yeah you CL we do okay that's right so I want to go I want to go through the use table this is always the most difficult task and know trying to put this thing to bed so the closer we can come to putting it to bed today then we can focus on other parts of this so what I've done is broken it up a lot more than it was broken up in the existing byw and I think it it makes it a little easier more user friendly for people so why don't we walk through it a page at a time since I broke out all the sections of the individual page I think the only notable thing on the first page is um lodging house and I think seven eight and N lodging house cluster development and senior housing so on lodging house I guess my first question was why do you run a lodging house or even more appropriately do you have a lodging house there I think this may be a clarification of existing definition okay because that has uh been the focal point of a recent application so it's all fresh in our mind if I could add um I would I'd like to add a lodging house to our table to be defined if if or in our definitions in a ways but I wouldn't want to remove our uh test home uh on the uses it's like an expansion on the Bed and Breakfast still out of a single family home yeah I think I if I remember ter home you can have up to like nine 10 yeah yeah looks like we removed B&B as well yeah I wouldn't want to get rid of that either I might have move that over to accessory let me just look but maybe I missed it maybe yeah I back to the residential uses residential and not accessory it's kind of 5050 you know it's both the principal use and an accessory use because usually the Proprietors are living in the main house the main the main building on the property so you want to keep tourists home as as a has differentiated from lunching house well I I would yeah because it's out of a single family residence as opposed to a standalone boarding house which is essentially the same as a motel or a hotel if there was a way to group like a a a boarding home that's not a do Amendment so just like a like a transient housing that not out of a single home that that should be grouped I think with a hotel motel I think Mark I don't think we formally met I'm Nick AA Fred The Building Commissioner only enforcement officer I haven't made it to a meeting yet so nice virtually meet you sir thanks lots of great things about you so um excited to to inject my opinion I guess we could say but I guess what I'm what I'm thinking Steve is in my you you've done this a heck a little longer to me but we don't have a definition of tourist home and I don't think I have one in my building Cod either so I think that's where our hangup was on the most recent petition in front of the planning boy Tim right is that what you're referring to we have tourist home we don't have lodging or rooming that's right we have tourist home to find where did I get that definition for lodging house from my my stock definitions cuz I added yeah law probably okay let me look up let me look up Tor in this wonderful very useful book I think some folks at rers had p on their hands yeah we've got a definition here for ter P it says and establishment in a private dwelling that supplies temporary accommodations to overnight guests for a fee kind of like bed and breakfast it says C bed and breakfast okay yeah private yeah you want to live with without an establishment in a private dwelling that supplies temporary accommodations to overnight guests for a fe now bed and breakfast was limited to a certain number of number of people wasn't it yes it is and what is that remind I think it's 10 three three guests for a bed and breakfast there'll be three guests for a bed and breakfast and 4 to 10 for a tourist home yes you can live with that that's our current that's our current definition yeah per unit or total three roads rooms okay one to three guest rooms that can be occupied um what does it say so a private owner occupied residence with one to three guest rooms the bed and breakfast is subordinate and incidental to the main res residential use of the building individual guests are prohibited from staying at a particular bed and breakfast establishment for more than 14 consecutive days in any one-year period perfect right I just gave you the new definitions I didn't give you the old I'll go back and make sure that we have that and then I'll add my definition to the new on for tourist home and I think that's where we are let me just find the right place for it I I think the difference between the bed and breakfast and a tourist home is that it aside from the more guest they don't have to provide food we even have to provide breakfast just the all right okay Closter development how's that working out is there anybody take advantage of it yes we have one right now actually to me going on how successful has it been since you adopted it years ago I've been since 2019 so this is the first one I've seen um it's to be addition to the community it's kind of off a beaten path I think they do well but I think it's I think it's fairly in my opinion from a developer I think it's fairly restrictive I don't think it really allows for much well I usually recommend a device and it's probably in about 50 places now called flexible development do you know do any of you know where Canon Forge is in Foxboro no not that far away might be worth it might be worth it to take a look so Canon Forge is a couple of hundred acres it's off Mechanic Street and it basically allows for singles duplex and tries you the way it works is you do a yield plan how much development can occur on the property in full conformance with zoning subdivision Wetlands regulations considering water sewer parking let's hypothetically say that the answer is 20 um if if you want to build those 20 without respect to frage or lot withd or area requirements in fact there are no requirements you could build this as a condominium if you wanted to then take advantage of that the benefit to the community is that probably the most valuable resource on the property whether it's a meadow or a wooded area or a pond is protected because you're not spreading the houses out so w so widely you're clustering them in a specific limited area but the developer there's an advantage just sticking with 20 because I can shorten up the roads and save hundreds of thousands of dollars and as long as what gets approved on special permit usually by the planning board is um you know something that you like well then that's a good deal for everybody it also contains a provision that says that you can um add a few units and typically those units would be for um more open space very low minimum open space 20% I your I bet yours is 50 in the in the in the cluster um or something higher than 20 that's for sure so the idea would be to incentivize the developer to take advantage of this and um get them into the room to talk about a better style of development than a conventional subdivision and because it's on special permit if the developer is intractable you don't you don't have to give them anything you just send them back to the subdivision RS and they go forward under subdivision but I think it makes for a really um a positive good way of doing things I I I put this into Berkeley and dayon 25 years ago and they've used a few of these um on on a few of the subdivisions but the term that does the most work on this is Gren I don't think they've had a conventional subdivision since the 1990s every one of them is a flexible development so it takes a little more work my rule of thumb is that a third of the developers will take a look at it and do it a third will do it only if you educate them and and PR them to do it and the third will tell you to pounce in and they'll never do it and they don't have to they can stick with a conventional sub right now all I'm asking you to do take a look at and I'll send it to you as a file when I send the next stuffff around if you only had one of these things in the past 30 years I live in one many developments forting to see you're you're all talking same somebody say what you want to say than one yes we have significantly more than one those I can think of five okay at least maybe do they look different when you when you drive in or drive by no other than the lots are smaller they look like a nice subdivision okay I'll take a peek at it we don't have to change it I'm just suggesting that and then the other thing I had here was number n which is senior housing if I remember correctly you had something about Assisted [Music] Living um we have housing for the elderly yeah well that can mean anything uh it also has nursing and condoles homes scratched out yeah so nursing and condoles homes are Politically Incorrect today you would call it a long-term care facility under state regulations and housing for the elderly I mean could really be a subdivision in all in which 80% of the units are restricted to one occupant 55 gears or older which is the federal fair housing act so what I'm calling senior housing and you will see it in when I distribute the model is independent living assisted living memory unit care long-term care or congregate care meaning some combination of the other ones I just mentioned and I think you know I'm I'm eligible certainly and I just put my parents through 20 years of this um learned quite a bit about the industry so the idea would be that this is available by special permit and it would it would allow people to age in place basically but it it it I'm looking at opening up this into the greater diversity of types because I can tell you right now when you put your parents in independent living you're three years away from moving them into assisted living when you put them in Assisted Living you're two years away from putting them into memory care when you put him into memory care you're a year and a half away from putting him in a long term that's that's my history to to speak on this a little bit I've looked a little bit into the designs of uh dementia Villages they call them where they plan like essentially a little Community that's uh you know available to older folks or uh I guess suppose people that are handicapped where it's um essentially a place that's monitored or controlled to a bit of a degree so it's familiar and accessible at least fully Ada Beyond Ada comp compliant um if we could develop some sort of area that's made specifically for that type of design element if anybody wants to look into dementia Villages well that that's kind of like memory unit uh in the in the typical pance of the of the industry so I don't think I've ever heard of that term but um we certainly could take a look at whatever you want to take a look at the idea would be to do it by special permit pretty much in any District except the industrial before I go any further somebody had an email after I circulated this a month ago or so and the question was you know who's what does ba stand for well that's board of appeals I I could not find in the buo as we um as you approach the use table a key so your current use table just says um I think it just best be right three different entities could be performing the function of SP and that would be board of appeals planning board or Board of Selectmen and it's not random so you you would have to name the entity that would perform the function so typically what I do in the table is put planning board PB if it's planning board ba if it's Board of fields or SB if it's select board and I I didn't see anything that would allow me to do that so I just started poking at it but I I guess my my statement here is that none of these things should be taken with anything but a grain of salt if you want to change from one entity to the other it makes sense for example to put PB for cluster development because it probably requires a subdivision application at the same time I don't like sending people to two places when one will do and the same thing would be true for senior housing developed as a subdivision uh but it's like campus planning in many cases which is more of a planning board job than a zba job so just just keep it in mind if I miss if I got the wrong one tell me and I'll make you I'll make the correction I think in the existing use table SP is special permit and all that flows through the planning board okay yeah so anything that is so that's the planning board is the uh special permit granting Authority and that's it okay and the board of appeals doesn't do any special permitting 40 and they also I would expect handle alterations to non-conformities yes okay I make I make all these Bas in to PBS wants to volunteer for more work I mean that's also but I would I would leave open the possibility that there may one day when one day may come when you want to put something ba so I'll add a key and you'll see okay the break up yes we had checked with um Town Council and she had just said you know from her experience board is generally the um special permit granting Authority when a site plan review is also required which covers a decent amount of this territory okay it is usually hand toand combat as to who special permit granting Authority I mean for example in some Town select boards Mo most recently have kept all marijuana uses under their thumb I see that I see that a lot but like Dam does it slightly differently than most towns they say that uh you you might need for example um a special perit I'm looking down the chart here a few levels uh you might need a special permit for a gas station motor vehicle light service but if the facility size exceeds 25,000 it's a major residential project and all major residential projects go to the planning board for the special so that's one way to um that's that's kind of functionally the equivalent of combining site plan and special permitting 25,000 is just a madeup number could be 10,000 could be 15 could be 20 we do the same thing with industrial or commercial or both yeah it's over 10,000 so it kicks to a special permit surprisingly we have a lot of applications for 99,900 square F feet that many but enough and I got their Wastewater systems exceed 99,900 gallons too and they're at the board of health and not the D okay so I'll makeing PB throughout but I will put a key in with ba and SB I ask why the um under senior housing under Village Center core the clate is in red was that a question yeah I don't remember why I put it in red let me go let me look I think it's in red because there was no housing at all in Village Center [Music] cor no it does allow housing for the elderly by special permit I think there top of the shop housing too yep there [Music] is I don't know I don't know answer nor have a better memory than that I'll Remember by the end okay all right let's at B so um what I typically find is that most towns um cut the corner on what's protected by the Dober amendment I I like to put what the do Amendment says so uses of of land structures is in the do Amendment uh the educational purposes done land own relase by the Commonwealth blah blah blah that's in the chapter 48 section three and a Child Care Center School age Child Care Program is in the dment protections of se3 as well and that's not to be confused this child care center with a family daycare home which is typically done out of a house and it has a small and a large size small is up to six non-resident kids large is up to 10 nonr kids resident or non-resident and I'm considering that an accessory use Family Daycare home so it's back in the accessory use section those will pretty much you have no choice that's what you have to do um essential Services is what you called it public uses but there's a definition that I've added and it's basically anything that functions as a monopoly U with Orient toward services so water utilities um gas electricity all of that stuff would be an essential service the definition of an essential service is Services provided by a Public Service Corporation or by governmental agencies through erection construction alteration gas electric steam water um collection communication Supply Disposal Systems not including Wireless Communications facilities and the bottom line is that all of this is regulated or supervised at least by the dpu DTE and you can require a special permit which is what I recommended I usually recommend it across the board but right now you have just special permits and those boxing and you allow it by right in other places um and I put it on a special permit across the board usually because they have the power to if if they think it being unfair they have the power to take you to dpu DTE and dpu DTE can override your local Authority so you might the I guess the only suggestion I would have on this one is that you might think about um putting permit requirement all the way across the board I have no issue with that right you want me to change it yeah okay I'm okay with that yeah okay the next one is federal state county or Municipal you had government buildings um to the extent it's federal or state or County you can't regulate it with a special pent because of the supremacy clause uh I had a a recent case in Cambridge where the old midd sex County Courthouse all 260 ft of it was decommissioned uh they the prisoners were kicked out of the top floor July of a few years five years ago and once the last prisoner left dcam took it over the state's property agency and they flipped it to leget Mcall for 32 million bucks it's being redeveloped right now so but but as long as it was it was built by the county and then later it was owned by the state as long as it's in a superior governmental hand that is above the food chain of town you can't regulate it there's many cases on post offices from across the country which is obviously Federal so I'm going to break that out into federal state or County buildings and put yes yes yes yes yes and then keep local Municipal and is that the way we want to regulate municipal buildings so it would be what you see there it would be pb pb pb and three SES in a no but if it's Federal County to State you would have wise all the way across I'm cool with that it makes sense okay agreed I don't see us building another building for a very long time 100 years Laura 100 [Music] years we keep bringing it letting houses buil here maybe know what do you see another municipalities Mark well remember you're regulating yourself so you the one thing people don't like is when you have an absolute right as a municipality to put the DPW Yard in an expensive neighborhood yeah that's the kind of thing so so sometimes break it out U municipal buildings libraries firehouses put it anywhere you want but the the the line begins to dissolve when you talk about Municipal yards yeah so I I could make a separate thing that says you know municipal buildings and then Municipal DPW yards and regulate it slightly differently I mean for example in the r80 that's probably where you're going to have the most friction maybe maybe you put it in the r80 by special permit I just keep them i' keep them as municipal buildings or uses as one combined use okay well there a lot of different nobody cares if you build a you know a dog park actually some people r80 probably has the least friction too it's the most uh loose with farming at the widest widest spaces the the one benefit I do see to differentiating buildings from other uses like storage of large Machinery is right now it says no in industrial where DPW storage of materials or equipment might make sense to go into industrial yeah I'm perfectly cool with that so maybe that is a cause for separating out municipal buildings versus Municipal accessories properties but we shouldn't limit a municipal building from the industrial Zone either if we need to have a department there no that's no good point no it's all debatable I guess if it's under special permit anyways where it is but we should our full rain as a town to put our stuff any in any Zone all right so what I'm heing get in a bad mood I'll say special permit everywhere and make them talk to us so if that's the case then maybe we leave it as is and change um Municipal Building or uses just to a why and Industrial well let me let me suggest this number five will St will say federal state county yes across the board number six will say municipal buildings and it'll say uh PB in the first the three residential districts and would you could you live with four four yeses after that I could do the four yeses but I wouldn't want the uses taking off taken off of it and then my my point would be that I think what you could say is municipal buildings or uses other than a DPW Yard I'll find a nicer way to say that and then the next would be Municipal yard where materials and heavy vehicles are stored and it would have its own regulations which would probably be at least ba ba ba ba um through the first three and then I don't to let you do with the next four does that we already have regulations on how many commercial vehicles or large Vehicles over a certain size can be on on an individual lot in a residential Zone that might regulate even a m Municipal lot well the rule for municipalities is that you you're free to do what you want you're free to give yourself a a ride an exemption but if you don't you're stuck with the rules and that's dimensional as well as use so you could say the municipal buildings could be 100 feet tall and you're free to treat them differently in that respect I me again I would just say combine them into buildings and uses and do the yeses all the way into the IND Industrial Park just do the special permits in the residential Zone okay so then it would have a line six and six would say municipal buildings or uses and it would be three PBS and four yeses if that's cool with everyone else hearing no objection all right public parks and recreation areas I'm sure you want those hospital um sry can we stop there can I ask those uses are different than What's Done in D open station recreational uses it which it strikes me that most of these things in D if not all of them are private not public okay then going to the back of our comment about the dog park or let's say a skateboard park do we want to require a special permit so that we have some ability to control where they're going and have the least amount of um I can't think of a word I want to use getting late um impact I guess on residents skateboard parks can get noisy we can't if it's not special permitted we don't have any ability to condition hours we could have kids in there at midnight skateboarding keeping up the neighbors and well you're talking about public correct yes see you know I think we could make the national news if we put pickle ball [Laughter] in a public pickle ball park is not popular no no I have heard that one yeah neither a rail trail neither a rail trail well I if you if you go back to D and look at the uh number three notice the hiking in yellow yes I'm I represent Brooker Natural Resources Council and the angry neighbors who live next to the parking lot have said that the road is private and as such the hiking has to be limited to the parking lot parcel on a 650 Acre Site and that hiking is not in allowed use because it's not in the zoning B we actually had to go to Berkshire superior court on that and I'm I'm pleased to say we're working at up but the neighbors are despicable people can't walk in the woods huh it's a an open field it's called Hollow fields and it's it's the crown jewel of bnc's Southern County Holdings it's spectacular if I could on on the passive outdoor non-commercial recreational uses Etc y y is there any way I don't know how anybody else feels about this that we can remove the word non-commercial do we do we not approve of any commercial use of like a beach or a picnic Ro like is there an option for that well I I think I would take the word non-commercial to mean for which a fee is not paid and I think I would say passive outdoor recreational uses whether or not a fee is paid such as blah blah blah like for example you can go to bnc's hollow fields and you can hike and you don't pay a fee but M Mass Autobon has trails and you do pay a fee well hypothetically what if somebody were only willing to open their land if they could charge a fee like Borderland does do they not have an option to open up a park for a fee that's why I would put there passive outdoor recreational uses comma whether for a fee or not comma and take out take out non-commercial I would yeah I would rather take out the word non non-commercial and have the option of you know somebody choosing to open up a place that they can actually make money off of I me one example of that is everland Park which we already have and you know they do charge a fee it is Town run yeah well if it's Town run it's probably back in column b or category B because they're in for it though does it put it over there no I I think you know I could add the same language to to number six public parks and recreation areas playgrounds whether for a fee or not but they're public they're governmental I I mean I I would I would like to just in my my personally I would like to not define whether it's a government Enterprise or a private Enterprise or whether or not it has a fee a park or a beach or hiking should generally be something almost any entity can do and count should shouldn't you distinguish between a a government property and a private own privately owned property though well I think we already do with government building our uses or municipal government uses this is establishing what the use is I guess as a hiking trail or something like that specific use as opposed to the more General use it seems redundant if we already have if we have both recre outdoor recreational uses and Municipal uses on our chart to add Municipal outdoor recreational uses is is redundant I think yeah you could make the argument that it's already included under Municipal Building or use so why we just take number six out but remember municipal building of use is going to be three PBS and four yeses oh no I wouldn't take I wouldn't take Municipal Building or uses out but I think we should just for Passive outdoor recreation just remove the word non-commercial we don't have to add anything else to it or Define it in another way just make sure that if somebody wants to do a park for a fee that is allowed in our bylaw okay all right I'm back at the end of B which is seven and eight I don't think there's anything controversial there well do we talk about was there no um support for special permitting Parks and Recreations and playgrounds Municipal remember any state state or county park or playground is going to be suem supremacy clause allowed yeah so this reference to public parks and recreation areas is really and playgrounds is really just Municipal I also sorry before we go beyond the outdoor recreation it's not allowed in the industrial zone is is it debatable that we could special per it whether a hiking trail or something goes through an industrial zone or we don't we don't want people walking through an industrial park I the rail trail goes through an industrial section I was going to say that there I think of the rail trail I mean it literally goes right through it there's there are trails in the industrial Zone look at like the the Valentine property Valentine tool and stamp it that's all industrial but it's the middle of the woods yeah I could see a commercial indoor recreational facility that IND real Zone Trampoline Park yeah or something like that I feel L to wor about people you know there's positive materials [Music] Machinery I mean I think all of that would have to be taken into consideration in the granting of the special permit but again there we we have trails that cross the industrial zone right now there are people walking in the woods a way to regulate it might be beneficial chair is it Mansfield mostly it's connecting through it's the next portion that's going through the state it's the I forget who's yeah we have one that goes from it's just about to be completed it goes from lower framing charmford Westford Acton conquered subb is burning out now and then it goes into uh I think it goes to frham from sedbury it's great people still don't like it no people on complain I'm sure I would be thrilled I would be so thrilled yeah it's great it really is great what's behind my house it's fine hop on your bike and go that's great yeah but it yeah it is to reiterate is there any special permit in the industrial zone or is it a straight no from everybody yeah you got some I mean why would okay I guess the the park or the public land um you're not going to stop it in the industrial Zone you iple public parks and recreation areas you could regulate that in the industrial zone right does need to I just put special permit and we have a high bar for it we can have a high bar for it there you go that's fair thank you okay all right I made that change any problems with Hospital any problems with Cemetery we have a definition for Hospital right like I'm just want to make sure the industrial part doesn't like we don't I'm thinking of down by quick stoping that way I I think a hospital requires like overnight stays okay from the hospital and medical facility just to delineate the two yeah typically a clinic is not an overnight stay in a hospital is you don't have to stay overnight but it allows for overnight stays that's why it was in the residential cable original the definition Cemetery definitely allows for over okay let's go to sleep they love your animals down there and are these Steve are these the ones that you had submitted as potentials I I did a while back these this is not what I have submitted at all at all but I I got into the agricultural table a while ago and kind of broke it down but essentially it's uh let's see how could we break it down right here let me Sor bring up what I had um my apologies so if we just did agricultural uses as defined by Mass General Law chapter 128 1A then that would be clear enough to do as a special permit across the board and any agricultural use that meets mass that that Law plus Mass General law 40a section three would be allowed by right yeah and that would cover the entire agricultural table except that the first statute that you mentioned I believe includes certain types of Agriculture that are generally unpopular such as swine Sim livestock forbearing animals right that's why it would go for special permit and the only one we would guarantee by right is what meets uh masteral law 40a section three which requires it to be on uh at least two acres and make money or if not five acres we're only allowed to regulate Parcels under two acres that are farming under five or they're not qualified or if they're not qualified can you define qualified please there's a definition in the statute now that says it's an an acre of land which generates at least $1,000 in business a year and it only has to have two acres if it does whereas if it's the old definition is the 5 Acres uh in the parcel including any roads that go through the parcel the yada yada yada but agriculture is a short way of saying agriculture horiculture viticulture aquaculture cure silver culture all of those things are defined as Agriculture and there's there are few nasty things in there which of course you can't stop if it's five acres or better or two qualified or better and the ones that usually jump out as being objectionable to people would be pig farms Andor correct animals yeah it's it's the as land should be deemed to be an agricultural use one primarily and directly used in raising animals including but not limited to dairy cattle beef cattle poultry sheep swine horses ponies mules goats bees and fur bearing animals for the purpose of selling animals or products derived from such animals in the regular course of business or un primarily or directly used in a related manner which is incidental theto and represents a customary and necessary use in raising such animals and preparing them or their products for Market there's a couple of interesting cases that illustrate the dangers of that one of them is McDow versus Sturbridge gu a a parcel with seven acres in size his front of the lot looks a lot like anybody else's house and then when it clears the houses of Street it blossoms out into a bigger parcel in the back and he's got a barn on it the neighbors wonder why he's got big box trucks coming dumping dog food he's growing dogs in the barn for the moment and he claims that that's agriculturally protected in the neighbor States kennel and the court says well they're all his dogs and he's just gring them it's agriculture he's growing them for sure the shop he wins and then last year or two years ago there was a guy growing bearded lizards I believe it was in the town of Oxford and he was selling them too I I think he had five acres and they told him it wasn't Agriculture and so the cases are very unpredictable sure writing stable is also on a 5 acre parel that's deemed to agriculture whether or not you have other people's horses so dos they got to be all yours horses they can be other people's that's why I feel like it's it's almost counterproductive to divide the agriculture so so many ways where it really is basically about whether you have two acres 5 Acres or or whether we want to permit farming on less than 5 Acres which when it comes to like agriculture minus livestock I don't think there should be almost any restrictions on like if somebody wants to grow corn on the tiniest lot in town they should be allowed to um you know flowers a nursery beekeeping should not be restricted it doesn't take any room really that that's that's livestock but it shouldn't be limited where currently we have where it just says livestock over 50 it you need five acres well 50 cows requires a greatly different amount of room than 50 chickens or 50 bunnies or or somebody that raises wants to raise bear to dragons or snakes or fish shouldn't be limited to the number 50 in livestock that it doesn't make sense so how would you then cut the mustard here number one would stay because you got to do that what about 23 four five six seven you you simp to be saying that if it's um three for example if it's under five acres or less than two qualified a farm Orchard Nursery Greenhouse or tree farm okay you seem to be saying that if it's under siiz number four you can have livestock but not pigs poultry rabbits or cows Again by by saying we which which livestock we can have are we we're limiting what types of livestock because there's can you have other types of poultry aside well I mean it says poultry but like there's rabbits allowed but can you have guinea pigs do we Define that like M Mass law allows us to have more domestic animals than we fine i' say says cows but are we allowed to have a bison or or a yak a llama or a Lama alpaka a camel uh ostriches emus like these are all things that are domesticated species that we've not defined in our things but Mass law does so should we just say all domesticated livestock maybe with approval from animal control or or whoever has to certify that there enough room for the animals I I I put a little thing up in the C box at the top there says you know let's look at the Board of Health regulations if you have any I didn't BL that did that do that but do you have any Board of Health regulations very pres there's certain regulations that the Board of Health reg would would rule under it has to do mostly with things like location of the stable or the barn to the property yeah they do our Ken licensing and stuff like that for like if if somebody on a on a small lot if somebody on an acre or less wanted to have a horse not a whole Farm but a horse how did how do they qualify for that right now like are you just allowed to have it you it doesn't qualify as a you can just have a horse as a pet and it's not a farm or I have neighbors that have horses and they are definitely not on five acres which is what I mean like how I don't think we should regulate small Lots from having livestock necessarily they should not be overburdened by livestock they can't handle but again if somebody's on an acre like can't they have a horse guess the question I would have is who determines whether or not that property is over burden with these animals that's what I yeah that's what I'd like to find as opposed to a number of animals or the size of lot necessarily Beyond Mass law there's got to be way uh Mike you probably see this other communities but to direct that regulation of somethingone specific or maybe more qualified than a a for but a ter a building official right I mean the animal control or B of health and well regulations to determine the adequacy of a LP for a a horse right I mean I guess to your point Steve it somebody on the Grove on a 5,000 foot lot probably doesn't have adequate space to have a horse right you know what I mean not not to not to push um you know any type of responsibility anybody else but is that something the zoning you want the zoning enforcement officer running around if somebody comes and says I want to have you know two Cloud deals on my property I have 7,500 Square ft or is that something that the Animal control officer should regulate or board a house should Reg so there's got to be a way through through this process and Mark maybe we we Le on you a little bit but to to to get that I guess Avenue right give somebody an Avenue to get to that point I think I'm behind you Steve I there I don't think you should restrict somebody from having the ability to at least petition some board or authority in town to to see if they would qualify for something like that but I can send you uh in addition to sending you the flexible development piece I can send you a uh couple of towns I believe one of them is just up the road it might be Sharon they have very good border of Health regulations but it's not it's not a zonning package it's a board of health package maybe we could develop a a like a side chart that describes the minimum amount of square footage each man each animal requires that's a Bo of Health matter I don't think zoning is ever going to be expert enough in that unless you hire somebody from the Farm Bureau no I and I see every neighbor getting mad at another neighbor kicking this you know what I mean it's GNA be a nightmare we went was allowing was taking was allowing a small number of chickens without a rooster without a special permit because it used to be a full special permit to have six chickens in Coupe at least we loosened that I think five years ago or so I when I did the bed for 30 years ago they had a bylaw that you can only have X chickens on a 5,000 foot lot and Y chickens on a 10,000 foot lot and I said well we better get rid of that that's Antiquated and they said you're in trouble if you do because every Portuguese family wants to have a chicken for supper on on Sunday and it's still in the B off or the ordinance if you look at it I think but what you got now is You' got this you know if you look on page 12 13 in the existing zoning you got Farms Orchards nurseries Greenhouse Agriculture and that's I think the equivalent of my um C1 then we've got well you just you just say okay then youve got Farms Livestock on five or more Acres EX grp swine you can't do that if it's five or more Acres swine have a home right then You' got live uh less than 5 acres and less than 50 and then you got rabbits and poultry on 5 Acres or more but you got to allow that because it's five acres or more so you got all these breakouts by animals and and and they have like for personal use for for rabbits and like for poultry and rabbits but not for like a horse right yeah there are other personal uses but yeah i' like to define the agriculture a little bit more but my main things is more people should be capable or allowed to if they qualify to have livestock well then I think we ought to take a look at at least a couple of Board of Health regulations which I will send to you and I like having it sit in that AR Arena yeah but it's their job really all right so I what I tried to do here and C is capture 12 transitioning over to 13 in the existing news table because you you actually have one two three four five six entries all of them you know either depending upon the size of the parcel or the type of the animal or the number of it in in a particular in a particular species but I don't like getting into things like rabbits and adult hens M roosters gender discrimination confined cage 12 or under you need a micrometer to be the Building Commissioner you should uh I've had some interesting phone calls I'll leave at that yeah I can imagine them hiding chickens so they can only have less than 50 when you come well try I don't know what it's like to live next to a rooster roer yeah no I do know what it's like cuz I have a house in a warm place and there's plenty of roosters at 5:00 in the morning you should um you should try going to a house to make sure that the number of ducks or roosters or chickens um doesn't exceed the threshold in the bwar and try to keep track of which one you've already counted and which one you [Music] haven't chalk or spray paint one of I like board Health animal patrol all right I'm going to show you that way that was a hazing event I we apologize for that I I wasn't going to call you out on it Jim but I fraternity all right on to open space and Rec Recreation I think we've already covered some of this but um I I I like to break this up between indoor and outdoor and some things just get named because they're big and they require that kind of thing so Golf Course is an example or a health and recreational Club um so you got a 150 foot setback for commercial including tennis um I how does this this again I tried to capture what you have I'm I'm a little bit the um the part of the the open space thing is that we that defines the uses that are again allowed within our open space lands and as far as health or recreational club that would include something like a Gold's Gym yep um we already put that in our commercial Zone we have in our in in our residential primary use it says nonprofit membership owned health or recreational Club including country clubs serving the residents of North that's already defined as as a specific site like type and it's not in the open space neither one's in the open space okay is that I'm not sure if like I again like when we do like a a subdivision and they need a 20% open space requirement would that be that would fall in this table no that's a table of dimensional requirements that generally would go in the dimensional table no the table that like they're 20% open space they're allowed to use open space and recreational uses in as defined in our open space and recreational uses table whatever we put in our open space and recreational uses table is then part of the chart of things they get to do in their open space area I I don't do it that way I doew these uses as being more open air if you will and that they take a lot of space so recreational Day Camp um my former brother-in-law's family ran a day camp in Sharon you know they ran it for 50 years and it was plans and playgrounds and I think there was a sleepover there might have been a day camp the golf course is pretty much the same show I mean you need 150 acres to have a golf course it's all it's not all open space in some legal Des designation it's just open air in the sense that it's a big use sure but by adding help a recreational Club from the commercial Zone I can space does that not it doesn't negate the recreational Day Camp par but it it does add the ability for like a Gold Gym to use that space like it's like a commercial entity to to put their business on the open space Zone it it's it just seems like it belongs in the commercials Zone it's it's not a Zone it's these this is a heading of or a grouping of certain types of uses but the the zones are the are the next columns r80 r60 RC so I don't have a problem with classifying health or recreational Club more as a retail and service use which is f than a d open space or recreational use Steve it's it's not defining like you said in a subdivision when you approve a subdivision that has open space that that's not what this is for is that what maybe I misunderstood you but is that what you that allow you're thinking of it as well that open space is used for agriculture Recreation or or um education like it can be used for those means but would that be able to be administered by a commercial and no because this that's not a zoning District right like Mark just said so this is just a this is a I guess it's a it's a adjective for the uses in this table yeah it's of similar uses so that you can find them and easily compare them on the same page yeah so this isn't saying that if you approve a subdivision and there's there's 20 acres of open space as part of that subdivision approval that these uses can go in that open space right exactly that's not is saying because it in that case that open space part of that subject would be considered almost the same as an r80 it's a zoning District right so the I mean whichever different definition I guess well I guess if that open space were in the village commercial Zone then it could be approved by special permit that a commercial help like it's not the open space that that we're focused on here it's the use on the land of the health or recreational club like it's a a factory or anything else that is independently called out here so yeah you could have have a health and recreational Club in the VCC District but only if you meet the dimensional requirements for a lot in the in the VCC District they matter that doesn't matter at all about open space in the VCC District that's you know we could I could I could take off in D I could scratch off open space and just say recreational usage that's what we're talking about yeah because when when I read it I almost read it the way Steve did like it's open space but you can put a Gold's Gym that defeats you know doesn't make open space to means to me means no structure why am I just put indoor and outdoor recreational uses I think that's cleaner Mark and I can see whether Mis the misunderstanding is but the open space in this isn't isn't the zone or the land it's the use of the of what he's got on the table again I I for my my point of view of it all is that our open space Recreation table it is set for actual just open space and recreational activity and not for businesses essentially the way we've had it set up is that it's it's just pretty much outdoor recreation I we do have golf course there but it you know defined or not whether that's a commercial entity but I don't know if putting indoor and outdoor recreation in that table makes any sense as opposed to the table it's currently in which is just the commercial Zone if it's a commercial business it's there and aside from that we've already defined nonprofit uh entities that can exist within and we we we put that in our residential table your commercial uses [Music] go two two full pages with no attempt to discriminate or distinguish between a hotel Moto and a Artisan food and beverage facility so what I've tried to do is put food uses together recreational uses together motor vehicle uses together they're all commercial but I'm making this easier for the user to see in comparison on a single page M like uses that's the objective here right now I mean you you I think you've adequately and professionally listed possible commercial uses on pages 13 14 and I think it spills over on page 15 of the use table but my my goal is to whack it back a little bit so that a body art establishment isn't being compared to a hotel Fair I again with all due respect for you I don't appreciating what you're doing uh I I personally have made this like my pet project like the last two years and I've also made my own zoning chart too that I've tried presenting a couple times but um I did do a little bit of separations of the categories too like you like you said um but it it's just something that that stands out to me that the open space and Recreation kind of I'm not sure how I again like the idea of the Gold's Gym situation like like an extreme version of a recreation or health club using the open space it seems like the category is meant specifically for like passive Recreation a campground or like farming all right so I'm going to take that category and rename it indoor and outdoor and I'm going to take health or recreational club and I'm going to move it over to F retail and service uses because that's really more of what it's like or it's equally categorizable as one of those uses and we'll leave the other recreational like GF course smallscale day camps commercial facilities grouped together as recreational uses okay all right so I'm on could I just ask we have small scale indoor Recreation you used to have a definition for it and I noticed there was not one in your is that intentional no I didn't see it I mean let me let me take that back it may be in the existing definitions remember the the the file I gave you was only new definition right let me just look and see if small square is defined it is defined in our in our existing bylaw okay perfect do you know the page it's on um I'm online it's I got my book in front of me I'll tell you right now is it in 2.2 or is it some other section no it's two under definitions I have it in page 12.1 mine's not numbered I don't know how that is but so 2.2 yeah let's see establishment that provides Amusement entertainment or physical fitness that occurs indoors for a fee or admission charge may require membership in or cater to walk-in customers may also include food and beverage Service Such uses are not limited to arcades art dance exercise Studio bowling alleys drama voice instrument instructional Studio Health Club Fitness Center ice and roller skating rock climbing indoor hockey LaCrosse or soccer laser tag martial arts studio indoor swimming pool tennis handball badminton racketball golf simulation if we take that we've got to add pickle ball just to be uh complete why not go for that's a crazy that's a crazy salad though yeah do we need all those examples when I I'll take a look at I think we um I'm glad there's a definition we'll start [Music] there can I ask if there's any support for doing those in residential that special com it I'm thinking specifically of like voice or music lessons orce D something that's you know I think that would be an accessory it's it's a small scale Recreation would be the Principal use on the property so typically voice music have people coming over to a house where where the resident teaches them okay there a very traditional accessory is and if we wanted to be explicit we could add it to the uh the uh accessory uses are in JK so to me that that seems like it's a commercial use it's a accessory accessory inome occupation too right Mark someone may right may be able to to trigger it under an inhome occupation with no more than 25% of the existing FL space devoted to such use well they they may be able to but couldn't operate as a standard use it's not Standalone they live there for wait for for which which one are we talking about again well 're going back to Laura's question about teaching the home some okay well that that's covered under home occupation already is it for example so we're when I was growing up I took dance lesson they built a barn for all intents and purposes and that was the dance studio and it was separate from the h within the accesso sorry yeah there home occupation custom work in home or accessory building by Resident with no more than one person regularly employed I had a I had a case about four years ago three years ago with the judge Foster of the L Court involving a 1 million square foot grow facility in Charlton marijuana 860,000 square feet in the building were grow and a buck 40 was quote unquote accessory uses which consisted of manufacturing processing and um packaging their argument was if I grew tomatoes I could can them as an accessory use and I argued that those abuses were not listed in the table and there's a with th in construing a use table that if it's not listed you can't do it so I you know there were maybe 12 things you could do in the district as an accessory use but none of them were manufacturing or processing and judge Foster ruled that unlike principle uses which must be listed accessory uses are so numerous that they need not be Lo listed as long as they meet the definition of an accessory use which means a use customer associated with an incidental or subordinate to the principal use U on the same law and so he allowed it and I think he's right I I've taken that approach um to ex if you go back and look at the section three I I've given you um that's pretty much what it says and and teaching music out of your house is a classic accessory use going back a hundred years okay well we have we have a couple definitions here that are already in our books one one small scale indoor Recreation is in my mind clearly a commercial thing and it may be a home business but it is definitely a commercial thing we have Artisan manufacturing which is the label but that includes teaching of how to do that it it might be basket weaving it might whatever but that in our definition is a little bit weird it allows sort of like teach teaching essentially so we also have Artisan food and beverage which is small scale manufacturing of food and beverage like essentially making making products all three of those could be a home occupation or a standalone business on it by itself that I don't think they fall into an accessory table they may just be Standalone things and they could be incidental also as a home occupation if if we were going to do something separate maybe we would write home occupation um like other permitted use or like permitted commercial use but as a stand as a standalone they would have to be allowed in that zoning District Anar accessory to the primary dwelling is a different situation different story in our current bylaw that's not the case okay so are we trying to again I think the point is that it's it's not allowed in that District as a standalone but if you had uh if you were a home occupation that wanted to do like there's there's a bakery on Reservoir Street that's a home occupation currently they're not allowed to sell it out front somebody sit down at a picnic table how how do we get that I mean I don't think it's making small scale indoor Recreation or Artis food and beverage an accessory use it's it's about special permitting it not at all I mean I think what you got to do if you want it to be allowed both as a principal and accessory use you list it in both places that's all and if if somebody has a standalone small scale indoor recreation facility it's allowed in the district that are on the D category if you want to allow it as an accessory use you move it as well back to K or whatever that is and I don't disagree that some of these things Walk the Line uh but but clearly somebody bringing pupils into a home and teaching the music is an accessory use not a principle use so that' be that'd be an example of something that you would on the list I mean I I think judge Foster more oress gets you off the hook on K if you only listen things there's more that you can do that's his that's his answer from the bench we I read that before Mark too with with the zoning stuff in town and Town Council is even waiting a little bit that it's it's probably physically impossible for us to encapsulate every single possible use right inar Primary in our bylaw it's it's phys it's just a feed that I don't think we could ever accomplish is any is any qule your Town Council yeah yeah yes so Amy qule and I had a case a year and a half ago we did it on a Case stated meeting that we wrote the facts down for the judge that we didn't we didn't disagree about there's a Boxford guy in his 80s my client and he he was making in his garage 1 18 scale model locomotives off the blueprints of Famous Pacific locomotives that once tried the Earth he made every part he had the machinery to do that the metal came in FedEx packs he made no smoke no glare no emission no noise the neighbors he applied to put a building out back which would have allowed him to get his garage back the neighbors claimed that he was a machine shot I claimed that he had an interesting hobby am I supposed to list every hobby judge Foster came to the house with ay and I remember I remember he got out of his car as we entered the garage he said Mark can I take a picture of my wife's really interested in this case I said J judge have have at it and then my client and the judge went down the basement well and then Amy pointed out to me that there was a picture of a naked woman that the guy my client just Aus it in his garage I said oh that's his wife Amy let's move on and the judge took a year to rule that he was no different than Alexander Calder making giant metal statues in his garage um and so it doesn't you list every hobby right I don't even we do have that in our in our use table already as Home Craftsman shop except that there were always people going to stretch the boundaries of what that is I mean I can imagine people working in wood metal um I can imagine them painting you know large scale but at the end of the day to the judge he and the judge was right you know a hobby is a hobby is a hobby he wasn't selling any of this stuff and he's been building the second one right now W steale that's pretty big yeah I it's a big finished product that's 8 to 10 feet yeah okay wow you could ride on those he does there is it's like a a National Association of people making scale model locomotives and they all tracks that they have where you can set these things up it's never he doesn't make parts for other people it's not commercial right it's not even a home occupation because it's not occupied occupying him in the sense of a cash return yeah I'm ping you to get over to E I think it's going to get easier yellow is is stuff you don't have you have administrative professional the usual thing here is business or professional so I kept admin but just added business a medical or dental office or clinic it's important to keep those as a separate type of office because the typical office use is parked at one space per 200 square feet I'm sorry 250 square feet and a medical or dental office is always parked at a little higher rate usually 50 s 50 a difference of 50 square feet so uh 200 for a medical two 250 for a business office and that's what the apparent why when you go to your doctor's appointment and there's eight people ahead of you um and then Life Sciences seems to be something that you want to emphasize don't have a problem with that Banks and because life science manufacturing is so restrictive we wanted to make sure that there was a call out for yeah an office use in the same industry yeah I get it uh Banks computer programming I assume the same thing applies to message centers and Conference Centers I think you message center um it's a good question I don't know if you have a definition me what we have lots of definitions around electronic message center that means a digital billboard we have a whole section about that that's crazy does it need to be an office I thought that was a signage term too is that so what section is that um I got the end right chapter eight section 8.2 I have it on my my book is on page 41 I got to number my pages I guess on the bottom right hand cor at this my print out is yeah mine's bottom in the middle if if I can ask by dividing up the the table out of the commercial section does that now remove that from the restriction on the 10,000 sare foot special permit no um I'll put in each of the subsections if it's over 10,000 square F feet it's a special permit regardless of what the table says and that's that's the the de amus they have a an entry that says any of the use is Step forth above an E1 through 7 larger than what's yours 25,000 or 10,000 10,000 yeah so I don't think electronic message center needs to be here is it it's just what D saying right I think so yes yes got to be somewhere where it goes I don't know okay and [Music] in in the sign section this would be it's a definition of sign yeah but but with regard to the operation of one you would only be allowed to do it in VC vccc and I and not in the residence District so I'll just add that over to the sign section what don't you have in mind when you adopted a conference provision did a meeting Hall I think basically an auditorium free standing but was like part of a hotel there's a hotel down the road I don't know if it's in yourtown I think it's right on the line between you and yeah right over the line I speak to the building Commissioners there over here is it in yeah the old holiday yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the C in the base yeah a Convention Center an auditorium some sort of public gathering Hall yeah that type of thing why is that that shouldn't be an office use then should it I mean that's why I thought it just made have a General commercial table as opposed to dividing up they they like electronic messaging center restaurants Conference Center offices they they all are commercial entities and it the the commercial table might need to be rearranged but I think they all just fall within a commercial table only if you want to have body Ard and a hotel in the same table I think they do I mean I got tattoos myself and have St hotels me if I'm looking to go to if I'm looking to build a hotel on their National chains doing it they've got a w past the body my point what I'm hearing is we may need an other commercial uses table put anything that doesn't fit the and yeah and move on subject yeah there's a provision towards the end here it's just miscellaneous commercial use of Stu yeah so message center and Conference Center can go there if we don't have any if we don't mind all right I found a definition for Conference Center that I'll run past you here and add I don't think I'd seen it before um but what this is basically ref going to is a free standing building in which a facility used for conferences and seminars where accommodations for sleeping food prep and eating Recreation entertainment resource facilities and meeting rooms I don't know okay so it's that's slet basically oh okay yeah that's probably what based off of right in adbor is the lastet retreat I know yeah do you want the church but that's probably the where it's the uses from with accommodations for sleeping food print they've got it yeah but I mean is that what you want if this is part of the if this is part of a hotel like the one I speak at down the road I get it but like an unaffiliated VFW I guess with a lot of veterans sleeping I don't see it burning me to remove it if it's already on the books I think that's my well maybe we'll argue then over the definition maybe we'll take out sleeping but not food prep and eating because you got to feed the people at the conference center so I I'll put the definition into the new um definition and we can look at that one more time okay so I'm on retail and service uses [Music] um I've added personal and general service establishments I think I'm going to move over the fitness to hear um personal services nail salon barber shop General Services is more oriented towards things so it would be appliance repair upolstery things of that sort and their definitions that are added to the new definitions is there a difference trade service is that going to be like a plumber or Carpenter type of thing or yeah I think that I think you had better already um one of the things that I saw that now that we're on the retail and service C uh we had uh repair and service shops including Auto Repair that you removed and put into minor or light Auto auto repair or something like that yeah I think there's a motor vehicle repair right which would be H2 um so with with a general like a repair and service shop that includes Auto Repair in an enclosed garage I think is me to be for a repair and service shop that might do automotive upholstery or like a installation of a car stereo not necessarily mechanical Auto stuff but something that involves some sort of service to a car that's not engine related the way that somebody might upholster furniture or repair a grandfather clock or you know any service or repairs I think that's what was meant by that and the inclusion of the Cara was not meant to make it an automotive entity it's just that sometimes repairs have to happen in to or true a car if that makes sense um what are the general definitions here are they up front and P in the beginning 2 yeah so what does that say about Auto well again it's not I think that's the point it's not meant supposed it's not meant to be automotive repair in the sense as somebody's working on an engine and changing their oil that's already in a commercial or industrial use but a service shop might have somebody bring their car to their house to their garage so they can upholster the car to sew it back up like the seats RI I get that all I'm trying to figure out is where that definition comes from I don't think it's in the definitions it's it's not okay I don't want to take service and repair shops off the table if that makes sense Steve are you saying that's in the commercial table that yes right now we have service and repair shops including Auto Repair if that works in a done in a garage but it's not meant to be an auto repair facility necessarily unless they're just doing minor like again like a car stereo or oh I see okay so repairing service shops including Auto Repair is where I got that from so you're saying it's a more General repair and service sh yeah it says as long as there's no ter long-term outside storage of Rec cars including welding auto body repair soldering that might be incidental to the repair so it's for somebody to fix the car but it's not necessarily a garage like a service station as like their main use so doesn't the addition of F2 honor what this says this says repairing service shops including auto repair and then it goes on to talk about cars so I kind of figured that that was a car regulation that's why it's over there in motor vehicle I get it to the extent you want to do a postery it really doesn't have much to do with the car but would it wouldn't that be addressed under personal or general service establishment it's sort of a stretch in two ways if well in a way because like I guess if we're talking general service could also mean like does does that mean repair shops like how how far is a general service before it's a trade how far like if I fix your shoe is it a repair shop is it a general service and is that different from me fixing your Appliance if you bring a toaster to me am I a trade service now or a general service and then if I if I fix something can I sell it now I'm a retail establishment yeah they're regulated in the same way so it's at the end of the day it's not going to matter the service establishments that I put into the definitions were uh for General shop for lawnmower small appliance upholster furniture repair bicycle repair um printer blacksmith Builder Carpenter La mow Mason painter plumber roofer personal with be shop tanning beds dry cleaning print shop photography studio and the like and then trade Builder Carpenter electrician landscaper Mason painter paper hanger printer plumber roofer so I I I think you're right in the sense that this existing entry into the use table was intended to cover all repair and service and then it unduly focuses on CS that's what I think yes if it if it makes sense it almost feels like the general Services part should go with the Trade Services like a service and repair shop and other Trade Services kind of group together and then like like a a barber or hairdresser or something like that that sort of is a separate category than a plumber okay does there very grp does does that make sense at all I mean right now it's currently they're all three grouped together as one entity yeah I think it does make sense to keep you know a personal service establishment separate from the general you might ultimately regulate them differently and you've already got the line item set up to do that I mean I'm not essent I'm not against all three retail personal service general service And Trades all staying in one category together I I haven't actually really had a problem with that because they overlap so much a a a a service and repair shop might also set things is retail or again how the Spectrum blending into one or the other overlaps so much as long as we feel it makes sense I have no problem moving forward with it I would be I've lost the point to be honest I I'd rather not divide it up divide up how what are you saying is divided up here I I don't get the point Somebody explain it to me we we have retail service trade shop like we that's already one category we're being presented to divid it up into three and I don't I don't feel the need to divide that into three separate categories it doesn't hurt anything yeah I don't I don't think it's a negative clf yeah I kind of feel like ites I feel like the vend diagram what each one does overlaps so much that now it it's not clear which one is what they're all treated the same they're it doesn't matter because they're all the same they're all allowed the same thing it doesn't matter so we could change if something comes up in a year or two that fits one and not the other we might at that point say could to have separate line item listings and then we may change how they're treated but now they're not treated any different from each other so I I agree it doesn't matter you got to look at it from from a standpoint of of where where my position is at too Steve though like the more sometimes the more opportunities we have to define something even if it's as minute as what this is the the easier and the better it is for us and the opcin coming in I right I agree in theory that it's better to Define what each category is what I'm saying is the way it's being defined right now and what the categories are actually seem to overlap each other to a deg great where again if if you're like a shoe repair person do you have to apply separately as a retail establishment if one's permitted can you sell shoes but not repair shoes can you repair but not they both regulated the same unless we decide to change how we regulate them that that's I don't know I would I would leave it I don't think it hurts or I don't I don't think it hurts to leave it the way it is because it's not really it's I think it's fine if they were regulated differently then I could see a point but with them being regulated the same I think it's a mood point and so are we removing we're halfway through this document an hour and 45 minutes in let's keep going I'm merging trade and general service and keeping personal as a separate category we can take it up again next time okay fair enough all right J Restaurant uses I had a couple of things here that I didn't see and I had questions on so you have restaurants nightclubs food and beverages but do you allow fast food and I know drive-thru is a special per so fast food is a separate category of food usually comes you know readymade and it's delivered to you on a plastic plate and it's got litter issues to opposed to sit down restaurants I sometimes don't allow fast food in certain districts Dartmouth is a good example in the office industrial district they have requirement that you go sit down for food I thought I recently got a you experience for a Burger King there everybody thought it was dumb but nobody wanted to go to town meeting so they gave use variant um Brewery or winery that's a popular use these days do you want to allow it do you have one now if you have one now where is it just yeah maybe we should encourage breweries or wineries by advertising that they're allowed in certain districts so s fill in the blank kind of thing sorry go ahead Steve breweries and minies are currently covered under Artisan food and beverage but there's limited quantities oh if there's so do you want you want treeh house to come to Norton because I can arrange that I don't think you want to do this in a r80 r60 or R40 District Brewery Winery would be allowed where if I recall in the Mass General law about agriculture we're actually not allowed to not promote a brewery Winery on a farm yeah on a farm so the r80 district in particular is our main farming District it's has the most allowances I I think a brewery or Winery might require a special permit in those zones because we can't necessarily not allow it on a farm all right so do you want me to put special permit if on the farm or if it qualifies under Mass General law yeah for agriculture and what about a nonfarm brewery or Winery in your other four districts I'd be cool with it wherever else right now in the other four VC VCC C and commercial industrial it's just not allowed in any of the residential zones okay what about fast food i' be very cool with regulating that yeah it's important to break it out yeah right now it's just others it's under restaurants nightclubs and other places serving food or beverage yeah right same same as the other one not allowed in any residential Zone but allowed in the other Flo okay what if we put fast food as a special permit in the other floor keep the kids from eating junk yeah because you're we also regulate drive-throughs through special permit so most fast food places you're going to have a drive-thru that's true okay I think that's good and we can flag both of those as topics of discussion when we do a public Outreach yeah absolutely it's a good idea to motor vehicle uh light Services gasoline the definition of light Services what you expect to see today it's a combo where are you I'm on H oh H thank you so combos are Donuts convenience and gas and this is you know industry favorite so but they don't usually do mechanical repair even they don't they don't even do oil changes these days so that's U like a big retail facility that just happens to have pumps in the front and then I think the next entry for two would be auto body repair paint sateren welding shop which is in the existing table and that's just I I think I put a little red no there because there's no in the table there if I remember correctly do you combine those two in the use chart no forget about the one on motor vehicle repair that it's done in an unenclosed building I mean I could put under auto body repair all that stuff about on enclosed buildings so I would move that down to the auto body repair paint soldering or welding sha and it would it would just say my my point is that when I was doing oh I had a it did say no in the commercial D so I'm just just take the red out that's all oh I was calling the attention to the difference between 2 a in 2 B that's all so just consider those two ends to be ends the red ones and then s or U newer used motor vehicles driveth through car washing commercial parking facilities commercial parking commercial parking is something that charges your money to park but it's not like the like not the parking lot for the furniture store okay can you get a definition I'm afraid of uh um somebody coming in and saying well an Amazon van lot qualifies as commercial parking uh let me just go to the definitions somebody looking the existing I'll go to my new ones not new one it any existing we don't have one okay so come social parking lot is a parking lot in which there's a pay to park and it's not something generally associated with a um a business okay so you see for example in Walpole there are commercial parking lots where commuters Park to go to Boston on the train and they pay for a sticker they buy stickers by the month and you know it goes like that this also cover something like the lot for a bunch of Amazon checks yeah that's what I would just asked about that's why I wanted to put a definition in this is that they can't say that an Amazon van lot is a commercial parking facility I know what you want yeah so I add a definition for commercial parking lot that addresses the issue May before uh limit it to um personal use vehicle okay miscellaneous um I when I deal with adult entertainment I generally treat all subspecies of adult entertainment equally so adult um um adult um bookstores adult um entertainment cabes it's all the same and you only allow them in one District which is industrial um the the key to adult establishments is that you're free to regulate them but you can't regulate the speech itself I'll show you how to get around that in the next effort or maybe the one after that that we that we cover but most importantly you have to provide an adequate opportunity for the exercise of the speech so in a town like there not been much litigation on this but in a place like ensboro there was a series of cases and I think they zoned some something like less than 1% of the Town it was 10 yots in a 10,000 square acre town and the court said that that was an adequate opportunity for the exercise of the speech in Medford on the other hand more than 1% a city block was zoned and they said that was insufficient so that's something that the courts look at if it's if there's a challenge I doubt there will be but I'm just pointing out that you should be looking at the availability of these establishments not just the regulations because Court's probably going to do both that works I like having all under one that way we'll have to judge what's the accessory use in this facility yeah and body no body art is treated the same way it's speech to both the artist and the bearer so you have to allow again an equal opportunity for the speech and I see you're sticking everything in your Industrial District which is a very common trick just just to make minuscule is there anybody else that would be in favor or not opposed to moving body establishment also to the commercial District yes and I think we kind of have to um because body art I I did an email to Mark back a little while ago um which states that bodyat covers a lot of territory right now it ad to include restorative and cosmetic micr segmentation which is permanent makeup um they AR Allowed by special permit in industrial but I know of at least one cosmetic micro pigmentation establishment that is not an industrial currently um so my proposal at the time was given kind of the increase in both the prevalence and of tattoos and piercings in general and the broadening of the industry specifically into more cosmetic and restorative um applications I I think we need to consider um potentially expanding will or allowing it is commercial the most likely candidate for that yeah what what about and and look at other communities right like the the VCC Zone in this town Paul's Vision when he was here was a downtown like Main Street in fth what about in a VC or a VCC Zone drive through Bridgewater Center there's a tattoo in a bodypiercing place right in the center of town across from the green um you know within 50 feet of each other for it even I could also say some people do it as a home occupation also we're not tattooing and piercing of the home occupation I think regulate that yeah I think they're LIC yeah there's licenses required by and Board of Health regulates that okay so just to have a phun workshop meeting what if we changed the last four columns to VA yeah then you regulate to a certain extent right but it's still yeah an option for certain people it opens up opportunities yeah and another one for public Outreach yeah this is so the rest of these are just things that didn't have a home there's four three at the end that talk about marijuana number three yeah why is number three yes in r80 but no in r60 and R40 and BCC current J yeah I remember that that came up a few years back I think that's currently what we have and it I mean it makes kind of makes sense because R8 is going to be your biggest lot size okay um yeah so it is it's so right now it's allowed by right in r80 yeah and in commercial zoning districts it's special permit in Village commercial and Industrial and no and the other three okay that's again a kennel just uh in itself is uh livestock it is essentially a a a farm that we've decided dogs are a different thing and also Veterinary Hospital is very much needed in a farming area the the r80 is supposed to be our farming District I just wanted to make sure that wasn't a typo or it was it was accurate sure that's how we currently have it but that like Mark said earlier too we can look at the Board of Health RS and maybe put some weight into those before you make a decision on that stuff yep um I I I look with trepidation to nine and 10 have you had recent fights on Telecommunications Act issues yeah [Music] so what what what are the fights uh boy this was a uh residence that was on a commercial or industrial industrial residents as of right and they applicant wanted to put a tower right in back of it but so would the residents would have been within the fall zone it was quite mixed up I'm not sure I can adequately remember or explain it I don't even remember I think they withdrew the application because we're getting so cranky you're accurate thanks and what is your general um so you allow Wireless facilities on an existing structure like a church steeple or a chimney yeah and then with regard to wireless facilities otherwise you're requiring you're you're basically saying on a monopole is okay are there gaps in coverage that result yes it's been presented to us that there are gaps and also that emergency services tend to piggyback on WCF so that it's in the town's interest to you know permit as many of them as we can right right now the children at the newly constructed concrete car High School cannot call their parents to tell them to come pick them up because the nurse is sending them home oh I I get gaps in coverage it's astounding that we live with 5G communication devices that operate like it's dial up oper only for a couple of miles from a tower yeah yeah they were looking at it too with this particular case with Public Safety right to your point mark what God forbid there was a mass mass event at that school the kids can't contact anybody else at the school because they don't have service yeah right that that's the big concern well I mean I guess I'm G leave it the way it is but just point out that a gap in coverage has been accorded by the federal courts as a Prohibition unlawfully in contravention of the statute so right also I would also say if they a stock any stock regulations about big Wireless towers that might be good to compare with our existing ones okay the existing rules that we have around the fall zone and different things are uh they're not worded in an effective way um the way that we interpreted one that we looked at recently was that we had to uh draw the fall zone like the shed that was going to be next to the tower was going to pick up and fall itself 200 ft to the left mhm um because it was the definition of the structure captured the shed which meant that the fall zone went from the furthest edge of the shed and based on the total height so it was uh yes the shed is not going to fall 200 feet sorry to interrupt um unintentional uh there's also a question because the word monopole is in the bylaw is that the only type of tower that we are allowing now and I don't remember but wasn't that part of it Jim yeah it was yes it was sorry I was on as opposed to lattice Towers right thank you right let me let me jump to the other one kind of you know because it's getting late that caught my eye was the last thing industrial uses large scale ground Mod Solar solar is a we were advised we looked at that last year in terms of updating it um it was recently changed to special permit everywhere we basically the advice from Town Council was if you're not sure what you want to do with it don't give the Attorney General anything new to look at so it say to be across the board I think so maybe no in some areas but up when did Tom take that up the last time it's been taken up like four times my b s shows in October 22 Tim that it was a no everywhere except for industrial okay I may have missed I may missed that might be correct no that's probably correct buted Town Council not to if you don't get the Attorney General anything new to look at they can't tell you that you're uh violating Tracer Lane that's an old trick we spent some time when works though on that whole ball law and and it just like Tim said it got kind of Mucky so you know the latest controversy in the commonw right the there's a case from walam it didn't even involve the facility in the facility was in the neighboring town but they had to use walam roads to get there and um long story short is that it was only allowed in walam in the industrial district which was less than 2% of walam and the Supreme Judicial Court said that's a violation of chapter 48 Section 3 which basically judge Piper of the loan Court chief judge has said enjoys the same protection as churches schools and Child Care Facility which would mean you can't say no to it in any District wow that's but that's the land Court position right now and I I I just recently redid Berkeley zoning while we're going through this nobody knows I remember going to a a meeting of the abstract club which is like a hundred property lawyers and the somebody spoke on the uh the walum case and I raised my hand and said what am I supposed to tell town meeting tonight what's fair and legal for a municipality to do the example is Extreme 2% is not enough okay well duh anybody could figure that out but what is enough is it 50% is it no in some districts in special prmit in other districts but the possibilities are 50% can I say no in any district there are no answers to these questions and we're still waiting for the next shoe to drop so I like the advice don't touch it if you don't want to show it to the attorney general I kind of wish I had done that in one small town where I just wrote the Bible in Berkeley I said let's put it everywhere on site plan approval every District we I have four districts and that pass town meeting and I'm sure that would pass um the court a court review even as even the land court so this is just something we're going to have to understand that we're waiting for answers and it may come while we're doing this and it may not sorry I don't want to throw this up any further but I I thought I found a typo but I'm checking our new table and it's the same way um going back to miscellaneous commercial use number 12 marijuana establishment um we've got a marijuana overlay and it is in Village commercial so I'm not sure why it's not in there as special permit and it's in Village commercial by special permit yeah I can show you the I just pulled up the zoning map just to make sure because I'm fairly certain we had Village commercial that allowed marijuana yeah but if you look at the used table I know our current Table I I also think is wrong okay has a know there yeah so yeah and so this is an overlay District right it is usually you don't put overlay District stuff in the use table so this this will probably come out and we'll just leave it to the regulations of the overlay okay so marijuana will come out entirely well they'll be a section of Ola districts all grouped together so flood plane Water Resource marijuana whatever else you got a lot of people do wireless is an overlay too okay but it will come out of the use table yes and and I'll correct it in the uh in the if we're going to do a table Yeah within the overlay District language I'll move it over there and fix it okay San I'll send you in email the that we passed at town meeting but I I think our bylaw current bylaw use tables wrong yeah definitely says no all right so accessory uses just quickly um couple of things I added here that you didn't have adult daycare um sort of a there there are people who have out of their home dayare for adults these are people that are recovering from surgery or an accident or people that are entering into early stages of memory loss their their children work for the most part these are seniors and they get dropped off in the morning and picked up in the afternoon I represented a woman in Canton um who was a retiring nurse from the local hospital room this was something she wanted to do I I I argu that it was gold um protected and judge kilborne former Chief judge of the of the land cour said it was not uh because it didn't have a curriculum and I got so pissed off I put it in everybody's B ever since so here you [Music] are um he said it was a warehouse and I said what well anyway Family Daycare or family child care home large and small I've already explained my default is to put it in small style that's six kids including kids who live there is to just say yes and if it's large it's 10 kids including kids who live there and that's special permit I mean I'm I'm cranky enough to if I wake up next door to a new neighbor and they're going to run a child care home out of the out of their property and on a 25,000 foot lot and I've got 10 kids running around in my backyard I want a special permit heing place other than that this is pretty much what you have already and then that's um nine is a in the statute it's a a provision that allows mad scientists to conduct uh activities out of their home by special permit there is a a fascinating case from the town of Kingston in which a gentleman is this is a true St he's making um he's researching the properties of mollusks for use as an adhesive in outer space seriously and he's also got to raise this house because he's in a FEMA flood zone his son's down under the house with a bobcat and he hits a pillar and all the whole town thinks he's cling rats uh when the house pillar is hit the kid gets hurt and the dad rushes him to the hospital building inspector goes to the house bulldozes it within 45 minutes uh the four four people somebody from the from the yard comes with a town own you know tractor bulldozer something and I have a picture of it it sticks 45 minutes later the guy comes home he loses all of his experiments and he sues the town and he's awarded brace yourself $4 [Music] million wow yeah such a powerful little bit of statutory adventure and then I put a couple of things in the back for common driveway digital electronic billboard I think we probably already have that under electronic messaging uh digital electronic billboard and electronic messaging board are are separately defined yeah all right so the definitions you know I'll I'll let you look at those if you see anything you want to flag let me know we'll cover that at the beginning of the next meeting and um next meeting calendar I got to get my calendar so the next meeting I think I'm going to cover nonresidential um changes to the byw or non-residential issues and I I think I remember telling you that I was going to move your nicely done criteria for site plan approval to a section that will be labeled performance standards I think they really are performance standards so I'm going to show you some uh revisions to parking uh signage performance standards which will include Landscaping noise lighting um traffic uh utility connections things things of that sort that's probably the emphasis on non-residential and then when we get to non-resident to residential Al I I've kept a list of the things that I promised you to put in the bank like flexible development animal regulations and things of that sort we'll cover that if we have time next time what um what's your full me or full meeting schedule here with regard to town meeting I don't want to interfere with that town meeting I think for spring is mid May this year okay May 13th the 7 have it in front of me but Laur you might be right so can we squeeze in something maybe the week [Music] of the 8th of April or the 22nd of April I'm I'm going for a few days the week of the 15th yeah at the school vac week that works fine for me is that what is school vacation week is it the Patriots Day week my C doesn't say Patriots Day for the first te the mid teen the low teens we yeah okay yeah I only would have Tuesday that week if we could do Tuesday the 16th that would work for me but your kids are I was gonna say no yeah 10 yeah you're out of 10 okay so how about um about the 24th or the 25th one of our CDA members can't do Wednesdays [Music] generally second Wednesday second Wednesdays and then at five you would have to do them later in the evening on Wednesdays thank you so I I could do Monday I have a doctor's well that's just a phone call I could do Monday the 22nd or Thursday the 25th I'm more inclined to the 25th just to get a break between yeah yeah see okay you want to do it five or you want to do it at six or seven 5 six seven you tell me six is better for me but I'm till3 so whatever works for you guys that can be available on Thursdays okay Thursday the 25th of April at 6m you're in my book it's a date all right then I'll send you the next material within the next 10 days or so and if you'll be kind enough to distribute it we'll go from there thanks there's a lot of work to go through the use table but I think we made a good crack at it and um I'm glad we did thank you before we go further can I ask something real quick before everybody gets off I know it's late um I have a list of like 10 things I want to add to the uses table can we go over those at the beginning of the next meeting why don't you circulate them in Advan stage that everybody has a chance to look at them awesome thank you I've been sending stuff to Brian and asking for his courtesy and circulating it so I recommend the same awesome thank [Music] you mov second all in favor you very much