##VIDEO ID:27cp504AQ-w## all right good evening everyone welcome to the select board meeting of September 26 2024 uh in our brand new location as always we're going to start with our Aus we have Kevin is away on business Denise is running late with this crazy traffic out there so we have myself Roger Maran and Alec Rich here uh and we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance I to the flag of the United States of America the one nation God indivisible with Li and justice for all all right before we get started I'm sure youve all noticed we're in a different location a much more roomy got some Elbow Room here I wanted to thank um very much thank all these people the permanent building committee especially um all the town employees who have busted their butts moving everything over the past several days the workers the crews everybody um and especially the residents who voted for this this this was desperately needed and I I hope you can all tell the difference um and also a thank you to the Housing Authority for for housing the select board for the past several months in our meeting meetings we very much appreciate that and hope we don't have to go back there but for good reasons all right so first up we have the appointment of Dean's wicker to the historic district commission so I think we don't have we here so we yeah we need to vote on that uh Mr chair Mr Maron I make a motion that we appoint uh Dean Swicker to the historic district commission second a motion is second all in favor I I okay thank you Mr Z and bear with us with these microphones they're new and invasive here so uh we have a resignation of Brian Spangler from the zoning board of appeals and board of survey so we don't need to vote on that um and the appointment of the treasurer tax collector uh as tax title [Music] custodian all right we don't need to vote on that correct m i you do oh okay Mr chair Mr Marson um all I need is a oh the name's not on there it's it's in the packet here Wendy cocher Wendy C carran I'll make a motion that we appoint uh Wendy carran as the treasur tax collector as the tax title custodian second all in favor I I opposed okay congratulations next up we have minutes from September 12th 2024 do we have any changes or Corrections there no sir all right Mr chair Mr Marson I make a motion we accept the minutes of September 12th second all in favor I opposed all right minutes minutes accepted apologies okay so we're on to licenses and permits we have a vote to approve the application of Mark hasselbarth of Wheaten college for a one-day beer and wine license for a public event at Wheaten College dimple located at 26 East 26 East Main Street Norton from 1:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday October 5th are there any questions on that Mr chairman yes I just wanted to say we do have sign off from the police department now and from the building department um we're still waiting on sign off from the fire department so if it could be subject to final sign offs excellent Mr chair Mr Marson I make a motion that we approve the application of Mark Hassel bath of Wheaten college for a one-day beer and wine license for public event at Wheaten College diple located at 26 East Main Street nor Mass from 1: to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday October 5th subject to final signatures and application second okay motion a second all in favor I I all opposed okay excellent we're tearing through this here and I will try to remember not to talk while I turn my head like that okay next up we have recognition I like this one here recognition of Ralph stefanelli for receiving board member of the Year by nahro state of Massachusetts so Ral you can come on up and you want to do you want to say anything would you like to I'm nervous Mr chair Mr Mercy I would like to uh recognize Ralph stefanelli for demonstrating excellence in advocating for and developing the political and Community Support necessary to ensure the continuation of Housing Programs uh Ralph stefanelli has won the board member of the year uh from the uh n n okay I'm not sure what the acronym is but from NE so um Ralph stefanelli has been a uh an active member of our community for decades and uh the fact that he's here today to accept this award is uh welld deserved and I'm sure overdue so thank you Mr stepan and thank you Roger it's appreciated and there's one word that I would like to leave you with teamw that's what we represent that's what we we represent teamwork for the Housing Authority you have a nice spawn memory of Robert Salvo of Jim denel of Missy of past members it's fun and we get a lot done and millions of dollars later somebody put my name in and here I am receiving this beautiful award I want to thank everybody and thank thank you Roger thank you R what a pleasure thank you very much and congratulations okay next on the agenda we have review and discuss a vote to approve the proposed friendly 40b local initiative project um application and issue of letter of support regarding zero Nukem Street to construct the 74 friendly 40b 3bedroom 2.5 bath townhouse units so I know we've we've seen this presentation a couple times and I think we were all on the same page that um that it would be great for the town and I think we we need to vote to approve uh me signing that letter that letter of support So Mr cheriff Mr Marcy I'll make a motion that we sign a letter of support for the friend 40b at Zero nle Street second okay Motion in the second all in favor I opposed okay excellent so we'll sign that you can come on up and yeah thank you Mr chair and the board and the whole Community First of all cordial congratulation this beautiful place I feel what about it was a little task to find it but it's beautiful so I hope that next time it's full of people but the other thing I just want to say make sure that the process is that now I need to submit that to the um to the authority it's the letter you sign plus the co applications application I have sent you need to sign that application as well just want to make sure and I want to thank you for your support okay thank you very much so let's why don't we why don't we do another motion to include the the signing the application as well does that make sense okay Mr chair Mr Marson I make a motion that we sign the application for the friendly 40b at zero Nukem Street as well as the sign the letter of support Second okay motion of a second all in favor I I okay in my haste to get through this this agenda we skipped over some announcements so let's we go to announcements now thank you Mr chair um we have a a few announcements to make um one is that uh the annual food drive that's uh sponsored by the uh Norton police department the C2 foundation and the uh Boy Scouts is ongoing right now if anybody is interested in having a food B food collection bin at their business in town please uh feel free to contact me personally Al or if you want to be a uh person in your community who's willing to go out and collect food in your community we can help you with the how to do that so anybody who wants to do that uh let me know the collection date is on the 19th of October this year and the food can be dropped off over at the new Nelson Center where they have the cfort of kindness is now located also thank you um also on Sunday September 29th uh from 1: to 4:00 p.m. the Norton fire department will be having a um open house where you can come and uh view the fire apparatus you can uh get the tours of the fire department and uh anybody who wants to take part in that there'll be light refreshments and snacks uh so that is again on September 29th uh 1: to 4:00 p.m. another announcement we have is that the uh Norton Recreation Department is uh again sponsoring the Halloween parade which will be on October 27th it's the 31st Annual chly Halloween parade and it is rain and shine it starts at noon down at the adoro line anybody who's interested can call the recreation department at 508 285 0228 and we are also having uh the Norton kayak company is offering a free event for any Norton veterans on October 6th from 10: to noon at their location over on 140 I'm looking for the address I don't see it uh it's 237 Mansfield Avenue sorry um and so any veterans who are interested you're asked to reserve your spot and you can contact Estelle flet at 28527 or uh email her at EET Norton us.com uh one other announcement I'd like to make is uh we'd like to uh congratulate Audrey michella who had a uh ribbon cutting and the opening of her new business uh blush vanity room at the corner of Park Park Street Park AV and uh West Main Street today um so congratulations to a thanks all right excellent so now we're oh do we don't have do we have Steve here Steve Bishop Mee Steve's not here yet yeah okay so we'll go through the town meeting articles okay so uh you have an updated town meeting uh article list a score sheet showing uh which articles the finance committee has voted on they did vote on article one but it'll have to be reconsidered uh this Monday because we found two more bills uh from last fiscal year um also they voted on the water operating budget amendments and sore operating budget amendments uh there no action on those uh they voted uh engineering study or Design Services for drainage improvements uh $50,000 from free cash and schematic design for the Norton Middle School roof project um $50,000 from free cash um due to the timeline when uh the schools could be hearing from the msba um we would need to do this now because May would be too late and uh if the if the school is chosen I believe the um the reimbursement rate is somewhere around 50.6% and then also um the finance committee voted in support of recommending um the article for the permanent easement to North town properties um that you uh previously had on your agenda so we're still working on uh final numbers for um separation expense and um any budget amendments um I did receive um a letter today from the school department with budget amendments that they're recommending [Music] and M Mr chair um the other um article is uh one of the articles is for the town hall demolition uh we're waiting for the final number from the uh OPM on what the cost will be and U we got that on Monday did you I believe we just got it on Monday it I think it was 1.9 um uh I don't have it with my notes here around 1.9 okay and that was with a 20% contingency um we bumped it up it was 10% contingency we bumped it up to uh to 20% because we thought it was that they bit a little bit low and um the Elm Street water and soore um probably will come to you at your next meeting to talk about that again you've seen the presentations before uh they did have a public information session uh that went well um last night um at the library and there were quite a few uh neighbors there and it was a good discussion okay so um I guess we'll vote on these these here um article number 5 6 9 12 and 17 Maybe that depends on the board though how do you guys feel are these the ones that you said fin con has already voted on yeah all all six of those yes okay one two well the NP bills in your packet you should have the updated score sheet maybe right under right under it oh under it [Music] okay so 569 12 and 17 um one if you could hold off um because we coup so we're going to ask the finom to reconsider that on Monday night Mr chair Mr Marcy I recommend that uh we recommend the Articles 5 6 9 12 and 17 for Town second can we do them like that I think we have to do them separately um you you should do them separ just so you make sure you mention on 9 and 12 50,000 from free cash on both of the Mr chair Mr Baran I recommend we recommend article number five for the uh town meeting [Music] uh okay is there a second second all right motion a second all in favor did you say no action I have a question no action yeah sorry I have a question what is the no action as I what me um they don't have any amendments right now for their budget so we don't need any action on that article it would be not not to move it at town meeting so okay yeah when it comes up then we just wouldn't nobody would move it okay okay so all in favor I I opposed okay Mr chair Mr Maran I recommend that uh we take no action on article number six second Town me uh a second all in favor I I I Mr chair Mr maren I recommend that we recommend $50,000 for engineering study and or Design Services for drainage improvements uh article 9 at Town me second do have to say from free cash yeah from free cash yeah from free cash okay motion the second I'm I'm hesitant on on using the free cash without knowing a lot more about this but um yeah motion of the second all in favor I I I Mr chair Mr Maron I recommend that we recommend article number 12 for the schematic design for the nort Middle School roof project from msba accelerated repair program for $50,000 from free cash second all right there's a motion in a second but I did want to ask Mike did they get bids on this or was this just a um no when you um do the schematic design the msba has um under the repair program they have Architects that they assign to the to do that okay okay this the motion a second all in favor I I I Mr chair Mr markson I recommend that we recommend a permanent easement to Northtown Properties LLC to access and use Town property shown on map 12 parcel 85 West Main Street um at Town me second okay motion is second all in favor I I I all opposed all right so that that's it for these I I would I would just request that um maybe some of these come to us um prior to fincom um the demolition especially of the of the Town Hall um we could talk offline on that but yeah I think some of these should be coming to us first I know last year when we did this we kind of played catch up on them and we should be ahead of the game on it okay so is there anything else on these uh articles okay um now we do have an item about the discolored water but I don't think Mr Bishop is here yet so we'll move on to the the next items here um oh okay uh this this one's on me so we were going to put together um I've been talking about this for a while a uh it started as a committee and now we're going to do it as a working group I've spoken with the chairs of fincom and the school committee we're going to have a working group of the chairs and vice chairs of all three committees to go through and meet monthly go over budget strategic planning and uh potential auditing if needed so um we will be working it's the I don't believe they're going to be open meetings but we will have reports back at each of our individual meetings so everybody knows what's been going on um and that's that's all for that so we don't need to vote on that we chair you to vote on form a committee we're not going to form a committee we we're going to we're going to have the chairs and vice chairs of each of the three boards just meet monthly uh to to create more communication between the three of us I think in the past the three boards have been working not at odds but not together so we need to be more focused on working together and any ideas that come from from those groups we're going to bring to individual boards I know there's a few ideas out there now I don't want to bring up yet because they're not confirmed but okay or are you still on the AR yeah we're still on that okay defin so next up we have a financial discussion that's very very broad so I hope you're ready I'm ready so um just wanted to report that on uh September 18th the free cash was certified I want to thank uh James Po and the finance team um James does a great great work on this and uh it's not many communities that you obtain this certification one week after you MIT the paperwork so I'd like to congratulate them on that work now the free cash was certified at 6,254 39 or uh $1,325 69 more than last year um just some of the major pieces that make that up um we had $500,000 in free cash remaining that we didn't use um in last year's budget um then uh in December we um put in a spending freeze and I know uh Highway Department lost an employee we didn't replace that employee and so with turn backs uh 1,326 596 um motor vehicle excise came in at $900,000 more than anticipated um 300,000 of that was collected in June and um the re there were reimbursements for the train project $9,250 and then the auction sale um $700,000 um that was certified as free cash and also 205,000 uh went back to taxes from the auction uh we didn't know until um the beginning of September or what we could do with that money we were being told until they passed any legislation we had to hold that money in an agency account and it wouldn't be certified as free cash but the legislation passed um in August the end of August they came out with the guidelines in September um in time so that could be certified as free cash and then uh due to the higher interest rates the investment income um was up by 1 million [Music] $572,000 Mr chair um go ahead Mr meron Mr unit are there any of these amounts that you just read off that uh we could have anticipated before uh we went through uh the budget process that we went through last year um not not RAR most of them because like I said with the the auto excise we really don't know he's going out and buying new cars and that a good deal the bills don't go out till March and the the money starts coming in in April May and June and as I said a third of that extra money was collected in June uh which would have uh been after the Tom meeting um we wouldn't have that certified until uh the following the end of the month um and then uh rebates we don't know what rebates we're going to be receiving from uh train the train project um it's been an ongoing project that still has punch list items and hasn't been finalized and completed yet um and as I said on the auction we didn't know what was happening with that um based on that uh Supreme Court decision and we were waiting for the guidelines uh from the state on that um and in the invest income now there's a a lot of different accounts that the town has the the treasurer has done a great job moving money to banks that will pay the higher interest rates and like everyone else we're always watching the speculation on when the Fed was going to lower rates and didn't happen during the year so the rates stayed up instead of 1% that were usually at they were at four so did well on that so one thing I want to point out as well is that there's been a lot of and and I've said this at 100 meetings don't get your news from Facebook but there's so much kind of back and forth going on there last year's cash uh free cash certified was about 5 million is that correct correct for it was exactly 4.92 eight so it was just about 5 million this year was just over 6 million um and you take away that tax title sale of 770,000 you're pretty close to what we had last last year so um there was some some people some officials as well insinuating that this 6.6 million was ridiculously over what we thought was going to come in uh it's just not the case so I hate to bring people back down to reality but we did have more than last year but not a ridiculous amount more so that's my two cents on it anybody else Mr chair Mr mer sorry um one thing I would like to say is that uh I'd like to uh thank our Treasurer James for for the work that he's done to move these uh amounts that we had borrowed in into interest savings accounts so through his efforts and the town manager efforts we were able to acquire that $1.7 million that necessarily we wouldn't have had um otherwise um one of the thing I would like to ask uh the town manager is that uh as far as the excise tax go could you explain how we didn't have a an expectation of uh what we were going to have for excise tax sure well a couple reasons one we don't know who's going to go out and buy new cars and two um so this year say our rxi Auto excise was 900,000 higher than it was last year when we do our projection for revenue for next year we can't increase our Auto excise tax by 900,000 the do will never let that happen they'll instruct us you got to take the average of your last five years you can't just because you're a 900,000 Higher One Year you can't base your revenue on that so we have to average it out we can't just go with the higher number and I'll be the first to admit that I I skew those numbers because I accident ly paid all of our excess taxes late this year so it was after the end of the fiscal year so I'll take the blame on that one that was my fault Mr chair bu a few hundred this a CH okay Miss Miss Lu just the general stat I have no idea what the social media uh stuff is about I don't know the content but as a general rule I would prefer to air on the side of transparency even if that comes with these are the dollar figures we think we might get but this qualifying statement that it might get pulled back cuz XYZ I think the more transparent we can be with the community the better off we are that being said I don't know it changes the outcome at all about where we we're at today but transparency I think goes a long ways with the trust of the community I agree with you 100% on that I was I was referring more to the people that were saying that the 6 million was a ridiculous amount more than what we were supposed to get when it was about a million over last year which is still a lot yeah um that that was what I was referring to not I mean I do think the transparency is is has been lacking and needs to be U we need Improvement great Improvement on that we can give you information and say but we're not clear on these numbers yet because of these qualifying issues that might result right but let's let's give the information still just just one comment on that is that um and I'm sure Brian will uh back me up on this because he he'll come in every year in the springtime and start giving the town C in a hard time ask them what the free cash certification is going to come and they'll say the same thing we're instructed by the do not to tell anyone what the free cash is until the free cash is free cash and certified because they don't want us putting speculative numbers out there that people will hear and then it doesn't come in at that number and it doesn't look good for the town or the do so they tell everyone don't beat all the town accountants don't be divulging any speculative numbers you wait until we certify it as free cash that is true Mr chair Mr Mar um Mr units um was there any process this year that was done differently from any previous years to get us to where we are and does this number that we're at now there's 6.5 million does that help us in moving forward in next but if we don't spend it um no there was no process nothing different with the process matter of fact the town accountant said to me no one in 20 years ever ask me what the free cash is in advance finance committee select board no one's except for the che EX for cheap EX for um and what what the good news is about the free cash um you know we we'll have to look at how we're going to use it my recommendation would be that we uh put a million dollars in our stabilization will get us to our 5% put 1.5 million in capital 125,000 in uh OPB which is a 5,000 increase which we've been doing every year um we'll have hold 280,000 for snow and ice just in case um you know the articles that you approv tonight and any uh supplements that we have to do in fall but the beauty of having this much free cash certified now is if you remain conservative with it and you have $2.5 to $3 million to carry forward you're you're ahead of the game it's not like in we're doing our budget in May and we're saying well let's cut this until October when free cash certification comes in well you have it now and my my recommendation would be like other towns have is that the board agree that up to 50% of the free cash that's carried could be available for the budget in May and then in October you'll have more free cash certified and hopefully we keep remain conservative and we keep that free cash in advance rather than basting our budgets on the hope that free cash comes in October yeah I I'd like to make sure we have that as a discuss topic on our next our next agenda um and I and I honestly I'd like to discuss the free cash and where it's going to go before it gets to fincom or anywhere else I think it should come I think it should come to the select board uh for Direction one question Mr one more question for uh Mike uh could you explain the uh 5% that you talked about in the stabilization account and what where we come up with that figure yeah the um recommendation is that your stabiliz ation account should be 5% of your budget so adding a million we'd be up around uh over $4 million in our stabilization so um 3 and half to 4 million is about 5% of our our budget thank you okay anyone else questions Mr Wiggins yes pet Wiggins on not you can come to the microphone if you want oh hello I'm Peter J wiggin hory may not and people need to get their news from real sources such as yours trilly on Facebook I do a good job informing the town and I love this new town and don't get the news from North neighbors thank you thanks Peter thank you thank you peterk you okay we only have a couple things left here so we're going to go I see Mr Bishop is here so we can go back to the discussion on discolored water complaints the water quality issues and the past treatment so Mr Bish yeah come on up special I think you locked out I think I thought there was going to be quite a few people here with questions so you like out well I'm always uh available if uh certainly uh work with anybody uh just like our staff is our staff is pretty good about working with people with the uh the tanning of the water most recently um was because of uh partly because of the um the higher water levels that we've been having and that brings out some Organics and the Organics that come out of the ground that we can't filter we filter in the iron and magnes that's what that's set up that's what's that made for the plan is and when these Organics came up um all the surrounding towns had issues similar issues as well so with with flushing and infrastructure improvements um it will get better and I'm sure with the flushing that we're doing now um it's I'm I'm hoping that it's getting better but I've been kind of out of the loop for a couple months so um I haven't had an an update um as of yet but I know that's with the with the most recent tanning of the water as we call Y all right is anyone on the have questions I have a couple but do go you go first how you doing Steve um just wanted to see besides the flushing what is a long-term possible remedy is there yeah well uh the uh it's it's a different kind of treatment process so we're our Engineers are working on a a more permanent treatment process we can do something temporary but it's not it's it's just putting a Band-Aid on it so we're trying to look for something that's a little more tangible that's going to be a longterm um for us now so and I apologize I don't have that direct answer for you right now but I will find that out and get back to you guys I'm more than happy to come back and and if you guys have any questions in the future as well you can just send them my way I'd be more than happy to come in front of the board any time thank you Steve anyone else uh Mr um Mr B thank you for coming in tonight this is to be in right now with what's going on with the water in town um my uh one of my questions is uh do you have a a plan in place for uh Improvement of the in infrastructure of the uh water system in our town yeah we have uh plans where we uh lose certain parts of the Town um that are problematic uh we have them on the list of certain years to do unless we're having more problems and we we bump them up as as it were uh but it's it's all it's all money and everything like that we can spend some of Mike's money if we you know we can but no that's it's we do have a plan a plan on uh what streets we uh we replace and problematics areas so so going with that question do you know and and I'm not going to hold you to it because it's right off the top of your head is do you have a plan on Pine Street well Pine Street we already redid that but it's that prob it's the plant that's down the street that I believe that uh that people on that road are having problems with we need the water so we need to have that on we we shut it off anytime like during the winter uh once we we know that we can reach capacity with our other Wells we shut that off so we we don't get impacted as the people on the area don't get impacted as much we want to shut it off but it's also such a smaller yielding well it doesn't it's not feasible to to put a plant there like an iron maganese plant because it it doesn't yield enough and we are looking into that too to see if we can get more water we our Engineers are working on that we actually they've been working on that for a while okay we've been talking about that to do a plant there all right see if we can get more water out of the theer yeah uh when I had asked a question a while back at another meeting I was just a guest at the meeting um after the pipe was was replaced I think it was had to do with the new development um one of the answers that we got was you know it's it's the pipes inside the houses and it's not interior sometimes sometimes it can be I mean I it's it's clearly coming from that well it's it's in the raw and the raw water samples that we get it's higher and iron and magnes once it's diluted into the system with the with the with the the water coming from the plant it's you know it's it's it's diluted and then it's breaking down even further so you're getting a direct flow of it from that and and I I'm not going to speak for I I know I can speak for a lot of people but a lot of people don't call because they're just used to it myself included and my wife included my my whole family we we put a whole house filter on and it still comes through the filter which change it every month and it's supposed to be every six months so uh hopefully there is a plan and you know at a future date we can go over I mean we would love to shut it down right now to to to alleviate all the problems but it's just we need the water right right now and and not just for Pine Street there's a couple other streets that are having the same issues and Y so if there's anything um I don't want to speak for everybody here if there's anything that the select board can do to assist you know if we appreciate we definitely appreciate that and we uh we have we are working on all those all those issues I know um our Engineers are pretty diligent on doing that and we have a great staff so I urge you to call true even if even if it it's it's tiring for you um we our staff is topnotch and they'll come out and do whatever they can to remedy the issue they're very their staff is I I think and I work for the town of mfi and this their staff is phenomenal our staff I should say more oh yeah everybody I dealt with this fantastic no no doubt about that okay uh anyone else uh just a couple more questions Mr is there any concerned with the capacity that we have for uh water um I don't think so right now um the past throws throws a whole thing into it because we've got a shut Wells off when we have P you know in the system or in the in the wells that's what we had to do to well number three off of Newland is it I think and uh so we had to shut that down because of the the P was over the 20 pots per trillion and now EPA is going to dumb it all down to four pots per trillion which no one's going to attain um so we're going to be building plants or whatever we can do to to remedy the the whole past issues uh one more question and could you please just explain what the p is so it's it's it's the forever chemical uh that's been uh dumped in the ground that that's affecting the whole the whole United States uh these big companies back in the day have dumped it in the ground and and it's not easy to remove um there's a couple different ways one is one the most cheapest is carbon uh the town of Manfield it's got a couple of um plants on now P plants on now and uh that's how we remove it over there and we're building our third one now but you once once they dump it down to four everyone's going to be scrambling for all this the Caron a solution and it's going to be crazy it's already crazy Mr chair Mr Steve back to um Pine Street the rest of the development going on around there that with is it py homes that's building the uh um 42 unit or 44 unit community and other development going on around there how is that going to impact water capacity in uh the tainting of the water from that we well I think our I I think our levels um right now I mean if we can get a remedy to number three and and and we can we can have three on we'll be fine uh but um we we'll need to uh look at that with our Engineers I I probably could give you a better answer once I talk to our engineers and and give you a better outlook on that um I can I can stand up here and say I think we're going to be fine but I would rather give you the correct correct answer instead of just throwing a ball of them sure all right anyone else on the board question i' just like to thank Mr for coming in again it's uh not a fun thing to come up here and defend a process that you're going through but I appreciate you coming well I was here before the the plant on and it was really fun then um and uh we've come a long way we still have a lot more work to do we know that and but it's we' between good Staffing and and uh the town the way the town's run and everything like that will'll be we'll get through it but it's just just takes some time and money fortunately okay any questions from the audience U about the water come on just you know the drill direct your questions to us uh Kevin O'Neal uh Mr Bishop is a volunteer member of the commission is that correct um as knowledgeable as he is and as many hats as he wears um I would I would recommend maybe the next time you have this on your agenda to invite the um the superintendent to uh to speak on behalf of the Water and Sewer Department yeah unfortunately the superintendent was was Ill so he he couldn't make it to me yeah great he was he was going to be here gotcha all right any other questions so aside from p and the water painting have wealth three everything's great well we still have the tthm issue which is a byproduct of chlorine and we get those notices that we have that theep mandates you to send out and uh we're in the middle of uh getting a an air radar um in the in the tank over on C Street which should help out with the TGM levels and they do it and they do it every quarter so they do an average of every quarter so you could get a couple good quar but you could still be over just over the average CU they take the average of the whole all four quarters whether it's so that's that's the only bad thing about that the way they structured but the airator will reduce chlorine usage correct it's just it's a byproduct of chlorine the tthm Sor yeah and it's it's Richard AB I believe is one area and it's the water doesn't move and we can't put flush flushers you can't put a flusher on it like we used to do in the back back in the day so bleeder and that was to my point about Pine Street with that extra usage on that that new development that's going to be fully Lo yeah that will create just on its own decrease turbidity it should yes we're hoping yep all right all right thank you very much Mr Bishop for coming in we appreciate it thank you sorry I'm late thank you that's that's okay all right do we have any other business not anticipated I don't think so all right this this this one's been on our agenda for a year almost now going back and forth so we're going to review discuss and vote on the building department permit fees I know um uh we have Mr Ray here that brought this to our attention you want to you can come up first if you'd like second second oh Nick do you want to come up well I think I think let's let's let's do this let's yeah let's have Lucas come up and and let us know he's presenting and then we can go from there thank you I think some of this is in our packets too or so all right you say your name and address then Lucas Ray 276 ta Aven Ria um I just like to read something that I wrote up for this for this meeting so on the topic of the building permit fees this is my fourth time in front of the select board and hopefully the last and just for a quick recap uh for those that don't know noton currently has some of the highest building perent fees in the state we much higher the surrounding comparable towns like Mansfield and Foxboro for example I'm building a um currently building two homes one in new and one in Foxboro both homes are 2,000 s ft and the cost to build both homes is the same same amount my permit fee for the home in Foxboro was $1,512 and my permit fee to build the home in nton was $858 I'm also building an addition in East this permit is for a small addition to Dex siding Roofing Etc that permit fee was $241 that exact same Project based in would have uh cost $1,915 almost 10 times where I see the biggest issue is the smallest projects like the roof siding Windows Etc Mansfield currently charges a flat rate fee of $50 for roof permits foxb charges $75 for roof in Norton fee is based on $10 per thousand of the cost of the job so a $25,000 project on a residential home in Norton would cost homeowners $300 uh compared to Mansfield's 50 and fox bro 75 uh considering that the roofs do not require an inspection uh it seems quite exessive that the homeowners have to pay these high fees now I understand that every town has their own fee schedule and a lot of towns do use the per 1,000 of cost job cost to calculate fees so in a perfect world I'd love to see no one replicate the fee scheduled used by Mansfield especially considering Mansfield as our closest neighbor and also very similar Town per capita and income I'd like to point out that the purpose of these fees is to cover the expenses of the building department the purpose of these fees is not to generate additional revenue for the town currently the town is profiting off of these fees at the expense of the tax pays I would also like to mention that reducing these fees will not uh benefit the contractors I personally add the appropriate fees to each job that I bid on and I am and if I am successful in adjusting these fees to be more comparable to the surrounding towns then I will pass those savings onto my customer I have done a markup which I think is fair a fair way to modify the current fees to get n and more comfortable to surrounding towns and give the tax base some relief um and that's what I've given you as some of the proposals I think it was the second page uh the first thing I'd like to see there's nine proposals the first thing I'd like to see is eliminating all base fees uh the only surrounding town that uses a base Fe is sharing uh roof siding Windows you know should be a flat fee of $50 the same as Mansfield eliminate the requirement for a minimum permit fee change all residential new builds additions alterations to $9 per thousand uh per my mockup this is still significantly higher than Mansfield Foxpro but it does fall in line with several other surrounding towns uh change all the commercial fees to $15 per th000 per mon marup for the mockup we shouldn't be deterring commercial building in town because we have high fees eliminate the $225 minimum fee for after hours inspection eliminate the non-refundable clause on permit fees if I sign a job and pull a permit then the homeowner decides after the fact that they have changed their mind and they do not want to do the project provided I have not sted the job I should be entitled to get a refund on the fee I paid number eight is probably the most important wave all permit fees on buildings owned by the town of Norton this should include all fees including Plumbing electrical building mechanical Etc I've been successful in the past few years in getting the permit fees waved on roof projects I've done for the town buildings but it was brought to my attention that the town paid plumbing permit fees for the new town hall and other buildings one Department should not be paying the other department for a permit fee if the town owns the building those fees should be waved in the cost of those fees should be deducted from the cost of the project and the savings passed on to the tax Bay lastly you know I did a markup on the fee schedule I think the small items um we should just revise them based on the markup I'd like to end with with this as of five to six years ago we had a very fair uh permit fee structure that was all changed under the leadership of the previous uh building inspector I've had a meeting with the town manager Mr the units and he acknowledged that we do not that we do have some of the highest fees but he HED that we could keep those fees in place and he personally told me it was his hope that other towns would eventually catch up to us clearly I disagree with him on this issue I don't feel as though no should be setting the highest Benchmark for permit fees in the surrounding area in a time when we have high inflation high gas high grocery bills High interest rates and the burden placed on the tax pay is to fund this town maybe it's time to write this wrong give the tax pay some relief and bring these fees back down to at least be comparable to the surrounding towns I also understand that because of the recently failed override that some in town government might have not had the appetite to lower these fees so for me personally I'd be interested to see how this vote goes and to see who supports the tax pays of this town and who decides to support the town government led by the town manager all right thank you Mr a does anybody in the board have questions at this point okay only one thing I would like I mean I see we're missing a select one so Kevin apparently isn't here so I think I'm not sure if that makes this vote any different I'm not sure which way you know the select board are going to go with this but I'm not sure if it it's fair to the town to have you know not all you not have all the members of the select board voting okay we we'll keep that in mind yeah thank you thank you okay Nick Nick did you want to come up and say anything I think they might have some questions for you yeah that's fine good evening he how are you doing okay seems like you answer some questions I didn't know if Nick had anything to present but I guess just in general I'm assuming you've had a chance to look at the materials that Lucas has provided and i' like to hear your thoughts on I know that we don't necessarily need to or want to be the lowest certainly in the surrounding towns and we shouldn't be chry picking what our comparisons are based on who is the lowest in the neighboring towns but where do we fall um what are our Fe what are our fees to have these things done Etc inspections done so we've had many discussions myself and Lucas um me and Mike multiple people um my opinion of all this to be honest is whether the fees are are what they are and you select you choose to lower the fees or increase whatever you decide to do it done up to me what the fee schedule is it was implemented in 2018 effective as of January 1st 2019 um it I I've said it before I don't think it's really proper of me to have an opinion as to whether or not we're high or low because it doesn't affect my day-to-day operation um it's your policy to be made um so I don't I don't know if it's really right for me to have a personal opinion um I am also a contractor outside of my position here in other towns um I just pulled a permit in Bridgewater for a residential sign Family Home and I think I my permit VI was over 3 ,000 but it's based off the cost of construction so off the top of my head I don't know what the cost of construction was for that particular project that L is talking about but um it can go either way some towns do it based off a percentage um of the square footage of the project some do it based off of a percentage per thousand like we do um that's kind of I don't think it's right for me to have a personal opinion to be honest with you um they were I will say that they were implemented in 2019 like I said on January 1st 2019 at the time the select board voted to implement those fees I wasn't around so if it was a recommendation from Chris I don't know how that process went what the discussions were um we're about 3 months away from it that being a six year anniversary of that implementation of those fees so um to me it's nothing new they've been in place for six years um but again that's up to you as the board to make that decision if you want to raise lower or remain the [Music] same any other questions I think before Nick had said that looking at our fees we were in the mid-range as you said we weren at the bottom we wer at the top we're the mid-range and as Nick said they haven't increased in six years and uh I'm sure contractors costs have gone up quite a bit most years but we haven't changed our fees in six years okay now I personally see quite a I I'm tending to agree with with Lucas on on that these are a lot higher than comp comparable towns um I don't think that we should be in a position right now to change everything um but I I mean personally I would recommend changing a few things I think right off the bat waving the prmit fees on building own by the town of Norton um that to me is a no-brainer I don't know why that wouldn't that wouldn't be in place already not to interrupt it usually happens I'm guessing we do that yeah so I I would say by policy then I mean I I think it's just it's just and I don't me to cut you off so it's a standard the there was a there was discussions with the the OPM the town manager myself um on the two the new building you're sitting in today and the the COA building for supplemental permits like the mechanical electrical and plumbing permits um I believe it was a suggestion from the OPM for reasons that he discussed with us that those fees get charged but the building permit fees themselves were waiting for these buildings and they are it's a standard practice since I've have taken over the department um for Town Hall buildings to have permit fees waved and I I can say I definitely appreciate that I'm sure we all do I I think and we hope you stay here forever but and and you know Anything could happen in say you leave tomorrow then it's not in place I think that's something that we should put in place um similar to what the water ins that's in place with water and sewer now right yeah um I think it's to me that's a no-brainer um anyone else have thoughts on any changes I agree that some of them myself um seem a little bit out of whack they were High when they were first adopted back in was it 18 19 um I think some of them are a little out of whack comparative to some so M towns some things uh seem like they are you know close middle of the road um the fees into the P fees in in town own municipal buildings I think that 100% in agreement that's a that's a Nob brainer it seems like that um being done anyway policy that was kind of since you've been yeah anytime policy yeah I mean I've always just obviously discussed with Mike before I wave any fee but um Town buildings we've come to an agreement again outside of this the condition with these two buildings with the advice from the OPM but um it's just it be kind of been an Unwritten policy that we've always weighed fees for Town buildings so so my I mean my suggestion um and again we can talk about this would be to make that permanent we wave all the permit fees um on the buildings owned by the town uh as written here you know including Electrical Plumbing building and mechanical um I I don't want to do sweeping I personally would not like to do sweeping changes now I'd maybe like to do a couple uh and revisit it in a year and see if if it made an impact if it helped if it didn't help um that way it's it's not going to be so traumatic to the the fees coming in and we'll see if it helps um so maybe i' suggest wave the the minimum requirement the and the base fees was that number one and number three um and I am personally I would be in favor of um refunding the fees if something like like Lucas had said the project hasn't started yet um I'd be in favor of that too yeah it is in the on the on the fee schedule the town of Norton fee schedule fees and non-refundable and non-transferable contracts may be required but I believe if there's an existential circumstance or something happens in between contractor getting the permit and something happened bring men in the homeowner something happens and they don't end up doing the project is that something that could go right to right to you Mike for a approval of a of a refund cuz obviously yeah would come to me has has that for example happened in the past year or two or you not that I recall we've we've had some some I guess oneoff special circumstances with things have go I've had to go to mic for certain scenarios um we had one a few years back where um contractor started a project and then sold the project and then we had a redesign of the project single family home um comes along with a whole new plan review and and new documents and new submittals right cuz new license new insurance um so we charge a per building per fee but with some of the supplemental feeds to kind of help out with the weighted it right um but special circumstance I always go to mik you know if it's if it's a one offer if it's kind of a a a once in a blue moon kind of a situation um but again that's a once in a movement situation is tough to kind of yeah and as I'm thinking about it too you know like you said you reviewing the you're reviewing everything so even before construction starts so you're actually putting time into it so I wouldn't so in that that scenario I I probably would agree that maybe the full the full permit fee shouldn't be refunded because time has been expended but yeah maybe that's one we we tackle in the future um thinking out a lot here because nobody else is asking questions I know I'm I'm in agreement that there's some that we could tackle now um see how they go and look again in a you know certain time for six months a year or give it a give it a full cycle yeah I'm happy to sit down with whoever and I think the best way to do it is to sit down come up with a proposal right get it in front of the whole board um and whoever else wants to review it and then make it formal whenever you're ready to make it formal but I think changing them off the cuff right now I don't think maybe the right thing to do but that's up to you not me yeah I just a separate vote for each one because you might have a different opinion for each of our I I personally U just one second Mr M yeah I I don't I don't think and I'm speaking for myself I wouldn't want to do you know 10 different things I think one or two um so maybe a couple of us can get together offline and and present a list to the rest of the board and then we can go from there uh we won't have to have you guys back in we can just make that decision whatever you need for I've always tried to make myself available so I'm sorry goad Mr so um I appreciate the work that Mr R has done for all of these and coming before the board four times and I was sitting on the other side of this desk one time when you came in and got this uh fee schedule from you um I would maybe like to see if uh Nick maybe you could look over what is suggested here and maybe if you have any suggestions that we should think about um I I understand you don't want to get involved with this should be this and this should be that as far as fee goes um but if you feel that some of these are way out of line maybe you could help us give us some Direction with that yeah like I said I'd be happy to sit down with with whomever from the board and and Mike and whoever else you want to invite and kind of have that Round Table discussion and and come up with a proposal if that's what you'd like to do yeah what why don't we sit down I mean Lucas has given us a list of nine things that you know to kind of look at um I think we take those and we'll sit down and go through a couple and come up with a few to bring to the board um at this point I feel like this topic has been beaten to death over the the past year um and I'd like to either do something or or say we're going to move on at this point so not vote tonight but I mean let's just right Mr chair can I suggest yes that we revisit all nine of them for a vote and then we all decide which ones we're not going to move all nine of them forward I can't see us all right right not going to but let's all have a decision in which which few are worthwhile moving forward um but let's talk about each of the nine and discuss the merits of each of them individually yeah my thought was to even pair down the n and just but but that's fine with I don't suggest that because you and I might have differences of opinion on which ones we think are the important ons to move forward okay right that makes sense yeah I'm fine with that everybody else is good with that um Mr chair Mr Mary the only thing I would like to U remind everybody is that these nine proposals are U from a single contractor I don't know Mr R have you uh discussed these with uh other contractors and come up with a consensus is this the or is this you you think I've spoken quite a few contractors I'm just the only one motivated enough to make any difference so okay um I've seen you know I'd like to speak again real quick when we're done when next done so sure any other questions Mr chair I personally would like to get all of us together at the table to go over this with Nick way and Mike and whoever wants to be available however however that works Lucas and um I think it will be a lot more fruitful than trying to do it like this right now yeah well I mean let's let's put it on an agenda for um maybe a couple meetings from now give us a month or so to to to figure this out and then we'll go through um I can I'll do one thing because Denise did request I'll make sure that none of these are eliminated from these nine so we might we might add some some different ones on top of it um but just to be fair to the rest of the board and to is not here um that we won't eliminate any of this stuff okay if that if that's okay with you yeah that makes sense all right all right thank you Nick appreciate it Lucas you yeah so just a couple things um so if if the board does plan on meeting I'd prefer to be there you know if the five select board I know where the town manager stands on this I've had a meeting with Steve and and you know Mr alredy over here we've had that meeting I know where he stands on it um you know I'd like to be in that meeting if you know CU this I did bring this to the table there are some things here you know which I feel you these Bas fees I mean we're the only other town of Sharon that has baseed and that was and you know it's Mr I's credit you know he's been a great Ro inspector in town here and this all falls on the previous inspector Mr comic was not great for the time so you know I me and Mr I fre you got a good relationship and you got no no issues with the building inspector in town so just to be clear but you know um and I can understand his position of not taking a personal stance on it which I think is is fair I don't think you can no I I I understand that so but you know if there is a sit down I'd like to be proud of that you know because I have more knowledge on these fees and you know I've done a lot of homework on these and I I know where we you know where we exceed other town in it and you know we do have some fees that are fit so so look I think there's there's definitely some of us that has Merit there's there's no question I just think it needs to be done more um you know a little bit more review and recommendations so my recommendation would be to try to get all five select board members together you know so we're all on the same page if anybody has any know difference of opinion we can try to Hash it out and see if we can get a vote on something yeah well that's that's the plan we we'll have a quick meeting go through this list and it won't be a quick meeting it might be um and and well you know like Denise and I agree with her that that you know we might differ on all this stuff so we can go one by one down these um but yeah we'll have it on next I just don't want to see it get kicked down the road another year I don't I you can ask anybody here I I keep saying I hate I just want to check things off the list and move on um so I hate just taking along with this one I got to say I appreciate your persistence too all right thank you so much we appreciate it all right thank you again Nick okay um that was our last um was our last item now we have the town manager's report yeah I just wanted to um say that the um the town received $29,988 in a FY 25 Municipal Road safety Grant and I don't know if the chief wants to just talk a little bit about what he's going to do with that money good evening it's like a historic nay in in t in Norton for uh moving into this great Professional Building um so we put in for Grants uh you know on a regular basis last year we received about $159,000 just on different grants one of the bigger grants was the uh the mental health clinician that we have which was about $92,000 which is probably one of the best things that has come to the town um but what we received uh recently was a traffic safety Grant you know I always say that we have three main functions community policing handling calls for service and traffic safety um this is not a grant we get every year um but Lieutenant Franco put in for it and there'll be uh basically three things we'll we'll do with the grant there's $1,744 for Traffic Safety enforcement which is offices out on the road um additional offices out on the road doing traffic safety another $7,900 for pedestrian and bike safety um you remember probably several years ago we got a pedestrian Grant where we uh were doing a lot of pedestrian um safety in front of say weaton college uh which coincidentally a uh a week or so ago a student was hit out in front of uh we College oh no and then uh $7,300 for Speed cing devices those are the radar units that you see say in front of um home foods that show you speed limit or Bay Road that show you speed limit North West Street has one will'll be able to purchase two more with that so that's excellent so um when you say uh one of the things you're going to be doing is uh with the pedest pans is that like crosswalk uh infringement and that kind of thing exactly I mean commonly it's no secret you know we'll have somebody that's a decoy we'll have them posed as somebody that's walked crossing the road and when they when a car doesn't stop we radio ahead and have them them stopped it also does with that same decoy it does uh have some um distractive driving that goes along with the people on cell phones and things like that so yeah yeah whenever that whenever they're out there that's it's always for at least a couple weeks later the traffic slows down M every time yeah anyone else just want to thank the chief and the whole department for everything they do for all the Public Safety in town honestly we're lucky to have you guys so thank you thank you thank you Chief you do you have anything else Pik no I wanted to ask I was made aware uh there was a serid um Grant some some sort of Grant did you hear anything about it from B about the flashing 30 mph yeah I sent that to Bob the other day can you can you explain it a little bit more yeah it it's a program um the flashing beacons on the cross blocks it's a program to uh Institute more of those around the region so um I gave it to Bob for the traffic uh Safety Committee they request them apply for that the traffic safety committee see see if they can check into it see if uh we can apply for that yeah there was a deadline on that too right just came in though I think we have another meeting of the traffic uh Safety Committee coming up the beginning of October [Music] okay all right um I approve the warrants as written our next meeting is October 10th 2024 unless we need one before then and I declare under General la chapter 30A section 21 A3 that the purpose of the executive session will be to discuss strategy with respect to potential litigation involving site one regarding the new Street composting facility because discussing this matter in Open Session will have a detrimental effect on the town Town's litigating position and with the board to not return to open session at the conclusion of the executive session Mr chair Mr chair I move that the board go into EX session under General Law chapter 38 21 A3 for the purpose and reason declared by the chair and with the board to not return to open session thereafter second roll call for Denise yes Roger yes Alec yes and iy yes thank you all for coming tother meeting