##VIDEO ID:BpUZRRRNrhg## out of Norton zoning board of appeals meeting October 16 uh we're starting a little late this evening apologies 7:09 p.m. for start time uh Tom Noel chair along with Brian Spangler Jim Tori who's that oh Lucas wak um Building Commissioner Mr ARA Fred and Mr carmichel our fearless staff person responsible for these new surroundings um we're in the new town hall for the first time we've got um three items on the agenda three hearing items the first is continued application of for zero Burke Street uh applicant is Dan Rich is Mr Rich present tonight he said he wasn't going to be attending he was going to give you the uh continuous letter which I sent out this afternoon and then he wasn't going to attend I didn't see that did you send it to us by email by email okay I didn't check that I checked it around noon time or 1:00 so I didn't uh check it after I was tied up I didn't know sorry thank you fine um so continue to the next Hearing in November he has to continue to November 20th okay is that our hearing date November 20ths l okay so is there a motion to accept that he's going to get us a letter uh so on attorney Rich's word he sent us oh he did he did send us a letter I didn't see it is there a motion to continue the uh hearing Zer Burke to November 20 which creates issues because Mr Sandler is not going to be part of our board yeah right um but I think we have toh continue it at his request I would say we should continue it till then and we will ask Mr wasak to view the prior hearings segments and sign that um sign that form we'll have to U we'll have to get in the dates that we've talked about it it was two or three meetings right oh W wasn't it wasn't very long either time maybe 5 minutes 10 minutes each time but going to have to point you in that direction and ask that uh there's a motion to continue to November 20 is there a second second any discussion further discussion all those in favor Mr Tori yes Mr spandler Mr Noel votes yes as well so that is continued and I didn't see that I have to check the town email later than um 12 or 1:00 I guess next is a continued public hearing for zero East Main Street Island Brook LLC I see Mr itani is here and Council and you sent us a letter on October 4 correct yes I did see that requesting continuance or are you going to present something this evening um so I recognize recognize uh Council to discuss where we are thank you Mr chairman chrisopher agino Council for Island Brook LLC um on October 4th I sent a letter to the board indicating that the peer review of the final plan set would not be complete in time time for this evening's hearing to have a robust discussion about some of those final details we were discussing however since we were on the agenda um and as this year has flown by uh as we've tried to troubleshoot some of these issues regarding phasing of the project and approval of final plans um we looked ahead and the permit is set to expire now in January of 2025 uh before which time we would have to commence Construction in order to ensure that the permit doesn't last so I figured we could use this evening's hearing uh to apply for per my letter of October 4th um a three-year extension of the permit term uh so that we can have that discussion tonight confirm an extension and then save all of our time for the next hearing uh at which point we should have the peerreview from graves engineering back uh with plenty of time for the board and any other uh Town officials or other boards that might be interested in in reviewing providing comment uh so that the board can hopefully be in a position uh to discuss and review the plans uh at that hearing and hopefully uh endorse final plans them so the question for the board for this evening uh is the requested uh three-year extension to the permit uh termination date was that in the letter yes yeah letter of October 4th okay apparent I read it but apparently I didn't read it closely enough I didn't see that part of the u letter as a request um but that's fine um can I ask where do we know where Graves is on the review and their their recommendations we don't know precisely where they are but we do know that our uh plan set has been submitted to them we had hoped that their peerreview would be ready this evening uh but their graves is funded with peer review fees yes they're engaged they're working on it they understand okay uh the evolution of the plan set and the issues that the board uh was looking to vet um as far as the phase one and phase two of the project um and by all accounts they will have a a full peer review well in advance of November 20th hopefully at least 10 days in advance so that we can get that uh to the board and discuss we can have a robust discussion at that hearing okay thank you so there's a request from the applicant to continue the deadline which has been continued a couple times anyway through no fault of the applicant um I think um period of 3 years which is um can you speak as to why you would want three years as opposed to one or my question going to be one of my question yeah um you know I think the board's experience this year actually demonstrates how these things can uh take longer than anticipated uh we had actually submitted what we believed was a final plan set in November of last year and where the board meets once a month and it's a volunteer board you always have busy schedules um it it just as a matter of course takes time to look at these things so our thought in requesting a oneyear or sorry a three-year extension was to ensure number one plenty of time to complete an endorsement of the final plan set um and then number two once that's completed we actually then have to go to Mass Housing and get Mass housing's final approval uh before or we can actually put a shovel in the ground so that process right now is is running 6 to 8 months so it could be well into 2025 before we hear back from them and it might be fall it might not be the right time to put a shovel on the ground at that point so rather than you know uh take up the board's time in a repetitive extension requests where you know this project is is is right to begin as soon as we're able to get all our ducks on a row uh we figured just a three-year extension would be sufficient so that we wouldn't have to revisit that issue so it's it would be 3 years from January whatever the date is the decision usually resets that but we could always make a decision assuming the grant of the the new plans uh we could keep that January 2028 date I'm a little confused I I I I don't believe I believe the permit lap state is in dependent of a new submission of revised or modified plans it it it runs off the right original Grant so I don't right now it's January 21st 2025 understood okay we're saying I'm saying it maybe a little bit differently the decision normally would say uh applicant from the date of this signing of the decision has three years oh if that doesn't come till after January and you know we don't know um we don't have to reset that date we can with a three-year date we can set that as January 2028 it's hard even to think what year that's going to be that's three years from this January and we don't have to extend it further necessarily when we do a decision gotcha that's all I'm that's all I'm getting at understood um with that in mind I don't see any downside to saying no to the extension this is on the original permit that was issued and extended already to this coming January and part of the reason why it being ended was me anyways not being able to come a up once or twice I think but that I'm not sure that delayed anything but yeah yeah I understood that delays happen on you both sides and now we're waiting for the engineer so um with that in mind I think the first vote is whether this is a substantial or insubstantial change request or is that assumed not to be substantial because it's just a Time request it's presumed uh to be insubstantial if the board wants to make that finding they can let me ask let me ask for that vote just that's the way I'm remembering the statute the uh regs um I'd suggest a motion to find the applicants time extension request to run from this January of 2025 to the appropriate date I'm going to leave the date blank cuz I don't have it in front of me um in January 2028 that that is an non-substantial or an insubstantial request under the meaning of the bylaw which only means that we're granting it is that is there such a motion I'll make that motion is there a second second second by Mr Spangler any further discussion I already n have my say about the further extension at the point of a decision we can decide at that point if it's warranted or not um so all all those in favor this is a non-substantial request change request Mr Tori yes Mr Spangler yes and Mr Noel votes yes I think that actually then says you get the request is not substantial but why don't we do another motion to Grant the request as as um as announced by council tonight for that three-year extension to run to the again same date in January 2028 Mr Tori do you make 21st Mr chairman the 21st January 21st 2028 would be the request thank you is there such a motion I'll make that motion second okay any further discussion no uh Mr Tor how do you vote Yes Mr Spangler yes and Mr no I votes yes so it's done either way I think all we needed was the insubstantial vote because then I think it's automatic but we covered the bases Amy won't Amy won't yell at us for messing up no very much thorough Mr chairman thank okay and keep us surprised again before the next meeting if you and if you get something or there's communication to be had don't hesitate to communicate with us through Mr carmichel is there anything else this evening then no not this evening Mr chairman and you know as to Graves progress especially I mean let us know ahead of time where we have yeah we'll send an email tomorrow to request an update just to make sure we're still on schedule but last report was okay we were actually again hoping for this evening I understand and Grace is going to alert us anyway so they'll come to us so thank you very much thanks thank you appreciate good night good night have a good night okay um so next is the application uh for a variance 79 West Main Street Mark esperti that's me you are can you you can speak from there that's fine orless the camera would you prefer okay um I I need this uh do you have anyone have printed papers no but you want this I I'm somewhere email it to me or just go ahead take a look myter it's a touch screen if you want move so this is for a variance my apologies I had not seen on the agenda that this was up um is this something we can look at in the moment and so Mr applicant Mr eser yep why don't you just tell us um simply what it is you're looking to do and the variance request that you think is needed so uh I was in front of the planning board last night to get a special permit approved to convert 79 West Main Street from a single family to a duplex um I need relief from a couple dimensional regulations because the uh Village commercial zoning has a duplex needing um I believe 26,000 feet total lot uh 120 feet Frontage and the 10 feet yeah 10 ft for a side setback those are the three dimensions that uh the existing structure is not existing structure and existing land are not in conformance with uh so that is my reasoning for the request tonight and uh last night's decision was also contingent on tonight approval okay understood um Can is there a way you can show us what we're looking at for the plan or I do have some Mr IA do you have knowledge of what's here yep to walk us through that maybe excuse me I'm sorry Mr let me ask do you have the Buton you I I do and unfortunately we can't project it tonight that's what not a good night for me not to have the papers I could do the zoom but I can't give it to you guys on a big monitor why don't you do it to zoom uh the plan sheet um so at least people anybody following see it this building is not um so so basically Mr chairman this is a this is a pre-existing structure um as I'm sure some of us are aware the Shaded the diagonal the diagonal shaded area is the structure itself got it um So currently the occupancy permit is for a single family residents that's a different lot that's a different lot um and what this plan shows um is the back yeah corner of the of the building than is 2 2 in from that property line but it's already there it's already existing yeah they actually the quick history of this not that it's applicable here but it may be to you guys is the quick history is this this structure at one point was over the property line this structure sat on three different properties at one point in time and the previous owner went through landc Court I believe um to move some property lines and make this create this structure so that it's on this one property one parcel and this is what they essentially came up with um so therefore the reason Mark is in front of us today is because of the change in use from a single family to a duplex that's the that's the VAR that's what triggered the need for the variant request is it because this is a previous non-conforming use pres or just a straight variance it's just a straight variance it was a the structure itself was was was already there yeah pre we can call it preexisted non-conforming single family home there's no change to the footprint no change to the footprint ofal y so it's just the use inside the building so the structure is not expanding yeah um was this before us a year or two ago by were going to do it down the line correct believe the previous owner um was looking for some type of relief um with the the previous situation when the property line yeah with the pool house with the pool it went through the back of the corner of the pool proper it is the it is the pool house property I just now recognized it it's a butri propert yeah this was in front of us this is the old Rich property I didn't know this was the same why does it look it looked different yeah we were looking at the other side the other over we were looking at the rich property not this this was one right was one of them I was actually thinking of a different app but I I get you I didn't so through so through L Court ultimately um I don't know if it was Dan or or attorney rich or who were in that that family that was just a year ago they yeah they moved the property line and then um and then now because of the change in use Mar's before us just for relief from what the bylaw requires for um a duplex in a village commercial owning District so Mr spury are you the uh contractor or the owner both yeah both okay I didn't didn't realize that so so for what it's worth so is the pool still in there that's what I need to know it is I'm swim in that pool yeah there's still I swim in that pool I used to swim in that pool so Mark Mark hasn't created any of these hardships um yeah they they they kind of he inherited them right but it's a special case I get it it's interesting but due to the circumstances and the change in use that's why do we do we have the land Court decision sorry Jim do we have that in the file I don't know I've never seen it because it it really didn't need to come I I never got it well do you say yeah this is the right plot plan I mean how do you match up the current plot plan to St certified go by that you go by that yeah so by the register design professional that that Mark hired to do this would have searched this in the registry and and calculated one way or another based off a w is recorded with this property so Mr spery I'm sorry um is that the case that this went through land court and your understanding is that this is the legal lot line now that's shown here yeah correct when we when I bought it it was heavily scrutinized because of the yeah a little bit of a walk so title insurance so yeah there's a lot of eyeball on this before it gets transferred I would think yeah that was the okay they withdrew without prejudice because of that L line I thought that was only a year ago but whatever I actually believe it was the neighbor looking for a sidey setback variant on the shed because it's a shed that's only yeah I'm I'm not sure the dimensions aren in this plan but it's it's very close to the property do we care about driveways and parking when it goes to a duplex we it's in the bylaw it's in the bylaw I don't know if a if a variance is needed for that I'm just asking we can ask Nick or we can ask the applicant I mean he's asking only for that one variance relief at this point so the driveway that's going to be used though is that the front driveway off the main street or any of the you show no I don't own any access to that rear driveway yeah so it's only in front so it's a front yeah it's expanding the front driveway so the gray hashed out and the and the five parking spots are shown but I'm not sure if have to approve any on that if he if he can meet the requirements of the B there's nothing for you to approve right okay and that's up to Nick to look at I guess if he if he couldn't meet the requirements of the of the parking bot then he would for relief from from the board so as far as we know we' had these top we've had these conversations on multi-unit type structures before but this won't be a broad St of approval off bedroom count and stuff like that thison be just an all-encompassing stamp of approval it's just granting a variance to convert and then is that a variance issue no so you have in front of you Mr chairman you have the request for go back to the application um you have requests for um variance on lot size how on the minimum Frontage requirement okay well that's what I thank you and then the side yard setback lot size so lot size Frontage and side yard setback relief okay that's pre-existing though it's pre-existing the hardship is is that it's pre-existing he didn't create it and it was created by the court I mean right to conform to reality correct um that's what I was asking because I mean I didn't think of variance for converting the use right so that's up to the planning board it's a funny one because he's changing the use it requires some of this stuff as as a onea bullet point we'll call it on his road map to success I guess is a way thank you and the there you go that's it so relief for minimum lot size for duplex from 26,000 to 14482 square ft I assume that is MHM relief for minimum continuous Frontage from 120 to 100.5 and relief for minimum sidey yeah to 2.2 which was is the obvious one so those three elements of varies uh questions from the board Brian no no seem straightforward to me thank you for pointing that out though that's that's what I was looking for you know something we could put into a a vote um I don't put public on there we have a mic P but I don't know let me ask thank you uh is there anybody um attending remotely virtually who wants to speak in favor of or in opposition to this application oh it's Peter no no it's mik p okay I don't hear any I can hear something but I don't hear he's eating no okay um that's fine and seeing nobody else in attendance in the room uh is there a motion to close the uh public hearing for this matter I'll make that motion sorry uh Mr Tor how you vote to close the public hearing yes Mr stainer yes Mr Noel votes yes as well now uh for discussion um I don't see any problem with this glad that it was cleared up in a way that it can be used to the maximum efficiency um we had sent them away and that's always frustrating because we said there's nothing we can do back then whether it was a year or two ago so glad to see it it worked out I mean that minimum Frontage is not such a big change the sidey setback is significant but the hard yeah at least at least it's in the same yard right at least it's in the same yard so I don't see a I don't see a problem to Grant right agree yeah is there a motion to approve a variance relief for this parcel as stated on the application a relief for minimum lot size for duplex from 26,000 to 14482 Ft from minimum Frontage from 120 to 100.5 and relief from the minimum side yard setback 10 ft to 2.2 ft in the what corner is that do you see it there West you can say the rear left corner I can say the rear left corner left corner on the plan of record sure is there a motion I'll make that motion second sure you don't want to make the motion you're last I can't screw up the youed okay second second on the motion uh any further discussion no I think the hardship was shown uh it's obvious and it conforms to reality Mr how do you vote Yes Mr Spangler yes Mr Noel votes yes as well so I guess you have to report that back to the planning board actually no because the planning board approved it last night okay all conent on us so you've got it already then um thank you for coming before us to present this um and uh sorry for the confusion but oh thank you good luck to you we'll we'll drop a decision U as soon as we can then of course there's an appeal period you know how that works good luck with the building thank you appre thank you jimk thanks I these two and you gave it to me I just didn't look it up who knows I just moved my office last month so yeah yeah thank you yeah good luck good luck uh Brian Spangler this item is I don't know if it's on the I don't think it is doesn't need to be doesn't need to be Mr Spangler is leaving us after what was it 10 15 years yeah I think it was closer than 20 or so okay well after how many I how's your Pion get a gold pen yeah gold pen here I got a big pen big pen pick a gift from a magazine or something um under $25 we have for a careful consideration we don't want to give these out willy-nilly but a certificate of appreciation for Brian Spangler thank you for wait I we have to vote on it oh you do it's certificate presented to Brian Spangler for his commitment and service to the town of Norton zoning board since 2022 does anybody have a problem with this certificate it's not signed is it no but I'm going to all right then I have no problem with we have a unanimous consent great I mean you couldn't have put in I know exactly date 16 what it's actually a photocopy of I don't know the out days yeah what's this hey thank you Brian silly am thank you yeah appreciate it man so this is what you get for your dedicated service for more than I expected all right right yeah the P has I said I said something similar last time but thank you all you know it's been a blast I bummed Bittersweet you know I'm bummed show I'm at home with four kids I'm back to work really appreciate it's been been fun and uh your your participation has been right on Queue I mean right on point on all these matters you're always asking good questions and pointing out things that aren't apparent so thank you yeah appreciate it I know where I live if you never need anything yeah knock on the door I might not be there but my wife will help you out if you don't move you're not off the board we're going to make your contingent on the actual move so you moving to you never knowville yeah not too far good luck get involved there I hope you I'll try yeah yeah I'll try I hope you do that they have fiveyear terms there on their zoning board so I got to wait a little while we had 10 atts but you know I made an exception for you oh yeah just for me yeah but good luck we're not thanks for you're welcome putting that together that's great yeah all right well good luck thanks man you're not off yet um are there any items to come before us well actually I took a look at the minutes and I am comfortable with what I remember and they are accurate okay so it's up to you if you want to yeah is there a mo I'll make a motion to approve do we have a vot to approve the minutes hold I'll tell you what minutes I don't think any of them are when I was even here no they work back when you first started basically I started December 22 right so we have some stuff from 23 oh we do I'm not that far back have to do you know which ones so we got two first January 11th of 2023 we got February 8th of 2023 and March 8th of 2023 those three those three I thought they were was it really I only saw oh you know what a good spot well we can vote the top three three no I and I looked at them the only one I didn't look at was December 14th I have theh so um so you got March 8th of 2023 and July 23rd of 2024 I've seen all those I did not see December so I'll do that next time but those four are good is that four or five it's four I didn't do the F okay do you want me to take a quick look we can do it all no we can do it next time I guess yeah hold on I don't think I need all assume it's just been the three of us we wouldn't have had meeting if some of us weren't here yeah right but he seems he's I'm not sure it's a formality dropped there that doesn't belong you can change it to anything now that I'm gone didn't say I said anything yeah but I'm sure um everyone's going to be looking and saying Brian wouldn't say that yeah I think I'll go with that one too so let's we'll approve all five okay so we'll do January 11th 2023 February 8 2023 March 8 2023 July 23rd 2024 and December 14th 2024 not the last one is we haven't got to De uh 23 myad 23 right yep okay pre-approving I I'm pre is there a motion I'll make a motion second and no further discussion favor I I okay um okay and is there nothing else before us tonight Fabulous New Town Hall congratulations Mr carmichel built it himself funded it himself I I know Nick somehow right crazy right Nick waved all the regulations all I did and uh no it's nice we'll get used to this and uh it'll be cozy warm in the winter we can build a fire no we can't build a fire all right U Thank you very motion to adjourn at U 7:42 not bad record I make that motion second all favor I I I