I'm punctual so it's 7 o'clock I'm calling to order the May 1st 2024 meeting of the Norton finance committee and taking attendance um Kevin let's see Kevin Steve is gonna be absent Tracy yeah Sandy mentioned she may be late Joe bill at least for now right uh Paul is also going to be absent Cody here Zack the heck was here there he is he's coming back Bonnie will be absent hey Zach just take an attendance I am here all right awesome and I am here okay Mike are you with us yet let's give like a minute all right hi Mike you with us with you right we already took attendance we have just just about a quorum just about yeah we do we do have a quorum okay it's very close all right so do we want to so the document you sent us with the comparison budgets yeah should we just go Page by page with that one I I would okay 51 pages we can do it all right right so um on this page um for select board um there's a salary adjustment under the 4 million and um under the um 6.5 million uh there's no no changes so um Personnel Services change $75 um and then expenses increased on office supplies and telephone and then that's it on that on Town manager all does anyone have questions about the select board budget with the 4 million override and six million override Madam chair yes Zach just just a quick overview Mike because to be honest with you I haven't had a chance to go through this line item by line on is this assuming we are spending every dime we're getting so if you got 4 million you're spending 4 million if you got 6.2 you're spending 6.2 um can tell you that under the 6.2 definitely not are you not required to spend it under the uh under the uh override rules um under the rules no you're not required to spend it mentioned that at the Joint meeting Zach yeah I thought might mentioned that the at one of the select board meetings I was at but maybe I misunderstood and it's always there for the next year if you have to go up to the full Levy limit you can um this under 4 million it's um there's $1 15,638 it says 11,397 Surplus am I not reading that correctly you could be I may be looking at an old sheet this is the one you sent for today meeting okay and then the 6 million there would be a 93,7 23 yeah correct Surplus but so why wouldn't these monies be appropriated to the budgets though like why would there be a surplus well I know uh on the town side when we get to the 6.5 million I couldn't find any uh anywhere else to be honest with you to put some of the money so what about for police fire the schools I'm sure they were they were all under under four million um police fire uh B the public health nurse Highway um and um COA and the veterans agent they were all restored what about the schools though I'm sure the 4 million I know wasn't covering uh 4 million um yeah the school in under the 4 million 36 m943 732 but possibly that Surplus could go into that budget correct y anyone else have questions on an overview or the specific select board budgets right now Madam chair yeah Zach I don't want to get too far of the weeds are too far ahead of last but have you given a thought Mike if you and kind of to what I talked about the other night if you spend all this and then all these positions are restored and we get into April of next year you know we're probably going to have roughly a 3% you know increase to all of it are we back to the same old game of okay what are we C this year um we I mean with 3% I I figured that's where I was looking at for the future 3% every year um I think we would be okay but we've never done that we've never on the town side I mean as long as I been here we really we're always exceeding 3% so I mean if the schools came back with 8% 9% 10 whatever that number is we're back to cuts if yeah yeah so Zach from what I've seen you know going through this whole budget season Dr O'Neal and Christine and the school committee they've really had to closely look at things and become creative and I think any kind of extras or you know different things have had to be cut and if they were to get any kind of override money I think that going forward they would just continue to be as fiscally respons responsible as they possibly can to make it work um I don't know she also indicated that she wasn't willing to spend all the money she was willing to hold some back because she knew when that last meeting she knew not restoring everything yeah so because she knew next year she's come back to the taxpayers people are going to be coming out of the skin so you know I just again we're getting way way out in the weeds but um everybody should have that in the back of their mind yeah definitely all right any question no questions on the select board let's move on to town manager just before we move on on that is there a reason [Music] um on like office supplies that's just funding it back to the original request correct y uh Joe just this is not a question but um just for the sake of clarity up at the top Mike I think one of the headings actually said fiscal year 23 call yeah yeah just to avoid confusion we should we should fix that um Mike so what I'm looking at I just printed what was emailed to us and mine says FY 2025 so are you looking at something different than what was emailed to us what be yeah I have right in front of me it says 2025 Madam chair and and while he's doing that is this assuming spending free cash too or is just leaving free cash alone no both uh both the overrides no free cash so we would have a little bit of a buff yeah Madam chair yes B so to to Zach's point the million two in free cash that's part of the 1% is not part of the overrides no no it's not part of it or it's not part of it no no free cash if we went to the over I thank you and mam shair one more quick one if are these budgets that we're passing if an override passes are these etched in stone or does it go back through are these going to be appropriated at to meeting or I know we're kind of just one night blasting through these um what is the process so I understand these are eted in stone so what um the process would be at town meeting um You' appro you'd approve a budget based like you always do salaries and expense and those would be etched in stone so I I I wanted to talk through through um the finance committee's motion for town meeting and what that would look like and um you know more of the details of of the logistics of all of that I wanted to talk about that tonight um I was hoping maybe we could go through the budgets first and then have that discussion okay um but if we want to have the discussion first we we we can do that um I had many many questions Mike obviously I sent you the questions today to see if we could get some response from legal um but does everyone want to just go through the budgets first and do our recommendations um because it's going to take us a while to go through all of these budgets and vote and I think no matter what we do have to go through these budgets and do do our recommendations Madam chair yeah though and and I glanced at them earlier today but didn't put him to memory if a budget doesn't change can we skip it because we've already approved it so we I'm not sure that's a good question would we have to vote on every single one for just the ones that change yeah I I thought we're essentially like making a recommendation on 1% making a recommendation on the 4 million which would include the ones that were that haven't changed so we still have to vote on them because like even though they haven't changed but it would be like a subnote so we've got like you know the finance committee charges and expenditures is 320 on all three versions yes I think 320 for that yeah if we didn't put our recommendations if we end up adopting that for instance $4 million override budget it needs to have our recommendations in there so yeah we would even the ones that aren't changing that makes sense if we if we made an internal MO motion to just say if it hasn't changed we're good with it then that saves a whole time uh legally can we do that Mike yeah and well when we when we do the budgets all all three would have all the numbers in them but you're fine tonight doing that and and I did get and I did get an opinion from Council that I can share with you whenever you want to do that when yeah when we get to that discussion it's going to be a heavy one all right okay so um want to go back to sharing the screen and we could maybe do it like the Page by Page like we did last time okay M sure yeah Cody so can we um do we have to like make the motion and and you know move the recommendation based on the 4 million override and then the Six Million or can we make a recommendation as presented for the sheet on all three I I feel like it would probably be clear we've already done the 1% I just feel like it would probably be clearer to say the 4 million make that recommendation the six and a half million make that recommendation I think we we're probably end up renaming it at some point but yeah I think you can do that yeah okay so just so I'm clear Cody you're saying that we would we'd have a vote for the four million and a vote for The Six Million or we lump them together I just I think if we end up like on the 4 million let's say we move something the 6 and a half million likely would move that but if we if we changed anything on the 4 million uh likely it would change on the 6 and A2 and but there may be some things on the 4 million that we don't change that we may change on the six and a half if that makes sense so like when you got two and a half more million that you're looking at you can look at you know reallocating it based upon you've got some room to play with um versus the 4 million it's going to be pretty close um I've got a couple of things that I've kind of ear marked when we get to them but but this page I have nothing on this one I'd be happy to to vote on this one so could the motion be um that the finance committee recommends you know $195 for the selectboard budget for a 4 million override and $195 for the six Milad budget for select board is that how the motion can be read and that's how we can vote or you you could do what was suggested just to prove the page as presented okay Z do you have a question yes you know I've been giving this a lot of thought we're the finance committee and we make recommendations to the town that's all we do po to do anything else we are now making three recomend ation to the town confusing them even more it was supposed to be the independent voice of of the Town what would happen if we picked one of these budgets and said we're only going to recommend one we're going to take the and we're not going to vote on we say we're not going to vote on the 4 million at all what so Zach yes so that's kind of what I wanted to talk about with everyone tonight is what if that's the case you should talk about it first okay if we may we can get to it first then um so my first question to you Mike though would be based on the vote that the select board made at our last joint meeting where they voted to have three budgets presented does that mean that we are hands are tied that we have to go through and recommend all three budgets not necessar no you yeah you can you can do whatever you want um as a finance committee if you don't want to recommend um three budgets you could have no recommendation say say you wanted to go with a 1% and a 4 million override you could um have no recommendations on uh the six Milli 6 point it says six million but it's actually 6.5 um you could make no recommendations for the 6.5 million someone else would have to do that okay so because it all depends on what um from what I understand it all depends on the motion that I make um that we've decided on the night of town meeting um so in that motion we have options um we can make a motion to recommend you know one of the override budgets and the one% budget um and then the town's people will vote Yes or No and then the override budget would then have to be put on a ballot voted by the select board at a later date and then if the overhead budget does not pass then the 1% budget becomes our budget right or or we could just recommend and move on the town floor one budget we could pick one right so can you see Lauren's email am I sh am I sharing that now not seeing that I'm still seeing the budget okay let me uh so just to yeah if but from what I understand too if we recommend say we recommend one of the override budgets that passes at town meeting M select board puts it on a ballot it fails at the ballot there would have to be another special town meeting for us to recommend in the town to approve that 1% budget correct correct yeah Madam shair yes St um you would be recommending the 1% budget and that would be approv the town meeting if the $4 million or and the6 million $6.5 million um override fails the 1% budget becomes the budget so we don't have to go back to another town meeting but we could choose to not do that though James correct we could choose as a finance committee to just move one of the override budgets and not recommend or move the one% budget technically you could do that yes that's that's right and and someone can also get up on the floor and make a motion to to go against that recommendation they can yeah I mean I think well I actually I shouldn't say anything I'm sorry but yeah there is the whole way we could do it where it would be a contingent you know this budget we recommend contingent that it passes at the ballot if not then the 1% budget we could do both or all three right as uh Lauren says in her email um the main motion can include all three budgets with the finance committee indicating it's for for a particular budget so for one article there's three motions right potentially yep Adam chair yes Zach I have been approached by I'm sure you guys have as well by people that don't even understand what's going on my my neighbors here that are not involved every day in the politics well if you're got a four why do you need a six why what are we it's this is really crazy uh I mean people don't understand it you're just going to cost Confusion And to be honest with you in my personal view I don't think anything gets done because people are not glued into like we are here budgets every day people have their own lives they running around with their kids I would go I I agreed with you I would pick one budget and go with it and I would also ask I was planning I'm going to try to attend the select board meeting tomorrow night and ask them and ask them whatever you guys whatever whatever is agreed to here pick one budget take it out take everything put the 1% and whatever number you want on the ballot and the confusion and say this is what it is because there's multiple choice I still don't even to today I still don't understand how the ballot would even work I don't you know 30 people vote for 60 6.5 30 people vote for four 40 people vote for no does it pass it does it I have no idea from what I understand if all if the two override budgets get put on the ballot it would be do you want a 6.5 million doll override yes or no do you want a $4 million override yes or no and whatever gets the most yeses well I mean Madam chair yeah yeah that's not the way it works so no okay um even more confusion even when I think I understand I don't I don't understand all day today so for example if both passed and the four million had more votes than the 6.5 million it doesn't matter if both pass no matter what the total what the uh difference is whichever is the higher amount is the de is the override that so if if uh you know uh 2,000 people vote for the 6.5 million and 1,500 vote for or in 2,500 vote for the 4 million even though the 4 million got more votes it's the higher one then it makes absolutely zero sense zero sense to put two on the ballot because your vote doesn't matter at that point it makes zero sense pick a number and go with it I don't even know how that's that doesn't even sound leg don't mik but if if that's the Leal advice you got that doesn't I would figure it was res but but you know yeah that's that's right in the guidelines on the overrides yeah uh Cody I don't know which one of you were first um I really don't understand what is so confusing about this um it's very clear there are three options we make a recommendation at a 1% budget that is that is the money we have without an override so that that we have to have a recommendation on that we've already made our recommendation that's going to be what's in the in the warrant um the $4 million option we're saying if you approve a $4 million option like we would recommend here's all the we've gone through it line by line we're making a recommendation if a 4 million passes here's the recommendation that we are making it still has to pass the vote Yes or no if it passes with a yes here's your budget at 4 million 6.5 million here's the differences between the 1 % or the 4 million we have to make a recommendation on that we're going to go through it line by line sort it all out and then the people literally get to decide do you want all the cuts do you want to save some of the positions do you want to save all of the positions it's three choices it's not that complex it is not that difficult we don't need to make it more difficult than it is it's going to be a little confusing having people that have never attended a town hall or meeting show up and and but I think it's pretty clear when you have a side by side to say this budget at this department means this these many pets you add four million to the overall budget these are the positions that are saved you add 6 and a half million to the overall budget these the positions that are saved it's very simple the ballot is then two questions do you want to 6 and A2 yes or no do you want a 4 million yes or no there's no guarantee that either one is going to pass if 6 and A5 million passes then it passes as if it was the only question if four and a if 4 million passes and six and a half fails then 4 million passes it's it's literally so on the budget on the ballot though I think that the select board can pick one though to put on the ballot they don't have to why would they do that if if you're going to town meeting this is about transpar dep town meeting what would get chosen at like if more people want the 4 million override or more people want the 6.5 wouldn't the select board want to choose the one that most people supported at town meeting if it it in my mind if both of them pass at town meeting then again transparency and the will of the people it is a it is a democracy and if both options pass then the ballot should show both options one incumbent upon the elected officials to act in the interest of the people that voted for them that they are elected to serve if the people show up and say I'd like to see an option at 4 million and have a vote on it I'd like to see an option at 6 and a half million and vote on it that's how can more than one wouldn't wouldn't one get more votes than the two how can more that's what I don't understand but let's say let's say we're lucky and we get 5,000 people show up 251 people vote Yes on 6 and A5 million that's a majority that wins 6 and A5 million and let's say 2600 people vote Yes on the 4 million why are we allowing 99 people to say no we'll go with the lower number the majority voted yes on the higher number the higher number wins that's it's just the way it is there's no guarantee that that's going to happen because there may be people that say I'm good at 4 million I don't want the extra at six and a half so I'll vote no on that so you can vote Yes on 4 million and no on six and a half okay so going back to the 1% budget though there's nothing that says that we have to recommend remove that budget at all it's not in the warrant yet the warrant's not posted till Monday we just if we didn't if we didn't do a vote at town meeting on the 1% and both the let's say both of them get on the ballot four and six and a half if both of those fail then we we have to come back to town meeting and vote on the one yes Madam chair yes Joe uh just a point of order that Kevin bug is now here I don't know what time he arrived okay thank you uh bill you had a question next um yeah I'm not I'm not sure where to go with this but um so at we we've already gone through the pain of the 1% we'd need that budget in the end anyway possibly hopefully but we've already gone through that pain so I'm I guess I'm a little unclear why I have to go through the pain again of 51 pages of 4 million and 6 and a half million 4 million gets me back all all the Personnel from the town side that was cut correct yes so that bring BRS me back my overtime in police and fire and any of the positions that either were not filled and we weren't going to fill at 1% now we're going to put them in the budget and try to fill them so so then what so then at the 6 and5 million town side I'm just getting more flop more in the expenditures um yeah it would be more in uh expenditures um areas that may have uh money being turned back into free cash at the end of the year okay but on the school side the 4 million does not bring me back 29 positions how many does it bring me back I'm not sure and then at the six and a half million how many does that the joint meeting but I'd have to look for it because I I could be in the minority here I don't feel like spending three hours going line by line I'm I'm you know at the four million I need to see what isn't happening at the schools and at the 6 and a half million again do the schools get what they needed because we already know the town is all set there but where are the schools and that and that you know versus line by line that's kind of where the big decisions are um and offense to Cody uh we could be here all night trying to say oh if we take two million from here and put it there I I I don't think i' I'd even attempt that that's my personal opinion so Bill in order for us to move these budgets in the article though we have to go through them these override budgets but it would be a lot you know a lot quicker versus diving into the minutia which we've already dived into in the one percenter because we saw everything that was taken away so that's just name you yes Zach under the scenario that Mike just put forward does anybody realize that it's virtually it's not it's virtually impossible for a 4% budget to pass if 500 people vote no 2,000 people vote for a $4 million budget and one person one votes for a $6.5 million budget it resorts to the highest number so it is impossible that's the scenario Mike laid out that's on the ballot on the ballot meeting on the well that's that's where it's going to go down on the ballot we have to deal with town because that's what there has to be more yes than no votes on both of them Madam chair let me see if this can help clarify that a little bit at the ballot there will be the questions for the 4 million and the 6 and A5 million everyone that's willing to vote Yes for the 6 and A5 million will vote Yes for the 4 million also not everyone that votes for the four will vote for the six and a half so it is known that the four will get more votes in the positive than the six and a half but it only requires the majority so if the majority of the people are willing to do the six and a half that's what's going to go through they're not comp comp necessarily against each other it's just whoever gets uh whoever U whichever figure whichever higher figure U passes at the ballot is the one we go with the reason being that everyone who votes for the six and a half is also willing to get a $4 million override if the six and a half fails but not the other way around for the people that are willing to vote for the four and not the six and a half you agree with that Mike I would that does make sense yeah and but so as I said Zack you need more yes votes than no votes on both of them and it doesn't matter which one if they both pass it doesn't matter which one got the more years votes if they both pass it's 6.5 million that goes back to my scenario if 500 people vote no 2,000 people vote 4 million one person votes 6 million it's a 6 million override based on scenario you just laid out they're separate questions no no they're separate questions so all I'm saying if 500 people vote Yes and on 4 million and 200 people vote no if it go and then on the Six Million if 499 people vote Yes it's under what was vote the yes votes for the 4 million but the Six Million will still pass it'll be the six that's the same exact scenario I just laid out I confused by you're saying if one person votes for 499 or one it's the same thing it doesn't again doesn't makes feel Miss say sa you have the in front of you and there are two question question number one do you want a $4 million override and you say yes that counts as a one yes for the 4 million question number two do you want a $6 and A5 million doll override and you also say yes now they're tied then Mike comes in and says yes on the four and no on the six right now the four is winning but it's the same you know it's the same votes you know I don't know how to explain it better but I understand this but this is way too confusing some people in town only want 6 and a half million and nothing and they're got to vote do you want a six and a half million override yes do you want a four million override absolutely not because it doesn't fully fund everything so Madam chair I would ask that this committee take a vote on if we're going to recommend one budget of three before we waste our time move to the next step and I I if I could Madam chair I'd say yes at least recommend two the 1% in I agree with that yeah that's an option yes there is another option though like I mentioned to only recommend one budget and then have to do a special town meeting but it is an option if this is what we really want as a committee um Cody you still have your hand up you have a question again or did you just leave it up yeah I the point of the three is to give people the option to determine if you only give people a $6.5 million option some of them are going to say but there's a lot of fat in that and I don't I don't necessarily agree with it if you only give them a $4 million option some of them are going to say but that doesn't save all the things that I want to save and the only way I can save all the things I want to save is with a six half so the whole point here is we we don't have an option in front of us that saves everything with no fact and so my suggestion here is Mike has admitted that the six and a half has flood we can go through we can pretty much agree that the 4 million doesn't have FL it it gets gets us most of the way there but not all the way there I say we can go through the 4 million quickly because it's pretty much the same across the board as the 1% there's a couple of line items that I've identified is I don't know why they changed the way that they did we can ask a couple of questions we can maybe re reallocate depending on the discussion there and then for the six and a half million option there is nothing saying we have to do a $6.5 million option we can literally pair that down and say no flu why was that increased that's the job of finance committee to review it and say no we are not going to recommend that we're going to go against whatever that number is we're going to cut it out and then the recommendation let's say we shav $500,000 off of it now it's a $6 million override option instead of a six and a half that's the whole point here is we've already approved the 1% we don't have to talk about those things unless there's FL or changes within any one of those options where we would say for instance the um the uh what do you call it the reserve fund we already talked about Reserve fund and we set at 100,000 why is it back at 150 I would rather take that 150 and put it somewhere that's actually more meaningful and on the 6 and a half it's at 250 why the hell is it at 250 we don't need it put it somewhere more meaningful or cut it like that's that's what we need to do right it's it's pretty simple about half of the stuff has already been approved on the 4 million and then when we get to the the six and a half it's basically everything we've already talked about at the 4 million and just figuring out where we can make additional Cuts so that it's not such a big number that that was helpful Cody thank you Joe uh yes so um my personal opinion is that we should we should recommend at least two of the budgets the reason for that I say my opinion of that is the finance committee is not supposed to be a political body um I believe personally that recommending only an override budget is a political statement and I would not be in favor of that okay just further to that Joe I would say that only recommending one override option when it's been discussed in joint meetings and put out to the public that there are going to be three options is the same thing makinging it a political and saying All or Nothing people or or we're not going to give you an option for all we're not going to recommend it like that that's what we're here to do I I don't think it'll necessarily take the full three hours other than we just spent 45 minutes talking about this this is what I was going to do at the end so this now it saves 45 minutes all right let's get going then any other questions on on the confusion of all of this before we start the recommendations are we going to take a vote M bam chair if we're going to recommend two budgets or three do we have to do that right now should we well we should we'll save a lot of time going through another budget that is not going to be recommended so but we haven't gone through the budgets to vote yet we still have to go through them to then decide which of the two we want so well no I think that plan is to still present three but we need to go through them for any possible changes in the recommendations from us from what's being presented tonight from Mike right we have to go through both we did the 1% or or the one yeah the 1% we need to go through the other two yes okay I'm I'm still confused are we recommending two budgets or three it sounds like three would be the correct way to move forward to be able to give all of the voters all the information we need can we take a vote on that before we get into it that we are going to present have three motions in this article for three budgets would that be the vote Mike I just want to make sure we be voting on the correct the correct way oh um I would first say are you going to recommend three budgets and I would do it at town meeting that's something you we can you and I can discuss with Town Council later the best way to do that you know as she said it would be could be one motion but I I guess what she's looking for is final Direction so um I think Zach is wondering if we need we as a finance committee right now need to vote to that we will be presenting that at town meeting three budgets in that article I think that's what that's right yeah if if you you would have to make that decision okay and the chair would entertain a motion that we will recommend three budgets bill has hand up M chair uh Bill sorry um again I think we need to go through the 4 million and the Six Million get to the painful end and then at that point we can decide one two or three I I don't think we can do it ahead of time because we haven't gone through them so we have to go through the pain of getting through them to then be able to make that decision is it one four and six and a half is it one and four is it one and six and a half is it just one yeah I mean I'm feeling that same way bill I feel like I need to see this all first and go through it and have the discussions but Zach is feeling like we should vote on our willingness to present three budgets prior to going through them the not voting on the actual budget themselves mam chair yeah Zach the bill to bill the question is do we want to fully fund the budget or not that I mean that's the only thing we're voting V we St to go through the details of it but in basic $4 million not going to fully fund your budget 6.5 will what do you want to do and then we can get into the details if you want to go through all of it we can we can uh do it at the end but if we're going to recommend we already recommended the 1% if we're going to recommend say the Madam chair yeah Cody I think it's misleading to say fully fund your budget is not going to happen at 4 million it would be fully funded it would be fully funded with certain cuts and not others and that's that's the point here you know the the $4 million budget essentially has no cuts to police and fire but has cuts to schools and has cuts to Council on Aging has Cuts Like that's what we're trying to sort out how many cuts are being made at the 4 million basically police and fire are saved schools are not entirely saved but are mostly saved and still end up with a situation where we're looking at cuts year-over-year um if we don't get enough of an increase um because of propun half the $6.5 million option we literally have to work through all that because that is the that's the like we keep everything and there are benefits that are added to that option that we don't currently have and that's that we've got to get into what what that actually means and we have to go through that line by line and and eliminate the things that we say I don't think that's necessary I think we can probably cut that I would recommend that we we move that out that's that's the whole point here Bill Madam chair I I recommend we vote for three budgets to get this moving second okay motion is second that we are going to be recommending fre budgets at town meeting Kevin yes Tracy yes Joe Joe I didn't hear you because I'm on mute yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach you already know the answer but no okay and I am a yes so six yes one no okay Madam chair yes Joe uh just a reminder I have to drop in about five minutes but I believe you'll still have a home okay Bill can you assume the role of Vice chair for the rest of the night please I'll do my best okay I will come back if you guys are still on when we're gonna still be on for till tomorrow probably we'll be here okay can we move the sheet okay so we're gonna do s board uh Madam chair yes Joe uh I make a motion that we accept the select board budget as presented on the sheet Z okay Motion in a second for the select board budget both the 4 million override and 6.5 million override budgets Kevin yes Tracy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no okay um uh this is Town manager so um salary adjustments and then in the expenses um the largest increases are restoring under the 4 million contracted Services back to 28,000 and then um in the 6.5 million increasing that um to 40,000 anyone have questions on this town manager or the two budgets Madam chair yeah Bill uh Mike what is contracted services cover y that's that's what we use for HR Services um if we have to hire uh Consultants to help us uh with any grants or if we have to um hire Engineers to work on any project that we have uh ongoing it it would all come out out of that and and what are we anticipating next year that at 4 million is 28,000 but it's 6 million or 6 and a half you know we're we're like you know going gung-ho on something what is that something um that is something that I just put the extra in there so that um you know if we had if um I know Jared had talked about different issues that he has um we're going to see for example we're going to see a site um tomorrow where people have flooding coming off the road into their yard we've had a few of those this year and we'd have to hire an engineer to design something um so we could improve the drainage in that area that something you'd only be able to do if we pass the $6.5 million override yeah because we don't have anywhere else you know would' be able to take care of the Engineering Services for that and and that wouldn't fall under Highway well we just we keep it here so that if you know if we need more HR Services uh um grant writing all of it comes out of this to have better control of it Madam chair yeah Cody um so something that's dropped off of these comparisons is the 2023 expended the 2024 appropriated transferred and the original 25 Department request request yeah I was thinking that yeah so um first of all the Personnel Services the 2025 Department request was 31575 I don't know why this is now 3184 455 I would recommend that we um we remove that excess and go back to the original Department request of 31575 and keep it there and Madam chair I can explain that okay go ahead so um after we submitted all our budgets back in December um we had a salary survey done which you may have I think you may have got a copy of that um and in the salary survey there were five positions that are under where they should be based on the salary survey and so as we go through the budgets I'll be going over that um so what we're proposing to do is so like in this budget um the office salary um is 13,000 under where it should be in in the salary survey so what my recommendation was over four years would increase the base each year over four years to catch up um and then there's four other positions that um three of them will be three years and another one it will be four years as we go along in that case I would say since the 4 million doesn't fully on all departments that we keep it at the original request at 31575 and it only goes up to 38455 under the 6 and a half an option yeah I agree with that as well and then if I can continue on that same line of that the same thing um the charges and expenditures under Town manager under 2023 the amount expended was 14,857 in 2022 it was 19510 the carry over appropriated and transferred from the current term was 43850 that was the department request um so recommendation under 1% being the 22500 I don't think I think this is fluffed I think that there's probably no need to carry the 43850 considering the past three years we've not expended that so um I would recommend we just hold that at 225 yep that makes sense so and if I can just bring up um those years that that money isn't expended remember it goes back as free cash so keep that in mind as you go through these budgets that um just because one year we you know we didn't have to use some of the money um once it goes into other budgets it'll be gone forever and then you'll have uh 3 4% on that next year and not be able to make it so has has there ever been a year that we've approached anywhere near that 43 850 because based on the past three years we've come nowhere near it um no we haven't then I would still submit that we keep that at 22500 I don't think we need to pass an overide to to load up on free cash for stuff that we're not spending I think we we stay fiscally conservative on this and if we're passing an override it's not passing it so that we can load up our free cash at the end of the year does anyone have any other questions or comments on on the town manager budgets Madam chair yeah can I resend my my uh taking Joe's spot right now because you guys are making this super difficult but let me give this a world um I can give you the number if you if you want okay hold on a sec so Madam chair I I propose we recommend um the town manager under the $4 million scenario Personnel Services 510 $315,700 and under charges and expenditures 570 22,500 and you want the total 33825 for a total of 338 205 205 and do I can stop there or I can jump to the six what your preference I think we could do the six to okay and under the six half million override scenario Personnel Services 510 318,000 [Music] $455 and under charges and expenditures 570 was that again 22,500 500 for a total of [Music] 34955 as Co said 34,958 if we made changes I thought we'd have to vote on it line item by line item is that not the way I understand the procedure no you can just do salaries and expense okay I'm still up um I am a yes five yes one no okay I I think this is why it may make sense on the 4 million and6 a half that if we want to talk about voting individually on them there so I promise there's only a couple of these who I've done this so but if it if it comes down to it and and we want to have individual discussions between the four and the six and a half um we may have to split those votes okay yeah we can deal with it I guess Case by case that makes sense all right this one's complicated let's let's do this one all right that's just restoring it back to the requested 2000 under the 6.5 million but the 4 million it would stay the same under 4 million it would go to 2,000 and at 6 million it would still stay 2,000 oh sorry I'm I'm looking at the wrong column anyone have questions on this one or I'll entertain a motion to recommend the finance committee budgets Madam chair all right bill I propose we recommend under the $4 million overl um finance committee uh 131 part-time wages in the amount of 2000 um charges we can move the page Bill okay as written uh I I propose we recommend the finance committee 131 account under the 4 million and the Six Million as written Madame chair my my hesitation is and and this isn't a dig on on anybody but as we saw earlier you know so many versions are out there that that's kind of why I was going through here are the numbers that we're seeing tonight yeah good point um it's not that I want to waste anyone time no that's a wonderful Point okay so you made the motion Cody are you second yeah I second um Kevin yes Tracy yes uh Bill yes Cody yes Zach I a yes five yes one no Reserve fund okay next is reserve fund under 4 million um it would be $50,000 bringing the reserve fund back to what your reserve fund has been year-over-year $1 150,000 and under the 6 million it would be increasing it to 250,000 and as you figure your budgets have increased year over-ear and your reserve fund has never increased um it stands to reason as your budget gets bigger your reserve fund would get bigger CH yeah Cody um considering the the lengthy discussion we had on this um on the 1% budget and the fact that we've never in once in the past have even approached the 150,000 uh I would say that if we're doing anything on the 4 million we don't necessarily need to go up to to the 150 especially considering that all departments are fully funded at the 4 million option um so I would recommend that we uh move that 150 recommendation back to 100,000 and um only under the 6 and a half option uh do we bump it back up to 150 yeah it's comfortable with that recommendation as well anyone else have an opinion about that Trace you agree I do Madam chair yes Andy I just wanted to let you know I'm here for vote I saw yes thank you happy to have you join Madam Jil yes bill I propose we recommend um under 132 Reserve fund under the 4 million scenario 100,000 and under the $6 million or $65 million scenario 150,000 second okay Motion in a second Kevin yes Trace Z Sandy yes sorry that's okay uh Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no for that one okay um next next is accounting um under 4 million restoring um everything to what was requested by the department in salaries and uh part-time wages and also um expenses slight increases $150 in two line items um and under the 6 and A5 million no change from the 4 million anyone have questions or comments on this one for million matches the department request for 2025 so there a six million Madam J yes B I propose we recommend under Personnel Services uh 510 for accounting um under either the four the 6.5 [Music] m25552 uh under four or six and a half it will be 30,000 and charges and expenditures 57 70 under four or the 6.5 million Choice $3,420 second Kevin yes Tracy yes yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no and yes six yes one no okay um next is assessors um salaries stay the same and under the 4 million um would be increasing her expense line items back to uh the requested and that is $6,600 and then uh in the Six Million 6.5 million increasing um her expense line item again um to up to$ 4,480 you anyone have questions on this one M chair just a a quick question um I just noticed that neither one of those were at the original budget um request for the Department um is that going to lead is that going to cause any issues um no should be they've all been reviewed okay and then um it was under the assessors right that um we were using that separate account and the other article is funding from free cash that we asked eventually we pull that into the annual budget number yeah yeah okay Madam chair yeah Bill uh Mike um under you know the 1% and the four there's nothing under telephone communication yet under the six there is what's what's the difference um that would be um adding a cell phones for when they're out in the field okay thank you welome no other questions or discussion chair would entertain a motion to recommend these budgets Madam chair yeah bill I propose we recommend under assessors uh 141 um Personnel Service is 510 uh $230,400 which will be the same on four or $6.5 million override and charges and expenditures 570 which would be 44780 under the $4 million override and 45,48 under the $65 million override for total expenditures of 275 275 275,557 override and 275,557 override second a second Kevin yes Tracy yes Andy yes bill yes Cody yes Zach no yes six yes one no thank you next is uh treasur collector uh under the 4 million there's a salary adjustment due to that salary survey of $1,180 and one of the staff people um and then and uh the expenses we put them increased them um from [Music] 57,000 um excuse me from 51331 to 57,200 million uh we increased the expenses to 6,690 um by increasing um mainly office supplies um seminars and conferences and um data processing uh that was in her original request Madam chair yeah Cody um so for the same reasons that we um reduced the town manager line item before under the four million I'm G to suggest we do the same thing here under the 4 million and only keep the 295 323 for the 6.5 million option and the 4 million would be the 29442 uh yeah 29443 I think we still get 1% recommended okay any other comments oh sorry go ahead yeah and then um the depart app request or charge in expenditures originally was 6,290 I know it's pennies um but I would recommend we just keep that at 6,290 instead of building in 400 I see that ASAT what the original request on the 6 million right 400 was the telephone the cell phone okay yeah uh Mike the the only number I'm not fully understanding is how do banking services go up um her that that was uh a request from the treasurer it's been so long since I reviewed all the original ones I'm trying to think of uh what banking services uh why it went up I don't remember to be honest with it it's it's almost doubling so I'm I'm just yeah trying to figure out in my head you know the department has to run on any budget so why all of a sudden in the override are we doing double something um so if there are no more comments so Cody what were you adjusting yeah so under the 4 million it would be uh 294,000 under Personnel Services which was the same as the 1% okay and um if we want to make changes under that charg and expenditures I I I would have the same question I don't know necessarily why that would go up [Music] um maybe more I have no idea I I don't want to speculate um but if we want to keep the the 1% budget it's a difference of $6,000 but that's like a what $2700 difference um between the 1% and the 4 million so we could we could T that back out or um or leave it un Cy well it's it was all underneath so even at the 4 million that 57 285 was under the original request at 6,290 okay so I was I was fin leaving it like that and then only so it would be uh 294,000 for personnel services and 5728 um for charges and expenditures for a total of [Music] 351,000 [Music] option and then [Music] um under the 20 sorry under the 6 and a half option uh 295 323 proportional services and then reducing to the original request at 6,290 for a total of [Music] 35563 Ni second that yeah there you go well played though well played um Okay Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no n yes six yes one no next next is legal services uh under the 4 million I increased it by 20,000 uh to 990,000 and under the 6.5 I increased it to 105,000 and I know you just did a reserve fund transfer recently for legal services so um I know we never know what it's going to be at but it seems like we're up in the N over the $90,000 range every year and we typically have to supplement in the fall right yeah Wood Reserve fund yeah yeah Madam chair yeah Cody so again what dropped off on this so in 2022 the amount expended was $1,587 in 2023 it was 93,9 um so I'm actually fine with both of these yeah same anyone else have any questions or disagree with these numbers hearing nothing chair would Ain a motion to vote on the legal budgets Madam chair yeah bill I propose we recommend [Music] um uh 151 Legal Services Under the 4 million proposal 90,000 for charges and expenditures for a total of 90,000 and under the $65 million override proposal uh um charges and expenditures to be 105,000 for a total of 105,000 second motion a second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I yes 6 yes 1 no data processing um under data processing under the 4 million uh we Resto restored the salary um that we had reduced uh for the part-time wages and also um brought up the uh equipment uh repair maintenance up to uh closer where it uh was requested and under the uh six .5 million um we restored Professional Services uh we had reduced the um amount of hours from our consultant uh MX Consulting uh that restores it to the request and it adds um 36,000 for additional equipment Madam chair yeah Cody um Mike didn't we when we reduced the hours uh uh from Personnel Services didn't that increase the Professional Services because we were going to have to basically Outsource a lot of that work so if we're bringing those hours back shouldn't that go back down um no we cut both we reduce the um the amount of hours of the staff person in house and uh we also reduce the amount of hours that we were receiving from the uh Consulting from okay can I ask what the additional equipment would be and why that wouldn't go into a capital request or something like that um it would just be any extra equipment that aged out computers or something no I'm doing extra so I'm going to recommend that we remove that line item from the 6 and a half million option Madam chair for the additional equipment Cody yeah for removing like striking the 36,000 not something we' carried and it sounds like just finding a way to spend money or to allocate budget money that we don't necessarily Madame share yes James uh dine item is used to buy computers for all departments within Town Hall when a computer goes bad I can tell you my compter computer is at least three and a half to four years old and it could go any minute it would be nice to be able to buy a new computer when he goes um so you know just wanted to let everybody know that you know that's what that money is used for if it's not use it goes back to town meeting we don't have enough money in our individual budgets to buy our own computers it has to be bought out of the data processing budget Okay Kevin I was just going to say the data point in 2022 we did probably computers spend $27,000 out of this account and then it dropped to very little in 23 and 24 so I don't know if it hits in threeyear Cycles I know a lot of it things running like three to five year depreciation Cycles it might be cyclical and have dropped off I'm not sure so yeah to Kevin's point that I was going to kind I was going to ask kind of the same question of Mike is there a a um kind of a timeline and a process that every so many years you know so many computers get replaced or is it more we hope we have money in the budget because if James's computer dies we need to buy him one that would be a reserve transfer me um I know uh Charlene and Adam recently went around looking at all the computers and that that's why this came about because uh they mentioned that a lot of them were three four years old and uh starting to age out but but is there a formal process though that you know every you know the next year so many computers are replaced they try and stagger them yeah so they're are okay and did did the in or will the increase in funding for Professional Services wasn't that going down to like two days a week so what does that bring it back up to it'll bring it back up to four days a week and the salary for the part-time wages will back to four days a week and silly question are are we sure that one or the other is on that fifth day yes yes so so that you know Friday there's nothing type thing yeah okay thank you you uh Cody real quick can I just ask something I'm trying to remember um was this one of the positions that chose to go part-time almost like semi-retired so would she want or need is there a need in this department for the to uh be restored to full-time and would she want that no yeah it's not it's not full-time um um you you only can work so many hours um when you're retired and that's what she had been doing and this is just restoring it back to what she's doing this year oh okay okay yeah Cody go ahead um I was just going to say I'm satisfied with the uh explanation and thank you James for mentioning that okay so for this one there would be no changes to what we're seeing here correct all right entertain a motion yes B I suppose we recommend under uh 155 data processing Personnel Services um 44,1 15 charges and expenditures $68,700 421 or 42,4 121 for the $4 million option and for 510 personal services 44150 and 570 charges and expenditures $23,100 for a total of $467 160 under the 65 million option second okay Motion in a second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I yes six yes one no uh tax title no changes everyone agreed yeah this is the same as the department request as well 33472 anyone have questions on this one we still have to vote it don't we we do um questions the chair would understand a motion to recommend Madam chair yes B uh I propose we recommend under 158 tax title foreclosure um as proposed under either scenario $ 33,42 second motion second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach yes yes six yes one no um uh undertown clerk um under the 4 million uh this would restore the incentive pay um for certification that was uh always there and in the budget every year um and then um this adds 225 to uh dues in membership and under under 6.5 million um it increases purchase of [Music] services and also um increases uh seminars and conferences so uh back to uh what was looked for so that two people can go to conferences in the department and dues of memberships uh increase 225 Madam chair yes c um so we know the town clerk is reducing down to part-time and um that was accounted for in the budget which is why it was held at 120,000 is is there any reason we would not um build into the six and a half budget uh the original Department requested 161,162 and at the same time the original Department request was only $7,000 under the charges and expenditures um what was carried forward from the current budget year was 10,150 is there is there a need to bump that to 12,100 or can we keep that at the department request at 7,000 um I would might well my recommendation was the seminars and conferences um I think it's important we have some an assistant in there that um you know hopefully is learning more and becoming uh trained and we'll have to go to conferences uh so that's why I increase that so is the the big line item there the big increase was purchases of Serv yeah that that could be reduced so can we keep that at 29 yeah so some quick M hang on is just 5100 we' be reducing expenditures by 7,000 or it would be reduced to 7,000 so yeah it would be reduced to 7,000 or the six 6 million over no it would go yeah it would go down to [Music] yeah s anyone questions or comments on that on that change to the expenditure line item and the salary one would for the six up to the request or did we decide that that the salary would get bumped up for the 6 million to the request everybody's good with that I would that that was my suggestion is that the six and a half we we at least build into the budget and anticipation that we're refilling that that full-time position and whether we extend it next year or not that's but that would be fine to to build it in because if Lua gets start off after November and I he decides to to hang it up for real after our town meeting um so I've got the numbers and I can take this one B if everybody's good M yeah Zach a question so the numbers have even changed is the intention here to recommend a fourth budget that's not 6 and a. half million are you going to recommend 6.3 6.2 what I'm confused with the way this is going oh Madam chair if I can yeah go ahead so it was never a full six and a half anyways it was always I think it was 93,000 short um of 6 and5 million and all we're doing is cutting fat um that is not necessary and um making sure that we're not over so if it comes out to be 6,328 525 whatever that number is it like at the end of the day that's going to be the recommendation is not to build fat into a 6 and a half it's to build to the services that are needed and only the services that are needed without building fat into that number so there I can make a motion um I make a motion that we recommend town clerk 161 Personnel Services 510 the amount of $121,400 under the $4 mil override option and charges and expenditure is 570 in amount of $6,200 for a total of $127,600 $33 for the $4 million option and town Clark account 161 Personnel Services 510 and the amount of [Music] $161,600 in the amount of $7,000 for a total of [Music] $168,600 million option I hate to tell you I say this but could you just go over those on the six and a half million one more time 6 half million was 161,162 646 okay and the um charges and expenditure is 7,000 for a total of 168,169 it's it's putting it back to the original Department request at the 6 and a half option y okay someone second second all right Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes yes Cody yes Zach no yes six yes one no um under elections uh this the only change here is under the 4 million restoring the 700 um dollars uh that was requested under uh salary and wages for permanent position Madam chair for the Six Million you increased the expenditures no I didn't change it request just under no just under the four million uh put the $700 back okay man sure yeah I'm just curious what that 700 goes yeah I it was something that I I wasn't aware of uh under the state statute the town clerk gets a payment shall get a payment of $700 it's nice to the state uh to run the elections fair enough it's not it's not enough but fair enough any other questions or comments on this budgets these budgets okay mad yes uh I move to recommend under 162 election and registration um 510 personal services $700 and charges and expenditures 570 46,500 for a total of $47,700 in either the 4 million or the $65 million override option second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes yes Zach no and yes six yes one no conservation and conservation salary stay the same both scenarios um we're restoring um money to uh the request for maintenance of the conservation areas 5,200 and in Professional Services 2,000 and and then um in the six and a half million um I brought the um uh excuse me maintenance of conservation areas to 14,000 um I put the $600 back in under uniform and clothing allowance and under Professional Service increase that to 10,000 and Madam chair so for the con conservation the request was 24,750 for um the department request and the 6 million is a couple thousand more than that so I would suggest that we we would go back to the department request for that one I would agree with that anyone else bill I can take this one since I've got the numbers uh r chair I make a motion that we recommend uh Conservation Commission account 171 Personnel Services 510 in the amount of4 $8,999 and charges and expenditures $570 in the amount of [Music] $21,250 for a total of $170,200 the $4 million overall option and Conservation Commission account 171 Personnel Services 510 in the amount of $48,990 and uh charges and expenditures 570 for the amount of $ 24,750 for a total of $173,700 under the $65 million over second motion a second Kevin yes Sandy or sorry Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I a yes six yes one no um under planning board um salar stay the same the only changes are under the $6.5 million request um adding $10,000 Engineering Services and um the dues of membership bringing that up to a th Madam chair yeah bill again Mike what what is happening at the $6.5 million option that we all of a sudden need engineering um I don't know what's going to happen it's just so that they have it there um if needed during the year mam sure was it in their original budget uh we yeah we didn't even have a planner when we were uh doing the original budget true Madam chair yeah Cody um I'm just looking back at again and the the 2022 year um charge and expenditures was 1878 we did have a pner then 2023 was 16007 2024 was carried forward was a counter that budgeted at 8525 um I'm viewing this as well so I would I would recommend that we strike that and and reduce it down by 10 [Music] ,000 by 10,000 or maybe the 2024 number that 8500 of what was yeah I mean we million option yeah I mean the original Department request was 3525 that was before we had a planner so yeah [Music] and I feel like for this 6 million I'd be more comfortable with that 8525 number so you million at the department request just so carry forward the 8525 from the current yeah I don't necessarily have a problem with that it was that meet in the middle yeah was that um essentially 5,000 do do you have last year's on that did we have 5,000 built in for engineering in the current term um I think what the 5,000 was in that old budget was um for Education educational assistance okay I then I would go back and I would just say the 3525 [Music] um I I think if the engineering comes up and that's a oneof it's not necessarily needed it's built in as as fluff in this budget then that would be something we could address at fall time meeting on a free cash basis yeah because it's not if it's not meetting on an annual basis that's where we should pull from free cash for yeah that makes sense so I could I can handle this one too Bill it's essentially the 1% numbers if you wanted to read those but that's there would be no change between 4 million and 6 and a half on this on these budgets we vote anyone have any other questions comments on this one okay hearing nothing take it away Adam chair yes B I move we recommend for planning board uh 175 Personnel Services 510 5 2,65 and for charges and expenditures $570 $3,525 for a total of $16,100 30 for the well for both the 4 million and the 6 and a half million override options second okay motion a second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach I'm no yes six yes one no okay Madam chair yes sir can I ask a silly question is anybody keeping a running tally of thanks Cody yeah we have it yeah okay Southeast Regional planning um no change in either of the budgets Madam chair yes sorry yes oh um and we recommend uh count 176 southeastern regional planning and economic uh development I bet that's what that stands for um uh assessment $471 for a total of $471 and either the4 million or the $6.5 million option second okay Motion in a second Kevin yes than yes oh sorry Tracy yes uh Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I yes six yes one no zoning uh board of appeals no change Madam J yes sorry andly recommend um account 177 zoning board of appeals um office supplies in the amount of $300 for a total of $300 in either the 4 million or the $6.5 million option second all right motion second Kevin yes yes no yes Cody yes Zach uh no but I do have a question about this after the go ahead Mike how can this only be $300 every time somebody asks for a uh zoning change the all notifications come in the mail and all that other stuff um this is just for any office supplies that they would need um you know stationary things like that everything else would be covered under planning thank you all right did you vote those Zach yeah I said no okay I a yes six yes one no next is uh Municipal Building um under the $4 million um bringing the purchase of services to um $30,000 or $10,000 difference from the 1% budget and electricity to 56,000 a $21,000 difference uh trash and garbage removal um back to 14,000 $3,000 difference supplies um increase of a th000 to 3,000 um and under charges and expenditures uh 1,000 increased to 3,000 and miscellaneous expense 5,000 to 10,000 and then in the [Music] um under the 6.5 million um repair maintenance of office equipment putting in 2,000 um under repair maintenance of buildings adding 10,000 um trash and garbage removal stays the same um that is it oh I'm sorry under the mislan is expense going to 15,000 so Mike maybe that's where the differen is from the request it's about a for the 6 million override it's about a 15 $5,500 increase and those miscellaneous expenses possibly that could be where it is Madam chair yeah bill I hate to ask um of these increases for like maintenance and repair and electricity and whatever how much is being allocated to the building we voted not to have um Still Standing as I said we're not going to be doing any uh maintenance or repairs on it um if it's going to be torn down so uh we just be um in that in that building it will just be maintaining a low level of heat until it's torn down but other than that there's no uh maintenance repairs or electricity for that and and what when a as a as a taxpayer in this town when do we find out either whether there's money in the current uh New Town Hall uh budget or how much it's going to cost to tear it down um Sandy were you able to go to the meeting Monday night sorry no I wasn't at and um for some reason they had a problem so I wasn't able to get online so I know it was a large part of that meeting so I'm not sure of the final results on that but I know that they're um now looking at estimates and I don't I don't know what they have left to to do that thank you yeah Zach I'm just curious is how regardless of override and override how we go from electricity 35,000 to 58,000 natural gas and 28,000 to 35,000 are we not going to turn the lights on when it's if we don't have it override is this uh you know Cody's Ed the world the word fluff here quite a bit but I think this is probably a primor example yeah I don't have the original requests in front of me so can't go back to tell you what those were but the electric bill is the electric bill no matter what you do it's the electric bill yeah the original request was 223,00 but I mean the way I look at it I feel like for all three budgets we should be looking at that um 16 $4,000 amount for all three budgets that's the way I look at it Cody yeah I I mean I was going to say the same thing um whether you have an override or not I don't see how operating the buildings is going to cost any more or less that's there's not a lot of variability in there unless you're just going to leave the lights on if you give an override and it's going to increase increase the electricity because of it so either it was drastically under budgeted out the 1% and we were going to be scrambling to figure out because we were short uh year over-year or um there fla in this so I I would I would prefer to go back to the the original Department request which I've got the line items in front of me from the original that adds up to the 223 500 but I don't know that we m have to go line by line um do we need to allocate line by line if we're changing these Mike no you can do uh the 223 and is there I mean is there a difference between the I think we've cut more than 185 out of it right now if we were to take 2235 for the 4 million or the the $6.5 million option um I just don't want to get caught there I so Cody you're proposing that we recommend the original Department request of 22,500 for both override budgets I I just iing we go with the 1% option for all three I don't know which was correct I mean but these are these are things that were we going to have less trash were we going to use the lights less where we going to have the thermostat set at a lower number during the winter like how exactly were we we at 164 and if we were find there at 164 do we really need the 2235 right yeah um who was that Kevin Kevin I mean just looking back again electricity actuals this account with 212 22,000 fiscal year 22 and 23 request in 24 was 30 I don't see how we're going to spend 56,000 in electricity let we put an amusement park in there oh that'd be fun I I know the new the new building is a lot bigger than the old building but the old building is also a lot less efficient so yeah but in the new building everything is electric um heat also um where in the current building heat was not electric what's the propane natural gas that propane natural gas is this is it's for all buildings you know so you've got the fire apartment and uh the existing town hall for a time but not the senior center yeah that's separate budg item right right um I'm cl to stick with the 164 I don't know about everybody else same in no case am I going to say that we should go over the original request of 2235 but 164 across the board I me the only thing there because we were doing 1% we were cutting the margins you know very close so in the fall we may need more money in these accounts Madam chair yeah Bill I'm I'm having difficulty definitely at the 229 um I'm having some difficulty at the original budget of 223 um the 205 might might be a might be a happy landing spot um if if everything has gone electric which is the new thing um latest and greatest in in how you heat these you know heat and cool these places and yeah electricity will go up even though it's supposed to be more efficient it's just more things drawing the electricity I guess my only caveat to that is we have credits from solar Farms so where do they go we do we are hoping to uh put those on the new buildings so then maybe the 164 is enough if we're able to get them on there it could be yep uh the only thing you know we don't know uh we're out to bid now for um trash and out to bid for cleaning so we still don't know what that's going to come in at is that a do we currently do that daily now or is that yeah do we need to yes or like trash do do you need to do trash every day or can it be every other or you know Corporate America doesn't depending on the company doesn't necessarily dump your trash every day yeah so yeah true yeah Cody I I I'll just go back to to Kevin's Point um expenditure in 2022 15654 expended in 2023 176 366 um the budget for the current year was 187 375 electricity is going up I know the rate the town negotiated rate went up um so I'm I'm actually going to go back on what I originally said about the 164 and I I agree with Bill I think 205 if we're if 205 is good at 4 million then 205 is good at 6 and A2 and we can reassess um at the uh at next year like at the year end when we're looking at you know fiscal year 2026 on where this actually came in once once we've got an idea you know what the new building is actually using for energy that sounds like a good plan chair yeah Zach uh this is where I'm having difficulty is we're loing on these budgets and we're just on the six particularly on the $6 million line we're just putting in percentages to get to that $6.5 million doll number and if I were a taxpayer just watching this meeting today where the word flop has been thrown around a dozen times or more I would say why are we even talking about a $6 million budget when we're we're saying we're just filling in numbers here it looks like just to get to that number just my observation and that's why I'm putting no on these budgets I don't think we're filling it in to get to 6.5 million well when you look at these right here electric bill electric bills are going up regardless of what happens the gas bill is not going up I mean this is just one example and Co pointed out multiple others Madam chair yeah Cody I I would say Z you're you're right and you're wrong um we're not adding anything into the six and a half we're actually we cut a lot of the six and a half already um and I'm like my point here is we can put the $6.5 million override on the table but we don't have to spend $6.5 million if we haven't allocated it it raises the tax levy the capability of raising that tax but we don't have to spend it so all I'm saying like as we're going through this allocate to the actual need we don't NE like you can you can increase the levy $6.5 million without everybody's taxes going up the equivalent of $6.5 million being collected because if we settle on this and it ends up being $6 million then that's a savings to the taxpayers and that's the whole point of what we're doing here yeah I I I hear what you're saying Cody but for me I'm 51 years old and I get to see a municipal government state government federal government not spend every penny you give them show me some examples I mean I haven't seen it you know I me it's just how it is well hold on though when we're all done with this hold on Mike this would be a question for you when we're all done with this when all is said and done we've gone through and you read up the $6 million column and it comes to less would then our two override options be 4 million and maybe 5.7 million if it adds up to that at the end of the day so um yeah you could no I don't think we should be asking for what we're not going to need right you you can do two things one you can do that you reduce the amount um to if you um if the voters voted for a um $6.5 million override just to use that as a number and you go through everything and you say well we know we have the capability to go up six and a half million this year but we're not going to because we don't need it we're only going to spend five million so that's all that would be on the taxpayers this year now next year if you said well we need more money we're g to have to go up to 5,500,000 this year you could do that and you you go up to the 6.5 at any time in the future but you don't have to go up the 6.5 in the first year we'd have to decide that prior to writing the motion for town meeting what that amount is going to be correct well so you could decide that amount or you can approve a budget of X and you could I'm not saying to do this but you could say to the select board look we only need $5 million for the budget but we'd like you to do a $6 million override you could do that not saying that's what you would do but that's always an option if you're looking for an override so you have the capability in future years the question gonna say yeahor Mike were you done no that's fine go ahead yeah just a couple things I know in the original fiveyear projections Mike did not you know take it up to the the full amount each year so that you had some buffer in the in in the future year so that's definitely an option um I think we also have to remember that um these numbers are not adding up to that because we're also not going to use the 1.2 from the free cash so um so we sure we we don't lose to right so we neither one of these can if we're not going to use 1.2 million in even free cash both of these numbers be short that 1.2 you I mean 4 million minus the 1.2 million and the 6 and a half minus the milon Madam chair and just just to tag on that quick because I know Zach's got hand rais but um the 65 million option also reduces the ambulance receipts by 150,000 so right now we're using a million even under the 4 million option we're still using a million from ambulance receipts under the 6 and a half million we cut that by 150,000 it goes back to the 850 that we used last year so like all of that comes into to play and so we're not we're not like increasing the spending by that we're actually decreasing the amount that we're using from the non-recurring funds ambulance L is sort of recuring but not consistent exact yeah a couple questions number one if if you if you fully fund your budget and you're not using free cash year on in year on out what happens to the free cash it just continues to pile up um eventually you need to appropriate it at some point no no you uh the free cash you know you always have the option every year you get can put some in stabilization you can put some in capital or you can just keep it rolling over okay secondly as of this moment right now the select board has voted for a $4 million even override correct and what's the second one 6.5 even correct I don't think they voted on either they were vot yeah perhaps three to be presented Oh I thought they voted to put thats to bring up to put that on the ballot and put it into town meeting on those amounts so we going to ask them to modify these numbers I'm saying at the end of this when all this is added up so not I'm sure if I if I can so two separate issues town meeting is going to be budget discussion with the three three option we're we're just the nomenclature here is going to be off 1% is 1% 4 million may not actually be 4 million 6 and A5 million may not be 6 and A5 million those are just the names that we've given to them because that's what Under The Joint meeting so there's three budgets we'll discuss the three budgets and vote on the three budgets at town meeting the select board after town meeting is done will then have to hold uh a meeting to set the special election to vote on it and that's where the the the ballot question on B 6 and A2 but it won't be 6 and A2 call it four but it won't be four yes or no on six and a half yes or no on four and then depending on if one or both pass then it reverts back to what's agreed at town meeting so it's two separate things so they they haven't they haven't voted on anything yet they haven't because they have to hold a meeting to set what the actual ballot is going to say and then whatever they vote on like they wouldn't vote on that now because we haven't had a discussion about the budget um our town meeting so if they put it on a ballot now literally it's voting on do you want to raise your taxes yes or no we'll figure out the number later versus town meeting here here are the numbers side by side which is what everybody talked about in the in the joint meeting and then you would you can see what you're voting on and then you go to the polls and vote Yes on four yes on 6 and A2 or you're no on four no on 6 and a half whatever that that meeting has to be set by the select board and the ballot has to be set after the discussion on the on the budget at time but tomorrow's night meeting which I plan on attending anyway they could they could vote to remove one of these off the town meeting warrant do that okay but Mike our motions could still remain what we want them to be correct corre bill so see I thought I I understood this a couple hours ago a little less so so what we are doing here is coming up with what we think are fiscally responsible budgets under these scenarios but at the end of the day if the six and a half we've whittled down flowing out a number I know you know I've haven't been adding or subtracting here we come up with a number that's 5.7 the select board is still presenting a 6.5 to the voter correct or are we first going through here um I'm assuming Cody said earlier he's kind of doing the running tally we're going to have that number the total number at the end we're going to vote yay or nay for that number are we then recommending that the board of Selectmen only do an override of X and not necessarily four and not necessarily six and a half or do the four and the six and a half no matter what we do those are the numbers I I can this one so the select board can do whatever they want we're we're putting the numbers together we're we're making our recommendation the S board could say here's a 4 million option they could say yeah whatever here's a five million they could say six they could say here's six and a half or if the number comes out at six they can say here's six they can do whatever they want and we can't we can't influence them or tell them what they what they can or can't do only they can set the ballot all we're doing here is going through the budgets to make sure that the numbers line up the recommendations are there and that we've gone through each one of these uh Department budgets to make sure that we agree and recommend the numbers before us to those amounts the select board can take up 4 million and recommend 4 million and just round it off and again if we're not spending the 4 million we like the budget is going to be set based off of the recommendation and the and the vote at town meeting so the vote at Town meetings going to determine what budget is set and what budget is agreed to at the $4 million option and the $6.5 million option it's up to the select board to determine are they going with exactly the recommended budget number or are they rounding up to four and rounding up to 6 and a half because those are the numbers that are nice to round we don't necessarily have to spend them it's just like all it's doing is incrementally increasing and resetting the the bar of what your Levy what you can tax to you don't have to spend it I I get Zach's Point un Municipal governments have a tendency to spend every penny that they're allowed to spend what I'm trying to do here tonight is make sure that we're not spending anything we don't have to spend and going through these line item budgets and saying block cut necessary key like that's all that's all I'm trying to do what everybody else is doing I don't know and what and doing this this is going to be our motion to the town meeting this is what we will be recommending these are the numbers that we're going to be recommending for each budget in the town meeting and the town the town can do what they want with that and then select board can do what they want with that afterwards for the ballot and and so i' I've joked with people who who who have known that I've been on this committee probably for too long um and I've said you know this group is very hnery this year um and and you know I meant that as a compliment really and but for this to be successful you know to be disciplined we can't then take the put off the gas in coming years we have to be just as order in the future Cycles yep hence going over Financial policies and procedures after this town meeting when we can have a fun meeting in June or July to do that uh Zach your hand yeah Madam chair to the those point and kind of codies as well we have you know a set of members here tonight that despite having discussed it over and over and over again still don't fully understand the process we still not Clarity on exactly the election process and look at the amount of questions and the amount of debate that's going on just in this committee for this to be successful a stand the chance and I want it to be successful again I'm rehashing this again I know I'm in the my you need to have a clear message a crystal clear message that you can communicate to the residents and what if anybody watching this meeting tonight or any other night the head spinning I mean the head spinning they're not involved in this dayto dat and I'm involved in that dayto dat and I'm still not clear so I just think without Clarity with all these numbers now we're changing the numbers I want to repeat myself but I'll say it one last time and I'll I'll end it there and that's the reason why I'm voting no on all these budgets is in my view this is dead and arrival you know just my opinion it's too confusing I talk to my neighbors they don't understand it somebody stopped me at the com F the other day I tried to explain to them at the gas pump for 20 minutes they didn't understand it I just don't see I mean I just yeah I could be wrong and everybody could be a lot smarter than me and I'm just the village idiot but uh I just see this as you know God bless Jack Conway at the town meeting God bless him it will be a circus with you know hurting cats at you know I I've attended about every town meeting and I don't even think I'm going I just think it's gonna be oh come on totally totally a clown show to be honest with you so Zach I I'd rather sit from a positive angle here I feel like what we're doing is we've gone through a budget that is underfunding our departments this 1% budget it is not giving so many of our departments in our town what it needs and I agree with you 100% we're now giving the town a choice and saying hey here's a middle ground of like a $4 million override this is what it can provide we're going through it line by line we're being very diligent and fiscally responsible going through it here's a $6.5 million override and this is what it it can provide um in order to avoid some of these detrimental C Cuts we could possibly see and we're giving people the choice I'm seeing this as a positive I'm not seeing it as a circus um we can choose to make it a circus or we can choose to take this seriously and explain to people that these are their choices take it or leave it I think that we should try to keep it positive I definitely understand where you're coming from and where um I think you know I understand your point that you want to vote no um but I'd like to keep it positive Madam Municipal Building yes bill I was gonna I I was gonna recommend um if we're done with a discussion I'll second that yes okay and the Celtics are winning currently so anyways um great news there's a positive so um I make motion that we recommend uh account 192 municipal building for in the amount of [Music] 25,000 charges and expenditures 570 for either the 4 million or the 6 mon5 million option second a motion a second Kevin think we've lost Kevin Tracy yes Sandy yes uh Bill yes Cody yes Zach uh no I am a yes five yes one no and we're just about at a forum is anyone to leave us tonight I was just muted I vote Yes oh Kevin Yay good I was getting very nervous what was your vote Yes okay six yes for municipal building all right Town report um under six million I increased it $600 never know when the printer is going to ask for more it's the same year over year uh I say we keep this one at the 2400 else disagrees yeah Cody I was gonna say the same thing 20 2022 it was 2191 2023 it's 2377 we CED the 2400 budget year-over-year from last year this year I think we're good Madam chair yeah Bill Mike is there a minimum um we need to print for the town report and and how much do we recycle um unfortunately I I think what the minimum is is in order for them to print them they they have a requirement of a minimum and um we we dust off boxes quite often and uh beg people to take it's it's a something the state ought to look at you know we're telling you you don't have to print it anymore you can put it online but there are a lot of people that want the hard copy so it's a requirement Madam chair yeah B I make a motion that we recommend the count 195 Town report um printing in the amount of $2,400 for a total of $2,400 for both four and 6.5 million override options second second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am yes six yes one no um under postage um I don't have in front of me what the original request was um but I know um recently the US Postal Service said they were going to go up eight cents um on a stamp so uh increased it under the 4 million from 45,000 to 49,000 and under the 6.5 million 50,000 Department request was 47,50 yeah Z do you want to do any a fincom transfer and buy $10,000 worth of uh forever stamps yeah yeah discussion questions on this uh Cody yeah um just noting prior years 2022 it was 25,38 2023 was 4,939 current budget was 52550 the original request was 47550 and we funded to the original request um I feel like this is one we could probably just keep the 47550 even with it potentially going up 8 cents I mean that's still still got 5% um built into that so I think that should be sufficient and again if we need to address it next year can for the 4 million and the 6 million keep at the 47,000 that's what I would yeah anyone else Madam chair yeah Bill make a motion we recommend uh account 199 postage uh charges and expenditures 570 in the amount of $47,500 for both the 4 million and the $6.5 million override options second second all right motion a second Kevin yes Tracy yes Andy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach I no I yes six yes one no all right next is police so under the 4 million um we restore uh Personnel Services to what was requested and um we increase um the expense line item by by adding in the $2500 for uh telephone Communications and 2,000 for office supplies um 2,000 uh on police academy and 1,000 dues in membership and 2,000 additional equipment um under the 6.5 million um repair maintenance of vehicles um we had a th000 and under educational assistance I raised at 21,000 uh as and another 2,000 uh for educa uh police academy and um that's it the main thing with the educational assistance I I know that the Chiefs uh very conservative in his budgeting and uh had one of the lowest increases in his budget coming to us this year but unfortunately um what he doesn't know is who's going to end up um taking courses and as you know we have um a request for a reserve fund transfer of I think it's 22,000 I don't have it in front of me but significant so that's up that to the 40 uh 6,000 to avoid that in the future okay any questions bill I see your hand up um Mike yeah what what is the rationale on Personnel Services for injury and vacancy um so injury and vacancy is um if someone is goes out uh injured and they have to fill that but but why is it why why does a bigger over why does a bigger override cause injury and vacancy um I went I went through answer that yeah I and before Brian I went through all the previous years and could see where we're at yeah good evening again um yeah so you never know who's going to get hurt $20,000 has been a a staple in the account forever um it's just a a line item you know just a just to have some money in there this year we've had a person out um he was out the his whole from July 1 through March when he was forced to retire we have a deficit in that account now um if somebody else gets injured that's going to become more of a deficit um and you know historically we do spend more than $220,000 if somebody's injured thank you Chief Madam chair yeah Cody I've got the um the budget worksheet from uh the original discussion on 1% um injury and vacancy 2022 was 241 clearly a very good year for chief CL um 2023 [Music] 3,984 um current budget 20,000 original um original budget request was 20,000 um I don't know where I where I necessarily land on this one um I think the issue the issue will be become is as long as you understand that you know it's not something that really can be controlled my concern is you know what happens if we need the money and you know that's always my concern especially now when the the uh the issues around the reserve fund and and things like that so I mean if you want to keep it at $20,000 that's that's your prerogative um I mean I think if you even go back further years it's it's a roller coaster that's that's what it is it's just best way I can explain it I I would follow that up by saying I I think um 20,000 the 4 million since we've been carrying that and then using Reserve fund as as necessary um the the 6 and a half million I would be I'd be fine with the 32,000 um but again we I think even at the 6 and a half million we we built in a little more into the reserve fund um so we wouldn't necessarily need to do that [Music] um I guess the the other question I have was really on the charges and expenditures and and how many of those are really necessary and I know we took the uh the $4 million option was slightly under the original Department request at 295 230 it was 2,000 less uh for some reason and then um um the $65 million option was 3,000 more sorry I'm looking at the wrong one um the $4 million was was um the original Department request it was the 65 million was was higher so I personally I'm fine accepting this one as is it's I think police and fire they they've done a good job of studing pretty cons on their budgets uh in the past and I'm personally okay with it I I would actually depending on how much we we gone in savings at the 6 and a half million when we're making cuts um if we stay under that 6 and a half that's where we can have discussions next year if we've increased the levy by 6 and a. half million and people come back and say we want an S we want an s in every in every um school or we want um a traffic control officer on the road at all times like that's that's where having that built into the six and a half where we haven't spent it and we have the ability without coming back and saying hey guys can we get another override that's where making sure we stay conservative here gives us the opportunity later down the road to say hey we didn't spend all of it where where would you like to add um so I [Music] I'm I I would actually be okay with you know as presented yeah Chief Clark question for you for the 4 million override um would we be able to restore the sro's with that budget that you see here yes everything would remain the same that's level Services okay yeah just to be clear the six and a half doesn't add any positions this is just a supplemental um benefit there's no new positions and I just uh just one more Point too um I brought this up to somebody of the day that asked um we haven't added Personnel since 2018 you know we've we've hired people doing backfill but we haven't our staffing hasn't increased since 2018 what's the um sorry Paul go ahead what's I mean what's the what's the net difference there between the population um that that we're serving and and the officer count since since 2018 um I I don't have that readily available one of the reasons that we we added a I think we added two people in 2018 maybe three and it was really to it was to full overtime that was the reason we did it but we haven't um I mean the population really hasn't increased that much in the last few years in the last six years it hasn't increased that much but we've you know we've dealt with you know burnout and if we didn't have the Staffing we have our overtime would be double what it is easily uh Zack uh Chief Clark you I know me and you have sat down before and and gone through your budget and I appreciate that by the way um but at what point here let's say there is a $6 million override pass is you know you you now you know the overtime at what point do you bring in another another another uh officer or two to try to uh what does that break even point yeah so I mean I think you know I think we could use an additional officer um you know I don't know where the the override is going to go or not but I definitely think it would be beneficial and it's it's it's going to decrease the overtime I can tell you that um if you look through the years of what we've had and again the overtime a roller coaster when we're all healthy and everything um you know we'll we'll use the full amount very close to it this year um as you see um in probably a couple years ago we didn't use as much so um you know well we if we hired an additional person it would probably be a you know the higher would be about an $80,000 increase in salaries and I think we' offset that by about the same in overtime I I know I'm asking a lot but if you went right now from three Cruisers On The Road to four Cruisers On the Road how many how many more officers would that require um well it's it's not that simple um I mean you'd need a little bit of both both the offices and overtime to to increase that I think I I don't have it in front of me I can get it for you I did look into it um recently and I I think I gave Mike a a spreadsheet on it um I think it's roughly in order to maintain four officers on the road we need need $150,000 additional so whether it's a police officer it's $150,000 of overtime um you know a police officer at 80 and overtime at 70 like that would be about what it would be to maintain four officers on the road we're not that far away from it to be honest with you but we just can't we can't get beyond the you know we can't get over the hump we take one step forward two steps back I guess my question is if you had four officers on the road and one was on vacation or one called in sick and you just said no we not we'll just go back to three for tonight or for this week we're going to go to three does that make a lot of sense to you or I mean I mean what's your feeling on that well I'd like to see I'd truly like to see two of our three shifts maintained at four offices on the road at all times I'm not 100% I don't think that midnights needs four offices on the road at all times but the calls for service on the day shift in the 12 shift could definitely use it thank you thank you would it make sense for us to add 150,000 to the 6 million override option for that anyone how much have we cut has anybody got a tally going yeah hang on [Music] um got two spreadsheets open so hold on thank you for your spreadsheets Cody um uh under the 4 million option we have shaved 79,3 168 and under the 62 we've shaved $ 14,23 don't quite have it do you want to do 100,000 I just I'm sure Brian will be happy with that or at this point we could continue on and see what we're left with and then come back to this point come back and reconsider it I would I would prefer to do that yeah we're just not vote on it right now come back to it I I think I we can vote on it and then reconsider it if we get to the end and figure out how much we have okay what does everyone think anybody else okay ad chair yes Sandy I think if we're gonna if we're going to add to it in some way shape or form why don't we just hold off on voting yeah then we don't have to rec yeah six time and and you know further to that point I don't know that we get there except under the six and a half million option right um so that's what I was thinking too yeah okay I'm believeing it and coming back but I mean this is a pretty to me what I'm hearing from our chief of police is that for the past six years he has not added an officer he is feeling that he would you know his feeling is that he would be more comfortable having four officers on the road for two of the three shifts and a $6 million override would allow him to do that if we could add that 150,000 okay we'll come back to this one Madam chair just one if we could just say one more thing um obviously it's not going to happen overnight and if this override did pass July 1 it would still take us a while to hire somebody and to do that so it's uh it's not really a rush to do anything at all okay thank you madam chair yeah Chief clk's point there um it could be something that depending on what um Chief Simmons has to say on the uh the fire we're looking at if he wants another person under the six and a half option or like could use another person um maybe it's a split and yeah we look at it and then again if we're if we're under and like depending on the growth and and stuff in in future years that's you know again the option to to take it up um later on it's not something you have to we have to fund now or like build into the budget now it just like if we have it and it's there you can you can put it in and say point to here six and a half you get another police officer you get another firefighter like whatever that may be um right but not necessarily have to carry it for year yeah that makes sense Madam chair yes so if if I'm understanding what I'm hearing at this hour um I think we can move this budget if the money is there then that can be allocated later because as Chief Clark said it's not going to you know he doesn't flip the switch and boom he needs some money right away so I I think we can move it as presented um but what saying is that if there's money depending on what we are um what adds up in the end of the fluff I guess we'll just keep using that word at the end and see what maybe we could reallocate that fluff to of where our Town's needs are the most would might be easier just presented that if a $6 million override were to be voted that that will also enable expansion of say police and fire without necessarily pinpointing it and directly putting it into this budget couldn't we come back in in the fall and maybe deal with that okay so me W my brain around this if we don't though say that we'd want it to go to the police budget and we're left I'm just going to make it up we're left with $200,000 in the end and the $6.5 million override passes and we haven't said we'd like that to go to the police um that could essentially go anywhere and who would make that decision you know what I mean unless we're stating right now this is where we'd want it to go and that's what the town's going to vote on M M chair am I explaining that correctly Sandy I I just want to point out too that that you know we keep talking about we don't have to spend all the money but I think we don't have to raise all the money to begin with right and that's a bigger AER point that what we decide um you know at the town meeting and and between the town meeting and the election is going to dictate how much our taxes what our what our taxes increased by um and so you know if we don't increase the taxes we're not going to have that money later to give to the fire department right right or Police Department right we could choose to not reallocate this fluff I'm going keep using that word Madam chair yes coach I would Al throw out that you know I know we've held our public forum but that might be um like we can if we're if we're presenting this and and we recommend it as is that could easily be a subject for future discussion at um like budget season next year like we don't necessarily have to add add it now we have if we've we've carved some off and say the $4 million option is 150,000 less and that's an option between an extra firefighter or an extra police police officer then that like the voters then can can make their voices heard instead of us saying well let's throw it in there and like arbitrarily making a recommendation whenever we haven't really had a chance to hear from anybody else um and that that would be perfect for like public hearing um yeah or if they was determined to be in need at some point I would I would prefer just to keep it as is um and then instead of like throwing it in and saying here let's let's add an extra position here um there's there's a difference between like getting it fully funded to the positions that are already existing and maybe underfunded and saying all right let's let's create an entirely new position um I think there's there's a big difference there Z yeah I think one thing that's that's being missed here if you fully f all these departments on a $6 million budget you're going to have a pile of free cash just because of the turn backs I mean if you fully fund I mean some of these we talked about electric go I mean so and Brian already uh mentioned Even If you hired somebody today by the time you get them to the academy get him on the street it would be a year almost anyway so I mean I mean you're gonna have several million dollars of free cash uh at the end of the year if you fully fund everything just in turn backs Madam chair yes Bill I'd like to make a motion that we recommend account 210 police Personnel Services 510 in the amount of 4,291 541 charges and expenditures 570 in the amount of $246,900 38,46 for the $4 million override option and Personnel Services 510 in the amount of 4 Mill i33 33,541 and 570 charges and expenditures $27,995 for a total of$ 4,574 466 in the 6.5 million option second motion a second Kevin yes Tracy yes Sandy yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no fire under Fire um under the 4 million uh override restored the overtime to the requested amount and um under expenses um increased uh expenses to $293,200 still a little below the $295,000 230 that was requested and under the $6 million override um increase uh expenses to $298,200 I didn't hear if you said something that oh I'm sorry discussion on the fire budget is Chief Simmons on believe he is do want add I'm sorry Paula Chief do you want to add anything to this I don't really have anything to add I'm happy to answer any questions that um anybody might have sure yes Cody just solidifying the point for anybody listening in although we we've lost a lot of people at this point um the four million option puts you back to level Services $65 million gives you a little um a little extra there on the treasures and expenditures right so um that's that's accurate you're good with that Chief that's correct yep and sorry remind me Mike we would be using 1 million of ambulance receipts still for the 4 million but 850,000 ambulance receipts for the 6.5 million was that correct correct or would be go back okay for both all right Madam chair I have to drop Okay Kevin thank Youk you've lost a Kevin but gained a Joe everyone Bill you're out of the Hot Seat anyone have questions or comments on this one sure yeah Cody I'm good with it as presented for the same reasons as police I'm also good with this one okay hearing no more discussion on this budget uh the chair would entertain a motion to recommend these prior budgets Madam chair I make a motion that we recommend this budget uh these budgets as presented on this page you want a back though who's g a second um again for reasons that I think we discussed earlier after Joe left um given that the pages have somewhat been different from the beginning of the meeting we should really mean the number or the numbers sorry Joe I forgot back back to the lines yeah toal we been doing totals as well than the total for each the four and the six all right one you take this one then so that I can at least know what Madam chair yes i' like like us to move to recommend account uh 220 uh Fire Department Personnel Services 510 um 4,967 1871 charges and expens 570 in the amount of $293,200 for a total of 5,261 101 under the4 million override option and Personnel Services 510 in the amount of four 4,967 1871 and charges and expenditures 570 in the amount of $298,200 for a total of [Music] 5,266 101 for the 6.5 million option second second uh Tracy yes Sandy yes bill yes Joe yes Cody yes Zack no I two of me yes six yes one no next is uh emergency medical and uh their original request was 233 725 I believe um so under the 4 million um restored 5,100 to medical supplies and 13,000 to training and under the 6.5 million um added 4,000 to repair maintenance of vehicles um put the telephone Communications back in and um medical no medical that's it so um under the 4 million um the salary the um excuse me expenses are 29,8 25 and under the 6,500 it's [Music] 227,000 under the 6 .5 million option so I'm good that this one has presented yeah same anyone else okay hearing nothing the chair would entertain a motion to recommend these budgets as presented Madam chair yeah Joe uh I make a motion that we recommend uh budget account 230 emergency medical uh line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of 29 $1,825 for a total of $299,825 for the $4 million override option and line 570 [Music] $227,700 million override option back okay uh Tracy yes Sandy yes Jo yes Bill yes yes Zach no I yes six yes one no and then under emergency planning um the only change is under the 6 million uh an increase of 1,00 ,700 and their other charges and expenditures what would that mainly represent right so this is for um Norton Emergency Management so uh they could use that for um any supplies that they have to buy um and then he repairs to equipment and things like that Madam chair just um poting out 2022 expenditures $ 77700 2023 $8,200 the current year budget is $9,000 the original Department request was 9720 which we fully funded under the 1% and I would recommend we keep that across all three options yeah I'm agreeing with that any yeah Zach these are all volunteers do we really want to nickel and d d for 2,000 bucks yeah Cody yes they don't spend it there's no reason in carrying it in the budget yeah respectfully Zach we are trying to go through these and you know every dollar counts Madam chair yeah Bill and it was the 9720 was the original request way before 1% came into being right so any other discussion they hearing none Shar recommend a motion recommend or to change the 6 million to the 9720 Madam chair Cody I will make a motion that we recommend uh account 240 emergency planning charges and expenditures around 570 and the amount of 97 $972 uh for a total of $972 for about the $4 million option and the $6 A5 million option second okay motion second Tracy yes Sandy yes Jo yes Bill yes and the Celtics one yes and yes uh Zach no and I am yes six yes one no um so let's move on right to the next one was this the final game for this round nice um next is inspection um in inspections we had uh under the 1% had reduced the requested uh salaries and so um we have put back back um into part-time wages two under 4 million $2,110 and under uh permanent positions [Music] $1,340 um and then uh restored um in the expenses uh another $1,000 to uh outside inspection coverage uh 550 for printing 200 for auor supplies 400 for educational supplies um brought the other supplies up to 6,000 uh up to 7,000 as requested um and dues and membership H seminars and conferences I'm sorry $300 to the 1,300 and under uh The Six Million uh override I think the only difference was $200 added um trying to remember which one that was under I think it's office supplies Madam chair yeah Cody um so just noting that the original Department request on salaries was 2 54 352 um so I'd recommend that we adjust the $6.5 million option to the requested amount and then I'm f with the others okay anyone else any discussions on that six million okay uh Madam chair sorry yeah J um I'm trying to get back into back into the mindset here um under telephone Communications why did we actually reduce it from the 1% for the $4 million override um I just went back and looked um what they had were expending um over the past few years and trying to get by on that got it okay um the only other thing I would say Madam chair is uh again I didn't quite follow what Cody was was saying so would appreciate if he would make the motion it's so Joe what I was doing was the original Department request for salaries for 2025 yeah again prior to the 1% discussion was 24, 352 and the 25692 is in excess of the [Music] original okay got it reducing it back got it okay I can I can make that motion yeah please do okay uh Madam chair I make a motion that we recommend uh Inspection Department 241 Personnel Services 510 in the amount of 21,7 and charges and expenditures 570 in the amount of $1,525 for a total of $270,200 the $4 million option and Personnel Services 510 $254,300 and charges and expenditures 570 8,725 for a total of [Music] $273,700 million option second uh Tracy yes Sandy yes I didn't hear but I assume that's me oh sorry yes sorry Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no um under sale or weights and measures everything stays the same okay chair would entertain a motion then uh we just been running these just with the amounts that are there for the the four and six and a half million yeah I mean if we haven't seen any changes to either of them okay um so Madam chair I make a motion that we recommend budget 244 sealer of Weights line find 70 charges and expenditures uh no change is that how we're doing it 2600 2600 okay 2600 uh for the uh for a total of $600 for the $4 million override uh option and $2,600 for line 570 for a total of $2,600 for the $6.5 million option yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no yes six yes one no and the communications no changes yeah okay any discussion on this if not chair would entertain a motion Madam chair yes Joe uh I make a motion that we recommend budget 290 Communications uh line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of 4 $50,000 for a total of the assessment 450 person oh sorry okay soorry personel it's late yeah no I get you $450,000 uh for a total of $450,000 in the $4 million override budget and uh line 560 assessment for in the amount of $450 ,000 for a total of [Music] $450,000 uh for the $65 million override option second okay Trac Sandy yes Jo yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no yes 6 yes one no Animal Control under the 4 million option um increasing his charges and expenditures from 11,310 to 13,680 U bringing back to what he was looking for and then under the $6.5 million uh request increasing that to 14,786 [Music] the main thing there was uh increasing repair maintenance of buildings by a thousand and uh Dog Food Supplies by $200 okay any discussion sure yeah Joe uh I just want to make sure that I'm reading that correctly for the the uh charges and expenditures total for 4 million M I think you said 13,680 is that I'm sorry okay the numbers are getting smaller yeah I was gonna say that get it all right hearing no discussion she would entertain a motion Madam chair yeah Joe I make a motion that we accept budget 292 Animal Control line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $7,350 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $1 13,580 for a total of $2,955 for the $4 million override option and line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $17,300 70 charges and expenditures in the amount of $1 14,786 155 for the $65 million override option second hey Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Z I'm a yes six yes one no um tree Len no changes Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 294 tree Warden uh in line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $2,000 for a total of $2,000 for the $4 million override option and line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $2,000 for a total of $2,000 for the $6.5 million override option second yes yes no yes Bill yes Cody yes Z no yes six yes one no um school department under the $4 million option 36 m943 731 87 and under the $6.5 million option 38 milon 693 $7 73192 discussion on the school budgets Madam chair um again do we have any detail as to what gets saved at each increment I does anything get saved at the six or no I don't think everything does from what I could understand back from our joint meeting um it's very close so they essentially they're layoffs in either option so neither neither option restores them 100% I wish I could say with 100% confidence M chair together Zach uh bill I asked for that information the last meeting we had with the school committee what a $4 million option with the school committee I'm sorry with the school superintendent with a $4 million option was meant for the school department what a $6 million option or $6.5 million I I haven't seen that yet I know that they're busy over there Madam chair yeah Cody um I was just looking at the handout that uh that they provided at a joint meeting I know there's been some fluctuation on some of the numbers as they paired some stuff down and moved it around um their their total uh level service budget um at at that time was 38,5 110,111 [Music] Million is 38 693 so it's it's an excess of of what they said what was it three weeks ago four four almost four weeks ago right and since then there have been I mean I even know just myself from talk um around town that there have been several retirements or people who have chosen to leave who are um higher seniority even since our last joint meeting so you know I'm sure that number's changed yeah and and they were they had presented an option at like a an overall $5 million increase showing 39 mil 721 uh indicating that that included all School Department unfunded requests an elimination and or reduction of most fees so the 65 million option is still uh 1.1 million sh of eliminated Fe and and all of that stuff so it it does give us back all of the the cuts that they recommended uh under the 1% um the $4 million option was the equiv equalent of uh I think a 4% um increase I think you're right yeah so it was the $4 million option got us pretty close to back but still had cuts the $65 million option when we discussed it with Dr o on the last call basically said there may still need to be cuts on things that we can't sustain long term so we don't end up upside down um but that was that's on the side of like we need to be more fiscally conservative and not funding to the the the total right now need and looking ahead and saying like let's not find a position that we're going to have to cut next year let's just not turn that live without the cut and then we can you know sustain that without coming back through coming back to the W yeah I'm sure that would be their plan chair yeah Zach so are we going to do what we did with everybody else and on the $6 million budget uh fund to their original request that's what I'd want to do well Madam chair that was one of the things that their original request I know there was a change on um so the original original before we had our joint meeting was 31 milon 555 775 but my think that number changed um because there was something about Transportation cost or something on the Jun meeting I don't have my notes on what that was um but as I understood it that was that was the amount but I think for so for the salaries the Personnel Services [Music] um I I don't know but I I think that 31555 changed because of like you said the the retirements and some of the stuff where the High earners are going out and they can replace them with lower wage earners um so I'm in personally I'm inclined to accept the 31101 and then the under the charges and expenditures um stick with their original request at 7 milon 317 unless there was a change to that too let me see if I can find the the latest [Music] PA Madam chair yeah bill um I don't know whether this ultimately may fall to you and Joe or whether it's going to require you know school committee or Dr O'Neal to stand up but we're kind of fuzzy on this one yeah I'm I'm seeing a note right now of like uh yeah that there would be still 22 cuts for the 4 million possibly but again this was back from our joint meeting and I think things have changed significantly since then Madam chair that seems high given yeah I had that note for the was 29 Cuts I know but since this joint meeting right yeah I recall hearing that too even at a 4 million yeah or or at at certain overrides there was still significant cuts um you know th this this may be the make or break budget that that really decides this question so again I don't know whether it falls to you and Joe or whether it falls to school committee or or you know some combination thereof but we can't be this fuzzy right Cody did you find I did I found it so in our meeting um from Monday they they gave us the $4 million budget it's not it's not by individual but it is by um group like account level um the $4 million budget um still resulted in cuts it was um it was one 1, 15679 short of um level services but that total was 36 m943 732 which is the amount that we have here for the 4 million option 36943 732 so that's that number matches what what uh Dr O'Neal talked to us about on Monday and then for the uh $65 million option um that put everything back and had a little bit extra for returning some of the services that had been eliminated without like eliminating fees and all that sort there's there's some additional things that they'll have to give us but that was um that budget for them um and I just Mike I'm assuming they were working off the number that you were G given them at 38 m692 732 um that's with the $6.5 million level right and that is the number 3,693 32 so those numbers what Dr O'Neal was speaking to on Monday um whenever we had those those discussions about what 4 million meant and what 6 and a half million meant so on that basis I'm good with these numbers yeah same thanks for finding that thanks for finding them and thanks for them not being different yeah any other discussion on these School budgets a big one Madam chair yeah Joe I make a motion that we accept budget 300 for the school department 9510 Personnel Services in the amount of 30, [Music] 81173 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of 6,862 550 $5 55584 for a total of 36,9 43,7 3187 for the $4 million override option and line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of 31,6 168,169 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of7 m25552 184 for a total of 38,6 193,00 $3 3192 for the $65 million override option that's wow you like did that one breath that was impressive Okay sandy yes Joe Bill yes Cody yes Zach no okay I a yes six yes one no southeastern regional no change mam chair I make a motion that we accept the south eastern regional budget number 306 uh in the amount of 1,692 1899 for the $4 million override option and $1,692 1899 for the $65 million override option second second Tracy w Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no okay I am a yes six yes one no um brist count Regional agricultural no change mam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 308 for the regional agricultural School uh in the amount of 1 million sorry in the amount of $149,950 for the $4 million override option and the amount of $149,950 in the $65 million override option second see Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Z no okay I am a yes six yes one know um under highway under out the 4 million um this increased salaries 187786 this would uh put um Public Works director back in and restore the position that was cut with the 1% uh budget and um under expenses um increasing their charges and expenditure expenditures excuse me from 133 to 152 700 um that's an increase of 19,6 and um under the $65 million uh proposal uh the charges and expenditures would increase to 169,170 um and the largest uh under charges and expenditures the largest increases um our road materials as I talked about before the projects that uh have been coming up and um also um repair maintenance of vehicles Madam chair so Mike uh sorry real quick um the original Department request for salaries under Highway $997,500 350 so are there theirs didn't I I'm not sure uh which one you have does it have the DPW director in it it's the Department request that got um presented to us back in whenever that was five years ago feels like um so in the original one there was a line item um that said DPW director under their salary and wages I don't think that was in the one that you're referring to yeah Cody so the 9974 56 was uh the DPW director out um the I think the mil 91,000 is director in right okay same for the same reasons that we talked about before where not every department is fully funded at the four 4 million I don't think um I'm comfortable recommending um the creation of that new position and funding of it under the 4 million but we can stick it under the six and a half that's what I would [Music] recommend yeah that sounds good to me Madam chair yeah Zach I don't even know how it's legal to be honest with you that we don't have the position now when the when the vo is voted for it I mean that should have been put into the 1% budget I'm not sure what Authority we have to say we're not going to fund this or we're not cut up on that when the voters have voted for this on the ballot at town meeting I mean it's just I mean just going over the head of the voters I mean it just doesn't make any sense to me I mean I thought I thought we were a democracy no yeah the voters approved of us to be exploring the option and we would still need to have money in the budget for it and I think that we'd only have money in the budget for it it seems to me with the Six Million override Madam chair yes Andy I just like to point out there are other positions in the charter Zach that we don't fill um it's it's not it's not requiring it to be filled it's just giving us a structure to um to explore that if we if we choose to Madam chair yeah Cody um the other the other thing there is the original Department request for charges and expenditures was [Music] 159,00 and the $6.5 million option has an additional 10,000 in there is that the is that the road materials that you were talking about Mike that's where you threw 10,000 in yeah if that's a you're you're talking about oneoff projects next year like an increase in projects next year I don't think necessarily that we need to fund a full 18,000 each year um so I would just carry the I'd recommend that we carry the original budget request at 159 888 and then if they're add Road materials needed that that's the type of thing that should be funding from free cash Madam chair yeah Joe Mike can you under the $65 million option can you explain what would what the other charges and expenditures would cover um that that would be um anything else that um he needs to buy traffic cones uh um you know uh tools for the garage things like that that was that was originally Joe I think one of the things that was cut for the 1% so it was in there and then it got pulled out you just can't do we want to go with the revised numbers if so I can make that motion yeah because I everyone is in agreement if anyone has any other discussion we could we can go with the revised numbers uh sorry remind me me Madam chair can you remind me again what we changed um so we would want the sure the the person yeah the 4 million option reducing to the original request that did not have the DPW and then only 97,000 correct yeah 997 456 yes and and what else there was something else wasn't it the charges and expenditures the charges and expenditures I didn't suggest we make any changes because it was below the original the 10,000 that was at yeah I'm just cutting the 10,000 so I've got the numbers if you want okay go for it um are we good PA I think so everyone else Madam chair I'd make a motion that we recommend High Department 420 uh Personnel Services 510 in the amount of 99756 24 do we have no sorry 9 yeah 99 $997,500 in the amount of $152,700 surface treatment 580 the amount of $177,000 and then Mike I think you need to scroll down because there's one more line item there yeah repairs to driveway uh and repairs to private ways 581 in the amount of $1,000 for a total of [Music] 1,681 15624 for the $4 million option and account 420 Highway Personnel Services 510 in the amount of 1, 91350 charges and expenditures $570 in the amount of $9,888 surface treatment in the amount uh sorry surface treatment 580 in the amount of $25,000 and repairs to private weighs $581 in the amount of $1,000 for a total of 1,277 238 for uh the $6 half million override option second trade Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes 6 yes one no okay s ice no change now ch I make a motion that we accept budget 423 snow and Ice Line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $80,000 for a total of $80,000 for the $4 million override option and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $80,000 for a total of $80,000 for the $65 million override option second yes yes no yes Bill yes yes Zach no yes six yes one no um Street lighting uh increased under the4 million $5,000 to 60,000 and under the6 million um $15,000 to 70 I mean $10,000 excuse me to 70,000 so for this one I'd want the 6 million one to be reduced to the original request of 60,000 agreed you ready for motion anyone has any discussion on this one if they don't we can make a motion mam chair I make a motion that we accept uh budget 425 Street lighting line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $60,000 for a total of $60,000 for the $4 million override option and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $60,000 for a total of $60,000 for the $65 million override option secondy Sandy yes yes Bill yes Cody yes back stepped away I am a yes you have six yes can we guess what Zach would have voted no yes next is sanitary landfill no change Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 438 sanitary land landfill line 57 in the amount of $15,400 for a total of $15,400 for the $4 million override option and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $15,400 for a total of $15,400 for the 65 million doll override option secondy yes Sandy yes yes bill I mean Joe sorry Bill yes Cody yes Zach you back yet okay I am a yes six yes uh Board of Health um under the $4 million option no change in uh salaries and under expenses restoring some of the expenses so we go from 6,250 to 8,500 um and in the $65 million uh request increasing uh the salaries by $3,222 um I believe that brings it back to the original request um increasing Professional Services uh know that stay the same as the the 4 million um Madam chair yes um the uh just a point of the um salary and wages permanent position I don't know if that was a typo when it got keyed in but it's $100 less from the 1% option my was 195 767 under 1% it's 195 667 okay yeah probably was yeah that's that's the only difference yeah I would change that okay um the question the department request yeah the department request originally for uh charges and expenditures was uh 10,900 um we're under that under the 6 and a half million if we're good with that i' say just keep it anyone else have discussion on this one okay hearing that I make aor what was the increase under the um the 6 and A5 million it was about I know that was the original request never mind go ahead Joe sorry good uh Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 510 Board of Health uh line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of 195,000 we said 767 right yeah uh and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $8500 for a total of $24,275 million override option and line 510 Personnel Services uh in the amount of $198,900 charges and expenditures in the amount of $9,250 for a total of $28,269 for the6 $6.5 million over right option Z okay Tracy Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no um Public Health M with the $4 million ride um returning the salaried position of a public health nurse and then under uh expenses decreasing under Professional Services um from 10,000 to 1,550 and educational supplies to $170 um so total expense charges and expenditures of $3,470 and on the uh $6.5 million override um increasing um supplies immun excuse me immunization supplies $5,000 um and then uh mileage and car allowance seminars and conferences educational assistance and dues in memberships for 10,850 you yeah Zach M you're never you never able to keep or get a keep a nurse at that rate I mean that's something like 25 bucks an hour or less it's actually less than 25 bucks an hour I mean that's no way you're going to get a nurse for that so why would we just double that $100,000 at least you stand a chance most most nurses are Mak in the 50s today I mean $50 plus an hour so the ones that know anyway so you can put it in there but you'll never get anybody I'm sure it's it's not it's not flaty hours by the way yeah I I was just wondering if this was in the salary study um that was done um I don't that's a good question I'm not sure if the nurse was but I know someone did a salary um study independently one of the towns recently that that we're a part of and the hourly rate that um we have in here was comparable to what the rates were yeah M sure just following up on that looking back it um so last year or the current budget Year we're carrying 40,300 which we couldn't fill the position at um and I believe when we had this discussion going into the early discussions for Budget um the 46800 was determined to be more in the line of market for the amounts that we were looking at so I'm good with these numbers as presented Madam chair yeah Joe Mike I just want to confirm that the reduction in Professional Services is as a result of not having to Outsource correct yep any other discussion on the public health nurse budget budgets Madam chair yeah Joe I make a motion that we accept budget 522 public health nurse line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $46,800 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $3,470 for a total of $5,280 for the $4 million override option and line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $46,800 and line 570 charges and expend in the amount of $1,850 for a total of $57,600 in the $6.5 million override option second and yes okay Phill H Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no okay um next is councel on aging and uh with the $4 million uh override we would be restoring the uh van driver uh part-time van driver and also adding a program coordinator position and um increasing uh the repair maintenance of equipment by a th000 repair maintenance of buildings uh by 8,000 and in the um $6.5 million um we would be increasing our repair mainten no that stayed the same what did we no we kept it we kept it uh the same uh $2,000 $2,000 increase so the original um request from Beth for the salaries was $243,900 new positions so the salary isn't quite as high okay um Bill your hands up um I I think this came up during the original presentation um why in a new building is repair and maintenance um the so uh I think the biggest cost there is um the health agent we consult with the health agent on the frequency that the grease trap has to be pumped out uh so that's that's the major expense so we're we're cooking more because we have more staff therefore we can do more events you yeah they they're going to have a full kitchen in the building and as part of the requirements with the kitchen you have to have a greas trap outside um it can't go into the septic system and the grease trap has to be pumped out um at least four times a year every quarter at least I think but what it wasn't going to be that much under the 1center where it it's increased ing under all the other scenarios um we just under the 1% we just didn't have uh the money so we were going to have to uh see how we could cut back on other areas there so this is just restoring it closer to the requested amount okay thank you y yeah c um Mike what have to the old Council and aging building um or the old Senior Center sorry uh when when the new one opens do we still have to carry that under this budget the maintenance and upkeep of of the old building no um what we're looking at right now is there may be a nonprofit that will take over the building so they'll be responsible for our maintenance and upkeep so no changes to this one I'm I'm good with as is anybody else have any more discussion or I will entertain a motion Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 541 Council on Aging uh line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $224,800 70 charges and expenditures in the amount of uh $66,000 for a total of $ 29,9 36 for the $4 million uh override option uh and line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $224,800 and line 570 charges and expenditures the amount of $68,400 for a total of $292,900 $6 for the $65 million override option second and yes okay Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes yes Zach he I am a yes six yes one no um next is the Veterans office and uh this the uh $4 million override would increase uh the veterans benefits back to the requested $200,000 um and uh also there would be slight increases in some of her uh expense line items so her charges and expenditures would increase $300 to $3,450 and under the $6.5 million um scenario her charges and expenditures would increase by $400 to 3,850 which is the original request yes yes discussion on this one I will entertain a motion Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 543 veterans line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of 105,000 820 line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $3,450 and line 579 veterans benefits in the amount of $200,000 for a total of $39,375 million override option and line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of $15,804 70 charges and expenditures in the amount of $3,850 and line 579 veterans benefits in the amount of $200,000 for a total of [Music] $39,600 million override option second and yes hey Tracy yes Sandy yes uh Jo yep Cody yes Zach no I a yes six yes one no only more guys only eight more so close guys doing library library um no change from uh what you're I believe that's what you recommended for the 1% budget so no change yeah uh mam chair I make a make a motion wow it's really getting tough make a motion that we accept budget 610 Library uh is that line 570 Mike yeah other charges and expenditures in the amount of 69,000 655 for a total of $ [Music] 69,6 with a $4 million override option and 69 thou line 570 sorry yes in the amount of $ 69,6 for a total $ [Music] 69,6 for the $65 million override option second yes okay and yes Sandy yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no um under um where are we Recreation um so under the $4 million override uh we would increase uh charges and expenditures to $ 22,34 and under the $6.5 million override 22,000 54 Madam chair yeah uh Cody um Mike what would it take I know uh Melissa's on part-time um what would it take to to bump that to fulltime um if we were looking at the $65 million option to get her fulltime and then um I think we have plenty um of savings in here to talk about maybe down the road not tonight but um putting aside 25,000 into an account for founders day that can be offset by donations yeah I'm not sure what it would take to make uh the position full-time I know uh the current director doesn't want to be full-time uh so or to add another part-timer yeah I think that's maybe maybe uh a discussion for another day yeah seeing the lateness of the hour um but I think this this could easily be one of the deals where we don't necessarily spend everything under the six and a half but we can say look we've got we haven't spent everything and if it's important to everybody we can we can fund it and put it back into the uh the budget have a full-time person that's dedicated to it so it's not relying upon volunteers to get founders day and if six and a half passes then we could easily find a full-time auction rep director that could lead the charge on all of that and at least have a line item budgeted that can then be offset with donations and sponsorships um so that at least we're guaranteed to have founders day every day every year chair yeah Zach I guess I'm in the minority tonight but I mean to pass a $6 million 6, not have a full-time uh pox and Rex director that's been sitting out there for years and years and years and providing zero funds for her to actually do anything uh you know other than you know just basic expenses to run some programs I mean that budget in my view should be easily doubled uh and it's still very small just to give a little some money I mean right now she wants to have an Easter egg hunt that cost a few hundred do and it's you know we're looking for donations but everything can't the donations I mean she she's out there you know they out there begging for money every day I a thousand per agree with you Zach that it is embarrassing how underfunded our Parks and Recreation budget is madam chair yeah Cody sorry sand it look like you you know I was just gonna mentioned that the request for the charges and expenditures um was a little higher 23,000 um Mike do you know what got reduced there in the Six Million override like what's not included there I don't remember Sandy M chair yeah Cody I was going to recommend that we increase that to the amount requested for both budgets yeah um not knowing what a full-time position would be there uh unless we want to just double that salary and say um 61 7 uh for the $6.5 million option and then at least it's it's built in uh assuming double the the current salary and need have two um like Co co- directors and they could run that department together and have have the [Music] money I mean we're not having Day this year but we could we could easily take it and and create the funds at all time meeting thank you uh go ahead Zach I I would also advicate if you're going to do double the salary to 60 add another 20,000 to uh uh I don't know purchases of services I guess it would be under where there's nothing uh you know so you can actually have they can actually have some programs round it up to an even I guess it would be $3,353 yeah i' i' reach purchases of services line item B mik for the recreation what would she be using for that one um so any anything um that she had to I would think that's where she would pay her pool guy out of and okay that's what my notes say yeah okay Mike what if you wanted to buy I don't know candy for Halloween or something what what line would that fall into other charges and expenditures yeah they should well there should be for something like that it would be a miscellaneous expense line item well I would say you put that somewhere we you can actually run some programs or do something instead of having to Panhandle all all the time so Zach you're just uh could you just repeat what would what you would like to see the increase for the CH I would like to see $30,000 to Personnel Services $20,000 call it to miscellaneous is there a miscellaneous line here or other supplies how other charges and expenditures inrease of 20 to the in charges in expenditures corre I'm just trying to follow you so an increase of 30,000 to the person line item and increase of 20,000 to the charges and expenditure line item for a total increase of 50,000 to this budget that sounds good to me it's a good start anyway you did mention too that the pool had a leak that she should put it the capital the capital and really there should be on this I mean not tonight but might there should be a Founders Day line item that uh that we should be funding if that would have come to um someone just put in the chat the average parking reckon mass is a salary around 80,000 um I'll be happy with a doubling of salary for now that's you know a huge leap for the town of Norton M chair for the purposes of the motion was there a suggestion that we add money to the personel services for the $4 million option so these both of these additions Zach are you suggesting under the $6.5 million option is that correct yes yes so I think the the 4 million would would stay as it okay well I've got the numbers that you want them Jo uh I think I have them so I have 6,849 for the 65 million for wages and 42,500 4 um we were going to bump the uh to the the charges and expenditures bumping that to the request which was 23679 so 6 and a half it would be 43679 just just go mam chair yes I make a motion that we recommend uh Recreation uh count 630 uh Personnel Services 510 in the amount of 3,849 and charges and expenditures 570 in the amount of 23,649 for a total of $ 54,5 28 under the $4 million override option and Personnel Services 510 in the amount of [Music] $6,890 and the amount of $ 43,6 79 for a total of [Music] $4,525 8 for the $65 million option 104,000 what 4,528 second okay uh sorry Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Bill no right changing it up Cody yes that and I'm going to change it up and vote Yes this is getting fun it yes getting crazy now people oh boy six yes one no just confus call I'll make a note that this time it was Bill okay historical commission no change um Madam chair I make a that we accept budget 691 historical commission line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $0 for a total of 0 for the $4 million override and line 570 charges and expenditures for $0 for a total of 0 for the $65 million override option right that in yes Trac Sandy yes Joe yes Bill oh you already voted sorry Cody yes Zach I guess I have to vote Yes for 0 okay I to am a yes we have seven yes for this one um Memorial inets um increasing the other charges and expenditures to $2,000 under the $6 million override Madam chair yeah Cody I'd recommend that we pull plan under both options the original request was $2,000 um this is for the parades right Mike and the flags that get put on Veterans Graves yeah 2,000 please and Madam chair agree yes SEC Mike do you know if the all the funds are fully uh uh used every year or is there turn backs on this um I don't have it do do you have um I don't prob with the 2000 you know but I'm just curious that's all don't have to figure it up it was 8:30 in 2022 647 last year we carry 2,000 in the budget currently Madam chair I make a motion okay they recommend Memorial and vet uh 692 charges and expenditures $570 in the amount of $22,000 for both the 4 million and $6.5 million override options second and yes he yes yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach yes and I am yes seven Yes again not going to vote against the veterans come on now no historic district no change mam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 693 historic district line 570 charges and expenditures for the in the amount of 0 for a total of0 for both the $4 million override option and the $6.5 million override option second in yes right TR yes Sandy yes Joe yes yes Zach yes all right I two yes seven yes um maturing debt no changes mam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 711 maturing debt uh I guess a total of 3,598 6 $62 for both the $4 million and $65 million override options second yes yes Tracy Sandy yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach I have a question is any of this covered under overrides Mike this non override money this this is non override money guess we already spent it so say yes yeah yes okay and I yes James just a quick note uh those are the funds we use to repay the bank for the bonds that we've issued through all the years so that those are payments of principle and the next one you're going to be voting on is going to be the interest it does include the uh loans that we've taken out against the Deb excluded uh projects for the senior center the high school the the athletic complex and this and the town the new town hall Thanks James so it is that that excluded some of it and James when you get a chance not tonight because it's late can you shoot us a number what percentage of that what is that excluded and what is coming out of the uh uh the uh the operating account some other time not not tonight I will do that I can tell you it's uh most of it thank you I yes if it's my turn we already all voted yes I believe wrote that down for this one right okay moving on interest no change M chair motion that we approve budget 750 interest uh in the amount of 2,442 685 for both the $4 million and $65 million override options second yes yes sorry yes Cody yes Zach yes I to Amia seven yes okay employee benefits um so under the $4 million override um increased medical insurance from uh 86037 69 to 8,883 723 or an increase of 279 954 and uh under the $6.5 million override increased it to 8,946 723 mam chair so uh Mike though um wouldn't wouldn't the employee benefits for the 6 million have to increase if we have more employees say that again wouldn't the $6.5 million override budget have to increase if we have more employees right that's why I increase the health insurance because it's anticipated I had we had reduced it to 8603 769 for the 1% and then uh by adding positions back um I've increased it back up Madam chair yeah so the original the original Department request was 8 million 907 723 so the 6.5 million is matches that number okay all right any discussion on this one no discussion Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 910 employee benefits line 510 Personnel Services in the amount of 4,156 46 $63 line 511 other Personnel Services in the amount of 8,977 23 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $633,000 for a total of $ 13,697 $697,000 uh override option and L 510 Personnel Services in the amount of 4,156 460 $ line 511 other Personnel Services in the amount of 8,977 123 line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $633,000 for a total of 13,701 186 for the6 million $65 million override option second and yes hey Tracy yes Sandy yes Joe yes Cody yes z z you Ling at the end okay I mean my keyboard froze up for some reason it's a no sorry all right six yes one no the streak is broken um Unemployment uh under the4 million and the $6 million override I reduced it back to the 75,000 discussion hearing none Madam chair I make a motion that we recommend or did we accept budget 911 unemployment compensation line 570 uh in the total in the amount of $775,000 for a total of $75,000 for both the $4 million and $6.5 million override options second and yes yes yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach I know I am a yes six yes one no last one last one yeah so under miscellaneous expense uh 940 um so under um gas fuel oil and Diesel um with the $4 million override I returned it to the 165 as 165,000 as requested um with the 6.5 million I increased it to 175,000 uh the workers comp under the 6.5 million I increased it to 260,000 um uh Medicaid reimbursement under the 4 million uh returned it to the 25,000 um number and under the 6.5 million uh our package policy um I added 40,000 and vehicle Fleet insurance 12,800 and public official liability 11,800 and police and fire Insurance deductibles I added to 000 mad chair yeah go ahead Cody um so the the 165 I get the 175 the increase though for gas and fuel is because more assessors driving more Board of Health driving um because the van's back on the road at the 4 million option right so that go that's where we 165 and then an additional 10 for the um additional positions uh potential Department of Public Works director like all of that's included in that yeah and then what exactly is why would the package policy go up um package policy that would just be um the 40 the 40,000 extra we don't know what the package policy is going to be yet we haven't got that number and uh off a payroll no no package policy is um all the property right property right I don't know why the property would go up I could see maybe the GL if you've got more more activity but I don't know go up 40,000 no it's not based on that it's just uh we' have the ability to have a cushion there um depending on what it comes in at and the workers comp is up because uh adding the employees back [Music] um CH yeah Zach the package policy and business Cody is driven off sales gross sales I don't know it works I don't know how it works in municipalities if it's grow revenues but uh um I know for you know what it is it's a square footage of the buildings um there's some there's some classes that are rated off the payroll I think like police and fire and um stuff like that it's it's like hours like nine hours um so there's there's a lot of that mixed in iair I'm going right is this include the the entire town including the school department yes all the school buildings everything yep so do we see this when I look at the school budget am I not seeing a breakdown of these because this is substantial numbers that's I mean this is all part of the fixed and Shar if that's in their budget no um you know when you we do the budgets if you look on the um revenue and expenditure sheet down the bottom you see fixed and shared expenses and then you see the schools southeastern regional burto County uh General government and then the school budget so is it is it possible for future years obviously this one's wrapping up to say okay 74,000 some kind of breakup you know even if it's a line item this much goes to the schools this much goes I know it's hard to do you're probably to do it by percentage this much goes to the fire department because it's really TI of their budget you know it's you know that's it's a massive number it's not you know we're not talking a couple thousand bucks $73 million yeah yeah just so the tax pay can understand that it's not just 38 million whatever it is for schools it's plus this plus health insurance plus all that you know that just make it clear people what we're spending yeah um sure yeah Cody um but I don't see auto liability anywhere else on this vehicle package policy also include Auto uh no we have uh vehicle Fleet Insurance oh there it is there it is okay so that's that's going to increase because you got Vans and drivers on the road okay uh I was just looking back at the original Department request um for under charges and expenditures it was that 976 865 uh I just feel like again we don't need to BU build cushion in um if we can avoid it under this and so if that 40,000 is a cushion on the package policy I would prefer to keep it at the original budget request um that was approved at at 421 so but wait Mike for the um you just said the fleet vehicle Fleet Insurance it looks like that's the same for the 1% and for the 4 million but then it increased for the 6 million but didn't you say the van driver gets reinstated at the four million uh van driver does yep so that's included on that so I think what Cody's saying is the 976 865 under the 4 million would bring it to what the request was okay yeah and then this the 6 and a half million added um drivers back on the road for assessors and uh Board of Health I think um with those being like the 4 million didn't fully plan the development request but the 6 million did or six and a half sorry B sh yes I didn't hear you I'm sorry yeah sorry I said I said your name weird sometimes I Mike I don't see employee practices in this and I don't see cyber where is that usually those are separate line items we do have cyber I think it is more in the package policy and what was the other one you mentioned employee practices um sexual harassment that type of stuff one to the other yeah it's it's probably all in the package policy and my last question on this is at 78 million or $75 million what is the break even point going to say we're not going to have any of these and we're going to be self-insured and we take 50 million a year and put it in a reserve account and keep funding it I mean how much you repaid out in the last 20 years I mean I'm not you can be self-insured this is an incredible number to pay to insurance companies incredible number when when we're asking for overrides of you know 4 million and 6 million I would say drop it all drop 50 million a year into a a stabilization account a self-insured account pay any claims and that fixes all your budget problems for years and years and years to come I don't you ever ever see a claim paying out this this kind of money I don't think I'm understanding you what amount did you just say because are you referring to that grand total at the bottom the grand total of the whole town budget I'm looking I'm looking at I thought this was the insurance budget no I'm looking at the no way too late I'm sorry no way too late I'm sorry I thought that's what you said earlier and then I was like wait a minute maybe I'm hearing things and then you said sorry I'm way over tired you right it's a million dollars I'm looking at the bottom say 73 okay this is what happens when your four and a half hour meetings no I get it I get it it's the last one let's vote on it yeah Madam chair I make a motion that we accept budget 940 miscellaneous line 540 fuel expenses in the amount of $165,000 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $976,000 override option and 95 40 fuel expenses in the amount of $175,000 and line 570 charges and expenditures in the amount of $1,824 65 for a total of 1,257 465 for the $6.5 million override option second then yes yes yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach no I am a yes six yes one no Madam chair yes Sandy can I just clarify again um that that the uh the 4 million and the and the $6 A5 million budgets or or override budgets include not using 1.2 million in free cash which is why those numbers those totals are lower right to answer the question in the chat that that I that hopefully answers the question that Chad that that's why they're not 4 million and 6 and A5 million because they are going to absorb the cost of the free cash that we currently use for our 1% budget right and in one case the ambulance reserves well no go ahead Cody um I was just going to put a point on all the work that we put in tonight um and we shaved off the difference between where we started on the $4 million override budget and where we ended was a total reduction of $7,888,000 what 888689 and the $6.5 million option was reduction of $112,000 or $2,128 that's because we added back in some nice to have like to Hales um this is like that that in uh includes the fact that we added in like for the recreation and and fly funding Department request that weren't fully funded under the 4 million option and whatever but between the two options I just want everybody to feel good about it was like we spent a lot of time and we're up way late but you know the the work was wor it Zach yeah uh can somebody send all that an email somebody's got a spreadsheet or got a spreadsheet I'll save the spreadsheet of where we started yeah we'll send it toight too I'm sure he's got to cross check his math too so you know wew look at that cu the the only thing that's not on mine is the zeros like I I didn't care to data enter the uh the zero account and where do we stand right now in regards to the fincom are we done are we done when the season's over where is it so we have voted on everything right Mike all of the Warren articles you have okay so there'd be no reason for us to meet again the warrant has to be posted on Monday if we met again after the warrant being posted our recommendations wouldn't be in the warrant or changes so if anybody wanted to reconsider anything right um so unless somebody needs to reconsider unless something happens beyond our control I feel like there's been a time once before mik a couple years ago where something came up out of our control after the warrant was posted and we had to meet right before town meeting right to vote on that don't remember what that was about so that if we need if we if I needed a meeting um I'd get I'd let you know otherwise um would usually just post a meeting for the night of town meeting just before just in case yeah and you may have a lot of time as they're checking people in uh so yeah Madam chair yeah yes Joe I'm not in any way of shape or form suggesting we do this tonight but we do have outstanding minutes yeah I so my thought yeah no no I'm not gonna say we're gonna do it right now I just thought is I want to like we talked several times already throughout this budget season is to schedule a meeting after this is all done where we can kind of meet and breathe and talk about like going forward the financial policy manual and procedures and how we want everything to go next year and at that meeting too um maybe we could go through all the minutes that we're going to be having um so we'll kind of figure out when we want that to be I just didn't want to forget them yeah no definitely not there'll be more coming I'm sure Madam chair bill um maybe it is the lateness of the hour but someone did put in the chat you know what about water and sewer did I don't recall doing Water and Sewer you did there were there was no action you voted on those articles no they're not separate budgets they're separate articles four and five yeah you already voted on articles four and five yeah I think that those are Enterprise accounts so they don't hit those I think I was thinking the supplement okay action thank you CH D should I send this uh document to everyone on fincom I think that would be helpful yeah Co um Cody if if you're still talking about the same spreadsheet I've been looking at with you um could you also have like the totals in there for each department because I know I don't have no I don't have the total um I was just doing the you have the salary and expenditure but then there the way rolls down without the sub toal L items Mike and James are have to put something before anyway for it so so when you get it might have to sent it to everybody a clean copy yeah yeah take cies for the time being so I can glance at it yeah Madam chair so I have one more question Mike considering there was the reduction in the the two budgets so it's not a huge reduction are we still sticking with when we make the motion for the three motions in this article for the three budgets um the 4 million would be the $4 million override and the 6.5 would stay the $6.5 million override is that how we're still going to do this well do we want to um reduce that 6.5 million I would it would be good if you could reduce the 6.5 um but the select board to do that yeah that that's motion so when we make the motion I want us all to be on the same page yeah when I make the motion I'm not making my motion it's the motion of the finance committee so Madam chair yeah Joe I think the one thing we have to consider is if we leave those numbers where they are then we have the option of either of over the over time if if it passes then we have that that additional pad to to build the two and a half% off of um the ability to actually pass that number Madam chair I don't think we're coming up with the override numbers like I think we're just our Appropriations are our recommendations and then the it's up to to the select board um either before and or after right to decide what they actually want to put on the ballot right I mean we're we weren't far off from from The Joint meeting that we held where the three committees and we came up with roughly 4 million roughly 6 and a half we were pretty close um I mean that was pretty good work on the flag considering and thank you huge thank you to the school department for being on the ball and getting us all those numbers so that we had you know 50% of it worked out ahead of time it was huge so what is being voted on exactly at town meeting you're going through all the budgets one at a time like we did tonight or you gonna say I'm just Clarity forget about the vote for a minute how is the town meeting going to work so I think that I think that the moderator would they would bring up on the screen each budget and budget and he would I think he's planning on doing like a page by Page here's the first page anyone have questions here's the second page anyone and he'll do that for all three so this tonight took four and a half hours without any public questions is it multip is it scheduled for night one budget 1% night two budget 4 million night three is I mean has that been work I don't know if it's been worked out or not I don't care there I don't I haven't heard any final decisions on this but there has been talk about Mike you can explain but there has been talk about doing the budgets in one night and the other articles in another we still on that page I I think um what we're we're talking what we've talked about is that um the Articles we have we're talking today the Articles you have before the budget aren't real complicated ones um chapter 90 and Tree Service um water and sore Enterprise and then the budget and so it's more and even the special that's at 7:15 most of it's no action so um we'll probably get to the budget on the first night and then we'll have to go to 11 o'clock probably the latest and then uh if we're not done with town meeting go to a second night so the the idea is to do the budget right now the idea is to do the budget on the first night are we required to do the Articles I'm sorry manager uh are you required to do the articles in order no um you Jack was looking into that but you can um someone can ask that one article be taken above another the only reason we were thinking of doing um the other articles maybe we were thinking we have this special at 7:15 but then it's going to take people might not be all checked in by then anyway so that might not be an issue so so mam chair yeaha so I'm a resident sitting in the audience and you bring up the 1% budget we're vote on it Page by Page then you go to the $4 million budget what if I don't want the $4 million budget I want a $6 million budget do I have to sit there and vote no on every single page of that $4 million budget or is there going to be a vote that says who favor a $4 million budget well the town's not voting on every page they're going to review every page I think it's like all right now we do Page by Page a town meeting well we'll do Page by page for you know to be able to kind of let the town see everything and ask questions as needed as we go through but then at the end they would be asked to vote on that one no they'll vote on the 1% yeah yeah I mean three votes total 1% 4 million yeah there'll be three votes that's it and and and and the warrant articles M sure yeah Cody so Zach the way I Envision this the 1% is going to work the way it always works like that's that's the we don't need an override budget it's going to work exactly the same the $4 million option will be will then be presented and the department heads will be able to get up and say this is what's saved this is what's different this is all of that and then open for discussion the same way as the 1% now it's open for discussion under the 4 million so people get to get up and ask you know what what is saved here the 1% will talk about everything that was cut the 4 million we'll talk about everything that was saved but still things that are cut same same discussion same ultimate vote and then the six and a half option will be presented and they'll be able to get up and say okay remember all the 4 million now we're adding these things on top of that like that's that's the way this should work and that's why having it side by side you can see like this is where the money's going and even though it's a $4 million uh override we're not spending $4 million the the whatever the total is that's recommended there there's the 4 million option and then the 6.5 million here's all here's the bang for your buck this is what you're getting at that and again we're not spending 6 and A5 million even though that's what we're calling in so you vote on 1% you vote on 4 million you vote on six and a half and so it should it sounds a lot more complicated when you're like there's three different budgets and everybody's going to be talking about it at the same time it's you're talking about approving one budget approving one budget approving one budget so what happens in the r scenario that I don't think it's ever happened that people are pissed off and they say we're not going to accept the 1% budget and we'll vote down the 1% budget what happens then we have I'm just I'm just curious what happen they could vote no they could they could vote no then what that means you have zero money allocated you don't spend anything I don't know you hear that m hold on so then the the voters have to vote say the voter the if you're a voter you want the override to happen you still should be voting in the affirmative for the 1% as well to have a contingent budget yeah yes okay can't spend any money I mean you can't pay anybody unless that budget's voted on you literally shut the downal shut Downs because it's almost midnight now I get it okay almost tomorrow two I told you we'd still be here tomorrow second thank you for all you do in this Bud of season and Trace oh sorry hi Peter go ahead yes thank you for all you do during this budget season and I know it's a tough job but you work hard with this budget and I'm going to be there at town meeting on May 13 right thank you so much Peter and let me just correct you it's budgets plural May 13th is budgets and the 15th is going to be the articles I know the drill know the drill okay I there was a motion of second to adjourn I believe I lost my list but uh Tracy tomorrow SCT board tomorrow yes there Bill yes Joe yes Cody yes Zach yes I yes seven yes good night everyone