e hello hello hello is everyone I'm sorry how is everyone a lot better than I was last week good yay glad you've recovered last week last week I was almost dead oh was it just like a real bad head cold or no it was uh some sort of neuro virus thing so it was really bad my son was no uh it was ugly yeah real ugly fevers and you know slightly Delirious kind of things you know oh man I felt like that during our fincom meeting last week as well well I I did watch it and I completely understand that oh so just in the interest of staying punctual it is 7l and I'm going to call to order the April 1st 2024 meeting of the Norton finance committee it is our April fools edition of our finance committee okay um no jokes tonight all serious Okay Kevin here Steve don't see Steve Tracy here Sandy here Joe here bill here Paul here Cody here Zach here Bonnie here and I am here okay hi Mike how are you good how are you Paula good all right let's get to it all right uh I'll share my screen first we have uh the library all right all right can you see that not yet not yet huh right all right now we see it all right so um last year uh we appropriated for the library and their request this year was 69,6 and55 and I don't know if anyone is new um on the committee uh that wasn't here last year just a reminder that uh the library is partially funded by the town and also has a uh endowment that they use to fund a good portion of their budget and I know there are people from the library on that uh if you have any questions can speak or if they want to speak I think I saw Leon Leon and Bob berg I'm on mute I do have a question Madam chair go ahead Joe um so for the for our representatives from the library I know at the at the Joint meeting uh there was a a gentleman who spoke spoke very eloquently about getting 4% in order to so that we could get some certifications um and I know that at the last meeting the last finance committee meeting we sort of settled on a 1% number what's the difference between those two numbers for for the library itself if you were to get a 1% increase what does what does this number look like versus the 609 655 which is 4% hi this is Lee Parker from the library the director I is around $10,000 a year for this year okay so we get partially funded from the town and then we get our supplemental budget covers everything but salaries and the network fee and materials and Technology comes from the trust and um donations and the friends things like that okay so the budget that we gave um oh this is the supplemental budget so we're a town building and town property but we pay for the grounds the facility um the audit that we have to have every year everything that you that you see in the library and outside we we pay for um so like postage we had to get pre-stamped envelopes we spent $700 on that recently um and all of our supplies Library supplies janitorial supplies technology so we have a limited amount that we can dry down from each year and it cannot be used for salaries so we budgeted $10,000 for building repairs for instance this year we've already spent over $34,000 this year because we had to our um we had some systems that failed that had to be replaced um that was just under 10,000 and we had flooding in the community room that had to be repaired we thought we were just going to have a $5,000 deductible but it wasn't covered by insurance so that was almost $10,000 so we're we're really in the hole on that side so we increased to 15,000 for next year hoping that it will cover the the building and the grounds but we don't know so so with the cut that we would if if it's a $10,000 cut we would have to cut the technology on the town side which means like if our public computers fail or um our technology we probably wouldn't be able to replace it unless we got a grant from cable we did just get a grant this year from the Norton media center and we were able to get hotspots and Chromebooks and the friend supplemented with the plans that you need to use the hotspots I don't know if the friends will be able to do that next year because we may be relying on them to cover materials so so that that 10,000 is is the shortfall that would keep you I think it's about that yeah because it's because we were asking for 4% right because we wanted to open an additional five hours so that we could be open the full 50 hours that were mandated by the state we're one of the few libraries in the state that are not meeting that requirement we're still kind of claring back from when we got desertified in 2008 um our budget used to be just over 1% around 20 years ago 1% of the Town budget it's now about 78% um and we're still you know coming back from that so it wasn't a huge increase to be increase in five hours but we said we could do it we were going to make it work and you could see by that sheet that just passed the um yeah our numbers are like for this is for FY 23 so everything increased um use of the library itself uh use of our materials attendance at programs programs themselves visitors to the library everything was up huge increases you know 67% 130% everything went up last year and we're doing it with a budget that's about half of what neighboring libraries have per capita and for the library yeah I mean I would the reason for the question was I would love to see you get that certification I'm not sure how we get there um but I did want to kind of put a number a dollar number on that rather than just a percent well I think the 10,000 was the difference between what the town manager is recommending um the 3% and then 1% I think okay so Madam chair yes Paul um Lee we keep hearing about the um additional funds that might come in in subsequent years if you are fully certified do you have an idea what that figure is to find out whether or not we be in Penny wise and pound foolish by not funding those five additional hours to maybe bring in more money in future years well it's 12 a half% is what we're being cut right now because we're not meeting the 50 hours and for instance in the fall our state aid was over 20,000 and I assume in in May we'll probably get another 20,000 so that's 12 and a half% less than what it should have been if we were open 50 hours so next year we we would still have the same because you have to prove that you can meet those hours for a full year so we won't get the additional 12 a half% till the following fall you have to be open from Labor Day to Memorial Day the 50 hours and then you will qualify for the full state aid M yeah Cody hi Lee um just a to put a number to what is the exact amount that You' need to increase for to get to 5050 hours well 609 or is the 609 the request including that that was the 4% request um if we got less than that if we got the 3% we would ask the friends to fund more materials and maybe we'd have to not have as many hotspot plans and things like that we maybe we might have to have fewer programs so that we can use it to meet the materials requirement because that's another requirement you're not required to be open six days a week and three nights and you know Saturdays and have all the programs but you are required to spend a certain amount of your budget on materials and you are required to be open so many hours and we that that would be a way we could get around it hope hopefully is is there a specific number that we need to get to excuse me is there a specific number that we would need to get to well the friends this year have donated $113,000 so but they they've paid for a lot of programs things that the cultural Council couldn't fund or you know additional things we like I said we would have to ask them to fund materials instead of programs to help us meet that so I don't know because you never know what you're going to make they do Raffles and they do um Book Sales and every year it's you don't know what they're going to make but but is that you would have to ask them to do that at at a 3% increase no if we had a 3% increase or you saying if we had a 1% increase yeah like if like what number do you you have to have on the budget to to meet the expectations to get certified we have to have a cut that is not disproportionate from other if we're cut it has to be proportionate across the town or we would be desertified they would desertified that's how we lost it before was a disproportionate cut and then the number itself it it depends it depends you know I mean because if your budget is lower then your materials requirement goes down a little bit too so it's it's kind of a moving Target all the time until we know what we're going to get then we have to figure out what we have to spend and then the mass Board of Library Commissioners vote some whether they will give someone a waiver or an accommodation okay from the from the joint meeting though I think the uh the gentleman that got up and spoke was asking for to my memory and and don't hold me to this but for my memory he was saying we needed like $5,000 for just for salaries to be able to pay for salaries to get to the 50 hours and then it sounds like there's some complicated math into like there's definitely everything is a moving Target that's the problem because until you know what how many hours you open and what your budget is what your materials requirement is going to be it it does shift so it was like I said I was told to do a 4% budget increase first and then I was told it was going to be three and then now I'm I'm hearing that we possibly could have a 1% increase and I not broken that down we I mean we've got that in the materials that came out today at five 592 994 is 1% right yes um how how close would that get you it with if we had a 1% increase I would not be able to open the additional five hours um the 3% I feel like we could do that and we get the difference between from money from the friends um but we can only draw down so much from the trust and from the supplemental account and our expenses are going through the roof you know everything is more expensive materials are more expensive the building it's it's an aging building and um you can see all the things on the supplemental account that we have to pay for and our treaser Robert Berg he's estimating 147,148 um on that side um which you don't know like this year we we already more than tripled the building amount so you never know what's going to happen this is Bob um if I could uh just speak to that uh yeah it's the building and repairs that really can throw us for a loop as far as our budget goes because as Lee mentioned we have very limited funds we only have the trust fund we do get state aid right now which could be um which could go away if we do not get the proper funding from the town and we're withdrawing about $65,000 a year from the trust um as you can tell when you have a budget of 147,000 just to maintain the building um you know you're you're uh behind the eightball pretty much right from the right from the GetGo we are fortunate that we do as Lee said have the uh support of the friends and the state aid and and we have the trust fund which is no small amount but uh it is the unknown the building the building is getting older it was built in 1990 and um so you're talking 34 years old now and things break down in the building and you have these unfortunate circumstances such as floods which we've dealt with on numerous occasions there we've had an air conditioning system that had to be replaced which was large and fortunately the town helped us with that one but uh again you know we're U it's going to be tight and um hopefully we can get enough hours up to 50 hours and we can get additional state aid and uh you know although it'll it'll probably be if the state keeps up uh with their increases which is no guarantee you know we could be up to say $50,000 if we go with the full um um the full 50 hours but right now we're working on a reduced amount and this year it was $40,000 20 in the fall and hopefully 20 in the spring but uh even even that could be subject to change with the state uh situation right now um the legislators are Focus using on state aid to libraries that is one of their focuses so every year it's been going up since covid so we've kind of missed out a little bit but hopefully can get back there at some point so um Bob to kind of piggy back off of Cody um you're looking at an increased state aid the following year of um maybe an additional $10,000 what's it take this year to get the minimum that we need to give you to get that five extra hours it should be a figure that's attached to that and if it's less than the 10,000 right around the 10 we're almost Penny wise pound foolish not to go ahead and exactly yeah exactly I mean uh I think Lee has a figure about 69,000 is the uh the 4% we could we could do it with the 4% um and as Lee mentioned you know we'd be sacrificing quite a bit if it was the 3% you know we'd have to rely on additional funds but uh yeah um to get an additional 789 $10,000 from the state would probably take the $69,000 I I feel comfortable that we could get the do with the 3% with the support of the friends and donations from from people not anything less than that just because you know we're we're at Bare Bones compared to a lot of other libraries so I I I think we're stretch too thin to to do anything less than 3% to do the additional 5 hours I mean I still want to maintain staff and be 45 hours I don't want to go backwards but I was really hoping to go to 50 hours but I understand the circumstances it's been our goal since 2008 yeah yeah can you guys hear me uh who's who's that speaking this is Brian Stalter on the board with uh with Bob I spoke at that uh me hi um as much as Lee stretches the dollar as much as she can with the um with the donations and the uh the friends of the library and occasionally we get something generous from somebody a few thousand dollars here or there um we need that 4% to be open 50 hours there's no if if we get to 3% we're still at almost like level service the 4% is going to get us to that 50 hours but then we still have to be we have to worry about next year and the year after that we can't keep judging what what's going to happen next year the year after I know it's tough to do but if the state comes back and says oh this year we're going to give you guys a little less and we wind up with the same amount of money at 50 hours as we did with 45 we're back to square one again and then we're struggling with do we get Museum passes do we have to reduce what we what we spend what you know and like Bob said the building's almost 40 years old we had some incredible um cost this year because of the age of the building and it's it's Electronics it's sprinkle a system um it's the the maintenance it's the the carpeting the doors windows you know siding you get these storms and something happens um we're covering all those costs with with donations basically and some of the endowment and we can't keep drawing more of the endowment then we're allowed to um we'll have nothing left just like the town had with with some of the funds you keep drawing out of those funds there's nothing left when we really need it so that 4% is going to get us to the 50 hours but Lee Lee really pushes and she works an awful lot of hours to just make everything run as smooth as they do and it's seamless behind for you guys but it's not seamless behind the scenes so that 4% would really help us a lot but that's if the override goes through right what's that that's if the override goes through there because they're gonna do a 1% budget and an override budget correct am I right yes we want to present two budgets that's that's the it's not budget sorry yeah I mean the state watches all these libraries like I said in that other meeting there's what 378 libraries in the state and we're one of four who doesn't is not fully certified well that don't meet the um open hours requirement yeah right well I appreciate everything you've shared anyone else from the finance committee have questions or comments well Madam chair feel free to call me if you have any questions anybody can email me or come by and I'm happy to show you anything um I I appreciate your support thank you so much Lee and I don't envy you tough year very tough year yeah Cody sorry oh um I I was just going to ask um will there be someone available to speak at town meeting to the to the need for the um for the increased budget for the override budget I'm always I'm always at the meetings um Bob berg Brian we're we're almost always there hopefully we have nine trustees hopefully um our trustees will be there and our friends we have a very active friends group so be extremely beneficial to have the people in the know the ones talking about what I mean in the grand scheme of things we're talking about what [Music] $177,000 like that should be a no-brainer it should be an easy decision get a certified yeah and give people access to you know keep the access open open five additional hours too and give them maintain more services for them that would be great if thank you very much thank you so much okay thank thank you right have a good night you um Madam chair next we have the assessors um I have their budget hopefully up on the screen and uh their salaries um $ 23,44333 increased from 4,25 to $4 49,8 and um the bulk of that was contracted Services was an increase of 4,000 and uh the treasure I excuse me also under uh seminars and conferences they went from 3500 to 6,000 and I know the assessor Denise Ellis is online if anyone has questions I Denise how are you hi everybody anyone have questions for Denise making it easy for me Madam chair we thinking uh Cody I think you were first yeah I'm just um I think I'm I see these are um union jobs so the the pay raises are built into the Union contract correct employees in that department or Union uh Joe uh that was my first question the second question was about the seminars and conferences can you just give us a little insight as to uh what the increase would get you sure so um all the classes have increased astronomically you know they used to be if go to a CL I have to be certified um going to a class back in the day used to be like $200 250 they've gone up to over $600 per class um and that's due to you know the places that they have to you know rent you know the the hotels the Conference Centers things like that and also the teachers and also um I have one person going for her certification um I'll be retiring in a few years so you know we need to bring somebody in and she's been taking some classes so it's basically for two of us for taking classes um she doesn't go to the conferences but she does take classes and those are those are required for certification those are required for certification yes okay thank you anyone else with questions for Denise hey while while Denise Denise is on she also has two articles um that I can uh get to sure give me a second so article 16 and 17 on the warrant um the first article article 16 is to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate um a sum of money for the three-year cyclical reinspection program and um Denise can talk to you about how this is a requirement of the state and the cost uh for this program is $220,000 and from that would come from free cash you want me to explain what that is definitely okay so so um with the state where we're we have to be certified every five years by the state um with that um we also have to do the cyclical program which is um our software company will will come out and they have to um inspect so many um homes a year so we're probably talking God at least over the next three years I'm not quite sure what our our number is yet because we're still putting everything together but over the next three years we'll be going out to the homes to do inspections that is required by the state which cost and then we have the fiveyear certification this year for 2025 um and all everything that's involved in that to be certified so that 22 that $220,000 pays for the inspections um it's it's yeah mainly that it's a few items on there um it's the recertification then they have to do um upgrade our Software System why they're doing that all our tables there's a lot involved in it um and that that part of it takes months to do so there's a lot of work involved in that and if you know if we don't get certified it's important because if we don't get certified then they won't certify us for the tax rate which means the tax bills won't go out which means we don't have any money coming in so this is extremely important it's necessary there is no no way to go around it it has to be done yeah sounds like it yeah unfortun questions anyone have questions for Denise about article 16 Madam chair yes bill um dumb question but just want to verify so this this is a cost every three years not every year or is it every year well this is so we'll be going out for the for the this includes the next three years so every year we'll be we'll be out there for the next three years doing the inspections and is there a savings to do it to paying for it all at once versus budgeting each year well it's just I mean it's something that has to be there every year for for me to pay the bills so whatever way you want to do it um I don't need the whole thing up front but I have to be guaranteed that I'm going to get it over the next two years after this okay thank you madam chair yeah Cody that was along the same lines of of my thinking if you if we've got a a essentially a three-year bill that we have to pay is there is this just a like setting up the budget line item to be able to throw in the guaranteed amount or is this a separate completely separate item because if we know that it's going to be every 3 years and it's going to cost $220,000 then why aren't we carrying a $73,000 line item on the budget just to fund for it and then if we don't spend the 73 that year then it goes into free cash and then we can pull it from free cash later like that's just how I would expect the budget to reset yeah I was thinking the same thing why this wouldn't be part of your budget if it's something that you know you have to do every three years is this what we typically do we have an article and we're pulling from free cash I don't remember it for some reason yeah so the last time we did it was in um 2020 and um so it goes into a separate account um so I can't transfer it back over maybe Mike can tell you more about that but it goes into a separate account it's only used for the cyclical program and it stays there and we we take out of it over the three years that's right and if for any reason there was some money left over at the end it would be closed out to free cash Madam chair yeah Cody I I I guess I'm confused about how this works are you saying there's a separate budget that's set up by the warrant that then can be drawn for like so it's a set amount that you're allowed to draw from for the next three years or five years or whatever it is and then once it's depleted you have to pass another article yes so the next time that we due for it yes you know the we don't have um so we do have to do it all the time so you know it's hard to to budget every year because we don't know what the cost is going to be every year and we have to have a contract so for some you know for some reason if we switched camera systems if we Chang software companies I don't know what their Char their fee would be so I wouldn't be able to budget in the future for that company you know so it's kind of hard doing it that way so doing it so when you line item would could get screwy if we don't have enough in the budget for you to be able to pull from so this is setting it aside into a completely separate account that you can pull from and then once it's gone you have to reup exactly exactly so back in 2020 when you last um put this article forward for free cash transfer it was less than the 220,000 um so it like increases every year and you're not sure yeah it would have been a little bit less I'm not quite sure the amount but it would have been a little bit less you know fees go up you know then you know he has to pay his people so payroll goes up different things like that and Madam chair yeah bill um so from the 2020 um budget or or article did that total amount get spent so that money because of covid we have money left over so that this total bill for the three years would be $330,000 but I have money in that account still because during covid they had to stop going into homes so I have money left over so I'm going to use that money and then I need the additional money to cover the other two years so yes there's still money in that account to use but my total amount was 330,000 over the three years and I'm only asking for like 220 something like that because there is still a balance okay thank you madam chair yeah Joe um so so this is for a three-year contract and the the what period does that contract cover that contract covers um FY 25 26 and 27 okay Z Madam chair seeing that we are in a financial crisis and we have enough money left over to fund the first year why not push this whole article off till next year use the money that you have to get by this year and come back next year with this request We're not gonna have the money next year Zach we don't have it this year either so I know so optimistic of you any she yeah she's got to commit to a three-year contract with the company though that's why it's almost be defunded funded this year um and it is kind of de facto revolving fund basically Denise saying because you are able to roll the excess into another period so it is an ongoing fund um and I do recommend that we go ahead and and front it I think it's going to be worse next year Madam chair yes bill but it's almost describing like a capital request where we understand that there are going to be payments over over the years but we don't fund into an account the total cost of say a fire truck we we we enter into the contract and we know wa each year we gotta pay X so I'm I'm I I I can't quite figure out you know to Zach's point maybe to Joe's and to Cody why why why it's all upfront versus yeah we're going to we know we have to do it but do we have to outlay the all the money at once that's does there have to be some sort of show of Faith with the state that when you're signing the contract that the money is there um because you don't have to pay this all upfront right when you're signing the contract right correct you don't have but whoever you're signing a contract with is going to want the usually they want the town accountant to sign off that the funds are available and if you're signing a three-year contract with the funds AR set aside the town accountant's not going to sign off on it and you wouldn't be able to get that three-year contract Madam chair yeah though but but how does that differ again from a a police car fir Tru whatever where you know it's over three five years but we're not setting that money aside it's still a contract and we know you know I don't think we want our our our vehicles to be repossessed well that's exactly the difference they can repossess Vehicles they have nothing to uh take back here well wasn't there software and that kind of stuff in this budget in that cost that's separate that's kind a separate line item the software part of it Madam ch yeah Zach this this whole thing doesn't make any sense they're doing the work over three years it's simple if they you don't pay them after the second gear guess what they don't show up I mean I I don't get it why we have to put this money aside I mean it doesn't make just budget 100,000 a year in your normal budget I don't even understand why it's even an article put it in the Assessor's budget 100,000 a year yeah I thought the same it's strange that it's not in the budget and that there there has to be an article every three years I'll tell you the more I see of municipal government the more my head spins Madam chair yes question question for Mike um where does this account live in the budget like where is the line item in the town budget that shows that we're carrying this for this specific purpose and secondary to to bills Point again where a fiveyear plan would make a heck of a lot of sense because we would know that we have every three years it's $110,000 a year and you're carrying that every year over year and I mean we talk about contractual obligations for salaries and we know that those like by by contract you have to do that then you you carry that in the in the budget it just I don't I don't see why this has to be set up 100% funded three years in advance if it's an ongoing annual expense it just it feels like something that should be carried as a line item in the budget and then James could still sign off on it if we're funding 110,000 within the the budget every year and we know that it's built into that budget you just know when we come to that line item in the budget discussion every year you say that's $110,000 that is contractually obligated we sign the contract and it has to be spent or we're not certified and then we can't tax um well to your first question when an article is approved at town meeting if this article's approved with 220,000 um James set sets up an account that that money sits in and only can be used for this purpose um if it's in Denise's budget um it would close out so if Denise had 100,000 in her budget and uh the company didn't complete their work that money would close out and go back to free cash in July one but if it's an article it sits in the article until it's used or if if it's something if uh you were going to buy something or uh had some engineering study that was going to be done for 500,000 and only ended up costing four then that 100,000 would be turned back as free cash once that project was done I guess the the trouble I'm having with that is it you're essentially doing that now the 110,000 that's sitting in there wasn't spent and it's it's just sitting there and you're like you've carried that over I understand if you don't spend it um in the annual budget it turns over as free cash but if you didn't spend it in year one and you're going to spend that much more in year two because you have to spend a certain amount then that's a discussion for the annual budget where that line item is you know last year it was 110 we only spent 90 or whatever it is so 20,000 goes back into free cash but we're going to pull that back out of free cash and we're going to fund 130 next year because it's makeup for for year two where year one fell short so just one comment um I am still using that account every year they have not been doing as many inspections they're catching up now but I have been taking money out of that account since 2020 but not as much so it's dwindled down but I still have enough so that I I do use that account and and so if that money wasn't there then they wouldn't be able to do the work because that money would have been taken back so that's why it's in that account so it's always there for when I need it but when they're doing the inspections I mean does it is it on average 110,000 a year or is it like it can be 150,000 and then another year it'll be 60 this this is a three year contract for this contract it's 0,000 a year for the for the three-year contract that would was probably Less on the last contract and after the after the next three years it's probably going to be more I I just personally I don't know I mean right now if we have a three-year contract we're locked in at 110,000 you know if we don't get well I guess it's the contract but you know but after this three years I don't know what that would that cost will go up to um just a follow-up question on that Mike is this is the 1.2 or whatever that you're suggesting in the in your letter that we pull from free cash is that taking into account this line item being passed no that's for the budget okay so again we're finding ourselves back in the situation where this is an ongoing expense I know it's a it's an a known ongoing expense three years in advance or 5 years in advance you know exactly what it's going to be but we're already you're saying 1.2 million and then Here Comes article 16 which is going to require another 2 or 2 220 so now we're at 1 Point uh 42 and then any of the other articles are more like if they're ongoing expenses why are they not in the annual budgets like the free cash should not be going towards things that we know are going to hit every single year free cash should be oneoff weird things that you know we need to be able to pull from or it's a a frictional it didn't happen this year when we thought it was going to happen so we pull it over it just rolls over into the next year but we know this is going to be there so it's it's just it's frustrating that we keep back in the exact same scenario where we're talking about using free cash for things that we know are going to be hitting the budget for the next three years so it sounds like though because it wasn't in their budget we have to have this money for them for this recertification program or we could lose a lot of tax money sounds like it will put us in a worse situation exactly it'll put us in a worse situation if we don't recommend this article and it get approved at town meeting um and then going forward maybe we can do something different with the budget yeah Cody do we Mike do we have what the budget's looking like with the 1.2 how much free cash do we have if we're pulling 220 from free cash on this how many other articles are also asking for free cash for recurring expenses like how far are we going to deplete free cash how much do we have we're talking about this one but what what other articles are we asking for free cash from yeah Mike do you have a total of the free cash asked from the articles I do um so if we um fund the budget with 1.2 million and then if uh we were to fund every article that's on the warrant um we would end up with $145,600 in free cash remaining okay correct Madam chair any idea how much is be certified in the fall sorry I jumped in there now go ahead what was that question Cody how much will be recertified in the fall do yeah do we have any estimate of what's going to be recertified in the fall because $145,000 in free cash seems incredibly light considering we've been carrying seven figures year overy year I mean with a 1% per increase in budget I highly doubt there'll be many turn backs and if we don't get the healthc care holiday health insurance holiday thing we're GNA have $145,000 left in free cash in the fall unless Mike you see something different but the free cash if the 1% isn't until fiscal year 25 so that's free cash fall 25 that will be right based on your your calculations lower and yeah we we we do know we'll have uh free cash I don't know what the number will be but we do know we're going to have free cash um because of some of the accounts like the um interest we've been earning is a lot higher than anticipated um the properties we sold in the summer um that's going to be certified as free cash in the fall so we know we'll have some money Madam chair yeah I didn't get mine oh sorry Joe Jo um so Mike what's the solution here I know I don't think James is on the call but how do we get out of this cycle of of having to use free cash for these articles how do we change our accounting so that this 220,000 or 330,000 for the contract is not always being taken from from free cash but can be planned for budgeted appropriately so I I'd like to know the answer to that question sure um would have to have a lot more money every year so um you know because right now when you look at it our increments like 1.1 million and we're using 770,000 of that just to cover retirement health insurance um other insurances and our inre increase in the semre assessment so understood but if we got to a point where there is no free cash we get zero then we can't fund these articles and and that's and if it's if it's mandated by the state there's got to be a better way to plan for that so if there was no free cash um we would have to do this so your budgets would be reduced even more because it would have to be raised in appropriate Madam chair yeah Kevin but are we saying we're purposely moving items out of the operating budget onto these articles this item's never been in an operating budget it's been an article year after year um I know the town accountant's been here a lot longer than me and ever ever since he's been here it's always been an article so it's not a it's not an ongoing strategy to move things out of the operating budget because we like we'd have way less money if they were in there that would be like intentionally robbing Peter to PayPal right Madam chair yeah bill again I I I keep scratching my head here if if we're essentially you know we're all kind of asking the same question um that why isn't it in the budget and then we we kind of get the answer well it's never been in the budget or this is the way we used to do it or you know whatever why wouldn't we just fund one year forcing it to then be put into the next budget and then getting it off this cycle because if we do it this way we're just going to be revisiting this in three years and and I feel like if the if override discussion is for Real these are the types of things that should be represented in the budget so that we can give an appropriate picture to the to the people of the Town yeah Zach to answer uh bill question uh the reason why we continue to do this is because this committee continues to vote to to recommend these articles a simple fix don't vote to recommend it and they'll have to come back with something else okay Madam chair yes Joe I'd just like to say to Denise I don't think any of us don't want to give you this money trying to figure out how the best way to do it in the budget given the crunch that we're in is madam chair yes Andy I know you had said we would we would meet after this um cycle for just process questions I think a lot of these are are you know talking about our process talking about our our financial policies I mean I don't think we're going to change them in this meeting um I think there are kind of bigger discussions this point I think if we wanted to move this into the the operating budget this this is probably not the best time to do that right so I think again the conversations of of um Financial policies is is what we seem to keep coming back to and I am I'm glad we're gonna have that conversation I just don't know that that's gonna all be solved tonight yeah I agree with that as well Madam chair yes Cody respectfully I would disagree with that I would say now is exactly the time when we're setting our budgets and we're talking about using free cash to we're already going to be using free cash to fund recurring expenses these are 16 and 17 articles 15 16 and 17 are both recurring expenses so article 16 is 110,000 article 7 is however much I think we appropriate a certain amount from free cash instead of taking a lump sum from free cash using article 16 and 17 just take a pro-rated lump from free cash throw it into the budget as a line item for three-year cyclical reinspection and add that to the to the ongoing expenses and then fiscal year uh the fiveyear reer recertification program put that as a line item and however much that is and then now you have built that into your budget on a reoccurring basis and then next year we're talking instead of pulling from free cash now it is a line item in the budget and we have a conversation about this is a contractual obligation it's $110,000 every year it's a three-year contract this is year one five-year contract this is year one like why why are we not having that conversation it's not a it's not a policy it's literally setting your budget up to be the way it's supposed to be I I'm not GNA like I don't want to 16 and 17 to say well we've always done it this way so that's the way it should be that's a fallacy and it's shouldn't be like we need to be thinking about it sounds like everybody's in agreement these should be line item funds in the budget so set them in there this year take however much you need for article 16 pull it from free cash and it's it's earmarked done well hold on hold on hold on Cody can I just try to see if I understand what you're saying saying in a different way um so could we Mike is it possible that we get rid of article 16 get rid of article 17 figure out whatever the one year would be for the three-year cyclical reinspection program put that in the Assessor's budget do the same thing for 17 whatever one year would be put that in the Assessor's budget and obviously that's going to mean like more than the 1% increase um for their budget but I think it needs to be shown there in that budget and then whatever they can end up getting with the free cash or everything else to be able to fund the their budget um that might have to be shown in the override budget um you know to have like a four or five% increase or whatever that would end up being um does that make sense yeah said something about moving free cash but we we could just get rid of the Articles Al together and just put this money in their budget now we just looked at their budget so it would just have to be edited to include these line items so Madam chair just to clarify you're talking about taking you're talking about slashing further then right making further slashes and cuts to to well I mean if they can only get 1% or two% yeah they'd probably have their budget the Assessor's budget would have to get cut from somewhere else I don't know where that would be there there is nowhere else to cut that the only way you could put it in their budget is to appropriate money from free cash and increase the one. two we're appropriating yeah the one point two it would just have to get distributed differently I guess Madam chair I'm gonna go back to my comment of I don't think this is the time to to just cold turkey cut out all the free cash you've been spending I mean we're already looking at a 1% budget um no I don't think we should increase I think knocking down more free cash than we spent 1.9 million last year we're down to 1.2 this point I've already you know kind of said and I think hopefully others agree that we don't want to supplement in the fall um so I think if we take all of that out and try to build that all into the budget now that's already a huge change from what we've done in the past and I don't know that that I would support changing that even further so I I disagree Cody that that the majority of us are are in agreement I think you know a few people have been speaking about that but there's a lot of us that haven't had a chance to speak about that Madam chair uh Zach I think he had his hand up first sorry Zach Madam chair uh uh and Denise correct me if I'm wrong Denise has already indicated she has enough money for year one of this contract we don't need to do anything else this year other than to vote these two articles down she has I thought you had leftover money about $100,000 to cover the first payment for this contract no I I don't have the entire amount for the first year I'll be shot short on the first year and do we know what that balance is that you will need for the first year um see there roughly the balance need to be 10 or 20,000 for the first year so I would I would put into her budget 10 or 20,000 and put 25,000 uh to be sure put 30,000 to be sure and and vote down article 16 and 17 and then add it to the budget next spring for the following year whatever that is that's all we need to do this year none of the nothing else has to be done other than that Joe yeah so I I don't see fundamentally what the difference would be if we're if what we're trying to do is fix the budgeting process from from you know we were up we were going to have 1.2 from free cash for budgets and and at least this 220 um that we were going to take from free cash for for this I don't see what the difference is of of raising raising from what we're going to take from freec cash that little increment to cover what Zach is saying in the end it's a wash we're still taking it from free cash but we're getting that much closer to a to to what we feel is a better a better budgeting process Madam chair I guess that that's the question I have is it sounds like people are suggesting just still spending the 1.2 million and and not spending this in free cash I'm not sure what the point of of of turning back free cash is into the fall um if if we're not going to push anything off into the fall I don't know why we're saving free cash what we're saving it for so I would be okay with putting if we wanted to raise from 1.2 um the amount that we use to supplement the budget but not cutting this amount out completely out of the free cash and leaving it to sit for next year so it sounds like another option would be we're still only taking 1.2 from free cash to fund the budget but we would have to take from other budgets in order to make sure this contractual increase is funded Mike would have to play around with the other budgets in order to make sure this but but my point was why why would we do that if we if we knew that we if we were going to include article 16 we' have to take it from free cash anyway why would we do that Madam CH why would we cap it at 1.2 I'm curious Paul what your thinking is seriously like I want to understand what your thought process is there I just thought that we didn't want to take more money out of our reserves in case who knows what we need in the fall but we would be if down zero that's what I'm confused about say that again Joe but we we would be taking more than the 1.2 if we were to recommend this article because the 220 would be coming from free cash that is outside the 1.2 that we budgeted for budgets if we if we fund this article yes we'd have to be taking more yes Madam chair I I just wanted to clarify that with with Sandy I'm not saying that we're cutting like the the 1% budget Mike's already included $1.2 million from free cash that's that's set my problem here is that number doesn't include recurring expenses like these line items for article 16 and 17 are annual expenses they're ongoing expenses and instead of funding them from free cash in a lump sum to pay future expenses throw them in on the budget pull whatever additional free cash you need this year on top of the 1.2 1.2 is set we're talking about for article 16 Zach clarified that we need an extra 30,000 this year because that budget is already it already has the money in there and she just needs an additional 30,000 to fund articles 16 and 17 done pulled the 30,000 now we're talking about having an additional $190,000 that we're not pulling from free cash to fund these two three years in advance that does that make sense I mean is that yeah think you and you and Paul are saying two different things though that's why I'm getting a little confused I think you're saying still use the free cash but use it as part of the budget correct or no but yeah I mean we have to this year to set this aside but we would be doing that anyways because the article requires pulling it from free cash right and that 1.2 million that's all ongoing expenses right that's that's it's part of our operating budget so we're again we're not going to get away from using free cash on curring expenses in one year in one Fell Swoop and I just want to make make sure that we're not um it's already going to be I think painful enough I don't know that we want to even cut even further just to put this into the budget I'm okay with using extra free cash and you can call it an article you can call it the budget doesn't matter to me but just as long as we're not just trying to stick with that 1.2 million okay I understand that makes sense uh Zach Sor uh Paul I think you had your hand up first yeah um Denise I just had a question this is a three-year cyclical program and yet it goes on forever so it really is an annual program why can't we just get an annual bid for it move forward that way as well so it's a direct part of your budget and I agree Sandy with what you said that we should uh go ahead and uh continue spending additional free cash to get this off the books if we need to to I'm sorry did you have a question I did Denise this is a threee program that never stops so it really is an annual program can we get an annual quote instead of a three-year quote then and have a part of your annual budget so you'd put in a fresh figure every year in your budget for what it's going to take to do it for that year we could probably do that well that just might take care of some of the other issues that that people are having here on this phone call on this Zoom make it an annual event I think we're just mixing a lot of different issues together here that's what causing confusion all I'm saying is you know we're talking about using free cash now later all I'm saying is we're working on one year's budget at a time here we're working on next year's budget and I'm saying you don't need to come up with 200 some OD thousands for next year's budget all you need to come up with is $30,000 where you take from is a totally different issue but for this year all Denise needs is 30 thou roughly $30,000 so why are we funding for two years down the route two years down the road when we're budgeting one year at a time that will leave a couple extra hundred, of free cash to be used in the fall or next year there's no need to prefunding the schools for two years we don't pre-fund the fire department for two years we're funding one year at a time we're just talking about that and all the other issues are are being kind of mixed together so M could we amend this article to read that way to just um take from free cash you know the 20 or 30,000 she might need just to get through for next year right I'll sit down with Denise and go over what she needs to get through the year and we'll come back I would prefer to do it stick stay with it as an article um you know as Sandy was saying earlier if we want to change the way we've been doing things year after year that's fine but let's have a discussion about it with the assessor and the town accountant uh all together with the finance committee you know after the budget season if we want to change how it's done in years to come we can do it then okay how does everyone else feel about that with an amended article to just fund through the next year I feel better did they have a figure for article 17 question article article 17 is 13,000 13,000 for the fiveyear that's all the 13 so that's what I was saying the 13,000 is probably what I I what I need um so I have money in that account so I need an extra 133 ,000 it's all kind of one program um that would goes into one account so if I had the 13,000 on top of what I have that should cover me for a year for article 17 for the threee CLE article 17 yep yep okay uh Madam chair to answer your question I'm I'm okay with if we reward this with an eye towards getting in the right direction next year just fun for one y for school year okay all right we'll come back to you with the number on that okay Paul you still have your hand up do you have a question or comment no okay Madam chair I have a I have a question go ahead Zach should I put on an extra pot of coffee because I think it's gonna be a long night yeah can you send some over to my house oh all right anyone else article 1617 moving on Denise done orise thank you so much thanks everybody appreciate your time good luck Denise it wasn't directed to you oh not I'm fine thank you have a good night everybody um next we have uh the treasure collector and if I can share my screen again give me a second and the the treasur collector's office there's four staff people in the full-time staff people in the office um and uh the salaries are contractual um and then the charges and expenditures um there's a slight decrease in the expenses and then also it attached is at the bottom is tax title foreclosure um last year $ 71,1 three the year $ 33,44 7125 and The treasur Collector pauler is on if you have questions hi Paula how are you good thanks how you doing good what is the decrease for the tax title foreclosure a big chunk of that is the auction that is a very timec consuming and expensive process going through all those properties um and a lot of it because I was tied up with that a lot I didn't get to a lot of other things um that offit is is pretty tight as far as Staffing level and um so I'm struggling to get to everything so if I don't do my part the attorneys can't do their part and so that's why we're not spending the money in the tax title foreclosure do you foresee that going back up to the 71 or do you think just because of the auctions that we had last year will it stay around like that 30,000 range the auction itself is probably about uh 30 40,000 depending on how big it is just on on um the attorney because what that is is going through all the paperwork and making sure that the tax taking was done right that you know that the tax bills were issued properly and who actually owns the property you can get into a real hornet nest when you start looking into to some of these um the deeds and mistakes being made and it takes it's you know you really can't tell how long a lot of that stuff is going to take um and then just going through the process and dealing with the um the people buying the the properties and running the auction and all that kind of stuff that's you really want a professional doing that so when we do an auction again that it would would require some um additional budget so I'm not planning on doing that in 25 so it would just be going after individual properties and um trying to collect on those properties or potentially foreclosing on them and doing the tax taking perfecting a lean I didn't do that last year for 2022 so this year I'll be doing it for 22 and 23 okay Paul did you have a question I did pauler um what's the status of the um the lawsuit or whatever that was keeping our million dollars and change in AB batement until we figure out what's happening with the money raised at the auction are we getting just the tax dollars back that were owed are we getting to keep the whole thing um that the they haven't really made any decisions on that um but we the money that was owed to the town we have taken that back and that that we have access to it's the the excess and part of the issue is that some of these properties we've held now for literally decades so depending on how you calculate that a that excess is it based on the price at the time that you foreclosed on the type the price for the auction and so now you're including really capital gains with that so that it gets into a there's a lot of things to consider about doing that so I don't think it's going to be anytime soon that they have a a good answer for that to be honest with you un we do have but we do have the actual tax dollars that were owed to the town for the years right up to you right okay right well as much as we were able to collect in some cases we didn't collect enough but in a lot of them we we collected more than that um so that money is in the bank and um so interest rates are up so we we get that money we can keep that money okay that's that's that's a free cash talking about for the fall yeah we we did meet uh we had a conversation with Town Council and uh Town Council it'll be more work for Paul again but um has suggested that we go through properties that we've sold um find out you know what tax money we were owed on each of those properties What expenses we had on those properties and that money will be available and the rest of the money hold um until we uh know if anyone's going to come forward or not and the attorney general and the legislature haven't really been doing much on it to help us and uh I'll be reaching out to the MMA see if they're going to do anything on it anyone else have questions Zach so Mike what do you have an estimate of what that number is Paul would probably have a better idea I think it was uh just the excessive deficiency was over 600,000 was close to 700 I think okay and and Mike has anybody discussed what's what's to happen with that money are we going to be using onetime funds for operating budgets again and get back into that trap or we kind of try to do something else with that money when we do when it does become free cash it would it would be certain ified as free cash like all any of the other um money that we have and then it's up to whatever we're going to do for next year I would suggest at least to this committee that it does not get spent into operating budgets because that's just another one it's Nest Adam chair yeah Cody um hi Paulo uh hello can you uh explain what the purchases of services is other than salaries that's the largest line item in your budget yep the um a lot of that is the uh the payroll system it's Harpers and it is um our printing through Kirkwood and um the lockbox which is the um the when you look at your the envelope that comes at your taxes that says reading we have a lockbox company and that's where um that's their [Music] services thank you questions for Paula all right hearing nothing thank you Paula Paul she's not done yet oh sorry still then um the next part um under Paulo's budget is uh a good portion of the fixed and shared expenses uh the maturing debt interest employee benefits and employee benefits um you have at the top personnel personal service that's Bristol County Retirement and then uh the next line item is the health insurance and the third is Medicare correct Paula right any questions on these fixed and shared expenses Adam chair yeah Zach what percentage of the budget is the retirement more more than 10% of the of the total Town budget is just to cover retirees $8 million almost $9 million that's health insurance retirement is the 4 million1 uh 4 million as requested 4, 37869 that that's the retirement and that health insurance is a 8020 deal uh 7525 and that's been like that for how long forever or is that been adjusted over the it has been adjusted um Paul would you remember I'm trying to remember when it went to 7525 it was it was probably five six seven years ago at least it was a bit ago 7030 right I mean 7030 I'm sorry no the PO was 7 PP yeah and what was it was it seven eight years ago the PO went up uh the last time we did um an amendment to um the contract with all the employees on health insurance probably six years ago before that before that the PO and the town Insurance were the same and when they went up they I think they went up five% a year it went from uh 80 20 and then it kept it went up to the 7525 and the PO went up to the 7 7030 and that was negotiated with the Dozen unions including the teachers union all at once yeah yes has anybody given any thought of renegotiating that um we will have to uh the contract is ending so we will have to do a new uh agreement Madam chair yeah Joe so Mike you said that the personnel personal service of 4.3 is and the other personel Services of 8.9 that's retirement and health health care respectively the top the top is retirement the four the four million and the eight 8.9 that's health insurance how are we able to not fund that completely if your recation is a couple because um the retirement we usually pay in h one payment and we get a reduction so that's what that is and and then health insurance um is my recommendation will be reducing it because we're talking about elimination of some positions got it okay thank you yeah hey anyone else and the unemployment I've increased it uh from 75,000 to 100,000 um obviously we're not going to know um if people get laid off whether they get hired in other communities and we not burdened with uh the full unemployment and then uh we have the uh fuel expense and then uh the last item charges and expenditures um that's for all the insurances liability Auto property in workers Madam chair yeah Cody Mike on the uh the unemployment um how many positions are we talking about estimated I know the schools are looking at give or take 35 to 40 at a 1% um increase uh year-over-year how many are we talking about from uh the other Town departments um I don't see uh we have uh the public health nurse left we're just not filling that position um the highway department there possibly will be one um one uh unemployment claim there and um the COA um well one position was a plan position that's not happening and the other one would be a van driver that um won't be filled so there won't be any unemployment there is it is it realistic that $25,000 will cover up to let's say let's say 20 people I mean is that is that a realistic number um we well we've never if you look uh I I don't I don't know to be honest with you because those 20 people could be hired in other communities so obviously obviously in the fall we'll have a better idea and if we have to add money to it we'll add money to it yeah I was I was giving you the benefit of um of of the 40 some odd people that we're going to be laying off that about half of them so I just there's no way in my mind that that 100,000 is going to cover how how long are the benefits owed um the benefits are I believe I'm not exactly sure but I think it's 30 weeks I don't know if Paula has a better idea but I it I think it's around 30 weeks and um I think the maximum is um 1,500 yeah I don't know yeah 30 weeks sounds about right I'm not sure about the um the max D you have your hand up yeah I think to to answer some of Cody's see my wife is a school teacher uh School teachers are paid if if if it's School teachers are talking about they're paid through the end of August anyway even because that's the way their contracts run from September the school year so they'll be paid through the summer before they can even file for unemployment and with the teacher shortage uh there's a high demand for teachers so uh you know it it would be difficult to engage uh how many will stay you know unemployed into the fall anybody else all right all right that's it for you Paula all right thank you Paula good night folks night good night thank you the maximum by the way is 26 weeks I just looking so I think that's all you had for uh budgets tonight yes there's Capital now yep let me pull that up so um this is the plan that was approved by the capital committee uh the capital committee uh the balance in the capital account to start was [Music] $52,599 and um the capital committee is recommending that we use $ 357,96 which will leave 154,50 29 remaining and the items that they''re recommended for funding are uh under data processing 25,000 um for end of life equipment um the roof replacement over the portion of the Town Hall that is staying which is uh the brick portion of the building um it's currently leaking several places so um their recommendation for that is $34,500 to be borrowed Duty new Duty pistols for the police department 43,000 um the last replacement of structural firefighting holes for the fire department um 22,000 and um at the um JCS they need to replace the uh elevator hydraulic cylinders um the it's been inspected and they told them that uh they need to replace that in order to keep the elevator certified so that's $ [Music] 68,70 and then the highway department uh no new recommendations just payments on uh equipment uh they p built J hook payment two of five for 50,000 uh they're John Deere utility tractor 34,300 and their peterb belt dump truck year four or five uh 28,1 15 uh they also recommended $1,030 uh for repairs at the ever Leonard Park um this will be for pool safety um repairs excuse me for pool safety repairs and furnishings and equipment and painting of The Pavilion and the so Department uh recommend a Ford F250 truck 4x4 uh with utility body and a plow with accessories 77,000 toweh electronic traffic warning sign 20,625 and a six whale Mac Granite uh GB 48,000 GVW dump um 25% of that will be um funded from sore that's 51,500 and um 75% or 150,000 will be funded by water uh on the bottom there and also underwater uh Chevy Silverado uh 4x4 Cab in chassis for 50,000 and a to the toe another tow behind electronic traffic warning sign 20,625 so the total um for Capital will break down um the total Capital requests 282,000 140 borrowing uh 34,500 total uh water Surplus 149,150 and total water Surplus 22,6 25 so the total um is $956,000 yeah Joe so Mike on the previous Pages there were multiple for vehicles there were you know one of of five or three or five or whatever are are all of the vehicles on this page onetime payments and I will while I'm going to that I just I gave you the wrong figure the figure uh coming out of capital is 282 240 on this page um you were talking about yeah here we've got year two of three for the J hook and and so on on the other page for the water and sewer are those are they paying all of that off in one year or they are okay they are they are yeah okay any other questions on this Capital Madam Sher yes Cody um Mike it was brought up in a previous meeting that uh the permanent building committee had recommended not tearing down the old town hall so are they tearing it down or they not I know there was a portion of it like the entry way there that was like brick that wasn't the stucco that that was always intended to stay but I thought we had discussed they they decided they weren't going to spend the money and save the the money and not tear it down um they have asked the uh OPM to look at that uh it was not bid so it's not part of the bid prep uh bid project that was gone out already so it would be a new bid process uh so they're looking at uh what they're going to have remaining in funds and we'll go out to uh see if they can afford to tear it down and put it back on so they haven't made the final decision they're waiting for all that information from the OPM so if presumably when they tear that down I mean it leaves a big hole in the side of the the building that would have to be patched up so that would have to be part of the bid it is yeah that that is part of the bid wouldn't wouldn't then a roof like you're not going to keep an old roof that you're tearing a building down from I'm just wondering about that like the borrowing of $34,500 I'm just wondering why that wouldn't be considered part of the the demolition of the existing building because it's it's demoing that building and then securing the remaining building structure that is not torn down yeah um it was never never going to be part of that um all that was going to be H part of that bid was to tear down the existing Town Hall uh Shore up that wall make it uh whatever they have to do to com make the building whole that uh left the fire station and the rest of that brick portion and there you know the roofs are two separate roofs because the town hall was there first and the B the fire station was added on later so they're they're two separate roof so whatever work is done tearing down the old town hall and fix fixing the wall isn't going to affect the roof so it's the roof over the fire station that needs correct right it's the whole brick portion so um right now like if you picture the town hall um where the lunchroom is and the Veterans office and upstairs where um inspections in Board of Health that would all become part of the fire station that part stays and that's the part that has the problem like not the part directly above the fire station the part above the town Hall part of that roof correct right the 304 is for well no they've told me over at the fire station they do have issues now too okay so it's the complete okay yeah so it just from a logistics standpoint if [Music] we're presumably they aren't going to borrow this and start and put a new roof on it and then have us tear down the building next to it and then it's not like matching or they got to patch it or or whatever right they they would wait for that process to be done before they redid the roof I don't know what the time frame would be for that tearing down um that'll be something that will be looked at but there are two separate buildings right now I mean there one was added on later so the RO the roofs aren't even in line they're different levels okay Madam chair well um do we need to have the permanent building committee you know come speak with us Ju Just just so we can get a better sense on what the heck is going on in this project because I I thought a couple of meetings ago there was like two estimated to be $2 million to the positive in the new town hall construction so I think I think that was just thrown out no one no one had that figure I think that was just thrown out from one of your members I don't think I don't have that figure in front of me and I didn't have anything in front of me that night I think it was just thrown out there I don't think they have $2 million right Madam chair yes Andy I'm not done yet oh sorry ionna say I'm I'm the rep bill for the for the PBC so what you know what I've heard from from their meetings if that's something you're interested in um y we did talk about it the last their last meeting so I would encourage you to to watch that piece kind of get you know for your information for yourself but there wasn't the timeline wasn't quite the what what we had heard in our last meeting it was they the the project was going way over budget they had to cut things that was one of the things that got cut then when it went out to bid that's when it it came in under bid but they still have not there's a lot of still um things that could could change so they don't really have a final number for how much money they're going to have left as as Mike said earlier um they're they're still you know there's still changes that are being made and and costs that are increasing so they don't really have that that figure that bottom line at this point um they did I did speak to the last meeting and talked about I think what vom's concerns were in terms of maintaining and heating a building that that is not being used or just being used for storage um there's there were other concerns too the OPM had concerns in terms of um just you know the overall scope again I don't think we at all got the the full picture at our last fincom meeting um so I would encourage people to to watch their last PBC meeting where they went through a lot of those details but I know they are looking into it it wasn't a matter of they just had an extra two million they were choosing not to spend it um they they're still waiting to see what that final number is going to look like [Music] so but was the demolition part of the original budget initially before it got taken out it was part of the original budget yes but then a lot of things got cut when they when the cost started going up that was one of them yeah but so they they had an estimate on how much it would cost to take it down correct I forget what that is Mike was it um I I I hate to guess but I think it was around 878 th000 or something in that area sounds right it sounds like what I was remembering so again my concern is this is what was voted by by by the town we're going to put this building up we're gonna take this other one down because we sold the project of we can't live in this existing Town Hall that concrete block you know structure is degrading it's going to be unsafe so now we take it now you know a couple years later after we voted yes we we deserve a new town hall now a couple years go by prices went up we take that line item out it's still a structurally deficient building that's G to have to come down at some point why why why why are we kicking this can down the road th this you're heating it you're going to have to maintain it if it's so structurally deficient so it doesn't injure someone I I I'm at a loss as to why it's staying up to be to be an additional cost for years to come I I don't get it and is this solely pbc's decision or would this be selected board I'm sure the PBC um would come back to the select board um if they need more funds then they'd have to uh have an article to appropriate more funds so I think I mentioned this last time but the select board should also have a rep um attending those meetings to be able to keep the select board informed of decisions like this because they I think the words Dina would use uh when she was on the board was they serve at the pleasure of the select board so they've been appointed by the select board so they sort of answer to the select board they technically don't answer to us we can ask questions and I think it's right for us to do so but um technically they answer to the select board so it makes more sense to me to have those questions asked by the select board and answered by the select and answered to sorry the select board even if they were willing to come to to this meeting Madam chair Steve does go to the meetings um and I know they actually spoke about this at a select board meeting they talked about the town hall um the fact that it was going to stay up uh so that was a conversation that was that happened at a select board meeting a little while back um I'm gonna go to Zach because I know his hand was up first uh uh Mike or or Sandy I don't know if you know this but um it was my understanding that there was going to be some legal council opinion if funds could be crossed from the surplus of the senior center versus the surplus of the town hall or was it voted in as one project has anything come of that I don't know if anything's come of that I I don't believe it can be done but we'll wait and see Adam chair yeah um I sorry I didn't mean to derail the conversation into the uh into the town hall I was just more concerned about if if we're recommending the borrowing of $34,000 that it's not something that could potentially like conflict with tearing down that building or not tearing down that building just just the logistics of this do we approve this now like do we make the recommendation to give approval to do this and will they wait to see what's going to happen with that building first because to me it would make a heck of a lot more sense to knock a building down put up the new wall and then do the roof as opposed to doing the roof knocking a building down putting up a wall and now like structurally it just makes sense that you have the wall there before you finish the roof well is the problem that the leak could be causing more problems if we wait too long Cody Cody yeah Paul yeah so Cody it's my my recollection that the roof on the um the fire station SL part of the Town Hall that's going to remain is actually elevated above the um the gym part of the Town Hall roof it's already a separate kind of parit wall there so I'm not sure there would be an effect with the other building coming down we going to have to show that up anyways okay yeah I was trying to look at like satellite photos and the street photo just to see because it looks from the street and I and I had one of the um one of the um um fire guys just texted me and says yeah there's some pretty serious leaks that need to be handled now because they're gonna cause mold and M wishes they don't care them soon that'll be a more expensive problem any other questions on the capital oh sorry Cody go ahead yeah I mean it like repairing a roof is different than redoing the entire roof that the 304,000 is to redo the entire roof not to not to patch and fix right well I think part of it Cody was that it's already into the insulation because that's got that um the um styrofoam that pitches a roof into the different drains and stuff so it's all going to have to be ripped up and get done but I think it could be done without being effective by the town all being torn down either before or after go as long as it's not going to be a re like we have to redo it and it becomes a nightmare addition like a SE like a sewer project exactly ex Peter did you have something to add yes yes I yes I posted a old photo from the Sun Chronicle back in June 26 1978 on what the town hall and the fire department looked like back in 197 eight oh I'll have to check that out I I posted a photo in the personal meeting room chat room oh nice thank you so much welcome all right anyone else about Capital requests hey hearing nothing are we GNA vote that is article eight that's article eight okay do we have to you do can you pull that back up on the screen Mike if we have to because we have to vote for it line by line of where it's coming from right ambulance let me grab it why Bill engaging all right let me get down to just Peter could you just mute thank you so much so the column um that says Capital Improvement committee is the recommendation so it would be a total of 9564 with $282,200 coming from the Capital Improvements fund 34,500 to be borrowed 149,150 from sore retained earnings and 22,6 125 from water retained earnings okay there's no more questions about this article the chair would entertain a motion to recommend article 8 madam chair yes Joe I hope I'll get this right uh I make a motion that we recommend funding the fiscal year 25 capital budget for a total amount of $956,000 of which $282,200 comes from the capital Improvement fund $34,500 to be borrowed $149,100 $25 from sewer retained earnings and $220,600 Paul yes Cody yes Zak yes bnie yes yes I yes 10 yes for article eight Madam chair yes Joe uh Mike remind me what number article that was eight thank you and uh the only other one tonight um is article 7 article 7even would be to appropriate money to the capital fund and I'd recommend that we take no action on article 7 okay any questions or comments about taking no action for article 7 to appropriate money to Capital Improvements hearing nothing the chair will entertain a motion to recomend to recommend no action correct is that how we do it so mov okay is there a second second all right Kevin yes Steve uh Steve's not here sorry Trace yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Zach yes Bonnie yes yes for no action for article s Madam chair yes Paul can I ask Mike what's the balance remaining after these Appropriations in the capital without funding yep hold on I changed my number 154,000 right but that changes because I I you I gave you the wrong uh because after Capital met we didn't fund as many things so let me just give you it 23, 287 230,000 287 way to [Laughter] go I'll just ask you next time Madam chff oh Paul math quick ma okay um that it from you Mike this evening yeah um just you have two meetings next week the 8th and the 11th and what about on the following week that Monday is the holiday on school vacation week are you meeting or not on Wednesday so how's everyone feel about that meeting the I believe that would be the 17th right that Wednesday yeah instead of the 15th for that week with the Patriots Day holiday Adam chair yes sir we normally don't meet on school vacation weeks and I'm and I'm away on vacation that week yeah I think didn't we think we didn't meet last April we never have as long as I've been on the committee right what do we looking like Mike though as far as how much more we have to get through we have quite a few articles especially budgets yeah I think most of the bud the most of the budgets I think you just have the 100s to go I think you've done most to the budgets and um we can do some more of the articles on next Monday and Madam chair yeah Paul next Thursday is the joint meeting again yes yes and where is that going to be because the library certainly was uh over overflowing and I'm thinking it's gonna even have more attendance at uh this one because people are starting to hear about it so I didn't know where you were planning on having it was going to be adequate yeah I mean I know originally Sher said that the library at the middle school would be available but I don't know if we want to think about a different location I'm thinking an auditorium myself I would almost think you'd need a middle school or the High School auditorium let me I'll reach out to the school department tomorrow and see uh if we can have a bit larger location anyone else aside from Zach would have to meet Miss a meeting the week of the 15th if we did it on Wednesday the 17 just want to see if we'd have Quorum I'd like to meet because we have so much to go go through um I may be slightly late but I can I can make it okay that it be Wednesday the 17th yes and know i' be all set for that I can be there I won't be here next week for either meeting I'm traveling for business being the West Coast so thank you for letting me know all right let's try to plan for the 17th Mike okay Madam chair yes Cody um I just want to have like set my expectations on what the what the 11th is going to look like is is it the intent that we have pretty much the final drafts of the 1% and pretty much the final drafts of the override budgets to to work through and and have an idea I mean are we going to know by next Thursday what a 1% budget overall looks like and potentially how many cuts and what like every like the the final not final final but a good idea of what the final decision is going to uh be at that point yeah Mike would it be I mean we've seen what an override budget would look like because we've been given the requests from the Department so we have those um but Mike would you be able to show your recommendations at the 1% the bus yeah you should have gotten that today if not I'll make sure you get it tomorrow I think it was email yeah I think it was like four o'clock this afternoon maybe it came in had it had to be split into three different emails to go through yeah we did get it I wasn't able to open any of those yet but so Madam Madame chair not not not trying to talk on behalf of the schools but they had a wish list in addition to their proposed budget of things they wanted but they didn't include because they were trying to keep it a level service and stuff so I'm not sure if the override budget would be the budget they submitted or whether it it would be tweaked even higher because they had that I think it was close to a million dollars worth of additional items that they had on a page they showed us in their budget yeah I don't know don't know would just be that 12% budget they originally presented to us or if it would include those wish list items yeah I'm not sure I'm I was also wondering from from the town manager like pulling out all the free cash and stabilization and like a final number on what the override would look like without using those non-recurring revenues for recurring expenses agreed yeah we we would have that and then it's just a matter of uh what what people want is it a 4% budget it's a 3% budget is it the budgets that were originally submitted that that's a decision we're going to have to make that night but whatever whatever is done I would hope that um we if we're going to do an override we would do it so that that money that we're using from free cash stays in free cash and we don't use that and that's to the earlier point about Shoring up what like procedurally what we're looking at that's where we need to make sure that all of those reoccurring expenses are line items in the budget so that we're not funding from free cash by using the Articles every year because every year we start at a million or a million one or a million two and then we end up close to two million because we keep just using the Articles to fund recurring expenses out of the out of free cash I just want to make sure that we we get us to a point where we have eliminated that from the discussion if we're having a serious conversation about that you know what's the override that's needed to get us to fund to the services that everybody says they want to get you know fully staffed in all the Departments and all the services that everyone wants I just want to make sure that have like all of those line items in the budget so Cody to that point then the 5.5 or whatever it was Million that was looking at the level service then you'd pull out the free cash which was another 1.2 so that put you up to like 6.7 or whatever and then yeah so it' be a seven7 million override maybe a more yeah I I just want to start like we need to start from what does the top end look like and then Whittle down because we can't start at the bottom and work our way back up we have to start at the top and work down and even then though if we if we fund everything this year like that and next year there's another request of you know nine 10 12% it's just can't it's not sustainable they've got to come up with a different way of doing their budget but that's yeah that's the whole point is like we got to start at at that level and then and then if if like next year they want additional you're like sorry we did an override like there is no additional like you got to figure figure out a way to make it work the townside pretty much Works year to year three to 4% you know give or take in their um a little anomaly this year with the fire department losing the safer Grant but other than that normally the townside works pretty well keeping within the parameters but gez 9% last year 12 point something this year for the schools it's not sustainable no matter what you do and you're not going to get a second override two or three years from now no I you know I agree but that's not a reason not to have the discussion about doing one that is needed oh absolutely Cody I agree we just got to make sure we we repair everything if we can this year like I said you know no I agree Zach do you have a question and comment yeah I I guess this is the Ed editorial section of the meeting I think you need to decide I know I get where Cody's coming from but you need to decide what's needed or what can pass because this is a political issue we couldn't pass a $2 million override my personal opinion if you go out there with a what they're looking for four five6 million doll override that is going to lose far worse than the previous attempts I'll bet you dollars to Donuts even I mean you got to say okay I think the town for fa to stand any chance in my opinion you they series of cuts plus some Revenue if you go if they if if the select board goes out there with that with that kind of number forget about it you're going to see no signs every lawn in this in this town uh you need something it's what can you pass as was discussed in the previous meting this is a previous meeting excuse me this is a political issue uh and if you think you're gonna put a $5 million override out there I mean we are really in Disney Land just my opinion and I think you're wasting a lot of people's time okay so we are meeting next week Monday and Thursday all right any other questions comments about the schedule or for Mike before we say good night to Mike April 11th will be at either the high school a Trevor middle school which I have to find out we will find out Peter and we'll let Peter will find out let us know [Laughter] Peter okay okay um we do have a set of minutes if we want to look at those real quick if anyone has any edits we want to approve them thanks Mike thank you Mike bye uh Madam chair yes Joe I have a number of relatively minor edits and one that I think is more than minor okay so page two to the last bullet I believe that level funded should be hyphenated yep last paragraph uh second line from the bottom firearm should be one word okay uh next page under FY 2025 Communications budget uh correct me if I'm wrong but Southeastern Massachusetts should the Southeastern should be one word one word yeah uh the next page under the FY 2025 fire budget um after the bulleted list this the second paragraph after the bulleted list uh it reads this year has been usual and the fund is on track I believe that should say this Fe this year has been unusual unusual yes um last paragraph station one probably ought to be capitalized last paragraph on that same page yep starts with Chief Wilson shared and then in the last sentence uh coverage is still needed to provide services on these days needed not need yep uh and I think I have one more but I might be wrong uh yep on page eight uh where the motion was was made for adjournment it reads that it was made at 899 p.m. uh I checked the video and it was 8:33 p.m. 99m it was on sale yeah it's on sale at Walmart H that's all I found that is very helpful Joe thank you anyone else have any edits for these minutes from March 11th or I will entertain a motion to approve as amended Madam chair yes I make a motion that we approve the March 11th 2024 meetings at meeting minutes as amended second second okay motion of second Kevin Kevin yes Tracy Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Zach yeah yes Bonnie I'll abstain I wasn't there and I am a yes nine yes one abstain for the minutes for March 11th shout out to an yes scribe We Appreciate You does a fantastic job in she's very quick to get us minutes thank you an shout out in advance for her doing last week's minutes because that's going to be a fun [Music] one um okay so if anyone has anything else we can adjourn I will entertain a motion to adjourn Madam chair yes make a motion we adjourn second okayy Kevin Tracy you said yes yes she did did okay sorry Joe yes Bill Sandy though yes H me but I'm a yes okay good uh Paul does anyone ever say no to this yes Cody yes Zach yes Bonnie yes I to a yes good night everyone good night night everybody good night Tracy good night Joe good night Bill good night everyone thank you all right great