welcome everybody to the Norton planning board's meeting of June the 25th 2024 again this is a hybrid public meeting so members of the public and members of the board are welcome to participate in person or remotely uh in person we are at the Norton Public Library this evening and to join online via Zoom there is a zoom link available in the meeting agenda or the meeting ID is 638 9291 060 the same one has been for 4.4 and plus years uh there's also a phone number available should you wish to dial in by phone directly so with that out of the way we'll dive into our agenda this evening um in terms of planning board business and policies um we do have one item which I'll discuss uh at the end of the agenda from my perspective so I'm going to put that at the end uh in terms of bills and warrants um we do have um Brian did you want to pass around the bills that we have just for different things these are related to yeah I got it um so we have these are sign offs for the community planning grant that we have been doing for the zoning recodification um so those are all tied into this packet of documents here if you would like to take a look please feel free uh but that is all from a grant is not coming out of our general fund or anything like that okay and we do not have any minutes to approve in this session so I'll skip that one um and the final item on the top section of our agenda is a selection of a planning board member to the Elm Street uh sewer project working group PA did you want to give a quick introduction just what they're looking to do and yeah so we're thank you chair we're we're looking to just create a working group made up of Representatives of different boards that have an interest in both El Street El Street sewer and the former re Martin site um as as we're going to have a vote at town meeting to uh for funding of the balance of funds for the sewer project in October we just felt it was a good idea to get boards talking together talking with each other and aligning on on a very important topic and so what we've asked is for um each board to appoint one person so thought planning board Economic Development commission select board finance committee and water and sewer committee each have a rep and get a chance to talk meet with each other and with staff and then would report back to their respective boards it's again just focused on you know this critical decision and of course planning board has a has a sign ific role in this in fact about two few years ago remember the board recommended uh changing the zoning from industrial to Village commercial um and of course any project that comes forward any future development will go through this board and then finally redeveloping that site is a priority listed in our master plan which course you recommended the prior board recommended for and it was recommended at town okay so again this is to the Bo's talking ahead of fall town meeting which um seems like it's going to be long the town meeting or leading up to town meeting both both yes um so we don't need um is there a date that this committee is looking to meet at this point in terms of a deadline we don't have it set yet but sooner than later and like EDC they're going to appoint someone to tomorrow night we're also on the agenda for select board and fincom at their upcoming meetings I don't know about water and sewer but EDC is not going to have quum tomorrow okay I just got the message okay so soon enough so in theory we should try and select somebody to serve on this committee either this meeting or next meeting so I preer yes tonight um so is there anybody who is interested in being the plan represent for this committee I live I mean if anybody else wants to do it that's cool too but I I live right there I go canoeing on the river right up there I'm pretty close to it if anybody else is interested in it I could try to take the EDC position Laura raised her hand as well so yeah I actually had just had a fairly lengthy conversation with Paul about a week ago about some ideas that I had and wished I could get somebody from water and sewer to talk to me so okay do you want it so does that mean you want it you do it we don't need to make this an official vote if you two want to rock paper scissors to nominate Laura okay second okay that's fine any further we have a motion in a second is there any further discussion hearing none all in favor of nominating La Laura Parker to the committee you say I I opposed extensions okay there we go thank you okay so with that out of the way we'll dive into uh the different applications listed on our Posta agenda the first one is a continuation of the revand hearing for 280 new Tonton Avenue um so we have the applicant here we have uh Count Council here speak to the nature of the remand if we need um but I know they had submitted some additional documentation around the Doberman and the educational aspects of the property um so I'll let the other go forward you can present those materials anything else that you'd like to to start sure thank you Mr Canon every Canon on behalf of Amigo excuse me Tim sorry Robin Town Council before you get started would you mind just introducing all the board members that are here tonight soone watching remotely can sure so have that thank you so members of the board who are all here in person um sorry so everybody's in person tonight Robin do you want me to still introduce everybody okay uh no I mean it would just be helpful so I can't see everyone that's why I was asking I can see like myself Tim GFF who's the chair actually yeah uh so myself Tim Griffin is the chair Eric Norris Jim Arts Rob W Steve BW Laura Parker Al okay there we go all right thank you great thank you Mr chairman so Edward Canon on behalf of amigo I'm joined tonight by Andy Armington director of facilities and I'm also asked to join us tonight Bethany McAn who is the Chief Operating Officer of Amigo um May briefly Mr chairman Bethany has been in the Human Services field for over 25 years she began her career providing Direct Services in residential and school settings she holds a master's degree in severe special needs from Sen's college and a law degree from New England La Boston throughout of carea Bethany has held a variety of rool supporting children and families affected by Autism and Related Disorders she also serves as the clerk for the Council of autism service providers Casp uh so we did provide uh a number of materials Mr chairman uh the sort of uh uh Amigo parent handbook uh as well as some sample U individual service plans redacted uh and so I thought it would be helpful rather than sort of drag the board through each of those materials I also submitted a memorandum which I I know Town Council I hope that the we to take a look at but I thought we might be most instructive if the board had sort of particular questions about uh the academic um aspects of the residential communities um Bethany is is the most qualified person to be able to give some some guidance on those so okay we're prepared to ENT any those questions okay do we have any additional I'll say questions for Mr Canon here before we dive into that please you don't mind I don't if you want to see the podium and sure yeah ask come forward just to absolutely in terms of um so thank thank you for joining us this evening I think um the questions that the board had were in terms of looking at this from a we were we initially looked at this as this is a this is a residential structure this is their homes and it wasn't presented to us as this is an educational facility so kind of understanding what the educational aspects are of the program for the residents there would be great to hear some details for so um in our residential group homes we do a lot of teaching we teach life skills how to take care of themselves we teach vocational skills um skills that they need as they can go out hopefully and get jobs and be productive members of society we also teach um sort of I would call them social skills but it's more like friend skills how to get along with people neighbor skills how to walk across the street how to go to the store how to get buy something you know like a how to make a grocery list how to do a um if not all of our our folks are able they can do grocery budgets um they can plan meals buy groceries based on that all sorts of different it it depends on the composition of the folks so it's a pretty broad spectrum yeah obviously you don't know what programs would be at this facility till you know who is actually living there right it's in general that's what we do across the board is we're constantly teaching and we're teaching skills is that maybe you or I might inherently know how to do or children who don't have a diagnosis of autism we might inherently know how to do it but a lot of the people for whom we have the pleasure of providing services for they truly have to be taught it little by little by little broken down into Little Steps additional questions from well I do have a bit of a question um so at no point is there the residents to themselves there will always be an on duty person so would this qualify as a long-term care facility like a hospital or a nursing home not ever in my experience have they ever qualified as that okay um how how common is it for these facilities to be classified as schools I I'm familiar with a lot of these type facilities I'm not aware of them being classified as schools though this is new to me I've never not had them classified at school so I don't I don't have any answer for that question I'm sorry I've worked at a few different places that are residential um and I've never not had them be classified as that it's just it's new to me with all my dealings this is still new to me yeah so you know it's like perspective you know point of reference I but I i' I've been in the field for my for a long time so I no I understand I have autistic members of the family I care for so I'm close toam yeah just seen that okay it's probably just so but continue with that sort of uh whether it's a educational facility or like a long-term care facility you guys are still applying only as a duplex and that is something I'm I'm kind of like are we applying the wrong thing for this permit should it fall under a long-term care facility or like I I feel like an educational facility although this may qualify is generally students come and go I I don't know if it's like a permanently in place because if if it if you need nurses on duty at all time that implies it's a like a nursing facility a convalescent home of some sort not all of our facilities have nurses on DDS at all times there's actually only two but this one is this one will like you said staff not necessarily a nurse but yeah right staff are they nursing staff or are they teachers like they might be qualified as both but is it a nursing primarily is are they there as a nursing staff are they changing diapers and that kind of stuff like we one of the things that we teach actually is basic skills like toilet training and things like that so that's an actual life skill um that we that we teach so it really depends on the composition of the people that live at this facility will there be medication administered there's medication administered across the board that's yes so so is that part of a medical facility then so there's if there's a doctor on site once you have a certification you don't have to be a nurse to administer medication you just have to go through a training it per regulation right depending on as long as you administer it under the guys of um under supervision of a nurse sorry not under the supervision of a nurse and you have completed specific training you don't have to be a nurse to administer medication okay a lot of people that we serve when we say administer medication it could be something as simple as Ty sure it could be something more significant and it could be anything in between could be diabetes I mean really it be anything but but are are there medical things going on that would be beyond what a school nurse would administer without knowing who's going to live there I I I can't answer that okay I'm just kind of like because it's just I don't you're trying to go it's just like it's like a I don't think that you're not doing an educational portion yeah yeah again but that's not also what the permit is for and I am curious about whether it's a medical would it be help I'd like to hear question yes please go ahead Robin we'd like to hear your question sure oh I just I was just going to ask if maybe if we helpful if I kind of um talk about the the law component of that yes yeah I was going to I was going to circle back to that if You' like me to I was going to circle back to that just speak to Okay so just to not to drag you too far into the the zoning weeds here well the zonings I have to turn over but the the reason that we're talking about that is that educational facilities are part of What's called the Dober Amendment for Mass state law so they have different we apply different standards to things under the do Amendment than we do for things that are not so that's why the the questions about education and what does this qualify for kind of why why we ask questions and obviously why they called you yes so um so to speak to that um I'm not sure if Paul or Robin if you wanted just to um speak to to Robin to your point kind of what the um the legal aspects you were trying to speak to sure I thought it might just be helpful this is Robinson to council KP law just to give a high level summary of how the do Amendment Works relative to educational uses uh the term has been broadly interpreted by courts and routinely covers um you know congregate residential facilities where education is primary dominant purpose supporting individuals such as these um that may also have other components you know of the use but the type of life skills and what have you that are being described in my opinion is consistent with how the do amendment has um interpreted or I'm sorry how courts have interpreted what a Dober Amendment educational use is that said ultimately the question in the first instance for the town won't be formally decided until there's an application to the Building Commissioner because the Building Commissioner my opinion is the zoning enforcement officer and so while the question is being put to the planning board because the applicant has chosen to apply for the special permit it's an unusual approach in my opinion and so ultimately um you know the Building Commissioner will make that decision when they're presented with a building permit application I have had informal conversations and I know Paul has as well with your Building Commissioner who based on the initial information he's received I think at this point is comfortable that this would like Le Ado Amendment use but he won't make that determination formally until he receives a building perment application um but in my opinion it would not be unreasonable for this board to consider this adob amendment use um you know I'm not exactly sure why the applicant is Seeking a special permit if they're claiming to be a over Amendment use they're not going straight to the Building Commissioner but they've put the application to you um and you know should you be comfortable that this is likely to be treated as a over Amendment use you are you can through this application that they put in front of you um you know able to regulate the kind of the dimensional aspects you know of the use but you know it's not really before you as a duplex it's before you as a do use um you know maybe the applicant can speak to that a little bit but um you know normally we see these just as building permit applications so so to your to your point Robin is that the applicant is asking us for Relief under the special permit which they may not ultimately need yeah okay no I mean traditionally we don't see special permits for over Amendment uses we just see for applications but you know if this applicant's asking for it I I don't see why you can't Grant it um but I I do think conceptually the type of services they're providing a court would likely agree or over um but it's not ultimately my opinion that matters you know your Building Commissioner as your zoning enforcement officer and so when he gets a building perent application he'll make that final call but I I think it's reasonable for your purposes with this application before you to treat it as a Dover use and I I I think Nick would agree with that thank you have one further question that's why she's here um but the law is you know to that end I know at the at the last meeting you had talked about a potential you know condition if you grant this that keeps the use of the duplex you know within Dover um so if property sold someday and somebody just wants to do that as a two family that would be a change in use they would need to get any additional necessary zoning relief or back or what have you that makes sense and we did have one potential question for you as well yeah um just came up the last last meeting um if this was declared a school or an educational facility does that become a school zone around it um so that's something that you'd want to ask your your police chief but there's a difference between a school and what's considered a nonprofit educational facility under zoning purposes so there's a lot of um uses like this in communities all over Massachusetts and it hasn't been my experience that those would all require school zone but I mean that's something I think that you would want to talk with either DPW or the police department about but there is a difference between something being educational under zoning and something being a school in my opinion thank you okay so could I get like a legal clarification on whether this counts as a medical facility at all or if the educational aspect of it supersedes the Special permit criteria for a a like condoles home or nursing facility type situation um sure so Robin the question is if does the do Amendment qualified use assuming that that's the termination we make would that override any other uses happening at the property for us to classify it under the proper zoning use tables basically if it's do it doesn't matter what else it has going on you know it well so it's only going to have really one use and it's hard for me to answer that question because again ultimately your zoning enforcement officer makes the initial call on zoning but you know sometimes uses have um know overlapping uses but as presented I again I think it's reasonable that it's fair to treat this as a do educational use um and it wouldn't really be up to this board to decide that you know it really should be more of a medical use or what have you um ultimately that's a question you know for Nick but there are certainly many examples of um residential programs in the community teaching life skills and other things like that to different class classes of individuals that do qualifies as overment uses thank you ises that answer your question I think Steve Fair okay so is there a way to grant them or allow them to do this without making it buer without calling it a school in an educational facility um I mean I feel like that's my issue I I feel like I want to call it a school I feel like don't feel comfortable doing it as what they want to do and if if they apply as a school I don't have to give permission or not but I have the public asking me not to do this so the this was before the board it wasn't presented as Dober and it failed um it is here on remen back from the courts as a Dover use which was not presented before um so this is what we have in front of us right now is a do use in theory of this property as Town Council has said overuses often don't need a special permit um can we the applicant could choose to say I will withdraw the special permit without prejudice and proceed with just a building permit and we sto talking talking about it I would like to do that that's something that they could certainly do if they want if they ask us to rule on the special permit relief that they presented then they have to pick one fork of the other I think that would be the the the knowing that the Court's already granted them the do's status in other towns yes so um and do we have any additional obviously have the operations officer here to speak to any other educational aspects of it we've talked to that at length is there anything else we want to ask her before Mr Canon jumps back here shut up okay if I may briefly Mr chairman I do thank attorney Stein for for that analysis um I didn't get involved until the appeal period but I can say that at the initial application Amigo's thought was let's make it a public forum let's solicit input and let's do it in a manner that is um collaborative and uh allows the town to impose reasonable you know restrictions consistent with the do me that was the intent of why it was done in this particular fashion there sort of many ways to skin a c all right with one of the main concerns from the abutters that I got was the invasion of property and also being um Ned in appropriate settings with some of the residents before what are the procedures and protocols you guys going to have in place moving forward knowing that you still don't know like if there is a problem resident is there something that there will be relocated if there's issues like that or is that something that their house there their house there that's it we we actually have done those things before we have moved people if it wasn't a good set right so if there's isues with the abutters that issues are taking place you guys aren't going to turn a deaf ear to what's going on we are actually we our goal is to be a good neighbor to everybody that we're neighbors too I mean we're constantly that's that's what we want to be is a good neighbor we want to have our yards look nice we want to have our houses look nice we want to have our staff be respectful we want to have our folks that were lucky enough to serve be respectful of the community we want to be good neighbors question you're you're saying if had a pro resident you mooved them where did they go it it depends right like so it depends that's just another home like this it could be it could be yeah so a person who is a problem resident in a home in another town they just had to relocate and we could wind up getting them down here in Norton just as easily that's it's a really hypothetical question that would be hard for me to even like no but it was just following the logic of what you said you to neighbor so if there's a particular set of neighbors that have a particular set of things that are of high concern to them we try very hard to listen to them and within reason within the construct I think you do yeah I'm not questioning it's just that you know if if it was yeah when you said you move them I saw oh so there's a whole no and that's what I we wanted to be a forever home for our people right like that's what the best that we can but we are certainly like I said we really try to work with people all around us to make sure the neighbors feel safe that everybody's copesthetic if you will there there have been some some anecdotes shared in previous sessions which were less than positive right about previous inhabitants of this property so just that's the the frame of reference that I think some of the members of the public are looking at this proposal with so um not saying that that is what will happen here just saying that is the frame of reference that a lot of the neighbors do have so thank you for the point of reference yes if I may Mr chairman just also to Mr Arts um one of the suggestions that this board had at our last meeting was to enclose the facility of Defense which you'll see has been added to most recent site plan to address you know just that or to help address it obviously the more comprehensive manner is toing exactly what Bethany has just suggested but a more concrete way is to is to do that to help keep them closed in the erance you have any additional questions for Mr Canon related to the site plan or any of the other materials um and I do see the hand raised in the meeting so I'll get to you in just a second um Mr Canon to you I think you heard the discussion about the the zoning relief specifically that um we were talking about any you've heard Town council's feeling about what she feels is necessary for you to proceed would you like us to proceed with these Special perent discussions at this point I would I think it's helpful for the community I think it's helpful to have a public forum I also think it's helpful for the town to be able to impose you know reasonable restrictions consistent with the do which sometimes doesn't happen uh if you just simply bypass a public forum and go directly to the building inspect um so I I do think it's appropriate in this setting and and U uh you know you know I understand the history of this particular application but where we are now um in light of town council's guidance I I do think it would be appropriate for this build I think it'll also have the Building Commissioner his job okay thank you um so if you don't mind I'll ask if any members of the public have any additional comments they'd like to make um I do see um uh Mr Havens on the the zoom meeting with his the hand raised if you'd like to just unmute and introduce yourself with uh your name and address please and anybody in person would like to come up and speak if you'd like to uh just start making your way towards the podium for uh the next spot thank you sir did you need any introduction as far as other than obviously you have my name there from my end far as where I reside or anything of that nature yes so just say your name and address please sir James hav I'm at 20 met plane um right down from the thank you sir the question I had was just yep welcome yeah the question I had and it had been raised before you know when this was an onover um approach from facility just looking to clarify um at this point the size of this staff and the size of uh members or the clients that would be housed there and again I one about biggest concerns is just the parking and in fact sounds like at least from the original and Current Designs that if the parking was larger um it would actually accommodate the size of the staff better and you know eliminate any congestion concerns in that very narrow spot there but again I don't know if the staff or member size has changed and that's it yeah as far as there have been no changes to the staff or resident size and we did touch on parking at our last session and they have stated that all vehicles we parked on the site and nothing should be parked on met Brook yeah and that certainly meets with you know the the concern that we had uh again as long as there there was enough parking spots there for staff and when they have the big the larger group meetings um where you know you have all available shifts that show up for those um particular times and I I again I don't know if those are once a month do they want less not sure but that's when we really ran into the congestion there I I believe they stated in the prior sessions that those group meetings would generally be held at a different site with the new layout okay thank you okay did you have anything else sir I did on it this time thank you I'm just going to turn around here and see if there's anybody here in person sir I do see another hand raised in the meeting so I will try to go to you next sir uh Zack BL uh 280 uh taunt director butter and um just a concerns still um you know about the speed limit and um how fast it is on that travel on that road it's it's it's crazy um it's the highest posted speed limit in that area um there is a fence that's already around it that's always been around it so this doesn't seem to be stopping those things from happening they're still getting out um and Crossing into 140 um which is very dangerous uh and now that we're going to essentially double we're going from five rooms to 10 rooms when there was 10 kids now there's probably going to be 20 because you're going to have double up in each room and things like that so that's my assumption um the again with the Dober act um I think that you know obviously that's the loophole um we're looking here and it has to come back to education yet they said that they were leaving during the day from 8:00 to 3: to do their education somewhere else but then we're going to come back and it's a boarding house at the end of the day so um that's I don't know how that plays in how your guys' thoughts it's just my thought um that's that's how they're getting away with um but again that that speed limit is very dangerous and I I could just see a lot of people going out there like my boy Peter wiggin's back there every my heart stops every time he's walking down Main Street and down Mansfield AB I got to pick him up all the time you know say hey let's uh get in the car let's be safe um but this is uh this is even higher higher speed limit over there and uh it's dangerous so um like to keep that uh keep that in your Forefront um there and there's um also again my properties there's a judication right there um that's going to go it has to be done by 2026 but it's in the Superior Courts um about the property and um and from what we're being told it's uh we got we got a pretty solid case to to win that so um we've got uh going back many many many years over 20 plus years of uh affidavit signed by every from property there so um thank you for time appreciate it thank you thank you sir and also in the zoom meting I see the hand raised it the name says Ted Marvel or Marvel if you could just state your name and address for the record please yes uh Ted Marvel 38 metal Brook Lane uh Norton uh just a uh a few comments here uh so since the uh last last time we were in there uh to talk about this um we never heard in that meeting one time that this was an educational facility uh so it seems like they found a work around to come back again calling an educational facility through this uh do act or whatever it's called um so we still oppose it um I think it's going to be a mess at the end of our road metal Brook Lane is a private way it's going to have an effect on our private way um the congesting there and how they might change the um end of our world again it's a private way uh the a butter across the street poy line comes right across the end of that road so they're going to be doing work on someone else's land actually uh because the the the road is not laid outbound or anything like that so we're concerned with that with the changes that might happen there uh and all the other reasons we don't need to go through again you heard them the first meeting uh when it was turned down so again we're we are opposed to this especially where you know is under a uh special permit we don't think it should be allowed uh in our Zone and we have we have a lot of concerns you heard them before I won't go through it all again so thank you thank you sir and if you could just if you don't mind lowering your virtual hand there in the meeting that will save the small o small to medium OCD part of my brain thank you I big go see good okay and I'll turn around again anybody else here in the meeting okay uh any members of the board have additional questions for Mr Canon or anybody else from Amigo here I believe it it came back kidding okay any questions for the applicant here okay so if we are not able if we don't have any additional questions for the applicant uh Mr I'm just coming back up I'm going to go into my Tim yes I just there was one other issue I didn't know if the board wanted to discuss with the applicant obviously the planning board's not going to decide property disputes but there is this adverse possession issue out there and I don't know and if the board wants to discuss I mean obviously this application is for this property as it's currently constituted sure I'm not familiar enough with what's in dispute to know if depending on the outcome of that case it's going to potentially create other zoning issues for where this building is cited I don't know if that's something you want to ask about or account for but it was mentioned so I did want to yes this has been this was discussed a prior session uh it would if depending on the outcome I believe it could change the site plan that is presented to us because there'd be a smaller site and then probably be changes required in terms of setbacks and etc etc um my understanding is that the building Comm because the case has already been filed the Building Commissioner wouldn't necessarily proceed on a a permit where the land under it was in dispute so I was viewing any action that we take would be obviously wait for any of the other adjudication to be finalized before anything actually broke so and if that may not necessarily be the case okay and so you know you may just want to account in the decision to be clear that if this is approved it's for this lot is constituted and that if the lot changes as a result of that case that it's going to potentially require a return trip to this board and any other zoning relief that is needed as a consequence I think it's just fair to put everyone on notice so there's no confusion about it later and that can just be incorporated you know language that effect that can be incorporated in the decision but I you know I think it's in everyone's best interest to be clear about that up front yeah I I think that we've been clear about that in discussions with the applicant and they know that yeah if I may Mr CH I think perfectly reasonable thank you so um so Mr K the if the board has no further questions for your team I think the question that I have to you is if there is anything else that you would like us if you are before other boards if there is anything else that you would like us to wait on prior to closing the public Hearing in any in any way no Mr chairman thank you very much for the opportunity to come back on the remid thank you for the time last meeting this meeting to listen to have to say to review the materials and we appreciate this opportunity okay thank you a motion to close the public hearing for special permit 20946 second we have a motion in a second to close the public hearing is there any further discussion Rob Rob was the second okay you were the second right yeah okay all in favor of closing the public hearing please say I I I'll oppose exensions okay so the public hearing is now closed so we will not take into account any additional evidence from the applicant or any other parties um are members amendable to move forward with a decision related to this application at this time related to the special permit requested or would you like to do that at a later session before I make a motion to approve um I'm going to do our standing conditions and working on language as Town Council is just specifying something such as if the lot size is changed in future modif in the future modifications to the site or special permit modifications may be required does that make sense um I can say perit is granted based on the site constituted in the attached site plan which I assume would be attached changes to the site plan which affect setbacks or other zoning regulations may require the applicant to reappear effect relevant boards for approvals also want condition no parking on that yeah that one has to be there concerned that parking doesn't look adequate to me to be honest because there's no residents who actually have vehicles it's yeah I know yeah but I was looking at a shift change they're saying like people have to move out of spaces let the other people Park they'll be jocking the cars I I in my opinion things like that break down over time they have stated it is sufficient parking I age needs I agree and it meets the zoning requirements and then they can put vehicles on the grass they were saying that they put the bus over on the grass or just on the I think the left side of the driveway but yeah okay are there any additional conditions that we wanted to discuss prior to motions we talked about parking um standard standard construction hours what about the group I believe you were going to include a over yes yep and last meeting somebody had brought up they wanted to be some sort of an alarm of someone's getting out and especially there someone's getting out of that fence an alarm on the gate you know some sort of system will notify people and some when something opens that seemed prudent to me too um it was one sounds beyond that perview to me it was just something that the butters were asking for in the last meeting written down what they wanted yeah and they wanted group meetings not to take place there at all yeah I think that was something that the applicant had said they didn't plan to have because they don't have the bigger building there and they have the facility in Al by Stop and Shop correct so there should be a problem putting that in then you get into what is a group meeting suddenly there's a problem putting that in okay I don't know it's we've already stated they're going to park everybody there so if they're creating a situation they can't a question we can go on yeah is there anything else that we wanted to include is potential conditions okay a motion to approve special permit 20946 with our standard conditions and also that this is a Dober Amendment use second condition being no parking on mle Brook Lane and third using the Lang as we've discussed if the lot size is changed in the future modifications to the special permit may be required okay we have a motion second and we have a second thank you Eric Tim I'm sorry could you could you just repeat the conditions it's a little bit hard to hear out on the zoom sure the first condition was the Dober condition second was no parking on meow Brook Lane which is the private way directly adjacent to the property and the third was related speaking to your wording related to the um adverse possession case related to a portion of the site and was there just a fourth with your standard construction conditions yes and yeah standard conditions yeah okay so we have a motion in a second is there any further discussion on the motion and the motion is is in the affirmative correct correct okay okay hearing no further discussion um all in favor please say I all opposed I two opposed Steve St Rob any extensions okay so the vote is five to two so the motion passes for the special um so we'll work on a written decision and we'll have that to review at our next session thank you very much everybody who attended both virtually and in person and we'll move on to the next item on our agenda this evening Robin I believe you are good to go thank you all right thank you Paul connect with you later have a good night everyone you too good night okay next next item on our agenda this evening is 360 southwester Street uh this is again a continuation from a prior session um so updates since our last session which was I think about a month ago for this project um I think I need to recuse we have two people who need to recuse yes so Alan you're recusing as well yes okay um so Paul has included a letter from the Foxboro Town manager basically saying that they haven't had any issues with the uh the applicant in Foxboro um and I believe uh earlier this week we did receive the traffic study um which highlighted speeds traveled on around the site and stated that the sight lines provided to the site based on the speed were adequate so Al didn't mean to steal your thunder here but if there's anything else if you'd like to just introduce yourself again and providing additional updates for the board sure Michael Tor from civil environmental Consultants on behalf of the applicant so again as a refresher talking about 360 South Worcester Street proposed Warehouse use for a moving company so it's a low impact kind of industrial use on the property so as you mentioned we did provide speed study we did it on two locations on South Worcester Street kind of focusing around Home Market food so one sh different document yeah different screen there it goes so one spot was right on that blue dot and one's over in the other blue dot yeah correct so we focus on two either sides of Home Market Foods mainly for the focus of a majority of the trucks p on Home Market Foods ideally should be turning left so we want to get either side of that situation so based off of what we received in the speed study about the 85th percentile of what's driving down the road is about 40 mes an hour that's about 5 miles over the posted speed limit so it's not it's as everyone expect it's above what's posted but it's not crazy above what's expected so there are certain and there's 15% of people who are going above 3940 correct which is also a problem correct but so based off that we did run the site line analysis as you mentioned so we did the analysis not only for the posted speed limit but also that 85th percenti number both values the higher value G percentile we required a sight line distance around I believe it was 490 ft we exceed that we have sight lines over 500 ft on this project so and then following up on question from one of the board members at the last meeting though has materials Yin not point on storing hazardous materials on site um taking me back just to the the Seline question do you have any proposed plantings that are in in or near the sight lines there are plantings proposed towards the front they're red maple trees so you'd be looking under the candy um am I I'm assuming that you're amenable to a condition that would require regular trimming of any vegetation to within the um within the side would we call the side triangles yes okay do we have additional questions for the applicant here based on the materials from the last session or the materials that they provided in preparation for this evening session yeah um I don't know if this is in our purview to require or request or if you're willing to amend to it um would you be willing to put like Rumble bumps a speed bump Rumble strip sort of thing on across the road to prevent cars from speeding uh on South wer Street yeah I don't think that would be a town question I have a hard time thinking that they would do that the residents would have an opinion okay no I don't I don't think that would I don't think that I think that the I won't speak for all of the abuts but I think the challenge is that it's a relatively narrow road with with this with the Home Market Foods there a relatively high volume of bigger truck traffic and those two together tend to not play well although I have to admit the speed came in significantly lower than I expected it to yeah the 85% of I think that 15 percentile the 15% of people who are driving on the road Road are not uh it's not a normal distribution that my feelings that there's 85% of people who are 40 and even though it's a 35 Zone and then there's other people who it's probably not a lot of 45 that's probably up in the 50s and higher after that yeah I I was expecting it to come in significantly higher yeah week I'm disappointed Rob just uh I know you're trying but uh because you confused yourself I'll ask you to just wait I know I'm public now no if you're going to be public then you have to come up and speak so we're going to okay um okay additional questions for the applicant yes please and thank you are you done I'm sorry I got one more but you no go ahead um uh additionally uh there's a massive wetlands area in the back that you're not going to be using um it it goes up to a parcel of land owned by Massachusetts it connects to our waterways a few Trail heads and would you be willing to put a public access over the area outside of your facility I would have to talk with the applicant about that one so as of right now he's not proposing anything outside of this but I'd have to speak to them on something like that is there outside of Public Access is there a proposal in any way for conservation restriction on the rest of the land or not moment no okay and whether there's six different flavors com SP restrictions so I'm okay all right um did we determine where the trucks are going to be registered please um I'd have to confirm with the out I don't have that answer ideally they'd be registered with the property but I don't have that confirmation okay I believe we did ask for that in the last session um can you remind us if this is a relocation or an expansion of your existing facility this is planed to be a relocation okay and I'm not asking specifically why this site but why Norton I don't specifically have that answer from the applicant but this is the location they had chosen okay did concom Issue their order of conditions as expected yes and did we determine somebody had a question about what the breakdown of the percentages of moving versus storage did we get that it's a varying number there's not a fixed percentage majority is pure moving okay so there's not a fixed number to that uh the only other question I had and it's actually more for the planner please um I did not realize there is a another IND it's small but there's an industrial use in between these two properties 370 southwester uh when I searched it looks like there's two different businesses running on there do we get similar complaints from Neighbors about them as we do for whole Market Foods um my recollection from our when we met a month ago it was primarily Home Market I don't recall hearing anything and I I don't call hearing anything at Town Hall but again I'm not the health agent deals with that but certainly we hear the concerns about Home Market okay yeah I didn't even realize happen to look at something and said there's another property there oh yeah um so I'm kind of hoping to be able to Pro get offens by it yeah that there's the capability of being a perfectly good neighbor on that stretch is what I'm hoping to I understand that process um I was very surprised at the this isn't a question it's more of a comment that the um you can see a very marked difference in the number of automobiles along the front of this particular location versus Home Market Foods the the difference between West haning de Gaffney versus Woodward is significantly different it's 212 cars going past one market Foods on any given day they're not supposed to go down Woodward they're supposed to go down and then over yeah this is on South Worcester specifically but if you look at the Woodward the one up to the left supposed to go that way yeah table one in the data summary it was marked marked difference in yeah and it's spe you can tell it's specifically driven by Home Market Foods so when the abutters say it's 200 trucks daily they are not even slightly exaggerating yeah in theory they should go out the site go down to um John Scott not to 140 yeah so so you know while I'm I'm very I am very sympathetic to the neighbors and their complaints and I we've been hearing about issues with Home Market foods for quite a while um I I I do kind of feel the project is being viewed through the lens of Home Market foods which probably is not fair they could end up being a very quiet exemplary neighbor and they we can never know until we I know I I not saying anything to yeah yes so yes you can never know one way is an entirely different line of business it is okay so um Paul if you don't mind just to speak to this again I know we touched on it a little bit in the last session but the applicant is presenting in industrial Zone as kind of as of right use and the relief that they're seeking for the special permit is tied just to the size of the building and the property and the parking repart correct correct and there's also a waiver on a a driveway one of the driveways but right there's you're you will eventually vote on those three so the special permit for a building over 10,000 square ft site plan over 2500 than the waiver on the industrial driveway width for the employee parking lot and in terms of we dealt with this a little bit with some of the other applications that we've seen recently but from an as of right use perspective the board should be looking at are there aspects of the application the board should be looking at specifically in terms of granting this relief given that it's an asate use well certainly and and some of the issues like what we hear with um you know with with Home Market and some other uh similar uses around the town truck traff traffic in the locations you do have the ability to require signage to say whether the trucks can turn left or right or that's they can only turn that way and direct them just like we have with a later uh item today Main Street you had directed us to provide a specific route to get them to a major roadway and minimize the number of residences that they can pass by you can do that here too so those are things that you can factor in um I know one of the concerns that the neighbors have of the noise a lot of that from Home Market comes from you know rooftop Refrigeration units and trucks and whatnot but I think the African at their last meeting addressed that um and that may be something it's a condition could put in I think they said that it would be like air conditioning for the office space generally and the off our of operation that we had stated in the last session were relatively consistent with I want to call them standard office hours with buet an extension um so that would be and they weren't going to have any refrigerated trucks correct they might be moving somebody excuse me we may want to we may want to find out whether they require why are they're going to Pro be providing any climate controlled storage they said they were no they said they weren't last session okay would not what I took away from the last session is the only compressor and hbac unit would be for the office space in the building only okay do we have any additional questions for the applicant at this time I know you had a couple that were still a little bit pending but any additional questions that they can answer okay I'll again say if there's anybody who's joining the meeting virtually I ask you please use the reactions function in the zoom meeting to raise your virtual hand uh and I'll turn around to see if anybody's here in person would like to speak as well yes much just come up to the podium and this will be just a retouch on the question I asked just state your name and address for the record Rob WS 341 southwester Street um this would be just to re redress keep it on the table the question I had last week uh or last meeting excuse me about the uh flood plane whether they're filling in any of that and is that low area that serves as kind of the catch Bas for the neighborhood um it's about question it's not necessarily show suffer I don't know that they are it it's close I've gone over there and iol it I just want to make sure they're not filling any of that in they've got new other conditions from conservation okay but that stuff goes through all the storm water goes through all that stuff yeah so but I'm asking a specific question understand are they planing filling any of that in uh last meeting they said that they didn't believe they were correct um no it wasn't they weren't sure they we talked about possibly the meeting out there I'd show you exactly what I was po to saying and I'm not sure they are that's why I'm posing as a question to which of a challenge but I do want to get answer okay thank you okay I'll do one more come back up so I see somebody in the virtual meeting Dom and Sue I'm not sure who's looking to speak but if you can just unmute and then state your name and address please for the record yeah hello um yeah we both want to speak first 361 southwester Street to be right directly across um I know it said you guys said the speed studies or something was done down by whole FBS now that's not capturing anything coming in from the other side you got box trucks already flying down in town I'm not sure if they go on Frost king or Whole Foods or wherever but at this moment we already have trucks flying from our end around a real tight bin I no it's going to be down done on that end of the street that's going to stop that yeah they put two speed speed sensor strips down uh basically at both ends of the Home Market food site to get people going in each direction right but that's not on the other end of Southwest street down near Parker not near Parker no yeah that's where there's a lot of trucks coming in from that direction and I know I don't know whose trucks they are but I know when this guy come this building comes in they're going to do the same thing no matter what laws you put them truckers are going to go where they want to go they always do so um I just want to make sure you're aware that and uh I haven't heard anything discussed about you said something about the in the street but there was a lot of concerns about kids and people walking their dogs up down the street it seems like nothing's going to be done about that with just um just going to deal with it great I we understand that it's a narrow road and people do walk on it um we had a similar project a couple of years ago on Hill Street where it was a relatively narrow road but it was an industrial use and an industrial Zone um yeah we had similar discussions um ultimately it our board can't tell the town make the road wider great is there anything that could we've done once um the business goes in that maybe there could be a cop posted for a week or two weeks just a watch which trade of the trucks go you're um the the question was um if there would be the potential for um potential police monitoring of traffic patterns after the site went live to correct right correct just to uh provide some positive reinforcement yes okay um that's that's something that we could bring up to the police department um I'm not sure if they would be able to necessarily dedicate somebody to it um but we've talked about travel patterns entering and exiting the site and that's something that we can condition with the building permit itself um so if they don't follow the conditions of the building permit then their permit isn't valid and they're in big trouble okay all right um go ahead s this my wife s hi I'm Su R Mo same dress um I had um um we had attended virtually the last meeting you had um May 21st I believe and um during that time someone got up and spoke about a memo dated May 8th that was from Mr Paul D jeppi to the planning board regarding um the special permit criteria that's to be met for this project and I had um email um on June 8th I emailed Brian carmichel um and received a vacation response um and then emailed Mr Paul dppi um that in my opinion the criteria for this special permit have not been met this I don't see how this project is going to improve our neighborhood I think it's going to cause more problems than we already have with the traffic the noise the the truck beeping the personal safety issues ETC it's just and especially because yes we are we live across the street from this perspective site uh so I guess I I'm just saying I don't see how the that the uh special permit criteria has been met but uh is that being approved though we have not voted on anything yet those are the conditions that the board looks at with every special permit decision okay and I just um I've seen on the documents um for this project online that are available to other residents in thearters um I would just request is my email been added to this as other abutters emails have been added to the project I can confirm I saw it yes I put everyone everys thank you thank you I appreciate it thank you okay turn around again is there anybody okay I don't see anybody else in person who's looking to come up and speak um so just if I may we did just confirmation from the out and trucks will be registered in town just confirm that thank you um in relation to the the ab Butter's question about the fill in that area that we discussed in the last session we're not filling anything in the lower bowl we're working essentially up on that Hill that's existing like that thank you thank you okay do we actually have five eligible members to vote yeah we got Steve's fig how toise my hand just confirming you probably took the option away I do see uh are you looking to speak now miss Blanchett are you looking to speak I am thank you if you'd like to state your name and address for the record please she muted looks like you muted yourself again so I'll give you a minute and ramble to myself here sorry about that can you hear me now yes we can thank you thank you my name is Jessica Blanchett I live at 357 southwester Street um I just had a couple of comments um regarding the traffic study um it was noted that the uh speed monitor at the Gaffney Farm ends of Home Foods um that is actually in the breaking zone of people entering so that would actually not monitor the speed very well um just thought I'd throw that out there it also is not capturing the people from Thermo King that do take a right out of the parking lot and come down the other end of selfless Street um my second comment is and this is just clarification for me but I I seem to notice that it doesn't appear that the actual applicant for this Pro um permit is the owner of the land could that be confirmed um I can ask the applicant I'm that's generally not something that I would we generally repres we can often represent see applicants who are representing properties that they are in an agreement to lease or purchase but that transaction not been completed yet or etc etc um so okay I just noticed that the land card um said that it was owned by a rhino Capital um which actually also owns the Thermo King and dataco building at 378 southwester Street yeah understood thank you um and just one more quick note on that according to their website they actually have two lots in the Taunton industrial park that are already permitted for warehouse um so it seems to me that there would actually be a reasonable alternative to their accomplish their process especially if they don't actually own the land yet this is where the applicant has chosen to submit an application obviously I would gen my view on that which is my own opinion is that they would generally if they wanted to go in the industrial park on mil Standish and they felt that that was their best option they would have done that obviously they feel that going through this process with the town of Norton is what they feel is their best best choice B on every other factor that they've looked at so all right thank you for your time thank you okay anybody else would like to additional questions for the applicant at this time um yeah yeah just to reiterate uh and I don't know if you know it's kind of up in the air random question you're not prepared for yet um the easement it's 30 acres of land and one of our major goals in town is to have access to our waterways it's a big project that's going on right now and that would be something that might push the project to be more beneficial than not that's something I don't have an answer to i' have to speak thank you okay you have additional questions for the applicant at this time I do see the hand up there one second um so if we don't have any questions we have a couple of questions that they've stated they would need to check with the applicant on um are you let's see speaking for Steve is this something where you would like an answer prior to Us closing the public hearing uh I'm okay cling the public hearing if we close the public hearing we can't get an answer from him prior to okay well then well then no okay so um so with that in mind um to get that answer in terms of how we would proceed in terms of either Public Access or conservation or whatever would happen with the rest of the Wetland property that you're not using um we would potentially be looking to continue to a future meeting like that okay um can I maybe provide some context for that sure uh sure uh uh members of the board Carlos still to civil enironmental consultant work with Mike uh I would offer the that I think we would be open to a condition that uh allows the applicant to explore the opportunity for easement or access I think an informal access you know we can't do anything in the rear portion of the property it's all conservation land anyway uh so I think the functional use of that space I think they would certainly be open with but restricting uh and adding encumbrances onto the property with formal easements and conservation restrictions I think would be a hard thing to agree to uh just because of the nature of the propert proper we can't do anything out there anyway uh so to the extent that people might walk their dogs or do whatever they do out there informally I think that would be certainly something that uh the applicant would be okay with and if there were a condition that uh offered the exploration of that whether it's working with the town in some sort of way I think we could do that but to condition the project require a formal easement uh I don't know if the applicant would be going to entertain that thank you does that provide the clarity that you were looking for I suppose so okay um so the open question I think Laura was what was the other open question that you had that we weren't sure that they had I know we had the registration was confirmed moving versus storage but it varied um just the why Norton in general why why leaving Foxboro just that's more of a rhetorical yeah it you know given the prime location to Highway access it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense but maybe there's some compelling reason that would it sway me probably not okay it more of a morbid curiosity okay so okay so it seems like we have satisfied all of our questions to this point to the degree that we can um I did see one additional question for a member of the public so ask um you welome and you can state your name and address yep robw 341 southwester Street Norton Massachusetts it's Norton um and this might be what if we're talking about an easement you know this would be allowing some additional parking for people to cut Drive in there put their cars and then go walk in the area is that kind of what you were thinking at the very least open to pedestrian activity within that space um as far as putting an access road or something that that's not a requirement I'm asking okay cuz um and I'm sorry to say this I I'm going to comment as a from a resident's point of view the people living there I I'm not sure we would like that too much and then also let people walk down those woods I don't think it's a great idea at all it is Wetlands when it's supposed to be and um I hike there a lot it's not well Tim could I make I think that what the applicant is represented is informal yeah pedestrian light recreation use isn't something they're going to care about that's basically the limit of and if they want to explore some kind of okay agreement with the town on that since it borders a town site that's pretty much the limit of so let me shorten you don't have to answer my questions that from a resident point of view I don't think we'd be crazy about inviting that you know that is a such a place for that if I may also you did just say that you personally hike in there and at a previous meeting you said when it was flooded you brought your kayak out there yes I did so as a resident you want to use it but not provide access oh no they can there are ways to get in there certainly that's how I do but it's illegal if they don't have permission if you haven't gotten permission you TR but that's why yeah you okay but guess I have done those things no we can put those points on the thing I have done those things so we have initial questions for the applicant at this time otherwise I'd ask the applicant if there's anything else that they would like to present ask questions ask clarifications prior to entertaining any motions posos in the public he no I think everything's been addressed any else from the members of the board okay motion to close the public hearing second and we have a motion and a second to close the public hearing again this is just a motion to close the hearing any further discussion on the motion okay all voting members please signify by saying I I all opposed extensions okay the public hearing is closed we not hear any further Evidence or testimony related to the application is there anything else that are we proceed to prepared to proceed with a vote on the application itself at this time we prefer to table that to a future discussion I'm ready to move forward I'm okay good anybody like to make a motion moved and we're looking to move with conditions number the condition standard conditions um other conditions that we discussed included um no refrigerated Storage hours of operation which we did discussed in detail at the last session um requesting the trucks turn left exiting the site to go towards 140 forur that would it be worth commission signage to do the I believe they had that in the site plan but yes any other conditions that we wanted to include trimming of within the site triangles thank you and the condition related to uh oh we also wanted to do idling that came up last week no idling yes no idling um and the conservation potential informal uh Recreation discussions with the town to be explored appreciate that okay is there are there any other conditions obviously that was notable okay Jim does your motion Still Still yes okay and did we have a second second okay is there any further discussion on the motion to approve with all the stated conditions okay given that we have two members refusing I'm just going to go and do roll call here just to make it clear Eric I'll start with you yes Jim yes Steve yes Laura yes and I will vote Yes as well so approved with multiple conditions um and again per procedure we'll go through that and all we can that's definitely what we want to look at at a future okay thank you all for everybody still have to vote on the site plan and the waiver okay thank you Paul so we have additional motions required for the waiver for the driveway correct yes and the site plan so moved on which one the site plan and the waiver for the driveway we should do those separately should we we should probably start with the site okay so that'll make motion to approve site plan and I've lost the number now as I had okay so motion approve the site plan yes motion okay second oops Yeah Motion in a second okay sorry who second Eric again ER okay sorry they're both right next to each other so much okay uh with this one I'll just do everybody all in favor all opposed exensions okay 5 Z and the waiver on the driveway motion approve the associated waiver seconded flip flop on that one all in favor please say I I all opposed exensions 5 so next item on our agenda is waving River Estates this is zero and 108 South ler Street this is a modified special permanent site plan um so this is I'll give a little bit of a background and then I'll give Paul the opportunity to weigh in here so this is a subdivision I'm going to call it a subdivision which is um off of the other end of Southwest street across from um CPS basically or CPS is that the AC yeah um back in the in the woods there uh it's a site that's gone through a number of different rounds of permits over its history uh some of them been approved some of them have died on the vine um this is one that was initially approved right before Co and then we extended it after Co because shockingly Co made everything stop for a while uh so the amount of time on their permit ran out so they presented they are now presenting a modified special permit to us Tim can you remind me or actually Paul won't be able to because you weren't here we had a discussion with them back in July of last year we did this is the culmination of that discussion I think the discussion that we had at the previous session I want to say last last year was they presented a a draft version of the new plan and we gave them the directional feedback that this would be a not a minor modification to their approved permit okay and it would be a major modification which is why it's here got it another quick question it it does appear to be close to the same plan that we looked at last July is that accurate I will let the applicant speak to that if I may Mr chairman we can do our presentation it would probably answer a lot of the questions that the members are having please go please go ahead Mr D good evening everyone I'm Brian dun with MBL Land Development and permiting with offic is at 5 Bristol Drive in South eastn Mass I am the principal of the firm I'm here on behalf of Scott and J Jon stormo who are the owners of the property uh as you as you may remember uh we are back in 2020 he permitted a special permit site plan under uh I think it's called chapter or section 19 of your bylaw which has a a special permit site plan approval process with a affordable component of attached to it so we originally got an approval from this uh honorable board we also got a uh conservation uh commission order of conditions which was also extended uh at the same time that we were back in front of you about a year ago uh discussing this plan amount so what we've come up with um is a revised plan same amount of units it's a a reduction in the limit of work it's a reduction in the clearing it still complies with all of the storm water rules and regulations it also uh still has the four affordable units Associated uh with the project as part of that special permit original approval and um and I'd like to be able to share the screen to go over some of these details if I manage to CH you should have the ability if you don't let me know and I'll try and figure out what button I need to press here there you go okay so can we see all of this stuff yes we do thank you okay very good so here is the uh the site on waiting River uh which is called waiting River and you we correct there was a a bunch of different proposals originally was originally a subdivision uh it was called U Strawberry Fields it was a 40b subdivision which uh can't remember all the details off of my head of why it was I think it was appealed it was approved and it was appealed and so on and so for so that was I think it was 130 homes that were going here originally with um you know alteration of even down in this area along the river uh to put uh those hones and uh what we did was we came up with a a different plan and this was the plan that was originally approved of one of them as you can see and um that was 37 units and you can see the uh area of the the units and the parking in the back and a lot of pavement around here and a lot of visitor parking and this was a community septic system and a lot of pavement coming around here and so so on and so forth and the limit of work and then this is really the revised plan as you can see we're not we're not bringing pavement all the way around this way anymore the drainage basin stays the same and uh these are the details of these uh differences so on the uh the original plans in the 2022 plans that were originally um approved were five six family condos and two triplexes uh 37 units including the existing home out front if you may remember we're still utilizing that existing home as part of this project there was roughly about about 182,183 3,156 ft of alteration Riverfront area was was around 6700 Square ft and then we had a turtle nesting area that was being preserved as part of the project that was part of the recommendations of the conservation commissioner agent at the time and the length of the roadway for the site plan approval was at 1,900 ft in the proposed conditions were at 12 Bri flexes still staying at 37 units and including the existing house a reduction of over 100,000 square ft of impervious area the limit of work is is uh reduced to 3 89,000 Square ft of clearance the riverfront uh area of alteration almost cut in half we have expanded uh the turtle nesting area almost two times a little bit more than two times and the length of roadway has been reduced from the 1900 linear feet of roadway to 971 uh L a ft of roadway we have a 47% increase in open space and landscaping area and less impervious area proposed uh with this new plan within the 100t buffer zone this plan here uh shows you uh in in purple the limit of work in this area here oops sorry I clicked the wrong button uh you can see the limit of work around our base uh there's a big Mound here on the site you can see the the Contours and there's a path that's through the site here uh we walked this with the Conservation Commission last Friday this is the red line is the 25 foot no touch Zone which were uh which we originally uh proposed uh no alteration and and in the new side plan you'll see the same and this is the 100 foot buffer zone the yellow and the brown is the river front so you can see the vast area of clearing for this project on the new plan and we gave you a legend here where the boundaries of the watland are in green in maroon color is the 25 ft no touch uh the red line is the originally proved limit of work and then the green line is the new one uh so you can see that the limit of work is coming in uh a lot especially in this area here uh on the site and and over here in various little areas over here the turtle nesting area that's in this purple area is the expanded area that I just talked about and this plant here gives you an idea of where the Basin is uh to the to the site and the buffer zones you can see the limited clearing the new fre line here and where the triplexes are and you can see how much of this has been reduced from the the other other plan that was approved by this honorable Bo and then this is more of a detailed plan of our grading and our drainage uh redesign and then the turtle nesting area is here and um I can actually say that I did witness um shells turtle shells and found a painted turtle walking around this area when we did the sidewalk it's not an indent species but we're we're still you know holding a a nice area for the animals to come and uh be able to nest and have a habitat uh the earth works that we proposed is over a 20% reduction in earthw work material as you as you can see the differences uh in the site where the cuts and fills are so we're at I think why I said 20% it's 25% of the fill needed so it's a reduction and then these are the a scenario of what the triplexes are going to look like uh on on this site originally we had you know some duplexes squads and six units with um you know garages in the back and garage under uh this allows for a one garage and uh you know additional parking in front of the garage as well for these units so that kind of is the the revisions to the plans and the request for the plan Amendment we were in front of the Conservation Commission uh last evening and that honorable board uh continued us to July 8th so that we can address the peer review comments which total 10 fers which were very very minor in nature and very very di Minimus to the impact of the of the of the site plane and the drainage now they really relate to some TSS removal calculations and providing them as well as some you know changes in some of the elevations uh within hundreds of a foot uh that was requested of US during that meeting however the the conservation is commission uh would like us to address those 10 comments see the revised plans have the appear review consultant verify that we have done what we've been asked to do which I'm sure that we will be able to Prevail and and show that information on our revised plans and and ultimately get an amendment to the order of conditions that was already issue uh Mr chairman thank um I know we spent a lot of time looking looking at storm water in the initial application specifically as it relates to drainage uh I am terrible with specifically to the west of the site or the southwest of the site cuz the site is a high water no worries the site's kind of a high point in the area and I know the site to the left to the Southwest already has a decent amount of flood on a regular basis so even with the storm water regulations kind of you retain the amount that you're retaining already want to make sure that the amount that you that where you're retaining it on the site isn't lopsided does that make sense Mr CH if I can answer that Mr chairman so if if you may may remember we had an extensive uh drainage review by the uh Town's consultant at the time Mr John cheshier and uh and as you can see the northwest of the site is going to be untouched uh this that's the area that you were are concerned about over here this is our limit of work we're not proposing anything over here all of our drainage has been designed to flow to this Basin over here and also to uh uh uh underground system at the front of the house on the at the front area of the house the exist house to control the storm water runoff of the the access road to the property that has been extensively peer reviewed and uh John cheshier is a very very detailed engineer yes he is and we and we were able to address his comments and prove to him that this drainage design works and is in compliance with the storm water rules and regulations of the state d as well as the towns you're with the peer review consultant for the Conservation Commission is now Mr Mr Brennan and he also uh reviewed our new stuff as as well and came back with 10 comments so and he actually said in his letter that we would this is a a reduction in an impervious area and if the storm water complies with the rules and regulations so we wouldn't have gotten a letter like that only 10 comments if we were not controlling the runoff adequately to the standards of the engineering standards as well as the D standards and the eoms thank you you're welcome okay so I think I think Mr John I think I'm the only member of the board who was here for the initial application so uh I will turn to the other members here if they have any additional questions about the project itself um and everything else Associated to dive into this here see Catch Basin right by the river I'm sorry I didn't make that I was broken up the question is is the catch Basin up the catch Basin is up in the north of the site by the river is that correct uh to the north of the site so if you go back to this plant here so this is North so our drainage basin is is over here in the site which you can see in my mouse okay that answers the question thanks you're very welcome and Paul is there anything that you wanted to State just from your perspective in terms of uh looking at the original application and everything else in the process Associated but no it's it's Brian has already gone through it but one thing I I do need to point out and and this was a I have have apologized to the applicant and apologizing to the board we had a glitch with open goov um we didn't realize that it didn't release or Prov allow our department reviewers until late last week to actually review it that's on me again I'm sorry I should have I should have seen it um anyway but there was a comment by the conserv I mean by the health agent uh that was posted last week about um that there was when the original plan came in there they had had a peer review done on the septic system he's asking for another here okay yeah and that's and and that's not a that's not a problem we understood that and actually we actually took some of the recommendations of the peer review and the Board of Health agent in this new design where originally the septic system design and the unit design was under a pressure system and now we're able to design it in a way since we don't have these big walkouts in the back and the grading changes we're we're able to design it uh so it's a gravity system to the field and then dosing so we understand that uh we will be going back to the Board of Health for another permit in a root review of our septic system design and like the first time I'm sure that we will prevail thank you and there other Town departments that haven't checked haven't reviewed yet given the timing um no we had asked for it to be done by today but okay some haven't so fire department still says in progress yeah open up okay so I mean I would like to know that they've at least definitely looked at it I think the issue would be they again I I think this is a a good Improvement for a number of the reasons that mentioned but one of the things we need to get from the fire department is the original design had a loop road which we still have that b you do we have so we don't have a looped road but we have a one one roadway access with a Colac at the end and if I can stop sharing and switch screens hold on for a second okay okay so that's the original uh septic system that was approved as you can see right there and then okay so you can see the roadway coming in with the culdesac here there's plenty of room for for the noron fire truck to access the site and turn around and then we do a fire truck so you can still see that the five is still access to come in turn around at the cuac and then come back out we are still looping the water line like we said in the original design as well so those and then and then if I can uh this gives you an idea of where you know where the affordable units are going to be they're not going to be in one unit they're going to be all over the place so we we still did that as well okay and then I just want to get that back to so you can see the water line looping we got clearing down here so that water line still loops and you can see it right here it's coming in going through the site and then coming back down here uh like we said like we said in the original design there it is again and I see the waterline looping again yeah and I believe one of the original conditions with that finger of land was that once the water line was put in that there was interest from the abuts to purchase the parcel with the easement on it correct that's still that's still on the table yes sir Yeah question quick when you see little finger L you this looks like a second driveway coming out over here yeah it's just grass right now if you go up there it's just a pathway back to the back well you can actually stand here where the path is and see this all the way down to Southwest spe yeah and did I just understand you said that they're talking about letting the that was one of the original requests from the abuts was well we needed to put in the water line in but once the water LS in we don't need it anymore so they were hop to selling it to somebody if that was um something that was of interest to the abutters and something that if it was if it was sold it would probably be an easement afterwards um yeah so we still need the water to pop it look at this even it's changed right it's the water line hasn't changed well location's changed now though uh no no it it's only it's only changed where the roadway yeah uh is missing this Loop was still on the other plans I can show you on the other plans where it is it's it's not me I mean it's I just think any new plan lot of apartment needs to see if if they were on the the open go checklist we and this is more administrative too even though we're supposed to they're supposed to check this it's on the applicant also to see if the fire department didn't see it they know they're coming for a meeting they also need to reach out and say you know it's a lot of this is on the applicant too not just on the town side to defend Paul a little bit it is on the applicant to get everything boxes check that they need to do in front of a meeting it's a team it is a team exactly they both have to do I me Mr chairman this is a new system for the town and for us that's what I just said but it applies to any meeting anywhere say you know was was our understanding that this was a plan Amendment and we were still complying with the fire departments request like we did before and also the water department it's a new plan they still need to look at yes the the the plan has changed but the intent is we still have Public Safety access being provided and we're also providing the water looping that they asked yeah we we understand but it's good I think to Ellen's point it's good practice for us to make sure that town boards are we Town departments are weighing in on whether it's a reapplication or whether it's a new application so um I got a question yes is there guest parking in the neighborhood um it looks like two parking spots at the end of the cite sure um Mr dun can you just pull up the site plan again and if there are any as areas that are set aside for guest parking my memory from four years ago is not is not uh looks like there's 36 more than the 2020 plan but I don't know where they are there was a lot of parking on the other plan but this one it's just okay let me try to answer the question hold on a second so there's no confusion hold on please wrong one sorry so that's the old site yeah too many things opened up Story of My Life yeah okay here we are so we go to the to the parking plan so think the question is we understand that there's a garage for each unit and potential parking in front but outside of that obviously people have people visit them so the guest parking spots are where right so we said here's here's a garage spot one two and another three here so there's actually three spaces that are allowed for each unit so so we're we're allowing we're allowing two spaces per unit plus one visitor space uh which is 111 spaces and originally we were at uh 18 spaces because we didn't have the the spaces for visitors near or next to the units and we had them around that Central Area going around the septic system and it was guest parking you know further away from the units so this allows you know one guest or two guests that there one car per family and so that regulation of two what is it 2.5 cars of 2.7 cars per unit is being addressed so the so the guest parking is within the driveways of each individual unit there is not there are no guest parking spots marked on the plan outside originally they were up in this area here where the where the roadway looped around so we removed that with that extra payment that we were getting rid of okay and then put the put the other cars up up against you know the garage and right behind it so there's plenty of room for the three vehicles if I may with that follow up on that am I to expect that in this community during the holiday seasons that neighborhood is not going to get clustered with cars parked up and down the road everybody's just called to pick one one that's that would potentially be the challenge yes um yeah and what are the I think you know I'd like to hear from Paul because I think that um you know a reduction in parking is is probably an okay thing here is there reduction in units though no it's the same number of units Ru unit the same number of bedrooms too which would affect the same amount of units that was originally approved by this board so the so they meet the zoning require requirements for parking based on the number of bedrooms that's correct but but just nobody could have a trailer or anything in their driveway or like it as soon as anything's in the driveway there's no parking for even one guest or delivery there is there is not extra guest parking associated with any of the site any of the site the amount of deliveries that go through any neighborhood they don't park in driveways anyway they on the side of the road yeah I just noticing a big drop in the available parking without a big drop in the people expected to be there they just accounted for it with three in the driveway yeah I know but I'm having a hard time hearing everybody no I understand no it's it's just discussion that understanding where you have put the parking for each site um and and planning for understanding what will what we think would happen the first time somebody wants to have three friends over um are are they going to park in the street and park in the driveway and then understanding what width of driveway is left for anybody else to go buy it and thinking through that scenario I think is what we're trying to do um and I and I you know I think people are people are they're going to park where they want to park uh you know unfortunately that's that's the human nature uh we we do comply with the zoning with the amount of parking um it was my understanding that a a reduction in parking would be well received uh it sounds like it's not I it's at least under discussion don't take my question is being against it I just was noticing the disparity you know I I'm learn absorbing this the first time and I noticed a droing one thing without a corresponding drop the other yeah because we've got a huge reduction in impervious area we've got a big reduction in the limit of work it's the same amount of units in a small in a smaller area uh we comply with the zoning we comply with the special permit uh regulations while on the affordable section uh it's the same width of the roadway that we had originally approved uh this is not a subdivision it's a site plan this there will be a homeowners association associated with this just like it's before we we did before this is um you know a better plan because we've got different style houses or different style units with the triplexes we don't have garages in the back underneath we have garages up front so it it's it's all overall a much much better plan Paul did you want to speak to the discussion about parking just one bit about the question about uh parking say at the peak like during holidays and this is a question that comes up a lot in retail uh how do you handle parking for the what used to be the big day the day after Thanksgiving and you don't want to build parking to accommodate your that one worst case day because then the rest of the time you're left with EMP a ton of empty spaces so um I I you know they they are meeting and actually exceeding what our parking RS are um and I think that's you know if it's if it's taking away permeable surface that's less drainage problems um I like the smaller blueprint to I think that's good and I understand about rules and all that I'm just looking at real life and to picture how that's going to work in real life I I appreciate the the new blueprint it looks great I like the smaller houses I like the the alignment and everything the only thing that I'm noticing is that there is a lack of a little bit of parking overflow I cannot imagine this many units are not going to have extra guests not during holidays but just regularly at least once a week somebody's going to have two guests and where are they going to park and to I want to know what that on the end of the CAC is is that parking is that a snow thing it's two spaces you said at the end of the cuac where Mr chairman right yes there yeah what dumpster thumpster okay I thought it was the fire department turnaround area also no the fire department turnaround is within the Cesar okay okay didn't you see there were two parking spaces off there too no okay see any so okay have additional questions for the applicant or maybe members of the public or anybody would like me to go to members of the public and they want to speak I got two small things I think the applicant just said this wasn't a special permit but it is a you have a special permit and a site he said if wasn't a subdivision plan okay I heard special per yeah you said special I'm Mr chairman I'm having a hard time hearing everybody's breaking up sorry yes no we're it's uh it may be the internet here at the library but I think it was just a discussion about the specific relief that you're asking for it's a special permit site plan not a subdivision that is correct and it's technically we're asking for an amendment to the already approved decision yes seems like like we talked about before it's not an amendment it's a major modification this is a new plan it's a it's a major modification yes okay I I call it an amendment you guys call it a major modification so we're asking for a major modification the already uh approved uh decision by this board what does that do to the time frame of being able but starting construction and what is it two years special per are good for is that what it is correct which is why they had an extension in 2022 correct but now it's 2024 right and and this is going to extend in another two years correct one yes yes this is that's my question this will extend it another two years because this is a new special reir type right did you have anything and if I made and if I may Mr chairman and Paul can we specifically if you guys vote for this can that updated decision specifically say the date of of the uh um of permit will expire on the decision I think that would be from the date it's filed so we may not know that until until it's we have a standard condition that talks about about that okay and it's typically on the original decision there is no time frame associated with it but we understood it was two two years understood thank you so going back to your question Mr chairman um as far as questions I still need fire department their minimum sign on in my view okay I I would appreciate seeing at least minimum like a gravel area that people could drive into if they're not going to provide parking cuz on a private property most people if they have too many cars they park on the grass and this doesn't look like it has even an area people can go off of a curve into the grass or something I don't mind them parking on the grass but they need to get there I am wondering if there's a middle ground situation on this parking because they've brought it down a ton seems like they took it from something absorbant and way too much Sur it's only the design of the houses because they couldn't put the number of spots the they did bring it down a large number is my point so I'm stay focused on that point yeah and it is a big change and I'm just wondering you know it came down to something where we're kind of going it's kind of tight from something was observing so is there the ground here okay anything further before I ask if there's anybody in the from the public would' like to speak okay uh if you've joined the zoom meeting please try to raise your virtual hand if you'd like to speak otherwise I'll turn around and see if there's anybody here with us at the library would like to come up and speak you want to try logging back into Zoom my battery probably get about half hour uh Virg just 102 South West Street on the direct butter on the uh West Side um was there any consideration given to any buffer for fence or trees or anything so so it's just not right in our face going in CU that whole thing is on the side of our property and right behind it the whole thing is pretty much right on us I believe there's a stretch In My Memory Mr D I believe there's a retaining wall on that Mr who is that a butter and what's their name and where do they live uh Burgess 102 southwester and you live where P he's it's Ed he's right uh to the west of the site the big the big lot to the west and those right here y you live right here yes where my mouse is yep okay so there is uh we do do have clearing up to you know a few feet off the property line there is there is trees over there in the back here yep uh which some of them are yours some of them are uh 108 um and I think we do have a landscaping plan that rain wall kind of makes me think they're going to so they're going to I think that's more in the back I was thinking more in the back so it's my bad so we are planting um uh trees and bushes on this side and this this area here there's no retaining wall yeah that's that's on that's on me that was more in the back I believe is there anything along the road going up to it that Al I'm sorry Mr chairman I'm I'm yeah so it's what what's the question and there are additional plantings that you have right up against the road in front of the existing house correct yes we're proposing plants in front of the house you can see them in Gray and gray black and red and then the other the other trees that we're adding and bushes are in green along that westly uh propy line yeah and the existing house again and is you're looking that for that to remain so yes so the house remains this is the underground infiltration system for the drainage for the front area of the lot of the site and then they'll be grading over here and these plants uh um planted along the the Western Westerly side of the road and those are um they are they are really a juniper type of a a tree and and uh will be green all year long is there a fence with those junipers too is that what that other line is and the the question Mr D is is there an additional is there additional fencing near those plantings or no no there's just the fence there's I'm sorry there's just the the plants there's the property line the plants and then a god rail to protect the vehicles from going over the Curve there is no offense thank you you're welcome do I answer your question yeah if you can just address questions to me they thing that concerns me I'm not an engineer but I know how wet that that you alluded to it earlier it is wet it's wet out back I played out there all my life as a kid out there and I'm sure they're going to have to bring a lot of grade up for those houses and I I still fear for more flooding but I'm glad you guys talked about the parking because I deal with that all the time you know one of the biggest nightmares in town is 274 East M for pcking and you know you know where all the pock is going to go down it's going to that c St that can turn around on and know doesn't matter if it's a holiday or not there's going to be PS here I'm glad you guys who addressing that but where it's in HOA does the town have the authority to enforce ping if they do find out that all this passes and then we do find out they parking all over the cck there's people all the time there it's a nightmare are we able to do anything because it's an HOA and not a Town Road or can they be in order conditions that the people that buy it know you will not par car you have your 2.7 or whatever that means uh in the driver which that means nothing if the guy doesn't pack thing I use as a garage for a uh for storage there not even going to park in the garage but uh I mean I don't know why you take one of the whole buildings out put a parking area there but I know that's not not going to happen but I just that Park is going to be I think that you've there have been more than one member of the board who's identified that and I think it's something that we'll follow up Tim Tim could I ask a question before I talk H during an emergency response how many vehicles will typically show up um you can have uh it can be a ladder or two engines engine and annual so average three three to four so at least three vehicles are going to have to fit through here in an emergency there's anybody blocking this that's usually the auto turn will go on the ladder and then but the yeah if I think the fire department sign off that Al once's mentioned and the idea about guest parking because I do think the path at least resistance for at least anybody who's visiting somebody in the back is going to be to park by the called the sack at least if they don't mind walking if they don't mind if they don't feel like walking then they're just going to go sideways behind their friend's car whether or not they're close enough enough to get out of the road is another question parallel park in the road right basically yeah so I think those are the the multiple if they they park in the driveway well they park in the driveway poorly and they're sticking into the road or they parallel park on the side of the road and cut away the drove and I have one more qu question then when the HOA thing was coming up there does that make anything unenforceable so even if we came to some agreement here about what they were you know no parking and certain things or you know any of those condition we can include conditions to be included in the HOA by they blow it off um then the HOA conditions are part of the permit in theory it's a it's a bit of a daisy chain there but like it's better to prepare ahead of time yes we've had a number of things where we have requested that the HOA documents require maintenance of a certain feature especially if it's drainage related um that needs to be maintained so um that would be something we could consider yes I have another comment if you know um just a more of a notice something I noticed the the former design had a bit of a community vibe to it with a large Park I guess in the center of that of that road ring this seems much more secluded I don't know if there's like supposed to be any above the house the pre-existing house there's a community playground and stuff just the the small area there there's not that big open field in the middle um but the rest of the site is also as it is now so it's wooded yeah um which is a different kind of recreation definitely but there is no big ball field area no so is is there a dedicated open space portion of this lot not in the way that it's set aside as a cluster or anything like that it's just the limit of work and then they're get right up to the wetlands so it's kind of open space by Mr chairman this whole this this whole area here where the setic system is going to go is going to be wide open this is all this is all LOM and seed and grass okay so there will be a big open area I was mistaken thank you okay and then this is the turtle nesting area that remains remains untouched thank you apologies not a problem so on this this parking thing um uh is this also the recommendation of Paul to add more parking i' say we comply with the zoning well it if it satisfies the the the needs of the board let's let's do it okay so that doing that adds to my drainage so I need to know a number of par you from this board tonight CH okay so the number of units is what 37 37 units three bedrooms each right and they are and how many bedrooms per unit or how many bedrooms in total let me hold let me tell you exactly memo in the first phase we have uh we have 48 beds with 19 units and then and then the rest of them so that so that's three two bedrooms 16 three bedrooms which is uh 48 beds and and another six beds 54 beds and then we have the other 18 units of two bedrooms at 36 so we have 19 units in the first phase and 18 units in the second phase total of 37 units which is 648 and 36 if I could I'm just kind of shooting up let's let the you looking for 48 plus 36 so it's so it's so it's 90 bedroom total 90 bedrooms okay so the number that comes into my head is eight eight resp does anybody want to react negatively positively to that number I feel comfortable with that I was thinking just a tiny parking eror where that dumpster are is at the end thinking more four that's pushing I I was thinking honestly a dozen because like a dozen's our thing where if it goes over 12 you have to mark the parking spots if it's less than if it's 12 or under you don't even have to mark them I don't know if that can like qualify as like a part of the open space little parking field thing okay is there a little bit of an area too like see where the road kind of bends looks like right on the inside of that b yeah right there I'm not sure what what is right there right there is L and seed and grass area right now I think that I just want to go to the Landscaping plan just to double check I I think our job is to give Mr Dunn guidance about how we're feeling and I just need to know the number and I can yeah so we have plantings here yeah oh okay beauy this area so can you scan down too please cuz I think there was some confusion about an actual designated community area right here it says lman SE right but go down to the pre-existing house that I thought you also had something there the dog park yeah community recreation the little area that's what I was referring to oh look three on street are those are those spots associated with particular unit there or those no the this is for the mailbox so it allows for three cars to park for the community mail boox okay that's stopping only thank you also a dog park is usually got a lot pooping it's not really a ball playing area no but I can see this area here even the setic system area being plenty of room for perfect football playing soccer playing and baseball okay no I think that good on the parking what I was looking for was down through rather than sticking a little clustr way up at the far end of the street is little Bunches of them that's why I was kind of buying that area on the bend whether you could add you know a little row of spaces along the road there and yeah so some things like that so just a few extra spots for over it I don't I agree we don't want to build for the holiday season you year round or anything but so I had thrown out eight anybody feel that's the wrong number to give Mr dun that I'm very comfortable with 8 through 12 I think that's per I going to say 10 so why don't we go 10 okay so you're hearing another eight here so the the notes that I'm board or somewhere in the 8 10 12 range for parking um and it's hearing so if we can look at building in some some level of guest parking I think that would be beneficial okay and ease some of our concerns about traffic and potential parking issues blocking emergency access so we got three things to do fire department water department add some parking is there any additional questions or comments we have for Mr Dunn at this time yes we have an additional public comment uh so I'll just ask you to take your name and address of the record please and you can address questions to me 118 Southwest dist street thank you I am the L-shaped area on the bottom right hand side thank you where the turtle nesting area has been improved my question is uh to Mr dun to me please sorry anybody um what kind of vegetation and what kind of uh change is going to happen because my area is a hill and it has a um Stone Fence uh stone wall that's been there forever and I just want to make sure that that there's no undermining and having my Hill collapse sure so um what I'll I'll try and answer this Mr dun if I say something wrong you can correct go right ahead if you want to zoom out a little bit there the I I just zoom down to where her stone wall is okay so the the limit of work um is that above you see the dotted area there which is the turtle habitat yeah there's a line going all the way there above it yeah that's the limit of where he's doing any work in this proposal so nothing this are here touched at all okay cuz I've let through the years I've been there since 1972 I've let the trees and the bushes on my part of the property grow in case something happened I didn't want to have them in my backyard the nesting area has improved it which I'm grateful for um I have another question the easement the small easement in between my property uh 112 and I think I think 110 someone mentioned something about the abutters being able to maybe purchase this that was going back to the original discussion four years ago the at the time the abutters wanted to do that yes so the applicant had said once the water pipe the water department wants them to Loop the water line so instead of one pipe going in and one pipe going out they want it to do a loop so once they tie off that loop on South Worcester as long as they have an easement to fix the pipe if they ever need to they don't need that finger of land they're happy to sell it to whoever wants it from the abuts okay and who gets in touch with the abutters I just don't want all of a sudden having someone say it's too late you can't buy it we can we'll have when that time comes we'll have the applicant attorney Dan Vieira be in touch with the the ABS okay yeah all right I guess that is all that I have to say thank you very much thank you and apologize I'm not turning around and seeing you there for a second going to hit you okay so we've given Mr done a few things in terms of homework here um is there anything else that we want to State um prior to continuing as he's been continued with conservation um and we've given him additional things that would potentially complicate those reviews um is there anything else that we want to request of him at this time and if other than what I would look to continue motion continue second okay um so so Mr dun based on the work that you have with us and with consideration um this board has two meetings in July um which I believe are the I am losing track of my mind here 16 the 16th and then don't don't do that because we need you well I believe our meetings are the 16th and the 30th am I correct correct um do you have a preference between the two would you prefer the 30th so that you're further out look at the SWAT watch here 16th of the 30th um I think the 16th might be a tall order um so can we go to the 30th please understood a motion to continue to the 30th Is there any further discussion okay hearing none all in favor of continuing to July the 30th please say I all opposed extensions okay so we are continued to the 30th thank you as always Mr D thank you very much for having me have a great night everybody thank you okay two more item one more item on our agenda tonight which was just the review of Crane Street is that correct okay yes um Paul are you able to log in yet or do we have I know my computer is died Laura do you have the ability to share I what do you need the crane Street decision if we wanted to leave that we do if somebody can send it to me okay um my I should be okay if we do it quick okay I'll ask separately has everybody reviewed the crane Street decision does anybody have any questions is that a no to questions or a no to no question no to questions okay just making sure I have children it was fair you asked your questions and we said no to that's fair yeah that's okay um is there anything else that we did we have questions concerns in terms of what was in the decision or are we fine moving forward okay Paul were there any specific pieces of the decision that you were concerned about or you wanted to make sure that we reviewed I not concerned about but they were some U conditions that are part of the uh Earth removal uh that were listed in the bylaw that I've flagged just so you know where it's coming from but there were a couple of things that we need you to weigh in on okay um like for example uh the bylaw does say that um oh here we go the frequency of of trucks leaving the premises shall be established by the planning board as part of the conditions of the special permit but in no case shall it be greater than one every 3 minutes so that's a limit on how fast a dump how many dump trucks can leave the premises right how often and that's required by us to set by bylaw yes okay so the draft decision has the no greater than three every three minutes right I I would stick with the three minutes might as well let them complete their job as quick as they can okay I don't any objections no okay um next I following your your uh your condition to um direct traffic toward M Standish um I've just put a condition in that says that trucks used to haul material to from the site um must use Crane Hill and milish Boulevard and that signs must be placed at the construction entrances for Lots A and B directing traford drivers to turn right on the Pine Street and on lot D which is on Crane Street that they turn left onto crane to get out to uh Hill and that M Standish go this way to the highway thank you yeah toon uh and then uh there was also you all had asked uh regarding for a condition for street sweeping um there's a street sweeping condition in the order of conditions that I've put in here I guess my question to you all is do you want this uh or trust that it's in the order of conditions either way is fine if it's in the order of conditions I don't think we have to do it twice I mean that has never stopped our our board from duplicating language in in order that's true let's K more trees us wasteful weeks of time I mean um I don't have the objection keeping it in it's five lines of text yeah it's already written and then the last one uh it's regarding I had it in here um I have to find it but for the common driveway what type of material should it be uh um gravel or fully fully paved and I need to F oh U I just put it as shall be pav for the entire length of the driveway the applicant had said they didn't really care one way or the other but you could you could make them PVE it the entire way you could make it a gravel for the common driveway I would think it should just be paved and finished a bunch of ruts are going to cause problems who's going to fix the ruts I I've put I've just drafted it as the I'm sorry are we talking about Construction Construction of the uh the materials used to construct the the common driveway the final driveway construction yeah I thought we were talking about Earth removal special no sorry that this is this was it so paved that why it wouldn't be paved yeah paved absolutely yeah but they're not pushing for gravel a little bit more impervious and I should point out too um regarding the direction of traffic I have asked Chief Clark is actually a requirement in the bylaw I said the police chief has to sign off on it I will follow up with him again and just make sure he's okay with this sending trucks away from people we are talking a lot of trucks 22,000 divided by they were heading a d didn't they say they wanted to go through mil cuz they were heading to D that thought correct they were fine whatever we said okay so is that is that everything yeah except the hours oh also the hours of operation I had you all said use the hours of operations that we use for the pine stre yes for Pine Street so I just pulled it from that the hours of operation for construction and Earth removal activity shall be permitted between the hours of 7:00 a.m. to dusk or 7:00 p.m. which differ is earlier Monday through Friday and Saturday 8: to 4: the hours may be varied with approval from The Building Commissioner at no time will construction activity occur on Sundays and holidays unless approval is granted by The Building Commissioner which that's pretty standard oh um couple other things just to make sure that the applicant should work with the highway shall work with the highway department police department to identify the ations of signs warning drivers of the construction entrances especially with the blind spot on Pine Street um and then uh the for Earth removal it says the special permit for Earth removal shall be issued for an initial period of one year one renewal permit for an earth renewal operation may be issued by the board as an extension of the original permit without a new hearing okay then the last part um is they do prior to uh commencing Earth removal they do need to submit a performance bond to us so they will have to come back for shity and this is straight out of the bylaw okay we didn't discuss that right I we did not but it's a bylaw requirement so yes they didn't ask for any relief for it so it stands and then right and they have to provide as Bill plans and yeah mention that verbally or an email also rather than just in the condition yeah I'll I'll reach out back out to them say just so you know this is in the bylaws I I know I communicated this to them but I'll follow up it it seems like a complicated ownership situation so that makes sense okay so is that all that we had on Crane Street yes okay so that's all the items posted on our agenda um additional things so Paul as of this point we have nothing for our July 16th meeting correct correct uh because the only thing that was continued was till the 30th did you have on top theard I have one yes right but we don't nothing else was continued nothing else was continued so we don't have any new items I mean it's always possible that an anr will come along but so we don't I just me on the board new oh that's that would there's an item uh to present to you but we wouldn't just convene for that okay so potential the next meeting will be cancel Su vacation potential um for our next session on the 30th which we continued waiting River to um I'm also going to um ask that we have a short executive session to discuss conine uh the remand SL appeal for that property um the applicant reached out with a potential additional proposal related to that project so we should be able to discuss it we have had an email with Town Council they are fine with us discussing it amongst ourselves without them so it should be we'll do it at the end of our session we'll say Public public meeting is closed everything shuts down and then we talk for five or 10 minutes and then we all go home don't put a Time FR yeah never say what did we talk about last time madees for okay translation I think I think I'm pretty good on this one so famous so that will be on so we can do that at our next session and we'll do that on the 30th if it is our next session if we do have something on the 16th then I guess we can do it but we will the word that we will pass back to Kine is looks like it will be discussed at the 30th sounds good something else I'm just wondering and maybe Paul or Brian can tell me how to do it if it's possible is there a way prior to Paul's memo or prior to the agenda going out to on open duck up to see when a meeting is scheduled for so if I if we can look ahead you know like if it's a Tuesday before I we have a meeting the following week is there a way to know what's on that next meeting you know what I'm saying we can we can always um send it we've been typically sending out the material and posting the agenda the Thursday Thursday I'm just saying is there we could do it earlier no I'm not saying do it earlier is there a way is there there's no way open that does a is there somewhere in open gu where you put it that we can see it's alternatively exactly we can ask but um as we know right now we don't think I could have easily missed it and I'm not the best computer guy so that's why I was asking I don't know if open go you say like we've scheduled this for the 16th and we could pull up like I'm just wondering scheduled on what date colum in the system not that there's a ton in there right now but one there's more it's not so much posting an agenda it's just seeing is there a this this application will next be heard on what date we're tentatively looking at and then you would just be able to sort by date and say these are the applications on X day exactly that's what you're you're not looking for I'm not looking for any more I'm just is there some way to do that that's already exist yeah we don't know when you put the stuff in open go do you say this will be on this agenda or this date if it's not in there then it's not in there yeah we us we used to with perit eyes is that what I remember it from I remember it you could yeah yeah so that's Yeah question we haven't seen any dates but we can ask we can see we can look at that and see if the workflow can add dates to it yeah that's that's a question yeah am I safe to log off soon um um we don't need why why don't we just wait till we can okay is there anything else to discuss um is the next one chance are the third is it light enough that might be worth talking about uh like October dates and stuff we're here at that point I don't know just a recommendation we can start talking about dates at that point I think future meeting dates is a good thing for the 30th as well okay CU right now we just have the one the one thing yeah so so and there's not there's not a lot in there right there's not a lot of new applications that I've seen right it looks kind of we don't have any we don't have any new applications at this time but um one should be coming this week on Hill Street so that's coming and we may be seeing another one on South Washington soon we've just had some preliminary meetings the one in front of the select board oh the friendly no no not well um there's that one too yes I'm sorry there is that uh that you wouldn't see anyway because that would be a 40b yeah that's why they kept referring to planning board that's why I wasn't sure why yeah no no uh but that town boards don't know what they do so we've had we've had a couple of of preliminary meetings with uh in this case both of them would are in industrial zoning so but yeah there's a proposal for friendly 40b uh that was in front of the select board on Newland Street they didn't take action although there seemed to be relative agreement with it okay if they go forward that goes through zbaa but um that's yeah time problema underst put okay if there's nothing else I'll look for a motion motion to adour second all in favor I oppos exensions thank you very much everybody