recording in progress so um this will be the beginning of Norton regularly scheduled Norton Conservation Commission meeting uh for April 22nd 2012 4 it is now 6:30 pm. and as is required we will be reading the Preamble um related to this being a remote meeting so Dan go ahead pursuant to Governor heing March 209 unfortunately Dan you froze oh oh dear uh see see if it work still frozen uh you're Frozen but your audio is coming through so so continue all right um okay all right uh let's see uh this meeting of the Norton Conservation Commission well actually um let me I should repeat just in case um pursuant to Governor Co ER policies and programs by allowing virtual meetings to continue from March 31st 2023 to March 31st 2025 this meeting of the Norton Conservation Commission will be conducted via remote participation to the greatest extent possible specific information and the general guidelines for remote participation by members of the public Andor parties with the right and or requirement to attend this meeting can be found at the end of this agenda members of the public attending this public hearing meeting virtually will be allowed to make comments if they wish to do so during the portion of the hearing designated for public comment by raising their hand virtually or pressing star n if participating by phone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time the techn local means in the event that we are unable to do so despite best efforts we will post on the Norton Cable website ww w. Norton media center.org an AUD or V video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting thank you Dan so uh participate participating tonight we have John Thomas our uh conservation director and um Megan harup um our assistant we also have myself Julian cadis chair uh Lisa kosa Vice chair Mark Fernandez um thama vest Joseph carallo um I know p you're here there you go H and I think that's the full board um so our our first item on the agenda is a new public hearing file number 250- 978 a request for an amendment um with regard to adding uh at least one additional weed killing agents um for the treatment of Norton Reservoir and and I will state that I uh border the Norton Reservoir so I will not be voting on this but um I will uh continue to uh monit uh direct the the discussion so do we have a um representative of the applicant would that be Stephan uh your audio seems to not be working well so give it a try is this better or that is much better all right very good I'll speak up all right U may I share my screen please I think you probably already can there you go we see your [Music] slide all right hello everyone my name is Stephanie and I'm here today on behalf of the town we request to amend and extend the order of conditions for Norton Reservoir um the purpose of the amendment is to add the herbicide prel coure um to list of products approved for use at Norton Reservoir um under this amendment there would be no change to the overall management area of the original order of conditions and this would simply allow for additional treatment options and to manage the variable mil foil prel core is already approved for use at one and chartle palms and treatment would take place in late spring when early summer at concentrations of less than or equal to 10 parts per billion and the request for extension would simply allow for the continued implementation of the Aquatic man uh PL Management program at noron Reservoir and that's about it okay um so this themes to be a straightforward modification based on the appearance of of mil foil at the the in the Norton Reservoir is that correct that is correct all right any questions from the commission or I have a question oh sorry go ahead all right well uh you you were there first yeah okay yeah so sorry I think I didn't catch it when uh before the slides went off but does this target any species other than the mil foil no it doesn't no okay and Joe re-entry time and down stre irigation use on I'm sorry will you repeat that for me please what would be the re-entry time on this herbicide and the downstream use on irrigation all right so I'm not certain of the answers to those questions I can find that out and and respond back to the commission well the the um the degradation of this agent is that well known of how rapidly breaks down um because that would really be the the the key to the answer I think okay I would I have to find that answer I don't know that off of the top of my head I apologize so just to give the the commission some I guess back story we recently approved the use of this treatment um chemical for the chartle pond and also wonet Pond which are also of higher sensitivity than W Reservoir as it comes to species and um habitat um restoration or just kind of protection um so if it's if your concerns are for fish or for any sort of species Downstream then I would say that um you know it is a a natural heritage um approved uh chemical and it's also uh okay by the state's parameters I don't want a woman's plan for Joe but I I think what he's asking is um more based on on the quality of water that you would draw for irrigation purposes not habitat related question oh so you're talking correct correct Downstream Downstream used for irrigation and herbicide how it will affect Downstream irrigation use so you're talking for like agricultural use or you talking for uh normal any any draft on the Water Resource yeah question I don't know if they answered it originally they they it may be in the file and they had answered it originally but I I don't think I don't think it was brought up at that time to be honest with you and I think one of the keys to this uh issue is what is the Drell time in other words does it break down very rapidly uh so that by the time it would leave the reservoir the likelihood of any effect but but that's that's the answer we need Stephanie if if we could get that feedback in some way that would be helpful to my my question only would be is that we have a posting that would allow a certain time frame of Downstream water use and that would be all that I would be in be 28 48 64 hours whatever the requirement be yeah so we we do have not that are are given out the St the town does have uh that that posted a couple weeks ahead of time um we have a two-e window of notice so that way for instance prior of treatment so if anybody's looking to draw down the water um they they're basically giv notice two weeks ahead of time does that serve your question no that's on The Upfront end Joe's asking once it's Qui right correct once it's applied what the downstream usage could be thank you yeah and and the other thing that may be uh relevant is Stephanie you mentioned it that it would likely be applied in the fall or the spring oh spring Spring and Summer Okay so it would be relevant to um irrigation um use so I I think if we can get the information about how long it remains in the water column and whether or not Downstream um warnings of some sort might be needed so Stephanie when does the existing order expire so that expires this this year so in a in April actually so this month yes okay and so you're looking for a what a one year what what's the reest is it so it's for a threeyear extension okay okay well um so John procedurally if we continue this until May 6th is that going to be a problem well the the order would expire so for instance you can't continue it you can do one you can do one thing here you can provide the extension but then two we from now they can come back for an amendment and uh get the amendment for after answering all those other questions okay and actually I do have I was able to obtain um that time frame so it's typically is typically not detectable the following day so it breaks down very quickly so within 24 hours within 24 hours okay so then if I understand that correctly it's applied and within 24 hours it's gone that yes is understanding that's what the pesticide sheet says online so okay uh so Joe does that does that help that covers my question 100% as long as the Ste Street allows this to happen then I think our normal postings are adequate I'd like to make a motion to accept this um well let's see we're um so technically this is a new public hearing so the procedure I guess has to be we have to close and um and then we can potentially um yeah the extension doesn't isn't present on the agenda elsewhere so so we can we can uh entertain a motion to close and then a motion to extend uh this like to entertain a motion to close second we have a motion by Joe seconded by Lisa roll call uh vote starting with Dan and Lisa hi hi Joe and Mark hi hi hi T and Paxton hi hi and I'll throw it an ey and uh so we can now extend the um permit for file number 250- 978 motion for that I make a motion to extend the um ordered conditions for file 27-9 78 for 3year period April 20 27 second tesus did you say 270 or 250 I think you said uh 25978 right okay yeah uh yes that's correct and uh so motion by Lisa seconded by Joe roll call vote starting with Dan and Lisa hi hi uh and Joe and Mark hi hi T and Paxton hi hi and I'll throw in an ice the motion carries thank you Stephanie thank you uh next item on the agenda does not have a file number uh but it refers to 18 Country Club Way U notice of intent uh for um an addition of a sunro to an existing dwelling do we have a representative of the applicant hi we are the applicants how are did D all right I'm very good now I don't know if you uh can streen share the plan or uh John is this something that you need to post up we can screen share oh okay um let's see share this is our plot plan and where we're located in um approximation to the Wetland area we are um within 100 ft obviously of of the Wetland um but the area right behind our home is a non jurisdictional um Wetland area and we are proposing that we would protect that area um with a silk fence um of to be more than 25 ft away from um that area to prevent any syage on during construction now on the plans that I uh were present in our database that we reviewed the are of modification is not clear but I believe there's a description saying the enclosed porch and existing deck is going to be the area of the of the construction is that correct correct so we are building right on top of our existing deck area um which is attached to the home um and so it would be partial for the sun room and the other part for an open deck and then below that would be an enclosed deck and so it is exact um the space and size of what was originally there in terms of um being a 12x 32 feet um deck space do you anticipate any kind of excavation for this or is it going to be built on structures that are that are going to be permanent and enclosed permanent and enclosed so no no dirt has to be dug up and no cement is going to be poured is that correct the cement the concrete is a poured the what do you call it the found the foundation is a poured concrete foundation so there will have to be some excavation for a foundation then yes um and that's probably going to require some some sedimentation control around the the the area of construction um do you think there's anywhere any way you can um modify this existing drawing with the showing where the limit of work would be and the um and the the sedimentation barriers which usually are like straw bottles or something like that you that would be possible so this is an after um the fact notice of intent the foundation has already been bed and um the structure is already stable and so we had obtained a builder's permit over a year ago and at the time we were not advised that a conservation permit was needed in conjunction with that and so this is after the FL all right so this is getting your te's crossed and your eyes dotted then uh yes so John maybe you can comment this is this is totally stabilized and and this is something that um this is um it just needs a a closure and then um an order and a certificate of compliance is that uh what the procedure is going to be here that's correct and I guess you know obviously it was not communicated maybe some miscommunication happened between the town and and the applicant and they um have respectfully submitted a after action notice of the tent for the work that was already done uh and they're in front of us this evening to kind of present um what they have uh it is within the outer extent of the 100 foot buffer zone um but you know that was just something that I thought they should come back in uh to get a receive an actual after action order uh and be able to get a certificate of compliance uh for that work and be basically on the books the right way rather than be the wrong way yeah and this this will protect you in the future should the the property uh change hands and it would be potentially a glitch that would hold things up so it's good to get this just settled in out of the way I have I have one question certainly the site is stabilized we do have grass back on site we do have complation of any disturbance yes thank you um Jo Thomas if that's the the graphic or the figure that we're going to be approving the only thing I'll ask is I didn't see W or buckers own on there no and I agree the the they don't have a number yet and that's probably what uh DP is wondering about is because they don't see the buffers they don't see the wetlands so one of my comments I guess would be to associate the the resource areas it looks like they used Goddard Consulting to do an assessment and evaluation where the wetlands were based on the report that they had on file uh in the permit so I would just make sure that that stuff gets correlated and translated to the actual plan that Risser did um once we have that then I I'm sure that DP would release a file number and we'd be able to you know issue an order conditions for the after action work that was done okay so we're meing for that as well as DP yeah I mean we can't we can't issue a permit of work until D does and D is probably wondering the same thing I haven't checked the comments on this one I don't think they released any yet they may be back backordered on on other projects but most of the time if it doesn't meet their normal specifications for for review then they just put it on hold all right so yes so first I guess I have to ask any questions from any member of the audience about this project and if not um I think we can consider a motion for continuation I make a motion to continue the public hearing for 18 country clubway um is the next meeting it's May 6 May 6 second second we have a motion made by Lisa seconded by Dan for continuation of this hearing um so roll call vote beginning with t and Paxton hi hi and Dan and Lisa hi hi Mark and Joe hi I saw I think I saw an eye there Joe but you're you're muted but uh Al in an eye so basically that what that means is we have to have a file number before we can close it sounds like um we presume we will get that um by May 6th um I think you need to be in contact with John as to whether you need to even be on that hearing because if it's just a file number um there's no further discussion required and we would just proceed with the um the order and then the certificate of compliance okay I would just plan to have a revised plan drafted by your by your engine engineer or surveyor and just make sure that they put the Wetland buffers and wetlands on the plan so that way so that way we can just use that that plan as a base and then provide it and close it potentially at the next meeting if you get a file number by then okay John know the Wetland was described as non-jurisdictional so there may be that may be the reason why there's no buffer so the issue that I have though is godard's called it a BBW so that's that's why I'm saying that for instance if Godard is calling it a BBW I'm going to call it as a BBW as well so that's why I'm saying if it's a bordering vegetated Wetland it's considered a jurisdictional wetland and if that's what the Wetland scientist is claiming then that's what it's going to be treated as all right fine details result um so uh we are continued and our next uh so thank you guys and our next item is uh file number 1138 and uh before we open that uh John we have a town meeting coming up and I thought it was on the 20th of May so um we need to resolve that um with regard to for upcoming schedule but file number I mean determination 1138 115 king um load request for determination we have a representative of the applicant so I thought our town meeting was not the 20th it was the week before that well we can resolve it I just I didn't want to let it drop in case okay but just a note to be made uh Craig yes good evening Craig Rim engineering uh Bobby G the owner of the property is also on um screen share give all set Craig go ahead I assume you can see the plan now yes uh okay so this uh 115 King Philip Road abing uh wion [Music] pond with a um so the house is built in 1972 you can see they have a inground pool with a patio enclosure around uh this existing carport the driveway so the wetlands resources is the uh the pond itself of course the flood plane in this area is elevation 73.4 which we found to run right behind the existing house uh patio is about a half a foot higher than the flood plane the flood plane runs behind this there's a the deck on this pool there is raised a foot or so above the ground so it's not uh it's on posts uh and the flood plane runs basically right under it and around this shed and off to the property uh next door what we're looking to do is put a detach garage right here and the second item we're looking to do is a removable floating dock in the pond itself uh the zone that we're in unfortunately requires 50 foot front setback which is why I have the garage pushed back where we have if we uh some reason cannot get this approved in this location we'd have to ask zoning board for a uh a variance on the setback I would like to move it forward if we could but again the 50 Foot is minimum so we're leaving room between the house and the uh proposed garage as they have this existing Ro uh boat launch area which will now be used to access their dock if approved uh the other resource that we have on the property is the wion pond is a red species habitat number 676 so I went on the uh ner website today they have it listed that they did receive the package but they they have not responded this time but we're looking to do is another a deck that is uh comes in pieces they come in 4 foot wide by 8 foot long up to 12 foot and they'd like to join a couple and make a 33 by deck that extends out into the uh Pond sitting on adjustable post that again this would be temporary removable so the posts just sit on the floor of the [Music] pond so our uh proposed garage is 18 by 24 it would be on a slab grade um elevation 76.5 as you can see right behind us is the flood plane so we're not looking to fill anything behind here my opinion the existing wooden deck would have to be removed or at least temporarily in order to build this in this location but we're not looking to fill the land behind so the foundation would stand out of the ground about two feet and then just natural grade behind uh and then of course add the driveway here add additional pavement to access the the entrance to the [Music] garage so we're looking to at had about 300 well I had shown the carport as the filu that located it made a note that there was a footing here but I mean a slab but there really isn't so we're adding uh that's just a wooden shelter with the gravel base so we're adding about 600 square feet of impervious to the lot and um to mitigate the roof water in this area we are showing a re roof water recharge system one ctech chamber that would handle the uh entire roof of the proposed garage and that is situated outside the 100 foot buffer which runs in front of the house and basically right the front of the proposed garage so we have our recharge plac right next to the existing pavement if there are any questions that I can't answer then Mr Grio is on on the call as well so uh this is in the outer buffer it appears um yeah we didn't find any uh bordering vegetated Wetland but we held to the high water mark we have a retaining wall that extends along the neighbors property we had a water stain there and also some staining in the soil up here so we we had a we placed some Flags where that high water mark is and that's where we're basing our 100 foot buffer [Music] on so um you had mentioned you still need to get a response from a natural heritage or or not yes I as I said I went on to their website it they do show that they have us listed there but apparent you know they give themselves 30 days so it says it was received beginning of this month and then their response time is the beginning of next month so I have not received anything in email or a letter I don't know if the town has but I would assume John would let me know if they did all right any questions from John our commission members I have several questions and comments um my understanding is that n is having Staffing machines right now and that's why they're running late with responses so uh maybe more than 30 days so you filed an RDA instead of a notice of intent and I'm just curious as to why I could see if you were just doing the garage but you're in the drink so would we entertain a a dock in the drink without an order of conditions probably not and I don't think we ever have that's my first comment second comment is I'm going to ask you to um review the AC EC regulations published by the executive office of energy and environmental Affairs um from what I can tell um you cannot you are prated from building new I will read it for you uh new docks or peers or other water dependent structures in and along Tideland great fonds which when count is um are prohibited without a locally adopted and state approved resource area management plan so when accountant does not have a resource area management plan therefore a doc or a pier is prohibited for the state okay and it's my understanding that the commission has not uh approved a doctor appear on wonet uh in since the last Adrian can remember because it's prohibited because the town does not have and the state does not have an approved um Resource Management plan if that's the case then I assume we remove that from the request regarding the RDA that was uh for a discussion with John it was determined that would be a satisfactory way to file this that was the time the dock wasn't requested by the client but that's what I figured that's exactly I said I can't imagine coming a notice for I without a notice for something in the drink so um so you have to wait anyway um but you may not want to wait the mea um if you want to double check those RS but that's my uh reading of it and I think it's been the town of Norton comc con's position for the last 20 plus years um because we can't approve it because we don't have a resource area management plan okay I I would discuss with the client but I would assume if it's not going to be permissible then there's no point in uh or well if we're just continuing until May 6 perhaps we should and then look into it ourselves but I'm sure you're uh what you're telling me is accurate well you know I'm a volunteer do I happen to interpret legs for a living yes I do um but you may want to look it up give give to your client the um satisfaction of of looking at it yourself but um right I do know that that our prior agent has indicated that she has not and cannot approve something on wion correct one thing I would do is I would look at the simplified um chapter 91 license for docs and peers read through that um I looked through it today it didn't say anything about AC so I have a that's a separate set of regulations John right but for instance when I'm saying is I mean obviously if it's a separate set of regulations and that's the process that we're supposed to go through for the state um for for going through with chapter 91 stuff and it's a simplified then for instance the state for should mention on it if you're within an AC it's not allowed it should just say that and unfortunately I I was not aware of that that was brought to my attention today um so I I actually have a call into the state requesting why that information is not on the simplified chapter 91 form because that would deter a lot of people from misinterpreting this and thinking that it's acceptable oh but what know well so there's there's a digital disconnect I think you're thinking of here because if it's not subject to chapter 91 it can be subject to chapter 91 and in an AC EC so they're not they're not um they're not always in the same jurisdiction see what I'm saying so you could have it in it's in instance chapter 91 is needed because it is a great Pond if it wasn't a great Pond and still in the AC this would still be required right 91's issue it's the AC program getting the word out well then for instance I think both state agencies should be working together and have a comprehensive system and format so that way for instance the simple homeowner if they're looking to know if they need to file then for instance they know that okay if I go to this website it's going to infer that for instance if it's within an AC it's not allowed I just it's not on the form so that's what I'm saying is it should be on the form because that way it's more informative to the land owner so that way they don't run into this issue because I looked all around the states today when you brought this up to my attention and there are a lot of docks around areas in other towns that have docks and peers for the AC within AC's so other towns don't know this either so I guess my concern is who's going to enforce and who's going to manage this as as we move forward is it a dcr's problem I mean that's that's kind of what I'm getting at I I don't know whose authority it becomes um you know and that's where I would question the concerns because if I'm if I'm setting up the legal framework of something I want to make sure that everybody understands that this is the process that needs to be handled and that way I inform the general public that yes this is not allowed because it's within a designated Zone that is supposed to be protected and it's prohibited so I think you know if I'm if I'm sitting the groundwork and Rule work for for setting the system up I think it needs to be handled a little bit better but that's just my opinion I agree the nuances of the right kill you every time well I do have a question also here right is that is that Mr oh Joe or yeah Joe go ahead yep um in our drawings here it says floating dock and our verbage says floating and we were just described as a footed dock so if this is not what Lisa is talking about and it does move forward I think we have some verbiage issues here also because something sitting on aluminum legs on the pond floor is not a floating dog I have a question um although Mr greo has had his hand up for a while but if we're taking uh board uh commission Members First what did we do what didn't uh a young couple who was also on wonet a few months ago wished to have a doc um there were the one the ones next to uh the the um oh you know the restaurant the chatau there was a couple who was building near the chatau and they didn't they want want to have a dock out into winet did and was there some or maybe I think that's the 4 Bay Ro project are you talking about the 38 Charlotte you're talking about the 38 Charlotte project which we just approved right no no there was reference to a uh a house in on a very small area adjacent Bay Road on lake wion and they had requested a removable dock so I'd have to look through records you could have a removable dock well that's that's I believe what this is intended to be as well does not make a distinction okay so we we told them this essentially the same thing then or [Music] I I think we would have to revisit that but you know we we we've got a hairball issue that will require uh this to be continued but uh Mr Greco has his hand up so if if uh we don't have further commission questions we can take that question um so Mr uh Greco you want to ask your question yes hi can you hear me okay we can yeah okay at this point I really don't know what to say to be honest with you folks I mean it's just a removable dock it's 35 feet out every house along this road practically has a dock not everyone but mostly uh so I don't I I get it with the pond and you know I I I went through conservation we're new here in town we moved here in October we want to do everything legally and correctly and as John would tell you we needed a tree cut down in our backyard and we called John John gave us the okay I spoke to him at the time about the dock and he told me exactly what would be good now I'm hearing all of this and it's kind of frustrating um you know I understand the whole thing with the water and the Exotic whatever but it it's totally heartbreaking and I don't understand you know and I'll be honest with you I've had people tell me why did you even bother going to the town but I'm not like that okay I like doing things legal and I'm just really right now frustrated and would like to know what the next steps are and what's going to happen well you know so we don't make the law or the rules we just have to enforce them on behalf of the state and I would suggest that Craig uh do a little more research on this um but I'm reading it in black and white so I I have a I have a call into the state too so don't worry I'm gonna I want to find out an answer because I'm curious because for me as an agent and reviewer if I'm looking at a simplified process on what they're basically telling you know the residential Comm um people online like what the process is and the information is not accurate or it doesn't have enough information to know what what is what is allowed and what's not allowed is is not is not good so I have a call to the state actually figure out what the bottom line is this and hopefully they can address it because in their questions and kind of inquiry section this should be addressed and it's not um so I'm kind of a little frustrated as you are Mr Greco and I I apologize for any sort of uh you know um you know hardship or any sort of kind of frustrations that this has caused you so I apologize no it's it's not your fault John I understand you know people just going to read the laws that obviously the town folk that live on this pond are not aware of but and and it's totally sad um but anyway U for Lisa because you know she's by the book obviously uh but uh my question my next question is where do we move forward with the garage well uh we first we we have to resolve the doc issue because right now the two the two are yeah I know and you know what I was told to do that um you know honestly John and help me out be my backbone here you told me you put them both in at the same time it'll make it a lot easier and and typ and typically that is the case when you do you kind of show the whole entire package to the commission and show them kind of what you're looking to do let let's do this can we take the dock off the hearing and move forward with the garage I would be acceptable to that and we will revisit the dock at a later time anybody that that would um that would resolve the the difficulty right at the moment but of course you have you'd have to submit a uh a modified plan but um we um and and if if the dock were removed this Falls still within the um the egis of a determination is that correct John and that's how see it I leave it up to the commission to decide on that one but that's how I would see it yeah I me I would agree that it's it's dominous it's it's towards the front of the lot and it's uh you know it's separated by the pool of the house from the from the resource area so all right so how about how about if we do this um GRE can you get us a modified plan without the doc being there um and we can consider acting on the determination um yes I can I can get the plan to you tomorrow um so now the question is do we close this hearing or continue it and close the hearing next time and then and then issue the determination next time uh any any comments on the I don't think we can it the way it is because it's it was advertised and it's shown as a as the doc as well so all right so there won't necessarily be a delay if we do it that way um so if that's acceptable to uh the applicant we can continue close next time and and and act on it next time continue continue with what the garage and the dock just a garage well be continued with with the the what we need is a new plan and I think we need some clarification because if what you have the plan just take the dock out of it I I don't understand why do you need to Greg Greg you on here can you enlighten me because I'm totally confused well I just need to revise the plan I'll get that through with them tomorrow and they'll have it for the next meeting you'll remove all mention of the dock in May well see I should have never threw the dock in that's what's aggravating me because the town told me to put the dock in let me ask you let me ask you are you pouring cement in Within These two weeks but for the no we're not pouring anything until so so there's really there's really no delay in in getting your garage done and all we're talking about is is um is completing the the the procedural paperwork and then giving getting you your permit for the the garage okay that's fine and and that would be your next meeting which is May six correct okay that's fine thank you very much have a great night everyone all right there there is just just a note Craig I would let the um I would continue on path with nesap let them review it just in case by some miracle somebody says you you can do this and that way you'll get the feedback from n but also if if you're saying this has to be in the context of a notice of intent as far as the doc goes then then the doc should be removed in any case and yes absolutely what I'm saying is to let the system play out and let me comment so he can be prepared if the doctor comes back so it doesn't hold him up for next time okay no this is for the this is for the do can can I I'm sorry I have one more thing we did receive an email just now just now just now from who Nish shap nesop to review the dock because she's been out of the office sick so something forward on I think uh that has to be taken up with with John so that he can evaluate it and and bring it up in the in the next time but I think for simplification removing the dock because the the dock would require a notice M tent removing the dock still allows the garage to be uh considered as a determination right okay but I'm sorry my name is Sher I'm also the owner of this property and what the interesting part you know moving to Norton just to Enlighten you all um that you know we moved here we moved here on the lake you know to be in the water right as everybody does so I understand the state you know what you have to do to go through the state to get things done but I don't think there's honestly one person on this lake or Pond as you want to call it that doesn't have a dock so that would just you know kind of sticks a knife in your heart to say okay everybody else has a doc but us that doesn't make any sense to me I I have no idea that's not my position that's your position to figure that out and I'm not going to throw people on the bus whether they have one or not in the past 20 years so you know we just moved here last October to enjoy this this Lake and would like to do so all right but but why don't you put yourself in our shoes as citizens of Norton we are charged with enforcing a state law and you can't ask us to say well you can't really enforce it you shouldn't really enforce it fully so that's the position we're we're in um and we do this as volunteers because it protect prot ultimately protects the interests of the town of the citizens of the town to totally get it totally get it but when but when we go to the town and they say hey you should put this and this together you know your garage and your Dock at the same thing because you know a floatable dock you can do yeah that's no problem and now we're getting backl it out all right and and and I'm going to I'm going to ask for a little bit of understanding because as you witnessed tonight um keeping all these regulations from different uh laws because that regulation is not in the Wetland protection act is in a different um legislation um that it can become a mess and so uh you know a little bit of understanding that sometimes a mistake can be made no okay we appreciate it and and really thank you for your time but yeah let's go forward with just the garage and whatever Craig has to do um he has to do and we appreciate it and we will now mute ourselves and be quiet you all have a great night thank you for at least listening to us well uh it's your right to to participate in the hearing so uh all right I think I I don't think there are any further questions if there are speak up but we can now consider uh if not we can consider a motion to uh continue um this hearing for determination 11:38 so second so we have a uh motion by Lisa and I believe it was seconded by Dan does that sound right yes all right roll call vote beginning with uh Dan and Paxton hi hi and uh Joe and T hi hi and Lisa and Mark all and I'll throw in an eye so the motion carries thank you guys thank you thank you [Music] um and so we're now finished with our uh new hearings and moving on toi previously continued public hearings uh next item is file number 250- 11151 300 South Washington Street uh for construction of an indoor self storage facility um they have requested a continu until the 6th of May oh Julian I think there's two before that one well here here in I'm G I'm gonna say and I don't know if this was a a Google Drive issue but on my copy that's the one that's next oh okay so but I I I see at the bottom here we also have 25143 which is 360 wer South wer street is a request for the continuation is that the one that comes up on yours first yeah maybe maybe I yeah I'm looking at the um Department report is that different than the official yeah they they're in a different order on the department Okay so no problem um so 250 115 uh 1151 requesting a continuation uh till May 6 I'll make that motion Mr chair oh second all right we have a motion by Dan seconded by Joe a roll call vote beginning with Joe and T yes hi and Dan and Paxton hi I and Lisa and Mark I I I all three and I motion carries so next on the agenda is file number 2 250 11520 Crane Street Lot B now we previously have taken the other two in one hearing which is 1153 and 1154 which is Lot C and lot D so I think we should probably take all three of these at once as we did before so do we have a representative of the applicant I have a conflict of interest I have to respond okay Mr chair it's Evan wat W engineering representing the applican okay uh you may want to share your screen for the plan and and go ahead with the new information so just a quick update um since we've like well last time we met um we addressed concerns of the D that um about complying with uh work within the riverfront area and we presented our plan as far as what we're looking to do um couple of the comments that we had one was to have it sent out for third party review so we have received a proposal from Pat Brennan and that has been authorized and I don't know if um Megan if you received the check yet but that check's been cut and sent out and if you don't have it I expect you'll get it tomorrow um the other thing that was um we were looking for our application was a assessment whether or not the BB this BBW in the middle here uh showed signs of being a v pool so B Madden of LEC he's um our consultant who flagged the wetlands he has begun that process he went out last week to take a look um there's some bit of standing wire in some spots so he wants one more trip to go out so that we can have a thorough investigation and make sure that we can say that it's not a veral pool um or if it is a veral pool we'll we'll say that it is um so anyways that's the update from the board uh last time I think John wasn't available um so I'd be interested if he had any comment uh that he'd like to add or obviously any of the other our commission members if he had anything to to comment as well well before uh he does that there was also the question of the the common driveway that had to be approved uh I can't recall if it was planning or uh zoning that have to approve that is there any information on that yes so we've filed for that uh there was a hang up with getting a date for that but we're moving forward with that uh the application is in it's been reviewed by um the Departments and we're just looking to get on the agenda for the planning board to have that meeting because that would influence if it were denied it would influence the design in a buffer zone of the of two separate driveways that's really yeah I don't anticipate any trouble with that um but like you said it's uh it's important to have that going currently as well which you know it is uh John you have some comments um so the venal pool assessments are those being done with a dip net is that correct I know he's been walking through um looking for egg masses you know basically investigating all the different um areas that had some pwy water there is a ditch that runs through the middle probably put in there at sometime like in the long ago past um so I presume whatever the requirements are that he's doing it it's uh I I don't know the actual procedure to certify the Vernal pool but I talked to him on the phone today um and I know he was he was in there you know because he told me he fell into a 36 in pool of water in the ditch so he's he's in there doing the thing and what we're expecting is um he's going to issue a narrative which is descriptive of his methodologies and his findings okay yeah as long as he's dip netting that's fine because it's not just egg masses you got for I just have one uh question I believe it was last time we spoke there was a question of whether it was another um possible veral pool on the upper left oh yes so that was right here well again I I presume that it's this sometimes those mappings for the C the potential veral pools just show it somewhere and that's the only um depression on the site and he did look out there and there's no standing water or anything there's no um you know anything to support any sort of wetland vegetation or soils or anything in there at all so and you want to do us a favor and just do an is Cal on that area okay just to just to basically make sure it's not ational resource area yeah I can I'll I presume will be just based off of the Cals that I've done for the proposed because essentially we've proposed to fill that in and more or less move that over on this side um and the amount of water that gets there even in the proposed condition um barely adds any water to that so but I I can absolutely do that and add that with our supplemental material for next time so you're you're claiming that it could potentially be ilsf but you don't want to show it on the plan I mean I would would definitely show that on the plan as a resource area um no no I'm sorry if if it is an ilsf I can do the calculations to to demonstrate that it's not all right okay I was just making sure I was like okay yeah yeah no no no yeah exactly no if if it's I can do those calculations but I was I was my guess is that they're going to show that it's not just based off of what I was seeing in the proposed condition so um but I I'll do that without any issue so if U Brian also went to opine and um include this area in his report because just the presence of standing water doesn't mean it's not a Ral pool or it is a Ral pool the is on lot a um I do can you scoll over to lot a for a minute please [Music] start with l a um so what are you doing for infation for roof run off so let's see [Music] let's go so we've sized the ref front off to accommodate the 100-year storms for the building uh so all the ref front off is going to a ctech drywall and then we've also added a um like a depression here which essentially acts as a bio infiltration area for um basically the drive we would run off and come down into that over Overland okay and this this is part of the noce toot this this lot is um we only filed for a storm water permit for this one we did not um file a notice of intent because there no jurisdictional areas okay so we not showing all that um grading associated with the septic system or the um infiltration trend on the 710 plan then oh I'm sorry yes so this this is the entire plan set so we show okay because we also need we've used the same plan set to apply for Earth removal and our share driveway plan but this plan itself just G gives us a good overall view so here is our um actual site plan lot a which indicates the septic system and the um roof leaching okay so back to the grading uh I think it's the east side of La a is there um if you go back to the other plan it seems to be a tremendous amount of grading on the east side of that lot or what's driving on that well next to the other house oh here yeah yeah yep so the existing grades of this site go up to I guess that's 80 five it looks like um and then on this side you have a high point of 95 but the road is at 77 so this site is really up and down very pit and mount and it's almost impossible to to construct a house um the way it is um we discussed the last meeting that this site was used for Earth removal sometime in the past I I'm not exactly who or what um if it was the state came in and borrowed some material here um but you can see we're at 80 here 95 there so the out you're moving 14 ft of material through there the high point on this hill yeah okay yeah and that's why we had to we're going for the Earth removal PR the plan Point okay so uh moving on to the next two lots um is that an equalizer pipe over the drag yeah so it's a good what B I think it's show yeah I'm just looking at the pipe in between B and C yes so what happens here is we have um all the runoff from the roads on the high off on the driveways rather would come down here and enter this uh depression to infiltrate and then I did put a pipe up high just in case there was like frozen conditions and we had a large rainstorm or whatnot that this wouldn't overflow and wash out the driveway that it could go through the pipe um Although our drainage calculations I think just shows maybe like half a CFS in the 100-year storm like the 8 and a half inch rain event um so again that pipe is really just there for extreme events um just to protect the driveway in those cases okay so if the W does turn out to be a container veral pool then you're probably going to have to revisit that as a point source yeah what I think I would end up doing is making this larger um so that we can expect flow out of that pipe at all okay we have any dis second last question is there a tremendous amount ofing only5 foot no build um is there was there any thought to minimizing the footprint of that grading by putting in a wall um we didn't consider a wall being that we were outside the 25 foot buffer and we could achieve that um and really what we want to do with the Shar driveway is um just avoid having it um you know in thisy in this House's front yard so we moved it away a little bit and it worked well with the grading to to open this area up as well for storm water uh again we have another depression here again an emergency over and pull that grading away if you didn't want to put a wall in correct we could I I presumed it wasn't necessary since we were staying outside the 25 um stay outside the 25 but you all also and always want to minimize your intrusion into the 100f prop even forgetting about the 25 so I would ask you to look at ways to minimize um grading right up against the 25 and also minimize um the grading in the 100 foot buffer and then and that Clos to a wet one um and then the last question I have is on lot uh D with the ribbon fund is that that's the only lot that has the ribbon fund that's correct okay so does the the developer that's developing these or Lots many it is um do they own any of that adjacent land on either side yes no okay okay because that would have changed the way that we put the findings in the order of conditions for um calculating Riverfront area for avoiding you know chopping up a bunch of lots and Counting 10% so okay that's all I had thank you thank you uh uh any other questions from members of the commission or uh anyone in the audience Evan were you going to say something or did I mention yeah I just wanted to mention I didn't forget about your comment the last time about the um the way the the straw WS had to be staked in I just had on my list to do of um will we if we receive comment from the review engineer or you know these comments that we received tonight I can make those at that time but I didn't forget to do it I I just have on the since we have each making some updates to the plan I I left it for that time once we have all the information all right well um as I understand it we need the um information about the Burnal pool information about the finalization of the shared driveway and um this water uh peer review uh yet to to be done so this would require a continuation yes Mr chair I ask that you continue to the next Hearing in May all right well before we do um I just want to come yeah um well there don't seem to be any further questions but we we're actually taking three file numbers you have a question Mr chairman oh we do I'm sorry corupt no not a problem uh so a computer named Neil Deon um what's your question hey how you doing um my question is there's actually five Lots here by the same Builder can you hear me we can okay and the other lot is down the street on down on Crane Street uh to the West uh is that a Riverfront lot also no okay no there's no there's no jurisdictional areas on that okay that's another lot that was have had test pits done in it um is there going to be any accountability for that for the destruction that was done that's s well natural heritage it is so we have filings fill out with natural heritage um there is no um jurisdictional areas on that lot and um the you know test pits are a allowed uh use outside you know especially outside of jurisdictional areas so well with a mini excavator yes also Lot C at the back you have a dry well that's also on National Heritage that's right we we haven't heard back from natural natural heritage excuse me so they um they did cat the check they did contact me asking for uh PDF copies of the plans but I've yet to hear from them so okay that's all I have thank [Music] you all right so um now I don't think there are any further questions um so if we are going I think we are going to um continue this but we'll continue these three files as a bundle 52 5354 uh so uh you can acknowledge that in your motion uh Mr I'll make a motion continue files 11 2 1153 1154 to the May 6 is it meeting all right a motion made by Dan and seconded by second seconded by Lisa so beginning with uh T and Dan hi and we're going to record Joe's vote as an exstension and uh then continue with Paxton and um Tom did I get you in thisne oh Lisa there you go okay so we got an i and then we have Mark as the last so yeah so I guess uh Joe stepping out kind of mixed up my count um all right so uh next item on the agenda so the motion um thank you very much thank you thank [Music] you um we're at 250 1143 which is 360 South wer Street requested a continuation until May 6th so moved second uh motion by Dan seconded by Mark uh beginning with t and Joe hi hi Dan and Paxton hi hi and Lisa and Mark hi hi and I'll thr in and I motion carries file number 250- 11144 uh Z Reservoir Street requests the continuance in May 6 so moved second a motion by Dan seconded by pton beginning with th and Joe how you hi hi hi Dan and Paxton all right and Lisa and Mark hi hi and I'll throw in an eye uh that brings us to request for certificate of compliance for file number 2 50-10 71 Mansfield airport vegetation management so John you you it was delayed last time because you hadn't had a chance to go over it and uh any and to inspect it any comments on that yeah so the um the work efforts that they made were in line with the permit um there was I know obious viously this project went on before I was here um I know the commission was very concerned with the Vernal pool being protected that was on the doll preserve that still is retaining its U its habitat and everything of that nature there were a few trees taken down in the within 100 feet of there as were permitted so that was one of the primary areas that we looked at um there were some other trees that were taken down that were out of our jurisdiction um as part of the project as a followup um which were authorized basically just confirming that they're outside our jurisdiction so um but that was outside the realm of the permit So based on my assessment and evaluation of all the work that was done out there um it seemed to be in compliance with what was originally uh permitted by the Conservation Commission so suitable for a full COC as of right now yes okay uh I'll make a motion to issue a full certificate compliance for file 250 d1071 second we have a motion made by Lisa seconded by Joe uh Tama and Joe how do you vote hi hi and Dan and Paxton I hi and Lisa and Mark hi hi and I'll throw in and I the motion carries uh and then for file number 250-1033 we have a request for a partial C for nine TP Trail um so John um full stabilization has not occurred is that the issue yeah so the the issue is that um Mr Freeman was looking to have it Hider seated but they were on basically back order to have the property seated basically I want to say three weeks ago he's hoping to have a a crew out there this week to get the stabilization um but you know obviously everybody's trying to stabilize their sites this year with the amount of rain that we've had so um he said that he's basically looking for a partial uh for to get that but he intends to basically get a full uh once the grass is stabilized but everything else is is per design per plan so that was what he was requesting so um you know it's up to the commission to whether to Grant the partial I think it's okay because I I feel that you know he hasn't um you know had any sort of occurrences which he's failed basically comply with a lot of the rules and regulations for past projects so I thought it was okay for him to you know make this request um because he's been pretty good with getting in the uh the final coc's so why you looking full paral is it to sell to get some yeah that's the main reason he's looking for to have the sale of the house and as part of their requirements he needs to either get a partial or a full C to get the the sale so he said he in years past started we used to post bonds they used to ask the Africans post a bond does anybody remember that Julian yes I I still I still can remember those days so that's what he actually asked that when he came in he done that well he asked do you want me to write a check for a post bond and I said I don't think it's necessary you know I know where I know where you are in town um but if if it does come to that you know I can definitely knock on his door and um you know ask him to fix the situation but you know I I I I go by reputation here in town I I I know that he's he's a person that lives in town so um you know I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt to to make uh make the process the right way he's you know I know I know he's a local and he's willing to basically make things right if it comes to that so um and I I very much agree with that approach but I mean if you have somebody who has been a person of their word I think we should respect that and oh yeah except like in the case of my house St has a partial 21 years later so now it's left for me to get the fall so just at some point so Lisa I guess I guess the question is when are you coming in for a full CC I mean you're the one who's who's making all these these claims and to all these other people I mean and she she's she's living dangerously on her own property so so my point is I want to make sure that the applicant comes back in and doesn't it to the homeowner at some point that's all because sometimes they just you know the Builder does what they they need to do get person of the house and they don't follow true I think that's probably that's probably about 80% of the time if I'm gonna be honest so who is your Builder oh my lips are sealed okay there we go um all right but I I I think if John feels comfortable with no bond I feel comfortable with no bond here and we can is isue a marshall make that motion um to issue a partial coc for 250-10 one3 second it's like one of those races I couldn't tell who was first but we'll say Lisa made the motion and T got the second um so t and Joe how do you vote hi obain okay and Dan and Paxton hi hi and Lisa and Mark hi hi and I'll throw an eye the motion carries um [Music] minutes so I still I still have a problem with the format here uh Julian what about the uh orders of [Music] conditions well I it must be this wishful thinking the fact that I jumped right over those all right I stand corrected and you know since since I already disrupted the the flow of the agenda once uh with regard to these the the town meeting and in fact it is on the 13th of of May I believe which is a Monday and the reason I got it wrong is because traditionally our meetings have been the second and fourth Mondays of the month um and uh May 6th is the first Monday of the month so so that's why I I misunderstood with that but at any rate town meeting is not going to conflict with our schedule so now um these two orders of conditions which are not just virtually identical they're actually identical ex well I I take that back the the the the headings are are different but U the findings and special conditions are all the same uh we have the the unique items colored in yellow and all of the special conditions nicely organized I still haven't gotten used to this new organization that makes it so easy to go over things sorry for making your job easy Julian yeah I'll I'll try to make it harder next time I tell you it was it was a form of punishment reading the the U orders in without this kind of format but uh any comments questions additions alterations I did incorporate comments and suggestions from the peer reviewer so a lot of those highlighted items were identified from the peer reviewer as their recommendations and they Co coincide with a lot of the other large scale development kind of requirements and conditions that peer reviewers have recommended in the past all right so there's a handup um specifically about these orders is that uh [Music] so U computer was the the name labeled chain do you want to identify yourself and or is that a left over hand up no hi can you hear me we can hi my name is Jan rundi 17 elore Street okay I question that I want to ask about this so I going to thank you for all your volunteer time that you've been working on this I remain very opposed to it for a variety of reasons but I realize this isn't the time or place and I understand from your last meeting and I might have my words wrong that you're going to issue a order of conditions tonight for 224 uh unit buildings on Lots C and D correct that is correct so my question is and my information is coming from town hall from another Department what happens after you issue this which I assume is going to happen tonight should the Builder proceed to go ahead and what you issue does not align with what the Builder's plan or actions are what are next steps do you want me to answer that question I I I guess yes uh yeah go ahead so so here's kind of what happens is that if if for inance the design changes so let's say tomorrow night the planning board wants them to uh REI refine or make modifications to the site plans or design um to meet some other standards or other departments required s certain things the design to change the applicant is required to come back in front of the Conservation Commission if the work that they're proposing is within 100 feet of the resource area um that's being proposed so um the onus is on the applicant to present and make the amendment or request for Amendment um to the commission if they do change the design um from the plan that we're basically uh issuing this evening um to kind of make that uh I guess available to you okay and is that plan available if I were to come down to town hall on Thursday when you guys are open late to see what you're working with versus what I've just received yes yes so so for instance you know what we're issuing this evening is based on a a time frame of plans um so if that plan set changes or is modified um basically the the preconstruction meeting before anything can happen on site before they do any work on site they have to get authorization from every town Department um before basically we can give them authorization to start work on site um that includes the planning Department building department Board of Health um water and sewer uh fire department Etc so everybody needs to sign off on that uh based on the same design plan uh so every plan needs to be C basically be the same uh and if it's not then for instance they can't move forward with the project okay and if the plans differ from the agenda tonight or anything like that then they have to it's on them to go back it's on them to come back otherwise it stalls their project and they can't move forward because none of the plans coincide with each other everything needs to be the same um all approvals need to be consistent to one plan um and all the design work needs to be the same as as basically being approved by each department okay and is the sign and issue order um available for me to look at down there or not so yeah actually so the the process is we'll probably issue the order to the applicant um probably in by tomorrow and it will we'll issue that and we'll have a copy available uh once we submit that tomorrow so I'd say the earliest that we could get something a hard copy would be Wednesday morning um if you're looking to look at it you can definitely swing by our office and take a look at the order along with the plan that we have on record that goes with the order conditions that we're issuing well love to be there Wednesday but my students probably won't me in class or maybe they don't that's that's fine so you can come by Thursday as you inferred so that's fine if you want to basically make an appointment with Megan my assistant uh feel free to call our office okay and how late are you open to on weekday so we're open Monday through Thursday Thursday Thursday being a late day normally it's uh 8:30 to 4:30 but then um um Thursdays we're open till 7:30 and then Fridays it's 8:30 to 1230 okay I'm do I need an appointment to come in Thursday say it like four between four and five I would always say it's probably best to make an appointment because um sometimes I own inspections and if you have any questions I can I would like to be there to answer them for you so if you want to stop by our office it's probably in the best interest to make an appointment I will do my best our school doesn't allow outgoing cell phone calls okay well public school but I will do that thank you very much yeah no problem if you want to email me feel free to do so okay thank you John thank you and I would just like to add that um even though we are voting as a board to approve an order of conditions for this project that really doesn't mean that as citizens of Norton that we think this development is necessarily appropriate or good for the town of Norton uh but our action is within the context of the regulation that the Wetland protection act and the storm water regulations allow and that if we deny such project and it's still uh within um the con the allowable activities in the law then it just gets our our denial gets appealed and the project goes forward anyway so I hope you can understand that distinction no I do very much and thank you again for clarifying it but I've been following this for a while and thank you for for repeat it you know making me understand that thank you all right um I represent the applicant and so I just wanted to say that to my knowledge the plans that we filed with planard are exactly the same plans that we filed with you and so I'm not sure what uh Mr rundi is talking about um and we will be before the planning board tomorrow evening all right okay so so um we have two sets of identical orders uh for for uh two different but identical projects or near identical projects um and I don't know if there are any comments on the the draft that was submitted but if not we can consider a motion to approve the draft as submitted I motion to um issue the draft or uh the order of conditions for file 250-1291 [Music] okay and then Pon and Lisa hi hi and Mark I and Al and I we now have the next set which refers to file number 250- 1130 uh I make a motion to issue were conditions for file 250-1 130 as written second by Lisa seconded by Mark Tom and Dan how do you vote hi I and Joe I'm and Paxton and Lisa hi hi and Mark I and I motion carries thank you very much wel and now I believe we're up through um review draft minutes and so what I was saying before is if we put um the minutes and our agenda side by side you can't really tell they're different until you get down to the spot on the page where it says agenda versus minutes and it it would just be my preference that that that would be evident right at the top of the page so what do you think Dan oh uh well I I I'm sorry to pass the buck Julian but these were written by by um uh well all right it's not it's it's not directed directly to you just as to the commission how do we want the format with regard to do we want it to just stay I think I think if it just clearly says minutes at the top versus agenda at the top that would be that would be useful yeah so I'm actually gonna have Megan strike the uh I guess the top section that normally would be so how it says Norton conservation public meeting minutes notice but then also the paragraph that says no in-person attendance of of of members of the public will be permitted that'll all get struck and uh it will just say um you know minutes of and then the date below a conservation Norton conservation minutes and then the date below so that way it kind of just is a little bit more um informative um maybe maybe could just use my last minutes as a template up to you all right well in any case she's she's revising it right now I'm watching her do it in Google Drive so she's doing it so all right that that's the only comment that I have I see I see everybody else is watching too so no pressure no pressure um any any comments on the text uh there are um well I won't I won't make a joke out of it uh the word towns t n t w excuse me NS should have an apostrophe between the n in the S if it's uh possessive um and oh let's see wait a minute let me pull it up I had it up I still have it up let's see uh I would maybe suggest page numbers because I don't see page numbers on this that might make it a little easier yeah I mean you just overwrote my last minutes just use that as a template um it has page number the the difficulty with putting page numbers is they get corrupted when it goes to Google Drive they do I me we can make we can make a PDF of it but I know some people don't like PDFs well I'm I I have for the time being uh I'm abstaining for the from the time being for for for writing the minutes so that's up to you but I I'm I prefer email attachments I uh Google Drive I nothing against Google but they uh you know the Google Drive you can all attest to it having let us down uh a number of times and uh I don't know I don't even know why we do these uh we do the PDFs um the save paper I guess and save the environment but do they do that saving paper yes I I would hope it's saving the environment it's less use of uh trees no no that's not what I I didn't mean why why do we do the PDFs uh or why do we do I mean what I'm not I'm not expressing myself clearly uh understand that why do we do PDFs instead of Word documents is what I meant I mean I know okay because that's what the way the town hall does it but I would presume it's so that it's not editable after the fact wouldn't that be the case well they certainly got that right yeah and that's that's I mean you keep it in a Word document until you've got it where you want it to be and then you turn it into a PDF for permanency that's my that's my perspective however you can buy I mean it's you know no you can buy for an exorbitant price you can buy programs that allow you to edit PDFs if I am not mistaken you can get ad Adobe Pro and you can edit PDFs yeah that's the that that is exactly the one I meant um but but uh anyway all right well that's I don't know that falls into philosophy of recordkeeping and scope and so do do we have any comments on the text um and some of the things could well I mean you could you you could capitalize commission and plan board but the uh uh I would ask um please put a comma after my last name or just take take away the word clerk up at the top uh either way I don't care um just clerk is not my last name yet um this is probably how people got last names from professions is because way back in the 14th century no one bothered to put a comma that's not this is not true by the way Dan Dan Dan I I just removed it so it's it's no longer an issue okay okay all [Music] right okay uh that that that being modified so he's he's asking for comma I mean we we can we can manage that probably see I didn't have any objection to the content I didn't see any issues with the content of the meeting notes I think that was a that was a move the question kind of statement so let's look for a motion make a motion to accept the minutes so we have a motion by Jo seged by T um T and Joe out your vote hi Dan and Paxton all right and Mark and Lisa and I will throw in an ey so we should be up to I kind of lost my agenda here oh here we go um there must be a report from staff here somewhere um I didn't write anything down but I can definitely talk about it okay uh so I definit I recently I want to say today put in the RFQ for um Rose farm I wanted to reach out to the commission and say that we're active basically actively looking for a suor um over the next two weeks to give us a qualification package uh for um the um Rose farm use um and then for instance what's going to happen next is the commission is going to have to basically write up a lease agreement once we get those folks in so hopefully by uh the next uh within the next two weeks we'll get some uh potential folks that are interested in uh pursuing that opportunity at Rose farm and we'll be able to draft up a lease agreement to um get the ball rolling on the potential use of Rose farm um and hopefully that all can be done relatively soon uh provided that we have um some suitors that are interested in pursuing the farm uh use so I just wanted to give an update to the commission that we're following all the necessary procedures um legal has basically given me some direction um which is helpful uh and then we'll hopefully have uh a formal agreement um hopefully in place um for for next month I hope um to kind of have this all situated and the farm will be basically an operation um just for the use of the farm no community garden use at this time I think that's something that we'll have to look at at a later date um and kind of figure out how that would work uh for us whether we have to pursue some access improvements or something else um to kind of allow for us to have a safe passage uh to the farm at a later date so working on trying to get that all situated um but if anybody has any questions uh feel free to call the office and I can try to answer them the best I can when it going to rain again it seems like it rains every weekend all right yeah uh no other items um the other items to talk about obviously like you just said Julian the amount of rain water's still at the high peaks right now hoping for it to recede hoping for the water to stop uh pouring on us uh so our streams can balance out and we can kind of get back to normal um obviously I'm sure you've heard or you've noticed that a lot of people are complaining and and have concerns about water issues here in town and we've been trying to do our best um from kind of the monitoring side and also the um I guess the highway side we're trying to make repairs and and whatever we can do to the drainage structures to help improve um the systems and whatnot but it's been very taxing on uh the for the town itself trying to make all the improvements especially with the current kind of financial situation we're in so um but we're trying to do what we can with what we have so um doing the best that we can so John did I understand that when when with the rail trail there's not really any drainage being built in for the rail trail as they as they're moving through is that true or not so the the the design that they have shows that they supposed to pitch in in a lot of areas do Overland flow yeah but I think in some areas they had some drainage SES and stuff to capture I think near the road B and whatnot to try to keep the water from coming into the roads I don't know if they've I don't think that they've um started the excavation of those I think their their main focus was getting the pavement down um and then before I guess the freeze and now they're working on doing certain areas I have a a time card list of where they're at right now I think right now they're looking at uh South Washington near the end of it near Crane Street um as of right now they're doing work down there uh from what I walk by there earlier today that's exactly where they are yeah so that that's where they're working this week um but you know there's been a lot of water issues in that area we oh yeah had reports of that area um people are claiming that the rail Trails know impacting their properties and things of that nature and um you know well unfor you're hearing that I'm hearing that from people as [Music] well flooding the flooding it's flooding off into the it's flooding off into flooding it off into their properties and things of that nature oh well that's why they they they rarely ever put infrastructure in the rail Trails that's why you have the gravel um in or grass shoulders it's exactly what that's for used country drainage yeah and that that was the design and I guess in one of the instances that was what was being proposed and and one of the neighbors I guess uh basically made some alterations to the area that was they put in and and um they they were blaming the town for some issues when they um took out a a burm that was put there on purpose and the BM got removed by the landowner and unfortunately um you know that's kind of what happens you make modifications to something that was designed by the applicant's engineer um you're going to have flooding on your property so just curious because I is it still proposed that there's going to be a gravel path on the sides because there's no indication of that right now and just the way it looks it looks like they're picking up majority of the path um with concrete so I'm not sure if that's still in the plane in what St you talking about North Washington Street uh well just the the already existing rail to Trail as the gravel path on like the gravel on the side and I the the shoulder area yeah the shoulder I was under the impression that that would be the entire additional the whole additional path would have that shoulder as well but I'm not sure if that's really the case my understanding is that majority of the rail trail will have that as a measure to attenuate the runoff I I have to double check the plans but it is it is a long stretch so with the horses as as well there there I think there may be a section where there because I know there's a couple stables and horse runs uh in the area as well so I think they were trying to accommodate that Ed to potentially um but there's there's been a lot of feedback back and things that we've gotten from abutters and complaints and things that the town has been trying to I gu you know figure out and uh try to work with the The Neighbors about it but besides that I mean obviously this is probably one of the wetest seasons that we've had in a while um hopefully for it to hoping for it to balance out um and let's see what else did I want to talk about oh there is discussions about the Elm Street Pro project um I guess they're trying to do an extension for the um the sewer um along the road that is coming up um there's a public meeting uh this Wednesday so if you're interested in attending that to kind of engage and understand better understand I think Weston Simpson's going to be giving a presentation um the planner will be there to talk about it we actually have a planner Paul jppy he's back um so if you have any questions or or looking for any input um onto kind of the purpose behind it or kind of to better understand uh the potential use and uses that it's trying to service um feel free to attend that meeting and that's sorry which is this the property that was the old reading uh Barton that is correct yes yeah the old old company that used to do this the silverware and I think they went bankrupt back in I think they started like in the 1800s and they went bankrupt I think late 2000s I don't remember the date what time is that meeting John I'd have to double check I know it's posted on the town's website um but I can definitely send over a link uh to the actual meeting to the commission what's that it's a Redevelopment plan it's a Redevelopment plan and what they're looking to do is they they've got grant funding that they um have secured um to basically uh enhance and uh establish uh upgrades to the um utilities within the street uh they they have a proposed pumping station at near where the library parking lot is over at the intersection of Elm Street and um Route 123 um so it's outside conservation jurisdiction they're going to have to file for a storm water permit uh with with um the planning board um and besides that um yeah most of the work is going to be um you know they're going to have to have everything buttoned up with the the storm are having silt and sediment controls and everything of that nature but um the majority of the work that they're proposing um you know it seems like it will be within the confines of the street from what I've seen the plans for if that changes or modifies I've told them that they may need to come in front of conservation but infrastructure project nothing to do the reading but no but the purpose of upgrading the system is to potentially service the the potential use of so for instance to get a potential devel veler into basically make it more palpable for for somebody that's looking to um I guess upgrade the property for 47 Elm Street yeah so so this this extension goes from uh the area of the library down Elm Street in that direction or from Reservoir Street to it's GNA yeah it's going to go from Reservoir Street going down Elm Street and then my understanding is that it's going go to the pumping station which is near the library and continue going further south under 123 so Sean quick question am I naive or is that going to run into the riverfront issue so it from what I what I've seen is that the work is that they're proposing is already within um a previously Disturbed area um and that's and that's what that's for instance one of the exemptions is that if you can basically um approve or provide documentation that the work you're proposing is with it with with already within impervious surface then for instance it's exempt and you can just basically they could file an RDA if they wanted to I just the the thing is if they go down cross street I'll probably have them file an RDA with us but as of right now I don't think the intent was for them to go down cross street thank you just quick question is there update on the um project that's going in uh uh behind Midway kind of in between um you know the uh police station and North Washington there that kind of big strip of uh land on 123 the Midway on 123 123 I know it was going to the planning board what's going on at Midway well it's just behind that that whole property behind there that um I think we talked about the uh open space committee meeting that there was a um planning board meeting for a lot of the that whole land is going to be developed it is I thought that yeah I think I think it was mentioned at the um yeah it was about like well I don't know if it's all the same I think it is all the same owner but different uh lots lots of land under the same owner um it's like good 35 acres are you talking about the um are you talking about Island Brook is that what you're talking about on 123 or you're talking about near Midway like behind Midway um it might be what you were first mentioning there so Island Brook was a 40b um project uh which is for residential and that one was kind of that Abed the the river there the Rumford River and that is I think it's further east of Midway along3 and I think the challenge that they had was you know obviously it was superseding order of conditions um so we don't have any jurisdictional Authority on that one um but what I do know is that for instance the applicant needs to make sure that they get all the utilities and everything for the work that they're proposing um and I'm unaware as to whether that connection to the mfn the you know Mansfield foxb Norton line needs to you know be anywhere near any Wetlands because if it is and for instance they have to file a permit with us um and that's something that is outside the realm of their superseding order conditions because that was never within the original design so we'd have to basically see and I haven't seen anything um and what I do know is that this was predates the storm water um bylaw I guess it was in before the storm water bylaw so for instance I really don't have any jurisdictional Authority when it comes to the work that they're proposing out there so most of the stuff is going to be through the other departments in town and also the state um but if I do find out that for instance they need to basically file a permit which is going to be within you know disturbance within proximity to another resource area for the for the um utility line um and it's not within a you know previously Disturbed area then for instance they're going to have to file another permit with us so that's that's basically where our jurisdiction would come in if that's the case um I brought that up to D already uh they didn't seem too worried about it so we'll see how it goes there there are several veral pools within that area too all pet on correct yeah there are yeah there definitely are um you know obviously that was I think discussed and ning it out with the commission previously but the superseding order basically takes the project out of our jurisdiction and puts it in the hands of the state um so unfortunately there really is not much that the commission can have have power and authority over for that project if it moves forward they also need to make sure that they get M doot approvals and all the other things that go along with that I know that they just repaved and put in new access um sidewalks through there so I don't know if there's a moratorium on the you know access and tie-ins to the street because of that I mean all that stuff comes into play with how they want to proceed with the project but you know I haven't heard of anything I know that um the applicants representative came into the planning department uh asking for records and things of that nature I don't know what the legal status is of that through the planning board or whatnot but um yeah I I don't have anything else to touch upon but if I hear anything I'll let you know all right so I think we're ready to wrap it up great all right so I'll see you guys in two weeks and yeah all right sounds good do we need a motion to close or we just go ahead and sign Mo motion to close please it makes it easier for Megan I will take that motion I will make that motion close second all right all in favor say I hi all right all right