and that might okay before we get started just want to remind everybody that all Council meetings will be audio and video taped and shown on the townships Community cable channel channel 22 and Verizon files Channel 77 on cable vision can I have a roll call please mayor nean here council member chair yes K yes ter yes the notice requirements of the open public meetings act for this meeting have been satisfied and copy the annual notice was sent to the asur park press the coaster posted in town hall fil in the office of the municipal clerk on March 14 2024 uh we are going to discuss the budget so Ricky I will turn it over to you to give us some highlights and then uh we'll do so I mean uh I don't know how you want to run this one because normally we have the budget in advance we scheduled a meeting for the work session as we've done like now but now being told that this may be a little different the way we're doing it today uh well normally what was supposed to car I'm supposed to present it to you right and that hadn't been done in the past we got everything in advance before we ever sat that right so this is what is by by your uh Charter that's the way it's supposed to be it gets presented to you and then you have time to review it to get back and say can we change something so today is the presentation correct so I apologize for not getting to the in advance of prior to that but that's the way it's supposed to work and that's where we're at right now I think just so we know for next year we'd like to have it in advance before this meeting so that we can thumb through it was my intention there I apologize I had difficulties over the weekend and could not access my files okay that's on me Okie do all right so let's uh let's go uh let's get into it then where you want to start I'll uh I'll just start with a general overview right now okay our um our Appropriations are going up nearly $2 million uh primarily almost 1 point uh5 is for salaries through the contract SS um that's the police all of them all contract negotiations cor resulted in in a 1 million increase over one milon yes along with the normal steps that people would have been a yes yes um other expenses are going up roughly $820,000 uh that's primarily due to the normals the pension bills the insurance bills uh our health insurance that that accounts for like half a million dollars of it which is nothing we've looked into a gif to try to get out of state health benefits but our uh experience ratio at this time is not a good one what's our experience ratio right now we we we're over a 100 we are yeah we can't even come close correct we got to be where around 95 something like that to see the number that would make sense yes all right so uh it's not that we haven't tried but yeah we can't do anything over 100 it's got to be below I think 96 is like the The Sweet Spot and then anything below that is where you can start pricing it out can you explain that yes nobody wants to take you on it's going to cost them more to take you on with an experience rating over a 100 which means if you're paying $100 they're paying 102 that because of problems in the past or we have a heavy use of the health benefits I don't know the background of why is that what it means it's a heavy all it takes all it takes is one bad case for somebody to really get sick and that jacks up your percentages big time yeah it doesn't I mean you know you you could have all young people working here and your your ratio goes way down and you have people that are you know using it with your family coverage and you know you get one cancer case and it'll whack you completely out so stay in age Anything Can Happen yeah so I mean look it's you know I get it I mean we're looking at it over where I'm at looking at the uh the ratios and I and the early rumors already are that's already double digits for next year with the state because they can't find their way out of a paper bag to do something right but that's where we're going but we'll continue to look look and see what if we can uh you got to pay two grand for each time to the state to get your experience right they give it to you once every three years I believe free and then you gotta pay for it every time so we paid for it once I don't know how often we want to pay for it when was the last time uh we just did it uh October I think they've got it something like that September October so and about a half a million in uh what' you say in healthcare yes uh well the healthcare is 272 if you go to page three it details everything for you on our other expenses about a third of the way down you'll see employee Group Insurance there's $272,000 of IT workers comp is $117,000 of our increase and the penion goes are on page four for another 89554 for pfrs and 65115 for PS comp went up that much huh yeah now the state just came out not not that it's going to help your bottom line here but on how you can put it on inside the cap and outside the cap they just came out with local Finance notice because of everybody getting whacked with workers come so they're going to give everybody a break to move those Appropriations outside the cap but there's a calculation I got to do to move that but it doesn't affect the bottom [Music] water so Ricky what I didn't do the math yet and you probably know it so what's the proposed percentage increase from 44 to 40 from 422 to 4 well that's the good news if you look at the front page okay go ahead the front page right now the way I'm proposing is the average home is going to go up $21.60 on the municipal rate did uh what did Greg put in for the roads because I know we're behind on on the road program as it relates to money so we whacked it down every year he has for a little over 3 million I believe 3 3.29 you put in for I haven't bized the capital budget yet okay so that's something that Dave and I need to discuss that's where we seem to tend to get a lot of the the complaints on the roads because we've been behind so it's kind I think it's kind of an important I mean you know look there's five of us here so we can discuss it but I mean that's where we receive a large share of complaints 3 million John 3 million fortunately um the last two years capitals we've hit and taken care of the police for their isues and the uh the vehicles for the garbage trucks so moving more towards the roads and keeping our capital in line should work this year okay yeah I a question how many garbage trucks we done we did three last year so I think we only got we're only going to factor one in for the next three years right yeah I think I yeah I even said something last year to whack that down to two but we did three last year we did okay well it's less to do this year just for the record yes I mean based on well I guess this is Greg's engineering not Capital right this is just his engineering Capital corre not the township Capital that's what he said to me no it's it's the Township's Capital that 3 million let me do it a different way well no let me he said it was his this is just his engineering capital budget request is three point right yes so that's correct that would not include what you just as an example the garbage drugs correct got it correct all right just check yep thank you sir so looking at last year's uh recap so I see the the 2 million went up in Appropriations but 2 million down in revenue from last year we went from 40 okay I'm sorry I was looking at the 22 adopted was 40 million it's 42 MH okay sorry about that I thought I was accounting for 4 million short okay walk out the door I was kind of getting there I'm a little nervous that the tax increas is 21 but 4 million in the whole um well I've utilized a lot of different uh revenues to offset a big tax increase and that's up up oh no it is 2 million wait a second the 42 to 44 it is a 2 million change that's correct so it's down we have we're down 2 million or we're up 2 million up 2 million up okay got it this is 22 I saw the so the grants we only you're only proposing $103,000 in Grants this year that's all I have at hand right now that's a little depressing considering we brought in 300,000 last year we still paying that company we um you had double dip last year on the uh police Grant they we put it in your budget last year for their October 1st to se December 30th Grant and then they got it awarded again that we did 159 and included it again in last year's budget so you got those two one of which isn't here again for $59 $49,000 so that's one of them off the top of my head you will get the clean communities Grant during the year which is usually about 60,000 we' amend the budget at that point for that Grant I know Mike had a grant uh for recreation we haven't got the final um Step the letter that I can put it in yet but when we get that we'll just amend the budget at that point as well got it so can you go oh go ahead Dave I'm sorry no I'm just saying I mean it's it's it just seems like there's so much money out there but we seem to not be able to get our hands on it be nice to figure out a way to get some more grant money especially if we're paying per month for a grant writer correct um I'm sorry can you go back to my question so I asked you what the percentage was on the 2 million and then you referenced back to the 21.6 why did you mention that what was the reason you said it was good news I just want to make sure I understand I was just telling you that the average increase for the average homeowner is $21.60 ver budget right versus 156 the year before 108 the year before correct cu the house value went up no it has to do with all the revenues I'm using to offset the tax okay and the tax ratees down right well the tax rates uh it's subjective because of your assessed values going up a okay yeah it's the your your house is assessed at higher value you're paying more money but your tax rate went down in the last seven years correct which is what we've been hanging our hat on for a long time and it's going down this year you're proposed correct yeah so you're going to lower the tax rate 026 correct okay Municipal tax rate correct correct yes we know the uh County and everybody else school district is not cheap how many SOS do we pay for three five five yes we cut that that's half we pay half they pay half correct still so it's 125 each right now we have budget Ricky what is the difference sorry if this is the same format as last year what's the difference between the two adjustment columns on page one that's more for me than anything okay that's fine the uh thej the first adjustment column is everything everybody pretty much requested and that's what I put in so anything after that would be something I wanted to adjust and said you're not going to get this that or that well I'm using as example the grants on the page one that's because it wasn't the same Grant dollar amount so I just backed one out and put put the actual Grant award I have in okay project extend is down uh extend the money $44,000 less yes we um well with 1515 going by the wayside we had anticipated that over the last couple years right we don't appropriate for that now got it however the revenues are still pretty good so Ricky you got dealate commission nothing you got adjustments 125 that's page two what's going on there page two toward that's the interlocal where Jesse and I we're not we're not doing any interlocal with them anymore you're not with the daily commission no who's doing it then we're doing it but we're not just we're not doing it through an inter local to save some [Laughter] face and the City of planfield Bradley that's uh basically a wash right correct well yeah yeah make money I just budget what gets paid out I know we're kind of halfhazard here but I'm just flipping over to page four why such an expense on the water um you know water gotten a lot more expensive we using more water yeah the bills started coming to we had I think we had to make a transfer at the end of last year to cover them the specifics I'd have to check with Steve on yeah it seems like that would just see something like that should be I get gas and you know the weather and all that sort of thing but uh water's water yeah but New Jersey America water they did increase based on programs that they had I don't know if it was that much but what's the big water drawer for the town like the pool or something I mean there's only so much water the township uh facilities are going to use I'd have to get the I mean just just curious it just seems like a you know should be more of a fixed expense I get one or two 2% but you know I'll check with Steve on that just curious yep Ricky can you go back to John's comment about planfield and Bradley yes so Bradley didn't happen in 23 that's why it's in the adjustment column planfield did it was 56 now it's an additional 29 to 85 meaning we May 1st there you go December very good thank you and I'll bite why is Jesse's budget decreasing 36 there been 11 election ah nice I just I just got a final bill that they forgot to send from last year's municipal election was hesitating to tell you about it but it was only 2,000 that we can scrape up Jesse I'm not going to bother him right now and planning up by 25 thank you John I was on the same line and judgment why going up so much because they have more me page three y the professionals between CME and Higgins and all the activity but we see that in Revenue somewhere else correct okay UCC right that's where we get it from uh well they also charge $1,500 an application for any planning and door zoning right application right so okay she's down there yeah she's looking into that right now and deferred sick leave down by 90 how come that's down so much well if you recall the last meeting I had presented to you and you passed the two resolutions that I uh transferred the money from our appropriated reserves from 23 over there okay to save money for this year's budget okay so it's already in our Reserve to cover us same with the F vacation yes what's pfrs police of fire retirement system so I know this is an interesting question but I'm sure you don't really have a great answer for but do we ever see this insurance ever flattening or going down or is this just going to be is this going to bury everybody because this is never going to end $272,000 increase this year what's next year going to bring 10% I mean this is a I think this is a systemic problem not an Ocean Township problem yes it's across the state if you're in the state health benefits there's no doubt are there options or there are no options well like I mentioned previously we looked into so if you don't have this lower number you're not getting out of this system no you can you're going to pay for it you can take a gamble on being self insured but that's like shooting yourself in the foot at this point I mean you know there's 500 and some OD municipalities what is everyone else doing are they just eating this if they're in it yeah I mean there's I don't know the percentage but I think like third the state doesn't participate so a third of the state and what do they do they're self-insured that's very self-insured hips mhm um combination of the hip and part Self Insurance yeah there's all different variations out there do you know anybody who's successful with with what they're doing Al alternately I haven't heard anything bad about freeh hall Township free Township seems to have it under control yeah um I mean a lot has to do with getting that ratio down first I mean you going to a self- insured plan with a ratio that is for suicide yeah because you're going in paying 102 or 104% of whatever each dollar that goes out so you know and the problem with that is we're already high it could go higher correct so now I mean obviously we have a bad Trend right now as it relates to health benefits I was in this boat rwat and I think we're actually below 98 right now which is rare and where I'm at but you know there's a lot of younger staff that have started too what happens when a lot of our employees go hit 65 and are eligible for Medicare they go into a different plan which is a lower rate on our retire so does that help the it helps but we don't have that many I think it's one person right that's it she's marathon runner sorry Jesse you know just work damn it yeah set it up it's good so we want her to stay forever we so the rates are lower Dave there's your answer there go want to lower the rates we people they're 65 our Cedar Village and Rolling Meadows friends experience with that experience lot of wisdom I do see this being a systemic problem down the road though I mean this at some point this is going to break somebody it may not break Ocean Township but this has got to break somebody well the problem is that they keep it's a exception to the tax line so everything above the 2% yeah tax payer has to eat yeah and you know unless you have all the revenues to offset it obviously so being it outside the cap I understand that you think it might break it yeah but they're going to say no it's not going to break it because the taxpayer has to pay for it yeah uh Switching gears have we received any uh income from from the new um property down the road there is that budgeted in and all uh the Miller Al house and all that paramont property over there we had I don't know if that was part of uh Bill's uh addit and omitted assessments yet I'm pretty sure it probably would have been but we had 1.8 million and added and omitted assessments last year which we kept 1.5 million up M so I'm not sure if that's in it yet I can check with Bill but he did a y's job catching up on a lot of stuff that uh and he's still working yeah I won't point a finger but just no I know got missed here or there yeah I heard this so yeah so I mean that's that's good stuff I mean we want that stuff online sure you know the housing wouldn't have started yet anything that has completed with the cosos like the things that are open should be on yet it omed yeah any expectation on the hotel when's that opening up July July that's what they you mov yeah okay going to have a liquor license yeah every little bit helps right yeah sure um that cannabis money is going to come in handy when's the weed money coming in when is it coming got to approve it's not approved yet you got to they have to meet and then at the next meeting said he's going to bring it up I mean I guess they'll present you know the the five that they think are the right fit for the town and then they get wrong there's five resulting bits there's actually seven okay so they done select seven for five licenses well no we've only um that'll be discussed in Clos session on that one but that's you know I'm thinking Q4 on that to see something potentially and then 25 is when you're really going to see it so I mean you can forget 24 it's already you know you're almost done with the first quarter first quarter's done in you know two weeks so you're not going to see any money from that forget 24 I I I you know you might see a little bit at the end third fourth quarter so from your side of the fence is that golden ticket money is that unbudgeted money that you didn't expect does that help uh exponentially or is it just kind of goes into the big uh I think it would definitely help no doubt it you know it's a revenue stream that you don't currently have yeah so depending on the volume that these places might end up doing I mean free Barrow they brought in 2 $60,000 in 23 okay a whole year or is that a quarter um half year half year that's actually less than half year oh that's good really yeah I think they they allowed it as June I mean it's like slightly under apologize they didn't bring in 260 they anticipated that they would get 260 but it didn't like M it didn't go for the whole year right yes and they have four licenses okay so only 50,000 A license they just started no no they don't have four places that get taxed 2% on all their sales only one is only one is Operation misunderstood um so UCC I don't know if I ask this so you've budgeted a million each year and obviously the revenue is considerably higher that's kind of a windfall if we get it you don't want to anticipate less than that but it's actually something that I uh want to speak to Dave about that we might play around a little bit without that that one too instead of using so much suplus because we've actually fully stocked them down there and have overtime to get everything out the door so we can't make money off of it we're correct so we might adjust that higher and reduce what we are anticipating right now in the Surplus I added an extra half million dollars at of surplus right because of the wind4 we had with the edal minutes right uh that will I'm pretty sure not continue be a windfall that big every year but there will be some add it no minutes to sustain an $8 million on their fund balance about we can do that I think I've asked this question last year what is the number in your head as far as keeping a surplus like I I know we always want to save for a rainy day but when does it become too much or too little I is it a percentage or is it just I usually use like 3 and a half to 4 and % of our operating budget as a bottom line that we should have in Reserve at all times after we've budgeted what we budget yeah that's the magic number that's my magic number there's some places that want 10% yeah so it's you know I I there's there's a little town called Upper freeall Township that has more Surplus than they have on their annual budget really really you ever been to Upper freeold I rid my bike through it yeah there very interesting place what are they doing all that how the res let that uh earning interest right now they don't spend to pay it's an interesting place to be but I don't know what you're doing with the taxpayers money sitting in a bank account what's other special items of Revenue on the first page if you go to page six it'll detail that for you six and seven on your right revenues so generally speaking you feel like the town is in a good Financial place at this point no doubt you have a things are good is it because the housing value is great or is it just good management we're keeping things in a good fiscal place I think it's a combination of both you know you're obviously your the ratables out there are just overwhelming which tremendously helps yes yeah and there's people that just want to come here yeah you know which is always a good thing we're very fortunate that we have a healthy financially healthy municipality I mean it's it's been that way for as long as I can remember more importantly you have people who pay timely yeah so you know saving on delinquent notices and chasing people down and having to do stuff what's our rate it's like 96% or something like that collected I mean our collection rate's almost 99 which is that's great and that's without having an accelerated sale where you would sell everything and get it all I assume in other towns it's not 99 no so that's a good thing right that's a very good thing well the um changes in the the liquor licensing that I think just came out will that have any effect on us like will that be Revenue to us or no they're they're allowing um I don't think wi stuff in non-abc licensing I don't think that those um the sale of alcohol I don't think goes to the assessed value of the property so I don't think it would impact no reap no benefit reap okay no but uh I know that if like we get a hotel license that's you know additional for the the license 2500 okay so $2500 okay I just thought maybe we'd be getting some more oh I was thinking because they also have l they they had a couple of exceptions like they're allowing additional um licenses but they're for like malls and things that I don't think the township has Ricky can you go back to S Plus a second so you're proposing 8.06 mhm and that's the n number after and if we use any of it say that again please yeah I'm trying to phrase it the right way so that's proposed without you anything that may be used out of the Surplus is taken before that number meaning the number would have been higher if we were going to use any of it the end result of the budget is 8.06 correct so and I'm sorry to a different format but so what are we using in Surplus that 806 we have about 12 million available oh that's what I'm looking for okay where's the 12 that's what I'm sorry oh got it okay that's what I all right that's where I was thank you okay that's what I'm thank you sir so the pool fees went up pretty decent but the revenue for the snack bar went down doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense well because the membership fees are paid irrespective of when the weather comes and there was a lot of rainy days last year so the snap bar just gets closed okay which would save us correct save us uh what do we call that're over there yes thank you the guest fees is what the what gets impacted because of the weather right but I told Mike that you know with all the pools that are going in in town how many people are signing up for this stuff because every time I turn a corner there's a pool being put in just town right good point pool has a certain following you know says you know what would be interesting since you just brought that up we'll ask Mike how many in town versus out of town such you just fair question on your end that's simple enough to get right out of the system why the celebration of public events double just curious I was told we need money that's really funny okay go throw a party um page eight Ricky the um golf utility salaries obviously doubled because of the um the Cave the Cave yes the 10 PO is that going to make us any money are we going to break even on that i' we're hoping it's going to make us serious money it's got to pay back the debt on it otherwise I'll be getting another notice from somebody move Mone and you might get another email price of the utility will probably go up too they go hand in hand don't they yeah usually on page seven is some of these donated things like uh P purchas def fibulator Dr Newman somebody donated that that's correct Dr Newman donated she uh wanted to buy the defibrillator but it would have cost her more okay so was easier to donate the money and have us buy it as the burger estate gave some money correct that start yet we do anything with that I don't believe so did we accept the money I mean I see it's here okay I I knew we had to I have the cash that's cool earning interest earning interest interest went up right are you getting any more interest on anything or is it just yeah oh yeah that's helping right if you look uh on page six we anticipated 231,000 last year we realized by 5 62,000 that's a huge difference that's why I was asking because I remember doing this a few years ago the interest rates were nothing and it was we were basically getting probably it it out of your budget not anticipating anything correct but that works directly and corresponds to your debt as well you're pulling down a note it cost us $275,000 to pay that note last year when the year before was only 58 so they going hand it in oh it's not locked in not our our notes our notes are annual so whatever the rate is annual oh I'm sorry okay what you got right okay good thing is on that is that probably next year when we lose an issue we'll go out again and get rid of whatever we have outstanding Advance may it permanent is The Debt Service in the budget yes page five that's what I'm asking is there what the hell happened I'm sorry so it's not just me like I was just on page five six you want to give me one second I'll go get you page five I apologize that's why I took that accounting class count all the way to six that class was a nightmare are you correct I don't know I think I didn't get past statistics I took two accounting clubes it took financial accounting and managerial accounting I was like what's the and they prided themselves on beating the heck out of the students and where was it Delaware just talking to Dave today about yeah it might be haris one who has the pilot who's got Heritage which one it's it f the first I think it's 777 that has it how many years and I don't know we don't have any of them expiring where we're going to start seeing that I have to go I don't think we have a lot to begin with I think that might be the only one really we been good is that the um Heritage I think it's the adult uh I mean the um you're age restricted I think that's going to go years I think I think that was re Ricky which which one's the pilot Heritage Village uh there's actually four PL block allows to pay us on a pilot all the heritage heritage one assume it's all three heritages no Prim is in Heritage um well I think that just got reset for another 30 years if I remember not I wouldn't say like within the last six months but I think within the last years or two they they flipped over it CI is that the one that CIS that's what I'm thinking right yeah that just got reset I think what was it for all the sites whatever the CIS whatever they they manag three uh four I could look to see R might know exactly what but um the pilot up to I'd have to look the I only go by block and lot I don't know the names up down suie sends them to me by block and lot so 1.02 there's two I think ocean something Heritage Village at Ocean and Heritage Village at Oar yes yeah that sounds familiar yes and then on West Park uh Pond Village Primrose not Primrose um well Pond Village is the one in between Hidden Meadows in um brimrose is here whale Pond is over here right and then what's the one on West Park that's Hidden Meadows no um the other end I'm sorry revelt Rosevelt Rosevelt revelt that's oh God popular Village popular there's probably one too yeah so there's four we think he say there's four are they all 30 years or is that what you're looking at I don't know um he does the bilding I just I'll check on this my my initial thought is yes but I'm not I'll I will uh point out that um West Long Branch Court expires on March 31st we haven't solidified that they are coming back as of yet sh Serv yes if that occurs these numbers are going to be changing a little bit what do we make off that we have anticipated right now $61,000 and they may be potenti correct that's in two weeks uh there was an email sent by Dave again today to this their manager he said he'd be back within 48 hours to us um just for the record oh this is other expenses sorry What's the total um debt that the town has the total number Ricky I'm sorry to interrupt you you said 161 or 111 161 page two show am I missing it West W BR report 111 you're only seeing salaries and wages there we yes yes I am all right good answer revenue is 161 517 excuse me our outstanding debt at the 123123 was $2,480 th000 that was permanent debt big chunk of change for the size of the town for your ratables nothing just sounds like so much I know it sounds like a lot of money not at all now now look at your 8.8 billion billion dollars of worth can't even do the B 20 million your permitted debt is based upon the last three years average assessment 10% million 3% you're nowhere near it there people have hit that three and a half and have to go to local Finance board every time they want to do something you're nowhere near that I think you're at 0 52% right what happens if a if a you know like something in the 80s occurs where all the housing market just absolutely bottoms out I mean I would imagine that town could be really in trouble you're a rate just I mean I think we're still paying the taxes yeah depending on you know that b went out what people are doing to survive to pay their taxes you know what's going to happen Dave if that happens now you got your uncollected taxes cuz if that happens s and people aren't paying the taxes there is where the problem is not the taxes itself but you know go I appreciate bring him in that perspective putting it into the universe thanks I've been wondering why if you got anything positive to say well the weed we owe too much money wait we owe too much money my crash it's going to bottom out just uh keep it real positive Dave think positive so if in I know we've discussed this high and Sky stuff but if we indeed want to do a giant Capital project like build a brand new town hall MH is that separate and different from this whole thing this is something that we would raise money on a different level this is no no so it's very much part of what you're dealing with correct okay y if we were to do it on our own without any private Partnerships with us it would be a regular Capital Bond ordinance and we'd F the bill got it and there goes our Surplus and there are some options out there right sure different uh public private deals and got got it CU I know that was a conversation we've had I mean with our current debt I mean we're we're in great shape debt wise Mike you I mean I agree with you it's nothing compared to what the even if the Valu even if everything tanked out you're still way below what what the values are I mean even if you lost which is not going to happen but I mean if you were to lose half the property value I mean you still you know you're still at a number that's you know for the amount of debt we have is not bad at all your your debt service in your operating budget is below 10% of your budget the state starts to worry about you when it's over 25 so you're not even near having a problem with your debt all right and we keep rolling anyway we keep paying stuff down it's not like I said next year we're going to lose an issue yeah so that's the time I we go out again and keep everything flat do you have the open space trust fund in here somewhere it will it will be 800 uh it's 1% of your uh R so your tax ly there will be 87 $2,671 okay uh we put uh a mwell property we paid down $692,500 on that band that we had outstanding so we have a million dollars left to pay that then I plan on paying over the next two years half a million dollars each that go by the way side good and then remember you got that I mean at some point that open space trust fund if you know we do this town hall I mean we look at that number and that remember when we started it the valuations were only four .5 billion so we were pulling in about 450,000 we're pulling in double the amount so I mean once Ricky gets some stuff paid down and we look at this town hall project I mean you got half of that money if you want can you use it you can't use it for that but you just cut the tax down a bit that's always an option but that's to be discussed down the line so I mean the debt right now and then when we sell 1515 that money will be applied towards that particular debt or the other we'll use it as a revenue stream to pay down more debt correct not necessarily that but debt in general yes yep just looking at this Rick on page one I want to be David Debbie Downer down D however you want to say it Mr fiscal management over there on the positive side well depending on who side of the equation you're on so if I'm doing the math I and you don't have 2017 on here but if let's say we went back to 17 and you might know this answer without looking at this in seven years basically our overall assess value is almost doubled yeah is that fair mhm give or take right yeah even if you said 42% I well I was going one more year prior to that cuz I'm thinking that's 94 but right you knew that answer or you did the math in your head no I don't damn any Department short on Manpower that they're looking to hire no I think everybody's fully stopped yeah yes is that a good thing like I said that the court would be my only thing that we would have to address if we drop are they going to do it in house do they want to go to a different town uh they were looking to uh go to Ocean board I anybody else want to come on over don't know Kell according to the DCA Township has four like Ricky said they're all affordable housing Pilots so um those are typically 30 years 30 years yeah so we did a 30-year pile on this I think they actually renewed additional so I think it's been like 30 years might be have already done and then we re yeah there's one that's been on the book since the 60s I believe what yeah popular vill but her the other three were brand new well not brand new but they're not 30 years old if they've been I was I was refering I was referring to that one I know when they transferred it I think they were looking to ref would kept that way because it was us but these we wouldn't continue a pilot well the problem is if you say we're not going to no longer pilot we're cutting out the owners typically say okay we're going to convert these to Market units and then our affordable housing number goes so then we don't have a choice we kind of get back what a racket wow freaking we got to find the right industry that like that's the that's the goose that keeps giving for them uh for the affordable housing people for yes CIS and them oh no uh honestly I don't know what their bottom line number are but I don't I just know that the what the law is on right so those numbers need to stay up MoneyWise it's definitely a loss for the town if we stop the pilot and we yes oh we're not winning on the pilot either no in theory yeah but then we don't make up that house that would be the problem I'm good for now yeah whatever you have the book with you when you have a chance to go through the book just shoot me any question J I got a text from somebody was looking at the video because it was streaming it live somebody from the environmental committee should notice that you didn't print on the back okay thank you we recycle the paper don't worry that'll be in my office for the next 10 years along with the other ones right right in the garage yeah um just one last question on the revenue the um the Board of Ed is that anticipated or is that realized because I know we're thinking other shared agreements with them aren't we what are uh page are we on I'm sorry uh six six Board of Ed shared service offset Board of Ed S3 yeah that 125,000 they pay so that's realized already so that'll go up if we get this other agreement in place or aren't we thinking about ultim additional that that's the police officers the Board of Ed yeah Special Law enfor Officers those C okay your answer still may be right but I just wanted to clarify well we the police off we do other shared services with them but they're not no but we're talking about the whole other one yeah I mean that's down the line if they if they go there you mean on Cindy and yeah yeah yeah yeah that's oh yeah that's so that would be above and beyond yes yes like we talked about the potential of doing the buses and correct so would not happen in 24 which is why we're not definitely not 24 because we're we're far off on that over there Greg's still waiting to find out um we use it the environmental impact and you know how much of that space he can use and can he use what he's got um you know there's some things that he's got to work through and then you know talk to the board and see what they decide they want to do I tell you I would like to have a conversation about the grant writing you know MH yep I think you know it's it's not that I'm picking on this company I just think that um and have been you know it's time the return is not there the return is not great so I had that conversation coincidentally right before we walked in with Dave just shooting the bolt were you in the room um and Matt sings there PR Now Matt Matt was I I'm here I'm sort tongue and cheeking but um you know my stance on it I agree they did make their money but Dave did point out that they wrote the recreation Grant and I he didn't specifically say what the amount was but that it more than paid for itself last year I'm not ready to get rid of the company I just think that there's we also don't have them on a fulltime like we're not paying them that correct we adjusted their billing we're getting uh we went to the bronze program I don't even know if it's some bronze I mean I think they give us what the grants are and then you for environmental this year I'm not sure how that works I just know that we went from 650 a month to $4,800 annually oh yeah so we're yeah you're not really they're giving us what grants plus 15500 every time they write one right give or take yes which that's time and material that's fine if we don't want them to do the grant then they don't do it so if it paid for itself last year we we just start we're only three two and a half months into this thing so far is that that's what he said right Matt he said last year yes paid for itself last year yeah I I I'm sorry I would agree they should be more Pro active or at least come to us and explain what's going down so I ask Dave to have set have him come in here and explain I me I mean that I I don't would welcome that there should be an entire portfolio of what we can go after sure all right so why don't we have them come into uh not there is an entire portfolio that you can go after but I think that's the level of sers that they give you on that because I they they utilize the same thing uh in Playing Field and every month there which technically we could Google and find with all due respect technically if you yeah but to be honest who's going to go these employees are already stretch thin I mean you want them to go search out grants but $400 it'll take three searches huh I'm saying for 450 that we're paying if if the grant work is that easy no no no it's not the work it's not the work no no no no that's or even finding the it's horrible yeah it's and you and I talked about that like they're all wonderful that's why I gave it up and then there's a whole Ricky who who administers our grants cuz that's a whole separate they know we we yeah so Dave in the I'm going through this discussion over and my away the the thing that actually pays my living where I actually you know make money going through the same thing with their grants I mean we've got a grant writer over there that's not really up to par on on what it is cuz it's very difficult um they're looking at different innovative ways to pull in the grants because they don't know where the educational grants are all the time I mean they're not it's not as easy as you think looking I mean it's not I mean Google up a grant and and look it up there's you know that's time consuming so if they're cutting out all that time um you can have two choices you either hire the grant company to actually do full service they blow it out you could hire a grant writer for $100,000 a year and and they can do it but that's four times what the company was company was what around four three four 3,300 a month a month okay so they're 36 $339,000 a year you hire somebody at a even at 8090 rant you know plus Benny's I mean they're triple what what you would get with a company that actually has a team so I'd be more inclined to do a team as opposed unless you got somebody really good you know to do a grant writing no I listen I think the time and material way we're doing it when we pick the grants that we want them to go after IE Recreation we pay them based on that writing that makes sense I'm just but they don't offer a program where you can or so I thought when we changed this however long ago we changed it you still had to pay that minimum amount each month in order to get them on a time of material basis after for each Grant right you can't just call them and say listen I I want you to go after a grant correct right the team already ask them to do so we can't go any lower and if it's paying listen I'm the biggest person that's against it but if it's paying for itself I'm also the biggest the other thing is I bet you there's and I wouldn't even know where to look but there's got to be other grants out there that would help this town such as storm water mitigation grants what are they doing Highway you know stuff like that that we need for the municipality not necessarily Recreation which we always need anyway but we need the bigger grants so I mean I maybe we meet with the company we have a meeting um after we do this budget you know I maybe set it up for may have them come in because you know March is done April we have one meeting and we're going to introduce the budget I don't think you know unless we have them come in in the work session in April I don't have a problem with that you want to see if they're available April uh the April meeting I I obviously I think the sooner the better on the grant piece yeah and I think what we do is have questions and you know see what you what we're looking for as a municipality and see what they can offer and look I'm with Rob if it's if we're not if it's not paying for itself I agree with you if it is or it's doing like like David said then we keep going with it I mean we you know obviously we're getting something out of it we don't have a specific grant writer here in town oh no if they if they're winning I'd rather keep it off the pap don't but I'd rather keep it off the rob you have to remember also the former manager didn't communicate with the grant writer and I have the phone messages still saved and a couple of emails where they couldn't get any response for nine months so these guys basically sat on their hands and we blew $3,300 a month while there was no communication so I mean that was another thing there was a bad start to the thing as well it was under mik that's when we started I didn't mention a name I'm sorry I'm just mention didn't mean to imply that way I forgot when we started said a former manager that's all I said but that's how it really shook out we lost a good almost a year let's do it okay yeah let's have them come in the workshop yeah okay you know have to do the workshop the 11 by the way while we're here did you two ladies ever uh set up any did anybody set you guys up with a call for uh the guy we met with for the um Redevelopment uh Balman that was that name bman um you guys have to we we met with him uh Redevelopment uh area need you know all that stuff so can we set them up with a call or a what's what's the best way to do it co I let me know when you're available I'll uh have them set up a zoom if that's the best you want to do generally available yeah we met with him the day that you two were out three of us were in so just yeah I I just think you guys should probably listen to what you know sure or ask him the questions that you may have I mean we were all in agreement it was it was kind of a kind of a no-brainer to do what we're doing and uh you know getting some push back over there the one piece of property that the tenant gee dropped out it's funny so the 9,000 ft tenant That was supposed to be going in that one property so now they're not there isn't that funny on a different condemnation note the fence is almost done it's good blocks in all the bins in the back I I stopped because there well it's funny you say that cuz I didn't know it until you how many back there a good 608 at least big BS oh I'm not talking like three or four I'm talking whole back is I he didn't have to remove black and yellow they've got a yellow lid and black where that's not part of the cleanup is getting rid of them the bins yeah they're neat why I get rid of them cuz there's something else going on over there so that's an important hence the reason why you need to call Joe B correct okay that's a positive thing Joe bman okay I think another room the size of another room that's the questions we get uhhuh oh no they're they're there's they're big they so some could you put in the B no they're not that big no no no no no they there's a lot all of them combined in three or four rooms there's huh more oh yeah there's a lot of them back there any other budget questions uh one one general question you want us to well so next steps traditionally we've looked at this and then we've had another meeting to address it we're going to do it that way well do you feel like we need to have a budget meeting or do you want to just do what Ricky said in email that's what I was going to suggest Jess okay I'm good with that personally I think I'm comfortable I mean G might want I don't want to speak for you reading to do that sounds fine I'm good with you know if we got questions or whatever you know send in a Ricky and go over it and then it works I don't want not as a group if I indiv if you haven't already met R you may want to meet with him just throwing this out there not to give you more work no I'm happy to yeah let me know okay I'll email you okay so we'll introduce on the 11 we'll introduce on the 11th um adopt on the 9th of May the ladies will set up a zoom or a call or whatever with edevelopment gr writing and grant writing yeah we want them in on the 11 for the session yeah let's let's get them in April this soon unless Ricky do you want to come into the work session uh the be here 11th I mean the uh we can schedule the grant riter for what do we mean 30 minutes that okay so figure 30 minutes for them and Ricky Let's uh put him at 5:30 so Grant Rider five Ricky at 5:30 and then we can hash out any last budget stuff we can carry over and we have a lot for closed next meting are we pretty offand I don't think so yeah I mean closed has been been very short lately so if we carry over with the budget stuff we could schedule ourselves an hour for the budget 5:30 to 6:30 and then 6:30 hit close session and then meeting good sure any objection any other questions while we're hear anything else you want to go over thank you while we're in work session no okay okay uh motion no just note for the record there are no there is no public here so to open it to the public I'd like to ask the public if you have any questions nobody here seeing here none do I have a motion to aurn so mve second all in favor don't go anywhere's GNA me I don't