welcome everybody to the Norton planning board's meeting of Tuesday May the 21st 2024 um again this is a hybrid public meeting so members of the public and members of the board are welcome to join in person or remotely in person we are at the dorton media center this evening uh those joining on Via video there is a zoom link available in the meeting agenda uh or if you choose to dial in by phone the zoom ID 6389 29106 which is same one has been for about 4 years so I've memorized it at this point uh the meeting will also be available on Norton cable access uh so that out of the way um and just an an additional note um if anybody would like to share comments with the board ahead of the meeting they can please email them to Brian carmichel Town staff and they can be shared with the board and read into the record in advance if you are not able to attend so with that of the way I will call the meeting to order tonight and I will start for first off apologizing that we set this meeting before the NBA sent the Eastern Conference Finals so sorry um diving into planning board business and policies um Laura I know that you had one thing that you just wanted to discuss in general in terms of um organization of Dropbox and open go correct yes um I had noticed there some discrepancies between the documents that were in open gov versus Dropbox um and I had just asked if we can ensure that we have all documents in both locations if we're going to continue to use both and that if we could gr like documents within a project um so that we can easily ascertain how many versions there are and what the latest version is um just to make volunteers lives a little easier and Paul and said he would work on that yeah my apologies that we're I'm still getting caught up but that's a priority this week to get that all aligned and as we get more used to the open go platform if there are quirks where things do not work as we want them to uh or there's a decision about how we want to organize things we can uh as long as we pick a lane and we stick to it we should be fine as long as we uh get some consistency so even you had mentioned file naming that would be great if we could just be consistent with the what the document is and the date it was created that's all I need especially if the documents coming from the applicant it's kind of hard sometimes but unless we're going to rename every file I don't want to see first floor scanner please there's a lot of those well there's that but then you get engineering documents with their names and we just need to we need to make make sure we're on top of it to put the date and site plan special permit application something like that they can't separate Zing board yeah you just click the drop down to but it's Zing plan oh it's by Department we're combined okay I think I just scan to the address and ignore all the other things yeah no it's just yeah we'll get used to it we'll figure out how we want to work it it best as we go forward so since we're talking about logistics there was something weird that I saw I I think it's crane it's in there special permit 4 and special permit six yes right there there was um we uh they had filed choice I think it's still just confusion how we're setting it up but there are two special permits for it so they one was for the common driveway the other is for they did a separate they don't need to but yeah we can yeah we can go into that when we get to the project got okay so we thought out of the way I don't think we have anything else for planning board business actually um yes so this is what we need to go vote on now Brian or is that se just the having Mike sign off for all and that's something that we need to vote for yes yes okay um so U we don't have any minutes or bills at this time so item D on the agenda exping vote for the department head s um so even though last meeting we voted to appoint myself as the designated sign warrants and payroll and Laura as the alternate we also need to vote to authorize the town manager to sign those time sheets on our behalf so Mo okay we have a motion in a second I any further discussion okay I now we'll now go through the roll here now we'll go Eric yes Laura yes Alan yes Jim yes thank you and I will vote Yes uh so I do have a paper here that I will pass around here for us to sign um do we need to have we should have Quorum in the room to get that done to make it official for for Mike to get everything done so perfect so with that out of the way we'll dive into the public hearing section of our agenda we have three projects that are up for discussion this evening uh the first one is a request for a site plan modification sdn-1 this is 18 Country Club Way uh so I'm not sure if we have somebody from that applicant either here in person or here joining us remotely hi I'm D small I'm the owner okay nice to have you thank you okay um so would you just like to um just give a brief introduction of um of the project so we can go through it and address any questions that the board may have for you yes and so we are seeking to um use our existing deck space um in the back of our home to add a sun room Edition on um partial of the space and then use the other half as um open deck space and then enclos the bottom as a shed okay um and Paul turn to you this is the reason that this is coming to us as a site plan modification is because things that were on the original site plan are involved is that correct yes Brian can I uh no just stop share stop sharing and I'll just share uh that so correct this there was a a definitive plan that was approved back in 1996 for the Norton Country Club you can see that right on your screen here where it's highlighted that is a uh a safety buffer setback line that was adopted as part of the the definitive plan and as Miss small said that they're seeking a a very small encroachment onto that and so she had been working working with our Building Commissioner who had been in touch with Town Council who said there should be a modification I would say this is a minor modification to this plan uh in order to accommodate uh her request um so in general in terms of process the board would need to make a motion that we see this as a minor modification to the plan a and then B that we would move forward with evaluating on its merits correct correct cor okay motion um and Paul did you have any other recommendations after talking with the building commissioner or anything like that about the project itself or no we we didn't have any issues with it okay um and uh this also did and definitely correct me if I'm wrong but you last night you've received approval an order of U conditions from the Conservation Commission correct yes I did receive that today from Miss hup okay okay so Rob sorry I cut you off there when you had made your initial motion is your motion to view this as a minor modification to the site plan yes okay is there a second for that motion second okay we have a motion and a second is there any further discussion from the board prior to voting on whether to view this as a minor modification to the site plan okay I will go through the role here Rob I will start with you Eric yes Laura yes Ellen yes Jim yes okay and I will vote Yes so the board has deemed it a minor modification um do we have any additional questions for the applicant in terms of what they're looking to do or are we prepared to move forward with a motion to uh approve the modification or would it be approve or endorse Paul in terms of this mechanics is an approval it's an approval need a motion I just like to make sure that the applicant is aware that because the planning board is approving the modification the town does not assume any liability should there be any damage to person or property as a result of the encroachment of the safety perform okay yes thank you I understand thank you thank you so Rob were you were you making the motion to approve in the in the affirmative you need that motion yes um Second and would you would that be with any standard conditions basically nothing special nothing special okay so we have a motion to approve with standard conditions second and we have a second is there any further discussion to approve standard conditions okay I have a question yes the subdivision modification does it have to be filed with the registry of deeds as well as the um order of conditions from the um Conservation Commission or No Yes Stephanie do want to once we issue the decision which should be later this week or early next week you would want to file you have to wait 20 days but then um we'll have the instructions in there but you'll need to record that okay CU I was going to file the um conservation um order of condition so I'll just wait and file them together okay so we have a motion and we have a second so any further discussion okay hearing none Rob hi Eric yes Laura yes Alan yes Jim yes and I will vote Yes as well so the motion to approve is completed um uh Daphney thank you very much thank you everyone I apologize you got caught in uh B plan circles from the 9s so uh that's okay at least now everything is squared away that's the idea okay the next item on our agenda is a site plan review sp-2 and special permit sp-3 this is for 360 South Worcester Street and before you get into your presentation I do want to just give a couple of board members a chance to speak here I need to recuse myself cuz I'm in a Butters okay thank you rob same here okay um I can I just a quick intro on this sure okay it'll just be one minute thank you so just to just to note we do have two board members who are accusing themselves from this discussion uh so we have four board members present uh in person and remotely and we do have one board member who unfortunately is sick this evening um Paul if you want to get a quick introduction sure um just make sure that's so uh at 360 southwester this is still Country Club yeah there we go uh I'm just trying to give the context of this this is off of southwester and uh as you can see this property lies just to the north of southwester street across the street is a is a residential area um this is um immediately adjacent to Thermo King and Home Market Foods is just past that uh I also want to just point out one you know one of the challenges in this area is as you can see uh I'm showing the zoning map uh this this area the whole stretch along the north side of southwester is zoned industrial on the other side is residential this has been an issue for some years with an adjacent property um just want to make sure that's clear but also that this use that they're proposing which is essentially a warehouse isn't allowed by right use here they are seeking they need a special permit because of the size of the project it's over 10,000 square ft 25 parking spaces and they triggered a spe site plan as well because they're over uh 2500 square ft then just finally this is a an overall uh rendering of not a rendering but a layout of of their proposal you'll notice and and Michael can will go into more detail but you can see there's an extensive amount of wetlands due to the waiting River that's up to the north of them but um working uh within the Upland areas um they've been to Conservation Commission you can explain but that happened there so but in in summ the use itself in an industrial Zone isn't as ofate use but the special permit is tied to the size of the building and the number of parking spaces correct okay um and as a special permit application it does need a super majority of the board which is five members regardless of whether how many are accused so to get the special permit they would need all five members available to vote and vote in the affirmative correct so um even though we do have one board member who is not here this evening they would be able to uh review the meeting recording and fill out a Mullen form so they would be permitted to vote at this point uh as long as they are able to um follow up with that fill in the Mullen paperwork uh and not miss a second meeting related to this application so um with all of that out of the way I will turn it over to um the applicant to make their initial introduction I know we do have a number of people here who are looking to speak for members of the public um so in terms of order of operations what I'm looking to do is all the a little bit Moree can't hear you sorry I'll try and project more for you there's some seats here if you want to come down that's okay my kids are used to me projecting so I'll just have to get back in that habit you're welcome to have my chair down here don't mine I'm temporary s okay so what we'll look to do in terms of order of operations here is I'll ask the applicant to present to give their overview the board will ask questions um after that point if we don't have any additional questions I'll ask them to seed the podium and anybody would like to come up and make a statement please can um if you emailed your your notes to town staff already we have been we they have been loaded in our folders we've read them we received at least two today I believe um so if you've already submitted it we can definitely confirm that we've got it that we've read it um and we'll move forward from there okay so with that please go ahead thank you so good evening everyone my name is Michael Tor from civil environmental Consultants on behalf of the applicant Patriot relocation Services as you mentioned we're here talking about 360 self worsters street so quick overview of the project as Paul mentioned it's a approximately just over 35,000 squ foot classifies Warehouse use the applicant is a relocation moving company so it's not a traditional Warehouse us it's the applicant's intending moving trucks furniture comes in he helps homeowners businesses whatever move equipment from one property to another sometimes they store it at this location temporarily so quick overview um overview of the existing conditions of the site keep on the same graphic as Paul mentioned this on South W Street on the North side immediately to the east is the Thermo King truck repair shop as well as the Home Market Foods Distribution just off to the screen to the east the site's covered with a large number of wetlands the wetlands have been we've submitted to conservation conservation has reviewed and review the project and we actually received an order conditions last night on the project so the site as exists currently is predominantly a completely wooded site so flipping through the project so just going through from an erosion control standpoint of the project we are pro providing primier erosion controls on the site so standard silt sock silt fence and all the downg gradient slopes will have construction entrances on sell Worcester Street anywhere we'll have vehicle access coming in as well as we'll be following the EPA Nal Swip ahead of time on the project and just for the everybody else in the room the Swip stands for storm War pollution prevention plan thank you so a second so as previously mentioned the building is 35,200 squ Ft predominantly of warehouse space there is a small ancillary aboutt 1,000 ft office space sub within the building as proposed we have 37 passenger parking car spaces so that this is exceeds the parking requirements based off the zoning bylaw the reason for that is the applicant moving companies so he has all his moving trucks Each truck has two to three operators on the truck he anticipates they'll have between 30 and 40 users so those users aren't at the building all day long they're G most of the day in the building during the daytime hours it's handful of people maybe 5 10 people at most so on the east side of the building is the more industrial side of the building there's five low loading docks as well as 11 parking spaces for larger Vehicles these are not meant for storage of trailers or shipping TS it's more meant for trucks for the moving company that will be parking overnight hours so there's not going to be any outdoor storage on this site every any storage that will be occurring will be happening inside the building uh as was noticed around the perimet of site there's a 20 foot 24t wide drive a that goes 360 around the building this was actually a request by the fire department for 360 access to the building on all sides um we did provide a trip generation I believe got shared with you guys today I will confess that I have not read yet so that's all right so the highlight of it the weekday 24-hour we did follow it traffic code for warehouse which is much more conservative than the use we're proposing generates about 94 total trips throughout the day so 47 entering 47 leaving the peak when you look at the hours of operation of the site they work normal business hours so people arrive in the morning between 7 8: a.m. so you have the employees showing up they come in they hop in a truck they leave at the end of the day between 3 and 5:00 the trucks will come back they'll Park in the spaces they may unload if they need to overnight and then all the employees go home so really your peak hours are first thing in the morning when the employees are arriving and the trucks are leaving and in the evening afternoon hours Yin normally he his current business is over in Foxboro they shut down about 5:00 occasionally traffic does happen and a Truck comes back around 6:00 but they get in as soon as they can they all go home and the facility essentially shuts down from a grading and drainage perspective as I previously mentioned this was before conservation conservation did review it they also sign out to a peer review new engineer pgb engineering they reviewed this for compliance with Norton as well as the mass stormw War standards they voted last night to actually issue the order conditions on this project so we're not adversely impacting any of the neighbors or onto the street we're following the same existing drainage patterns on site we are treating the 1in water quality volume as well the recharge we're exceeding the requirement for this project by over three times the amount P BR is not always the easiest peer reviewer so uh he catches everything yes from a utility perspective this site will be on septic there's not sewer in the area is a small septic we have not yet filed with Board of Health but we will be Board of Health was on site when we conducted perk tests and test pits as well as the conservation agent it's all sandy materials on site well draining less than 2in Park rate so it's a very fast draining very promising for septic system materials on site the water has been designed and through the site plan review process the water department and the fire department has reviewed it we currently have a loop that goes 360 around the building with two connections out on South Worcester Street um we've added additional fire hydrants at the request of the fire department where those locations May modify based off final architecturals which the fire department is accepted and then electric Telecom gas will coordinate with the local utility providers in the MP once final architecturals are decided this building the office space is intended for heat and AC use where the overall Warehouse is knock and receive AC just General Heating keep the space operating so there's not long-term AC chillers or refrigerant running any of those units most likely will be located on the roof of the building from a landscaping perspective we do provide a very robust landscaping around the project we provide a number of species along the street Spruce Maple Oak Evergreen to provide really a dense screening kind of separating this from the residential to screen the project as much as possible as Paul previous mentioned we're asking for a waiver on the driveway width so zoning bylaw requires a 50ft driveway for industrial property on the east side of the building which is the industrial side we do have that 50-ft driveway with we're on the West Side that's we currently proposing a 24t basically commercial driveway entrance that entrance is solely intended for the passenger cars and fire truck access essentially which we did run vehicle tracking through the site fire truck has no you know no limitations on access and Paul the fire department checked checked the looked at this yes they' they've they've signed off but again they'll look at things again once the building you know if this is issued building permit so they could could change locations of hydrants and so forth but in terms of access and everything else that yeah they were they were satisfied with it thank you and then additionally we did run a photometrics analysis on those site Mo the lighting is split between mostly building Mountain features as well as some fixtures on light poles all the all the lighting has been designed to be dark sky compliant as well as zero Lo inside the property line so we do have shielding on the lights to make sure we're not light bleeding outside the property so we are well lit inside for Access purposes but we're not shedding that light out into the road so in in in layman's terms the spotlights have a like a panel go around it basically means the light goes down but it doesn't go out correct that's the idea correct so o overall as I previously mentioned we are requesting the special parmit the would like to have the 35,000 ft building it's as I previously mentioned it's residential essentially commodity IDs mostly that they're moving also business equipment it's not this isn't a distribution center this isn't a warehouse this is stuff will come in occasionally stuff will come off the truck lots of times it comes on in on a truck truck Parks overnight and it's back out the next day this is not intended as any sort distribution facility it's a simply stuff comes in stuff comes out so with that take any questions um you mentioned us staying on the truck is there kind of a for lack of a ter kind of a pod aspect of this as well with metal containers and things like that or not generally or not generally if there's if there's shipping containers they come in on a trailer they stay on the trailer they never leave the trailer comes in on the truck it leaves on that same truck it never stays on site it's not going to be stored there um and are any of these units generally refrigerated storage is it all ambient temperature so not any refrigerated facility okay um and I don't want to speak for some of the people here in the audience but I think that you have um some residents who are frustrated dealing with one of your potential neighbors so there are significant concerns in the area around noise because it does border a residential area uh you mentioned hours of operation um are you amendable to hours of operation being included in the permit yes can we consider that absolutely and with something saying hours of operations being between you had said 8 to six I was going to say seven to seven to add an hour at each end of that so that would be something that you would be a to yep so there'd be no overnight activity and no overnight Refrigeration running yeah to speak to those points okay um so other members of the board have additional questions for the applicant at this point is this an expansion of patriot or is this a relocation from Foxboro he's planning to relocate to norin Foxboro um I think you had answered the question in terms of residential um on-site storage um what per of the business is moving and 1% is storage within that warehouse the business is fully solely focused on moving people okay 32,000 ft so there's only 1,000 ft of office space the rest is warehouse space yeah in the building you have some space obviously for loading and navigating throughout so there is he hasn't quite drawn up final architecturals how much space will be allocated purely for storage but their their business is moving it's not storing equipment there they'll help a customer say if you have a residential you're trying to move but you're not moving to your new house for a week yes they'll hold your equipment for that's what I'm asking so how much is you're moving them from one location to the next in a single day and how much are you storing their belongings overnight I don't have those I don't have those numbers right now but I get those back to you okay um to Tim's Point um I I can see where you're currently located you're off of Route One you're in a commercial and Industrial you have no residential abutters whatsoever um I still would like um ask the town planner to make a call over to Foxboro to make sure there were no complaints with regards to the business in Foxboro um I'm not sure you appreciate where you have chosen to relocate to um in the respect of there is constant complaints of noise speeding and the amount of trucks on that road um so I have some concerns about adding to that um as it is is right now um I'd like to know what Machinery is going to be used on site and will it be inside only from the loading docks or will there be forklifts and that type of pallet movers no the for if there are Fork Cliffs with the operation 90% of the time all those Fork clifts are contained inside the building it's very rare that they're offloading outside of the building okay um uh we have 11 parking spaces so 11 trucks we we can assume 11 to 16 in case Park trucks park at the long dog overnight okay um I am concerned also about the trip generation I given the location and the traffic on that street I would be very interested to see what impact on the level of service this business yeah I know we just got the traffic report yeah it's not even a TR hours AG it's literally just estimates trip Generations there's no it's says there's no negligible you've read it more than me so yeah um but there's no demonstration to even calculate what the impact is on level of service for the area there's no taking into account other businesses schools background traffic yeah and we can prepare what the board to let you see that yeah I'm not sure if the traffic consultant already did that and was included in the report or um but in terms of it's very bent no okay um so the are you if I me yeah car scy uh project manager was C as well uh just part of the team here I can speak a little bit to the traffic study and the trip generation so the the total it was 94 trips for the day uh the peak hour trips are somewhere around 20 20 truck trips uh you know I think there was about seven leaving 14 cars entering uh in the morning and at the end of the day you've got those seven trucks coming back and the 14 cars leaving at the end of the day from a level of service standpoint I I can't imagine that would have any material impact on any of the intersections that would be used I think one thing that we didn't mention was that as part of the project we are uh happy to Route the traffic uh turning left out of the development so it heads uh East uh leaving this side so I think that was a consideration we did meet with uh various members of the town uh I think a little bit more than a year ago where some of the concerns were raised and incorporated into the project design so we are happy to restrict the torning movements out of the site louder sure so yeah sorry I'm kind of speaking in this direction the the general the general point that he was making was that they're open to restricting truck traffic to turn left out of the site so heading towards 140 not the other way right so we and and that was a we had a meeting with the members of uh the town's departments uh a little bit more than a year ago about the project and that was something knowing the residences and and the abing properties there we're happy to to make that uh accommodation for the project designed so we certainly understand that and the other point was just in the peak hours there's uh a total of about 20 trips uh in the morning and then at the end of the day of that it's about 14 cars and seven trucks so in the morning you'll have 14 employees arriving at the site uh they'll divvy up uh however they get into the vehicles you'll have seven trucks leaving uh those are the estimates based on the it counts as well as the employee counts that the the employer has here uh so from a level of service the impact on any intersections or signalized intersections as you're heading towards 140 we wouldn't expect there to be an impact uh certainly we can you know work with the town to see what other studies you have uh but I think certainly running an exhaustive traffic study isn't going to really yield much of a a different answer than that but we'll certainly take input from the town and analyze whatever you think it's appropriate okay thank you I think we may at when we get to the end of the discussion this evening um we may look to compile quote unquote homework for you for the next time you hear um so and I think the other point to make too because the members is not here today we're not going to ask for a vote nor could we vote today so just to maybe ease everybody's concerns we're not going to be asking for that here today so I wouldn't have entertained one anyway so just to make everybody aware okay um so Eric or Jim any other questions for the applicant at this time um otherwise I would move to members of the public um who may be looking to ask questions or make comments no questions for me no additional questions at this time okay uh so if you don't mind stepping down from the podium um again this is a hybrid meeting so we have people here in person in the room and we have people here in the zoom meeting so I'm going to do my best to go back and forth uh I do see that Mr Welch is looking to speak first here in the room I don't have to be first I just think hands up so you get to go up first um and then I do see uh two hands raised in the zoom meeting so I'll go to them next but Rob if you want to go again just uh you have refused yourself so you're speaking as a as yourself okay and my first question is just to highlight a point that's actually your fav so you like it and speak up the first to me Rob sorry okay the timing of the trucks coming in and out you were highlighting that and that you're backing them in at night or late in the afternoon so in the morning they can pull right out and so I just want to highlight that that should result in there not being a bunch of backup alarms going on early in the morning they would be in the middle of the afternoon correct that would be the Assumption assuming that the drivers do that okay but in any case you're talking about we are talking about 5:00 in the evening and 8:00 in the morning and not 10:00 at night night or 4:00 in the morning no I understand that but I it was something I jumped out of me from what he was saying and comment they so I just thought I'd highlight that much um because then my next question is going to be a little tougher um I wanted to ask what size are these trucks are these 18 wheelers or these box trucks okay for example I will ask the applicant that in followup so if you want to just keep going and I'll take a list okay the other thing is there a diagram I could point to on the screen scen hope sure we should be able to share that back up Paul were you or Brian sharing before or was the applicant sharing was Shar Michael house I I have it if need be okay so if you want you can probably just point at the screen behind you it'll be this has no ink in it okay it's not my TV anyway yeah oh good you need just to zoom in or is that no no this works because what I got to show is is more high level um this area out here it it is Wetlands I can see you there um are you filling in in this direction at all we are filling up to the 25 so no Wetland filling we're staying 25 ft away I don't mean in the wetlands I understand this is and the reason I'm asking is cuz this area I know there's a higher area down here and I was looking at it and this might just be doable you know so I agree with that but the one thing I wanted to be clear of is right after the edge of here and I took a picture to pin down exactly where it is it's right across the Ed of the driveway from 355 it's straight in the ground suddenly slopes up and this lower area over here is sort of like the neighborhood's catch Basin um this area all up over here is higher up I'm familiar with it CU I own the property right here a lot of the water comes down through I've done some property things to rroo and some of it to stay over here and not go out in the road you know but the thing is this like earlier this spring I was able to launch a kayak go wandering around the woods it feels it you know it's no longer Wetlands it's a little pond with trees coming out of it um we did it's been over a decade now but we had an area of severe flooding um the water actually filled that in and made it up it was actually up 2 Ines over a front door of a house right over here you know that we are that we live that close to flooding and this area here is what saves us was the time CU it water if you're near the train you can see exactly what I mean it goes down that low spot in the woods there's the waiting River in the back it it goes on out so um backup Wars and all that aside the biggest thing we don't know if you're not filling in it kind of Smooths things out for me and I that's I was trying to figure like if this is the driveway 355 then you actually are because the slope starts right here if the drive 355 is over here you're complete we can pull up the grading plan if that helps yeah and we can know if if you want to touch on that just and I know you already had the the peer reviewer for conservation reviewed the storm water plan and I'm the reframe of the the simple version of the storm water law that Norton has is that you can't need to have compared to a Nob build condition there can't be any increase of runoff leaving the site after you're done so however much water stayed on the site before or left the site before you can't be any worse than that once you're done and I don't think they're going to have a problem with that because I me when it rained I know they're Paving it now but it's a small area and water fell in there anyways it ran off that Hill down so that happened that would happen today so that's not the concern it's really just if you're not filling in that lower area then you don't affect anything and if you are filling in that lower area even at all then we all get nervous because it's what keeps our properties from getting flooded okay so would you to would it be better and I'm supposed to talk to him I'm sorry uh would it be better if we had this question float and I can answer right now do they want a chance or how do we do that I I can ask the applicant if there if there's any if they have any comments on it um is that all of that you had that you wanted to talk about this evening Mr Welch that's going to be the point I brought up the rest of this I mean there's things we don't like them but you know I'll get to you in a second hold on one um industrial Zone and that's the way it goes of Brook down through there is a brook it's on the other side I did look at that and in my opinion if you don't mind me talking directly to them I don't think they're hitting that it was on the low side on the other thing where I wasn't I was so um I these Woods a lot so I'm kind of an expert on real eligable if you want to just step down I do want I will give the applicant a chance to answer your initial question about just the the dra the standard size of the trucks and if they want to speak to the drainage now or save that for a future um followup sure so so the trucks it's variety of size it's been sized up to a 53 foot patri relocation does have some 53t trucks and that's a tractor trailer tractor trailer okay but they have they do have a variety of different Siz trucks that they use but has been sized for the largest truck that they have operate on Sun so you sized it for all tractor trailers but in actual it's a mix of tractor trailers and box trucks correct M okay correct thank you in terms of the drainage we are not filling in any of the wetlands we stay outside the 25 ft no disturb offer based off the Wetland bylaw in Norton my question though and I'm going to make sure it's I understand what you're saying well let me make sure because he did um I'm not asking whether or not you're filling the wetlands I'm asking whether you're filling in any of the lower area out there at all so let's just try if that's I know it's I know it's but yeah all the questions should just need to flow through the chair so we're not doing cross examinations and uh turning into a Few Good Men not that we're going to that Tim to clarify I'm asking are they filling in the lower line area there at all not the ones that are actually have blue written out in the w l understood the whole is what affects us so um if you're comfortable answering that now if you want to look at the gradient map again in more detail to answer that that's so so the grading occurs on the side SL so there is some fill on the side so we're not down in the lower area the lower area is essentially the Wetland that's where the flags are we are up on the side slope going up that hill so we are increasing fill in that area we're also cutting down the top of the hill top that high mounted area so we are cutting that area down raising up the side slap a little bit keeping 3 to one side slaps that would be gr over at the end of the day okay thank you um so I did have some people joining the zoom call so I'm going to go to them for the next one if the people here in person want to draw straws to see who comes up to the podium next please feel free to do that um I believe the first person in the meeting room to raise their hand at least according to the order here the name on the zoom meeting is Meen um so I'm just going to ask if you can please unmute and state your name and address if you'd like to come on video you can but you don't need to so Meen I'll just sit sit here and give you a chance to find the mute button if you'd like um and if you stepped away from the meeting then I will move on to the next person and circle back around to you so I also saw that in the meeting um somebody whose Zoom meeting which may not be their actual name says Rebecca Clary uh so if you'd like to unmute and just state your name and address for the record please and then I will recognize you Rebecca Clary 425 southwester street thank you very much um so my concern is with the traffic where I am on South Worcester is where um legally the trucks are supposed to be coming in and out I know that they don't always do that as it is but uh that is the the stretch that the trucks go in and out is by my um where we live and we have many children on that stretch the road as it is right now is unsafe so if this were to pass um and you have that many more 92 trucks coming in and out throughout the day with um safety I am very very concerned is the town planning to put um possibly sidewalks to make the street safer or I mean it's it's dangerous on a good day and now you're talking about 92 more runs coming through and it's just very worrisome to those of us who have children especially those of us who have smaller children um children waiting for the bus in the morning we've had many near instances where the children have almost been hit um so my concern is with the traffic okay and I just want before you um back I just want to clarify that they said that the total trips and that's across the entire day was the the number but there would be they said 25 to 30 employees so people driving in their normal Passenger cars to get to work and then they would leave in 10 to 12 trucks and then they would come back in 12 10 to 12 trucks and then all leave in their cars and go home so there would not be 90 truck trips throughout the day still it's a lot of traffic regardless if they're trucks or cars or whatever it's a lot more traffic on a short span of Ro that has a lot of kids oh yeah I just wanted to make sure that the numbers were clear and that we weren't you didn't have the impression that there were 90 trucks and then all the people Associated and all of that so just to make sure that um I know understood I am uh I frequently drive up southwester and wood and Woodward and all of those related streets so um thank you um I did see the person on the zoom meeting whose name says maren come off mute and come on video for a second if you'd like to I called on you before so if you'd like to just state your name and address uh you certainly sorry about that I couldn't get it on off on uh mute um so Marine dbo 5 Lisa Drive um I have a question regarding the troops um if you if they arrive after business hours where will the trucks AR uh stay will they be able to get on site or there a staging so they would be on the site either in a parking spot or at a loading dock and the applicant has proposed a landscaping plan with trees to Shield the building somewhat from view from across the street I'm sure that you would be able to potentially see some of the building and some of the trucks through the trees um but they have proposed landscaping and they would stay on the site so it's not a gated facility then um I do not believe that they have listed a gate on the plan but I will ask them okay and I had one other question um this is just sort of do they have um their own drivers only or will they be also using Independent Drivers and how will they know what route to be taken to enter and exit the facility sure um I will follow up with that I would expect that since the the applicant has proposed to restrict trucks to turn left out of the site that that would be something that would be Happ a sign and would be covered in every driver orientation session that they have when they bring somebody on no I understand that with an employee but if using an independent driver understood you know understood what I was asking understood thank you hey thank you okay um got a short followup so I will I'm going to go back and forth here so I'm going to treat you like any other member of the public Rob so you're going to have to no it was a followup through she said I didn't know if you want keep the um but yes so in terms of um is there a gate proposed at the site or not at this time so not at this time there's a gate proposed it's proposed to be open if that's something that the board would like to see we certainly Circle back with the out I'm not sure if it was just a clarifying question not necessarily something that I'm stating a preference for um and I'm not sure if um if you'd like to speak to the comment about whether these are full-time employees or contractors or how that how that model generally works if that's something that um you're not sure about then that's fine or if you're not comfortable answer yeah they primarily use their own drivers it's very very rare they use Independent Drivers it's all their employees who are coming to the site every day or their drivers and on the site plane there is proposed signage for the left terminal only access thank you okay um taking two comments from the zoom meeting so I'll come back to the room here if there's somebody who'd like to come forward and speak um I will just say that before you please come up um we are not going to recognize any comments that come in through the zoom chat if you would like to speak you do need to be recognized and speak directly um I'd ask that you please use the reactions function in the zoom meeting to raise your virtual hand and then I will know that you're waiting to speak and I do see we have one person waiting in queue and I will get to you next hi I'm Barbara childes 333 southwester street thank you so I'm right on the bad curve that's where I am so a couple of the points I wholeheartedly agree with if you I would encourage you to drive down our street on an extremely rainy day so you can see the flood I've had my pump on consecutively since December so and I'm higher up but it all coming so it's it's a very wet Road um part of my question was I looked on your the website for Foxboro the owner and I see that it says Monday through Sunday Miss I'll just ask if you can just direct the questions to me he knows all the answers no worries you know you'll ask all the questions so my question is is this Saturdays and Sundays as well because we have the com competition and they really it's low traffic on Saturday or Sunday CU I work during the day so I don't really have a problem on the weekends but I I see we're moving would be kind of a weekend event so that is a concern my other concern is the nature of the road because adding this extra traffic the road on southwester is not the best Road in town these additional cars are going to cause problems I have enough trash that's been thrown on the side of the road from employees so part of this would be wanting a kind of a good neighbor feel because I I'm not opposed to business and economics and raising lowering our taxes I moved in when Cisco was down the road so I'm no stranger to large trucks but there's a difference between the Cisco years and the years that we're experiencing right now and they're not positive which affects our values and that is a concern right now for me when I go to resell my house if I'm having a bad neighbor so I guess those are part of my concerns um making sure that they it was addressed in terms of not going over the bad curve because again that is dangerous with the large trucks and that was something Cisco never did trash road infrastructure Good Neighbor policy um the question about lease trucks and employees because we have a lot to Transit employees with the competition so I think that's another valuable thing to know what's the turnover rate um because that does affect the neighborhood fi so I think those are are all my questions for now okay thank you thank you and not to make you make you steps in but just in terms of the clarification is weekdays weekends all days of the week no so we actually just confirmed with the app he could make it tonight but he did confirm they don't normally work weekends okay so that's a very Rarity on their part um but in general there is the potential for some weekends in the occasional very occasionally so General I think that I would be hesitant to put a weekday only on the permit yes okay so we have the you don't think you'll be operating on weekends but who knows what the case is in 5 years it has to do with when people need to move so that that's why it's a very rare they try to do it during weekdays but there is a rare situation has to occur on the weekend understood thank you um so I'll go back to the zoom meeting and then I'll go back to the people in person here um the zoom ID is DD um so if you would like to just come off mute and introduce yourself with your name and address please yes hello um my name is Dominic at 360 South Washington Street which looks like I'm going to be directly across from this thing and um 361 Wasing sorry and I just mainly want to know where where is this driveway entrance and exits going be from my briway okay and just to show it on the board at all I wasn't sure from that I tell where my house is at okay and just to confirm your address is 361 Southwest Street 361 okay he did say Washington too at one point I think you said Washington you threw everybody for a loop thinking you were over by the school so sorry about that no worries okay so in terms of the driveways here let me see uh if I can pull this up and uh go from the map here so the applicant is proposing two driveways one of which is for for generally passenger vehicles and that one is further away from 140 so closer to um when you look at Parker um but in terms of let me see can't really see the wetlands here on the uh I got the here it's Mr chairman we can show it on the map I think we find the residential addresses on the opposite side marked we cross checked it with the Google image just um sure if you can share that and just um sir if you can just they should be sharing on the the zoom screen here if you can see here so so 361 should be right diagonally cross from the industrial entrance bring up so it's not so it's kitty corner from your driveway it looks like would be the the larger entrance where the trucks would be going in according to this map so your driveway is not directly it's in between the driveway of you and the and your neighbor is basically where the large driveway is currently shown on the map okay and um and obviously the lady before me hit a lot of my points with the uh with the traffic and the conditions of this road as it is is not really great anyways and a lot of trucks come out of Cisco or that area where Cisco was and go the wrong way down south street as it is so I'm just we're concerned about adding more but um I just wanted to make sure that my concerns are um heard on that and um are there going to be any of these trucks carrying any kind of hazardous materials um I can ask the applicant but my expectation is no um because they are moving generally household and business Goods um they are also required to have a pollution plan for the site okay yeah yeah um yeah like and like what I was saying is um we're just concerned also about our property value going down and the increase of trash so yeah uh good good um neighbors is something we really looking into thank you sir thank you okay anybody here in the room here that like to come up I see I'm sorry I saw his hand first so I'm going to go to him next and then I see you so I won't forget you there please come up and just come to the podium just say your name and address please for the right thank you sorry didn't mean to have that there for you how you doing my name's Tom Bain and I live at 8 had Road in Norton Mass and I'm uh about 3 400 yard away from that property as the grow flies in the back so I had sent an email to Brian uh yesterday you said that you've read all the emails so you must have read mine and I'll just like to reiterate them for the record here and that I I want to acknowledge that you guys have heard me because my uh my number one question was are you considering the peace and quiet and safety of us and our homes in making this decision and we want to make sure that that's uh a concern in your evaluation of this project and proposal and from two of the members I've heard some positive questions in that regard so we appreciate that uh the second question I had wasn't really for this but you said that if I emailed it it could be brought up so was is there any the question is and you've alluded to it already is the former Cisco property the noise is horrific uh pardon me so I was uh my question is does the p town have a mitigation plan to address the existing noise problem from that property Norton does not have a noise bylaw so any enforcement would be based on the state noise guidelines which are based on levels 10 DB above ambient um and ambient means what it is without correct all right so well I think we're definitely exceeding that uh and there are a number of different however the state wrote the rules is not necessarily uh plain English right um the building commission other Town staff would be the enforcement authorities for that okay I understand that you have probably talked to them before about the he new you know it's at some point you decide you determine is it worth really talking anymore because nothing happens so that's kind of where we're at with the health department uh and then the third question is why would we consider another potentially nuisance neighbor when we already have problems with the existing one which you've already brought up uh and I'm hearing a lot of mitigant here and I appreciate that you're addressing these but almost all of these uh are are very easily overlooked 5 years down the road road you can put all these things in the in the deed restriction that you want but as you've already alluded to the existing uh 10 uh property over there the trucks are going the wrong way it's really loud it's it's a problem so it's great that you say the limitation is 7:00 a.m. to 5: it's great that you say you're limiting the number of trucks and it's great to say you're limiting the percentage of stored material and it's great to to say you're limiting all these things but it's an awful lot of limitations that you're leaving it up to them to self police which uh you know if you pardon my skepticism but I'm skeptical so anyway that's it I just have those concerns and I appreciate you giving me the time to express them and I'll just just to respond to some of the points I think just to to clarify the hours of operation that we're proposing the applican group would be part of their permit so it goes with the building uh for something like the blue star industrial park they did not even though the hours of operations of certain tenants were limited to business hours they said they would not accept a condition of hours of operation because they don't know what the next tant would be in this case the hours of operation are part of the permit for the building right um but from uh as I think the planner noted in the beginning the site is zoned industri so this is from a use perspective it has of Right Use but they do need a special permit cuz there are a lot of exceptions yes there are but in terms of um we it would be challenging let's say I'm not a lawyer and I don't pretend to be one but I think it would be an uphill battle for the board to say we don't want this use here in the zone where the use is as of right okay I think it's I think that as long as you're considering all these other uh these issues yes and that there's something is there any potential followup to the existing problem with the noise which is really I think my primary concern and the primary concern of a lot of the people here in this room sure um Paul I'm not sure if you want to speak to any of the I'm sure that you have been in discussions with Town staff as this project has kind of come to us in terms of um what we have done to try and address things with this with the neighbor in terms of what um who people should call and what they should do right so I've discussed as you said with a few particularly the health agent has said noise is concerned because he's our staff most directly involved with the whole Market situation in your neighborhood but they are Board of Health is our enforcement on it along with the Building Commissioner um but this was also a concern building commissioner so somebody else in addition to the Board of Health and the Building Commissioner yeah but it's would be through the Board of Health but one of the benefits here of putting it in a condition is it can be enforcable I I'm not so certain about the whole Market situation but I know in other areas of town where we've had trucks going uh against the direction in the plan Town manager's called after he's received complaints they have he's called the you know the company said we're getting these complaints and I would give them the the special permit to say that you can't take a left turn and so getting that getting any of this loation in here gives us a lot more ability to enforce it if there if it's in there and this site or any site if they're violating it then that gives us an opportunity to go in and say you can't be doing that for this site that doesn't do anything for the next for this site right right I'm just saying for any of these that have that have special permit or site plan uh conditions that gives us more legal weight okay thank you very much appreciate it thank you and I know I had said I wasn't going to forget you and I didn't so please come up my name is Ru Snider and I live at 381 Southwest Street I have a big concern of safety safety is the Southwest street is a narrow road you cannot have two trailer trucks Cross by side by side and be walking cuz you be dead this Warehouse I mean they have all good intentions but it's Wetlands it's safety it's noise it's terrible I don't mean to bring up other places but Home Market Foods came to Norton they said they were going to have 20 to 25 trucks a day we put a we put a camera out on our tree and we had 200 trucks in one day and I'm good I'm not lying and the noise is terrible and nobody listens nobody I think the their hours of hours of operation should be in order of condition I they are accepting that yes yeah and I think if they're going to work SS and Sundays that or not that should be in there too because I have lived at southwester Street since Fernandes was there so I've been through hell let's put it that way and nobody wants to listen because nothing's in an order of condition we have argued and argued and argued and it seems like we're talking to the walls so my main concern is we have a lot of children a lot of people walk that road safety is a big concern they plow snow right across into the wetlands I've seen it happen this there's a lot of things going on on that street that people do not understand and I don't like to complain and I usually keep my mouth shut but tonight was my my night to come here so that's it's a narrow road it's very dangerous and I'm afraid cuz like I said more trucks whatever are they big diesel trucks that use their Jake breaks I mean the No it's it's terrible I could go on and on and on and I hope somebody helps us out a little bit thank you thank you uh I'm just going to try and sir yes I'd like to add a comment yes please come up and I do see the hand raised in the zoom meeting so I'm going to go back to you in just a second here that wire has gotten the second person tonight so my name is Kenneth Patell I live in six LS of Drive uh I'm near Mr Bain there been there for 31 years um I just want to say that I'm opposed to this permit uh based on the fact there are so many complaints going on already about the noise coming out of this area the noise pollution and the the air pollution the light pollution the the threat to to children on the street uh and you you have to consider that and if you don't you have to uh take own it and you you know you'll own the ramifications each one of you so I I I'm asking you to to reject this request okay thank you sir okay thank you and maren I see that you have your hand raised in the meeting again is there anything additional that you wanted to add yes sorry and if you I have two more questions and if you can just say your name and address again for the record so we watch it back we all know D 5A drive thank you um so I have two questions one is um they had mentioned 94 trucks coming through two ways in exit in Poss in employees they said 0 90 trips in total so the expectation is that there would be roughly 30 people showing up in the morning for work some of those would be office staff some of those would be people going on a truck y they would load into 10 or 12 trucks those trucks would leave they would come back 3 4 5 in the afternoon and then those TW and then those 30 cars that people showed up in the morning would leave at 4: or 5:00 whenever they were done okay do those employees include their Paramount transportation business that they run also because they are both both businesses are direct the directors for both businesses are listed under the Secretary of State uh Corporation Division and if you look at their property on 10 um I think it's panis Road in Foxboro both businesses are located on there so but they moving both businesses to this location or just one business okay understood sorry I just had to bring it up and my other question was um it's great to be putting limitations on this business um for Paramount but what happens when they move out of town or they are they leasing the business or do they own do they lease the land or do they own the land and building their own property um but what happens if they move out of town do those limitations move to the next business or the next company that moves in the hours of operation are tied to the permit for the building so they stay for the building okay okay not the business okay thank you okay um so just to if you don't mind coming up just I have a couple of questions that I saved up for you here just in terms of clarification of um is it both Bill and Foxboro businesses that are connected or is it just one so Paramount Transportation Systems is a company based out California they are a client of patriot relocation Patriot relocation serves as a subcontractor to them for service in this region so they are not two separate comp two companies in the same building our our client serves as subcontractor to them but in essence both the business of both is what you're relocating to this correct okay um and just one comment that one of the residents made was in terms of snow being plowed into the wetlands I don't know if I recall did you have a snow removal location for there is snow removal location shown on the way perfect thank you so not going into the wetlands correct following the thank you um okay and yes please miss if you'd like to come up is Janine um I live at 13 Margaret Drive and I know a lot of you know everyone's brought up um a lot of the things that I'm going to say um but my main my main couple of concerns are the noise um that is already present that I feel that would this business goes in they're having to to clear a a big a large area of land that is a been a buffer that is holding back some of that noise when that's cleared how loud is it going to be after that right um I'm also worried about the the light pollution I know you said that the the uh the lamps are going to be facing down um will it be will they be a good neighbor and if it's if there're still you know if it's lighting up the sky and I feel like I'm I'm living next to a um to a mall you know are they going to to do something about that you know once they're in if there's a problem so so um were you able to access any of the files for the site or no that's the other thing we I was never I never had any kind of um okay you know never never had any notification of of even this going in so I'm just finding this out all really very recently so the the notification process for a Butters based at I think it's state law is that notifications are mailed out for a Butters of a Butters within 300 ft of the site so you go from the site 300 ft in every direction you find every AB butter and then you go whoever is next to those lots so those are people who get an official notification and some of them are here um if you'd like the town planning board does maintain a public access file where you can see all of the documents that the applicant is submitted um one of those is what they call the photometric plan so it shows based on the lights that they're saying they're going to put in okay you'll see here's the light here's where it's bright and then it will drop off to zero um and they've stated where do I find that uh it should be linked if you go to the Norton website and then the planning board and then there's a folder um if my computer doesn't die before we shut down access it on the website yes okay it's a l to a Dropbox area where you can see all the files okay um and you can look and see where the the light stops and where it kind of Fades out so obviously a light that's further away you don't see it as much if they have those covers going on it down the light is focused and you're not seeing light horizontally um and they've said that they are they designed the lighting to not extend beyond the property l so would you be able to see that there are lights over there probably but would you be would it be lit up no that is their what they are proposing to us you know the people who live on southwester are worried about that too I mean you want to have a night time to sleep and you know yes okay well thank you and if you do have any problem finding the files you can definitely reach out to town staff and they can give you the give you the link directly via email okay thank you okay uh I'm GNA go to somebody on the zoom meeting and I see you next sir uh so the hand that I see raised in the meeting is Kevin Driscoll if you'd like to just come off mute and just state your name and address y my name is Kevin 10 nor okay I do hear a bit of an echo so I'm not sure if you have a a second screen going there I do not grab some your want to go some El okay we can still make it out but just wanted to see if you uh you can go ahead notun sir are you ready to uh I'm sorry if I asked you to tweak your audio now we can't hear you so I will take ownership of that better now any better yes that's better thank you any yep I hear you can you hear me even better now we hear you yes thank you okay I'm sorry about that no worries Kevin Kevin go 10 Cathy Road in nor I'd like to reiterate what a couple of the Young Folks said in the meeting that the noise from Home Market food is just ridiculous and it's gotten worse over the past few months um and the second question maybe I missed it earlier in the meeting but with this new project Why Can't This go into one of the other designated industrial parks I mean right near the highway where we we've already had tax easements and things like that to set up these new industrial Parts like this project be put there sure um that's it thank I'll give you the simple answer to that one this is where the applicant says they want to go and it zoned an industrial lot um if they I'm sure they looked at the industrial parks too and this is the choice where they're choosing to apply for their permits so um it's as the planning board it's not our it's not our place to tell somebody where where to go just like it's not our place to tell a homeowner that they shouldn't do X Y and Z that they want to on their own property yeah okay fair enough just thought i' asked the question yeah no this this could be all it it certainly entered it certainly entered my mind too so yeah I'm sorry it certainly entered my mind as well okay thanks I mean all these a lot of these all these questions might be five books at that but thank you and just Again Home Market Foods just crazy understood thank you thank you sir and I always ask if you can lower your virtual hand and that will save the add portion of my brain from going just a little bit crazier uh so sir I'd uh wait can figure out no worries thank you I am uh Bob hindle 9 L of Drive um just coming to this word of MTH around the neighborhood just learned about it so I agree with um my neighbors and about the safety and the noise and and everything so my question is just because it's new and I want to understand why they they want to leave Foxboro when they seem like they have a pretty decent uh Transportation path um and are there any incentives the town gave them to to come to town um just wanted to uh I'm not aware of any incentives the town has given in terms of a tiff or anything like that were they were they good stewards in Foxboro were there any complaints about uh the organization in Foxboro that is something that we mentioned earlier and I think the planner was just going to check from our understanding at this point there were not but uh they were also on Route One in Foxboro which is a different kind of environment than we're asking they're looking to go into exactly so that's all I wanted to know just trying to get up the speed for show your time thank you sir okay anybody else in the room who'd like to come up and speak I don't see any hands going up quickly but just making sure that okay U I do see another um a repeat hand raiser here in the zoom meeting again the zoom ID is DD hi um my name is Sue at suo and I live at 361 Southwest stre street right across from where you're uh intending to build um so this is directly your your project is directly going to affect us with noise uh fuel smell uh lighting pollution um I just want to know is this a foregone conclusion that this is going to happen um I hesitate to say that anything that comes before the board is a foregone conclusion um we've been speaking about it for an hour now and talking about how we feel about different aspects of the project um but I will say what the plan I will re I will restate what the planner said at the beginning and what I said earlier it is an industrially Zone lot and they are proposing it as a great use i i i respectfully understand that I just want to state that I have little faith that um B stor will goes on down the street with Whole Foods and Cisco empty building um with you know with what the activity that we have around here the problems the noise the trash the fuel the trucks um we're going to be directly affected by it so I do not have any faith that the the tenant is going to comply and be a good neighbor so I would like to concur with the gentleman that stated before that he hopes this does not go through and that this isn't project is not approved I say that respectfully thank you thank you there anybody else in the room who wanted to Rob if you'd like to come up and again um just for everybody in the room comments through the chair and if we can answer them we will if we need clarification from the applicant we will try again okay so Rob Walsh 341 south wester Street um first of all um the trucks that they're having going in are these all owned by that company and an example would be and I'm going to use Cisco as an example because it's Food Service just a bad okay Cisco had all kinds of independent truckers and trucks from other compan that would bring product in it would get stored in Cisco they redistribute it under their trucks and they send it out the Cisco trucks frankly despite the sheared numbers were really not that bad themselves in the neighborhood it was the others that did and it was because Cisco could police their own drivers they had the authority to do that and they did very aggressively and so their drivers were actually pretty polite well behaved versus um the um you know the independence and the things that the guys they don't have control over that was where the problems came from with them so that's my first question is and this operation sounded like it so I just want to pin it down the applicant already stated that they tend to use their own hired drivers they didn't they said drivers drivers and that's why I'm asking trucks so it's their drivers yeah whose trucks I can clarify that okay any other additional questions yep um um are they Associated whatsoever with Home Market and the reason I'm asking that question I think not but I just want to clarify um I think we're all pretty mad at home market and this is a different entity so I you know just assuming they're going to come in and be as bad as those other people is a little unfair I just want to point that out um and then are they running any Refrigeration units over there whatsoever do they have Refrigeration facilities in the building this is household goods I think I asked that and they said no they said they would have AC for the office space basically AC that was fo office space not in the warehouse no refrigerated trucks correct okay and I'm pointing that out because that's where most of the hum and the noise does come from and I'm not trying to sell this idea at all I'm just trying to separate out the points um and then um commercial tax income like that did just come up briefly and they said there's no known tips on everything so not that I've been new so to our best of our knowledge I'm going to phrase it that way um this is some commercial income Fox burough is currently enjoying that we come to Norton and I'm just bringing that up because there is other topics which I know you don't want coming into this room but you guys know why that matters to us um I I would say that every it is important to grow the tax base I would also say that one building does not no it's not going to make a difference for make up for a townwide challenge in budgets just point we can't chase every we can't chase everyone away though we have to be reason um idling um is there any other operation involved the trucks idling at all sitting out there and idling or did when they put them on the deck doc do they just shut them off and that's the end of that sure I can I can ask the follow up for that okay and what I did just nail down for the the real things that are sources of problems from the existing was the outside truckers more than they themselves the other thing that's hard to police that we've seen is cuz I go walk in the morning I'll tell you those box trucks actually aren't that bad they don't speed as much as people say and they're somewhat polite who who is a problem are the employees they're guys arriving they're you know they're pushing the minute to be laid to work they come down Sou wer like a rocket and um I see a lot of very highp speeding automobiles going in and out of these places as a resident of John Scott Boulevard I am familiar with speeding but does it happen there too just a little bit okay you're the better place I see the giggles I hear the giggles you're the better place to speed you're the better place for racing let's not yeah let's don't go there but those are those are the question I thought we'd clear up those points because they kind of do speak to all the noise and yeah the things thank you and then and I'll just ask if you want to just come just to speak to the you're going in in proximity to Home Market foods and you understand that they have uh do not have the best reputation in the area but you're not associated with them in any way um and the we talked about the drivers in terms of the trucks again are those intended to be owned by the company and registered trucks are all the trucks they currently have are all owned by the company that they operate that's their plan for the future will they be registered in the town I'd have to confirm that with the appli um and it's not generally you're not generally a matter of idoling them when they pull in they stop because otherwise you're going to burn gas for no reason yes okay and the reason about whether the they register is we had a previous applicant was that last year or two years ago I forget last year we had last year was last year time flies and there was a significant potential truck presence but none of the vehicles were going to be registered in Norton which um made would have made it less attractive from a income standpoint yeah we can definitely confirm that okay thank you would the applicant be comfortable with conditions regards to with regards to idling you be open to that okay uh I am not sure what a reasonable level of idling is for a truck to shut down um but we can look at that and discuss it obviously they can't turn it off the minute they pull on the parking spot because Lord knows I don't do that when I park somewhere so even if I don't have to do anything I understand they might need power to the lift gate or something yeah whether or not the engine needs to be running to provide that I don't know and especially with the hours of operation that they proposed we're not talking about late night idling either yep okay um I just see a couple of hands raised here I'm not sure who was first so you two can fight it out here okay did you raise your hand I tried to watch the all right so it's clear that there's a conflict in the zoning between industrial and residential um why isn't the town taking that into consideration and why you seem to dismiss the notion rather casually that hey it's industrial I can't do anything about that you know it's it is a little bit I find that a little bit offensive because it it disrespects our opinion that we we see a conflict and it should be writed instead of you know just going along with the with with the uh current definition so but uh um when one zone abuts another part of what the board takes into consideration is what that impact is so in generally we look for projects to be more rigorous in how they design lighting plants landscaping plants how they look at traffic those types of things at the end of the day it is an industrial use and Industrial zone so we went through a similar project on Hill Street a few years ago where there was an industrial Zone across the street from residential homes um we worked with the residents to identify what their concerns were with the area again traffic on a narrow road um to mitigate those as best we can work with the applicant for reduced hours of operation again something we've discussed this evening um for projects in that are not abing another z um in general for industrial project the hours of operation are 24/7 um that's the case in blue star that's the case in some of the properties by what used to be Gold's Gym I forget what it's called now um so those are the types of things that we look at we look at setbacks as much as we can um we don't want say people going right up to the right up to the setback if they're against a boarding so so there are stricter buffer requirements there are stricter buffer requirements thank you so there are pieces when an industrial zone or another Zone butts up against a different Zone um which play into how we look at everything um not trying to dismiss your concerns and I apologize if it came across that way right it it's clearly there's a conflict between residential and Industrial here you've got you know and and Norton zoning makes no sense if you look at it from a whole Wetlands you know I'm concerned that the you know I know we've got done studies with grades and this big parking lot's going to be pushing water in a certain direction uh where is it going it used to be absorbed into the into the ground there and now it's it's going to flood it somewhere else it's going to go somewhere where is it going we already have floods on southw street so oh we got you know and that's why they already went through conservation they did a storm water study and I see you with the sarcastic nod here um part of that review with conservation is that the town hired an independent engineer to look at all of their reports and make sure that they follow norn stormw water bylaws which mean that no additional runoff leades the site than what leaves it now with nothing built so the applicant has had to build in drainage or other features to accept all of that runoff from everything that they PID so what happens when and if you'd like to look at that report it's available on the town website moving on um what happens when the trucks are late because they're in traffic and it's after 700 p.m. would do they go somewhere else it's after 700 I can't go to Norton what happens my expectation is they would probably show up late and if somebody filed the complaint then the town whether it's the building commissioner or somebody else would say we had a report that you had five trucks at 8:30 last night your hours of operation for 7:00 please explain okay and because we're looking at it at the permit level this is not this is something that as the planner mentioned that has teeth also have you have we done pollution studies with these big tractor trailer trucks so like is my neighborhood going to be inundated with diesel fumes uh when the wind blows a certain way uh even if it's 9:00 a.m. in the morning do I want to smell diesel oh it's 9:00 a.m. it's okay I don't I don't get sick at 9:00 a.m. you know of course I care um you know it's again conflict between industrial and residential and conservation land okay and and finally you know the notion that safety you know like the town needs the tax money um the town needs the tax money even at the expense of safety for kids people walking on South W Street I again I find that offensive you know that oh well we need the money so if somebody gets hit oh well you know we got better you you know I I just I will ask you to stop there cuz I find that comment insulting sir okay well you said it you said it yourself no I did not said well we need the money you know that's what you said sir I'll ask you sit down you like to speak again later that's okay thank you Sor if you'd love to come so so I just want to uh comment about If This Were to be approved we're talking about no Refrigeration on the property and I just want some sort of assurance that if you were to move forward with this that that would be a condition that stays with the property and that a subsequent owner can't all of a sudden decide that they're going to have refrigerated storage and we end up with the same problem is that something that is a reasonable request that is something the board could condition the afist stated they will not have refrigerated trucks um and we can discuss that as we move forward with this process thank you uh if the applicant doesn't like any of the conditions that we put in terms of our decision they are free to appeal okay thank you sir you'd like to come forward no no no I don't want to slow things down I'm here Alan Boule nine Charles Lane um Mr chairman if you could go over to the members of the public here um even though this is as of right use in this Z the standards of approving a special permit and what is considered by the board for approving a special permit and start with that please sure um so the town has a number of a core standard of evaluating a special permit application um the core of it is that the positive impacts of the development significantly outweigh the detriment could we just Paul or Brian pull them up just so everyone knows what board members are actually considering when there's projects like this it's not just yes we like it no we don't like it there actual criteria sure I do not remember the section by heart I'm pulling it up yeah please but to uh to speak to your point the only aspect of the project that meets that's the special permit criteria that hit the special permit criteria was the applicants parking requirements and size of the building size of the building triggered site plan review not the special permit I believe is that correct Paul or did they both trigger special permit combination combination combination okay sorry uh I'm almost there that's fine here we go okay perfect so um just to stay this if anybody can't read the uh the screen the criteria that the board evaluates for a special permit are is the project socially and economically desirable would satisfy an existing need the advantage of The Proposal outweigh by far any detrimental effects that such effects on the neighborhood environment shall iFly greater than could be expected from development if the permit or special permit were denied uh that the applicant had no reasonable alternative available to accomplish their purpose and that specific conditions to minimize detrimental effects of protect the neighborhood have been imposed and if necessary secured by Bond or my only other question or comment would be if uh could explain the process of changing zoning and does this board have a um direct impact of how that land is zoned or can change the zoning of that land or how would it go about changing the zoning of you know industrial property that abuts or residential property um in terms of changing the zoning that is something that the town could put forward or any Resident could put forward at town meeting if they wanted to propose a change in Zoning for a lot or a section of lots um in general uh Norton because of how has been developed does not have has some designated areas that are there's a bunch of industrial over here there's not a bunch of commercial over here um Norton tends to be a bit of a hodgepodge uh we have industrial property next to residential on south wester street where the the Cabinetry place is across from uh we have Home Market Foods in this property um as I mentioned there's industrial land across on Hill Street on the back end of the industrial park um so Norton has a lot of and even beyond that Norton has a significant number of lots which the existing property doesn't meet the zoning as it is they're existing non-conforming structures so uh you have homes that were built there and the zoning changed around them and they've just kind of stayed there so there's nothing this board can do to just change the zoning of that blot correct no if I could also offer in terms of if a resident were to present a resoning of a particular parcel the Attorney General would have to approve it um and the state frowns against what is known as spot zoning which is rezoning a specific lot for specific purposes well yes so with the site AB budding other industrial sites where industrial site industrial uses are being um used it this it would be a challenge but that's not something that's been proposed something that anybody could have proposed in the last decade yes okay um I'll make a call to see if there's anybody in the zoom meeting who would like to raise their virtual hand here and make sure that I give them an opportunity to speak if they have not already uh since we do have a number more people joining the meeting than uh our normal meetings we should get the S bill for every meeting um not seeing any virtual hands going up I'll go around the room to see if anybody else has any final questions or comments as the applicant mentioned they are not looking for a vote this evening if there's nothing further I think that the next step would be for the board and the applicant to discuss um any further questions clarifications Etc that we would like them to make before we see them again so if you'd like to uh just come up and we can review any of those items um one of the questions that I think that you heard from a number of the residents was in regards to traffic I know we have the it calculations uh for the warehouse use um Laura you kind of you wrote this up initially is there anything specific in terms of traffic study traffic data that you would like to see as it relates to this um I'm not sure I mean we could put down a couple of speed trips and see what perent what the average speed of people traveling on that road is to make sure that sight lines are good um I'm assuming that the average speed of people on that road is not the speed limit this road in particular this section of this road has come up before two town meeting to have it um the speed limit changed um the motion was not um moved at town meeting the select board went through the effort of putting that as an article on town meeting and it was not moved so nothing happened there um there were some disc discussions about doing the solar um powered speed monitoring so it flashed when people were speeding um I don't know whether those were ever installed or not I have seen one on Southwest John on John Scott by um there's one on Southwest there's one Southwestern yeah right right across from ever L generally yeah I'll take guidance and suggestion from the board whether we feel the having just seen the trip generation calculation it seems sparse in my opinion um but again I'm looking at the the actual number of trips per day and agree it's it's not terribly excessive I don't know whether it warrants a full traffic impact assessment or not okay um is this something where I'll ask would you be amendable too I'm not sure if um in terms of the site distances coming out the site um would it be something where you would be comfortable putting down a a speed monitoring just to confirm the average speed to make sure that our site distances are good given the concerns around speeding and Etc yeah I certain that would give us some at least data on trips and average speed to look at to supplement what we have in terms of the it CS is that I we certainly speak to the client uh see if they're amenable to that and R the analysis and provide more information on site distances at the intersections as well you Prett look good for that information yeah does that seem reasonable to you yes thanks okay I'm I'm thankful that at one point we had uh I think it was vaness and Associates talk about what are the costs of putting down one of those those speed strips and kind of okay this is how I I don't feel uncomfortable asking somebody to do that because it's not asking them to Y yes okay so we talked about traffic um are there additional questions that we want the applicant to review um in terms of before they come back to us again nothing else okay I just have one other question sure can I give you one second just to finish my train of thought here and then uh go into that um and in terms of um we talked about um somebody asked about a gated site I don't think that that was something that is necessarily a proposal or something that fire would generally be in favor of or any of us would be and unless it was an emergency they would have to put emergency gates up with giving them the key okay they didn't bring up the question of gates though okay there was a something dangerous on site I'd feel better about it but sure yeah okay um I think the only other homework item that I had on my list here was just a confirmation that there's not any hazardous materials that are part of what you generally do um and if there's nothing else then we would look to continue this to the Future session um so before we do I'll just um if you wanted to come up and just ask a final question two things one we checked the record of taxes that are paid in boxboro and I just wanted to make sure that they're paying current in that town so that that would be part of the followup that we have been talked about that the other thing is yeah I do think previous speaker um online made a good point about the Paramount because I'm a little confused why we would just have the one name on this permit when I Google Colin L's name and he's coming up under Paramount so I do think we want to clarify about that if we are having one company or two companies coming to southwester Street they've said that it's one company but that company works for another company sometimes right so we should expect that everything that's on that site in Foxboro is coming here so is insurance for certificates of liability my question would be all things that the town would would do is part of the business process okay so you will get that and affirm that it's from Patriot not Paramount the town would have whatever whatever the town reg requirements are for insurance for all of that stuff is things that this board doesn't deal with who verifies that um in terms of verification of Insurance I'm not sure I mean I know the accountants office part of the business right but I just want those are things we should know about ahead of time those are not things that the board would generally consider as part of our process you just if there's we would consider if there is a if we need to have a bond to guarantee that something is finished or if they're putting in a road we would ask them for a bond or assurity to um if they stop and don't finish the road then we would cash in the bond and finish it for them okay or something like that all right that makes sense generally other than that we don't get into Insurance unless it's a very rare circum it's just because of the two companies that I wanted to ask because you're applying under one company but your insurance is uh under another I just the umbrella of insurance just that's a question only because his name comes up on that Paramount it's not uncommon so it's not uncommon to have a subsidiary and apparent within the same site no I understand the last just a general comment because I just think that if anyone information the best is the town planner did provide me with the link and I do think your memo of May 8th um is very insightful because it does list all the conditions and what the planning board has to do to consider and what's in your purvey so I think that would help answer some of the other resident questions on what they can and cannot do and what they must consider in terms of um the considerations on the impact on the neighborhood because it is all in this memo and it's very straightforward so I found that helpful as a resident concerned about this project and if anybody can't find the link on the town website they can definitely reach out to the town planner or town staff and they'll send you the direct link um so in terms of continuing you do not have any additional things in motion with other Town boards no um I would ordinarily I would say I would ask if we want to continue to our next session I would say in this case it may make sense to skip one session and come back in the subsequence question simp because there's a potential that an additional member of the board may have a conflict on the next meeting date which would be one of your voting members um so rather than June 11th our next date would be the 25th the 25th of June is that a date that we're works for you that works for us okay and do you have any additional questions clarifications on things that we've asked you things that you need us to give you before we continue I I will add that uh I've just been communicating with the client via text here you could make the meeting today but he you're welcome to reach out to the town of Foxboro uh there's no issues that they've had as it relates to their operations you know finances or any of that stuff so you're more than welcome to confirm uh but I expect you'll get good feedback or no feedback from the town as relates to their operations that is fine but of course I'm sure that the town will do that on their own and uh yep I'm sure that I I have a very high opinion of myself as well that's about your client to know but fair fair enough that's a I'm just a cynic at heart sometimes okay so any further discussion from members of the board prior to continuing to our June 25th session okay that sorry no you ready for motion go for it motion to continue special permit number three and site plan review number two to June 25th seconded okay we have a motion and a second is any further discussion for members of the board currently voting okay Eric yes Laura yes Jim yes and I will vote Yes so we are continued until that date um the meeting for the June 25th agenda will be posted the week the end of the week prior but the Dropbox with all the files will be available the whole time so thank you very much everybody we do have additional items on our agenda you're welcome to stay um if you do choose to leave the room uh please don't tell me what the Celtics score is and uh we do have other items to discuss so I'm taping that okay and moving on to the final public hearing of our agenda this evening uh steal your agenda here that is an sp-6 special permit for zero Crane Street um the applicant is seeking permission for a special permit for Earth removal and a common driveway um Paul do you know if they are here in person or remotely or if they have any I'm actually here uh remotely Mr chairman Evan Watson W engineer thank you I S I saw the logo on the screen but I didn't know it was uh what it was tied to so thank you okay you should have the ability to share your screen please let me know if you do not um if you'd like to um just give a narrative of um what you're looking to do here and the relief that you're speaking from the special permit very good thank you Mr chairman my name is EV Watson W engineering representing the applicant also on the call one second sir I'm going to ask you to hold on just a second we do have gentlemen we do have a meeting going on at this time so I'll ask you to please have your conversations in the hallway thank you sorry for cutting you off there no problem I can't hear what's going on there so I appreciate it so just we talked over so um so again um Evan Watson W engineering representing the applicant um what we have here is a proposal to construct four single family homes on a piece of property in Norton on the corner of Crane Street and Pine Street um and because of uh your bylaws require that if a certain amount of Earth is required to be moved from the property even if it's incidental to construction it would require a special permit for Earth removal and then also on this site you can see that there is a wetland in the front of one of the Lots so to reduce the amount of impact to Resource areas itself C we're proposing a shared driveway for two of the lots and again your bylaw requires that if we have are proposing a shared driveway that we uh this planning board is a special permit granting Authority um and list criteria that we could meet to to allow for that um so I'm going to step through the plans briefly and then um I believe um the town planner had issued a memo um basically helping the board understand how we comply with the bylaw both for the uh shared driveway and for the Earth removal thank you please go ahead yep so this site here um you can see these are the topographic lines here on the property um each one of these lines represents one foot in elevation so you can see we have an elevation of 95 here um not too far away we're at 80 so you know we have 15 ft of elevation change the road is at 72 so we're from 95 to 72 and then throughout the site it's what you call pit and Mound topography there's just a lot of up and down and uh all over the place so it makes it tough to build a house on you know a lot like that with with all these without actually removing some soil so um part of our application for um these will have septic systems so we did some test pits throughout the site and then we also did a grading plan um based off of how the the Lots would work um so you could see in here you know it's we're not doing anything too drastic it's we're trying to get access from the road and then provide um a flat area for the house and the lot so you can see out front the roads at 77 you know 80 to 73 and this lot we're proposing to be at about elevation 80 um up in the back here the existing grade is about elevation 75 um in the flat zone to to 80 so we're again proposing somewhere around elevations from 80 to 82 to 75 here and then same thing this this area it's sloping all the way down um we have an elevation 85 to 70 so we're setting that more or less at the middle there um and then same thing for the last lot coming up from the road and then trying to balance out and then get rid of all the really tall mounds and and pitfalls and things like that through here um we also provided crosssections um well here's the results of the test pits rosion control notes Etc um we we wouldn't typically do this but your B requests that we provide cross-sections throughout the site so on the site plan you can see and I don't have to detail this too much but it shows you you know basically the level of excavation that we're looking to do and we're not looking to go so deep to get close to the groundwater um the idea here is not to it's not to remove all the soil and then run away and forget to build the houses but we're looking to build the houses here um so all these uh cross-sections you can see is is why we're doing that um moving on to the the shared driveway portion of the site again you could see um we have I had a colored one here a little bit better so we we are in front of the Conservation Commission uh they didn't close our hearing last night um John Thomas was away and they didn't feel comfortable um conditioning any approvals so we're expecting approval at the next hearing but this uh purle line is 25 foot no touch we have the 100 foot buffer zone um so you can see in here it's difficult to get a driveway on this lot and be within the 20ft no buffer zone however we can slide it over we can be almost out of 100 foot buffer zone and then um have that driveway shared for the two and so some features I did for this um and it's more detailed on the individual site plan but we have a widened uh exit here so that somebody's looking to one of the home owners is looking to take a right or a left out while waiting um there's room to get into the Drive um we also provide a little turnout right here um again so that if somebody's coming down and they see their neighbor they can let them pass um and then we ultimately ended up at the last house um your requirement is that a shared driveway um be 500 feet or maybe longer if the board determines that it's safe Etc so um I think in my application I said the driveway itself is about 600 50 ft but the shared component is only uh 498 ft so the actual driveway that's on this easement for for that lot would would be 500 ft I think we would still look at that as an extended driveway that semantics have caught us have Tangled us before the drive given that the driveway is the driveway as a unit is more than 500 ft and I think we would just want to make sure that fire and anybody else was felt that the access up it was safe Y and I did I know their requirement is uh 12 feet wide with an 18 feet clear oops excuse me so you can see in here we have 18 ft wide of pavement as we come in um we have 12 feet width and then we step up to a little turnout of 18 feet to get a car bu and then it continues on to a lot SE at 12 feet wide and then um this will require grading on both sides so they will be cleared with greater than 18 ft uh throughout the whole driveway um this is just the the same thing for um lck SE for that shared driveway um I think Paul also updated uh the board we in front of the Conservation Commission and part of their requirement is to make sure we comply with the town storm water bylaws so um we did provide a storm water bmps we've analyzed the site to make sure our storm water um doesn't cause any issues and it was sent out the peer review uh Pat bin took a look at it and the last Corr response we received from him said that we address all of his concerns so um we should be good there so with that um you know I again the um the planner did provide a great detailed um letter here and I don't know if it's important for me to to go through that or if you guys folks have read it and had any questions or if Paul maybe wanted to I was going to ask him to speak next Once you were done I was going to ask him to speak so okay all right very good well that that's done I'm done there with the um presentation of the plans i' be happy hear from Paul or any members of the board or public okay um Paul I know did you want to summarize anything additional um in terms of this project just one additional point that this is this land is actually in chapter 61 land which means it's agricultural use and agricultural tax exemptions so as they're going going through the process of selling they have to clear that as part of that process they they offered the town right of first refusal there's a meeting at the select board this Thursday to go over that now what I've been informed by the select board's office is that no Town department has expressed interest in this so uh the board will be is scheduled to take action on that WR a first refusal on Thursday okay uh um okay and in terms of any additional comments that you wanted to just in terms of has the fire department looked at the driveway and they're confirmed that they're okay with it uh yes they've I'll let me look at my notes here they've they've had a chance to look at it um they they had signed off on it I don't have any specific notes they they checked the boxing we're okay if I could interrupt I I remember his comment he was concerned that uh because the Lots didn't have an Assessor's designation quite yet that they didn't have individual addresses for emergency services so um we let him know about the chapter 61 issue um that we are expecting them to create assess his Lots once that's taken care of and he was um happy and said he would work with the uh building or assessment Department to make sure that each house guard its own address okay yeah thank you yeah the the other aspect of this is uh the requirement under the Earth removal is for shity you're showing an amount sufficient to cover the cost of restoring the Earth removal operation that's in there so that that that is a requirement so that would be a condition that we would attach to the special permit is the shity as noted yes um if you want to file in your your notes for standard conditions involving assurity um if we want to specify an amount um I would just want us to have language that would allow us after a certain period to re-evaluate the shity if needed for example if the project sits for 2 years and the cost of bulldozers triples um and the shity would not be sufficient to cover it that's a terrible example but um with a prior project where we specified a charity amount and then couldn't change it um that's something that I would prefer not to do it again okay um but but if P if peer review has already looked at the storm water and fire department signed off on the common driveway um are there any additional open items with other Town departments or staff that we need to be aware of other than conservation is still in process no um all of the other departments have have uh have uh reviewed it okay and signed and signed off on it the system does work sometimes it's getting there okay U any additional questions from members of the board for the applicant here only question I had is where is the 22,000 cubic feet of earth going so lville homes has a project in dyon um which could use some Phil so the idea would to be head um West on Crane Street I think we described it in our um narrative a minute I said that the trucks would leave um go down Crane Street head south on Crane Street to Route 140 South uh then go through Taunton on win Street and South on Williams Street into dton for the majority of it I we you that's that's the plan a truck here and there might run somewhere else but there is confirmed have 104 wat subdivis there that could use some fil there there is a confirmed plan is the uh yes okay just don't want them to wind up in the wetlands somewhere yes keeping it out of the wetlands would be uh is definitely what we need I actually think that's an odd direction for them to go that if they go this way they hit the industrial park and they have much better roads and wider roads to travel and an easier route out of there but so see going this I'm gonna call you up in just a second here yeah okay um but if we wanted to condition um truck travel directions based on putting people through the industrial park we've done that for other projects especially for construction vehicles that's pretty standard for um when we do a decision so it's actually an easier route for them they might like it it keeps them away from more residents then that's it does that too yes it's easier for them okay so any additional questions for members of the board for the applicant here and then I'll go to public comment just one that I'm not sure how bylaw covers it I could have missed it but uh it would probably be good in our conditions to have uh street sweeping as needed um leaving the I'm not sure it's covered in their narrative or bylaw or anything for construction during construction for removal um it's most likely street sweeping will be needed I'm not sure I saw it covered anywhere could have missed it yeah um I would just if it's not covered anywhere I'd like it in the condition yeah I'm not I don't recall a a special permit that was just for Earth removal recently it was always tied to other stuff applied for a couple that's usually a perfect okay yeah if we can add that to the to the potential list here okay um so not hearing any of the comments from the board obviously we can ask them again uh if they come to us in the next few minutes if there's any members of the public who'd like to come up and ask questions for the board I'd ask you to please come up to the podium and just state your name and address for the record please last night talk about hi my name is Eric cler I live at 50 Green Street Norton Mass uh so we have bought this property which is about to be uh developed um so our concerns are uh the Vernal pool in the back which we had a conversation with the uh conservation committee yesterday uh and and now uh they're talking about hauling all this material out this Earth removal uh where is that going to come out of is it going to come out on Pine Street or Crane Street because if it comes out on Crane Street that's uh agricultural land right there and it's not supposed to be uh ridden over uh so there is a road that goes through a gate there but it's uh been already segregated as agricultural land so are they going to have to build a new drive to get that material removed out of there and how is that process going to work me sure so the expectation is obviously they have to have a drive coming out of the site to take anything off um one of our standard conditions that we generally include depending on where the project is located is specific directions for construction vehicles to travel so in a lot of cases if it's something up on Washington we'll say go through the industrial park not through all the residential streets U which generally they want to get to 495 as quickly as possible so it makes sense but similar things we can evaluate to send them in the right direction because as we already have in our neighborhood uh similar to the whole southwester situation uh you know we have a lot of people that walk their their families and pets and and things up and down our road so do we really need more you know this is the reason we already have signs up for the no uh trucks going down through this area from the industrial park and we already have a high high amount of traffic that goes in the morning in the afternoon uh so adding these trucks into this whole mix is going to create just more it's just going to add more congestion that's all I have to say thank you and just to the comment about the vernal pools that would be something that conservation would be part of whatever approvals that they would do okay thank you please and I do see somebody in the zoom meeting I'm going to um go to you in just a second I've lived at 50 Crane Street for 52 years and this phenomenal thing they want to do is difficult and last night we watched the meeting because you can't attend them on zoom and my son spoke on zoom and we left the meeting with things not even talked about like Lisa said they didn't even have a path for um the engineering company on their plans where they're coming from or where they're going with the dump trucks with all the the dirt they're removing and um so that was left open-ended and so were a lot of other things by the conservation this has gone on and on and on CU they're saying we don't have a veral pool that is feasible and yet we do so there's a lot going on between and the director wasn't there last night so Lisa kind of helped along which she's great she's a I think engineer anyway um throughout the whole meeting there was all kinds of questions that couldn't be answered and they couldn't answer them me either the engineering company and so we were talking about the APR land and that's where they were going to go in with the dump trucks to go in and go on the back and remove the the Earth and they can't do that um that's why she said you have to have a plan where you going in and where you're going out in gravel and the dirt has to be you have to think about what you're going to do with the dirt in the street and she gave them all that and um I sound like I'm going on and on because I just every single step we've taken they've taken there's been a problem and the we have we have Wetland we have vernal pools we have Springs we have Esters Pond which they haven't even addressed which is all Springfed and this all this building is going opposite of the pond and and the commission is trying to handle all of it and I'm not sure what you I haven't seen this map of about the share driveway it that that's where where the two boards kind of say that's your lane that's your lane kind of yeah which lane are you taking so if you hear it tonight it's like and I thought that was going to Neil dian's driveway um who initiated this whole thing the selling of the land their their mom passed away and so the kids want the money from the land so that's okay fine but it all has to be done professionally and it just seems like coming tonight I didn't know that this was happening you know the the she had driveway where they're coming out where because those questions weren't answered last night and it just happened and I'm not good about going on to my son is good but if he's not there it's difficult and that they wanted to have meetings where people could come but a lot of people on the board didn't want that to happen it was easier for them to zoom and zoom is hard for people people that are older and makes it difficult and just to stay above it because the houses are going right on our next to our property and Jimmy that lives next door you know his son had a a little league me uh baseball so we're not we're not all consumed with it but I am because I've been there 52 years with no houses no problem water yeah we do get it in the Cellar this may cause a water problem it's things that when you get older you don't think about cuz you don't think you're going to be there anyway but all these things are happening and I know that John Thomas is doing the best he can and the people on that Bo to doing the best they can and so are you and this is the first time I've attended one of your meetings and the only way I got up here was Brian because when my daughter went to help with the aged people I had had to climb those stairs and I've had eight back surgeries there was that door was locked couldn't get in it from the elevator so it's like I don't know it's just I'm just going on but I don't mean to cuz your time is important but it just seems like they keep coming up with something different thinking that they've got a plan and they don't really have a a complete plan and I know you're watching out for towns people so here I am first time and that's we got you to we got you to a planning board meeting once so thank you we got you to a planning board meeting once so thank you I am yeah and I did I vote but I um one time I tried to get into the the school when my granddaughter goes and there was no parking for disabled anywhere and I couldn't even go in and vote at the um Middle School the middle school and it was like this is my town and I can't even get in there V and it's like the town's exploded I think those first couple of spots on the on that front left lot are supposed to be marked for handicap but well every spot was taken I must have gone at the wrong time that's frustrating and I can't walk that far so in this one was locked but Brian let me in so here I am and that's the story okay but I wish they were I wish I wish uh it wasn't happening thank you and um Mr Watson just to clarify one of the points that the uh the ab raised in terms of this is the you have the layout of what the driveways would be post Construction in terms of what the construction plan would be given the agricultural land around the site has that is there a plan that shows that yeah so the um it was always intended to have the shared driveway just to to make that clear and all the plans that we presented to conservation showed that so it's not really make that clarifi but that's okay if you hadn't seen it I can understand um and then on this plan we show that on each uh spot on the lot has an a access um to either Pine Street cran Street or this um other road that comes through the Ting property that's owned by the current owner um I did just um take a look at the agricultural um overlay that's on that property and I haven't I'm not done actually reviewing it um it was it was a little clear to me at this moment whether or not um it's allowed or not to access this piece of property over it uh by driving something through here um but be that as it may if it we get through the end of that and we determine that that's not an adequate way to go we will just have to um come in through some of these areas here so we'll have to have a small um work grp that basically makes kind of breaks into the site in uh these areas and then we can have a um convenient circulation throughout the site as we get going but these are the um stabilized construction entrances that we have adjacent to Crane Street and Pine Street and then um just I think there was discussion about street sweeping in the past a few moments ago um part of the um conservations permit will require street sweeping and they we'll also have to um file a Swip with the EPA which um is a Construction general permit um which dictates our erosion control and street sweeping and and all those types of things as well so um if you if you wanted to put it part of your permit then that's your perview that's that's absolutely fine but just in want you think that um it was over workor sure um and Paul if you don't if you are able to um review with the applicant if that access is allowed given the restrictions on the land um that would be helpful just to understand what the um if we're changing the plan if we're going to give a a plan approval we want to make sure that the right we don't have to modify it afterwards okay um and I I see you I do have somebody in the zoom meeting who wants to speak so I'm going to ask them to go first and I'll get to you right after if that's okay sure okay uh the name on the zoom meeting is uh Denise Giblin so if you want to just come on come off mute and state your name and address please yes uh Denise Giblin 13 Smith Street in Norton and I have two questions um first is related to the shared driveway if that is not approved and if an alternative location has to be chosen uh particularly it was it was pointed out that um that sharp corner on Pine Street just before 171 that's a that's a very dangerous Hill curve at the at as it stands right now without a driveway there so I would be curious as to what safety safeguards would be put in place if the applicant if we do not approve that common driveway it is on the applicant to propose an alternative I'm sorry I I I could you repeat the question it's not a question to you no they were asking oh okay if if we don't approve the special permit for the driveway what is the plan and I basically said that is on the applicant to work through I I just want to express my concern uh because that is a is is a safety concern on that that ill understood thank you and then secondly I would um I'd ask that um the engineer pull up the proposal letter again there was something that I saw on there I wanted to look at again was it the letter from the um do you mean the planner's memo or yes I the under the proposal um uh paragraph it refers to Fran Jamie Riley could you elaborate on that suppose um well I know the owner is the Riley trust uh the person that actually submitted the application um was Lil Holmes as the applicant so I think um it might just be on if I could bring up part it was on the assessor so okay so that's how the assessors had it marked so that's the all of the um in other cases where there's a question of who is the the owning party of the property we have asked to get a uh a letter stating that this is acting on behalf of the owner or something like that I don't see that as something that we necessarily need to address in this case but well uh who are the owners being referred to and that it's the Amelia Riley uh land trust it's right but when you refer to Francis and Jamie Riley um who are you talking about is the trustees this is the town the owners ma'am the town will can only issue permits to people who own the land or who represent those that own land that who owns who owns the land who who you are you referring to those people in the letter as owning the land ma'am you are free to follow Francis Riley is the trustee of the Amilia Riley uh trust and who is that and he's the uh and that's the owner of the property and and then JY Mr Watson I'll ask you to stop oh go ahead Sorry Miss Giblin I'll ask if you have any questions about ownership of any particular lot in town please that is a question best directed to town staff um it's not the applicants responsibility to untangle how a family may have set up their estate planning I I'm not really questioning the the intricacies of that just the how the the letter as stated is false if I could offer the name was pulled from the Assessor's card and the Assessor's Database is only updated approximately once per year so information that's on the Assessor's card that you can the public can see may be outdated excuse me can I get up and speak about about this I'm an owner of the this is Francis rileyy please do yes I apologize sir I apologize for all this in incorrect stuff St number one that's my niece she knows who the people own the property it's under the Amelia seiley reality Trust I am a trustee my brother Jean Riley is a trustee the people that have the developers are long build homes and there's been a lot of miscommunication that I don't even know about you I'm sorry I apologize it's lack of communication in some respects also I went to a the selectman's meeting when we we sent the uh letter of uh WR first refusal to the town that was months ago and I'm sure it's over the 120 days and the selectman said they didn't want it the department I offered it to the top water department so the W this problem wouldn't exist the way it is but unfortunately it didn't happen that way but you said you stated that the letter of right of refusal is still pending that's it's on the agenda for Thursday why is that when they when the selectman stated no we don't the dep they don't want it they may need to take an official action in a meeting that would be my guess um because I asked you know if if it's if you're going to go through the 120 days and they said no we won't we're going to will will give you a notification that the right of refusal has they said they didn't want it so I interject here uh I will ask you to hold please I'll ask sir I'll ask you to hold since the applicant and since the owner is currently speaking well we're all owners okay just one second I'll ask him to finish any any comments that he has and then I will recognize you thank you as far as the uh the gravel removal the property they're talking about as far as using as a driveway to get out onto Crane Street that's an APR restriction that's under the Restriction of the Department of Agriculture they make those decisions yeah and town staff will check that out also the property is under agreement to be sold that's another situation you're gonna have to deal with and right now it we're going through the process with the to Department of Agriculture as this buyer being accepted through the department to see if they are sufficient enough to F it so thank you all right and uh I'm sorry about everything in the is you know losing your land nobody want you know I don't want it any more than anybody else but the the size of the Lots in our location has gone from 30,000 to 880,000 square ft so that may makes a problem also you see the the Lots up the street where bour is and new people allow less a acreage there that was a a cluster development so there was a whole different I didn't agree with that when you're making other people have an 880,000 square foot lot and then you you make a deal with them you know I know it was for open space but uh it's it's not fair to the people that you know had to it's right the cluster is right you know but is there anything further that you'd like to add sir yeah I and then there was another um I had a letter from the uh Mass wildlife they wanted to know what was going on with with the F and they have that which is lot 299 uh and that's that's what's going to happen it's going to stay it's restricted it's going to stay farming it has to stay farming it's not going to be developed as far as the W rest goes it's not not my decision understood thank all right thank you um and oh another thing as far as the address it's just a type of graphical error that he knows who the trustees are and Denise knows all right thank you understood um and I did see um the name on the zoom meeting says Neil Dion or Dion I apologize if I butchered one of the pronunciations on that um if you'd like to state your name and address please for the record you are currently on mute sir you're on mute right now I am on mute we got you now all right my name is Neil Dion I'm at 171 Pine Street I'm the house that's in between all these all this development um thank you Mr chairman for allowing me the opportunity to speak and I'd like to clear up one thing that when Butch Riley was was speaking about the right of first refusal the right of first refusal on the 11.8 Acres which is where the four house lots are was already conducted so the town did uh wave their right the the the one that's in the books right now that they're voting on or trying to decide what they're going to do with it is for the lot between Steve and Mandy which would be 40 Crane Street the attorney did not submit both uh properties at the same time so I just want to clear that up for Butch I hope he understands that okay yeah I from the planning board's perspective we are looking at the project in front of us anything outside of that project I know that yeah okay so my I just want to say to the board regarding this uh shared driveway uh the shared driveway is there is because Lot C is not a feasible lot you don't have the room to put a driveway in so that's why you going to put a a shared driver in so you can add another house in there to get some more Revenue but the thing is that that driveway is going to act like a dam for my property yes there's some collection pools but what happens if when those are full or there's a maintenance problem with those collection pools who is going to maintain it Which Resident is going to maintain it who is going to oversee the residents maintaining it sure so go ahead I would I would say that the storm water plant itself was reviewed by peer engineer correct yes so um an independent engineer was hired to look at all of the storm water calculations and evaluate what happens when it rains a whole heck of a lot um in terms of what lot is responsible for maintenance um if there are specific aspects of a storm water plan that are that require ongoing maintenance that is generally something that is included in what conservation puts out right but who's the Gover Authority for the homeowner is this going to be an HOA where there's going to be oversight for this kind of stuff question un unless that is put before us it would be on whatever lot if it's a common driveway it sits on one lot so whichever lot it sits on it is the responsibility of that homeowner because it's their land and the other and the other user would have an easement or something like that to use the common driveway so this is going to create an argument between homeowners that's what I foresee in the future I mean every not everybody is Happy gol lucky and can can have a good relationship with their neighbors I'm not saying that that's what's not going to happen but the possibility is there that is so it's going to create a a headache in the future is what I'm saying that would always be something that we would consider when looking at any common driveway application even if it's coming forward as a common driveway with uh I want to put my daughter wants to build a house next door to me one house may change hands and uh people may not get along quite as well that is always something that the board does have to think about not just right now but in the future that's something that we do with every project that's my concern with if if that does happen my concern is with the water because that has to be maintained and it would go with whoever owns that lot that the driveway sits on and that would be part of the requirements of the store the perment that they got from conservation I don't agree with that but I would Mr chairman if I could just uh make one comment uh to clarify a little bit for the board um the Shar driveway here is at an elevation that's you know between four and five feet lower than the abing property so but Evan at the that holding Pond right there at the driveway right on it's right on the edge of my property line yes so and then the low spot is here so everything would flow this way nothing nothing goes this way because this is all higher so but I just wanted to clarify that for the thank you I'll just ask that for the future just direct everything through the board because um I try to avoid cross-examinations going on even if people are uh being professional so um Mr Diane did you have any additional comments or questions that the board can for you I ask that you reject this proposal thank you thank you are there any additional comments from anybody in the room here or anybody who's joining the zoom meeting I had one com sure sir if you'd like to come back up and I and I know you just spoke but I'm going to ask you to say your name and address for the record please again I think she just never lower her hand how you put it you uh this man here requested that they do sweeping of the streets when they're doing moving gravel well I live on Pine Street and all the time they've been doing the construction for over a year did you require them to do it I got cracks in my ceiling when I because of the high heavy weight of trucks going over the road all the time and when I went and SP talked with the town maner manager all he did was give me the address of a a company and go see them building inspector would be the the building department would be the first Department you should contact well I went to the town manager first he he should you know but I mean if you're going to have it for one you should you know you do it for all it could have been a there it could have been in there this is a completely separate project you're you're suggesting that that the sweep is for to clean the streets I got nothing against that but what I'm saying it's just common sense you're bring I know that sir but you do it for if if you want it done for one you make the rule for the every pardon who says we didn't who says it's not in there it's I can't remember that far back do you ever request it for the the four Lots on Pine Street how am I supposed to remember one of the 50 meetings that we're talking about it's that's out of line oh it's not we don't need to all right I'm Sor no but that's that's what people get upset about sir it's just like with the the construct construction on Southwest I pity those people there they've lived there for years if if the chair will leave me a little little latitude for one minute if you think we're here not to help you people and help we're here we're Town residents just like you we're here to try to help these situations realiz that I realized that when I go up and I we're not argumentive with you we're trying to help the neighborhood I I realized that okay but I'm I'm explaining we're here doing the best we can at 10:00 at night for progress thank you I think we've okay yeah okay all right thank you Mr Riley welcome U this is to D skiin again if I could just speak briefly sure please if you could just State your your address again for the record please sure it's uh 13th Smith Street in Norton um just going back to the letter I don't want to beat a dead horse but I I know and I understand that this is not under the planning board's jurisdiction but if there's any um uh direction or advice that you can give as far as having that portion of the letter reworded so it does not reflect uh Butch and Francis and Jamie Riley which are a couple and reflect Francis and Jean Riley who are the trustees I would encourage you to send an email to town the town planner who can review any of the documentation that is filed I appreciate that thank you okay so Mr Watson I know you are still in front of conservation um given that the conservation agent was not in the last session um my generales I have a general hesitation to close this public hearing prior to them moving forward uh so that they don't ask you for changes that are not reflected in anything that we have in front of us we you continue to a specific date by conservation we were to June 10th okay um our next meeting is of course June 11th um do you would you prefer to be continued to that session allowing you with not much turnaround time if conservation asks you for changes or would you prefer to be continued to a subsequent session um that day would be fine um our last meeting with the Conservation Commission they asked us for one small piece of information which they kind of already have but they they wanted me to clarify a little bit and then they just wanted the final um you know word from from John Smith uh I'm sorry John Thomas um so I'm I'm confident that we'll have closure at the conservation hearing at the next hearing okay with without without any changes okay and from the members of the board is there anything further that we want to ask the applicant to confirm um as of now the one piece of homework that I had listed was confirming construction access to all Lots given agricultural restrictions is there anything further that we want to have confirmed at our next session if not I would look for a motion motion to continue special permit number sixth until June 11th second okay we have a motion and a second is there any further discussion okay hearing none I will go through the role for the vote to continue Rob I will start with you yes Eric yes Laura yes Alan yes Jim I'm sorry that broke up a little bit so I'm going to ask you to repeat it yes thank you and I will vote Yes as well so we are continued until June the 11th thank you very much everybody very much we've concluded the open hearing section of our agenda is there anything else anybody wanted to state in the open session this evening prior to any additional motions motion to adjourn do you need help getting down second sure okay we have a motion and a second to adjourn any further discussion yes that's my discussion okay Rob yes Eric yes Laura yes Alan yes Jim yes and I will vote yes thank you very much everybody have a good evening