##VIDEO ID:tqmOia59DWM## all right I'm going to call to order the October 7th meeting of the M finance committee presid in person we have Brandon Gavin Paul Zach uh Paula and myself and remotely we have trace and B so we'll get started with the articles I think pre purpose article funds first so um the article to repurpose um funds I know Mr slatter is here from the building committee and um this is article 10 or is it 11 11 article 11 um from the chart you can see um since 2016 various uh Appropriations have been made for uh the senior center or the town hall the first one um at the town meeting in May 2016 there was money appropriated for a Senior Center parking lot there's $34,900 in that account um on at the October town meeting in 2019 under article two of the special town meeting in October that year uh there was 140,000 appropriated and it was appropriated 70,000 for Town Hall Senior Center site evaluation and 70,000 for a town hall Senior Center conceptual layout and of that on the town hall portion is $897 21 remaining and on the senior center portion 70,000 remaining uh the annual town meeting in May of 2018 um there was money appropriated for Town Hall feasibility study and there's $1,733 2016 remaining in that and at the town meeting in May of 2018 article 6 um there was money appropriated for a senior center feasibility study and there $ 72717 available um so a total of $1,235 54 and the motion would be to move this money into the building projects so it could be used if necessary as part of the demo of the town hall and um before Jim comes up want me to go over the other article would the demolition um article 12 so when the um projects were approved at town meeting um the months were broken out into three and what this article would do is to um appropriate so 4,760 4,762 40 million 4,762 th000 was appropriated total for the three projects and it was split out so much for the field project so much for the senior center and so much for uh the town hall and what this article would do is say that any of the remaining funds can be used on the projects um right now the failed project there's $74,500 and for the senior center is $739,500 up the demo project okay um when the building committee started these three projects we asked the town for the 40 million um for the three projects at the time we were in the middle of Co and we realized the cost of construction was just multiplying crazily um so I think we put a lot of high numbers in and um the ending numbers that approved that so what we did during the process of building is to make the buildings the projects fit in we cut certain things out of the projected projects out of the senior center we cut out um some parking spaces we cut out the commercial kitchen we cut out the back patio um and I believe and some other smaller stuff to save money on the senior center on the town hall Town Hall was originally supposed to be brick we cut that to have cement um Cloud boards we also cut um something else I don't know but oh we were going to we were going to pave the the library parking lot but to save money we cut oh and the reason I'm here the demolition of the whole Old Town Hall um we were very perplexed about that because that's half the reason we sold the projects to the town was we said we demolished the building and the building dep department and everybody else had a million pictures showing how decret the building was um so we just moved along with the with the change of the complexion of the building committee we got a couple of uh and I was one of those people who wanted the building down but after doing some survey work with the engineers and The Architects I realized the cost was way too much for the town to endure and I was told that the building was still structurally sound but still couldn't get an occupancy permit like it had had since day one so two months ago the committee decided that uh in a vote that they wanted to demolish the whole town hall part of the present project even if none of this gets passed we'll demolish the food pantry which is the garages of police station and I believe a little section of the handicap ramp and make the Celler almost inaccessible from the outside on that floor um so they there still will be some demolition even if this proposal doesn't go through but two months ago the building Committee in a vote decided that they after discussing it we realized that and I'm going to use my own terms and if they offend you I'm sorry but um that's the way I am and if you don't like it I'll take my tie off uh to me there's different plots of gold in the town that is sitting around Mike for the first article read off six little pots of gold that range from $770,000 to $727 of projects that did not exceed uh though they were under budget so technically there's [Music] $116,000 sitting somewhere in the bank that is has already been paid for by the taxpayers so there's that amount of money and then if you take the one that's divided into the three boxes for those of you who have it um this is our estimate as of today of what's going to be left over because some of our um Mo first of all the bids came in one the bid for the town hall came in almost almost a million dollars under what we projected and what we bonded and the senior center came in under $800,000 the bid for that so there's a million 1.8 million that is bonded somewhere that didn't that supposedly won't get spent and then we had a donation of a million 1 million. 6 th uh dollars for from from uh the Nelson family and if we rename the senior center for the Nelson they made the donation we did that we used their money to decrease the cost of construction I I'm not trying to baffle you with numbers but you deal in numbers a lot more than I do and I was scratching my head today about how I was going to put this across there's another million sick six out there somewhere that decrease the cost of the projects then you look at the remaining what we have of what we bonded is $823,000 from the senior center is [Music] $739,000 and change from the wait minut I'm sorry it's $ 823 from the town hall $739 from the senior center and $74,000 from the Athletic Field project now this is all money that we project to be left over so what we were asking to do is take all these leftover funds like the list of the six projects that you had in the first page take what we have from the three projects put it all together and um the last okay let's see you for one second on your boxes the page the three sets of boxes you get an L I have no idea what the TV what is the LD summary that's almost 438,000 [Music] bug are we definitely getting those never okay obviously they're going to try but whether we get them or not oh that's that's the penalty to the contractors which we've two or three of my committee members are bothering me like that it's a penalty for not coming in on time neither project came in on time I've told people that's up to the lawyers very few construction companies pay penalties they fight it out with the people they made the contract with and there's some agreement made that's not that that's why I went over it and didn't mention it but that's technically what the penalty should be but the the common practice is it isn't paid it's written in a contract it's like I'm going to I'm going to mention something that Mr Wilson will not like but they've been waiting for an ambulance for three years and I'm sure there's a p penalty in there and that Builder will not pay anything but um that's what that summary is thank you so back to what I was talking about if you take this uh you take this long graph that looks like this one and already already there's been a few changes reading this I got a little upset because we asked sver the contractor for the no um Okana the contractor for the um for the town hall what it would cost to do the whole building if we made it a change order from the partial demolition to a full demolition which can be done to just change it to a change order um if we have the money so they told us originally $ 13 million to do the change order it going to our uh our uh I call him clerk the works but he's uh the construction manager he added these other 15 items which half of them are already included and we're getting way in the Weeds on this but it ends up that the final figure now which was 1.3 is now 2.2 and I'm AF person on a personal note I'm afraid that's going to go higher but that's not for me to decide um I'm just here to ask to combine all the leftover money and uh on the the last page on this one that has the big numbers you'll see that some of the leftover funds that we had from the three projects were part of this contingency normally contingencies are 10% but because of the and the increasing construction cost we made it 15% for the three projects and for whatever reason the architect decided to make it 20% for the demolition project because some of you may not know this but when we went to build the new town hall we found six septic systems over here that no one absolutely no one knew about until the buo bows are hit it so I don't know what surprises may be in the old police station we have asbest we have gunpowder from the firing range we have old age dampness and whatever else is in there uh we have I'm really upset at some of the projects we've done we have communication lines that run from the fire station to the the new police station so I'm assuming some of them went through the old police station and nobody's talked about that and personally I don't know why they have those intermitten lines and I don't care because everything's getting dispatched out of fox bro but again I had too much knowledge um but if you take if you take these numbers on this sheet that I asked you to look at you'll see that um what we've budgeted and the bid savings and then we have the demo prices which uses the 1.3 number not the 2 two number but again that's thrown a lot of figures at you the real reason I'm here is we want the article to take all these little pots of gold that are left over that the taxpayers have paid for to demolish the Old Town Hall and in theory and hopefully in practice although I I put my reputation on the three projects that we come on come in on the budget and it's happening I'm not going to put my reputation on the demolition but hopefully there's enough money if you take the contingency even if we go over budget we have the contingency in there and all we are asking you is is just doing a uh legal switching of money so we can legally spend the money that the taxpayers have already been taxed on for the project of completion and if you have any questions good luck anyone have questions Madam chair yes do we or do we not have a contract to tear that down we do not have a contract to tear it down so that so it's still a moving Target on the number I guess so we do have a contractor tear down the food p yeah that was part of the original okay that's part of the original so when will you have a final number or contract to well I think I think we hold them to the final final number on the 21st of October because what we did tell them to do was while they were to hold them here on site we told them to stop the paperwork that can be done within our our budget that we're going to be under anyway to start looking at how to De demolish the whole building so they're progressing as if they have a contract up to when the big ball comes if they think they can get the big ball in here before the 21st of October after being 4 months late with getting this building done I doubt it's going to happen but they they are under the understanding that they are operating now on what's contingent from the town hall original project just to do the paperwork and studies to get in there and if the town says no on this particular proposal and a few people say no although um I'll keep my motion on that um we only make recommendations well a lot of the people onor your recom recommendations a lot of people don't but a lot of people do I happen to be one who does but um that that's where we sit and they did that with the understanding that the 21st is the date the date we can tell them we're going ahead with it or stop and they'll just do the food pantry session so do you think you will have a final number at town meeting if the residents ask with the well I think the number I'm going to have because I did not want to do this whole circus because I said I've been to too many Town meetings and somebody is going to go up there and ask me more numbers than are on all these papers and I'm not going to be able to answer it I don't think the architect can or anybody else so what I'm saying the final number is is the number that I received today which would be 2 million 2, 28,35 and the 50 cents for my papers which has a substan mam chair a question for Mike mik i j mentioned the .6 million donation that was received for the Nelson Center my understanding and I'm not sure if was just uh something I overheard but that 1.6 was deducted from the bond cost that was the intention yeah the 1,551 432 uh the intent of that is to reduce the bond so that technically wouldn't be available far this project then not in my opinion you got to put it out there because you threw the number out there Jim well it may not to me it is because it decreases the amount that we have to use of the bond you may not be able to use it for this but indirectly it's being used because it decreased the cost of the bond so when this is all said and done in these numbers is fixing the sidew wall putting brick Back Up Paving the parking lot all that so it's correct completely finished yes there'll be a facade put on what's what's left of the New Town the new Old Town Hall so the fire department can use it for whatever they they want to use that part of the building for dorms and uh offices and that was the idea of the project was to put up a facade on the building cuz the only facade that's there is from the old town hall or the old gymnasium I'm sorry the windows are all from the old gym and everything else we'd have to put part of the project is putting up the side yes can I ask what happens if article 11 passes but 12 does not yeah well if 11 passed and then moved the money into the project and then it doesn't move forward and that money would just end up being declared free cash free cash even though it's a Deb exclusion is that's not de no right is that the same excuse me is that the same thing that happens if we get this because these right if it doesn't pass that money sits where it's been sitting sitting a different place since whatever dates on the first town meeting thing plus you'll get the refund from the town hall the refund the $75,000 74 or whatever whatever from those will all sit in little pots of gold forever because nobody's going to spend it but to me the taxpayers have paid for that so why not use why is it sitting there not being used just because we're smart enough to realize that there's leftover money sitting all over the place you know now we've opened up Pandora's box so I don't think the second if the first motion passes I don't see why the second uh article wouldn't pass cuz that's the purpose of the first article they sort of contingent on each other I was just wondering if if people would um be concerned about the price changing and be willing to Mo the money and then well they don't have to know the price change they'll know now but the only figure I'm going to bring up will be the 2.2 um so no more of the these monies here that are remaining in the budget for each of the project projects are going to be spent like we've spent it all this is definitely what's remaining yes mam chair that same point is James or anyone certified that these amounts are definitely still available um I know uh James certified the uh field project money as far as the town hall and Senior Center um there's he hasn't finalized that no I guess my question can we vote on this tonight if those numbers aren't solid well um Steve I'm not sure um well I'll have to check with the uh OPM because uh James would wouldn't be able to certify only you know what bills have come in and the OPM may be looking at bills that he anticipates will be coming in and deducting those so I'll talk with the OPM tomorrow all right thank you m chair yes Mike for the purposes of article 11 these this list of figures has been it's the it's the senior center Town Hall final right article 11 those from James y the only question questionable numbers might be the town hall and the sen Center there could possibly still be buil I'm not going to liot of you probably yes but there's no change orders there should not be any large bills there's no change orders or anything else the buildings both buildings are owned by the town now the only thing the contractors are doing is punch less things and as we find other problems in the building which are user problems the town maintenance people are taking care of that and not the contractor um just on that I think what the OPM Mo has done he's looked at the entire project and um anticipating no more change orders and based on the contracted amount without any more chain arst that's the amount would be left but confirm that anyone have any other questions Madam chair I'd like to make a motion that the town appropriate the authorized but unexpended balances of the following town meeting articles which project which projects are now complete and for which no further Financial liabilities remains to paid cost associated with the senior and Community Support Center in the town hall project is approved on the vote of the Town pass at the May 8th 2021 special town meeting article one and as listed in the want right you need to read the figures this is AR article 11 yes first one is um ATM from town meeting May 2016 Cena Center parking lot 34,800 the uh special town meeting of October 2019 the town hall Senior Center site evaluation 8975 point21 theod is October special town meeting of 2019 Town Hall Senior Center conceptual layout balance of 70,000 uh annual time meeting for May of 2018 Town Hall feasibility study 17331 6 and the last one is the annual town meeting for May of 2018 Senior Center feasibility study 7 $277 for a total of 2016, 23554 motion second any further discussion yeah just just one Madam chair just again these numbers are solid that's what I thought we were looking at earlier that's all my only question the well the numbers that you you just right are solid yes yeah yep okay y those are solid and that's article 10 that's 11 11 yeah cuz I'm looking at looking at what M somebody sent over the weekend it says article article 10 it says article 11 in this packet maybe change all right well those numbers were exactly what's on this list so I'll that stra was the order the numbers rewarded a little bit Steve okay thank you y any other questions or discussion to V Bron yes yes Paul yes Z yes Paul yes um yes here uh Trace yes Bill yes yes Steve yes and I am yes as well so do we want to vote on 12 then do we need the numbers for 12 Mike or is it a buy all the numbers what whatever's left over Madam chair um I'd like to make a motion if the town will vote to authorize the expenditure of the remaining balance of the collected amounts of the 4,762 th000 approved under voted vote the town passed at the May 8 2021 special town meeting article one for the town hall Town Senior and Community C support center U and as written and present I be the whole thing do PA we have to read the open no article 12 as presented as presented yeah thank you yeah I know I know you're right about figures I know the figures I know the figures I know the Fig you know you have to do that at town meeting you have to read or someone do you can say you you can say it's presented up on the screen I think as long as it's all there attorney usually sometimes it'll say a second uh Brandon yes Gavin yes Paul yes Paul sorry yes Bonnie yes TR TR still there yes yeah Bill Madam chair I had a question sorry I didn't answer questions go ahead um how does the gift to the seniors I guess it was a senior center factor into this are we supposed to be deducting that gift or is that gift then null and void that that gift is just to reduce our final borrowing so before we go that be deducted off so whatever the final number is below the obviously below the uh 40 whatever um so shouldn't it be the 40 million minus the gift is what we're voting that's yeah that's that's the way it'll end up though but that's not what we're saying here so this there's the difference this 40 million will be 1.7 right well whatever you get that number exactly then mik if you want to move it properly is it m CH yes I think that uh in order to do this correctly you have to use the $40 million number because that was the number the taxpayers voted on for bonding and we're going with what's ever left over from the bond so you have to use that number as the base number because that's what was bonded so whatever is left over from the bond of$ 4,762 and whatever is the base amount regardless of how donations we get I mean there was a $50,000 donation from Sero uh from brisol County somebody for generator all that goes into the cost of the construction but isn't taken out of the bond to pay for the generator the generator was paid for the 1 point six or whatever it is blah blah blah blah blah numbers went in to deduct from the cost so we're not going to take out that 1.6 from the bond to to have to pay that amount to the bond so the amount the taxpayers voted for at the town meeting was to bond $40 [Music] million if we and that's what we're going to have left over is that number and that's something I'm not an accountant and I don't claim to be one and that's somewhere along the line and you know we found out the numbers on the six the other six projects we found out the number on the school athletic thing the senior center in the town hall in process but there's enough money there to do the demolition the the building committee feels and that's the building committee's recommendation but as far as the gentleman's question is we're using excess money that the taxpayers have to pay in the bond to pay for the demolition because the money isn't getting used there's there's probably 4 million no I I probably shouldn't give you a figure but CU somebody will quote me on Facebook or something but if you if you realize that you got 1.6 I it's simple math it's like if you got a car payment and your mother and father came in and gave you $1,000 you don't have to pay that $1,000 if you budgeted for in your home expenses because they paid $11,000 on your C payment but you took out the $60,000 car payment and somebody else is paying one of those payments similar to the 1.6 somebody else paid that payment I don't know what the monthly payments are on the bond and again that gets too deep into it but I'm sure James the accountant will have final numbers uh I I don't know if they'll have them for the town meeting but I'm confident and the building committee is confident that there will be enough money left without any expense to the town to pay for full Demolition and I think I think we've done our homework we've found eight different accounts with money on it you have to take us at our word that we believe that it's there and you know that's the only way I I'll stop talking Mike do you have a response to which number we should use um well the town accountant agrees with me that you're authorized we're authorized to borrow 4,762 th000 which the donation is to reduce the borrowing so the amount we can borrow is 39 21, 568 so to Bill's point I should amend my initial this should be amended to the other mic or not well you're authorizing to use any of the proceeds that are left over um I don't know whether you'd say up to a maximum of 39 m210 568 Madam word it now Bill's right we can actually spend that extra 1.5 million that if it it's authorized as it's written M question so at the way this is written the way I'm reading it and I have a similar question but it says article one of the May 8th 2021 town meeting this is what was authorized to be borrowed that's true and so if that's what we're the number that we're quoting then this number is accurate if we add language that says something about the 1.6 then that's different but the way it stands now that would just be missing this is still true that we were authorized to borrow this on that date by the town right and we're authorizing on remaining funds and the remaining funds are reduced by the 1.5 million so that would need to that's the langage question the bottom line is the town approved 4,762 the donor said we're going to give you a million5 and some change to reduce the cost of those buildings however that's what they said legally you have authorization to spend 40, 76200 because that's what the town voted for on a ballot and so the question is yes we see we are saying we're not going to spend a million and half dollars but where is it in writing you know if this is just a Goodwill thing you know you know uh that we're not we haven't bonded all the money yet Mike I assume yeah so when people come up at town be and say okay well where where is it or there shouldn't be a separate article to say we want to reduce this number by 1 million you know 500 based on the gift that the Nelson family provided I don't know I think that's for the lawyers but it looks a little convoluted to me but I don't know what the legality I'm a lawyer but right is it just mess I also know that we had an article that did Sayre that we could any donations could be used to um ruce reduce the cost we not reduce the Bor I reduce the I think it was to reduce the cost um reduce to go into the project sorry I'm saying it back this that what the article said that we on so we could use donations for um for the project itself I thought we changed that at the town gting to make that I don't know if it was an excess of or to reduce I remember we kind of went back and for and then we later I think said but we don't want the million to count towards that app or at least the the permanent building committee said that so that that's kind of been that did come up some so I would think that that if the project ended up going away over a budget we wouldn't be having this conversation because we' be using that 1.6 on top of the 4,762 to finish the job correct so you know Madam chair yes I believe and correct Me Maybe Jim knows is the the friends of the senior center wanted when when you guys cut out the kitchen they wanted to raise money if I if I remember correctly to private funds to put in that kitchen and that and I think that and I don't know if that actually was a let me I don't remember I'll answer that question because it's a sore spot with me okay because you didn't mention the bricks either I don't I don't remember I don't know the whole story the friends of the senior center we cut out the patio going back and we cut out the commercial kitchen said that they would pay for it at the time the building committee said we've got a lot of excess money we'll pay for it so it is it went back to us even though we cut it originally which we had the power to do we came back and we ended up paying for the bricks that they were going to use for a fundraiser and we paid for the commercial kitchen we I mean the building committee and the to taxpayers out of the 40,7 162,50 so sorry so those those items got put back into the project but we still under budget yes by 739 okay yes we are still under budget and we want to spend the money so that we're spending $2,024 that's not a dollar amount that's a year instead of $2,044 to demolish the Old Town Hall we have the money we've proven to you by solid numbers uh six or seven items out of 10 that it can be done let us do it you know I don't think mam chair through you I don't think anybody's challenging that we want you to do it it's a matter what is the legal what is illegal and it's I think it's beyond anybody here I think it's upw toal thing is we make it a change order in the contract to change the food pantry demolition to the town hall demolition so that's so it's covered under the bond so that that's where some of the money comes from and the rest of the money is used and we're asking the taxpayers is that those seven items of whatever the amount is plus whatever is left over from the three projects like the $74,000 from use that money also to pay for the demolition so all we're doing is Shifting bank accounts we're not costing the taxpayer I hate to say this $1 okay we cost them a lot in paperwork but you know the money's there we prove the money's there where hopeful the money will be there from the Town Hall in the senior center project yeah Jim I think I think we all mean almost all voted yes I think we're just questioning the language of the article if it should say 40,000 or um 39 do we want to wait and see what Town Council well I I think what people have said here that is the right terminology in the article in the motion would take care of what the amount what the amount is okay so so I'll add into the motion not to exceed the 39,2 10, 568 of bonding of bonding bonding cap of that that in you then does that work bill so was your question originally right origin let me just throw it out there I've been the one screaming to tear down the old town hall so I don't want to interfere with that but I want to make sure we have the right number right right the the number is the number that's the number that was passed at the town meeting you can't change that number Madam chair yes may I suggest that we just vote on this if you want and and you get a legal opinion we can Recons it on thday be does that work bill so which number are we pick one bill you decide we the original was 40 million we're sticking with the 40 million and if we find WR we can come back and reconsider yeah I'm going to abstain then on this vote all right and then I think Steve and I'll be exension as well okay all right so that's eight yes and two exensions can you back get back this on Thursday a good enough time I think you good Jim get your get your Sledgehammer this is a this is a warm up for the town meeting that's what I'm saying thank you thanks I've still got a couple aces in my hole though so app I appreciate all the work that you guys doing right what do we have next Point did you take a vote yeah it's all set yes okay in the midle we stopped with the question after you closed the question period and went to voting you took a question and we got fogs down in the week okay thank you why s's in charge street so select board did vote on this article the select board MERS is here I think the G was to move it on to town meeting and let the voters decide and uh I think you've had the presentation do have John har here if you have questions and uh we do have Ryan Henley and an W from H Western Samson on too there any questions what did the select I did try to watch most of the meeting on Zoom but the audio was week so what did the select board vote on which plan tie the whole street on or just to tie the one building on so the whole street was there sorry was there a discussion about what we talked about the other day plan B like 47 yeah I was a little confused because I said it seemed like some more leaning towards the plan B but I don't know um I'm not sure why I don't think I ever heard why they went with the first plan I don't know you have any anything add why plan a versus Plan B good evening um when we voted the other night um I made a motion that we move the question to town meeting as it stood so that uh um the whole town could vote on it as it stood um I understand that it was going to go to town meeting regard regardless of what our vote was um in the meantime I did some more research and dug into it a little deeper and U I have a few questions myself um some of the uh questions that I have is [Music] that um it was never brought up to us at any of our meetings how much money the town has already invested in that property and in the demolition of uh the portion that was taken down and who owns the property and who are the 175 edu is going to be assessed to while we wait for the development of that property and who's going to pay that a couple of questions I have I don't know if anybody has any answers to that um the demo with spent uh 500 around 500,000 on demo uh the portion that was closest to cross street that we're afraid was going to fall into the street um the what was your next question um who owns the property and who are the 175 edus that are assessed to that piece of property who's going to pay that fee while we wait for it to be developed um nobody owns the property it's uh it's it was declared they just abandoned when they left so technically nobody owns it um if whoever want whoever's going to buy it has to get get it from the bankruptcy court um as far as the edus um obviously the hope is that once the uh sore project starts then the construction will start at the same time virtually but um if the sore goes in and construction hasn't started the taxpayers be responsible for paying the note with and putting a lean on the property um as we pay that note each year so so I think to to also because we had asked that question at our meeting um so it would be about 1.7 million if I remember correctly that's the um lean on the property which if it never gets the is on us so I know we all have that concern I think that's why um personally I was I was leaning towards you know supporting the plan B um just because it seems like the the reduce the reduction in cost they said between two and two and a half million it would be um less which seems to me then would cover the the grant would cover the majority of that cost and there wouldn't necessarily need to be um a big U betterment charge certainly the residents wouldn't have it at all and then 47 Elm if they had anything at all would be much lower which means if they don't develop we're not have that money I guess I look at worst case scenario and plan a we're at$ 1.7 million um Plan B work with Jason at not Cent and they got not them girl soccer so we'd be at 1.7 million if if um we met with plan a we didn't get a final number but it would sounded like it would be minimal um if it was the plan B I would I would wouldn't mind a more firm number on that but I know the bid went out as plan a so I don't know they were going to get a fir firm number on Plan B so the um my thought on the project was when I voted on it was that I I felt that we need to start seriously considering what we're doing with our infrastructure and if we have $3.5 million coming from the state to improve the infrastructure down that street granted we don't have a commitment from any developer to develop that land but if we don't have sewer on that street it's going to make it even more difficult and how long do we want to look at that piece of property as it stes so my thought was that if we could cap and I think that somebody from um the contractor said that they were willing to cap the betterment Fe at a certain number for the 12,000 per edu 12,000 per edu for the residents if if that is written into the article and if we could make it somehow more feasible for people to not have to tie into the sewer line that's put down that road until either they sell their property or they their system fails it would probably be less expensive for them to tie in than it would be to try to improve their set system if you did fit um so those were the things I was thinking about and I think that we really need to start looking down the road past the financial crisis that we're in now and start thinking about our infrastructure more deeply that's the reason I thanks for just on Roger's question um if the town was paying um the note on a uh 1.7 five whatever that is uh if we were paying the note for the 1.75 million until the developer came to reimburse us we would be about $200,000 a year in address payments to the town I G can I take questions from the board first and then and I'll take questions from go ahead what did we come up with 1.7 I thought the remaining balance was 2 2.5 milon it is and 1.75 of that is being allotted to the read B property so the other the the remaining 1.3 uh the remaining what is it yeah the is it 2 2 and5 million 1.7 so you got 800,000 who's covered 800,000 the rest of the properties along Okay so I'm not going to hash out the residents think I think that's been kicked around enough I'm a developer and I want take on that property one I got millions of dollars to spend to clean it up because I don't know it's a it's a waste so who knows now the town's coming to me and saying well you want me too if you take this on not only you're going to have to clean it up but you're going to have to come up with 1.7 million and I don't know what you're doing with the back taxes are you waving all the back taxes that that's something that have to okay so possibly back taxes it may make it feas not feasible for somebody to develop it may sit there forever because now you're looking at you know I need I don't know pick a number to clean it up three four5 million who knows now I owe 17 and and back battlements plus whatever happens with all the I'm sure it's hundreds of thousands in in property taxes it's been vacant so la are we making the situation worse by the S I don't know um so but again that's 200,000 a year that's coming out of our budget and everybody knows the budget that means it's going to have to come out of some department so you know where's it coming from who we laying off yes it's needed yes it needs to go I got all that but it's such a tight situation where you're saying all right next year when the 200,000 comes do where's it coming from I think everybody needs to consider that Z can I ask a question would you because from my perspective I don't even understand why we're not why we're even considering the plan a at this point and not considering Plan B I mean to me there doesn't seem to be any advantage this is a residential primarily residential area um I I you know appreciate that we want to get soore to our commercial and industrial areas but I don't see that we needed to get it doesn't benefit the town to get sore to residential areas and this is just a little one commercial property within a you know sea of so um for me I just again I don't understand why we're not why we're still arguing even about plan a and not moving into Plan B and reworking the the article so that it has a chance of passing I don't think I think this board voted it down I want to say two of the people that we lost are were probably yes votes um so and and even even so it hasn't changed to your point right if we voted it down before there's going to be a lot of opposition at town meeting there doesn't to me be any advantage to keep talking about plan a when there's another one that's not going to cost the town nearly as much money not going to cost the residents any money right it to me that's a win-win all around what is the math on that on on Plan B so he said between million what is it what is the let's get it simple what is it to the town at the end of the day plan B what is it to the town1 million $1 million so instead of $1.7 million it's $1 million to the time is that correct I'm not sure that we ever got that was from the engineer at the select are they on the I think they're on the call we had so we had $35 million in Grants which I thought it sounded like the $ three and5 million do in Grants would pay for the full sore project if it was a dedicated line and then the only other piece would be the water line that would be a um water store Enterprise cost um to to to which they have to decide how but I can't imagine voting against any water improvements in this town I mean to me that seems like you know that's a that's a no-brainer I'm willing to you know to to pay that the the sore piece should be under the three and a half million that we have the grant for from what all the numbers I heard I just think we need that back I don't know if um anyone online is able to answer that Ryan or Anna I can try and step in on this one right now um the estimate was for the dedicated forcement Pump Station it was 6 to 65 million um so with the $35 million Grant the 2.4 for the um the based on the water water users um the remainder of that um is what would have to be covered by uh 47 O Street so 600 600k I mean again I don't know why we're paying 1.7 potentially pay 600 take care of the issue we're trying to take care of which is to get sore to um you know to to the 47 home um hopefully make that property more appealing as much l unappealing less unappealing yeah um and again not not burdening the residents who don't seem to want and it's only a better if they if they think it makes it better and I haven't heard anybody say but they think it makes it better so um I guess I don't see the disadvantage that CH yes um like I think my impression from the select board meeting the other day is that they couldn't vote on Plan B because it was we were too late in the process so I guess they were kind of stuck in that sense and we're hoping for or we would hope for an EV Amendment at think that's true is it Mike they can we can still amend up to on Thursday we could amend it on the town meeting floor I I think um I think the failing was to let it go to town meeting let the town meeting members decide and if at the town meeting they want to amend the article to just do plan B then an amendment could be submitted at the town meeting they couldn't have done that on Thursday they can language yeah we haven't posted the warrant yet so can't we change question board my Note have been clear on that and I have to say anytime there's going be Amendment on the floor it's just going to be A M I don't understand what's going on and then I don't think anybody votes for anything at that point well we don't amend it here we have to be the select vot of the water School commission do the Amendments they pres but it's not when Friday is that Monday is a holiday Friday M chair I have a question about the um the 3.5 million Mass Works Grant is that Grant written in a way that it's specific for the 47 LM Street or could like Roger's Point investing in infrastructure that might make more sense for a commercial and Industrial could we use that to Pure Water and Sewer in places that would be less residential that would make be more appealing to businesses no all all the grants that we receive are du specific for that okay and this expies at the end of the year doesn't make if it doesn't make this town meeting if it fails the grants gone you can reapply again but I get unless there's I me I know I have questions from question can I go people here I think Mr Banks do had a question yes thank you um just for clarification prior Finance Comm mean there was a lot of debate over the residents view the out street residence view of the project and I just want to clarify that not all residents are opposed uh I for one had concerns about the costs the betterment cost and um I do believe it was a reasonable um Foundation to put the $122,000 cap that with knowledge that not everybody May view it way I do uh in my personal situation uh I see the future value thatment is okay with me I know you have a difficult decision to make but I just want to lay out there that is not a change that all the residents are opposed and I just want to get that on the record I appreciate that thank you you just just two quick things the the math presented at the select meeting was close to 600,000 um and he didn't have a final number but it was uh 6.9 for Plan B minus the 3.5 minus the 2.4 for the water came out to a million but a million 600,000 certainly a lot less than 1.7 um just point of information to it the question I had and I don't think there's an answer but I think it's a an answer that maybe might be good to get before town meeting I believe that um back taxes and lean survive a bankruptcy is that true say that again um that back taxes and leans survive a bankruptcy in other words you can't file bankruptcy and stiff the town right I think it would be a negotiating point at some point okay but maybe a question for Town Council would be let's say we do it and I'm just saying we should ask the question nothing more but if we put this lean on during bankruptcy do we still get the claim I I just hate to see a developer come in they're all set they're ready to go and we say Where's that 1.7 million he says I don't have to pay you have a nice day just just we should get an answer that's all I will but I think the bankruptcy is done that that's that's what I mean just just to be sure questions anyone zo have questions I'll make a motion that we recommend 13 the meeting as presented second no no yes Z no PA no no Trace no bill no Steve no and I am a no as well just for the record I would be a yes for Plan B something happen between now and Thursday on Plan B what's that 10 Mike 11 something happened between now and Thursday and plan d0 check on that 110 just too many former chairs money so we good on that on so I don't know if all the new members know about the lake of pond management so um we started a few years ago um treating um some of the Pawns in in town um W AET the reservoir and chly pond and um they were really bad at the time like when it kind of if you drove by there in the summer and looked out over Bay Road on W con you might see blue dot in the middle and the rest was just all green um so over the last several years probably six or seven years now um we've been treating the pawns um and we've been borrowing to do it um right now from the last borrowing after the payments for this year we'll have um about 200,000 remaining and this would add another 15, 000 for the first time not borrowing putting free cash in rather than paying interest on it uh so this will get us another two or three years right now we're depending on the treatments that are needed it's been about 100 120,000 a year um to treat questions any word the article M here it does State borrow as well excluding that or yeah Madam chair yes B Mike wasn't there some lengthy arguments last year or the year before on um why we're going out so many years you know something like this why aren't we just doing it year to year um I don't remember um I I I recall some very um robust discussions um as why are we going out three years when you know so many other things we do year to year and I know part of the explanation was hey you get a discount but you know it's it should be almost reevaluated year to year I also thought these costs were supposed to go down over time and they don't seem to be um very little I agree with you on that um so to Bill's Point how much is it for one year of treatment it's been averaging about 100 to 120,000 a year um and my second question would be why doesn't this fall under the conservation's budget or the annual budget um why would it be an article because we always did it um as a lot of B's committee not conservation you uh to to Bill's point I think Bill uh the argument at least that I made last time around was why are we borrowing money for annual maintenance expenses which are recurring expenses which have never borrowed money I'm glad to see we're not borrowing money this time as long as our vice chair strikes it from our uh that language uh and we should never be borrowing money and I'm glad to see that we're not this time because this is painten expenses we don't borrow money to plow snow or you we should never be borrowed money from this type of thing in I and that's the argument I remember [Applause] Bill else any other questions from anyone the board on Zoom so I'll make a motion that uh we approve article 14 from free cash as presented for free cash not the borrow free cash is yeah 150,000 second all right motion a second uh yes yes Paul yes yes Paula yes I just don't like that it's a we're taking it from free cash I just feel it should be in the budget but moving forward that could be a good recommendation worksh yeah and yes Trace yes Bill no and Steve yes and I'm a yes 10 it's Kevin's that's I was going to say about the last one is one to n 10 one nine and then that one was 91 teach it's it's tough to be chair all right next um the next on your agenda is the bylaw Amendment the creation of the Great Woods overlay District but I think I'd recommend that you wait until Thursday night because this is going back to the planning board so tomorrow that I don't know if there's anybody here that want that came to speak on it do we want to listen to them anybody if you're willing that's up to the chair I mean keep it in mind keeping in mind that we don't have a map still right well this isn't speaking to the map okay oh I don't even know there is a map that yeah I don't think that the final the final area has been nailed down I guess what I was hoping to speak to b a copy for everyone you where you have one twice I think okay so I've got one if you want but I don't want you to feel slighted but but Jim I'm going to interrupt you come back Thursday night bring this for the over District we voted on last do respectus I will be in Maine on Thursday night and you don't have a phone service in made I'll oh boy get the St and Grave I'll be coming a on football game thday against I'm going try to do my best to be both factually accurate complete and brief which is nearly impossible I do understand that Planning and Zoning is rightly described as planning and droning it's it's not everybody's cup of tea I don't know why it's mine other than that's what I do for a living um I guess to start off with is to quote uh one planning board me member at one of the earlier meetings that this is a bad deal for Norton um to quote another planning board member had the state not required us to do it we wouldn't touch this with a 10-ft pole so that sets the stage so my thought is we should do what the state wants us to do do but do it in such a way that protects our hopes dreams aspirations and Investments um as a priority so to and I tried to put page numbers on this because someone said they didn't have page numbers the last time and this was converted from a PDF document and for whatever reason page numbers wouldn't stick I wrote them in by hand ran it through the copy machine they didn't come out I threw away about that much paper but I tried so one two three uh four I guess it's the fifth page um the the heart of it is uh 275 23.7 density bonuses um what this in effect does what we're asked to um or required to adopt is uh chapter 48 section 3A uh which is the adjacent Community NBTA zoning this section here in effect changes it from 4A 3A to what is known as 40R zoning which is the zoning that was imposed upon communities that actually have MBTA service like Mansfield adoro um I guess they made the mistake of Milton but um it's a whole different thing than what the State's asking us to do what this does is provides for mixed use commercial on the bottom residential up top five stories in height and if we're not required to have five story buildings in Norton it seems to me that we shouldn't have five-story buildings in Norton you know unless we're forced to it is possible that we could be forced to like right next to McDonald's is a 40b development that on one side is five stories tall part of the methodology for this is to help protect us from 40 BS but it seems wrong to me that what we use to protect us from 40 BS is to allow the worst that 40b could do to us because we have had 40b developments over single family homes about the worst they could do is a five-story building so what we're saying is we want to protect ourselves from having 40ds by allowing five story buildings and to me seems Seems wrong you might have a different opinion I'm just offering mine um so if we start there I'm striking or proposing to strike the density bonuses which would keep this at three three stories so from there we would go back two pages uh to the table of uses and once we strike the density bonuses we can strike the entire table of uses because it no longer applies to a certain extent there are other things on here that really to me make it confusing because the overlay District says you can have 15 units per acre of residential but that's an overlay underneath it is a commercial district with all of its rules and regulations and in here they've got some commercial uses some other uses and I'm thinking guys what are you doing it's bad enough to understand okay it's a commercial district and also we can do this so to change it from it's a commercial district and also you can do this and maybe some of this maybe some of this maybe one of those and two of those it gets to the point where who knows what you could do except a developer they read very well which is why I asked the question about the reimbursement on the sewer um then to go back back to the first page because I I covered the bulk of it um the first thing I did in uh let's say humbly offer was to rename it um let's give it the name that actually describes what it is instead of the greatwoods overlay District let's call it the high density residential overlay District then no matter where they make the map no matter what they do with the map it's an accurate description and it works um going down to 23.1 it shows the purposes for this District um what I've offered is a change to one rename it and the purpose of this District although stru stricken out is to meet the requirements of Mass general laws chapter 4A section 3A that tells everyone that's why we did it that's what it does it doesn't give any developer any promises they can't come to the planning board and say you said that this promotes this this this and this you can't deny us because you already said you wanted to promote it it doesn't stop the planning board from approving something but it takes away a little bit of Leverage um at the bottom of the page I have stricken out it says affordable units may be but are not required to be eligible for inclusion in the subsidized housing in what that in short means an affordable housing unit may be counted as part of our 10% to stop a 40b this is saying it doesn't have to be included in the 10% um that was not my suggestion was someone else's but the thought is we may not be able to require them to include it but we don't need to say it out loud we because we want to Hope if there are any affordable units built that they are counted towards our total um second page is quick it's definitions and I just crossed out the definitions that don't need to be there [Applause] anymore um third page permitted uses same thing just crossed out the things that when you get rid of the density bonuses no longer apply um lost pack of pages the table of dimensional standards there's was that five Paul thank you it it's good that fincom members can't count um if you look the minimum lot Square size what is proposed is 5,000 square ft that to me is a giant red flag because there are other sections in the zoning code that require landscape buffers between commercial uses and residential uses 5,000 foot lot popped in the middle of a commercial District now imposes a hardship on all the neighbors around it it didn't mean make any sense to me if we're going to um put a residential use in a commercial District if it's going to cause a hardship to its commercial neighbors it should be substantial you know it should be worth causing the hardship so I propos 990,000 Square ft which would mean it would be something of substance or it would would be there uh jumping down the minimum lot Frontage was 75 uh 300 seems more appropriate with 90 jumping to the bottom the state's requiring that we allow for 15 units per acre um The Proposal was 16 it really should be 15 I think if one it's a bad deal for Norton and two we wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole if it wasn't required let's and I think that's about it uh there was some as you go further on most of it is just housekeeping once you get rid of the density bonuses there's pieces that need to be straightened out and oh and I thought a fairly important one 17523 behind 10 says that in the interest of design flexibility and overall project quality and Upon A finding of consistency of such variation with the overall purpose and objectives of the over greatwoods overlay District the waivers can be granted we've had a recent project on Mansfield Avenue where a developer came in and they initially proposed 75 72 apartments um across from myself and across from the protus bar that that triangle there it's a village commercial District I don't know how you can say 72 apartments and say Village in the same sentence with a straight face I don't know how you can say 72 apartments in commercial with a straight face yet the planning board did find that it met all the requirements of Village commercial when they came to vote for the special permit it failed but still four members voted for it I think we need to be careful um because numbers come and go and things change and I think we need to keep things so that what is planned to be in a certain zone is there and it's not merely a suggestion um I I think it's dangerous to allow any Town board basically cut blank to say that the rules aren't rules anymore they're just guidelines so I hope that was short and I hope I covered all the bases and I would encourage you at some point to reconsider this your vote you took on the language I'm going to play myself because I wasn't ready the last night um but I think the language is probably as important as the map question did you present this to planning board these the suggest no they're aware of it I presented it to the board of Selectmen I don't know if that was a joint meeting but they were there presenting at the same time is the planning board looking at the language at all tomorrow at their meeting my understanding is they have no intention of changing it that's my understanding so I had put this together as a dreaded Amendment at the town meeting floor have you sent this to them though and to the plan board yeah not directly I know they have it I know some of the members have it so M chair it's my understanding Jim that what you've done you've taken their their language and Whitted it down to meet the state minimum requirements rather than doing any given giveaways of yes and did so in a form that's acceptable as an amendment that hopefully isn't crazy confusing but it is Planning and Zoning 12 any other coms questions so I think is if everyone's okay I mean we can possibly revisit this on Thursday and I'll see if revisiting tonight and revisiting on Thursday all right so next is um M Madam chair sorry go ahead see sorry and I know I apologize it won't be there Thursday but is it possible to make sure that somebody from the planning board is there to have a conversation with these these changes so we can all understand it I mean there's been a lot of work done here that I think there should be a conversation and a discussion so we can bring it down to a level and I'm not a fan of changing articles on the town floor especially planning board articles or bylaw changes that really scares me um it's hard to write those things never mind when you take the time and due diligence on it but to make an amendment on the floor uh is tough and you can miss things I think there's been a lot of good work done here that we should hear from all parties involved before we make our final final vote if we are going to um take this under consideration on I'm sure okay yes see we we'll make sure that we um invite them make sure that they are aware that we have questions still thank you so we can actually even unless they amend this themselves if they P by me tomorrow night all we can do Thursday night is around vote and vote against it as presented and leave it at that just won't be play they am yeah can we make a motion to reconsider this tonight I'm not vote on on just to take it back to where it was and not vote until Thursday so you going to reconsider it to to so we don't have a vote anymore so have a vote on it we voted we voted for it the other night you can make a motion to reconsider this way it comes back up on Thursday night we have to vote on it Thursday night suspend discussion Rec consider and not vote there's going to be a lot of people show I guess I'm not sure what what's Advantage I think we're not going to have a full board on Thursday night but they will be able to vote new thing call even if it's reconsidered if the vote can be taken the vote can't be taken right I think it's more important if they're here be considerate but not vote on the fin vote right they may not may not want that does that make sense I mean I if you if you entertain you know I'll entertain a motion if someone wants to second I just what is the pleasure of the board anybody see advantage of doing reconsidering now my my thought after seeing Jim's presentation is that I hope that the pl board might do the right thing tomorrow not sure they may bring back I think the planning board might disagree about what the right thing is Tim made it clear that one they SP slash years and two that he felt if I remember it correctly most of you were there he was saying that writing it to the very letter of the law is dangerous because then it gives the state some it could the state may say may reject it based on the fact that it doesn't that it only meets into the letter is how I understood him describing it and also that their intention was for the purpose to Encompass these things other people may disagree and and may want to make amendments to that or whatever but to him this is what he was representing for the planning board was that this is what they wanted to present what they felt was the best plan our discussion last week to bnie was the fact that the plan Arles always seem to come up to the 11th hour and get voted on at the night meeting and stuff and that's probably the reason they never passed really you know it's might just be just wants to get the vote out there and else all right we good all right moving on the elction is [Music] being under article three um amendments to the Personnel bylaw and um one of the Amendments is right now the position of the staff actually to the select board is just listed as office administrator um when we did our salary survey um and talked to some of the other towns um trying to find out different titles and the title um that I is executive assistant Select board the aison and licing coordinator and then the second part of uh the amendment to the plan um we did a salary survey and um the as part of the salary survey they recommended uh that we amend our um our wage table um so that we're competitive with uh the community similar to our size and in that with the you see the current and the proposed everyone that's working now currently is it is in the wage they're not no one's above the top so everyone's in with the current plan except for one obvious uh thing that's out of whack is Town Clark and U they've suggested that we raise the the high end of the Town Clark and as I'm talking with people trying to get Town clerks nobody's coming here for less than 90,000 a year and I you know I'll tell people well we'll see after October 21st whether we can go above the but as I said so this doesn't result by adopting this plan it doesn't result in any sound increases because everybody is within the within the range the current range but this keeps us up to date for the future and um you know the way they did it they looked at the 50th percentile of all the other communities U similar positions questions from the who's your payroll benefits coordinator administrator we don't have why Madam chair yes Steve go ahead Mike one one quick question on this yeah do you compare so I know just speaking of the payroll benefit coordinator right the schools has one as well are those ranges do they fit together meaning are they aligned with the school position versus the town position or any of the other positions similar to that um to be honest with you Steve I don't know um what the position pays in the school department I I know um when the company did the study they just looked at they didn't look at schools they looked at town government and what people were making in those areas but shouldn't we try and align this into a town range so we're in alignment so you know you're somebody doing the same job is is compensated the same across the town regardless if it's school or or town I think I remember a story where there was somebody that left the town side to the school side cuz they were paying higher weight is for the same job and I could be wrong there but it seems like that's a disservice M yes would I I mean I don't know how many employees exactly the town employs and how many the school employs but I would imagine it's like five or six times the number of people so I would imagine how this position is paid is somewhat based on that I don't know what other benefits and other things that may differ as well but that's just one difference I would guess yes uh I don't I'm not sure maybe Mike would know but I I think I I don't think we have any authorization of what the school pays I think it's a you know I think this school report to the school committee I don't think the town uh has a say either way I think they're totally independent that's you know based on Mass state law I could be wrong I'm not a lawyer but no matter what we say I think they can do whatever they want except for the school committee and I don't have a problem with that I think if we're going to make salary ranges or salary bands they should be somewhat similar regardless of the what area of the Town that's my only comment here and we could we could do this for every position say this one's bigger or bigger my only thing is it should be somewhat similar for the whole town other questions or I just want to understand this so for all of these positions right now you said except for town clerk they're making the high end of the current column well is that the current I I can tell you like office administrator is 73,000 right now so they're not even at the top of they're not at the top of the current right like Highway superintend at 106 so I mean this is really just future the assist account 75 so this would come into play because I'm just trying to think when we when we do budgets in the spring and you know obviously there's um percent increases for the payroll line items for each department um and we can only AFF four% or something like that so this would be more so if the current person in that position left and then we'd have to go out and higher and we would put these proposed salary ranges because I mean that's kind of what's Happening uh when we had a planner that was ready to come here and then of course the town where he was working like well what are they ping here okay we'll give you more right and right now we're trying to hire a town park we have an interim Town Park is that correct y um they they own same for a certain period of time ised oh through the election and so right now so we'd have to pass this a town meeting in order to even get people to consider to consider that M CH yes pres Mike if somebody's at the top of the current scale let's say uh process 119,000 let's say they were at the absolute top does that mean they don't don't not eligible for cost of living increases so that means that's it no matter if everybody else gets 2% that's it okay we have to go to town meeting and mik do you think that that increase really would make a difference some I do yeah doesn't seem like a huge increase but I mean we're yeah we were out of whack a little bit but just would be good to raise it up and select board has not being discussed this yet right what's that it's theic it's there article but they haven't discussed ITA so could could they change it I guess as as my point right yeah and I prefer to I'm this want to wait because they might think that the number on yeah is everyone okay with that all right so what's nextar I Noti that number went up [Music] so the separation expense is $1 163,164 34 Police Department 54328 uh fire department 52,000 and Board of Health 16797 it's been quite a year so we had uh two people retiring the Board of Health one person in the treasurer's office two well one retired and one left in the town clerk's office and then uh Poli and fire TI too um Mike what was the what was which one was the increase that do you need enumerated out Mike or just a final number usually the motion is $163,500 okay what was the increase from the last time that you shared with us um treasur I mean Tom Clark else missing on the last one mam chair yes what does this represent like are these unused sick time or is this something different um it it represents unused sick leave that's accumulated and also vacation so the way we do the vacation you have to earn your vacation so you work say um you work up through June 30th and say you're you have four weeks vacation if you retire on July 5th you get paid out for four weeks because you've earned those four weeks over the previous year and then uh sick buy back um is whatever is in the contracts for each of the various unions are in the um wage and salary plan for uh non-union employees some of them 30% of 150 days some of 50% of 150 days like that other questions this is from sorry this is from Cas correct correct to vote and select board to vote and approve this correct yes make a motion that we approve article two from free cash in the amount of $163,900 yes Paul yes F yes Trace yeah Bill yes Steve yes and the budget can we hold on on that until Thursday is everyone okay with that did you want to no I was just here if you have any questions I'm just keeping mic company Hang Out does anyone have questions Thursday are you gonna come back how your ask something all right the next is uh Capital Improvements funding and as I said email I recommend that we put 1.5 million into our Capital Improvement fund current balance is $327,500 Capital committee is meeting tomorrow um again um one of the members wasn't around for the last meeting so they didn't want to vote and hopefully Al to get on by Zoom so uh but uh the capital expenditures um that I'd be recommending are 1,833 uh so that will leave us with a balance of 744 319 to go into next year this year we're low with the 327 for a beginning balance can you say the number one more time like of what you recommend spending um 1,500,000 no that's putting in oh I'm sorry yep uh 1,833 and a million of that goes to the fire department and 83,00 just makeing sure you still awake what's the Target on that you said last year low 300 what ideal ideal you know you you want to not ideal but you'd like to be at least 500,000 in your Capital um so that when you go to the next whether it's May or fall if there's something that fails like in the schools the uh two water heaters that fail I mean we didn't have money available I mean that's an urgent need so it's good to have some money in your capital and this year they're getting to replace those two water heaters there was no hot water for a while at the high school because they both unfortunately filed at the same time they got one fixed but they still have another one there's no roll the Thum there like the uh free cash percent when you get home look up the uh look up the Dubai Police Department and you'll see they drive Lamborghinis you give unlimited these guys have drive a Lamborghini that yeah just like clet Mike um you got $2 million coming up for the schools should we be increasing what we put into the capital since we have excess free cash you have two million what you have you have 2 million coming up for school roof correct right so should we put a little more to free cash you leave free cash I I would like to leave some free cash um because the time was to borrow that money right and there a 56% reimbursement because uh we' be down to about and this this is only obviously depends what we Fund in the budget supplements but if it was all funded um and the 1.5 went into uh stabilization I mean 1 million in stabilization 1.5 in capital and 125,000 in opep which down to 2 million1 I I really was hoping we could carry that kind of money forward and then maybe say 50% of it would be available for next year's budget they all the estimate yet for this just going up to De now I think well they don't know they're hoping that the msba cover 56% yeah well they have to get approved for the project and the first pH the schematic design and uh go that so Mike if I if I understand I stood correctly from the select board they were something one is was looking at decreasing the amount so is this something we should hold off on if they have that conversation I think all eyes are pointing at uh Mr Maran I don't teach you to show um so the question that was brought up was uh should we take um some of the money that we were considering putting into um I forget one point the one of the 1.5 and putting some of that towards our debt and try to lower lower our debt as opposed to just putting it all into that account that was the question we want to vote on this now wait until V discuss together if if we voted yes and then they attended it a change have not necessarily we're an independent agency let's keep in mind yet don't have to vot we don't have to vote we're supposed to be the checks and balances they could change the number on the article correct because it's their article oh yeah we can V that to recommend that or not correct Mo right I guess that's my point is they could change the number that's what I was bringing up to we voted yes wait mam chair I think there was also discussion and R confirmed put putting additional funds into stabilization I thought I heard in that uh if we were going to put it if we were going to pay down a debt maybe put it in stabilization as opposed into Capital Mike it how do it work with paying down debt early in the municipality because if I buy a municipal bond from you it's callable after so many years you can't just say I'm going to take you out right now how does that work um there's certain debt that our financial advisor would have to there's certain that we can pay off early than there's others that that you can't and and one of the points of putting more money in the capital is like um the the highway department this year is looking to pay double on a payment correct to save on interest um and I know that uh when they re buy vehicles the police department they pay cash for those Vehicles we don't we don't borrow so Mike oh yeah Mike can you just um explain which just answered no but uh why we can't just invest what we want to use for next year um to get interest after my money that we had gting interest well how can you explain how that's different the the money that you like basically that this has to get turns of De back to free cash we if we don't spend money right we can't we have to turn it back to free cash we can't just invest it at the state doesn't let you do that no it uh it stays in um unappropriated balance and then at the uh if nothing happens with it next year when we do get a free cash certified it gets recertified as free cash but you do get interest in whatever does gain interest what it's in it'll gain interest but not we can't go out like we can some of the other funds and be more rest that the G Madame shair yes James uh the money that is set aside in the capital Improvement funds uh to earn interest and the interest stays in the capital Improvement funds so that you know if we have half a million dollar in there by the end of the year we'll have I don't know call it 530,000 if we made $30,000 worth of interest uh what you cannot do is have an article for a specific purpose say to buy a vehicle for 50,000 and then have that particular separate purpose earn interest I don't know if I'm yeah but the actual Capital Improvement account the capital Improvement stabilization fund is earning interest and that is not going into free cash that is stain within the capital Improvement the stabilization fund is also earning interest and that's staying within the stabilization fund the opep fund also earn interest those are separate accounts that get to keep the interest in the account thanks James I I think that came up at Capital other night because uh the discussion was uh with Mike I think on the ambulance I mean on the ladder truck if we appropriate 275,000 whatever it is for the lad truck and it's payment one of 10 and we keep doing that for three years and the lad truck finally comes in after three years um the I think someone made the point well then the fight a h Moon it would have that interest like no that interest stays in capital the money doesn't leave Capital just because we approve it doesn't leave Capital till it's spent the bill appro all right do want to hold off onf is the funding is the amendment okay so we're going to hold up on that on both of those right because we don't have capital's recommendations anyway for 19 is op is that 125,000 of fre cash so this would be 5,000 what we put in last year and that's sticking with our program we the increase in 5,000 a year with our goal to get to 2,000 a year um for the new members um OPB I know we talked about it before it's other post employment benefits so it's um for retire health insurance and uh the cost for that and it just started maybe like a decade ago that the actuarials um it became a requirement that you set up an oped fund and then they're like okay yeah but you got to put mining in the oped fund and it come it comes up really when you go out to borrow they want to know if you have an oped fund and in our last Financial policy we set up a goal to get to2 200,00 ,000 a year the OPB and right now um Bristol County pension system we pay like $3 million a USA to Bristol County for the pension system because it's not fully funded and so we're paying this premium and our goal is that and they're supposed to be fully funded in 2034 so that if we got get to this 200,000 and keep putting 200,000 in once that Bristol County's fully funded and our payment drops from 3 million down to what say uh 500,000 a year we'd have that extra money to startop funding up op and do you want to know what liability Isa tell I'll tell it's like the national deficit just telephone 95 m797 6 $76 bud and Sh it's it's Mike's getting the Bugatti when he it's kind of a f i mean it's like if a company went bankrupt and there was no one around to pay for the health insurance for the retirees I mean we fund it every year in the budget but and know hopefully we're not going to shut down and disappear as a if someone they 95 million cool thank you questions that make a motion [Music] we, sorry I'm trying to make it to the end of the meeting all right I hope you enjoy your meeting room and now you don't have to float between the studio the library and somebody's house so enjoy just as long as you move the furniture anyway you want I like to see you Thursday thday get to the right that's true it's pocket lot all right I have a motion a second right any further discussion okay um Brandon yes Gavin yes Paul yes Zack yes Paul yes Bonnie shout out to our former member who always wanted to vote against but yes uh Trace yeah Bill yes and did Steve come [Music] back said he had to step away for I two my yes so that's n and article 19 is stabilization and my recommendation is that we uh put a million dollars into the stabilization fund um so if we put a million dollars into the stabilization fund our stabilization fund will finally be at our five% a little bit more than a 5% so that um next year we could put Less in we could be at a point where uh if the budget goes up then we agree that we're going to put more money in stabilization to stay at a 5% it won't be as big of a hit every year any questions on that that's is that connected to in terms of s board vot is that connected to their Capital Improvements funding right and I'm wondering if that could change too would um where are we at with [Music] [Laughter] Miss such a beautiful smile ask a question on the open why what was the reasoning for voting against that he he would vote against increas I think was what it was like we kept increasing it every year and he felt like we're never going to meet it so he just mad had to do it but the bonding agencies look at that that's one of the things just like the stabilization want that 5% so they they want to see you have a plan in place in case bank so he would argue we should make the contribution but whatever the year was seven years ago whatever he would say we shouldn't increase it we should just keep making you know that whatever minimum we were at that or that am amount that we were at no Paul Paul was trying to get it to zero [Music] I had to make a comment on stabilization yeah for me I know everybody's you know we talk about get to 5% so we can meet out bonding for me I don't look at it that way I think you know it should be an emergency Reserve account and if we had adequately funded it year year in and year out we wouldn't have been in the situation that we were last year been able just transfer some money if we had a healthy 5% you know I don't know how anybody runs their finances but I would I I wouldn't I wouldn't sleep at night KN when I had a 5% Reserve in my checking account yeah you know uh God forbid you got sick that's something um so I would like to see that I don't you know it's great 5% should be the the floor not the ceiling uh because you're going to have these years where a recession comes something happens and then you're lay on your teachers and then you're going through what we went through last year and I think it is a recommended floor yeah yeah we're looking at it you know I'm hearing it the way it's coming off like well this is you know we got 5% we're good now you know that should be the minimum you know it would be nice to have a nice healthy stabilization so you have a bad year we don't have the revenue something happens you're a recession hey we need $2 million $2 million it's not the crisis that we saw this spring um to the use of free cash yeah I mean it's yeah if this year we have an extra million dollars in free cash perhaps it should be 1.5 million in dis stabilization perhaps it you know I threw the number two million in stabilization so we can talk about that on Thursday but uh it should be the the flu not the ceiling because just past history all right anyone have anything else are we just going to talk about Thursday making sure we have Quorum yes I I think I counted them all text I sent out I think we were good yeah everybody changed their mind from what they told me remember who it was but we had where the technology work Zach and um school I think school well School te was invited I believe they also will be part of the joint meeting as well 7 o' super fun o as an excuse right now well I got a new technology from Zach blaming me Z got be a new hotot be blaming me if that don't work we'll go with the stall that's it chair all right yes all right second all right Brandon yes yes yes yes yes yes [Music] B everyone we'll see you'll see you Thursday