ready wait where's DAV he said he'd be right here all right we just want to remind everybody that all Council meetings will be audio and video tape they'll be shown on the township devotions Community cable channel channel 22 on Verizon FiOS and channel 77 on cable vision roll call please mayor NE here council member chair here Fisher here Terry here the notice requirements of the open public meetings act for this meeting have been satisfied and a copy of the annual notice was sent to the Asbury Park Press and the coaster posted in town wall and filed in the office of the municipal clerk on December 14th 2023 let's start off with our items for dis uh actually wait a minute are we doing Jesse what do you want to do first want to do the public want to do gy first sure let's do uh gym first computer sh okay I don't we're going to go over impervious coverage Ser uh impervious coverage first with Jim Higgins so Jim I'm gonna um let you just briefly go through uh what we're discussing just encapsulate it for us so that we're not you know reading the entire thing you know it involves uh changing the impervious coverage requirements and the building coverage requirements in the residential zones only not the commercial zones to try and come up with a impervious surface coverage that makes more sense that doesn't result in a lot more runoff than currently exists in the township so what are the main uh the the main changes that main changes are to eliminate first of all the the requirement for measuring the uh impervious on what's called build of a lot area which essentially 75% of the total lot area and comparing it instead to Total lot area and changing the uh impervious coverage requirements for the R1 through the r all the R3 zones to 45% of Total light area whereas it currently exists it's probably around 55 to 60% of Total light area so it's a significant reduction there yeah and then the issue is with these smaller size Lots if you keep it at 45% basically by the time you put a house on there you're not going to be able to put much more in the driveway and maybe a small patio so the real question is what percentage the council would want to allow for those smaller Lots the 10,000 s foot and smaller the way the ordinance is structured now it's 50% and I know in discussions I've had earlier with Kelly and Rob they feel that maybe 60% would be 65% would be better which is comparable to what it is today 60 to 65% in on the smaller lot smaller Lots yeah just on the smaller Lots on what the 50 by 100 100 by 100 50 by 100 and the issue there the problem there is that the ordinance right now allows for uh roughly 67% of the lot to be impervious on 100 on 100 by 100 and if you bring it down to 50% or 45% 50% you're going to create a lot of non-conforming lots in those zones but Jim if you have 45% of the lot correct correct me if I'm wrong that's 4500 4500 square ft yeah that's right who's going to put a 4500 square that's 4500 square that's a 9,000 foot house well no you're not going to put a you can't put a 9 you can only put a 200 2,500 foot house that's 25% so then you would have 20% of the lot 2,000 sare ft okay for impervious right and by the time you get a driveway that's 800 to 1,000 square ft so you're limiting what can be done and the bigger problem is that you've got a lot of these lots that have much more coverage now and you're making them a nonconforming correct me if I'm wrong if we're building a twostory home mhm and let's say it's 3,000 sare ft yeah isn't the B the bottom isn't it500 Square ft that I mean assuming both stories are the same right that's a box yeah it's a box yeah so I mean even if we're at even if we're 2,000 square ft on the bottom level that's still a pretty significant size yeah yeah uh I'm on 100 by 100 I have a deck that doesn't qualify correct that wouldn't count as impervious I think the de counts as impervious absolutely mine did yeah yeah it does absolutely How does it go forp it's in the zoning that it's there's get off is 100% out under there really absolutely I thought the water s in what really all right I mean I have I have an in the back the in anyway so I'm I'm got to tell you some you learn something every day thought the water would trickle down that would that would me too yeah thought that I mean I'm even less I have an easan I got a pipe gun in the backyard I can't do anything but now I lost my try of thought what was I going to say 100 by that's good let's keep going 100 by 100 um building I got the deck I would thing if you kind of youa around the pool which is 3T minimum yeah mhh but the pool the pool doesn't count but the area around the pool does count you can lower it and it can fill up I know I learned that today that's what I learned today I learned that a while ago yes it's pretty neat yeah I don't want we I I don't think we want to make it so restrictive that you can't on that I think we're making it this makes it harder than it already is and I we already have a lot of people going for Varian with the way it is now right no well that's because they want they're going over the existing coverage so it's lot coverage right they're going over the existing 67% that's allowed now okay they want to go beyond that and that's that's the problem we're having it's just the runoff is intense 67% is rather generous isn't it what that's a lot of coverage a lot of coverage a lot of coverage the example two over here it had the BR in the back the two brandas in the front a huge pool deck and a large caban and a big on that why don't you explain the state requirements as far as drainage goes and how that affects because I mean the biggest the biggest concern here is drainage well the problem the true problem we have is that this the state regs on the drainage don't kick in until you have either 10,000 square fet of new impervious okay or you impact an acre of disturbance small lot not kick very few of them I mean we've had one one in town in the last 10 years that was big enough where he was over 10,000 ft yeah okay so he had to do the the state reg over the infiltration but we make him do infiltration now you know if you're over if you cannot discharge to an adjoining property so they have to put infiltration in we're trying to reduce that CU some of these guys are starting to back up and say I can't put the the amount of impervious you know the infiltration system is big enough to support the impervious so I so well you're looking at the wrong you got to reduce your impervious so that your infiltration system works yeah and that's not what they want to hear so I remembered what I was going to say but it not specifically on that so you've changed the 75 buildable to 45 total and you explained to me that on a 10,000 lot the 75 buildable would have been 6750 and the now 45% is 5,000 okay well we're we're talking apples and origes on a 10,000 foot lot right what was permitted was 90% of buildable okay and that would have been 6750 right okay on a large on the larger Lots it's 75% of buildable which is about 56 57% and we're bringing it down to 45 so that's we're bring it down to 45 yeah so net net the one above that we're taking building from 25 buildable to 25 total yeah so do the math for me cuz I'm not that good what originally the build the maximum lot of pick a number above the 10,000 okay so the total counting the building is impervious mhm you had 95% technically correct of the buildable lot that would be able to be covered no on which one's that now well I'm looking here so I got building was 20 and impervious was 75 yeah so you had 95% of the lot that could be C no no no cuz the impervious includes the building thank you okay that's all right very good the building's impervious that's why I was asking my col okay very good thank you yeah and you're recommending it 10,000 and Below be changed be be increased be higher and that's what you guys have to decide really what you want to do 65% would be basically equivalent to what's permitted now 50% would be a reduction of about on a 10,000 ft lot 1,700 sare ft and that's primarily want mass in parts of both yeah so Jim I have most vote Cs and so the big issue is the zoning board probably more zoning board than planning board what do you foresee in the future as are we going to see a huge increase in applications to the zoning board because of this or are we going to make it so that there is some solution but we're trying to accomplish our goal yeah the one problem with with something like this is like R for Zone you're looking at a 10,000 ft lot the reality is in the r 4 Zone you have a lot of lots that are less than 10,000 square ft you have some that are as small as 6,000 sare ft in an R4 Zone in the R4 Zone because you had those old Star Ledger Lots at 10,000 yeah you or a thousand thousand thousand and so on and they were all Consolidated okay so some places they were Consolidated to 10,000 square ft some some they're only 6,000 sare ft yeah so if you have a uh 50% impervious coverage for 6,000 ft lot then you're talking about maybe a, 1500t house and 1500 ft of impervious yeah or of other additional impervious so you know and it puts the restrictions on those smaller lots and that's where we're seeing most of the variances for impervious is on the smaller Lots I mean ultimately people want to put a deck on they want to you know maybe have a porch things like that I have no issue with that U but um I I guess that's that's the concern it's the bigger Lots don't seem to be the problem no no it's the smaller Lots it's the smaller Lots which we have a lot of you know the whole section of lot of mass over curse there so is your con I'm going to rephrase that is the concern the amount of work that I don't want to overburden the zoning board because and the zoning board is overwhelmed as it is now so you think this will help it or hurt it I think if we don't go up to 65 it's going to hurt it time it will probably hurt it probably will hurt it if you don't go up PR to 60 or 65 and if we went to 65 if you went to 65 you would have fewer applications before the zoning board for impervious coverage before excuse me so before they are the number today or before if we changed it if you changed it down to 50 correct that makes sense would we have more or less than we have today if we changed it to 65 probably about the same like a steady state probably that's what yeah yeah yeah but what what is in black and white is going to win to increase right the workload right so is there a grandfather clause in here like you know hey uh I inherited this property type of thing well yes and no I mean there's if if you're zoned into uh non-conformity you're a pre-existing non-conforming use or condition now there's two issues to that the first is by law you become pre-existing non-conforming however there's a provision in the land use law that says if that happens to you you have to get a certificate of non-conformity to do that within one year you have to go to the administrative officer which would would be I guess your new uh planning administrator and prove to them that you are pre-existing non-conforming you were just zoned into non-conformity which most people have no idea whether not unless your realtor tells you that you're be yeah but you have one year to do that yeah why wouldn't we just do it automatic what why wouldn't we just generate that automtic because no you don't know do you know what percentage coverage is on your property I do only because I have Varian that's right exactly but if if other people I don't know what it is on my property and I'm sure I'm conforming but I don't know what it is so they'd have to look at every survey and most people don't understand zoning to begin with so you have one year after that date which date to get the date that the ordinance has changed to get your certificate of non-conformity from the administrative officer after that you have to go to the zoning board and have an application to the zoning board to get that certificate of non-conformity and that takes costs you money and it costs the zoning board time and I'm that's one of the things that my daughter and I are looking at trying to meet with some of the state legislators to get that requirement changed because that goes back if you had a house in 1950 that was made non-conforming and you didn't get a certificate of non-conformity which didn't exist then your beef you you have to go to a board to prove that your house was made was pre-existing non-conforming and nobody has the records for that so so it's there's a whole series of problems with that whole thing that whole situation but but the the real thing is that if you don't do it within a year you have to go to the zoning board that puts pressures on the residents and pressures on the zoning board I mean ultimately my goal is to increase the impervious coverage which was our plan I think all along but to make this as painless decrease but to make this as painless for the administrative end because we don't want to overburden what's already overburden that just that would I don't want to create a problem yeah you know that's to me that's my concern is creating a a non-conforming situation like most of the Big Lots out in Wayside don't have anywhere near 45% of the lot being covered yeah and uh and when you get into the smaller Lots especially the the R5 or the small Lots in the r R4 Zone that are less than 10,000 then there's issues with non-conformity and anything they want to do they wind up having to come to the zoning board but if it goes to 65 they're not non-conforming that's correct but if they most if they're conforming now they won't be not conforming later yeah I know it's a tough question but what percentage of people do you think might be affected by I mean obviously everybody's going to be affected by this but what percentage of those smaller R5 you know those tight places you know the I and it's a wild guess you know like maybe 20% I but that's that's just a wild guess so 20 affected and then if we took it to the next step how many of the 20 are going to need to do Improvement or want to do improvements yeah that's but now you're talking and it depends upon the economy right depends upon a lot of different things and when they sell and somebody else wants to do it depends upon what's what social class is going to come in and buy those homes what do they want to do with them I think that's your biggest impact it's not the current owner it's the future owner yeah it's future owner because the current owner obviously if they wanted they would have done it the guy that has the vision he come in and put a nice little addition on the back of this put a pool on and he's not going to be allowed to do that especially with with the older homes and but he can still come in kind of want to make sure you know if you pass that regulation you kind of want to discourage the passing of those ordinances you only want to give him up for True hardships like the guy that has a 6,000 foot lot of tiny little house he wants to put a dish enough to put a third bedroom or fourth bedroom on that's a hardship but a guy that has a four-bedroom 5,000 ft house and wants to put a caban out there yeah that's that's a big different yeah but that that's really the impact that you're looking at is it's the future that's right I got one more question I'm full of questions tonight what are the other townships in the area what is their uh status with this as far as what they permit yeah it's all over the place and you know I don't know specifically in each town I work in a lot of them yeah and so I I you know I run into it but it's comparable I think to what we're propos mean I'm curious what's what is titon Falls doing what is what is Neptune doing what's Oceanport doing yeah and it varies by Zone again the bigger lots have lower requirements you probably have a better handle like on T on Neptune than I do yeah most of them are 35 40% and the ordinances they it should they have sliding ordinances for like a new development they make them developer who's putting in a major sub and come in at 35% and then if you're a homeowner you're can go up to 45% so they have that built in for a future homeowner but most of them around 35 to 40 yeah regardless of the lot size really yeah some of them have a little kicker for like a little 5,000 square foot yeah the smaller Lots generally have the higher impervious coverage requirement yeah as I said I'm okay with that you know to make it right this wasn't going to get put on today anyway no this was just for discussion I can tell you one of the things that I've been seeing a problem with these um because of the economy and the price of homes people can't afford that house on a 10 ,000 foot lot but they want that house on a 7,000 lot yeah that's right is increasing the coverage because now you're promoting that instead of saying hey let's go and make a guy buy a house that has a proper size I can afford a 7,000 foot lot and put the coverage out there and that's what's hurting us on an improvement point of view because all of our infrastructure can't handle all that flow agree agree so that's that's kind of the other caveat yeah yeah there so I'm sorry there's always two sides of looking at it you're saying by doing this that's going to What's happen or by not doing it that's what's happening no no that's what yeah that's what's going to be encouraged is if you change these coverages the guy well no if you leave irregardless it doesn't have a what we're doing doesn't matter to this what I'm saying is that we're seeing guys that can't afford a 10,000 ft lot are buying a 7,000 ft lot regardless of the coverage and then coming in asking for to put on a fourth bedroom but if we do this it's just a bigger variance he needs he doesn't people don't care about variances and that's what we got to kind of the boards have to realize what do is is narrow that down because you don't want a house that's supposed to be on a 10,000 foot lot now randomly being given out on a 7,000 which is true so that that's kind of where it's been being driven this is all for a future buyer that's what we're seeing this none of these houses that are in for the variances in front of the boards are existing homes these are all repurchased either KN sometimes re and being totally rebuilt that's true so not really impacting the current existing population so in summary I'm just speak for myself I'm good with the change for the above R4 or 10,000 I'm good with the reduction or increase for 10,000 but you said something that I thought was interesting that I'd love to get in here for new developments to get it to 35 we don't have too many big we can do that the other thing is while while towns do that it's not legal it's the the M landi law says you have to have the zoning standards have to be consistent within each zone for each use so you can't say if it's a new house you have to be 35 25% and a existing house you can increase it to 45% you legally you can't do that what wound up being the coverage in uh in a Rolling Meadows in a Cedar Village on those lots percentage wise they were high though right they probably started at about 35 % oh they it's got to be higher than that though for the property they they've been coming in for variances they get the lot like a lot of them have tried to increase the size of their patios and we've been seeing not a lot number 10% of the Lots in there are looking to increase their P from a 10 but they're not they're not going over impervious they're going over the rear setbacks to the wetlands going coverage there there not too many but it's just an impervious and I had sat down with the inced village board and I said cuz they were saying what's the concern I said so if you let all everybody in here the number of units you have go from a 10x10 to a 10x2 deck without requiring any kind of drainage plan you just increase your impervious acres by 100 by one acre of new impervious surface in your development M and you're complaining you have runoff problems now right and that's just go put a 1acre parking lot out there and it's coming right down the hill at you so that's kind of what we have to deal with we've got to then the residents are kind of getting in tune with this we've got a lot of infiltration going on everybody's okay with it we still have some people that are trying to put a lot more than they can fit in the infiltration systems don't work and they don't understand that yet but that's that's kind of what we're dealing with to get somewhat off the Sidetrack there we have a bond for that so they would eventually have to make it work or no no no these are the these are just the application that come into the building department for a building permit and when anything over 200 sare ft we I review for a grading plan and they are not allowed to run that runoff to a neighborhood either has to go to the street correct because we allow the coverage so we have to let it go to the street or they have to put infiltration in but my point so if the if the board or you says they're going to put infiltration in they have to issue a bond no there's no bond it's just they don't get a permit to build anything unless we I approve it but after it's approved and built after it's approved don't they have to put a bond up for the Imp so they can they can get it approved they can have it above whatever it needs to be they can put an infiltration system in and we'll give them the co after if it's not working no no it's working we we inspected and it I'm sorry I thought you said it's not working okay okay I thought in your example it wasn't working okay no I I I was saying things weren't work maybe I maybe I don't remember when I said it wasn't working but I think it probably the fact that certain systems weren't working say a guy wants to put in like I have one right now the guy has a very B low perk rate and he's trying to put in a lot of impervious and the infiltration system does not work because the water table doesn't the soils doesn't allow percolation so that that's where it would fail and what happens there he's probably not going to be able to do what he wants to do prior to issuing the permit no at all he's not we're not going to give him a permit that's what I mean so you decided that be great got okay thank you you'll be hearing from I'm sure Dave has her I think he's called the mayor too but see that's what people don't understand because if that system fails who's it going to the other three people down stream of them and you just triple who you're going to hear from you know CU then I I asked the guy today on the phone he's yelling at me I said what do you want me to approve something that doesn't work and that's what he's looking for FL out your neighbors yeah that's why I said you need for his system to work he actually needs an easement from his neighbor and he says that's ridiculous I said but that's who space you're using underground because your soils are poor but that's that's what we're fighting with with the impervious out there it's it's it's become a neighbor to neighbor thing and I'm we're trying to keep us the town out of that fight and by us putting these infiltration systems in it's it's working so that's kind of why you know this this will help a lot because you reduce the coverage you reduce the amount of infiltration you're going to have because there's not as much runoff so that will help anyone else I just comment you know pushing it out into the street doesn't help that much either because it just yeah it doesn't impact the two or three neighbors right next door but that goes and pushes it down Downstream sir can you state no that's that's of OEM that's why I said in the beginning it's because our current coverage allows them to do this and we can't deny them for a coverage thing because they're under the coverage so we have instead of pushing it to a neighbor I let them go to the street this will solve that problem we they won't be pushing it to the street because they won't be able to build it anymore or there'll be a lot less which is what we're looking for it's just it's it's overpowering what are your thoughts on the R4 between the 50 and the 65% I would like to look at an examp Le you know do a lot and show you from the two difference between the two because when you look at when you're talking percentages it's very tough to put a picture on it when you put on the plan a guy this is a size house he can get this is a size pool the caban and the deck he can do you go wow that's quite a bit on a 75000 7500 foot lot at 50% and look at what the 50% and 67% is I'll do those for each one of these things for the next meeting for you Greg if you do that then we can have this done on the agenda for the February meeting I think that would be realization truly for being fair or not fair right cuz when you're talking a guy wants to put a 5,000 foot house on a 7,000 foot lot when he wants to cool in aand it's kind of you know what are you looking at but yeah I'll I'll do that real quick for you I'm just they're just going to be regularly Square lots that are that size I'm not going to make IR regular size Lots yeah and you can be in touch with me on that we can go back and forth so you you will both this will be done by the 25th meeting and then we can discuss it finally and then it'll be on the agenda for the February 8th meeting for the introduction and then we'll vote on it at the end of we'll try to get them in your packets a couple days before so you're not see him the first time here perfect yeah that'll be good anything else okay great thank you Jim okay appreciate it do you need me for anything else then or you're you're welcome to stay around yeah we have some exciting how's your hand all better what it's getting better yeah this hand got a lot better it wasn't operated on wired up yeah we were somewhere else at um Greg yeah yeah yeah okay we have Greg blash our Township engineer to go over our facilities go ahead Greg okay uh first item the 2020 Road program we're closing out the DOT the 2021 program we're closing out with the dot 2022 um we're completing most of the concrete work is done the paving is going to be done as we talked about before in the spring for the remaining roads which your Roosevelt Turner Walnut and then we'll be done with that one uh 23 program we're going to be meeting with the residents on February 6th for their concrete assessments last time remember last two times because of Co we started just sending letters and we're finding that doesn't really work as well CU people can claim they never got their letter we have to set that meeting up with wanasa Point Road also yeah let's get I don't know who's sending that notification out there but we have to have a meeting with the residents I ran into a couple of uh residents last week I told them we were we had discussed this and we were pushing it off until after the holidays so we're set so if we could get some sort of letter out to one master Point Road y go we'll you what night is a video you're available for something like that okay just so everybody knows we're meeting with W Massa Point Road because they have a cement Road there's been a little bit of dissension between some of the residents wanting to keep cement or which is extremely costly um or going into Madam so we're we're going to meet with them we're going to see you know what they potentially want to do uh offer him a few options and then uh make a decision on there because that Road's never been done right can may I ask can you send us a copy of the proposed 23 Road program streets 24 sorry 24 23 23 I thought I already done it but I'll send them to you yeah thank you no problem okay so we we're meeting with the residents February 6th for their concrete assessments and then a couple weeks after that we'll get that out the bid so we can bids received probably in March for that for a spring start on the 23 so that'll be in good shape uh 24 program we've got we received the grant for 157,000 for popular Road Phase 1 which I felt was extremely low since we asked for like $550,000 so we might have to maybe reach out to the VIN on that one on that or margin yes how much did we get we got 157,000 we asked for 552 da you usually they give us half of asking we're like 250 Ocean's been regularly getting about 250 to 300 range okay for some reason I don't know why they we 550 we knew we weren't going to get that but we do the whole Road okay and they gave us a reduced all right we can we can reach out see if there's uhal funding the only thing I can think of may have some to do it they gave us that interim money to do the deal sidewalk remember that was an unadvertised money that we got the $100,000 to do that sidewalk so that could have something to do with it uh next one uh kepwell we are going to be applying to the uh County for a cdbg grant to do the bathrooms there that'll be coming up with a cdbg grants usually in the summertime with a fall um award so that that means the bathrooms will probably be around for spring of 2025 kept well bathroom kep well prop yeah the property we're going I knock the house down oh it's like we're not fixing the bathrooms inside it's like I thought we said no we wanted to knock it out with bathrooms we're going to see if the county will pay us all right that's the project then okay yeah okay obviously we probably won't knock the house down until that point but we can discuss that too Michael might I don't know there really is no maintenance cost to a closed house so we'll see about that but um next one was we're waiting for the permit for the sidewalk we still haven't got that we had a little problem with the payment on that one but we finally got that straightened out with them so we'll be doing that sidewalk Crossing on whale Pond remember that stream crossing the first one to go by that guard rail the second one is a d permit but the first one should be done in the springtime uh next one is 1,1 wipco have four phases to this first one is the main building um we've got all the structural problems resolved about two weeks ago the all the electrical mechanical work is being installed now the only negative to it is is the equipment that the actual the air handlers have been not going to be delivered until February 28th the original time for delivery was December 20 or 4th or something like that they've moved that to December February 28th so the building probably will not be operational until April end of April but they're we're going to have all the other duck work in all the interior work is going to be done it's just the only thing we have to do is connect the air handl to the outside to the the pipe so it won't be too bad uh the next section is um the roof uh that's complete that was one of the phases of the four we have a new roof on the building now so it doesn't leak uh next one was the golf simulators themselves we're rebidding that it's out the advertisement now it'll be rebid we're getting bids in the 31st of January and we will award that at the febru 8 council meeting that's that one the next one is phase four which was the lighting and the parking lot improvements uh with all the changes not all the couple of change we had with the interior I got to talk to Ricky to see what funding we have left and what the length of the extent of the improvements will be to the lighting in the park so I'll let you I'll probably give you that information next week okay uh the next one is s the the ponds we're kind of at EST stalemate with the ponds um we're done with what we need to be done uh we met with the county and the county informed us that they're not going to do it for free which we had always intended they would give us you know the dredging for free and we would just have to pay for their Manpower operating the Machinery they suggested we go out and get a price and they would comparably beat that price I went out and got a price for to do the just Terrace Pond is $750,000 to build the road excavated all and pile it up and then move it up to the top of the hill so now we're going to take that number go back to the count but it's like that's nowhere near within the budget we were looking at to it's not free it's way more than free it's way yeah but the county in the past has always let us use the Mosquito Control Commission to do the drudging yeah the med we would always pay for the stone that yeah it was yeah it was a little so that in turn puts us you know that means Terrace Pond Fan's Pond and Snell's Pond is all on hold until we figure this out so there's a couple of is being tossed around I guess we maybe next couple meetings we can bring that up but I don't think we've really solidified any direction yet so next meeting maybe I'll have a little more information on that one uh next one the 1515 Logan we're applying for our flood Hazard area permit once we get that we're done ready to go out the bid and we're talking about um different methods of how we're going to sell that that'll also probably be discussed next next meeting or so when we figure out the the method this meeting this mean you're going to talk about it so that'll be later re you're coming back um next one was the storm order control orance which is was covered by Jim tonight with the 40 minute the percentage of coverage um next one was just the crosswalk on Maple be part of the road program uh South Lincoln and Mammoth Road I still have not heard from the county with their design on that uh I got a call at a County engineer he did that back to me today so I'll reach out to him again to see where that is because if he comes up with the design we can put that in the road program if he gives me the you know locations of everything I obviously needs to be approved by you guys first but we'll bring that in and once that's all worked out and you like it then we can throw that in the Pro program next one uh deal Road sidewalks that's uh we're going to bid that end January we'll get the war de in February we've already met with the neighbors there but that's going along well the um Trail between roller Road and sunset uh that was just approved by dot to go out the bid so we'll be going out the bid with that in late January also deal Road you want to talk about too the meeting we had um deal road yeah yeah one of the things we had met one of the talked to several topics with do one of the things we're looking to do is the going westbound on Deal road towards 35 right now currently that's by ocean common there um we have a left turn lane a straight through Lane and a right turn lane one of the signages that isn't up yet that's going to happen is a right turn is supposed to actually go through the mall that's the doot slip Road through the mall to get to 35 North so we've actually met with when we talk to do we want them to resign that intersection because we're having a stacking problem going straight and left that we're going to resign the lanes that are going across the road we're going to have two straight Lanes so you're can to have a left turn a straight Lane a straight and a right so the right lane will be also a straight through and they'll merge on the far side the second part of that we're going to go to Dot and look because um the developer who just bought the other side of the road has given us the approval to widen the road on that side a little bit so we're going to go to Dot and get a little widening of the curve over there for that merge that's now going to occur on the west side of 35 so it's a little more convenient doesn't back up into the road it'll carry it further into the roadway past the Santander Bank there and get it uh Welling before the merge starts backing up and the nice thing was we had a meeting with Frank Luna from uh jcpnl yesterday and we you know both of us noticed where the poles are which need to be moved back right yeah so we're he we're going to be able to put the permit in uh so that it bypasses the four to six month thing so that we can get this done quicker than you know waiting and you know be a road Improvement project yeah I think if you don't extend that merge you're going to have what you had before which was just which was just always em yeah taking your life we started discussion back in July when we met with the do these were some of the um ideas that we came up with with do it was quite some time for them to get back to us with a follow-up meeting we finally had the follow-up meeting with them um and then we're going to have another one about the other ideas and issues that we have on Highway 35 and but they were receptive to us wiing that road there so that'll be a big benefit any thoughts about putting some like when you're on the interstate you see those big you know painting you know paint the arrows on the road in addition to the signage so I'm coming down I'm coming West but we can put the arrows it would be nice because it's unfortunately you know people are like oh oh I got to get over here and it's a hard left that's me every day they know I know they know trust me every day signing second right Lan a straight through also cuz you have a lot of people some do know most know but some don't they actually have to wander up there try to merge in that really confuses Str or it just bums you out you get upset and then you're like oh great I'm following the rules and this guy just the dash lines could be eliminated where you make the first turn because it sort of that creates a visual barrier when you're when I'm driving down I first few times I did it I looked at it and said well that's I'm not supposed to go over there and then realized after I went for a little while I was so you're talking on the east side 35 yeah on this side yeah to get that was it wi to go straight Lane well that'll kind of disappear with both of them being straight through now so most people will stay in that first Lane be fine figure when they get up there and it's not stacked they'll go into the middle Lane okay but there's two signs there that know there one right at the widening that shows there's three lanes and then there's one halfway up that there's four yeah currently the other problem we're doing as much as we can to notify people the people coming out of the plaza they can get trapped over this because then they can't get out or they're especially you got to get to the left you want to make a left you've got to you know go over three lanes of traffic yes there is a traffic light but if it's backed up you kind of up yeah nobody's going to do that if they see the stacking L is long there you're not going to go down the light just to get in the left turn going to nose out so yeah but did it's there's a lot of tra there I mean obviously Millers is a lot more popular than they even probably thought it was going to be at this time year summertime everybody knew going to be crowed but this time of year it's still pack I saw a guy going eastbound there right opposite the exit only onto deal Road madebe U-turn right opposite that today I don't think it's Miller that's going to be it's turning point opens up they're going to be pretty busy too lious you got some got some good stuff coming in there they don't compete for the same time that's that's the only Advantage right you're right you're right I saw the crosswalks on pop up I saw the signage that looks good yeah the only thing we're going to do there when we do the light I'm we're going to I've already talked to U New Jersey um to P to jcpnl I got it right we I want to increase the wattage of the lights there because you get some dark not you know overcast nights of the there's no moon it's tough to see that that crosswalk okay any questions for Greg sure um have we looked at camer that way have we looked at um the lighting at Human Services well we talked about that did we well not me you and I but with the people down the problem is to give additional Lighting in there you have to run a new service in so the service the service is extremely expensive to run a new new 400 damp service in there so the service we ran for the trees wouldn't help I me I don't have any idea that wouldn't power what we need to power in there that was the same issue we had with the ice rank they wanted to put in we talked to Frank yesterday about service if we wanted to do that ice rank and the number that we had gotten seems to be pretty close about 150,000 so that's why just to improve the lighting in that well you have to bring an extra service because there get the power demand and if you're going to do it you may as well do it to feed the future and that would that's how much it would be yeah it's expensive they can have a flashlight when you build your new town hall yeah there you go that's yeah that would be the ideal time to upgrade a service there you that you told me about that you told me any this may be Dave too any movement on the signs on West Park by the J handle nothing out of our hands waiting on County and state which signs are you talking about no leftand turn so going West on West Park no left-and turn into The BJs Into The BJs yeah yeah which has been down for 14 months and uh the going east on West Park prior to be J's a sign that says 35 South so you don't have to go all the way to the light missing for a so it's like somebody took it it fell down either a plow hit it or somebody ran and why do we need permission from the county to replace it it's the county county Ro State Room well the the only choice would be we have put it welcome the government 14 months I've been da my whole life I don't we that to get a per from the county to put it up if we want to put it up or ask them to put it up and the dot is involved with that cuz that's you know signing their Square Wheels on the Bus that's why that's a tough one wow just it's a sign yeah it's a sign that was there already that would help that was there already both sides were there already wow all right um did this one sorry hold on kids thinking about it you did that one don't we have like a a voting sign that we can repurpose how about taking a shot uh any updates on the light on deal popler and roller the single the sing Light left hand turn arrows he hasn't come back to us at all we've asked him I asked him several times I think he's having so much trouble with his contractor out there I don't think he's going to push to get the light done CU as you know contractor is going extremely slow MH first he couldn't get the permit because he screwed up the wall run a detention base and once they got that worked out he bued the wall real quick and he's been there I would say 30% of the time their contractor there today I'm waiting for them to finish like they they just don't seem to have a committed get that I'm going to ask about bike Lan go ahead bike Lings I had a um complaint love them concerned about the safety on Mammoth Road because it encroaches actually on the driving lane if you actually literally go by the lane that's where it's supposed to be because the the the the standard requires it to be a minimum of 5T off the face of the curb the center line of that Shero because the the driver has to realize that his right tires are running over that sherrow because the bike has the right to be out there with him but if he does that he's in the other lane no no he's not supposed to move he just has to slow down and pass the bike you know when when time locks he's not supposed to move over and get out of the bikes way they just have to regulate so it's kind of a work together thing but there's not enough room to have a dedicated bike lane out of the county wouldn't give us like we have on some of the other roads like Logan yeah that road is was specifically mentioned that's pretty easy because you know you have a dedicated bike L A car is not allowed in there and it's it's they're separate so it has to be 5T off the curb line that's required yeah because if it was if we tuck these up next to that then that driver would say your chery's over there you're supposed to be over there riding on that and stay over there and the car is not supposed to be in here but the bike wouldn't be able to come out and so that's why it's it's not wide enough for that so you were going to draft a letter that we were going to post y still going to going thank you g or GNA saw that on my notes today that I forgot to do that I'll I'll do that with Tracy put it in next week for the I got last one is uh I'm going to throw it out at you it's it's probably has something to do with you where are we with the dog park why is that a joke why is County engineering is they're doing engineer they're going to redo it's an illusion move it where where it's a little more um where it should it's wide open space I don't understand what's taking so long I thought we just put up I mean really were you just not here 5 minutes ago when he mentioned government yeah Square they got to wait it's after it's after the signs after after the that's great be what I was thinking kiding aside I'm sorry so it's in the county Engineers hands to design to put the they're doing everything they're yeah they're they got the spot we discussed they've agreed with that so they're designing that you're supposed to be handling the county stuff I handle the I wrote two notes I got Rob where's the dog park got it let's go rob on it Ross where where's it supposed to be by the tennis center it's in by the spring they to move from there I'm good thank you da Greg okay anybody else for Greg myself Kelly oh hold on wait just let me get the csil first uh Dave anything else Kelly I have nothing okay yes sir kep well while you have the heavy machinery I wonder if you could hold the thought tearing building down um the basement flooor if you have your feet on the concrete plus or minus that's the topographic level you know if you just did a metal picture of your feet going out to the north that makes a large area of land that's the 94t topographic level is your feet on the concrete on the basement floor and the 94 topographic gives you substantial amount of land out there if you have the heavy machinery out there anyway hold the thought of doing the right and having meaningful amount of land out in that Park you may be able to make it work you may not be able to make it work but that place is a lot more flat than you realize but you're saying to excavate the lawn to the north of the building at the elevation of the basement floor well move the top soil to a a save pit for the top three or four inches of top soil because you you can't do anything with top soil and then the structural soil do the right thing as far as smooth out the elevations you don't have to go crazy but if you just smooth it out there's a lot of land out there I'll look it I mean I don't I don't I'm not that familiar with the tobo but I know it does go downhill pretty good no no no no no that's an illusion if you go to the 94 ft which is your feet are on the concrete in the basement you're already four to 5 ft down down below where you think you are and that is a very good quality topographic consideration may not work out but hold that thought as a potentiality okay I I'll look at it because I I would think that's going to require me to excavate a lot of material yes it is but if you're going to do something do something for the next 50 years and you've got the heavy machinery out there anyway during the excavation you have to tear out all the concrete block walls anyway during the the Decon construction so just hold that thought the topography Works to have quality space out there well the problem I have with it though is if we don't have a designated use for that and it cost to do all that the County's not going to pay for it what is the County's involvement with tearing down the building we're going to ask them to give us the funding to tear down the building and put a bathroom there that's a separate issue from planning for the next 50 years the next 50 years you got some quality space there and you are not mentally picturing utilizing that quality space for the next 50 years which has a separate issue from a simple budget line associated with a bathroom so what do you want to put there you want to just put like a soccer field you want to put a field what do you want to put there you've got the land and there's very little dirt that has to be moved do the right thing so you just want land bare land you isn't Park as long as you have the land anywh not a lot of exp it's just we're going to you know SL it off so the drains in the so you know what once we it comes down we can take a look at it and see see if that's you just walked the property with the mental picture that it is a lot more flat than you realize it really is a lot more flat one corner that one corner is really it's like the north side of the house yeah but yeah that area of the house anyone else for Greg all right our professionals can high tail it out oh thank you than you except for except for you young man uh let's get our public out here let's start over on this side I'll go to my right yes sir sir State the name and address for the record yes sir we'll see you nobody else can leave because we won't have a profession 6 o00 yeah I'm leaving with the professionals wait a I can't leave yeah I was thinking I was getting out of here I didn't realize he was going man you're a professional but we don't mind I paid for this thing tonight I can't go yes sir go ahead name is morya and my son R um for Kramer Court uh I will be at 12 Road as of Tuesday okay right congratulations issue really is with the proposed pedestrian bridge from Brook side over to CR Court okay we're opposed to it and uh uh we have a whole bunch of reasons why we are opposed to it uh number one uh safety we're quiet neighborhood and uh we don't feel we need in order to save a handful of people 10 minutes worth of walking to shore all right um we were going to put this out there but we didn't feel that uh the public should be involved in it and uh fig we could handle it in a more appropriate way um some of the other people that was going to be here one one of them is Florida one is sick one is basketball practice they're all concerned neighbors and um we have a couple of maps to show you what what is and isn't you want to hand them out yeah yeah sure um six copies so I'm gonna defer you know a lot of this over to our attorney he's gonna answer whatever questions we have but this was we already they already voted on this in the planning board so well they heard it they heard it yes it's not voted on so this is a capital Improvement yes that that's I have multiple things that kind of go together for better and For Worse so the when um I I can kind of just kind of lay out I've done I did the um I did uh the drive to check the the route um there was I know the planning board took into consideration the safety of people going to Shore and that was the reasoning why this bridge is being put in this is obviously we're not going to use it the outside I yeah I I understand that but I think for the most part your foot traffic over that bridge is going to be minimal because it's really only going to be the community that's going to Megan David so it and I'm not gonna I'm not speaking on the planning board's behalf what I'm saying is it was being looked at as a safety issue for the community because we did have several people that were obviously for it so they needed the bridge for safety reasons that's you know why the planning board heard it and it you know was basically a capital Improvement I have uh just a couple questions we've been dealing with this issue for 10 years now when we were first approached by uh Mr s um there's no secrets there I think as to who's really pushing this um it was pushed we kindly said no when it was first proposed when they probably didn't have a clue of whether we would say yes or not um I know there was multiple there were multiple Alternatives some people somebody was going to let somebody go through a backyard along and then come down on the Kramer in a different spot um you know a lot of iterations of this um I can tell you from our experience and our understanding um no one's ever talked about safety I I frankly am not sure who put that out there there is a perfectly fine sidewalk coming up Mammoth Road around around those Wetlands uh as you approach uh Temple bethl um I know one point of safety was brought up about you know bikes going into this parking lot right um and how that was a safety concern yeah but if you look at the map the just big print out of the map this one uh the full page full page yeah so people coming up Mammoth Road which is right you know they they currently actually cut through Temple bethl that's my uncle's house is right here and then they go through the police station and no once they're on they go right through there right into the synagogue brige is affecting the people over here people coming from Grant are either going to go through there or come through here people on Sherman are going to come through the police station that bridge is not affecting who's going through the police station because anyone coming up Mammoth Road is already cutting through here right but we're to we're over here yes but I what I'm saying that is the only time I've ever heard about a safety issue being discussed with the bridge well if you're coming if you're coming from this section you have to go as you yeah show on the map you come down down and around the safety issue is down Mammoth Road here because it's a curve and there's blind spots sidewalk there's a sidewalk I get it but it was brought forth to them about safety I you know we're obious there's also an issue with the police were concerned with cutting through also but that's that's what I was no no I'm saying that there were I mean again they maybe that wasn't your neighborhood but the police were all concerned about people were cutting through still cut through quite a bit through the parking lot what I'm saying is that this affect the parking lot it it the flow of people where the bridge what the bridge is going to change is not affecting the people that are coming into the police station the the bridge is on one side of a shortcut that already exists but the bridg is ideally for the people on Brookside Elizabeth Street isn't that the people going to utilize to save about 7 Minutes of water yeah um it's quite Improvement to do there are trees that fall down fairly you frequently in a storm um and to be quite blunt I don't think it's a safety issue I think they thought of that I think it's a money issue for some people who own and rent homes on Brookside um the entirety of Kramer vineberg some people on Wenning other people in Crystal book don't want this other than someone who owns three and five prer Court who bought it just for this process um you know I just I don't think we've been heard as much as maybe the other side has been heard of um but I do have one question is what what is a capital Improvement defined us it's a project by the municipality okay for what purpose is it a public Improvement is it a it could I mean it's to it's I it's a say we qualify something as like a public Improvement I mean if you want the most technical it's the a municipality performing and Improvement so the municipality is paying for the bridge the municipality is writing the check for this bridge so the taxpayer money for Ocean Township is being used for a bridge to service 2030 homes I don't know that I would put it exactly like that is it taxpayer money is it who's paying for it if the municipality municip I don't know how many municipality is right so I'm paying for the bridge taxpayer sure I mean not privately funded then it's coming out of the budget yes they well I the the town is writing the check for it I don't know like Town gets the money from taxes yeah okay amongst amongst other places I'm saying like the town gets money from a whole bunch of places we're just discussing the CBG Grant C grants I mean there's a whole bunch of different areas that the town gets money from I guess but that that money if not being used for the bridge could be used for improving streets other light lighting in the neighborhood if I mean if you're asking whether or not there are uh money could be used for other things there's always you know there's never enough money to do everything exactly so my point is that you know there are plenty of people that are opposed to this that I think wouldn't warrant using money that could be used for other projects um so that's all I'm I'm trying to get at I mean I've been I've been told by Mr sacka himself and he's had every inkling and every talking to people about the bridge like it's his own personal project which I think it is talking about paying for it so and I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to make an accusation but you know over 10 years we were're talking with the former mayor Siciliano who didn't want to deal with this whatsoever and it was pushed off pushed off quite a bit um I just we got until I think to the planning board having seen this um there was we've been trying my dad has tried for years to get some transparency on the process and we're now kind of with our backs up against the wall haven't been able to really kind of speak our side kind of show that there are plenty of people that are opposed to this I'm sure more people could could be informed if you want to say it's being paid for by the town that I guess they would have the right to which is something we rather not do um I I was ready to send out a flyer to inform the township that this is a capital Improvement project that is being paid for by the town to service one synagogue and a group of people that go to the synagogue and we go there that live in and I didn't I didn't want to bring a on especially in today's time I didn't want to bring upon every anti-semitic person out of the woodwork to to basically say oh the town's bought by the Jewish Community here and they're going to do this project to serve people to to save 15 minutes the the municipality what we're charged with the governing body is to look out for the entire Township not just your community with all due I would this is a piece of of the budget you're it's a capital Improvement for the town it may only serve as 30 people there's plenty of projects that get done in in the municipality that you know everybody doesn't use we just had a park donated by the my and Terry Foundation up at kepwell and you know that Park may not get utilized by you know more than 20 30 people at a clip same thing I don't have kids that are going to go to that Park anymore but we're we're doing things in the municipality that we look at for the whole okay you guys got a piece Wayside got it everybody gets a small little piece of of it I understand it's it's frustrating re it's been 10 years of of a discussion and a battle but this Council I what I said on July 1st when we officially took office was that there were issues that were in the hopper that needed to go through and either get a yes or no now in this case this was the planning board this wasn't the coun what happens after the planning board I guess is your next what is their recourse after the planning board if they're in opposition what courses of action do they have at their disposal I mean it's this council's determination so but not today or I mean whenever it's put in the budget um and put it out the bid that that's I mean yeah it's a construction I mean that's that's essentially as my question was the it was put before the planning board right to approve it just it was it was the the the planning board under the the land use the planning board is informed of Capital Improvements capital projects we didn't vote on anything there there's not a there's a there's a this is what we're doing and uh if there is some commentary or not from the uh planning board they can comment I mean that's that's essentially it so you're in the right area say that this it's been decided or I'm trying to understand because we've been literally spent the last six years trying to get an understanding of the process we've been given different information about who decides it goes here it goes there it comes to this it's not it's being paid by this person it's not being paid it's being paid by the taxpayers I'm I'm not this is just coming out of frustration um of course and partly from nobody in this entirely so being that it's a capital Improvement and we do multiple like the mayor said so we're doing um some folks wanted some shade for the for the baseball during baseball season which only affects those folks that you know that was in last year's Capital so right now we're in budget season season so we will budget and program a budget for Capital that will come to this body line item by line item which one of the line items will be for this pedestrian bridge and the governing body here will have to approve it there will be a public meeting on the capital budget which is another time to come and speak if necessary but that's the process when is that what is the time frame for that we don't have time exact time frame but but is it like the February meetings or the march by law yeah we have to we have to introduce um our Municipal budget by March 29th we have to have an adoption by April 30th and then subsequent to that adoption then we go into the capital budget so it could be in May or June by the time so their window is February in opposition to this body no they they've got all the way up to we introduce it so it's all the way to May cuz uh the CFO doesn't like to present the capital budget until after we get through and what Forum would they use if they wanted to do something more publicly look yeah I mean this session the 5:00 time the five o' or the public or or the 7 o' or the budget meeting yeah budget meeting or if they really rather not take it out and and if you don't want to go that elaborate you could write me a letter with a bunch of signatures saying this is where we're at these are all the people opposed to it couple there a couple of things is another Shool that opened up on the other side a lot of people around there a lot of people are going to from you mean on the other side of the bridge on the other side of might help the other so that's good it'll help them go over the other side but just looking at Point our point of I thought I thought about it our point that you know that's that's just makes it less necessary and there's an alternate route that's is a little rough that uh so I think let let's cuz we have to I have to get through uh but what I want to do is I think what what our manager is saying get him signatures on a petition so that he can review it bring it back to us but my suggestion is this gets done relatively quick and it should be the people that are in that area no reason okay because it affects that area so if you could get petitions you can get signatures over to our manager this way he can bring it over to to the council and then we can discuss it okay again just I'm not trying to be that for people in the area but again does anybody who's a resident of the town have the right to object well Dave I mean it's they do but it would be more significant of course if you get the folks in that are living there where as close as it gets that's what I'm saying so I hope that would carry more weight I would hope that would carry more weight than somebody I think um if one of you if not both of you already got I had a letter with some yeah names on it cuz cuz that's when it was at the D yeah that was my uh my letter that I that expanded all right but anybody can comment on the budget I mean you know so I'm there might be somebody in Wayside that's saying we shouldn't spend money Paving roads in noers you know and that's perfectly within their right exactly so I'm just trying to get a an understanding of process bigger pict like um you're in the right body though public body got it right it took us a little little time to to figure that out but again I just the safety thing I understand Mammoth Road but I think there's rightfully so a safety issue with putting a bridge into a by culac through the wetlands it's an attractive nuisance potentially there are deer that run through there there are trees that fall down I lived there for 30 years he's lived there for 42 years 42 years you know we see what's in there when it rains floods animals you know so I think there are equally so there are and there's just the security of you know going on the shadow long drive is a more open Street there are more cars that'll come through even on Saturday there are more people out there so you know coming having a bridge from one neighborhood to our neighborhood and frankly they bought in the cue saac for the peace and quiet yeah um and that's being upended so to speak the privacy of having people walk through we personally will get in a car on Saturday and we don't need that judgment from people walking through um but that's I guess a minor minor issue but again the houses on Brookside yes they've gone up in value um over these last few years but every house has some people may view Kramer courts value going down if you have a bridge that one is all right like our manager said just get us you know get us a petition or something over there so he can review and then bring it back and with all the comments you just made so so we can take a lot of them are in that letter that I put thank you very much for I want to uh hold I got to get to the council first oh wait we got uh get I huh I mean Council I I still have to go but everyone else can go ahead of me just so we one question when it's to v s what's that when it's taken to a vote is a majority unanimous uh we don't have a vote on this included in the budget oh on the budget yeah terms of the actual it's a the pass the budget is a it's a super major I think it's 75% and is it correct to say that the council is so it's a super majority vote of the council yes for the budget well there'll be y okay um thank you very much Dave you got anything uh yeah Rob's not here but I thought that maybe we could convene a meeting of the historical committee the naming committee uh and I will follow up with Kelly goodbye guys take care um and maybe we can put something on the uh on the docket I think we were considering putting an inventory together of possible places to name and then maybe an inventory of some people that might be worthy I believe we do have to reach out to Paul Edon and whoever else we decided might might or not be on that committee but um yeah I thought it would be a good idea to get that ball rolling perfect especially with our 175th there you go just combine it with the 175th anniversary anything else Dave that's all I've got all right great thank you um Kelly uh just let me double check we already talked about the bike Lanes um Margie did resign so I saw that's coming up um yeah when you're on phone no I'm okay okay cool uh John and Kell I want to thank you on the 14th of December you voted on the shared service agreement for the accountant uh the planfield and the Bradley Beach you um you voted you U abstained and John voted against it and um it's just a reminder how expensive our um salaries and benefits could be and I thought I thank you for your consideration to minimize some of our costs when you against said on the 14th if Kelly just to just to correct that that shared service wouldn't have cost the town any money as a matter cost taxpayers in three different towns not our town would not Jim Jim please with the skewing of the facts the fact is that shared service agreement I didn't vote against it because it was going to cost us anything that's correct I voted against it due to time constraints that's why I voted against it not because it was going to cost the township any money that's false so go ahead next Point okay now Kelly if we look on the back page in the red there just as a mental picture how the GS salary ranges merge to an equivalency for the state of New Jersey all I want to point out is the um the chief sorry would be about $80,000 greater pension in health insurance than it would be if that was a GS I just wanted you to just remember I I don't know I don't know if the police department and the Department of Defense are is on the same GS schedule as the rest of the department but here is my point is there for comparability of how much we're paying people just remember in the back of your mind that there's some really expensive pension and benefit things that are in the state system that do not exist in the federal system just when you start allocating salaries just be cognizant and remember how things blend together and then again I'm done and I appreciate your appreciate your looking at these things thank you Jim all right motion to go in to close session oh no no wait oh you got something El got a couple things I got deer management thank you um you know we have to continue to make some a couple more decisions here um we know we're doing a hybrid situation so in in the management plan we have to tell them um in the location of joea Park in the golf course uh if a hunt is to occur how long would it take place okay so that's the question ask that question now now Dave time frame or like times during two months Time season I think it's yeah weeks it can't be I think it's like a week or two that's it I don't think the state hunts are very long you know it's I think I'd like to hear what that that that is yeah it's I think it's in the hey Dave can we check to see what the does with like you know their individual when they do their clearing of the fields and then um I think the expert will give us the time frame when it should be done cuz I guess there's a high time to to do that the second question he was looking for um he needed a final determination if we were going to use drop netting and utilization of the deer and your manager recommendation is no but it's your decision okay okay I need an answer cuz I got yeah cuz I can't I can't otherwise we'll never get this process what are the opt drop n drop netting and euthanasia versus what are the other options for no the other options is the hunt and then um we've got the U the non-lethal so but but part of the hunting is doing this drop netting and youthz so you know do we want to do that or not is it acceptable in this community I would say no no I'm going to know okay and and I kind of figure these things but I got to ask because it can't be Dave Brown's plan it's got to be the government bodies plan all right moving right along um be advised at on or about February 5th uh work will commence on Route 71 from Cedar Avenue to Route 35 uh by um Neptune Boulevard uh this will involve a pavement preservation chip seal along Route 71 from mile poost 9.96 to mile post 1678 both directions uh no American Disability uh Ada will be impacted or utilities impacted the contractors ashfold pavement systems and this projects being done by the state of New Jersey how long um they did not say they just say it's going to start on February 5th so yes so we'll be disrupted a little and I'm going to put that on the website so that the public is informed as well thank you um and two for close session so I am done all right okay motion to go and close session second second second roll call I I roll call Mayor napat here council member aera oh I'm so sorry council member Fisher I'm here Terry I'm here please stand for a pledge of the flag and remain standing as we say a silent prayer I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all please remain standing may be seated the notice requirements of the open public meetings act for this meeting have been satisfied and a copy of the annual notice was posted in the Asbury Park Press and the coaster posted in town hall and filed in the office of the municipal clerk on December 14th 2023 there are two emergency exits on the wall to my right that'll take you to the front of the building and another one to my left that'll take you to the rear parking lot please make sure all your cell phones are turned off as we begin the meeting I'd like to look down to councilwoman Terry and have Council comments anything I actually don't have anything thank you okay councilman Fisher to my left yes I'd like to congratulate our very own Dr Margie donlin on her getting sworn into the New Jersey assembly it's been a pleasure to serve with her but uh it's official so uh congratulations Margie uh I did um I did see something on the Internet every once in a while you find something that's worthwhile uh due to the fact that we're getting these insane amount of storms if the homeowner would be so kind as to maybe help out our DPW guys and maybe rake the leaves off of the storm drain so we could help with it we could facilitate some of that water getting into the storm instead of flooding out on the roads thought it was a good idea so I'm passing along it's all I've got thank you councilman David no mayor good good to go thank all systems go excellent Matt oh no Mr May thank you uh I'd like to uh just make a few comments here first of all I want to thank everybody who reached out to me before the holidays uh on the passing of my mother it was really nice to hear from so many people and it was really thoughtful um I'd also like to thank our OEM director our D commission the police department and of course our fire and first aid for the storms that we've had over the past few weeks we've had a tremendous amount of rain there's been very good coordination between our OEM director and the D commission chairman um I have to thank David Brown for coordinating a lot of this with me and it's been a uh I think we've had some positive things happen here uh we will continue that coordination with any weather events that come up I want to congratulate Chief Ed horn from the one massive fire department and chief Tommy Caruso they were both sworn in Tommy over at Oak curst Ed over at wanasa they were sworn in as Chiefs of the fire department uh thank you for your service it was a pleasure um to swear you guys in as you know there's a council vacancy we're seeking resumés right now deadline is next Friday the 19th um I want to thank Frank Luna for coming in to meet with David uh and myself yesterday we spoke about several initiatives that jcpnl is doing currently uh we're pretty excited on the fact that they're doing a major infrastructure up grade uh the cost actually what we're going to get over here in Ocean Township is approximately $31 million in in infrastructure updates so um pretty excited about that um we are going to be celebrating on uh February 21st our 175th anniversary this is a pretty auspicious occasion uh we've already started the planning process I want to thank councilwoman Terry down there she's already coordinated a couple of meetings for us we have our official kickoff on February 21st it'll be at the Turner Gallery details will come out and I will Echo those sentiments that councilman fiser said about former deputy mayor Dr Margie Don donlin our new assembly woman from Ocean Township Ocean Township continues to spurn out more and more talent in higher positions than ever imagined it goes way back before Dr donin became an assembly woman we had greats like John Vilano and of course the late great Senator Joe paa this just shows that what we have here in Ocean Township and our governing body we do nothing but the best and strive at what we do and to see Margie get sworn in Tuesday was really an honor it's quite an honor to see how you see an official change of government and so many new faces out there in government there were 27 people sworn in and I have to say Margie is probably really happy because there were more women than I could have ever imagined getting sworn in it was truly amazing so Tuesday was a great day congratulations Margie we wish you the best now we're going to look for some money okay all right um all matters listed under the consent agenda or considered routine by the township Council and will be enacted by one Motion in the form listed below there will be no separate discussion of these items if discussion is desired on any item that item will be considered separately the purpose of this public portion is to solely ask questions to understand resolutions that appear on the agenda and is not an occasion for a public hearing on an ordinance all questions not related to an item on the agenda should be asked during the public comments portion at the conclusion of the meeting if anyone has any questions on the consent agenda please stand up state your name and address for the microphone resolution yes is this operational yes okay than Jim Bay David Street uh resolution 2408 cash management plan and I'm wonder if I could entertain the concept of using a specific account of cash in Li of borrowing David this is the audit was posted this uh Tracy burkit posted the audit there is 31 m million in your cash accounts a random account which is no more special than any other is account number 2279 which has $5,595 in it there's nothing special about account it's just a account picked out of the air you are borrowing next year 12 million in long term and this is sort of how your borrowing is um ordinance ordinance ordinance ordinance ordinance in it it gives the specific this for a sidewalk this for this and $2 million for Bond anticipation notes the concept is instead of borrowing on top of the existing $23 million that you borrowed skip the borrowing and use account 2279 which is at Provident Bank I believe down on Mammoth Road put a notation in there that you have borrowed it just like you put these three borrowings that are the 23 you'd have a fourth notation that says I bought the 12 million for the sidewalks the trucks Etc you're not hiding it you're putting it right here on the borrowing statement and then you're not borrowing it four to 5% you're taking it out of the account that was getting you a quarter of a percent that's the theoretical concept for you to consider now I know you're not going to do it that's fine just be aware that you have $33 million in cash and you're still borrowing money just hold that thought you may not do it this period you may not do it next year but if things move from a 3% borrowing to an x% borrowing you may have a real motivation to change the way you borrow money noted D thank you thank you Jim and Jim I will speak to the CFO I will ask that question not necessarily for now but including Margie going to Trenton mhm there's $80 billion in misallocated Fs in Trent where the right hand is getting a tenth of a percent in a account and the left hand is borrowing money at 5% okay next Point thing takes place in Tren all right the next one is ordinance no ordinance not not yet that'll be up next resolution resolutions only anyone else wishing to be heard seeing hear none do I have on since not ordinances on adopting a temporary budget and I'm wondering if you could move $1.5 million out of the general budget and move it into the golf [Applause] utility and here is the [Music] mathematics thank you so regarding the resolution 24019 they are putting in the colonial Terrace Golf Utility oping Fund and I'm wondering if you can move an additional $1.5 million out of the general fund into the golf utility because you have borrowed that money you're just not allocating the bookkeeping into the golf utility J so it's a request for you to transfer so that the golf utility actually pays for the bonded expenses that it has for the cost of this building Jim with all due respect where are you coming up3 million for the golf $850,000 to buy it uh-uh that wasn't correct I'm pretty sure it was 650 pencil in the note potentially 850,000 to buy it there was about $600,000 to do the remediation that took from 9,000 ft building to the 4,000 ft building that it is now that was 1.5 million in addition to that is the 1.7 million that you bonded to do the current construction and you did you actually did bond for that so there's no reason to do a transfer that that this this is why we need Ricky here so from now on on Thursday night if we could have them down here during the public session that would be good no no no well no I honestly Jim I would rather have this I would rather have the CFO down here who actually knows the numbers and then at least he can explain it because the bottom line is if you could plus up bottom line is I'm not going to respond because I don't know the numbers and I want to hear that from the CFO because these are in conflict with what I know so so you have a the concept here to kick around to slightly modify the golf utility if is appro yeah I like I said Jim I don't have the numbers in front of me so I really don't want to get in that conversation appreciate your time that's it resolutions thank you sir anyone else wishing to be heard on resolutions no okay seeing here none do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda I make a mo a motion to approve the consent agenda second I'll second roll call fer yes Terry yes San yes vouchers in the amount of 8,886 85911 motion to approve I'll make a motion to approve the vouchers second second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes nepan yes uh ordinance is up for adoption ordinance 2447 in ordinance amending chapter 2 of the revised General ordinances of the township of ocean 1965 entitled Administration subsection 2-15 awarding of professional contracts to certain political election campaign contributors prohibited repealed in its entirety do I have a motion to open public comment on ordinance 2447 I'd like to make a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 2447 second I'll second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes nepan yes yes sir hi Jim Bay David Street uh the New Jersey Sierra Club I'm the treasur of the New Jersey Sierra Club in uh the 11th 13th district and they asked me to take a look at this property I walked this property a week ago wait a minute wrong wrong wrong ordinance 24 it's not the acceptance of real property no no no 2447 first one pay to play repal yep anyone else was you need to be heard seeing here n do I have a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 2447 I'd like to make a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 244 47 second I'll second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yesan yes action on ordinance 2447 I'd like to Mo uh make a I'd like to move to adopt ordinance 2447 published according to law second second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes yes ordinance passes ordinance 2448 in ordinance amending chapter 2 Administration subsection 2- 6.11 multiple dwelling emergency board repealed and chapter 7 Property Maintenance and housing subsection 7.4 multiple dwelling security funds repealed and fund returned of the revised General ordinances of the township of ocean 1965 do I have a motion to open public hearing on ordinance 2448 i' like to make a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 2448 second I will second roll call fer yes Terry yes nean yes can some please open p uh anyone wishing to be he on ordinance 2448 please step up to the microphone state name and address Senor n do I have a motion to close public hearing on ordinance 2448 I'd like to make a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 2448 second I'll second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes nean yes action on ordinance 2448 like to move to adopt ordinance 2448 and publish according to law second I'll second roll call fish yes Terry yes nean yes ordinance 2449 an ordinance authorizing sale of a deed of easement to the New Jersey Department of Transportation pursuant to the local lands and buildings law njsa 4A col 12-13 B1 block 152 lot 6 and 7 bound Road can someone please open the public hearing on ordinance 2449 i' like to make a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 2449 second I will second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes L yes anyone wishing to be heard on ordinance 2449 seeing here none do I have a motion to close public hearing on ordinance 2449 i' like to make a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 2449 second I will second roll call fer yes Terry yesan yes action on ordinance 2449 i' would like to move to adopt ordinance 2449 and publish according to law second all second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes yes yes ordinance 2449 passes ordinance 2450 an ordinance authorizing the acceptance of a gift of real property block 35 lot 3 West Park Avenue can someone please open the public hearing on ordinance 2450 I'd like to make a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 2450 second I'll second roll call fer yes Terry yes up County yes anyone wishing to be heard on ordinance 2450 please step up to the microphone state name and address uh thank you Jim Bay David Street this property I walked it about a week ago it is it's a real mess it has two drainage ditches that you're going to have to maintain they feed into very impaired drainage ditches that you don't own and you can't maintain them because they're somebody else's property it's just really bad property hold the thought just because it's free do you really want this property thank you Jim anyone wishing to be heard on ordinance 2450 Senor none do I have a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 2450 like to make a motion to close the public hearing on ordinance 2450 second I'll second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes nean yes action on ordinance 2450 I'd like to move to adopt ordinance 2450 and publish according to law second I'll second Roll Call Fisher yes Terry yes yes ordinance 2450 passes anyone wishing to be heard on anything Germaine to the township of ocean please step up to the microphone state your name and address for the record public hearing time yes come on up hi microphone yes my my situation is very name and address oh I'm sorry that's okay uh Shea Ellen pner and it's a 11 Chris Place Ocean okay um it it's very simple um I would like to know why can't we have uh extra day for garage sales you only have one and that's in the fall previously um you mean a townwide one yeah okay and I you know a PO and a uh you know a one I mean we we can consider itos proba never just been done yeah it's never thought of it and not only that I usually throw everything out and the other thing is that make it in the past two years years it either rained with no rain date or it was a Jewish holiday of two days and that was gone so to be mindful okay of the days you know that you're making it Dave you got that or Jesse one of you thank you okay yeah Jesse that's you I've got it yes we'll definitely make that recommendation that we do too this year okay and we'll watch the holidays y thank you for that suggestion see we get suggestions this is great anyone else wishing to be heard seeing here none do I have a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn second a second fish sure yes Terry yesy yes meeting adjourned have a nice weekend see you in a couple weeks