##VIDEO ID:_IKevkIG9xQ## Thursday August 29th 2024 meeting of the select board um and uh we have to start by a roll call um we have Roger marand uh we have Kevin Snider Denise Luciano Alec rich and myself Steve Hornsby on and we have one item before we're going to go into executive session it's the discussion Andor vote on a potential suspension of licenses operations of New England radio uh I'm sorry New England Rodeo LLC um I think uh nick uh you can take it away if you're you're ready thanks Steve uh good evening everybody so um quick brief synopsis of what's going on currently um this all kind of came to fruition back in May I believe around Memorial Day um the rodeo does two large events every year one to kick off the season around Memorial Day and then one to end the season season kind of the second half or end of September typically they get um a and Jen can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they get a live oh they get an event license through the board and they get a um common Vic license through the select board every year um so every year myself the fire department a representative for the fire department in the uh representative from the Board of Health typically Christian will go out do a site visit um and make notes of anything if anything has changed from the year before um we do not issue formal permit at this point it's it's been just a site visit um and that has been kind of standard since before I was here so this year during Memorial Day there was a bit of a concerning event that happened they had kind of a major influx in attendance um some are in the realm of 3,000 or 4,000 people um I believe they applied for a one-day liquor license for this event um and the liquor license application said they were expecting somewhere between 500 and a th000 people um I don't know if any of you were were notified but there were Vehicles parked along the rail trail there were Vehicles parked in Residence driveways um Police Department fire department got tons of calls and concerns over this this is what triggered ultimately where we're at today after that event we had asked them to come and and sit down at the town hall with some of the department heads myself included to discuss our concerns and hopefully some remedies moving forward to to I guess for lack of better term more legitimize the operation or the the rodeo itself um couple bullet points there are they have some grandstands of some bleachers um that through the building code and I don't have exact code sections on me but through the building code require required to be certified by a structure engineer and have um a maximum capacity or occupancy load marked on the side of each section of bleachers whether that's 40 people 50 people 100 people um that's supposed to be denoted on the side of the bleachers that's not done um at the time of our visit beginning of this year they had two I believe they were 52 foot if you can picture like a 52 foot trailer on the back of a of a tractor truck um that you see driving up and down the highway um they had two of them on site that they had basically cut holes in the side of and built some pressure treated stairs to go up to them and we're using them as standing room or or grand stands for their patrons that come to these events on Saturday nights um there's there's multiple concerns from my side of on the building code standpoint um I know from the fire department side um concerns depending you know for potential overcrowding um God forbid something is was to happen there how are these people going to get out of these trailers safely um and again if they're going to use them we're looking for some type of a certification and an occupancy capacity from a structure engineer and an architect or or a design professional um none of that has been done so um since then and and this was probably beginning of June beginning to middle of June was our first meeting with them after the Memorial Day um situation so since then um there's been some other occasions or notifications that they now have a mechanical bull somewhere on site and some type of a stage inside of a building um that for the last I think I've been there for four years I've been doing this job has not been disclosed to me once um that comes with a whole other slew of building code requirements fire code requirements um that are not met as far as I'm concerned um that we need to at some point we need to certify and legitimate you know legitimize this operation now none of us from the from the town side as department heads want to see the rodeo um be shut down stop operations or go away um that's not our goal or and it's not our mindset here but what the way we're looking at it is we want to get them to a place where we can legitimately issue a valid occupancy permit for the event on a year-to-year basis we can do a yearly inspection like we do with a lot of other assembly um use buildings in town um just to make sure that every year things are remaining the same and if they're going to grow or expand that it's done you know the right way according to the code requirements um so back in the beginning of August we had another meeting and it was discussed that as of August 31st we would have at least step one which would be the use and occupancy review from a registered design professional architect engineering firm that would give us a a maximum occupancy load for their breaches and if they could certify the trailers for the trailers as well um and then step two or step one B which would come after that sometime in September would be a certified parking plan from a civil engineer based off of the maximum number of of patrons they're allowed to have um they could then design a parking area that would be suitable for that maximum number of of attendees for each specific event um tomorrow is August 30th and I got an email yesterday on my day off I had I had opened my emails and I had an email from an architectural firm stating that they were under contract as of yesterday and um that they're scheduled to come to the site I believe as of next week to start their site visit in their review um so you know where just at a point now where where we feel something needs to something needs to get pushed in the right direction it's been since Memorial Day when this big event happened and the concern was brought to their attention and now we're going June July and August um and still don't have anything I will tell you that I believe it was sometime in July they had hired a civil engineer to come up with a preliminary parking plan that preliminary parking plan proposed I think about 985 parking spots now we're all you probably do the quick math at about a thousand parking spots with four people per vehicle that gives them about 4,000 people on site for any given event on a Saturday and from my standpoint doing quick math from I I don't believe they're going to have a capacity of 4,000 people um I think they'll be well under that capacity um so I just wanted to come here just a quick brief update um so everybody this wasn't a surprise um if it gets to the point where there's a ceased deist or a stop work order issued um because of of of not having these certifications in place um in a timely fashion we're willing to work with them um you know obviously as we do with everybody in town and any business in town um but at some point you know we feel that they need to be held accountable and we need to this is a serious concern um from a public safety and wellness standpoint so um that's why I'm here just to give you that brief update and kind of a quick background um and then I'll leave it from there if anybody has any questions all right Nick you you would said that they they just hired an engineer yesterday contract the day before I think it would yeah I was off yesterday um with the family and the kids but I had my iPad and at some point I open my iPad and noticed there was an email from an architectural firm um that basically stated that uh they're now officially under contract with the New England Rodeo um and they were planning to get out there next week originally to um I'm at my computer I'm going to try to pull it up that they were planning on getting out to the site during the first week of September to perform their initial review and Analysis um and then I responded back on I'm sorry this was on Tuesday afternoon Tuesday morning I responded back Tuesday afternoon um and explain the deadline and then they responded back yesterday um and said they're going to move some stuff around and try to get out there um end of this week or um beginning of next to try to push us through as quick as they can all right um also when when does their season end do you know I believe they go through September so I think it's the end of September so so I mean to personally um I'm I'm a huge fan of the place and I'd like to see them have as many people as they possibly can there but safely and I I am concerned that if somebody's finally coming this week their season's over in September anyways um is it going to be pushed to next year too that's that's my concern honestly um is the safety of people and like I said I've been there a dozens of times with my family and and I'd hate to get you know and I know that area and I and I don't see 4,000 people in that area like you said Nick um so I know we have somebody uh that's attending that would like to speak but um does the board have any questions for next Mr chair go ahead Mr Rich uh Nick I I believe you already had a conversation with uh Greg what do you recommend moving forward um as a potential remedy so Greg you want me to you want to take this you want me to take it um yeah for you Mr chair I think it would make sense if I took this one um so you know as you correctly point out you know we only have a few weeks left in this particular season um but in my conversations um with Nick and with the deputy fire chief um they expressed some pretty serious concerns about the conditions at this property um and in particular um based on past experience they believe that um an end of the season event is going to occur that may be at least as big as the beginning of the Season event was and um you know if that is the case then there is certainly urgency to having some of these issues addressed you know these are are vital life safety issues um particularly with respect to these these bleachers um and also with respect to you know parking overcrowding things of that nature so you know my recommendation to Nick was that um up until this point you know things have been relatively informal he's tried to meet with them he's exchanged emails with them um but I think at this point it's time for him to actually issue a formal order to correct um with a A you know definite deadline for getting at least these preliminary things done um and with that you know comes a warning that if they do not meet those deadlines then the consequences are um the potential that they'll be shut down for the rest of the year um hopefully it's not going to get to that but you know that's that's the direction that this is going so you know we want to sort of Step Up gradually we've tried to deal with them informally didn't quite work now it's time to be more formal issue an order if that doesn't work um you know I think that Nick is going to be kind of backed into a corner in having to issue with cease and desist um now looking more longterm um the select board is the the licensing board with respect to um common vict um entertainment alcohol and um the public amusements and my suggestion would be that prior to issuing these licenses next year that there be a you know a comprehensive meeting with building police fire Health to make sure that everyone's requirements are met before the select board issues any licenses for them to operate next year so that we don't find ourselves you know halfway through the season and having this discussion again you know during the offseason is the time when this should be dealt with um and you know can be dealt with um comprehensively by the board um now that being said you know if if you're of the belief that that this is so um imminent that there is an imminent threat to to Public Safety here you do have the authority to um schedule a public hearing and to either um revoke suspend or modify the licenses that have already been issued and so that's you know another option that you have at this point if um some of these other remedies are not successful so I'm not gonna speak for the board I'll speak for myself I'm not sure I'm ready to revoke any license at this point but I I am concerned about the end of the year event um and the safety of that especially with what happened with Memorial Day and uh and and it's been three months and no kind of answers as to what's going to happen if if that kind of event happens again so again I'll throw it up to the board if there's any other questions another one Mr chair go ahead Mr rich I everybody I think is this this event different than the memorial day one is this just a one night event as opposed to the one that was you know the Memorial Day weekend is this a different scale of event so to the best of my knowledge um there's no special licensing typically for their bigger events they will apply for like a one-day liquor license um or something like that when they expect an or anticipate a larger crowd or a special event I don't believe there's anything like that scheduled for this weekend um so our expectation is that this is just your your standard um event as if it was any other weekend of their season outside of the first or the last um event and I will say I do want to add um you know for the most part they have been not for the most part they have been very respectful when they've been in contact with Town officials um you know they they I give them credit um you know for the most part when we ask for something to get done they are responsive my concern and the concern of my fellow department heads is that you know we're now going on three months or or plus since this initial concern was discussed at Town Hall um you know and in at what point you know do we really legitimately have to have some type of of occupancy load or or Max Capacity here so that um you know we can all sleep all at night or determine you know through through whether it's the police chief or the fire chief or um the Board of Health or whoever you know if we need certain details or we need certain other special requirements based off of how many people they're safely allowed to have through the building code so that's kind of where we're at I I don't want it to sound like they've been um disrespectful or not responsive to us they have been for the most part um I just think we're at we're at a Crossroads where we're looking for something sooner than later um and they've known about this for months now so I was hoping um you know to have something by now we don't that's why I'm here Mr chair go ahead so Nick um I know that u in one of the emails they said that uh by September 6th I believe that they expected to have some preliminary results back from that engineering firm um if if we use that as the date that we have to have information by and we can act after that as take the next step if we need to is that does that sound reasonable I yeah I think that's I think that would be reasonable Mr chair Mr shair M yeah I'd like to recommend sending the formal notice now right and then asking for them to take action perhaps by that September 6 dat but say the notice sooner rather than later um but my other question was Nick sounds like the issues that I'm hearing are parking the race structure and the mechanical bull is that is that correct or those are the three concerning issues those are three of multiple uh the the biggest issue I guess there's a 1 a and a 1B to the biggest issue the biggest issue is we need a legitimate capacity on how many people they can safely fit in their bleachers and if they can C get those trailers certified for a standing room um through a structure engineer and safe Ingress and egress out of them for patrons a capacity for that that would be step one a step 1B would then be um a a parking plan yes so so my onea I I have concerns right with certainly disaster happened this weekend if they have an event right and one of those trailers Falls and people are injured right we know there's an issue is there a way that we can um prohibit the use of the bleachers and the rais trailers or whatever those are uh until such time as they do it but still allow them to have the event because at one time when they first started wasn't it just like lawn chairs that people brought and sat in the field or whatever right so yeah um the so I don't I don't foresee um and and I'm not a structure engineer U but from from my expertise from a building code standpoint I don't foresee the bleachers themselves having too much of an issue or a concern as far as being able to be used the the bleachers they have they have a couple sets of wooden bleachers that been there for a while and then I think in the last year or two they got a couple um I call them prefabricated like steel or metal bleaches I think they have three sections that were donated by somebody um I I from what I see it's more of a certification and a Max Capacity um for those sections I don't think I have would have an issue saying the bleaches um can be used um I I think I I don't disagree that the trailers um should be should be prohibited until further investigation whether it's a a structure engineer that certifies them and then we have a capacity or the ball is in the air that a structure engineer may come back and say yeah no this isn't going to work um and they may have to get removed through that type of of process um but I through I mean attorney corbo can can maybe work with me um one way or the other to put um some type of a letter that would that would say that in so many words right that the bleachers are are feasible for the weekend but the trailers are off limits um I would I would I would support that fully is that possible Mr uh yes that's uh certainly within the um the building inspector's author to you know um as part of his order prohibit use of certain features that he knows are unsafe and have not been properly permitted um so I can certainly help him uh with the language for that and I think missano too to your to your point um with speaking with attorney Cobo earlier our our plan um is to have um a correction order issued um hopefully by end of business day tomorrow great thanks okay um as I said before I know somebody Kelly Pina wants to speak but I I I want to let the board get their questions out first and then I'll let her speak immediately after that um Kevin did you have anything to add nope you guys covered everything I wanted to ask so we're good okay okay thank you for your patience Kelly you can um let us know who you are and and um and what you'd like to say can you guys hear me yes yes um is it possible to put my video on because I I'm Kelly Pina I'm the Strategic advisor to New England rodeo and the owner Elias is here as well yeah are you not able to I only gave me the option to unmute not to put on my camera okay um Jen can you handle that or is that something that I contacting Charlene as we speak okay yeah I don't have the option to do it well well I can kind of begin and if um if you get the chance to put the camera on I'd greatly appreciate it if not completely understandable um so I want to just start off with a brief history of what what's been going on and what Elias and I have been working on you know we''ve been in contact with Nick we we did have a few circumstances that weren't the most fortunate um in this most past year um to first off address the Memorial Day event is an event that we would hold almost twice a year um it was a Brazilian Focus rodeo and that is when we would um obtain a one day beer and wine license and sell it so that was the event that that kind of started the The Catalyst to say um this event we were completely shocked with the amount of people that um arrived we did not expect this many people to come um I personally filled out the beer and wine license if I thought we were going to have nearly that many people I would have absolutely put the correct number that that was not ill intended you know we've always tried to be uh upfront with our intentions and we're not going to be hosting any more Brazilian rodeos or Brazilian events at this Norton property we are looking into alternative options because our ultimate goal is to be a community event where people want to be there um we did have some difficulties not going to lie with the parking um we also did have some instruction from the local police officers on where to park um so can I can I I'm sorry to interrupt um for that initial event in um Memorial Day did you you said you sold tickets prior to that there was some sold ahead of time but they were all the the VIP tickets were sold ahead of time and then everything else was sold at the door so do you happen to know how many tickets were sold beforehand 1,000 tickets okay I'm sorry go ahead I didn't mean to interrupt you then close the day and everybody tried to go that so so what what happened that particular day there was supposed to be another Brazilian event in the Massachusetts area um and that ended up getting shut down so a lot more people turned up to our event that we were not exped but you know that's that's all in the past we've we've learned a lot from it um and we're we're not moving forward with that in the town of Norton by only means our end of the year event that is coming up is currently scheduled for September 28th England rodeo finals um we don't serve alcohol we don't do anything really um different or special from what we do except for it's a little bit longer performance um so usually we open our gates a little bit earlier and we have a different ax going on but we don't get a general Rush um it's never really been over 1500 people Max um and usually by September people are been to the rodeo and are cold and kind of it you know it's it's old news but also the grand finale so it's we get mixed people but there isn't going to be any um potential for for alcohol issues you know parking we've never had a problem until that individual event um so I I do want to provide some other updates in particular we have been working we got the preliminary parking assessment done by the engineer um we are now in the process um we've been in in working with the other engineering firm for the capacity regulations um and they came out and did multiple hours of work yesterday came out and then today they've come out as well um preliminary they're siging results I believe on the 5th or 6th um and then we will have our um parking planner who did an initial review come back and revise that so we have been in contact with them um as an somebody who comes from an engineering background myself um capacity Engineers unfortunately are not as readily available as we would like them to be um we also have had a structural engineer out and they reviewed the trailers um they are going to be marking them up as good to use and safe and sound um with their capacity to hold heavy weight um they have not found anything structurally promising or promiscuous and we have had those trailers on site for numerous years um the only suggestion that is being made is to have them um tied down like hurricane proof just because of the heavy winds which is something we are working with our engineer to be able to move forward and pursue so we we are trying to you know do our best it it it is difficult nobody at this Rodeo um does the rodeo unfortunately is our full-time job we we would love to be able to it's a passion of ours but we're trying to take every step possible to um correct and ramify any any issues in the past you know we take this extremely seriously um as for the um for the access and egress my my background besides engineering is health and safety and emergency planning so it is something that I am extremely sensitive to as well as Elias um you know ultimately it's not a good show if somebody gets hurt so we will be also working on our evacuation planning um Ure to ensure that we can have everyone safe and sound uh we we also have had the stage um in previous years the stage isn't new it has just been moved to the large indoor barn and we've had our mechanical Bowl on site for close to 10 years eight or 10 I would say um so I I I do apologize if there were something that we were not person Ally aware of the fact that we needed to to bring these things up but you know it it it definitely is a learning process and we appreciate your patience with us we we know it's not easy and we just want to be able to keep going and um you know celebrate this special piece of uh of town in Norton that you know we always joke we're one of the best kept secrets but hopefully keep it bringing more people into Norton do does anybody have any kind of questions for Elias and I we we'd love to be able to um to assist so first thank you for for that Kelly um I know this came off as one side in the beginning and and and you wanted to speak so I'm glad you got the chance to uh again for me personally I I I love the rodeo my family loves it we go all the time I think you guys are are great for Norton great for the town um my personal concern would be the safety issues and I think I don't want to speak for everybody else but I'm sure Nick feels the same way uh just wants to make sure everybody's safe um so it that being said anybody from the board have any questions for Kelly Mr chair Mr Maron um not necessarily a question but just want to let them know that uh this board has uh continuously been Pro business in town and we look forward for the businesses to work with us in town um but our first and utmost concern is for the safety of the public um so if um we have our officials in town saying that there's a a problem that needs to be addressed then um ultimately that's the first thing that needs to happen so we need to address those issues that have been brought up and um I have been to the rodeo myself I've seen these trailers um I have the same concerns as everybody else has with them um I just hope that there there's some way that we can Rectify these issues so that the rodeo can continue many years into the future absolutely and we are we are not opposed to the formal corrective order or order to correct you know that's just something we haven't received we we honestly didn't know about this meeting till almost uh at 4M today so just anything formalized we'd greatly appreciate it that way we can make sure we're moving forward and not missing any of the details I think some of the face-to-face Communications at Town Hall have been great but to have something in writing will definitely help us um fix any concerns or issues especially when it comes to the health and safety of the general public and our contestants so so Kelly just just so you're aware was aware um I did ask that question about about two hours ago probably around 4:00 uh if you had been notified about this meeting tonight and uh nobody was certain of that so um as far as as as tonight I was not going to accept any motions or any kind of stop stop work or anything like that tonight just because I didn't feel that you had proper notification thank you so much really appr appreciate that consideration okay um so any anyone else on the board have a any questions for Kelly I think one just want to thank her for her time thank you all right um I think somebody else I believe wanted to speak was it sh going once okay okay is there anything so I think I don't think we need to take any action I think I think we all agree that well is that Cheyenne okay um so Nick I mean I would continue and and send that letter were we talking about two weeks yeah so um we we'll put a a corrective action order together um between myself and attorney corbo tomorrow um and we'll get it out to Kelly and Elias and then uh you know we'll work through a date I think originally talking this morning or this afternoon with attorney corobo we were looking at next Thursday but um if if you want to push it to the 12th of September um I think that's up to your discretion Mr chair Mr cat so so are we talking about restricting the use of the trailers um um and then sending a letter um so restricting the use of the trailers for this weekend and the following weekend and then hopefully it's resolved by the 12th is that where we're you know we have or at least we have capacity information by then I'm just trying to get I'm just trying to get my arms around the timeline and what we're suggesting so y um so yeah to answer that question Mr Snider the the trailers the use of the trailers is going to be restricted until we have a full review um of them in in in a Max Capacity and tie downs and and everything that comes along with it um as Kelly said it sounds like they're already working with somebody through that but um the trailers aren't going to are going to stay off limits until we can achieve what is going to be needed to safely have them be occupied um and then from there I I think from my standpoint you know I'll work with with Kelly and Elias but I think um originally we were talking next Thursday but um you know it sounds like they're ahead of it so if they think if they think in their email that as of next Friday the 6th we'll have their initial capacity review done then we can put our corrective action order that states that date um and then based off of what they provide us um next week we can we can work with you know either an extension to a later date or um whatever the case may be I will say that next Friday Fridays are as we all know are are not um extensive days here at Town Hall I guess is the right word to say right so um I will just ask Kelly if there's if there's any chance remote chance that you could get that to me on on Thursday the 5th I believe it is the fifth um on Thursday the 5th it would be greatly appreciated but if if it has to be um the morning of the 6th and I'm I'm fine with that too and and the the corrective order will reflect those dates okay um and the only other thing I want to add to is um if the end of the year event is going to be significantly large um with with the Memorial Day one with the Memorial Day one you had like you said a th000 VIPs um that I think was above what was authorized anyways by the liquor license so um maybe reach out to the town and let them know hey we got a ridiculous amount of people coming in let's revise this reach out to Nick reach out to us um so we we can get the proper in there I mean we may need extra extra details police details EXT you know fire on call uh something just in case we want to make sure everybody's safe uh Nick yep um I just want to let you know that obviously this board um is uh in full support of your actions and thank you for looking into this and uh helping us to be more aware of it I appreciate what you're doing there yeah thank you and I appreciate that and I hope again I said at the beginning I'm I'm not um you know I think a lot of you know me by now I'm not interested in running around town shutting things down um you know my job when push come to shove my job is to make sure that you know the resident of this the residents of this town and the people coming this town to to enjoy the amenities we have are safe doing so um and this is something we feel strong about I mean working with Kelly and Elias is something we're more than happy to do um with anybody in town but uh again it's just it's good to have everybody you know up to speed and on the same page and I but you know obviously us as department heads we appreciate the support so thank you for that Roger and the rest of you on the board well we appreciate you bringing that to our attention and and you hit the nail on the head you're not looking to shut people down I I've seen other building inspectors that are really just walking around trying to shut people down and you in my experience at least with you in the past year or so has been the complete opposite you try to work with everybody to make it to make it work um so yeah it's very much appreciated thank you for that and and New England Rodeo as well I mean I feel like they're you know they want to work with you from what it sounds like and um you know let's let's hope for the best here all right do we have anybody else that would like to speak otherwise I have to read something all right so uh I declare under general laws chapter 30A section 21 A2 that the purpose of the executive session will be to discuss the strategy with respect to negotiations with non-union Personnel I.E Town manager because a discussion of the strategy in Open Session could compromise the purpose of the executive session and with the board not to return to open session at the conclusion of the executive session okay all right that's make you to leave thank you everybody have a good [Music] night tell you know how to get in touch with me so thanks guys take care thank you everybody we have a motion anybody print that out to read it oh did you just read it print it out no there has to be a motion I read my part and then there's a motion by the member all right hang on a second I didn't read it hold on I got it Kevin's got it uh I move that the board go into executive session under General law uh chapter 3A section uh 21 uh 21 A2 for the purposes and reasons declared by the chair and with the board not to return to open session thereafter second okay uh Roger yes Denise yes Kevin yes Alec yes and IM yes