everybody so I have another town that I'm uh little bit ahead on uh but we're going down the same road and that's Wakefield I we did the second draft last night and I I thought that it went well what I did was I went section by section and I identified changes in each section and issues there's you know when I go through this the first time make a lot of decisions for you but I always like to Circle back and make sure that I did it right so um and what I did last night in Wakefield was in anticipation of the first stakeholders meeting there which is coming up on June 27th so that's when the second draft is all in um the first you can see a few places where I've just got placeholders in this draft but they're not going to change um and at the stakeholders meeting I like to hand out two-sided uh issue sheet that says minor major major issues in caps minor issues in lower case and you know that's enough for the uninitiated to get a feel for the things we're wrestling with and I thought maybe that would be a good thing to do tonight to walk you through this um we' got we got so much time here in terms of U getting ready for a Springtown meeting I mean it's June 4th so my thinking is that I would go to a second draft relatively quickly we'd have one more meeting uh roughly in the first 10 days of July uh and then we um wave goodbye to each other until after Labor Day uh when we put a third draft together and in the fall we would start thinking about that stakeholders meeting where we invite in people who are um you know developers or lawyers in town who regularly visit your board meetings with applications um other board members trying to get this thing set up with a constituency to move towards town meeting and a placement on the warrant Paul when would we need to get it ready for the spring warrant what like in my town conquered you pretty much need to have everything ready by January one uh well ours would probably be ours would be late January early February because ours we just had our Springtown meeting although it should have been a couple weeks earlier so usually it's mid first or second week of May so usually we have to have the warrant ready you know uh because obviously we have to run this through planning board and so probably by the we should be shooting for the end of January to have it finished and ready to you know uh because we have to notice the public hearing for the planning board and we want to do that month before well like I said that gives us um an ungodly amount of time to keep tweaking it until we get it right so all right so if you'll share screen with me um I've got this thing ready you can you should be able to share okay hang on a second what is yeah I I have the ability to share but you should Mark no no no let me just clean this up I thought I had cleaned it up better than this all right so all right everything but my apologies all right there we go so um again remember that everything yellow is New Black is old strike out means it's headed for the the bin and just taking this a section at a time uh and pausing to an ask or answer questions as we go through the through the 10 sections that we've got to work our way through so a couple of thoughts on this um the the purpose Clause seems appropriately short um just Monday I got a word from the court the appeals court that yet another of my clients who this time developed a permitted a 85,000 foot R&D in Watertown uh were faced with plaintiffs who did not qualified for standing and this purpose Clause was discussed uh a lot in the case Desmond who wrote it for the appeals court justice Desmond said that the purpose Clause is not a source of protected interests which is great because you know I I keep whittling it back I don't want somebody to use these bullets here to say they've got standing beyond what the zoning statute recognizes as a zoning related injury so zoning related injuries under under ordinary case law would be traffic noise lights litter parking um those are the kinds of things that you can complain of and get standing the there's a couple of uh cases that talk about view if this for example were a bullet view as something protected you you can be sure that somebody will eventually find it and claim that they have standing if their view is impeded U privacy is another example of a a locally created interest for standing density is another one um and the last one is diminution of property value the courts have held that you only get to complain about lost value if it's Tethered to another zoning related injury so the traffic sucks my house is worth less money there's a lot of noise my house is worth less money and the more I I've had about 20 cases now in the past two and a half years U by the way we we won the case on Monday um and it's just getting really tiring to see people creating what what amounts to a sham argument that they're injured enough for standing so I I would I'm now urging towns and I urged Wakefield last night to you know Whittle this this is perfectly workable but um I I think I think eventually I'm going to advise towns to put just what you have in this first paragraph uh the purpose of the bylaw is to promote public health safety convenience and the general welfare of the folks who live in Norton period move on nobody's going to search that for standing and um so that's that's probably the main issue with regard to section one I don't think I whittel it back in terms of U what you had what you had before Mark if I could just ask sure yeah there were actually two additional bullet items in the first draft of this section I think I pulled them up okay okay I I just wanted to make sure if that was intentional because we didn't talk about it but if it was in your judgment then I'm fine with it you the the the other major case that probably the most important case of the last five years was decided in February and it's a case from Rochester where uh I think I've told you about it the U was an asphalt plant that wanted to expand and they got sued by their neighbors including a competitor asphalt plant and there were three Appeals all three of them were unsuccessful further appeals up the ladder on all three also unsuccessful and the uh developer who had gotten the permits sued them for basically frivolous complaints and that's always been a dangerous thing to do but the developer was U persistent and won and the case went all the way up to the Supreme judici court and the Supreme Judicial Court pretty much eviscerated the anti-s slap statute for people who just make it up and when they file a complaint you know land use law is all about my experts versus your experts it's not about what you think unless you're a surprise expert sitting on the board um I mean just just the other night I was in Sudbury and they were ignoring their traffic engineer and I said why are we paying for peer review you hired perfectly good experts great experts to help you out and the chairman of the board said oh we're experts too and I was like okay I can't wait to cross-examine you on the witness stand you will be very quickly persuaded that you're not an expert at all but and that's that's kind of where the game falls apart when people think they have special expertise and they don't so this is all of a of a of a consistent theme um your Amendment section is a little bit local and but it looks effective to me so I didn't change it and um so this is you know this is as I've said consistently this is the handshake of the bylaw just get you going um I think you wanted somebody had suggested that we we merge application and interpretation so you can see I just took a sentence out of the one that got deleted and added it to the back end of interpretation in yellow and I added the authority which is chapter 4A itself in article 89 that's the home rule amendment to the Constitution and that's pretty much all there is in section one that's new and noteworthy um if I don't hear a question I'm going to go on to section two has the zoning map been amended since 99 yes yeah a number of times okay um so that what's on the what's on line right now oh Pro um I think there was an amendment in 23 we've made amendments every few years have you put them on the map so yeah we have a marijuana yes we do yeah and that's one thing Mark I noticed um under the overlay um I don't marijuana's not there okay the marijuana overlay District okay I'm going to make my notes quickly in the text and then just save it again is that what it's called marijuana or do or you call it cannabis marijuana one second I have it up yeah the mod and does is there an electronic copy it's not in the bylaw that's online oh it should be no the map is online it may not be incorporated into the bylaw document yeah that's fine I can get the map I will check on that because that was adopted in 2020 yeah if you go to the zoning it is a hash mark within the zoning what does that mean um so because it might cross um multiple districts oh on the map it yeah it is a hash mark within the overlay yeah many towns don't put their overlay districts on the map because it gets really crowded I mean you've got two that would crowd a lot flood plane and water resource I I haven't I haven't seen a map of the Wetland protection overlay District but um like in Wakefield for example there is have five overlay districts their own map yeah we that we don't have a a map of the Wetland protection overlay District well we're going to have a conversation about that anyway so we'll save it till then good okay there is there is a district there's just no map of the district yeah there are legal description in the in the um in the bylaw right but I'll check on the marijuana Mark and I'll we'll get we'll get it and get it to you okay and is that the only other overlay you know of that's been created the mod yes okay I got a question real quick does our historic district count as an overlay no that's a separate statute 40 C is for historic districts not this is 40a yeah we don't regulate historic district through the zoning bylaw all right so that's pretty short and sweet you don't have anything that goes very deep on determination of boundaries but I suppose that it would you know do a good enough job U and then you don't have anything on split Lots what happens when a lot is split by a zoning District boundary so it could be part residential and part business of some sort the usual approach to that is to say that the less restricted District that would be the business district can encroach up to X feet into the resident District and usually it's by special permit and it's not usually more than 50 feet so 30 feet is common in a lot of places I don't know if you want to put that in it's I can certainly add it we can with the time we have we can consider it either keep it in or throw it up I know that we have so typically what we'll do on a split lot is we'll allow the have the allowed use go on that appropriate zoning um and there is another section where it talks about if you're an industrial or commercial use of budding residential there's uh setback requirements there along with some buffering yeah I remember those but this would actually allow uh the commercial use to be partially located in the residence District because the lot is split by the district line so it's not in the setback you're kind of doing the exact opposite you're you're you're pushing it back from the residential boundary line and you're making it into a buffer um I you know why anybody would have a split lot is a pretty good question you why why are you torturing why are you torturing them with a split lot why not just put it where the boundary of the lot is but um well I not to go in a lot of detail about that but for until about four or five years ago we had a a crayon drawn map that was not parcel specific yeah so then we had to work with our regional planning agency to uh create a digital map that became parcel specific so she was using markers on the map and so forth so but we had a 50-year legacy of of a very generic zoning map yeah a lot of times color pencil not crayon oh pencil I'm sorry a lot of towns will say that the commercial district is a setback 200 feet off of the highway but if the lot's longer than 200 feet you're in a residence District after that That's a classic example of a split lot yeah we just said it's five 400 feet and that's where that zoning goes yeah yeah I'll show you I'll show you a sample and we'll we'll plug it in here at the end of the uh of the setion okay yeah I think we need it there are I can think of at least three different lots that I have looked at in EDC and planning where it is uh dual zoned so and some of it and some of it's not even a clean break some of it's literally a small section was nicked yeah it's and it's in a different zoning district and it'd be nice if we could clean that up all right so I'm into the use regulations and if I remember correctly uh can I can I'll pull up the table of use regulations in a second but if I remember correctly everybody every the the the special per granting Authority is for the most part planning board throughout and the zba's special permit power is pretty much limited to non-conformities so you're not you're not splitting the job uh the planning board gets the gist of it like an interesting thing this 10,000 square foot thing um requires a special permit um dam is a good examp example theirs is a little bigger it's 25,000 Square ft but there are places on the use table where the board of appeals it's a special permit granting Authority but this inum supersedes that Authority if the building is bigger than 25,000 they call it a major non-residential special permit um so you but you do have shared authorities so for example if I wanted to put in uh CVS um which and they're getting bigger um and the CVS was 18 ,000 s f feet it would go to the board of appeals and it would have site plan approval from the planning board if it was 27,000 feet it would go to the planning board for a major non-residential special permit site plan would be merged into the process and that's the way it works there I don't know if that holds any interest for you I don't know whether the board of appeals you know which is typically a shared spga I I would say it's well you know there's town where it's almost the opposite in many towns planning some towns don't trust their planning Bard I live in one when I was on my planning board we didn't give any special permits we did sight plan for uses that are were that were available as of right but if it was a special permit we just made a recommendation to the zba and they had every special permit Winchester is another example Canton is another example um zba their rules uh planning board doesn't do special departments in in in Canton So Different Strokes different folks if it ain't broke I'm not going to fix it I trust my planning board okay Grant in the chair so that's kind of cheating but that's that's a good reason to be chair well um it's also what we all signed up for too it' be kind of weird to change the rules through yeah yeah you know I when I worked in those towns I was always really fascinated by like when I recodified Winchester I said you know well it's unusual that the zoning board of appeals would be site plan review Authority that's usually a planning board job and they tell me if I said that out loud one more time they'd take a gun to me so okay that's just their politics that's all I don't think it's changed I I think I did that 15 18 years ago I don't for all I know it hasn't Chang changed a bit so the only thing I had here for accessory uses in addition to what's in the table is this provision which I should probably color yellow the the general rule for interpreting these uh the table is contained up here in the introduction right so and I'm sure you're all familiar with it except it's provid by Statute or in the bylaw nothing can be done unless it says it can be done in the table if if it's not mentioned in the table then you can't do it that's the usual approach to zoning um and you would think that that would carry over to accessory uses as well as principal uses but in the last year the appeals court has had a couple of chances to think about that and they've basically said what I've said here in yellow at the bottom um accessory uses are those allowed in the table in addition other accessory uses are allowed provided they meet the definition of accessory use there's the definition and the the the cases there been two now from the appeals court via the land Court the cases say there's so many different things that could be accessory uses if they're incidental and subordinate that it's impossible to think of them all and therefore um there's a little bit more flexibility in how you treat accessory uses than principal uses but one rule for principal uses one rule for accessory use different rule for accessory use I don't think it's I don't think it's a bad idea one of the cases U was M um well actually two of them are May um but my favorite one was a a guy up in Boxford who was in his he had like a three ,500 foot house in his garage he was building scale model locomotives one8 you mentioned this one before yeah yeah so what bylaw nobody's bylaw says hobby is a hobby in accessory use I don't think anybody's really you know drilled down to that level and if and if hobbies are allowed I mean how many hobbies are there you've got Alexander and calder's hobby you got the I'm going up to Maine um in a couple of weeks to see a basket Weaver at the Portland Museum of Art who's Now using his tribal skills to weave baskets that are showing up at the um at the the Metropolitan in New York so what people do for a hobby is many faceted and instead of trying to name all of them this would allow them to be generically um authorized now before you scroll past that for accessory uses it's um it says subordinate incidental subordinate to the principle use yes provided they're on the same lot um is there a recommendation to put any kind of a numerical percentage compared to the primary use or is because this basically leaves it up entirely up to the interpretation of the board making the decision so in Boxford there that was a good example the guy's house was 3500 square feet and he wanted to build a 1,00 1,200 square foot accessory building to move all that out out of his garage you could barely walk through the garage and you know so it was incidental and subordinate to the principal structure in use I don't know where I would draw the line there's an old there's a Hadley case an example being I have a house I want to build a garage garage is subordinate to the house but the garage especially if put a bedroom over the top of it could be as larger as larger as the primary residence please um in discussing this keep in mind that there's a difference between an accessory use and an accessory structure okay good point typically the accessory structure regulations appear in the dimensional section I don't think you have any um or not many but but they would focus more on shed sizes shed placement you know what does a shed need a building permit the current state building code is 200 square feet before you need a building permit um if it needs a building permit it probably should observe the setback that's required for the principal structure if it's under 200 square feet it probably can be located closer to the property line maybe five or 10 feet certainly no shed should appear in the front yard so those are the kinds of accessory structure regulations you see all the time those accessory okay locational regulations all also can get into things like where do where can you put a trailer on the property okay particularly in RV I was conflating the dimensional accessory requirements and this one so that's fine yeah but the bottom line is that I I'm not a big fan of can't be bigger than 25% um I I see that frequently the Hadley case was was a story of an internet business that was taking over the house and our our our home occupations already say that we can't go over 25% of the the total floor area so I think that's that's already in line for a home occupation yeah and and in the Hadley case it was it was over 25% and it was rapidly approaching 49% the court said time to get an office downtown and we have a home occupation thing that says for whether it's in-house or in an accessory structure outside yeah and if for like hobby stuff we have Home Craftsman shop yeah I preserved I thought you had such a unique system that I um that I kept them in the uh in the table we didn't sorry for getting this off track here we can go back I think we should spend a second looking at the table so just just hang on for a second and then U just so everyone knows Tom doesn't have a mic I think we've covered his question of course Tom's the chair of zba but we were talking about the accessory uses and structures but his comment is or question was isn't this consistent with what we have uh now in the definitions yes I'd have to go back and look at the definition of accessory uh structure and use yeah I think we have a definition that's not in the new set of definitions yet okay so share screen where's the use table there it is so just to remind you of the use table uh [Music] um this may not be the latest one because I remember getting rid of that red but it didn't change that much so I'll just we're going to talk about senior housing when we get to the section these are the cleaned up Dober uses for the most part and when you get to the uh accessory uses at the end here there are a slew of them listed and a lot of a lot of them focus on these you know Craftsmen professional offices with or without employees custom work to be honest with you my usual approach is to say there's only two kinds of Home occupations and there are those that have no visits to the location or very few so no no employees who don't live there no pupils no customers no clients that's as of right if it has any of that stuff one of those things it's a special permit but you know when I looked back at what you had I said well it you know it's a pretty well thought out system so I did not put in my usual suggestion I don't if you want to see my usual suggestion I'm happy to show it to you in a separate file and you can take a look at it any interest happy to take a look at anything but I like I like how we have it laid out yeah I that that's you you changed my mind now here's some things that you know just basically should be in there Family Daycare small and large this scientific number nine is in the statute so it's in section nine of the statute it's basically mad scientists can work out of their home and adult daycare is my revenge on Long Long departed judge kilborne of the land Court who told me that my client in Westwood who wanted to do this in a big Old Post Road home take in people in the morning and have them picked up by their adult children at night was a warehouse and it wasn't educational and I said well we're going to get around that somehow judge so there you have it for the 45th time since he did that and I you know so the these are the things that are listed now this this doesn't mean that this is all you can do like what we just went over you can do plenty of other things as well you just have to you just have to show that they're that that they meet the definition of accessory Mark can I just make a suggestion from a readability standpoint sure the accessally uses come directly after princial uses meaning before the use tables I just feel like that tiny little Clause is going to get lost so say again what you want me to do so you want to move 3.3.1 to right after to in within the Ed table area basically no I want to you make 3.3 3.2 and then make 3.2 3.3 okay I can do that if it pleases the rest of the panel it just seems more logical to me that way but I could be convinced otherwise yeah start out with the little ones and work your way to the big ones kind of well also you've got principal and then you've got an opposing view point so you might as well put it next to it okay no objections for me sounds good I got a question about accessory uses though in a in a way um yeah as far as like a home occupation something that's sort of faded out but how do we make like a neighborhood store like a small little neighborhood shop that's not a full retail site but not necessarily agriculture well it's still a principal use yeah it's got to be in a commercial Village commercial or other zone or non-conforming in a residential yeah is there a way to limit the size of a store like can could we permit just a like a small small like again like a neighborhood store that would be like under a th000 square feet or 2,000 like very small for just some snacks and stuff in the neighborhood but I'm trying to remember the town that I did this in it might be stoen um but they have what's called a the gradation is neighborhood um you know more or less district and then en and the size ratio for a neighborhood business for a store would be under 2500 3,000 square feet so it's truly you know a mom and pop thing that you can walk to um a slightly bigger limitation would be 10,000 square feet and that would be something that serves an area of town um and then the bigger stores would U you know have no limit although I have written limits for big boxes back in the days when everybody hated big boxes I think one town put a limitation of 60,000 Square F feet on a big box so you can do that but it but it's you're if you're cified that makes a lot more sense right because you don't want to be um you want a neighborhood in Quincy to have something you can walk to and get milk eggs with the stroller no parking really exists so you have to keep the size of it down I you know I I I question whether or not I mean there are probably neighborhoods in Norton where you would want to do that but well where I live we used to have two stores within walking distance in my street but they're now non-conforming so nobody can pick up like the neighborhood store even if they wanted to yeah the only the area where we now require it is in the Village Center core with a first floor retail we don't have a specific size limit although we do say that you can do Residential on the first floor but it has to be on the backside of it so it would it would limit the square footage but it it it's I I think we want to be mindful of being overly prescriptive and Steve I hope I'm not Mis categorizing it and if we're able to provide flexibility because know I'm with you that I want to see more top of the shop housing like you do um you know we but otherwise uh you know what we've had and in some parts of of Norton is residential or commercial uses that were in areas that we've zoned residential so they were non-conforming so when they closed and if they went beyond two years uh being closed then they lost that right and some have I like I'm sort of wondering if it's like the same as the home occupation where if it was combined with a residential lot that it would be limited to not greater than 25% of the the the building that sort of limitation you have to be careful though like in I live in West conquered and it's a separate and discreet business area in my town the downtown is very historic and it's controlled by three landlords it's kind of like Nantucket in that way but West conquer a free-for-all so when I was on the planning board maybe 15 12 years ago we had a whole West conquered planning effort and the business people participated and I I think the limitation on a store in West conquered might be 4,000 square feet and that kind of if you're successful that's an impediment there have been people that have been very successful and the four th000 gets in the way um you know and probably the best example of success is the liquor store but there have been others Deborah Gourmet which is a you know alternative food store approaches the the same size so there's a there's a fine line between character and and and frustrating the success of the business people like for instance in my neighborhood most of the lots are around 5 10 15,000 square feet Max so most stores wouldn't really be able to exceed 5,000 square feet anyways I don't think most would get Beyond a couple thousand square feet if they were in my neighborhood at that point but yeah I I think You' be you can certainly you can certainly Define them and limit them just by putting a cap on the size of the business okay um I'll dig out I can't I think it's Sten I'll dig out the uh neighborhood business um gradations and show you at least the definitions so that you can see so so Tom going back to the accessory use or building Tom has uh brought up what our code does say right now uh in the definition section which is a use or so accessory user building a use or a freestanding building customarily incidental and subordinate to the principal permitted use or Building located on the same lot as the principal permitted use or or building and not prohibited by uh that particular section that's the use table you should have yeah I'm Sorry by the use table right you should have two definitions one for accessory use and one for accessory structure so we'll we'll break that out is it and then sorry sorry so I don't I don't see any when I look in the [Music] dimensional section here which is where I would find typically accessory structure rules it's it's it's dry you don't have any and I don't know how big an issue it is I mean how you know how close your neighbor puts the shed to the shared property line is oftentimes an issue well accessory structures are dictated they're currently covered in um the dimensions table in uh section six I think it's 6.2 let me look at yeah there are setbacks there for accessory structures typically about 10 feet from the rear and side I believe okay I didn't I didn't take them out so I I cleaned up the the uh dimensional table and I've sent it to you so you'll still see them in there and hey I was correct according to Tom and Tom would know so does it really break it out into structures by zoning by zoning District than by the particular type of setback it's more permissive than the primary structure but oh I seeum side yard for accessory building and feet yeah yeah yeah and then minimum rear yard yeah those are the two that apply to the accessory structures okay do you need more I mean accessory structures would include fences I don't did I see a corner clearance regulation you know what I mean by that I don't recall seeing one I didn't see one I don't remember it I just did this last week so I can send you a sample Corner clearance so Corner clearance just basically says that any fence that comes to a point where two roads have an intersection can't be higher than I think it's 3 feet so that traffic traffic is Sidelines yeah sight lines that would be helpful for that family on manfeld have the ones that got hit by the car no there's somebody that had to go to zba and we had no RS on it um neighbors put up a fence and it ruined the sight line from their driveway yeah you also I mean like I when I leave my neighborhood now the people at the corner um have planted arbores and they're drooping out onto the road and I've got a stop sign 150 ft down the road to my left and I've got to really get out Beyond it to Peak to see whether a car's coming uh with the branches hanging like that so you want to make it clear that a a fence and a and a hedge are not any different in terms of impeding Vision so it sounds like maybe that corner clearance would be something helpful within our zoning bylaws based on what uh Tom is putting in the chat yeah okay I'll I'll pass that sample along um when I get into the dimensional stuff I've got this lot shaped Factor calculation how's that working for you h a lot of math Engineers have to do the math not us yeah who does it the Building Commissioner I'll read you the sketch at least how's that oh the manade sketch just is driving me crazy yeah just a playf older yeah but I'm not going to do the sketch no I said I'll do it because the one that's in our current bylaws is literally handdrawn well I understand what you're trying to do here you're trying to make sure that people don't scrimp save every last piece of land and and and you end up with weird shaped Lots but I mean is it it it what is the general take on this people like it they don't like it I mean I in my town we have a picture it's you know you you have to hold 80% of your Frontage to the building front line so if the frontage is 100 feet no part of the lot can be less than 80 feet wide in before you get to the building front line and then in the back if you're going to try to grab rat tails some some will work if they're like almost right Tri triangles but if it's too pointy a triangle like a dunon cap you can't count any of the land in the triangle and it and that's all we say you can't do that I'm I'm not opposed to reimagining it um yeah I don't know how much of a burden the shape factor is to an applicant I don't know if Paul we have a couple of uh this isn't a conine question but more of the our usual local suspects from a does this shape Factor make sense is it a challenge when you're putting together a project or would you prefer something like X I mean I I would love to just see an alternative to this okay I say con CH in here I I feel like the lot shape factor is being abused most for subdivisions that's where I see the most Lots retroactively from like the last 40 Years of development that I wonder like why was this shaped that way so I definitely like to see some stricter rules about that kind of lot design I'll show you just so you get a feel for it but I'll but I'll definitely pass it along too so [Music] um so here's so here's here's what conquered does so this there's a series of pictures here this is for lot width and the little triangles right so lot width basically says it's a different drawing that you have to hold 80% of the frontage requirement to the building front line 100 just for Simplicity 100 foot Frontage requirement means your lot has to hold 80 feet to the building front line that takes care of the front nothing can be irregular and then once you get to the back you're holding the 80 feet uh on with the lot Frontage if you've got pretty close to a right angle um then you can count that shaded area used in calculation if you got AB dun's cap you can't you can't use that so these rat tails that go off into the woods looking for more area don't count and your lot wouldn't have the requisite area think there's one other drawing now there's aont Frontage exception for lots that are uh on cool dexs I think that's that's that's worked for we don't have irregularly shaped Rock Lots as a result of that so I'll send that that to you and you can take a look all right so I think that in terms of other missing pieces here for accessory structures um if I mean the setex is really the most important thing [Music] um you've already got the things that don't count for Building height like the kilas and things like that I mean when I went through the dimensional section it was I tried to make it a little bit more sensible so there's a couple of things to talk about multiple buildings in these districts I put them together um otherwise it was just sort of hopscotching around all over the the place and then you've got the the dry land requirement here wetlands and waterways the table will go right right there I I got a question real quick shot uh the multiple building section so yeah in a in the residential district that you can't put more than one building on a single property I would imagine that it's it's a basically um subject to different Provisions in the bylaw for example you have a open space or a cluster so the question is can I do a condo um I would like to see that loosened up so that you could do that I I was thinking sort of specifically like agricultural or recreational or educational buildings where like a campus style might require more than one building on the same property well in in the case of educational buildings um it's do amendments so you can pretty much get away with that in the case of agricultural courts have ruled that a house is is is you know always in a feature that accompanies a farm or many times the company's a farm so it's not unusual and it's certainly lawful to have a house on a farm I I'm doing a a u 61a uh purchase for a client up in Newberry it's 10.5 Acres there's a house they never divided it so when you do 61a you got to know what's Agricultural and what's the house we when the guy submitted his application he said it's all agricultural if you go on Google Maps and you look at the house there's 4 chickens in the driveway so all you know we've got to but we still have to divide the house out and put it on its own acre to satisfy 61a which is probably pretty common so like can a can a farm put like a bed and breakfast on the same property and have a home occupation on it all at the same time it so if you look at Westport massachusetts's regulations westport's down uh near Little Compton in Rhode Island it's the first town in Massachusetts on the south coast they have a a heavy emphasis on uh Agra Agra business Agro tourism uh and they've got definitions for all that uh and you know Westport Winery is there they've got musicon Friday and Saturday um there's a couple of other businesses that also cater to that kind of Farm to Table stuff you can go as far as you want uh but you should probably put a definition in place as to how far because some people will just go too far you know if you're doing 60 weddings a summer that's a little bit over the top fair but as long as we're not prohibitive I wouldn't mind making sure we we it's possible within regulations well I'll send you a cop of westport's Agra Dash regulations okay there's only three and you can see uh and you know and then if you Google uh some of the places that are in Westport you'll you'll see how big some of them have gotten but hey I'm who's you know Farmers need all the help they can get right absolutely sure I think you know just don't get cowboy Bob coming in for six gun demonstrations like they did in Dunstable it's just reminding me of the office so the beat Farm yeah exactly all right so there's not much changed here in the dimensional stuff this section Mark can you to 4.6 4.6 yeah there's there's two Clauses four 464 and 465 that I don't think belong here I think these should be moved over to the cluster development they're not dimensional or lot modifications specific okay [Music] so both of 464 and 465 came from the cluster develop the original cluster development rigs what about 463 that's got to go too right well I'm okay with that because it is a IT addresses at least the subject of the section lot area modification I see so I'm okay if it's duplicated but I don't think 464 so 465 are applicable here okay I can see moving 465 over I have to confess that I don't understand and um 464 is that a freestanding invitation without a lot of fanfare to do a townhouse or a row house that was a clause that was specifically within the cluster subdivision the townhouse thing yeah so I don't know if that is only applicable if they are building town or Rouses within a cluster development so if um somebody remind me on the corner of Oak 123 how many units was that was that four or was that five that we approved I think it only three either three or four the one that's tearing down the old Fruit Stand that's about to fall part on its own yeah I want to say three I'll give myself 70% sure on that okay some reason I was thinking it was four because I think they bumped it up by one because I think it's a so I can only do I could be wrong I can only do a townhouse or rooh house structure in a cluster is what you're telling me I don't know that's okay yeah that's where because if this is the Only Rule I mean the cluster has a lot of rules surrounding it so that would work but but if this is a freestanding invitation to do townhouse I don't think it's in the used anymore yeah I I did a quick I did a quick look and I couldn't find tow houses or Ro houses addressed anywhere else except within the cluster subdivision section okay so I'll go back and look at that to see how that's supposed to fit because otherwise it just appears here yep yeah right okay thank you okay all right can I go to Five yeah so you know anytime we do a public session where people are just coming up to speed this is all new and it's about the most important thing in the bylaw for people who want to add on to their houses or knock them down and rebuild them so we spent a lot of time going through this yeah we've been through it so my only comment that I had at the time was I'd like Nick guif The Building Commissioner to weigh in and I'm not sure he has okay well you know this is probably something that appears in probably 65 to 75 bylaws across the Commonwealth and I the last guy that couldn't figure it out was an Oak Bluffs and that was 20 years ago so nobody's calling me up and saying you're a bum I think I've simplified it to the point where it works pretty good I don't I don't like to over complicate it with things like f limitations so you it's all just what about lot shape Factor I'm kidding joking no no we can make sure Nick has reviewed it okay I I I'll I'll make sure I'm gonna him on most it he when he's ready he can just call me yeah just just give him my cell phone number and I know oh Tom I guess is still not able to talk but this is something zba looks at a lot or non-conforming uh so we do have a lot of them yeah everybody does all right so couple of things here I framed out in noncon in in in parking and loading what did I say here oh yeah I mean what you're telling me is that there's a hard cap on expanding a nonconforming it says build building or land use of building or land I don't know remember the the lesson from the section we just went by is that there's non-conforming uses there's non-conforming structures you can have a conforming use and a non-conforming structure you can have a non-conforming use in a conforming structure or they can both be non-conforming but there's different rules in terms of how you play that game moving forward for expansion I don't even know what this is intended to address and why is it in the parking site maybe expanded okay and the number of occupants or employees located therein may be increased by not more than 25% what's the purpose of that what if somebody has a really good idea and it could be doubled and it wouldn't hurt anybody yeah I think that's that's real restrictive I mean I would just delete this may be just a a way to it may be an overcorrection but uh okay you have a non-conforming you can't make it worse we put a number to it but it's in parking yeah I'm not going to try and recre re readdress their logic but in case in the yeah I know I had I know my grandparents house had a parking driveway that was on an easement with their neighbor and it caused all sorts of problems so didn't cause any problems when his brother would Liv next door but once he sold it once he died it caus all sorts of problems so I mean maybe that's kind of the I don't know all right I'm gonna I'm gonna make this red because it bothers me and we'll figure it out we got nine months to figure it out I it's this part if you just put a period there you we could move it back to non-conformities even though such building or land will thereby become non-conforming or more non-conforming as regards parking required by this section I mean shouldn't we move this under the non-conforming well it it's calling out as regards the provision of parking right no I understand but it it seems like a logical place would still be I don't like that but I it it would seem like I would not miss that if it's in if I'm looking for non-conforming Provisions putting it all in one one place is helpful especially for the guy who always misses that and would step on the first land mine well there are towns that say in the non-conforming section non-conforming parking and there's you know which is appropriate right because it's another type of non-conformity so I don't have a problem with moving it back to non-conforming yeah I think non-conforming makes more sense because this is sort of saying to disregard the parking requirements in a way so 5.5 does address non-conforming single and two family and it used to State you couldn't increase it by more than 25% and Mark increased that to 100% so we if we leave it as is we've got a conflict between 5.5 and 612 well see I don't know that this is ever going to apply to a single family a lawful use of building or land existing at the time so I mean if this was applying to a single family they would probably be you they'd probably be lawful there's no doubt about that even though such building or land will thereby become non-conforming or more non-conforming I think it's that sentence is probably just indicating that if became non-conforming with regard to parking it couldn't go up by more than 25% so single family what's a single family parking requirement it's two spaces so I this this strikes me as being directed towards something other than single family okay fair enough I mean they're talking about employees and yeah [Music] no oh we flagged it moving alone so this is what you have there's a parking table I I I made um I made everything into a table uh I have I I've sent it along I can dig it out but I now have made a table of residential and a table of non-res residential parking requirements the table of residential parking requirements is kind of weird uh because it talks about parking for Elder Elder uh occupancy buildings funded by the government good God that stopped in the Reagan Administration yeah yeah yep so I'll go I'll go to the parking schedule momentarily I didn't I didn't flag it and put it up let me do that now e I like the naming convention like what old old old old old yeah well I'm not seeing it I'll get it later all right so let me get back to the share here all right um but those are Smithsonian in vintage so they probably I'm just looking if you see things like that three asterisks um it's just a way I remember that I have to come back and find the right cross reference oh you had something here that I didn't like special permits for reduced requirements if you can reduce a parking lot by cutting out some of the number of required spaces the board of appeals May Grant a special permit for a period of for a period not to exceed three years that's kind of tough to finance most of the time because the bank's putting up the money and they don't know whether or not the parking is going to have to be expanded and it may have an impact on the building and so it's you know I'm I'm of the of the belief that if you're going to reduce the parking you probably should have a parking study done when you do the first permit so that you don't have to backfill later by making the first effort of gas just just do a parking analysis yeah we generally do that in the first permit at the planning board if we need to can I take out the for a period not to exceed three years that's what I was gonna say yeah that makes sense yeah when the National Weather Service moved their facility into Norton from Taun was right you're I forgot you're the headquarters there yeah but yeah they they were like we have a whole bunch of machines the machines don't need a parking spot so they showed they could put them in if they needed to and we said leave them leave the space alone less impervious I'm a big fan I'm on there twice a day um so driveways I prefer special perit to variants here variance has to be due to soil condition shape topography 500 feet is not shape it's size so put it on put it on special permit no harm no fou is the test for special permit not hardship and I so I think that's where I I think I was satisfied that your your parking provision yeah so this 617 is something that I would have put at the end but you already had it if it could be demonstrated that the land you know for parking is available but it's not needed you can get a special permit now question is do you want to broaden this and say what I usually say which is any parking requirement can be uh waved by special permit Mark you you have to make a finding that it's not going to cause detriment but it's business friendly to say any parking requirement any loading requirement can be waved by special permit so so Mark um and I'm still trying to get back into the groove with Norton but if it's in front of the planning board if let's say it's a site plan or special permit yep they have the ability to Grant waivers to reduce parking not unless you say that I think our bylaw I thought we added something a few years ago but I I I guess where I'm going with this is if if a project is with planning board does it make sense that any sort of waiver we would try to encourage staying there as opposed to yes um you know we've people have had to do this in the past where they're going through planning board we discover they need a waiver then they have to go to zba as well and it holds everything up and yeah it should be One-Stop shopping so if the use just requires site plan approval at the planning board well everything's being done at the planning board anyway so the planning board ought to be able to give a separate special permit for a wave so if you needed to wave just I don't I I you know I don't even think I got this right I think it should just say the planning board because the planning board's got so much Authority on these issues the ZB doesn't really even get involved so I don't think the planning board in the court of special perimeter site plan approval proceeding May Grant a special permit to vary the requirements of the sign section if it can be demonstrated that a modification will not result in substantial detriment so normally that's what I would put at the end of parking too but you had a homegrown thing there and I left it I I would much I guess my advice would be to take this and move it up to parking as well any regulation in section 6.1 can be varied by special permit not by variance so the zba never gets involved it's One-Stop shopping they're already there for a special permit or site plan approval or both so this is going to be very extensively reviewed why not let him have freedom of design here and I think I added the same thing at the end of lighting special permit for modifications this is lighting and I think I added it at the end of landscaping that's been something I've been you know thinking about for a number of years that if it's with planning board you know if we're talking about a waiver it just seems fair to every everybody including CBA that that the planning board just handle it yeah I remember Tom you'll probably remember with blue star few years ago with phase one you guys had to review I it was maybe the a common driveway waiver or something but it specifically did not allow it was specifically not stated that the board had that Authority and they had to go to zva Y and it's just had to look at that too I remember we did yeah they did they had to issue a variant so I I think you're correcting that I would take this this is I just copied and pasted this at the end of every section and corrected signs to say lighting to say l Landscaping um but I think I would go back to parking and I would take out that section that talks about you're only granting a waiver for the reduction in the number of spaces I mean what if I don't want to plant the required number of landscaping features within the parking lot or what if I don't want to separate the parking from my neighbor's property by a planted buffer because there's an extensive existing vegetation there you're not foreseeing those kinds of differentiations that exist between one property a and property B and you can adjust all of them by just putting this for parking I I like I said I don't think the board of appeals has any role to play because they don't do special permits and they don't do site plan approval so I I can just fix all that in three seconds that work I'm also confused as to why we would need to issue a special permit you can't wave a bylaw you can wave a subdivision regulation because the subdivision statute provides in 8 81r gives the planning board power to wave okay but that's that's not something that appears in the zoning act and it's not something that can be done without a bylaw I feel like we haven't been possibly doing things correctly yes I I don't think we've been issuing special permits for waiver no I'm sure you get tempted by waiver requests all the time yeah I think they've all been under special permits if you say that the board can wave regulations in the bylaw you can wave regulations by special permit but that that's a land court case from a long time ago judge um yeah in fact judge koshan said in a case I I remember the name of the case it was a loha something it was a Hawaiian thing and he said that it's not possible to wave substantive requirements you know dimensional requirements in a site plan approval without first granting a special permit that's an old case but it's still in my book if I if I remember correctly I think in most cases there' have been permits attach there have been special permits attached yeah so but but Town Council has advised us that if the bo planning board does not have a specific authority to Grant a waiver they can't and then it would then it would have to go to zba genius so now we're going to take him up on that and here we go but can I get concurrence that we can we can amend the bylaw so that all we have to do is issue the waiver within the special permit we don't need to do another special permit on top of the original special permit I think I would advise a against that because if somebody were to contest it you'd you'd end up in a black hole why not if the use requires a special permit yeah why not and they want to wave the lighting the big one is always signs right yeah they they want to waiver because they want to put up internally lit signs and your District doesn't allow that why not just make them apply for a separate special permit to put up the internally lit signs and now you're covered okay we're going to need to keep track of that because that's a separate vote right but not not a problem yep done all the time okay that that's on your planning director to make sure he's up on uh yeah he's paying attention so I want to take this section which talks about signs and I want to move it back to the section that talks about parking and plunk it down here at the end like this I'll fix it later and take this section out up here because it just talks about the number of spaces and I'll rumber accordingly so now it's going to say for parking and loading you can ask us to vary anything by special permit and by special permit we can do that I mean I had a there's no worse evening out than going to the zba and having to listen to some Sign Company guy trying get five variances for signs and then he and then he has to argue that it's because of the soil conditions shape the can can we go home now okay so I just want to be clear sorry I'm going to beat this for to a fault we've got a special for a warehouse that exceeds 10,000 square ft they also need a waiver of a Time dimension on the sign yeah we need that needs two special permits correct okay and if you wanted to reduce the parking you need a third one a third special permit okay it's not just a waiver within the original special permit cheat on the Landscaping you need a fourth okay it's all one ad right now the last question I had in this very nice I'm glad you have lighting and Landscaping already but I my last question was performance standards in or out so I did not put them in I I I have it ready to go I just was interested in Saving trees um but you have to discuss this and tell me because you had a couple of qualms about it when we went through it so just Talk Amongst yourselves and tell me whether you want me to put it in or out and maybe Paul can send me an email what's the context here I'm sorry the long section that I showed you on noise um there's another section on um I think we've the lighting you've already got so would start with noise it would go to preparation it would go to traffic it would go to utility connection it it's the whole we we spent a whole meeting going through it and it they're basically the standards that you don't have in 61 62 63 and 64 so for example nothing in 61 to 64 talks about noise this would be a a new section on noise trap there's nothing in 61 to 64 this would be a new section on traffic and pedestrian safety bicycle provision and it it has the same punch line if you if you don't like it ask for a special permit to wave it and by asking in or out they would not you would delete that entire section or just incorporating Within document is what you're saying well I took notes when we went through it a couple meetings ago and so I can come back with my notes and plug it in you know instantaneously but I I didn't want to assume after that meeting that you were gung-ho about it because it was a first it was a first run through it was a dry you know it was a first run through the a lot of material I could put it back in we got nine meetings more to talk about nine months not nine meetings right yeah nine meetings too probably well I I don't think we have have you on under contract for that many no it's never mattered before I've been 18 in Bridgewater so seriously all right let's not looking forward to that let's keep going so I just took a a few things that you know I just had time to do a few things here that really didn't change much earth materials is 7.1 um these are General regula um sorry these are these are special regulations that are topic oriented here oh I think I probably wanted to call your attention in the sign by law you had one reference to political I think I saw that yeah you said that you took out how long it had they had to be removed I think yes yes so there's an old case from the US Supreme Court you can regulate political signs but you can't regulate them it's the third one like that yeah you can say what the size is but you can't take you can't talk about the timing of their uh appearance and disappearance and it all goes back to a case from a suburb of St Louis back uh in the 80s woman in question put a sign up on her front lawn no to the Gulf War the first Gulf War and the George senior war and somebody tore it down she moved it into the yard somebody tore it down she put it on her wall somebody tore it down she moved it into her bedroom window somebody called the police and the ACLU defended her and the United States Supreme Court said this is the highest form of political speech and you cannot prohibit somebody from exercising at any day of the year you can put reasonable time place in manner restrictions on it like you know it can't be bigger than six square feet but you can't say you can't do it because you're prohibiting the most sacred kind of speech so these still appear in many of our bylaws and ordinances across the Commonwealth and you've got to go through the AG that's your problem and she'll strike that in a heartbeat I know she probably last looked at your bylaw before 1984 or three or two whenever the cas is um glea versus ladu um and I think it's ladu that's the city the suburb of St Louis all right so I've always interpreted the political sign aspect is relating to town elections and not necessarily I used to beach yeah I see what you mean no I was I was the proud owner of a sign that just said Kennedy moved to Rhode Island and I put it up in Providence when I you know it was all purpose sign not anymore but all right so the other thing that I did once I get past the Earth stuff here is I yeah okay so you've got adult uses in the table of uses but you don't have any rules in the text of the bylaw and the way you regulate it now in the table is a direct regulation of the protected speech and perhaps not as much as political speech but not far behind is freedom of speech with regard to um artistic um speech certainly the Supreme Court has held that this is the Larry Flint case yeah yeah well there's a lot of cases um but but it is protected speech and so to say no to protected speech is a no no but to say we're really just regulating the secondary effects of the speech meaning crimes to property crimes to person is not protective speech at all and you're perfectly free to do that so that's the purpose of these two major paragraphs that I've added to section 7.2.1 which one of you is going to have to read to the town meeting when we do this because I don't do this part I like to see one of you go go into that sinkhole it never really is a bright and Shining Moment at town meeting but you got to do it and then I added your existing regulations thousand feet from all other zoning districts which means that your um industrial district better damn well be a th000 ft from this from One Direction and a th000 feet in the other direction you're in a I think you're in a Riv problem here Riv said that the lot on which an adult business had to be located had to have a 200 foot setback from all boundaries and it was in a swamp to begin with and there was no lot that met that requirement and tnd D video sued them and Riv ended up paying a half a million bucks now Riv is a much much more you know popular place for adult business than Norton in all likelihood but the rule on adult businesses and I make it very clear here in my little note I'm going to leave that in to the very end there must be a reasonable opportunity for the exercise of the speech meaning that you just didn't put an angel on the head of a pin here you you've got a the the lead case on reasonable opportunity is tingbo small town 10,000 people 10,000 acres they left six Lots in an basically an industrial district none of the Lots were currently available to rent but you don't have to make them currently available there just has to be a reasonable opportunity on the other hand in Medford uh the by the way the the ratio in tingbo was the number that I remember is 0.875 per less than 1% of tsoro whereas in Medford they zoned a city block which was about 1.2 or 3% and they were held accountable for it uh it was not a reasonable opportunity so you really have to do some hard look no adult youth shall be located less than a thousand feet from all other zoning districts means that it has to be centrally located in an industrial district that's at least 2,000 plus feet wide 2,000 feet including the not including the space for the damn building if the building is 50 feet wide it's 250 ft in I just looked at the map and the only spot we'd have you know somebody needs to do this I or you or you can rewrite you know a th000 feet from zoning districts I mean you could you could go into school residences you don't need to say zoning District I mean what if the neighboring zoning district is you know light industrial who cares well just playing Devil's Advocate there are Residential Properties in industrial zoning here yeah I'm sure so I would say residentially owned or zoned properties but I wouldn't say all other zoning districts because you're going to find out you're in violation and there's no more why would yeah if we're if it's ajacent to commercial why would we be buffering that that's just I don't know you're assuming logic Paul I'm gonna send you tnd video to you know scare The Living Daylights out of you I just made a note we also don't have a properly sized industrial zone for that that is next to commercial as a border it's all basically against Residential well you also I don't I'm trying to remember do you also have I don't I didn't see any reference to tattoo parlors body artist we have body [Music] modification is that a the Ed table it is I we discussed that in the in one of the recent meetings okay specifically we're going to have to change some of the allowances based on what is Con what constitutes body art nowadays yeah well that's also protected speech protected for the artist protected for the bearer I think we all kind of agreed at the last meeting that it would be fine in the commercial District also okay all right so I I added you know very typical regulations for adult uses 50 foot vet vegetated buffer you got to keep everything's in the building you can't have miners there was one there was one place one woman got her license pulled I think she was in mending and because she couldn't sell alcohol she basically advertised for 18 years year olds and charged them $115 for a Coke she didn't lose much of her customer base I thought that was pretty smart of her um sign requirements and then most importantly these criminal statutes inducing or abetting delinquency of a child these are in the statutes if you're going to have adult usess you have to have these as conditions of a special permit so you can read these these are all new um you know I suggested that you might want to put the proposed adult use establishment with a separation from residential zoning districts public private school Church blah blah blah blah blah take a look at that that's all new uh marijuana establishments and treatment centers these are just being re renumbered put in here although I do think we're going to have to talk about solar energy with some changes sorry go ahead go back to I guess both of those yeah um I think that it this is probably one of the earlier meetings but if there was um I thought that our wireless ones needed to be looked at I have um yeah I have made some changes to it and I'll make sure that you see them in yellow that's fine no you had said that you were just going to drop them in there and went well we were thought we were going to tweak it but never mind yeah I'll see it when I see it yeah you'll see it in draft too okay uh I was gonna ask under marijuana establishments do we do we need to work on anything for any upcoming social uh consumption establishments and also under Mass law they just I I I noticed recently there's an uptick on hemp derived THC products that are still allowed on the market they're in the liquor stores they're not being sold through cannabis facilities they're they're being sold not with a HCA well you're in over my head now I know our current one does not allow recreational use it's just right not the it's medical it it doesn't allow um social consumption consumption right yeah which we did whenever we adopted the bylaw six years ago yeah 2020 somebody somebody suggested four years ago somebody suggest the idea of uh if somebody wanted to do a marijuana and Hot Yoga Studio which I'm like yeah that's a natural pairing but I don't want somebody driving after that and go driving home after it right what I'm kind of wondering sound same experience can a can a restaurant now start serving low percentage hemp derived THC products now that it's it's not regulated in Massachusetts right now like can someone open up a hemp bar for hemp drinks with THC in them don't know the answer okay my considered social consumption that's what I would consider under for us personally but as far as the state law they don't enforce it because it's technically derived from hemp not from the cannabis plant although in my mind that's botanically the same plant but the state legally considers it two separate products right and they regul and they regulate it very differently so hemp is regulated by uh you know Department of Agriculture right whereas cannabis Control Commission handles anything with u uh what TCH THC THC sorc hemp is allowed to have up to 3% THC and what they do is grow a large amount of hemp and extract it and concentrate it into a like a 5% beverage it's a loophole yeah I I I I don't know what the but I guess it that part of that will be regulated by the state but we may have to down the road update the bylaws to you know reflect that new use sure if you send me your question my partner Jonathan routinely speaks at the Attorney General's marijuana symposia that she holds around the state so he's considered to be an expert which I certainly am not okay awesome he may not know the answer but he's a lot smarter on this subject than I am uh the state is working on it is that could be the answer okay well the state's working on they still working on solar too so that's still the answer I didn't say it was a good answer all right so affordable oh here's the bad news this requirement here six you told us this when you looked at it that it was not Kosher yeah yeah there was a I was I was somewhere in the I think I was in an Antarctica when the case came down because I got a call from lawyers weekly asking me to comment Justice Rubin had it at the land court so but everybody knew it was illegal because there been an earlier case from Westwood that was very close on point but you can still do the multi family stuff um the multif family stuff is permissible um so I left it in I'm sure you wanted to get at the six lot subdivisions too but the state it probably makes sense to me yeah they're gonna have to step in here at some point and fix this or else there's not going to be that much inclusionary housing anymore Well I this isn't for us but I am concerned about that sixun threshold it's just too low no project even if you make it a 10 unit or a 12 unit threshold you can't do it you can't put a subdivision on a special permit that's the right Rule and the only right oh no refering to the number of units not the Lots yeah oh oh oh yeah yeah lots made no sense to me but six units is just it the numbers don't pencil out for affordability I I agree with you I think Newton start be higher yeah or higher I I I'm trying we're I need to look into that to see what that what that sweet spot is okay I'm just making a note all right so I think I also put here um these are special residential regulations so here's the cluster and didn't change it here's senior housing this may not be in the one I sent you I think I added it to mine a couple of days later so senior housing is basically independent living assisted living memory units and long-term care facilities which is the new name for a uh nursing home and essentially um you there's some choices to make here in terms of minimum parcel size although I usually say whatever is allowed in the district for a building because there's different kinds of senior facilities there's campus style which generally involves you know a five to 10 acre lot and there's also shoehorn style I have a client who has urban facilities in places like Worcester um tubry Dartmouth um and it works and the bottom line is that these are generally nice neighbors they don't use Town services to any great extent except they don't even use ambulance services to that great an extent but there's um you know these are pretty quiet places they pay their taxes and um I think the the highest number of people in the baby boom era just two weeks ago I read is turning 65 this this year so there are more people turning 65 this year in the baby boom than any other year um and then I just listed the overlay districts so I guess this is my opportunity to say when are you going to get rid of the wetlands District yeah we've uh I have to work with conservation because that it really makes no sense I mean we have Wetland we have a you know we we we well we don't have a Wetlands bylaw but what's the point of having a wetland District when you have when we follow the state's Wetland protection act that's the goal is to inforce that particular act not something that's beyond it well it's even more so to close the loopholes in that act I mean you've got limited project exception as a loophole there's no vernal pools in the in the state law so the real one of the real values of having a a general bylaw here is to close those loopholes down you can greatly expand the no touch as well and I think I got a I think Steve sent something around about policy and I sent him that North Andover case that says policy doesn't cut the mustard so so just leave it blank for now I thought you had so many interesting Village Center core District design standards that it was worthwhile to put those in the special district regulations so I had help with those so yeah I'm not gonna rewrite them sign significant amount of help with it go they go on and on so yeah well that was intentional that we wanted that to be a very design oriented District I think the biggest takeaway from section 10 would be the new special permit criteria which I think I mean if I've put section five and 65 to 75 I put these in 75 to 90 bylaws and ordinances and nobody's complaining about it but most importantly the site plan regulations have been modified to require a public hearing now because there's going to be a direct appeal to court so at the end of the site plan section you'll um see the appeal provision here any person agreed by a decision of the planning board goes straight to a court of competent jurisdiction um I should put that so I'm I'm rep I represent Berkshire natural resource Council having a fight with their neighbors about a parking lot the parking lot serves their Crown Jewel in the southern berkers preserve we've come to an agreement now we have to go for site plan approval at the board of Select there's no provision like 10 6 16 so no appeal directly to court in the absence of that where you are right now the appeal goes to the board of appeals when the building permit is issued or denied there's no building permit required for the parking lot so you know everybody should have 10616 it sends it directly to court but in order to have it go directly to court the land court is ruled that you have to first have a public Hearing in town hall so those are the two basic changes and then there's a couple of additions here for do and for reasonable accommodations which we've talked about briefly so the goal my goal is to get through a brief that I have due in two weeks at the appeals court and then turn my attention to finishing up your second draft do you want to meet some sometime in the first 10 days of July to go through that or would you because I'm leaving on the 11th and I won't be back till the 24th I could do it at the end of July but I don't want to ruin your vacation I'm open for whatever yeah I'm pretty wide open yeah we don't actually have planning on the second or the ninth it looks like you do or you don't we do not the ninth um yeah the eighth or the ninth would be best for me I can do either of those yeah works there might be an economic development Commission meeting I see it as a TBD on my calendar but don't let me stop it if Monday's the better night um it looks like I could do all of us are saying either so yeah I don't want to do it on the 10th because I leave the next day for Santa Fe so I don't know what time the flight's going to be so okay with the nth pardon so Tuesday the ninth it is if that's okay with you any objections sounds like it is all right so I'm gonna put 6m yeah we we'll get this on calendar pretty soon I'll I mean tomorrow then we'll take a break till after Liberty well this team won't though because we're because I think it's next week we're set to we're we're hoping to meet with you all to talk about the MBTA requirement uh you should have it on your calendar for the 12th June 12th at 6 let me enjo en at least a couple days away from uh thinking about things well we just figured this was as this group was already here and this is going to be at fall it has to be at fall town meeting oh yeah you know this is a this is a an important group to help us get that MBTA requirment right and uh get it to a successful town meeting in the fall we don't want to be one of the 10 groups now on the states uh naughty list and you know you all have a lot to offer and this would be a you know this will be it's different from what Mark's doing but it's it's very needed we'll just copy what Middleboro did go from there just kidding no no no what do they do will not do anything middle state to shove it somewhere oh well figurative terms yeah my partner's Town Council in chumford and he watched he didn't have anything to do with it he watched as they rezoned the three story apartment buildings MBTA for four-story apartment buildings knowing that nobody would knock down a three-story building that was in the Globe article I thought it was amazing amazingly creative on the part of the municipality trying to avoid the law but not very good in terms of result well but the state is very often has said okay guys that doesn't mean you actually have to build it but yeah even when we're where we're prop we don't have that many vacant Acres like a lot of towns don't have it either but where we're selecting it we think makes a lot of sense you know because of because we have sewer yeah it's you know um the there's a lot of low fruit I'm doing I'm doing a 233 unit 40R in Grafton right next to the train station which is also that been designated as NBTA so you know you can yeah you can still play by the old rules and it's relatively easy but I I like the law but if it's just going to get abused maybe they should rethink it I wish they had done some very different things with it I think the intent is good just a lot of the practicalities of it are really problematic but we're stuck with it we're going to we're going to meet it and we're you know it if it's a you know whatever we're putting out there it's it's going to be standards that we can accept and uh if a project comes along so in fact I just also applied for a grant assuming we get our MBTA regs past uh we're we're I've put in for a grant to uh keep our consultant who which is serid to do design standards for the NBTA standard NBTA requirement figured that'll make it more palatable and if if it's in place we want to make sure we've got better standards better design standards to have a more acceptable project and get get more public amenities out of it hopefully so there's a a little known patch of design standards for 40R projects that bill rail you know Bill ra up in Boston yep so he he he has about 10 of them that he can send to you and because so many of these MBTA projects are going to look like 40R projects they're I I think I have about five or six on my computer I can send them to you I I'll ask Bill yep yeah we were gonna be a fun next couple Town meetings hooray hey and we're also going to be putting the sewer proposal on Elm Street in the fall too so be in the spotlight well we once out a war an article here in conquered to leash cats so let me know when you get there outdoor cats okay that's that's one I've never heard of well I the the journal Nature U had an article couple of five years ago that the average house cat kills couple of hundred Birds a year so I think that was the Genesis you know what we're we're we're seeing a proliferation of rabbits everywhere and I wonder if it's because more people leave their cats indoors like my wife and I they don't our cat doesn't go out you just don't see cats outside much anymore my neighbor used to call cat OC outdoor cat and he would sit on their stoop talking to the I's that they had the indoor cat fun fun yeah okay okay well I'll get the turn a pump everybody so uh yeah right all right we'll see you uh after the Fourth of July so enjoy thank you everyone take care have a great rest of the week everyone you too have a good night everybody byee bye bye thank you