so this being 7 p.m. Thursday January the 4th we'll start by taking a roll call of the sh commission Colton is here that's me member Gordon uh sent an email saying he would not be in attendance remember good that here Cur remember cronheim she said she was coming she said she'll be here but she's not here yet not here not yes he is right here oh I'm sorry you're right matter of fact it's six of them right there it's been cloned oh wow again okay so that being stated we be I'll State the usual the notice requirements of the open public meeting off of this meeting have been satisfied copy of the annual notice was sent to the expt par press and the coasta posted in town hall and fil in the office of the township on June 30th 2023 this meeting will be recorded and available on Ocean Township's YouTube channel I think I read that is it being recorded yes sir I just can't get it over there i' have it here okay so we have minutes uh now we're missing minutes from two meetings uh so we we could have done but we're we're short one probably due to all the dog licenses you know happening as we speak anyway not just dog licenses there is so bottom line is that we have the minutes for November the 2 anyone had a chance to review them I I one thing I noted in the paragraph number one of the dis you not at thee so I have SE says tond Colton blah blah no the stward should say stated that the stewardship Grant has been awarded sorry yeah no problem and I believe that we're getting have get an actually extra three years so the two becomes three one right I I believe that's true talking with them because one of the things wasn't clear in the beginning and I spoke with Kelly Fox who's there in charge of this project and I think it's going to turn out to be three addition question so let's see what this for a total of four years I think was but that that's what I'm thinking so Rec confirm the details on the way that okay confirm it tomorrow with me so so I'm going right so I'm going to figure out what's going on make sure goes other than that um I don't have any correction but under number two mhm the second two paragraphs I think is worth a discussion under budget you mean today yeah right okay to this maybe um there's a couple of comments worth making on some of these things we knock that off rather quickly so basically uh one of the things I noticed when I did get a copy of our budget this year was that the Tre tags uh Town contractors they're supposed to get these tags for their vehicles and so on and so forth okay um I don't know how well they've been distributed or not but I did notice that that was an item taken out of our came out of our hug budget to Grand whatever it is 1500 1500 so it's actually 1500 so uh anyway I'll move that the minut be accepted as Amendment as am all right okay all in favor who was there just the two of us I was there okay yeah you're accepting minutes yes yes all right so minutes are approved a few questions okay those so so it turns out that those came out of our budget which I was kind of surprised because in reality you know in Bill talks about this also we have the shade tree commission and we're responsible for trees on Town property etc etc etc right correct and then we have this ordinance that we're prating which is coming sold up out of the environmental Commission because it relates the trees that are not not necessarily not ont you know so it gets confusing in a way because there's still kind of sha trees and soone and so forth okay so um so and of course the tree services you know work on both kinds of trees okay now I was talking to uh Jean Armstrong and I talking you know and he said that um he the he got tag the first year okay but um since then it's not there I don't know if there's a real process for these tags anymore I think you said the tag actually had the year on it okay should okay which I think one thing if we're going to buy get more tags it's possible that we should keep the tags in our possession but maybe write the year run and then bu the stock of tags instead of buying a whole bunch of tags that not giving out or Buy stickers or or something something like that to do something can I indulge you for about 90 seconds let scoot to my office show you what we got okay all right we pass that one for the moment then okay so then of course the shet Tre fund you know which was created was mly created to plant trees because commercial sites were cutting down trees you know and they weren't replanting them for any number of reasons sometimes they were too they couldn't other times it turns out on that particular ordinance it was cheap not to right so that we got that but we have been using that trade treade fund for more than that okay and especially since the Sha commission is responsible for uh talents on the that the town is responsible for um on Town property and so on and so forth um I think that there should be some kind of a budget in public works separate budget for tree maintenance and so on and so forth unrelated to the shade tree fund itself and that's something I'm hoping to discuss with Council and Township manager at some point you notice no here and the previous years I believe were either blue or green so we're going to do this for a while that's good there's room for a sticker well for the we right the want say and I certainly have enough I would think for the contractors that we have registered with the town give them half a dozen without having a problem okay should have one in originally they were talking about only giving out two well was just say but they should have one in every vieh they should but some guys like Stevie Becker's got God that's have many trucks but if he knows he's got to have stickers on the trucks that are coming to Ocean the you know phone call can probably accomplish that in my opinion if it doesn't work well then we'll find something that works better than but I think if we start with a half a dozen well if he comes with three say five trucks and three of them have stickers I mean you know they're all the same guy well yeah I understand that but I mean I don't I know Steve probably has at least 25 trucks well I don't want to start peing 25 out of here for for everybody I think four to six is probably a reasonable number because most of the time figure a crew is going to be a chip truck a bucket truck something to handle logs maybe a crane a pickup truck with a stump grinder well there's right in M Elric all right so that being said Donna ma let me ask this these guys they're supposed to come back and and re-register every year y they are required to update their license with with the Town Township of ocean and I if I see a new uh tree company on a permit I immediately go to the board of Tree Experts site and I make sure they're registered with and licensed with the state as either ltco or an ltce and they're not on the bad boy list either suspended uh not registered uh uh there's another under review and if those are the cases that say they're suspended then they can't work in a town okay so I'm going to interject there also what they have to be registered with the town every year for a new business license in order to conduct business in town whether it be a landscaping business or a tree service any kind of business that does even temporary business in town is required to um apply and receive a business license as well to work in town so is that one January renewal yes how long do they have to get that done the end of the month January 31st I believe okay and if it's a new business coming in town saying see now one of the things that we haven't been doing and uh and our tree ordinance we have the tree ordinance that says what they're allowed to do and not do okay and they should be on for the people who are getting a license as a tree service operator there should be a place for them to sign saying that they have read the ordinance you when they're coming to get the thing that we wherever they can get the application it should have the link to the or whatever the existing ordinance at least right and they want we wanted to say that they have the ordinance and that they agree to abide by the ordinance because then when they get caught doing something their ignorance will not be placed or shouldn't be placed I can tell you that other municipalities I have worked for have done exactly that sounds like a good idea it was the same thing when I worked for the steel mill one of my jobs every contractor that walked in had a film that had to be they had to watch they have sign off on the fact they saw ity and everybody got a different or new sticker to put on your hard yeah so that's something that's something we you know we need to we need to keep going on and of course then the township manager um he'll you know we Patty's come up with a form or something you know we want to plant something we identify what it is where it is etc etc we send it to Dave and then Dave will then go through public works or whoever depending on what's going on if we're going out for bids maybe you know Ricky GS or whatever you know and so on and so forth go but the ordinance says quote at the time of registration applicants shall certify that they have received the copy of and will comply with the Townes but I'm not sure I've seen any I'm not pretty sure that that has not been happening it's up to the procedures established by the department right just saying okay so that's what it covers very Qui so let's go I think you're emphasizing it the upgrade I think that's worth doing okay so one of the things um that we right now we're short we don't have an alternative okay um if I I've been approached by someone in Dave Brown about it and he told me that he thought there were some other people who were potential candidate have been brought up was a possible thing and uh and he was hoping to have it done by this meeting so I'm hoping to get that over with before our next Mee I thought there were some people who were on our at our last meeting or the meeting before who seemed interested right Desiree hater I believe who may be watching right now before I know she uh was interested and that was who I approached Dave about and he said what there some other people okay you know so can we set a date on when it has to be done of I don't know if we can but of course Dave has to do it and Dave told but I did remind him recently and so I suspect that it'll be done relatively without a date it's endless well I already told them the last meeting not this meeting was when I was trying to get it done so behind but you should be able to you know he's he's been out a couple of days and I'm hoping to have that that by that okay so then we have um let's talk about true applications be contacted about that I'll speak to Dave yeah to get it done yeah yeah I've spoken to Dave texted an email Le I got a response you know so I think we'll be good okay so in the meantime uh the next thing on the agenda is tree removal applications and you know permits and violations is a whole thing okay first so you know one of the things we've been trying to do though is keep account we should have an a monthly report done how many applications came in how many were approved how many were rejected and uh and how many trees were coming down and so on and so forth whe they be replaced I I think that that's doable I would prefer if I spoke to Kim Dalton First than got her input on it because she's the one who is doing 99% of the entering and and updating of the permits as they come in and as if Miracles don't cease if they call and tell us that it is done we are working on something to help us with that um it's not ready to be discussed yet because we haven't refined it enough yet but we are trying it's something that will be be attached to the tree permit basically the short course reminding the property owner it must be displayed prly window until the work all the work is completed and once the work is completed they are to call the minicipal complex and let them know that the work has been completed so we can then go into the our accounting program jungle lasers and noted as that because I mean I can go back 2019 18 21 I bet you 90% of them we don't have that but you know that's neither here or there we can fix it going forward and we're trying to yeah respon for posting the it is delineated in the ordinance and what I did is I took the sections of the ordinance that were pertinent we're going to put it on another piece of paper that will be a different color hopefully than the tree permit staple it to the tree permit and you get your tree permit here it is you know I don't know what else we can do but that it's like four things and it'll be you'll be able to read it uh from across the room it's going to bege all right right that's good so what we're saying is though at some point though it' be nice to see a report keep track well as I said let me I will be more than happy to speak to Kim and ask her how easy that is or speak to Sten on but or the folks at jungle lasers maybe they can generate it for us and just send it to me and I can send it to you I don't know well neither do I but I want to find out right and if you're going to be attendant to our meetings you know you can even go the information yeah okay so let's go let's go the circle did anyone uh did anyone get a chance to look at the email I sent out with the pictures of the two pictures Okay so went and look looked at it you know uh we'll take the harnell one first okay it's been there's a giant tree there it's been even up the sidewalk you can see where the if you saw where the base of that tree is above the side the one it's it's a massive tree okay yeah I'm not really quite that's that's like a gall it's the biggest one I've ever seen on tree I'd like to get a hold of that and run through a sawmill but I don't know how you pick it up yeah with your two hands I can tell you that okay okay so that's a tree that is in the right way and therefore it's you we're supposed to say yay or nay on the removal okay what supposed to say sh commission you know I mean so I'm and Bill based on Bill's opinion and what I've seen that tree uh should go okay I can see you best Judgment of that as far as I can see the tree is not doing any serving any purpose there C fact is causing problems side work etc right plus would imagine that at some point it become a danger it's little danger to people because it could fall okay we're all agreed so let's just vote to it's okay to take out the take it down okay so I'm just explaining why I no I agree with your process okay so I'm not just standing no no and you're 100% right the other thing is the Builder is required to put a new sidewalk right where the old sidewalk is which is under that tree as part of his development agreement so okay okay thank you I'll I'll proc I wonder why because I would think on the development agreement they would have shown the tree on the plans and and shown Where the Sidewalk was going around so something doesn't make sense well be that as it may it's history um the the sidewalk was a gross disrepair because of what the tree went on for years no I understand that but but okay let me finish and the tree is declining badly in my opinion the only way to put a viable sidewalk in there unfortunately take the tree out if it was completely healthy I would say wait find another way we got to do something else it's not that's not the case that is not the case the tree isn't serious decline they're large dead limbs that they cut out I made them cut them out um for safety so but yeah you're right but sometimes things slip through and I don't see if it's a if it's a complying application doesn't go before a board or anything else like that and that's normally where you catch that stuff and that is not a condemnation of anybody it is just what it is but so I can approve that and run it through the process and I will see if I can't get some substantial trees put back on that property well it turns out though based on what when Tracy ber was doing these kind of things we've got um construction applications they want to put in his fing they want to put into this they want to do that all these kind of things and if their Construction inv removals of trees and so on and so forth then they either pay or replace and so on and so forth okay but the current ordinances okay don't call for anything like that in trees and the right okay now you can ask people suggest but there's no requirement for them to replace those trees for theis ordinances we'll see what the let's take a look let's take a look at the actual see people don't even realize the way we've been doing things in town for years and years and years is not is in violation of the shade3 ordinance there's three ordinances the one for commercial the one for homeowners that we're redoing and then the shry commission has its own part of the municipal ordinances and the shry commission ordinance is what one thing it says is that let's say I come up to the mayor's house and I decide that I want to plant a tree in the RightWay in front of the mayor's house okay and so we plant one okay the plants it and then we build the mayor for the planting of that Tre that's what it says in the ordinance CH there another ordinance the supersedes that says you can't plant trees in the right way well no this tree this one came first if you want to get to it so we won't go we won't argue about that okay it's correct that's a whole separate issue though we can do that okay it also says that if there's a tree in that right of way that the um Township should we tell usually we tell a guy you got to take that tree out like this tree we tell him that's a it's dangerous tree you got to take it out but what the ordinance actually says is that the township will take the tree out and then build a guy for taking the tree out now on top of all of that in the meantime the shry commission ourselves we talking about this thinking about what what's the burden on one homeowner to take a giant tree for example right whereas um if every property that might be involved you know shared it you know there's a Township trees really the trees in the liary the township owns these it's really the Township's trees and right away okay and Patty who just miraculously showed up just in time to say happy new year or something Happ here it's Easter by now Patty but that's okay okay anyway so anyway uh she rewrote that ordinance the sh Tre commission fin the ordinance to take out all the stuff that says the town the CH has the power the township do this and do that okay that the sh we think the township Mr Mayor should take responsibility for the trees that are technically power trees you know out of the shade tree okay preferably out of the shade tree commission budget that they have from the shade from the tree well Well here here's the idea if we if we do right now when a bit when a tree which is the town owns all the trees but some people don't have any trees some people do have trees right so the guy who's got a tree these big trees could cost him $55,000 to take out okay now if you take the $5,000 and spreaded across the whole town right maybe everyone's going to spend 105 to take that tree out which is ours anyway you know as opposed to what the what it actually says in the ordinates today the real ordinates we take it out and put a lean on the guy's property so to speak or whatever it to his tax bill whatever that so to take that tree out you know so uh that's how the present ordinance reads right now that's what the you have to look up shap commission to see these things there but we're going to you know the D is requiring all towns to um be consistent with the ms4 permitting process they're putting out standards for um revising the Sha tree ordinances but the tree ordinances largely based on what we were trying to do based on density and number of trees you would suggest it a long time ago so that is so we are right so we're waiting for the D to revise their recommendations hopefully in another month okay um and then we're going to consolidate suggest the consolidation of all the ordinances so there's just one ordinance that covers everything and make it simpler for us make it simpler for people to chance to go through this but I think this whole thing I talked about by the street right away trees and so on and so forth right should either be part of that overarching ordinance or or or maybe still the sh Tre part but I think it should still be I still think that we should take responsibility for the trees because now I I saw a video you got to get these continuing education units okay so there's actually there's a thing called backyard forestry which is the New Jersey Forestry Association something like that has this three little things and you can go back online and see them so I saw one called shade trees and street or three trees in the law or something like that you know and it talked about let's say a tree falls down and and they had three the three case studies they had involved three trees that fell down and killed someone you know and the question is was the negligence or not because we're we're protected also by this community for forry thing where we get our accreditation is a New Jersey urban community forry type of thing no it's it's more like torque protection yeah but but negligence is not covering that you know so so it turns out that one of them involved the person who they had someone they had this was a person on their property and they but they had people come and check the trees out every year they were pruning and they're doing all this sort of stuff and it was determined by experts that you could you could not have known that this tree way down at the bottom was was rotted out etc etc etc you can see you can watch the video though I've seen the video I've testified court cases like that there are tools that we now have that help us a lot right but a lot I know but some of those tools you can't do that you're not going to do all that on every tree that has even dropped the Lim there are a lot of flags that 50 worth the field experience tell you that this species of tree of that size you want to look at I'm argument just saying but anyway the point is the idea is there's all these kind of things right so now now and these are these are Township trees right so people aren't as aware as the town will be aware if we actually have a real uh tree program in town which we've never had there's a quick example and I hav even sure they got these Got Served we'll talk about the tree survey on alurn and pine there used to be those humongous trees there that came down a long time ago and we put in a whole bunch of sugar Maples on a tree planting project that was recently successful we stopped at every house and asked them if they wanted a tree that kind of thing and so on so forth we put in somewhere around 118 20 trees something like that on a few you know those streets in that area but we didn't have a program and I saw another one of these things that show me guess we do this one because when trees get big you got to be liming them up when they're young okay well we didn't really do that so now these things the garbage trucks are getting hit the school buses are getting hit it's it's it's bad news so we're goingon to have to some point get in there and start we said do it now but it's going to be worse on the trees it's going to be much more costly to do than if we really had had a program to work on trees that the town home you know so that's another sort of a short for we've had and I'm hoping that we can get past that and have a regular program but that's where we need a regular budget of some kind okay now the the Sha fund that they has responsibility for the reason that fund got created though was the plant trees right that guy's building that that highrise yeah but are you limited to just planting trees out of that fun because if you have the shade tree fund that's your budget right well I'm not saying we are but want to plant trees right but I mean you can utilize some of the funds out of that if I'm not mistaken we can ask Ricky GS that if you can use it as a we've been using it that's what because we have so you using it as a maintenance piece too that's what it's mainly been used for in the last three four years because we haven't planted any trees now maybe some of the trees that got planted in a couple of places here and there you know might have come out of there for example that little thing near the library that little Memorial PL thing when did that actually April April right okay so those trees spent on those trees were going to my urban community forestry annual report as trees planted the trees PL and stuff like that so I've got to gather all that data now I was talking to Steve Higgins today about Gathering stuff about how much stuff he picked up leads and all that sort of stuff got to send them report and the stuff that so see what Mark said me in previous years but uh that might probably came out of there too what I'm saying but the but the point but overall the whole thing has to work out because at some point that fund uh as few and more buildings are putting in money into the buildings are putting money into that fund right and people maybe I don't know if the permit money is supposed to go into that fund no my knowledge it does not right okay the permit app the fee for a permit is an application fee um but the fine money goes into the fund doesn't it I I do not know the answer to have to find that out too um but the let's say they apply for a permit to take this tree down I go look at it significant specimen tree I explain to them the process if they want to remove a significant specimen tree they decide not to do any removal they're going to prune the tree and keep it that $100 is still owing so it's the cover administrative cost correct it is an application fee not a removal permit fee per se when when the sh tree fund was set up there were never any there was never any agreement as far as I know as to how that money would be used and I think it would it would help if we got together with Town Council and Dave maybe and decide you know here are the rules for using that money and if it's going to be used for maintenance maybe only a certain percentage could be set aside because maintenance could eat up the entire fund over the years and we'd never plan anything with it especially with as far behind we are in doing any me so we really ought to set up some rules for the fund which has never been done as far as I know I mean my understanding I'm reading of fund is that it's used for planning and maintenance of trees which includes if needed but I I also um and and as you know that that the decision the ultimate decision of the fund is the town manager and and uh with consultation of the environmental commission and the sh Tre commission so and we are also obligated every fall um to present a budget a year plan of what we think the year is going to be and what are you know and what those costs and what we want planning what we don't want you know what we need to remove to give them our budget for that so I think there's so much opportunities for conversation every year so long as we all know stick to what you know what the the the correct schedule of of what we should be doing at what time of the year what I these things which I know on the agenda we'll get to but uh so I think there's plenty of I think each year is going to be different there may be years where we plan a lot of trees and there maybe years we say you know what we got we had a big hurricane you know we had a lot of poppers come down we had a lot of Leland whatever I don't have I'm the processed person not the treated person okay but mean you know well no like if we have a hurricane Sandy it's going to be a different year than if it's a you know than if it's a year we don't have the same kind of issu so do you have a bu do you have a budget for maintenance and is there a specific budget you want have you talked about it do you know you do I mean as patty just said we need to we need to get Iraq together hey because if we knew that I mean obviously you know we're in 24 you know we're just starting to get into budget season for us but if we had some sort of idea as to what you were looking for what you wanted to do so technically the way it's written and we are not we are behind the aall and we what iing is it it's supposed to be submitted in November and that obviously didn't so what you mean a maintenance plan oh a budget a budget okay so what we um did do was we cleaned up um and I talked to Dave about you know we talked to Dave about this he said look clean up what's going ongoing for this year right so we had the maintenance truck you know which is going to have a water truck whatever we've got the plantings that we approved that can be done at Colonial Terrace um we talked about North edgmere and the cuttings that went on there and we're just trying to clean up some of the stuff we had to clean up and then we're going to try to have a fresh start with process let's keep moving on with the agenda we're going to hit a few things okay so with two items that I sent out pictures of the other one was 8 Mammoth Road 8 Mammoth Road is almost as soon as you come into town from West longone Branch on Mammoth Road um it's on the corner of Mammoth and lake and Lake okay there are two trees that bill also checked out I sent those pictures and one of them is right on the corner on the uh you know and it's it's up on kind of a a high the slope is quite steep there there as is the one of the one that's on the Northern end which okay there two trees one of which is in bad shape more Way Maple the northern most Street one more than one okay that was actually the bigger kind of closeup picture kind of looks like the other one is on the corner there are a few other trees right next to it that I think are also in the right way they're in the RightWay the biggest problem is the one who wants to take out is in the side triangle in fact all the trees that Norm just mentioned are in the site triangle for that intersection so it is a safety issue the second tree the one closest to the intersection is black walnut approximately 18 in in diameter not significant specimen is will be any good for lumber unfortunately but you know it I understand why they want to do it there's two problems one they're in a RightWay two they're on a slope of over 50 degrees it's pretty steep I'm in favor of taking out the enal but not the that's a safety issue it would be a safety issue if it were in the site triangle and it were large shrub correct but not the trade well well that's his opinion I'm no that's fine no no well this got a hook commission here so what what's your opinion on that do they that tree anyway they won't do anything for the sight triangle issue there are no low limbs on it the first first main crotch is approximately 25 ft I did not measure it but close enough the other trees are Norway maple saplings that have grown up and they are all less than 10in dbh I think there four of them in there in the first 25 the black walnut is literally right on the corner so I don't think the soil nice yes it is but they would not be permitted to take the stom out STS will eventually R yes they will but what I would ask them to do is contingency for allowing this is to put some ground cber shrubs on that slope to help stabilize um and I believe they will do that for conversations with the property I'm just curious so what is your biggest objection is it to removing the tree I just don't understand what what why you're where you're coming from because I don't understand so help me I I just one I don't think 18 in is much of a sight problem um you know a three three foot wide shrub might be but um but I'm also concerned about the soil and what's your concern about the hazard of it what what why would you recommend taking I I the only thing I did is I measured uh looked at the tree to see if it was going to be significant specimen I pulled my book out looked at it a not even plus I think black was around 34 this is way under that um and I knew it was in a side triangle I know how fast people come up MTH road because I come down it every morning to come in your work and then my second concern was the the pitch of the Hill knowing full well that we were going to have a problem if they tried to get the stump out the homeowner indicated he wanted to take the stump out I said no that's a deal breaker you can't you can flush it off and I believe I mentioned at that point in time I would much prefer some low ground cover shrubs that will not get high enough to be a sight issue be planted all along the bank why did he say he wanted to take the he did not see that's another thing they don't give you I don't think I don't think that's the reason to take it down all all I'm doing is presenting what I have to do by ordinance to all and you all make the decision I don't thank you I tend to agree with with you Ken that that stabilizing that bank and trying to keep it there is probably a very significant piece and the stem of the tree yes it's in the site triangle but it's not a hazard as many of other areas without the throughout the town is there an alternative to what you two guys are talking about another way of dealing with the whole situation you can't we're not going to start planting other trees in that area you can't BL so and we're not going to take the stump out anyway honestly I think this is a black and white deal you to keep it or you allow them to remove it with a caveat they have to put plant material that will not exceed say 15 in of mature height on that slope in a designated distance to stabilize the pain for the two now now the funny part about this is this the thing I'm talking about if we change the ordinance okay the Homer could request removal of a tree or whatever we would do with it right but he would not be allowed to take it out he wouldn't be the one taking it out anyway because all of that stuff would become our responsibility of course it's going to be our tree well that's why it was that's the other reason it was denied because it was in the Municipal Rec right now that's what I'm saying okay so that would be our choice and it's and and what I'm saying is so that means that our one of the respons that we're going to have in the future even more than we already have in reality anyway is to keep an eye on stuff like that for all the homeowners in town which is part of the things that's this survey that we're having done which I'm going to talk about is going to help now an extension of that idea tree then where does that fall with a negligence issue or if if we know it's in the side triangle we know it's our tree we don't do anything to maintain it and somebody brings it to our attention and we say no we're not going to take it down bingo bingo right but but there's a way it depends on whether someone brings to our attention saying we think the tree is dangerous which this guy hasn't done this guy so far just said he wanted to take it out he did not give a reason now I think does the ordinance say there should be a reason for when to take it there is no provision on a permit to list why why the trees come out I'm thinking about trees even on their own property there is no provision in the ordinance to indicate why the tree isable you see as a matter of fact the permit if the permit and the ordinance talks about trees in the right of way but people could say they want to take out you know what I mean then that that would have to that would change the ordinance also I don't know what whether the state ordinance talks about rideway trees independently let's try to move along and try and get to some of the things that we want to cover section -2.5 A3 says purpose of tree removal but if you read this permit there's no place on the permit for it then it was made up incorrectly before I got here sir I I'm sorry but don't tell me that the ordinance doesn't call for it they're also to call me and tell me when a work is done there's a lot going on that in print works fine it doesn't work worth a dam in the we'll have to address all all you have here is purpose tree removal severely damaged residential construction or golf course that's all that's available okay so Bill let's take a look at look when you get a chance look at the ordinance like that paragraph you know and it's come up we we can certainly change the permit I've already suggested that to a narrative to why they want the trees very simple yeah new construction trees are within building who's responsible fora getting back to eight mon Road I think we to take out the maple that that has issues but not the for and I will move discuss the motion V it down let's start with that and we'll see how what the in general okay so all in favor of taking out the maple that's in bad shape Tre should go okay and not taking out the no say St that somebody look further into it decide what the hell should be done with [Music] it unless we think the trees are Hazard we've decided that we're going to leave the tree to stabilizing the soil I mean this tree has been here for I we have no record of like cars crashing right around this tree or anything happening this tree's been here for many years I'm assuming I think the tree is high enough I think the tree is not in the standard I gu tree is between 35 and 50 years old okay so I mean it's it's part of our community it's been here forever it doesn't not dying it's I take a good look at at the sang but I I'm make sure it's uh it's higher off the ground than the usual tree that is on the based on what I heard tonight I hope to go along with is there something going on we don't know about all right so let's go to the next thing probably had chance to change it he's just he's just dressing for okay three ordinances we have the State now so we've got a copy here bill has we kind of have to give us a copy of propos State coordinance okay this is the proposed one well it's but it's more than proposed I think this one is close to being this is the one that is due to be adopted in May in May of this year okay but um conversations said it's going to be changed yeah about say conversations with Mr blash and some other people in that should be in the know they feel there will be at least one revision to this thing if not two they seem to think a reasonable time might be September of this year um rather than May because of the timeline they need to discuss all of this and then get it out originally what I originally heard about this thing two years ago and it may know when this started better than I but they were thinking the original date for implementation was going to be one January 25 so everybody would have a year to work on this thing and then get it but as far as the township is concerned you have a tree ordinance in place and um what I believe the prudent thing to do is and I asked Mr blash to look into this for me is send a copy of our ordinance as it is constituted right now to the folks that are doing this so they can look at it and go oh yeah you're good that I think what they're starting to realize this is me alone to have this ordinance for the 521 municipalities that are in the state well Elizabeth is going to have a whole lot different Urban Forest let me let me just go sure because we're not going to get to answer question we 10 minutes left the whole thing but first just to note in this thing these notes that are in mix inless dis ordinance municipalities that are accredited with the with urban community forestry which we are may continue to follow their talent establish forestry program has provided their accredited program addresses through removal and replacement then they get some more stuff here so so so right they're not going to come after us in the front of anything anyway given that we get our you know we got our you're you're you're already in the process I'd like everybody to do is take it home make some notes on it highlight what you think's good you know highlight in a different color what you think is terrible do we know if this is a minimum that you have the to municipalities have to at least meet this and allow to be stricter but not laer that is my understanding as of today so I think that that's given the the normal course of things that's pretty much you can't be less restrictive than those the only thing that I see that we have to view is is what the replacement trees are because the signes can be set by the municipalities according to this the application fee is set by the municipalities and you can plant trees somewhere else which is lovely let's move on to the to the gr okay the survey that being done and so so they completed the survey I saw the Davy guys walking around my neighborhood yeah we have many more trees than we than we thought do we have any interim report yet well we don't have quite an interim report but we have something that's sort of like an okay kiss around okay so you can see the parts of town that that got looked at and of course when treek keeper you'll be able to zoom in and get to every street and see every tree and identify every tree and all but one of the things that first thing that happened was they started talking I I was not paying enough attention to what it said it talked about sites instead of trees in the beginning of the proposal so suddenly they did they had 313 vacant sites you know that basically took them po there's no trees here kind of a thing okay but that was included in the total that we S one of 300000 trees right so talking to them we sort of traded off we were going to get kind of a planting plan which I'm not sure what that was going to do for us anyway you know was filling space with money that we could could get for the grant okay and so so they they collected a total of 3,155 sites 2,842 trees in 313 SES okay the yellow sites are where they looked those yellow things are just if you zoom in those would be individual trees but it would that each tree would probably zoom out to 50 trees 30 because there's no nothing on the West Side 35 with yellow dot right does that mean they didn't even go there correct we started counting we did we we prioritized we we prioritized we prioritized to begin with okay I still think I think we need to get some more money together and complete the survey okay yeah okay but we had we also did this to the level to the limit of we could we didn't have to go up and get bids from you know full bids by going Professional Services so instead of getting a say a grant for 50,000 we got a grant for 44,000 sorry we need to do that you want to make some copy okay we do there's no question that we have to cover up the rest call right but but we talk but one of the things because we needed to have the we needed to have if we wanted to put trees with with with grant money that we might be able to get that from what the EP told me those sites had to be surveyed okay and Joe player Park was huge okay and uh and then the various all the other Parks like they the rou park and so on and so forth and um and then the uh School properties most sever of which didn't have that much stuff okay so so there are things that didn't get covered you know but uh but I think this is a good start you know and we now have an idea what what we do and we go out and and um and get something else and and it doesn't mean we can't get another even more of a grant to continue to Ser we going to have access to look at yeah well here's What's happen here's what's happening they they now have to go they've got a quality control operation that goes on okay to look at stuff you know and they've got uh wow this this is early in the year you medicated uh twice of a weekness gracious cold CH back he still my beating i' get harassed the minute I in you've earned it you've earned the right just yes outside since you already have you know a working relationship with the folks from dve consider some of the trust fund money see if that could be used and just get them back here as quickly as you can try and finish this thing I don't know whether that's legal or whether or not you could um help me out here amend the do we know how much it would cost well I have to depends how many we have to we need to get our own little estimate again on trees you know again but that's that's to consideration I mean you have a fair amount of money sitting there right now I'll tell you one thing the guy told me this is what the guy told me when I went out talk to him in the street right they walk in the streets they park somewhere and they walk over the streets right if if he had a golf cart he could have said he could have done twice as many trees in the same am time well guess what that's infrastructure in the company hey just saying no I agree 100% but I I don't know how the municipality would feel about somebody run around a municipal golf cart on a road you know that would be something You' have to run by the legals or it would require somebody to drive it and that's not out of the noral possibility out right I'm just saying but the guy did mention that to me now of course that'll depend on much treats he was on talking about something like Yeah Joe play a park you you get an streets stre you know so it and that was to play a park at I'm third of our trees looking at the community forestry planning thing we sent out today and we have to do it in the future and includes overburden communities and we don't have any data on those communities and we need to actually get the survey to look in those areas as well so we have some data there um so that's you know we should get an estimate from d on what it would be to finish all the streets finish the streets I they should be able to give us an I'll talk to about that right now they're in they're in North Jersey for a few and then next week they going be in California this right I just you know call that but I just wanted just wanted to keep you know just keep things moving okay yeah then we have the um the shry commission true planning guide which is Patty thing about you know what are we going what are we going to want to do now one of the things thater one of the things that goes into the uh what do you call the community forestry management plan okay it's supposed to include an annual budget let face I think and the environmental so yeah we'll give them a little money so they go away what two pages two pages so so basically forgive the P but this is trying to look at the forest through the trees guys okay stepping back and I need to get chuckle um uh just trying to step back and uh and look at how are we're going to go about deciding how we make decision commission so that next November when we go to you know we go to um to um the championship we'll have had a whole process of how we've made the decision of where we want for to go and it includes Community engagement as well so this is just a draft we all look at but the first step in this um is um so as I said the goal is to have all of our ducks in a row and to know what we want to do so we can submit November uh when we need to for our budget and plan for the coming year so so this is the first draft of that this is the first draft of a plan just a plan of how we behave there's no there's nothing about trees and or where to put trees or anything this is just process right this is how we function you need this to do that yes exactly exactly so and we want to have increased Community engagement and as we saw with place of colonial parents they were really excited to get engaged in the planning trees in their community and and we could perhaps get the community more engaged in the planning of trees and where they want to see trees but also maybe help them value trees more as a community as well and maybe we can even slow trees being taken down let me be a dreamer um so the first thing is to assemble a Planning Group that's the first part of this um is to get the people that we we we develop a separate committee that's going to be engaged in figuring out where trees uh where people want to trees uh we let the media know we're working on this we we give enough build up and so these are some of the folks that we thought would be I thought would be important I did run this by Dave Brown as well and so check it with him and he goes yeah definitely um you know he wanted to make sure that there were there was um appr all the appropriate people so is there anybody missing that should be on a committee like this you'll see it includes the community council staff um business planning board member sh tree commission memb not enough to make a quum uh environmental commission member once you get to Citizen volunteers you pretty much come right yeah I think we've got all the way through it the that me was was the uh okay we've only got we've only got about a minute well you know what um then I'll just do the headline and I will ask you to take this home and look at it come back next meeting with your IDs because it will be February already and we're we're right so let me just point out a couple let me just point out a couple of quick things one the trees by the way were planted those those poort trees were planted at the intermediate school and we bought the um CEUs we I was pushing the C always at the end of every year but uh we really need to get eight cus and two different people during the course of the year and this thing backyard forestry it's called there's the Forestry Association whatever it is that's I think but those might be some of theirs too I think whatever it is right but both of those so I'm try and send out the things when I see what they are you know but try and just look at one you spend an hour at lunchtime one day and you know we get through that and we done for the year the see Stu yeah just I just wanted give a sales pitch to get that over with this year we we were close we were wer I'm not sure whether we would how close we would have been except that um Diane Surman took a course that was good for 24 cus and that doesn't carry over for the next years un do you need volunteers for that so so well we just no but we just have you just have to look at a couple of you below a couple of hours you know everyone on this patri commission watch two of them a year that get we got and it was one credit each that' be 10 so they don't have to be they can be spread out among a number of people just okay everyone could watch the same one and we' get eight you know eight people watch the same one we' get eight credits get even if you watch the same one get credits you can watch it with your husband then he'd get a credit you don't have to be on a commission or anything just have be someone who lives in the township of AR okay so so um just I just want to say about this before we move on you say it was a minute you can give me a minute um but the minus two minutes but minus three okay the um the um when you're reading this figure out think about the question of who you think are the appropriate and you know what the appropriate group for each section of this the Planning Group may want to do the actual where the Tre should go you know you might want to sh Commission vision statement and goals and or you might think the Planning Group should be doing this so so think about that because those were questions I had and it's up to this Bobby to determine how how you want so think about who um and always trying to keep it as as Nimble as possible so that it moves forward yeah we just s that up to us I did email this a couple months ago I can email it again would please can you email that to me so I have a copy of it you want a hard copy as well sure okay anybody want to uh go back in time and join the meeting on time move I volunteer for number seven I'll second okay okay anyone want to journ the Str commission so Ed can Dapper Dan can take the i' be