because uh it's pretty small on the screen all right that that looks good is that better yeah that's better for me so to the north here we have a large bordering vegetated Wetland system that casts the 100 foot buffer zone onto the site and the 100 foot buffer zone is currently following my cursor right here so it enters limit of work which is shown in this dashed line we also have in the south of the site and the east of the site we have a second bordering vegetated wetland which has an encroachment which we'll talk about in a little while that also casts the 100 foot buffer zone following where my cursor is which would encroach into the limit of the work of site finally we have an isolated vegetated Wetland which is also a mapped certified Vernal pool on the site we did um is St calculations it does not meet the definition of isolated land subject to flooding however it is a certified Vernal pool so we will not be impacting that area at all as stated previously there are three certified vernal pools in close proximity to the site we have our first certified Vernal pool which is that isolated section that we just looked at in the last slide that is located up here in the Northwestern corner of the site we also have two certified vernal pools which are interior to that southern bordering vegetated Wetland line which are located in the south of the site finally we have a potential Vernal pool which is internal which is mapped internal to to the BBW um our wildlife biologist took a look at all of these vernal pools on the site and we took special care to look at the certified veral pool up here in the north portion of the site and then additionally in the this potential Vernal Pool located within the BBW and no Vernal pool species were found in the potential Vernal pool um and we did find veral pool species in this in this one up here and additionally in the two Southern veral pools but no veral pools were no Vernal pool species were actually found in the PVP that's mapped so we do not expect that to be a Vernal pool and have the regulations but again we'll look in we'll look in the coming slides and we'll see that there actually isn't going to be any impact to that area in in general so area is all also mapped within an AC the entire site that's also worth mentioning take a quick look at some photos this is the northern certified Vernal pool a large deep isolated Wetland with Uplands around the entire parcel or portion of it here is this flooded area this is the mapped PVP that is on site again Wildlife biolog just went out did not find any verle species in it and then we have our bordering vegetated Wetland which is following my cursor shown within the blue flag here that is in the southern portion of the site the applicant is proposing a 30 3,000 or so square foot industrial building which will be interior of the site outside of the buffer zone we're additionally going to have two access driveways in order to enter the site and park in front of the building which are going to be located in the Northwestern portion of the site calling my cursor right here and additionally in the southwestern portion of the site here we're also going to have a 3.3 acre material gra or gravel lay down area which is going to be essentially Encompass the majority of the site and around the building and it's going to follow my cursor this is where the material gravel lay down area is going to be and that is going to be a perious uh surface to allow storm water to enter and infiltrate into the ground additionally we're going to have a private fueling station for trucks to fuel up on site without having to go to any gas stations outside of the buffer zone that is shown being outlined by my cursor right here we're also going to have a private septic system which is shown in this vicinity right here also outside of the buffer zone storm water which will be discussed further by Andy is going to be managed through deep Z catch Basin hooded catch Basin and three isolat rows the work that's going to be within the buffer zone to the bordering vegetated Wetland is grading along the outside of the parking lot and material laydowns and then also a portion of some parking lots but the most of it is going to be um pervious work within that buffer zone and no work is going to be quot within 255 ft of any bordering vegetated Wetland we also did keep it 25 feet away from the certified Vernal pool which is down here additionally we kept it 25 feet away from our PVP which we determined not to be a PVP and this bordering veget Wetland this is a graphic showing the impact of buffer zone for our proposed project this this area are the two areas where it's actually going to be impact by perious impervious surfaces that's the dark purple lines perious impacts is shown in this light purple following my cursor and then everything shown in green and tan is outside of the buffer zone and outside of the perview of the conservation Mission here is a table showing our net changes of total buffer zone on site I'll give the commission a second to take a look through this most of our work is going to be pervious work and majority of the project is outside of the buffer zone Tom when did you say they did The Infernal pool investigation the inal pool speech or the inal pool investigation was done on April 17th of 2024 and it was only one investigation we investigated the yes only one investigation correct okay that being said we did find veral pool species in the other three certified vernal pools we did not find anything in the potential Vernal pool now I'm going to turn it over to Andy to discuss the proposed storm water management on the site if you have any questions for me at the end I'll be answering all of the conservation related questions the other ones will be directed towards Andy for storm water and Engineering yeah thank you Tom so PR record I'm Andrew plat with bowler Engineering in South bro um Tom if you can just zoom in just a little little bit on that plan please course so actually I'm going to start with existing conditions and actually might be more helpful to go back to the the grading plan sorry about that so under existing conditions we found that groundwater is relatively shallow as you might expect from the wet ones to the North and South but what you might not expect is that the soil soil is actually pretty well drained in the Middle where we're proposing the development so the middle is pretty good um it's well- drained water infiltrates pretty well so there's pretty much very little runoff um under existing conditions so for proposed conditions we're going to need to mimic that um lack of runoff and what we did is we uh we need we needed to fill the site to provide underground storm water storage and um those are going to be provided by underground storm Tech units which you may be familiar with which are the uh prefabricated plastic storm water Chambers um in time sorry can go back to the other plan we we'll take a look at the stor so we're proposing three systems which are the the rectangles there with the grid patterns on them um they're fairly large for the reason I mentioned before because we need to retain pretty much all of the water on the site uh the one off to the South is a little bit smaller because there's actually more existing runoff to going to the South under existing conditions um and so we basically analyzed three points of of um interest one to the north the north Wetlands one to the South being the South wetlands then to the veral pool itself so all three have very little runoff um and we're retaining pretty much the whole the whole 100 gear storm basically for um under proposed conditions and that's considering that the gra gravel laydown area is pretty close to an impervious condition so it's a rather conservative design where we're um considering worst case conditions uh we're providing more than two feet well generally two fet of Separation to groundwater uh the the existing or sorry the proposed storm water Chambers are going to be basically at the existing ground level to provide that two feet of separation and then as I mentioned we're going to need to bring fill in over those systems just to provide um a working drainage system and the drainage will be collected by the grading all of the grading will drain inward from the site so it's going to go to low points you can see the uh the lines on the plant indicating drainage pipes um Tom I don't know if you can zoom in just a little bit to maybe one of those areas so on the North part of the plan you can see the line connecting a couple dot so they the catch basins yeah exactly like that um and the roof will be going to that North drainage area too to North drainage system so everything's going to dra drain or drain inward it will be collected by Deep slump catch basins and then those are going to discharge to an isolator row within the storm water basins and I'm not sure if you're familiar with those but basically an isolator row is just a containment system where one row of the underground Chambers are wrapped with Filter Fabric and that contains any sediment getting into them so the combination of deeps catch basins and isol the isolat row will be be our pre-treatment prior to infiltration and as I mentioned the infiltration basins capture pretty much the whole 100-year storm with zero outflow which means of course no no TSS outflow either so I think that's um you know rather brief overview of the the drainage system I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have on that uh yeah uh so this term um lay down area in spite of the fact that I've been re I've reviewed many many plans I've never heard that term before and what you're describing this is a permanent Design This what you're referring to as a laydown area is that correct correct so basically what you're describing is a a gravel parking lot area yeah that's accurate yeah okay and it's privious and uh all of that that you describe uh as the pervious surface will have truck traffic and but not car traffic is that correct correct yeah there will be trucks occasionally forklifts you know equipment like that all right and you know in in when we when we talk about um pavement we often have concern for uh pollutants dripping off the equipment and and and so on but you you don't have a way to deal with that in the in the previous surface if you're going to have a fair amount of traffic on it or or you have minimal traffic I'm I'm just not sure I I understand this design oh okay yeah it's going to be I would lean towards a minimal because it's more for storage it's going to be a fencing company using the site so they're going to have you know metal and wood and all the the materials they need for to for to make fences out there and so you're going to have you know you're going to have workers going between the piles with equipment but it's not going to be like you know a steady stream of traffic or anything like that occasionally they're going you know out to pick up something from a pile and coming back so it's not going to be like long-term or or heavy duty you know traffic so basically it's a storage yard area yes yep okay all right and um so uh either John or anybody else have have questions I have a question uh yeah goad is there an intention for snow storage on this site or anything if it's going to be an open yard like this yeah on the site plan which I don't think be included in the presentation here we are providing snow storage within the parking areas up up towards the road and then snow would just be you know pushed out of the way although I believe um winter operations are fairly limited so I think snow may not be such an issue in in the L down area so but that would be just removed and pushed um probably to the low points where it could drain to the catch Basin yeah Joe there was uh in Google Drive there was a brand that that uh labeled the the sow snow storage areas and it was pretty extensive my concern was the lay down area if there was a management plan for lay down area yeah yeah we aren't showing dedicated snow storage areas in the lay down area we could just to demonstrate that they they will drain to the um to the low points so just for how are you going to plow something that's gravel because you're going to dislodge it you're going to dislodge the material every time you plow it because you can't get you can't get close enough I'm just I have concerns about that lay down area and the operation of equipment and potential pollutants um and what type of material will be stored there okay I can get back to you with that and like a plan for snow removal and storage I like I said I think the snow winter operations are somewhat limited but I will I'll confirm that for you I think maybe a one or two paragraph onm simplified onm for what that storage yart is going to include will suffice does that sound good Lisa well I'm not convinced that a perious surface is the best use of equipment operation we we should talk about the pros and cons of um having pavement there so that anything if there's any spill any equipment leaks anything like that um it can at least be captured by a storm water management um system it was there any any reason why you were I mean other than cost uh wanted to do that type of surface in MO of pavement back there yeah it was mostly because it is permeable so we didn't want to provide a huge you know asphalt um area with and I would say that would be great if you weren't going to operate equipment and store material over it but now you're potentially exposing groundwater to whatever is stored it there and whatever uh you know for instance we're not going to startop start policing is equipment going to be stored there when it's not in use so we're we're not in that business so I would rather see a plan that shows I mean you're going to take your best guess but we have no idea what operations are going to look like uh I would like you to consider a pavement back there so you can control what is happening to the ground water and similarly I guess while while I'm on here um yeah you're not going to be able to plow the gravel because you're just going to keep dislodging it um and will there be any unconsolidated materials there any bags of concrete CU typically when you put fences up right this this quickrete or concrete things like that so or is that going to be stored inside so we like i' like a see a list of materials that you think you're going to be able to store outside versus inside um and thinking through of how a fence is installed um the next thing is the um the fuel tank the fuel storage fuel storage the fuing operations I assume that means you're going to put an underground tank in or above ground tank or what's that going to look like there's actually two above ground tanks shown on the site plan right here they're shown in the rectangles they're 1500 gallons total above ground and that's on the impervious surface right which should probably be on the prvious surface because if you have a leak I mean I assume you're going have secondary containment because it's over 12 1350 gallons yeah I believe that's correct okay so I want you to show the secondary containment there um you going to have to figure out what the risk is of putting it there for a uh leak to the groundwater versus being able to control it in the uh catch Basin systems um and then what are you doing for construction term runoff in order for uh storm water management did you provide a Swip or yeah well there's an ens plan in the um application documents which shows silt fence along the perimeter and I think we so it pretty much the the line shown as liit of work right so Sil fence along the perimeter is not storm water management that's sediment control he you guys are disturbing more than an acre you guys are going to need a Swip yeah yeah yeah so we want to see the swi um we want to see Provisions for erosion prevention temporary seaing uh seeding during winter conditions uh winter shutdown uh so when I I say storm waterer management I'm not just talking about putting up a row of sediment fence and letting it fly so uh look to the cgp and um prepare a set of um plans that would go with the Swip so we can approve those I you are subject to the Swip so you you um you do owe us that document um and you mentioned um the Overflow from the bottom left system was to the Vernal Pole or no there's no because that's a considered a critical area right so correct yeah there's no overflow directly to the veral pool so where does that system overflow if we're talking about the system to the north it overflows to the north so there's a if we can um zoom in just a little bit on the the line oh I see I can see it now okay it and that only actually for the 100e storm or greater I think it's actually over the 100e storm so it would never come into use really okay so you're showing you're not showing any retaining walls that's all going to be a filled uh slope is that 2: one 3: one and what's your slope treatment going to be uh 3 to one with seating on it okay and you have a velocity dissipation at the end of those pipes yes we do based yeah based on actually the Connecticut DOT um method for doing that okay John Thomas is this is this being peer reved for stor I was actually gonna ask Megan my assistant to see where we are with this peer review process yes so um I believe that they've agreed to the peer review I just don't have the check yet um or uh uh written confirmation of the agreement um so once I get that I'll send over to West and Samson to start the peer review okay all right all right that's all I had for this week okay so um so it seems like we're going to have a little bit of time so I will go out there this week and take a look at all the flags and make sure John do you want do you want me to meet you there so we can watch flag together or to if you'd like it's up to you if you've got availability uh we can coordinate tomorrow okay that works okay yep and uh we'll work with Lon and Samson and hopefully they can get us something before the next meeting all right so uh any further I I don't think we've asked the audience if there are any questions in the audience um and if we're okay with uh everyone on the commission we can go ahead and ask anybody have questions in the audience somebody has their hand up Julian oh yes go ahead uh so it's is that I Stewart that computer this is Lori I live at 51 Hill Street okay um I've been on the street since the early 70s um and my concern is the Vernal pools that are supposedly uninhabited um like I said been here since the 70s walked that property many of times and I watched what happened when flatly went into the Norton Commerce and buried ponds and then had to come back in and uncover them so I really hope someone does a site walk um it's a big concern really big concern with what's going on across the street with the wildlife the the there's a cranberry bar where's the runoff going to go with that with one of the entrances which is closer to 61 Hill Street there's just a lot a lot going on across the street with wildlife and like I said I watch what happened when flatly move moved in there and bulldozed and filled supposedly ponds that were not habitate there was nothing there well there were things there there were otter families and and I remember it like I said been here since the 70s I really hope someone takes a good hard look at what's going on across the street from from the residents thank you yeah just to talk touch on that the site is not mapped for any estimated or rare habitat for wildlife additionally we're not proposing to fill any of the uh certified vernal pools we're not even proposing to fill any of the wetlands we're staying at least 25 fet or greater from all of the Wetland resources on the site uh again if you're looking at the screen you can see here's our sort of veral pool on the site and you can see a 25 foot buffer zone around it so we're not actually um proposing to impact any of those additionally this is a fully undeveloped lot there wasn't any develop on our development on our site to begin with this is a completely new application with an old growth for or I guess like more of a Pine Forest that's currently growing on it so there hasn't been any work on our site up to up to this point right and again is the runoff Burnal pools you know and the fact that this you're talking about trucks coming in and out you know I went to a meeting at the Holiday Inn they also have a showroom there's going to be vehicles coming in and out of the showroom there installers have vehicles in and out CS being parked there by just just a concern oh well just to address um partially your concern that you can see on this plan the infiltration units um are rather extensive uh and that ensures that the runoff essentially will not change from current conditions to developed conditions uh and we have John who's going to be examining these Wetland boundaries and the potential ver a pool uh and to ensure that things are not going to be filled that should not be touched and to follow and to follow up with that we are having this project peer reviewed for storm water and if there are any consistencies with our local BW or the storm water handbook the peer reviewer will let the applicant know and um I will comment that um during the initial development of the uh Norton Commerce Center yes there were errors uh and I I was on the commission at the time and was involved with uh the remediation of some of the violations that occurred uh and I will also say that there has been an evolution through time of the acceptance of the value of the Wetland protection act and when it was first instituted there was a lot of resistance to the idea that this would be helpful in the long run and and I would say over the last 40 years ited is much more accepted as something very positive for uh development in terms of the sustainability of development uh any further questions from anyone I have one more Julian yeah go ahead the material in the lay down area says you know it's noted to be a gravel material of what size is that material and will it potentially be tracked out in Tire picking or anything the roads uh I really don't have the specifications on the gravel yet but we can we can come up with something that meets uh meets your requirements well I don't I don't necessarily know if it has to meet our requirements because I don't know what type of equipment again we're back to the type of equipment you're going to have operating on that material so if it's not large enough Stone you're going to end up grinding it and compacting it every time then you're going to have material popping through it again I have I really need you to look at Paving that deck I don't really think there's a reason why it should be gravel um for various reasons that I've stated so but if you do elect to present that again um we will need a specification on that and we will need maintenance for that as well yeah and and my concern is yeah having having a light V vehicle uh moving around on gravel um is much less of a challenge in in terms of long-term maintenance but if you have something like uh for which then yeah I mean first well they're they're very heavy and second they then lift a load um I don't see how gravel can support that kind of equipment unless you have some unusual fork with that has extremely broad tires to to distribute the the weight per per foot per square foot so it just seems odd to me if you're going to use that kind of equipment I mean I suppose you could use a a a a tractor uh with broader tires that has a forklift attachment but it's still a maintenance issue if it's gravel so we will eagerly look at uh proposals in the future so um it look if there no further questions or discussion I I think we can consider a motion for continuation and I think our next uh meeting is the 26th of this month uh and I assume that would be acceptable for for yes we'd like the request continuance the next hearing file number yet oh sorry hold on no no file number at this point okay sorry d That's sorry uh so I I think we did have a unless there further questions we did have have a motion by Dan and and second coming from second uh from Lisa so roll call vote beginning with Mark and Dan I I and Joe and pxton I hi and Lisa hi I'll throw in a all right so next item on our agenda is um continue public hearing waiting River Estates and I I believe uh everything was reviewed and the only thing we had to do with this is close and then review and amended order conditions a little later on but I'm going to take a very brief break and turn on some lights here so I can see John we were we waiting for anything now I can't remember why we contined it we continued it I think because the time frame because we bordering exactly on three weeks and we needed um and so I think we're going to entertain a motion to close the hearing uh file number 250-10 52 for waiting River Estates request for an amended order second uh motion by Lisa seconded by that was Mark yeah y okay we got it uh so roll call Mark and Joe how do you vote hi hi Dan and pxton hi hi and Lisa hi and I'll throw in an ice the motion carries um so I guess we can go ahead and uh and go ahead and do the amended order now because our next group is a certificates and um and so on that would be great Mr chairman well there's not much to it um since you have a prior order understood so um any questions or comments on the draft no John I think you did a nice job laying out what what the Delta was what changed so we good I try to make it easy for everybody it is easy and I'll tell you that the the the sequence of events has made it it like from a nightmare into did I say a Daydream not that not that nice but um so if there are no comments we can entertain a motion to U approve the draft order for the amendment for file number 250- 1032 I'll make a motion to issue the draft uh you get me saying draft I'll make a motion to issue the amended order for file 250-10 52 second we have a motion by Lisa seconded by Mark roll call vote Mark and Joe how do you vote hi hi and uh Dan and Lisa hi hi and Paxton hi and I'll thr9 so motion carries thank very much everybody thank you John I I'll wait for your email on that one thank you so much we'll send it to you all right appreciate it good night everybody good night night so next item on the agenda is a request for full coc for file number 250- 11156 61 Main Street and I believe this is the uh honeydew Donuts um site uh with regard to the changes that were made and this this is kind of a um in transition as I understand it is a a fair statement John yes Eric do you want to touch upon it uh yeah excuse me not a problem um so for the record Eric Dias registered professional engineer with strong point engineering we're presenting uh the applicant tonight um yes we were for you a little while back um what was basically an after the fact notice of intent for some improvements that were made to the parking facility at the Honeydew Donuts um the whole thing that spurred all of this is that there's a potential sale of the property and it's lated to be redeveloped so I think the sticking point with what we talked about last time was with regard to storm water management improvements on the site and we had kind of gone back and forth and the um order of conditions that was granted included conditions that the whoever is in control of the property within 12 months of the issuance of the after the fact notice of intent would bring forward a new design showing a improved storm water system that meets compliance with current regulations and another condition that says that within 18 months of that same date it would be permittable through the Conservation Commission um so we did provide with the request for order of conditions since there was no work to be done because it was after the fact um we did provide this document and I will share my screen real quickly because I think this really is the Trux of the whole thing this is an acknowledgement letter of understanding that specifically quotes both of those conditions condition 10 stating that we will bring forward a new Design Within 12 months of ISS which would be June 25th 2025 and condition 41 that says that within 18 months of this insurance which would be Christmas of 2025 um we will expect to be approved by the Conservation Commission um and it has been signed by both the current Landover excuse me owner which is Richard Bowen for br and the potential buyer which is U Mr Anthony Reco um so it's signed by both interested parties it is a continuing condition that let's just say BR sold to somebody other than Mr Reco it would then be on them um we just feel very confident in this particular acquisition so we had Mr RTO sign this as well to hopefully give the commission some level of comfort with what our plan is and really that's it uh so John it sounds like we can just go ahead and issue this certificate of compliance on file number 250-1 56 yes because these are Perpetual conditions and they'll continue all right looking for a motion uh so I'll make a motion to issue a full coc for [Music] I I and Paxton I and Al I the motion carries thank you Eric have a good night um next is a a request for certificate of compliance for file number 250- 1013 which was the single family house and it says in the report that every thing is in order and um the area to be stabilized has been moded twice meets closeout requirements um so looking for a motion I'll make a motion to issue a full coc for 250-1033 second we have a motion made by Lisa seconded by Paxton Park and your vote I I Dan and Lisa hi hi and Paxton hi and I'll n motion carries uh and then we have um a request for an extension file number 250-17 uh Somerset Street 21 Somerset Street I guess it's a it's a house that um there some bumps in the road so uh the extension request is for 3 years this will be the last extension that's allotted for this they otherwise they have to refile just so that have that for the record so there's no reason to issue uh not to issue the threeyear right John no there's no no reason not to you can I mean we could issue you know one year two but okay but there's no reason not to issue the the three okay the the the property is going through some other litigation so I don't know how long that's going to take so they wanted to be safe for having a three-year yep all right I will make a motion to issue a three-year extension for file 250-17 second motion by Lisa seconded by Dan Mark and Joe hi hi Dan and Lisa hi hi and Paxton hi and I'll throw in an ey motion carries um so we don't have any um other orders to address other than the um the amended orders draft minutes they were short sweet not too much in them they light meeting last time I have no comments or questions make a motion to accept the draft minutes minutes as drafted excuse me for 722 2024 okay um so um motion by Lisa seconded by Mark Mark and Joe how do you vote hi hi and Dan and Lisa hi hi and PX I think right and I'll thr it that nice work Megan always nice work um so we had briefly talked about 258 plan street but why don't you is take it away yeah uh I'll let Craig take it away Craig you there y I'll share screen hang on a second [Music] so this is 258 plane not 92 East M yeah that's that's a separate discussion oh okay oh hopefully it comes up and showing there we go that show up on your screen yes okay so 258 plan Street we were hired to uh do an addition on this existing Barn um this house was is shown on the assessors was being built in 1784 looking at the older Google Earth This Barn existed at the same time it was a gravel drive it's hard to determine looking at it what constituted but it's now paved the resource areas are the mury Meadow Brook with the channel out here but the mean annual high water mark here we flagged up U the BBW in green the orange dash line is the flood plane at 73.4 there's also the noton resource Protection District that scales about here on the property so I know John had gone on vacation before he could review the flags we had Brad Holmes of ECR environmental Consulting and restoration review off flags and he agrees with the locations so the river bank had the River Line has a 100 foot buffer zone here in blue and then the 200 foot repair in here so the work that we're proposing Falls in here but then as John pointed out when you look at different Maps throughout uh my client bought the lot in 200 16 all these are uh begin that chain link or this is all fence and everything in there is now astro turf artificial grass then there's lawn around the house that pre-existed uh would be assumed and uh so we're counting this is degraded we have this portion of the pave driveway would also be within the 200 bu Zone uh so we have a total of 97524 sare Ft of Riverfront area on the lots and the degraded area we haven't did not see any within the 100 foot buffer zone but within the 200t we have 934 square feet that's all this astro turf we're not counting the building we are including this shed but this shed shows up on old PL on the old um prior to 1996 and then the barn today exists to about this line I can zoom in a little bit about half of it collapsed several years ago and what they're looking to do is expand it to what I'm showing this crossed area but taken into uh pre-existing 1996 and then the degraded areas we have today we're at uh 9304 Square ft this additional if they did replace the existing Barn that collapsed and then expanded it as they're showing we'd be at 95 86 sare ft or 9.83% of the riverfront area but the other concern is that the areas the scallop line is the heavy tree line that we located so there's between here and the fences land has been cleared there is a garden in here that should have been on the plan it's roughly in this area right here it's a raised bed garden but from here the pavement from outside the building so areas have been cleared but at this time we have not really had a chance to go through and see if there are areas that are not lawn at this time but they haveen been cleared but could be allowed to be go back to natural and then what would be required to mitigate those cleared areas that uh we assume happened since all this work in the yard went up is 7600 sare ft so as I said we would if mitigation is required we'll have Brad holes uh review what is to be planted areas that could be left to be go back to [Music] Natural at this time the only construction would be this uh replacement of the portion of the bond that collapsed expanded probably about 260 square ft so I the clarification you're at the 99.8% so everybody the threshold is 10% right correct but then you're saying they went over because they added the 7670 so what is the actual number well the yeah the clear area the worked in area would be the so it be the 9586 plus the 76 correct that's what I would like to see on the plan that shows you're over the 10% correct I have not had a chance to address the plan completely and go ahead sorry so what is that shaded in that's existing pavement and looking at the 1995 Google Earth you can see that there is gravel where the driveway was at one point but now this entire area is paved but this is within the 200 foot so that is pavement at this time the circle in the middle is they left the tree in place they paved around it so the additional clearing that's the 7620 it's all in the outer so that's what's pushing you over the 10% correct correct so we should be looking for mitigation in the outer I would think do you agree with that Sean yes that's what I was going to suggest is mitigation within the 100 to 200 foot Riverfront area oh I meant the other way Oh you mean the other way zero to 100 no no from the 100 to the 200 sorry that's what I me outan okay outter reparan sorry yes 100 to 200 yes so if you can just add that that note that we just talked not the note but just the total ear yeah and then show what you're going to mitigate so is the is the easiest thing to do is to remove that pavement why why was that area paved the Shaded area well it obviously goes back to where the B is proposed to be built I again it when you look at p96 it's hard to determine where the gravel driveway was it's obvious it was in this area but I don't know where extended to in what they've done outside of that since 1996 so I you know other than that there there's really there's no space to get rid of that pavement so it's like all right you going to need to let you build the B extension or you going to or get rid of the pavement right so it's one it's going to be one or the other in the end because that's what's putting you over right what's the area for the pavement again cig uh just the pavement yeah 1400 Square F feet oh so 140000 yeah so that's not even enough right yeah right so you're gonna have to come up with more um John does this delineation match the um the project that we just approved not just approved but that you mean one that's to the South yeah uh it was the same delineator that looked and reviewed at all these Flags Okay okay so we're sure that's it um and how come there's no toppo I'm seeing one I'm just in the flood zone for too there is there is toppo on the map I think Craig just turned the layers off turn off to make it clear we did do topography that's how we we did map out the blood plane here we have topography across the site and the mitigation plan would show that okay just wanted to make it more clear what we were showing yep I mean so it doesn't look like there's any room in in the inner riparian to there a break in the in the V vation there right below the we said there was a garden there but what about the other breake there that's to the yeah right there right there yeah is that like a path or something I don't know what that is beginning of a path yeah yeah so so again outside of outside of the fences here this is either lawn or vegetation that has been taken down but maybe hopefully not destroyed and could be allowed to return to Natural as well but if mitigation is required then as I said we would have Brad holes come up with a scheme yeah reverting something to lawn does not take it out of so so you look at the degraded state right so something that lacks top soil that's the regulation right so we would look to something that lacks top soil so just having some existing area grow back is not mitigation you have to look to something that lacks top soil that's considered degraded and restored that to a non-degraded state in order to meet that 10% threshold so I think that's what we'll be looking for okay understood yeah I don't know if there's going to be 7600 square feet of degraded surface area out there though after going out there and seeing the site no so that's the CH that's the challenge I think that that the mitigation alternative is going to have to be and this is The Challenge on why it's important to come to the Conservation Commission so you know these sort of instances don't occur um and you know I don't know if a vegetative enhancement is going to solidify relief you know um it's just it's a hard one and that's why I was saying you know is there any way that proposed structure could potentially be you know positioned outside the riverfront area or a majority of it outside the riverfront area as an alternative instead of it having you know in the riverfront area have it be to the right in the existing parking lot or the existing pavement right there where your cursor was yeah I mean I could talk to my client about expanding it this way put this outside and alongside the existing pavement I mean majority of that way would put this structure outside you'd be able to get a bulk majority of it you know by putting more you know surface area within a within our regulatory resource which the riverfront is it's a resource area itself um you know it puts a damper on the commission to really allow and accept you know this and you know there are some C certain unique circumstances where the commission is allowed to you know provide relief but those are far in in between I mean like a limited project they may be able to do that but not not something like this I mean there has to be some sort of significant mitigation to make up that that um you know Disturbed area right so basically you know you look at the standards for R front area and it it goes through Alternatives analysis so to John's Point why does the barn have to be expanded in that direction why can't it be expanded in a different direction so those are things we'd be looking at or you should be looking at in terms of meing the Alternatives analysis for the impacts okay so we're going to need a extension or continuance to look into this well this is a discussion yeah yeah this is a discussion and I don't know is it going to be U eventually a filing is that the argue it well there's there's two options I mean they can do an after action file ing or we could you know do this under an enforcement um and you know I think for instance for this if they could propose the building outside of the riverfront area and or majority of it outside the riverfront area and then you know do some sort of vegetation restoration similar to the other topic that's on our agenda we might be able to be work with him with a friendly enforcement order to kind of restore and revegetate the area and basically just say that we're putting a cap on any future disturbance for the property um I I I don't know i' I'd position that to the commission and see if they were comfortable with doing that but that's the only alternative I see potentially working out for this situation I don't know if everyone else agrees I kind of think it does need to be in an order because we need to somehow document and condition that this site is maxed out and nothing else can happen in the river front on it after this this is it they're done they're cooked well the enforcement order gets recorded with their deed okay okay um but does it have a condition on it can you condition there are conditions you can put in there okay okay so I guess let's let's let's get the revised um plan and then discuss the mitigation then figure out how we're going to okay perit it after the fact so okay so Craig do you have enough to yes yes we can proceed from there okay all right thank you and um is there any new information about uh 92 East Main Street or um I I thought that that was potentially going to be a filing as well Megan any update to that uh no I haven't heard from anybody uh in regards to that project well I think if that's the case then we should have a discussion about maybe making this uh the friendly uh order of I guess enforcement order and not so friendly enforcement order moving forward somebody remind me which one this what this was uh this is behind what used to be midway garage oh okay right right right and it involves right I remember I think it invol both inner and outer riparian zones my recollection they uh did some millings and then they were coming in with a restoration plan and I wasn't at the mo the past meeting but my understanding is that you all had concerns with them parking in an area that was going to be part of the restored area that was what I got the gist of and that was not the intent the intent was either they have two options they restore the area and and figure out somewhere else they're going to park or come in for an after action um notice of intent and design an area where they can park so those are the two options that I laid out to them so have you followed up with them could could you follow up with oh I'm going to follow with them tomorrow okay and uh probably let them know that we'll be issuing another enforcement order to them that's not going to be so friendly okay and you know we try to give people benefit of the doubt to be willing to work with them and they don't show up they don't follow up um you know it's unfortunate Y and I will be charging them $300 too all right by the way Dan I like your purple background oh thank you yes it was uh it just happened to be there I I was at on a different screen earlier and that didn't work out so sorry about that um yeah purple well I I was just saying that you're representing Mr Norton today Mr Norton that's right uh hopefully I didn't miss any votes does did are there any votes where I was not there I'm because I think I missed like five minutes or so something no I think you're in between everything oh good good you missed out on reading the Preamble sorry about that he did that on purpose yeah I just I'm not being paid enough um so anything else on Old business new business that we want to talk about I'll leave that up to me again anything to report um no everybody wants to talk to you as soon as you leave a vacation so it's always how it is did you tell them that I I have a life outside of work yeah they didn't seem to believe that wow but no nothing nothing new or major going on okay all right well I will not be able to attend the the next meeting me either I will be in Romania mixing Megan will be on vacation tury and Greece it's h yeah I was looking at the weather I was not looking forward to it but we're on the coast so yeah well it was Megan does Johnny know the Greek word for uh steak uh steak sub or uh no I've been learning all the Greek oh they speak English there too well maybe he'll come back with some Greek Burger ideas there you go oh that'd be nice yeah all right well until next time right so Megan is it a is it is yes we buy out to Athens on Saturday all right enjoy thank you all right well good night everybody the adjourning the bell all right I will not be next time so enjoy vacation yeah I'll be driving the bus I hope to got him one time because I have to go to Boston that day to go to the office so okay well if you're not that means Mr Pearson you're the next one in line next in line no I should be I'm gonna try Okay on time I think we'll be all right so okay all right take care everybody thank bye bye night everyone good night