##VIDEO ID:P7ELjqhbkXo## it is officially 7 p.m. so I am going to call to order our September 9th 2024 fincom meeting good evening everyone Hi Dr O'Neal um good evening good evening uh quickly before we get started I just want to welcome our two new members I see one of them right now um welcome Gavin cabbage um we also have another new new member Brandon Noble I believe he is joining us this evening um so welcome to the fun you're going to love it thanks okay I believe Dr O'Neal is on our agenda first to give us an update on the school budget and see how things shook out over the summer um so if you want to take it from here sure absolutely thanks so much for having me I appreciate it um as I've shared with the school committee at um our summer meetings which typically we do not have summer meetings we usually off through September um but we did meet twice this summer once in July uh following the ballot vote and then uh just again before school started at the very end of August um we've had a number of Staffing changes over the course of this summer um I do have a couple things that I'd like to share with you if um Dr O'Neal could I interrupt you really quick I'm so Rusty it's been a couple months I didn't take attendance can I do that oh no we're good yep sorry I was just chatting away I was like oh no um all right sorry everyone um okay attendance that's important um Kevin bugay I do not see Kevin Gavin hello here hello Gavin Is Here Yeah Trace here right Brandon have you joined Brandon yes hello all right hello wel welcome uh Sandy here bill here here Paul Zach Bonnie here and I too am here all right sorry about that everyone Jen yes you can share your screen I think that's starting to ask one second I'm a little rusty um but let me just I'm G to show share a couple things with you that I've actually um shared with the school committee as well so this is um items that have been discussed during our last few meetings um so we had a number of Staffing changes these are all since our town meeting in May um since town meeting in May we've had five retirements 12 resignations um four requests from full-time staff members to go part-time and then two um requests for a leave of absence for the school year um I think it's important for me to share this with you because all of these took place after we did our budget for that 1% increase so we were not anticipating any of these changes um when we met at our town meeting in May or kind of really leading up to um the end of the school year these um a few of the retirements even came in like a week or two before school started so um sharing that with you so that way you can see what our changes were um a number of these retirements are people that have been in the district for a long period of time um and were at a certain level of um salary um in almost all of these cases we have been able to hire new staff members um at a lower rate of of course it doesn't always happen that way um sometimes you lose a middle school science teacher who maybe has been here for uh five or six years and then you have to backfill them with someone who maybe is not as um inexpensive science and math those are the areas where it's really difficult to find um people especially at the last minute um some of you may have heard that we um even this week or last week we were still missing a fifth grade teacher um we are very happy to have someone in the classroom now with our students this morning um but you really can't predict some of these changes so those are some of the Staffing changes that have taken place since town meeting I've also shared with the school committee um over the last two meetings is that um as we've gone through and um hired new staff members to take over these positions um Christine has been doing an incredible job of kind of keeping track of where we are financially so for example if um we had a retirement where a teacher left and was making $80,000 and we were able to hire someone at $50,000 uh that is a direct Savings of $30,000 um to our budget um as I shared with our families this week um in my first you know official newsletter of the year um any of those changes that were made um we have done within the 1% budget there is has been no additional um spending to our actual budget so when we take a look at what we have available I'm going to share another item with you here um this is the document that we've been sharing with school committee um and it goes through those summer changes so since town meeting these are the savings that we have that were unanticipated savings um I'm not going to walk you through every item I will share this with you Paula um so you have it um But ultimately when we get down to the bottom of our document here um we had a total of $337,500 number of students districtwide that have really significant medical needs whether um they're using a feeding tube throughout the course of the day that requires a nurse to help them um or they um we have many students that have diabetes the nurse is constantly monitoring their sugar intake throughout the course of the day and providing them with um whether it's food or medication should they need uh to adjust um so we were able to hire back that one nurse um additionally we also brought back two par professionals and those were specific to uh student need these were in in both cases students that are brand new to Norton Public Schools um we did not anticipate their specific um learning needs prior to um setting our budget for the upcoming year um so those were two um hires so as many of you have heard me say we laid off 29 staff members um the recall of the nurse and the two par profession brings that number of 29 down to 26 all within that same budget we've also spent $65,000 on network security upgrades um the second to last day of school we had a network issue um in which we had um Bad actors kind of dive in and take over our Network um these security upgrades that you see here are um necessary for us to be back online for this school year and also necessary for us to be able to protect um the personal information of our students and our staff um we're very fortunate that um at this time there was no information personal identifiable information that was taken or published on the dark web um so we're very very fortunate that we kind of got out of the situation um but we do need to upgrade our Network so that was that was done as well um which leads us to about $134,000 of savings that is not allocated at this time um and nor do we really plan on putting that money towards anything right now um as you can see uh a lot changes dayto day minute to minute um so it's my recommendation to the committee that we kind of hang on to this um overage $134,000 that we have um just in case we have other needs that come up through the course of the year does anyone have any questions um about that um Dr O'Neal the 134,000 could that be used as like the contingency um for any kind of special needs changes that are made yeah that's really what why we're saving it Paula to be honest um we can never predict what student needs are going to change throughout the course of the year or perhaps students that may move into our community that we may now respon be responsible for um either fully funding or partially funding their education so um I personally am not um comfortable with really spending any more of that at this time and we will use it for contingencies um as they arise throughout the course of the year um and the other thing that I've shared with school committee you know if I had $330,000 arrive in my you know checkbook this week that would be a life-changing amount but when you take a look at it you know across the the whole $34 million budget it's it's actually not um a lot of money and and it goes quick so we are being very careful about our spending at this time Madam chair sense yes Steve but just on the on the Cyber incident and we had to upgrade our equipment is that a proactive approach or a reactive approach and how do we assess ongoing what we have I know we have a consultant that reviews some information where the schools have their own kind of Department networking Department can you explain a little bit about what the oversight is the review and making sure that we're current in our technology yep absolutely Steve thanks this is actually a really great question um so the way that our network security um has been done in the past we have a team of um four people we have one network director um at director of instructional technology uh we have a network technician and um two Network technicians and a network administrator so you think we have roughly little under 400 staff members we have about 2 200 students it's nearly 3,000 people um every staff member every student has their own device um that's a huge amount of um hardware and software that is the responsibility of our department um we actually lost two positions as part of the 26 that I was referring to earlier that were um technology integration Specialists that worked in classrooms with teachers helping them to utilize technology in appropriate ways um so that's the department and then of course we have software um and other resources to help protect our systems we have a huge amount of personal information that is shared within our systems um um we have a student information system that has student names addresses birthdays parents emails phone numbers all sorts of things um we're very fortunate that the large majority of our items actually live on the cloud so we don't actually host a lot of those things in our own network and that was probably the Saving Grace for this incident was that once they logged in and accessed our Network there wasn't a lot for them to really take so our department has spent a lot of time over the years moving a lot of these things into a cloud-based system number one for accessibility especially during covid um we couldn't access our Network computers when we were all working from home so having things on the cloud was really beneficial um but also for a safety measure for these types of incidents that people can't really access um the net the technology department within Norton public schools has been asking for some of these upgrades over the last few years um this is not the first time we have been hit by um Bad actors as they're called um really these people are terrorists and they are trying to hold our information Ransom um it wasn't the first time it probably won't be the last and I see that because every single time we and I say we as education in general not just Norton Public Schools um this has happened to a lot of my colleagues in other districts every time we upgrade in in in choose security measures that are are more impactful and more difficult to get around these terrorists just get smarter and smarter and they find ways around all of these things um we're very fortunate that we were able to get back up and running as quickly as we did um thanks to Mike and to the staff of town hall um the school in town had an insurance policy for these type of cyber attacks um which was a Saving Grace for us we were able to access our insurance policy we worked with a company that was um able to number one cut off the access to these terrorists um number two help us to rebuild our Network and get um re access all of our information um and access our backup servers um and then also give us legal advice on how we can move forward as well so thank you to Mike and to his team um for you know getting the town itself a pretty comprehensive insurance policy um I have a colleague that they ended up having to handr write paychecks for people for 10 months because they could not access any of their Network any of their information for almost an entire year and they had to rebuild everything um we are very fortunate that that that this was not the case so to go back to your original question um Steve I hope you don't feel like I'm talking you in circles I'm just trying to give you some background um is this preventative or reactive the answer is yes it's it's honestly both it's um updating what we had that was clearly not sufficient enough and also hoping um that the new systems and structures that we've put in place will be beneficial um the department has been asking for this for a long time it's one of those things that um when you have a tight budget it doesn't always get moved to the top we just simply can't go through another incident like that and therefore um looking at the savings that was something that we decided to do and that was my recommendation to the committee no I appreciate it and Mike from the from the claim on the Cyber Insurance perspective was there any concerns about where we were as far as Baseline um from the coverage or the insurance folks um not yet we haven't heard too much in terms of how they want us to move forward I do anticipate that we will probably need to make some changes within the department um in order for us to move forward so for example some of the things that we've done this year that we're starting to implement with our staff is two Factor authentication um so many of you might be familiar with this if you go online to pay your credit card bill they'll ask you if it's you and they'll they'll text you a code um and then you have to enter the code in and in my mind I'm like if somebody wants to pay my credit card bill please let them um but typically they're just trying to confirm your you are who you say you are and so we're doing a lot of that with our staff um and then we um also received a grant for cyber training which it could not be um more timely ultimately we found that this came from a staff member clicking on a bad link so whether it was um in an email where they said hey you know I found this for you you should check it out or it was a bad website or something along those lines um that's why the education aspect is really important and I apologize my dogs are barking no that's good Dr Ral so that was G be my next question how this was found was it a person thing or was it a technology thing so it was unfortunately um an individual clicking on the wrong on the wrong link and um I actually shared um with our school Community last week um as part of the grant process there is something um that um people outside of the education field um could do so I'd be happy to share that with Paula if you guys wanted to in and um share either a go through the training yourself or B um share it with somebody that you know you think could benefit from it um it's a really great free training and um helps you to kind of understand what to look for it's we're all so quick to click a link if we think we know the person um but there's a lot of um people out there that are always you know trying to catch us no I appreciate it because I think a lot of these insurance companies now education is key but to your point I see a lot of them pushing back if you don't have multiactor authentication or dual pushes type things so GL we're going in that direction so appreciate it thank you all right anyone else have questions for Dr O'Neal I just want to share a couple other things with you if you guys are all set with the budget aspect things um but I can answer any questions from there first I Madam I got a couple things on the budget Zach uh Dr W um how are you good how are you good so I did watch the school committee meeting the other day on on the TV and and so and and on a side note somebody needs to fix the audio because it's almost impossible to try to make out what you guys are saying uh on those on these I'm not sure if it's the media center or whoever's doing it but but we're actually um through the kindness of uh Mr units we will be using the um New Town Hall conference space um in a few short weeks so hopefully um that will be a better a better Dynamic for everyone listening from home we'll do our our tour of the schools first and then um we'll be at um the new town hall well that would be great hopefully uh they did a good job and spent our money wisely we get a high def uh Dolby audio uh Acoustics anyway I saw your meeting the other day and you know I for for me for me we just had an election I think the people spoke loudly resounding margin that they want us to live within the budget anybody that in town that hasn't heard that I think is probably toned deaf um but and then I said we we had $350 savs and I was to be honest with you disappointed that we brought anybody back I mean that the the the most you're going to get if you're lucky is 3% next year so we're bringing these people back back in order to lay him off in the spring most likely unless some Act of God comes and bails us out um I'm not sure why we're doing that uh to be honest with you for me I don't think you know I think the people have spoken and I don't even though you know I agree with everything you're saying but the budgets Cuts weren't deep enough to begin with I mean people spoke loud and clear start to rip off the Band-Aid restructure to what deliver what the voters as for and I'm just here just kicking the can down the road again by saying all right we got a couple bucks and as you said earlier 150,000 cushion is absolutely nothing in a $35 million plus budget it's I mean it's not even a rounding era and we're bringing people back in order to go through that drip drip drip again in the spring which I don't think it's fair to the employees I don't think it's fair to you and I don't think it's fair to the town's people I think it's people have spoken rip the bandaid off adjust to the budget and hand knowing what your contractual obligations are what your steps and lanes are going to be and if somebody retires well then you can deal with that at that point but you know I I just don't believe in running a budget right to the scent when you you don't next check's coming from and that's my two cents I appreciate that and and honestly I I couldn't agree with you more um when it comes to those two par professionals um we don't have the choice right those are specific to student need um a student comes in from another Community they now um are Norton resident they have in their IEP that they need a onetoone par professional for whatever reason we had no flexibility in those two positions at all the only position that was a choice to bring back was that District nurse um and I think that in the spring we're going to have to look very carefully at what our budget is and what our numbers are um because ultimately I think we'll have to cut something else if we do not have the funding to keep the nurse because I really am concerned about the student health and safety without that extra person um it is very very difficult for us to find substitute nurses it's number one it's very difficult to find substitute teachers I think we might want to start thinking about um the whole jury process how people are um you know summoned to jury duty we might have to start summoning people to substitute teach across the country because we cannot find people to sub um it makes it even more challenging when you're looking for a specific skill set for example in this school nurse um we have nurses who have obviously their own medical needs their own family commitments things come up from time to time and we have students that it's not safe for them to be in the building without a school nurse and so therefore um that makes me really nervous because then if we call a parent and say hey the nurse isn't here it's really not safe for your child to be here we're denying them access um I think that's something that we've had a lot of conversations about within our leadership team um and we also understand that potentially we would have to look at what else could be eliminated in order to save that position moving forward um but I couldn't agree with you more um that cushion is extremely small as you said it makes me um nervous that that's what we're looking at right now um there have been comments requests why didn't we bring back World Language why didn't we bring back band why didn't you know I mean you guys see social media right um I can back the nurse I can feel good good about making that decision I can defend it because I really was concerned about the about the students health and safety um I can't do that right now with any of our other positions I agree with you 100% with you're saying I always said many times in this committee you know people disagree with me which is fine is the protection of life and property should always be first and that's why I back not that you know I anything against the schools I as you know I have a child in the system and my wife's an educator but that your know always comes first and I would argue that that position should have never been eliminated to be begin with something else and again I don't get involved in the day-to-day operations of your school I got enough of my own going on to not know what's going on there if if that was priority it should have never been uh uh eliminated to begin with something else should have been uh foro but one other question I have on budget and then we can move on is because somebody asked me about it is the train project that is completely done now with completely everything's running solar we're 100% um so I would say we're roughly 96% um there is a very small punch list so to speak of things that need to be updated or um brought to you know full completion um the project is considered substantially complete so for those of you are who have been involved with building projects in the past you know substantially complete is that big check mark um there are very small things that are are still on that list um but all of our solar panels are up and running um we are online with all of that all of our systems are online there are just a few things that need to be completed um with So Christine and then Wade lazat who is our director of facilities are working on that list with train and um we should have an update to 100% completion in the very near future okay so on the budget end of that it was sold to us and not only us but the community as cost neutral that whatever money we put in it would be it would be we get it in savings so the town borrowed money to do all these projects the town is paying back the notes how is that how do we square that accounting is that coming of the school budget and going back to the town how is that all how and how that's a and the B part of that question is how are we assuring that the so-called guaranteed savings that they had promised are actually being seen um so that's kind of a multi-step answer and I'm G to give you the best that I can give and then I'm gonna let Christine jump in where I where I forgot certain things um and you know full disclosure we both inherited the train project and weren't involved with some of the um conversations at the front end so we're catching up a little bit too um so ultimately at the end of the year um we sent back um a large amount of funding to the town um as part of our end of the year funds and I'm gonna let Christine give you the number because I don't want to misspeak and I have a number in my head but I'm not exactly positive if that's it um to the town um as part of our savings in utilities additionally um we receive checks from the solar at the LG north um so those checks come in um I believe on a quarterly basis those are immediately signed over to the town um and Mike and James process those as part of income on the town side the other four buildings um the way that those are Run is it is um credits that sold is transferred into credits uh Christine and I met with Mike and James last Friday we had a great meeting um and one of the conversations that we had was um we have a lot of credits as a community we have the solar credits from the town the school project we have solar credits from um the other solar place that's over Clap Street I believe does that sound right oh Mike you're muted I think it's the one in Hill Street yeah the Hill Street I don't know why I always say clap street thank you but yes so what we're trying to do as a team is look into ways that we can um monetize some of those credits moving forward and that's a process that will you know be under Mike and James supervision and you know all that money goes back to the town regardless of of kind of what it's happening um in terms of the guarantee um that is something that um once everything's 100% And we have control over all of that that's when that guarantee kicks in so it's a little bit of a longer process um Christine do you have the number on what we gave back in um end of the year funds um we gave back sorry didn't I wasna say was it 280 um it plus the prior incumbrance it was 316 I believe so that went back as part of our you know closing the books at the end of the year okay one final question regard to student head count I see a lot of building what does that look like this year I mean not school choice I'm talking about local kids is that up is that down um it's actually pretty consistent um we did see um a small drop off our official numbers are October 1st um so once we have those October 1 numbers and I've shared those with the school committee I would be more than happy to share them with the fin committee as well um we are anticipating um some students coming in once the Norton links um complex is finished I believe those are supposed to open um at the end of this month or early October we are anticipating some students there um there is a lot of building nothing's finished yet um we did have a few students leave um which is not surprising when you think about you know outcomes of overrides people to to move on um but we're pretty consistent in the 2480 range thank you thanks okay anyone else have any questions Madam chair yes Steve is this a time we can ask questions regarding the uh financials that were provided to us I think it was last week for the 6:30 numbers so just just looking through and trying to again understand how the budgets work I noticed several accounts that were overdrawn and I'm just trying to understand one is potentially why they were overdrawn two is are they because of this type of funding that we don't see the transfers from Reserve funds grants Etc and then if that's the case when would we see those or detail those transfers so for instance I'm looking at Department share stiens if you could tell me one what that is and then it's overdrawn or credit balance in the account of Almost $46,000 Is that intentional or is that something we're going to be funding or transferring from some other Reserve fund um so ultimately all of the transfers that we do are internal um we will um that bottom number always will the same unless we come to you at fall or town or Springtown meeting and ask for supplemental um and what we'll do is we'll say you know this is for special education um out of District tuitions we need $340,000 and those are funded directly towards those lines any other transfers that take place during the course of the year um are approved by the school committee at one of our meetings um and typically those only take place if we move between like for example special education and general education um Christine could probably give you a much more um detailed understanding of that that's why she's so awesome in my sidekick um but ultimately uh the department chair team the department chairperson stiens those come from the high school um many high schools have department heads that oversee their um content area so their role is to um be the leader of that department support professional development curriculum alignment writing curriculum um grading practices and policies uh for the FY 24 year those positions were reduced um and then we came to an agreement with the Union um to reinstate them those positions no longer exist those were stiens that were eliminated as part of the um FY 21% um so those are not budgeted for this upcoming year um I did try to work with the department heads in teachers unit to find a way to bring those roles back without compensation um without financial compensation um we looked at ways that I could provide them with IND District credits um or something along those lines but ultimately we we couldn't come to an agreement without a stipend so um Zach that was a situation where I had to put my foot down and just say unfortunately we just can't afford it so um that's what that role is Christine do you want to add anything there um the reason that line was in the red was because the end of FY 23 for FY 24 we did cut those positions and then as Dr said we uh reinstated a portion after agreement with the Union um so that's why that account ran into the negative and the larger transfers um between not just um general education special education we provide you and the school committee documentation between salary and expenses as well okay so again it was just from a strategic standpoint you thought they were gone so I I understand that part of it now so and then the other one is sub substitutes can you tell me a little bit about the strategy there where we didn't budget so we we have an overdrawn of $67,000 what was the strategy there and where we didn't budget what we thought we're going to use even compared to previous years is this one of those that's going to be funded by either reserves or grants or this is kind of the way it works so substitutes are the most challenging um I'm actually that's not true substitutes and out of District tuitions are the two most challenging things that we try to budget for each year um it it really varies year-to year based on um just staff need um we at times have um a year with a significant amount of Parental leave um where you're paying a teacher who has their sick time um their time to be home with a new child and then you're also backfilling that position and um making sure that we have someone in front of our students as well it's very similar to the O those overtime accounts for police and fire um that it's it really depends on um specific circumstances each year additionally um in years past when the budget needed to be balanced the subline was was a place that we could cut and always backfill with school choice um we're always going to need substitutes I don't know that we'll always have school choice So Christine and I have made the conscious effort each year to add a little bit more to that line to try to make up that difference um and get to a place where we feel more comfortable with what that number is in the budget so we do not have to rely on school choice as much as we have in the past but that's where it's been backfilled from okay thank you and then professional development can surprised me that it was overdrawn $22,000 um is that again a strategy or is that something that occurred we W anticipating so as part of my previous role um I led teaching and learning for 12 years and I provided and designed all the professional development for the entire District um we have never had a professional development budget the only money I ever had the ability to spend was funds that we received from our title 2A Grant um when I first took over my role back in 2011 it was roughly about $80,000 um and it shrinks every year I think this year we about 52 53 um so that is something that um we don't have we just really don't have a lot of money for professional development um ultimately that was backfilled with school choice funds we had a need for specific training for teachers um that we were no longer able to use that grant for just because as I said that that amount gets a little bit less and less each year um and we have used some school choice school choice has actually been great to help us with some of those professional development needs um and that was what how it was backfilled there as well so when you say about using school choice does that mean that the school choice funded this so it's really a zero net effect or is it still a credit of 22,000 um ultimately when those lines were overdrawn we may have moved them from another line to you know to backfill that um but ultimately if the funds don't exists it always comes from school choice okay and just want to go forward right just trying to understand and for an educational purpose as we move as we transfer from one line to another it would be really helpful if we were informed on when those things happen just to understand again the school budgets yep and I appreciate that and so what we do as Christine mentioned when we do those major transfers we do um share all of those with the school committee um and as the governing board I always think it's important for them to see those things first and then we can we can um include them as well with our monthly updates uh to the chair Y no it's great because I think we we have kind of overlapping responsibility so we need to understand it so I have no problem when it comes just in information is definitely helpful absolutely and I appreciate all the questions I I think it's really important for us to um have this back and forth dialogue so that way everyone kind of you know understands the process and and the Dynamics because it it is extremely multifaceted um so thank you no no and I appreciate that because that's one of the things from we want to understand how that school budget works it's the biggest one and I think we we have to dig into a little bit to understand it so that's why so all these questions I apologize but it's an education process so I appreciate from both of you um another one I'm just extracurricular salaries it looks like it's the middle school and the high school between both of those it's overdrawn 68,000 can you tell me what what is that what are those okay so those are clubs and activities for students so for example um also um like if we have um an art club we have um student council all of these things our students pay fees to participate excuse me um in any of those activities before after school at the high school level our teachers have contractual um stiens that they earn for advising those um those clubs so what happens is that we collect a fee and then whatever isn't whatever the fee doesn't cover we backfill as part of the budget so have a child no please go ahead so in essence this this 68,000 is what we couldn't cover by the fees this is the net yeah that's correct and then also if we had instead of doing at the end of the year for that example a transfer that then we would show we had money left over inste another salary line but there was you know there's so many accounts there so many transfers you're probably not going to do um I've been a little bit tighter on the accounts um a lot of times they're reeling the negative or reeling the positive but um knowing that we had money left over in other salary accounts that kind of helped offset so we knew that things were the es and flows of the salary accounts of people going out on leave not backfilling or um someone leaving same in the spring not back filling then we were able to not we were able to run that in the red so it looks a little more not as pretty but that's kind of where that mindset went with that particular one and so as Dr andell said whatever we don't cover with fees um we were hitting the budget and that was another one of those that we um over the past several years before that they would um try to Lop off the top when they did the cuts to reach the percent no again I think it's important to understand the strategy and how these reports are actually showing and what we do with them and then my just my last one on this I'm just curious for the custodial salaries right it looks like it's overdrawn 22,000 what was the driver of that and one thing that really I was interested it's not a tall or large dollar amount but custodial admin travel overdrawn 3,000 if you could explain one is what's driving the the overrunning custodial salaries and then what is that what's a custodial admin travel what's it for um okay so custodial is another interesting one because of facility rentals so for example um we if we have a basketball league come and they're using the yell gym they are paying um a rental fee to us to use the space because number one we need to have a custodian um on duty on Saturdays our buildings are not open on the weekends otherwise um so we need a custodian to be there it's a 4-Hour minimum just like a police detail um and those rentals cover the cost of um opening the buildings and having the custodian available so often times those facility rental fees go into a revolving account and we're able to move those back and forth um to to make sure that you know those are covered but we don't always you can't anticipate how how often people are going to be renting out the spaces um we've in the past we've we've been really um collaborative with our local um with with our local organizations and trying to give them the best rate we possibly can um but that gets back filled from the facilities revolving account the second question about the admin travel so we have a director of facilities Wade lazat um just like Christine or myself he has meetings that he has to attend um they might be out of District sometimes they might you know whatever that may be um and we often when you're looking to try to balance the budget you're you might not account for that as because it's as you said earlier it's a small item um and then you back fill with facilities revolving as as things come up okay right thank you both appreciate of course of course um and I just want to comment on the what Christine had just said a minute ago she was talking about how sometimes we have salary savings at the end of the year so just the way I showed you that list of all those Staffing changes that have taken place since town meeting um those things happen during the during the course of the year as well so a great example is uh last December we heard from a high school um staff member that they were going to be retiring in March and so we couldn't have planned for it the year before we had budgeted for this person to work with us through J June 30th so um getting a day-to-day sub from March to June at $100 a day is is definitely less expensive than paying this um individual who has been teaching for 30 years um their salary so that's where those um funds come from and Christine in her office do a really great job of tying all those things up at the end of the year and putting them towards things like stien or overtime as as we are able to um you know account for that thank you so much Dr O'Neal course can I one other thing to you before U we go um I just I know that um upcoming town meeting we have um a warrant um for the msba um for the Massachusetts school building authority um to take a look at repairing the roof at Norton Middle School um the school was completed in 1998 um which means that the roof there is now over 25 years old um for those of you who have been in town for a while um you'll know that we have had issues with that roof almost from day one um in the early to mid 2000s um there was some concern about um ice melting and know kind of sliding down some aspects of the metal roof and what was done is um holes were drilled into the metal roof to install um almost like little tacks which would break up the ice and allow the ice to melt um not in large sheets um they were really afraid of it falling and hitting kids um so they installed these TS and what happened is they voided the warranty when the roof was drilled into it so um I can't control any of that none of you can control any of that but we get to live um with the ramifications of those types of decisions um so we have um put together a warrant which would um ask the community to approve the funding for just for the planning um the systematic design phase um we had um the mass building authority out here a couple weeks ago we walked Wade and I walked on the roof with them um and there's definitely a lot of places where we're having some issues um we've done some patching over the roof it's the rubber roof the large majority of it is is just a rubber roof you can see the patches we do have um like aesthetic areas which are metal um which is is um just rotting and just um covered in Rust um so that will come forward we are not anticipating the systematic design phase to be very costly and we actually think that this potentially could be something that um we're able to fund through our facilities revolving account however we need to have that item on there um as part of the process um we will not know if we've been accepted into to um the msba um repair project until the end of October so I just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of it I know um Mike is aware Nick as our chair is aware and has been involved in those conversations um so I'm happy to answer any questions about that as well do you know what the estimate is right now for the design phase um we don't it's it's roughly um I'm going to guess 20 to 30,000 um but that is our our estimate at this time um we're anticipating the roof itself being about 4 million that's my my I went to school to teach second graders how to read that's my you know rough estimate for you based on the work done so far so you think the revolving account would end up possibly paying the 20 to 30,000 for the design phase but then hopefully we would have to have conversation we would have to get Town committee approval in order actually do the repairs um and the reimbursement rate is about 58% currently okay anyone else have questions about this um Warren article Madam chair yes sir so the remaining roughly $2 million uh assuming you get approved is that something uh we're going to be looking to fund through a debt exclusion not to put any more buring on the budget Mr units crickets I hear crickets or capital I I would not look at it as a debt exclusion but we would borrow it this wouldn't be a capital or could be able to come from the capital budget at all it would it we would go through Capital but still would are um it I think it is important for everyone to know that um the schools have gone out for this project multiple times over the last several years I think Joe and Wade went out for it at least twice during their uh 10 years together and we were always turned down because of the age of the roof it has to be at least 25 years old before they will even consider it um so this year for us is 26 um and it it it really definitely is going to me it um the the town town meeting would need to approve the full amount once we know what that is and then um we would go through the reimbursement process all right anyone have anything else for Dr O'Neal before we let her enjoy the rest of her evening Madam chair can I just jump in quick yeah Nick go ahead um just while I have the whole fincom here um I feel like you know obviously we're going to be approaching a budget season a lot quicker than uh we would all like to probably agree with um however I just wanted to say you know I know kind of at the end of last year we kind of got hit with a few things that came up kind of late in the game if you will um from you know asking from fincom or whatever um if we could whatever you guys you know need from us you know the sooner you get it to us the better um obviously we start our budget process you know usually late January early February you know we're kind of you know crushing through it as we go um so anything that you guys need that if you're going to put together something you know for all the other departments and you know or you'd really like to see from the schools um you know the sooner you can get it to us the better I think it would just help us uh and then obviously help with our collaboration here moving forward yeah definitely I appreciate that Nick I know there was one thing that we discussed as a committee kind of late in the process I'm sure you remember we were looking for um a similar breakdown to salaries and Longevity and incentives similar to what we see from the other departments um so yeah looking forward to next year I know that that's one thing on our minds that you know we'd like to see um in that way when the budgets are presented to us like a quick cheat sheet for us but definitely I think definitely help the school committee for sure and I'm assuming it would help uh Christine and Jen as far as you know actually presenting the uh the the full budget Paula we did share that salary data with you this summer and I just we would create something similar and so if if the committee is looking for something different than what we shared with you this summer please let us know and um we'll figure out what we can do yeah and and and I looked at that one so I will work with um the town because there is a standard template that lists all the different the different um components of pay and what you sent was Baseline salary and I think the comment in there was these are in the annual report and we're looking at it from a budget perspective for the current year not historical salary data lump sum we're looking at the components so it'll be base pay longevity incentive pay very similar to what every other Town department has there is a template that Mike could probably share and yeah and I um I know and I don't want to speak for Christine here but um the way that their system sets up sets it up is very different we need to hand enter all of that information we just can't download it so um the way that our internal system works with the pay role it's it's just very different um so if whoever has that template could share it with us sooner rather than later that would be really helpful Madam chair yes Zach uh Dr anal does it make since I mean for us every other department comes to the committee and they present their budget for their individual Department you're kind you and Christine are kind of doing it for the whole for the whole school system which which is 80% probably when you f 80% of the budget when you figure in fix and shed and everything else I would like to see personally each individual principal come before us and present their budget for this school to say okay uh I'm the principal of the JCS last year I had I don't know 27 teachers five math three janitors this year I need this this was my headcount last year this is my head count this year I think not only does it help explain to us what exactly is going on but it kind of is kind of doing you a favor too by holding them accountable let them know they're under the same microscope that you are whether that's doable or not I mean I you I would like to see an Administration budget JCS Middle School yell onward and so forth them come before us and present the budget it is you know I was say you at the log budget and you know this committee spent five meetings talking about the dog officer for 10 grand or something and we spent half a meeting talking about the school budget um so that's what my particular view would be and I don't know how anybody else feels why don't I talk with Christine and with the school committee to see what what makes the most sense um when we're looking at our budget the large majority of items at the building level it's it's all Staffing um especially when you consider um what we use school choice for is a large portion of our curriculum any materials and supplies none of that is built into the regular budget at this point um that's all been cut over the years but why don't we you know talk about it and and figure out the best way to make um make it work for us and make it work so that the finance committee feels like they have a better understanding of um where it's all going I know one change we oh sorry Zach I know one change we are going to implement for um when we're being presented the budgets is the school department is going to have its own meeting with the finance committee as opposed to um your department being shared with other agenda items you will be our only agenda item that night um because it's just so much to talk about and um I think that we need to be dedicating more time to your budget um so I know that's something we discussed over the summer as a committee and I know we will make that change and whether or not it makes it feasible for the principles to join us that night um I think that would be your call and the school committee's call but yeah thanks we appreciate it I think we've still got to be sensitive to the fact that the total school budget is a consolidation of all the other school budgets so there'd have to be a vetting process within the school district that they're aligned to what principles are presenting and I don't know how much complexity that adds to their budget in process all right anyone else okay well thank you for joining us your night isn't too long um we appreciate no I think I think this was going to be the longest portion so have a great night thank you all all right thank you okay Mike next up town report submission just um wanted to know uh the town report submissions due by the beginning of October um usually what you put in the town report is what you had uh for the Maytown meeting so I don't know if you want to look at that and then decide what you want to add or not to that okay it's due what it say the beginning of October October 1 October 1 okay okay and um the other other item is um the designation designation of a capital Improvement representative from the finom uh was there someone representing from the fincom on this committee previously Zach you yes I I've been on it for a few years I'll stay on it if nobody else wants it anybody else want that job oh I think it's Zach's have no one wants to fight him for it all right Zach do we vote you Che okay all right I make that as a motion Madam chair sure is there a second second all right Bill okay uh Kevin Kevin you you with us all right Gavin I Steve yes Tracy yes Brandon yes Sandy yes bill yes Paul yes Zach you want to vote for yourself abstained okay Bonnie yes I two of me yes nine yes one obain all right Zach the job is yours okay next up the real fun y reorganization so I've had so much fun this past last year with all of you being the chair um but I would like to end my time for now more years more years um but the job is really fun so I'm gonna SE give you the Hard Sell on how fun it is to be the chair of the finance committee in the midst of an override year but um and doing three budgets um so that being said um we're going to open the floor for any nom ations for chair or vice chair um I'll start I nominate s Sandy allad for chair I second all right anyone else I make a motion for Paul sler all right Paul any right anyone else throwing their hat in the ring or we going to send this to a vote Madame chair yes Paul I would respectfully decline as a junior member I thought this was gonna be so fun I I was gonna start you know moderating a debate but thank you Stephen Zach okay anyone else hearing none the chair would entertain a motion to vote Sandy allad in as our next chair of the finance committee so moved he second wonderful Okay Kevin no Kevin all right Gavin yes Steve no okay Tracy yes Brandon yes Sandy obste Bill yes Paul yes Zach yes Bonnie yes I two am a yes eight yes one no one up obstain Okay sandy congratulations the job is yours but she needs a vice chair people so all right looking for another volunteer I re pauler if he'll take it okay nomination for Paul anyone want to second that second awesome anyone else throwing their hat in the ring for vice chair equally fun job really is okay all right we will uh I Sandy you're now the chair so you could entertain the motion motion for fall as Vice chair second I need a motion first right oh sorry so moved so moved and second all right I'll take a roll call Kevin is Kevin on or no I don't think so he left I don't see him I'm on yes here oh he Gavin yes Paula yes Steve yes Trace yes Brandon yes Bill yes Zach yes Bonnie yes and I to I'm a yes congratulations congratulations Paul thank you and the only other thing on the agenda was um to decide whether you're gonna continue to meet um in person or continue to meet remotely yeah I I decided to put that on the agenda I feel like every year since covid we've been just kind of revisiting this um for our first meeting so I found it appropriate for us to discuss it again there's some new members um if anyone has any comments what their preferences um it sounds like we have a fancy new town hall that we could possibly meet in right if we want it to meet in person Madam chair yes Z although I like the convenience of the zoom it's much comfortable here at home I think the people spent 35 million or whatever it was for a town hall uh I think we've uh overstayed our welcome here and uh I think we need to go back in person I just think I just think that's as comfortable as this is here um I just think that's how Town business should be done and every other committee should pretty much doing it except this one as long as we can still wear our PJ pants in person can I can I just make one other comment yes so the town hall we won't be in the new town hall until the 23d and I would give it a week to make sure everything is running appropriately so I don't know whether you want to continue remotely until the 30th of September what is everyone else thinking about we've heard from Zach but remote versus inperson possibly starting September 30th sorry Sandy I was kind of just because this was my agenda item okay sorry I'll my opion that that I do agree with going back to in person now that we have a a location I know that was a big issue before the location we didn't really have a great one now now that we do I do think that meeting in person is has its benefits I just I want to ask too so this would mean there would not be a hybrid option for members correct like either you're meeting in person or you would be considered absent correct um that's up to you to to you have to decide that you still could have a member participate remotely the chair can't whoever's chair in the meeting has to be in person would there need to be a certain number I'm trying to remember would there need to be a certain number of members in person a quum there would need to be at least six then in person but those remotely would be able to vote they would okay they wouldn't count towards the Corum Mike why wouldn't they count towards the quum well you should have a quorum in person Mike is that should or required that's not required no and you know really if you're GNA meet in person the remote should be in um an exceptional situation yeah I would hate to be that Sandy would be the only one showing up in person would Paula wanting to stay in her pajamas be an exceptional reason like no no I'll just be in my pajamas in person you guys are gonna have to deal with it Madam chair whomever that yes um thank you Sandy um just speaking for myself I think it's um been really helpful for my own personal reasons um to be remote and we get all the business done that we need to get done it's accessible to the public um when we were in person of course we didn't have a lot of space but we did have some space we didn't have um a number of attendees and we've basically had the same uh remotely so um if just stating the opposite opinion I just would prefer to stay remote Madam chair Madam chair I think that was Steve first that was Bill first sorry oh okay Bill sorry um and I'm not chair geez I'm gonna mute myself Madam former chair um somewhat echoing what Bonnie just said taking into account that the fall is a short season and we're already being told well you got to cut out certain weeks I say start this for the spring and just stay remote for the fall because it's only going to be one or two meetings once the town hall is up and running and ready ready for us so I'd say just started in the spring and I I'm kind of a little bit in between I think to require in person but I also think we have the techn ology to make it work so if somebody has to be remote it should be accommodated so Madam shair Kevin go ahead I agree with Steve I mean I think most of us in the Private Industry now you have meetings where folks are remote but people are in person and if we can accommodate both I think that's the ideal situation not be hamstrung by an in-person Quorum necessarily that would be the ideal state for me I think you do lose something by being fully remote but you definitely if we don't have to limit flexibility why would we Madam chair or former chair Bill th this could be a a more of a question for Mike I remember was it a year ago year and a half ago when we kind of we tried to do some of both and and the technology at the time was just so bad that there was you know echoing and this and that and the other thing are we assuming the new town hall has figured that out and that wouldn't happen if you were doing a hybrid meeting yeah definitely um I don't know where why we were having those issues because like the select board has a hybrid meeting at the uh Senior Center have no problems but the town hall all the conference rooms are set up so that we can zoom from them anyone else with thoughts Madam chair excuse me did I say it right am I doing it right yes want to make sure I'm not screwing anything up um I uh I too am from the Private Industry and I I manage a group of people and I'd say hybrid is by far I think you'd get uh I know you said you'd revisit this every year but I think you'd get uh more people interested in the finance committee with the flexibility um you know and I I don't really think it takes anything less from uh you know if you have an impers meeting vers hybrid so I think I would agree um with the hybrid approach personally any other thoughts so I guess I'm not um trying to figure out which way people are leaning in terms of the motion do we want to wait until the spring do we want to move ahead now um I would agree when I when I said that I was in favor of going back in person I I don't have an issue with with having people remotely um zooming in Zach I don't know how you feel about that because you also were in favor of in person are you okay with a hybrid uh I would be as long as it's not me and you Sandy sitting there looking at each [Music] other if you know I understand people travel and you know or they got kids you know everybody's busy I I get that but you know I would think a hybrid's fine but at least half the people should show up I mean I mean if it's you're going to be remote 100% of the time um you I just don't think you know that's right I think you know people collaborating with each other look at each other face to face we've been you know I've been uh doing this I don't know how many years I've been on now but it's been always this I mean I don't think we've ever other than the joint meetings we've ever sat in the room together and actually had discussions other than through the computer but Madam chair Paul um I I'm I guess I kind of want to Echo Bill's suggestion about waiting until we reconvene in I he's saying spring but I'm going to say winter because I think we need to start U meeting about the budget earlier um but I think think you know starting not until September 30th and then possibly only having what like two weeks of meetings and then what if there are technical issues or whatever we need the time for those meetings to do our business and go through the articles I don't want half the time spent dealing with technology issues um so to me it makes sense to wait until um January um and then you know giving a hybrid option would be nice as well for those that wouldn't be able to meet and person for work or whatever reason and that was my intent not not like May what does everyone else think about that option Madam chair hi TR hey I agree with Paula January I'm fine with going in person I like the face Toof face collaboration I do feel something gets missed when we're at home do we want to take a vote now to start in January or do we want to wait until January to take that vote mam go ahe again I suggest we uh wait until January when the weather is a little bit different before we vote on leaving the house I just want to say welcome again Gavin glad to be here thank you thank you anyone feels strongly that we take a vote now I do you want to take a vote now Steve I do okay um what what would you like to take what would you what would your motion be I'd like to make a motion to recommend that we start meeting in person uh immediately or when the town hall is available but have the hybrid option available and you said immediately right was your motion um well whenever Mike says the town hall will be ready I'm not sure if that's immediate or not but all right do I have a second for Steve's motion second all right I'll take a roll call vote um Kevin so this is to start immediately or when I guess September 30th with the hybrid option though yes yes Gavin no no um paa no Steve yes Trace yes H Brandon sorry no uh Bill no Zach yes Bonnie no so I think we have one two three four five NOS Paul I didn't hear Paul did I miss did I miss someone yeah Paul your Vice shair oh sorry Paul I'm know as well you're okay oh I'm sorry no I mean I'm a yes I want to go ahead and start thought you want to start immediately yeah my apologies I got confused that's why you're the vice chair all right so um I guess I'm the tiebreaker then um I'll I'll go with yes so it's six yes five no and hopefully it's not just me and Zach at the table staring each other all right do we have anything else no there was one um minutes but yeah nothing else from Mike though right no good night thank you Mike all right so you sent the minutes out Paula correct yeah I believe it was April 24th did everybody receive the copy of the minutes any comments or changes Madame chair yes um is Joe's first name actually Frank was that a mistake that is his first name yes okay I think they spelled Zach's wrong name Zach's name wrong in the attendance isn't it a right Zach that is correct they got a cavage and buou right though hey even a broken clock is right twice a day right anything else how do you say your last name Kevin boay boay okay silent Jay yeah there's a Polish joke in there somewhere I mean I I don't know for an in-person meeting we'll save that yes after they turn the cameras off any other changes are we ready to vote okay I'll take a motion to uh approve the minutes motion made second Kevin yes Evan yes abstain Steve yes Trace abstain Brandon yes Bill yes Paul yes Zach yes bnie do you have enough votes do you have six yes okay then I'll abstain because I wasn't there it was sick and then I am a yes as well all right do we have anything else what's our meeting schedule Madam chair that's a great question Madam former chair do we have a schedule did you mik have a chance to talk about that at all yet yes uh well a little bit so he said that currently um legal council is reviewing all of our warrant articles and those will be ready for September 13th so it sounds like next Monday the 16th we can start meeting on those articles and I would have to look back at my notes on when we need to be done um voting on all of the articles in order to get the warrant posted um seven days 10 days I can't remember um but we'd be meeting weekly up until I think time meetings October 21st Monday October 21st y um so yeah great Madame chair yes when do we want to have the discussion uh that we touched on a little bit earlier of what we want to see from the schools and other departments for at least the spring um season so at least we can give them some time that this is what we are looking for yeah good I'm good question we're not are we looking for anything for them for the fall specifically or is this all the spring I would say the spring brings in a new budget year this budget's kind of set you know I don't know yeah may have some supplementals I I don't know but I would think we need to let them know now or at least we you know if they're GNA start putting their budgets together around I assume the end of the year first part of the next year as they uh as we get kicked off we should probably at least give them some kind of direction of what we're looking for and let them come back to us what they can do what they can't do so on and so forth least have a discussion on it chair Paul um so last year we met I think in September and November jointly with the school committee um and the select board I didn't know what the interest is now um with the three boards to meet um you know prior to the holidays um I don't know if there's there's not a plan yet as you know I haven't heard of any dates that have been thrown out but I don't know if that's something we might want to look at for this fall to do a joint meeting yeah I think that would be great to keep that tradition going does that work for you Zach to wait until then yeah that's fine also I I did notice there's a couple select board members here uh tonight as well listening and we' also talked about the select board actually I don't want to upset the apple card here do what's in the charter and set direction to the finance committee of what the priorities are that hasn't really happened in the past so I'm not sure how that all gets orchestrated um differently um but that's not what has happened in the past and I know I think you brought it up Sandy last time that you know that that's how it should be and that's what we have in the charter and I and I agree um so I'm not sure look to the spring how that's all going to play out Madam chair goe Paul one of the other things now that we're going to be meeting back in person would be to have um the assistant to the town manager put together the meeting packets for us that'll actually save some of us trying to print a million things at our house and everything so you mean like a printed packet like yeah yes they used to do that they used to give you actually a manual pretty much with everything in it and stuff that was going to be voted on yeah I can make sure that Mike knows that we're looking for that yeah I just think that puts puts the right stuff in everyone's hands you know so yeah do Zach does it work for you to have um all those conversations at the November meeting where we talk a little bit more about the budget process and how the three boards are going to work through that in terms of the select board and what everyone's role is yeah as long as we have the conversation I'm okay as long as we have it before uh everybody gets too deep into their budget I have no problem the Tim yeah I feel like November was early enough that people hadn't really made any plans at that point so we could still be plenty of time to have people change their direction or or or decide the direction that we're going to go Madam chair huh just to clarify for the two new members of the committee as well that um as a rule unless we need them to vote Yes for um a meeting that they weren't at as far as improving the minutes we'll have them Main in the [Music] future yeah I think the general you know procedure is that they they can vote if um you know if they if they feel comfortable trusting what everyone else has voted it does get tricky sometimes with it in the past we pretty much as long as we had enough for the people that actually tended could approve it that uh saves them the U possibly the liability if you will of approving something that they didn't really attend with that I'll make a motion to be adjourned till next Monday do I have a second second all right Kevin yes Gavin yes Paula yes Steve yes Grace yes Brandon yes Bill yes Paul yes Zach yes honnie yes yes and congratulations Sandy and Paul second tell me yes and we will see you next Monday thanks everyone good night everybody good night have a good week thank you all