all right with it being uh almost 5:30 it's uh like to open up the meeting Water Commission everyone please rise I pledge algi to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay thank everybody for coming down to a water commission's meeting um we'll start things off with some minutes we've got uh the screen looking at them we good looking up um we got one set of minutes January 9th guys got any questions about it or anything no no all right I move to approve the meeting minutes of the January 9th meeting of the Town Norton Board of waren Commissioners I second all favor hi again good job Brooke I know she's not here but thank you Brook I apologize I asked to print something out yeah I took over um probably sign actually today and I have this big put all my the other guy that came here was like on the B Brian he's running late though that's why I brought an with him have you met Anna so I brought nice to meet you yeah so anyway um I brought it um I'm asking her to print out at least my agenda I might not have all the backup uh to present to you guys yeah I spent all day put it together I'll be fine I'm recover definitely good to see you yeah it'll be all it'll all be fine okay um thank you right a short agenda so there is a couple changes if possible okay y um as far as I know zarine Street will still be here um 1922 na is on the fence they have another meeting that they're leaving okay they may come in a little bit later I know Tara was requesting to actually go first if possible she has to attend a different meeting later as well no problem with that guys having a problem with that okay all right Tara you can you hear us if we have if we have voice she's muted right now how you doing she's mut I think we she looks different she looks a little muted too she looks a little greenish blue M but we're muted so she can't hear us oh no that's host Tara are you there I don't think we're muted no we're not well we can do superintendent until we she is not ready the the she yeah yeah didn't think she was going on so that's fine okay we can jump over to whatever you want to do well we can do a a few superintendent updates we'll get a break free then we'll break free and I is she good she yeah she's run into the restroom real quick I should have read that before you no that's okay it's okay so we'll pretend that we never fair enough there she is hi hi Cara hi guys how you doing ter I didn't read your text I think I heard something when I just came on he you know what else you didn't hear I left all my files back at the office which includes the thing that you needed me to get signed so I don't have that with me that was your one job I know my one job one job my one job they don't have I'll bring it back tomorrow I'm coming back tomorrow I'll see these guys tomorrow right so they can I can I can s if you need to swing by signed hi Tara you're you got the floor all right definitely didn't realize it was SP first but okay so I I sent you guys all an email today uh with the copy of the weal or amendment number one uh we wanted to just kind of re redo that entire Amendment we had that signed I want to say almost two years ago at this point um and then we found out we did receive the op class funding and then we need to kind of work through that whole thing that um with that so uh put a lot of detail in that email at least to kind of just chat through uh the step-by-step process that we've kind of started out with this year in 2024 if you will and what's been approved by UPA and we're moving forward with the application structure so good news is that we have a path forward long and short we did need to go after Falls quotes for the drilling work so we can get that paid for out of this this grant um we did find out through town hall that unfortunately since we spent the monies already through a short-term baring process for well five and six that that's not reimbursable through town hall at least that's their their their stake on it so we're just using that money towards the match portion of this gramp and then because of the uh potential future P pass work we're talking about treatment over F three we worked out with EPA that we're modifying the scope a little bit to include the posos treatment so so the original Grant was for water quality improvements at the Wells 4 five and six and it was going to be for replacement of those Wells and now that you've already replaced five and six we're going to continue with well four and then do a quick modification of the project scope to include uh water quality over at well three as well so last year we talked to them about doing some work for Wells one and three anyway they had already indicated that you know it's all part of water system and that was the main goal of this was to provide you know better drinking water quality for the town of North so uh we've got a great path forward and um also have you know can maximize that Grant which was 1.47 Million to kind go towards Improvement so combo that into the posos uh conversation I think Frank's got that on his agenda too but including that email we are looking towards going for p funding through for design work and then continuing on uh through an srf program for construction uh for whatever we find during our design Alternatives analysis which is the best option for you guys to do or with uh to kind of do some treatment over at well 3 and or potentially go to treatment at the for p class treatment over at well SP five and six as well so uh so good news at least on the EPA front and finally moving forward which is great to dealing this for three four years now or so and we didn't think we had the funding we did have the funding that everybody thought we didn't have it so we got it it's secured it's definitely po you just need to now access it and provide them with an updated modification project modification and the full application which we've got all our info right now to go for so um in the next few weeks we'll hopefully have that in sending it into EPA for a draft review first with some comma period and then that will submit the official so I'm hoping by next meeting I'll have much better update with where we sit with the actual application process awesome um so that kind of covers well four I know ceve was supposed to bring the papay work but he didn't um but we did have I don't know if anybody had any questions regarding the actual uh document itself the only things we modified were updating the scope with um the Frank civan quote so we went up for three quotes that was around 40,000 or so more than what we had originally got a quote from them back in 2021 uh and then we put our scope together so what was the jump years update what was the jump what was the jump why why the 40 increase what's what what just costs yeah so overall I mean number one just you know drilling costs each year does I mean this is a pretty pretty big well replacement um the cost of materials has gone up and uh I think you know there's a little bit of labor on the first job that he he gave us a quote before it finished five and six um it's just it's kind of where you're at at this point with with the low so um you know we we competitively went out to get three cles thatp was the low to around 210,000 or so um and then obviously it's been two years so we had to You Know cover some of our expenses uh in cost increases and then on top of it we're adding in a whole um portion of just assistance with this this EPA gra Rec has putting application [Music] together so do we have a copy of that contract that we could review and we could approve it and we could sign it to one copy of the amendment I only have one all right thank thank you and if anybody individually has any questions feel free to just respond back to my Emil today see if I can said overing the copies tomorrow sign if you have questions no problem okay all right thanks Dara y I think um okay so now as well for um Frank I might be steing some your stund because I don't know like go first but go ahead so we've been working a lot on the p as as we talked about before we're also um helping you guys with the water quality so um we we sent in um some information to Frank for this review regarding just continuing trying to sample on a qu Bas we'll go out there with your staff with the operators when they do the THM sampling and potentially do our own sampling at at several sites just to kind of have a apples apples comparison throughout the system you guys do your your four sites during testing um we would like to add on a bunch of sample sites too to just kind of get an idea of where thms are forming throughout your system uh to kind of counterbalance it obviously we we've also got the signed contract for the Iration the tank aeration project moving forward with that we're also moving forward with the storage analysis study and a future tank uh replacement over at Cottage Street to kind of go through the evaluation first and then terine you got about 6 million gallons of storage in town and a little over a million 1.3 1.4 or so around your your high than average you know usage so there's an awful lot of storage um so we're just kind of do a full storage analysis to figure out exactly what we can do with this replacement tank so that's all in the works as well um we've talk to Frank a know toown meeting in May there's going to be some reappropriation of funding that can be used towards some of the P work and some other items uh you know like I said we're going to go for grant funding for for the design through the D SF U fund PE boss design projects um I know Frank who's doing a lot of testing over well 3 I'm going to let him update you on exactly where where the water department stands on that but overall you know we're really trying to take a holistic look at your water system and start to fine tune and get into exactly what's going on with your system and try to help reduce those thms and and certainly take a harder look at the posos we did that presentation to you guys you know several months back as well so uh I'll moveing forward and Hing get the Grant application into DP in the next week or two and uh we'll keep you posted on that have po some good updates for the meeting as well on that um I think that's pretty much it though I try to keep it short and sweet because I know you're GNA be here for a while withu no I didn't bring any of it so all right any other questions on uh on water that yeah that's fine do we want to make a motion to do that and that way we can sign it tomorrow night or is that something we have to make a motion for this or we're just signing it this is just a copy that I made is this the document that you didn't bring that we could sign this one yeah yeah that's orinal and tomorrow night we can sign it okay um that's my recommendation you good with that y have you seen it Frank I have okay okay I would like to make a motion to approve amendment number one to the agreement for Engineering Services between the Tomy Norton and West and Samson Engineers for well for replacement project you want to P them amount just for the fun um third page [Applause] P um this amount right yeah in the amount of$ 48,50 I second all in favor I I so we're not signing this one we're going to wait to sign your original if he remembers yep all contingent can't be too early I got to Good Luck yeah Tara any uh time frame on the uh ation moving forward I know there was a question that was asked by others previously about that um yeah so we got our signed contract in February and I think look that up but um we had six months to do that design and and work our plan would be to kind of bid it you know end of the year and see if anybody we at but I sorry I don't have that uh right now is that a competitive market that we should be concerned about the time of year to bid it or uh pretty simple installation I mean there's only a couple have two to three okay any other questions I think we yeah easy thanks D easy thanks Tera yeah problem Jump Right In if you're ready absolutely okay we'll jump over to uh as Ty mentioned uh updates on posos um we had mentioned that uh by spring or close to Spring that we would need to put our three back online to maintain you uh basically the uh the system demand that time is obviously moving closer and closer um we've been in conversations with the engineers and with mass D um we do need to provide information to the residents uh in the form of another public notice for d uh when we have a change in status which would be the change would be putting that well back online um the new notice will go out is going to look different from the original this one's going to be a postcard with a web link on it possibly with an additional uh attachment for a QR code and that's going to bring you directly to a copy of that um public notice separate from actually just bringing you to the website and then you have to search for it so they want a direct link going forward um with that um in addition to the public notice um they were actually requiring us to construct a construct or provide a water filling location uh for residents that are concerned with what the potential people could be in the distribution system when that well goes back online um we know that we only exceeded by one part per trillion compared to many other communities who you know have exceeded by double or triple digits um so you know it makes sense that one could assume that the P level in the distribution system is extremely low based on the blend of 6 million gallons of water that we have uh but nevertheless we're going to build and we are almost complete with um building our own filling station which was uh done in approved location over in front of the water treatment facility on Plain Street um after speaking with mass D um other communities have done similar operations where they've allowed um residents to come actually to the treatment facility and fill a fill a bottle or bottles uh we don't have the opportunity to do that based on the layout of our facility and you know the uh the access road is very tight so we've come up with the second best option which is actually to have a tap coming directly from that facility going to this location um you know it's going to be it's going to be undercover um similar to a small shed or or something nothing nothing elaborate enough to get the job done keep it easily keep it cleaned um the has recommended that uh it actually be staffed um we've reached out to them in in multiple um different meetings asking for uh a recommendation or what other communities have done because we're not the only one with probably the last one to actually Implement something like this we've been very lucky with our posos um we we've been told that you know it's basically up to us but they will get back to us with a minimum recommendation so what is the staff required to do that has to be there just to watch it they want the staff to verify that the vessels being filled are sterile or approved okay um obviously we don't want somebody bringing you know soda bottles milk jugs stuff things like that that obviously create poor water will they need have some kind of certification or training or just we say they're good I think it's just common sense ask maybe um um and I'm just spitballing maybe the Council of the Aging have someone uh from them maybe they can work off their taxes type of deal if that's even a possibility I don't know I'm just spitballing I think if it becomes a long-term uh thing that we provide that might be an option the initial discussions we had with them they wanted somebody that was well educated in the background of beos being a water technician somebody can explain basically the operations of our distribution system and why they feel bringing it the why we and mass D approve that location you know based on how the distribution system works so bringing someone in and trying to explain that to them while they're explaining it to somebody else it it could be you know a challenge next question are we are we equipped to staff that depending on what the minimum Staffing will be yes um we obviously will more than likely have it open during normal business hours right now we're looking at possibly doing one late night per a week and possibly one weekend day for a certain undetermined amount of hours okay um try and cover everybody um I think uh it will be used heavily at first as it's you know it's something new it's it's something um and we'll see where it goes from there obviously there are some new regulations that are in the works from Mass D and EPA that uh could change the whole dynamics of how this is all working right now um um thankfully the water that we've been testing from well 3 while it's off the posos levels have been well below the MCL um it's either a combination of changes in the aquifer from not having the well basically running continuously with the other operations that we've had or you know it could have been that one hit that we took was actually a bad bottle it's it's not uncommon there is a range of uh plus and minus on each sample that's taken it's very possible that change when EPA kicks in right exactly so it is it's a work in progress um you know I was of operations still be to be determined um we do have a letter off to masty EP with a draft template for what we think there should be some information on our website to educate the residents more than what's typically right there now um including a graph to show what our sample results have been and will be moving forward at that particular location at the water treatment facility and at well one if we continue to use well one now just to be open with the public let them know what's there um we also explained how each location is um sampled differently based on the levels of results that you see so in the beginning back in 2022 I believe it was when we started sampling each location was tested quarterly if that location tested under 10 parts per trillion you get a approve for reduced monitoring if you were above the 10 you considered you needed to be on an increased monitoring cuz you could Trend quickly towards the 20 parts per trillion um Wells one four five and six were reduced monitoring well three stayed on increased monitoring when you take a sample each month that one month is not the results for that quarter you take the average of the three samples and that's determines what your levels are for that quarter uh because there are fluctuations based on time of year um drought you know floods everything like that so you know like I said well three came in at 21 parts per trillion we had there was one high there was one low and one right in the middle yeah um we haven't seen anything similar to that since we've been testing since it's been off and we hope it's going to you know remain that way you know um operations of other Wells Upstream from us uh while they were offline in theory it would allow more chemicals to travel down the aquifer to somebody else that's roaring further down which would be RW 3 and now that those other facili have going back online providing treatment to the residents there they're pulling that water so we may never see an exceedance again and if that does happen this filling facility that we're putting in isn't required to be in place so it's it's it's satisfying the needs right now it'll meet the regulations when it goes in um you subject to to change with uh regulations from D or EPA um well three right now remains offline um waiting for that approval of that public notice and the website loation uh that was sent to Boston maybe a week ago John or at least middle of last week um what are our wells running now are we are we good shape I mean they running 20 they're not running 24/7 are they no we are about 17 18 hours right now um obviously with the heavy rains nobody needs to do anything um we are slowly starting to tick up obviously now with the daylight savings has changed you know we're seeing a little bit more activity going on um but the status that we're at now we we won't be able to start the spring flushing program without having that well online and meet system demand so that's why we sent the letter off at the beginning of the month hopefully we'll have approval to have everything roll into place you know by next week then that would mean uh we asked the printers to get the Public Notices sent out and that next step after that would be put well 3 online and put that Filling Station online so that we could start flushing at the end of the month possibly late on Eastern night that's if everything falls in line if not we're going to kick the the start of the flushing program down the road slightly um we are going to have to modify it again slightly than what the actual printed program tells us to do um but with some of the routine flushing we've done for a quarterly flushing uh some of the flow tests that we've seen every indic a is we can start further away from the water treatment facility than we typically would so we'll be able to buy some time by doing roads just slightly outside of the the normal starting range so we're we're in a good spot um I think I've mentioned before that well one was back online after the aggressive cleaning process um we're actually seeing some very impressive iron aines samper results there um after the flooding rains we did see an increase um so when not sure if that's going to be the new normal or if we're going to actually Trend back down after after the flood waters uh you know subside a little bit so we're going to keep an eye on that um if possible that may trigger another MCL violation like we had in the past and we do a public post to uh make notification to the public that we exceeded the3 milligram per liter for Mages um it's an aesthetic problem it's not a it's not a health concern in unless you startop getting into heavy heavy you know uh influx of that um it's in Daily vitamins it it's it's kind of a natural occurrence in in all water um so that's to be determined as far as what those results do there uh but again we need that water from that well just as bad as we need that water from well 3 a pretty limited War we have um and then the last quick thing here um we mentioned at a previous meeting that um we were performing our quarterly samples uh quarterly flushing for our THM samples and uh dead end flushing we uh we completed those and as I mentioned before with previous rounds being higher even if we get a perfect number there is still the chance that we're going to exceed the long running locational average it's Mr Bernstein's favorite term um so I do not have those results yet um hopefully any day now we're hoping to have them by this meeting and um again like Tara had mentioned we're still working towards the Iration and I think we're going to be on the bubble of exceeding and not exceeding even with the flushing that we do um until that ation goes in and then we can redirect you know the air rated water to areas that will have higher water age um right now we're very limited of what we can do and the flow rates to bring it across town with having you know basically those two WS are offline during this process so still the possibility of having an exceedance even if we get a a low number for the quarter which is kind of unfortunate just the way that that system works areas that we're getting the High um the dead ends systems um you know like I said we're out there at least at a minimum every quarter you know flushing those we see good chlorine residuals the residuals stay for a length of time but um you know the water age goes up because there's not a lot of use on those dead ends yeah so we still got the flushes the little flush things on them didn't we have flush set up we do set up um actual devices on there to have a continuously low FL low flow rate come out of them and we flush hydrates to that area cuz we have a determined end point and uh you know we've seen water quality improve drastically with this quarterly flushing that we do um you I don't think you're going to see them the numbers as low as we used to um just based on the the system and the Dynamics of how everything flows from A to B you get a bottleneck in the center of town so that's why we're continuously flushing that out um you know and obviously as temperatures rise we have to increase the chlorine um that should subside as I mentioned I think the the last meeting we had the a um the from DDP to lower the ph we're still working on a steady steady decline on that so once we get the PH down to where we've seen previous numbers in the 72 74 range we'll need less chlorine to meet the same disinfection level so work in progress we can't shock the system just by dropping it right you going ramp a very negative effect on what we're trying to do how did all the lead and coppers come back we did not have an exceedence but we did not get the quantity that no I knew that have a tough time yeah no was fine that's great so we that's going to go into CCR um that we had a yep a reporting violation right for not obtaining the required amount of samples so that is all I have I believe we have um Outpost Farm is here if you want to all right um the gentlemen or people from um outport o mom at zero Dean Street you would like to step on up and uh if you could um you get a seat yes this is the engineer I'm the owner this is the engineer okay um he thank you very much sorry I don't have much to say anyway thank you hi hey everybody hi he everybody me okay y yes yep okay great uh just by way of introduction uh Eric Das registered professional engineer with strong point engineering um here for zero Dean Street which is affectionately referred to as Outpost Farm um I'm going to share the screen and just to refresh memory we were before you guys uh sometime couple months back it's been a while at this um just to refresh memory uh this is plan as it lays out this is Dean Street small cacs off of their servicing for houses orx um we discussed taing to the main water Ling on Dean Street when we were here before uh there were some concerns because of this material in the t uh but we determined that we were able to connect move through the planning and conservation um processes and we are before you folks now that those are approved so we know that we don't have anything left to change and this is basically a snapshot of what we're proposing uh we are coming in with an eight um off of of this road particular Road here uh with a hydrant at the end uh we are coming in again with an eight off of this particular road with a hydrant at the end and at the start and we are looping them together uh I believe six um Frank and I had discussed this times he had given some comments we incorporate all those into the plan so I think we've hit all the bars but certainly glad to answer any questions or hear any comments you folks may have yeah I think the only question that came up and it was answered uh by one of your other persons was the The Distance on the cross country line and I believe it came in at 682 ft is what I have written okay that was about the only thing I saw that wasn't on the plans but that's the the um line between the two here there's a break so you wouldn't know right right pretty straightforward I've already talked with the fire department they approved the location of the first hydrant here um that's going to actually help with the distance between the existing hydrants on Dean Street by shortening that down um the distance in with the hydrants at the end obviously typical re of not worried about that cuz I'm not worried about that though yeah okay yeah Val valved off three-way clusters at at either Loop um hot tap at the street which was approved previous at a previous meeting yep I remember that each individual service having its own shut off and separation of appears to be appropriate just a formality yeah looks pretty straight forward I reviewed this drawing earlier with Frank yeah fine okay good job actually thank so we need to give a final approval on these yeah we need approval and probably a signature on the plan so we can keep them on file here okay um you guys got any more questions about them or are we good we good oh I think I think this is good yeah I agree um I would like to make a motion to approve the final plans as dated January 29th 2024 for the water connections for Outpost Farm zero Dean Street for strongpoint engineering I second detail all in favor I I good job not to put you on the spot but is there any idea of when the project may start or is it on hold for a while well we've been wait waiting for this approval and uh there's a buyer okay and they have 20 days from today to close on the property very good um so hopefully um they'll be starting soon I mean I don't care when they start do you want us to sign y we can keep where are we signing on this exactly any somewhere on the bottom yeah that'd be great and then I can take a picture of it because the buyer wants to it's oh no pictures piur I know not a I saw you down in the post office by the way there was a picture of you hope you see all right well J thank you everybody I thank you thanks thanks Eric appreciate it thanks ER thank you every been a very uh uh nice process to go through we're the friendly board you're the friendly board I was afraid five years ago you would like this I mean much better now see eight families are going to enjoy living in there well it's a great town great town yeah my son lives on 109 Street oh nice and he likes it here can you get a picture of that oh yeah can I a [Applause] picture get this to work sorry to take up all your time no you're good beautiful thank you everybody problem appreciate it thank you all right we have um people from I do not see them here I think we move on on theone works I'm on the phone I apologize I had a meeting in PA River I apologize no worries not a problem this I have three you can just uh let let us know who you are and um and then you can we can take it from there thank you okay so uh good evening my name is Peter leoy I work with DNL Design Group out of Milford Mass um here tonight representing Loa building courp uh they're out of uh opale Mass um I can I can give you a brief overall the plan if you have a plan out we do yeah we do pretty small but okay so um so basically we have four duplex slots a common Drive coming off of old um so basically what we're proposing is we're proposing uh an 8 in duct liion Loop that goes around goes up the common drive across lot two and then down the lot line between Lots one and two and it connects back into Old C we also proposing to we're proposing to have to talk Frank we're exing 8 to the duplex on four and then there'll be a hydrant at the end y of that line and then also a hydrant on lot to at that intersection and then we're proposing the two water surfaces to come off prior to that hydrant unlock FL to the to the suplex in the back 4 years2 H the street so you have the hydr on the lot two is at the corner of lot two and the lot four going out back is that correct it's just we have the small print in front of us that is yeah yeah no it's the intersection of the driveway on two and four yes the fire chief wanted that location that's the reason why we put the extra one here okay y That's what you would say anything near the beginning of the road no these services are actually going to be fed through the center that's a service going to this side here this is a service going to that one this service to there and this is off the other one there so that's approximately 500 ft off the road or so it's it's less than 500 ft but that's exactly where the fire department required one to that's where I was going based on the layout of the existing structures that here and they don't need to put one here and here there is an existing one out here okay um an older hydrant so it's covered from from multiple multiple angles good but this is isn't showing one out here at all right it's hard to say on the small print yeah I can't the extension of the the water man going out to lot four which side is the hydrant on before the two Services break off it's just hard to see on the print down the left like uh Frank required Frank requested that it would be put on the left side of the driveway are those two different water lines going down there originally there were two services that were going to run all the way from this intersection to feed okay so now that's going to be one to the hydr then split the concern was they were going to be too long and no way to maintain quality and the spaghetti one exactly so by replacing those two with the one water main and then breaking off before the actual driveway start that was the the recommendation that was in place so do you tap those Services before the hydrant prior to the H okay good yeah okay so the hydrant is like the very end of yeah so that quality flush that out good okay it's pretty cut and dry mhm okay are we approving this today or it would be preferred if we could yeah okay um not being able to see no sir the notation clearly should we say contingent on the full set the full set of plans okay then um what's the date of this one 372 23 all right I will make a motion to approve the plans dated 3723 for 19 192 ton AV for DNL Design Group um contingent on reviewing the final plans uh when we see them is that what you want Frank that is exactly what we re we haven't voted for them yet but okay I second all in favor you can thank you can thank okay thank you thank you have a good day thank you appreciate it okay thank you very much thanks bye have a good night all right yeah easy pretty basic originally we had tried to have them replace a section of the water M out there on Old taav it was extremely costly to do that section based on what he's trying to build I end up printing all these things out at the very end of my day you it's on the one of our we going to be replacing so who knows when that will fall in line they are they going to hot have that just like you guys proove on Dean Street yep yeah Dean Street AC as well correct so what they use the U the stainless steel te should offset some of the thrust they work yeah yeah all right Save The Best For Last you I got a lot hey you said Anna was going to talk to make sure I say it right oh jeez and help with the and help with the audio visual Motion in you guys left me all sort of time you flew through everything else I expected to be under more time pressure than this do you need that now's no pressure yeah do you need that PowerPoint up so at some point that'll yes um so the biggest thing I want to talk about tonight is Elm Street um so we have a meeting with the select board tomorrow night we've got a Point put together to walk them through um where we're at what we're looking for what we're asking for and I want to run through that um with you guys tonight so I think I let's go through some of the other items that I typically just some housekeeping on some of the other items uh and then we'll come back to a discussion on Elm Street um so Holly Road nolwood um so it sounds Frank it sounds like National Grid is supposed to be out there this week on Friday to install the meter at Holly Road that's the email that I saw today so Bruno I believe Bruno has been in contact with somebody about that trying to get that coordinate so I would trying to do is get the final startup out there um so just the um so those generators are in place as soon as the gas meter uh is in um we'll schedule a startup so hopefully that's going to be wrapped up soon W cob Street phase one generator replacement uh also on Friday the new block heater is scheduled to be installed and that's been an ongoing process they keep finding leaks it's been a little you know Frank I know it's been frustrating but I will say they continue to respond and send people out they are doing something instead of just letting it sit there correct yeah this caterpillar what was this um no Coler Coler right so it's Fall River Electric but the generator is colar okay did I read that this block heater is actually a different part or is it literally the same exact one that they're substituting no it's a different it's a different style right and I have I have a real nice description of it in my folder that I didn't bring but what what was the like recirc and I don't know this that's electrical so I don't know this stuff but what did they say Frank it was like you it's like a he element that's in there now is a static heating element basically the the fluid that's in there Heats and the the theory is that basically the Heat's going to push the fluid away and circulate it through the block it doesn't work that way so you have a real bad hot spot on the top hose where it connects because it's not making its way through the Block it's just sitting there so all of our other um systems that have generators that require a heater have what's called a circulat pump okay so it physically has a little electric pump to to circulate the the hot temperature coolant through the entire block okay it just eliminates the the hot and so what's going on now is when it runs you get a drip and you get a little bit of leakage every time the generator run each time it runs yeah which you see in a 20-year-old generator that's probably all over the place but not a brand new one and they this is their third they tried to just fix it and now they just go into a whole this is all warranty stuff right this is all yeah they not even on warranty we haven't accepted it yet so yeah no it's all covered yeah yeah so after we accept it then you got a year of warranty so so anyway it's been it's frustrating and and I think Fall River is as frustrated as anybody it's you know it's for whatever reason so anyway that's being taken care of as far as we know Friday um and we're hopeful that this time it will work and then we can close that project up um we did send you the asilt drawings Frank it's pretty basic but you know just with the new components where the stuff is on the walls and stuff and and where everything is so if you have any questions on that let us know but you should have everything you need um for that um cob Street Phase 2 we have no movement right now since since the last meeting we're waiting um for bisco to get back to us on this bypass option um that they're proposing so we followed up again today so we'll we'll see if we can push them to get an answer but um and what their schedule is to get out there I don't know yet but they had talked about I think like may I think they had talked about being out there so um so hopefully that's going to be happening um I think I'll come back to the so I do want to go into the two peer reviews but I want to do the Elm Street talk first and then we'll talk so we've got the reservoir the zero Reservoir and the zero Mansfield AB that um we have advanced reviewing um those and so we can discuss those um we met with the Norton Public Schools a couple weeks ago John was there um this is more in relation to they they need to get rid of their treatment plan at the middle school de commmission the plant um it's um there are parts that need replacement significant costs and they know they ultimately want to get rid of that so they've asked us um to put a scope and cost together to give them some options um Readers Digest one the first thing they're looking at is can they because their flows are so low they had to build a treatment plant because when you do the title five flows it says you're going to have 20,000 gallons per day they're only seeing 2,000 gallons a day at the plant espe since we took the high school and the L school off of that plant and into the sewer so one thought is to try and a quick fix is to instead of fixing the equipment that needs to be fixed is to retrofit the system they have to a Title 5 system and bypass the treatment plant and then gets um for a temporary solution and so send it still to the leeching field that they currently use but without treatment just with primary treatment go through the tank take the solids out and then it would just function like a Title 5 system system which would no longer be D's jurisdiction would be local border Health that would only be a temporary solution um the longterm solution is to connect to the Sewer right U because we we talk about many times the infrastructure is there um so another short-term solution is for them instead of taking the effluent from the septic tank and pumping it into the leeching field is to just you know put a pumping system in either use some of the pumps that they already have there or put in a pump system that'll just take their flow and pump it into that Force main that used to come from the high school and to them get them off their treatment plant and connected to the Sewer the bigger thing is we just need to make sure that longterm there's a solution that works for everyone I mean the you know this commission wants to know what the long-term solution is for a pump station in that area that will not only serve the middle school but will serve some of the other residents in that area so they're looking for what can we do right now now um with an understanding of how that'll phase into whatever the future plan is for those sewers if that makes sense yeah so we're looking to get them a scope um and fee to do that work and it's it's a hot item because they need to get the treatment plan is is not doing what it's supposed to right now so they need they need to and they are dying to get it decommissioned and offline so um so that's what's going on with them um so I think Elm stre is next so yeah if you want to load what do we need to do so if you just go to the bottom yeah there you go perfect you should just be able to hit the arrows oh did it go away it's not her first Roo I had it up there I can get it up no problem did I forget that too did I forget to make a power PL this is why he wanted to trial do it tomorrow night got a job down the C no at some base and sandwich good job John called me the other day he says oh back in the game un superintendent are you kidding me unal must had his license taken away said screen before whatever happen I I don't know what happen I don't shows you how much I use power can hear you guys talking about [Music] the who's that that's Tera oh T are you still here just you I I could hear the mumbling in the background pretty clearly okay can you see the presentation I you no we're not sharing our screen I don't think I think it's just for us can we share the screen probably turn the camera on it the camera is turned on it sounds like a job for an engineer I didn't go to college knows what's going on you see the presentation look at that we have the technology excellent all right so you want to set it up as the slideshow and we'll just walk through it and we can go oh we have handouts too right so I had Anna bring the handouts so we do have those thank you Anna I was just going to say that yep I put her in charge of everything yeah next time and basically if you guys want to take notes or anything there's three right there on the um you say take notes yeah I wasn't talking to you it's just for the general public um so you can follow along on those if you have any questions and we'll I'm just kind of we we'll go through it slow and we can talk as go but I'll just kind of present it as I Envision presenting it tomorrow night and then uh we'll go from there what are we looking for for the selction so we have a town meeting article we have a an article on the warrant article 10 uh to fund the construction of the Elm Street uh water and sewer improvements project and we want their support um we want them to understand it and to support it um and then we want to have me them to support it so this all came out when Paul was around right that what started with that right and then Marie maybe dabbed with it and now and I understand we don't a planner at the current time correct the Selectmen that were involved with Paul are they the Selectmen now the same people I believe there's been a few changes since then right so the answer is they probably have no idea what we're talking about so that's and that's what you'll see with the I don't know I'm going to find out you know I'm trying to just hit the high points before that so and John what have you told the selectman or or Michael or anything about Elm Street I mean what do they know so Mike knows a lot M fully aware of what's going on and then the other thing is um the finance committee is that next after this it will be another step correct okay because in reality if we we need Finance approval most of the we need the selectman's approval I would imagine Yep this is kind of the beginning of the public Outreach process letting the select board know and anybody that tunes into the select board meetings um where we're at but this is for this town meeting coming up in a couple months right y okay thank you yeah all right so um go ahead you can oh can so to advance them it's just the arrows should be all right then just go to the now the TV is not responding there it is there you go it's just laging excellent all right all right so this is just the basic cover slide so we're here to talk about the Elm Street sewer uh and water Expansion Project we're going to cover tonight just to give you uh a snapshot of what we're going to talk about so we'll give you an overview and some background of uh of this infrastructure Improvement project um really the main reason we're here is because we put a warrant article in um for town meeting um so we want to talk about that article uh and then you know what are the biggest drivers behind getting support of an article how much is it going to cost and how are we going to pay for it so we'll talk about um some of the uh where we're at right now in terms of the the anticipated costs and some options for how to pay for it and then we'll just give you an update on uh where we're going from here the current design process and and where we're going from here so the basic project uh has about 700 I'm sorry 6700 ft um of 8in gravity sewer pipe includes pipe on Elm Street Reservoir Street and Miller Terrace and provides um fronts about 70 properties uh in that area it includes one uh Municipal Wastewater Pump Station um to collect and transport that flow into the existing uh sewer system uh and it also includes 4,500 linear feet of watermate improvements on Elm Street so that's just your basic scope of what we're talking about so to take a step back um you know why are we even here um currently in the design the design is en entirely um funded by grants through Mass Works uh and the economic development bill um the town planner I should say Town planners uh Paul originally uh and Maria after him were instrumental in submitting applications um to get this project um supported through grants so the design that we're currently working on and talking about uh tonight is entirely funded um through grants uh and as part of the as we're in the design process here they also put forward um an application to Grant a piece of this uh construction uh and we've been awarded 3 and A5 million Grant um for construction of the project which um obviously will help significantly uh in terms of how we're going to pay for this project uh and just uh as a note at the bottom here the real driving force the Catalyst behind the grants is the potential Redevelopment at 47 Elm Street um the old Reen Barton property um is really why the funding agencies are supporting the project um they're all about um housing job creation um you know Economic Development and that's what this this parcel could provide so I just going to run quickly through this I'm assuming you're probably well familiar with the history uh and current condition out at 47 Elm Street um you know basically from you know 1972 until 2015 it was the reen Barton uh Mill site and then uh 2015 it went into receivership so at this point nobody owns the property it's just there uh and then the rest of this is just some clean up you know EPA has been involved D's been involved the town has taken steps to at least uh make the site safe right now um there's still a lot of work to be done to make it a developable site and something that can be improved for the betterment of the community as a whole um and that's why you know we've gone forward with these U Grant Monies to get these Grant monies and uh are well into the design and looking uh or here tonight to talk about actually going a construction with this work so looking back at the town so like I said it's the you know the town um planners that have spearheaded this effort to get these Grant monies if you go back to the 2021 master plan this parcel was identified as a priority economic Target area uh the master plan also talks about um investing in infrastructure to promote Economic Development um which is exactly what we're talking about here um so devco North America um is has been and is currently pursuing ownership of the property um they've got a lot of hurdles um to go through to to determine if it's a if it's a viable U business venture for them obviously um The Proposal the current proposal that's on the table is a development of about 150 apartments and 10,000 square feet of commercial space um but there significant um remediation work required um just to get to the point um where they can do anything with the property uh and the infrastructure improvements my camera's right in my line of view um water and sewer are necessary so yeah so the infrastructure improvements that we're talking about here are are essential for the property to be redeveloped to its full potential what we're talking about here thank this is the case yeah yeah um so that's some background on the property um and what you know why why the town is this far along in pursuing the infrastructure improvements out there so to that end um the Water and Sewer Commission submitted uh an article um for town meeting um for the warrant and as my understanding on the warrant it is now article 10 um the key elements are uh the amount requested right now which um we've got 8.6 million in there we'll talk more about the dollars you know we're still um Gathering some final information to to to make sure we have a good grasp on the cost and again for construction of public sewers and water mains uh to serve public and private properties um in the project area we talked about and then there's some language about the different ways um you know authorization on different ways that the monies um will be um recovered or how they'll pay how we'll pay back the debt on the project and we'll talk more about these different options on the next slide I think so as far as budgeted cost cost recovery so they so right now now where we're at now the budgeted costs uh the watermain work is somewhere in the two to $2.3 million range and the sewer work is in the 5.6 to $6.3 million range um we certainly you know we have some more and we'll talk more about the ongoing design work and some of the critical steps that are being taken over the next month that will hone in a little more on on the actual numbers um so that puts your total budgeted cost range between 7.6 and 8.6 million that's why the current article is shown as for the 8.6 million we want to make sure that we have enough to um to build the Project based on how the final design comes out so how do we recover those costs so the biggest piece is the grant um you know we would hate to not take advantage of the $3.5 million Grant that's been put out there so that comes right off the top now the water piece um all or a portion of that can and is intended to be recovered um through water rates um the sewer bed the sewer piece or at least a portion of it um will be recovered through the assessment of sewer betterments basically all the properties fronted along the way um will be assessed um a betterment as we did for West Main Street the most recent project um running some numbers right now based on the assessment um that was used for West Main Street of 16,000 per unit um we've got about 100 betterment units um so that equates to 1.6 million so if you run those numbers together and take your two numbers you know the range 7.6 to 8.6 and subtract these out that leaves about a half a million to a million and a half remaining share and it's important to point out that in the betterments that does not include the reen Barton property we've not included them in that calculation um because that's that's a piece that kind of needs to be discussed um how we would do that and there's also um Town property this will provide the ability um for that whole Municipal complex area to tie into sewer um so there's some benefit to the town um in that regard as well there are the properties on Elm Street obviously that will benefit um from having the sewer available to them is the $2 million from the water rates is that projected over time or something or how's that number come how do you come up with that number so the so the 20year debt of the sewer so each year whatever the um whatever is due on that piece of it and that's you know that's going to be whatever the actual you know so we the contract is going to have to be is going to be split up as a schedule A and A schedule B water work and Sewer work right you know and we looked at it if you were to build the two projects separately you know there's definitely an economy of scale pav in the road once yeah absolutely um so you know if you were to do the water itself and the sewer itself you know we were looking at you know you probably be looking at more like $9 to1 million to do the two of them independently if that makes sense so there's some savings but yeah as far as the water rates you know that's you know we gave you a range of two to 2.3 million for the water workk whatever it is that's that's what can come off of the water rates you know and that needs to be clear in the um in the Construction contract so that money can be tracked appropriately those those expenditures um you know the real discussion I think with this obviously with the remaining Shar is how how is that going to be recovered so if you want to assess the readen Barton property um we can certainly do that and then it gets assess to the property and there's nobody to pay that right because nobody owns the property right so you could then attach it to the property that somebody wants to buy it that Deb is attached to it the concern there being is there's already a lot of liability and cost that's one one more reason not to buy it if you if you apply that strictly in that way there is certainly value to whoever develops that property obviously there's significant value to having the sewer and the water the water is a big deal too having the increased water pressure fire protection and all of that um you know another thought is if and when that property is developed you're going to have at least probably well above $1,000 a year $100,000 a year in taxes that you're now going to realize from that property if you could year mark when the property's developed the taxes over the first you know 20 some odd years or whatever it takes or a portion of the taxes to pay down the debt associated with that property you know the costs that get allocated to that property um just some thoughts you know the other option um is to put some of the share on the tax rate and acknowledge that this benefits the town as a whole to have this infrastructure out there which it does and the ability for this property to build to its full potential for someone to come in and and and really do something valuable out there the other thing about the the remaining share is that's all eaten up you know as obviously if we come in on the lower end you know the lower the costs come in the lower that money that needs to be recovered is right um so that's kind of that's a summary of where we're at with the costs and how they may be recovered if you want to go to the next slide so where we're at right right now um these are some of the key elements that are going to drive uh that are driving that cost and that cost range you know as far as where the pump station's going to go we've looked at several options um the best one right now um is on what is it land preservation Society land so it's basically at the zero realm street it's the corner of Miller Terrace and Elm Street we've met with the um conservation agent we've talked we've talked with uh with John about this um we've met with the land preservation Society out on site um so far you know all talks are good everybody's amenable we we're we're leaning towards that this is where it's going to go we have to get out there and do some Wetlands delineations there are wetlands on the property on the back of the property so we need to see how much separation we have um from Wetlands to construct the uh the pump station at this site uh the other thing that's driving the cost is the force main routing um you know initially we were looking at this is connecting up into the system on Reservoir Street um we've done some Downstream capacity um calculations and that um the infrastructure up there uh the existing infrastructure up there uh can't support all the flow from this area um so the force man would actually have to run past it and all the way to Cobb Street which would be a significant length um we're also looking at going the other way with the Force main coming across Elm Street and into um the system that comes from the pump station at Wheaten and uh and pumps up Pine in Plain Street um significantly shorter route um that's on the lower end of the cost that's when we took looked at the lower end of the cost Spectrum so we're just finalizing the Hydraulics um and making sure that we can do that as we're doing the value engineering on this and trying to you know make it as economically feasible as possible um another big thing is the subsurface data so we are scheduled to do borings out there starting on Monday so we will be getting you know collecting um the data on on what we um Can anticipate out there we have some preliminary data from a few years ago but we're going to get some deeper um um borings and and just figure out what we're up against in terms of you know are we dealing with rock or ledge are we dealing with groundwater um and what are the soils like um because that's one of the biggest drivers in a linear project of this nature you know what are the soil conditions like as we go so that's kind of the stuff that's ongoing right now and we'll have some answers and information soon on that stuff go to the next slide so the next steps you know with that information in hand we finalize our design report we get the uh permits you know most right at this point the only permit we're envisioning is with concom whether it be an RDA or notice of intent uh the public Outreach process you know which we're kind of you know that's what tonight is part of is is getting the information out there um making sure um the residents and the voters are aware of what we're doing why we're doing it um we'll finalize the contract documents we need to have the design um closed out by the end of the fiscal year that's when the the grant monies um are through the end of this fiscal year so and that's the track that we're on right now we'll be um done with the design uh and ready to ready to talk about Construction in come June and then the timeline to complete would be you know number one is obviously the biggest um Lynch bin here town meeting authorization so if we get this support to meeting in May we'll have this design complete in June we could bid the job as early as August star construction uh it's about a one year uh we anticipate a one year from uh from breaking ground until the project is complete uh and ready for use so if all goes according to this schedule um we'd have a Serv system ready for use in October 2025 nice that'd be awesome I think that's it when is the town hall going to be done soon August got to be soon so what are they doing temporarily for their SE so they built a septic system they so they didn't yeah we had discussions with them or we tried to you know we reached out and they the schedules didn't align they had been through they weren't interested in Waiting obviously they were they were going and so I don't know I never get the details on how much money they had to put in into the um setic system out there okay it could be an issue you know I don't know how there could be a discussion of there could be some uh unhappy people about that the fact that now here we are but well we're not really anywhere yet that's the that's the thing yeah where it is what it is but I think it still benefits um the town to get that system connected in and we are looking to design the system such that you know that you know we can take a pipe from wherever that system that they're putting in now is and run it by gravity into our system and down to the pump station okay and eventually we could take portion of East Main Street as well right yep y so I have a couple questions yes please so you said that on the initial slide that there are 70 properties on Elm Street so that's Elm and Reservoir and Military but you're using 100 properties for the betterment so the betterment units so some of the properties there's a lot of duplexes out there so a betterment unit is equivalent to one residential unit okay so it translates to asking that question because I want to make sure you know the so I had written edus yeah equivalent dwelling so it's equivalent dwelling unit so I should well wait for the question AR I can explain I just want to make sure you have the answer that's all through my purpose my questions are exactly that y the size of the water size and age of the existing water man in Elm Street old it's small could do you think we could have a better answer than that you're probably looking at late 40s early 50s on the water M and it's varying materials and potentially varying sizes but majority of it is 6 and 8 in and if we had many watermain brakes on Elm Street we don't say that word sir okay I retract I retract my question we've had issues on our we've had issues of various ranges there um from Services coming loose from the pipe to actual failures of sections and dirty water as well yes yes okay by the way I thought a presentation I didn't know anything about reading Biden so I was very good that you brought that in and I'm not sure how many people actually are we are of that history probably not a lot outside of people living there I bet well I said most people but was before it was Reen Barton as multiple other facilities was it in business up to 2015 when it closed down or yeah all right they were they were making the donuts there right up until 2015 it wasn't reading Barton then something else but no I thought that was a good capture because I'm not even sure people on Elm Street you we were the PE everybody knows this you alluded the fact they probably know the history I'm not do you think this elect would know the history I don't know maybe some you might you might want to say that this is the history of the side is I go through every one of those no no assuming assuming they actually know the history I'm not so sure they actually know the history okay I mean they may I have no idea I mean Steve knew it but yeah Jim and I I guess didn't know time I would I mean it's still in front of the they're still voting on things and making decisions about stuff out there so I think this the SEL board is is in tune with I think the property's been uh on the on the on the front of everybody's agenda and they've been talking about it for years now because of what it is I thought was very interesting yeah so I understand that in a previous project there was a problem with soil borings yes yep so that may be a con bone of contention about in this case we're going to be aggressive to I don't know what the issue was but I just heard that there was a problem so this is going to count of that is that correct okay it is yeah yeah I mean you're right if we I mean that question so we had soils soil borings before um so one of the issues out there was the predominance of the ledge and it was the nature of the ledge and the inability of the contractor to really deal with it we didn't have the right contractor necessarily to deal with it we worked through it with him um but yeah you know based on our borings in between every boring everywhere it could you know the ledge came up you know so happened to me so I understand being 20 ft deep didn't help either yeah we were a lot deeper out there yeah yeah yeah are you going to be that deep on this one as well no see so that's that's a there the grade of the road Works in our favor and that's why the site that we're so that we prefer is the low point in the area you know so everything flows on either side by gravity down to there so that make him up so it's a good answer that you have I'm all set the um thanks Steve more the discussion so I wanted to I do have more yeah other than other than so um so we think that's that's pretty good the way it is we'll just I'll run through that I I still feel like I stumble on the that that share the unallocated share I mean did it make sense the5 to you and then how to pay for it I mean it I mean the easiest thing is if we included Reen Barton in the assessment if we included that property and we now I forget that I had those numbers but it don't have with me so if we just looked at it based on the acreage the dry the buildable acreage out there I think we came up with like 16 units like a quarter of a million dollars at 16,000 a unit if we look at it in terms of what they want to build1 15 Apartments M it's like $2 million their assessment right so somewhere in that range is most if not all of the remaining money but again you already can't get somebody to buy this property yeah if you're just going to it's a again saying we all this then they'll want to buy it and we'll get that's why I think and then somebody smarter than me about how the taxes work and and how they can do this needs to acknowledge that the best thing for the town is to get this site cleaned up get something built on it you will get significant tax revenue for the community will be better for it you know you'll have a a much more aesthetically pleasing safer just better all around you will have tax revenues that you don't have right now right you're not collecting any money on that property and yeah maybe for the first X years that money will be earmarked to pay down the sewer debt and then once the sewer debt is paid down those go into the the general taxes of the town and help everybody you know help the tax base help you know control you know the tax rate I would mention all of that that's what I'm kind of trying to say you know you mentioned about the putting on the tax rules I would keep that I would stay away from that so I would suggest about all this other stuff I would I'm in a similar situation at Redmill about a different project Redmill village where the committee brought forth to the trustees which I'm also a trustee but I'm on the committee basically how to fund the project but that's just up to the trustees to figure that out wasn't up to the the committee to suggest to that you know I mean it's I mean that's what the selectman's job is so let them figure I mean just give them the numbers and just tell them that all the benefits and let them figure out how to pay for it the other piece of it is and I have to be careful when I say this because the way the cost went before um we're being conservative with our numbers so when I give you the 7.6 to 8.6 range 8.6 is you know worst case scenario running the Force main all the way to Cobb Street um everything potentially that could go and I guess you can't say not everything that go wrong but there's a lot of contingency in that number I don't anticipate we would ever see 8.6 million well at this moment in time it'sit the contingency has so I definitely want them to be prepared to vote for that amount if we finish the design and the value engineering and we get down to the what I think we're going to get down to is the force mangle the shorter distance that's like a half a million in itself MH um in savings um on the overall cost and I think that 7.6 is conservative for what we're actually doing out there at that point there there there's a good chance the 0.5 to 1.5 goes away alog together but I don't we it needs to be voted on assuming that it doesn't go away of course that's that's the message here and I'm not we're not here to make any guarantees other than that so I don't know how far into that we get I guess that's more in the Q&A when they start asking questions about the cost which they will um I don't know how much I should how far I should go with that I would just let them ask a qu follow-up question and then get into the details so just to let you know in contingency in this stage we use a very high number and as the design process proceeds that contingency number is refined and that's what he's hoping for because right now we don't know about soil boardings we don't know where the Force main is we don't know where the location of P station is a lot of variables soon yep but if you start low you still have those variables but well until until we know as the design progresses then that contingency number can be less y up until the bid date and even when you w the contract there's a contingency so you know you can't go into a job with no money in case you have change OES or when you have change OES not if based on the design for the water does that include Bypass or is that it it uh yeah temporary my cons would just be the timing of it if you're what's starting first if you're starting in right before winter bypass isn't an option right so looking at that time stamp that you had it might need to be modified slightly depending on goes in first right I know I know you had that it's definitely the best option for that location based on the age of the materials and the surface and the services that are feeding the houses yeah and then if you dig the sewer if you did the and Forest main so we I I do recommend maybe just allowing that up to the contractor depending on when it's awarded because you're going to also have potential supply chain delays it's not as bad as it was a couple years ago but just have it in there that they can't use bypass between December and Y April so yeah I mean leave a little flexibility for them to you're going to want the best price possible so this probably going to be a year plus job I I apologize I didn't y we did talk about bypass I think it's I think you want to go with that should say a year and a just say that that accounts I mean who that's not what's driving the decision here when it's going to be done no is but maybe we should say it might putting things in a bullet point people tend we can leave it the way it is and say that you know one of the things that could drive the construction schedule is you know when we're doing it so October isn't the ideal time to start but that's where we're at right now the other question we could delay the start until April and that come up is will the road be open for traffic uh what are we looking at for uh police detail costs M so the police DET going to be open for construction during construction no I mean is Jared going to let us dig in the road in November and December you know MH but when they're doing the construction yeah the intent is that we would get one lane okay um by there now there may be some some days where they have to shut it down but based on the depths we should be able to pass one lane of traffic alternating traffic it is a pretty it is a we've been having pretty good Winters to do this kind of work and the asphalt plants are St open yep so you can pave at the end of the week hopefully we won't have to do it every day yeah I mean it's not governed by the state that's up to the town yeah I think once a week is you know and it's back filled every day and compacted such that you can drive on it is just not paved are we expecting a lot of push back from the residents at all for this whole project I've heard it go both ways so far I've had some people very interested in it and other people I mean the improvements on the road I think that they would be happy about that I can't imagine them not wanting that depends smack 100 unit apartment building right there in that little area but the residents I haven't talked to too many residents but the time this came up maybe my first town meeting I went to about what are we doing about reading Bon and the and getting rid of that ugly eyes saw was seemed to be what the the voice was on Elm Street okay good I would think that I know that it's an you know the out of pocket expense to have to do something within seven years is that our r on M Street after the completion of the project I mean that's the price you pay mhm I mean there's no other option here I mean to me getting rid of that ice store is Paramount it's important especially if you live in Elm Street I would think yeah so I you know I don't know anything I don't know anybody Elm Street but I'm just saying that's what I remember people said in town meeting and there is a as part of the public Outreach we would definitely want to do a public meeting before town meeting M probably send specific invites to all the people on Elm Street anybody that's directly impacted going to get a betterment going to have the construction equipment right in front of their property and then have it be open to any anyone in town absolutely and do it at the library probably the library that's where we've done the public meetings and it's maybe a little more detail on what the construction is going to look like and stuff like that but basically you know similar to this so less about the dollars and more about how does this impact impact me so the drawing you have in there the plan you have in there is not that plan so do you have an updated plan that you're going to bring tomorrow night to the meeting so I think I'm going to bring that one yeah but that doesn't have the Force main on it right okay I just had point out the difference between the pl thought about that so the thing the one thing that this so I don't know how yeah so I don't know how much detail they need to know to tell you this yeah so I was thinking about that and I so the one that's on the slide I think is fine this one to have it with us you know when we talk about the pump station site Alternatives it shows you know kind of the four that we're looking at if anybody wants to get into you know I don't know how far they want to get into the Weeds on anything you know well I don't know how much time they have they got a big agenda so I keep it simple the way I set the PowerPoint up it's then it's just shouldn't take me long to get through that and then it's really how long they want to go on Q&A so I would just when you bring up the project in Elm streen I would just Orient people to actually where you are in the world where the library is maybe where we in colleges wherever else just so that people can actually pinpoint it on the map yep okay um so that does um actually lead into the peer reviews because I want to talk about zero Reservoir Street first um which we've been talking about these these two entities happening independently and potentially colliding so the the whole discussion about doing sewer on resir Street need to talk from this so Zero resir Street is this property up there yep when we submitted when it's all came up with Paul umg um about the grant he said what do you need to do out there I said well you know we would need you know we would obviously want to put sewers on Elm Street um ideally we would tie into the system this would be the nearest system to tie into this doesn't exist so we would extend the sewers on Reservoir Street at least up to Elm and it would make sense while we were there to extend the gravity sewer on Reservoir up to the high point so basically a solution for Elm Street most likely involves Reservoir so that's why it's all in the grant it's in the design at the same time we have the developer up here who has provided plans to extend the sewer up to their property and then we we're reviewing that um if our solution is what I think it's going to be that pump stations here everything on Elm is going to flow to it militarist comes down and we're going to pump this way Reservoir has nothing to do with the solution for Elm Street and Reen Barton at that point so this is another 800,000 that come off of the numbers that I quoted earlier if the town doesn't build the sewer in Reservoir Street and you leave it and zero Reservoir Street does and zero Reservoir Street does that's where it get you know at that price tag you know I don't know where they're going to go with it you know so they've been told basically if you want to tie in you got to you know create the infrastructure consistent with what the town would build in the future um I don't know how much we want to get into that tomorrow it's just another thing that will come off the cost if we don't build Reservoir as part of it but we got to take it out of the article you know we can't sell it as we're seing Reservoir Street so it so the betterments come down because we all the people on Reservoir that we were going to better don't get bettered and but um is definitely would be cheaper um in the long run to build it that way um if if we leave it to zero Reservoir Street then they don't even have to connect because it ends up being privately funded right that little stret but is correct do not have to connect unless they fail Title 5 or something like that correct yep um so in terms of zero Reservoir the biggest issue there was you know if they're going to extend a gravity sewer up here and just connect and their whole system in here is a proposed low pressure system to pump into the gravity sewer out here and then this would provide services for everyone along the way we've done our so we sent it today to Frank our peer review of it with our typical nitpicky you know this detail needs to be like this this sewer invert is wrong blah blah blah the real big picture of it was um Can this system handle it mhm um so both the the Rumford Road Pump Station which is one of the smaller pump smallest pump stations in town and then the infrastructure up here so based on the units because they're down to 14 Lots 11 single family homes and three duplexes so 17 17 edus so if we were to assess them a betterment at 17 * 16 is at 250,000 little more than that yeah a little more than that you know so if if we built it and assessed all the properties along the way there there assessment will be somewhere in that range um in terms of the capacity um everything is fine the the the pipes not an issue to be able to handle the 17 units from here plus the 18 homes along the way the 18 properties that are out there um the runford road station um we met out there we did some testing we met out there with with Bruno um and the numbers bear out that the station you know can support that I mean what really happens the station you know we like to design our stations to be able to handle a peak flow of like five and 1 half times what the average daily flow is when you add these properties I think our our Peak Factor was down to like 4.8 so it was a little below five but not not a major concern they can it can handle the flow I mean that's why you build them with so much Peak capacity early on is so that as you get spraw you can handle a little bit more you know what it did Bear out is that trying to pump trying to take the Elm Street flow over there we always knew it but now we have confirmed that with without replacing basically replacing the rumed road Pump Station we can't just discharge flow from Elm Street into this system here that's why we would even need to pump past that system all the way to Cobb Street which would be cheaper than the infrastructure improvements that would be required at Rumford Road it would be the station and the Force main um would need to be replaced basically in order to support those flows um so anyway that's in conjunction with with why we are looking to go the other way over here um so as far as zero Reservoir the piew is done they can tie in there is our recommendation and um so we're going to release that I guess the you know the the lingering question is going to be how are we each moving forward here right so we're scheduled to do borings next week we're going to do elm and and we were also because it's in our contract design contract it's part of the grant we were going to do borings on Reservoir I would offer that that's still useful information to have whoever builds the sewer whether it's the town or the developer um that I think we stay the course right now I'm open to discussion on it I guess but we're still we're not 100% there yet that we're not going to be coming to Reservoir and building infrastructure in Reservoir if that makes sense so that's why at this point we're going to collect the data so is the drawings for zero Reservoir include the gravity silver on res there's does yeah okay so that's a good indication though that's their intent that is that's what they would told they would have to do and that is their intent I would you know at some point there will be when they run the numbers there will be I assume discussions of cost if you know at what point you know that's really what it's going to cost to build this what is does that do to the value of what they're doing here how much is that well it's $5,000 a unit to build that $800,000 well probably they could build it for Less yeah they could build it for Less yeah they have a lot of better restrictions they don't have to go public bidding they use a private contractor so has to be cheaper so my intent is to stay the course for tomorrow night you only know you only know what you know I only know what I know I agree and then you know we could discuss I think it's worth doing the borings but you know we can talk more about it Frank if um because the other issue is and and you know this road was paved I think just over five years ago now so it's pretty new um we're going to pop some holes in it um and Patch them to get the information so I think we're good there but we can talk more I have no problem taking it out if we decide not to do those it's just it's happening we just need to make that decision I mean if it's part of the original design I think i' sent an email I might not even send but no you it's good information to have it is good information just at what cost mhm you know I mean they're already mobilized most of them are out here MH um like I said either way well there's no guarantee that zero Reservoir is moving forward right unless we had a what's the chances I mean it's the design is nowhere in reality right I mean they haven't G have they done permitting probably so we got to get them com so you know and they gone before planning board they have uh numerous times have changed designs multiple times but it's nothing firm yet right so who knows I would proceive with the way you your intent okay so the um that I sent you I didn't I don't have copies with me tonight somehow I left those at the office if I didn't mention that but um I think do we want to release it did um does the commission want to look at the at the peer review I I just went through it with you so that's what the peer review basically goes through um Frank I don't see why we don't release it okay yeah sure yeah keep them get them mov I know they we were delayed slightly on them so yep okay so I'll send that to them and that'll you know put you know put it back in their Court in terms of asking if they're going to ask questions about the the sewer and the cost of the sewer whatever so so our other friends zero Mansfield this figure is working great everything at home and somebody put a figure up here that just gives me everything I need so I'm just talking off a memory now all my notes but um so for zero Mansfield this here um they wanted to pump it this way or you know whatever and they were told you know we've got a gravity sewer down here we need you to extend that gravity sewer front the properties along the way if you're going to connect we want it built to the town standards we reviewed that uh and they're they're getting pretty handsy we are behind in in getting them the information but the their uh the last email was they're thinking uh the developer is going to move on if we don't give him an answer soon but I don't not wor I am about that but anyway the based on the manhole that was left out here they've run a gravity sewer up um all the way to the property in fronted it the issue that they really asked so we've reviewed it and we've made some comments on the sewer itself um it works it gets um shallow through the lowest point of the there's a a culvert somewhere in here I forget exactly where but um it gets to be like 4 ft of cover um on the gravity um which is very doable um just make sure we do the right construction measures for any loading on the pipe or Frost Hees if those are a concern so their concern so they've already expressed that their concern is the cost like I started T over here so they've already looked at it um and what they really asked in the peer review is to do some for us to do some value engineering they're like is that can you help us um make this affordable so that it's worth us doing this you know Worth US building all this infrastructure and our property and we still fit in the margins right it's still worth us doing um they asked about being off the road and in the shoulder with the sewer I don't think that's going to work gas M the gas man's right there High Press gas um and then just a disruption to all the private properties along the way and then you still got to run all the services across they're trying to save Paving money right so they're in a state highway a big part of their cost is the paving um they ask why you know can we consider again just pumping all the way which we've already told them no on that they asked about what if we just bring it to this subdivision and then pump to it and then they also ask so right now the one thing that we might be able to work with them on is they went minimum slope all the way so as they get to here it starts getting deep um and it doesn't necessarily need I think we could make it a little shallower through here um which would save them might save them the money they're looking for I don't know I think the basic point where were at is they'd like to meet and talk about the costs I mean I'd be curious they've floated some numbers I'd like to see how they're coming up with what they think it's going to cost we've run a cost estimate ourselves based on the same numbers we're using for this other stuff and our numbers are a little bit off there's are higher so I think the next step what they're really asking for is to talk about costs and I don't know if that's something Frank that we would off to do outside of a commission meeting meet with them in here let them tell us what their concerns are you know have some back and forth with them see if they're still even interested in building this and then come back to the commission with with what they're asking for and and what what we would be amenable to and recommend they also reduce their amount of units that they're putting in there yeah so Ian I didn't understand that but you're they're losing like half a building is worth of units I think that's what they're do kind of that's not an ins significant price tag to have to run gravity all the way up here in Li of you know just having to tie into a sewer that's already there I me if they had to tie into a SE that's already there then they pay the you know I assume we I it really comes down to what what is your latitude in dealing with them you know you can wave their their fees you know if it's agreed that yeah your costs are far more significant than what your connection fee would be if we had this infrastructure in place um and I don't know if that would you know I'd like to see the numbers that's what we need to see is I want to know what how they're coming up with their numbers I mean we we we can look at um uh waving fees and all that and but without any kind of hard numbers to look at it's really hard to yep I meany I personally would love to have them do this so I would love to work with them that's yeah what is our latitud exactly I mean that's what this is all about and then theend great for there's it's that balance between just saying either you you build this or you're out of luck or trying to find a way to you know if the numbers absolutely don't work for them and they're going to walk away from it is there a way to make it work right and there is or there isn't you know yep yeah but even if they did eventually someone's going to come back in and want to do it yeah that land's going to get developed one way or another eventually and it's unfortun no we're not yeah we're not going to bend over backwards and or anything but there are ways to you know I I think like my first thought is if if you guys get a gravity sewer in this road all the way up to their property even if it's only 4 ft deep when we get here and there's some areas where it's shallow through here you would have the infrastructure that you want you might not be able to get every property by gravity there might be a couple of homes that are that are too low to get in because the sewer is a little shallower that might be some of the tradeoffs if that if they think that saves them if they think so they they're petrified the developer has dug out here before and he's petrified in the ledge and we know we hit it down here so he's he's convinced and they didn't uh it's a state road they didn't do any they didn't get a permit to do any testing so nobody's done actual Bing boring so nobody knows what's under there so nobody knows for sure but they've dug out there people do know you know the people that have dug this area no um so by staying so right now they just stay at minimum slope all the way to just keep it as deep as they can here there's only a few homes on the other side and we were never going to get all of them by gravity it falls off at some point here so there was going to be this is the um the causeway where the reservoir the road crosses the reservoir so we the the um comprehensive plan showed some low pressure sewer for a little ways up to the top of the hill and then into a gravity sewer that flows down to here so we might you know potentially we might lose what we thought you know four or five homes that we thought were going to be on gravity in the future would have to pump because the sewer is too shallow up here you know little things like that are the concessions that that's makes it work for them to get this infrastructure in place so do we have we have any meetings set up with these people at all the near future or out to them so we need to reach out okay we make that happen soon yep yeah I'll talk to prank tomorrow and I'll see if we can put something on the calendar next week if they want to come in and talk about you know what they're seeing for costs and and what we see as options okay good okay a lot of homework Steve yeah job good thing I bring my notes that would quick question on the Elm Street sewer the the purple line is all gravity right yes where is this the um what would be flowing North to Rumford versus what's flowing South to militarist trying to just figure out where that split is like is everything on Reservoir Street would go north everything on Reservoir would Flo and entire Elm Street would go south yeah okay so before we really get into the design we didn't know if if it would make sense for a piece of Elm Street to tie in so there is a hump there but this does not connect this gos this way down to a low Point here so we come through the hump um so I think we have some I think we have some sewers that are like 13 feet deep at the deepest point we don't just get through the we have some 15 but just for a short stretch to get through that hump and then uh and that's probably that's probably we'll find the ledge right that's why it's you know yeah but um anyway yeah so right now everything's flowing down and down and that's the pump station proposed Pump Station site there and that's another process that you know we need to advance everything's been positive we didn't get any Heisman or someone come out and say you know this is land um preservation Society they were very reasonable easy to work with and if you look at the you know I think if we work with them you know we can make the the design of this the station to be pleasing to them it can almost you can almost improve the site you know give them but there's not a lot they can do out there there's not a lot of it's all you know the river is back here um and then the town property is back here you know initially we were thinking the pump station would be at the end of Miller Terrace back when we were talking about including it with the uh Municipal complex project and when we really you know got the survey down and really looked at the profiles you know militarist comes down about four or five F feet coming this way y so trying to run the sewers that way we were like 20t deep just going into the wet and the same thing down here so this is the same parcel this is the library over here right so I don't know if this is Library park or what they call that in the corner here I mean these are viable sites they're just deeper and that's cost you know there is money um the stream comes through here so these are the low points this is Wheaten property mhm and this is the the uh the town property that's the preservation anyway that's uh so those are the sites we I think we should very helpful by the way yeah to be talking off the board yeah I think I think I agree so I'll bring this so we'll print this out again and have it with us so I'll go through the presentation we'll have this with us if people want to drill in well take that one if you want okay good do we want to change anything I think it's good the way it is right yeah it just doesn't show the show Force the bottom you can point it out I think for right now think C Street off this map right the C Street pump station is still further up this yeah it's further down we have a version that has cop Street on it yeah yeah maybe necessary though what I I take that one the same for them going to have something to look at with streets and you can point to stuff yeah I mean so and I think I'll just I'll only go to it for Q&A if they you know I'll get through the presentation with everything that's on the screen and then this visual a will be there they have specific questions cuz you said their time they only have limited time also where did I forget the big work Steve Bishop can you go tomorrow tomorrow night I have date night tomorrow night I got to I got to negotiate that what is a date my girlfriend take it with you bring her along she's not going to ask tough questions she I'm not sure if that's going to work but I I we'll we'll talk about that okay um the only other thing I had on here Frank and I sent you so the um the Norton Housing Authority the flows out there and we can talk more about that but I don't yeah there's still more work to be done there it's just just doesn't make any sense okay so we'll discuss that in house no sense to okay waste time just okay no that's fine so I sent you some some stuff if you're interested in pursuing it to try and do more research out there all right I think I'm done great job thank you very comprehensive thank you it's good good job I don't know you probably did all the work so very good job is the one that spent all the meetings with the preservation Society conservation she's been talking to Board of Health um so yeah lot of leg work has there been any indication of a land swap or land purchase for that LPS property they sounded interested in that when we up with them okay that's why we just got to get to move we just got to find out so one thing we told them we would get the wetlands flag so we're trying to get that done next week so that we can then position the infrastructure where it needs to go in relation to not just the property lines but the wetlands and uh and start the concom process but also I think they said they would like us to come to one of their meetings right so was was it all is it a three member board and they were all three of them were at the S sidewalk there are more um so three of the members were on the S sidewalk two of them were there and one former member was there who lives at two Miller Terrace who was just interested in the project ah I is that that's the house right behind the house yeah right in front of the proposed Pump Station oh yeah so she's in the loop yes she knows what's going onop anyway so so yes Hanna's been doing all the light work and she's going to figure out if that Force Main's going to work or not yeah that's the next uh step all right very good excellent do we have any any uh anything for next meeting or anything that anyone want before we go what's up pick a date our next meeting according to me is April 9th is that right April 9th oh that's what I have my calendar I don't know if that's true or not that's Tuesday a Tuesday right that's your bedtime well the beauty about April 9th is if um oh can't miss that if um the the second one you talked about zero whatever it needs to meet with us it was sooner than later we may have both of them they both might want to come in at that point Reservoir so I think I can make it tomorrow night to the select I can definit you can't go okay I'd probably uh well if you're on date night we don't want to interfere with that now you don't even know I'm sure they could always reach out if there's questions that they had for the board yeah no I'll try to be done thanks Steve uh April 9th works yeah that works for me [Applause] okay better be a short meeting it's a big Celtics game that night and I don't want to miss right we got we can scream it can we F I'll have my ear uh real quick FYI I will be away for the first 3 weeks of May okay so I will miss our meeting and town meeting okay you did that on purpose didn't you no just 100% coincidence but um we had a guy go down with a skiing in injury knees out for like three months oh jeez and I'm the only other person in the company that can do the wet chemistry stuff so sounds like a raise to me Jim I'm on the road um anyway that's all good okay y we'll keep you da all right um I would like to make a motion to adour on this evening's meeting I second all in favor I right thank you very much everybody good