all right so we do have a quorum now it is 7:00 I'm going to call to order the April 17th 2024 meeting of the Norton finance committee take a quick attendance all right Kevin I don't see Kevin yet Steve all right Steve Tracy here Sandy here Joe here bill here Paul he's connecting Paul you're here all right I see you Cody Zach is gonna be absent tonight Bonnie here all right and I am here chair are in here yes I saw you you were connecting gotcha it wouldn't let me unmute till I acknowledge that you were recording the meeting yes why won't I very important all right hi Mike how are you good how are you I'm finally recovered now from last Thursday's meeting I don't know about everybody else took a few days not going to lie traumatized traumatized m madame chair before we jump into the regular gender um in light of the additional information that James uh the town accountant provided regarding the animal control and the fact that we're going to be potentially plann unemployment for the girl to be laid off for a couple of months and stuff um I was a yes vote could we reconsider just for discussion purposes that because it seems like be not saving really any money by not doing that then not having the service for May and June if people have a problem right so um yeah I mean you could definitely make a motion for us to reconsider that again I'd like to do that I'd like to make a motion at least to reconsider it second okay all right Motion in a second to reconsider and Mike you're going to have to refresh my memory of what article that was oh no that was a just a reserve fund transve fund transfer all right to reconsider and that was was it 8,000 yes okay um okay a motion in a second to reconsider I will take a roll call vote for that um Steve yes Tracy uh yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill no Paul yes Cody yes uh Bonnie yes um and I I am to a yes to reconsider um reserve for transfer of $8,000 mam chair I think we lost her I think we Lo so I'll jump in go ahead Cody um Mike what what is the cost of unemployment for this part-time position that has been working for 6 months I'm not sure um I don't have her salary in front of me can imagine it's going to cost us $8,000 in unemployment I no I would doubt it because she's only uh 18 or 20 hours a week Cody my concern was that I don't think we had the right story for the past two votes as well it wasn't uh really made clear that it wasn't really for Brian directly it was for the um parttime to fill in for his vacation time and all that and you still have the issue where I I don't know how you not have a animal control officer of some sort responding to an emergency through May and June um which is a time when the animals get out and get a little more active and stuff too so I personally just think it's um sh cided not to go ahead and do the um transfer and fund it but I appreciate the chance to Red discuss it after information Mr Vice CH yeah go ahead oh um so I I think I I've um articulated my position that I think the biggest issue is how did we get here this is a part-time position it's only scheduled for so many hours a week how do we blow that and and if it was hey we needed you for like double duty in January then it should have been adjusted since then so I don't know how by February March we're totally out of a salary line item that that's just no offense poor management sorry everyone I am back yeah bill I agree that um without a doubt I don't think that Mr plant is a really great bookkeeper but he's phenomenal with the animals which is what we got him for he's he's in charge of the department and that's that's sadly one of the roles in being in charge of a department is you sadly have to keep track of the hours so is it possible that throughout the year and maybe Mike since you you know managed that department you would be able to speak to it I mean what happened were there extreme situations that happened throughout the year that was um you know using more of their time than what they assumed they would need well a lot of the time is based um on weekend coverage and so all I can assume is that there were weekends where Brian didn't think that he would need the coverage but due to circumstances whether um there were animals in the shelter that weekend that needed to be taken care of um he had to have her come in so they're open seven days a week yes um Joe you had a question yes sorry so Mike if I remember correctly like they aren't completely out of money yet right this wasn't the expectation of what they would need in a little while to cover the rest of the year for the part-time now they are out of money okay all right and they were going to need the money because he was going to have to take some of his vacation time or lose it correct correct anyone else have um comments or discussion about this Madam chair yeah Cody um Mike can you just give a brief overview of where this money exactly was coming from what it's supposed to be used for um my maybe my understanding about what this is for is incorrect but I thought this was like kind of unforeseen things that that we just needed to cover cover off and and if that's incorrect please correct me and then on another part of that is do if we use this here how much have we traditionally used year-over-year from this um and what happens if something more important than this comes up um right now you haven't used used much of your reserve fund at all you have 150 you 150,000 to start um so this would come from the reserve fund and it was as I said unforeseen is it unforeseen though to expect that there's going to be if the shelter's open seven days a week and you've got a part-time person to Bill's point I I was under pretty clear understanding going into this that the budget was just shorted so we we have a budget we don't get to just come back and say well the reserve fund we're now going to use the reserve fund which is meant for unforeseen things this was foreseen it was just un under budgeted whether that was intentional or not you know if we're pulling from these Reserve funds now for something that was just poorly managed it it should have been managed better and I I just don't I don't understand why we would need to pull from Reserve fund for something like this Madam chair yeah Joe um so Cody I'm gonna take I'm going to play Devil's Advocate a little bit which is um every year we need to cut budgets and I I can't say for certain but I suspect this budget was cut last year um so you know I I understand what what you guys are saying about mismanagement and trying to plan and and so on um but there is the possibility I'd have to go back and check that this budget was cut last year through no fault of his own yeah Mike if you could speak to that because I assume too that he probably requested a certain amount and then when you were trying to do your recommendations I'm sure you you know had a lower amount there for a recommendation correct correct this what happens can we just close the building for the weekend the problem the problem is if you have if there's animals in the shelter you can't just close it you have to take care of them and is that Brian or that's exclusively this part-time position it would be the part-time position part of that is because Brian's got some vacation time he's planning to use I think in May and June like no correct yeah Cody you said he's got five weeks of vacation I'm assuming that he gets three weeks and he rolls over two from last year and that's how he ended up with five no he has five regularly Madam CH yeah bill um not not to belabor the point um but again whether whether the budget was cut or not you still have to live within the budget so um you just can't assume because I thought this occurred like last year also you just can't assume that there's going to be a rescue every year because we have this pot of money there has to be some discipline um and and you know department managers correct me if I'm wrong their salary so you know unfortunately if they don't have the budget for the part-time person it again falls back to the manager to have to un unfortunately go in on a weekend so so I I think this is a bigger issue than just oh we you know well the other issue you have is his salary is quite a bit more than hers so if he can't take his vacation and we have to buy it out it's going to cost us a lot more than to pay her to come in and fill up fill on his vacation time M chair yeah Cody you just yeah I just shared a a a snip from the budget from last year Animal Control he got what he asked for he asked for 91 859 for Personnel Services and 14080 for charges and expenditures that's what was recommended that's what he got what are we doing thank you for sharing that Cody that's a good point I was making an assumption good to know the facts personally I would rather like if we've got the reserve fund and we need more for let's say police detail police overtime fire overtime more critical than dog officer and and we still have a dog officer we just don't have the part-time assistance of the dog officer if we don't transfer the money we still got what three months to get through two and a half months to get through so Mike try to explain to me again from James's email how if we do not transfer the 8,000 how much would it cost us in potential what did you say having to pay him out vacation or possibly layoff unemployment or something well we would have to lay her off so she would file for unemployment for um the remainder of this fiscal year and if he can't take his vacation we may have to buy his buy him out so what would those costs be compared to this 8,000 let me see if I have his e many ads on this uh calculator on this phone well his salary salary is $1,336 a week okay and he he can roll over how many weeks sorry Paul M no no that's fine 10 days 10 days okay so two weeks that would be two weeks of payout and then whatever unemployment could be actually three three weeks he can't if he can't take any you have any idea what the potential unemployment would be um sure and then it's to me it's not just the cost of the unemployment it's the fact that we have to unemploy somebody and then hopefully fill the position because he'll need to fill the position for the next fiscal year Madam chair yeah Cody um Mike I'm I'm trying to find the the budget worksheets um I'm wondering if any part of his salary includes some sort of bonus incentive and if that has paid out if that's earned if there's any kpis tied to that because obviously he's not managing his Department very well if he's this if he's $8,000 shy we gave him his budget that he asked for and we're now backing into a number to figure out do we transfer this over because it's going to end up costing us as much if not more because he didn't budget properly and if there are kpis tied to it can you pull that out of whatever incentive or bonus or whatever I just feel like if he's if if there are kpis and and he's clearly not living up to them is that something that can be offset no he doesn't he doesn't get any bonus like that Madam chair yeah can I ask what may be a really dumb question but it's not resonating in my head so I'm I'm at a loss if we hired someone parttime and and we paid them a full year salary but a little ahead of the full year why do they get unemployment it they they will get unemployment because they'll say that they were working x amount of hours a week and now they're not I mean Massachusetts Massachusetts will pay that that makes no sense to me but but you know some things in in budgeting make no sense the unemployment is earned off of the time served and the amount of hours that were worked and if you're laid off then you you get some portion of that for a certain amount of time based on qualification that's a it's a state thing we can't we can't argue it it's just but but why are we laying why are we laying off someone who again we we said we'd give you let's just say 20 hours a week for 52 weeks and that becomes X number of dollars and we fulfilled that we just did it early and we're not saying we don't want you back next year you got what you expected by taking the job we we fulfilled Our obligation to you in the job we described to you and you accept it how is that unemployment then but I don't think that she went into it assuming it would only be 52 weeks though like that would be a contract kind of temp job but but it we're not stopping the job we just paid it up front so we still want the job come July 1 but for the next X number of weeks yeah you don't have to fulfill your 20 hours a week because you already did that Madam chair yeah Cody I think if I'm understanding what bill is saying I think do we have to lay her off or can we just say we need zero hours this week and we need zero hours for the next eight weeks it's semantics I mean if when if she's not working and she's not getting paid she's going to file for unemployment I mean we don't have to say you're unemployed just don't pay her and then shell file but again we paid year yeah I I agree both it it's Madam chair yeah Paul again my concern is more than the semantics I know looking back is always 2020 Cody and um something got dropped somewhere where they ran out of money but um I just know that if I'm a homeowner and and and a dogs come after me or whatnot needs to be to put down or whatever I I prefer to have Brian Brian there or his trained part-timer than having the police or possibly the fight up getting involved trying to get into a house that has a a dog protecting the owner who needs our medical help and stuff I mean there's a lot of stuff that goes on there that the potential is there it's like having an insurance policy I hate to see it vacant for possibly you know part of May and June so that's why I wanted to bring it up again appreciate everybody taking a chance to and Mike just refresh my memory this conversation hasn't been had in the last couple of years but before that I remember this conversation having with this position and the funding and the use of funds it's this is not a new conversation with this role can you confirm that um I I know it's always been an issue just because like police and like fire you never know when he's going to be called in or someone's going to have to come in at night someone's going to have to come in off hours and cover it's it's an on call position do we usually supplement this budget in the fall like we do with police and fire or is this one always handled as a reserve fund transfer it's always been handled at the end of the year not not in the fall M chair yeah Cody I'm I'm just looking back it back at last year as it's pasted in the the chat Steve um you're over year I mean from fiscal year 21 it was 70,000 in Personnel Services it's 82,000 in22 88023 91024 I mean the increase year-over-year at this at this department level is out of sync with everything else we gave him what he asked for he didn't cover the hours like if he had been managing the time of his part-time person throughout the year and covering for the off time then we wouldn't end up with this we have two and a half months left where there's no coverage he would have been just backfilling on a day byday basis each week to make up for that short call he just mismanaged the time and the the salary that he had available to him in his budget and now he's saying I was 50% short so give me 50% more it whether we whether or not we give him this $88,000 this nonsense needs to be addressed on some level it's the the budget has increased year over year over year and it just keeps getting funded more and more and keep coming back asking for it he's he's got to he's got to learn to manage the the position better if that's if that's the case it it does it doesn't sound like moving $8,000 is going to cost us any more than $8,000 if we're having to buy them out at 1,500 a week or whatever Plus the the unemployment it sounds like it's pretty much a wash but we're we're about to be going through the budget numbers for the fiscal year 25 and we're already starting at a bad place because the numbers that we're using for anal control are actually $88,000 off if we're transferring it it's just it's frustrating that we are being asked to transfer money over for something that should be unforeseen this is not unforeseen this is mismanagement that's that's the problem I think that everyone that has voted no on this it's not about the $8,000 it's about the principle of you mismanaged your department and now you're looking for more money when we don't have more money yeah we've got a Reserve sitting there but the reserve is supposed to be for stuff that we couldn't see coming and I I'd be surprised I don't have it in front of me but I'd be very surprised if his budget was what he asked for in FY 24 Madam chair yeah Paul to Cody's point if it's a if it's a a borderline wash between the unemployment and possibly planing for Brian's time and stuff but still missing the fact that um if you haven't been on an ambulance call where there is a dog protecting an owner who needs our help it's really important to have people there that can handle that stuff so I I I I know it's frustrating to have to bail out a department but I'm thinking that I i' prefer to take another whack and a vote to try to go ahead and do it and uh let's see if Mike can put some some management Tools in place try to watch the uh use of the funds next year you know all right are we ready to vote on this again Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we transfer $88,000 from the reserve fund to the dog officer account uh 292 second second transfer 8,000 Steve no but I'd also like to understand what would cost for us for 2025 if we Outsource the entire service the entire department Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill no Paul yes Cody no Bonnie no and I am a yes we have five yes four no let me just double check that yes five yes four no all right dog officer is getting his 8,000 but next next year no no no but but I would like to see something about how much it would cost to Outsource to Outsource a dog officer the whole department yes that's an interesting concept Steve yeah I'm actually curious how that would work we just call Mansfield or adbor or Taunton or whoever's closest to the address and say can you send your dog off like how does that work yeah if we could collaborate in some way is there a SRA for Animals SRA animal Samra I imagine if it was something that Paul was mentioning uh how police would expedite the um euk Asia of the dog okay we are moving on to this to something else sorry no we are gonna discuss annual town meeting by laws okay Amendment so the the next two um articles article 19 and 18 um the these are petition articles and is Stellar on Stellar is on I believe and uh yes I'm here she can talk on uh the first article is the zoning bylaw Amendment yes do you want me to speak now hi Stella how are you good how are you thank you all for letting me join in your meeting um the reason I did these petitions was is that the lighting one that we're talking about um let let me put it up I'll share the screen so you everyone can see the article okay the first one um is Article 19 let me go down a little bit we're talking about 19 right now not 18 right okay and I I'll just read it stellar and uh then you can talk about it it's a request to see if the town will vote to amend the Norton zoning bylaws chapter 75 the general code by deleting the strike through text as follows and by renumbering accordingly article 20 lighting applicability strike out the words lighting which is in accessory use to one and two family residential dwellings yes okay that is correct that is correct please explain I'm sorry please explain sure so the reason I'm I'm putting forth this petition is under the Covenant of quiet enjoyment in Massachusetts both teny and real estate law states that the owner has the right to use and enjoy their property um like the current bylaw excludes single and multif family homes so I'm asking the town to include single and multif family home homes reason being is for the last going on three years I have had lights um flashing lights from Neighbors on my property and I've had to put up paper blind paper blinds to cover the lights it's the side of my my home it's about a the lights are about 100 feet away from our bedroom side and we can't even open our windows at night so this is the reason I I put forth this petition to to strike that the lighting laws because the police can't help me in this matter and I know a lot of it they say it's a civil matter but something like this I'm sure everybody in the town of Norton could benefit from because a lot of the lights nowadays are so bright that they're they're just so bright and it's it's really really frustrating when when you can't even open your window at night and we love living in the town of Norton we've been here since 2010 so I just want to understand what kind of lighting this would be when it says lighting which is an accessory use what what does that include what kind of lighting does that include that includes it's not even like a permanent fixture it's like a it's like a light that they would they I'm just using an example from what I've experienced they lights that are they um they're charged on by solar so they're solar lighting and they're not even affixed on a home so they're affixed on like a fence or a pole in another neighbor's yard Madam chair so so the motion is generated by an animal or somebody Crossing that light so is it like a ring light like like the ring camera lights like no it's not a ring camera light at all it's just an accessory light yeah Mike um so correct me if I'm wrong Stella what you're trying to do here under article 20 lighting right now the town can regulate lighting but there's an exemption that says lighting which is an accessory used to one and two family residential dwellings is not regulated correct so I'd like to know though what what kind of lighting this could include um you know what I mean you mentioned the specific lights that your neighbors have but what I'd like to know what the lighting could include in this that could that now one and two family residential dwellings could not use anymore after we stri what what does it include on um other family homes Madam Yeah by um the lighting that came to mind that I actually assumed you were discussing is um like holiday lights I when you said they were flashing I thought maybe it was something to that effect but those are considered I would imagine those are also considered an accessory since they're not permanent and um they're put up you know for usually part of the Year some people do put them up year round yeah no it's not even like Holiday Lights I'm not even opposed to that it's the the holiday lights are fine these are just they're Char it's like a big motion light that's charged off the solar so I don't know how we could incorporate that somehow into into the light into the lighting laws and it's just like it's it's it's flashes it when it it's when an animal goes by it flashes it turns on so I don't know how that I don't know what kind of a light that lights that would be but it's just it's very frustrating when you have these lights that are flashing in your window and I'm sure I'm not the only um homeowner in Norton that's experiencing this and it's got nothing holiday lights not a holiday lights are are mild compared to what I've been what we've been experiencing Adam C oh sorry Cody's got his hand up Bill and then I'll go to you thank you madam chair um so I pulled up the uh the actual code that's being referenced here because I like to see what it is that's being changed and the the zoning code the the portion that we can't see from from what's in the warrant there um 170 subsection 175-20 -3 I think says all outdoor lighting shall conform to the following objectives and standards letter a writing levels shall be appropriate for the intended use excessive levels of light glare and light trespass will not be permitted is that what we're trying to strike what correct I I put the byw up so you can see it what what's being uh the intent is to strike out the first sentence under 175 20.2 which says that the bylaw shall apply to the construction and inst installation of outdoor lighting except that the following uses shall be exempt from regulation by this bylaw and what um Stellar is looking to do is take out a which says lighting which is an accessory used to one and two family residential dwellings which is currently exempt from the bylaw okay so it's 175 20.2 okay Madam chair yeah bill so um if if I'm reading this you know correctly so if if a home homeowner um has 150 watts or less they're okay if it's on their house but wouldn't be okay if it was on like a fence further back is that what we're trying to differentiate because I'll give an example my former neighbor she lit her house up she had four lights on the garage two lights at the front door three pole lights going down her driveway on every day that would be okay if it was less than 150 watts is that what this would say I'm I'm not sure if it was less than 150 watts but you know you know my daughter's room you know had a window facing that side and and yeah she complained about you know the light but it it seems like it's permissible so I'm trying to figure out what is GNA be permissible and what isn't yeah Madam chair yeah core so I I deal in contracts and contract language all and um so I I understand what you're going through and it certainly sounds like it sucks um what I'm what I'm concerned about here is um striking this language I don't know that it's necessarily going to accomplish what you want to accomplish but what I would say is you may want to look at 175-20 point3 below a where it says in particular the very last few words there where it says light trespass will not be permitted it sounds like that's what you're dealing with so lighting levels shall be appropriate for the intended use I don't know what the intended use is here it sounds like it's some sort of like motion light or motion sensor light that's extremely bright but the code here appears to already address the issue you're having and I don't know what the proper recourse would be um I I I just I'm weary of changing the code kind of arbitrarily without understanding what the ramifications are going to be we have a planning board and a zoning board that are specialized in in dealing with this stuff and they've got you know Town Council that at their expense to be able to um kind of work through what all of those are going to be I don't know Mike has Town Council reviewed this um Town Council has and where where it's a petition article there's not much they can do to it um it has gone to the planning board so obviously before you take any stance on it um you will get a report from them yeah Joe so I I agree with you Cody about the light dress pass part the the challenge is is that one and two family houses are exempt so they do not have to meet these standards that that's one thing I wanted to mention um again Stella I understand what you're going through I've heard po stories about these things I totally understand my concern is that if we don't exempt these then if we go back to 17520 do3 section B Ed of flood light shall not be permitted I have two flood lights on my house one is on over my garage one is over the back door they don't shine in anyone's Windows nothing like that I don't want to have to go to the planning board to get an exemption for those for those lights um I think I think what we need to understand is what accessory use really means I forget who said that somebody some a bill mention that before what falls under that um and you and do the wording in such a way that we can we can ex exempt the things that we need to exempt while still addressing Stella's concern if if at all possible that that's you what I'm I'm trying to get at here anyone else have questions or comments about this article petition article hearing nothing question so question so why why are single family homes exempt from this lighting by law I don't think we can speak to that it would be that would be a question for whoever put the bylaw in place I I don't know well is there a reason why we can't strike that and and or or somehow try to strengthen and make the law like you said better for what I'm trying to do my understanding is there's no reason we couldn't strike it if town meeting agrees to it um my concern is just the wording of it is kind of and yes we should be able to strengthen it too uh it's finding the right wording in order to do that okay and is that something that you all could help me with is that how we we would proceed from here no that wouldn't be the job of the finance committee necessarily I think that you'd want would that be zoning board that she board planning board yeah um through you st have you have you talked to the planning board about this and who's on the planning board I've I've talked to so many people has has it been presented at one of their meetings I'm doing I was supposed to do that a couple weeks ago in front of the town I'm doing it next Tuesday next Tuesday next Tuesday because it it didn't get posted in time in the paper so it got pushed out from um a week ago to next Tuesday a week a week before to next Tuesday yeah I I think it's I think it's important here that we figure out what what the define or what the definition of accessory use is I think that's a that's a critical thing here because what you're dealing with is it's specifically this entire subsection is meant to deal with exactly what you're dealing with to prevent it and to have recourse to stop it from happening it would it would shock me if like we basically said No Light flute the hell out of your neighbor if you're a single family home uh put up flashing lights and say that it's you know enoy able for you because you like raids like stupid stuff like that like the whole point of this is to be able to say this is excessive this is causing blur this is diminishing the value of my property because of the light pollution that you're creating so I I feel like there's there's probably a right answer here and the code may already address it we just may not understand it and that's where the planning board that's what they're elected to do and then the zoning board through them coming up with all these terms that's where I feel like you know once we have the the opinion from planning board and and what there is that's where you know obviously we're not voting on this tonight I I appreciate you being here it's it's going to be like planning board's going to have to tell us the ins and outs of what this change would actually mean and making sure that we're not creating additional issues down the RO that then somebody's going well that was stricken and so now I can do whatever I want whenever it it may need to be changed but the change may need to be rewarding uh in a way or like putting a definition on what accessory use is or something like that I mean that that's probably what we're we're actually looking at doing I'm sorry terrible and that would be on um on the objectives and standards is that where that would fall under is that correct yeah because the objectives and standards appears to address this the 175 20.3 a appears to address what you're dealing with and I feel like that would probably be where you would be able to go and have some sort of recourse back against your neighbor if they won't turn the lights off or reduce the glare or whatever um the code seems to be addressing it it just maybe the wording needs to be tightened up or changed or something like that but it also would still have to include single family homes in order for it to apply correct that was my understanding it's going to have to do with what the what that accessory use definition is because they're exempt from it for accessory use but it's not a defined term maybe it's a common term that's it's like common common law definition and maybe Town Council has an opinion on that or planning board knows what what their intent was there but that's unfortunately beyond the scope of the people on the call here tonight okay all right so so the town will be able to help me next Tuesday when I go present to them correct hopefully am okay perfect thank you and the other article is article 18 um and this is a bylaw Amendment and Stella do you want to talk about this um the Banning of cameras yes um the reason for this petition is the same thing I've had um I have cameras um facing my property um over a six- foot privacy fence it started out as one camera now we have four cameras facing our home and we have they've now put up signs under their cameras smile you're on camera so I don't feel again under the Covenant of crime enjoyment I feel that there it's an invasion of my privacy and I know you can take you know pictures of I know cameras are really not there's no set law on cameras but there should be because nobody should have to feel like they're surve being surveillanced their own property and that was the reason for the camera petition I put forward so Mike just explain to me what would what it what exactly is trying to happen here so is this also going to be a bylaw like an additional bylaw that she would want correct this would be um not a zoning bylaw but in the town bylaws and this would uh she said uh the request is that no cameras are permitted to be installed above a privacy fence and Madam chair so yeah go ahead through you um Mike I was just curious if you knew what the general Co General Cod uh says currently about cameras at all um when it comes to homeowners um I think Stella is probably more up to speed than me but I don't think there is anything in the code on that no there there is nothing um I know the state of Massachusetts has put something um forth they have something in writing it hasn't gone to fruition to to become a law yet I know they haven't voted on it I did look at um his article in Boston and but there is nothing right now and to me it's like just having a camera over a privacy fence or over somebody's property line should not be permitted for the purpose of videoing anybody on their property I mean we live on two acres of land and we feel like we're being surveillanced 247 and we are being surveillanced 247 right and go ahead and I don't know whether or not you have children you don't have to disclose that but if a person a homeowner were to have children um who would be out enjoying their yard and the next door neighbor has cameras over a privacy fence or into Windows I can imagine that that would be a concern for them so I do understand and and I hope you know we we ask these questions because trust us when we tell you that um town meeting will have these questions and more I mean people are generally suspicious anytime a law um that affects homeowners is going to change because they want to know how it's going to impact them and the choices that they make for their home so better that we ask you and you don't go to the trouble of presenting to um what looks to be a very uh busy town meeting um but I'd be curious to know um what other towns have adopted and the language they've used and if and if this comes from that then great to know um and and also whether or not our our attorney for the town has taken a look at it to be able to compare and I'd imagine that's what they would do as well um because I I think you just want to have as people were suggesting with the previous article have it be as airtight as possible when you present it to the town um because our questions and our way of approaching it is going to be a lot um maybe more I don't know even keeled um kind of looking at it from both sides and other people might be a bit more defensive so I just want to make sure that you have all the information that you need to be able to explain that to people when you present it I haven't found anything um in the state of Massachusetts at all for any camera laws and I I know there's other through the research that I've done there's other states that do have something on the books for privacy laws I don't have that information with me it was just stuff that I had looked up research before I you know went forward with this Adam CH so can I just I just wanted to talk real quick after Bonnie um so Stella the first thing I'm thinking of is just we we live in this day and age where like everyone has a ring camera everyone does um it's just kind of like a thing that you know people are trying to protect their property that you know they want to be able to see you know make sure they Amazon packages and getting stolen whatever um so like I just think myself so like I'm thinking of where I am my ring camera is and you know I think it happens to kind of look over at one of my neighbors like yards it can kind of see part of their property for sure but where we need to see it to be able to see kind of our like backyard coming into our side door and our like driveway I can't imagine that I could like move it and be able to you know be able to still use it if this law went into effect um and you know personally that would affect me if I wasn't able to have that anymore um so I'm just I guess I'm just kind of curious at like what the repercussions could be for everybody who has all these ring cameras um if this law went into effect it's really unfortunate what you're specifically dealing with it sounds like this person is definitely crossing a line to like literally look into your property um I don't know it can exclude I mean Ring cameras don't even cover I mean I have a ring camera it's not ring it's by Arlo it's a different brand but it does the same thing but the ring camera kind of faces your front walkway I'm just talking more privacy like backyard side of the house cameras that are intentionally facing your property to basically surveillance you when you're trying to you know enjoy your backyard I'm just like intentionally can't and we can maybe write the um article like to exclude ring cameras I've also when I wrote this up I also did ex exclude Laur enforcement from it because they should be able to surveillance anybody to perform their duties so it can be rewarded a little bit but I mean I'm just talking like intentionally pointing the cameras at your property CH Paul go ahead so Stellar I have perimeter cameras around my house they to protect the perimeter of my house and they have a good view of everything right around my house I suppose if I were to zoom in I'm not sure how the quality of the camera is my neighbors are far away but um but my intention isn't to suril any of my neighbors it's to S my own property in case there's any kind of vandalism or anything like that that goes on and you talking about these cameras that your neighbors have are mounted on their house and you're concerned because they have the potential of seeing over your fence no they they are actually uh Paul fa U mounted above our 6ot privacy fence facing our yard okay right up against your fence correct wow um I have because I have cameras as well on the side of our house facing the perimeter of our property just for the fact that um for like that for protection I don't intentionally have them facing somebody's home to physically watch them 247 mam chair yeah Joe I think um I think the intent to harass annoy or threaten the person of property Clause actually covers both you and Paul I mean it doesn't sound like either in those cases that it's intended to actually surveil your neighbor it's it's for security purposes so I think that that would cover that or at least I hope it would um but yeah you know we we again would want the Clause to be kind of as specific about that as possible I think I think Stella you've done a pretty good job of trying to do that um on a completely different note just for your information they do sell uh their ultraviolet devices that you can point at those cameras which renders them useless ultravet devices they are yeah it does something to sends out some sort of ultraviolet light which messes with the camera lens or or something like that and basically all they get is a what looks like a bright light um and essentially you know uh causes them not to be able to do what they're trying to do I'll have to look into that but see with my luck I would get caught and I would get arrested I don't think those are illegal they're not okay is on the is on the line he can he can chime in there and let us know okay I'll look into that all right anyone else with questions for Stella comments on article 18 hearing nothing do we want to vote on article 18 or is Stella you also presenting this one to the planning board or this wouldn't be related I'm presenting this one too as well next Tuesday all right then we should definitely wait on our vote agreed yeah okay no one else has any questions for Stella we can let her back to enjoy her evening good luck good luck hopefully without bright lights flashing in your window so after I meet with the planning board what happens then because this is all new to me so yeah so we'll at a future meeting after that meeting I think we may have a meeting on the schedule for next Wednesday we definitely have one for the Monday after on the 29th um you know we will then discuss it again and um at that point we could we could vote to recommend or not recommend okay the meeting okay M Madam chair yeah Joe Stella just so that you're aware of what happens at town meeting um Paula mentioned whether or not we recommend that just means that whether or not we recommend it would say whether or not we recommend that or not on the town warrant that does not mean that you can't bring it up it just means that we won't make the motion but you are free to at town meeting yeah good point Joe yeah if we end up deciding to not recommend and yes you would have to move your article at town meeting as opposed to us moving it for you and there being an open discussion about it so I can still I still have to present next Tuesday compling board yes yes yeah yeah I'm I'm just saying if if when you come back with the modified wording for whatever reason if if this board voted quote unquote to not recommend one or both of the of the articles it would remain on the warrant at town meeting we would not move it Paula wouldn't move it from from the stage but you could still make that motion when when the topic came up as part of the the town meeting okay Madam chair yes Bonnie I mean we'll have another meeting where we discuss this before voting so um you're welcome to attend that one as well um but I would also say that Mr stud can help you with understanding sort of the process as well as um referring you to the town moderator so that they know to expect that you will move it so that you aren't standing there wondering what you're supposed to do next and if there if he's expecting it then he'll know to be looking for you rather than move on that makesense so can we at some point um talk in U further about this U Mr Unice yes um right after uh you have the planning board meeting we'll get together on Tuesday okay yeah and um should I email you or you can I give you my cell phone number now or um drop me an email you don't have to give your cell phone over okay what your email this is a recorded meeting don't do that munits y nit TS Norton us.com perfect so I will reach out to you on uh Wednesday after my meeting okay thank you very much everybody for listening to me and giving me recommendations uh I appreciate it thank you Stella enjoy your night thank you you too bye bye bye Madam chair yes Paul just um for clarification what is the um reasoning behind the finance committee actually having input In nonfinancial Articles is that just all been I wish I knew so from what from what I've been told back when I joined this because I had that same question um when I was uh thinking about joining the finance committee um we recommend or don't recommend all articles on the warrant so we're called the finance committee other towns call us advisory boards or advisory committees um so yeah not just Financial implication articles yes Cody it's it's under the charter that the finance committee vote on all articles there's the simple answer yeah this didn't make any sense to me Cody you know it's like okay you know we are we are misnamed um yeah for sure the warrant article committee all right um next I want to see if you would um reconsider article 11 um afterwards and talking with the uh Council on Aging director um she had asked that uh the revolving fund be upped to 20,000 under the C on Aging revolving fund you approv 10,000 okay what would be the reason for the increas her reasoning is that um with the potential for renting out the facility um that should have more Revenue coming in and more expenses so we would have to vote to reconsider to discuss this again correct yes yeah okay theair would entertain a motion yes Joe uh I make a motion that we reconsider is it article 11 article 11 yeah reconsider article 11 second okay Motion in a second to reconsider article 11 uh Steve yes Trace yes yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul Madam chair just a quick question the weol fund would still have to come back to town meeting with someone to to approve the use of the Money Mike say that again Paul the $20,000 evolving fund for the Council of Aging she doesn't have cop lunch like a uh um like a fund that you can just dip into any time she still G to come back to time meeting or somewh to move that money or no no it would be uh she would be able to expend up to 20,000 so it's like a slush fund for right yeah right now we're just voting to reconsidering discuss yep I'm sorry yep yes Cody yes Bonnie yes I two a yes okay now we can have the discussion questions concerns okay Madam chair yes fine like there's the 20,000 under the recycling revolving fund that's highlighted in red is that at all a discussion or are we just looking at raising the council and aging from 10 to 20 just the council and aging M chair yes Cody if these Mike if these are revolving funds why do they have to have a cap on them because it's it's literally ins and outs right you collect it spend it on what you collected it for I I don't know why some of the financial laws are are established the way they are but that that's State requires why why 20 why not 50 like why why do we care if they're collecting money for a specific thing that then goes into the account that then they have to spend on what they collect did it from a why do we care what limit is on it like why are we setting it at 20 and not 30 or 50 or 100 like why does it matter yeah um I I would say you could set it at 20 now and then we'll see how much revenue is generated next year and What expenses she had and see if there's any need to go higher mam chair you have an idea of what this is like is it is it establishing one or it's increasing the limit on it and what exactly I get it for the recycling because that's very specific but for Council on agent for instance what like what is that so it's it would be used um so if they rent out space um things they need um say they're renting out the kitchen and uh you know supplies that they may have to buy or cleaning that they may have to do so if uh someone comes in at night and we have to have a maintenance person there you know during the time they're there this could be used to pay that maintenance person yes Joe I don't want to take it away from you Joe I'm just that's a lot different than holding a recycling event and charging people and then using those funds to pay for the recycling things that are collected I feel like the Council on Aging piece of it who supervises that to say well you charged or you collected $5,000 to rent off the space but you had to pay somebody overtime to come in and do the cleaning so that's going to get paid off from that that's built into a budget for service and upkeep and they just kind of use this for whatever they may need later on but it's it seems like a difference where you're creating a scenario where they have to use Paul's term a slush fund which I'm not comfortable setting up so Joe real quick if I can just say something so yeah I to Cody's point I just I also assumed that like the revolving fund for Council on Aging for instance would be something like when they're charging um the individuals like I don't know $50 to go to Foxwoods and then they're using that money to pay for the Foxwoods trip something like that I understand as a revolving account and and that that is part of it too um okay when they if they go to Foxwoods they collect a fee and they pay for the boss and things like that out of it Joe go ahead sorry the fund did exist before we're just up in it from 10 to 20 because of the potential for the new building so two things one in my notes um when we met geez what date was this on March 25th we had already raised it from 10 to 15,000 I think that was one thing uh and second is this the kind of thing Mike where if if she ends the year with 22,500 that extra 2,500 would then go back to free cash right that's why we don't want to go higher okay chair yes Cody Mike are there regulations on what exactly could go into this because I I'm having a hard time with the rental of this public space whatever funds are received from that going into a revolving fund to be used just by the director of that one Department as opposed to going in to like how does that I know we don't do that for schools right for the running of the fields they don't have revolving time that it goes into right I yes they do yeah they do they do yeah oh yeah but they use it for maintenance of the fields is that is that ear marks like how revolving account yeah but it's it's a I mean it's for maintenance of the fields yeah the difference there is you've got a school committee that's overseeing the expenditures of that budget versus here you have a select you have a select board overseeing the expenditures is a warrant was this a like a specific scenario that they it let's say we don't raise it let's let's say we keep it at 15 the excess funds for the the rent if they go to if they're sitting on 15,000 and the accounts flush I don't like it's not going to cost that much more for the maintenance and upkeep or you know to face somebody overtime to come in and clean it I I just don't know why it would need to be raised specific for the maintenance and upkeep associated with Ral fees mam chair yeah Paul yeah Mike just a quick question if I heard you right so the revolving fund If they raise you know $10,000 on a u um some kind of a fundraiser deal that they do and that goes into the revolving fund I would think that would carry over year to year that wouldn't get dumped into free cash I'm not sure yeah yeah you're right I was wrong on that thank you even if it's over the limit yes can't spend over the 20,000 I see so you know like I said it's for trips yoga classes anything they bring someone in um that people pay for they'll pay for that service out of the revolving fund here yeah Cody uh I'm not hearing anything that's indicating to me that we need to raise this based on that if they can collect the funds and it sits there but in What scenario they needing to expend more than $20,000 it sits there but they can't spend above the limit so like this year her limit is 10 and she's almost at that limit now if she hits 10 then that's it they can't do any any more programs through the revolving fund for the rest of this year I mean I don't see what I don't see what the drawback is just to allow them to spend 20,000 out of something where they're raising the funds to run programs mad uh yes Joe so Mike is is that $20,000 per year or $20,000 per event oh yeah Bonnie I think you spoke up too yeah I mean I I thought I was understanding it in terms of um having been the director of the uh Park and Recreation Department um you know we would for example sell tickets to something like the snowflake social or whatever it's called now and then we would pay the DJ if that was a thing or pay for the pizza or pay for the expenses out of the same so a lot of times it was a net zero type situation um but you need to have a place to put it and you need to have a place to take it from when it comes time to pay those bills same with say a police detail for the Easter egg hunt or um buying the chocolate that or the candy that goes in the Easter eggs um however I didn't realize that it was in terms of only being able to spend up to that amount because the amount goes up and down throughout the um throughout the year and so um obviously we didn't spend over the amount that we had or I would have heard about it but um from M um but I think it does make a difference that that is the extent to the amount that they can spend and if they are able to raise that amount I do think that they should be able to spend it so um you know we know that um the Council on Aging and Human Services I assume that this can also be used for Human Services as well Mike correct me if I'm wrong yeah say that again can this this revolving fund be used for things that are for Health and Human Services related or is it just for the council and aging um this is just for the Council on Aging I don't know if she can use it for the Human Services but a lot of times kind of over Human Services things and cost and things inter yeah yeah so it's an underfunded department and um if they can raise I mean everything's in under funded department but if they can raise uh their own money through things that they fundraisers they do then I think they should be able to spend it um on their own programs I agree with Bonnie with that uh was that Steve it was okay um Mike what controls are in place to review the expenses that are being made um James the town accountant reviews everything and prepares a warrant that the select board then have to approve and I have to approve before we pay any bills that's on any that's on any dispersement they make from this account yes okay anyone else have questions yes Cody um thanks mate that it's helpful to know that so this it's the same thing like the um what we just did on the dog officer essentially that goes to it has to go through select board and you so you have to approve it then it goes to select board select board has to approve it before it get get paid out of the revolving account correct um so I'm back to my original question why why do we why why why are we capping with the 20,000 like if it's all if it's all accounted for it's it's their money they've raised it they like for whatever programs she's at 10,000 hopefully she gets a lot more programs for the uh for the seniors in the new new center I don't know hearing to speak a couple weeks ago it doesn't sound like that's going to be the case um but I mean it's 20,000 and enough I guess if that's all what being asked for I'm fine with it for whatever we're doing here okay not hearing any other questions or comments at this time shair would entertain a motion to recommend the increase for the Council on Aging from our original increase was 15,000 to 20,000 would we now be increasing 10,000 to 20,000 Mike um it doesn't matter we just say 20,000 yeah Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we increase the spending limit on the Council of Aging revolving fund to $20,000 do we need to specify no other changes to any of the others since it's a larger article without changing any of the other amounts we had already changed the um recycling one I think to the 20 didn't we yeah that was the last time yeah yes so Mike we don't have to mention recycling again this is just okay all right so motion second okay all right Steve yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes I two yes nine yes for article 11 20,000 for CUA thank you um let's switch to special time meeting okay and the first article is prior year bills and we have um one bill from uh KP law $1,649 85 um I don't know how it slipped through the cracks this was for a year ago March and uh I I received an email from Joe Fair recently um mentioning that it had not been paid and we discovered it wasn't and so I'm asking that 10,700 $1,649 185 from free cash fund this prior year Bill yes Cody um Mike so how does this does this ultimately get it get like retroactively added into the budget carryover from last year because again they trying to figure out how much we have actually spent on legal fees last year and the year before and all that whenever we're looking forward I mean this so This 10,000 was supposed to be in last year's we now have to use the special time meeting to fund it presumably from free cash um is that does it have to come from free cash because the reserve fund that we have set aside is only for fiscal year 2014 this is for bills that have already expired in the prior fiscal year right so um it has to go to town meeting and it has to be a two-thirds vote and um The Reserve fund that you have is for um FY 24 bills and this should be for the previous year and we already turned that FY 23 Reserve fund yes do we know where this slipped through the crash like what was it what was it for and why was it only coming through now um I don't know how it's it slipped through the cracks whether somehow the email got into junk email and wasn't uh spotted but that's all I can figure so did did the law firm bring it to your attention that the was never paid yes so it wasn't something James discovered no but I assume so I assume if we had paid it back a year ago um probably would have had to give them more in free cash to supplement that fall is that that make sense right because if we would have been even more under I mean over the budget right you might have had to use more of the reserve fund uh last year yeah yeah Mike I don't know how much it matters but do do you know what this was it a single bill or was it a couple of bills like what what this was actually for um one bill for yeah General legal service General label Services comprehensive permits PRI Union negotiations rail trail project marijana was like a period of time right yeah town meeting number of different things on there okay anyone else have I don't know how much we can actually debate this we have to pay our bill right just OD but it's so late in coming through especially since it sounds like there was a lot of things over a long period of time that they waited to bill us on and then I don't think they waited to bill us on it they just sent the bill and we didn't see it sounds like well pwn meeting was on there it was pretty great well I don't know they send them out every quarter how how do they usually build yeah every every month so this was uh for services through March 31st of 2023 and it was dated April 30th of 2023 so they would have been reviewing the warrant and everything leading up to town meeting is it sorry is this would we normally address this in Fall town meeting whenever we have something that misses fisical year closed like if we knew if we knew about it in the fall and show we definitely would have okay chair yes Joe uh Mike I missed part of what you said early on and I want to make sure when I actually get to the motion that I've got are you only asking for the 10,649 85 there was another number you mentioned but I didn't I missed what that was for no just the $1,649 185 okay any other discussion on transferring from free cash to pay this prior of Bill hearing none I'll entertain a motion to vote on this mam chair yes chair I make a motion that to that we recommend uh article one of the special town meeting warrant to pay unpaid bills and the sum of $1,649 185 to be transferred from free cash second right Motion in a second Steve yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes hey I to a yes n yes for article one of special town meeting all right thank you so the next articles four five six and seven all of them I would recommend no action um article four would be to supplement um the uh water Enterprise budget article five would be to uh supplement the sore Enterprise budget six would be um Appropriations into the capital Improvement fund and seven would be any amendments to the capital Improvement plan for FY 24 Mike why were these articles originally on the special town meeting warrant um they're always on there just in case okay all right so we have to do it one at a time um and you want to have any discussion before we go to the vote to recommend no action Madame chair we we can't just collectively say 4567 no action no can we you can oh okay I like that thanks Bill Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we recommend no action on articles four five six and seven of the special town meeting warrant second right motion to Second four articles let's go yes Trace yes Sandy yes Joe yes bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes times 4 I too am a yes times 4 okay recommend no action articles 4 through 7 special time meeting okay article 8 is an article to amend uh the town Charter under section one and section two get to that so um under section one of the charter this article would change um the second sentence that to say the select board shall appoint the town manager to serve for a term of up to five years and shall fix the compensation for such person annually within the amount appropriated by the town the change there is um putting in a time uh of five years a term of five years right now it says the select board shall appoint the town manager to serve for an indefinite term that would be the change on that section and the next section it's changing um the first sentence in the next section says that the select board by the affirmative votes of four members May terminate and remove or suspend the town manager from office in accordance with the following procedure and um the change here um is adding a sentence the non reappointment of the Town manager at the conclusion the town manager's term of appointment shall not be considered a removal within the meaning of this section Madame chair yes Bill Mike didn't there used to be a portion of this it said that the select board or select Mana at probably the time um had to give a certain period of notification that they were going to like not reappoint is has that changed or no um that isn't something that's changing just these things these two items so did do they conflict in any way I mean at at what point if if they were to say after what year we in you know 20 29 hey Mike nice knowing you but we're not going to up up the contract again how much notice do they need to give you um right now I believe it's a year a year I'm not sure I don't have the contract in front of me I'm trying to see if there's anything in the charter just trying to make sure that the there isn't a conf at some point that we're not addressing um and Mike so for section two um there would still need to be four members of the select board that would have to be in the agreement to for the non reappointment of the Town manager am I reading that correctly I think that's what this is trying to change um th this is only for termination and what it's saying is that uh the non reappointment of the Town manager is not considered a removal under this section okay so it could be three to two to not um reappoint but it would need to be for select board members to remove manager Madam chair yes Sandy I think the point of this was to bring it so there wasn't a conflict with with the contract right that that this brings it in line um so and in the case of a uh non- reappointment that would probably defer to the contract versus the charter okay I believe that was the goal I remember from the last time around that we that we tried something similar to this m chair yes Cody that that was also my understanding was this was put forth by the select board to align the charter with the Contra like the contractual language um I think the last someone correct me if I'm wrong I thought the last uh thing we dealt with was them trying to move it from four to simple majority I think there was some discussion around now at one point but um my understanding on this is L because I've heard to the great bom M but you're not going to stay with us forever so as as we approach the end of your contractual term just cleaning up the charter but going forward when we're looking at a replacement we're not in the situation where every five years you've been to do this like forth than mam CH yeah Paul so Mike this almost reminds me of like spot zoning I thought we had a chter review commission that every so many years is supposed to review the charter and stuff and here we are kind of pigeon hole in one little aspect of it and it just reminds me of stuff that we don't like to do as far as zoning goes I'm not sure you know why we're going to pick it apart a Paca like this or not Madam chair yes Sandy to answer Paul's question there was supposed to be a charter review a few years ago and the select board voted not to have said review um it was postponed because of the charter commission and then they decided not to do the 10year review so I think it's I don't know when it's going to be done next oh thank you yeah I thought it was supposed to be a review that years yeah so 10 years has passed and we still haven't had the the committee there's something that happens on years ending in zero and years ending in five I'm not I don't have it in front of me so I'm not sure if someone does remember I don't know if you remember Sandy yeah I know that the charter committee was supposed to be every 10 years so I think that would have been ending in zero um I don't remember what the five was but I'm not sure at this point if we're waiting to 2030 or what so I guess I would say to Paul's question I'm not sure that we want to wait if if there's something we want to clean up now it's it's probably best just clean it up any else don't answer questions for article 8 Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we recommend article 8 of the special town meeting to amend the town Charter as it reads in the warrant second okay Motion in a second go the vote Steve St we'll come back to him okay Tracy Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes I to me yes Steve do you hear me you want to vote on article 8 of special town meeting all right not here in Steve so8 yes for article 8 right next any Jared has been waiting patiently hi Jared how you doing good how are you good um Jared is seeking $25,000 from free cash uh for culet replacement in Road materials and surface treatment and uh Jared can explain uh what's happened this year and why he has this request yeah so I was looking for this as a onetime ask just to cover some of the costs of the unexpected um issues that arose over the past couple months with all the rain we've gotten in the water table few of them that come to mind was a a collapse of the calt on West H Street um the issue on barrows Court which we did some work on the some of the drainage pipes west of that neighborhood and um Summer Street as well which hasn't been addressed yet and it's probably not going to get addressed until this next fiscal year so I was looking for this amount of money just to Again cover all the cost of these repairs that are exceeding my budget um I wasted almost half of my road materials just on the west dodes replacement and is actually another portion of that Culver a separate pipe just rust of that one I replaced that's probably the same it's the same repair as what I did on the portion to the east so you're looking at another 10 to 12,000 just on that one but this 25 would cover that as well Jared yeah it's it kind of roughly sums up the three projects that I know of with a small small like a couple thousand dollar buffer on some of the ones that I you know there's other issues obviously out there did you um looking at your I I don't have it in front of me but your budget for fy2 are you um are we trying to account for the possibility that we may have more flooding again this next year um and the possibility that those you know expenses would go up again with having to replace more culverts yeah I figured taking a case by case with more you know Prov um I did ask for an increase in the budget for my materials obviously there's not a lot of money going around for anybody I think they did increase it by a small margin which would help again um just trying to get ahead of some of the issues and you know if I ran into another West hogers hogers Street situation at the same time I did that would have been the whole Road materials and you know there's also other work that we do routinely you know maintaining catch Pati is about 2500 in the town a lot of them are old block um you know replacing the pre-cast as they fail or try to replace them before they fail so that's what I'm coming at it from and I I think um Madam chair one one of the reasons um Jared's looking for this article is that it is isn't it uh exceptional year or rain you know we've been setting records which ended up causing problems with these culverts and part of the issue is that um he has to wait until the water table goes down to do a lot of this work and if this comes in an article and he can't finish a culvert before June 30th the money is still there if it's in an article so he can continue the work after June 3 ready finish the job okay anyone else have questions or comments for article 9 Madam chair yeah Cody just um to that point Mike the the procedural procedural side of this um so these are like earmarked funds that transfer into a special account that that have to be utilized for the specific purpose as defined in the artical yes and is there I mean the the wording in that um Pate replacement Road materials I mean it's it's kind of broad um I just I I would want to make sure that it like whatever it's in there that we're not uh that it's going specifically towards this purpose um and any ongoing like expenses uh would still be within the annual budget and we're we're tracking those um as opposed to setting aside something that kind of be used for everything or anything um that's that's my only concern there this is exactly what I think free cash should be going towards is this kind of thing um but my concern there is the word in it for p replacement Road materials like Road materials that's that's an annual budget thing for the highway department um I just don't know if like the wording on that it seems to be like the intent of this is for repairing the Cs and replacing CS making sure that it's that like the the funds that are set there are specific to that and not necessarily a way to not Jo I'm not saying that you're doing this but not like to fudge the numbers where you could say well we're saying around 25,000 and then we can just kind of we can pull from that on a Case by case basis it's not necessarily for for CT it it just looks like the way it's worded right now that's how it could be used and it's a lot harder from an annual budget perspective to account for this because we still don't have the full list of all the you know this the E marked uh budgets that are out there um and I I don't want to create another issue like that where we're taking 25,000 to I I think this is exactly what we should be using PR Cas for I just want to make sure that it's like the definition of what we're setting it up for is is tightened up D yeah Joe um can we solve Cody's concerned by changing the wording to say uh it's not up there anymore but uh costs associated with CT replacement is that specific enough for you Cody yeah I I it's almost like rewarding it to say for Road materials surface treatment time wide including incident uh uh in relation to cul replacement maybe like that if that makes sense because it's saying the way it's right now it's like for c replacement or Road materials and surface treatment townwide including all those various other things instead of like if we reordered that I think it might tighten that up a little I agree Jared do you want to comment on that do go ahead no sorry I was just going to say that that's fine um yeah because that is the intent of it was for the the CTS it's just the wording probably is confusing but obviously with that type of job you have Road you have materials such as gravel F grated base asphalt which is surface treatment so it's just it's just semantics and if it makes sense to clean up that language then yeah makes sense so Mike would we need Town Council to reward this would we vote to recommend it based on what we want to reward it as yeah you could you could do that what um I think I'm hearing um let me get the article back up so um 25,000 for C Culvert Replacements and all necessary Road materials and surface treatment as part of of covert replacement projects too related to yeah could say like for all incidental and related costs for the Culvert replacement projects okay yep that would be good Adam chair yes Joe so moved what you just said okay I'm just going to repeat it again the sum of 25,000 for all incidental and related costs for the Culver replacement projects that way we can let Jared go so that he can replace that battery in his his uh smoke detector that would be driving me crazy by now okay motion a second to recommend article 9 as amended Steve Steve we got a yes from you maybe yes all right yes Tracy yeah can you hear me yes I heard you Steve got you um Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes all right I to am a yes all right thank you Jared have a good evening thank you all right do we want to tackle some budgets why not the first uh group would be from miscellaneous Town officers and board expenses finance committee zoning board tree Warden and Memorial and vet day all right you gonna pull that up Mike I am you can't see it so this is the 1% budget for these um accounts so we have to discuss each one separately and then vote on each one separately right okay all right opening discussion for the miscellaneous Town officers and board expenses accounts with the 1% budget and the first is finance committee 1,000 Personnel Services and 32020 charges and expenditures are we waiting for discussion yes discussion for for this account I'm waiting for Joe to make a motion I'm happy to do that if there's no discuss mad yes it's a reduction year over year so I'm I'm happy with just moving forward with it Madam chair yes Joe uh hopefully I get this right uh I make a motion that um we accept the finance committee budget number 131 um line 510 for Personnel Services for for $1,000 and line 570 charges and expenditures for $320 for a total of $1,320 Madam chair yes bill before I say second um did we do the math like we discussed last non-joint meeting as to whether that thousand which is that supposed to cover minute taking whether that's enough yeah I mean I don't think it will be but this is what we're facing with the 1% budgets that was sent to you um can you see that so um what I figured was nine meetings usually for the spring town meeting and four for the fall and uh two and a half hours per meeting depending you know some will be longer some will be shorter to uh do the minutes yeah this is very conservative that's the L of yeah well thank you and I guess I'll say second hey Motion in a second to recommend the finance committee's budget of $1,320 he Steve yes Trace yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes I two of me yes all right all right next up Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the zoning board of appeals budget uh account 177 uh line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $300 for a total of $300 second Steve yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes yes Cody yes Bonnie yes yes next up tree Warden I'm chair yes Joe make a motion that we accept the tree Warden budget account 294 line 510 for Personnel Services in the amount of $2,000 for a total of $2,000 second motion a second Steve yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie Bonnie I said yes oh sorry I didn't hear you I yes okay mornings mam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the memorial and Veterans Day uh budget count 692 line 570 for other charges and expenditures to the amount of $1,000 for a total of $1,000 second motion a second to Steve yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes I two yes okay all right for these accounts next is um fixed and shared so um I also sent you um a calculation on this for unemployment benefits and employee benefits so um what that will show is um I've reduced the health insurance um due to the layoffs that have been indicated will happen and I've increased the unemployment to 34 $1,266 and I can bring those up if you want yeah that would be great Mike okay so obviously um we don't know um who's getting laid off um so I use 10 family plans and nine individual plans figuring the estimated reduction in premiums of $279,995 and on the other side of that is the unemployment and uh the maximum we weekly benefit of unemployment is $1,033 estimated layoffs 19 so the total expense per week is 19,6 127 and to get us through to November 1st that's 18 weeks uh 353,000 else so in October we'll have a good idea probably uh of what our unemployment will be and whether we can reduce this or have to increase it we'll know then Madam chair yeah Bill uh Mike on the unemployment is that an honor System or do we somehow get notified if Bill rotundi who got laid off on July 1 gets a job or does Bill rotundi need to call you and say hey I got a job um so the state tracks that so um I don't know how they do but we receive a bill from the state each month and uh if someone's receiving a paycheck they're going to find out I don't know how they do but we don't we just receive a bill from the state and we review it and if we heard through the great line that someone else had a job we would appeal it thank you yeah there's also a word for that it's called frauds upon that good point just good point but Mike what quick question on that I know during Co there was quite a bit of Fraud and nobody really reviewing the unemployment are we in a better spot now of our oversight and review of that unemployment line expense we yeah no we review it every month and uh anything we see on there that's fraud we call it out and uh we appeal it m sure yeah Cody Mike um where's the estimated layoffs of 19 coming from um that's what the superintendent said at the meeting uh last week if would the one 29.4 29.4 plus you were saying one from Highway um I I can't recall if there was anyone else that you were you were discussing uh the driver well that position isn't filled right now okay yeah I thought there was the highway the no we don't have the public nurse so that 29.4 definitely is what Jen said yeah she said 29.4 but I think and some of that was because they have um expected retirements that have been announ so that was it was 29.4 after retirements that they aren't back throwing that's what I wrote down and then I know you mentioned one Highway Department position but I don't and I can't recall you mentioned a few other ones but I can't recall if any of those are currently F like the driver for councel on Aging which apparently isn't filled the public health nurse which we know isn't filled filled I thought there was one other one no and the highway isn't filled right now okay so it's not a layoff it would be just leing it into okay yeah Paul Mike did we actually get a um a comprehensive 1% budget from the school if that's all it goes up or just the uh quick figures that they gave us at the last meeting um just just the figures from the last meeting be nice to see that all right do we W to delve into the fixed and shared maturing debt the first one Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the maturing debt budget um account 711 uh line 590 for maturing principle on long-term debt in the amount of 3,4 97,3 48 and line 594 repayment of temporary loans in the amount of $1,314 for a total of $3,598 $3,598 662 second I don't hear him does everyone else not hear him too hope hopefully it's not just me I I heard I heard bill yeah okay all right Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes to yes Steve you want to vote on maturing debt budget not hearing Steve all right eight yes for maturing debt okay interest um chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the interest budget uh count number 750 line 590 in interest on long-term debt in the amount of $2,428 120 and line 594 interest on notes in the amount of $ 29,8 for a total of $2,442 685 back okay motion a second per interest looks like Steve's having a bad connection Steve vote on this one all right Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes okay sorry Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes two me yes okay employee benefits that 8 to zero Paul yes it was um I think Steve's connection's going out Madam chair yes Cody just before before we go into employee benefits and unemployment um if those numbers are going to change because the the number of blowoff and all that is not accounted for correctly I just don't want to go down there the pass here we're voting on we just not to rec considered I agree right I agree too if it's based on 19 and not the 29 we want to skip employee benefits and unemployment for now move on to miscellaneous yes all right um Madam chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the miscellaneous budget account 9 40 U line 540 fuel expenses in the amount of $154,000 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $971,000 wow I can't talk tonight 1,125 1865 that good can I ask a question before uh um do we discuss the charges and expenditures line item what that entails that that's all the other insurances right okay yep thank you for your reminder V Steve you there okay Tracy yes Sandy yes Jo yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes yes okay what do we got next Mike uh fixed in general government and this is the reserve fund Legal Services tax title foreclosure elections Southeast Regional planning and economic development and the town report okay does anyone want to have any discussions on these before voting um Madam chair yeah Cody um on the reserve fund I know we haven't spent much of that U so far this year we just approved 8,000 more tonight on it but um is that something that we can tighten up and put towards like reallocating some of that um into other places if it makes sense um I I guess the the biggest question I have there is like why in fiscal year 23 were we at 148,000 in the year before it was 27 like do we really need 119,000 could we do it with a 100 and then let's say uh in our last meeting the 17,000 number came up for the for the live day to get certification like could we pull 17 from us on the uh Reserve fund and reallocate that into the into the library I just I don't think that there's if if we're not going to use it like earmarking it and setting it aside I I would just think it would make more sense to put it to good use instead of kind of holding off on it yeah Mike what what are your thoughts on that um you can do that obviously um if I don't know if you be you could be cutting it close I mean 100,000 I don't think it's you know much different than 119 318 so if you want but if it could mean s for the library of what they really really need I'm I'm just thinking from like we're we're tightening the belt across the board so transfers from the reserve fund are going to have to be very well documented the department heads need to be on notice that your budget is what it is and this is unforeseen circumstances not mismanagement of funds and I feel 100,000 would be enough and I'd rather take 17 from the reserve fund and stick it in getting the the library um certified and and I don't have the actual like it was 17 and change I don't know the actual number it was 17,100 17,100 Tracy so you heard I'm looking back in my notes how does everyone else feel about being a little bit more conservative here with the reserve fund and using that money elsewhere where we know we need it right now I WR down 17,100 certified doing that sorry Bill um you know I I I feel for the library but in this 1% budget you know there were a lot of places that are taking potentially bigger hits the library was still certified at at the 45 hours they were trying to get to 50 at this 1% budget you know wasn't there talk of of chartley fire station closing so I don't know if it's that easy just to say well we'll take 19,000 reduce this to 100,000 and Bam liary I I I think we have bigger issues than that M I'm sureair yeah Cody um I bro I hear what you're saying I just there were no other budgets where it was an easy low number like the amount that's needed to keep chly we don't have enough to pull from anywhere um without completely gutting something and I feel like this is one since finance committee is directly responsible for how these funds are allocated and spent um um but this it just occurred to me like this is the easiest possible way that we can say listen when it comes to approval of oneoff checks we're going to have a fund of 100,000 instead of 119 and we'll take that and give it to the library like there's no way that we can take a full hundred and not have any reserve fund and say okay that's going to go to fire that's going to go to police or whoever um this one was just an easy because it's such a small number in the grand scheme of things but their 1% budget was never going to get anywhere near the 7 17,000 they needed and the 45 hours was a covid hold over they're partially certified and they will not they'll lose the partial certification as soon as the state says guess what CO's over we're done you have to be at 50 or you lose the certification so I I just feel like this is the easiest possible way that we can take money without doing the the free cash thing and playing the free cash game this is a direct thing where it's in the budget it's $100,000 every year Reserve fund like that's the amount that you have and then if anything goes above and beyond that then we're talking about you know um holding special meetings or whatever to to pull from it but you know that's this this I feel like is an it's the easiest possible way to make sure that they get what they need and it's in their budget and we're holding like we're not using 150,000 this year we're not anywhere near 119,000 so I just feel like 100,000 is enough and we could easily just reallocate the the Surplus instead of soad of not spending it and turn free cash next year go ahead and give it to them now instead of playing that free cash then chair yeah Paul um Mike um playing a little Devil's Advocate um police and fire are getting a drastic reduction in overtime right out of the gate um which again good chunk of that at least in the Fireside is done for holiday pay and stuff um they have a major emergency and they have to come back is 100,000 what's the alternative if the 100,000 is already eaten up and then they got to fight the fire you know um the only other other alternative is that there's free cash available um in May at the special time meeting and you appropriate more money to their budget through the special is like a ciruit breaker in case it was something catastrophic going on right and if I could Madam chair I think you're um you don't need to if you are going to reduce the reserve fund appropriation by to 100,000 you don't have to make a decision right now on where you're going to put it I mean that can come when the budget's reviewed for that department right yes I was going to say that right now we're just going to be voting our recommendation for the reserve fund yeah the library will come later and we can decide to increase that at that time or not and just remember the reserve fund doesn't go up by 3% every year but wherever you take money right now and put it in a budget that's going to go up but whatever percent that budget increases year overy year right M sure I just pulled up last year's budget and saw because it's not on uh what we're looking at right now um ply year 21 expenditure from Reserve fund was 879 84 22 27545 um and we we had allocated 150,000 in 22 also so and what I'll do tomorrow is I'll send you uh FY 23 Reserve funds so you can see where the 148 went yeah yeah that would be good to see but it just seems like that was like a oneoff year yeah we were we were carrying 150,000 into the um this 24 and we carried 150,000 from 22 so just Madam chair yeah Joe um just to to take a pulse do we want to wait on this budget 132 until we see Mike's figures or are we comfortable voting on this tonight what does everyone think I'm comforable 100 yeah I think I would be too but what about everybody else I'm fine with it I could go either way I think it's kind of siing one half a dozen of the other side Adam CH all right Joe I make a motion that we um I don't know if it's set or accept the uh Reserve fund budget uh count 13 line 502 for Appropriations and transfers uh at $100,000 for a total of $100,000 that okay motion a second to recommend 100 ,000 for Reserve fund Steve I'm stting I didn't hear all the conversation that internet St okay uh Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill reluctant yes Paul yes Cody yes you can always read considered I think where where it goes is yeah the bigger question you say my name Paula I did Bonnie I didn't hear it I'm sorry yes okay uh and I too am a yes so we have eight yes one obstain for 100,000 for Reserve fund we have $1,318 play with I guess woohoo ly right there oh oh man okay man chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the legal services budget account 151 line 570 for charges and expenditures uh for $70,000 and for a total of $70,000 back Steve yes Tracy yes yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes all right I two yes nine yes Legal Services all right tax title foreclosure M chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the tax title foreclosure budget uh account 158 line 570 for charges and expenditures in the amount of $3,472 for a total of $ 33,42 black and Steve yes Trace yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes I two yes nine yes elections sure mam uh you have a someone has a question about elections okay I'll yeah um I'm just wondering with the discussion around um the uh special election that would be needed in the event the the 4 million or 6 and a half million options go forward and those end up on the ballot does that 465 include the amount that would be needed to run the special election and in addition to the annual election and the U November elections that would have to be in June so it's the current fiscal year I April was in yeah the special ballot would be June I forgot about that thank you speaking of that mic though do we have money in the budget in the elections budget for a June special ballot I'll have to check I doubt it so keep some of that Reserve fund available we got some I'm chair yes Joe I make a motion that we accept the elections budget account 162 line 510 for personel Personnel Services in the amount of $700 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $446,500 for uh I take that back yeah um take it back take it back account 162 scratch line 510 uh line 570 charges and expenditures uh in the amount of 46,500 for a total of 46,500 second question a second Steve yes CH yes Mandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes two them yes nine yes for elections all right Southeast Regional planning and economic development mam chair yes Joe make a motion that we accept the southeastern regional planning and E Economic Development budget account 176 line 560 for assessment in the amount of $471 for a total of $471 second yes yes yes Jo yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes yes okay Town report I'm not going to wait for you to say yes because I know you're going to Madam chair I make a motion uh that we accept the town report budget count 195 line 520 for printing in the amount of $2,400 for a total of $2,400 second yes sorry all right you're on top of it okay Trace yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes yes I feel like that could have been all in favor can we do that we can't do that on Zoom right I'm just saying just saying PA I assume you said yes your voice cut out oh yes I did n yes that town report's getting there 2400 okay anything else T mik that's it fun okay um Mike you had a few others on here are we just not going to go through those T was like postage sealer weights Street lighting sanitary landfill oh I did I'm sure everyone else is mad at me now I'm sorry but how about how about if I say I can't find those have to do it another night yeah we can we let's see oh I agree with you let's get it done rally people it's only 9:30 we're all young I didn't see it on the being the lateness of the hour and on late just got back from we women's lost they got fream by bapson 16 to5 a Peter you couldn't come on with better news um I I just love reporting what goes on in town whether it's good or bad I get them next time yep yes C I don't know if I'm missing it but I don't see it in the um I don't either do that came out in the packet we didn't get it in the materials no we did we did what what's the file name oh it's um supplemental material uh oh the ones government to there a okay yeah what is the date on that 17th yeah today at 3:20 okay let me find it Emil yep I got it thank you TR my problem Madam shair I I do recall in past years if there were no uh discussions or or discrepancies we voted a page oh really we did in the past I don't remember that I would love that looks like it's your bedtime this is past my bedtime now you still so can we do that bill uh Mike yes but we would have to so Joe would have to recommend he would have to call out each account and the amounts and then we can vote on yeah woohoo I can do that oh Bill we're keeping you around to be able to speed things along I like it Trace what was the name of that file again I can't it was so it it got emailed to us I have it I have it now fixed General government expenses with budgets for 16 24 was actually the next page from the one he just did yeah wasn't there okay all right postage oh now they're not on all on one p oh what they are okay let me find them go up all right up there it is 10 list a page above that Mike no cuz I think it started at postage yeah postage was the next one interesting okay yeah Madam chair just a quick question on the uh the postage charges I think if I'm recalling correctly that number is high because it's an uh a national election and the postage for mail and biets yes yeah I do remember L Lucia mentioning that any other um questions comments about any of these accounts on this page uh Madam chair yes I make a motion that we accept the postage for all departments budget account 199 line 570 in the amount of $7,550 for a total of $47,552 244 sealer weights line 570 charges and expenditure in the amount of $2600 $2,600 in the for a total of $2,600 the uh account 425 Street lighting line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $55,000 for a total of $55,000 and account 438 sanitary landfill line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $15,400 for a total of $15,000 400 uh second for grand total of $396,000 for this page and that is not right that's not adding up I have 10 it includes it includes all the previous oh okay so I can give you that just give me strike that from the record do do we have to give a total though we second toal ,550 how's that okay motion a second yes Trace yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Bonnie yes yes and I too am a yes nine yes for those four accounts all right now I believe we are really done for the evening and two and a half hours plus six minutes you're gonna ruin my uh calculations on now the budget's off great job before someone changes their mind someone make a motion um real quick I just want to let you all know I kind of dropped the ball because my work life has been a little crazy um there were minutes that an um emailed to me and I have not forwarded them to you so obviously we can't go over them tonight but I will send them for the next meeting stay tuned for minutes okay and chair would entertain a motion to adjourn then if anybody else has any other comments concerns questions Madam chair sorry you know I want to go but it says at the bottom of the agenda that there are two meetings next week and I think that's that was news to me so so we talked about we talked about possibly needing to do a Monday and a Wednesday next week I can't remember which meeting we talked about that because having to CRA cram all these budgets in that we now have to go through um which might correct me if I I'm wrong now we have to go through three budgets y yes so um we'd have to meet two days next week um and we have our public hearing on the 29th so I believe in order for us to get through as much as we can prior to our public hearing on the 29th um we when the public where where's it going to be our public hearing is on Zoom here on the 29th I'll be there all right Madam chair I've got a another engagement Wednesday night so I'll be late getting on yeah so I I was going to tell Joe this I also cannot attend on the 24th next week I know Bonnie also cannot make it on the 24th I only we make sure for we don't normally meet on Wednesday we get the track meet on Wednesday so I'll be there I wish I could be to work so I I want to make sure that everyone or at least a quorum of us could put it into our schedules so speak up if you canot make next Wednesday the 24th um maybe there's an EDC meeting but yeah okay I'm closer to 8 o' probably by the time I finish my other engagement and get home and online we're it's close and we have a couple people not here tonight so right plus plus W be on the EDC meeting on Wednesday next Wednesday chair yes Cody is it possible that another day works better just because we're talking about some pretty serious budgets that are getting recommended and I I personally would like to have as many voices um on the call right I know for me I'm going to be stretching it even to make a Monday meeting I have a big work event coming up on the 27th I just going to be straight out um I'm trying to squeeze in even a Monday meeting so I know I could make any other night next week would a longer meeting Monday night solve it we plan on staying on till 10:30 or something or 11 that's what we're going to have to do if we can't have a quorum on the 24 M got be prepared for Monday loses as as we take a break in between yeah we're going to do like stretch like they do in the Red Sox games you beat everyone in a stretch we're let's hear stret stretch stretch so am I hearing that we're not going to put a meeting on the calendar for the 24th we're going to have a meeting on the 22nd 29th Pro possibly have to have one the Wednesday after which would be May 1 can we do that after the public hearing do what after the what can we actually discuss budgets after public hearing aren't we supposed to be done for the public hearing no I I no we're not normally done okay and I know we'll have other articles too to discuss okay should we check with the two who are not here tonight if what their availability is for Wednesday for next Wednesday and maybe we just talk about warrant articles on the Wednesday instead of budget issues I mean just like that well I think the point was for next Wednesday was to try to get through budget discussions and for the public hearing I say we have long I say we have a long Monday meeting and hopefully we don't have to meet as long on Wednesday so that's I mean to Cody's point it makes sense to load everything that's budget related on Monday and then I think that would be the plan anyway on Monday right but then if um getting some of the worn articles out of the way is necessary on Wednesday you could have a meeting assuming there's a quum to discuss those with a smaller crowd I was going to say I think we should plan on the Wednesday meeting we should check in with the with Kevin and who else is missing sorry z z Zach Zach will be back so I I suspect he'll be here but check in with them to make sure we have a quorum and we if we know we won't have one then we cancel but if we do then at least we can cover what we need to cover okay I will uh contact everyone tomorrow and if you can't make it Monday Paula just give me a heads up I am going to make a very every every effort to make it on Monday but I just know the rest of the week I'd be out okay anything volunteer related Okay g to pay the bills Paul hey you know taxes might be going up all right so um I will entertain a motion adjourn now back all right motion a second Steve yes yes Trace yes Sandy yes Jo yes Bill yes Paul yes Cody yes Hony yes to a yes all right good night everyone good night good night